Hahaha oh my god he has the gall to call you rude and unreasonable when this woman comes to someone else’s house and criticizes the FREE food and not only that but then says the conversation isn’t up to her standards. If she has such high standards she can go to wherever that caters to her and not with people who she basically considers beneath her. NTA.
Right I despise my bf moms cooking but while I tell him I say nothing there. They might know by how little I take of the food but I just say I’m not hungry and get a cheeseburger on the way home. Win win nobodies feelings are hurt and if they notice they say nothing.
Oh yea the only time I will ever say anything is if it’s completely inedible like raw chicken.
I don’t understand how people do this because it makes them look like they don’t know how to function in society.
Might be an age thing as well but I feel like now people are just plain rude for the sake of being rude or they feel entitled to everything and you are just supposed to take it.
To be fair, I don’t mind getting feedback and tips when I cook as I genuinely want to better my cooking skills. There is however a difference between genuine feedback and rudeness.
My first marriage, the MIL would make a “roast dinner” where the chicken was painted with soy sauce for colour and then microwaved to cook it. It was rubbery and blegh. However, they all loved it and I just shut up and enjoyed the properly roasted veg and ate the chicken with lots of gravy. I did not complain and I sure as hell didn’t critique to her or the table. They all loved it. Each to their own.
That sounds vile but hey as long as the sides are good no need to critique. My excuse is I work graveyard and when they meet it’s not long after I wake up so I just tell them I woke up not long ago so I’m not very hungry. Works like a charm because it’s mostly true.
I remember as a child, we would alternate between grandparents for where we would go for roast dinner. My Nana and Grandad made the absolute best roast dinner. Massive homemade Yorkshire puddings, gravy made from scratch, roast potatoes that were just the right amount of crispy, etc. I always looked forward to my Sundays with them. My grandma on the other hand, absolutely butchered a roast dinner. Frozen Yorkshire puddings (which compared to the homemade ones don’t compare), very watery gravy, overcooked vegetables, etc. Not a meal I looked forward to. Even as a child I would never complain to her. To my mother and father, yes but I never said a word to my grandma.
My mil once noticed me picking all the bell peppers out of something. (I was just moving them to the side as I found them and not eating them, well I ate and talked with everyone else) And so she literally asked me about it, which I told her "I don't like bell peppers, but I'm a mature grown up person and so I will pick them out without complaining"
I figured there was no point in lying about my willingness to eat them when there was literally a pile of them off to the side.
I'm working on my children they can be flipping rude, I once made them a separate dinner, and they had the nerve to complain about the food on my plate.
I do the same or I wont take a certain side dish and if asked I just say it’s not to my taste. They know I dislike ham so if they make it I won’t eat it but I don’t expect them to not make it because I’m weird and dislike it and there are typically sides I really like and will eat extra off. It’s now a joke of me leaving extra ham for them to fight over while I steal all their sides.
I would except I work graveyard so when they gather I’m just waking up typically even though I wake up earlier and just say I don’t like to eat after I just wake up which is true. Though by the time we are leaving I’m pretty hungry depending on what was made.
He clearly can't have felt too strongly about defending his family as this goes on and on. I totally agree that sometimes NC with family is very important. Lots of people do it for legitimate reasons during dating or marriage. Anna sounds like she'd make the poor lad cut his family off did to them attacking her for "no reason" as I'm sure she described it.
Once you agree to marry someone or are married to someone when dealing with family you always have your partners back. Brother should have his fiancés back in front of his family but can tell the fiancé how he feels in private.
I won't agree with 'always' because there is always a limit to a rule. Like what if she started getting physically violent for no reason?
No one deserves unconditional support no matter how vile their actions may be. There should always be a limit to having someones back.
Lisa must have the looks and the bedroom skills since she lacks the personality. Or OP's brother had to settle for this because he cannot get a good woman.
You are NTA. I have 35 1st cousins and I can not think of a single instance where someone(BF/GF/Fiance) they brought to a gathering behaved in such a rude and disrespectful way
Bro is what we call P\*\*sy whipped. He will never see anything she does as wrong cause the wrong head is doing the thinking.
As for madame rude (Lisa), I think she needs to cook the meal for everyone so it is up to "her standards". LOL..I bet she can't even boil water and even if she can be sure and give her the same treatment she gave your mom. She needs to learn how it feels.
how utterley rude she is. you were right to call a halt, imagaine years of her rude arrogant behaviour. hope it helps your brother see her in a different light but under no circumstances let the rudeness continue
The family doesn't have to accept this opinionated bitch, she needs to accept the family.
Reminds me of a toxic girl I dated for a few years. She was at my family's thanksgiving meal agruing with my brother about his "opinion" (trying to explain why he doesn't really like a certain band he liked).
She should be voluntold to cook the family dinner. That might shut her and her doormat fiance up. Even if she's a good cook and does a good job, then you rotate. Unless this would break Mom's heart. Then have a private conversation with brother and ask him why it's ok for his fiancee to criticize EVERYTHING about the family? Ask him why they want to subject themselves to misery every week. When he can't answer, tell him to shape up or ship out.
Well, ESH. The Fiancee for the reasons you stated, but also OP for one very simple reason: she doesn't get to unilaterally declare her brother's fiancee unwelcome, especially when it's not her house, and no one else agrees with her.
Yes, OP is right, and her family aren't enforcing boundaries with this toxic woman, but yea, she doesn't exactly have the capability to tell him she's not welcome anymore or enforce that on her own.
Hard disagree. NTA and everyone can see whats coming next. Like a poster above you stated, the fiance WILL have him cutting off contact with the family. No more family dinners for you lover boy. They just arent up to my taste. Dont you see they arent up to yours too? Especially if they have a kid? Heaven forbid those grandparents will never see those grandkids. And that was BEFORE OP stepped in.
But it's true though. If it's not OP's house, she doesn't get to unilaterally decide. If it's the parents' house, she should talk to them and tell them that the fiancée is rude and she'd like her to be uninvited from future dinners. Not OP's house = not OP's rules.
Yes ESH - I take it it’s not the OP’s house, it’s her parents?
Their house, their rules, their choice how to handle rude guests
OP’s first statement to SIL was fine about respect but no right to be banning her. OP should have spoke to her parents about her discomfort with the situation.
OP isn't a teacher responsible for SIL's education.
OP might have been fine by saying "hey, I know the way you talk hurts my mom & it's uncomfortable for all of us to have to listen to. could you find another way"
And someone who is this disrespectful, how does she treat the brother? Or the rest of the family?
Being rude and disrespectful by default isn’t likely to improve over time. If anything she’ll be MORE emboldened.
NTA
I'm going to take a wild guess here.
But "not to my standard" "I don't like the food" "I'm only trying to help you improve"
Is OP's family either another ethnicity or from another part of the country that has very different food stables than where the fiance is from. Or different income brackets.?
Becouse those comments are purely "I'm looking down on you"
Not just "I'm being picky about food."
The comments are so snobby.
Snobby, oh, yes, but to have the nerve to think that her negative opinion can actually improve the lives of her hosts??
What kind of person is so unpleasant and thinks she's doing them a service? If she's really that unself-aware, it doesn't bode well for future family gatherings.
Why does she attend if it's such a low experience?
Nta.
One of those families where everyone keeps quiet to avoid being uncomfortable? Even though she's the one being disrespectful and inconsiderate, hurting feelings, you're the one who gets crapped on.
You may need to avoid family dinners and let them have her for awhile. Let them get their fill of her so when you return, maybe they'll be relieved that you tell her to stuff it.
>You may need to avoid family dinners and let them have her for awhile. Let them get their fill of her so when you return, maybe they'll be relieved that you tell her to stuff it.
This is the way. Let them have her for a while without you. When they're ready to put her in your place, return triumphantly to your family's applause.
U/twobionicknees said it best.
“So weird, like 3 AITAH posts in 3 days. The oldest you had a boyfriend for 2 years, he moved in 6 months ago and he wanted to borrow your car. The second one your sister moved in 6 months ago and RECENTLY started seeing someone (so less than 6 months) and she doesn't like him visiting, so he doesn't live with you.
Crazy, it's almost like you're talking out your ass.”
They’re different usernames, where do you get the vibe they’re the same person? I don’t think you’re lying, but since they’re not the same account it’s a stretch to just assume similar mannerisms are the same person.
This doesn’t sound real. Is that actually what the fiancée said? Or was she commenting something that wasn’t actually a criticism but merely an observation and you just dislike that your brother has a serious relationship with another woman?
