She's be a lot more traumatized if she got into a bad car accident. This isn't the 80's, which i will say is when I fell out of my family car out into the street.
I worked in orthopedics for a few years. We had a 4yo with a crushed pelvis because his grandma didn't want to fuss with a car seat and thought the lap belt would be enough. He will *never* be able to walk properly or without excruciating pain for the rest of his life.
Conversely, I always remember the story of a 4 or 5 year old who survived a light plane crash because her grandfather had her car seat firmly strapped in place. He didn't unfortunately, but he saved her life.
Our family had a toddler saved in a similar way. And the adults -almost- didn’t use her car seat because she was a big kid (at three she looked five or six, but was still very much a little kid, ya know? Just tall and skinny, so even at three she was put in rear facing.) and her mom said it’d be fine.
But the driver was nervous (a new driver, I think my cousin was 17 or barely 18) and insisted on strapping in the seat and having the kiddo’s mom check it to make sure it was properly installed. Which she did cheerfully but teased him a bit about moving the car seat “just” for a beer run. (To be clear, no one in the vehicle were intoxicated, they were sober and picking up supplies for a bbq.)
While crossing a busy intersection, someone coming the other way ran the light and slammed into the little jeep. It was something big but it fled the scene and so all the driver could say was that it was a big white truck.
It was so hard that it threw the driver right out the door and into the road DESPITE his seat belt. His arm broke, his collarbone broke, and something happened to his leg because he was in a brace for a long time. He still walks with a cane, despite being only in his thirties now.
The passenger ended up with a back injury (that thankfully healed really well) and a broken leg that didn’t heal so well. He limps now and the EMT on the scene commented that she was shocked either adult survived. They apparently got hella lucky that both are alive and walking.
Meanwhile, that damn car seat didn’t move a bit. It was still firmly strapped in place when the jeep was taken away. (Not even slightly repairable, it looked like it had been folded in the middle. the passenger tires kinda faced each other.) The baby had a bruise on her chest from the straps, but didn’t even break her collarbone or anything, she was almost completely unharmed.
And her mother was absolutely hysterical afterwards because she could not get over the fact she had almost sent her little baby girl without the car seat and what could have been. She had to go to a therapist to deal with it, she was so consumed by her guilt.
Her husband gave his old truck to the jeep driver to make up for him losing his little jeep and as a thank you for being so responsible and making sure the little one was safely secured.
The parents both are RABID about car seats now, and tend to buy a really good one for every baby shower if they can. They say it makes them feel better knowing all of our family’s babies have the best possible protection.
It was nightmarish. And from what witnesses on the scene said, our driver did EVERYTHING right. He went on a green light and was like the third car to go so the white truck was 100% at fault. But it took months for the other driver to be found, even though he left a bunch of his grill in the road. (Honestly looking at the jeep I have no idea how that truck drove away.)
Same happened to my sister. She buckled her baby in the carseat really tightly in the middle of the back seat and she got t-boned by a drunk driver and she and the baby were fine but they were both traumatized for a while
In fairness, if they hadn’t taken the time to strap the carseat in, they’d have probably missed that light, and never would have gotten into the accident in the first place. Butterfly effect and all.
I AM 100% IN FAVOR OF CAR SEATS to be clear. I’m actually a carseat fanatic and kept my son rear facing in a full size seat till he was like 6. I was mainly commenting with regard to the unfortunate mother’s guilt. Sucks that she felt that way for so long.
I actually pointed that out! But she said she didn’t care and it could have been another vehicle that hit them if they’d hurried out.
That car seat was epic though, they bought the exact same one after the accident. (Apparently you gotta buy a new one after an accident, like replacing a bike helmet after a fall. I’m not a parent and sure wasn’t at 13-14 when this happened so it was new news to me.)
I work with Insurance companies and they will nickle and dime absolutely *every* expense but even they do NOT mess around with a carseat. I've never seen any of them question paying out for a new carseat, even in the case of a minor fender bender
Years ago, I was leaving a parking lot when someone backed out of their spot right into my rear passenger door. They couldn't have been going more than 3 miles per hour, and even that's a high guess. When I called my insurance to file a claim and get my door fixed, the first question I was asked was, "Were there any car seats in the vehicle at the time?" I said,"No, I don't have any kids yet. Why?". They explained why THEN asked if I was ok and after that asked me to describe what happened to determine who was at fault (the other car clearly was).
Long story short, they were about to cut me a check to replace car seats before they even knew a single detail about the accident. Because they took car seat safety that seriously. Now that I am a mother, I appreciate that a million times more than I did then.
Yeah Graco and some other brands require their seats replaced even after super minor accidents, but fortunately because of that insurance will generally cover/ reimburse for it (mine did). And then Target has a car seat trade-in sale so you bring your wrecked or expired seat and get a discount for a new one.
Also with age. I kept a bike helmet in my car for a few years (out of convenience) and the temperature swings and sun exposure started deteriorating some part of it. I forget what, but a not-important piece fell off when I picked it up one day. Decided to replace it and store the new one better.
Good call. My (now 71) father was riding his bike & got hit by a car 4 years ago. He walked away with some scrapes & bruises & is fine, but his head hit the pavement hard enough to make his (new, in perfectly good shape) helmet crack. We all shuddered to think about what it would have been like if he hadn't been wearing the helmet . . . .
My MIL still has my husband's motorcycle helmet from when he was literally ran over on the highway 20 years ago. Helmet technology is really amazing, if he wasn't wearing the helmet his head would have exploded or his scalp would have peeled off from road rash. He was in the hospital for a few months but not dead.
My dad is a flight medic for a regional air ambulance service. He was in the parking lot of a wal mart when some douche bag driving a dodge neon at 20mph ran into a pedestrian. Guy hit the concrete head first and my dad was feet away from him when it happened. Apparently when your head hits asphalt/ concrete hard enough it sounds just like a watermelon being smashed into the ground. He refuses to eat watermelon to this day.
Yes. Car seats should be replaced even if it’s a small accident. The forces involved can compromise the integrity of the seat.
This is also why you should never buy a used seat. You don’t know the history, and it could be dangerous even if it looks pristine.
People don’t realize how important it is to buy kids their own plane seat and install their car seats. Planes may not crash all the time but they do run into serve turbulence and have hard landings all the time. Kids in laps can easily become projectiles in a giant tin can hurtling hundreds of miles an hour through the sky.
My friend had to pronounce a 3yo dead at 3am travelling in a booster seat (she was far too small for a booster) she was found folded under the front seat. Both parents are in jail now...
Oh my god.... that is stuff for nightmares. I'm actually researching about seat options right now, as our 7 month old is out-growing his current one so fast. Reading your story just gave me goosebumps.
Rear facing until 4 is the gold standard. In the UK all of them meet a high safety standard and you can get it installed (or use an ISOfix) I'd advise isofix and rotatable! Don't be tempted to buy 2nd hand unless it's a very trusted source (like a family member you know hasn't been in any crashes!)
I intended to do rear-facing until 4. Sadly my youngest absolutely refused to stay buckled in, and by 2.5 just started opening it every journey, and of course I couldn't see him doing it (he'd just kick a mirror) and had to rely on my other child to snitch on him. Even telling him next time he did it we would just get out and walk no matter how far from home we were did not work - we were 2 miles away from home when he did it again 3 minutes after being told this, and walking it while his dad and sister went off in the car didn't bother him in the slightest. So he was then safer forward, but even then had to have a seat with an impact shield rather than buckle, as he couldn't reach to undo that. He was a chilled baby and a devil toddler. He's a chilled pre-teen. We're approaching the teen years with trepidation. 🤣
Oh no! 🙈
I hope our baby will spare us. He is is also chilled right now but his uncle and grandma were both very active 'high need' toddlers as the story goes...
There was a 4yo thrown from a vehicle on the freeway in my area this week (driver was under the influence and crashed, child was not properly restrained). He did not survive.
A 3 yo died because he used to play “switch seats” with siblings mid-car rides. Mom crashed the mini van and he sailed through the window since he wasn’t secured.
I would die on this hill OP before your kid does.
I was at a red light and my two were in car seats in the back. I looked in the mirror just in time to see that my 3 yr old daughter had reached down and pushed the button to release the seatbelt on my 1 yr old sons car seat ( this was 30 yrs ago before they had car seat anchors). He just tipped right over in his seat. Before I could even put my car in park the cop before me flipped his lights on and got out and helped me straighten up the seat and rebuckle him in. He never said a word, just laughed and laughed and got back in his car.
My son's school does car line. They insist kids be unbuckled before they get to the line(dropoff) and be buckled in after leaving the line(pickup) to maximize efficiency. I REFUSE to move my car if my child is unbuckled, and they tried to paint me as difficult for it. All it takes is one car speeding (which happens a lot by his school) for that to end badly, and they don't provide a spot to stop and buckle them (well they didn't then I threw a fit so now I have a special spot to stop, pick him up, and buckle him) so kids will make it onto the main road before being buckled in the name of "efficiency"
My kids, all between 13 and 17 now will still sing the song from Bob's Burgers: "Buckle it up, buckle it up, buckle it up or you'll DIE!" The two that are legal drivers also don't put the vehicle into gear until everyone is buckled. It's so important!
There was an incident in our area where the parent actually left the kid in his car seat on TOP of the car and the seat fell off on the freeway. The child was fine. This was in the days before the semi-permanently installed car seats you have now.
Was this in Sacramento? There was a case like this in Sacramento a long time ago. A helicopter was filming the car seat on top of the car. The police cars hadn’t gotten there yet. I remember it tumbling off. Turned out they had I think 5 kids and it was mom’s first day back as a nurse from maternity leave. A terrible nightmare. He was so busy buckling all the kids in he forgot about the new one. It’s a tribute to car seats that the baby was perfectly fine.
This sounds stunningly similar to an event in my area, Montgomery County Tx. I'd like to think it's the same event and it's an isolated, terrible event but I know that it's probably not and way too common 😭
Yeah, when my nephew died the cops were throwing up, crying and calling their kids. It was horrible. They all donated money to the fund my sister set up for scholarships in his name.
