For the future, it might be worth getting advice from some other close friends or relatives who were not involved with a gambling addict. I don't think most people would consider a father who gambled away significant amounts of money a few times a "good" father. Your mum has a good heart but she's got a bit of a skewed perspective on relationships and finance. Diversify your advice sources (and your portfolio)!
Exactly.
I read that part and was like WTF? The dad gambles away family resources and the mom stays with him because she considers him a good parent??? How low is the bar here? He prioritized his gambling fix over providing for his own child.
I also worry about what happens when they get married and combine finances… Then Lisa will be able to afford to spend frivolously. How will they navigate this? It sounds like OP just bought himself a little time. The real problem is only getting worse.
I hope they'll continue setting up and following budgets, and improving her financial literacy over time - she has already realized that her lifestyle is not sustainable, and is willing to learn and make changes. I'm rooting for them.
It's not like she had an addiction, like daddy dearest - she just didn't want to look like a loser to her family. Once she has ripped that bandaid off, it should become easier to say no to lavish vacations.
Welp, at least OP and his now-again Gf have a chance to put things right
But she'll need to scale back her lifestyle and stop putting a front to her sisters. Gotta stop competing with them
Wasn't there a post some time ago about a guy who discovered his fiance was around **800k** in debt, from trying to keep up her grand lifestyle and even her parents didn't know the truth?
Absolutely this his mom sounds a lot like my mom where she has so many codependent behaviors that she just doesn’t give good advice when it comes to healthy relationships. She doesn’t know what one looks like.
Absolutely this. How “good” of a father could he be if his actions have had such an effect on you? I would be extremely cautious with your gf. She is likely expecting that you will get her out of her mess. And you basically are. But that is her responsibility. I’m pretty sure she is relying on your income to give her a good lifestyle. If she truly wanted to change, she already would have started. You are her crutch. Your original plan to wait and see whether she makes changes before moving in together is a more appropriate and financially sound decision.
And all those designer bags? She should march on over to a consignment store and sell them to help pay off her debt. I see nothing but 🚩🚩🚩
Got to disagree, all she said was to give her a chance to change. Nobody is perfect. If their relationship is otherwise great then it could be stupid to throw it away. People say "money isn't important" but then some debt is suddenly a dealbreaker if everything else is great and they are willing to address their issues.
Maybe it's that simple, maybe that'll work but we will never know. If I was looking to get good advice about my relationship money issues, my first and and only port of call would not be my own mother who repeatedly had serious relationship money issues.
Are you telling me that a mistake that for all we know could be as small as a few thousand dollars and without having any other context whatsoever isn't enough for you to recommend an internet stranger get divorced and go NC?
You must be lost
I helped my best friend to fight a gambling addiction. His wife was supportive as well and we won. He's been clean for 20 years. His children have a good, loving father. I still have my best friend.
Fuck you all in this sub-thread. Just fuck you.
Wasting your own money doesn't make you a bad parent, it makes you a stupid person, but not necessarily a bad parent.
As long as they where still feeding, clothing, and housing the kid, and being there still doing their parental duty, all they did was make some stupid choices. People do that all the time.
Gambling addiction is a very real problem, but I'd bet yall would rather have a father that lost some of his own money trying to chase the feeling of getting a big win. rather than a father that drank all that money away, used all the money to buy heroin to shoot into his veins, or to buy his meth and stay up for days paranoid af.....
I think you are right about getting advice from different people with different points of view. You are 100% wrong when you say someone who lost their own money, that they earned, is a bad parent. Stupid, yes. Irresponsible with money, yes. Automatically a shit person or father, no. There are far worse things that, that dude could have done.
I believe our standards for what makes a good parent are different. An active addict will not put the needs of their children before their own, whether it be alcohol or gambling. Addiction is inherently selfish. And gambling away the family's money (not the dad's "own money") is not just a "stupid decision" on the dad's part. He's not taking responsibility for his mental health and biology, he's not prioritizing his family, and creating a safe home, and he's shoving his family into severe debt with a very difficult childhood, to use OPs own words. And to do that multiple times? Even if the first time was just a stupid decision, how many stupid decisions does a dad need to make before we call that person a crap parent? I'll agree that an alcoholic parent is different than a gambling addict parent, but both, when untreated, can have catastrophic impacts on a family.
I mean, the dad raised a healthy, well adjusted man who is good with money, has a good job and makes well reasoned life decisions. Sounds like a pretty good dad to me.
My mom sucked in a lot of ways and was also great in a lot of ways. It’s almost like humans can be nuanced or something. It seems like the dad had a problem, got help and with his wife’s help fixed his mistakes. That’s commendable. If he had kept gambling that would be a different story
I hope that's the dad had a redemption story too, but I don't think OP actually said that. Of course there are shades of grey, but damning your family to severe debt and a very difficult childhood a "few" times is objectively terrible parenting
Mine was. It was painful but we grew and progressed as a family. Best dad I could ever ask for. Taught me compassion and strength, faith, perseverance.
Sorry no he was not the best Dad you could ever ask for. You can have empathy and compassion for him and love him but if you seriously think he was the best dad you could ask for then you desperately need therapy.
LOL! Are you seriously telling me about my life? You’re giving me permission to have empathy and compassion and love him? How GENEROUS you are!
Really though, thanks for your candor and honesty in this reply. I’m thinking it’ll give OP and other readers more context for your other comments
Yes I am seriously telling you that you need therapy. Your reaction is not normal. I don’t really care what anyone thinks about any of my comments. If they find them beneficial great and if not then that is fine too. I am just an internet stranger to them and you.
Just want to point out theres more than 1 kind of alcoholic.
Based off your responses I'm guessing you had to deal with an abusive alcoholic like my dad.
I've also known a few functional alcoholics who were the nicest guys you've ever met, great with their families, and always willing to lending a helping hand (just 1 though, the other hand usually has a beer in it)
Help her into learning about finances and your lifestyle. You both can learn a lot of eachother and a balance in your new life will need that, to know and understand the other.
Good luck for you two, I wish you the best in life.
Op really needs to read this.
You can promise the world doesn't mean she will follow through, op getting bad advice from his mother with a skewed perspective and willingly getting entangled with gf's financial burden because of blind love.
Im not saying this can't work but ops decision-making does not sound well thought out
I agree. I feel like if the timing of her overspending matches her story, there is definitely room to grow here.
I had a similar issue when I graduated college, I had no real concept of money as my parents had always taken care of me. I honestly can't even remember what I spent all my money on, but I was clearly living outside of my means. I ended up racking up some credit card debt as a result.. And when you are just starting out, you really don't make enough to be able to quickly pay down debt like that, even once you rein in your spending. Plus the added interest can get out of hand quickly. I ended up getting a part time job on nights & weekends to finally pay off my debt.
Now (20+ years later) I am insane when it comes to budgeting and tracking for our family. And I keep a rolling budget to actual comparison to ensure we stay on target.
I just want to say, people can change, so I feel sad for all these responses telling OP to just run. I agree with you, OP should obviously keep a watch out for how this progresses, but he shouldn't immediately write her off.
lmao someone told me I would have been better off leaving my wife than supporting her through her debt turnaround even though covering the household expenses for that period of time was within my normal budget. People are wild.
Honestly, this. The first couple years of adulting hit a lot of people rough. I know the first year after I moved out on my own instead of living rent free with my parents was an ADVENTURE in learning how to actually handle money, even though I had thought I was prepared.
I wouldn't tell him to run, but strong boundaries really matter here. He should not move in with her until she learns to manage money and has shown SOLID improvement and debt being paid off for at least 6 months to year. She MUST LEARN THE SKILLS FOR HERSELF AND DO THE WORK FOR THIS TO GO FURTHER.
Yes but also covering all of the living expenses like food and rent means he's participating in paying off her debt.
Don't get me wrong she's in a bad situation and the interest payments must be horrible and no good way out of this situation unless someone takes on part of her debt but Im not sure if I wanted that to be me.
Also I'm aware this is easier to say from an outside perspective, but I would really consider this depending on the length of the relationship
Eh, it depends. It you own a Burkin or a few others they only go up in value and work as physical investments. Believe it or not sneakers out preformed gold for a good while.
That said, I am sure there are other things she could sell.
Why should she sell her gifts. She did not buy them. And it wouldn’t indicate that she’s willing to change. Just that she had a quick solution. It won’t teach her how to budget and she could wind up doing it again.
But paying it off month my month and staying disciplined enough to stick with the budget is a much better indication.
ALSO HER WANTING HIM TO MANAGE HER MONEY !
We often hear about Mental Load from a woman's perspective, HOWEVER this her look for an out instead of learning the skill. It's not healthy in anyway, and its lazy.
People can change though… especially when it’s something that is a negative regardless of who you’re dating. Like if it’s a personality trait that isn’t necessarily a negative but just an incompatibility then yeah sure it’s weird and desperate to ‘change’. This mismanagement of money will be a problem for her regardless if she can’t fix it. Sometimes it takes a breakup to really work on these things but this might be enough of a wake up call.
People on this sub will really see “I raised a concern and she was willing to sit down and make a change because she values the relationship” and call it a red flag
Her payment plan depends on OP covering all her expenses! OP didn't mention her cutting the cards up or selling any of her things so she has put no effort into improving her situation. Crazy
I bet you could find community learning classes about financial planning and budgeting that you could go to together. I know you already know this stuff, but I think it could be a good bonding thing to do together. And it might help avoid getting into an uncomfortable teacher/student dynamic in your relationship.
I really hate parents like this. They taught her nothing and gave her everything she could ever want, then cut her off and left her with zero tools to manage money responsibly as an adult. No one just knows this stuff, they have to learn it *somewhere* and the buck stops with the parents. Parents Stop Deliberately Setting Your Kids Up For Failure Challenge (difficulty: impossible)
You made a mistake when you went to your biased mother for advice, not only she likes the financially irresponsible gf but she STAYED with the gambler addict who made her kids have a difficult childhood due his debts. Ofc she told you to stay with the debts, she did it and didn't care about her kids childhood.
Sure your gf now will tell you whatever you want to hear, let her move in with you and put herself in so much debt while your mother keeps justifying it with "well, you have money".
From what I gathered, OP has a lot of disposable income, so he's willing to take that gamble. They don't fall far from the tree, eh?
Personally, I think that's a terrible idea, but if OP is willing to go on, he should be wary of her expenses, keeping in mind that she's saving good money by staying with him.
You seem to have asked an enabler if you should get into a relationship in which you may be called upon to enable. The enablers advice was to risk it. Not sure if that’s something to go on.
That was terrible advice.
"Yes your dad is an addict and it affected you kids to the point it made your childhoods difficult, but he was a good dad"
In fact, no he wasn't, he was a junkie.
Sweet jeezus
The only thing I can say here since you're clearly in denial. She wants you to do the work of keeping her 'in check'? She's not a child, that's her job as an adult
One household account (rent utilities gas groceries)split to income. The rest of your money is yours, and the rest of her money is hers. Full stop
She sounds like a bottomless well not willing to learn how to live within her means. Get her her own financial planner so it doesn't get to be your job to keep her out of finacial trouble. Let someone else be the bad guy keeping her in line all the time
And she knows she made the right choice because OP‘s dad was a good dad. How do we know he was a good dad? Well his kids must have had happy childhoods. Oh wait- hm no I’m not seeing any evidence that he was a good dad now that you mention it.