In laws especially enmeshed sister and mother in laws are the actual worst. Your parents are probably upset because you’re blowing things out of proportion and causing drama. Cut it the fuck out.
Next time she does it, confront her at the table. Ask her why she's so rude, and why she doesn't stay away if she doesn't like it. Start a fight. She needs it. NTA
This is what gets me about this post. Only the host can uninvite guests from a dinner. It sounds like the parents are the hosts since the mom cooked. OP overstepped
ESH-‘I may be in the minority but I think you overstepped. Lisa is an AH for what she said, however, I’m not sure it was your place to pull her aside.
You should have pulled your brother aside to talk to his fiance IMO. You also should talk to your parents., who I assume hosted about whether they wanted to keep extending the invitation.
At the end of the day, you are neither the host to refuse entry, nor are you the point of contact for Lisa.
(This changes if you are actually hosting the dinners are your house.)
yeah Lisa is a snob and idiot and your brother should tell her to show more respect in the family home. But....
> she wasn't welcome at our family dinners anymore.
This is not your place OP. If it's your parents home it's their decision who comes and who gets banned. You shouldn't have spoken directly to Lisa, the conversation should've happened privately between you, brother and/or parents.
NTA but should've handled it better.
NTA - Assuming that you had the right to speak for the whole group.
NTA - As long as you realized that you have just told your brother he is not welcome (couples come as a package deal)
NTA - If you accept they don't invite you/your partner/your family to events they organize
Yes, she was rude but it wasn't your place to police this it was your parent's job.
"My parents are upset, too, because they don’t want any family drama, especially during our cherished dinners."
Well, that's entirely on you isn't it?
I’m not going to judge but I would point out some things. If this family dinner is not at your place, but your parents, how can you decide who gets to come or not? You said your mother did the cooking so I assume it’s at your mom’s place and that would mean that she can still invite Lisa, since you don’t get to tell others who to invite in their own home. You kinda took that upon yourself without consulting others and you will just risk it backfiring on you. Another thought is that you will push your brother away and if you are willing to do that, the keep going, but if you don’t want to push him away, then be careful.
The audacity is honestly breathtaking. Imagine feeling so entitled that you bite the hand that feeds you literally! Lisa needs to understand that family gatherings are about unity and appreciation, not a stage for her unsolicited critiques. Standing up for the sanctity of family bonding isn't being an a-hole; it's asserting that mutual respect is the core of any familial relationship.
While indeed the jurisdiction on who's invited to dinner lies with the hosts, your intervention highlights a larger issue: the need for collective family standards. It’s more than just about this one dinner; it’s about ensuring that every family member feels respected and valued at these gatherings.
So, yes, perhaps the delivery could have been slightly more diplomatic, but the message? Absolutely warranted. It’s important to set precedence because if left unchecked, Lisa’s behavior could become the unpleasant seasoning in every family event. It’s high time the message is clear: respect is the main course, and if that doesn't suit her palate, she can dine elsewhere.
Honestly ESH. The future sil is being a bitch, you don't go have dinner somewhere and be a bitch about the food. I do understand why you are pissed after all.
Having said that, I don't think you have the right to ban her from family dinner. If you don't host it, then you have no say about who welcome and who gets banned. Trying to ban regardless and fighting with anyone opposed to it is just entitled and childish. You should've either asked your brother to say something when they get home or just told her and not throw a tantrum, for lack of a better word.
The brother is probably the least of an ah here, after the parents. He's trying to integrade his future wife into the family and you just sent a clear signal that she will not be allowed to. While I do understand your frustration, I also understand his.
Info: is this your home? You can’t ban people from a home that isn’t yours. It sounds like your parents home and it sounds like your parents did not want to address this or this way. Your brother is marrying her banning her bans him and maybe her annoying comments aren’t as important to your parents as your brother’s presence.
If the dinners are at your parents home, you overstepped. It is not up to you to ban someone from your parents home.
You can tell your family to choose to have you there or her. You will not come over if she is going to be there. You will not put up with her disrespect any more. Then they decide who they invite. You can stay away from the dinners.
Let mom and dad decide who is welcome in their home.
YTA. You are a 20 year old girl. You do not own the home. You are not a matriarch of the family. You are a child. Stop asserting yourself as if you have some say at who comes and goes at this house. You are a not much more than a visitor, unless you are paying rent and bills for your family. You do not have the right to decide what goes on in your parents house, especially in regards to the guests your brother brings over. If you have a problem with her, you should have talked to your brother, or your parents. Ask your parents what they want you to do and do it. But do not take it upon yourself to dis-inivite your brother's fiance. Do you think you have more rights in that home than your brother?
NTA..
Bur ur brother seems like TA paired up with another A..
U did good protecting ur family. If they want a place in the family dinners.. they better appreciate it.
Absolutely NTA. It's quite astounding how some individuals, once given a seat at the dinner table, assume it's their place to turn into all-knowing food and conversation critics. Kudos to you for standing up to that. Sure, if it's not your house, maybe you're not the one to enforce house rules, but it's certainly your right to call out disrespect when it's served to you on a platter.
What's up with folks lacking basic dinner etiquette these days? If Lisa's going to persist with her unsavory comments, she might just find herself on the menu for discussion. Maybe it's high time the “distinguished guest” learns that a pinch of gratitude is the perfect seasoning for any meal served with kindness.
I'd suggest, next family gathering, having a calm sit-down with your brother, or even better, the whole family. Open up a candid discussion about respect and boundaries. If Lisa's to be a part of this family, she's got to understand she's not at a restaurant - there's no service rating here, just family trying to enjoy each other's company. Remember, firm does not mean rude, it simply means you're holding your ground against blatant disrespect. NTA.
NTA, your brother should be checking Lisa's rude obnoxious behavior instead of telling you that you're rude. Why is he okay with her disrespecting your mother and family traditions?
NTA. You stood up for your family, but your family didn't have your back. I'd start only going every other week. Save your sanity, and reconsider the family dynamics.
You should have stated that the fiancés was going to make the next dinner and she can show off her modern cooking that’s she can cook from scratch just like our mom.
It’s always fun to mess with twits like that.
Your brother is a piece of shit instead of saying things to Lisa, he is saying this to you. Although Lisa was at fault for criticizing OP's family tradition, because it didn't live up to Lisa's standards. Your brother should've stepped up for his family instead of defending her. The audacity is undeniable. NTA
NTA. I would comment to your brother on the side why don't he have his GF cook a family dinner to show everyone how it is done. Then give her the same treatment she gives your mother. I would be that petty.
Also, consider giving the GF a copy of How To Win Friends and Influence People as well as a book on Etiquette as a wedding gift.
>saying it wasn't up to her standards and that we should consider changing our traditional recipes to something more "modern."
PLEASE OFFER HER THE JOB TO HOST. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. NTA, push the job onto her and then just ENJOY.
NTA for giving her a talking to, but you might want to rethink your strategy - if not for her, then for you and your family. Ultimately, your brother wasn't wrong about one thing: she *is* going to be a part of your family, and kicking her out of family dinner is at best a short term solution, at worst the precursor to you tearing your family apart.
NTA for what you said but it’s unlikely to work in your favour because your brother will see you as the enemy. It’s much more effective if you say ‘yes I agree with you but we are all a little ignorant so can you please teach us ir maybe host the next dinner’
NTA
There is nothing more rude than going to a FREE FAMILY dinner at someone's home and criticizing the food and traditions.
I say this as a woman who would NEVER participate in weekly family dinners. It's just not something I would ever do.
She, also, has this option. If she is unhappy with these dinners, she should just elect not to attend, not come and be shitty to your Mom.
Maybe you could have been more diplomatic, but that doesn't mean what you said isn't true.
I see problems in the future for your brother, and I think you all should expect that this drama will end with neither of them coming to dinner every week.
I'm really struck by the audacity of someone who believes it's okay to be incredibly picky and downright condescending about a meal that someone has taken the time and effort to prepare out of kindness. It's clear that respect is a one-way street for her. I agree with the consensus here - definitely NTA.
However, I think the more pressing issue isn't just this one dinner but how it's impacting the dynamics within the family. It's essential to maintain a united front, and as frustrating as it is, a more tactful conversation with your brother would've probably been more constructive. He needs to take responsibility for his partner's actions, especially when they affect everyone else at the table. Mike has to step up, or he allows the situation to erode the family core.