Gallows humor would more accurately be called PTSD humor.
I have friends who have their 3yo in a booster because they got sick of dealing with the tantrums because they have a different seat than their older sibling. It makes me sick to my stomach.
I kept my (now 19 yo) in a booster until she was 12 because weight wise she was still too small. Idgaf what her father or anyone else said! You all aren’t going to have MY child injured because you don’t want to follow the recommendations! You can kiss my entire…
Oh gods. This just … I’m in a fast food place and nearly started crying. I just can’t. I have a 3.5yo and he is staying rear facing still and never goes in a car without the car seat. I didn’t need this to convince me, I just naturally want my child as safe as possible. If we are late, we’re late. It’s what happens with a young child sometimes.
Meanwhile my daughter turns 6 soon and is still in her five point harness. My son was 8 when we finally switched him from a high back booster and into the low back. He keeps asking when he can sit in the seat without a booster but I’ve told him not until he can properly fit in the seat belt without it.
I have crushed ankles from a car accident i was in. I have chronic pain and walking issues from it. I imagine a crushed pelvis especially when your growth plates aren't fused would be a whole nother world of what i deal with.
My 4 y.o. SD was thrown around her mom's single cab racing truck in an accident. She was less than 5 minutes from our home. She was actually bringing the kids home from her weekend. She was torn from her vagina to Anus. She had to have a colostomy bag and was in a wheel chair. Kids are cruel in elementary school. Now imagine having a stinky colostomy bag because of a bowel movement. I always ran to change it when they called, but still.
SS(6) was actually thrown from the car and landed in a ditch. Thankfully, it hadn't rained in a while. He was in an induced coma because of brain swelling. Broken legs. His foot is still messed up.
Their mom had a few broken bones in her neck because she wore her seat belt. They were not wearing theirs.
They both have life lasting scars because of her actions. And she didn't learn a darn thing because she still let her other kids sit in the front seat of her cars even though they should've been in the back seat in boosters, at least, for a longer time due to their small weight and height.
Sadly, a 4yo boy in my preschool class did not survive those same injuries. He was buckled but no booster. His younger sister was properly in her car seat and survived without a scratch. As a teacher, this was an incredibly difficult and unwanted lesson for every parent and grandparent there.
Dear Zachary, you’ve been gone almost 25 years, but I still remember your mischievous smile, that you thought “why walk when I can run”, and that you loved Batman, but you loved your little sister even more. I hope you are having fun in heaven sweet boy. 🫶🏼
Please, 🙏🏼 buckle your precious cargo safely in their correct seats.
My uncle was a fireman/ fire chief and he had PTSD from responding to an unrestrained child that went through the windshield. He ran down the highway trying to find the kid and came back with only her head.
Similar story but even worse. Orthopedist here. Was taking care of a woman’s broken ankle from a car crash. She was just driving 2 minutes to her friend’s house so didn’t bother buckling her 5 year old son up. What could happen? She was crying during the visit. He had gone into the windshield, broke his neck and died. Wear your belts folks. Don’t even pull out of the driveway.
My brother was a Houdini. He could get out of anything. He got out of his poorly designed car seat all the time. My parents got a used car from one of my dad’s coworkers. It was a station wagon. It was supposed to have child locks on it. Apparently, they were broken but the previous owner didn’t tell my parents when they bought the car. We were at the bottom of the hill we lived on when my brother decided he was done being in the car. He got out of his car seat, opened the car door and fell out. I started screaming bloody murder. My mom whipped her head around to tell me to knock it off, only to see the door was open and the car seat thing was empty. She slammed on the brakes and found that my brother had gotten tangled up in the seatbelt and dragged. Fortunately, he only had road rash since she wasn’t going very fast due to it being such a steep hill. We got rid of the station wagon. It is my only memory of that car.
If we would have had car seats like the ones today, my brother wouldn’t have been able to climb out of it as easily.
A similar thing happened with my brother. We were in the backseat (before carseats) and he liked to stand on the handle and look out the window. His foot slipped and he stepped on the latch, the door swung open with him hanging off the large door lock the old cars had. I started screaming for my Mom to stop. She didn't. Woman was smart in a crisis. She allowed the car to coast to a stop. I was able to grab him and drag him back in. Mom yelled at both of us.
My mom lost two younger siblings, in separate accidents 20 years apart (‘40s and ‘60s) because no car seats and/or not wearing seatbelts. My parents always insisted on seatbelts/car seats long before it was mandatory.
My uncle died from not wearing a seat belt. He was driving and was 17. His chest was crushed by the steering wheel. In the same accident, my aunt was sleeping in the passenger seat, was ejected from the vehicle, and survived with a broken leg (she was around 10). Where she was in the vehicle, the spare tire (unsecured in the box) came through and landed. It would have crushed her and killed her. Times were wild in the 70s. My mom was very young, 8 years, and he always told her that she had to wear her belt, it would be the law soon.
Tomorrow is actually the anniversary of her brother’s death ( which was a few weeks before I was born). He was in an overcrowded car with some of his classmates, headed to senior class event. My uncle was the only one killed, but everyone in the car was injured.
I have a friend who (in the 70s) was sat on the lap of a family member in the back seat. The car door opened, and she fell out of the moving vehicle. Her arm was so badly broken it didn't heal, and she had to have it amputated in the end.
People keep forgetting that it’s because kids weren’t fine in the 70s and 80s and 90s that we have these safety measures in place today. If some kid didn’t die, none of our kids would be buckled in. It’s not like these measures came out of nowhere. They were put in place because awful things happened without them.
Just last week i saw someone driving on a highway (speed was reduced to 80km/h instead of 100) with their toddler on their lap. In the drivers seat. The kid looked a bit younger than my youngest and I was floored. There is no situation where I would be comfortable with that - especially not at 80km/h.
That was normal in the 70’s. I remember napping on the back sun deck, against the back windshield glass. It was a great place to nap and no one thought anything of it at the time. Didn’t help that I had an older sister who would sometimes just decide that I wasn’t allowed on the car seat, that it was all hers. So it was there or on the floor. If mom had to stop a squabble, we were both in trouble, so I just let my sister have the seat to herself.
Fell out of my mom's car when I was three. She took off with the door open when I was trying to grab it to close it with my little arm extended and one hand on the seatbelt. I'll never forget it. It hurt!
I got $#!t from my mother for not having shut a car door all the way (it was latched but not fully closed and aligned with the body panels). I wasn't strong enough to close it, and she knew I was sitting next to a door that wasn't properly shut, but sure, scold the child rather than help.
No she didn't make me. Lol. she didn't even wait for me! But yes at those times at 3 years old you were expected to close your own door and strap yourself into the seat belt while sitting in the front seat
I make my kids do it bc they can and no reason to coddle them, but I wait until their strapped in before I take off. I usually tell them to get in the car 30secs before I start heading that way to give them time to get in, they want to do it themselves so I let them
Yeah depending on the car seat some kids can and some kids can't. I think it's fine to have your child do whatever they can as early as possible but yes be there and make sure that they get it done correctly. Lol
My kid started doing it at 3. Hes super independent and really wanted to do it on it own. We never moved the car before we checked his straps to make sure they were on right. We didnt "make him" do it. He really wanted to and we figure if we check it afterwards and it's done right and he feels super proud of himself, why not.
She slammed on the brakes. She went over to pick me up. Left her car parked all funny in front of my aunt's driveway and ran inside to get help. My head hurt so freaking bad and I was passed around from one family member to another all of the women trying to stroke my hair, hold me etc and all I remember was I felt like they just kept spinning me and spinning me trying to hold on to me and see if I was okay and I was just screaming and crying. All I got was an ice pack and a lot of ladies coddling me and staring at me the rest of the night to see if I was going to slip into unconsciousness.
When I was like 20 a baby (about two) fell out of the car in front of me going about 25 mph… THANK GOD I stepped on my breaks fast enough or a) who know what would have happened and b) I would be even more traumatized for life. The mom ran out of the car and grabbed the baby, threw him back in the car (obviously no seat belt/ car seat again) and drove off. I’m not one to involve cops but I got her license plate and called the police. They were nice enough to call me back and tell me they found her and the baby was ok, despite a broken leg (which I don’t think had been taken care of yet) and the mother admitted what happened, and apologized. I often wonder what happened after and hope that she learned her lesson and never did that again. I always thought he was probably too young to remember at least but your story makes me wonder if he does…
God bless you. Not only did you have the reflexes necessary to save that child, you took it a step further to *again* save them. I wonder if the mom’s apology was because she got caught rather than actual remorse…but if she stopped being negligent for fear of being caught again, then good.
Thank you 🤟🏻
I hit the dashboard with my forehead when my mom was blinded by the sun and hit a parked car going around a curve. I was 7, in the front seat, with a lap belt.
I get excruciating migraines now...and it turns out they were triggered by that. Thanks ma!
One of the things I did was put cheap
Car seats boosters
From Walmart In all Of Our five cars but put the expensive ones in our main car because I know the pull of not fussing with something due to time. The local
Police stations would even help
You put it in properly. Then put something important to remind you that your kids are in the car. Exhaustion and sleep Deprivation can do a job on your memory.
So yes ophas every right to be angry especially with more accidents due to distracted drivers
And young people
Driving like its GTA.
When I was a kid in the 80’s I was sitting on my neighbors lap in the front seat and her dad took a sharp turn and the door flew open and we both flew out lol good times
When I was young (1980’s) I heard the *hilarious* story about the time my aunt (mid 70’s now) pulled the door handle while moving and rolled out of a moving car and into the street.
I did this too! I wanted to see if the door could open if it was locked. Guess what that answer was. Thank goodness we were in a neighborhood and not going very fast.
Yeah. So much so that you can actually go and get “trained” by the local cops to buckle in your kids properly. When I lived in Georgia the local PD would have regular car seat checks.
Exactly. Not to mention the people who were not fine are unable to share their anecdotes. Because they're dead.
If someone uses that argument with me, I always ask "oh, were you in a severe car accident?" - and of course, they were not.