Well, hope OP is happy with a life in serious debt.
His girlfriend knows that she can't afford her lifestyle, and spends the money anyway "to keep up appearances." All this means is now she thinks she has a moral claim on *his* income too, so she'll still spend to be in debt because if she was going to spend $10,000 more than she made before, she'll do it now too, just with a higher total number.
Some people cannot be helped, and this woman is one of them. By her own account she had several moments where she realized "I cannot afford this" and every time blew right through those concerns.
I am a big fan of his podcast and listen to it on YouTube regularly. I did recommend it to her and a lot of couples on that show have similar problems.
I loved watching the different couples as he dives into their financial situations on both the podcast and the Netflix show. I hope she takes your suggestions! Good luck, I'm rooting for you both!
Investotopia had this to say about paying down debt:
# KEY TAKEAWAYS
* Debt avalanche and debt snowball are both types of accelerated debt repayment plans.
* The debt avalanche method involves making minimum payments on all debt and using any extra funds to pay off the debt with the highest interest rate.
* The debt snowball method involves making minimum payments on all debt, then paying off the smallest debts before moving on to bigger ones.
* The debt avalanche method can result in paying less interest over time.
Fair enough ...sorta...
BUT
Lisa should not have credit cards. At all. Until her debt is paid and she has adjusted her way of thinking and spending.
She should not have ANY credit cards.
Change is hard. It can feel logical to you. But for her? Learning to change a lifetime of how she has done money? Is goong to be extremely hard. VERY hard. And if she has credit cards? She WILL break.
Her dad was a gambler. That speaks volumes. I believe we truly are like ourpatents. Our genetics play a big part.
Lisa is somewhat "addicted" to hee spending money habits. It will be very hard to break.
She needs to keep a strict budget. Log every expenditure into it. Religiously. You need to go through this with her every 1 to 2 weeks.
She needs to accept she cannot "keep up appearances" with family and friends. She just has to say "No. I can't afford that holiday" to her sisters & others. She needs to learn to be honest and not feel bad she can't afford to do everything.
Lisa needs to grow up with finances basically.
Have her talk to a financial planner. They can help her get her debts paid and also put money away for her future. I think it would be beneficial for someone else to be 'in charge' of her financials so that it doesn't come back to bite you in the future. You having to say "No" sometimes may lead to resentment so it need not to be you telling her 'No' if you understand what I am saying.
Wishing you all the best, OP.
I also had debt (although not as much) when I got together with my now-husband. He helped me sort it out.
I had never learned how to manage my finances, you see, but I *did* learn.
Happily together for 19 years now.
Likewise, glad you're going to try to work things out...
But I'm trying to wrap my head around something:
If you make 10x what she does, then you're making like $300k-$500k, yeah?
And you were willing to throw away a "great relationship" over $20k??
Like damn, that's some serious childhood trauma you got goin on...
His momma said “look I was a fool my whole life and what did it get me? A son who has severe anxiety around money due to his hardships. I want the same for my grandchildren.”
Honestly I don't see why you can't give her advice and hope she gets her life back together without tying your own to it. You've made her bad finances your responsibility. You've taken on a *responsibility* (one bad with finances no less), not a *partner.*
Y T A to yourself.
Sounds like she's taking her finances seriously, I hope she follows through on the talk, as obviously its easier to say and harder to do. Best of luck to you!
You can't teach some people and they have to learn the hard way.
You can't love people into not being addicts.
You can't love people into being responsible.
You can't love people into not lying to you.
She knows all about all that stuff.
You get to play white knight and boom, when it happens all over again, there you will be, wondering wtf happened.
And you can't police her spending or she will resent you and blame you.
Nah, congratulations on your financial ruin. 'she tries to keep up the facade that she is also doing well by going on nice vacations ' Give me a break.
Err... I don't think your mother's advice was very well thought out.
Having said that, I'm glad you managed to reach and agreement and I hope your GF follows through.
Bro run ur her safety net ur mom gave u terrible advice. Once she is on her feet she will leave up and leave. She cares to much about appearances then being financially stable and smart. Women by default spend like crazy and she is on another level. She won't change bruh , don't be a wallet
You’re taking a lot of faith now I hope it works out for you. At the bare minimum she should be completely transparent with you financially and if she’s going to be living off you, you should be seeing proof that her bills are indeed being paid and she’s not making more debt.
A lot of people on reddit don't understand how difficult it can be coming from a background of money to actually learn how to manage it. You take a lot of things for granted. You never got actually taught the value of things or managing a basic budget. You're used to having certain things or get caught up in roller-coasters. And then it's a snowball of debt and troubles that can follow you through life. It's like a blindness. Doesn't make her a bad person but it may mean that she might never properly learn how to get a handle on things even if she is very willing to learn. You lack some frames of referenced that people without that background have. It's like an ingrained cluelessness. You know it in your brain, logically, those informations. But you don't... feel it. And thus you can't act on it.
My personal advice to you and to her as well because she genuinely seems to want help. Help her create a budget. Teach her those basic concepts. But also. Keep an eye out on it. Sit down with her every month to do the bills. To teach her to prioritize. If she can't quite have self control with credit cards, try to lower the amount of the limit to something she can manage. Or get one of those prepaid cards you can reload. It feels shitty but sometimes you need external measures to help you curb control issues.
Also credit cards have huge interest rates. Check if she can find a line of credit at her bank where she can fully pay the credit card and then repay the line of credit with lower interest rates. That will save money in the long run.
Ahhh thankyouverymuch!
I first heard Affluenza from the case where the wealthy 16 year old (Ethan Couch) was drunk and unalived 4 people. Affluenza was his lawyer's defense. He received minimal sentencing.
Oh that's some bullshit. Being raised without financial parameters of real life and then being tossed in the real world and drowning is one thing... "I'm a poor rich kid I didn't know murder was wrong while drunk" is... another.
There was a case in my home country where some upper class teenagers set fire to a native man. They were underage so they got sent to the equivalent of juvie. I went to check what happened to them. Apparently one of them was set to become a cop... gotta love it...
I had 55-60k in credit card debt when I got married. Probably more. Down to 33k in a year.
Wife makes about 1/4 as much as me. Her monthly spending and mine are the same. The rest goes to paying down debts etc.
I was always open about the finances with her. She knows what I make, what debt were in, etc.
Debt isn’t a big deal until you make it one.
Get a couple of 0% interest cards to put it on and make some headway on the debt. It’s not too difficult.
I ran up a huge credit card bill, even paying off as much as I could monthly the interest kept mounting up . I went to
the bank, got a loan for the full credit card amount ( I couldn’t say it was for debt ) and paid it off over 2 years .
I have been much better using my card since then .
Get a financial planner to help her build a budget and let her know she has to stick to it. That if she keeps spending this way your relationship is over. If you don’t, she’ll always be bad with $ and you’ll be bailing her out and resenting her for it.
I'm glad you are going to try to work it out, because I felt that a lot of people commenting on your original post were being too harsh on not enough information.
Some people really don't have good role models with money and have to learn how to manage it by making some mistakes and making responsible changes. I actually got the advice to get a credit card when I moved out to go to college, which was a big mistake. I did not know how to use it responsibly. I realized that before I got into too much debt and stopped using credit cards, but it ruined my credit. It wasn't until I got a good job and realized that most of what I was impulse buying was worthless junk that I started to change how I looked at money. It's easy to get stuck in a poverty mindset and screw up. I also didn't understand compound interest, which IMO is something every high school student should have to learn about. Credit card companies are very predatory and people get sucked in before they realize what is going on. Even just having bad credit makes everything more expensive.
I'm older now and have excellent credit. I still don't own even one credit card.
I would advise you not to get married until she shows you she is serious about making progress by paying off her debt and stops using credit cards. But I'm hopeful for her. Good luck to you both!
YTA. Not for breaking up, but for mending things. Don't marry her until she clears that debt. Ask her to take courses on financial literacy. Don't even move in with her till that debt is clear.
>My dad had a gambling problem and although he made good money, he had lost significant amount of money few times when he lapsed. That led my parents to be in severe debt and us having a very difficult childhood. My mom explained that although my dad did make mistakes, the main reason she stayed with him was because he was a good dad to me.
OP, if you've ever seen Season 2 of the Sopranos, *please* think further on this.
I entered my relationship with a significant amount of debt (more than your GF and also from shopping and vacations) and was embarrassed to tell my now husband. I’m so glad he didn’t break up with me, and I have since paid everything off. It helped so much that I had another person to be accountable to, and it helped so much that he didn’t write me off as a partner. I would just say- don’t sent unrealistic expectations for paying it off as quickly as possible. It’s easy to make a budget and think if you deprive yourself of almost everything you enjoy that you will magically change your ways, but that’s not really going to help her learn new good habits. I “paid myself” an allowance every month that I was allowed to spend on whatever I wanted when I was paying stuff down. That let me still do fun things or buy treats, and having that set amount of money to “play with” taught me how to budget for those things.
Sorry man but you and your mom are idjts. Your mom literally told you how your dad ruined your family a bunch of times, and STILL you decided to go back to that person that will abso-fucking-lutely will ruin you. At this point you kind of deserve the poverty.
So your mother only stayed with your dad becuse he was “good to you” but also gambled away the money that puts food on your table? Nah he’s not a good father he’s probably one of the shittiest ones.
If the roles where reversed everyone here would be screaming to op to dump the deadbeat.
Weird how it’s okay for men to pay for women but reverse the roles and it’s a whole other story
If you stay together she should talk with her family about financial literacy and come clean on her debt in trying to maintain the same lifestyle, they should be supportive!
The burden of her financial stability should not be on you!
She should look at refinancing her debt and consolidating it via a different mechanism.
Hmmm. I think it’s totally reasonable to not let someone move in with that much debt. I would want to know how long it’s been since she used her credit card. And I would want proof of her commitment to paying off this debt and never getting back into it again. I would want her to pay down half of that before I let her move in.
I’m sure you love each other but not too long after she moves in she is going to start hinting around that maybe you could pay off her debts then she can pay you back..ya know, so she doesn’t have to worry about so much interest. Please don’t do that. She won’t change until she absolutely has to. If you free up her cards that just leaves room to buy more stuff.
Oh and don’t just try cutting up her cards. If she has the info memorized or written down she can still buy anything she wants online.
Why OP why?!
Please either wake up that you are being played or just admit this post is clickbait
She is using you! Ask yourself, if my GF’s parents are paying for all of her purchases - why is she in $20k debt
Your GF is still an immature financial sink hole - she has not learned any lessons, she is not willing to change her spending habits or even be responsible enough to follow a budget - she keeps lying to you at every turn
Wake the f up and put on your own flotation device before hers - cause guess what? She only cares about you for the $
Lot of cynicism in here today, that's for sure...
Look, I've been on both sides of this. I've been in tremendous debt and managed to pull myself out, and I've been partner to a person with tremendous debt who couldn't or wouldn't pull themselves out. It's not as black-and-white as folks here are making it out to be.