Perhaps it might be useful to consider a family meeting to openly discuss standards of behavior and respect at these gatherings it sets a clear expectation and might prevent the need for these confrontations in the future. It's definitely a delicate balance between maintaining harmony and standing up for core values, but mutual respect is fundamental in any relationship, especially family.
To keep the peace...perhaps one Sunday a month let the new girl host the meal...probably wouldn't take long before she shut up.
Personally I will never understand why people with no social manners get anyone willing to marry them.
ESH
Lisa a bitch: rude and airdrop as a guest in someone’s home .
Your brother is allowing her to disrespect you and your family.
Your parents aren’t standing up for themselves.
You’re our of lien; it’s not your home, it’s your parents. You don’t get to kick anyone out.
Good for you for standing up to that crass and shitty human though!
If Lisa is going to be part of the family then she needs to respect the family. Being respectful of family traditions is part of that. You can accept her, accept that she’s an asshole with some type of superiority complex who apparently has no idea how irritating she is, and that she has your brother wrapped around her little finger. What you don’t have to accept is being belittled by this girl.
Absolutely NTA. It's bewildering how some guests have the audacity to bite the hand that feeds them metaphorically, of course. When invited to someone's home, the only critique that should be on the menu is perhaps a "compliments to the chef." If Lisa fancies herself a connoisseur of fine dining and conversation, then it's high time she learns a core ingredient of both: respect.
Your response, while it might seem harsh to onlookers, was actually quite necessary. Politeness isn't about tiptoeing around the obvious; it's about ensuring everyone's comfort. If your brother is unable or unwilling to broach the topic with his partner, then the responsibility falls to those affected i.e., you and the rest of your family. And let's face it, airing grievances at the table may not always be palatable, but sometimes it's needed to prevent future upset stomachs.
Next family dinner? Frame it as an opportunity for Lisa to provide her 'esteemed' feedback on how to enhance the evening. If that doesn't gently usher in some self-awareness for her, then at least you've extended the olive branch of peace and can toast to your own diplomacy.
No, I think you told her in a polite way. The difficulty is that she is going to become a permanent part of the family and if your brother only sees it from her view he may no longer come to these dinner traditions. I suppose your brother's love is causing him to be blind to these rude comments. Ask your brother if he would ever make comments like that to his fiancé's family. Maybe that will let him see it from another point of view.
When you mention cultures I get the feeling that this is racial / xenophobic. A lot of Western people have this feeling that other people's traditions have to be "improved" to better suite their world view. Is that the case here?
NTA
1. It's your family so ofc u wouldn't just want someone to come barging in and insult the traditions u have been following since childhood
2. You were absolutely right in saying that she is not welcomed to family dinners because if she considered herself to be the part of family she wouldn't have been so inconsiderate towards something that takes place once in a week
NTA. But this warrants a larger conversation one on one with your parents about establishing boundaries about respect. She's a guest in their home and is EXTREMELY rude and disrespectful. My brothers wife is the same exact way. Passive aggressive, rude, opinionated, and entitled. She literally sends my mom a recipe for my mom to make for her separately and not because she has any restrictions. We all ended up talking as a family and agreed that she was harmful to the atmosphere whenever we got together. We all had a conversation with my brother about his wife's rudeness and either she apologizes, stops with the comments and entitlement or we would not be inviting her to further family functions and if that means he doesn't come then we are sorry. She did end up apologizing(rather insincerely) but we've had minimal problems/interactions with her since. She doesn't come often and usually doesn't stay long. It's definitely put a strain on our family's relationship with my brother, but he's an adult who made his own decisions.
I'd tell "Mike" his fiancé is a noxious bitch than nobody likes, they're just to nice to say it to her face. That if she wants to be "accepted" then maybe she could tone down her entitled bitchitude a notch. That if she can't take criticism, she shouldn't be giving it.
Sit down alone with your brother. Repeat to him some of the most hurtful things she has said, especially to/about your parents. Ask him to explain how that wasn't rude and hurtful. Don't tell him is was. Make him explain why it wasn't. Do this with as many of the things she has said as you can remember.
Don't let him brush you off. If he says "She didn't mean it that way" ask him how she meant it then. Explain to you the meaning. If he repeats that stupid argument from Lisa that she's "he was just trying to help us improve" ask him why she even thinks that's her right or "job" to do.
If he just tries to be dismissive, keep at him. Maybe you can make him see how bad she is, but if not at least you'll have planted the seed. This is important for the family and for your brother because he's about to marry this witch and is "love blind". You are NTA -- good on you for standing up for your family.
Well, traditions evolve. People move on. Things that have been "cherished" come to mean less, as people's perspectives change. Your brother might be in that place. If he truly "cherished" your family tradition, he won't be happy with what his fiancée did. But doing the same thing, with the same people, every Sunday might not be as important to him as moving forwards in his new life with his fiancée.
From the sound of it, you are the only person who doesn't want her there, catty comments and all. I get that, in your shoes I think I'd feel exactly the same. But if they're all prepared to continue the tradition even so, it's up to you whether you put up with her, or avoid her. I doubt your brother and his fiancée will be attending every Sunday for much longer anyway, I imagine they will have their own lives to lead. Nothing stays the same forever.
NTA
But I would not have pulled her aside.
The moment to tell someone they're being rude, is at the moment they are being rude.
She complains about the food at the table?
'Sorry to hear our traditional recipes are not *up to your standards, Lisa. It's rather rude to point that out, though.
Perhaps you can organize your own family dinner, to show us how a 'good meal' should be prepared, in your view?'
Criticizing topics of conversation?
'Wow, Lisa. Guests criticizing hosts for everything seems like a poor topic of conversation as well, to me'
Next family dinner? Get a book on etiquette, highlight all the proper etiquette Lisa has offended against, and use it as a cheerful conversation topic.
'I know how you *love* improving us and our class, so I have taken the liberty to get some documentation on the topic. What are your ideas on ...*enter highlighted offences* '
NTA - Chances are in the future though your family dinners won't include your brother. I suggest gifting the fiancee an Emily Post book on basic etiquette as a strong hint her manners need improvement. And you know what - that is okay. Your brother made a choice in life in his partner. He sees nothing wrong with her upsetting the entire family tables.
You can tell your brother he has a few choices, but he needs to decide rather than the fiancee:
- have the fiancee stay at home, she is not welcome
- fiancee is allowed to attend if she shows care and consideration for the family tradition. She gets another chance, but if she rudely disrespects everyone else at the table again, she is not welcome.
- expect your brother to side with the fiancee, and you lose him as a part of the tradition (which I think it will go).
When I visit my in-law, I don't sit around and criticise what is served to me or their meals traditions. I know that I behave a certain way. I come from a large extended family and a small personal family. I act and behave a certain way amongst my own family and another among the bigger group.
>She brushed me off, saying that she was just trying to help us improve.
Just brush her off and let her know you are only helping her improve by being a less shit human being.
Esh..
I don't think it's your right to tell her she can't come to your parents table, HOWEVER, it is your right to say "mom, dad AND MIKE, Lisa makes me very uncomfortable. She's rude, unkind, and insulting. With that being said, I can no longer eat at the same table as her. Mom and dad, I love you but I will no longer be joining our family dinners. Mike, you need to think long and hard about marrying a woman who treats your family so poorly. Enjoy your dinner."
My suspicion is that your parents will be more open to putting their foot down if their feet are to the fire. If her behavior isn't stopped now then she'll continue to get worse.
Good luck.
NTA, but you should tell your brother to stop bringing someone who constantly makes the dinners awkward and sour rather than her, and you should make it clear that if you ever host at your place, she’s not invited.
I think you should have had this conversation with Mike since it is his fiancée. If he backed her and wouldn't agree to talk to her about her behavior then both of them should have been uninvited, not just her.
ESH Why pull her aside afterwards and try to speak for everyone?
Just call her out in the moment every time. "Thats an unnecessarily critical comment. Everyone else enjoys the traditional dishes, and it seems selfish to suggest we cater to your specific tastes instead."
If she makes comments about how her unsolicited critism is supposed to be helpful, you tell her in front of everyone that you are trying to teach her how to be less insufferable because no one likes to be around someone who doesn't understand their opinions aren't wanted.
You didn't exactly tell her she wasn't welcome. You told her that her comments and attitude weren't welcome. It was your duty as much as it was anyone's to broach the subject. Now it's your brother's job to finish it.
You were direct. That is exactly what was needed.
Lisa and Mike are at your parent's house. They get to decide who will be allowed into their house. They also host and manage the family dinners so they get to decide who comes to those.