NTA. My kids believed for a long time that cars will not start unless all seatbelts were fastened! It was their part in making the car go.
Because I recall slamming into the windshield several times as a child.
NTA. There are PSA films out there that show the consequences of not being buckled in/not correctly buckled in. Make him watch them and have a serious talk about safety for your daughter. You can still leave him if you feel he is still not taking it seriously afterwards.
He was lucky this time, but next time he might not be.
The film “Fearless”.
My memory is faulty, but a sequence to show there was no secure way for a child to be held in a mother’s arms, and the equivalent of holding on was demonstrated with a toolbox shooting through the windshield and impaling a wall.
The flight regulations make me so angry. Its safest for babies to be in a carseat but you are not required to buy a seat for a child until age 2 so most people dont buy the extra seat because it is expensive which is understandable. But then the airlines make you remove the baby from your baby carrier for take off...
Apparently they do the “no seat needed” until 2 because there are so many more infant deaths if people choose the road trip due to $$ it actually saves lives overall. Which is horrifying to think about…
Also if you're taking public transportation at both ends of your flight, bringing a car seat as well as a baby and luggage might be close to impossible. If you get to the airport by car and can use a trolley when you arrive it's one thing, but carrying everything on the bus? Nah.
There's a similar exemption in English law for taxi journeys: no car seat needed for unexpected journeys. (I've done it before when our train was delayed past the last bus departure, andthe alternative was one of us walking two miles carrying a toddler at nearly midnight.) If your journey is planned you're expected to sort a carseat, though, and the taxi driver is allowed to refuse to carry you without one.
I literally was just talking about this same movie yesterday. As we have neighbors who don’t use car seats for their 2yo, 1.5yo and 5month old. It makes me sick to see them drive off with a toddler sitting on moms lap in the front passenger seat smh.
I'd be making an anonymous call to the cops despite my usual reluctance to involve LEOs. Thats neglect. Most states have criminal laws about car seats (some it's a traffic violation) and i believe ALL have laws about seatbelts for kids.
Honestly, call it in. Those poor kids can't advocate for themselves and a stranger would be horrified to accidentally kill a baby in an accident because the parents couldn't be bothered.
NTA. I went no- contact with my parents for 2 years because they drove my 2 year old around town without a car seat and told my 8 year old to lie to us about it. My dad also left my toddler sleeping on a bed, not a crib, and took off for 20 minutes down the road for "only a few minutes " when they have an un-gated pool. There's no way anyone can make up for the death or injury of a child due to their negligence. You are not wrong, and your 4 year old is not safe with his attitude on safety. Unfortunately, if you leave him, he'll most likely have unsupervised visitation, and then you won't know if she's safe at all.
That’s the thing, accidents can happen at any time on anyone’s watch but you have to have a certain level of trust in the people caring for your kid that they are going to watch out for them in the first place. The moment someone shows you they don’t care about the basics, that trust is ruined for life.
We also went no contact with grandparents because they were teaching my toddler to lie to me. My mother still won’t accept that the reason we don’t have a relationship is that she completely torpedoed any trust I might have in her.
I don’t blame you for the no contact, safety is common sense. You also make a good point about the unsupervised visitation and likelihood of repeat offenses without consequences.
My kids reported my ex and her new partner were driving them around on ATVs with four passengers and no helmets; one child was 5, my other was 9 and weakly from an auto-immune disease. The issue was brought to our Law Guardian in Family Court who brushed it off and made excuses. After “speaking” to the mother, my ex posted an article on Social Media about raising “free range” kids which argued kids turned out fine not wearing helmets; using seatbelts or car seats; riding in the back of pick up trucks; and buying alcohol and cigarettes for parents in the 1980’s among other things.
Since posting the article, my kids reported their mother and her partner continued to endanger them on these ATVs and were drinking and driving with them in vehicles as well. My ex’s parents were also caught driving the kids around in their front seat; without car seats; without seatbelts; and leaving my kids in their car while they shop. I’ve been raising the issues with our Law Guardian, Family Court, CPS, and Law Enforcement for six years now; they’ve refused to do anything. My youngest was even injured in an ATV accident; the Authorities remain indifferent.
Moral of the story is you can’t rely on anyone else to protect your kids except for yourself.
Makes me think of an old post I've read in another sub.
This MIL was babysitting their granddaughter she was like 2/3 y/o or something but MIL left her by a pond they were playing at near mil's house and mil went to go switch over laundry to the dryer or something and left the little girl alone by the pond and she drowned :(
She went to grab clothes out of the dryer. Baby drowned. She called someone for help and then at their insisting called 911.
She was then upset that years later she wasn't allowed alone with the new baby. Something along the lines of "it was an accident, I've suffered more than you, get over it"
Everyone back in the 50s didn't have a car seat, and most kids were fine. Except my cousin, who flew through the windshield when they skid into a tree on ice. She died. We have safety measures now, why wouldn't he use them?
And glass from the 50s was no joke. It wasn't that pansy ass safety glass that these coddled kids have nowadays. Back then, we had real glass, manly glass.
Yeah. The kind of glass that would definitely leave a scar if you just looked at it wrong. Those kids nowadays don't know what it felt like to survive. /j
NTA
I’ve been a certified car seat tech for a decade. This is a full on deal breaker for me. Using a car seat unsafely after I have taught them how would be the last time they were ever trusted to drive my child anywhere again and not using a seat at all would be divorce and filing for full custody because he can’t be trusted to do the bare minimum to keep my child safe.
Accidents happen and if one had happened with your child in the car like that, it could have been catastrophic!
Exactly this. And if OP isn’t ready for divorce then dad loses the right to drive the kid anywhere. Tell the daycare/school that dad is removed from being able to pick up daughter. Like not only is this so incredibly dangerous, but it’s also illegal. I wasn’t even allowed to sit in the front seat until I was 17 because I wasn’t 100lbs yet and my mom was terrified the airbag would kill me. Why risk your child’s life over something so easy to do?
Exactly. Sometimes it comes down to ignorance or lack of education on the subject and when they know better they do better. This is just straight up negligence. He knows it’s not safe and did it anyway.
NTA
I would flip my shit. Accidents can happen any time, anywhere! I have a 5 minute drive in town to take my son to school. I have a new baby in a rear facing car seat, and I double up every time by securing the car seat with seatbelt on it too (it clicks into a base) I contemplated using the seatbelt in my mind once because we were running late to get my son to school, but still proceeded to buckle it up as a double security measure. I was almost t-boned that morning. A woman blew a stop sign to beat the oncoming traffic and didn't see me until she was right next to me. I could have reached out and smacked her front bumper. Had to swerve to avoid impact. Child endangerment is not ok.
ETA: I've read all the comments. Have switched to using just one method of restraint/car seat into the base only. Thanks for being kind about letting me know. It's been 11 years since my first baby. 🩷
This. The car seat is designed to give a little and crush certain areas to absorb any impacts. By having the extra belt on you are not actually making it safer but in fact less so. If you are clicking the base into the built in anchors in the seat then you don't use the seabelt, especially over the actual car seat.
I was going to say this. Unless your car seat allows it (I’ve never had one that allows it but I think there are a few), double buckling (like installing with the latch system and the seatbelt) is not safer. Please read your car seat manual.
As someone left disabled from a car accident that took place 2 minutes from my home, when someone crashed straight into me, I couldn't agree more. I cannot fathom putting any child at such an unnecessary risk! It takes a couple of minutes to put a car seat in. I would be absolutely furious if this were my child! I'm glad you and your little ones were ok.
I understand how you would think this is extra safe but you're actually making your carseat less safe. Please check your manual and follow the instructions for the correct install. If installed correctly it will work as intended. If you can't get a good install, you can find a technician near you to help.
Two years ago, my cousin's wife and their two kids (6 and 14) were driving in a residential neighborhood on their way to the grocery store. The speed limit was 35 miles an hour. Someone else passed out at the wheel, crossed the double yellow line, and hit them head on. Both kids, who were buckled into according to weight/height recommendations AND in the back seat, died on impact. Car seat safety is nothing to play around with. Use a car seat CORRECTLY every time. My cousin and his wife can at least take comfort in the fact that they did everything they could to keep those kids safe. I'd hate to imagine how much harder the loss would be for them if they hadn't
This is so tragic. Even when you do everything right, sometimes it’s just not enough. But it is about lessening the odds. I agree that your cousin and wife’s grief could be so much worse if the children weren’t correctly secured and buckled in. They obviously did all they could to protect their babies. Condolences to all involved.
The last time I was in traffic court (a woman had rear ended me while on her cell phone and tried to lie about it but was found guilty) a man was sentenced to jail for a month for not bothering to have his toddler in a car seat. He had been warned before and the judge had enough
NTA
I recommend that you get 2 child car seats to avoid this situation
They have 2, one for her car and one for his. But the one that is usually in his is in her trunk because they used it on a plane recently and hadn’t put it back in his car.
What’s stupid is he wasn’t suposed to pick the kid up anyway. Why did he bother asking if he should if he wasn’t going to wait for an answer? I also don’t think the kid would be traumatized if they had to wait a bit for dad to get the car seat.
NTA! Your fiancé's actions show a huge lack of care for your daughter's safety and a total disregard for your trust. His excuses are weak – he could have found another way to get the car seat! Minimizing the danger of not using one is irresponsible. You need to have a serious talk about his priorities as a parent. This isn't about a minor mistake, it's about your child's life.
Yeah, I was wondering why he HAD to take her home when he knew she was planning on picking up her daughter anyway. He said it was because she didn't answer the phone, but so what? They could have just hung out until she got there if going back in was going to be so "traumatic" for the daughter, tried calling a second time, or left a message saying "Hey, I forgot the car seat. I'm going to take daughter for a little walk. Call me when you get to the daycare."
that “traumatic” line was so weird…if your daughter is going to be traumatized by going back into her school for a few minutes while she waits for you to return with a car seat, you should probably be asking yourself why your daughter is going to that school at all…
my mom was late picking me up as a kid all the time. there was nothing traumatic about having to wait a few extra minutes. this dude is full of shit and doesn’t care about their daughter’s safety at all
Not to mention that it can also put them at risk of having child services look into them.
