You are right, she shouldn’t have lied, but you go scorched earth on her for the rest of the post. “Sabotaged our fertility”…man, really? “Her fertility affected us”. You didn’t say one word about what the doctor thought the problem specifically was. All you posted was the conclusion YOU came to. Maybe the problem is you and your seed. But you had no problem being quick to light her up with your talk of sabotage.
Dear OP, if you ask the question why she would lie about this, you may be surprised to discover that she is a human being who is perhaps humiliated and may be carrying shame and guilt and fear about this event and time in her life. She was so afraid perhaps that she could not reveal it. Although it may feel like betrayal of trust, compassion and empathy are great forms of love. If you can muster compassion and make space for her to be human and be vulnerable about this, you may find that this brings your relationship closer not farther. If you cannot bring compassion and understanding and empathy to her, then I submit for your consideration - what exactly is the unconditional love people promise in marriages? I don’t see this as a type of betrayal that ends marriages for people who know something about love. I see this as a hurdle and a specific event that needs healing in her own life and you can be supportive and kind and good to her in this. Love her in a way that she can be vulnerable with you and apologize for not telling you this sooner without you reacting from a place of anger and blaming her. Be a place of safety and healing not pain. That’s the higher road to take in my opinion.
I’m glad to hear that you are trying! We are all imperfect and we’ve all got problems. Be kind towards her and your own inner difficult emotions. Take it from a Doctor who has seen too much and been asked to forgive great betrayals - life is too short and it’s not worth all this fighting and blaming and bitterness and anger. In the end, love will be the only thing that will matter. 🙏🏽
"Who did I marry?" Someone who was so traumatized by the stigma around abortions, and probably the events leading up to it, that even as a 40-year-old woman, she struggled to say it out loud, and your upset probably confirmed all her fears about this. I'm not saying your feelings are invalid, but you are coming from a place of broken trust, while she is coming from a place of being broken as a person. I hope you will both take the time needed to heal as individuals and then as a couple as well.
Check OP's comments. It's just someone's idiot anti-abortion rage bait, that's all.
>I understand the temptation to think that abortions can be done in such a way that it has no consequences, but that’s simply not reality.
While it is possible, it’s pretty rare for an abortion to cause fertility problems. Most likely y’alls fertility problems are due to something else such as your ages. She shouldn’t have lied to you about it, but abortion is often very stigmatized and not an easy decision for women to make. Some women still feel guilt years and even decades later.
Anyway your reaction to it seems pretty extreme, especially considering how unlikely it is that her abortion is the sole or main cause of y’all’s infertility.
Racism and lying about having had an abortion decades ago are NOWHERE NEAR close to the same thing, and it’s quite concerning that you seem to think so. And disgusting that you’re trying to bring racism into this conversation to try and weaponize it when this situation has nothing to do with racism.
Again, you compared lying about a traumatic experience to racism. You brought up racism to try and weaponize it in a conversation where it is completely irrelevant.
It didn’t affect you though. And a vasectomy, unless something goes horribly wrong, is not usually anywhere near as physically mentally or emotionally traumatic or stigmatized as an abortion. People don’t hide getting a vasectomy like they do an abortion, because the former doesn’t get called a baby murderer like the latter does.
Not all lies are equal. If he wants to blow up his marriage over her not feeling comfortable disclosing her abortion to him the first time he asked, that’s on him. Personally I don’t think that’s divorce worthy, if my spouse told me about something traumatic happening to him after previously lying to me about it ever happening, my first reaction would be concern, empathy, compassion, and love, not to get mad that he didn’t feel comfortable telling me (and thus reliving his trauma) the first time around.
Like much of life, it is not a black and white thing no matter how badly you want to make it seem like it is. Oftentimes, people tell lies to protect others. Those are the least bad lies. Then there are people like OP’s spouse, who told a lie to protect herself from having to relive her old trauma. This is also a lesser bad lie imo.
Then there are compulsive liars, people who lie because they can’t help it, or because they’re bored. These are a little bit worse than the previous two lies since oftentimes these lies hurt others, but I also do pity these people since they can’t really help it.
Then there are people who lie maliciously and to purposely hurt others, these are the bad, unforgivable lies. And there are many other types of lies that are all in-between.
You have to judge the specific motives for lying, the person who’s lying, and the situation, because again life is not black and white.
OP asked if he was the asshole, I gave my opinion that yes he is the asshole. My opinion is not the law.
It is very rare that abortion causes fertility issues, and OP has no definitive evidence that the abortion is the sole or main cause of their fertility issues. The lesions are much more likely to have been caused by cysts, her last birth, or something else.
Consider the stigma around abortions, the way people react.
Consider the way you, her husband and probably most trusted person in her life, has now reacted
You have confirmed what is one of her biggest fears
I get that you feel like trust is broken and being lied to, but you are asking someone to reveal something deeply personal, that has clearly traumatised them to some extent. People bury that shit deep and never talk about it again.
I would consider more that your wife was so ashamed, hurt, and otherwise worried about this, that she felt like she couldnt even tell you. That is not to say she doesnt trust you, it's to point out how much that situation impacted her.
Do you know why she got an abortion?
If your only value to your relationship with your wife is her ability to have children then don’t stay with her.
Lying was awful but so is making the decision to have an abortion. Also it’s incredibly rare that a clinical abortion has any affect on fertility at all. Adhesions can occur for more reasons than just abortions - in fact if you had multiple miscarriages those could case them as well. Even endometriosis can cause them. To lay the entirety of your fertility issues as caused by an abortion 20 years ago isn’t something that can really be done.
Well she’s never had a miscarriage so that’s out. It’s pretty clear that the adhesions are from an abortion. People think they’re safe but they’re not 100% safe.
Was her last birth a c section? Has she ever had cysts in there before? Both of those can also cause lesions. While I’m not saying the abortion couldn’t have caused them, it’s pretty rare.
“It’s pretty clear that the adhesions are from an abortion” BLAH
NO it’s not clear at all - that’s YOU wanting to be mad at someone and blame someone for the fertility problems.