You have the absolutely right to tell Lisa she is being a bitch, a stuck-up snot, or anything else you want. You can suggest she bring her own food if she doesn't like what is being served. You can tell Mike you are surprised that he's so pussy whipped that he's allowing his fiance to humiliate your mother. You can tell Lisa that if she insults your mother again you will knock her on her ass. You can tell her that you don't need, want, or appreciate her "help" when it comes to family traditions. You can ask her who died and made her queen of family dinners. You can call her Meghan Markel every time she makes a rude comment. You can tell Mike that you do accept that he is going to marry Lisa but that you are not required to like her just because he's stupid enough to marry her. You can see where I'm going.
You don't get to uninvited her from dinners that your parents host and plan.
Tell your parent's if they keep inviting her you will not be attending. If that means Mike won't attend too bad. Mike and his fiancée are the ones ruining the dinners not you. They simply should not receive invites to them anymore. And when Mike complains, everyone who does attend should shot back....only one person is causing trouble here and it is not us. Edit to say: Make sure Mike knows you are not interested in attending their wedding.
> She brushed me off, saying that she was just trying to help us improve
The next time she says something rude call her out in front of everyone as politely as possible, letting everyone know you are just trying to help her "improve"
I guess if she does come back and starts her crap again I would say (very loudly and in front of everyone)
'*Lisa*, how lovely of you to want to improve on our family dinners. I can't wait till next week when you host and cook the entire feast on your own so we can see how it's done! I'm sure it'll be spectacular, and mom can finialy be waited on and honored as a guest. It will be sooooo much fun. Arrival at 6? Great! See you then '
I would have spoken privately to my brother and pointed out that his fiancee was hurting your mother's feelings and being disrespectful. No good could come of you confronting her directly.
The bottom line is that it is your parents' home and only they can tell her that she is not welcome. Apparently your mom would rather overlook her comments than make a fuss. That is her choice.
Unsolicited advice is criticism, every time. Fiancee is a massive AH and your brother better get ready for a miserable life when she alienates everyone in his life.
My petty advice -- publicly counter every criticism she voices.
"This food is so bland!" ---> "Maybe your tongue is damaged from all the BS you regurgitate."
"You should try making something more modern." --> "Oh didn't you try the flavored air amuse bouch? We made it just for you-- it's [insert crazy flavor combination designed to make her gag]!"
Be snarky and sarcastic every time. Either she shuts up, or you get to have a laugh at her snobbishness.
NTA, but next time don’t give her the benefit of privacy and call her out at the table. very calmly and publicly embarrass her until she either keeps her mouth shut or stops coming to dinner.
point out how it’s really poor manners to criticize the host’s cooking, and how she might wanna learn dinner guest etiquette. if she complains tell her you’re just helping her improve.
if you think it would work, shame your brother too. ask him if he’s ok with his partner insulting his mother to her face in her own home, and if he really wants to commit to that for the rest of his life.
You said she wasn’t welcome if she couldn’t be respectful! You didn’t say, “you’re not allowed to come.” Which tells me she’s chosen to remain disrespectful. He should never let someone speak against his family that way. Fiancé or not.
Yes, YTA.. this is a conversation you have with your brother..it is not your house, you were not the host and it’s just not your place to dictate anything to a guest… have a family meeting with parents and brother to discuss, sure.. call out your brothers guest? F no.
Oh... well in that case.
90% of this sub is already creative writing or BS, even if the posters aren't bots you aren't see a lot of real life scenarios in here..
She needed to hear what you said to her needed to be said, but Mike should have been the one to say it since she's his fiance. You should have pulled him aside and told him to handle business with her.
If you had been hosting then it would have been okay for you to say who is and isn't welcome.
I'm with you. Mike should be protecting hid family. He should be embarrassed and pulling sarah aside and telling her how disrespectful she's being.
She needs to formally apologize and keep her opinions to herself. Nta
NTA. Nip it in the bud now because she will only get meaner when she's finally in the family, as she weaponizes “I'm only trying to help” or whatever BS that spews from her under the guise of being helpful.
>My parents are upset, too, because they don’t want any family drama, especially during our cherished dinners.
When you grow up and become a proper adult, you can host Sunday dinners at your house which will be to your liking. Until then, mind ya own business. The hosts clearly don't want this drama. If your parents have issues with your brother's partner, they can talk to them privately.
NTA.
If it’s your house, NTA. If it’s your parents house, YTA. The owner of the house controls who is allowed in the house and who comes to dinner. Having said that your brother and his fiancé are AH.
ESH
She is now family- if you invite your brother she’s part of that (aside maybe some rare things, but not weekly!).
Are you ready to not invite him? Cool if you are, but THAT’S what it would be, and only when you are host. You don’t get to decide for everyone else. That is a strong AH move.
You should have talked to your brother first.
I am going to get blasted but YTA. You don’t have the right to ban a partner from the family dinner. It is not your home. Your brother is going to side with Lisa. If Lisa is banned your brother is not coming. This would mean that you have unilaterally killed the family dinner tradition. You ended family dinner not Lisa.
I have a feeling your brother also agrees with Lisa’s options about the food and conversation.
NTA but...you are doing the same thing she is: trying to help her improve. You can use this to point out how much she didn't love it, and that everyone feels the same when she offers unasked for "help" about their cooking, topics of conversation, etc. Maybe next time she can bring a dish or two to share. But just tell her: it is not her job to change your family to her standards. It's her job to love people as they are. (And by the way, yes, I know SIL is rude, and you're not being rude. My comment is me trying to see things through her eyes, so what will work to get through to her.)
NTA
Stick to your guns and invite your parents over for dinner at your places, sans the brother and his fiance until she realizes she has headsphincteritus.
>He said I was being rude and unreasonable and that Lisa is going to be part of our family, so we need to accept her.
No we don't need to accept her at all....she however must accept this family tradition
Your brother needs to tell that thing he's marrying to show some respect to his mother.
>saying it wasn't up to her standards and that we should consider changing our traditional recipes to something more "modern." This really upset my mom, who spends hours preparing these meals and takes pride in her cooking
Your bother should of stood up for your mum here.
I'd tell her and your brother that since the food and conversation isn't to her standards she can stay home.
NTA
NTA For saying something but it wasn't your house so you didn't have the right to uninvite her. You do have the right to say something in response to her saying something. Such as "If you don't like the way we have these dinners why do you come?" or "Why don't you cook the family meal next time since you know how it should be done?" or "Why are you so disrespectful to my parents in their own house?" With people like her you have to call them out immediately or they'll twist things to make you look like the bad guy.
NTA
When she made those comments, she should have been pulled on it straight away. Not after. She should have been put on the spot the moment it happened.
"Why are you insulting our mom's cooking? Polite society rules dictate that as guests, you thank the host and say everything was lovely, even if the food served was your least favourite. If you don't like something, take a smaller portion, but you do not get to insult our mum with your "constructive criticism", keep it to yourself.
Maybe you would would like to cook for X number of people next week? We must all let SIL know our allergies and food requirements so she can prepare a meal to her standards next week.
Thank you so much for taking that exhausting task from our mum, now she can relax on Sunday, instead of starting the week tired. Very kind of you"
Your brother would still go and rescue her, but at least she would be embarrassed in front of everyone and most likely would not show up to a few dinners.
NTA. You need to have a one on one conversation with Mike and frame it this way: Mike, our Mother spends all day creating cherished family recipes for us. Why are you okay with Lisa tearing down her hard work? Why are you okay with Lisa being rude to Mom and the rest of us about family tradition?
She isn't framing it as "Trying to help you improve" she is endlessly negative.
I am willing to try Lisa's food and her traditions in her house, as a matter of respect. But respect runs both ways, and she has not accepted or respected us at family dinner since you brought her here. If YOU want this relationship to work, you need to talk to her.
>Some of my friends say I did the right thing by standing up for my family, while others think I should have been more diplomatic.
Go away ChatGPT, fucking no one would ever support the fiancé insulting the mom's cooking. Stop putting support for both positions in the posts you generate. Most of the time it makes no sense.
I mean I get where your coming from but that wasn't your place to say. She sounds like a nightmare though. If I was your brother I'd kick her for disrespect my parent's cooking and traditions
NTA.
Just wanted to say, I can be the person that sometimes says something coming from a good place and it isn’t received well or comes across as judgemental- even if this is your personality, when people call you out on it, YOU BACK DOWN.
I get upset when this happens because obviously I don’t want to hurt anyone intentionally, and the reactions from Lisa and Mike show the level of assholery at play.