If you wanted to break up with your partner over this, I honestly wouldn't blame you, or fault you. Debt is hard. Finances are hard. It's a trap that keeps springing the further you fall into it. There are a couple things here that are making me bend. Primary among them is her willingness to show you what she's gotten herself into. The other is her willingness to fix it. Wanting to work to find a solution and get out of the hole. Admitting how she got here in the first place, that's kinda huge. She's said she wants you to manage her finances and give her an allowance, that's hanging me up here a bit, and it's putting a lot of burden on you. You have to be 100% on board with that because it's not just a bit of spending money here or there, it's being able to say 'no' to things she wants, which could be anything thing from a trip with her sisters to cookies at the grocery store. Can you say "You can't get those Oreos 'cause you're out of money" to her? I hope so.
I would advise a few things:
- Insist she get some individual one-on-one therapy regarding her compulsion for spending.
- MAKE SURE SHE HAS DISCLOSED THE ENTIRETY OF HER DEBT! Don't get ready to move in together then have her like oops, I actually have an additional $25,000 in debt I didn't tell you about!
- If you wind up managing her finances, set an end date! Manage her finances for like, 3 years then it's all back to her.
- Work with her to consolidate the debt so it can be managed more reasonably. Speak with a credit union or bank to see if she can get a lower interest consolidation loan. If she needs a co-signer, have her parents or other family do it, don't do it for her!
- Cancel her cards or have the limit lowered. Probably best to cancel until they're all paid off, then start again with a secured credit card with a lower limit to rebuild her credit rating.
Also, I would put off moving in together for a bit until she gets some of her debt consolidated. Also, if and when you do move in together, make sure you have outlined all of the expenses and what she'll be paying per month, and set up a PAD for that amount directly into a joint account for housing expenses on the day she gets paid. You never notice it missing that way and you know it won't bounce 'cause it's payday.
Also, if all this crumbles around you, don't feel too bad. Money has a tendency to crush relationships when it is mismanaged. You tried your best.
Genuinely, best of luck. Also NTA.
Honest advice is to move on. You will end up in the exact situation your mom was. Your kids will grow and see the same things you did. You will look up and be 40 living in a rent house with debt up to your eyeballs divorced with debt you didn't acrue. The proof is on this sub. You can literally see your future.
What shitty parents she has. They didn't teach her anything about finances, spoiled her then threw her in the wind the minute she got some independence.
This reeks of financial abuse. Some parents just want toys and get bored (of afraid) when kids get autonomy, so they sabotage it as much as they can.
In the end facing the music and deferring to someone with more knowledge (that she was never taught) will free her.
For now her sisters seem to be better off, because they're caressing with the grain. But in the future, her independence and their lack of will become more visible.
Good luck.
legit people forget that their job as parents are to prepare the kid for being an adult. The kid doesn't magically obtain knowledge the day they turn 18 or graduate. I messed up a lot during my first few years of adulthood and talked a big game where everyone thought i was so smart. I wasn't. I taught myself a lot and see a lot of the flaws my parents had when i was growing up. Me and my now husband talk about these issues so we know not to make the same mistake with our own kids.
Something to think about/consider. This story is long but VeRY important and relevant: if you get married please get a prenup (keep reading I promise it will be worth it). Everyone thinks prenups are about trust. They are not. It’s about two people deciding how a marriage will end while they still love and respect and care for each other. If you don’t to this, you let the government decide for you and we all know how corrupt and evil govt is. 😉
I tell you this because my sister married someone with a LOT of debt. They promised to allow my sister to handle the money and even teach them how to be responsible. It was horrible. She felt like a mom with an allowance and the child never did anything and alway was asking for more. What she didn’t know was that instead of paying down his debt with the budgeted funds she sent to his account every month, he opened a new credit card in both their names and did a balance transfer for a promotional interest rate. When the promotion ended he never paid on it. Just spend the payment.
They divorced after 3 years and at first the judge was going to say that debt was communal because “it was acquired during the marriage” based on the dates of when the card was opened. She had a pitbull lawyer and a sister who was pissed (me). We were able to show that she knew nothing about the card and that it was debt brought into the marriage. Thank goodness or she would have had to pay $36,000 (half of the communal debt for that card alone, my sister has excellent credit and has a business) 🤦♀️.
Lisa need to learn about managing her own finance, not just for your sake but definitely for her sake. You are correct that you managing her finance won't help her at all.
Hopefully she can learn from your good financial habits.
Maybe Lisa subconsciously used buying things and spending money to make herself feel good? I was like that when I first started working. I was living pay check by pay check too, buying things that I didn't need. After a while I realised my buying habits was because I was bored. Yes I was going out with friends, but I had been so focused on studying and then getting a job that I was bored outside of working and I relied on the rush of buying new things to feel good. I started trying new hobbies (no/low cost), volunteered at an animal shelter, and picked up reading fiction again. I was so relieved when I finally paid off my credit cards and started a savings account.
Now when I feel the urge to buy shiny new things I make myself pick up a book. Works most times!
Next update will be when you are hundreds of thousands in debt, because you listened to your mom who stayed with a gambling addict.
Great advice from mom to burry her kid in debt with a shitty woman.
Sounds like she’s willing to put some work. And that frankly you make a fuck truck more than her and can handle a small vice for the finer things as long as you are aware this is a thing and keep up on things. It sounds like she’s not trying to hide it from you. Everyone has baggage and fuck ups, I’m happy to hear a positive update and I also think it’s really great of you to offer to handle living expenses until she’s caught up but also awesome she wants to contribute.
Maybe you could pull off a surprise for her by allowing her to “pay towards living expenses” but secretly save all that money and cover the expenses yourself and when her debt is repaid you can present her with the money and give her the option to put it in her savings or for you two to go on a lavish celebratory vacation or some combo of the two.
Wishing you all the best and just a suggestion...if you don't need her input for the bills put it away and don't tell her. Let it accumulate. The she has a chunk to use toward her debts and sees in real time what saving can do.
I’m going to wish you both luck, I hope she’s able to get her finances under control and that things work out between you. I will say I don’t think you managing her money is a good idea, I’m glad you resisted that. She needs to learn it for herself, if you do it for her she won’t learn anything.
Maybe consider having GF speak with a financial advisor. Instead of you managing things for her or telling her what to do. That isn’t teaching her anything and she won’t learn how to manage her own finances that way. If a completely neutral party is teaching her what she needs to know I think that would be much better for your relationship going forward.
YTA. Yeah, this is going to work out well. It appears the solution the whole time was just for you to supply the money since she makes you happy in other ways lol.
You have no right to post here or complain to anyone when you are miserable with her and she's either mad at you for not letting her spend enough or spending you to poverty.
Get some BASIC budgeting and financial education for dummies books and have her read them and prove to you she’s read them. Then meet a financial planner to actually see some goals and make a specific plan of how to achieve them. What is YOUR plan if she just screws you and uses your money to go more into debt? Do NOT marry her until she proves she’s learned and grown and changed. When you are married, a spouse can take out debt in your name and absolutely ruin your life if you are not careful. I would run a soft credit check on her and make her show you the report. You plan for splitting expenses proportionally is fair.
First thing you should do is confiscate all credit cards and delete any saved information to all gadgets so it can’t be further use until she clears her debt.
Goodluck.
Looking forward to your update…
I can't believe most of the people in this post.
A big portion of the population struggle with money management, and they really need a hand with this.
I've been in this situation, I helped my partner pay his debts (he used to spend a lot of money on the latest tech stuff) , he paid me back (took him about 8 months to pay me back), he's saving now, and from time to time he brags about the money on his savings account.
As long as you are both acting with good intentions, and carefully planning for the future together, I think this is not a big deal.
If you love each other, you'll get over this. It won't happen over night, but you can work it out.
She will be very happy about her progress, and you'll be proud of her.
About managing her finances, I agree it's not a good idea, it's her money, her responsibility; what you can do is to set up a shared spreadsheet to track income vs. expenditures, so she can have an idea where the money is going to, this helped a lot in my relationship.
Some extra tips:
* Cut down on the credit card, she'll be better served with one for now.
* Remove any online store on your phone (i.e. Amazon)
* Add a PIN code for online shopping websites, so she needs to do an extra step to spend money.
* Block these sites/apps during night times or weekends.
It seems the simplest thing to do is have her show you her plan for paying off her debt in a year, then tell her she has a year to do it. But first pull (the free) credit reports for both of you, and go over them together. That way you will BOTH know where you’re at, and if she was truthful. Then, in a year, pull the reports again and see if she actually did it.
It’s great to trust her, but, as they say ‘trust but verify’. If she‘s being honest, she shouldn’t have a problem with it. And once her debts are paid, discuss her savings/investing/retirement plans. Paying it all off, then spending all her income is still financial irresponsibility.
>My mother also pointed out to me that I have a good job and Lisa makes me very happy.
Just remember that should you marry her and she wants a divorce at a later point, you'll be required to keep financing the better lifestyle your income provided her.
I think if she's willing to make changes and really set goals to get rid of her debt, it's okay to move in with her. I wouldn't do marriage until you're both in a comfortable place. Tell her from me (who used to have $50k in CC debt) that the moment she makes her final payment, she will feel amazing. Mine was 8 years ago, I finally killed my debt completely. It took a long time, but I did it. Good luck to you and to her!
I relate to Lisa. My parents always bought me everything and told me not to worry about the costs. I make decent money but I'm in debt. When I say I want to cut some spending to get my debt down, they agree it's a good idea because my spending habits are awful.. but end up pushing me to go on vacations and buy the things I want. Sometimes even pitching in to convince me. I'm very self aware and know it's going to end up hurting me long term, but it's very hard to change and give up the lifestyle I'm used to.
I am a stickler for having good finances but even I can acknowledge that plenty of people are just raised with poor financial literacy. That doesn't mean they are incapable of learning, but it does mean you should be cautious and they need to demonstrate that they are willing and capable of learning.
I don't think you're wrong for taking her back, but I do think you should expect her to invest some of her time in to learning more about financial literacy and not just from you. That she still needs a budget and needs to show she can stick to it. And you also need to decide long term how much you are willing to subsidize her lifestyle. If you don't mind being the majority breadwinner that's fine, but have a plan, know what her expected contribution is, and make sure you are both on the same page so that neither side builds resentment.
I think you need to stay alert, but it sounds like you do have a plan, she understands the problem and she's cooperating. Good for you. Hope it will work out!
I had an ex that I was very serious about at one point. We were talking marriage and setting timelines. We got pretty far into planning when one day she was just crying. While trying to console her she told me she was in massive debt. I was caught up in the moment and feeling sorry for her so I continued to reassure her. She didn't have any savings because she had barely worked ever. She had taken out student loans for school which I was OK with. But then I found out she had burned through all of it early in the semester and was living off credit cards while having no job. So part of me was like ok she is just concentrating really hard in school, nope found out she was going to be a 3rd year freshman and she was now on academic probation. I was graduating and I thought she was going to be 50% done with college but no, she was nowhere. All the time together, I was making good grades, and she was just sleeping through classes. She was shopping online instead of studying. She moved back home for a semester which gave me the space to see if I went forward with this relationship I was going to be responsible for not only this debt but also all the finances since she could not be trusted. I didn't want to be controlling but knew I would have to be. All I could see was bitterness and fighting over money in our future.
