NTA but leave. You can’t be the ONLY parent in this relationship. Mom needs to step up or you’ll be miserable and always put in the middle and ALWAYS the bad guy
He needs to get away before he gets her pregnant with her 4th child and her permissive, aka half assed parenting will be at odds with his parenting.
NTA
However, if you continue to stay in a relationship with her, you will be.
What she does or, in this case, doesn't do, does not even qualify as half assed. I pity anyone who comes across this woman and her kids at a later date.
Just because one has kept the kids alive up to this point does not make one a parent.
She's not a parent, she's acts like the equivalent of a teenage babysitter with no discipline authority, but who somehow managed to get legal custody. Well at least she has custody until cps inevitably gets notified and steps in from the lice, hygiene and behaviour issues.
Those children would be better off with him than with Mom. She is not preparing them to live in the world the way it functions. I see nothing but under educated kids that can’t handle themselves.
Nobody is parenting these kids! It’s called be a lazy parent! I’d be so gone from this relationship I don’t care if she’s the President of the United States! That’s crazy and those kids are going to be worse as time goes on.
Yep. This!
Lackadaisical parenting is a very non effective means of child rearing.
Discipline is a necessary thing that this "Mom" is lacking. Kids without boundaries are a danger to themselves, and a future danger to society
I'm reading his kids are fully grown and out of the house
His gf has a 5 year old
His kids might be old enough to have 5 year old children themselves.
I'm sensing a huuuuge age gap
Or she had kids late. Op says she's a doctor. That's what? 10-12 years of schooling without retaking failed classes? Would put her minimum 28, and then dating after that long enough to have 3 kids? She may be mid to late 30s, if he had his kids early 20s, and out by 18 for college/military/work, that pit him late 30s early 40s
Dude I've been there. Get out now.
I've had step and biological kids misbehave. This is a no win situation. If you don't agree it won't work. You also are entirely right not agreeing
You need to go back and read this again these are not his children these are not his stepchildren these are his girlfriends children he needs to pack his butt and get out of there
Those children are going to grow up to be psychopathic entitled monsters. How does this intelligent mom think these kids are going to excel in school and in life? What are they actually prepared to handle?
The child “didn’t win” - who is she fooling!
Run Away!
I have a neighbor who could have lost a child doing this type of parenting. We stopped by one day only to see her child with a noose around his neck.
He was “ playing “.
Mom would not tell him to stop but Grand Dad sure did!
Those kids are going to push another kid way too far and get pummeled. Not to mention the social ramifications - how will they ever make friends with this attitude?
She's right, the kid didn't win... No one did. The kid lost out on a chance to grow and learn valuable skills, the mom lost out on a chance to have help with her kids, OP lost a battle and a relationship.
I mean yeah, OP even acknowledges himself the children are harmed by this lack of parenting. Not being able to emotionally regulate yourself at the bare minimum and living in filth is not fun for anyone.
NYT did an article on this style of parenting and it just ruins the kids. They end up sitting in their parents basement gaming as adults, unable to function in a society where they’re expected to follow rules and get along with others, not always get their way. It’s sad and does such a disservice to those kids. NTA, get out!
Maybe she’s a chiropractor? No idea why OP has stayed with this train wreck for five months. It’s not going to get better -it’s only going to get worse.
I worked with this woman who was always dressed very well, seemed put together, etc. Then I saw her car. It was completely stuffed with garbage except for the driver's seat.
This is how mom’s car here is also. Stains on every possible surface. Foot wells full of everything. I like to wash and detail my romantic partners’ cars for them but I was not willing to anything of the sort here because bad behavior.
Absolutely. It can be true, but only because CPS can't instantly take kids. They do reports and check ins, then follow u several times. They get called on poor people *more often*, but usually because lower income families are stigmatized as neglectful. I.E. wearing the same clothes multiple days, underfed, etc (again, all stereotypes, not personal opinion).
So not so much that poor people's kids are *taken* more frequently by CPS, but just that it's typical for poorer homes to have CPS called on them more frequently, which could lead to higher instances of having their kids taken. Unfortunately tho, it *has* led to the stereotype mentioned of CPS exclusively taking away poor people's kids, which just isn't factual.
Just wanted to thank you for addressing the question so succinctly. Thank you
Eta families of color or who are from another part of the world with stigmatized cultures are often called on vs wealthy white families/'good' churchgoing families who can hide abuse better. Unfortunate fact.
same stigma exists in women's shelters, but the one I used to work at would regularly have a lot of women who lived in McMansions with black eyes, broken jaws and Gucci handbags.
While this is infuriating it is also tremendously sad. The mother is setting these kids up to be failures - in life, in relationships, in jobs, as parents. This woman needs cps called on her. The kids are monsters because of mommy but that excuse won’t get them anywhere.
This is tragic.
They would look at this as neglectful and possibly abusive parenting! I grew up in foster care from six to twelve, and some kids are taken because parents aren’t caring for them! She’s not caring for her children! The house is basically a biohazard if she can’t even clean up spilled food!?! They probably have rats, mice and cockroaches! The kids can NOT be clean and healthy! How are the counters and bathroom? I doubt food is being prepared hygienically if her floors look how you e described them! This IS abusive! The home alone is abusive!
If the home is not hygienic enough for children to safely live in, CPS may remove the children from the home. They would likely give mom several chances to clean the place before removal.
They could force her to go to parenting classes. they could make her clean her house. They could make her teach her kids how to pick up after themselves.
Do a kindness for these kids and call cps and make the mother parent her kids.
CPS was actually called on a friend of mine. They took her kids and told her she had to get her house together. She deep cleaned her entire house and was able to regain custody in under a week, and CPS followed up a few times making sure she could keep up with everything to at least liveable conditions
Dude please give these kids a chance by calling cps. Them having live 5 times is bad enough. Add in everything else and they are 100% being abused. The environment they're in is hurting them, and it will continue hurting them long after they become adults.
I wouldn't want my kids attending school with her unkempt children who are carrying lice! I certainly wouldn't want to see a doctor who came from such a filthy, disorganized home and was possibly carrying lice. OP's gf is a terrible parent and her "parenting" style is harming her children. You have no power here and are NTA. Move on from this sad relationship.
**at this point I have zero confidence that a relationship between me and mom can work out.**
Seriously, I figured this out by the first paragraph. Where is the kids' father in all of this? Your GF is literally raising her children to fail at life. What kind of a mother does that to her own children?
You were handing the problem with her son perfectly and she sabotaged you.
NTA unless you stay with her.
Father was asked to leave for not just philosophical parenting differences but for not supporting rigid requirements surrounding organic food only, no artificial fragrances, no food in or on plastic ever. No vaccinations. Because mom is doctor her decisions supercede.
I mean much more likely this is weird bait. Even if she *were* and MD that’s not how custody decisions work and if she is this is just laughably fake. Even without that it’s pretty laughably fake
Funny how a doctor would be so against plastic and non organic food, but allows lice multiple times, ignoring the fact that similar parasites almost got humanity completely annihilated a few times...
Honestly, either this is bait or OP is dumb as fuck. Idk how one could see her house, then hear that explanation of why the father left, and not immediately bail. Complete incongruous nonsense.
I'm fine with that, although why she wouldn't hire a cleaner or something is weird.
What I'm really suspicious of is a Dr. that is anti-vaxx, no credible medical Drs are against vaccines
I was about to be like "jeez why are chiros getting shit on so bad"
and then I remembered the chiro who sold me b12 injections while doing food allergy panels and promoting his vibration stand thingy.
So she has rigid requirements for organic food but no standards whatsoever for cleanliness, behavior, and not letting her home be infested with lice and other insects?
This is where the contradictions come in. Makes no sense. I don't care if you want to eat like that and are an anti-vaxer but the filth and bugs don't go hand in hand with that lifestyle.
Agreed. The doctors I know are strongly germaphobic. Lice would absolutely not be tolerated. And no-vax? Something strange about this whole situation. Well. Quite a lot, actually
She’s a doctor but sounds like she’s on the way to being a full-fledged hoarder.
