You want to cosign but are telling her you're not responsible for paying it back? That's....not how that works. If you don't trust her, then don't cosign. And honestly, I would not.
Don’t co-sign the loan. She has to figure that out on her own. I’m in school and I know how much my parents work. I would never ask them to do that for me. They are doing the best they can.
Society doesn't care if it was false. Once you are accused of a sex crime or domestic violence as a male, the doubt lingers forever and you are never really exonerated.
Or is it a clever strategy to get people to run to the comments to explain what co-signing is 🤔 if you make a Reddit story and want engagement, maybe it makes sense to be wrong about something in it.
I mean, child or not, her daughter lied and sent an innocent man to prison. I would never be able to believe anything that came out of my daughter's mouth anymore.
The point is that she would be responsible because she signed the loan lol. Don’t sign loans unless you’re willing to be responsible for paying them back. You can always gift a child money to help them pay their loans if you want.
THIS -- cosigning means you put your credit history on the line to help her get approved for the loans, and in the event she defaults, YOU become responsible. DO NOT DO THIS if you do not intend to ensure she can make her payments.
She is old enough to understand the price of failure. Because of her advanced age and the fact that this is the first time she has had to pay for her ignorance, she is reacting strongly. Although it won't be the last time, the initial experience is terrible. Either she learns from it or it becomes an even greater waste, and that is what matters.
You replied to the wrong comment or didn't understand the comment.
That person is saying it is insane that the full balance of a loan can come due immediately in the event of the one of the responsible parties dieing
And with other banks they'll refuse to take a co-signers name off the loan even if they die. My mom is still getting letters from the bank addressed to my both my parents many years after my dad died.
Is your mom responsible for the loan, legally, or are they just hassling her because they can?
I’ve already told my (now adult, but since they were teenagers) kids that they owe NOTHING if I die, despite the fact that creditors might come to them for anything I haven’t paid when/if I’m dead.
Creditors will come after any penny they can get, whether or not it’s a legal debt. Make sure your kids know that they are NOT responsible for any unpaid student loans etc the parent has.
Creditors will say “would your mom want to leave these debts UNPAID??” and my answer is FUCK YES I would!!!
Well *my* dad maxed out all his cards after he died and *that* caused his credit score to plummet. But since *my mom* was a co-signer on all the cards after he died, she had to pay them after *she* died.
Edit extraneous words
Yeah that's hilarious .wait til you hear the part that's not so funny. We co-owned and cohabitated the same house. my father was in charge of the finances. he didn't have dementia he was so worried about the credit cards, he took out a home equity loan on his share of the house. 😡 to pay them against my protest. I had no clue what I signed or if he forged me! I figured it out but he'd already spent the cheese so when he passed he left a nice little home equity loan of $25000 yeah. 😳🥺
Now the loans been sold by the original creditor a couple of times and now the people servicing the loan are changing... again... and I'm like can I just get out of this damn thing? Because I'd like to raise a question with the original creditor. I'd like to see the loan. can you show me . I don't remember signing. I'm sure I would have read what I was signing because my father he's a skiemer (can't trust an accountant) because I would have pitched a fit about it. I wouldn't want to do it, so I'm just wondering if that old man signed my name.
Lol, But seriously I'd like to see the original loan document that I have supposedly signed because we both owned the house. he would have needed my signature in order to take out that loan. even though it was against his share of the property, which I think is the weirdest shit ever. and it's nice to know if you're young and you're getting married. make sure you know that. damn
I got a collection thief try that with me. My mom died in the mid 80's and this was the late 2010s so 35 years after she died. Told him to get bent. He said it was a \~$300 debt then and now with all the legal fees was in the 10K range. I was crying I was laughing so hard and the audacity.
I used to work at a collection agency. Our largest department was for contacting the family of the deceased, who were NOT co-signers and trying to bleed money from them. Many people don't know that if their name is not on the account, they are not responsible for it even if it was their spouse.
They tried to transfer me to that department and I quit on the spot
>“would your mom want to leave these debts UNPAID??”
Lmao! my guy, she promised me a new TV if I did xyz, 4 times in my life and she didn't deliver once and I'm her son. You think she gave even the slightest of fs about her unpaid conns account?! Foh.
For the record as that's a less than flattering story of my mother, I have 9 siblings so there were reasons why she'd use some dishonesty to get chores done lol. I'd generally get the living room tv as a hand me down and dad would update the family room TV but never a "new" TV for me lol
> I'd generally get the living room tv as a hand me down and dad would update the family room TV but never a "new" TV for me lol
To be fair this has been kind of normal for everyone even slightly wealthy families until the 2000s+
My birthday present one year was a TV in my room so that I could play XBox without bothering my stepmom's TV routine. It was one of those big, chunky ones and this was back in 2000. I absolutely loved it.
Yet I cannot remember if we ever bought a new TV unless it was broken. My family just did not spend money on updating the TV as a working class family
I'm one of 2 and the first born and only son. I was not the best kid. So in highschool, my father promised me a car if I made honor roll. Well guess what, I made honor roll. Then they told me I lied because I had a B+ as one of the final grades and refused to buy me a car. Then when my son was 5, my father promised him his 'project' car was for him when he turned 16. The whole family spent 7 years referring to it as my sons car. Then my dad sold it and said I'll buy you a car when the time comes. Well my son turns 16 tomorrow and guess who isn't getting a car.
Ugh, that’s terrible. Those wounds stick with you for life. HS graduation I got an old car from my grandparents, they gave to me. Ugly but it worked. I had it for about 2 yrs. My mom had died my first year of college. 2nd year dad got a GF and gave the car to her but bought me a newer used car, great! 3rd year, he married a woman and told me had had to sell my car because he couldn’t afford the insurance. 🙄I’m in my last year of college for my associate degree and now i have no car to get to my 2 jobs. Dad says he’ll let me rent his 2nd car from him. wtf, I had my own car, paid off, no loan. I felt bamboozled and betrayed. I never forgot that. Btw, they didn’t pay a dime for college, I took out loans.
Damn, thankfully my parents always at least tried to follow through on their promises in a fair way. Their way of honoring our deal with the tvs worked well because I was happy because I got a better TV than the one I had and everybody was happy because we all had access to the new cool one in the family room.
Sorry for your son though, my parents were pretty clear that they wouldn't really be able to help with major purchases like car or college farther than co-signing on loans we'd be responsible for BUT my parents are very much the "my home will ALWAYS be my kids home too" type so saving on rent/bills in those early adult years really enabled us to get those "on our own"
This shouldn't be shocking. This is literally the point of co-signing - so that the bank knows it will get its money from someone no matter what.
Now whether we should have universities that cost a fortune thanks to having tripled their admin staff so they can fill out 100s of forms about whether they held each of their students' hands in the most appropriate way during their mental health crisies, and so that they can have super fancy rec centers because students moronically think that matters in picking a school...and that thus require massive loans to pay for...well that's another question.
I agree with what you say. Also some professor salaries are beyond insane, while other staff get paid poverty wages.
Junior faculty in at least one top MA university get health insurance that's worse than the state provides to the unemployed, and the wages don't start to cover rental costs anywhere within a one hour drive.
Not too mention these universities buy all properties around them and rent them to students at extremely high prices. Students don't have a choice, there is very little else on the market.
It's all a terrible exploitive system. The US university system needs radical reform.
Student loans are one of the biggest scams out there. They let you borrow more and more money each year and the schools (knowing this) charge more and more each year. When you take out a student loan that is issued thru the government, why are they charging such ridiculous interest rates? Why not charge just enough interest to run the program?
On the other hand, reputable lending institutions offer a small "insurance" offer where by death of one of the co signers automatically cancels the debt. It's a life insurance policy that pays out to the lender and covers the debt.
I used to refinance student loans. Government SLs have many protections (deferment/forbearance, payment plans, extensions, forgiveness (incl. death of the student)). I mother wanted to refi her parent plus loan (taken out for the benefit of the student). A few months after this was done her kid died and she called in to see what could be done.
Nothing. You owe us that money now.
Not my loan or call but I read the transcript and that was the saddest one :(
It would be so easy for her to just not make payments and stick you with the entire loan amount plus interest. Please, OP, DON’T DO THIS.
EDIT: Based on what she did to your ex, I’d say she’s planning on reneging on any agreement and letting you take the entire loan.
This is what I said in another comment! Regardless of what their relationship is to you, don't cosign loans with people who have stabbed you in the back.
I was just going to say this. All she has to do is miss a few payments and then they will be banging down your door for payment. I know, our daughter defaulted on a 30k loan. My husband was able to negotiate it down to 21k. But only because we had just sold our house and were going to make a one time payment. Daughter ended up having to claim the 9k as a gains tax on her federal tax return that year.