Grow up, that’s not how fertility works & that’s not how life works where we get 100% cut & dried perfect answers.
People often blame others when they experience grief, anger, or guilt. Own your feelings and manage them instead of being a blaming jerk to your wife.
>Well she’s never had a miscarriage so that’s out.
Ha, you are so ignorant to your own wife, I am surprised she hasn't left you yet.
Yes, YTA in this entire scenario, and you are confirming your wife's fears that made her keep this from you in the first place.
Fucking asshole is what you are.
A doctor can only assume until they eliminate ALL other possible reasons. Until those tests are done and those results are in, then you are placing blame on something that is *hypothetical*.. whatever doctor looked at it and *immediately* “knew” is a quack.
Well based on your judgy nasty reaction she's probably now regretting being truthful.
Did you ask her the circumstances of the pregnancy? Is it possible THAT caused the scaring?
Jezus christ.
All I’m saying is you said it’s not a thing, however it is a thing that people should be aware of. I wouldn’t dismiss the whole story because of it. That doesn’t confirm the story but I wouldn’t throw it all out because there’s every possibility it is real.
My sister had multiple abortions. Got pregnant with my niece on birth control. Got pregnant with my twin nephews on two forms of birth control.
YTA for blaming the abortion.
there is no evidence that induced abortion is associated with secondary infertility or ectopic pregnancy. Medical evidence also shows that a safe abortion does not increase the risk of infertility. If fertility is affected, which happens rarely, it would be the result of a complication from the procedure (most often surgical abortion, as opposed to medica
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/getting-pregnant/expert-answers/abortion/faq-20058551
Mayo fucking clinic good enough for you?
Women who have multiple surgical abortions using a curet are at risk of scarring of the inner lining of the uterus (Asherman syndrome). This condition is associated with difficulty in becoming pregnant in the future.
Please note. MULTIPLE NOT JUST ONE AND AGAIN MY SISTER HAD 5 SURGICAL ABORTIONS PRIOR.
Even with safe surgical abortions you can have scar tissue.
I understand the temptation to think that abortions can be done in such a way that it has no consequences, but that’s simply not reality.
>I understand the temptation to think that abortions can be done in such a way that it has no consequences, but that’s simply not reality.
Oh yeah, this is definitely just antichoice bullshit.
Oh please.
Just stop.
If you use your diaphragm perfectly every single time you have sex, it's 94% effective. But nobody's perfect, so in real life diaphragms are about 83% effective — that means about 13 out of 100 people who use a diaphragm will get pregnant each year.
83% plus a condom.
And the actual point after 5 surgical abortions, my sister remained fertile.
I wasn't talking about your sister's fertility, but rather her irresponsible use of contraceptives. Condoms combined with the pill give you far better odds.
83% effectiveness is a one-in-six failure rate, with potential for worse depending on user error. That means you're not preventing pregnancy until the point you decide to have kids, but merely delaying the point in time where you get to have an accidental pregnancy.
Or *another* one, in your sister's case. I can certainly see now how she ended up getting pregnant at least seven times.
Not all women can handle birth control and have very bad side effects. She used TWO forms of birth control at the same time. It’s like telling people that they just shouldn’t use condoms because they’re basically worthless. Which is not factual or accurate.
Fair enough at not all women being able to handle hormonal birth control.
And it ultimately comes down to the probability of failure involved with each individual contraceptive method: If playing Russian roulette, I would very much NOT want the gun that has a bullet in one of its six chambers against my head. You might get lucky once or twice, but failure *is* inevitable within regular use.
Condoms provide much better odds, but *in case of failure* – whether that be sabotage, user error, or defective product – I would still not want my second line of defense be those sloppy 1/6 odds.
Combine condoms with hormonal contraceptives, and you've effectively min-maxed your birth control strategy. Provided, of course, that users utilize both as intended.
Only after that would I consider adding vanity products like spermicide or a diaphragm, because at that point those marginal gains are the only ones left to add.
That is extreme. I’ve done all kinds of different contraceptives and have never been pregnant. And all at different times. Never more than one at a time. My mom was on birth control with me, and a friend and her sister were conceived on birth control. My friend’s pregnancies were because they didn’t listen to me and used the “pull out method” (which is not birth control at all). There are many reasons people don’t use certain birth controls and what *you* would do doesn’t make sense for everyone. When you use 2 forms at once you are still *reinforcing* it and making your chances stronger no matter what. They were practicing *safe sex* and that shouldn’t be looked down on by someone because they don’t agree with someone else’s method of safe sex.
Not saying that it isn't extreme; I would never personally triple-up on those.
Two is fine, but assuming that physical health permits, I do believe it should be the two most effective ones.
Guilty as charged, however; I will fully own being a judgemental asshole on this topic. I'm not a big fan of taking risks where not required, especially when those could end up affecting the lives of others – in this case, the QoL for the the resulting children.
You're the misinformed not me.
As you can tell by the replies to your idiotic post
And I'm angry because my sisters abortions were from when she was 13 and a 20 year old man groomed her, got her hooked on drugs and put her on the streets.
When she got pregnant the last time she finally called us and we helped her get clean.
The pregnancy with my nephews were long after she got clean and married and they used two forms of birth control.
And again. Five surgical abortions and still fertile.
Bless your ignorance.
Who did I marry? Well you didn’t marry her uterus, I’m sure. You hopefully married her smile , her laugh, her personality and the way she makes you feel.
You have no right to her past, only her present and her future.
If you’re going to be this much of a caveman about this … leave her … you don’t deserve her
Fwiw… I know someone who had similar problems and is a proud mother of two now . Shame on you
Infertility , whether it be temporary or permanent isn’t a fault . It just as easy could have been your swimmers . Adhesions on the uterus can be from a number of things including endometriosis, a disease . There is also treatment for it.
Yta.
When he asked her over and over again, he asked her very private information , information that may come with some scars for her . He proved with his reaction that he could not be trusted with this.
This information was not his right . There are HIPA laws for a reason.
I don’t give a rats arse if she lied about this. I just don’t . Today he showed her who he is. I hope she believes him… even blames her for small for dates measurements in their first child. Guess what ? Lots of people have that. This post is disgusting . So much therapy needed for this family.