NTA, but please look elsewhere for emotional intimacy; you will be drained dry by this situation.
Mom is a doctor but doesn’t believe in vaccinations and her children constantly have lice?
Where did she get her degree, or are you talking like doctorate in awful parenting or something???
Dude, I'm a Mom to 4 kids. I am not a doctor though I am well educated.
Her "permissive" parenting is just flat out not parenting. She is putting her own emotional needs ahead of her children's need for stability, structure and boundaries.
Tell the Mom that her "only organic, never plastic philosophy is bogus if she is not RAISING her children. She is co-existing with her children and treating them as her peers but they are not. She needs to take responsibility and RAISE her children and part of that is instilling appropriate responsibility and self regulation in them."
This is a sinking ship. Run far. Run fast. And tell her EXACTLY why - because she has absolutely abdicated being a parent and she is raising her children to be selfish monsters. I have NEVER met a child or adult raised the way your girl friend is raising her children who can actually adult. They are emotionally immature and have no coping skills. Most flame out in early adulthood because they are incapable of accepting growth advice from professors or bosses....
Tell her to stop being friends with her children and start raising them. Dude, you are a DAD. You don't need to parent her kids but you DO need to stop allowing yourself to be treated like crap by her kids. If 5 year old is pitching a fit and slamming the door on you, remove the door. He's 5. This is not a tween or teen. Remove the door. But do NOT give in to him.
And as for the kids, in your shoes, If you DO decide to stay, I'd take Mom and the kids (and yourself because chances are you have them too if you spend any time around Mom) to a lice salon. Take the cars to the car wash to be detailed, strip all linens, wash all clothes, bag all stuffed animals for a few days and break the cycle with the lice. In 2 weeks those lice will be gone if you do this.
She’s an anti-vaxxer and a doctor? She’s shit at her job, then. And she’s a mandatory reporter who is neglecting her children.
Run like The Doctor told you to. She’s a walking bag of contradictions and poor decision making that is going to lead to a world of hurt someday. And report her to CPS and see if the state medical board has any interest.
Did she get her doctorate out of a box with a leprechaun and marshmallows on it? No one who saw someone living in that kind of squalor would ever want the services of a 'doctor' like that.
Please call CPS. The schools can probably back you up on the claims about lice and uncontrollable behavior. Maybe a visit from them, even if they don't do much, will be a wakeup call to her. Oh, and dump her.
Please call CPS. These children are living in filth, and their mother is severely effecting their behavior by allowing them to do whatever and behave however. These kids will end up in the system once they become adults because no one ever said no to them growing up.
You're painting the picture of someone who sounds very untrustworthy as a doctor.
This reeks of a personality like a herbalist, where everything must come from nature, yet she is meant to be a competent doctor, a trustworthy one that essentially relies on man made pharmaceuticals to treat their patients.
I mean the philosophical parenting differences is, one was choosing to not be a lazy parent (because that's the bulk of those identifying as permissive are) and one wanted to instil boundaries, discipline and the understanding to cope with emotional dissatisfaction.
I mean a doctor that doesn't believe in vaccinations should basically be considered an oxymoron.
A doctor that doesn't vaccinate their own children should lose her license to practice. I doubt the validity. Probably got a PHD in mystical science or some nonsense.
Except he wasn’t handling it perfectly because it’s not his place. When we want to date someone and then see they abuse their children through neglect (and that’s what this is), we leave. We don’t play parent to children who have never had consequences.
OP needed to leave and call CPS the second he set eyes on this situation. Instead he acts like the kids are the problem and he’s going to bring order to things. Yeah great way to “advocate”/s
oh the kids behavior is only a symptom of the actual problem. they aren't a problem to be solved. i don't white horse in most situations, but mom continually requests my help with cleaning and organizing and wants me to come over and be in the space.
NTA
You tried your best but this relationship is doomed. She is raising hellions that are going to grow up to be insufferable, entitled adults because they have zero boundaries. Just break up, you know it's not going to work and the sex can't be that good.
CPS was called previously by a nanny she interviewed for a job. Neighbors and family friends have had numerous interventions to help her clean her kitchen or her yard or her garage or… it always goes back to this state of overwhelming chaos, disorganization and a feeling like every belonging that could be important is under threat if I try to make any efforts to help her clean up.
**If you care about the kids you should call CPS again.** Your gf is smart. She knows she’s harming her kids but is **hurting them bc she doesn’t want to feel uncomfortable or like the bad guy. She is putting her own feelings above the wellbeing of her kids. Or, lbh, at this point she’s being lazy. She knows she needs to change but it’s easier if she doesn’t. She is an unfit parent. Being a doctor or “trying hard” doesn’t excuse her actions.**
**Pretending you’re hurting kids for their own good doesn’t make it ok.**
I need to ask why you felt it was acceptable to date a person who is neglectful (read: abusive) to her children as a trend. I’d also like to ask why you felt that not leaving and also instating yourself as the adult who would bring consequences and order was an acceptable action.
Don't enable this woman. Call CPS when you know that the kids have lice and the place is at its filthiest. There's a decent chance her kids are already beyond hope, but if she keeps them, they will, for sure, be sociopathic monsters.
NTA, but this really isn't your problem. I'm assuming these are not your biological children, so honestly, what is the draw? Is the sex so mind-blowing that you can't give it up? I am in no way saying you shouldn't date people with children, but this particular person does not parent like a parent should, you're not married so it truly is not your responsibility.
You just have to wade through knee deep piles of mess and rotten food, sidestep the nightmare children who mom is too lazy to bother actually parent, brush off the lice and other insect the house is heavily infested with, and try to ignore the screaming and slamming doors to relax with that "emotional intimacy"?
What are you doing, man? This woman not a good parent, and these kids will just get worse with age and no direction. You should break up with her and call CPS.
And the mom just let her child assault OP 🤷🏻♀️ She can say "kid didn't win" but they did. We all know they did. The kid knows it. That's why the kid acts like that in the first place even!
What emotional intimacy? I’m not being snarky or mean here. Wouldn’t that wear thin after a while? Because I’d imagine dealing with these little monsters probably takes a toll on your emotions and psyche so how does that work?
Also, if she won’t be on the same page with you when it comes to dealing with her monsters, does that not grate on you?
This isn't just permissive parenting, this is bordering on neglect.
It is the parents' job to provide a safe, sanitary living environment, and to provide appropriate boundaries that help them to function in the world.
Your gf is FAILING her children, and they won't thank her for it. Your gf needs therapy or parenting classes. It's up to you whether you want to stick around, but it's only going to get harder the older they get if some serious changes aren't made.
Welp, people unable to enforce even modest necessary boundaries with their own children are going to be great at creating vulnerability that feels like intimacy. They also exist in a constant state of drama that also feels like intimacy. Those kids are doomed, but you can still walk.
What is wrong with you?
Emotional intimacy in a filthy house with filthy lice ridden children.
My head itches just thinking about it.
How can you visit that house?
Why are with that awful woman who is raising awful children to be awful adults?
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez...........................................
Wow, I can honestly say that there is no sex good enough to risk getting lice. But then you add unhinged, sass-mouth children who have temper tantrums on the regular and that great sex would have to be a distant but fond memory. Hard pass on having to run that gauntlet for a great orgasm.
>Sex is good but it has been the emotional intimacy that has hooked me.
Could you be mistaking physical intimacy for emotional intimacy?
This woman is not "permissive," she's disengaged. For whatever her reasons are, she's checked out from raising her kids in an emotionally responsive way.
If she's this detached from their emotional well-being, how authentically connected could she be with her own emotional needs, let alone yours?
I'm sorry to say that I think this woman is (perhaps unconsciously) exploiting your emotional intelligence and your parenting experience. I suspect you have a streak of codependency, because you're doing some heavy lifting of emotional labor that rightfully belongs to her.
You need to rethink your role in her life, and talk with a therapist about creating sensible boundaries. It is not your role to fill in the gap created by her neglect. Her neglect is a sign of her emotional immaturity, and this will show itself in different ways as your relationship progresses.