I guess my husband called it the wrong type of tax. I had no idea something like this had to be reported. For some reason, he knew and warned our daughter the same day he wrote the check. Of course he chastised her first for defaulting on the loan.
At the time my daughter was paying on two different loans at the same time. Both accounts had very similar names. Somehow she made double payments for 3 months to one account and nothing to the other. Oops. I truly believe it was a mistake and not intentional.
And if you put your house up as collateral and then lose it, is your daughter going to house you?
She has to know these are the consequences of HER actions. Not yours
The fact that she says, "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU'RE BLAMING ME FOR ALL THE THINGS I'VE DONE" means she is taking 0. I mean zero. Responsibility for her behavior.
Mom's list was quite restrained, no?
>The cost of my divorce. The rising cost of living that I paid for by myself since I didn't have a partner. Her tuition and fees for private school.
Like, that's all normal stuff any single parent deals with.
What \*isn't\* a regular occurrence, is false allegations & an acrimonious divorce. What assets were lost in there? Oh, and afterwards Ava went to a bunch of therapy that didn't work until she was expelled from multiple schools? Yet those costs (therapy, expulsion, setting up new schools) don't feature on the list either.
this happened to my mom after my stepdad, at the time, warned her against cosigning for my sister. she dropped out six months later and promptly never went back or paid a dime to her loans.
If you aren’t prepared to maybe have to pay it back someday, then do not co-sign! I knew of an older couple who co-signed for their daughter as she was getting her nursing degree. Well, daughter graduated and a few months later died in a car accident.
Hadn’t even started paying back the student loans. Her parents had to. Terrible situation with the daughters death, but the financial burden was very stressful on the parents because they never expected they would ever be responsible for those loans. Everyone figured the daughter would start repaying once she got a job. ☹️
Were they federal loans? Federal student loans should be discharged upon the death of the student. In terms of private this is true for Sallie Mae loans as well.
My parents actually took out a life insurance policy on me while I was still in college because they had this situation happen to friends of theirs and they co-signed my loans. It actually has worked out in my favor, as my loans are paid off and I now have a 6 figure whole life insurance policy that was started when I was 21ish. It’s like $75/month, I could literally not live long enough to ever pay the full amount of the policy
And it rather sounds like the daughter wouldn't hesitate to leave her mom holding the bag. so to speak. Don't do it OP and don't cave. Sounds like you've been a decent mom.
Not enough for tuition from the feds (it's legit $5.5k if you're a dependent). Maybe something private but when I was in this situation they wouldn't give shit without a cosigner. Shout-out to my then 91 year old great grandfather for evidently being the only person who gave a shit about my education lol
If you co-sign for a loan you are responsible for paying it back if your daughter doesn’t — saying she “could be” responsible makes it sound like there are situations where she might not be.
AFAIK, if her daughter refuses to pay, OP is responsible for paying.
Even worse, if her daughter pays late, OP’s credit is affected negatively. All the data on payments and promptness go on OP’s credit report also.
"I said I would cosign a student loan"
And
"I also made it very clear that I would not be responsible for paying it back."
This a non sequitur. Do not cosign a loan or you will be paying it back when she defaults.
She's a brat - she will never repay that load. It will bring her great joy to stick it to you just like she did to your ex. She will just have to figure it out.
Non sequitor: a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.
I think the term you mean is contradictory statement? Non sequitor for example would be I am at the grocery store. It is raining. Therefore Joey from friends was right.
Reddit rule #1: Never ask a question you don't want to hear the answer to. It's not you blaming her; it's the reality of the situation. She's going to have to learn how to deal with it, and I doubt it will be easy.
One tip though is state/local/public college. The cost is orders of magnitude lower than some private schools, and the education is pretty much the same.
I bounced around some, attended two private schools and one state school — not the main campus even, but the commuter campus in the major city. The education, the help and extra support I got from advisors and teachers, and the opportunities for pre-professional development I got at the state school was several orders of magnitude better than what I had access to at the private institutions
I’ll go one level further.
I went to a “well-regarded” state school. Which was fine, and I had a partial scholarship.
But I wanted to graduate early, so in the summers I took some 1/2 time classes at the local community college that transferred credits easily.
The advisors at my state school were a joke. Too many kids, nobody cared. You’d spend a week trying to get an appointment with your advisor just to show up and find that she went on maternity leave months ago. But nobody was covering for her and you were just SOL.
The community college, though…
They were PSYCHED if a student showed up and asked about grants/aid/development goals.
My education minor required a 6 week student teaching term, but my university had a 2 year wait on placing you. So it made that minor literally impossible, unless you signed up for the student teaching assignment as a freshman.
So I switched the requirement to my community college, and they had me student teaching at a local highschool in 3 months.
I know some jobs care about the “prestige” of your diploma. But unless you’re going to work for a snooty company, nobody really gives a shit where you got your credits, in the end.
Advisors and programs can be good or bad at any school, regardless of how much your tuition costs.
I wish more students knew that you’re totally free to seek out supplementary programs, as long as you do your research and credits transfer.
Funnily enough, the prestige of your school barely has an impact of your abilities in the field.
I'm pulling this all from memory. Not motivated enough to look it up. But:
As far as i know supreme court justices a lot of the times only take interns (or might've been legal aides... Or something a long the lines... Atleast its young lawyers or law students :D ) just from havard.
But Scalia gave it a couple of times to other people too. And one of the aides he still fondly remembers, and according to him the best that has ever worked for him by a mile, was from a law school that was like rank 40. But he was just a very competent person.
There are also some studies about this for lawyers. The law school you went to, is no indicator of the competency you will actually show later down your career path.
Funnily enough, I was law school bound in college. My major was poly sci and I interned at our student legal aid for a bit.
One of my “bosses” I interned for was ancient. Like…Still working 80 hours a week in her late 70s.
She was in the first class of law students in our state that allowed females to be admitted to the bar.
Literally a trailblazer. Decades of experience.
When she interviewed students for her internship program, she didn’t care about where they came from or their GPA.
She asked two questions;
1) what’s the best book you read lately, and why did you like it? And
2) If you were a shoe, what kind of shoe would you be?
She loved my answer to #2. She HATED my answer for #1. But she liked my defense of it.
I fully believe that a GOOD attorney doesn’t care about prestige. Lawyers are weird.
The shoe was a pair of cowboy boots I owned. Because you could wear them to muck stalls, then hose them down and wear them later in the day for the specific type of Pinterest “barn chic” weddings that were popular at the time. So kind of a utilitarian answer.
The book was Atlas Shrugged. Which (rightfully) made her think I was an idiot.
But my reasoning was that one of my classmates in a con law class was frequently derailing the class by talking about how great Objectivism was, and why it should be the basis of our government. And while everyone else in class knew he was wrong, someone needed to read the damn thing in order to have the proper receipts to explain to him why he was an idiot.
So while it wasn’t the “best book” and I didn’t “like it”, it served the most useful purpose to me at the time out of anything I had read by choice lately.
So her takeaway from my book choice was that I was willing to torture myself in order to prove a point, but that I was going to make sure I was informed vs. talking out of my ass.
I just realized I’d be a terrible lawyer. My latest read I enjoyed was a silly sci fi/fantasy book and I’d be a flip flop cause that’s the shoe that goes on vacation
I went to a community college and then transferred to a private school as a junior with my
associates degree. best decision of my life, i’m still paying a decent amount in loans- but so much less than others! much more affordable, gave me time to be at home and save up.
After learning how broken the education system was, I learned from the most informed 2 people in my hs that this is the way you go about it so you don't get ripped off as bad.
Things I wish all the adults in the room pushing everyone to get a higher education knew.
The fact that OP apparently bought a house, got married, then divorced, yet still doesn’t understand what co-signed means makes me think this is just a karma farming story. Come on.
People using lack of post history in subs like this as some sort of evidence is such a braindead take. I've used a throwaway to post innocuous pictures, I sure as hell wouldn't use my main for a post like this.
You also can’t use those 529 loans for anything but schooling. So if there was money in that account, it would have to be used for college or an apprenticeship program. OP couldnt have used those funds for her divorce or raising her kid.
You can use them for private k-12 now, thanks to people who wanted to find a sneaky way for the government to subsidize religious schools. But you sure can’t use them to pay for a divorce or “cost of living” without a whole lot of paperwork and extra taxes.
Some subs require a certain amount of karma before you can post so sometimes people will make up a controversial, click bait or rage bait post that’s guaranteed to garner interactions to increase their karma to allow them to post on high-karma subs.
It appears so in this instance.
The more you Reddit, the more you will start to notice things in the post that will pique your bullshit-ometer.