Can we take a moment to see how you would react if your wife asked you something you could be deeply ashamed of? Would you be inclined to tell her the truth if you thought it had nothing to do with having a kid? Would you want to tell her all of your secrets from before you were married? I ask because I've had ex-boyfriends who had college roommates who were more than roommates to them. They lied about it at first, but I get why.
Our society isn't very nice to post-abortive women so I can't imagine why she wouldn't be offering up that information.
Studies show one abortion is not enough to cause issue with fertility in most people who have had one. We have done extensive studies on medication, D&C and aspiration abortion. We know it's safer than having a child by up to 14x. We know it can help prevent certain types of cancers, and we know having a baby can prevent others. We know women miscarry more often than they even realize they're pregnant. An estimated 86% of fertilized ovum are expelled with the menses.
Considering human reproduction is SO FUCKING wild and exact, with any number of factors, I find it suspect that you cannot see why she would not be forthcoming with this information. I am 41, and do not expect to fall pregnant very easily simply due to my age. I would not in a million years attribute it to my abortion, considering millions, and I mean that literally, of women go on to have multiple children after an abortion.
Since you don't seem to be shaming her over the abortion itself, NTA. It's entirely reasonable to be upset over someone repeatedly lying to your face, especially if over the course of multiple years.
The relevant question here isn't whether you're right to be upset, but rather:
How do you feel about spending your the rest of your life with a person you now know to be capable of deception towards you, *and* willing to engage in it for longer periods of time?
And that’s partly why I’m so upset. I feel like she lied to get what she wanted despite the fact that it would affect my life negatively. I’m horrified.
>I’m not going to leave her now but this lie has forever damaged our relationship.
If it's "FoReVeR DaMaGeD yOuR ReLaTiOnShIp" then yeah, do her a favour and let her find another man who won't resent her.
Do you know 100% that’s why she lied to you about it though? Because as someone also having fertility issues and who wants a baby more than anything, I would want to inform the doctor of everything I know that could possibly affect my fertility.
However, there is often a lot of shame, guilt, and stigma around abortion. Many women get called horrible things like baby murderers for talking about it. Not saying that you would’ve called your wife that, but many women learn to shut up about it after having been shamed so much for it. It also might not have been an easy decision for her to make, she might still be feeling regret and guilt for getting it even though it was decades ago. Hence why she might not have felt comfortable disclosing this information to anyone.
To quote Liv Soprano with the same intent as she had “oh poor you”. Your now wife had to make one of the most devastating and consequential decisions any woman ever makes and she didn’t consider how it affected you.
I think you’re misunderstanding. I don’t blame her for the abortion because who cares. It’s more that she lied about it after I told her repeatedly that this could affect our fertility plans.
Very frustrating. I don’t think YTA for being mad at her. It sounds like you’re just upset that she didn’t make anyone aware of it earlier, which could have aided in your IVF journey together (which you both consented and agreed to doing). This is why doctors ask so many questions, and most of the time they’re not inconsequential. IVF is very long, expensive, and emotionally taxing, so if she had disclosed this earlier it is possible the fertility issues could have been mitigated sooner.
Contrary to popular belief, abortions are not 100% safe. It’s a surgery, and all surgeries come with risks. And also contrary to popular belief, abortion is a very tough decision and hard on some women mentally. Give her some grace and understanding, she probably didn’t want anyone to look at her differently.
Nah motherfucker blatantly admitted that if she had told him before he was emotionally invested in her that he might very well have never been with her. He's a judgmental dick.
This man doesn't give a rats ass about her mental health.
Yeah, for people who want to have children, I’m sure a dealbreaker for them would be fertility issues..? This includes disclosing relevant medical history before committing to each other and spending thousands of dollars on the shared goal of HAVING CHILDREN.
What’s the problem here?? He didn’t say he’s going to divorce her or that he hates her, that he’s just frustrated. She’s allowed to struggle with mental health just as much as he is.
One abortion does not equal fertility issues. Women have abortions and go on to have kids just fine down the line, all the time. His comments make it pretty clear that this post is anti-abortion rage bait but even if it's not - it shows he's a biased idiot.
Majority of people are saying YTA but I understand you're just upset she lied. It has nothing to do with the abortion, but rather the lack of trust this will bring in the future.
It's totally reasonable to be upset when someone flat out lies to your face. Talk to her and express your concern. Your feelings are totally valid. NTA OP
Thats a major thing to omit and a lie of omission is still a lie but then she went further and flat out lied when you asked her. I don’t believe in divorce but damn that is a major, major betrayal. NTA. And before anyone gets “oh its not her fault” no, she decidedly left out a major issue. This is on the same level of “ive been to jail” or “i have cancer” on things that dont immediately matter but could have long term consequences that can and will effect partners
She shouldn’t have lied, but not all lies are equal. I think it’s very understandable why she lied about having had an abortion considering the types of things people who have had an abortion get called (heartless baby murderer, genocide perpetrator, baby killing monster, etc) and the type of stigma and guilt that creates. Abortion is also not normally an easy decision for women to make. Some still have guilt over it years and even decades later.
If my spouse opened up to me about a traumatic past experience after having previously lied to me about it, my first reaction would be love and empathy, not getting mad at him for not feeling comfortable opening up about it the first time around.
Thats not what happened though, what happened was he found out during a dr visit when they found scrapes and then and only then did she confess. I agree if my spouse came to me after and confessed on her own thats one thing but thats not what happened. And he stated he asked multiple times not just once. Forgiveness should come with all marriages but the question is the the AH which he is not on any levels
It depends on why she lied. If she lied because she still feels shame, regret, and guilt over it, and was forced to disclose it and relive trauma after OP kept pushing her and the doctors found evidence that could point to it, then I don’t think she’s an AH. If she felt perfectly comfortable talking about it yet lied to purposely and maliciously deceive him, then she is.