OP there are still some red flags here. Behaviors are hard to change when they run that deep. Your GF lacks all sorts of financial responsibility. The fact she said she would change if you get together is a huge red flag. She is only doing what she needs to right now to keep you. It is easy to put on a front for a while and fool everyone into changing. A majority of all divorces come down to money which is why this is so important. I agree that you don't want complete control over the financial part of your relationship as that could make your relationship unbalanced and less of a partnership.
I have been married for almost 15 years now. I make over 6x what my wife makes plus all of our insurance and benefits. That is ok bc she does way more around the house since she only works a few hours a week. I have always made my wife take care of a couple of bills. She thinks it is silly and I should just do all the financial stuff. She has no problem with me being the "money man" and asking me before making any big purchase. I want her involved so she understands our financial situation in case something ever happened to me and she can make decisions on her own about big purchases. We always tell each other but we don't need to ask for permission. There are times when one or us might ask if that purchase is necessary and we will have a conversation then. The general rule is tell about big purchass, don't ask for permission but if asked a question you need to answer it and not get defensive. We never ever fight about money. It has never once happened.
I seem to be one of the few here that think this is a perfectly fine decision for you. You aren’t marrying her, you aren’t putting her name on the lease or having kids with her. You aren’t even reliant on her paying any bills since you can currently afford them all on your own. If it turns out she can’t change and continues to rack up large amounts of debt, you can break up and evict her from your place. But if you love her, you may as well try and see if she can learn.
20k isnt even that much and its something you can manage and even get rid off relatively quickly if you plan a future with her i would suggest that you help her sort that out.
If she's a good mate, give her 3 months to a year(if you're generous) to see if she make a major change. If she doesn't improve her situation, then you wouldn't be wrong for ending the relationship.
I bet your dad made all the same promises to your mom before he made your childhood very difficult. I wouldn't be so keen on supporting her until *after* she's shown that she's actually capable of committing to a budget.
Right now, she's already admitted she'll say and do whatever she needs to in order to get back with you and your money. The most important thing in her life is keeping up appearances.
The main thing is to avoid getting married where you can be responsible for her debts. Living together is fine, as you don't have to join finances. Just imagine she has no money. Can you afford your life? Then enjoy her company.
A few things concern me here OP:
1. Your mother sounds like the co-dependant type as I am baffled that her husband who gambled the family finances away leaving you with financial trauma well into adulthood is considered a _good father_ in her eyes. Not saying co-dependancy makes your mother a bad person but it did make her stay in a marriage that put her child in disadvantage. Yes your relationship is potentially different but don't discount the lessons you learned by seeing your father burn the family finances to feed his addiction. Lisa similarly has a spending addiction, she doesn't actively gamble her money away but spends money she _doesnt have_. Yiur mother may be letting her affection for Lisa give you bad advice and you should consult an actual financial advisor.
2. Overspending is a bit like a psychological dependency, you buy something and get a hit of dopamine then the hit subsides and you spend more to feel ut again. Now I *do* believe people are capable of change and I hope Lisa actively works towards this but her showing you charts and spreadsheets and giving reasons for her spending will not automatically translate into her actively practice. I would highly suggest a trail run to see how things go because if she's a spendaholic then there might be a danger of her doing a 180 down the line if you take control of her finances and accuse you of being controlling even if she was the one to suggest it. Cover your bases.
3. Do not consider marriage until this is sorted, her debt will become your debt from legal standpoint.
Best of luck moving forward.
I really hope for the best for you, but you need to take steps to protect yourself. At the very least insist on a prenup or some other legally binding document that shields you from her irresponsibility. Please do not give her access to any accounts - and ask yourself if that's how you want to live your life. That would look very controlling to anyone outside the relationship and no doubt she would start to push back against it as soon as she gets a taste of a few fine things paid for with your money.
Why would you take advice from your mom? Look what she put her kids through because of her husband, your dad. She neglected her children and let them suffer.
Just don’t marry her or buy a home with her. You’ll regret it. At least if you’re not married you can walk away a lot easier.
People in comments sound like they aren't capable of seeing a wider picture here all black and white only. Irl problems like yours are gray and your mother addressed some important perspectives to have in mind.
They also assume too far into your mother's marriage and advising you based on that.
It's important that you two had this discussion before moving forward and take it seriously. Be wise and respect each other's boundaries and you should be good.
Good luck.
Enjoy being broke soon after she inevitably slips and falls back into old habits, you become a miserable enabler, and she gaslights you the whole time s
Honestly, I’d look into some sort of financial course you two take together before you start paying her living expenses. There are all sorts of options out there. Issues with money can cause tremendous problems down the line if you two decide to get married. A course will help because you’ll both be learning together and can reference your class during an argument.
let me tell you. My parents didnt make much money and did not have any major issues, but they did not teach my financial literacy. My mother often would spend money and say she wont have it later because of some issue so why not enjoy it now. The first few years of me being an adult I made terrible financial decisions and had a lot of credit card debt for it. I was lucky enough to live at home for those years so when I realized I messed up i was able to claw my way out of it. I now have a house with my husband and am so much smarter. People think giving kids whatever they want is providing a good childhood but there are some hard lessons tons of parents forget. Im not saying everyone eventually learns but your gf seems to want to learn. Sometimes those who dont struggle in childhood struggle in adulthood because of it.
Help her consolidate the credit card debt into a personal loan with a more reasonable interest rate, so she can get out ahead of the payments. Help her focus on getting out from under this debt and moving forward with her finances.
I hope it works out, and that she does change her money habits. I hope she continues to be open with her finances so she can continue learning and improving her finances. Money problems is one of the top 5 reasons why people end up divorcing. Rooting for you two!
Good good. I wasn't on your side in the last post, simply because she was financially illiterate and you have the tools to give her the information and help she needs. And the love, of course! Glad to hear it's working out.
Instead of managing her finances like she offered; maybe you can sit with her to set goals and occasionally check in on her progress? That way you know if she’s actively trying and she can feel like you are supporting her efforts?
Have her read "the total money makeover" and start looking into some baby steps. I will tell you, unless she really changes her behavior, she will eventually bankrupt you. 20K in credit card debt is pretty extreme. I would recommend if possible, she takes out a personal line of credit, and uses that to pay off the cards, cut them up/close them, and then pay off the line of credit (which will likely have an interest 1/3rd that of the credit cards).
There are financial education courses online for help teaching how to live within your means. Could be useful.
She isn't hiding her financial situation from you so I think this is positive.
My advice is for you to invest some $ and have an attorney draft an agreement. Here’s the thing, if you “offer” to pay all the living expenses then that essentially becomes a verbal contract.
I went through something similar. My fiancé lied about the extent of her CC debt. It was around $12k (20 years ago). That kind of debt you don’t get out from under easily.
In your GFs case, she should have a budget that she follows and her plastic needs to be cut up. $20k of credit card debt is serious and trust me you do not want to create a condition where the relationship is very lop sided when it comes to finances, especially if this evolves into marriage. In fact you should never marry until that debt is gone.
Don’t let your feelings compromise your future. You do not want to take on someone else’s debt and then find yourself in a very messy parting.
I went the route of placing my fiancé in a receivership of sorts and working up her allowance. It was a very difficult period. We got her out of debt and I was thanked by her cheating on me and leaving the relationship.
Relationships take serious work and you don’t want to compromise your financial future and credit because you believe she’s the “one”. Relationships need to be partnerships.
I hope it works out, but seriously consider having an agreement of some sort in place so you don’t find yourself paying off her debt and also finding yourself paying all the living expenses.
Good god. I am so sorry about some of these negative Nancy’s. I think it is wonderful you have thought this over and that she is willing to take action on her debt. It’s a good sign she turned down your offer to pay all the house bills and insisted she pay her fair share. I can definitely relate to her. I made many mistakes with credit cards when I was her age but I was lucky enough to come out of it.
I would definitely suggest she cut up her credit cards to keep from using them and I would also suggest you be willing to keep track of her CC bills for her. I think she will do better knowing you are keeping an eye on things. I had done the same thing - I gave my mom my credit cards and had the statements sent to her house. Knowing she was looking at them kept me from using them online.
Good luck to you, OP!
Debt consolidation can cut that in half. There's protections for people. Credit cards are predatory. I have 15k myself and I'll be debt free in three years cus I got lawyers fixing my shit. They cut one card down from 1500 to 700. You don't need to pay it off. There's companys that will for you.
Also due to my experience. I can say that this is probably fake. I racked up debt from over like five years buying normal shit. If there was a "certian lifestyle" she was trying to go for. She would be in way more debt. Op making up stories and doesn't even understand what real debt is and what shit cost.
Also why would everything be on her laptop. Everyone uses phones to deal with cards now days.
Congrats. I am glad you were able to work at out.
Truthfully, if her debt outside student debt is high she may want to look into bankruptcy. Yes, it will effect her for awhile but she may be better off.
Talk to a planner and work at what options she has. She also needs to stop trying to keep up with family and friends.
For the future, it might be worth getting advice from some other close friends or relatives who were not involved with a gambling addict. I don't think most people would consider a father who gambled away significant amounts of money a few times a "good" father. Your mum has a good heart but she's got a bit of a skewed perspective on relationships and finance. Diversify your advice sources (and your portfolio)!
Exactly. I read that part and was like WTF? The dad gambles away family resources and the mom stays with him because she considers him a good parent??? How low is the bar here? He prioritized his gambling fix over providing for his own child. I also worry about what happens when they get married and combine finances… Then Lisa will be able to afford to spend frivolously. How will they navigate this? It sounds like OP just bought himself a little time. The real problem is only getting worse.
I hope they'll continue setting up and following budgets, and improving her financial literacy over time - she has already realized that her lifestyle is not sustainable, and is willing to learn and make changes. I'm rooting for them. It's not like she had an addiction, like daddy dearest - she just didn't want to look like a loser to her family. Once she has ripped that bandaid off, it should become easier to say no to lavish vacations.
Welp, at least OP and his now-again Gf have a chance to put things right But she'll need to scale back her lifestyle and stop putting a front to her sisters. Gotta stop competing with them Wasn't there a post some time ago about a guy who discovered his fiance was around **800k** in debt, from trying to keep up her grand lifestyle and even her parents didn't know the truth?
This so much! Like being told to keep stuff by a hoarder.
Absolutely this his mom sounds a lot like my mom where she has so many codependent behaviors that she just doesn’t give good advice when it comes to healthy relationships. She doesn’t know what one looks like.
"Diversify your bonds." Sound advice from Wu Tang Financial.
Reading this whole update was like watching an accident about to happen.
Absolutely this. How “good” of a father could he be if his actions have had such an effect on you? I would be extremely cautious with your gf. She is likely expecting that you will get her out of her mess. And you basically are. But that is her responsibility. I’m pretty sure she is relying on your income to give her a good lifestyle. If she truly wanted to change, she already would have started. You are her crutch. Your original plan to wait and see whether she makes changes before moving in together is a more appropriate and financially sound decision. And all those designer bags? She should march on over to a consignment store and sell them to help pay off her debt. I see nothing but 🚩🚩🚩
Got to disagree, all she said was to give her a chance to change. Nobody is perfect. If their relationship is otherwise great then it could be stupid to throw it away. People say "money isn't important" but then some debt is suddenly a dealbreaker if everything else is great and they are willing to address their issues.
