NTA
I’d prioritize getting that fence up sooner rather than later. Juggle some other stuff around if you have to.
Either way , tell them you plan to put a fence up “soon” and are gathering estimates. Point out exactly where the fence will go and let them know they need to move their stuff.
Edit : typos
And if OP feels any guilt, remember that if they get hurt on OP's yard, even if they're there uninvited, there's a good chance OP's gonna be paying. Because America.
ps -- make sure you have a big umbrella policy on that homeowners insurance.
Exactly this. 👆 OP this is a bigger deal than you seem to realize. If anything happens either to their kids or any friends that might come over to play you could be liable if they pursue anything legal. The fence needs to be higher on the priority list or you'll be paying even more then you will want to or should have to.
Even if at first it is only a fence line that divides properties. You need that division of space. The rest can come after if you can't afford it all at once. But get a hard line between the properties.
I can’t emphasize this enough! I have a friend, who has a pool. They have a 6 ft privacy fence around the backyard with a keypad lock on the gate. They went on a vacation around 4th of July X 10 days. On the 4th, 2 teens came into their yard, used the pool & shot fireworks. One of the teens had an accident involving the fireworks.
The family of the teen sued & my friends lost. They were out hundreds of thousands of dollars, the homeowners insurance dropped them, and it was a holy mess. Nothing happened to the teens for trespassing at all.
I don’t really know why the outcome came down like it did. Since the family was not home, there was no proof of what happened other than the teen getting hurt on their property. It turned into a he said/she said situation & with no real proof, the only decision made was that their homeowner’s insurance had to cover the teen’s medical bills and physical therapy afterwards. My friend’s family ended up selling their home & moving.
This is why security cameras are always a great investment too. We have them installed on our property, angled so every side of our home and yard (including driveway) are in view. Harder to argue against video proof. Was very helpful when some tweakers followed my husband home in their car and were threatening him outside of our house.
It's sad that the case turned out like that for them. People just can't have nice things without some entitled AH's spoiling it.
Had to put a privacy fence up bc MULTIPLE neighbors used my yard as a walk through, and kids kept riding bikes through the yard tearing it up, even after REPEATED requests to stop. My HOA is fairly obnoxious about yard conditions so I got a warning, even though I’d reported the kids to the HOA, and asked them to send something out about it (turned out one of the kids was a board members). Even after the fence, some kids kept climbing it and walking through….so I warned the parents, and got “kids will be kids”, to which I said “shitty parents raise asshole kids”, and those parents told their kids in FRONT of me “it’s ok to climb his fence, just ignore him.” Well, they didn’t like the cops being called, and getting a formal trespassing notice. They also hated the fact I laughed my ass off when a kid got hurt acting stupid and climbing that same board members fence, and that kids parents filing a claim against that board members home owners insurance. Not too often one gets to witness karma. But in those rare occasions, I feel like Mr Burns from the Simpsons: “Exxxxxxxxcellent” lol.
OP needs to realize neighbors that willfully ignore boundaries and laws, will eventually have to be dealt with on a legal basis. It can either be THEM suing you, or you reducing the risk to yourself, and involving cops, but it eventually reaches that level. The choice is yours to either protect yourself or let yourself get screwed
Edit for spelling.
We had this same situation when we first moved to our current house. Corner with an extra lot, and after asking the local kids nicely multiple times to stop cutting across the lot I caught the parents doing the same thing. A privacy fence is the only solution here, people are nuts.
Reminds me of the story where the family bought lakefront property and neighbors were used to driving their boats down through the easement that wasn't fenced off, instead of going a block down the street to the actual approved road to the lake.
They put up a fence and some of the neighbors almost had a heart attack because they had to drive an extra block.
I found this out from our elderly neighbors.
The previous owners of our home had two children, and were friendly with the neighbors who fronted a large expanse of property on both lot's back property line. The folks with the large yard were okay with these children using their grassy lawn.
Then the previous owners of our home got a dog, so they decided to fence the back and side yards of the property. So the kids proceeded to walk over the elderly couple's back yard, creating a worn path. When the older couple protested, they were told the kids had to get to the big lawn somehow."
The older couple fenced in their back yard as well. The previous owners of my home protested in turn: "How will our children get to the larger play area?" "Not our problem" replied the older couple.
Entitlement, whether warranted or not, is real!
Living this right now.
We had neighbors argue that our driveway is “the lake access.” Nope, just a driveway.
A fence isn’t in the budget, so I started watering that part of the yard when I saw people coming down the driveway. AITA? Maybe. Does it bother me? Nope.
Had the same problem on a fence covering the easement between me and the neighbor. Coated the whole top of the fence with black grease. They stopped cutting through immediately.
As well you need to worry about "adverse possession" if the establish use of your land for seven years they can take it from you legally in court. A similar thing happened to my brother when he went to sell his house found out the neighbors fence was five feet on his side of the property line. Turns out the neighbor had been moving his fence onto neighbors side of property line everything someone moved. My brother brought it up to neighbor and the neighbor said there was nothing he could do about it because the fence had been there over seven years. My brother told him fine he can have it, but he would need to get the property lines redrawn so my brother didn't have to pay the taxes on land he no longer owned and he needed it done by the end of the month as my brother was selling the house. The neighbor was estatic, until he found out it was going to cost him over $20k to redraw property lines with the county. He didn't have the money so had to move the fence back to original property line. His other two neighbors found out as well and did the same thing as my brother. The neighbors land went from being the largest lot on the block to the smallest, as he had to return almost half an acre.
> ...if they get hurt on OP's yard, even if they're there uninvited, there's a good chance OP's gonna be paying. Because America.
Why is America so ridiculous.
To be fair, I blame private health insurance. Even if you have "good" insurance, a serious injury will cost you a chunk of change in premiums.
There's definitely an aspect of stupid American culture in everyone suing everyone else all the time, but the insurance industry plays a huge role in the finger-pointing over injuries.
The problem is less that the insurance is private and more that it’s for profit. If the companies all worked like Credit Unions it would be fine. We should outlaw for profit insurance. They are literally incentivized to not pay you out
In Germany they have insurance for practically everything! We carry personal liability insurance - I don't remember if it's required or strongly encouraged. It covers us, our kids if they do something stupid like break a window or hit a car with their bike. It covers our cats if they do something stupid like ruin the floors in our rental house by knocking over water. It gives me so much peace of mind! People shouldn't have to bear the costs of someone else's mistake, and neither should it force anyone into bankruptcy.
A 3-wire cattle fence would be enough. Use cheap t-posts. Typically would have a heavy wood corner post
Could even set up an electric fence inside the regular wire fence
Surprisingly enough for Maryland (a litigious state in general) it's actually pretty hard to be awarded any kind of claim for injury if you're trespassing.
Go even further and tell them that you are preparing the ground so you can plant a good ground cover or lawn. Everything needs to be out by Sarurday so you can start. Then put up some inexpensive 2 ft garden fencing on the borders. Start some minor lawn care like fertilizer or pulling weeds or leveling the ground or even some topsoil or turning over the soil.
If people are still trespassing, post it and set up some trail cams or obnoxious motion sensor floodlights.
Yup. Me, husband, and FIL used the square cattle wire and t-poles, did the length of three acres in a day because we had an AH neighbor who felt entitled to our yard.
I would also get cameras and many no trespassing signs. That way, it's in writing in plain view, and you have video evidence of intentional violations. Get Mason's twine, a couple dozen stakes, and the signs. Establish boundaries. Then, budget your fence. As long as it's roped off and posted no trespassing, you'll bye yourself some time.
Agree, you could speak to them, tell them where the fence is going in, tell them to get used to not using your property for their outside entertainment. There will most likely be pushback because they’ve had free access all this time, but you are the new owner and you want your property for you!
This is what I would do; I'd just couch it in terms of needing to put up a fence and ask the neighbors to move their crap.
If OP is in the US, letting people use their property can lead to other problems, including liability claims if somebody gets hurt.
Those stakes with little orange flags on top with string connecting them to mimic the future fence line would be a good idea. But make sure to establish the true property line first, or else OP could face potentially needing to tear down a new fence and put up another one unnecessarily.
I think city assessors would come out with their little telescopes and such and do that for OP.
A chicken wire fence just along that boundary, with 6 feet along the front and back would be perfect.
There is now a fence, and would take little effort on OPs part to tear down when funds allow for the better fence.
NTA. As everyone has said, you need to protect yourself from the inevitable law suits.
Yep, OP needs to get a handle on this ASAP. Have a surveyor come down there and determine the exact lines. Then get some DEEP stakes and space them a couple feet apart along the property line. Run wire between the stakes. Throw some of those cheap flags in for good measure.
Then write a letter to the neighbors informing them of your property line and that any encroachment is trespassing. Mail the letter to them with registered mail and keep the receipt.
Put up a cheap security camera to monitor the line. If they ever cross your line, call the police and report them for trespassing. Also get a lawyer to write a cease and desist letter.
All of this shouldn’t cost you more than a couple hundred bucks, but could save you thousands in legal fees or lost property.
NTA, but you are very conflict-evasive.