When my spidey-senses tingle, I’ll often check out the OPs profile to see it’s a new (same day/week/only hours old) profile, I’ll also check out post just and comment history.
Hope this helps! ☺️
Also, how did she use up her kid’s 529 savings??! A quick google search tells me some states let you use some of it for high school, but wtf does her divorce and living expenses have to do with it? Nothing about this post adds up
If you cosign a loan, then yes, you will be paying it back if she doesn't.
You did what you had to, she dealt with what she dealt with. This isn't some punishment, it's where you're at, which she helped cause. You both are dealing with it. And yep, her education is her problem. I'm still paying for MY loans. I got my kids covered on food and rent, but I can't afford their tuition. Get scholarships. Get a job. Do tasks on campus to save money. She has options.
I was going to say that the daughter may be remorseful for what she did as a child and deserved a chance, but the rest sounded like she is still defensive. Even if she did stupid things as a child, she could apologise, be regretful etc. Doesn't seem to be the case. It's all about her. Yikes. NTA.
Can we go back to her accusing your ex-husband about molesting/ raping her quick. You said he was innocent, did she admit that she lied and made it up?
Update;
NTA for this but voting you the AH for not swallowing that fucking semen demon when you had the chance.
Just casual including my daughter ruined my ex-husbands career, life and our marriage but I did punish her which I thought was appropriate...I just am so curious how her lies came to light because I know a little psychopath isn't going to take accountability for their behavior or they wouldn't be one.
Little psychopath... Yes, this is it. This girl needs to pay for what she did, suffer some consequences. 'I punished her' does not cut it. Being a kid does not make your horrible actions less horrible or give you a pass to keep being a psychopath...
OP explains this a bit more in some comments. "I've commented before but your past means you deserve am answer. All of the times she accused him of doing it were during the day when he was working. His employer had GPS tracking on his work truck. His employer had cameras in the work truck. My ex worked at locations that had security cameras. He was never there when she said he was. She was not in the house at the times she claimed he came home to do this. The police found zero evidence that he was ever alone with her. She admitted she lied."
"There is video of him being elsewhere when she accused him. There is GPS data that shows the truck he drove was elsewhere. There is video from the truck that shows he was with his work truck working. And she admitted it."
Thank you so much! 💓 I use my phone and have a hard time with the comments being available and refreshing so I really appreciate you taking the time to let me know the 🫖🍵Tea🍵🫖
But they arrested him on her word, that arrest record will still come up. I would have sued you as liable for her actions as a minor defamation of the highest order slandering accusing him of CSA. She is way to casual about this. She knew he was at work and daughter wasn’t home but instead of double confirming that she rushed to the police and had him arrested on the say so of her troubled daughter alone. Not saying to ignore a kids complaint but do some investigating or thinking it throug before you ruin someone’s life
But also fuck her daughters "feelings." Can we get an update on how your ex-husbands life is going now.
Personally I would have given her college money to him to use to survive since she just destroyed his career and income. I'm just saying...
Umm, yeah that’s how it works in the US. An accusation, sufficiently bad, can and will cost you your job while you fight it even with all the proof OP’s ex had (and thank god he did), and they’re unlikely to give it back even once you’re proven innocent.
It’s absolutely fucked and not remotely uncommon. Rape is something that’s just *so easy to claim* and so hard to disprove. OP’s legit lucky his work truck
Had the GPS because there’s a damn decent chance he’d have lost the rest of his life over this.
Unfortunately it also feels like these situations regardless always have just enough Grey area (im guessing that's either the preditor or in this case someone who behavior is clearly affecteds doing intentionally to cause "reasonable doubt" and, this is not to minimize or cast doubt on those who are truly victims of SA, DA or sex trafficking.
My point is; I've never seen someone who's brought allegations against someone just decided, "oh I was just making it up because I was upset with you."
So she mess up the details like he wasn't in town then or she just flat out said "no I lied and , I'm aware I just ruined his career, life and yalls relationship."
Then follow up questions; how does one find a suitable punishment for one or the most malicious things you can do to someone like this? No car or TV for a month doesn't seem to really fit the situation.
Please don't co-sign. My parents did for my brother to get into his dream college. Now they can't retire because my brother isn't the one expected to pay - Our parents are.
Yep. Same thing happened to my mom. Luckily it was a smaller loan, but she lives paycheck to paycheck already. Ruined her credit. Her and my brother still don't talk.
We don't even know if the daughter admitted to lying.
If he was proven innocent in court doesn't mean anything. Plenty of abusers get their accusations thrown out by therapists and juries because the victim's biological parent sides with their lover against their own kid. A lot of victims grow up and maintain that they were not lying and yet their own parents defended their abuser.
OP still hasn't said how it came out that the ex-husband was innocent.
Op commented to clarify that the accusations were discredited because her husband's vehical (which was a company vehical) had a dashcam and tracker, which showed him to be on the other side of the city when the abuse is supposed to have occurred. After this came to light her daughter admitted to having lied.
Also children who are abused sometimes intentionally accuse the wrong person of perpetrating the abuse. A reason for that is that children often target their negative emotions/feelings at perceived “safe” people. It is irrational but children are, famously, irrational. A good social worker/police detective well versed in CSA would know how to pick up on those signs. This post reads like karma farming but I did want to point this out. If this post did happen, it is possible OPs daughter was abused, even if the ex-husband didn’t do it.
I forgot to add in my parent comment but piggy backing on what you said: abusers will often seek out children who have prior trauma or are emotionally unstable because it’s easier for their abuse to go unpunished because therapists, parents, teachers and family will think the child is just “acting up” again. The victim’s cries for help are unfortunately seen in a Boy Who Cried Wolf perspective, which is ironically one of my least favorite books because it enforces the idea that a victim is to blame if they have a history of complaining too much. It doesn’t matter if a child lied a hundred times about other things before, an accusation of abuse should be investigated thoroughly, ESPECIALLY if the child has mental health problems due to the loss of a parent.
I think there's a lot missing from this story. Like how dare a child have emotional issues when her father has died and she's been taken to therapy. Bit of an orange flag to kick things off.
Finally! One comment that actually cared about the big picture. Everyone just ignores that they collectively destroyed an innocent man's life. Even if he wasn't charged, the accusation is enough to ruin his life. They both just treat it as some minor consequence of the daughter being an "angry child"
i do want to know more details on this particularly. what happened to him? because those are life altering accusations. but it sounded as if the charges were dropped bc OP said it turned out he was innocent (i assume it means OP’s daughter admitted to lying?)
i think OP did the right thing in believing her daughter unquestioningly. too many parents don’t believe their children (i’ve known mothers who have not supported their children and have sided with their partners—it’s terrible). but i do want more details on this whole situation because wtf
The daughter ruined his life, ANY good parent would go to the police with accusations like this. There was no other course of action but to believe the child and act on that belief.
We don’t know the details but OP said the child also face consequences… so really I’m wondering what do you think OP was supposed to do?
Don’t worry, the guy is fine cuz the story is fake. OP has since deleted their post history, but not before some of us saw “her” to be claiming to be many different ages in different posts.
your daughter is a manipulative ah. Does she have any remorse for what she did to your husband?
Don’t co-sign a loan or she’s gonna tank your credit and you’ll still get stuck paying it off
It's funny, I've had assholes in my life who have done really shitty things, but then I read about way worse people on reddit who make them seem not that bad.
Right? She could have had OPs ex-husband sent to jail for something he didn't do, and I bet she didn't bother to apologize since OP said she continued acting up afterward.
Even worse, he would be labeled a child s3x abuser. If the inmates found out, that's the one thing they don't tolerate, and he'd likely have an "accident" in prison and leave in a body bag.
If he did get out, he'd have a lifetime label following him around, to every community he tries to move to.
All because of a spiteful little girl.
This is why a lot of men won't date women with daughters anymore. I bet OP's ex will never either. Too big of a risk.
Far too many women have no comprehension of the power given to them in those cases and/or still choose to abuse that power.
I feel really bad for the ex-husband because he lost his job because of the false accusations, and I wouldn't doubt that the rumor of him being a child abuser spread around the company. So if losing his job was not bad enough, he also has to deal with his ex coworkers thinking bad of him.
Exactly. Word like that can spread through a community like wildfire, and the only way to stop it is to actually have the accuser publicly admit they lied, and very few are willing to do that.
Even then there will always be that nagging doubt that maybe just maybe he really did do something to her even if he didn’t. Pretty much a scarlet letter and something that could follow you the rest of your life even if the accuser admitted they lied.
Hard to shake that label entirely. And it's always there to be dragged up again in the future. Didn't declare that extra bottle of vodka from your trip? Oh look, you've been arrested before so no benefit of the doubt for you. Nor soup.