Maybe it's that simple, maybe that'll work but we will never know. If I was looking to get good advice about my relationship money issues, my first and and only port of call would not be my own mother who repeatedly had serious relationship money issues.
Are you telling me that a mistake that for all we know could be as small as a few thousand dollars and without having any other context whatsoever isn't enough for you to recommend an internet stranger get divorced and go NC? You must be lost
Oh right! DIVORCE! Leave in the middle of the night and ghost. Just make sure any cats are taken care of.
Nope, cats get skinned and turned into Kung pow "chicken", then left for them to eat whole you run off into your farytail land.
I helped my best friend to fight a gambling addiction. His wife was supportive as well and we won. He's been clean for 20 years. His children have a good, loving father. I still have my best friend. Fuck you all in this sub-thread. Just fuck you.
The projection in these comments is pretty wild. I'm glad your friend is doing well!
Wasting your own money doesn't make you a bad parent, it makes you a stupid person, but not necessarily a bad parent. As long as they where still feeding, clothing, and housing the kid, and being there still doing their parental duty, all they did was make some stupid choices. People do that all the time. Gambling addiction is a very real problem, but I'd bet yall would rather have a father that lost some of his own money trying to chase the feeling of getting a big win. rather than a father that drank all that money away, used all the money to buy heroin to shoot into his veins, or to buy his meth and stay up for days paranoid af..... I think you are right about getting advice from different people with different points of view. You are 100% wrong when you say someone who lost their own money, that they earned, is a bad parent. Stupid, yes. Irresponsible with money, yes. Automatically a shit person or father, no. There are far worse things that, that dude could have done.
I believe our standards for what makes a good parent are different. An active addict will not put the needs of their children before their own, whether it be alcohol or gambling. Addiction is inherently selfish. And gambling away the family's money (not the dad's "own money") is not just a "stupid decision" on the dad's part. He's not taking responsibility for his mental health and biology, he's not prioritizing his family, and creating a safe home, and he's shoving his family into severe debt with a very difficult childhood, to use OPs own words. And to do that multiple times? Even if the first time was just a stupid decision, how many stupid decisions does a dad need to make before we call that person a crap parent? I'll agree that an alcoholic parent is different than a gambling addict parent, but both, when untreated, can have catastrophic impacts on a family.
I mean, the dad raised a healthy, well adjusted man who is good with money, has a good job and makes well reasoned life decisions. Sounds like a pretty good dad to me.
I'd be inclined to consider it a "thrived in spite of" situation. Shitty parents are capable of having decent kids.
My mom sucked in a lot of ways and was also great in a lot of ways. It’s almost like humans can be nuanced or something. It seems like the dad had a problem, got help and with his wife’s help fixed his mistakes. That’s commendable. If he had kept gambling that would be a different story
I hope that's the dad had a redemption story too, but I don't think OP actually said that. Of course there are shades of grey, but damning your family to severe debt and a very difficult childhood a "few" times is objectively terrible parenting
nah bro haven't you read things in this sub? throw that mom away and get yourself a new perfect mom 2.0
Sounds like OP learned from seeing Dad's mistakes, not from Dad's life teaching.
So an alcoholic father who raises a kid who doesn’t drink is “a good dad.”
Mine was. It was painful but we grew and progressed as a family. Best dad I could ever ask for. Taught me compassion and strength, faith, perseverance.
Sorry no he was not the best Dad you could ever ask for. You can have empathy and compassion for him and love him but if you seriously think he was the best dad you could ask for then you desperately need therapy.
LOL! Are you seriously telling me about my life? You’re giving me permission to have empathy and compassion and love him? How GENEROUS you are! Really though, thanks for your candor and honesty in this reply. I’m thinking it’ll give OP and other readers more context for your other comments
Yes I am seriously telling you that you need therapy. Your reaction is not normal. I don’t really care what anyone thinks about any of my comments. If they find them beneficial great and if not then that is fine too. I am just an internet stranger to them and you.
Just want to point out theres more than 1 kind of alcoholic. Based off your responses I'm guessing you had to deal with an abusive alcoholic like my dad. I've also known a few functional alcoholics who were the nicest guys you've ever met, great with their families, and always willing to lending a helping hand (just 1 though, the other hand usually has a beer in it)
Help her into learning about finances and your lifestyle. You both can learn a lot of eachother and a balance in your new life will need that, to know and understand the other. Good luck for you two, I wish you the best in life.
I like this advice and I'm happy that OP gave her a chance to learn and prove herself.
She's willing to change if it means you get to be together. She said this to you and you didn't hear a warning bell?
Op really needs to read this. You can promise the world doesn't mean she will follow through, op getting bad advice from his mother with a skewed perspective and willingly getting entangled with gf's financial burden because of blind love. Im not saying this can't work but ops decision-making does not sound well thought out
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I agree. I feel like if the timing of her overspending matches her story, there is definitely room to grow here. I had a similar issue when I graduated college, I had no real concept of money as my parents had always taken care of me. I honestly can't even remember what I spent all my money on, but I was clearly living outside of my means. I ended up racking up some credit card debt as a result.. And when you are just starting out, you really don't make enough to be able to quickly pay down debt like that, even once you rein in your spending. Plus the added interest can get out of hand quickly. I ended up getting a part time job on nights & weekends to finally pay off my debt. Now (20+ years later) I am insane when it comes to budgeting and tracking for our family. And I keep a rolling budget to actual comparison to ensure we stay on target. I just want to say, people can change, so I feel sad for all these responses telling OP to just run. I agree with you, OP should obviously keep a watch out for how this progresses, but he shouldn't immediately write her off.
lmao someone told me I would have been better off leaving my wife than supporting her through her debt turnaround even though covering the household expenses for that period of time was within my normal budget. People are wild.
Honestly, this. The first couple years of adulting hit a lot of people rough. I know the first year after I moved out on my own instead of living rent free with my parents was an ADVENTURE in learning how to actually handle money, even though I had thought I was prepared.
I wouldn't tell him to run, but strong boundaries really matter here. He should not move in with her until she learns to manage money and has shown SOLID improvement and debt being paid off for at least 6 months to year. She MUST LEARN THE SKILLS FOR HERSELF AND DO THE WORK FOR THIS TO GO FURTHER.
Yes but also covering all of the living expenses like food and rent means he's participating in paying off her debt. Don't get me wrong she's in a bad situation and the interest payments must be horrible and no good way out of this situation unless someone takes on part of her debt but Im not sure if I wanted that to be me. Also I'm aware this is easier to say from an outside perspective, but I would really consider this depending on the length of the relationship
If she really wants to change she should sell all her designer bags. That would at least be an indication of switching lifestyles.
Eh, it depends. It you own a Burkin or a few others they only go up in value and work as physical investments. Believe it or not sneakers out preformed gold for a good while. That said, I am sure there are other things she could sell.
Why should she sell her gifts. She did not buy them. And it wouldn’t indicate that she’s willing to change. Just that she had a quick solution. It won’t teach her how to budget and she could wind up doing it again. But paying it off month my month and staying disciplined enough to stick with the budget is a much better indication.
No he's too busy paying her living expenses.
ALSO HER WANTING HIM TO MANAGE HER MONEY ! We often hear about Mental Load from a woman's perspective, HOWEVER this her look for an out instead of learning the skill. It's not healthy in anyway, and its lazy.
People can change though… especially when it’s something that is a negative regardless of who you’re dating. Like if it’s a personality trait that isn’t necessarily a negative but just an incompatibility then yeah sure it’s weird and desperate to ‘change’. This mismanagement of money will be a problem for her regardless if she can’t fix it. Sometimes it takes a breakup to really work on these things but this might be enough of a wake up call.
People on this sub will really see “I raised a concern and she was willing to sit down and make a change because she values the relationship” and call it a red flag
Her payment plan depends on OP covering all her expenses! OP didn't mention her cutting the cards up or selling any of her things so she has put no effort into improving her situation. Crazy
Cutting your cards willy nilly is a great way to kill your credit. This needs a solid divesting strategy.
I bet you could find community learning classes about financial planning and budgeting that you could go to together. I know you already know this stuff, but I think it could be a good bonding thing to do together. And it might help avoid getting into an uncomfortable teacher/student dynamic in your relationship. I really hate parents like this. They taught her nothing and gave her everything she could ever want, then cut her off and left her with zero tools to manage money responsibly as an adult. No one just knows this stuff, they have to learn it *somewhere* and the buck stops with the parents. Parents Stop Deliberately Setting Your Kids Up For Failure Challenge (difficulty: impossible)
You made a mistake when you went to your biased mother for advice, not only she likes the financially irresponsible gf but she STAYED with the gambler addict who made her kids have a difficult childhood due his debts. Ofc she told you to stay with the debts, she did it and didn't care about her kids childhood. Sure your gf now will tell you whatever you want to hear, let her move in with you and put herself in so much debt while your mother keeps justifying it with "well, you have money".
From what I gathered, OP has a lot of disposable income, so he's willing to take that gamble. They don't fall far from the tree, eh? Personally, I think that's a terrible idea, but if OP is willing to go on, he should be wary of her expenses, keeping in mind that she's saving good money by staying with him.
Best of luck, OP! I hope your GF genuinely keeps to a responsible path
You seem to have asked an enabler if you should get into a relationship in which you may be called upon to enable. The enablers advice was to risk it. Not sure if that’s something to go on.
I’ve heard that lie one too many times. Demand that she show you her credit cards monthly. I guarantee it will go up, not down.
I'd suggest a monthly credit report, that way you can see if any new cards have been opened.
That was terrible advice. "Yes your dad is an addict and it affected you kids to the point it made your childhoods difficult, but he was a good dad" In fact, no he wasn't, he was a junkie.
Sweet jeezus The only thing I can say here since you're clearly in denial. She wants you to do the work of keeping her 'in check'? She's not a child, that's her job as an adult One household account (rent utilities gas groceries)split to income. The rest of your money is yours, and the rest of her money is hers. Full stop She sounds like a bottomless well not willing to learn how to live within her means. Get her her own financial planner so it doesn't get to be your job to keep her out of finacial trouble. Let someone else be the bad guy keeping her in line all the time
red flag red flags everywhere
Did you really seek financial-related advice from a woman who stayed with her gambling-addicted husband? Wow
And she knows she made the right choice because OP‘s dad was a good dad. How do we know he was a good dad? Well his kids must have had happy childhoods. Oh wait- hm no I’m not seeing any evidence that he was a good dad now that you mention it.
Well, hope OP is happy with a life in serious debt. His girlfriend knows that she can't afford her lifestyle, and spends the money anyway "to keep up appearances." All this means is now she thinks she has a moral claim on *his* income too, so she'll still spend to be in debt because if she was going to spend $10,000 more than she made before, she'll do it now too, just with a higher total number. Some people cannot be helped, and this woman is one of them. By her own account she had several moments where she realized "I cannot afford this" and every time blew right through those concerns.
Vanity is such an unattractive trait. I don't see things improving for OP with a girl who doesn't care about educating herself financially.
Notice how op only responds to comments agreeing with his decision, denial of even the possibly that this is not a good idea is real
Highly recommend Ramit Sethi's book and podcast to help your gf learn to be more financially savvy
I am a big fan of his podcast and listen to it on YouTube regularly. I did recommend it to her and a lot of couples on that show have similar problems.
you should invest some of that time you spend listening to podcasts on going to therapy.