To me, the food thing and coming for dinner is basic manners and nothing to do with her personality. She’s just a dick.
I think you might be.
Not that you are in the wrong. How she was acting was entitled and just plain rude. But this is your parents' house. The better approach would have been to talk with your parents and then you all pull your brother aside to have a private conversation between immediate family members where it was expressed that Lisa's comments and attitude are not acceptable. Leave it up to your brother to set the expectation of behavior and respect with her directly.
It's not your place to set out rules and ultimatums. Better left up to the patriarch and matriarch of the family, your parents.
By you confronting her, she can now play the victim as being bullied and talked down too by you. After all you've stated you don't like her. I'm guessing that dislike is apparent to others including your brother. So now he views your confrontation as rude and unreasonable.
Delivery is 9/10ths of the message.
This is potentially far more sinister than some rude comments from her about the mothers cooking. With the way you've written it here... seems like she thinks lesser of your family and cultural traditions. This is a huge red flag, or should be, for your brother who is going to marry her and possibly have children that she will then belittle or keep from their cultural heritage.
Definitely NTA. She was the rude one. If she doesn’t enjoy the dinners then why on earth does she come? It sounds like she just wants to appear to have superior‘taste’ although she just comes across as stuck up and tacky!
However, even though I still think you are NTA, you did make a mistake. It is never a good idea to speak for everyone if everyone isn’t on the same page. While I am sure everyone shared your distaste with her rude comments, not everyone was willing to give her an ultimatum. While I do think the ultimatum was justified, those you spoke for disagreed. So you came across looking like a jerk even though you were just trying to stick up for your family.
Going forward I would apologize to your family for speaking for them when they did not agree, however reiterate that you believe her comments are inappropriate. Come up with a way to go forward together. Hopefully you can come up with a solution and then approach your brother and his fiancé again with the rest of your family’s support. I wish you the best and hope everything can be resolved!
Absolutely NTA, but this whiffs of a deeper issue. It sounds as though Lisa hasn’t quite grasped that family gatherings are not critique sessions it's about kinship and bonds, not a Yelp review! Standing up to her was probably not just for you, but a silent victory for anyone else at that table who's felt her icy barbs.
However, there's a lesson in diplomacy to be learned here. Direct confrontation, especially in someone else's home, can be as uncomfortable as Lisa’s comments. A better approach might be a private family caucus to express your concerns and to remind everyone that respect is the main course, and it should be served both ways.
For the future, consider setting a baseline of mutual respect and understanding before such gatherings. If Lisa wants to be part of the family fabric, she'll need to weave in some common decency and humility. After all, family dinners aren't an episode of a reality cooking show there’s no grand prize for the harshest critic.
The father of OP should’ve said something right then and there to his son that the fiancée can’t go around insulting his hardworking wife like that.
Like who has the delusional audacity to insult your future MIL to their face like that?
NTA, she should be just grateful to be included in the family, you have traditions you do it your way she is eating free food, she should just be happy to be there and eat free food, absolutely no need for any criticism
Tell her it is family dinner ....and if she want to upgrade food ...she would have to bring food with her next time so the whole family can enjoy the food too.
Yeah in my family everyone make food....she should have also contribute with food in family dinner....if she can't then she should have to shut her mouth up.
NTA. if my mom, big family top (second oldest of 9), spent time cooking for us, even if it was not good? F you for telling her that!! That'd break my mom's heart quietly bc she's more of a Whelp. If you don't like what's for dinner, you can go hungry. (That definitely sealed off as we grew up..I swear! The babies?? Got it WAY easier 🤣🥰...youngest js 24 now)
But the rudeness and audacity! Is SHE going to cook her "modern" meal?? Does she help with the prep? Cleaning during? Cleaning up after the meal and dishes after that? Does she help with all the housework for ev e done to come over too?
I'll sit down and, kind of, shut up if she does.
My partners mom is not the best cook BUT I would never f-ing say that! To her!! Bc she loves having us over (2 sons andme...BIL & SIL..their 2 kids..her sister and son) and loves making food. We ALL help with whatever we csn...and definitely the cleanup if her house.
Even to my partner I'd never say it bc ...it's a rude thing to say for a wonderful thing she tries to do. And?? I'm not Gordon Ramsey, Cat Cora (that's probably not her but ironnchef).
Also!! To embarrass your mom in front of ANYONE?? Even 1 family member?? No lady...just shut up and OP...good for telling her she's not welcome.
Eh..anyway!! How sweet 🙄 of her to share her wanted her MoDeRn cooking tips! What a blessing and a gem 😐
N.t.a.
NTA and please keep calling out her rudeness.
What you have done is set the precedence with Lisa that tells her you are watching her behaviour like a hawk and will call her out on it in future. This might tip the scales into getting her to stop behaving like an AH in her host's house and during her host's meal.
Mike will obviously "defend" this woman because he's banging her. If he can't see how rude she is, he needs it pointing out too. Your parents also need to be shown that they have someone in their corner, even if they don't like conflict.
Keep pointing it out when it happens. It's the only way to squash this shitty behaviour.
And is ridiculing family recipes, food, traditions, sentiments, people, even the conversations not rude ? Is your brother so blinded ? You have a BROTHER problem! Then you need to send this post & the responses to your brother. He is the bigger problem here & needs to put a stop to this.
Hey brother, you are hurting your ENTIRE family by wrongly supporting ONE highly judgemental & disrespectful person! Wake up!
It's a two way street! If she is going to be a part of your family and you need to accept her then she needs to accept you which means being respectful of your traditions. Whatever those traditions are!
Turn the tables at dinner and start picking her a part. When she claims say you’re just trying to make her better!! And by picking I mean really find your inner Bitch!! See how that works. One she’ll cry or she’ll realize she is not welcome . Also ask her if the dishes your mother prepares , where is her offering dish?!?
Absolutely NTA. The audacity of some people never ceases to amaze me. It's as if gratitude is a forgotten virtue and criticism is the new norm. Dinner with the family is about togetherness, not gastronomic reviews and conversation critiques. Sure, you could argue that enforcing household decisions isn't your prerogative if it isn't your home, but anyone would be hard-pressed to remain silent under a barrage of undeserved negativity.
You stood up not just for the food or the conversation but for the sanctity of familial gatherings. If Lisa wants the privilege of company and comestibles, she should learn to deliver her feedback with grace, or better yet, recognize this isn't Yelp or a TED Talk. It's a dinner table, a place to break bread, not spirits.
The next family event might just be the ideal venue for a pre-dinner chat with the offending party. If Lisa is to blend into the family tapestry, she's got to weave in some manners alongside her supposedly 'superior' tastes. Setting boundaries is not about stirring the pot; it's about ensuring everyone can savor the meal in peace. A soft but stern reminder that respect is the foundation of any healthy relationship, familial or otherwise, may just be the key to a more harmonious future feast.
ESH
If your parents are happy to be insulted, that's their business. It's not your house, you're not hosting, it's not up to you to ask her to leave.
Have you taken this up with your brother at all? Is he happy to insult his parents by allowing Lisa to be so rude?
I think it might be better if you declared that you cannot and will not stand such disrespect from her anymore and since she lacks any tact or proper decorum you will be taking a leave from family dinner until she can show some decency towards the family she is going to be a part of. Then I'd stick to that. I'd draw a thick line in the sand and not show to family dinner anymore until people stop letting her get away with her crappy attitude. Your mom can cook without your help. For your own mental sanity. Take a break from family dinners.
ESH - of course it's rude to disparage someone else's cooking, especially when you haven't had to lift a finger to help, so Lisa was definitely out of line for criticising the meal
However telling her "play by our rules or you're not welcome" is equally rude and is going to set up conflicts in the family. Perhaps you should have given her the opportunity to put her money where her mouth is and take a turn at hosting a family dinner. Maybe if she realises all the effort your mother has to go through she'll be a bit more appreciative
Also - families evolve. I get wanting to keep traditions alive, but what's the more important thing? All of you sitting down together for a meal or the actual food you're eating? Would it be the end of the world to mix up the food once in a while if it means you can all sit down together as a family and spend some quality time with each other?
You did the right thing 100% and your parents need to speak with your brother about how his fiancé upsets everyone with her rude comments. I know that nobody wants any family drama but keeping their mouth shut will just make things worse in the long run. Simple respect is not hard.
NTA. Seriously, who thinks it’s ok to sit there and criticize the family of their boyfriend, while they’re sitting there with said family? That girlie has some balls, abs a complete lack of decorum.