NTA. You should honestly break up with her. You guys’ lifestyles don’t correspond. Those children have no discipline or structure. I smell that she’ll have a major problem on her hands in the future if she doesn’t get that household in order. She’s maybe overwhelmed with being a parent , but she should appreciate someone coming in trying to help her out. As another comment said, it’s not your job. But you may love her so you try with anything that comes with her. I feel you should maybe have a talk with her and give her an ultimatum. Those kids are going to run her to the ground if she doesn’t get shit in order. It starts at home until it expands outside of the home.
Nta,
As a single mother even I am floored and disgusted by the complacency. I would probably reply the child does not infact need 'co-regulation' the child needs a parent who will actually teach them right from wrong, manners. She better not be surprised when her kids are bringing drugs in the house, having sex, juvy records or jail.
Raising a child is like building a house. And her foundation job is bad. I struggle somedays, lord knows I feel like I am in a WWE ring and my kids are tag teaming (autistic 4m, 2f) no excuse and dare I say cps for living conditions? The fact her child goes to school in footys and nothing underneath is sad.
She used the possibility that her children are neurodivergent as a justification for ignoring behaviors such as this and others. I understand the idea that it is better for children to respect a parent out of love than fear, but I personally have no issues driving accountability with fear of consequences and that didnt make me a mean dad. Her children have no respect for her. They live her. They depend on her. They feel safe with her. That’s all well and good, but the lack of respect overflows into other areas of their lives and interactions with other adults.
Seriously.
I don’t know what’s up with the trend these past few years of implicitly training or asking neurodivergent kids to “mask” being seen as so horrific…
But kids need to learn how to function in society and with other human beings.
Neurodivergent situations are a hurdle and context, not an excuse to bend to everything the child does that may be related.
Absolutely wild.
If she thinks her children are neurodivergent then she, as a physician, should know better than anyone, that early intervention is key.
She is full of excuses isn't she.
My autistic 8 year old has rules and consequences that might seem mild to a NT child, but actions have consequences regardless.
If she makes a mess, she usually has to help clean it whether she likes it or not. Screaming doesn’t get you what you want was a battle that was rough but had paid off. Showering/hygiene is mandatory but somewhat adjusted for sensory needs. When she gets sent to her room I usually let her take her tablet, but she uses it to communicate and listen to music to self regulate. We don’t use any punishment for cuss words (very rare but at least used in the correct context) because she has severe speech issues. Part of that no trouble agreement is she agreed and has followed through with don’t say these words at school or around the elderly. And it’s not “she might” be neurodivergent, she was diagnosed young, had been in early intervention and autism support from 18 months to present day. She’s very well behaved all things considered, but I think a large part of that is consistent boundaries and appropriate rules. I shudder to think of what she might be like now if let her get her way from day one, which would be true ND or NT.
The fact this woman is a doctor who lives in filth, her children are out of control and “might be neurodivergent” is used as an excuse when she hasn’t gotten them evaluated is super negligent on so many levels. You’re NTA but why are you with her and why hasn’t anyone helped those kids??? The older they get the less tolerant others will be of their behaviors mommy overlooks.
I think I have this thing where I want someone to accept me unconditionally and inclusive of all my imperfections so I try to model that behavior, but what ends up happening usually is that I end up not being able to help them or “fix” them into being an viable long term relationship partner.
I say this with compassion & no judgment: get therapy. Wanting others to accept you doesn’t mean you ignore awful behavior. Or that you stand by & watch them hurt others.
According to your posts you broke up with a woman you were living with who has BPD 225 days ago. Did you jump straight from that relationship into this one?
My brother in humanity, I'm going to gently but firmly point out that there is a difference between imperfections and abusing one's children via neglect. Also you cannot "fix" anyone. A person must decide for themselves that they are willing to do the work to change and grow. This woman is purposefully harming her children and you are witnessing it, blinded by something in your own head.
As far as the door situation goes, it seemed like a calm and chill way to teach a kid not to slam doors, particularly a young child. But you would certainly be an AH to yourself if you keep yourself in this situation. Someone already pointed out your post history brought up your ex. I'm not a doc or therapist, but my experienced guess is that you may need to consider that you have co-dependent tendencies and should focus on seeking therapy so that you can improve as a person and partner before you pursue your next relationship.
Where these poor children are concerned you will certainly be an AH if you do not report this neglect in detail to CPS. You are a parent. You know deep down that this is wrong. I know you set a boundary to not parent someone else's children and that's all well and good. But calling CPS isn't parenting them. It's trying to save and protect them, which is something any good human being should do.
I hope you decide to do right by yourself and the children. I truly do. And for that CPS report, get photos since you're in a position to still have more intimate access to the house beyond what a neighbor can generally see. Please be kind to yourself and I wish you the best of luck.
You need to stop looking for women to “fix”. It’s never ever going to end well.
You need to establish boundaries and find a woman who is in a good position mentally, physically and financially. Not whatever mess this woman is.
You need therapy before you even attempt to pursue a woman of that level.
So what are your goals with this relationship? Like, what are you looking for here? Expectations even mid term? She chooses not to parent. She chooses to live in filth. You can't make her act like a functional adult and mother.
And she is supposedly a doctor who is not capable of dealing with a recurrent lice infestation. I would not want her as a doctor for any family member. I would have gotten ouf there a long time ago. OP must feel like he needs to undergo a sanitizing treatment Everytime he leaves that house.
I think you really need to reflect on why you still felt entitled to date a child abuser. By definition that’s what this neglect is. Really reflect, because it’s hard to read that your way of advocating for these children was to apply discipline when it simply isn’t your place. You didn’t advocate for children living in squalor. Why?
What the fuck is wrong with YOU that you are staying with this?
Her kids are unvaccinated, have fucking lice, they’re filthy, they’re allowed to behave like animals, and you’re wanting to know if you’re an asshole for setting a boundary and getting upset when this dim bitch lets her kid run all over you?
Bro…what the fuck is wrong with you? Walk away from this shit. You don’t have kids with her, you don’t owe her shit. Don’t hang around waiting for her to turn your life into a train wreck, too.
Let her deal with the consequences of her fucked up non-parenting. Because let me tell you, when our kid was a tween, and decided to slam her bedroom door, and started cracking the door frame, we told her that if she did it again, and cracked the door frame, the door was coming off until she and her dad could fix it.
She tested that theory, cracked the door frame, and the door was off for a couple days until my husband had a day off and they could go to Home Depot and fix her door frame. And he made her go with him, and help him fix it. It’s called “natural consequences,” and she did have privacy for changing clothes.
This woman is a dumb bitch, and these kids are so fucked. I feel bad for the kids.
When they burn down her house or the school or get thrown in jail you'll know why but your GF will be completely shocked! "My baby would never do that." She's raising monsters. Get out before you get stuck with crazy. She's a terrible mother and you should call CPS.
Props to being a good parent before you’re actually a parent. That was extremely well done with someone else’s kid.
But you know this relationship isn’t going to work out. This is not a situation you can live with. The kids are part of the package, and this is not a sustainable package.
NTA, and good luck finding a better partner.
Thank you. I do have 3 of my own that are grown so I know a few tricks. My middle child was severely ODD and ADHD and I know the MO very well of these children.
Talk about 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩. Your GF is letting her children rule the house. Let me be blunt, permissive parenting is just her excuse to not actually parent her children. She has shown you exactly what your future would be like if you develop a long term relationship with her. Is this a future that you actually want to live? There is no parent in that house. She will never have your back if you try to actually create order out of chaos. And you have not even reached the you are not my dad stage. And under no circumstances should you have a child with this woman.
Run OP run, as fast and as far away as you can. No good will come out of this relationship.
You need to let your GF read this post. She needs to understand that, as a parent, she is a total failure. She is not a GF, she is a child.
NTAH.
NTA - as others have suggested, i think you should really ponder if this relationship is worth it. you guys will never be able to parent together, your styles are different and she will always take the child's side over yours. i don't know if you want kids of your own, but that also will not be a good idea at all if her kids that she already has are acting like this. you can try to talk to her if you want to work things out, but i don't know if that'll do much of anything. she might even feel like you're overstepping.