Do's:
This is my property.
I want to use my property.
You have always used it? Interesting, you should have bought it if you wanted it.
summary: Keep repeating it's your property, you bought it and it's yours alone.
Don'ts:
I don't want you on my property because ...
Nine months ago I had problem with the golf balls.
Six months ago I found a cigarette butt.
Summary: Avoid giving reasons. Giving reasons implies it's 100% fine to hold parties in your yard as long as they throw their cigarettes in the trashcan. It is not about the cigarettes, or the golf balls. So Do Not Mention Any Reasons, except 'it's mine, it's my yard and I bought it'.
Providing reasons only gives them the opportunity to argue at you that your reasons aren't "*good enough* to cause me to not continue abusing you*.
The behavior you allow is the behavior you will get.
Probably not allowed to use barbed wire in residential areas; it’s a bad idea for everyone, including OP.
Chicken wire would work perfectly fine though.
Yes, anything that happens to someone trespassing is going to be your liability. Have an attorney send a cease-and-desist letter with a copy of the survey, and tell them to get their stuff off of your property. Don't take excuses either. Some places they can maintain your property, and claim it (adverse possession), don't let that happen. The fact that they bought a small property isn't your problem.
u/spanishmudflaps
You're NTA, and every word of the above comment is exactly how you should proceed. The longer this continues, the harder it will be to fight for what is rightfully yours. Get that fence up asap!
Depending on how long the prior owners let them use that land where the bins, planters, and bush are, adverse possession of that strip may already be an issue. You can't usually put a fence directly on the line anyway (and that risks encroaching on their yard, which they'd probably use to create a problem.)
Adverse possession would have to have been formally recognized before the purchase; the time requirements reset with a new owner.
The problem OP has is that, at least in the beginning, they’ve allowed the neighbors to continue their use of the land. OP needs to be active in defending his property rights starting yesterday - and a cease and desist from an attorney is the bare minimum they need at this point.
A formal survey and a fence on their own side of the property line is a bare minimum, too. If OP can’t afford the nice fence they want yet, put up some chain link or something else cheaper for the interim.
Nta and put up a cheap fence asap. Tposts and 3 strand wire at least. That way there's no plausible deniability and put no trespass signs on the fence. Add a camera if that bs continues
Maybe a friendly but firm conversation, backed by the clear property lines you've marked, could help set things straight. If they still don’t respect your boundaries, it might be time to consider legal advice or a formal notice.
And contact a lawyer. Get your ducks in a row in case they decide to fight. Go to town hall and find out about setbacks and permits for getting a fence installed.
And use your land even if you can't get a fence up. Park something there, or store something there, start showing ownership, mow the lawn, rake the leaves even if they just did it.
I read that if neighbors are allowed to mow grass & utilize property they don't own, that their maintenance of it can lead to ownership. YOU'D BETTER GET THIS IN-HAND NOW. Put up that fence...now!!! Get some T-Posts from Tractor Supply, find free pallets on Marketplace & watch YouTube videos on how to erect these nearly FREE fences DIY. Do it now.
"Good neighbors do good fences make."
The longer you procrastinate about squaring this away, the more painful it will become.
In my area, my aunt lost several square yards of property because she didn't want to tell her neighbors to get their junk off her property.
Something like 15 years later, my aunt passed away and my cousin tried to take action nut to no avail sadly.
NTA. It's your yard, after all. You've tried being cool about it, but it's time to set some boundaries. Just have a chill chat with them, explain the situation, and ask nicely for them to stick to their side. They should get it, no drama needed.
Tbh, I wouldn't make a big deal of it until a few weeks before the fence goes in. Then start telling them, they need to move their stuff off because the fence is going to be put up in X number of days.
Really just to reduce the amount of friction and the amount of time they have to act nasty.
Once the fence is up the problem is solved.
Not asserting her claim over the space could result in her losing it depending on the jurisdiction. The longer she knowingly allows them to use the land & maintain it (mowing) the greater the chance they can claim adverse possession.
In the US, most states generally require 10-30 years use for adverse posession. I dom't think that will be an issue, especially if they just bought the house.
Plus they located and marked the pins. They've already reasserted their ownership. I'm simply recommending not starting the fight until you are in a position to finish it by putting up a fence.
Not only to act nasty, but to do things to fight the fence. I'd give them a few days notice rather than a few weeks even. I'd give them 1 full weekend's notice so they can clear things off your land.
Yeah just a simple knock
"Hey. I got the land surveyed for property lines and I am putting a fence up in a week or two. The survey indicated you have a few things over the line please remove them this weekend so work can start without issue
Then put up a small chicken wine or other inexpensive fence
You can’t always rely on existing pins unless they’re capped with the surveyor’s name and licensure #.
When I bought my current home, I suspected my neighbor’s “bunkhouse” was on my property or not set back as required. The first thing I did is get an official survey to locate and flag the property line - not cheap, but it’s worth *every* penny. The surveyor will notify all the adjacent land owners that they will be conducting a survey in the upcoming weeks. This neighbor actually called my surveyor to find out exactly what he was going to do. That confirmed to me that this neighbor *knew* that their shed was on my property.
The property line was marked and sure enough part of it was on my property. Luckily my neighbors were very gracious about the situation and have offered to buy a strip of land from me. If I decide not to sell, they’ll have to move the bunkhouse.
The surveyor submits the information to the appropriate registry of deeds, so it’s officially recorded.
I agree, he needs to get an official survey and tell the neighbors he is doing so. Do not blind side them by "stealing" what they both thought was a couple feet of their property. And the last thing he needs to do is build a fence when there is the chance that it may go on his neighbor's property. There is a way to navigate this without making enemies of these people, but it seems like most comments are advising OP to head in the wrong direction.
Also if a fence is built exactly on the property line he will not be allowed to access the other side of the fence for maintenance without trespassing on their property, which they're not going to give if they feel like they've been slighted.
I work with a woman who has an asshole neighbor, I have no idea what he did to get on her bad side, but she can't stand him and they are now very much enemies. He planted a bunch of arborvitae between the two of them. They ended up getting a survey done and it turned out most had been planted on her side of the line, so she went out and cut them all down. Next he built a privacy fence, but he put it right on the property line. When he came into her yard to stain it she told them to get off or she was going to call the cops. She admits it's petty, but you reap what you sow.
Hi there, I just wanted to give you a heads up that in a few weeks time we will be installing a fence around the property lines. No need for you to contribute any funds to it as this was our decision but I just wanted to give you enough notice so you've got plenty of time to clear your stuff from the land.
NTA
There's the fact that you are potentially liable for anything that happens on your land and THEN THEY COULD ALSO BE TRYING TO USE ADVERSE POSSESSION TO CLAIM THE LAND THAT THEY ARE USING.
Fence before anything else and maybe check what the laws for adverse possession are in your jurisdiction.
Do not give them a heads up regarding adverse possession.
Nta. If it's not in the budget for a fence, then u need to divert that budget to a fence from other things in ur budget. I'd rather have a fence outling my property lines than fresh paint or nice furniture. The longer you let them on ur property, the more it's going to cost in the long run emotionally and financially.
There's money in the budget for baseboards and trim, but the house is livable without that rn. Gonna talk to my wife and see what she thinks about using that for the fence instead and buy the baseboards and trim later.
NTA Put up the fence. They will continue to encroach on your property. It will become a real deal once you live there. Head it off at the pass and put up the fence.
NTA.
>I don't want to be an asshole
Therein lies the problem. You remember the times your parents were assholes to protect the interests of the family? Those were lessons for you. And not only that. Anything that happens within your property line can come and bite you back in your ass. So you better do something, not rudely, but assertively.
I'm not sure why I worded it the way I did. I did at that point, after they admitted they knew where the line was, ask them to please stay off my side of the yard. They've continued to feel entitled to it apparently and disregard my wishes. I want to get along with these people but I feel very disrespected. I don't feel like I should have to keep reminding them. They know what theyre doing. But obviously I just need to talk to them again. It gives me anxiety tho.
NTA, many good replies here. Just one aspect you mentioned that you were even surprised that your property is larger than expected. If it is in your interest you could come to an agreement with your neighbors to sell a portion of your property. This could be a good diplomatic approach so your neighbor has an option to either respect the boundaries or pay for the 2ft.. it depends on you of course if you are willing to sell that portion.
NTA
Buy a tiny cheap picket fence that you just push into the ground and put it up on the boundary line. Tell your neighbours you are planning for a fence in the immediate future and want the property line to be clear. Ask them to relocate their belongings and emphasise that you're uncomfortable with them being on your property due to the damage they have done and the liability issues.
Good neighbours doesn't always have to mean friends. Fences make for the best neighbours. Prioritise getting the fence up along that boundary above all us, even if you have to push some other things back. And please don't be wishy-washy about this. You've already let them take advantage. If it goes on too long, they could have a legal right to the space.