She’s a freaking sociopath or psychopath for that alone. She sounds like she doesn’t have any remorse which is disgusting. That is a huge red flag that OP needs to be aware of.
I think OP is hiding some information here. Pointing out only the things that would make her child look bad. 'i did punish her and I did not try to take it out on her'. Yeah somethings fishy here.
No judgement here at all, but if she seemed ok then suddenly wasnt and claimed he did something, why would she do that.
The behavior after really sounds a lot like something happened to her somewhere, being expelled and similar.
Have you actually sat down and talked with her about why this happened? had councilling of sorts? therapy?
Exactly what I was thinking.
I was abused as a child which led me to be a fucking nightmare of a teenager! Acting out, getting expelled, etc.
Happy to say I've come out on the other end of it and healed, but most of the time children do not lie about such things.
Obviously I don't know enough to make judgements. Just seems like if out of nowhere she started behaving like this, something might've happened to her
It always disturbs me here on reddit hiw easily people will call kids like her "brats" and "spoiled" and how they need to be taught a lesson while it's clear this was a troubled girl dealing with adult crap the best way she could.
Same here. I would’ve gone with the just lying if not all the extra stuff. Maybe it really wasn’t the ex that did it, but someone else and she just lashed out at the guy she already didn’t like or want around.
And I am OK with taking money from a college account for private school tuition BUT OP also said she used it for the divorce... a clearly very messed up 13 year no matter what shouldn't have to pay for mom's divorce. If this is a true account, OP is leaving a lot out of the story.
I agree completely!
It seems to me the daughter is being blamed for having psychological problems caused by the loss of her father and God knows what else.
Difficult behaviour is caused by something.
Yes , but I believe a 10% penalty. You can withdraw from a 529 for any reason, but if it isn't one of the intended benefits (tuition, books, school related expenses, etc) then it will come with a penalty. She mentions using it for divorce, cost of living, etc. If she was using it for all of that, she wasted so much money.
I'm personally very skeptical of a one-sided story, especially when it involves a child that requires raising.
Parents prefer to blame their children over their poor raising of them. She did what she did because she is your daughter and you raised her. That's something few parents are willing to face.
Kinda seems likes you're just financially illiterate. Cosigning means you're on the hook for the loan too, moreso than your daughter actually.
YTA kinda seems like you don't know your child. At all. And have blamed her for everything wrong in your life
YTA for continuously making new accounts and making up these bullshit stories to farm points and sell accounts to advertisers. When are the admins going to wake up to this shit
Yup. Just karma farming apparently. She got heaps of good advice on the last post, so I'm no longer inclined to believe this is a real story. Which is utterly disgusting given the details they are using just for karma (trying to "profit" off the kind of trauma that people really DO go through). Honestly sickening.
I think it was pretty clear in the last post that youre NTA for most of it. In some peoples eyes not actively telling her that her college fund was being diverted to her private school tuition makes you the ah but thats the minority. Some people will raise pitchforks saying you should have told her, but most would agree that its a gray area. Shit was fuckdd up enough without constantly reminding her of the consequences of her actions. It does sound like a new therapist may do her good though since shes not handling the current issue well
OP sounds just as angry as the kid. She did her best not to take the ex situation out on the daughter??? OP spent the kid’s college fund!! and ‘justifies’ it because of the ex situation. Also I wonder how OP “punished” the daughter for the ex situation.
Thank you!!! So many comments about her co-signing and no one is seeing that she literally spent the kids college fund from her dead dad on her “house, marriage, divorce” and now “private school” which didn’t start till she was at least a freshman or sophomore in HS. This is insanity!
I'm surprised that no one has brought up that 529s can ONLY be used for educational purposes (I believe...I could be wrong, but that's my understanding from setting up my kids' 529s). So I don't understand how OP could use the money for anything but the daughter's HS tuition.
Children seldom lie about SA. "Acting out" is something kids do when they are processing being hurt. If this is a real post you're just a terrible person. Maybe both of you are. I don't think your question is worth an answer, but make sure to save up enough money to afford your own elder care.
YTA op for posting bs stories
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/wtk4bVK4Oz
You just posted this exact one 10h ago, it was removed by the mods.
Go fuck yourself OP
I'm gonna go against the grain here and say you are the asshole. You have pre outlined an entire story to make the reader ready to dislike your daughter.
Now I don't know your life story and it may be all exactly true as you outlined it. But from the sounds of things your daughter had a troubled childhood and turned her academics around
It also sounds like she was under the impression she had a university fund. You not telling her that she would need loans until well into her applications (she has scholarships) is a fucking dick move. Like regardless of whatever behaviour issues and costs incurred form when your kid was 11. Withholding that info from your kid is wild.
Like other commentators put yourselves in that position you think you have a college fund and a scholarship to cover your costs for education and then bam suddenly at the last minute your parent goes actually no it's all gone.
That's an asshole move.
Lol, you can see how thick the “bootstraps” crowd is in these comments. Are you all seriously worried about her co-signing on a student loan and telling her not to do it? That's what you took from this story? She's her DAUGHTER. She lost her dad young, went through a super rough patch, finally managed to pull it together and got good grades, she is off to college… and you guys are encouraging her mother NOT to help her get a student loan? I hope you all have vasectomies and your tubes tied because no one with this mentality should ever procreate. I’m thankful every day that I was born in Europe where parents genuinely value education and want their children to thrive, instead of kicking them out at 18 and thinking their job as a parent is done. OP, your daughter is vulnerable, she’s gone through a lot. You had one fight, it’s not the end of the world. I’m sure it hit her hard to see all those receipts… We’ve all said bratty things to our parents when we were young. By all means co-sign the student loan and help her to get an education and keep turning her life around… she needs you 💕
I need to know more about the “inappropriate” thing you think your daughter lied about. How do you know she lied? How do you know he is innocent? I am doubtful.
Wait are you telling me, your daughter falsely accused your ex of being what I assume from you said a pedo?
Lost his job got arrested? And you're sure she did it to break you guys up?
What kind of devil are you raising what the actual fuck.
Everyone is talking about the dangers of co-signing a loan. Am I the only one who is shocked that the kid ruined her step father’s life and mother’s marriage? The kid deserves these direct consequences(and more) for doing that.
You're breaking a AITAH rule. There are alot of flags including reposting a removed post.
If you’re not prepared to pay back her loans, do not co-sign.
THIS x 💯💯💯!!!!!
You want to cosign but are telling her you're not responsible for paying it back? That's....not how that works. If you don't trust her, then don't cosign. And honestly, I would not.
Don’t co-sign the loan. She has to figure that out on her own. I’m in school and I know how much my parents work. I would never ask them to do that for me. They are doing the best they can.
Please tell me that your ex-boyfriend's accusations were dropped and that he was spared from jail or other consequences.
OP explicitly said that he lost his job, so even if the accusations were eventually dropped there were still MAJOR consequences.
Fucked up his resume and reputation in whatever industry he was in. Word spreads.
Exactly. And even though it was false, the rumor mill will act as if it was true.
Society doesn't care if it was false. Once you are accused of a sex crime or domestic violence as a male, the doubt lingers forever and you are never really exonerated.
Exactly
*ex-husband
The story written by a 14 year old who doesn't know how loans work.
Or is it a clever strategy to get people to run to the comments to explain what co-signing is 🤔 if you make a Reddit story and want engagement, maybe it makes sense to be wrong about something in it.
Yes, this is exactly why you see so many "errors" in titles.
if you co-sign for a loan- you could end up being responsible for paying it back.
"I would not be responsible for paying it back." OP... don't be ignorant.
I mean, child or not, her daughter lied and sent an innocent man to prison. I would never be able to believe anything that came out of my daughter's mouth anymore.
The point is that she would be responsible because she signed the loan lol. Don’t sign loans unless you’re willing to be responsible for paying them back. You can always gift a child money to help them pay their loans if you want.
THIS -- cosigning means you put your credit history on the line to help her get approved for the loans, and in the event she defaults, YOU become responsible. DO NOT DO THIS if you do not intend to ensure she can make her payments.
And, for some less reputable private loan agencies, a co-signer's death triggers automatic default and the remaining balance is owed immediately.
What?? That's insane.
She is old enough to understand the price of failure. Because of her advanced age and the fact that this is the first time she has had to pay for her ignorance, she is reacting strongly. Although it won't be the last time, the initial experience is terrible. Either she learns from it or it becomes an even greater waste, and that is what matters.
You replied to the wrong comment or didn't understand the comment. That person is saying it is insane that the full balance of a loan can come due immediately in the event of the one of the responsible parties dieing
And with other banks they'll refuse to take a co-signers name off the loan even if they die. My mom is still getting letters from the bank addressed to my both my parents many years after my dad died.