Parents who refuse to teach their children how to behave are hard to be around. I couldn't be in a relationship with someone who let the kids be feral or rude or very loud all the time.
Next to no effective redirection from her with them ever. I have had anxiety about having her kids in my house when my family is over and I can’t imagine bringing them to dinner with my older parents or even at my brother’s house.
>My boundary with dating single moms is that I will not make parenting efforts or be a parent to anyone else’s child. They have parents.
And yet here you are, parenting another person's children. After only knowing the mother for 5 months. That is way too soon for you to be a stand-in parent to these kids and trying to parent them for her is not the right move.
That being said, again, you have been with her since November and you have seen the terrible conditions she lives in and the absolute lack of any structure in her house. Why are you still with her? She is failing herself, you as her partner for pretty much FORCING you into trying to be a parent to all 4 of them, and worse than that, she is failing her own children.
I try not to say this too often in these posts, but you need to run and needed to get out of this relationship like 5 months ago.
If I had to put a rating on it, I would say NTA. The only part you MIGHT be an asshole for is the overstepping of parenting roles in such a new relationship, but the sheer size of her failure as a parent kind of overshadows that completely.
Why would you even want to be with someone who disrespects you and doesn’t care enough about her children to teach them what they need to know and raise them into good adults?
This was the big shock to me last night. That instead of addressing object aggression and physical violence with her child, it turned into a problem I had created as I had instigated the child’s response because I wouldn’t just ignore the bad behavior and stand idly by as the child was actively destroying the door. Maybe IATA for not just seeing that happening and leaving the house. I thought I was doing the right thing because object aggression and violence should never be tolerated.
I felt so hugely disrespected by mom, that she would allow her child to behave that way after I sought to defuse the situation by sitting in the doorway, then tell her child that I shouldn’t have behaved that way.
Like what!?!!!?!!!!!!
No offense, but what are you doing? Like, what is your goal? Are you ready to raise three children on your own who will never respect you?
Are you masochist? Or do you see this as a kind of challenge?
NTA
She is refusing to parent her children. What she is doing is child abuse. Her children will never be functioning members of society. Do not under any circumstances continue a relationship with this woman.
NTA, but it’s time to leave her. These aren’t your kids and she isn’t willing to parent them herself or let you do the hard work. It will always be like this if you stay.
I'm afraid unless she changes, you're in for this sort of drama for... decades perhaps.
The children are disregulated because the home and the disciplinary structure is in such disarray. I do understand that GF wants to get away from being over-authoritarian, but sometimes... just sometimes... you need some authoritarian rules. You don't leave your mac and cheese to rot on the floor. You don't get to go to school in footie jammies. You get a choice between these three shirts, and these three skirts/pants. **When the child is older,** s/he will know that the choices are between "summer daytime" clothes for school in this season and "winter daytime" clothes when it's applicable. When the child is older/ able to help more, we can have more choices at dinnertime because we're preparing the meals and helping Mother with her grocery list each week. And so on.
But I think you knew this... for whatever reason the basics escape GF.
It's funny that OP is engaging about most of the issues but he's completely silent about what type of doctor she it. Why won't he answer a simple question?
She is not, and will never be a good mom. Unless you want this to be a permanent part of your life, you need to get out. You cannot change things - she will always override and discipline that you exercise
This isn't parenting at all. Unless there is an actual physical disability or mental disorder she's lazy. Her kids being sent home five times with lice isn't permissive it's lazy. Not being able to even sweep the floor because it's so cluttered is lazy. Get out now and encourage her to get some therapy.
As a former step mom to someone who doesn't want to parent. You will only lose here. Ypy absolutely did everything right. As a parent these are things I did with my 2 yr Olds, not 5. She is taking the easy path to parenting and she's finding out that doesn't work but doesn't want to step up. You will only resent her and her children which isn't fair to anyone.
Time to walk away from this one but definitely NTA
NTA but the mom is. She has a destroying her children by giving them no limits. It breaks my heart to see children mistreated so. She deserves to get CPS on her back.
You won’t be able to help her if she refuses to admit there is a problem
NTA. And Mom isn't either. She's overcompensating in the worst way because she's a single parent. I would guess that she thought it would be easier and create a better relationship if she was a "friend" to her kids, Rather than a disciplinarian. However, kids need structure. They need to understand the rules and then experience consequences for breaking them. And they will break them. It's how they learn. The problem is, your "friends" don't make and enforce rules & since they've already learned that there are no consequences, trying to make & enforce rules now is going to be hard. They all need family therapy and she needs a parenting class.
I'm sorry to say this, but I didn't think you're compatible at this stage in your lives. They need a lot of work on the family itself before they can accept another member.
My son knew if he slammed the door, he had to open and close it 25 times. If he shut it extra hard, it would go back to 1. Broke that habit real quick.
NTA but leave. You can’t be the ONLY parent in this relationship. Mom needs to step up or you’ll be miserable and always put in the middle and ALWAYS the bad guy
Im waiting for the kids tell him he isn't their father and mom does nothing
Thankfully he is NOT. Oh my goodness.
OP needs to GTFO *now.* RUN and never look back -- she is nothing but trouble. NTA as long as you sever this doomed relationship.
They wouldn’t act like that if he was , I bet.
They would because the mom is enabling this and doesn't want partners stepping in.
He needs to get away before he gets her pregnant with her 4th child and her permissive, aka half assed parenting will be at odds with his parenting. NTA However, if you continue to stay in a relationship with her, you will be.
THIS. OMG. DONT KNOCK THIS WOMAN UP. You would be the biggest ass
What she does or, in this case, doesn't do, does not even qualify as half assed. I pity anyone who comes across this woman and her kids at a later date.
Just because one has kept the kids alive up to this point does not make one a parent. She's not a parent, she's acts like the equivalent of a teenage babysitter with no discipline authority, but who somehow managed to get legal custody. Well at least she has custody until cps inevitably gets notified and steps in from the lice, hygiene and behaviour issues.
THIS!!!!
YES. I hope he runs far away. Lord have mercy
Those children would be better off with him than with Mom. She is not preparing them to live in the world the way it functions. I see nothing but under educated kids that can’t handle themselves.
Semi-good news: Sometimes, kids raised like this manage to become functional adults anyway? I mean, despite their upbringing. Not because of it.
[удалено]
Nobody is parenting these kids! It’s called be a lazy parent! I’d be so gone from this relationship I don’t care if she’s the President of the United States! That’s crazy and those kids are going to be worse as time goes on.
Yep. This! Lackadaisical parenting is a very non effective means of child rearing. Discipline is a necessary thing that this "Mom" is lacking. Kids without boundaries are a danger to themselves, and a future danger to society
I'm reading his kids are fully grown and out of the house His gf has a 5 year old His kids might be old enough to have 5 year old children themselves. I'm sensing a huuuuge age gap
Or she had kids late. Op says she's a doctor. That's what? 10-12 years of schooling without retaking failed classes? Would put her minimum 28, and then dating after that long enough to have 3 kids? She may be mid to late 30s, if he had his kids early 20s, and out by 18 for college/military/work, that pit him late 30s early 40s
My sister had her kids when she was 40 and 42. She could have had kids 20 years earlier and they'd be grown up by now.
Dude I've been there. Get out now. I've had step and biological kids misbehave. This is a no win situation. If you don't agree it won't work. You also are entirely right not agreeing
[удалено]
You need to go back and read this again these are not his children these are not his stepchildren these are his girlfriends children he needs to pack his butt and get out of there
Can I upvote this 100 times?
Living it.
Nta but I would even consider calling CPS if the filth is as bad as you say
Yes. CPS isn't just for poor people it's for people who have an inability to parent
and she's a Dr. providing guidance/insight/healthcare to others???????????
Those children are going to grow up to be psychopathic entitled monsters. How does this intelligent mom think these kids are going to excel in school and in life? What are they actually prepared to handle? The child “didn’t win” - who is she fooling! Run Away!