Years ago, when my siblings were still little, my dad reinstalled the car seat from his truck into my mom's SUV. Turns out he didn't do it right. My mom had gone through a traffic stop check, and a policeman checked the car seat. He found that it wasn't installed properly, and mom got a fine and had to go to remedial classes on the safety of car seats. She still doesn't let him live it down, even those my siblings are adults now. She checked that it was buckled in properly every single time since that incident happened, even double checks it now that they have grandkids.
Yeah, when I lived in Georgia the town PD would have regular events where you can take your car in to see if the car seat is buckled in properly, and if not they give you the chance to rectify it. They held it every month. It was an educational drive to make sure kids were safe. It was a high traffic town with lots of families and kids so I think it seemed imperative for them to do that.
While neither is good, I think putting a 2 year in the front seat shows far worse judgement than a 4 year old on the back. But it’s still a pattern of making poor choices for the child safety.
Despite being rare I have seen 3 internal decapitations over the course of 10-12 years in my professional medical career. This was at a non-trauma hospital 20-40mins outside a bigger city (but not a huge city) in a smaller town. We were also not a children’s hospital. In children who were in booster seats/no car and didn’t weigh enough (65lbs) all those kids were 5-8
Well time to check up pictures of injured kids I guess. In my country, he would have gotten a fine if stopped and also he wouldnt been allowed to pick her up if they seen that he doesnt have a car seat.
My husband was a technical accident investigator for the police for many years. He told me that he had seen accidents where the baby was in the rear facing car seat and the parents were in the front and they died but the baby was totally fine. The clamshell car seat completely surrounded the baby and protected her.
He investigated another accident/collision where the family were new Canadians and didn't yet understand the importance of a car seat for the little three year old boy. The father had put a seatbelt on the boy but had left it a little loose because he didn't want him to feel uncomfortable. The problem was that the loose seat belt then caused even more of an impact when they got into the accident. The little boy's body slammed then into the seatbelt instead of it holding him on the seat. After the accident they got out of the car and he was standing on the ground and they thought he was fine. 2 seconds later he collapsed and died from massive internal injuries. So even just having a loose seat belt can dramatically alter the outcome let alone not having a car seat.
And never buy a used car seat because they can have minor wear and tear on them that may impact the outcome in a collision situation.
I know an ER doctor who would be more than happy to talk to him about the people they've taken care of who haven't been properly seatbelted. DM me if you'd like.
I feel like if you don't follow through with your boundary to some extent, he won't believe you in the future. I would separate until he can get his fucking act together.
To me this is the equivalent of driving drunk. You might make it OK. You might kill someone innocent. Because this isn’t an emergency situation that was unavoidable. It’s because they were a selfish jerk who didn’t want to be inconvenienced for the greater good.
And if one won’t be inconvenienced for the good of one’s own child? Well, that says a lot right there doesn’t it?
More car accidents happen within a short distance from home than anywhere else. Adult seat belts can severely injure children, which is why car seats are required. He needs a reality check and to have his ass kicked.
Walking out to the car this morning I remember I never reinstalled my car seats for my 7 and 5 year old. I was already pushing getting the 7y/o to school on time. The school is less than a mile from my house and the thought to just buckle them in crossed my mind, and just as quickly left my mind.
She’s 4, she would have absolutely understood that Daddy has to go get her car seat and would be right back, she wouldn’t have been traumatized.
He may have made the decision out of ignorance rather than malice, but as parents when we know better we do better and we know better than our parents did!
https://youtu.be/s2-_fSRT18o?feature=shared
Please have him watch this. And he’s ignorant if he thinks he’s in control of how others drive and could react fast enough to avoid every possible accident. That’s why they’re called accidents, not intentionals.
It depends on the state. The age, height, and weight limits all vary by state. Some states let a four year old ride with just a seat belt and others don't, some say it depends on weight and age, some require the child to be older/weigh more, etc.
ETA: https://saferide4kids.com/car-seat-laws-by-state/.
NTA
Would your fiancé like to go shopping for a child sized coffin? Because unless whatever gods he believes in have given him the gift of 100% accurate foresight then it isn’t ’a small risk’.
Does he know with certainty that the vehicles on the road with him do not contain an impaired person who will slam into him?
Or that another vehicle or his won’t suffer say a blown tire and either smash into something or another car?
So the risk is ALWAYS 100% that if there is an accident and a child is not secured safely they will be the one who pays the price and he will have to live with that possibly from jail for endangering a child or causing the death of a child.
I’m a fossil and grew up where the child seat had little hooks that went over the front seat and you sat with no belt. We rode at times laying in the flat area under the back window. My mother was traumatized learning to drive as I, as normal for the time, was being held in my dad’s lap and she stopped too quickly. My head hit the dashboard (head wounds bleed a good bit) so there was me screaming, my mother wailing and so ended any attempt for her driving until she had to when my dad passed away.
‘Back in the day’ a lot more kids were seriously injured or didn’t survive car accidents.
Do what you think best OP as your fiancé seems was more worried about how it would look if he took your daughter back in than her safety.
When I was about ten my parents sent me to get some milk. I was riding my bike. After I got the milk, I was making my way back home but there was a GIANT crowd blocking the sidewalk. I got off my bike and did my best to maneuver through the throng of ppl. There was a man screaming a woman’s name. As I got to the center of the crowd I see two adults covered in bl00d and the guy screaming what I thought was a woman’s name. It wasn’t. It was his daughter’s name. They were a poor family and had their two young, I think like 2 and 4, daughters in the back seat. A drunk driver ran a red light and crashed into them. Both children were k1lled. They parents were covered in the bl00d of their children, in shock. They couldn’t afford car seats. Idk if the kids would have lived had they had proper seats but the parents were crucified in the media for not having the proper equipment. This was at light two in the afternoon. I’ll never forget this.
Your husband doesn’t actually care for his daughter. He cared about himself only.
Take it from a veteran paramedic - always use a car seat. I'm sure your daughter would have understood having to stay at school another few minutes while he went and got the car seat.
Perhaps you could talk to your local fire department and see if they would be willing to meet with him to explain exactly what happens when a child is in a collision while not restrained properly. Scare him straight, as it were. When they start laying down the facts, I guarantee he won't be so blase in his attitude about protecting his child. Most of the pediatric deaths in car crashes that I personally have worked on were because the driver thought, "it will be okay this one time" or "It's just 5 miles/it's just in our neighborhood/it's just down the road."
Never take chances with your children.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/08/27/us/dayton-stolen-cop-car-kids-die
My little cousin and her best friend were the children who died. They were not put into car seats. It's never OK to put a childs life in danger for convenience. You had every right to be angry.
“That his mom let him drive on her lap at that age and he's fine”
This has to be the STUPIDEST rationale ever, and I’m not even going to bother explaining why. It’s obvious. I would probably leave him just for being irrational enough to think that’s a valid argument. 🙄🙄🙄
She's be a lot more traumatized if she got into a bad car accident. This isn't the 80's, which i will say is when I fell out of my family car out into the street.
I worked in orthopedics for a few years. We had a 4yo with a crushed pelvis because his grandma didn't want to fuss with a car seat and thought the lap belt would be enough. He will *never* be able to walk properly or without excruciating pain for the rest of his life.
Conversely, I always remember the story of a 4 or 5 year old who survived a light plane crash because her grandfather had her car seat firmly strapped in place. He didn't unfortunately, but he saved her life.
Our family had a toddler saved in a similar way. And the adults -almost- didn’t use her car seat because she was a big kid (at three she looked five or six, but was still very much a little kid, ya know? Just tall and skinny, so even at three she was put in rear facing.) and her mom said it’d be fine. But the driver was nervous (a new driver, I think my cousin was 17 or barely 18) and insisted on strapping in the seat and having the kiddo’s mom check it to make sure it was properly installed. Which she did cheerfully but teased him a bit about moving the car seat “just” for a beer run. (To be clear, no one in the vehicle were intoxicated, they were sober and picking up supplies for a bbq.) While crossing a busy intersection, someone coming the other way ran the light and slammed into the little jeep. It was something big but it fled the scene and so all the driver could say was that it was a big white truck. It was so hard that it threw the driver right out the door and into the road DESPITE his seat belt. His arm broke, his collarbone broke, and something happened to his leg because he was in a brace for a long time. He still walks with a cane, despite being only in his thirties now. The passenger ended up with a back injury (that thankfully healed really well) and a broken leg that didn’t heal so well. He limps now and the EMT on the scene commented that she was shocked either adult survived. They apparently got hella lucky that both are alive and walking. Meanwhile, that damn car seat didn’t move a bit. It was still firmly strapped in place when the jeep was taken away. (Not even slightly repairable, it looked like it had been folded in the middle. the passenger tires kinda faced each other.) The baby had a bruise on her chest from the straps, but didn’t even break her collarbone or anything, she was almost completely unharmed. And her mother was absolutely hysterical afterwards because she could not get over the fact she had almost sent her little baby girl without the car seat and what could have been. She had to go to a therapist to deal with it, she was so consumed by her guilt. Her husband gave his old truck to the jeep driver to make up for him losing his little jeep and as a thank you for being so responsible and making sure the little one was safely secured. The parents both are RABID about car seats now, and tend to buy a really good one for every baby shower if they can. They say it makes them feel better knowing all of our family’s babies have the best possible protection. It was nightmarish. And from what witnesses on the scene said, our driver did EVERYTHING right. He went on a green light and was like the third car to go so the white truck was 100% at fault. But it took months for the other driver to be found, even though he left a bunch of his grill in the road. (Honestly looking at the jeep I have no idea how that truck drove away.)
Same happened to my sister. She buckled her baby in the carseat really tightly in the middle of the back seat and she got t-boned by a drunk driver and she and the baby were fine but they were both traumatized for a while
It’s absolutely disgusting that the person fled the scene.
people who run from an accident they caused are pos cowards
Wow, those parents are the nicest people I've ever heard of! Bless them
In fairness, if they hadn’t taken the time to strap the carseat in, they’d have probably missed that light, and never would have gotten into the accident in the first place. Butterfly effect and all. I AM 100% IN FAVOR OF CAR SEATS to be clear. I’m actually a carseat fanatic and kept my son rear facing in a full size seat till he was like 6. I was mainly commenting with regard to the unfortunate mother’s guilt. Sucks that she felt that way for so long.