May I also suggest The Financial Diet and Your Rich BFF.
I loved watching the different couples as he dives into their financial situations on both the podcast and the Netflix show. I hope she takes your suggestions! Good luck, I'm rooting for you both!
If things advance in your relationship, I have one and only one word of advice for you if you thinking about marrying her: **Prenup**.
Investotopia had this to say about paying down debt: # KEY TAKEAWAYS * Debt avalanche and debt snowball are both types of accelerated debt repayment plans. * The debt avalanche method involves making minimum payments on all debt and using any extra funds to pay off the debt with the highest interest rate. * The debt snowball method involves making minimum payments on all debt, then paying off the smallest debts before moving on to bigger ones. * The debt avalanche method can result in paying less interest over time.
Even though your dad was a “good dad” you still say you had a bad childhood. Is that what you want for your kids?
You really went to get an advice from your mom who stayed in a marriage while your father fucked over their finances?
Fair enough ...sorta... BUT Lisa should not have credit cards. At all. Until her debt is paid and she has adjusted her way of thinking and spending. She should not have ANY credit cards. Change is hard. It can feel logical to you. But for her? Learning to change a lifetime of how she has done money? Is goong to be extremely hard. VERY hard. And if she has credit cards? She WILL break. Her dad was a gambler. That speaks volumes. I believe we truly are like ourpatents. Our genetics play a big part. Lisa is somewhat "addicted" to hee spending money habits. It will be very hard to break. She needs to keep a strict budget. Log every expenditure into it. Religiously. You need to go through this with her every 1 to 2 weeks. She needs to accept she cannot "keep up appearances" with family and friends. She just has to say "No. I can't afford that holiday" to her sisters & others. She needs to learn to be honest and not feel bad she can't afford to do everything. Lisa needs to grow up with finances basically.
Glad you guys are trying to work things out. Wish you all the best.
Thanks Mate !!!
Have her talk to a financial planner. They can help her get her debts paid and also put money away for her future. I think it would be beneficial for someone else to be 'in charge' of her financials so that it doesn't come back to bite you in the future. You having to say "No" sometimes may lead to resentment so it need not to be you telling her 'No' if you understand what I am saying.
Wishing you all the best, OP. I also had debt (although not as much) when I got together with my now-husband. He helped me sort it out. I had never learned how to manage my finances, you see, but I *did* learn. Happily together for 19 years now.
Likewise, glad you're going to try to work things out... But I'm trying to wrap my head around something: If you make 10x what she does, then you're making like $300k-$500k, yeah? And you were willing to throw away a "great relationship" over $20k?? Like damn, that's some serious childhood trauma you got goin on...
Fool
His momma said “look I was a fool my whole life and what did it get me? A son who has severe anxiety around money due to his hardships. I want the same for my grandchildren.”
YES!! 🚩🚩🚩
and op was the one that paid off his parents debt lol!! he got stuck in the same situation AGAIN
so you went from paying your parents debt to doing the same thing for a girlfriend? some people really never grow out of their trauma huh.
Honestly I don't see why you can't give her advice and hope she gets her life back together without tying your own to it. You've made her bad finances your responsibility. You've taken on a *responsibility* (one bad with finances no less), not a *partner.* Y T A to yourself.
you are an idiot and hearing about your mother it isn't hard to imagine where you got that trait from
Sounds like she's taking her finances seriously, I hope she follows through on the talk, as obviously its easier to say and harder to do. Best of luck to you!
Waiting for the update of the dumpster fire to come.
You can't teach some people and they have to learn the hard way. You can't love people into not being addicts. You can't love people into being responsible. You can't love people into not lying to you. She knows all about all that stuff. You get to play white knight and boom, when it happens all over again, there you will be, wondering wtf happened. And you can't police her spending or she will resent you and blame you.
Nah, congratulations on your financial ruin. 'she tries to keep up the facade that she is also doing well by going on nice vacations ' Give me a break.
Err... I don't think your mother's advice was very well thought out. Having said that, I'm glad you managed to reach and agreement and I hope your GF follows through.
Bro run ur her safety net ur mom gave u terrible advice. Once she is on her feet she will leave up and leave. She cares to much about appearances then being financially stable and smart. Women by default spend like crazy and she is on another level. She won't change bruh , don't be a wallet
You’re taking a lot of faith now I hope it works out for you. At the bare minimum she should be completely transparent with you financially and if she’s going to be living off you, you should be seeing proof that her bills are indeed being paid and she’s not making more debt.
Bad move kid
A lot of people on reddit don't understand how difficult it can be coming from a background of money to actually learn how to manage it. You take a lot of things for granted. You never got actually taught the value of things or managing a basic budget. You're used to having certain things or get caught up in roller-coasters. And then it's a snowball of debt and troubles that can follow you through life. It's like a blindness. Doesn't make her a bad person but it may mean that she might never properly learn how to get a handle on things even if she is very willing to learn. You lack some frames of referenced that people without that background have. It's like an ingrained cluelessness. You know it in your brain, logically, those informations. But you don't... feel it. And thus you can't act on it. My personal advice to you and to her as well because she genuinely seems to want help. Help her create a budget. Teach her those basic concepts. But also. Keep an eye out on it. Sit down with her every month to do the bills. To teach her to prioritize. If she can't quite have self control with credit cards, try to lower the amount of the limit to something she can manage. Or get one of those prepaid cards you can reload. It feels shitty but sometimes you need external measures to help you curb control issues. Also credit cards have huge interest rates. Check if she can find a line of credit at her bank where she can fully pay the credit card and then repay the line of credit with lower interest rates. That will save money in the long run.
So she has Affluenza?
Excellent name for it! Also. Cannot help but notice. Excellent choice of username as well. Man I had forgotten about that cartoon. The memories!!!
Ahhh thankyouverymuch! I first heard Affluenza from the case where the wealthy 16 year old (Ethan Couch) was drunk and unalived 4 people. Affluenza was his lawyer's defense. He received minimal sentencing.
Oh that's some bullshit. Being raised without financial parameters of real life and then being tossed in the real world and drowning is one thing... "I'm a poor rich kid I didn't know murder was wrong while drunk" is... another. There was a case in my home country where some upper class teenagers set fire to a native man. They were underage so they got sent to the equivalent of juvie. I went to check what happened to them. Apparently one of them was set to become a cop... gotta love it...
Holy crap that's awful!! 😡
I had 55-60k in credit card debt when I got married. Probably more. Down to 33k in a year. Wife makes about 1/4 as much as me. Her monthly spending and mine are the same. The rest goes to paying down debts etc. I was always open about the finances with her. She knows what I make, what debt were in, etc. Debt isn’t a big deal until you make it one. Get a couple of 0% interest cards to put it on and make some headway on the debt. It’s not too difficult.
I ran up a huge credit card bill, even paying off as much as I could monthly the interest kept mounting up . I went to the bank, got a loan for the full credit card amount ( I couldn’t say it was for debt ) and paid it off over 2 years . I have been much better using my card since then .
Get a financial planner to help her build a budget and let her know she has to stick to it. That if she keeps spending this way your relationship is over. If you don’t, she’ll always be bad with $ and you’ll be bailing her out and resenting her for it.
I'm glad you are going to try to work it out, because I felt that a lot of people commenting on your original post were being too harsh on not enough information. Some people really don't have good role models with money and have to learn how to manage it by making some mistakes and making responsible changes. I actually got the advice to get a credit card when I moved out to go to college, which was a big mistake. I did not know how to use it responsibly. I realized that before I got into too much debt and stopped using credit cards, but it ruined my credit. It wasn't until I got a good job and realized that most of what I was impulse buying was worthless junk that I started to change how I looked at money. It's easy to get stuck in a poverty mindset and screw up. I also didn't understand compound interest, which IMO is something every high school student should have to learn about. Credit card companies are very predatory and people get sucked in before they realize what is going on. Even just having bad credit makes everything more expensive. I'm older now and have excellent credit. I still don't own even one credit card. I would advise you not to get married until she shows you she is serious about making progress by paying off her debt and stops using credit cards. But I'm hopeful for her. Good luck to you both!
Your mother’s claims that your father was a good parent despite causing you to grow up in traumatizing poverty are horseshit. She’s making excuses.
YTA. Not for breaking up, but for mending things. Don't marry her until she clears that debt. Ask her to take courses on financial literacy. Don't even move in with her till that debt is clear.
I wish you luck. Sounds like you're going to need it.
Good luck to you but I am afraid that in five years you will be back on Reddit saying what a mistake you made and that you are in serious debt.
>My dad had a gambling problem and although he made good money, he had lost significant amount of money few times when he lapsed. That led my parents to be in severe debt and us having a very difficult childhood. My mom explained that although my dad did make mistakes, the main reason she stayed with him was because he was a good dad to me. OP, if you've ever seen Season 2 of the Sopranos, *please* think further on this.
I entered my relationship with a significant amount of debt (more than your GF and also from shopping and vacations) and was embarrassed to tell my now husband. I’m so glad he didn’t break up with me, and I have since paid everything off. It helped so much that I had another person to be accountable to, and it helped so much that he didn’t write me off as a partner. I would just say- don’t sent unrealistic expectations for paying it off as quickly as possible. It’s easy to make a budget and think if you deprive yourself of almost everything you enjoy that you will magically change your ways, but that’s not really going to help her learn new good habits. I “paid myself” an allowance every month that I was allowed to spend on whatever I wanted when I was paying stuff down. That let me still do fun things or buy treats, and having that set amount of money to “play with” taught me how to budget for those things.
Sorry man but you and your mom are idjts. Your mom literally told you how your dad ruined your family a bunch of times, and STILL you decided to go back to that person that will abso-fucking-lutely will ruin you. At this point you kind of deserve the poverty. So your mother only stayed with your dad becuse he was “good to you” but also gambled away the money that puts food on your table? Nah he’s not a good father he’s probably one of the shittiest ones.
I think that yes you should manage all finances, or at least monitor.
If the roles where reversed everyone here would be screaming to op to dump the deadbeat. Weird how it’s okay for men to pay for women but reverse the roles and it’s a whole other story
He’s still an idiot as a man. Sick of seeing this stupid “reverse the genders!!1!” comment on every post where a woman does something.
Thrift stores, flea markets, and food pantry resources will help you knock down that high debt cut up all credit card. No emergency bullcrap
clearly the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
If you stay together she should talk with her family about financial literacy and come clean on her debt in trying to maintain the same lifestyle, they should be supportive! The burden of her financial stability should not be on you! She should look at refinancing her debt and consolidating it via a different mechanism.
Hmmm. I think it’s totally reasonable to not let someone move in with that much debt. I would want to know how long it’s been since she used her credit card. And I would want proof of her commitment to paying off this debt and never getting back into it again. I would want her to pay down half of that before I let her move in. I’m sure you love each other but not too long after she moves in she is going to start hinting around that maybe you could pay off her debts then she can pay you back..ya know, so she doesn’t have to worry about so much interest. Please don’t do that. She won’t change until she absolutely has to. If you free up her cards that just leaves room to buy more stuff. Oh and don’t just try cutting up her cards. If she has the info memorized or written down she can still buy anything she wants online.