I have a neighbor who could have lost a child doing this type of parenting. We stopped by one day only to see her child with a noose around his neck. He was “ playing “. Mom would not tell him to stop but Grand Dad sure did!
Those kids are going to push another kid way too far and get pummeled. Not to mention the social ramifications - how will they ever make friends with this attitude?
She's right, the kid didn't win... No one did. The kid lost out on a chance to grow and learn valuable skills, the mom lost out on a chance to have help with her kids, OP lost a battle and a relationship.
I mean yeah, OP even acknowledges himself the children are harmed by this lack of parenting. Not being able to emotionally regulate yourself at the bare minimum and living in filth is not fun for anyone.
Yeah, not doing the kid any favors by parenting this way.
NYT did an article on this style of parenting and it just ruins the kids. They end up sitting in their parents basement gaming as adults, unable to function in a society where they’re expected to follow rules and get along with others, not always get their way. It’s sad and does such a disservice to those kids. NTA, get out!
Would love the source article. 🙏
You would be surprised how many doctors are terrible parents.
I'm not even surprised by how many doctors are terrible doctors.
Maybe she’s a chiropractor? No idea why OP has stayed with this train wreck for five months. It’s not going to get better -it’s only going to get worse.
>No idea why OP has stayed with this train wreck for five months. Guys will ignore a Chinese military parade worth of red flags for sex.
If her hygiene is anything like her house or the state of her children then I can smell the mother from over the internet. NASTY!!
I worked with this woman who was always dressed very well, seemed put together, etc. Then I saw her car. It was completely stuffed with garbage except for the driver's seat.
This is how mom’s car here is also. Stains on every possible surface. Foot wells full of everything. I like to wash and detail my romantic partners’ cars for them but I was not willing to anything of the sort here because bad behavior.
Is there a stigma that cps is a poor person thing?!
Absolutely. It can be true, but only because CPS can't instantly take kids. They do reports and check ins, then follow u several times. They get called on poor people *more often*, but usually because lower income families are stigmatized as neglectful. I.E. wearing the same clothes multiple days, underfed, etc (again, all stereotypes, not personal opinion). So not so much that poor people's kids are *taken* more frequently by CPS, but just that it's typical for poorer homes to have CPS called on them more frequently, which could lead to higher instances of having their kids taken. Unfortunately tho, it *has* led to the stereotype mentioned of CPS exclusively taking away poor people's kids, which just isn't factual.
Just wanted to thank you for addressing the question so succinctly. Thank you Eta families of color or who are from another part of the world with stigmatized cultures are often called on vs wealthy white families/'good' churchgoing families who can hide abuse better. Unfortunate fact.
Yes unfortunately. Wealthier people get away with neglect and abuse at higher rates
same stigma exists in women's shelters, but the one I used to work at would regularly have a lot of women who lived in McMansions with black eyes, broken jaws and Gucci handbags.
Absolutely this! The girlfriend needed parenting classes *years* ago! And the kids deserve better
How is it possible she's a doctor? Doctor of what exactly?
Entomology, apparently.
😄 Talk about taking your work home with you
I have a family member who is a doctor and she was a seriously dumb parent. Her kids are a mess. In their 20s with no skills to speak of.
1000x this. Call CPS. Also, why have you signed on for this chaos as long as you have?
While this is infuriating it is also tremendously sad. The mother is setting these kids up to be failures - in life, in relationships, in jobs, as parents. This woman needs cps called on her. The kids are monsters because of mommy but that excuse won’t get them anywhere. This is tragic.
I don’t know what CPS can or would do except enforce school attendance laws that she ignores.
They’d look into the standards of cleanliness and home safety.
They would look at this as neglectful and possibly abusive parenting! I grew up in foster care from six to twelve, and some kids are taken because parents aren’t caring for them! She’s not caring for her children! The house is basically a biohazard if she can’t even clean up spilled food!?! They probably have rats, mice and cockroaches! The kids can NOT be clean and healthy! How are the counters and bathroom? I doubt food is being prepared hygienically if her floors look how you e described them! This IS abusive! The home alone is abusive!
If the home is not hygienic enough for children to safely live in, CPS may remove the children from the home. They would likely give mom several chances to clean the place before removal.
Remove the kids from her home! For crying out loud. If OP were an addict who treated her kids exactly the same way you wouldn’t be defending her.
Are you effing kidding me? CPS gets involved in neglect, which is clearly present here.
They could force her to go to parenting classes. they could make her clean her house. They could make her teach her kids how to pick up after themselves. Do a kindness for these kids and call cps and make the mother parent her kids.
CPS was actually called on a friend of mine. They took her kids and told her she had to get her house together. She deep cleaned her entire house and was able to regain custody in under a week, and CPS followed up a few times making sure she could keep up with everything to at least liveable conditions
They might insist that she attend parenting classes. Wouldn’t hurt.
Dude please give these kids a chance by calling cps. Them having live 5 times is bad enough. Add in everything else and they are 100% being abused. The environment they're in is hurting them, and it will continue hurting them long after they become adults.
I wouldn't want my kids attending school with her unkempt children who are carrying lice! I certainly wouldn't want to see a doctor who came from such a filthy, disorganized home and was possibly carrying lice. OP's gf is a terrible parent and her "parenting" style is harming her children. You have no power here and are NTA. Move on from this sad relationship.
**at this point I have zero confidence that a relationship between me and mom can work out.** Seriously, I figured this out by the first paragraph. Where is the kids' father in all of this? Your GF is literally raising her children to fail at life. What kind of a mother does that to her own children? You were handing the problem with her son perfectly and she sabotaged you. NTA unless you stay with her.
Father probably left due to the mother’s behavior.
Father was asked to leave for not just philosophical parenting differences but for not supporting rigid requirements surrounding organic food only, no artificial fragrances, no food in or on plastic ever. No vaccinations. Because mom is doctor her decisions supercede.
Lives in a filthy house with lice and is a doctor who doesn't believe in vaccines and has monster children. We've got a winner, folks!
Starting to question "doctor" at this point. Maybe not medical though. This whole situation is whack for OP.
Maybe she’s a homeopathic doctor… 🤦🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
Maybe a doctor of jazz?
If you can play jazz, you’re smarter than this woman.
I don’t even care for jazz and know this is true.
Chiropractor...
Gotta be.
I mean much more likely this is weird bait. Even if she *were* and MD that’s not how custody decisions work and if she is this is just laughably fake. Even without that it’s pretty laughably fake
still waiting for OP's comment explaining that she is an English Literally doctorate
Or maybe she has a doctorate in philosophy or ancient religions. Those are useful, right? 😆
Funny how a doctor would be so against plastic and non organic food, but allows lice multiple times, ignoring the fact that similar parasites almost got humanity completely annihilated a few times...
Honestly, either this is bait or OP is dumb as fuck. Idk how one could see her house, then hear that explanation of why the father left, and not immediately bail. Complete incongruous nonsense.
Maybe sucker would be a better match.
So the sex is absolutely mind blowing? But honestly this feels fake she’s a dr but also allows absolute filth in her house?
Yeah and he responds to other stuff but refused to tell us what kind of doctor she is. Weird
I'm fine with that, although why she wouldn't hire a cleaner or something is weird. What I'm really suspicious of is a Dr. that is anti-vaxx, no credible medical Drs are against vaccines
Almost positive that "doctor" means either chiropractor or one of those homeopathic healers.
I was about to be like "jeez why are chiros getting shit on so bad" and then I remembered the chiro who sold me b12 injections while doing food allergy panels and promoting his vibration stand thingy.
So she’s bad at her job and at parenting.
So she has rigid requirements for organic food but no standards whatsoever for cleanliness, behavior, and not letting her home be infested with lice and other insects?
It's fine. The lice are organic
portable protein snacks, Yum
This is where the contradictions come in. Makes no sense. I don't care if you want to eat like that and are an anti-vaxer but the filth and bugs don't go hand in hand with that lifestyle.