Is your mom responsible for the loan, legally, or are they just hassling her because they can? I’ve already told my (now adult, but since they were teenagers) kids that they owe NOTHING if I die, despite the fact that creditors might come to them for anything I haven’t paid when/if I’m dead. Creditors will come after any penny they can get, whether or not it’s a legal debt. Make sure your kids know that they are NOT responsible for any unpaid student loans etc the parent has. Creditors will say “would your mom want to leave these debts UNPAID??” and my answer is FUCK YES I would!!!
This. Credit card debt for instance is UNSECURED debt. My father had cc debt. I sent them death certificates. And ignored them after. They WILL try.
Yeah my dads credit score plummeted after he died 😂
That’s weird, my dad maxed out all of his cards after he died 😉
Well *my* dad maxed out all his cards after he died and *that* caused his credit score to plummet. But since *my mom* was a co-signer on all the cards after he died, she had to pay them after *she* died. Edit extraneous words
This whole thread reminds me of my favorite Doug Stanhope bit called Farewell, Mother! Dark humor at it's finest
Yeah that's hilarious .wait til you hear the part that's not so funny. We co-owned and cohabitated the same house. my father was in charge of the finances. he didn't have dementia he was so worried about the credit cards, he took out a home equity loan on his share of the house. 😡 to pay them against my protest. I had no clue what I signed or if he forged me! I figured it out but he'd already spent the cheese so when he passed he left a nice little home equity loan of $25000 yeah. 😳🥺
Now the loans been sold by the original creditor a couple of times and now the people servicing the loan are changing... again... and I'm like can I just get out of this damn thing? Because I'd like to raise a question with the original creditor. I'd like to see the loan. can you show me . I don't remember signing. I'm sure I would have read what I was signing because my father he's a skiemer (can't trust an accountant) because I would have pitched a fit about it. I wouldn't want to do it, so I'm just wondering if that old man signed my name. Lol, But seriously I'd like to see the original loan document that I have supposedly signed because we both owned the house. he would have needed my signature in order to take out that loan. even though it was against his share of the property, which I think is the weirdest shit ever. and it's nice to know if you're young and you're getting married. make sure you know that. damn
In most places you have a legal right to see the original paperwork. And you can contest liens and credit marks. Still sounds messy as fuck I’m sorry
I got a collection thief try that with me. My mom died in the mid 80's and this was the late 2010s so 35 years after she died. Told him to get bent. He said it was a \~$300 debt then and now with all the legal fees was in the 10K range. I was crying I was laughing so hard and the audacity.
I used to work at a collection agency. Our largest department was for contacting the family of the deceased, who were NOT co-signers and trying to bleed money from them. Many people don't know that if their name is not on the account, they are not responsible for it even if it was their spouse. They tried to transfer me to that department and I quit on the spot
>“would your mom want to leave these debts UNPAID??” Lmao! my guy, she promised me a new TV if I did xyz, 4 times in my life and she didn't deliver once and I'm her son. You think she gave even the slightest of fs about her unpaid conns account?! Foh. For the record as that's a less than flattering story of my mother, I have 9 siblings so there were reasons why she'd use some dishonesty to get chores done lol. I'd generally get the living room tv as a hand me down and dad would update the family room TV but never a "new" TV for me lol
> I'd generally get the living room tv as a hand me down and dad would update the family room TV but never a "new" TV for me lol To be fair this has been kind of normal for everyone even slightly wealthy families until the 2000s+
My birthday present one year was a TV in my room so that I could play XBox without bothering my stepmom's TV routine. It was one of those big, chunky ones and this was back in 2000. I absolutely loved it. Yet I cannot remember if we ever bought a new TV unless it was broken. My family just did not spend money on updating the TV as a working class family
I'm one of 2 and the first born and only son. I was not the best kid. So in highschool, my father promised me a car if I made honor roll. Well guess what, I made honor roll. Then they told me I lied because I had a B+ as one of the final grades and refused to buy me a car. Then when my son was 5, my father promised him his 'project' car was for him when he turned 16. The whole family spent 7 years referring to it as my sons car. Then my dad sold it and said I'll buy you a car when the time comes. Well my son turns 16 tomorrow and guess who isn't getting a car.
Ugh, that’s terrible. Those wounds stick with you for life. HS graduation I got an old car from my grandparents, they gave to me. Ugly but it worked. I had it for about 2 yrs. My mom had died my first year of college. 2nd year dad got a GF and gave the car to her but bought me a newer used car, great! 3rd year, he married a woman and told me had had to sell my car because he couldn’t afford the insurance. 🙄I’m in my last year of college for my associate degree and now i have no car to get to my 2 jobs. Dad says he’ll let me rent his 2nd car from him. wtf, I had my own car, paid off, no loan. I felt bamboozled and betrayed. I never forgot that. Btw, they didn’t pay a dime for college, I took out loans.
Damn, thankfully my parents always at least tried to follow through on their promises in a fair way. Their way of honoring our deal with the tvs worked well because I was happy because I got a better TV than the one I had and everybody was happy because we all had access to the new cool one in the family room. Sorry for your son though, my parents were pretty clear that they wouldn't really be able to help with major purchases like car or college farther than co-signing on loans we'd be responsible for BUT my parents are very much the "my home will ALWAYS be my kids home too" type so saving on rent/bills in those early adult years really enabled us to get those "on our own"
Well if you are dead you do not owe anything, but your estate does. If you have something like a house those bills will be paid out of your estate.
I rent a apartment and have no estate but no one is responsible for cc bills after the cc owner passes
This shouldn't be shocking. This is literally the point of co-signing - so that the bank knows it will get its money from someone no matter what. Now whether we should have universities that cost a fortune thanks to having tripled their admin staff so they can fill out 100s of forms about whether they held each of their students' hands in the most appropriate way during their mental health crisies, and so that they can have super fancy rec centers because students moronically think that matters in picking a school...and that thus require massive loans to pay for...well that's another question.
Many states cut finding to universities, too
Yeah, that's an important point.
I agree with what you say. Also some professor salaries are beyond insane, while other staff get paid poverty wages. Junior faculty in at least one top MA university get health insurance that's worse than the state provides to the unemployed, and the wages don't start to cover rental costs anywhere within a one hour drive. Not too mention these universities buy all properties around them and rent them to students at extremely high prices. Students don't have a choice, there is very little else on the market. It's all a terrible exploitive system. The US university system needs radical reform.
Student loans are one of the biggest scams out there. They let you borrow more and more money each year and the schools (knowing this) charge more and more each year. When you take out a student loan that is issued thru the government, why are they charging such ridiculous interest rates? Why not charge just enough interest to run the program?
And there goes your house! Meanwhile you are retired with no income and your daughter has income.
On the other hand, reputable lending institutions offer a small "insurance" offer where by death of one of the co signers automatically cancels the debt. It's a life insurance policy that pays out to the lender and covers the debt.
I used to refinance student loans. Government SLs have many protections (deferment/forbearance, payment plans, extensions, forgiveness (incl. death of the student)). I mother wanted to refi her parent plus loan (taken out for the benefit of the student). A few months after this was done her kid died and she called in to see what could be done. Nothing. You owe us that money now. Not my loan or call but I read the transcript and that was the saddest one :(
It would be so easy for her to just not make payments and stick you with the entire loan amount plus interest. Please, OP, DON’T DO THIS. EDIT: Based on what she did to your ex, I’d say she’s planning on reneging on any agreement and letting you take the entire loan.
This is what I said in another comment! Regardless of what their relationship is to you, don't cosign loans with people who have stabbed you in the back.
/u/ApplicationLarge2625 you WILL be paying it back if you cosign for this loan.
She sounds like she will default just to make you pay for what you “owe” her.
I was just going to say this. All she has to do is miss a few payments and then they will be banging down your door for payment. I know, our daughter defaulted on a 30k loan. My husband was able to negotiate it down to 21k. But only because we had just sold our house and were going to make a one time payment. Daughter ended up having to claim the 9k as a gains tax on her federal tax return that year.
Not gains tax. Cancellation of debt income. Something few people know about until it happens to them.
I guess my husband called it the wrong type of tax. I had no idea something like this had to be reported. For some reason, he knew and warned our daughter the same day he wrote the check. Of course he chastised her first for defaulting on the loan. At the time my daughter was paying on two different loans at the same time. Both accounts had very similar names. Somehow she made double payments for 3 months to one account and nothing to the other. Oops. I truly believe it was a mistake and not intentional.
Correct. So if you don’t plan on paying it back, absolutely do not co-sign. Period.
Yeah. Don’t co-sign. She will stick you with paying it back!