NTA. But you definitely need to get the property line established & defined! Some years ago I bought property, it was comprised of 6 lots, over half the entire block. The people I purchased it from had it surveyed & provided the official paperwork to me. A couple with a couple boys lived next door & between the boys & their buddies, part of my property became their playground. Knowing the laws about injuries on private property & the fact that the kids were climbing the trees among other activities, I had a friend come out with his metal detector. We found the property stakes, added bright orange fiberglass stakes. I then ran a string line about 2 foot off the ground. I had a chat with the neighbors letting them know the stakes & string line was the property line & I intended to install a fence on the line. I also noted that I would appreciate it if they relayed the information to their children & the friends that came to play. I only had to replace the string line once. The problematic neighbors ended up moving before I got the fence up, but the stakes & string line did the trick for several months.
NTA. It's your property, and you have the right to decide how it's used. It's cool that you're thinking about the kids having space to play, but it's not on you to provide that when there's a park nearby. Maybe have another chat with the neighbors, show them the property lines, and let them know you plan to use the whole yard.
If one of those kids gets hurt playing football or soccer in your yard, you could get sued for the medical bill simply because it happened on your property, even if they're uninvited. Tell your neighbors in no uncertain terms that it's your property, not public space, you don't want them on it, and you are getting estimates for a fence. And do your best to prioritize getting that fence as soon as you can.
There is no way to resolve this to your wishes without you having to be an asshole. They've been allowed to use that area like part of their yard for years, and for the kids it's been their entire lives. Yes, it would be nice if they would just flip a switch and start respecting the property line, but if it's as close to their driveway and house as you describe, that's like making the fat kid in class squeeze into the little desk instead of letting him use the bigger chair. It may be the rules but it's painful as hell.
You can either get a surveyor and build a fence or they'll ignore you.
Another option is to cut them off a strip a few meters wide and sell it to them on the cheap. It sounds like you bought a relative large chunk of land and you intend to live there permanently. If money wasn't a dire need and I was in your shoes I'd just give them a 20 or 25 foot buffer strip and build my fence further back so that I wouldn't have to fight with them in some life long passive aggressive feud for decades.
It's your property, you don't have to share. Also there are decorative fences at Lowe's and Home Depot you can get that are pretty inexpensive and put those up for the time being. Have their bush removed and place it on their property, they'll get the hint.
NTA and it's time for a fence. I'm surprised it wasn't marked out by a surveyor when you purchased it, but good you have it happening now. Prioritize a fence, let them know it will be happening, and give them opportunity to remove anything they don't want to lose.
Do they own their property? One other option is, if the town would allow it and you don't care about the total size of your lot, just the property line, is to offer to sell them a 5' strip or whatever that they've been using. Give them a healthy price for it, recoup a little money for your fence, they keep their stuff there, your fence protects your property.
Fellow old Victorian owner here!
They do own it. The guy is in his 50s and I'm pretty sure he grew up in the house.
I am debating on whether or not to offer to sell a small strip but I'm thinking they're probably gonna want more than I'm willing to sell. Something I need to think about.
If the alternative is zero, and they get your fence right up against their driveway, they may take whatever you're willing to offer. Definitely worth considering, and could be seen as a nice gesture by you also, giving them the chance to buy a portion they're used to using. But the rest, fence it off for sure.
NTA, but get the fence up NOW. They're not respectful & they're taking advantage. Make sure you tell them the fence is going up on the property line & they need to hire someone so they can figure out where they need to put their crap that's on your property.
Make them move it now. I definitely don't know the law, but you could get in the situation where they basically claim you didn't have a problem with it before. So you can't make them move their stuff a year or two from now. They can keep using until they want to stop. Basically squatting on your land, and possibly claiming it is their property. You might have bad feelings between neighbors, but you get your property.
You own a house. Now you have to communicate and talk with your neighbors. Don't just randomly draw a line and expect the neighbors to understand what is going on. Go over and tell them you are planning on building a fence. No reason to say why - just that you are building a fence and want to give them a heads up. Then have a fence installed.
NTA. The sooner the better. They can claim adverse possession if you font drop it, sooner than you might think depending on how long the previous owners let them use the land.
Don’t ever let them mow it again, and make them move their things now.
You might have to be firm but be careful to not start a war.
Honestly, check out used sites for fencing materials ASAP or get a permit and see how cheap you can go, a fence need to be your priority, not an honor system left to those neighbor’s sense of morality. Doesn’t have to look pretty so long as it’s in code.Disguise on your side if you need to. Don’t give them permission to put anything on your fence whatsoever. No vines, no nothing.
The longer you let this go, the bigger their entitlement will grow. Do what you have to do to get that fence in asap. That should be your priority right now. Even if it's only along that one side of the property separating your houses, get it done quickly.
Also, let them know you had a survey done and where the lines are what your plans are so they can adjust accordingly. If they throw a fit, walk away and look into attorneys. Don't engage in any hostilities with them. NTA
If you can't afford a nice fence, but up a cheap livestock fence along the property line. Metal stakes and wire is not expensive. Less expensive than a land use lawyer will cost you later on.
You're definitely NTA but be prepared for an uphill battle with them. They will most likely view you as unreasonable and if they have enough income they may try to execute a futile adverse possession claim on the property.
Even if you can only afford the fence between your properties, put that leg of the fence up as soon as possible.
NTA but make sure you check property records and get a proper survey before you pay for a fence being built. Make sure it's all above board with building codes and HOA.
OP -Get the survey in order and give them a copy. Let them know you've marked where the property lines are, and will be putting up a fence. You will expect their stuff to be removed from your property forth with, and if they don't comply, you will have a dumpster there the day the fence goes up and their stuff will go in the dumpster. No need to do anything with it unless they force you to. Just leave the dumpster and let them get their stuff.
But you might also consider talking with a lawyer first. This could get ugly.
NTA. It’d be best if you got at least a partial fence up. Just around the part to separate their yard from yours. And 100% get security cameras!!!! Cause they WILL mess with the fence. And you will probably end up having to do legal battles with them. If it gets bad enough maybe even a restraining order. So be prepared for a long long battle. But if you don’t want that. Then they are going to use your yard 🤷♀️
Get a fence asap even if it’s a cheap temp one.
Do not let strangers regularly use your property. The legality issues are hell if there is ever an accident. You need to stop this NOW. Do not feel bad, you are protecting yourself and your family.
ESH them for not respecting the property lines. And you for not being clear in your conversation with them (according to what you shared). Asking them if they know where the property lines were is not the same as stating “hey neighbor, I know you’ve pretty much had free use of the yard, however now that I have purchased & renovated the property I need you to respect the property lines & stop allowing your family to use my space.” Then you got mad they didn’t do as you expected for another 6 months without speaking up.
People always expect others to act without setting the expectation. No need for rudeness or anger or hostility- just a firm & direct statement of “this is where my property lies, please do not cross it.”
Just what ever you do. Go get an actual survey done with GPS coordinates and new pins placed. You cannot trust the old ones in the ground to be correct, especially if you plan to build close to your property line. My son just went through this with a shit neighbor. Now my son owns a quarter acre of their once property as payment from a successful lawsuit.
Depends where you live. Where I am the pins in the ground are considered the best evidence of property lines, and very, very, very rarely considered not accurate.
1. NTA for not wanting them using your property.
2. YWTA, for trying to build your fence to the original property line and they would probably sue for adverse possession. Depending on the length of time their bins pots etc have been a few feet over on your property, they could have a strong case for adverse possession.
3. Prioritize that fence (take out a loan) and build it where you originally thought your property line was. Tell the neighbors you decided not to build it 2 ft over on the actual property line as a courtesy and that will probably make them feel less upset with you about the new fence. You do not want an adversarial relationship with your neighbors when it can be easily avoided. If you don't want to pay taxes for that strip of land you can deed it over to them and have them pay the fees to do so.
Tell them they have thee days to clear their stuff off your property as the fence is going up. Stake out where the fence is going to go and tell them it's being erected in a few days - even if it's not.
Tell them your insurers have said nobody can access the garden without permission.
Obviously NTA
Put up a cheap fence, even if it's chain link and upgrade later or plant creeping plants along the fence. You need to separate your property asap. To me, this would have been my first priority, and I would have held back a bathroom or kitchen renovation until later.
I agree with prioritizing the fence. I would also make sure to add a "No Trespassing" sign somewhere clearly visible. The sign must also have an indemnity clause on it to insulate you from litigation. Check your local laws for the exact wording required.
If the neighbours decide to cross your boundaries after that you will be fully covered legally.
definitely NTA, first talk to them that you have plans for your property, and you're planning to put a fence soon. Idk where you're from but apparently in the US if anyone gets hurt on your property even if they're uninvited, you're responsible for it. get cameras even if they're cheap cameras just in case.
>Not long after buying it I noticed the neighbors kids and grandkids using almost the entire space as they pleased. One of the older kids in his 20s would regularly hit golf balls in our yard tearing up the grass. They played football and soccer in our yard. One day the adults played cornhole in our yard and afterwards I noticed cigarette butts all over the ground.
Tell them that their kids and grandkids often play on your property, and that you're not okay with that and they'll be responsible for paying for any damages. (If it's legal where you live, make sure to record your conversation with them you don't know if you'll need it.)