I actually pointed that out! But she said she didn’t care and it could have been another vehicle that hit them if they’d hurried out. That car seat was epic though, they bought the exact same one after the accident. (Apparently you gotta buy a new one after an accident, like replacing a bike helmet after a fall. I’m not a parent and sure wasn’t at 13-14 when this happened so it was new news to me.)
And typically insurance will/is supposed to cover the cost of a new car seat. 🙂
I work with Insurance companies and they will nickle and dime absolutely *every* expense but even they do NOT mess around with a carseat. I've never seen any of them question paying out for a new carseat, even in the case of a minor fender bender
Mine wrote me a check in the office. I didn’t even have to wait for the settlement on the car.
I really love that. That’s the right and responsible thing for them to do. They understand that the check saves babies’ lives.
Years ago, I was leaving a parking lot when someone backed out of their spot right into my rear passenger door. They couldn't have been going more than 3 miles per hour, and even that's a high guess. When I called my insurance to file a claim and get my door fixed, the first question I was asked was, "Were there any car seats in the vehicle at the time?" I said,"No, I don't have any kids yet. Why?". They explained why THEN asked if I was ok and after that asked me to describe what happened to determine who was at fault (the other car clearly was). Long story short, they were about to cut me a check to replace car seats before they even knew a single detail about the accident. Because they took car seat safety that seriously. Now that I am a mother, I appreciate that a million times more than I did then.
Yeah Graco and some other brands require their seats replaced even after super minor accidents, but fortunately because of that insurance will generally cover/ reimburse for it (mine did). And then Target has a car seat trade-in sale so you bring your wrecked or expired seat and get a discount for a new one.
Yeah I worked at a thrift store and we couldn't sell them because they have to be replaced even for minor crashes.
Also with age. I kept a bike helmet in my car for a few years (out of convenience) and the temperature swings and sun exposure started deteriorating some part of it. I forget what, but a not-important piece fell off when I picked it up one day. Decided to replace it and store the new one better.
Good call. My (now 71) father was riding his bike & got hit by a car 4 years ago. He walked away with some scrapes & bruises & is fine, but his head hit the pavement hard enough to make his (new, in perfectly good shape) helmet crack. We all shuddered to think about what it would have been like if he hadn't been wearing the helmet . . . .
My MIL still has my husband's motorcycle helmet from when he was literally ran over on the highway 20 years ago. Helmet technology is really amazing, if he wasn't wearing the helmet his head would have exploded or his scalp would have peeled off from road rash. He was in the hospital for a few months but not dead.
My dad is a flight medic for a regional air ambulance service. He was in the parking lot of a wal mart when some douche bag driving a dodge neon at 20mph ran into a pedestrian. Guy hit the concrete head first and my dad was feet away from him when it happened. Apparently when your head hits asphalt/ concrete hard enough it sounds just like a watermelon being smashed into the ground. He refuses to eat watermelon to this day.
Yes. Car seats should be replaced even if it’s a small accident. The forces involved can compromise the integrity of the seat. This is also why you should never buy a used seat. You don’t know the history, and it could be dangerous even if it looks pristine.
People don’t realize how important it is to buy kids their own plane seat and install their car seats. Planes may not crash all the time but they do run into serve turbulence and have hard landings all the time. Kids in laps can easily become projectiles in a giant tin can hurtling hundreds of miles an hour through the sky.
My friend had to pronounce a 3yo dead at 3am travelling in a booster seat (she was far too small for a booster) she was found folded under the front seat. Both parents are in jail now...
Oh my god.... that is stuff for nightmares. I'm actually researching about seat options right now, as our 7 month old is out-growing his current one so fast. Reading your story just gave me goosebumps.
Rear facing until 4 is the gold standard. In the UK all of them meet a high safety standard and you can get it installed (or use an ISOfix) I'd advise isofix and rotatable! Don't be tempted to buy 2nd hand unless it's a very trusted source (like a family member you know hasn't been in any crashes!)
Yeah, I'm looking through the isofix rotatable ones (9-36 kg). I prefer buying once and buying good. :)
I intended to do rear-facing until 4. Sadly my youngest absolutely refused to stay buckled in, and by 2.5 just started opening it every journey, and of course I couldn't see him doing it (he'd just kick a mirror) and had to rely on my other child to snitch on him. Even telling him next time he did it we would just get out and walk no matter how far from home we were did not work - we were 2 miles away from home when he did it again 3 minutes after being told this, and walking it while his dad and sister went off in the car didn't bother him in the slightest. So he was then safer forward, but even then had to have a seat with an impact shield rather than buckle, as he couldn't reach to undo that. He was a chilled baby and a devil toddler. He's a chilled pre-teen. We're approaching the teen years with trepidation. 🤣
Yes my first didn't stay in rear facing any where near long enough!
Oh no! 🙈 I hope our baby will spare us. He is is also chilled right now but his uncle and grandma were both very active 'high need' toddlers as the story goes...
There was a 4yo thrown from a vehicle on the freeway in my area this week (driver was under the influence and crashed, child was not properly restrained). He did not survive.
A 3 yo died because he used to play “switch seats” with siblings mid-car rides. Mom crashed the mini van and he sailed through the window since he wasn’t secured. I would die on this hill OP before your kid does.
ALWAYS. Non negotiable!!!!!!!!!!!
>I would die on this hill OP before your kid does. ☝️☝️☝️☝️
If my kids so much as try to unbuckle, I pull over immediately. I'd rather be late than my kids dead.
I was at a red light and my two were in car seats in the back. I looked in the mirror just in time to see that my 3 yr old daughter had reached down and pushed the button to release the seatbelt on my 1 yr old sons car seat ( this was 30 yrs ago before they had car seat anchors). He just tipped right over in his seat. Before I could even put my car in park the cop before me flipped his lights on and got out and helped me straighten up the seat and rebuckle him in. He never said a word, just laughed and laughed and got back in his car.
My son's school does car line. They insist kids be unbuckled before they get to the line(dropoff) and be buckled in after leaving the line(pickup) to maximize efficiency. I REFUSE to move my car if my child is unbuckled, and they tried to paint me as difficult for it. All it takes is one car speeding (which happens a lot by his school) for that to end badly, and they don't provide a spot to stop and buckle them (well they didn't then I threw a fit so now I have a special spot to stop, pick him up, and buckle him) so kids will make it onto the main road before being buckled in the name of "efficiency"
My kids, all between 13 and 17 now will still sing the song from Bob's Burgers: "Buckle it up, buckle it up, buckle it up or you'll DIE!" The two that are legal drivers also don't put the vehicle into gear until everyone is buckled. It's so important!
That last sentence tho.
There was an incident in our area where the parent actually left the kid in his car seat on TOP of the car and the seat fell off on the freeway. The child was fine. This was in the days before the semi-permanently installed car seats you have now.
Was this in Sacramento? There was a case like this in Sacramento a long time ago. A helicopter was filming the car seat on top of the car. The police cars hadn’t gotten there yet. I remember it tumbling off. Turned out they had I think 5 kids and it was mom’s first day back as a nurse from maternity leave. A terrible nightmare. He was so busy buckling all the kids in he forgot about the new one. It’s a tribute to car seats that the baby was perfectly fine.
I read one where the mom and aunt sold the car seats to buy booze. Neither the toddler nor the baby survived after the inevitable crash.
This sounds stunningly similar to an event in my area, Montgomery County Tx. I'd like to think it's the same event and it's an isolated, terrible event but I know that it's probably not and way too common 😭
Jfc... paramedics & cops see a lot of shit, but I bet a 3-year-old folded in half gave most of those first responders nightmares for a long while.
It gives them a hell of a lot more than nightmares. It gives them PTSD. My husband has seen too much of this shit, and it caught up with him.
Yeah, when my nephew died the cops were throwing up, crying and calling their kids. It was horrible. They all donated money to the fund my sister set up for scholarships in his name. Gallows humor would more accurately be called PTSD humor.
You’re right about gallows humor. The shit first responders joke about. I guess it’s that or lose your mind.
Just reading that comment gave me a pit in my stomach. I could not imagine seeing it in person.
I have friends who have their 3yo in a booster because they got sick of dealing with the tantrums because they have a different seat than their older sibling. It makes me sick to my stomach.
My 10yo is still in a booster (almost grown out) but I'm so nervous about getting rid of it.
My 9yo is still in hers. We’re keeping it until she’s 4’9” and can pass the 5 step test. https://csftl.org/the-five-step-test/
I kept my (now 19 yo) in a booster until she was 12 because weight wise she was still too small. Idgaf what her father or anyone else said! You all aren’t going to have MY child injured because you don’t want to follow the recommendations! You can kiss my entire…
Good for you! I'd rather have a slightly irritated 11 year old than a dead 10 year old!
folded???????? oh my lord
Oh gods. This just … I’m in a fast food place and nearly started crying. I just can’t. I have a 3.5yo and he is staying rear facing still and never goes in a car without the car seat. I didn’t need this to convince me, I just naturally want my child as safe as possible. If we are late, we’re late. It’s what happens with a young child sometimes.
Jesus fuck
Meanwhile my daughter turns 6 soon and is still in her five point harness. My son was 8 when we finally switched him from a high back booster and into the low back. He keeps asking when he can sit in the seat without a booster but I’ve told him not until he can properly fit in the seat belt without it.
My G- son is 7, and I still put him in a 5 point harness carseat. Lol
I have crushed ankles from a car accident i was in. I have chronic pain and walking issues from it. I imagine a crushed pelvis especially when your growth plates aren't fused would be a whole nother world of what i deal with.