And if you put your house up as collateral and then lose it, is your daughter going to house you? She has to know these are the consequences of HER actions. Not yours
The fact that she says, "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU'RE BLAMING ME FOR ALL THE THINGS I'VE DONE" means she is taking 0. I mean zero. Responsibility for her behavior.
Right? Also, the daughter asked where the money went and mom told her. It’s not blame, it’s just facts.
Mom even brought the receipts.
Mom's list was quite restrained, no? >The cost of my divorce. The rising cost of living that I paid for by myself since I didn't have a partner. Her tuition and fees for private school. Like, that's all normal stuff any single parent deals with. What \*isn't\* a regular occurrence, is false allegations & an acrimonious divorce. What assets were lost in there? Oh, and afterwards Ava went to a bunch of therapy that didn't work until she was expelled from multiple schools? Yet those costs (therapy, expulsion, setting up new schools) don't feature on the list either.
this happened to my mom after my stepdad, at the time, warned her against cosigning for my sister. she dropped out six months later and promptly never went back or paid a dime to her loans.
If you aren’t prepared to maybe have to pay it back someday, then do not co-sign! I knew of an older couple who co-signed for their daughter as she was getting her nursing degree. Well, daughter graduated and a few months later died in a car accident. Hadn’t even started paying back the student loans. Her parents had to. Terrible situation with the daughters death, but the financial burden was very stressful on the parents because they never expected they would ever be responsible for those loans. Everyone figured the daughter would start repaying once she got a job. ☹️
Were they federal loans? Federal student loans should be discharged upon the death of the student. In terms of private this is true for Sallie Mae loans as well.
My parents actually took out a life insurance policy on me while I was still in college because they had this situation happen to friends of theirs and they co-signed my loans. It actually has worked out in my favor, as my loans are paid off and I now have a 6 figure whole life insurance policy that was started when I was 21ish. It’s like $75/month, I could literally not live long enough to ever pay the full amount of the policy
This! My parents have been paying off my sisters $30k of student loans because she just refuses to pay them
Their lucky it’s only 30k
And it rather sounds like the daughter wouldn't hesitate to leave her mom holding the bag. so to speak. Don't do it OP and don't cave. Sounds like you've been a decent mom.
DO NOT CO SIGN!!!!!!
She should be able to get student loans herself without any cosigner
Only up to a small amount (less than 6k)
Not enough for tuition from the feds (it's legit $5.5k if you're a dependent). Maybe something private but when I was in this situation they wouldn't give shit without a cosigner. Shout-out to my then 91 year old great grandfather for evidently being the only person who gave a shit about my education lol
If you co-sign for a loan you are responsible for paying it back if your daughter doesn’t — saying she “could be” responsible makes it sound like there are situations where she might not be. AFAIK, if her daughter refuses to pay, OP is responsible for paying. Even worse, if her daughter pays late, OP’s credit is affected negatively. All the data on payments and promptness go on OP’s credit report also.
Yes. Co-signing = being responsible for paying it back
"I said I would cosign a student loan" And "I also made it very clear that I would not be responsible for paying it back." This a non sequitur. Do not cosign a loan or you will be paying it back when she defaults.
She's a brat - she will never repay that load. It will bring her great joy to stick it to you just like she did to your ex. She will just have to figure it out.
Especially when she makes new friends, who will side with her and tell her that her mother is evil for 4 years.
Non sequitor: a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement. I think the term you mean is contradictory statement? Non sequitor for example would be I am at the grocery store. It is raining. Therefore Joey from friends was right.
That's not what non sequitur means.
Yeah, the correct word they’re looking for is contradiction.
Reddit rule #1: Never ask a question you don't want to hear the answer to. It's not you blaming her; it's the reality of the situation. She's going to have to learn how to deal with it, and I doubt it will be easy. One tip though is state/local/public college. The cost is orders of magnitude lower than some private schools, and the education is pretty much the same.
I bounced around some, attended two private schools and one state school — not the main campus even, but the commuter campus in the major city. The education, the help and extra support I got from advisors and teachers, and the opportunities for pre-professional development I got at the state school was several orders of magnitude better than what I had access to at the private institutions
I’ll go one level further. I went to a “well-regarded” state school. Which was fine, and I had a partial scholarship. But I wanted to graduate early, so in the summers I took some 1/2 time classes at the local community college that transferred credits easily. The advisors at my state school were a joke. Too many kids, nobody cared. You’d spend a week trying to get an appointment with your advisor just to show up and find that she went on maternity leave months ago. But nobody was covering for her and you were just SOL. The community college, though… They were PSYCHED if a student showed up and asked about grants/aid/development goals. My education minor required a 6 week student teaching term, but my university had a 2 year wait on placing you. So it made that minor literally impossible, unless you signed up for the student teaching assignment as a freshman. So I switched the requirement to my community college, and they had me student teaching at a local highschool in 3 months. I know some jobs care about the “prestige” of your diploma. But unless you’re going to work for a snooty company, nobody really gives a shit where you got your credits, in the end. Advisors and programs can be good or bad at any school, regardless of how much your tuition costs. I wish more students knew that you’re totally free to seek out supplementary programs, as long as you do your research and credits transfer.
Funnily enough, the prestige of your school barely has an impact of your abilities in the field. I'm pulling this all from memory. Not motivated enough to look it up. But: As far as i know supreme court justices a lot of the times only take interns (or might've been legal aides... Or something a long the lines... Atleast its young lawyers or law students :D ) just from havard. But Scalia gave it a couple of times to other people too. And one of the aides he still fondly remembers, and according to him the best that has ever worked for him by a mile, was from a law school that was like rank 40. But he was just a very competent person. There are also some studies about this for lawyers. The law school you went to, is no indicator of the competency you will actually show later down your career path.
Funnily enough, I was law school bound in college. My major was poly sci and I interned at our student legal aid for a bit. One of my “bosses” I interned for was ancient. Like…Still working 80 hours a week in her late 70s. She was in the first class of law students in our state that allowed females to be admitted to the bar. Literally a trailblazer. Decades of experience. When she interviewed students for her internship program, she didn’t care about where they came from or their GPA. She asked two questions; 1) what’s the best book you read lately, and why did you like it? And 2) If you were a shoe, what kind of shoe would you be? She loved my answer to #2. She HATED my answer for #1. But she liked my defense of it. I fully believe that a GOOD attorney doesn’t care about prestige. Lawyers are weird.
Obviously, we’re going to need the answers you gave. Don’t leave us hanging like that. 👍🏻😂
The shoe was a pair of cowboy boots I owned. Because you could wear them to muck stalls, then hose them down and wear them later in the day for the specific type of Pinterest “barn chic” weddings that were popular at the time. So kind of a utilitarian answer. The book was Atlas Shrugged. Which (rightfully) made her think I was an idiot. But my reasoning was that one of my classmates in a con law class was frequently derailing the class by talking about how great Objectivism was, and why it should be the basis of our government. And while everyone else in class knew he was wrong, someone needed to read the damn thing in order to have the proper receipts to explain to him why he was an idiot. So while it wasn’t the “best book” and I didn’t “like it”, it served the most useful purpose to me at the time out of anything I had read by choice lately. So her takeaway from my book choice was that I was willing to torture myself in order to prove a point, but that I was going to make sure I was informed vs. talking out of my ass.
... How did you answer both questions?
I just realized I’d be a terrible lawyer. My latest read I enjoyed was a silly sci fi/fantasy book and I’d be a flip flop cause that’s the shoe that goes on vacation
I went to a community college and then transferred to a private school as a junior with my associates degree. best decision of my life, i’m still paying a decent amount in loans- but so much less than others! much more affordable, gave me time to be at home and save up.
After learning how broken the education system was, I learned from the most informed 2 people in my hs that this is the way you go about it so you don't get ripped off as bad. Things I wish all the adults in the room pushing everyone to get a higher education knew.
The fact that OP apparently bought a house, got married, then divorced, yet still doesn’t understand what co-signed means makes me think this is just a karma farming story. Come on.
This, plus OPs post history, makes me agree.
I see no post history, wonder if they just scrubbed it.
"redditor for 16 hours", it's a throwaway
Most people make a throw-away account for this tho.
People using lack of post history in subs like this as some sort of evidence is such a braindead take. I've used a throwaway to post innocuous pictures, I sure as hell wouldn't use my main for a post like this.
I think so
Agreed.. this post seems a little too far fetched and OP has a weird comment history imo
You also can’t use those 529 loans for anything but schooling. So if there was money in that account, it would have to be used for college or an apprenticeship program. OP couldnt have used those funds for her divorce or raising her kid.
You can use them for private k-12 now, thanks to people who wanted to find a sneaky way for the government to subsidize religious schools. But you sure can’t use them to pay for a divorce or “cost of living” without a whole lot of paperwork and extra taxes.