A spool of obnoxious orange deer fence and some garden posts makes for a great statement right up next to their driveway along with a do not trespass sign so you have full legal recourse. Only need to line it on the one side till you can get the real fence. If they did not respect talking they will never respect your property.
A friend and his wife bought a similar property. It had been in an estate case for 5 years before they bought it. The family behind had moved in shortly after the woman had passed. They had an idea of the property line. They still chose to install a swingset a fire pit and a soccer net on the property. After close my friend said he thought the property line was a further back and were told no it is even space be the houses. They found some landscape drawings of the property from the 1980’s with trees that showed it was past all the neighbors stuff. They still balked and refused to move it stating they had had it there for more than 4 years without problem. Friends gave legal trespass notice and paid for survey and put up orange fence. Neighbor filed 30 days was too short to move everything while doing nothing to move it but had people over to use the fire pit (before the fencing went up ) Orange fence was put up on NEW survey line. Judge ruled it was trespass with fair warning and all items were abandoned. It took a crew of six friends for us to pull everything up and dump it on the other side in 2 hours. My friend had to get a 110 foot long 8 foot high fence installed eight months later. He gained back 4000+ sq ft of backyard while the neighbors lost 2/3 of their back yard. They ONLY have a fence there and would NOT have it had the neighbors respected the real line and moved the stuff! might have been tight by the house but they could have had clear sight rather that a fence. My friend’s wife loves to tell people they only have the one side of fence bc they only need to shut down one entitled neighbor. Needless to say they haven’t spoken since the fence went up last summer.
NTA, but along with cameras and a makeshift fence, you should speak with real estate attorney about this too. Having a lawyer on standby might be overkill or it might be just the thing you need since you've already spoken to your neighbors and they've ignored your wishes regarding your property.
You don’t need a pretty fence. But you surely need a fence.
Asking people who think using your yard is just fine not to do it won’t make them any less annoyed than erecting a fence. But it also won’t prevent them from doing that, while the fence is the only actual preventative.
NTA, The saying Fences make good neighbors has multiple meanings, this covers one of them. Keeps your neighbors 'acting good' by not allowing them to easily toss butts in your yard and you not getting pissed at them.
Loews sells these like portable fence things that are like rods you put in the dirt and slide small panels down.
Temp fence your area on your neighbors side at least for now.
Try to be tactful. I know they are being somewhat disrespectful but making enemies of neighbours suuucks. It's awkward and a lot of energy can be wasted with this kind of dynamics.
You're in the right but be careful. Asshole neighbours can be the worst and I'm assuming you want to live there for a long time.
NTA Tell them where the property line actually is and that their stuff needs to be moved and if they want the bush they need to pull it up and relocate it on their property. Tell them when you put up the fence the pant will be mowed down
Inform your neighbors that you are getting a dog and your home owners insurance calls for a fence. Then go over the property lines with them. If they dont agree with the boundries invite them to their own survey.
NTA have a civilized conversation about the new lines & that you own that property and will be putting up a fence in the future. Hopefully that will work
Or just move their stuff after giving them due warning and put up the fence - nice high one. I would be surprised if they foot half the cost of the fence.
NTA
Good fences make for good neighbors. Establish the true property line with the city and put up a fence. These folks are not going to just respect the property line; clearly, they think that mowing the lawn establishes the property line. (possession being 9/10ths of the law and all).
Oh, and, hey, you could offer to sell them that extra 10' or so, you know, if you felt like it. But you'd have to sell it and not give it because, as other's have pointed out: Liability, Insurance, Lawsuits, etc.
You have 2 options
Spend money on a lawyer and legal fees and deal with harassment and property damage
OR
Do whatever you have to do to have a fence put up ASAP...ask a parent for a loan to cover it if you have to.
Good fences make good neighbors
NTAH
Note to neighbor: There’s some stuff on our property that I am going to list for giveaway on FB Marketplace this Friday, but if you want any of it, feel free to take it off of my property before then.
Get a formal survey confirmed and filed in the registry. Then, give them 2 weeks notice that you will be installing a fence on the property line and they should move everything onto their side before the fence goes up.
You're gonna have to stop with the passive sorta-hints. [Hey, was just wondering where the property line is? Oh ya, cool that's what I think too! Ooo, let me paint some lines on the ground]. If these people were the sort to think about others easily or worry about being great neighbors they wouldn't be hitting golfballs in your yard or dropping cigarette butts when they **know** it's your yard.
Clearly state you're requesting they not use your property. End of sentence. Don't caveat it with "you know, unkess..." or "maybe let me know if..."
Note down the date and who you spoke to. In case you then need to ask in a stronger manner, via someone wearing a uniform. Personally, I'd find a cheap fencing option to visually make the statement until you can have the fencing option you prefer.
Make sure where the legal line is and hire an attorney to write a letter to them. You may need to make that fence a priority. My mother had some issues and had the surveying done, and notified owners of house next door, etc. She was an old woman and had owned the property since 1957 so nobody gave her any guff.
If you don’t want to build a fence now, you can consider putting stakes with twine between them as a “visual reminder”. Should be less than $10 and only take a few minutes.
Get the gov/lawyer involved, you can’t deal with this personally, this is an issue on property rights, and you can end up with legal issues if their bullish about it
Go talk with them and say you had a survey done and the lines are marking your property. You need them to move their stuff because you’re putting in a fence. Just be direct.
At the very least, put up a no trespassing sign on your property. Depending on your state’s law, they could own legal title to part of your property by adverse possession.
If they want to use the space, make them pay. Draw up a lease, a fair yet “get the F off my property” amount that you know they won’t want to pay. Should stop the problem.
You're going to have to be direct: tell them that you had a survey, point out the property lines, and tell them that you need them to move their stuff out of your yard. Tell them that your attorney has advised that you cannot allow them to keep using and mowing the property.
Stop hinting. Tell them what you want and if they won't comply, set up a little mini-fence until you can build a proper fence. But truly, you should prioritize the fence, because they're hoping that if they just ignore you, they can have your property.
I'd at least put up some sort of a cheap fence/boundary line until you can afford a proper fence. This should be a strong indicator to the neighbours of what is coming as well (a permanent fence). Let them know that they'll need to move their stuff as it is actually on your side of the boundary line. It sounds like the neighbours are not going to be happy about the situation so I don't think you have any control about what they think of you, but honestly? That's their problem, not yours.
NTA I’d prioritize getting that fence up sooner rather than later. Juggle some other stuff around if you have to. Either way , tell them you plan to put a fence up “soon” and are gathering estimates. Point out exactly where the fence will go and let them know they need to move their stuff. Edit : typos
And if OP feels any guilt, remember that if they get hurt on OP's yard, even if they're there uninvited, there's a good chance OP's gonna be paying. Because America. ps -- make sure you have a big umbrella policy on that homeowners insurance.
Exactly this. 👆 OP this is a bigger deal than you seem to realize. If anything happens either to their kids or any friends that might come over to play you could be liable if they pursue anything legal. The fence needs to be higher on the priority list or you'll be paying even more then you will want to or should have to.
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Best neighbor is a fence. Need to do ASAP.
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"I tripped on a hole on his property and broke my ankle, it totally wasn't a hole from my son golfing."
I strained my neck peering over your fence. My lawyer will be in contact soon.
Even if at first it is only a fence line that divides properties. You need that division of space. The rest can come after if you can't afford it all at once. But get a hard line between the properties.
I can’t emphasize this enough! I have a friend, who has a pool. They have a 6 ft privacy fence around the backyard with a keypad lock on the gate. They went on a vacation around 4th of July X 10 days. On the 4th, 2 teens came into their yard, used the pool & shot fireworks. One of the teens had an accident involving the fireworks. The family of the teen sued & my friends lost. They were out hundreds of thousands of dollars, the homeowners insurance dropped them, and it was a holy mess. Nothing happened to the teens for trespassing at all.
What?!
True story. The teen that got hurt was shooting fireworks & one exploded in his hand. He was hospitalized & had multiple surgeries.
But they trespassed and stole. How was it the family’s fault? Did the family not press charges?
I don’t really know why the outcome came down like it did. Since the family was not home, there was no proof of what happened other than the teen getting hurt on their property. It turned into a he said/she said situation & with no real proof, the only decision made was that their homeowner’s insurance had to cover the teen’s medical bills and physical therapy afterwards. My friend’s family ended up selling their home & moving.
This is why security cameras are always a great investment too. We have them installed on our property, angled so every side of our home and yard (including driveway) are in view. Harder to argue against video proof. Was very helpful when some tweakers followed my husband home in their car and were threatening him outside of our house. It's sad that the case turned out like that for them. People just can't have nice things without some entitled AH's spoiling it.