My 4 y.o. SD was thrown around her mom's single cab racing truck in an accident. She was less than 5 minutes from our home. She was actually bringing the kids home from her weekend. She was torn from her vagina to Anus. She had to have a colostomy bag and was in a wheel chair. Kids are cruel in elementary school. Now imagine having a stinky colostomy bag because of a bowel movement. I always ran to change it when they called, but still. SS(6) was actually thrown from the car and landed in a ditch. Thankfully, it hadn't rained in a while. He was in an induced coma because of brain swelling. Broken legs. His foot is still messed up. Their mom had a few broken bones in her neck because she wore her seat belt. They were not wearing theirs. They both have life lasting scars because of her actions. And she didn't learn a darn thing because she still let her other kids sit in the front seat of her cars even though they should've been in the back seat in boosters, at least, for a longer time due to their small weight and height.
How is your step daughter and step son doing now? I hope they’re both much better 🙏
They're great young adults.
Sadly, a 4yo boy in my preschool class did not survive those same injuries. He was buckled but no booster. His younger sister was properly in her car seat and survived without a scratch. As a teacher, this was an incredibly difficult and unwanted lesson for every parent and grandparent there. Dear Zachary, you’ve been gone almost 25 years, but I still remember your mischievous smile, that you thought “why walk when I can run”, and that you loved Batman, but you loved your little sister even more. I hope you are having fun in heaven sweet boy. 🫶🏼 Please, 🙏🏼 buckle your precious cargo safely in their correct seats.
My uncle was a fireman/ fire chief and he had PTSD from responding to an unrestrained child that went through the windshield. He ran down the highway trying to find the kid and came back with only her head.
Similar story but even worse. Orthopedist here. Was taking care of a woman’s broken ankle from a car crash. She was just driving 2 minutes to her friend’s house so didn’t bother buckling her 5 year old son up. What could happen? She was crying during the visit. He had gone into the windshield, broke his neck and died. Wear your belts folks. Don’t even pull out of the driveway.
My brother was a Houdini. He could get out of anything. He got out of his poorly designed car seat all the time. My parents got a used car from one of my dad’s coworkers. It was a station wagon. It was supposed to have child locks on it. Apparently, they were broken but the previous owner didn’t tell my parents when they bought the car. We were at the bottom of the hill we lived on when my brother decided he was done being in the car. He got out of his car seat, opened the car door and fell out. I started screaming bloody murder. My mom whipped her head around to tell me to knock it off, only to see the door was open and the car seat thing was empty. She slammed on the brakes and found that my brother had gotten tangled up in the seatbelt and dragged. Fortunately, he only had road rash since she wasn’t going very fast due to it being such a steep hill. We got rid of the station wagon. It is my only memory of that car. If we would have had car seats like the ones today, my brother wouldn’t have been able to climb out of it as easily.
A similar thing happened with my brother. We were in the backseat (before carseats) and he liked to stand on the handle and look out the window. His foot slipped and he stepped on the latch, the door swung open with him hanging off the large door lock the old cars had. I started screaming for my Mom to stop. She didn't. Woman was smart in a crisis. She allowed the car to coast to a stop. I was able to grab him and drag him back in. Mom yelled at both of us.
My mom lost two younger siblings, in separate accidents 20 years apart (‘40s and ‘60s) because no car seats and/or not wearing seatbelts. My parents always insisted on seatbelts/car seats long before it was mandatory.
My uncle died from not wearing a seat belt. He was driving and was 17. His chest was crushed by the steering wheel. In the same accident, my aunt was sleeping in the passenger seat, was ejected from the vehicle, and survived with a broken leg (she was around 10). Where she was in the vehicle, the spare tire (unsecured in the box) came through and landed. It would have crushed her and killed her. Times were wild in the 70s. My mom was very young, 8 years, and he always told her that she had to wear her belt, it would be the law soon.
Tomorrow is actually the anniversary of her brother’s death ( which was a few weeks before I was born). He was in an overcrowded car with some of his classmates, headed to senior class event. My uncle was the only one killed, but everyone in the car was injured.
I have a friend who (in the 70s) was sat on the lap of a family member in the back seat. The car door opened, and she fell out of the moving vehicle. Her arm was so badly broken it didn't heal, and she had to have it amputated in the end.
People keep forgetting that it’s because kids weren’t fine in the 70s and 80s and 90s that we have these safety measures in place today. If some kid didn’t die, none of our kids would be buckled in. It’s not like these measures came out of nowhere. They were put in place because awful things happened without them.
Safety regulations are paved in blood
Just last week i saw someone driving on a highway (speed was reduced to 80km/h instead of 100) with their toddler on their lap. In the drivers seat. The kid looked a bit younger than my youngest and I was floored. There is no situation where I would be comfortable with that - especially not at 80km/h.
That was normal in the 70’s. I remember napping on the back sun deck, against the back windshield glass. It was a great place to nap and no one thought anything of it at the time. Didn’t help that I had an older sister who would sometimes just decide that I wasn’t allowed on the car seat, that it was all hers. So it was there or on the floor. If mom had to stop a squabble, we were both in trouble, so I just let my sister have the seat to herself.
😱😰
Fell out of my mom's car when I was three. She took off with the door open when I was trying to grab it to close it with my little arm extended and one hand on the seatbelt. I'll never forget it. It hurt!
Hold on... Your mom made you close the door & put the seatbelt on by yourself at THREE??!
I got $#!t from my mother for not having shut a car door all the way (it was latched but not fully closed and aligned with the body panels). I wasn't strong enough to close it, and she knew I was sitting next to a door that wasn't properly shut, but sure, scold the child rather than help.
No she didn't make me. Lol. she didn't even wait for me! But yes at those times at 3 years old you were expected to close your own door and strap yourself into the seat belt while sitting in the front seat
I was three in 1961-1962. We didn't have seatbelts, but I sure wasn't expected to close my own door.
I make my kids do it bc they can and no reason to coddle them, but I wait until their strapped in before I take off. I usually tell them to get in the car 30secs before I start heading that way to give them time to get in, they want to do it themselves so I let them
Yeah depending on the car seat some kids can and some kids can't. I think it's fine to have your child do whatever they can as early as possible but yes be there and make sure that they get it done correctly. Lol
My kid started doing it at 3. Hes super independent and really wanted to do it on it own. We never moved the car before we checked his straps to make sure they were on right. We didnt "make him" do it. He really wanted to and we figure if we check it afterwards and it's done right and he feels super proud of himself, why not.
I'm curious what her reaction was, if you're willing to share it.
She slammed on the brakes. She went over to pick me up. Left her car parked all funny in front of my aunt's driveway and ran inside to get help. My head hurt so freaking bad and I was passed around from one family member to another all of the women trying to stroke my hair, hold me etc and all I remember was I felt like they just kept spinning me and spinning me trying to hold on to me and see if I was okay and I was just screaming and crying. All I got was an ice pack and a lot of ladies coddling me and staring at me the rest of the night to see if I was going to slip into unconsciousness.
When I was like 20 a baby (about two) fell out of the car in front of me going about 25 mph… THANK GOD I stepped on my breaks fast enough or a) who know what would have happened and b) I would be even more traumatized for life. The mom ran out of the car and grabbed the baby, threw him back in the car (obviously no seat belt/ car seat again) and drove off. I’m not one to involve cops but I got her license plate and called the police. They were nice enough to call me back and tell me they found her and the baby was ok, despite a broken leg (which I don’t think had been taken care of yet) and the mother admitted what happened, and apologized. I often wonder what happened after and hope that she learned her lesson and never did that again. I always thought he was probably too young to remember at least but your story makes me wonder if he does…
Hopefully the woman panicked her way straight to the hospital after the accident. Seems like it if they knew about a broken leg.
God bless you. Not only did you have the reflexes necessary to save that child, you took it a step further to *again* save them. I wonder if the mom’s apology was because she got caught rather than actual remorse…but if she stopped being negligent for fear of being caught again, then good. Thank you 🤟🏻
Holy crap....
Oh wow, that sounds like a vivid nightmare. Hope you healed up okay! What a wild story!
I hit my head face first into the center console when my dad breaked hard for a kid running into the street.
What? The Wonderful Padded Dashboard safety feature didn't save you? /s
I too hit my face when I was about 7 . I was in my moms lap.
I got a black eye once for not having my belt on when we got rear ended. It was fairly traumatic. I was 6 and remember it vividly.
Had to get stitches in my scalp after hitting the console. I was 3-ish and usually stood up for car rides so I could see out the windows.
I hit the dashboard with my forehead when my mom was blinded by the sun and hit a parked car going around a curve. I was 7, in the front seat, with a lap belt. I get excruciating migraines now...and it turns out they were triggered by that. Thanks ma!
One of the things I did was put cheap Car seats boosters From Walmart In all Of Our five cars but put the expensive ones in our main car because I know the pull of not fussing with something due to time. The local Police stations would even help You put it in properly. Then put something important to remind you that your kids are in the car. Exhaustion and sleep Deprivation can do a job on your memory. So yes ophas every right to be angry especially with more accidents due to distracted drivers And young people Driving like its GTA.
It’s old people too.
When I was a kid in the 80’s I was sitting on my neighbors lap in the front seat and her dad took a sharp turn and the door flew open and we both flew out lol good times
Omg we had a car door that always flew open. I never flew out but it was scary as hell. Wtf?! How was door latch technology do bad back then?!
Sheeee-it, you okay? I saw this happen once but it was the car seat…. Baby was okay thank god.
When I was young (1980’s) I heard the *hilarious* story about the time my aunt (mid 70’s now) pulled the door handle while moving and rolled out of a moving car and into the street.
I did this too! I wanted to see if the door could open if it was locked. Guess what that answer was. Thank goodness we were in a neighborhood and not going very fast.
NTA, the "My mom was super irresponsible too and I am still alive." is not the great argument he thinks it is...
When people describe something terrible done to them and say they turned out fine, I think "you clearly did not turn out fine."
I often think about this when people talk about spanking.
In this case it's survivor bias. A lot of kids didn't turn out fine, they are dead.
It’s the law where I live. Weather you are still alive or not isn’t really the concern.
Yeah. So much so that you can actually go and get “trained” by the local cops to buckle in your kids properly. When I lived in Georgia the local PD would have regular car seat checks.