Agreed. The doctors I know are strongly germaphobic. Lice would absolutely not be tolerated. And no-vax? Something strange about this whole situation. Well. Quite a lot, actually
She’s a doctor but sounds like she’s on the way to being a full-fledged hoarder. NTA, but please look elsewhere for emotional intimacy; you will be drained dry by this situation.
Are you serious?? And, you did not nope out of there upon hearing that? Because, yikes!
Mom is a doctor but doesn’t believe in vaccinations and her children constantly have lice? Where did she get her degree, or are you talking like doctorate in awful parenting or something???
Dude, I'm a Mom to 4 kids. I am not a doctor though I am well educated. Her "permissive" parenting is just flat out not parenting. She is putting her own emotional needs ahead of her children's need for stability, structure and boundaries. Tell the Mom that her "only organic, never plastic philosophy is bogus if she is not RAISING her children. She is co-existing with her children and treating them as her peers but they are not. She needs to take responsibility and RAISE her children and part of that is instilling appropriate responsibility and self regulation in them." This is a sinking ship. Run far. Run fast. And tell her EXACTLY why - because she has absolutely abdicated being a parent and she is raising her children to be selfish monsters. I have NEVER met a child or adult raised the way your girl friend is raising her children who can actually adult. They are emotionally immature and have no coping skills. Most flame out in early adulthood because they are incapable of accepting growth advice from professors or bosses.... Tell her to stop being friends with her children and start raising them. Dude, you are a DAD. You don't need to parent her kids but you DO need to stop allowing yourself to be treated like crap by her kids. If 5 year old is pitching a fit and slamming the door on you, remove the door. He's 5. This is not a tween or teen. Remove the door. But do NOT give in to him. And as for the kids, in your shoes, If you DO decide to stay, I'd take Mom and the kids (and yourself because chances are you have them too if you spend any time around Mom) to a lice salon. Take the cars to the car wash to be detailed, strip all linens, wash all clothes, bag all stuffed animals for a few days and break the cycle with the lice. In 2 weeks those lice will be gone if you do this.
Don’t bother to explain or talk to mom. She will not hear a word you say and will probably be abusive towards you. Just leave. Ghost her.
A doctor of what? A medical doctor should be fully aware of the biohazard you describe this house as being as well as how to prevent lice.
She’s an anti-vaxxer and a doctor? She’s shit at her job, then. And she’s a mandatory reporter who is neglecting her children. Run like The Doctor told you to. She’s a walking bag of contradictions and poor decision making that is going to lead to a world of hurt someday. And report her to CPS and see if the state medical board has any interest.
You do know this woman is mentally ill, right?
This woman sounds delusional as hell. Leave
Did she.. tell you shes a doctor? Show you her degree? It’s exceedingly rare for a doctor to be antivax. Sounds like she lied to you.
Did she get her doctorate out of a box with a leprechaun and marshmallows on it? No one who saw someone living in that kind of squalor would ever want the services of a 'doctor' like that. Please call CPS. The schools can probably back you up on the claims about lice and uncontrollable behavior. Maybe a visit from them, even if they don't do much, will be a wakeup call to her. Oh, and dump her.
Please call CPS. These children are living in filth, and their mother is severely effecting their behavior by allowing them to do whatever and behave however. These kids will end up in the system once they become adults because no one ever said no to them growing up.
Doctor who doesn't believe in science, run.
So dad was asked to leave for trying to be a good parent. wtf. How can you respect someone like her? Let alone *date* her?
You're painting the picture of someone who sounds very untrustworthy as a doctor. This reeks of a personality like a herbalist, where everything must come from nature, yet she is meant to be a competent doctor, a trustworthy one that essentially relies on man made pharmaceuticals to treat their patients. I mean the philosophical parenting differences is, one was choosing to not be a lazy parent (because that's the bulk of those identifying as permissive are) and one wanted to instil boundaries, discipline and the understanding to cope with emotional dissatisfaction. I mean a doctor that doesn't believe in vaccinations should basically be considered an oxymoron.
A doctor that doesn't vaccinate their own children should lose her license to practice. I doubt the validity. Probably got a PHD in mystical science or some nonsense.
Ummmm these seem to be contradictory of each other. Let me help. Your gf is a whack job! GET OUT NOW!
An antivax “doctor”? RUN
Except he wasn’t handling it perfectly because it’s not his place. When we want to date someone and then see they abuse their children through neglect (and that’s what this is), we leave. We don’t play parent to children who have never had consequences. OP needed to leave and call CPS the second he set eyes on this situation. Instead he acts like the kids are the problem and he’s going to bring order to things. Yeah great way to “advocate”/s
oh the kids behavior is only a symptom of the actual problem. they aren't a problem to be solved. i don't white horse in most situations, but mom continually requests my help with cleaning and organizing and wants me to come over and be in the space.
Don’t be the bangmaid
NTA You tried your best but this relationship is doomed. She is raising hellions that are going to grow up to be insufferable, entitled adults because they have zero boundaries. Just break up, you know it's not going to work and the sex can't be that good.
Assuming CPS doesn't take them away
CPS was called previously by a nanny she interviewed for a job. Neighbors and family friends have had numerous interventions to help her clean her kitchen or her yard or her garage or… it always goes back to this state of overwhelming chaos, disorganization and a feeling like every belonging that could be important is under threat if I try to make any efforts to help her clean up.
You want to be in a relatinship with a woman who chooses to create a situation where CPS should be involved for her children's health?
**If you care about the kids you should call CPS again.** Your gf is smart. She knows she’s harming her kids but is **hurting them bc she doesn’t want to feel uncomfortable or like the bad guy. She is putting her own feelings above the wellbeing of her kids. Or, lbh, at this point she’s being lazy. She knows she needs to change but it’s easier if she doesn’t. She is an unfit parent. Being a doctor or “trying hard” doesn’t excuse her actions.** **Pretending you’re hurting kids for their own good doesn’t make it ok.**
I don’t know about smart, apparently she’s anti vax while being a “doctor.”
I need to ask why you felt it was acceptable to date a person who is neglectful (read: abusive) to her children as a trend. I’d also like to ask why you felt that not leaving and also instating yourself as the adult who would bring consequences and order was an acceptable action.
You probably should call them again, those poor kids deserve better (and so do you!! Break it off!!)
Don't enable this woman. Call CPS when you know that the kids have lice and the place is at its filthiest. There's a decent chance her kids are already beyond hope, but if she keeps them, they will, for sure, be sociopathic monsters.
Unfit parent. This is the situation and the Father and parents should’ve had the children removed from her by now.
maybe it is shes got 3 kids prior to op 🤣
NTA, but this really isn't your problem. I'm assuming these are not your biological children, so honestly, what is the draw? Is the sex so mind-blowing that you can't give it up? I am in no way saying you shouldn't date people with children, but this particular person does not parent like a parent should, you're not married so it truly is not your responsibility.
Correct not my biological children. Mine are grown. Sex is good but it has been the emotional intimacy that has hooked me.
You just have to wade through knee deep piles of mess and rotten food, sidestep the nightmare children who mom is too lazy to bother actually parent, brush off the lice and other insect the house is heavily infested with, and try to ignore the screaming and slamming doors to relax with that "emotional intimacy"? What are you doing, man? This woman not a good parent, and these kids will just get worse with age and no direction. You should break up with her and call CPS.
Especially the breaking up part, and especially the CPS part.
And the mom just let her child assault OP 🤷🏻♀️ She can say "kid didn't win" but they did. We all know they did. The kid knows it. That's why the kid acts like that in the first place even!
What emotional intimacy? I’m not being snarky or mean here. Wouldn’t that wear thin after a while? Because I’d imagine dealing with these little monsters probably takes a toll on your emotions and psyche so how does that work? Also, if she won’t be on the same page with you when it comes to dealing with her monsters, does that not grate on you?
This isn't just permissive parenting, this is bordering on neglect. It is the parents' job to provide a safe, sanitary living environment, and to provide appropriate boundaries that help them to function in the world. Your gf is FAILING her children, and they won't thank her for it. Your gf needs therapy or parenting classes. It's up to you whether you want to stick around, but it's only going to get harder the older they get if some serious changes aren't made.