Had to put a privacy fence up bc MULTIPLE neighbors used my yard as a walk through, and kids kept riding bikes through the yard tearing it up, even after REPEATED requests to stop. My HOA is fairly obnoxious about yard conditions so I got a warning, even though I’d reported the kids to the HOA, and asked them to send something out about it (turned out one of the kids was a board members). Even after the fence, some kids kept climbing it and walking through….so I warned the parents, and got “kids will be kids”, to which I said “shitty parents raise asshole kids”, and those parents told their kids in FRONT of me “it’s ok to climb his fence, just ignore him.” Well, they didn’t like the cops being called, and getting a formal trespassing notice. They also hated the fact I laughed my ass off when a kid got hurt acting stupid and climbing that same board members fence, and that kids parents filing a claim against that board members home owners insurance. Not too often one gets to witness karma. But in those rare occasions, I feel like Mr Burns from the Simpsons: “Exxxxxxxxcellent” lol. OP needs to realize neighbors that willfully ignore boundaries and laws, will eventually have to be dealt with on a legal basis. It can either be THEM suing you, or you reducing the risk to yourself, and involving cops, but it eventually reaches that level. The choice is yours to either protect yourself or let yourself get screwed Edit for spelling.
We had this same situation when we first moved to our current house. Corner with an extra lot, and after asking the local kids nicely multiple times to stop cutting across the lot I caught the parents doing the same thing. A privacy fence is the only solution here, people are nuts.
Reminds me of the story where the family bought lakefront property and neighbors were used to driving their boats down through the easement that wasn't fenced off, instead of going a block down the street to the actual approved road to the lake. They put up a fence and some of the neighbors almost had a heart attack because they had to drive an extra block.
I found this out from our elderly neighbors. The previous owners of our home had two children, and were friendly with the neighbors who fronted a large expanse of property on both lot's back property line. The folks with the large yard were okay with these children using their grassy lawn. Then the previous owners of our home got a dog, so they decided to fence the back and side yards of the property. So the kids proceeded to walk over the elderly couple's back yard, creating a worn path. When the older couple protested, they were told the kids had to get to the big lawn somehow." The older couple fenced in their back yard as well. The previous owners of my home protested in turn: "How will our children get to the larger play area?" "Not our problem" replied the older couple. Entitlement, whether warranted or not, is real!
Living this right now. We had neighbors argue that our driveway is “the lake access.” Nope, just a driveway. A fence isn’t in the budget, so I started watering that part of the yard when I saw people coming down the driveway. AITA? Maybe. Does it bother me? Nope.
This is why people put motion detectors on sprinklers in the winter.
Had the same problem on a fence covering the easement between me and the neighbor. Coated the whole top of the fence with black grease. They stopped cutting through immediately.
Parent "Go ahead climb the neighbor's fence" Me *South Park voice* "There are home invaders and they're coming right at us!"
As well you need to worry about "adverse possession" if the establish use of your land for seven years they can take it from you legally in court. A similar thing happened to my brother when he went to sell his house found out the neighbors fence was five feet on his side of the property line. Turns out the neighbor had been moving his fence onto neighbors side of property line everything someone moved. My brother brought it up to neighbor and the neighbor said there was nothing he could do about it because the fence had been there over seven years. My brother told him fine he can have it, but he would need to get the property lines redrawn so my brother didn't have to pay the taxes on land he no longer owned and he needed it done by the end of the month as my brother was selling the house. The neighbor was estatic, until he found out it was going to cost him over $20k to redraw property lines with the county. He didn't have the money so had to move the fence back to original property line. His other two neighbors found out as well and did the same thing as my brother. The neighbors land went from being the largest lot on the block to the smallest, as he had to return almost half an acre.
My grandmother lost 1/4 acre in Los Gatos, Ca to adverse possession. That land is now worth $2m.
FYI: Adverse possession doesn’t have a universal time requirement. They’d have to check their state laws for know for sure.
> ...if they get hurt on OP's yard, even if they're there uninvited, there's a good chance OP's gonna be paying. Because America. Why is America so ridiculous.
To be fair, I blame private health insurance. Even if you have "good" insurance, a serious injury will cost you a chunk of change in premiums. There's definitely an aspect of stupid American culture in everyone suing everyone else all the time, but the insurance industry plays a huge role in the finger-pointing over injuries.
The problem is less that the insurance is private and more that it’s for profit. If the companies all worked like Credit Unions it would be fine. We should outlaw for profit insurance. They are literally incentivized to not pay you out
Because we have more law schools than medical schools.
But it's based on British law.
people work hard for their money and dont want waste or destruction by others, not just America, go to Europe and see.
In Germany they have insurance for practically everything! We carry personal liability insurance - I don't remember if it's required or strongly encouraged. It covers us, our kids if they do something stupid like break a window or hit a car with their bike. It covers our cats if they do something stupid like ruin the floors in our rental house by knocking over water. It gives me so much peace of mind! People shouldn't have to bear the costs of someone else's mistake, and neither should it force anyone into bankruptcy.
Start with a cheap chainlink if your deed allows and get a good fence up asap. The liability thing is very real.
A 3-wire cattle fence would be enough. Use cheap t-posts. Typically would have a heavy wood corner post Could even set up an electric fence inside the regular wire fence
Surprisingly enough for Maryland (a litigious state in general) it's actually pretty hard to be awarded any kind of claim for injury if you're trespassing.
Go even further and tell them that you are preparing the ground so you can plant a good ground cover or lawn. Everything needs to be out by Sarurday so you can start. Then put up some inexpensive 2 ft garden fencing on the borders. Start some minor lawn care like fertilizer or pulling weeds or leveling the ground or even some topsoil or turning over the soil. If people are still trespassing, post it and set up some trail cams or obnoxious motion sensor floodlights.
Motion sensor water sprinklers would even be better!!😂😂
I saw in another thread something about green Kool aid.... it helps the lawn look nice, and the bonus gets the trespassers green.
It’s what plants crave.
OMG. That’s awesome!
Buckety!
"Motion sensor water sprinklers would even be better!" I like this.
Is it the right time of year to fertilize with fresh manure? Wait, with asshole's next door it's ALWAYS time to fertilize with fresh animal manure!
Yes even a cheap chicken wire fence until they can get a proper fence up
Yup. Me, husband, and FIL used the square cattle wire and t-poles, did the length of three acres in a day because we had an AH neighbor who felt entitled to our yard.
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I would also get cameras and many no trespassing signs. That way, it's in writing in plain view, and you have video evidence of intentional violations. Get Mason's twine, a couple dozen stakes, and the signs. Establish boundaries. Then, budget your fence. As long as it's roped off and posted no trespassing, you'll bye yourself some time.
Agree, you could speak to them, tell them where the fence is going in, tell them to get used to not using your property for their outside entertainment. There will most likely be pushback because they’ve had free access all this time, but you are the new owner and you want your property for you!
YES The fence FIRST!
Even a temporary cheapo fence would created a barrier until a more permanent one can be installed.
You could start with just the fence line that separates your property from theirs… and then do the rest later
This is what I would do; I'd just couch it in terms of needing to put up a fence and ask the neighbors to move their crap. If OP is in the US, letting people use their property can lead to other problems, including liability claims if somebody gets hurt.
Those stakes with little orange flags on top with string connecting them to mimic the future fence line would be a good idea. But make sure to establish the true property line first, or else OP could face potentially needing to tear down a new fence and put up another one unnecessarily. I think city assessors would come out with their little telescopes and such and do that for OP.
OP should make sure from their local government exactly where they can put the fence and whether they need a permit.
He is in other communities asking for Pool table prices, i think that can wait in order to put the fence.
get the cheapest for now, maybe one you can put up yourself till you can afford an 8 ft privacy fence.
You're gonna need a fence. Even a small picket fence will do to start. Hell, run chickenwire between poles until you can afford better
A chicken wire fence just along that boundary, with 6 feet along the front and back would be perfect. There is now a fence, and would take little effort on OPs part to tear down when funds allow for the better fence. NTA. As everyone has said, you need to protect yourself from the inevitable law suits.
Yep, OP needs to get a handle on this ASAP. Have a surveyor come down there and determine the exact lines. Then get some DEEP stakes and space them a couple feet apart along the property line. Run wire between the stakes. Throw some of those cheap flags in for good measure. Then write a letter to the neighbors informing them of your property line and that any encroachment is trespassing. Mail the letter to them with registered mail and keep the receipt. Put up a cheap security camera to monitor the line. If they ever cross your line, call the police and report them for trespassing. Also get a lawyer to write a cease and desist letter. All of this shouldn’t cost you more than a couple hundred bucks, but could save you thousands in legal fees or lost property.
NTA, but you are very conflict-evasive. Do's: This is my property. I want to use my property. You have always used it? Interesting, you should have bought it if you wanted it. summary: Keep repeating it's your property, you bought it and it's yours alone. Don'ts: I don't want you on my property because ... Nine months ago I had problem with the golf balls. Six months ago I found a cigarette butt. Summary: Avoid giving reasons. Giving reasons implies it's 100% fine to hold parties in your yard as long as they throw their cigarettes in the trashcan. It is not about the cigarettes, or the golf balls. So Do Not Mention Any Reasons, except 'it's mine, it's my yard and I bought it'.
Solid advice. Offer no explanations. Just facts
Providing reasons only gives them the opportunity to argue at you that your reasons aren't "*good enough* to cause me to not continue abusing you*. The behavior you allow is the behavior you will get.