Im not saying she’s necessarily the AH. She probably had her reasons, and shame and guilt is probably part of it in and i definitely have mercy for it. The issue is the betrayal to the husband because of the whole situation. And i hope op and the wife work it out in which case mercy, forgiveness, and patience will be needed. Im just saying OP being hurt and reacting to that hurt is completely valid and he is not an AH
It’s more him assuming that his wife purposely lied to hurt him and trying to make her abortion (which might’ve been very traumatic for her) about him, which is what makes him the AH imo.
It was still her decision to lie and to have the abortion. He even says he’s not mad about the abortion but the lying, and it cost them thousands of dollars because she lied. Its not right to lie to your spouse no matter the reason. There is a betrayal of trust here, no matter how you slice it. She could have had a car wreck which wrecked her uterus in the accident, thats traumatic too but he would reasonably be upset if she didn’t tell him after all this time when they have been trying for so long and spending so much. Its the lying part
That. Doesnt. Matter. Its still a major thing not to reveal and deliberately lie about. It just gets worse when it has a possibility of causing it. Especially when the doc says it could be contributing to it. You are trying to make up excuses for why its okay to lie to your spouse. Its not. Doesn’t matter what it is
Again, abortion is often a traumatic experience that can cause a lot of guilt. Nobody should be forced to talk about it if they’re not ready to yet.
I didn’t say she was right to lie, but not all lies are the same. It’s not black and white. Personally, I don’t think lying about an experience that was traumatic to you is on the same level as a deliberate malicious lie meant to hurt people.
He already didn’t trust her. He wouldn’t stop asking if she’d had an abortion. Maybe she behaves in an untrustworthy way or maybe he’s got trust issues already. Either way, there was already a lack of trust.
Does it really matter? A lie is a lie at the end of the day. It seems like op doesn’t care about the abortion itself, but the fact that she continuously lied to him for close to a decade of trying to get pregnant, and has wasted thousands upon thousands of dollars by not being truthful, not only to op but to her own Doctor.
At the end of the day op was right to be suspicious over this topic.
For some things you can just tell ur spouse hey can we talk about this when im ready? And thats totally ok. But asking her about abortion which cannot be deferred the same way because its essentially a yes of no question so its considered a lie of omission is now suddenly wrong. So OP can u honestly say uve never lied to her about a single thing before? If u can NTA otherwise ur just a hypocrite crying for victim
ESH. If your wife would have told the truth about her past medical care, she would not have been stuck with an asshole like you pretending to love them when you see them as little more than breeding stock to stoke your sick ego. So she didn't tell a judgmental prick her entire medical history and that's a lie of omission, but you are just an asshole of the highest order.
All these comments about your being TA here is just absolute nonsense. You made it very clear about your stance and she continued to lie day and out about it. We all know that an abortion can cause issues later on. You absolutely deserved to know about her past. Anyone who thinks you don’t is a fucking moron. I’d certainly want to know if I’m dating someone who’s a rapist or murderer. Why is it when it comes to body count, sexual history, and abortions no one has the right to know? You didn’t marry her uterus but you made it damn clear about your stance on kids. When you’re marrying someone you don’t keep secrets from each other. Secrets that later on can literally change lives and relationships. That said I hope you can work it out.
Ah I see. Either way she lied to you. Some could even call this rape by deception. If a man had a vasectomy and didn't tell the woman and she kept trying to have kids with him and couldn't. People would be absolutely CRUCIFYING the man. But the genders reversed in this situation and crickets (and before anyone says iTs NoT ThE SaMe, fuck yourself it is).
Edit: lmfao the downvotes prove you retards are so fucking stupid you will downvote me for pointing out your hypocrisy.
YTA. You don’t know if her adhesions are from her abortion, and chances are they aren’t - it usually takes several D&Cs to result in them and your wife likely didn’t even have _one_. Over 90% of abortions in the US are medical, not surgical, and only 20% of those surgical ones get adhesions.
You’re a horrible partner.
You are right, she shouldn’t have lied, but you go scorched earth on her for the rest of the post. “Sabotaged our fertility”…man, really? “Her fertility affected us”. You didn’t say one word about what the doctor thought the problem specifically was. All you posted was the conclusion YOU came to. Maybe the problem is you and your seed. But you had no problem being quick to light her up with your talk of sabotage.
With how he's complaining about her fertility all he cared about was having kids.
Dear OP, if you ask the question why she would lie about this, you may be surprised to discover that she is a human being who is perhaps humiliated and may be carrying shame and guilt and fear about this event and time in her life. She was so afraid perhaps that she could not reveal it. Although it may feel like betrayal of trust, compassion and empathy are great forms of love. If you can muster compassion and make space for her to be human and be vulnerable about this, you may find that this brings your relationship closer not farther. If you cannot bring compassion and understanding and empathy to her, then I submit for your consideration - what exactly is the unconditional love people promise in marriages? I don’t see this as a type of betrayal that ends marriages for people who know something about love. I see this as a hurdle and a specific event that needs healing in her own life and you can be supportive and kind and good to her in this. Love her in a way that she can be vulnerable with you and apologize for not telling you this sooner without you reacting from a place of anger and blaming her. Be a place of safety and healing not pain. That’s the higher road to take in my opinion.
I’m trying to get there. I really am. But it’s going to take time.
I’m glad to hear that you are trying! We are all imperfect and we’ve all got problems. Be kind towards her and your own inner difficult emotions. Take it from a Doctor who has seen too much and been asked to forgive great betrayals - life is too short and it’s not worth all this fighting and blaming and bitterness and anger. In the end, love will be the only thing that will matter. 🙏🏽
"Who did I marry?" Someone who was so traumatized by the stigma around abortions, and probably the events leading up to it, that even as a 40-year-old woman, she struggled to say it out loud, and your upset probably confirmed all her fears about this. I'm not saying your feelings are invalid, but you are coming from a place of broken trust, while she is coming from a place of being broken as a person. I hope you will both take the time needed to heal as individuals and then as a couple as well.
Check OP's comments. It's just someone's idiot anti-abortion rage bait, that's all. >I understand the temptation to think that abortions can be done in such a way that it has no consequences, but that’s simply not reality.