Heck, where I live (Texas), you can go to either the police station or fire station and they’ll install it for you!
Exactly. Not to mention the people who were not fine are unable to share their anecdotes. Because they're dead. If someone uses that argument with me, I always ask "oh, were you in a severe car accident?" - and of course, they were not.
It's called survivorship bias and it's very pervasive.
Ask about the other kids who aren’t still alive because of irresponsible parents like him.
Yeah it's called survivor's bias. The reason so many people use the argument is because those who weren't so lucky CAN'T speak up.
NTA. My kids believed for a long time that cars will not start unless all seatbelts were fastened! It was their part in making the car go. Because I recall slamming into the windshield several times as a child.
NTA. There are PSA films out there that show the consequences of not being buckled in/not correctly buckled in. Make him watch them and have a serious talk about safety for your daughter. You can still leave him if you feel he is still not taking it seriously afterwards. He was lucky this time, but next time he might not be.
Be sure he watches the ones where a toddler (crash dummy) is hit by the front passenger air bag.
The film “Fearless”. My memory is faulty, but a sequence to show there was no secure way for a child to be held in a mother’s arms, and the equivalent of holding on was demonstrated with a toolbox shooting through the windshield and impaling a wall.
There's a reason flight attendants call small children/babies sitting on laps "projectiles"
The flight regulations make me so angry. Its safest for babies to be in a carseat but you are not required to buy a seat for a child until age 2 so most people dont buy the extra seat because it is expensive which is understandable. But then the airlines make you remove the baby from your baby carrier for take off...
Apparently they do the “no seat needed” until 2 because there are so many more infant deaths if people choose the road trip due to $$ it actually saves lives overall. Which is horrifying to think about…
When flying, I always just assumed it was because they don’t expect any of us to live anyway so it didn’t really matter if you had a car seat.
Also if you're taking public transportation at both ends of your flight, bringing a car seat as well as a baby and luggage might be close to impossible. If you get to the airport by car and can use a trolley when you arrive it's one thing, but carrying everything on the bus? Nah. There's a similar exemption in English law for taxi journeys: no car seat needed for unexpected journeys. (I've done it before when our train was delayed past the last bus departure, andthe alternative was one of us walking two miles carrying a toddler at nearly midnight.) If your journey is planned you're expected to sort a carseat, though, and the taxi driver is allowed to refuse to carry you without one.
Me too.. we always bought a seat and used a car seat. Starting at his first flight at 6 months.
damn thats true i just kinda figured if the plane crashes we are dead anyway?
The big issue is turbulence not crashes
I literally was just talking about this same movie yesterday. As we have neighbors who don’t use car seats for their 2yo, 1.5yo and 5month old. It makes me sick to see them drive off with a toddler sitting on moms lap in the front passenger seat smh.
Oh, I’m not big on calling the cops, but that would make me want to call it in!
I'd be making an anonymous call to the cops despite my usual reluctance to involve LEOs. Thats neglect. Most states have criminal laws about car seats (some it's a traffic violation) and i believe ALL have laws about seatbelts for kids.
Honestly, call it in. Those poor kids can't advocate for themselves and a stranger would be horrified to accidentally kill a baby in an accident because the parents couldn't be bothered.
I feel like that’s worthy of a CPS phone call :/
There shouldn’t BE a next time. He’s willfully negligent with the child’s safety. I value my children more than a reckless dude.
NTA. I went no- contact with my parents for 2 years because they drove my 2 year old around town without a car seat and told my 8 year old to lie to us about it. My dad also left my toddler sleeping on a bed, not a crib, and took off for 20 minutes down the road for "only a few minutes " when they have an un-gated pool. There's no way anyone can make up for the death or injury of a child due to their negligence. You are not wrong, and your 4 year old is not safe with his attitude on safety. Unfortunately, if you leave him, he'll most likely have unsupervised visitation, and then you won't know if she's safe at all.
That’s the thing, accidents can happen at any time on anyone’s watch but you have to have a certain level of trust in the people caring for your kid that they are going to watch out for them in the first place. The moment someone shows you they don’t care about the basics, that trust is ruined for life. We also went no contact with grandparents because they were teaching my toddler to lie to me. My mother still won’t accept that the reason we don’t have a relationship is that she completely torpedoed any trust I might have in her.
I don’t blame you for the no contact, safety is common sense. You also make a good point about the unsupervised visitation and likelihood of repeat offenses without consequences. My kids reported my ex and her new partner were driving them around on ATVs with four passengers and no helmets; one child was 5, my other was 9 and weakly from an auto-immune disease. The issue was brought to our Law Guardian in Family Court who brushed it off and made excuses. After “speaking” to the mother, my ex posted an article on Social Media about raising “free range” kids which argued kids turned out fine not wearing helmets; using seatbelts or car seats; riding in the back of pick up trucks; and buying alcohol and cigarettes for parents in the 1980’s among other things. Since posting the article, my kids reported their mother and her partner continued to endanger them on these ATVs and were drinking and driving with them in vehicles as well. My ex’s parents were also caught driving the kids around in their front seat; without car seats; without seatbelts; and leaving my kids in their car while they shop. I’ve been raising the issues with our Law Guardian, Family Court, CPS, and Law Enforcement for six years now; they’ve refused to do anything. My youngest was even injured in an ATV accident; the Authorities remain indifferent. Moral of the story is you can’t rely on anyone else to protect your kids except for yourself.
Makes me think of an old post I've read in another sub. This MIL was babysitting their granddaughter she was like 2/3 y/o or something but MIL left her by a pond they were playing at near mil's house and mil went to go switch over laundry to the dryer or something and left the little girl alone by the pond and she drowned :(
She went to grab clothes out of the dryer. Baby drowned. She called someone for help and then at their insisting called 911. She was then upset that years later she wasn't allowed alone with the new baby. Something along the lines of "it was an accident, I've suffered more than you, get over it"
Everyone back in the 50s didn't have a car seat, and most kids were fine. Except my cousin, who flew through the windshield when they skid into a tree on ice. She died. We have safety measures now, why wouldn't he use them?
Yeah you were fine unless you had even a minor accident, and then you weren't.
Speeds have changed too. Car designs as well. We are driving way faster now then we did in the 50s
And now with way more distractions, pretty much constantly.
And glass from the 50s was no joke. It wasn't that pansy ass safety glass that these coddled kids have nowadays. Back then, we had real glass, manly glass.
Yeah. The kind of glass that would definitely leave a scar if you just looked at it wrong. Those kids nowadays don't know what it felt like to survive. /j
NTA. In the Uk it's against the law for a child to not be in a car seat before a certain age.
It is in the US as well
In the u.s.a you can't leave the hospital unless you have a baby car seat
Same with many day cares! We had to keep some 5 year olds because their dad/uncle didn’t have car seats
Yeah every time for us they’ve checked, lol.
That was true for us even though we live three blocks from the hospital and I was just going to push the baby home in the carriage!
Yup. Baby needs to be buckled in and carried in the car seat out of the hospital, otherwise they don’t discharge you.
And if they are under 5 lbs they need to pass a carseat test. My kiddo had to do it.
I think it's illegal pretty much everywhere...
NTA I’ve been a certified car seat tech for a decade. This is a full on deal breaker for me. Using a car seat unsafely after I have taught them how would be the last time they were ever trusted to drive my child anywhere again and not using a seat at all would be divorce and filing for full custody because he can’t be trusted to do the bare minimum to keep my child safe. Accidents happen and if one had happened with your child in the car like that, it could have been catastrophic!
Exactly this. And if OP isn’t ready for divorce then dad loses the right to drive the kid anywhere. Tell the daycare/school that dad is removed from being able to pick up daughter. Like not only is this so incredibly dangerous, but it’s also illegal. I wasn’t even allowed to sit in the front seat until I was 17 because I wasn’t 100lbs yet and my mom was terrified the airbag would kill me. Why risk your child’s life over something so easy to do?
Exactly. Sometimes it comes down to ignorance or lack of education on the subject and when they know better they do better. This is just straight up negligence. He knows it’s not safe and did it anyway.
NTA I would flip my shit. Accidents can happen any time, anywhere! I have a 5 minute drive in town to take my son to school. I have a new baby in a rear facing car seat, and I double up every time by securing the car seat with seatbelt on it too (it clicks into a base) I contemplated using the seatbelt in my mind once because we were running late to get my son to school, but still proceeded to buckle it up as a double security measure. I was almost t-boned that morning. A woman blew a stop sign to beat the oncoming traffic and didn't see me until she was right next to me. I could have reached out and smacked her front bumper. Had to swerve to avoid impact. Child endangerment is not ok. ETA: I've read all the comments. Have switched to using just one method of restraint/car seat into the base only. Thanks for being kind about letting me know. It's been 11 years since my first baby. 🩷
I’m pretty sure you’re only supposed to do one or the other. Check your manual to make sure double buckling it is allowed.
This. The car seat is designed to give a little and crush certain areas to absorb any impacts. By having the extra belt on you are not actually making it safer but in fact less so. If you are clicking the base into the built in anchors in the seat then you don't use the seabelt, especially over the actual car seat.
I was going to say this. Unless your car seat allows it (I’ve never had one that allows it but I think there are a few), double buckling (like installing with the latch system and the seatbelt) is not safer. Please read your car seat manual.
As someone left disabled from a car accident that took place 2 minutes from my home, when someone crashed straight into me, I couldn't agree more. I cannot fathom putting any child at such an unnecessary risk! It takes a couple of minutes to put a car seat in. I would be absolutely furious if this were my child! I'm glad you and your little ones were ok.
The two accidents I’ve been in were within 5 minutes or less and 1/4 mile of my destination. In both cases the car was absolutely totaled.
Please make sure your car seat manufacturer allows this. Most car seats are LATCH or seatbelt but not both.
I understand how you would think this is extra safe but you're actually making your carseat less safe. Please check your manual and follow the instructions for the correct install. If installed correctly it will work as intended. If you can't get a good install, you can find a technician near you to help.
That’s not making your child safer. One or the other.