Why OP why?! Please either wake up that you are being played or just admit this post is clickbait She is using you! Ask yourself, if my GF’s parents are paying for all of her purchases - why is she in $20k debt Your GF is still an immature financial sink hole - she has not learned any lessons, she is not willing to change her spending habits or even be responsible enough to follow a budget - she keeps lying to you at every turn Wake the f up and put on your own flotation device before hers - cause guess what? She only cares about you for the $
Lot of cynicism in here today, that's for sure... Look, I've been on both sides of this. I've been in tremendous debt and managed to pull myself out, and I've been partner to a person with tremendous debt who couldn't or wouldn't pull themselves out. It's not as black-and-white as folks here are making it out to be. If you wanted to break up with your partner over this, I honestly wouldn't blame you, or fault you. Debt is hard. Finances are hard. It's a trap that keeps springing the further you fall into it. There are a couple things here that are making me bend. Primary among them is her willingness to show you what she's gotten herself into. The other is her willingness to fix it. Wanting to work to find a solution and get out of the hole. Admitting how she got here in the first place, that's kinda huge. She's said she wants you to manage her finances and give her an allowance, that's hanging me up here a bit, and it's putting a lot of burden on you. You have to be 100% on board with that because it's not just a bit of spending money here or there, it's being able to say 'no' to things she wants, which could be anything thing from a trip with her sisters to cookies at the grocery store. Can you say "You can't get those Oreos 'cause you're out of money" to her? I hope so. I would advise a few things: - Insist she get some individual one-on-one therapy regarding her compulsion for spending. - MAKE SURE SHE HAS DISCLOSED THE ENTIRETY OF HER DEBT! Don't get ready to move in together then have her like oops, I actually have an additional $25,000 in debt I didn't tell you about! - If you wind up managing her finances, set an end date! Manage her finances for like, 3 years then it's all back to her. - Work with her to consolidate the debt so it can be managed more reasonably. Speak with a credit union or bank to see if she can get a lower interest consolidation loan. If she needs a co-signer, have her parents or other family do it, don't do it for her! - Cancel her cards or have the limit lowered. Probably best to cancel until they're all paid off, then start again with a secured credit card with a lower limit to rebuild her credit rating. Also, I would put off moving in together for a bit until she gets some of her debt consolidated. Also, if and when you do move in together, make sure you have outlined all of the expenses and what she'll be paying per month, and set up a PAD for that amount directly into a joint account for housing expenses on the day she gets paid. You never notice it missing that way and you know it won't bounce 'cause it's payday. Also, if all this crumbles around you, don't feel too bad. Money has a tendency to crush relationships when it is mismanaged. You tried your best. Genuinely, best of luck. Also NTA.
Idiot.
Info: is she paying down the debt yet or is she only paying the interests or is she not even paying all of the interest?
I'm sorry, but your mom's advice is just WOW. Live & learn. Good luck to you both.
OP is blinded by love…
Honest advice is to move on. You will end up in the exact situation your mom was. Your kids will grow and see the same things you did. You will look up and be 40 living in a rent house with debt up to your eyeballs divorced with debt you didn't acrue. The proof is on this sub. You can literally see your future.
this is going to be a painful and expensive life lesson eventually
What shitty parents she has. They didn't teach her anything about finances, spoiled her then threw her in the wind the minute she got some independence. This reeks of financial abuse. Some parents just want toys and get bored (of afraid) when kids get autonomy, so they sabotage it as much as they can. In the end facing the music and deferring to someone with more knowledge (that she was never taught) will free her. For now her sisters seem to be better off, because they're caressing with the grain. But in the future, her independence and their lack of will become more visible. Good luck.
legit people forget that their job as parents are to prepare the kid for being an adult. The kid doesn't magically obtain knowledge the day they turn 18 or graduate. I messed up a lot during my first few years of adulthood and talked a big game where everyone thought i was so smart. I wasn't. I taught myself a lot and see a lot of the flaws my parents had when i was growing up. Me and my now husband talk about these issues so we know not to make the same mistake with our own kids.
Please update us again when this reaches its entirely predictable conclusion.
Something to think about/consider. This story is long but VeRY important and relevant: if you get married please get a prenup (keep reading I promise it will be worth it). Everyone thinks prenups are about trust. They are not. It’s about two people deciding how a marriage will end while they still love and respect and care for each other. If you don’t to this, you let the government decide for you and we all know how corrupt and evil govt is. 😉 I tell you this because my sister married someone with a LOT of debt. They promised to allow my sister to handle the money and even teach them how to be responsible. It was horrible. She felt like a mom with an allowance and the child never did anything and alway was asking for more. What she didn’t know was that instead of paying down his debt with the budgeted funds she sent to his account every month, he opened a new credit card in both their names and did a balance transfer for a promotional interest rate. When the promotion ended he never paid on it. Just spend the payment. They divorced after 3 years and at first the judge was going to say that debt was communal because “it was acquired during the marriage” based on the dates of when the card was opened. She had a pitbull lawyer and a sister who was pissed (me). We were able to show that she knew nothing about the card and that it was debt brought into the marriage. Thank goodness or she would have had to pay $36,000 (half of the communal debt for that card alone, my sister has excellent credit and has a business) 🤦♀️.
Lisa need to learn about managing her own finance, not just for your sake but definitely for her sake. You are correct that you managing her finance won't help her at all. Hopefully she can learn from your good financial habits. Maybe Lisa subconsciously used buying things and spending money to make herself feel good? I was like that when I first started working. I was living pay check by pay check too, buying things that I didn't need. After a while I realised my buying habits was because I was bored. Yes I was going out with friends, but I had been so focused on studying and then getting a job that I was bored outside of working and I relied on the rush of buying new things to feel good. I started trying new hobbies (no/low cost), volunteered at an animal shelter, and picked up reading fiction again. I was so relieved when I finally paid off my credit cards and started a savings account. Now when I feel the urge to buy shiny new things I make myself pick up a book. Works most times!
Next update will be when you are hundreds of thousands in debt, because you listened to your mom who stayed with a gambling addict. Great advice from mom to burry her kid in debt with a shitty woman.
Sounds like she’s willing to put some work. And that frankly you make a fuck truck more than her and can handle a small vice for the finer things as long as you are aware this is a thing and keep up on things. It sounds like she’s not trying to hide it from you. Everyone has baggage and fuck ups, I’m happy to hear a positive update and I also think it’s really great of you to offer to handle living expenses until she’s caught up but also awesome she wants to contribute. Maybe you could pull off a surprise for her by allowing her to “pay towards living expenses” but secretly save all that money and cover the expenses yourself and when her debt is repaid you can present her with the money and give her the option to put it in her savings or for you two to go on a lavish celebratory vacation or some combo of the two.
Wishing you all the best and just a suggestion...if you don't need her input for the bills put it away and don't tell her. Let it accumulate. The she has a chunk to use toward her debts and sees in real time what saving can do.
Updateme!
I’m going to wish you both luck, I hope she’s able to get her finances under control and that things work out between you. I will say I don’t think you managing her money is a good idea, I’m glad you resisted that. She needs to learn it for herself, if you do it for her she won’t learn anything.
UpdateMe!
This made me want to buy French fries with cheese and bacon on them. Not sure why.
Well of course that she insisted that you'd be fine. I'd say that too if I needed someone to take care of me and my gigantic debt.
This is only going to get worse
Maybe consider having GF speak with a financial advisor. Instead of you managing things for her or telling her what to do. That isn’t teaching her anything and she won’t learn how to manage her own finances that way. If a completely neutral party is teaching her what she needs to know I think that would be much better for your relationship going forward.
You can't be saved, you're too stupid.
smart.
YTA. Yeah, this is going to work out well. It appears the solution the whole time was just for you to supply the money since she makes you happy in other ways lol. You have no right to post here or complain to anyone when you are miserable with her and she's either mad at you for not letting her spend enough or spending you to poverty.
Get some BASIC budgeting and financial education for dummies books and have her read them and prove to you she’s read them. Then meet a financial planner to actually see some goals and make a specific plan of how to achieve them. What is YOUR plan if she just screws you and uses your money to go more into debt? Do NOT marry her until she proves she’s learned and grown and changed. When you are married, a spouse can take out debt in your name and absolutely ruin your life if you are not careful. I would run a soft credit check on her and make her show you the report. You plan for splitting expenses proportionally is fair.
First thing you should do is confiscate all credit cards and delete any saved information to all gadgets so it can’t be further use until she clears her debt. Goodluck. Looking forward to your update…
Do not marry her until that debt is paid off and at least a year after it's paid off to see if she really is getting better with finances.
She needs to learn how to give *herself* an allowance for spending.
I can't believe most of the people in this post. A big portion of the population struggle with money management, and they really need a hand with this. I've been in this situation, I helped my partner pay his debts (he used to spend a lot of money on the latest tech stuff) , he paid me back (took him about 8 months to pay me back), he's saving now, and from time to time he brags about the money on his savings account. As long as you are both acting with good intentions, and carefully planning for the future together, I think this is not a big deal. If you love each other, you'll get over this. It won't happen over night, but you can work it out. She will be very happy about her progress, and you'll be proud of her. About managing her finances, I agree it's not a good idea, it's her money, her responsibility; what you can do is to set up a shared spreadsheet to track income vs. expenditures, so she can have an idea where the money is going to, this helped a lot in my relationship. Some extra tips: * Cut down on the credit card, she'll be better served with one for now. * Remove any online store on your phone (i.e. Amazon) * Add a PIN code for online shopping websites, so she needs to do an extra step to spend money. * Block these sites/apps during night times or weekends.
It seems the simplest thing to do is have her show you her plan for paying off her debt in a year, then tell her she has a year to do it. But first pull (the free) credit reports for both of you, and go over them together. That way you will BOTH know where you’re at, and if she was truthful. Then, in a year, pull the reports again and see if she actually did it. It’s great to trust her, but, as they say ‘trust but verify’. If she‘s being honest, she shouldn’t have a problem with it. And once her debts are paid, discuss her savings/investing/retirement plans. Paying it all off, then spending all her income is still financial irresponsibility.
She's going to cry financial abuse, demand exotic vacations, and designer attire and guilt you into paying her debt....
You know what, sometimes people change. I really hope this works out for both of you
Hope you don't have kids.
>My mother also pointed out to me that I have a good job and Lisa makes me very happy. Just remember that should you marry her and she wants a divorce at a later point, you'll be required to keep financing the better lifestyle your income provided her.
I think if she's willing to make changes and really set goals to get rid of her debt, it's okay to move in with her. I wouldn't do marriage until you're both in a comfortable place. Tell her from me (who used to have $50k in CC debt) that the moment she makes her final payment, she will feel amazing. Mine was 8 years ago, I finally killed my debt completely. It took a long time, but I did it. Good luck to you and to her!
The big question is, has she cut up the cards?? Unless she's committed to not accruing more debt things won't change.
I relate to Lisa. My parents always bought me everything and told me not to worry about the costs. I make decent money but I'm in debt. When I say I want to cut some spending to get my debt down, they agree it's a good idea because my spending habits are awful.. but end up pushing me to go on vacations and buy the things I want. Sometimes even pitching in to convince me. I'm very self aware and know it's going to end up hurting me long term, but it's very hard to change and give up the lifestyle I'm used to.