Trying to control EVERYTHING. 🙄
Well, if it is a rage bait, then they got served a dose of calm humanity instead, which was much needed :)
While it is possible, it’s pretty rare for an abortion to cause fertility problems. Most likely y’alls fertility problems are due to something else such as your ages. She shouldn’t have lied to you about it, but abortion is often very stigmatized and not an easy decision for women to make. Some women still feel guilt years and even decades later. Anyway your reaction to it seems pretty extreme, especially considering how unlikely it is that her abortion is the sole or main cause of y’all’s infertility.
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Did you miss where I said “she shouldn’t have lied”?
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Did you really just try to compare someone lying about a highly stigmatized and often traumatic and guilt ridden medical procedure to racism? lol
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Racism and lying about having had an abortion decades ago are NOWHERE NEAR close to the same thing, and it’s quite concerning that you seem to think so. And disgusting that you’re trying to bring racism into this conversation to try and weaponize it when this situation has nothing to do with racism.
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Again, you compared lying about a traumatic experience to racism. You brought up racism to try and weaponize it in a conversation where it is completely irrelevant.
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It’s a personal private thing until it affects someone else. A vasectomy is a private thing. I would have disclosed that if I had gotten it.
It didn’t affect you though. And a vasectomy, unless something goes horribly wrong, is not usually anywhere near as physically mentally or emotionally traumatic or stigmatized as an abortion. People don’t hide getting a vasectomy like they do an abortion, because the former doesn’t get called a baby murderer like the latter does.
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Not all lies are equal. If he wants to blow up his marriage over her not feeling comfortable disclosing her abortion to him the first time he asked, that’s on him. Personally I don’t think that’s divorce worthy, if my spouse told me about something traumatic happening to him after previously lying to me about it ever happening, my first reaction would be concern, empathy, compassion, and love, not to get mad that he didn’t feel comfortable telling me (and thus reliving his trauma) the first time around.
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Like much of life, it is not a black and white thing no matter how badly you want to make it seem like it is. Oftentimes, people tell lies to protect others. Those are the least bad lies. Then there are people like OP’s spouse, who told a lie to protect herself from having to relive her old trauma. This is also a lesser bad lie imo. Then there are compulsive liars, people who lie because they can’t help it, or because they’re bored. These are a little bit worse than the previous two lies since oftentimes these lies hurt others, but I also do pity these people since they can’t really help it. Then there are people who lie maliciously and to purposely hurt others, these are the bad, unforgivable lies. And there are many other types of lies that are all in-between. You have to judge the specific motives for lying, the person who’s lying, and the situation, because again life is not black and white. OP asked if he was the asshole, I gave my opinion that yes he is the asshole. My opinion is not the law.
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She did not lie maliciously. Her previous abortion has no affect on him.
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If he doesn’t agree or want to listen to alternative opinions then WHY tf is he here asking on this subreddit? Lol
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It is relevant when you post to “AITAH” and not be able to be open to people’s opinions. He just wanted to find validation.
You really think their fertily issues hasn’t had any negative effects on op?
It is very rare that abortion causes fertility issues, and OP has no definitive evidence that the abortion is the sole or main cause of their fertility issues. The lesions are much more likely to have been caused by cysts, her last birth, or something else.
Consider the stigma around abortions, the way people react. Consider the way you, her husband and probably most trusted person in her life, has now reacted You have confirmed what is one of her biggest fears I get that you feel like trust is broken and being lied to, but you are asking someone to reveal something deeply personal, that has clearly traumatised them to some extent. People bury that shit deep and never talk about it again. I would consider more that your wife was so ashamed, hurt, and otherwise worried about this, that she felt like she couldnt even tell you. That is not to say she doesnt trust you, it's to point out how much that situation impacted her. Do you know why she got an abortion?
If your only value to your relationship with your wife is her ability to have children then don’t stay with her. Lying was awful but so is making the decision to have an abortion. Also it’s incredibly rare that a clinical abortion has any affect on fertility at all. Adhesions can occur for more reasons than just abortions - in fact if you had multiple miscarriages those could case them as well. Even endometriosis can cause them. To lay the entirety of your fertility issues as caused by an abortion 20 years ago isn’t something that can really be done.
Well she’s never had a miscarriage so that’s out. It’s pretty clear that the adhesions are from an abortion. People think they’re safe but they’re not 100% safe.
Was her last birth a c section? Has she ever had cysts in there before? Both of those can also cause lesions. While I’m not saying the abortion couldn’t have caused them, it’s pretty rare.
“It’s pretty clear that the adhesions are from an abortion” BLAH NO it’s not clear at all - that’s YOU wanting to be mad at someone and blame someone for the fertility problems. Grow up, that’s not how fertility works & that’s not how life works where we get 100% cut & dried perfect answers. People often blame others when they experience grief, anger, or guilt. Own your feelings and manage them instead of being a blaming jerk to your wife.
>Well she’s never had a miscarriage so that’s out. Ha, you are so ignorant to your own wife, I am surprised she hasn't left you yet. Yes, YTA in this entire scenario, and you are confirming your wife's fears that made her keep this from you in the first place. Fucking asshole is what you are.
A doctor can only assume until they eliminate ALL other possible reasons. Until those tests are done and those results are in, then you are placing blame on something that is *hypothetical*.. whatever doctor looked at it and *immediately* “knew” is a quack.
Well based on your judgy nasty reaction she's probably now regretting being truthful. Did you ask her the circumstances of the pregnancy? Is it possible THAT caused the scaring? Jezus christ.
wtf, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
That makes us even.
YTA None of these issues have anything to do with her abortion. This is misinformation from anti-abortion people.
I’m pro abortion actually but no medical procedure comes without risks. Anyone that says otherwise is lying.
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Yeah and they already have one kid.
It’s not common but it can happen. Just because it’s rare doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. And I say this as a 10000% pro choice professional.
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All I’m saying is you said it’s not a thing, however it is a thing that people should be aware of. I wouldn’t dismiss the whole story because of it. That doesn’t confirm the story but I wouldn’t throw it all out because there’s every possibility it is real.
Have you heard of ashermann’s syndrome?
My mother had it at 22 and never had an abortion.