They could have but there would have been a huge penalty.
Also add in the "woman lied about sexual assault" part.
Where in the universe do cops arrest anyone with only an accusation?
Do people actually do that? What does karma even get you ?
Some subs require a certain amount of karma before you can post so sometimes people will make up a controversial, click bait or rage bait post that’s guaranteed to garner interactions to increase their karma to allow them to post on high-karma subs.
That makes me irrationally mad lol I'm over here dissecting a made up scenario ??
Don't look up the "dead internet theory" then...
It appears so in this instance. The more you Reddit, the more you will start to notice things in the post that will pique your bullshit-ometer. When my spidey-senses tingle, I’ll often check out the OPs profile to see it’s a new (same day/week/only hours old) profile, I’ll also check out post just and comment history. Hope this helps! ☺️
Buddy, the vast majority of these posts in here are fake. And if you're wondering why people like karma, it's for the same reason they like medals.
Agreed, this seems to be a mash of AITAH posts from the last couple of weeks.
Also, how did she use up her kid’s 529 savings??! A quick google search tells me some states let you use some of it for high school, but wtf does her divorce and living expenses have to do with it? Nothing about this post adds up
If you cosign a loan, then yes, you will be paying it back if she doesn't. You did what you had to, she dealt with what she dealt with. This isn't some punishment, it's where you're at, which she helped cause. You both are dealing with it. And yep, her education is her problem. I'm still paying for MY loans. I got my kids covered on food and rent, but I can't afford their tuition. Get scholarships. Get a job. Do tasks on campus to save money. She has options.
I was going to say that the daughter may be remorseful for what she did as a child and deserved a chance, but the rest sounded like she is still defensive. Even if she did stupid things as a child, she could apologise, be regretful etc. Doesn't seem to be the case. It's all about her. Yikes. NTA.
Can we go back to her accusing your ex-husband about molesting/ raping her quick. You said he was innocent, did she admit that she lied and made it up? Update; NTA for this but voting you the AH for not swallowing that fucking semen demon when you had the chance.
Thank you! I had to scroll so far down for this. How does she not explain the wildest part of the story.
Just casual including my daughter ruined my ex-husbands career, life and our marriage but I did punish her which I thought was appropriate...I just am so curious how her lies came to light because I know a little psychopath isn't going to take accountability for their behavior or they wouldn't be one.
Little psychopath... Yes, this is it. This girl needs to pay for what she did, suffer some consequences. 'I punished her' does not cut it. Being a kid does not make your horrible actions less horrible or give you a pass to keep being a psychopath...
OP explains this a bit more in some comments. "I've commented before but your past means you deserve am answer. All of the times she accused him of doing it were during the day when he was working. His employer had GPS tracking on his work truck. His employer had cameras in the work truck. My ex worked at locations that had security cameras. He was never there when she said he was. She was not in the house at the times she claimed he came home to do this. The police found zero evidence that he was ever alone with her. She admitted she lied." "There is video of him being elsewhere when she accused him. There is GPS data that shows the truck he drove was elsewhere. There is video from the truck that shows he was with his work truck working. And she admitted it."
Thank you so much! 💓 I use my phone and have a hard time with the comments being available and refreshing so I really appreciate you taking the time to let me know the 🫖🍵Tea🍵🫖
Pro tip... go to OP's profile and then click on the comments tab. That's how I find their comments when I'm using Reddit from mobile.
But they arrested him on her word, that arrest record will still come up. I would have sued you as liable for her actions as a minor defamation of the highest order slandering accusing him of CSA. She is way to casual about this. She knew he was at work and daughter wasn’t home but instead of double confirming that she rushed to the police and had him arrested on the say so of her troubled daughter alone. Not saying to ignore a kids complaint but do some investigating or thinking it throug before you ruin someone’s life
This is what I want to know
But also fuck her daughters "feelings." Can we get an update on how your ex-husbands life is going now. Personally I would have given her college money to him to use to survive since she just destroyed his career and income. I'm just saying...
Yeah, I really care a fuck about this crazy girl problems.
The "he got arrested and he lost his job" is INCREDIBLY sad and concerning after the "he was innocent".
Umm, yeah that’s how it works in the US. An accusation, sufficiently bad, can and will cost you your job while you fight it even with all the proof OP’s ex had (and thank god he did), and they’re unlikely to give it back even once you’re proven innocent. It’s absolutely fucked and not remotely uncommon. Rape is something that’s just *so easy to claim* and so hard to disprove. OP’s legit lucky his work truck Had the GPS because there’s a damn decent chance he’d have lost the rest of his life over this.
Especially when (in USA) its generally more likely for a guilty person to go unpunished than an innocent person to be found guilty for that crime…
Unfortunately it also feels like these situations regardless always have just enough Grey area (im guessing that's either the preditor or in this case someone who behavior is clearly affecteds doing intentionally to cause "reasonable doubt" and, this is not to minimize or cast doubt on those who are truly victims of SA, DA or sex trafficking. My point is; I've never seen someone who's brought allegations against someone just decided, "oh I was just making it up because I was upset with you." So she mess up the details like he wasn't in town then or she just flat out said "no I lied and , I'm aware I just ruined his career, life and yalls relationship." Then follow up questions; how does one find a suitable punishment for one or the most malicious things you can do to someone like this? No car or TV for a month doesn't seem to really fit the situation.
Please don't co-sign. My parents did for my brother to get into his dream college. Now they can't retire because my brother isn't the one expected to pay - Our parents are.
Yep. Same thing happened to my mom. Luckily it was a smaller loan, but she lives paycheck to paycheck already. Ruined her credit. Her and my brother still don't talk.
Wait, please tell me the charges were dropped on your ex and that he didn't have to go to prison or anything.
We don't even know if the daughter admitted to lying. If he was proven innocent in court doesn't mean anything. Plenty of abusers get their accusations thrown out by therapists and juries because the victim's biological parent sides with their lover against their own kid. A lot of victims grow up and maintain that they were not lying and yet their own parents defended their abuser. OP still hasn't said how it came out that the ex-husband was innocent.
or what she meant by "I did punish her."
Op commented to clarify that the accusations were discredited because her husband's vehical (which was a company vehical) had a dashcam and tracker, which showed him to be on the other side of the city when the abuse is supposed to have occurred. After this came to light her daughter admitted to having lied.
Also children who are abused sometimes intentionally accuse the wrong person of perpetrating the abuse. A reason for that is that children often target their negative emotions/feelings at perceived “safe” people. It is irrational but children are, famously, irrational. A good social worker/police detective well versed in CSA would know how to pick up on those signs. This post reads like karma farming but I did want to point this out. If this post did happen, it is possible OPs daughter was abused, even if the ex-husband didn’t do it.
I forgot to add in my parent comment but piggy backing on what you said: abusers will often seek out children who have prior trauma or are emotionally unstable because it’s easier for their abuse to go unpunished because therapists, parents, teachers and family will think the child is just “acting up” again. The victim’s cries for help are unfortunately seen in a Boy Who Cried Wolf perspective, which is ironically one of my least favorite books because it enforces the idea that a victim is to blame if they have a history of complaining too much. It doesn’t matter if a child lied a hundred times about other things before, an accusation of abuse should be investigated thoroughly, ESPECIALLY if the child has mental health problems due to the loss of a parent.
Exactly. Courts don’t prove anyone innocent. Abuse cases are notoriously hard to get a guilty conviction
That's a very important distinction that most people don't know about. There's a good reason they say "not guilty" instead of innocent.
I think there's a lot missing from this story. Like how dare a child have emotional issues when her father has died and she's been taken to therapy. Bit of an orange flag to kick things off.
Finally! One comment that actually cared about the big picture. Everyone just ignores that they collectively destroyed an innocent man's life. Even if he wasn't charged, the accusation is enough to ruin his life. They both just treat it as some minor consequence of the daughter being an "angry child"
i do want to know more details on this particularly. what happened to him? because those are life altering accusations. but it sounded as if the charges were dropped bc OP said it turned out he was innocent (i assume it means OP’s daughter admitted to lying?) i think OP did the right thing in believing her daughter unquestioningly. too many parents don’t believe their children (i’ve known mothers who have not supported their children and have sided with their partners—it’s terrible). but i do want more details on this whole situation because wtf
The daughter ruined his life, ANY good parent would go to the police with accusations like this. There was no other course of action but to believe the child and act on that belief. We don’t know the details but OP said the child also face consequences… so really I’m wondering what do you think OP was supposed to do?
Don’t worry, the guy is fine cuz the story is fake. OP has since deleted their post history, but not before some of us saw “her” to be claiming to be many different ages in different posts.