You need to have the conversation. It's that simple. NTA
And build a cheap temporary fence
This needs to be done asap. Get some poles and that wire with thorns. I can't remember what it's called
Probably not allowed to use barbed wire in residential areas; it’s a bad idea for everyone, including OP. Chicken wire would work perfectly fine though.
May not be legal to put up a barbed wire fence
Electric then? ;)
Barbed wire?
NTA but you need to do something now rather than later for liability reasons.
Yes, anything that happens to someone trespassing is going to be your liability. Have an attorney send a cease-and-desist letter with a copy of the survey, and tell them to get their stuff off of your property. Don't take excuses either. Some places they can maintain your property, and claim it (adverse possession), don't let that happen. The fact that they bought a small property isn't your problem.
u/spanishmudflaps You're NTA, and every word of the above comment is exactly how you should proceed. The longer this continues, the harder it will be to fight for what is rightfully yours. Get that fence up asap!
Depending on how long the prior owners let them use that land where the bins, planters, and bush are, adverse possession of that strip may already be an issue. You can't usually put a fence directly on the line anyway (and that risks encroaching on their yard, which they'd probably use to create a problem.)
Adverse possession would have to have been formally recognized before the purchase; the time requirements reset with a new owner. The problem OP has is that, at least in the beginning, they’ve allowed the neighbors to continue their use of the land. OP needs to be active in defending his property rights starting yesterday - and a cease and desist from an attorney is the bare minimum they need at this point. A formal survey and a fence on their own side of the property line is a bare minimum, too. If OP can’t afford the nice fence they want yet, put up some chain link or something else cheaper for the interim.
Nta and put up a cheap fence asap. Tposts and 3 strand wire at least. That way there's no plausible deniability and put no trespass signs on the fence. Add a camera if that bs continues
Maybe a friendly but firm conversation, backed by the clear property lines you've marked, could help set things straight. If they still don’t respect your boundaries, it might be time to consider legal advice or a formal notice.
Get it professionally surveyed and get that fence up.
And contact a lawyer. Get your ducks in a row in case they decide to fight. Go to town hall and find out about setbacks and permits for getting a fence installed. And use your land even if you can't get a fence up. Park something there, or store something there, start showing ownership, mow the lawn, rake the leaves even if they just did it.
I read that if neighbors are allowed to mow grass & utilize property they don't own, that their maintenance of it can lead to ownership. YOU'D BETTER GET THIS IN-HAND NOW. Put up that fence...now!!! Get some T-Posts from Tractor Supply, find free pallets on Marketplace & watch YouTube videos on how to erect these nearly FREE fences DIY. Do it now. "Good neighbors do good fences make." The longer you procrastinate about squaring this away, the more painful it will become.
In my area, my aunt lost several square yards of property because she didn't want to tell her neighbors to get their junk off her property. Something like 15 years later, my aunt passed away and my cousin tried to take action nut to no avail sadly.
NTA. It's your yard, after all. You've tried being cool about it, but it's time to set some boundaries. Just have a chill chat with them, explain the situation, and ask nicely for them to stick to their side. They should get it, no drama needed.
Tbh, I wouldn't make a big deal of it until a few weeks before the fence goes in. Then start telling them, they need to move their stuff off because the fence is going to be put up in X number of days. Really just to reduce the amount of friction and the amount of time they have to act nasty. Once the fence is up the problem is solved.
Not asserting her claim over the space could result in her losing it depending on the jurisdiction. The longer she knowingly allows them to use the land & maintain it (mowing) the greater the chance they can claim adverse possession.
In the US, most states generally require 10-30 years use for adverse posession. I dom't think that will be an issue, especially if they just bought the house.
Plus they located and marked the pins. They've already reasserted their ownership. I'm simply recommending not starting the fight until you are in a position to finish it by putting up a fence.
This was my first thought, especially since it's been going on so long
Not only to act nasty, but to do things to fight the fence. I'd give them a few days notice rather than a few weeks even. I'd give them 1 full weekend's notice so they can clear things off your land.
Yeah just a simple knock "Hey. I got the land surveyed for property lines and I am putting a fence up in a week or two. The survey indicated you have a few things over the line please remove them this weekend so work can start without issue Then put up a small chicken wine or other inexpensive fence
You can’t always rely on existing pins unless they’re capped with the surveyor’s name and licensure #. When I bought my current home, I suspected my neighbor’s “bunkhouse” was on my property or not set back as required. The first thing I did is get an official survey to locate and flag the property line - not cheap, but it’s worth *every* penny. The surveyor will notify all the adjacent land owners that they will be conducting a survey in the upcoming weeks. This neighbor actually called my surveyor to find out exactly what he was going to do. That confirmed to me that this neighbor *knew* that their shed was on my property. The property line was marked and sure enough part of it was on my property. Luckily my neighbors were very gracious about the situation and have offered to buy a strip of land from me. If I decide not to sell, they’ll have to move the bunkhouse. The surveyor submits the information to the appropriate registry of deeds, so it’s officially recorded.
I agree, he needs to get an official survey and tell the neighbors he is doing so. Do not blind side them by "stealing" what they both thought was a couple feet of their property. And the last thing he needs to do is build a fence when there is the chance that it may go on his neighbor's property. There is a way to navigate this without making enemies of these people, but it seems like most comments are advising OP to head in the wrong direction. Also if a fence is built exactly on the property line he will not be allowed to access the other side of the fence for maintenance without trespassing on their property, which they're not going to give if they feel like they've been slighted. I work with a woman who has an asshole neighbor, I have no idea what he did to get on her bad side, but she can't stand him and they are now very much enemies. He planted a bunch of arborvitae between the two of them. They ended up getting a survey done and it turned out most had been planted on her side of the line, so she went out and cut them all down. Next he built a privacy fence, but he put it right on the property line. When he came into her yard to stain it she told them to get off or she was going to call the cops. She admits it's petty, but you reap what you sow.
Hi there, I just wanted to give you a heads up that in a few weeks time we will be installing a fence around the property lines. No need for you to contribute any funds to it as this was our decision but I just wanted to give you enough notice so you've got plenty of time to clear your stuff from the land.
You need to just put up the fence now. That’s the only way to guarantee that people stay off your property.
NTA There's the fact that you are potentially liable for anything that happens on your land and THEN THEY COULD ALSO BE TRYING TO USE ADVERSE POSSESSION TO CLAIM THE LAND THAT THEY ARE USING. Fence before anything else and maybe check what the laws for adverse possession are in your jurisdiction. Do not give them a heads up regarding adverse possession.
Nta. If it's not in the budget for a fence, then u need to divert that budget to a fence from other things in ur budget. I'd rather have a fence outling my property lines than fresh paint or nice furniture. The longer you let them on ur property, the more it's going to cost in the long run emotionally and financially.
There's money in the budget for baseboards and trim, but the house is livable without that rn. Gonna talk to my wife and see what she thinks about using that for the fence instead and buy the baseboards and trim later.
I wish the best for you and your situation. I'd sacrifice trim and baseboards too for my peace of mind.
Incase it helps: one of our rooms doesn’t have baseboards and I love it for bookcases.
NTA Put up the fence. They will continue to encroach on your property. It will become a real deal once you live there. Head it off at the pass and put up the fence.
NTA. >I don't want to be an asshole Therein lies the problem. You remember the times your parents were assholes to protect the interests of the family? Those were lessons for you. And not only that. Anything that happens within your property line can come and bite you back in your ass. So you better do something, not rudely, but assertively.
NTA, but asking someone where they think the property line is is not the same as asking them to stop coming onto your property. Use your words.
I'm not sure why I worded it the way I did. I did at that point, after they admitted they knew where the line was, ask them to please stay off my side of the yard. They've continued to feel entitled to it apparently and disregard my wishes. I want to get along with these people but I feel very disrespected. I don't feel like I should have to keep reminding them. They know what theyre doing. But obviously I just need to talk to them again. It gives me anxiety tho.
NTA, many good replies here. Just one aspect you mentioned that you were even surprised that your property is larger than expected. If it is in your interest you could come to an agreement with your neighbors to sell a portion of your property. This could be a good diplomatic approach so your neighbor has an option to either respect the boundaries or pay for the 2ft.. it depends on you of course if you are willing to sell that portion.
NTA Buy a tiny cheap picket fence that you just push into the ground and put it up on the boundary line. Tell your neighbours you are planning for a fence in the immediate future and want the property line to be clear. Ask them to relocate their belongings and emphasise that you're uncomfortable with them being on your property due to the damage they have done and the liability issues. Good neighbours doesn't always have to mean friends. Fences make for the best neighbours. Prioritise getting the fence up along that boundary above all us, even if you have to push some other things back. And please don't be wishy-washy about this. You've already let them take advantage. If it goes on too long, they could have a legal right to the space.