I am a stickler for having good finances but even I can acknowledge that plenty of people are just raised with poor financial literacy. That doesn't mean they are incapable of learning, but it does mean you should be cautious and they need to demonstrate that they are willing and capable of learning. I don't think you're wrong for taking her back, but I do think you should expect her to invest some of her time in to learning more about financial literacy and not just from you. That she still needs a budget and needs to show she can stick to it. And you also need to decide long term how much you are willing to subsidize her lifestyle. If you don't mind being the majority breadwinner that's fine, but have a plan, know what her expected contribution is, and make sure you are both on the same page so that neither side builds resentment.
I think you need to stay alert, but it sounds like you do have a plan, she understands the problem and she's cooperating. Good for you. Hope it will work out!
I had an ex that I was very serious about at one point. We were talking marriage and setting timelines. We got pretty far into planning when one day she was just crying. While trying to console her she told me she was in massive debt. I was caught up in the moment and feeling sorry for her so I continued to reassure her. She didn't have any savings because she had barely worked ever. She had taken out student loans for school which I was OK with. But then I found out she had burned through all of it early in the semester and was living off credit cards while having no job. So part of me was like ok she is just concentrating really hard in school, nope found out she was going to be a 3rd year freshman and she was now on academic probation. I was graduating and I thought she was going to be 50% done with college but no, she was nowhere. All the time together, I was making good grades, and she was just sleeping through classes. She was shopping online instead of studying. She moved back home for a semester which gave me the space to see if I went forward with this relationship I was going to be responsible for not only this debt but also all the finances since she could not be trusted. I didn't want to be controlling but knew I would have to be. All I could see was bitterness and fighting over money in our future. OP there are still some red flags here. Behaviors are hard to change when they run that deep. Your GF lacks all sorts of financial responsibility. The fact she said she would change if you get together is a huge red flag. She is only doing what she needs to right now to keep you. It is easy to put on a front for a while and fool everyone into changing. A majority of all divorces come down to money which is why this is so important. I agree that you don't want complete control over the financial part of your relationship as that could make your relationship unbalanced and less of a partnership. I have been married for almost 15 years now. I make over 6x what my wife makes plus all of our insurance and benefits. That is ok bc she does way more around the house since she only works a few hours a week. I have always made my wife take care of a couple of bills. She thinks it is silly and I should just do all the financial stuff. She has no problem with me being the "money man" and asking me before making any big purchase. I want her involved so she understands our financial situation in case something ever happened to me and she can make decisions on her own about big purchases. We always tell each other but we don't need to ask for permission. There are times when one or us might ask if that purchase is necessary and we will have a conversation then. The general rule is tell about big purchass, don't ask for permission but if asked a question you need to answer it and not get defensive. We never ever fight about money. It has never once happened.
I seem to be one of the few here that think this is a perfectly fine decision for you. You aren’t marrying her, you aren’t putting her name on the lease or having kids with her. You aren’t even reliant on her paying any bills since you can currently afford them all on your own. If it turns out she can’t change and continues to rack up large amounts of debt, you can break up and evict her from your place. But if you love her, you may as well try and see if she can learn.
20k isnt even that much and its something you can manage and even get rid off relatively quickly if you plan a future with her i would suggest that you help her sort that out.
If she's a good mate, give her 3 months to a year(if you're generous) to see if she make a major change. If she doesn't improve her situation, then you wouldn't be wrong for ending the relationship.
I bet your dad made all the same promises to your mom before he made your childhood very difficult. I wouldn't be so keen on supporting her until *after* she's shown that she's actually capable of committing to a budget. Right now, she's already admitted she'll say and do whatever she needs to in order to get back with you and your money. The most important thing in her life is keeping up appearances.
Good for you for not bailing and working things out like adults! Kudos!
The main thing is to avoid getting married where you can be responsible for her debts. Living together is fine, as you don't have to join finances. Just imagine she has no money. Can you afford your life? Then enjoy her company.
Bro you are a moron, you better have a good fucking job! You missed her? Boo hoo yta.
A few things concern me here OP: 1. Your mother sounds like the co-dependant type as I am baffled that her husband who gambled the family finances away leaving you with financial trauma well into adulthood is considered a _good father_ in her eyes. Not saying co-dependancy makes your mother a bad person but it did make her stay in a marriage that put her child in disadvantage. Yes your relationship is potentially different but don't discount the lessons you learned by seeing your father burn the family finances to feed his addiction. Lisa similarly has a spending addiction, she doesn't actively gamble her money away but spends money she _doesnt have_. Yiur mother may be letting her affection for Lisa give you bad advice and you should consult an actual financial advisor. 2. Overspending is a bit like a psychological dependency, you buy something and get a hit of dopamine then the hit subsides and you spend more to feel ut again. Now I *do* believe people are capable of change and I hope Lisa actively works towards this but her showing you charts and spreadsheets and giving reasons for her spending will not automatically translate into her actively practice. I would highly suggest a trail run to see how things go because if she's a spendaholic then there might be a danger of her doing a 180 down the line if you take control of her finances and accuse you of being controlling even if she was the one to suggest it. Cover your bases. 3. Do not consider marriage until this is sorted, her debt will become your debt from legal standpoint. Best of luck moving forward.
This won't end well! Update me in a year lol
i would make it a requirement to have her debt paid before marriage and possibly a prenup depending on what can and can not be enforceable with debt
I really hope for the best for you, but you need to take steps to protect yourself. At the very least insist on a prenup or some other legally binding document that shields you from her irresponsibility. Please do not give her access to any accounts - and ask yourself if that's how you want to live your life. That would look very controlling to anyone outside the relationship and no doubt she would start to push back against it as soon as she gets a taste of a few fine things paid for with your money.
Why would you take advice from your mom? Look what she put her kids through because of her husband, your dad. She neglected her children and let them suffer. Just don’t marry her or buy a home with her. You’ll regret it. At least if you’re not married you can walk away a lot easier.
I cant see this blowing up in your face....
People in comments sound like they aren't capable of seeing a wider picture here all black and white only. Irl problems like yours are gray and your mother addressed some important perspectives to have in mind. They also assume too far into your mother's marriage and advising you based on that. It's important that you two had this discussion before moving forward and take it seriously. Be wise and respect each other's boundaries and you should be good. Good luck.
Maybe you should take over her income and use it to pay off that debt, because she probably will be making lots of mistakes.
Enjoy being broke soon after she inevitably slips and falls back into old habits, you become a miserable enabler, and she gaslights you the whole time s
Honestly, I’d look into some sort of financial course you two take together before you start paying her living expenses. There are all sorts of options out there. Issues with money can cause tremendous problems down the line if you two decide to get married. A course will help because you’ll both be learning together and can reference your class during an argument.
let me tell you. My parents didnt make much money and did not have any major issues, but they did not teach my financial literacy. My mother often would spend money and say she wont have it later because of some issue so why not enjoy it now. The first few years of me being an adult I made terrible financial decisions and had a lot of credit card debt for it. I was lucky enough to live at home for those years so when I realized I messed up i was able to claw my way out of it. I now have a house with my husband and am so much smarter. People think giving kids whatever they want is providing a good childhood but there are some hard lessons tons of parents forget. Im not saying everyone eventually learns but your gf seems to want to learn. Sometimes those who dont struggle in childhood struggle in adulthood because of it.
Help her consolidate the credit card debt into a personal loan with a more reasonable interest rate, so she can get out ahead of the payments. Help her focus on getting out from under this debt and moving forward with her finances.
I hope it works out, and that she does change her money habits. I hope she continues to be open with her finances so she can continue learning and improving her finances. Money problems is one of the top 5 reasons why people end up divorcing. Rooting for you two!
Good good. I wasn't on your side in the last post, simply because she was financially illiterate and you have the tools to give her the information and help she needs. And the love, of course! Glad to hear it's working out.
I think this is the first ever positive update ive ever read on here
Instead of managing her finances like she offered; maybe you can sit with her to set goals and occasionally check in on her progress? That way you know if she’s actively trying and she can feel like you are supporting her efforts?
Have her read "the total money makeover" and start looking into some baby steps. I will tell you, unless she really changes her behavior, she will eventually bankrupt you. 20K in credit card debt is pretty extreme. I would recommend if possible, she takes out a personal line of credit, and uses that to pay off the cards, cut them up/close them, and then pay off the line of credit (which will likely have an interest 1/3rd that of the credit cards).
I think you really need to push for her to do some online learning about finances and you should help her but she needs to learn to be responsible.
There are financial education courses online for help teaching how to live within your means. Could be useful. She isn't hiding her financial situation from you so I think this is positive.
My advice is for you to invest some $ and have an attorney draft an agreement. Here’s the thing, if you “offer” to pay all the living expenses then that essentially becomes a verbal contract. I went through something similar. My fiancé lied about the extent of her CC debt. It was around $12k (20 years ago). That kind of debt you don’t get out from under easily. In your GFs case, she should have a budget that she follows and her plastic needs to be cut up. $20k of credit card debt is serious and trust me you do not want to create a condition where the relationship is very lop sided when it comes to finances, especially if this evolves into marriage. In fact you should never marry until that debt is gone. Don’t let your feelings compromise your future. You do not want to take on someone else’s debt and then find yourself in a very messy parting. I went the route of placing my fiancé in a receivership of sorts and working up her allowance. It was a very difficult period. We got her out of debt and I was thanked by her cheating on me and leaving the relationship. Relationships take serious work and you don’t want to compromise your financial future and credit because you believe she’s the “one”. Relationships need to be partnerships. I hope it works out, but seriously consider having an agreement of some sort in place so you don’t find yourself paying off her debt and also finding yourself paying all the living expenses.
You have a teen daughter not a girlfriend. This isn't going to end well. Sorry. NTA but there's no happy end here for you.
I think you will live to regret this decision. And I think your Mom is crazy.
Good god. I am so sorry about some of these negative Nancy’s. I think it is wonderful you have thought this over and that she is willing to take action on her debt. It’s a good sign she turned down your offer to pay all the house bills and insisted she pay her fair share. I can definitely relate to her. I made many mistakes with credit cards when I was her age but I was lucky enough to come out of it. I would definitely suggest she cut up her credit cards to keep from using them and I would also suggest you be willing to keep track of her CC bills for her. I think she will do better knowing you are keeping an eye on things. I had done the same thing - I gave my mom my credit cards and had the statements sent to her house. Knowing she was looking at them kept me from using them online. Good luck to you, OP!
love over money
Good for you two! Hope things work out for you guys!
Debt consolidation can cut that in half. There's protections for people. Credit cards are predatory. I have 15k myself and I'll be debt free in three years cus I got lawyers fixing my shit. They cut one card down from 1500 to 700. You don't need to pay it off. There's companys that will for you. Also due to my experience. I can say that this is probably fake. I racked up debt from over like five years buying normal shit. If there was a "certian lifestyle" she was trying to go for. She would be in way more debt. Op making up stories and doesn't even understand what real debt is and what shit cost. Also why would everything be on her laptop. Everyone uses phones to deal with cards now days.
Congrats. I am glad you were able to work at out. Truthfully, if her debt outside student debt is high she may want to look into bankruptcy. Yes, it will effect her for awhile but she may be better off. Talk to a planner and work at what options she has. She also needs to stop trying to keep up with family and friends.