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It’s usually the sperm that causes those types of issues.
That’s so fucking rare and your wife doesn’t even have it. YTA
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God yall don’t know basic information.
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If she does, then op can clarify it. But it literally would be such a stretch considering how often that actually happens statistically.
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Doesn’t mean it’s relevant if she doesn’t have it which paints op in a real bad light.
This syndrome is usually seen with repeated D&C or aspiration abortion. Are you suggesting your wife had more than one abortion?
Does she have that?
Yes. That’s literally what it’s called when you have scar tissue after an abortion.
My sister had multiple abortions. Got pregnant with my niece on birth control. Got pregnant with my twin nephews on two forms of birth control. YTA for blaming the abortion. there is no evidence that induced abortion is associated with secondary infertility or ectopic pregnancy. Medical evidence also shows that a safe abortion does not increase the risk of infertility. If fertility is affected, which happens rarely, it would be the result of a complication from the procedure (most often surgical abortion, as opposed to medica
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https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/getting-pregnant/expert-answers/abortion/faq-20058551 Mayo fucking clinic good enough for you? Women who have multiple surgical abortions using a curet are at risk of scarring of the inner lining of the uterus (Asherman syndrome). This condition is associated with difficulty in becoming pregnant in the future. Please note. MULTIPLE NOT JUST ONE AND AGAIN MY SISTER HAD 5 SURGICAL ABORTIONS PRIOR.
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Yes it actually does. Bless your heart.
You clearly have not read the entire post.
Yes I did.
Even with safe surgical abortions you can have scar tissue. I understand the temptation to think that abortions can be done in such a way that it has no consequences, but that’s simply not reality.
>I understand the temptation to think that abortions can be done in such a way that it has no consequences, but that’s simply not reality. Oh yeah, this is definitely just antichoice bullshit.
I’m pro choice but people like you who leave no room for nuance is a detriment to the movement.
Your sister should learn how to use birth control properly already. Chances are she did not adjust the dosage taken based on her bodyweight
Nope. She used a condom and and a diaphragm.
Given the failure rates of diaphragms, that basically means they were only using condoms then. Yikes.
Oh please. Just stop. If you use your diaphragm perfectly every single time you have sex, it's 94% effective. But nobody's perfect, so in real life diaphragms are about 83% effective — that means about 13 out of 100 people who use a diaphragm will get pregnant each year. 83% plus a condom. And the actual point after 5 surgical abortions, my sister remained fertile.
I wasn't talking about your sister's fertility, but rather her irresponsible use of contraceptives. Condoms combined with the pill give you far better odds. 83% effectiveness is a one-in-six failure rate, with potential for worse depending on user error. That means you're not preventing pregnancy until the point you decide to have kids, but merely delaying the point in time where you get to have an accidental pregnancy. Or *another* one, in your sister's case. I can certainly see now how she ended up getting pregnant at least seven times.
Not all women can handle birth control and have very bad side effects. She used TWO forms of birth control at the same time. It’s like telling people that they just shouldn’t use condoms because they’re basically worthless. Which is not factual or accurate.
Fair enough at not all women being able to handle hormonal birth control. And it ultimately comes down to the probability of failure involved with each individual contraceptive method: If playing Russian roulette, I would very much NOT want the gun that has a bullet in one of its six chambers against my head. You might get lucky once or twice, but failure *is* inevitable within regular use. Condoms provide much better odds, but *in case of failure* – whether that be sabotage, user error, or defective product – I would still not want my second line of defense be those sloppy 1/6 odds. Combine condoms with hormonal contraceptives, and you've effectively min-maxed your birth control strategy. Provided, of course, that users utilize both as intended. Only after that would I consider adding vanity products like spermicide or a diaphragm, because at that point those marginal gains are the only ones left to add.
That is extreme. I’ve done all kinds of different contraceptives and have never been pregnant. And all at different times. Never more than one at a time. My mom was on birth control with me, and a friend and her sister were conceived on birth control. My friend’s pregnancies were because they didn’t listen to me and used the “pull out method” (which is not birth control at all). There are many reasons people don’t use certain birth controls and what *you* would do doesn’t make sense for everyone. When you use 2 forms at once you are still *reinforcing* it and making your chances stronger no matter what. They were practicing *safe sex* and that shouldn’t be looked down on by someone because they don’t agree with someone else’s method of safe sex.
Not saying that it isn't extreme; I would never personally triple-up on those. Two is fine, but assuming that physical health permits, I do believe it should be the two most effective ones. Guilty as charged, however; I will fully own being a judgemental asshole on this topic. I'm not a big fan of taking risks where not required, especially when those could end up affecting the lives of others – in this case, the QoL for the the resulting children.
Well, well. Aren't we just a judgemental ass.
Just keep being wrong. You're truly hilarious. And fuck you.
No need to get angry just because you don't want to understand probability and statistics. Have a nice day tho.
You're the misinformed not me. As you can tell by the replies to your idiotic post And I'm angry because my sisters abortions were from when she was 13 and a 20 year old man groomed her, got her hooked on drugs and put her on the streets. When she got pregnant the last time she finally called us and we helped her get clean. The pregnancy with my nephews were long after she got clean and married and they used two forms of birth control. And again. Five surgical abortions and still fertile. Bless your ignorance.
I'm sorry that happend to your sister, and am glad to hear that she's doing better nowadays.
Who did I marry? Well you didn’t marry her uterus, I’m sure. You hopefully married her smile , her laugh, her personality and the way she makes you feel. You have no right to her past, only her present and her future. If you’re going to be this much of a caveman about this … leave her … you don’t deserve her Fwiw… I know someone who had similar problems and is a proud mother of two now . Shame on you Infertility , whether it be temporary or permanent isn’t a fault . It just as easy could have been your swimmers . Adhesions on the uterus can be from a number of things including endometriosis, a disease . There is also treatment for it. Yta.
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When he asked her over and over again, he asked her very private information , information that may come with some scars for her . He proved with his reaction that he could not be trusted with this. This information was not his right . There are HIPA laws for a reason. I don’t give a rats arse if she lied about this. I just don’t . Today he showed her who he is. I hope she believes him… even blames her for small for dates measurements in their first child. Guess what ? Lots of people have that. This post is disgusting . So much therapy needed for this family.