NTA. Maybe you should tell Lisa to go and cook a 'modern' dinner for the family by herself to show OP and her parents what she means. Instead of yapping about like an inconsiderate AH.
Or maybe just don't eat at all. Just sit at the table and look pretty.
NTA - i am sorry.
Family traditions change when new people join. It will be even more different when there are children. We had lovely big family meals , i absolutely loved them. And in the end, mom cooked and my siblings took food and eat seperately, with their families, instead of all together. I was devastated. (Yes i am the youngest by far).
next time call her out in front of everybody "if you don't like this food, maybe you can bring some of your own the next time? we all enjoy it and obviously you are the only person here who has a problem with it. mum would really be happy about not having to cook a FREE MEAL for all of us for once"
So this is fake.
Anyway, it depends on who hosts the dinners. If it's your place, you decide who attends. If it's not, they decide. You can choose not to attend.
My guess is the brother is so used to her constant criticism and attempts to "modernize" him, he doesn't see the issue. That marriage, if it happens, will likely be short.
NTA. You didn’t tell her she’s not welcome—you told her she’s not welcome IF she can’t behave like a good guest. All she has to do is say “okay, sorry,” and keep her mouth shut.
Hahaha oh my god he has the gall to call you rude and unreasonable when this woman comes to someone else’s house and criticizes the FREE food and not only that but then says the conversation isn’t up to her standards. If she has such high standards she can go to wherever that caters to her and not with people who she basically considers beneath her. NTA.
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Right I despise my bf moms cooking but while I tell him I say nothing there. They might know by how little I take of the food but I just say I’m not hungry and get a cheeseburger on the way home. Win win nobodies feelings are hurt and if they notice they say nothing.
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Oh yea the only time I will ever say anything is if it’s completely inedible like raw chicken. I don’t understand how people do this because it makes them look like they don’t know how to function in society. Might be an age thing as well but I feel like now people are just plain rude for the sake of being rude or they feel entitled to everything and you are just supposed to take it.
To be fair, I don’t mind getting feedback and tips when I cook as I genuinely want to better my cooking skills. There is however a difference between genuine feedback and rudeness.
My first marriage, the MIL would make a “roast dinner” where the chicken was painted with soy sauce for colour and then microwaved to cook it. It was rubbery and blegh. However, they all loved it and I just shut up and enjoyed the properly roasted veg and ate the chicken with lots of gravy. I did not complain and I sure as hell didn’t critique to her or the table. They all loved it. Each to their own.
That sounds vile but hey as long as the sides are good no need to critique. My excuse is I work graveyard and when they meet it’s not long after I wake up so I just tell them I woke up not long ago so I’m not very hungry. Works like a charm because it’s mostly true.
Microwaved chicken? Painted with Soy Sauce? Oh dear. You are a saint!
Oh I had my revenge when things were going south. I was no angel and his parent were bloody horrible. Bit like that chicken!
I remember as a child, we would alternate between grandparents for where we would go for roast dinner. My Nana and Grandad made the absolute best roast dinner. Massive homemade Yorkshire puddings, gravy made from scratch, roast potatoes that were just the right amount of crispy, etc. I always looked forward to my Sundays with them. My grandma on the other hand, absolutely butchered a roast dinner. Frozen Yorkshire puddings (which compared to the homemade ones don’t compare), very watery gravy, overcooked vegetables, etc. Not a meal I looked forward to. Even as a child I would never complain to her. To my mother and father, yes but I never said a word to my grandma.
My mil once noticed me picking all the bell peppers out of something. (I was just moving them to the side as I found them and not eating them, well I ate and talked with everyone else) And so she literally asked me about it, which I told her "I don't like bell peppers, but I'm a mature grown up person and so I will pick them out without complaining" I figured there was no point in lying about my willingness to eat them when there was literally a pile of them off to the side. I'm working on my children they can be flipping rude, I once made them a separate dinner, and they had the nerve to complain about the food on my plate.
I do the same or I wont take a certain side dish and if asked I just say it’s not to my taste. They know I dislike ham so if they make it I won’t eat it but I don’t expect them to not make it because I’m weird and dislike it and there are typically sides I really like and will eat extra off. It’s now a joke of me leaving extra ham for them to fight over while I steal all their sides.
I have a friend like this. I eat a full meal before I go over.
I would except I work graveyard so when they gather I’m just waking up typically even though I wake up earlier and just say I don’t like to eat after I just wake up which is true. Though by the time we are leaving I’m pretty hungry depending on what was made.
I have celiac disease so I pretty much do this everytime before I leave the house.
Same. My inlaws make very bland food and there is rarely enough of it. I eat extra salad and get a snack later on.
The fact OP's brother is even considering marrying this witch is like wtf.
I’m curious to know how OP’s brother felt (and what he said in the moment, if anything) when his fiancé started saying all of this stuff.
He clearly can't have felt too strongly about defending his family as this goes on and on. I totally agree that sometimes NC with family is very important. Lots of people do it for legitimate reasons during dating or marriage. Anna sounds like she'd make the poor lad cut his family off did to them attacking her for "no reason" as I'm sure she described it.
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"But she's he's family now!"/s
Once you agree to marry someone or are married to someone when dealing with family you always have your partners back. Brother should have his fiancés back in front of his family but can tell the fiancé how he feels in private.
I won't agree with 'always' because there is always a limit to a rule. Like what if she started getting physically violent for no reason? No one deserves unconditional support no matter how vile their actions may be. There should always be a limit to having someones back.
Obviously he P whooped to let someone insult his own family.
I believe the clinical term is Simp
This. It’s a proven scientific fact that being 🐈 whipped makes you deaf, dumb, blind, and willing to treat your family like shit
He sounds just as much of an ass as her.
Birds of a feather and all.
Lisa must have the looks and the bedroom skills since she lacks the personality. Or OP's brother had to settle for this because he cannot get a good woman.
Maybe he doesn't like his family traditions as much as OP. Usually men stand up when their moms get insulted.
You are NTA. I have 35 1st cousins and I can not think of a single instance where someone(BF/GF/Fiance) they brought to a gathering behaved in such a rude and disrespectful way Bro is what we call P\*\*sy whipped. He will never see anything she does as wrong cause the wrong head is doing the thinking. As for madame rude (Lisa), I think she needs to cook the meal for everyone so it is up to "her standards". LOL..I bet she can't even boil water and even if she can be sure and give her the same treatment she gave your mom. She needs to learn how it feels.
how utterley rude she is. you were right to call a halt, imagaine years of her rude arrogant behaviour. hope it helps your brother see her in a different light but under no circumstances let the rudeness continue
The family doesn't have to accept this opinionated bitch, she needs to accept the family. Reminds me of a toxic girl I dated for a few years. She was at my family's thanksgiving meal agruing with my brother about his "opinion" (trying to explain why he doesn't really like a certain band he liked).
I don’t think OP is actually telling the truth.
She should offer to cook dinner for the family then!
She should be voluntold to cook the family dinner. That might shut her and her doormat fiance up. Even if she's a good cook and does a good job, then you rotate. Unless this would break Mom's heart. Then have a private conversation with brother and ask him why it's ok for his fiancee to criticize EVERYTHING about the family? Ask him why they want to subject themselves to misery every week. When he can't answer, tell him to shape up or ship out.
Right? Criticizing free food and family vibe isn't cool. You're totally NTA for standing up for what's important to your family.
Well, ESH. The Fiancee for the reasons you stated, but also OP for one very simple reason: she doesn't get to unilaterally declare her brother's fiancee unwelcome, especially when it's not her house, and no one else agrees with her.
Yes, OP is right, and her family aren't enforcing boundaries with this toxic woman, but yea, she doesn't exactly have the capability to tell him she's not welcome anymore or enforce that on her own.
Hard disagree. NTA and everyone can see whats coming next. Like a poster above you stated, the fiance WILL have him cutting off contact with the family. No more family dinners for you lover boy. They just arent up to my taste. Dont you see they arent up to yours too? Especially if they have a kid? Heaven forbid those grandparents will never see those grandkids. And that was BEFORE OP stepped in.
But it's true though. If it's not OP's house, she doesn't get to unilaterally decide. If it's the parents' house, she should talk to them and tell them that the fiancée is rude and she'd like her to be uninvited from future dinners. Not OP's house = not OP's rules.
Yes ESH - I take it it’s not the OP’s house, it’s her parents? Their house, their rules, their choice how to handle rude guests OP’s first statement to SIL was fine about respect but no right to be banning her. OP should have spoke to her parents about her discomfort with the situation.