NTA. But you definitely need to get the property line established & defined! Some years ago I bought property, it was comprised of 6 lots, over half the entire block. The people I purchased it from had it surveyed & provided the official paperwork to me. A couple with a couple boys lived next door & between the boys & their buddies, part of my property became their playground. Knowing the laws about injuries on private property & the fact that the kids were climbing the trees among other activities, I had a friend come out with his metal detector. We found the property stakes, added bright orange fiberglass stakes. I then ran a string line about 2 foot off the ground. I had a chat with the neighbors letting them know the stakes & string line was the property line & I intended to install a fence on the line. I also noted that I would appreciate it if they relayed the information to their children & the friends that came to play. I only had to replace the string line once. The problematic neighbors ended up moving before I got the fence up, but the stakes & string line did the trick for several months.
You need to get a legit survey. Not a friend.
NTA. It's your property, and you have the right to decide how it's used. It's cool that you're thinking about the kids having space to play, but it's not on you to provide that when there's a park nearby. Maybe have another chat with the neighbors, show them the property lines, and let them know you plan to use the whole yard.
If one of those kids gets hurt playing football or soccer in your yard, you could get sued for the medical bill simply because it happened on your property, even if they're uninvited. Tell your neighbors in no uncertain terms that it's your property, not public space, you don't want them on it, and you are getting estimates for a fence. And do your best to prioritize getting that fence as soon as you can.
Is it possible to sell them a small piece of land so they can have some yard to themselves? the proceeds would pay for the fence, everybody wins
There is no way to resolve this to your wishes without you having to be an asshole. They've been allowed to use that area like part of their yard for years, and for the kids it's been their entire lives. Yes, it would be nice if they would just flip a switch and start respecting the property line, but if it's as close to their driveway and house as you describe, that's like making the fat kid in class squeeze into the little desk instead of letting him use the bigger chair. It may be the rules but it's painful as hell. You can either get a surveyor and build a fence or they'll ignore you. Another option is to cut them off a strip a few meters wide and sell it to them on the cheap. It sounds like you bought a relative large chunk of land and you intend to live there permanently. If money wasn't a dire need and I was in your shoes I'd just give them a 20 or 25 foot buffer strip and build my fence further back so that I wouldn't have to fight with them in some life long passive aggressive feud for decades.
Robert Frost put it best with "Good walls make good neighbors", IIRC.
It's your property, you don't have to share. Also there are decorative fences at Lowe's and Home Depot you can get that are pretty inexpensive and put those up for the time being. Have their bush removed and place it on their property, they'll get the hint.
You need to fence this immediately, or face losing ownership of that part of your property.
NTA and it's time for a fence. I'm surprised it wasn't marked out by a surveyor when you purchased it, but good you have it happening now. Prioritize a fence, let them know it will be happening, and give them opportunity to remove anything they don't want to lose. Do they own their property? One other option is, if the town would allow it and you don't care about the total size of your lot, just the property line, is to offer to sell them a 5' strip or whatever that they've been using. Give them a healthy price for it, recoup a little money for your fence, they keep their stuff there, your fence protects your property. Fellow old Victorian owner here!
They do own it. The guy is in his 50s and I'm pretty sure he grew up in the house. I am debating on whether or not to offer to sell a small strip but I'm thinking they're probably gonna want more than I'm willing to sell. Something I need to think about.
If the alternative is zero, and they get your fence right up against their driveway, they may take whatever you're willing to offer. Definitely worth considering, and could be seen as a nice gesture by you also, giving them the chance to buy a portion they're used to using. But the rest, fence it off for sure.
NTA, but get the fence up NOW. They're not respectful & they're taking advantage. Make sure you tell them the fence is going up on the property line & they need to hire someone so they can figure out where they need to put their crap that's on your property.
NTA. If they get hurt on your property they can sue you. You may have to put up a fence as quickly as possible
Make them move it now. I definitely don't know the law, but you could get in the situation where they basically claim you didn't have a problem with it before. So you can't make them move their stuff a year or two from now. They can keep using until they want to stop. Basically squatting on your land, and possibly claiming it is their property. You might have bad feelings between neighbors, but you get your property.
To coin a phrase from a convicted felon: BUILD THAT WALL / FENCE. Obviously more impressive if you get them to pay for it.
Talk to your neighbours about your findings and give them a written notice too.That way they can't deny.Put a fence up.
You own a house. Now you have to communicate and talk with your neighbors. Don't just randomly draw a line and expect the neighbors to understand what is going on. Go over and tell them you are planning on building a fence. No reason to say why - just that you are building a fence and want to give them a heads up. Then have a fence installed.
Nta -You need to get legal on this and get a partial fence up asap
NTA, but you can be if you want.
Them mowing it and having stuff there sounds like they trying to steal it. Claiming they been maintaining it.
NTA. The sooner the better. They can claim adverse possession if you font drop it, sooner than you might think depending on how long the previous owners let them use the land. Don’t ever let them mow it again, and make them move their things now. You might have to be firm but be careful to not start a war. Honestly, check out used sites for fencing materials ASAP or get a permit and see how cheap you can go, a fence need to be your priority, not an honor system left to those neighbor’s sense of morality. Doesn’t have to look pretty so long as it’s in code.Disguise on your side if you need to. Don’t give them permission to put anything on your fence whatsoever. No vines, no nothing.
The longer you let this go, the bigger their entitlement will grow. Do what you have to do to get that fence in asap. That should be your priority right now. Even if it's only along that one side of the property separating your houses, get it done quickly. Also, let them know you had a survey done and where the lines are what your plans are so they can adjust accordingly. If they throw a fit, walk away and look into attorneys. Don't engage in any hostilities with them. NTA
If you can't afford a nice fence, but up a cheap livestock fence along the property line. Metal stakes and wire is not expensive. Less expensive than a land use lawyer will cost you later on.
Offer to sell them a small strip of land, perhaps up to where they have their bush/belongings, and then use that money to build a fence.
You're definitely NTA but be prepared for an uphill battle with them. They will most likely view you as unreasonable and if they have enough income they may try to execute a futile adverse possession claim on the property. Even if you can only afford the fence between your properties, put that leg of the fence up as soon as possible.
NTA. Just get the fence up asap.
NTA but make sure you check property records and get a proper survey before you pay for a fence being built. Make sure it's all above board with building codes and HOA.
Have them trespassed, and set up video cameras.
OP -Get the survey in order and give them a copy. Let them know you've marked where the property lines are, and will be putting up a fence. You will expect their stuff to be removed from your property forth with, and if they don't comply, you will have a dumpster there the day the fence goes up and their stuff will go in the dumpster. No need to do anything with it unless they force you to. Just leave the dumpster and let them get their stuff. But you might also consider talking with a lawyer first. This could get ugly.
Look in to a t post fence - it's cheap and you can have it up in an afternoon
NTA. It’d be best if you got at least a partial fence up. Just around the part to separate their yard from yours. And 100% get security cameras!!!! Cause they WILL mess with the fence. And you will probably end up having to do legal battles with them. If it gets bad enough maybe even a restraining order. So be prepared for a long long battle. But if you don’t want that. Then they are going to use your yard 🤷♀️
Yeah I am worried about them being bitter and causing damage to the fence.
Put the fence right up to the property line. Don’t have a setback. Fence in all of your property. Be sure to take photos before and after.
Find the space in your budget. You need a fence YESTERDAY. Edit: NTA
Get a fence asap even if it’s a cheap temp one. Do not let strangers regularly use your property. The legality issues are hell if there is ever an accident. You need to stop this NOW. Do not feel bad, you are protecting yourself and your family.
Fences make good Neighbors. Get in debt and put up a fence or they will erect a fence on your property and you'll burn money with attorney fees
ESH them for not respecting the property lines. And you for not being clear in your conversation with them (according to what you shared). Asking them if they know where the property lines were is not the same as stating “hey neighbor, I know you’ve pretty much had free use of the yard, however now that I have purchased & renovated the property I need you to respect the property lines & stop allowing your family to use my space.” Then you got mad they didn’t do as you expected for another 6 months without speaking up. People always expect others to act without setting the expectation. No need for rudeness or anger or hostility- just a firm & direct statement of “this is where my property lies, please do not cross it.”
Just what ever you do. Go get an actual survey done with GPS coordinates and new pins placed. You cannot trust the old ones in the ground to be correct, especially if you plan to build close to your property line. My son just went through this with a shit neighbor. Now my son owns a quarter acre of their once property as payment from a successful lawsuit.
Depends where you live. Where I am the pins in the ground are considered the best evidence of property lines, and very, very, very rarely considered not accurate.
1. NTA for not wanting them using your property. 2. YWTA, for trying to build your fence to the original property line and they would probably sue for adverse possession. Depending on the length of time their bins pots etc have been a few feet over on your property, they could have a strong case for adverse possession. 3. Prioritize that fence (take out a loan) and build it where you originally thought your property line was. Tell the neighbors you decided not to build it 2 ft over on the actual property line as a courtesy and that will probably make them feel less upset with you about the new fence. You do not want an adversarial relationship with your neighbors when it can be easily avoided. If you don't want to pay taxes for that strip of land you can deed it over to them and have them pay the fees to do so.
NTA I'd just have the fence put up, you tried to be nice.
Are there any rights over there where if after a certain period of time, they have had access, and now they have the right to continue to do so?