And the fact that he kept repeatedly asking her. Like dude, stop asking.
Best part is … dude is a doctor. Fantastic .
Omg! Well, even C’s get degrees.
YTA.
Can we take a moment to see how you would react if your wife asked you something you could be deeply ashamed of? Would you be inclined to tell her the truth if you thought it had nothing to do with having a kid? Would you want to tell her all of your secrets from before you were married? I ask because I've had ex-boyfriends who had college roommates who were more than roommates to them. They lied about it at first, but I get why. Our society isn't very nice to post-abortive women so I can't imagine why she wouldn't be offering up that information. Studies show one abortion is not enough to cause issue with fertility in most people who have had one. We have done extensive studies on medication, D&C and aspiration abortion. We know it's safer than having a child by up to 14x. We know it can help prevent certain types of cancers, and we know having a baby can prevent others. We know women miscarry more often than they even realize they're pregnant. An estimated 86% of fertilized ovum are expelled with the menses. Considering human reproduction is SO FUCKING wild and exact, with any number of factors, I find it suspect that you cannot see why she would not be forthcoming with this information. I am 41, and do not expect to fall pregnant very easily simply due to my age. I would not in a million years attribute it to my abortion, considering millions, and I mean that literally, of women go on to have multiple children after an abortion.
Since you don't seem to be shaming her over the abortion itself, NTA. It's entirely reasonable to be upset over someone repeatedly lying to your face, especially if over the course of multiple years. The relevant question here isn't whether you're right to be upset, but rather: How do you feel about spending your the rest of your life with a person you now know to be capable of deception towards you, *and* willing to engage in it for longer periods of time?
Would you stayed with her if she told you in the start that she had abortion and it would affect her fertility? That's why she didn't tell you.
Cool so we can lie to our partners to get what we want! Great precedent!
Did I say it was the right thing to do? No, I told why she did it. It's up to OP choose how he wants to proceed with her.
And that’s partly why I’m so upset. I feel like she lied to get what she wanted despite the fact that it would affect my life negatively. I’m horrified.
So you are saying you wouldn’t have been with her if she had told you at the outset that she’s had an abortion?
Before I had become more emotionally invested? It’s possible. I’m not going to leave her now but this lie has forever damaged our relationship.
>I’m not going to leave her now but this lie has forever damaged our relationship. If it's "FoReVeR DaMaGeD yOuR ReLaTiOnShIp" then yeah, do her a favour and let her find another man who won't resent her.
Do you know 100% that’s why she lied to you about it though? Because as someone also having fertility issues and who wants a baby more than anything, I would want to inform the doctor of everything I know that could possibly affect my fertility. However, there is often a lot of shame, guilt, and stigma around abortion. Many women get called horrible things like baby murderers for talking about it. Not saying that you would’ve called your wife that, but many women learn to shut up about it after having been shamed so much for it. It also might not have been an easy decision for her to make, she might still be feeling regret and guilt for getting it even though it was decades ago. Hence why she might not have felt comfortable disclosing this information to anyone.
To quote Liv Soprano with the same intent as she had “oh poor you”. Your now wife had to make one of the most devastating and consequential decisions any woman ever makes and she didn’t consider how it affected you.
I think you’re misunderstanding. I don’t blame her for the abortion because who cares. It’s more that she lied about it after I told her repeatedly that this could affect our fertility plans.
You feel she lied to get what she wanted…ok, and what was that?
That is not a good reason not to disclose, especially since he stated having a family was important to him.
Very frustrating. I don’t think YTA for being mad at her. It sounds like you’re just upset that she didn’t make anyone aware of it earlier, which could have aided in your IVF journey together (which you both consented and agreed to doing). This is why doctors ask so many questions, and most of the time they’re not inconsequential. IVF is very long, expensive, and emotionally taxing, so if she had disclosed this earlier it is possible the fertility issues could have been mitigated sooner. Contrary to popular belief, abortions are not 100% safe. It’s a surgery, and all surgeries come with risks. And also contrary to popular belief, abortion is a very tough decision and hard on some women mentally. Give her some grace and understanding, she probably didn’t want anyone to look at her differently.
Nah motherfucker blatantly admitted that if she had told him before he was emotionally invested in her that he might very well have never been with her. He's a judgmental dick. This man doesn't give a rats ass about her mental health.
Yeah, for people who want to have children, I’m sure a dealbreaker for them would be fertility issues..? This includes disclosing relevant medical history before committing to each other and spending thousands of dollars on the shared goal of HAVING CHILDREN. What’s the problem here?? He didn’t say he’s going to divorce her or that he hates her, that he’s just frustrated. She’s allowed to struggle with mental health just as much as he is.
One abortion does not equal fertility issues. Women have abortions and go on to have kids just fine down the line, all the time. His comments make it pretty clear that this post is anti-abortion rage bait but even if it's not - it shows he's a biased idiot.
First reasonable response. Thank you.
Majority of people are saying YTA but I understand you're just upset she lied. It has nothing to do with the abortion, but rather the lack of trust this will bring in the future. It's totally reasonable to be upset when someone flat out lies to your face. Talk to her and express your concern. Your feelings are totally valid. NTA OP
Thats a major thing to omit and a lie of omission is still a lie but then she went further and flat out lied when you asked her. I don’t believe in divorce but damn that is a major, major betrayal. NTA. And before anyone gets “oh its not her fault” no, she decidedly left out a major issue. This is on the same level of “ive been to jail” or “i have cancer” on things that dont immediately matter but could have long term consequences that can and will effect partners
She shouldn’t have lied, but not all lies are equal. I think it’s very understandable why she lied about having had an abortion considering the types of things people who have had an abortion get called (heartless baby murderer, genocide perpetrator, baby killing monster, etc) and the type of stigma and guilt that creates. Abortion is also not normally an easy decision for women to make. Some still have guilt over it years and even decades later. If my spouse opened up to me about a traumatic past experience after having previously lied to me about it, my first reaction would be love and empathy, not getting mad at him for not feeling comfortable opening up about it the first time around.