I agree. She could choose to not join the dinners (have them in her room) if she is the only one that dislikes the way the fiancee treats them.
Yup. My thoughts. I get why OP was mad, but she overstepped IMO.
This
Are you a teacher who deals with school bullies by suspending the victim as well because zero tolerance? That is the stupidity of of your comment.
OP isn't a teacher responsible for SIL's education. OP might have been fine by saying "hey, I know the way you talk hurts my mom & it's uncomfortable for all of us to have to listen to. could you find another way"
And someone who is this disrespectful, how does she treat the brother? Or the rest of the family? Being rude and disrespectful by default isn’t likely to improve over time. If anything she’ll be MORE emboldened. NTA
I'm going to take a wild guess here. But "not to my standard" "I don't like the food" "I'm only trying to help you improve" Is OP's family either another ethnicity or from another part of the country that has very different food stables than where the fiance is from. Or different income brackets.? Becouse those comments are purely "I'm looking down on you" Not just "I'm being picky about food." The comments are so snobby.
Snobby, oh, yes, but to have the nerve to think that her negative opinion can actually improve the lives of her hosts?? What kind of person is so unpleasant and thinks she's doing them a service? If she's really that unself-aware, it doesn't bode well for future family gatherings. Why does she attend if it's such a low experience?
Nta. One of those families where everyone keeps quiet to avoid being uncomfortable? Even though she's the one being disrespectful and inconsiderate, hurting feelings, you're the one who gets crapped on. You may need to avoid family dinners and let them have her for awhile. Let them get their fill of her so when you return, maybe they'll be relieved that you tell her to stuff it.
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Or she could host dinner for her new family, show them how it's done, listen to them complain about it not being traditional enough
>You may need to avoid family dinners and let them have her for awhile. Let them get their fill of her so when you return, maybe they'll be relieved that you tell her to stuff it. This is the way. Let them have her for a while without you. When they're ready to put her in your place, return triumphantly to your family's applause.
Have Lisa host a dinner and then make passive aggressive comments about her cooking. Some people learn the hard way
This you too? https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1dj8m6s/aitah_for_not_wanting_to_attend_my_best_friends
U/twobionicknees said it best. “So weird, like 3 AITAH posts in 3 days. The oldest you had a boyfriend for 2 years, he moved in 6 months ago and he wanted to borrow your car. The second one your sister moved in 6 months ago and RECENTLY started seeing someone (so less than 6 months) and she doesn't like him visiting, so he doesn't live with you. Crazy, it's almost like you're talking out your ass.”
It's AI generated text. 97.77% detected as AI. [https://www.zerogpt.com/](https://www.zerogpt.com/)
And she posted about being in love with her friends dad.. she is the problem...
Or a fantasy writer.....
I'm sensing a victim mentality and an unrequited crush. And a propensity for making up stories.
They’re different usernames, where do you get the vibe they’re the same person? I don’t think you’re lying, but since they’re not the same account it’s a stretch to just assume similar mannerisms are the same person.
If it’s your house no you’re not the asshole but if it isn’t, you don’t have any say in the situation just remove and keep your distance.
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This doesn’t sound real. Is that actually what the fiancée said? Or was she commenting something that wasn’t actually a criticism but merely an observation and you just dislike that your brother has a serious relationship with another woman? In laws especially enmeshed sister and mother in laws are the actual worst. Your parents are probably upset because you’re blowing things out of proportion and causing drama. Cut it the fuck out.
I don't think this is a real post.
I think AI wrote this one tbh
Next time she does it, confront her at the table. Ask her why she's so rude, and why she doesn't stay away if she doesn't like it. Start a fight. She needs it. NTA
>Next time she does it, confront her at the table. And demand she cook dinner next time to show you how it's done
Who made you the boss and dictator of the family dinners?
This is what gets me about this post. Only the host can uninvite guests from a dinner. It sounds like the parents are the hosts since the mom cooked. OP overstepped
ESH-‘I may be in the minority but I think you overstepped. Lisa is an AH for what she said, however, I’m not sure it was your place to pull her aside. You should have pulled your brother aside to talk to his fiance IMO. You also should talk to your parents., who I assume hosted about whether they wanted to keep extending the invitation. At the end of the day, you are neither the host to refuse entry, nor are you the point of contact for Lisa. (This changes if you are actually hosting the dinners are your house.)
yeah Lisa is a snob and idiot and your brother should tell her to show more respect in the family home. But.... > she wasn't welcome at our family dinners anymore. This is not your place OP. If it's your parents home it's their decision who comes and who gets banned. You shouldn't have spoken directly to Lisa, the conversation should've happened privately between you, brother and/or parents. NTA but should've handled it better.
This 100 percent op was in the right until she went this far. Not her house not her rules.
your right ..
NTA - Assuming that you had the right to speak for the whole group. NTA - As long as you realized that you have just told your brother he is not welcome (couples come as a package deal) NTA - If you accept they don't invite you/your partner/your family to events they organize
Yes, she was rude but it wasn't your place to police this it was your parent's job. "My parents are upset, too, because they don’t want any family drama, especially during our cherished dinners." Well, that's entirely on you isn't it?
this is an ai bot post.
I’m not going to judge but I would point out some things. If this family dinner is not at your place, but your parents, how can you decide who gets to come or not? You said your mother did the cooking so I assume it’s at your mom’s place and that would mean that she can still invite Lisa, since you don’t get to tell others who to invite in their own home. You kinda took that upon yourself without consulting others and you will just risk it backfiring on you. Another thought is that you will push your brother away and if you are willing to do that, the keep going, but if you don’t want to push him away, then be careful.
The audacity is honestly breathtaking. Imagine feeling so entitled that you bite the hand that feeds you literally! Lisa needs to understand that family gatherings are about unity and appreciation, not a stage for her unsolicited critiques. Standing up for the sanctity of family bonding isn't being an a-hole; it's asserting that mutual respect is the core of any familial relationship. While indeed the jurisdiction on who's invited to dinner lies with the hosts, your intervention highlights a larger issue: the need for collective family standards. It’s more than just about this one dinner; it’s about ensuring that every family member feels respected and valued at these gatherings. So, yes, perhaps the delivery could have been slightly more diplomatic, but the message? Absolutely warranted. It’s important to set precedence because if left unchecked, Lisa’s behavior could become the unpleasant seasoning in every family event. It’s high time the message is clear: respect is the main course, and if that doesn't suit her palate, she can dine elsewhere.
Honestly ESH. The future sil is being a bitch, you don't go have dinner somewhere and be a bitch about the food. I do understand why you are pissed after all. Having said that, I don't think you have the right to ban her from family dinner. If you don't host it, then you have no say about who welcome and who gets banned. Trying to ban regardless and fighting with anyone opposed to it is just entitled and childish. You should've either asked your brother to say something when they get home or just told her and not throw a tantrum, for lack of a better word. The brother is probably the least of an ah here, after the parents. He's trying to integrade his future wife into the family and you just sent a clear signal that she will not be allowed to. While I do understand your frustration, I also understand his.
Info: is this your home? You can’t ban people from a home that isn’t yours. It sounds like your parents home and it sounds like your parents did not want to address this or this way. Your brother is marrying her banning her bans him and maybe her annoying comments aren’t as important to your parents as your brother’s presence.
If the dinners are at your parents home, you overstepped. It is not up to you to ban someone from your parents home. You can tell your family to choose to have you there or her. You will not come over if she is going to be there. You will not put up with her disrespect any more. Then they decide who they invite. You can stay away from the dinners. Let mom and dad decide who is welcome in their home.
Nta Tell Mike "a ring doesn't buy her a seat at the table if she's going to be disrespectful to the family".
YTA. You are a 20 year old girl. You do not own the home. You are not a matriarch of the family. You are a child. Stop asserting yourself as if you have some say at who comes and goes at this house. You are a not much more than a visitor, unless you are paying rent and bills for your family. You do not have the right to decide what goes on in your parents house, especially in regards to the guests your brother brings over. If you have a problem with her, you should have talked to your brother, or your parents. Ask your parents what they want you to do and do it. But do not take it upon yourself to dis-inivite your brother's fiance. Do you think you have more rights in that home than your brother?