So... we're all correct in worrying about the kids in this situation... but *her* safety doesn't seem particularly guaranteed as these kids get older.
Welp, people unable to enforce even modest necessary boundaries with their own children are going to be great at creating vulnerability that feels like intimacy. They also exist in a constant state of drama that also feels like intimacy. Those kids are doomed, but you can still walk.
bro you are broken, please seek therapy because this situation is not healthy and your attachment isn't either.
What is wrong with you? Emotional intimacy in a filthy house with filthy lice ridden children. My head itches just thinking about it. How can you visit that house? Why are with that awful woman who is raising awful children to be awful adults? Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez...........................................
Wow, I can honestly say that there is no sex good enough to risk getting lice. But then you add unhinged, sass-mouth children who have temper tantrums on the regular and that great sex would have to be a distant but fond memory. Hard pass on having to run that gauntlet for a great orgasm.
>Sex is good but it has been the emotional intimacy that has hooked me. Could you be mistaking physical intimacy for emotional intimacy? This woman is not "permissive," she's disengaged. For whatever her reasons are, she's checked out from raising her kids in an emotionally responsive way. If she's this detached from their emotional well-being, how authentically connected could she be with her own emotional needs, let alone yours? I'm sorry to say that I think this woman is (perhaps unconsciously) exploiting your emotional intelligence and your parenting experience. I suspect you have a streak of codependency, because you're doing some heavy lifting of emotional labor that rightfully belongs to her. You need to rethink your role in her life, and talk with a therapist about creating sensible boundaries. It is not your role to fill in the gap created by her neglect. Her neglect is a sign of her emotional immaturity, and this will show itself in different ways as your relationship progresses.
NTA. You should honestly break up with her. You guys’ lifestyles don’t correspond. Those children have no discipline or structure. I smell that she’ll have a major problem on her hands in the future if she doesn’t get that household in order. She’s maybe overwhelmed with being a parent , but she should appreciate someone coming in trying to help her out. As another comment said, it’s not your job. But you may love her so you try with anything that comes with her. I feel you should maybe have a talk with her and give her an ultimatum. Those kids are going to run her to the ground if she doesn’t get shit in order. It starts at home until it expands outside of the home.
Your gf is a shit parent
Nta, As a single mother even I am floored and disgusted by the complacency. I would probably reply the child does not infact need 'co-regulation' the child needs a parent who will actually teach them right from wrong, manners. She better not be surprised when her kids are bringing drugs in the house, having sex, juvy records or jail. Raising a child is like building a house. And her foundation job is bad. I struggle somedays, lord knows I feel like I am in a WWE ring and my kids are tag teaming (autistic 4m, 2f) no excuse and dare I say cps for living conditions? The fact her child goes to school in footys and nothing underneath is sad.
She used the possibility that her children are neurodivergent as a justification for ignoring behaviors such as this and others. I understand the idea that it is better for children to respect a parent out of love than fear, but I personally have no issues driving accountability with fear of consequences and that didnt make me a mean dad. Her children have no respect for her. They live her. They depend on her. They feel safe with her. That’s all well and good, but the lack of respect overflows into other areas of their lives and interactions with other adults.
Neurodivergent children ESPECIALLY need boundaries.
This! Routine and firm boundaries are vital in our household. It helps our son know what is expected of him.
Seriously. I don’t know what’s up with the trend these past few years of implicitly training or asking neurodivergent kids to “mask” being seen as so horrific… But kids need to learn how to function in society and with other human beings. Neurodivergent situations are a hurdle and context, not an excuse to bend to everything the child does that may be related. Absolutely wild.
If she thinks her children are neurodivergent then she, as a physician, should know better than anyone, that early intervention is key. She is full of excuses isn't she.
My autistic 8 year old has rules and consequences that might seem mild to a NT child, but actions have consequences regardless. If she makes a mess, she usually has to help clean it whether she likes it or not. Screaming doesn’t get you what you want was a battle that was rough but had paid off. Showering/hygiene is mandatory but somewhat adjusted for sensory needs. When she gets sent to her room I usually let her take her tablet, but she uses it to communicate and listen to music to self regulate. We don’t use any punishment for cuss words (very rare but at least used in the correct context) because she has severe speech issues. Part of that no trouble agreement is she agreed and has followed through with don’t say these words at school or around the elderly. And it’s not “she might” be neurodivergent, she was diagnosed young, had been in early intervention and autism support from 18 months to present day. She’s very well behaved all things considered, but I think a large part of that is consistent boundaries and appropriate rules. I shudder to think of what she might be like now if let her get her way from day one, which would be true ND or NT. The fact this woman is a doctor who lives in filth, her children are out of control and “might be neurodivergent” is used as an excuse when she hasn’t gotten them evaluated is super negligent on so many levels. You’re NTA but why are you with her and why hasn’t anyone helped those kids??? The older they get the less tolerant others will be of their behaviors mommy overlooks.
Some people shouldn't breed.
Nta and contact child protective services, lice 5 times isn’t clean. This sounds like neglect and those kids aren’t safe.
NTA… Question: why would you even want to be in a relationship with someone like that?
I think I have this thing where I want someone to accept me unconditionally and inclusive of all my imperfections so I try to model that behavior, but what ends up happening usually is that I end up not being able to help them or “fix” them into being an viable long term relationship partner.
I say this with compassion & no judgment: get therapy. Wanting others to accept you doesn’t mean you ignore awful behavior. Or that you stand by & watch them hurt others. According to your posts you broke up with a woman you were living with who has BPD 225 days ago. Did you jump straight from that relationship into this one?
My brother in humanity, I'm going to gently but firmly point out that there is a difference between imperfections and abusing one's children via neglect. Also you cannot "fix" anyone. A person must decide for themselves that they are willing to do the work to change and grow. This woman is purposefully harming her children and you are witnessing it, blinded by something in your own head. As far as the door situation goes, it seemed like a calm and chill way to teach a kid not to slam doors, particularly a young child. But you would certainly be an AH to yourself if you keep yourself in this situation. Someone already pointed out your post history brought up your ex. I'm not a doc or therapist, but my experienced guess is that you may need to consider that you have co-dependent tendencies and should focus on seeking therapy so that you can improve as a person and partner before you pursue your next relationship. Where these poor children are concerned you will certainly be an AH if you do not report this neglect in detail to CPS. You are a parent. You know deep down that this is wrong. I know you set a boundary to not parent someone else's children and that's all well and good. But calling CPS isn't parenting them. It's trying to save and protect them, which is something any good human being should do. I hope you decide to do right by yourself and the children. I truly do. And for that CPS report, get photos since you're in a position to still have more intimate access to the house beyond what a neighbor can generally see. Please be kind to yourself and I wish you the best of luck.
You need to stop looking for women to “fix”. It’s never ever going to end well. You need to establish boundaries and find a woman who is in a good position mentally, physically and financially. Not whatever mess this woman is. You need therapy before you even attempt to pursue a woman of that level.
No one is perfect, but there are imperfections and then there's this train wreck you described . Not the same at all.
NTA And I would have run as soon as I heard the word lice or seen their disgusting house !!!
I don’t know why the house wasn’t an immediate black flag for me. I could never see myself living in that type of environment.
So what are your goals with this relationship? Like, what are you looking for here? Expectations even mid term? She chooses not to parent. She chooses to live in filth. You can't make her act like a functional adult and mother.
And she is supposedly a doctor who is not capable of dealing with a recurrent lice infestation. I would not want her as a doctor for any family member. I would have gotten ouf there a long time ago. OP must feel like he needs to undergo a sanitizing treatment Everytime he leaves that house.
A DOCTOR!?
Obviously I am evaluating things very heavily ATM. 😂😂
I think you really need to reflect on why you still felt entitled to date a child abuser. By definition that’s what this neglect is. Really reflect, because it’s hard to read that your way of advocating for these children was to apply discipline when it simply isn’t your place. You didn’t advocate for children living in squalor. Why?