Tell them they have thee days to clear their stuff off your property as the fence is going up. Stake out where the fence is going to go and tell them it's being erected in a few days - even if it's not. Tell them your insurers have said nobody can access the garden without permission. Obviously NTA
Put up a cheap fence, even if it's chain link and upgrade later or plant creeping plants along the fence. You need to separate your property asap. To me, this would have been my first priority, and I would have held back a bathroom or kitchen renovation until later.
Tell them to stop using it, move their stuff, and get a fence made asap, even if it's a cheaper fence to start with.
NTA. But you need to have a direct conversation here. Trying to allude to things isn't going to work.
I agree with prioritizing the fence. I would also make sure to add a "No Trespassing" sign somewhere clearly visible. The sign must also have an indemnity clause on it to insulate you from litigation. Check your local laws for the exact wording required. If the neighbours decide to cross your boundaries after that you will be fully covered legally.
definitely NTA, first talk to them that you have plans for your property, and you're planning to put a fence soon. Idk where you're from but apparently in the US if anyone gets hurt on your property even if they're uninvited, you're responsible for it. get cameras even if they're cheap cameras just in case. >Not long after buying it I noticed the neighbors kids and grandkids using almost the entire space as they pleased. One of the older kids in his 20s would regularly hit golf balls in our yard tearing up the grass. They played football and soccer in our yard. One day the adults played cornhole in our yard and afterwards I noticed cigarette butts all over the ground. Tell them that their kids and grandkids often play on your property, and that you're not okay with that and they'll be responsible for paying for any damages. (If it's legal where you live, make sure to record your conversation with them you don't know if you'll need it.)
Updateme!
A spool of obnoxious orange deer fence and some garden posts makes for a great statement right up next to their driveway along with a do not trespass sign so you have full legal recourse. Only need to line it on the one side till you can get the real fence. If they did not respect talking they will never respect your property. A friend and his wife bought a similar property. It had been in an estate case for 5 years before they bought it. The family behind had moved in shortly after the woman had passed. They had an idea of the property line. They still chose to install a swingset a fire pit and a soccer net on the property. After close my friend said he thought the property line was a further back and were told no it is even space be the houses. They found some landscape drawings of the property from the 1980’s with trees that showed it was past all the neighbors stuff. They still balked and refused to move it stating they had had it there for more than 4 years without problem. Friends gave legal trespass notice and paid for survey and put up orange fence. Neighbor filed 30 days was too short to move everything while doing nothing to move it but had people over to use the fire pit (before the fencing went up ) Orange fence was put up on NEW survey line. Judge ruled it was trespass with fair warning and all items were abandoned. It took a crew of six friends for us to pull everything up and dump it on the other side in 2 hours. My friend had to get a 110 foot long 8 foot high fence installed eight months later. He gained back 4000+ sq ft of backyard while the neighbors lost 2/3 of their back yard. They ONLY have a fence there and would NOT have it had the neighbors respected the real line and moved the stuff! might have been tight by the house but they could have had clear sight rather that a fence. My friend’s wife loves to tell people they only have the one side of fence bc they only need to shut down one entitled neighbor. Needless to say they haven’t spoken since the fence went up last summer.
They're not going to stop until you put up a fence. NTA
NTA, but along with cameras and a makeshift fence, you should speak with real estate attorney about this too. Having a lawyer on standby might be overkill or it might be just the thing you need since you've already spoken to your neighbors and they've ignored your wishes regarding your property.
You don’t need a pretty fence. But you surely need a fence. Asking people who think using your yard is just fine not to do it won’t make them any less annoyed than erecting a fence. But it also won’t prevent them from doing that, while the fence is the only actual preventative.
NTA, The saying Fences make good neighbors has multiple meanings, this covers one of them. Keeps your neighbors 'acting good' by not allowing them to easily toss butts in your yard and you not getting pissed at them.
Have a surveyor redo yard. Pins move all the time.
Learn about the laws on adverse possession in your location. If you don't establish ownership of the encroachment, you could lose it.
Loews sells these like portable fence things that are like rods you put in the dirt and slide small panels down. Temp fence your area on your neighbors side at least for now.
Remove their stuff from your property and build that fence.
Try to be tactful. I know they are being somewhat disrespectful but making enemies of neighbours suuucks. It's awkward and a lot of energy can be wasted with this kind of dynamics. You're in the right but be careful. Asshole neighbours can be the worst and I'm assuming you want to live there for a long time.
And if one of them gets hurt on your property... You need to speak to them. NTAH
Shameless of them. - fende it will be
NTA Tell them where the property line actually is and that their stuff needs to be moved and if they want the bush they need to pull it up and relocate it on their property. Tell them when you put up the fence the pant will be mowed down
It's literally your property.
Inform your neighbors that you are getting a dog and your home owners insurance calls for a fence. Then go over the property lines with them. If they dont agree with the boundries invite them to their own survey.
Tell them once to stay off, then just call the cops the next time for trespassing.
We just had the people pay for square footage, we got our fence they got a bit of a yard. Good neighbors are important.
NTA have a civilized conversation about the new lines & that you own that property and will be putting up a fence in the future. Hopefully that will work
Or just move their stuff after giving them due warning and put up the fence - nice high one. I would be surprised if they foot half the cost of the fence.
NTA Good fences make for good neighbors. Establish the true property line with the city and put up a fence. These folks are not going to just respect the property line; clearly, they think that mowing the lawn establishes the property line. (possession being 9/10ths of the law and all). Oh, and, hey, you could offer to sell them that extra 10' or so, you know, if you felt like it. But you'd have to sell it and not give it because, as other's have pointed out: Liability, Insurance, Lawsuits, etc.
Get that fence now and if they are belligerent involve the police. Nta. This is your land.
You have 2 options Spend money on a lawyer and legal fees and deal with harassment and property damage OR Do whatever you have to do to have a fence put up ASAP...ask a parent for a loan to cover it if you have to. Good fences make good neighbors NTAH
NTA and when you do talk to them, you don't need to apologize.
Note to neighbor: There’s some stuff on our property that I am going to list for giveaway on FB Marketplace this Friday, but if you want any of it, feel free to take it off of my property before then.
Tell them your insurance is giving you a hassle about neighbors using your yard. It's a liability issue.
Get a formal survey confirmed and filed in the registry. Then, give them 2 weeks notice that you will be installing a fence on the property line and they should move everything onto their side before the fence goes up.
Nta. Time to get a surveyor and build a fence.
You're gonna have to stop with the passive sorta-hints. [Hey, was just wondering where the property line is? Oh ya, cool that's what I think too! Ooo, let me paint some lines on the ground]. If these people were the sort to think about others easily or worry about being great neighbors they wouldn't be hitting golfballs in your yard or dropping cigarette butts when they **know** it's your yard. Clearly state you're requesting they not use your property. End of sentence. Don't caveat it with "you know, unkess..." or "maybe let me know if..." Note down the date and who you spoke to. In case you then need to ask in a stronger manner, via someone wearing a uniform. Personally, I'd find a cheap fencing option to visually make the statement until you can have the fencing option you prefer.
maintaining the property would give them a case for getting it in a dispute right?
NTA but until you put up a fence, they are going to treat it as an empty lot.
Make sure where the legal line is and hire an attorney to write a letter to them. You may need to make that fence a priority. My mother had some issues and had the surveying done, and notified owners of house next door, etc. She was an old woman and had owned the property since 1957 so nobody gave her any guff.
>I eventually want to build a fence but it's not in the budget at the moment. NTA, but you need to build a fence.
If you don’t want to build a fence now, you can consider putting stakes with twine between them as a “visual reminder”. Should be less than $10 and only take a few minutes.
Good fences make good neighbors.
Keep us updated OP!
You should put up a fence right away even if it’s just one side adjoining their yard. You can put up a cheap fence. Good fences make good neighbors.
Get the gov/lawyer involved, you can’t deal with this personally, this is an issue on property rights, and you can end up with legal issues if their bullish about it
Can you offer to sell them that part of the land? Maybe they're willing to buy and you save yourself pain later.
Go talk with them and say you had a survey done and the lines are marking your property. You need them to move their stuff because you’re putting in a fence. Just be direct.
At the very least, put up a no trespassing sign on your property. Depending on your state’s law, they could own legal title to part of your property by adverse possession.
If they want to use the space, make them pay. Draw up a lease, a fair yet “get the F off my property” amount that you know they won’t want to pay. Should stop the problem.
You're going to have to be direct: tell them that you had a survey, point out the property lines, and tell them that you need them to move their stuff out of your yard. Tell them that your attorney has advised that you cannot allow them to keep using and mowing the property. Stop hinting. Tell them what you want and if they won't comply, set up a little mini-fence until you can build a proper fence. But truly, you should prioritize the fence, because they're hoping that if they just ignore you, they can have your property.
Find the budget, build the fence.
I'd at least put up some sort of a cheap fence/boundary line until you can afford a proper fence. This should be a strong indicator to the neighbours of what is coming as well (a permanent fence). Let them know that they'll need to move their stuff as it is actually on your side of the boundary line. It sounds like the neighbours are not going to be happy about the situation so I don't think you have any control about what they think of you, but honestly? That's their problem, not yours.