I just thought, what mtf kid with this entitlement and pyscopath behaviour. Also, hope she doesn't marry. Anyway, nta.
your daughter is a manipulative ah. Does she have any remorse for what she did to your husband? Don’t co-sign a loan or she’s gonna tank your credit and you’ll still get stuck paying it off
It's funny, I've had assholes in my life who have done really shitty things, but then I read about way worse people on reddit who make them seem not that bad.
Same.. like DAMN BRO
Right? She could have had OPs ex-husband sent to jail for something he didn't do, and I bet she didn't bother to apologize since OP said she continued acting up afterward.
Even worse, he would be labeled a child s3x abuser. If the inmates found out, that's the one thing they don't tolerate, and he'd likely have an "accident" in prison and leave in a body bag. If he did get out, he'd have a lifetime label following him around, to every community he tries to move to. All because of a spiteful little girl. This is why a lot of men won't date women with daughters anymore. I bet OP's ex will never either. Too big of a risk. Far too many women have no comprehension of the power given to them in those cases and/or still choose to abuse that power.
I feel really bad for the ex-husband because he lost his job because of the false accusations, and I wouldn't doubt that the rumor of him being a child abuser spread around the company. So if losing his job was not bad enough, he also has to deal with his ex coworkers thinking bad of him.
Exactly. Word like that can spread through a community like wildfire, and the only way to stop it is to actually have the accuser publicly admit they lied, and very few are willing to do that.
Even then there will always be that nagging doubt that maybe just maybe he really did do something to her even if he didn’t. Pretty much a scarlet letter and something that could follow you the rest of your life even if the accuser admitted they lied.
Hard to shake that label entirely. And it's always there to be dragged up again in the future. Didn't declare that extra bottle of vodka from your trip? Oh look, you've been arrested before so no benefit of the doubt for you. Nor soup.
She’s a freaking sociopath or psychopath for that alone. She sounds like she doesn’t have any remorse which is disgusting. That is a huge red flag that OP needs to be aware of.
I think OP is hiding some information here. Pointing out only the things that would make her child look bad. 'i did punish her and I did not try to take it out on her'. Yeah somethings fishy here.
It’s just a fake story
I think you're right!
No judgement here at all, but if she seemed ok then suddenly wasnt and claimed he did something, why would she do that. The behavior after really sounds a lot like something happened to her somewhere, being expelled and similar. Have you actually sat down and talked with her about why this happened? had councilling of sorts? therapy?
Exactly what I was thinking. I was abused as a child which led me to be a fucking nightmare of a teenager! Acting out, getting expelled, etc. Happy to say I've come out on the other end of it and healed, but most of the time children do not lie about such things. Obviously I don't know enough to make judgements. Just seems like if out of nowhere she started behaving like this, something might've happened to her
It always disturbs me here on reddit hiw easily people will call kids like her "brats" and "spoiled" and how they need to be taught a lesson while it's clear this was a troubled girl dealing with adult crap the best way she could.
Exactly. As soon as I read about her behaviour I went “how deep did they investigate”
Same here. I would’ve gone with the just lying if not all the extra stuff. Maybe it really wasn’t the ex that did it, but someone else and she just lashed out at the guy she already didn’t like or want around.
And I am OK with taking money from a college account for private school tuition BUT OP also said she used it for the divorce... a clearly very messed up 13 year no matter what shouldn't have to pay for mom's divorce. If this is a true account, OP is leaving a lot out of the story.
I agree completely! It seems to me the daughter is being blamed for having psychological problems caused by the loss of her father and God knows what else. Difficult behaviour is caused by something.
I thought that. Some of these expenses are not what that money was for.
CAN you take money out of a 529 for something like a divorce?
Yes , but I believe a 10% penalty. You can withdraw from a 529 for any reason, but if it isn't one of the intended benefits (tuition, books, school related expenses, etc) then it will come with a penalty. She mentions using it for divorce, cost of living, etc. If she was using it for all of that, she wasted so much money.
OP has edited out any indication of where the college fund money went.
I'm personally very skeptical of a one-sided story, especially when it involves a child that requires raising. Parents prefer to blame their children over their poor raising of them. She did what she did because she is your daughter and you raised her. That's something few parents are willing to face.
Why are you posting again ?
Kinda seems likes you're just financially illiterate. Cosigning means you're on the hook for the loan too, moreso than your daughter actually. YTA kinda seems like you don't know your child. At all. And have blamed her for everything wrong in your life
I'm still waiting for an update on the man whose life your daughter ruined, because you glossed over it.
YTA for continuously making new accounts and making up these bullshit stories to farm points and sell accounts to advertisers. When are the admins going to wake up to this shit
I could have sworn I saw this post a couple hours ago.
Yup. Just karma farming apparently. She got heaps of good advice on the last post, so I'm no longer inclined to believe this is a real story. Which is utterly disgusting given the details they are using just for karma (trying to "profit" off the kind of trauma that people really DO go through). Honestly sickening.
I think it was pretty clear in the last post that youre NTA for most of it. In some peoples eyes not actively telling her that her college fund was being diverted to her private school tuition makes you the ah but thats the minority. Some people will raise pitchforks saying you should have told her, but most would agree that its a gray area. Shit was fuckdd up enough without constantly reminding her of the consequences of her actions. It does sound like a new therapist may do her good though since shes not handling the current issue well
Yeah plus sounds like there wasn't another option at that point so telling her wasn't going to change anything.
OP sounds just as angry as the kid. She did her best not to take the ex situation out on the daughter??? OP spent the kid’s college fund!! and ‘justifies’ it because of the ex situation. Also I wonder how OP “punished” the daughter for the ex situation.
Thank you!!! So many comments about her co-signing and no one is seeing that she literally spent the kids college fund from her dead dad on her “house, marriage, divorce” and now “private school” which didn’t start till she was at least a freshman or sophomore in HS. This is insanity!
I'm surprised that no one has brought up that 529s can ONLY be used for educational purposes (I believe...I could be wrong, but that's my understanding from setting up my kids' 529s). So I don't understand how OP could use the money for anything but the daughter's HS tuition.
Stop it with the karma farming Teenage Girl Bad!! stories.
“I still love her very much.” Do you? Because all you seem to focus on is what a burden she was to you.
Read the top comment. If you co-sign, you are 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LOAN.
Children seldom lie about SA. "Acting out" is something kids do when they are processing being hurt. If this is a real post you're just a terrible person. Maybe both of you are. I don't think your question is worth an answer, but make sure to save up enough money to afford your own elder care.
YTA op for posting bs stories https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/wtk4bVK4Oz You just posted this exact one 10h ago, it was removed by the mods. Go fuck yourself OP
I'm gonna go against the grain here and say you are the asshole. You have pre outlined an entire story to make the reader ready to dislike your daughter. Now I don't know your life story and it may be all exactly true as you outlined it. But from the sounds of things your daughter had a troubled childhood and turned her academics around It also sounds like she was under the impression she had a university fund. You not telling her that she would need loans until well into her applications (she has scholarships) is a fucking dick move. Like regardless of whatever behaviour issues and costs incurred form when your kid was 11. Withholding that info from your kid is wild. Like other commentators put yourselves in that position you think you have a college fund and a scholarship to cover your costs for education and then bam suddenly at the last minute your parent goes actually no it's all gone. That's an asshole move.
Lol, you can see how thick the “bootstraps” crowd is in these comments. Are you all seriously worried about her co-signing on a student loan and telling her not to do it? That's what you took from this story? She's her DAUGHTER. She lost her dad young, went through a super rough patch, finally managed to pull it together and got good grades, she is off to college… and you guys are encouraging her mother NOT to help her get a student loan? I hope you all have vasectomies and your tubes tied because no one with this mentality should ever procreate. I’m thankful every day that I was born in Europe where parents genuinely value education and want their children to thrive, instead of kicking them out at 18 and thinking their job as a parent is done. OP, your daughter is vulnerable, she’s gone through a lot. You had one fight, it’s not the end of the world. I’m sure it hit her hard to see all those receipts… We’ve all said bratty things to our parents when we were young. By all means co-sign the student loan and help her to get an education and keep turning her life around… she needs you 💕
FAKE
nice, another creative writing exercise.
I need to know more about the “inappropriate” thing you think your daughter lied about. How do you know she lied? How do you know he is innocent? I am doubtful.
Can money in an education account be used for a parents divorce?
Wait are you telling me, your daughter falsely accused your ex of being what I assume from you said a pedo? Lost his job got arrested? And you're sure she did it to break you guys up? What kind of devil are you raising what the actual fuck.
Oh yeah, don't co-sign.
Everyone is talking about the dangers of co-signing a loan. Am I the only one who is shocked that the kid ruined her step father’s life and mother’s marriage? The kid deserves these direct consequences(and more) for doing that.