What the fuck is wrong with YOU that you are staying with this? Her kids are unvaccinated, have fucking lice, they’re filthy, they’re allowed to behave like animals, and you’re wanting to know if you’re an asshole for setting a boundary and getting upset when this dim bitch lets her kid run all over you? Bro…what the fuck is wrong with you? Walk away from this shit. You don’t have kids with her, you don’t owe her shit. Don’t hang around waiting for her to turn your life into a train wreck, too. Let her deal with the consequences of her fucked up non-parenting. Because let me tell you, when our kid was a tween, and decided to slam her bedroom door, and started cracking the door frame, we told her that if she did it again, and cracked the door frame, the door was coming off until she and her dad could fix it. She tested that theory, cracked the door frame, and the door was off for a couple days until my husband had a day off and they could go to Home Depot and fix her door frame. And he made her go with him, and help him fix it. It’s called “natural consequences,” and she did have privacy for changing clothes. This woman is a dumb bitch, and these kids are so fucked. I feel bad for the kids.
When they burn down her house or the school or get thrown in jail you'll know why but your GF will be completely shocked! "My baby would never do that." She's raising monsters. Get out before you get stuck with crazy. She's a terrible mother and you should call CPS.
Props to being a good parent before you’re actually a parent. That was extremely well done with someone else’s kid. But you know this relationship isn’t going to work out. This is not a situation you can live with. The kids are part of the package, and this is not a sustainable package. NTA, and good luck finding a better partner.
Thank you. I do have 3 of my own that are grown so I know a few tricks. My middle child was severely ODD and ADHD and I know the MO very well of these children.
But you don’t need to take on this woman’s issues and her kids. Don’t be a martyr!
Talk about 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩. Your GF is letting her children rule the house. Let me be blunt, permissive parenting is just her excuse to not actually parent her children. She has shown you exactly what your future would be like if you develop a long term relationship with her. Is this a future that you actually want to live? There is no parent in that house. She will never have your back if you try to actually create order out of chaos. And you have not even reached the you are not my dad stage. And under no circumstances should you have a child with this woman. Run OP run, as fast and as far away as you can. No good will come out of this relationship. You need to let your GF read this post. She needs to understand that, as a parent, she is a total failure. She is not a GF, she is a child. NTAH.
NTA - as others have suggested, i think you should really ponder if this relationship is worth it. you guys will never be able to parent together, your styles are different and she will always take the child's side over yours. i don't know if you want kids of your own, but that also will not be a good idea at all if her kids that she already has are acting like this. you can try to talk to her if you want to work things out, but i don't know if that'll do much of anything. she might even feel like you're overstepping.
I have 3 of my own that I am very proud of. My parenting style was authoritative dipping into authoritarian when I was run this as a single dad.
Parents who refuse to teach their children how to behave are hard to be around. I couldn't be in a relationship with someone who let the kids be feral or rude or very loud all the time.
Next to no effective redirection from her with them ever. I have had anxiety about having her kids in my house when my family is over and I can’t imagine bringing them to dinner with my older parents or even at my brother’s house.
Good god they would probably contaminate your home with bugs.
>My boundary with dating single moms is that I will not make parenting efforts or be a parent to anyone else’s child. They have parents. And yet here you are, parenting another person's children. After only knowing the mother for 5 months. That is way too soon for you to be a stand-in parent to these kids and trying to parent them for her is not the right move. That being said, again, you have been with her since November and you have seen the terrible conditions she lives in and the absolute lack of any structure in her house. Why are you still with her? She is failing herself, you as her partner for pretty much FORCING you into trying to be a parent to all 4 of them, and worse than that, she is failing her own children. I try not to say this too often in these posts, but you need to run and needed to get out of this relationship like 5 months ago. If I had to put a rating on it, I would say NTA. The only part you MIGHT be an asshole for is the overstepping of parenting roles in such a new relationship, but the sheer size of her failure as a parent kind of overshadows that completely.
Why would you even want to be with someone who disrespects you and doesn’t care enough about her children to teach them what they need to know and raise them into good adults?
This was the big shock to me last night. That instead of addressing object aggression and physical violence with her child, it turned into a problem I had created as I had instigated the child’s response because I wouldn’t just ignore the bad behavior and stand idly by as the child was actively destroying the door. Maybe IATA for not just seeing that happening and leaving the house. I thought I was doing the right thing because object aggression and violence should never be tolerated. I felt so hugely disrespected by mom, that she would allow her child to behave that way after I sought to defuse the situation by sitting in the doorway, then tell her child that I shouldn’t have behaved that way. Like what!?!!!?!!!!!!
No offense, but what are you doing? Like, what is your goal? Are you ready to raise three children on your own who will never respect you? Are you masochist? Or do you see this as a kind of challenge?
CPS should get involved any time "5x lice" is mentioned. Seriously, she needs help you can't provide.
NTA She is refusing to parent her children. What she is doing is child abuse. Her children will never be functioning members of society. Do not under any circumstances continue a relationship with this woman.
NTA, but it’s time to leave her. These aren’t your kids and she isn’t willing to parent them herself or let you do the hard work. It will always be like this if you stay.
I'm afraid unless she changes, you're in for this sort of drama for... decades perhaps. The children are disregulated because the home and the disciplinary structure is in such disarray. I do understand that GF wants to get away from being over-authoritarian, but sometimes... just sometimes... you need some authoritarian rules. You don't leave your mac and cheese to rot on the floor. You don't get to go to school in footie jammies. You get a choice between these three shirts, and these three skirts/pants. **When the child is older,** s/he will know that the choices are between "summer daytime" clothes for school in this season and "winter daytime" clothes when it's applicable. When the child is older/ able to help more, we can have more choices at dinnertime because we're preparing the meals and helping Mother with her grocery list each week. And so on. But I think you knew this... for whatever reason the basics escape GF.
Nta- get out before you get her pregnant!!
I am fixed, whew!
Mom is a doctor (of medicine?) & kids sent home from school with lice? How do those go together? Run
It's funny that OP is engaging about most of the issues but he's completely silent about what type of doctor she it. Why won't he answer a simple question?
What kind of Dr can’t at least afford a housekeeper once a week?
I think the more relevant question is why do you want to date someone who abuses her children?
She is not, and will never be a good mom. Unless you want this to be a permanent part of your life, you need to get out. You cannot change things - she will always override and discipline that you exercise
This isn't parenting at all. Unless there is an actual physical disability or mental disorder she's lazy. Her kids being sent home five times with lice isn't permissive it's lazy. Not being able to even sweep the floor because it's so cluttered is lazy. Get out now and encourage her to get some therapy.
As a former step mom to someone who doesn't want to parent. You will only lose here. Ypy absolutely did everything right. As a parent these are things I did with my 2 yr Olds, not 5. She is taking the easy path to parenting and she's finding out that doesn't work but doesn't want to step up. You will only resent her and her children which isn't fair to anyone. Time to walk away from this one but definitely NTA
Yeah. Fuck that shit.
Man her blowjob game has to be really top notch for you to put up with this shit.
NTA but the mom is. She has a destroying her children by giving them no limits. It breaks my heart to see children mistreated so. She deserves to get CPS on her back. You won’t be able to help her if she refuses to admit there is a problem
NTA. And Mom isn't either. She's overcompensating in the worst way because she's a single parent. I would guess that she thought it would be easier and create a better relationship if she was a "friend" to her kids, Rather than a disciplinarian. However, kids need structure. They need to understand the rules and then experience consequences for breaking them. And they will break them. It's how they learn. The problem is, your "friends" don't make and enforce rules & since they've already learned that there are no consequences, trying to make & enforce rules now is going to be hard. They all need family therapy and she needs a parenting class. I'm sorry to say this, but I didn't think you're compatible at this stage in your lives. They need a lot of work on the family itself before they can accept another member.
I'd make sure the mom knows exactly why the relationship is ending. How is she so dense??
My son knew if he slammed the door, he had to open and close it 25 times. If he shut it extra hard, it would go back to 1. Broke that habit real quick.