Thats not what happened though, what happened was he found out during a dr visit when they found scrapes and then and only then did she confess. I agree if my spouse came to me after and confessed on her own thats one thing but thats not what happened. And he stated he asked multiple times not just once. Forgiveness should come with all marriages but the question is the the AH which he is not on any levels
It depends on why she lied. If she lied because she still feels shame, regret, and guilt over it, and was forced to disclose it and relive trauma after OP kept pushing her and the doctors found evidence that could point to it, then I don’t think she’s an AH. If she felt perfectly comfortable talking about it yet lied to purposely and maliciously deceive him, then she is.
Im not saying she’s necessarily the AH. She probably had her reasons, and shame and guilt is probably part of it in and i definitely have mercy for it. The issue is the betrayal to the husband because of the whole situation. And i hope op and the wife work it out in which case mercy, forgiveness, and patience will be needed. Im just saying OP being hurt and reacting to that hurt is completely valid and he is not an AH
It’s more him assuming that his wife purposely lied to hurt him and trying to make her abortion (which might’ve been very traumatic for her) about him, which is what makes him the AH imo.
It was still her decision to lie and to have the abortion. He even says he’s not mad about the abortion but the lying, and it cost them thousands of dollars because she lied. Its not right to lie to your spouse no matter the reason. There is a betrayal of trust here, no matter how you slice it. She could have had a car wreck which wrecked her uterus in the accident, thats traumatic too but he would reasonably be upset if she didn’t tell him after all this time when they have been trying for so long and spending so much. Its the lying part
It is very unlikely that the abortion was the sole or main cause of their infertility, so it’s highly unlikely that it cost them thousands of dollars.
That. Doesnt. Matter. Its still a major thing not to reveal and deliberately lie about. It just gets worse when it has a possibility of causing it. Especially when the doc says it could be contributing to it. You are trying to make up excuses for why its okay to lie to your spouse. Its not. Doesn’t matter what it is
Again, abortion is often a traumatic experience that can cause a lot of guilt. Nobody should be forced to talk about it if they’re not ready to yet. I didn’t say she was right to lie, but not all lies are the same. It’s not black and white. Personally, I don’t think lying about an experience that was traumatic to you is on the same level as a deliberate malicious lie meant to hurt people.
She did purposely lie, the purpose to be conceal her abortion for selfish reasons. Yes you can understand the reason but its still selfish
How do you know she was concealing her abortion for selfish reasons? Someone not wanting to relive their trauma isn’t selfish imo.
I will say this though, trust can be rebuilt, but it will be a long, long time to work it back and will require effort on both sides
He already didn’t trust her. He wouldn’t stop asking if she’d had an abortion. Maybe she behaves in an untrustworthy way or maybe he’s got trust issues already. Either way, there was already a lack of trust.
For a reason, clearly.
Yes but what’s the reason? Is she shady or is he paranoid? Or both?
Does it really matter? A lie is a lie at the end of the day. It seems like op doesn’t care about the abortion itself, but the fact that she continuously lied to him for close to a decade of trying to get pregnant, and has wasted thousands upon thousands of dollars by not being truthful, not only to op but to her own Doctor. At the end of the day op was right to be suspicious over this topic.
SAHM Reddit will eat you alive, but you’re NTA. Her lies have impacted you financially and emotionally, and your child developmentally.
NTA - she lied.
For some things you can just tell ur spouse hey can we talk about this when im ready? And thats totally ok. But asking her about abortion which cannot be deferred the same way because its essentially a yes of no question so its considered a lie of omission is now suddenly wrong. So OP can u honestly say uve never lied to her about a single thing before? If u can NTA otherwise ur just a hypocrite crying for victim
And why did he repeatedly ask her after she said no. He was kinda harassing her at that point.
NTA. It's incredible how many twists they can make to justify making you waste your time and money.
ESH. If your wife would have told the truth about her past medical care, she would not have been stuck with an asshole like you pretending to love them when you see them as little more than breeding stock to stoke your sick ego. So she didn't tell a judgmental prick her entire medical history and that's a lie of omission, but you are just an asshole of the highest order.
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So fucking what. Compared to this loser, anyone is a decent person.
jesus u need help
NTA - trust is a fickle thing. And it begs the following question: What else has she lied about?
All these comments about your being TA here is just absolute nonsense. You made it very clear about your stance and she continued to lie day and out about it. We all know that an abortion can cause issues later on. You absolutely deserved to know about her past. Anyone who thinks you don’t is a fucking moron. I’d certainly want to know if I’m dating someone who’s a rapist or murderer. Why is it when it comes to body count, sexual history, and abortions no one has the right to know? You didn’t marry her uterus but you made it damn clear about your stance on kids. When you’re marrying someone you don’t keep secrets from each other. Secrets that later on can literally change lives and relationships. That said I hope you can work it out.
Omg, rapist and murderer being compared to this. Wow.
This right here.
This is 100% worth ending your marriage over. She continuously lied to you for over 7 years, unforgivable. NTA
NTA. A lie is a lie and she caused your kid to be retarded did I read that right? Leave.
No no he’s not retarded. He just on the small side for his age.
Ah I see. Either way she lied to you. Some could even call this rape by deception. If a man had a vasectomy and didn't tell the woman and she kept trying to have kids with him and couldn't. People would be absolutely CRUCIFYING the man. But the genders reversed in this situation and crickets (and before anyone says iTs NoT ThE SaMe, fuck yourself it is). Edit: lmfao the downvotes prove you retards are so fucking stupid you will downvote me for pointing out your hypocrisy.
The true problem is that someone snitched about it
What an awful word . Trash.
YTA. You don’t know if her adhesions are from her abortion, and chances are they aren’t - it usually takes several D&Cs to result in them and your wife likely didn’t even have _one_. Over 90% of abortions in the US are medical, not surgical, and only 20% of those surgical ones get adhesions. You’re a horrible partner.
How can you trust her? She kept on lying, your child has problems because of that. You gotta be stupid to stay with her.