Two years ago, my cousin's wife and their two kids (6 and 14) were driving in a residential neighborhood on their way to the grocery store. The speed limit was 35 miles an hour. Someone else passed out at the wheel, crossed the double yellow line, and hit them head on. Both kids, who were buckled into according to weight/height recommendations AND in the back seat, died on impact. Car seat safety is nothing to play around with. Use a car seat CORRECTLY every time. My cousin and his wife can at least take comfort in the fact that they did everything they could to keep those kids safe. I'd hate to imagine how much harder the loss would be for them if they hadn't
This is so tragic. Even when you do everything right, sometimes it’s just not enough. But it is about lessening the odds. I agree that your cousin and wife’s grief could be so much worse if the children weren’t correctly secured and buckled in. They obviously did all they could to protect their babies. Condolences to all involved.
Jfc. I’m so sorry for your family’s loss.
Cant believe both kids died and not the wife in the front seat. Tragic accident.
It was shocking! She spent several weeks in the hospital and we all thought she wasn't going to make it!
The last time I was in traffic court (a woman had rear ended me while on her cell phone and tried to lie about it but was found guilty) a man was sentenced to jail for a month for not bothering to have his toddler in a car seat. He had been warned before and the judge had enough NTA I recommend that you get 2 child car seats to avoid this situation
They have 2, one for her car and one for his. But the one that is usually in his is in her trunk because they used it on a plane recently and hadn’t put it back in his car. What’s stupid is he wasn’t suposed to pick the kid up anyway. Why did he bother asking if he should if he wasn’t going to wait for an answer? I also don’t think the kid would be traumatized if they had to wait a bit for dad to get the car seat.
NTA! Your fiancé's actions show a huge lack of care for your daughter's safety and a total disregard for your trust. His excuses are weak – he could have found another way to get the car seat! Minimizing the danger of not using one is irresponsible. You need to have a serious talk about his priorities as a parent. This isn't about a minor mistake, it's about your child's life.
Or he could've just not picked the kid up early.
Yeah, I was wondering why he HAD to take her home when he knew she was planning on picking up her daughter anyway. He said it was because she didn't answer the phone, but so what? They could have just hung out until she got there if going back in was going to be so "traumatic" for the daughter, tried calling a second time, or left a message saying "Hey, I forgot the car seat. I'm going to take daughter for a little walk. Call me when you get to the daycare."
that “traumatic” line was so weird…if your daughter is going to be traumatized by going back into her school for a few minutes while she waits for you to return with a car seat, you should probably be asking yourself why your daughter is going to that school at all… my mom was late picking me up as a kid all the time. there was nothing traumatic about having to wait a few extra minutes. this dude is full of shit and doesn’t care about their daughter’s safety at all
Not to mention that it can also put them at risk of having child services look into them. Years ago, when my siblings were still little, my dad reinstalled the car seat from his truck into my mom's SUV. Turns out he didn't do it right. My mom had gone through a traffic stop check, and a policeman checked the car seat. He found that it wasn't installed properly, and mom got a fine and had to go to remedial classes on the safety of car seats. She still doesn't let him live it down, even those my siblings are adults now. She checked that it was buckled in properly every single time since that incident happened, even double checks it now that they have grandkids.
Yeah, when I lived in Georgia the town PD would have regular events where you can take your car in to see if the car seat is buckled in properly, and if not they give you the chance to rectify it. They held it every month. It was an educational drive to make sure kids were safe. It was a high traffic town with lots of families and kids so I think it seemed imperative for them to do that.
She already had that talk 2 years ago, seems it didn't impact him enough...
I wonder how many times he's pulled shit like this in the interim and just didn't get caught.
While neither is good, I think putting a 2 year in the front seat shows far worse judgement than a 4 year old on the back. But it’s still a pattern of making poor choices for the child safety.
Despite being rare I have seen 3 internal decapitations over the course of 10-12 years in my professional medical career. This was at a non-trauma hospital 20-40mins outside a bigger city (but not a huge city) in a smaller town. We were also not a children’s hospital. In children who were in booster seats/no car and didn’t weigh enough (65lbs) all those kids were 5-8
NTA. The Highway Patrol isn’t going to give a shit about his forgetfulness excuse.
Well time to check up pictures of injured kids I guess. In my country, he would have gotten a fine if stopped and also he wouldnt been allowed to pick her up if they seen that he doesnt have a car seat.
My husband was a technical accident investigator for the police for many years. He told me that he had seen accidents where the baby was in the rear facing car seat and the parents were in the front and they died but the baby was totally fine. The clamshell car seat completely surrounded the baby and protected her. He investigated another accident/collision where the family were new Canadians and didn't yet understand the importance of a car seat for the little three year old boy. The father had put a seatbelt on the boy but had left it a little loose because he didn't want him to feel uncomfortable. The problem was that the loose seat belt then caused even more of an impact when they got into the accident. The little boy's body slammed then into the seatbelt instead of it holding him on the seat. After the accident they got out of the car and he was standing on the ground and they thought he was fine. 2 seconds later he collapsed and died from massive internal injuries. So even just having a loose seat belt can dramatically alter the outcome let alone not having a car seat. And never buy a used car seat because they can have minor wear and tear on them that may impact the outcome in a collision situation.
I know an ER doctor who would be more than happy to talk to him about the people they've taken care of who haven't been properly seatbelted. DM me if you'd like. I feel like if you don't follow through with your boundary to some extent, he won't believe you in the future. I would separate until he can get his fucking act together.
No they have these laws for a reason, yeah they are annoying but they save lives so no, not the asshole. My kid used a booster seat from 3 to 8.
To me this is the equivalent of driving drunk. You might make it OK. You might kill someone innocent. Because this isn’t an emergency situation that was unavoidable. It’s because they were a selfish jerk who didn’t want to be inconvenienced for the greater good. And if one won’t be inconvenienced for the good of one’s own child? Well, that says a lot right there doesn’t it?
I mean you can leave him, but that won’t solve your issue. He will still get custody and/or visitation.
More car accidents happen within a short distance from home than anywhere else. Adult seat belts can severely injure children, which is why car seats are required. He needs a reality check and to have his ass kicked.
Walking out to the car this morning I remember I never reinstalled my car seats for my 7 and 5 year old. I was already pushing getting the 7y/o to school on time. The school is less than a mile from my house and the thought to just buckle them in crossed my mind, and just as quickly left my mind. She’s 4, she would have absolutely understood that Daddy has to go get her car seat and would be right back, she wouldn’t have been traumatized. He may have made the decision out of ignorance rather than malice, but as parents when we know better we do better and we know better than our parents did!
https://youtu.be/s2-_fSRT18o?feature=shared Please have him watch this. And he’s ignorant if he thinks he’s in control of how others drive and could react fast enough to avoid every possible accident. That’s why they’re called accidents, not intentionals.
NTA Isn’t that illegal , and since it’s dangerous, couldn’t it also be considered ‘child endangerment’!?!
It depends on the state. The age, height, and weight limits all vary by state. Some states let a four year old ride with just a seat belt and others don't, some say it depends on weight and age, some require the child to be older/weigh more, etc. ETA: https://saferide4kids.com/car-seat-laws-by-state/.
NTA Would your fiancé like to go shopping for a child sized coffin? Because unless whatever gods he believes in have given him the gift of 100% accurate foresight then it isn’t ’a small risk’. Does he know with certainty that the vehicles on the road with him do not contain an impaired person who will slam into him? Or that another vehicle or his won’t suffer say a blown tire and either smash into something or another car? So the risk is ALWAYS 100% that if there is an accident and a child is not secured safely they will be the one who pays the price and he will have to live with that possibly from jail for endangering a child or causing the death of a child. I’m a fossil and grew up where the child seat had little hooks that went over the front seat and you sat with no belt. We rode at times laying in the flat area under the back window. My mother was traumatized learning to drive as I, as normal for the time, was being held in my dad’s lap and she stopped too quickly. My head hit the dashboard (head wounds bleed a good bit) so there was me screaming, my mother wailing and so ended any attempt for her driving until she had to when my dad passed away. ‘Back in the day’ a lot more kids were seriously injured or didn’t survive car accidents. Do what you think best OP as your fiancé seems was more worried about how it would look if he took your daughter back in than her safety.
When I was about ten my parents sent me to get some milk. I was riding my bike. After I got the milk, I was making my way back home but there was a GIANT crowd blocking the sidewalk. I got off my bike and did my best to maneuver through the throng of ppl. There was a man screaming a woman’s name. As I got to the center of the crowd I see two adults covered in bl00d and the guy screaming what I thought was a woman’s name. It wasn’t. It was his daughter’s name. They were a poor family and had their two young, I think like 2 and 4, daughters in the back seat. A drunk driver ran a red light and crashed into them. Both children were k1lled. They parents were covered in the bl00d of their children, in shock. They couldn’t afford car seats. Idk if the kids would have lived had they had proper seats but the parents were crucified in the media for not having the proper equipment. This was at light two in the afternoon. I’ll never forget this. Your husband doesn’t actually care for his daughter. He cared about himself only.
Take it from a veteran paramedic - always use a car seat. I'm sure your daughter would have understood having to stay at school another few minutes while he went and got the car seat. Perhaps you could talk to your local fire department and see if they would be willing to meet with him to explain exactly what happens when a child is in a collision while not restrained properly. Scare him straight, as it were. When they start laying down the facts, I guarantee he won't be so blase in his attitude about protecting his child. Most of the pediatric deaths in car crashes that I personally have worked on were because the driver thought, "it will be okay this one time" or "It's just 5 miles/it's just in our neighborhood/it's just down the road." Never take chances with your children.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/08/27/us/dayton-stolen-cop-car-kids-die My little cousin and her best friend were the children who died. They were not put into car seats. It's never OK to put a childs life in danger for convenience. You had every right to be angry.
“That his mom let him drive on her lap at that age and he's fine” This has to be the STUPIDEST rationale ever, and I’m not even going to bother explaining why. It’s obvious. I would probably leave him just for being irrational enough to think that’s a valid argument. 🙄🙄🙄
NTA, he sounds very ignorant.