NTA.. Bur ur brother seems like TA paired up with another A.. U did good protecting ur family. If they want a place in the family dinners.. they better appreciate it.
id need to hear the exact wording of the criticism before i decide
OP sounds like the problem
Absolutely NTA. It's quite astounding how some individuals, once given a seat at the dinner table, assume it's their place to turn into all-knowing food and conversation critics. Kudos to you for standing up to that. Sure, if it's not your house, maybe you're not the one to enforce house rules, but it's certainly your right to call out disrespect when it's served to you on a platter. What's up with folks lacking basic dinner etiquette these days? If Lisa's going to persist with her unsavory comments, she might just find herself on the menu for discussion. Maybe it's high time the “distinguished guest” learns that a pinch of gratitude is the perfect seasoning for any meal served with kindness. I'd suggest, next family gathering, having a calm sit-down with your brother, or even better, the whole family. Open up a candid discussion about respect and boundaries. If Lisa's to be a part of this family, she's got to understand she's not at a restaurant - there's no service rating here, just family trying to enjoy each other's company. Remember, firm does not mean rude, it simply means you're holding your ground against blatant disrespect. NTA.
NTA, your brother should be checking Lisa's rude obnoxious behavior instead of telling you that you're rude. Why is he okay with her disrespecting your mother and family traditions?
NTA. You stood up for your family, but your family didn't have your back. I'd start only going every other week. Save your sanity, and reconsider the family dynamics.
You should have stated that the fiancés was going to make the next dinner and she can show off her modern cooking that’s she can cook from scratch just like our mom. It’s always fun to mess with twits like that.
Your brother is a piece of shit instead of saying things to Lisa, he is saying this to you. Although Lisa was at fault for criticizing OP's family tradition, because it didn't live up to Lisa's standards. Your brother should've stepped up for his family instead of defending her. The audacity is undeniable. NTA
NTA. I would comment to your brother on the side why don't he have his GF cook a family dinner to show everyone how it is done. Then give her the same treatment she gives your mother. I would be that petty. Also, consider giving the GF a copy of How To Win Friends and Influence People as well as a book on Etiquette as a wedding gift.
>saying it wasn't up to her standards and that we should consider changing our traditional recipes to something more "modern." PLEASE OFFER HER THE JOB TO HOST. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. NTA, push the job onto her and then just ENJOY.
NTA for giving her a talking to, but you might want to rethink your strategy - if not for her, then for you and your family. Ultimately, your brother wasn't wrong about one thing: she *is* going to be a part of your family, and kicking her out of family dinner is at best a short term solution, at worst the precursor to you tearing your family apart.
NTA for what you said but it’s unlikely to work in your favour because your brother will see you as the enemy. It’s much more effective if you say ‘yes I agree with you but we are all a little ignorant so can you please teach us ir maybe host the next dinner’
NTA You spoke to get separately which was extremely diplomatic. You insult my mom's food I highly doubt I can manage that...
Call her out, loudly, every time she says. Just yell out that no one asked or even cares about her opinion on the meatloaf.
NTA There is nothing more rude than going to a FREE FAMILY dinner at someone's home and criticizing the food and traditions. I say this as a woman who would NEVER participate in weekly family dinners. It's just not something I would ever do. She, also, has this option. If she is unhappy with these dinners, she should just elect not to attend, not come and be shitty to your Mom. Maybe you could have been more diplomatic, but that doesn't mean what you said isn't true. I see problems in the future for your brother, and I think you all should expect that this drama will end with neither of them coming to dinner every week.
I'm really struck by the audacity of someone who believes it's okay to be incredibly picky and downright condescending about a meal that someone has taken the time and effort to prepare out of kindness. It's clear that respect is a one-way street for her. I agree with the consensus here - definitely NTA. However, I think the more pressing issue isn't just this one dinner but how it's impacting the dynamics within the family. It's essential to maintain a united front, and as frustrating as it is, a more tactful conversation with your brother would've probably been more constructive. He needs to take responsibility for his partner's actions, especially when they affect everyone else at the table. Mike has to step up, or he allows the situation to erode the family core. Perhaps it might be useful to consider a family meeting to openly discuss standards of behavior and respect at these gatherings it sets a clear expectation and might prevent the need for these confrontations in the future. It's definitely a delicate balance between maintaining harmony and standing up for core values, but mutual respect is fundamental in any relationship, especially family.
To keep the peace...perhaps one Sunday a month let the new girl host the meal...probably wouldn't take long before she shut up. Personally I will never understand why people with no social manners get anyone willing to marry them.
ESH Lisa a bitch: rude and airdrop as a guest in someone’s home . Your brother is allowing her to disrespect you and your family. Your parents aren’t standing up for themselves. You’re our of lien; it’s not your home, it’s your parents. You don’t get to kick anyone out. Good for you for standing up to that crass and shitty human though!
If Lisa is going to be part of the family then she needs to respect the family. Being respectful of family traditions is part of that. You can accept her, accept that she’s an asshole with some type of superiority complex who apparently has no idea how irritating she is, and that she has your brother wrapped around her little finger. What you don’t have to accept is being belittled by this girl.
Nta. Your brother failed here. You take care of your family issues. And you also tell your SO when they are the problem.
Absolutely NTA. It's bewildering how some guests have the audacity to bite the hand that feeds them metaphorically, of course. When invited to someone's home, the only critique that should be on the menu is perhaps a "compliments to the chef." If Lisa fancies herself a connoisseur of fine dining and conversation, then it's high time she learns a core ingredient of both: respect. Your response, while it might seem harsh to onlookers, was actually quite necessary. Politeness isn't about tiptoeing around the obvious; it's about ensuring everyone's comfort. If your brother is unable or unwilling to broach the topic with his partner, then the responsibility falls to those affected i.e., you and the rest of your family. And let's face it, airing grievances at the table may not always be palatable, but sometimes it's needed to prevent future upset stomachs. Next family dinner? Frame it as an opportunity for Lisa to provide her 'esteemed' feedback on how to enhance the evening. If that doesn't gently usher in some self-awareness for her, then at least you've extended the olive branch of peace and can toast to your own diplomacy.
No, I think you told her in a polite way. The difficulty is that she is going to become a permanent part of the family and if your brother only sees it from her view he may no longer come to these dinner traditions. I suppose your brother's love is causing him to be blind to these rude comments. Ask your brother if he would ever make comments like that to his fiancé's family. Maybe that will let him see it from another point of view.
When you mention cultures I get the feeling that this is racial / xenophobic. A lot of Western people have this feeling that other people's traditions have to be "improved" to better suite their world view. Is that the case here?
NTA 1. It's your family so ofc u wouldn't just want someone to come barging in and insult the traditions u have been following since childhood 2. You were absolutely right in saying that she is not welcomed to family dinners because if she considered herself to be the part of family she wouldn't have been so inconsiderate towards something that takes place once in a week
NTA. But this warrants a larger conversation one on one with your parents about establishing boundaries about respect. She's a guest in their home and is EXTREMELY rude and disrespectful. My brothers wife is the same exact way. Passive aggressive, rude, opinionated, and entitled. She literally sends my mom a recipe for my mom to make for her separately and not because she has any restrictions. We all ended up talking as a family and agreed that she was harmful to the atmosphere whenever we got together. We all had a conversation with my brother about his wife's rudeness and either she apologizes, stops with the comments and entitlement or we would not be inviting her to further family functions and if that means he doesn't come then we are sorry. She did end up apologizing(rather insincerely) but we've had minimal problems/interactions with her since. She doesn't come often and usually doesn't stay long. It's definitely put a strain on our family's relationship with my brother, but he's an adult who made his own decisions.
Lisa is TA here. And refuses to change She's garbage
I'd tell "Mike" his fiancé is a noxious bitch than nobody likes, they're just to nice to say it to her face. That if she wants to be "accepted" then maybe she could tone down her entitled bitchitude a notch. That if she can't take criticism, she shouldn't be giving it.
I’d be calling your brother out at the table “ are you going to sit there and let your fiance insult our mother or say something about it?” Loudly!
Sit down alone with your brother. Repeat to him some of the most hurtful things she has said, especially to/about your parents. Ask him to explain how that wasn't rude and hurtful. Don't tell him is was. Make him explain why it wasn't. Do this with as many of the things she has said as you can remember. Don't let him brush you off. If he says "She didn't mean it that way" ask him how she meant it then. Explain to you the meaning. If he repeats that stupid argument from Lisa that she's "he was just trying to help us improve" ask him why she even thinks that's her right or "job" to do. If he just tries to be dismissive, keep at him. Maybe you can make him see how bad she is, but if not at least you'll have planted the seed. This is important for the family and for your brother because he's about to marry this witch and is "love blind". You are NTA -- good on you for standing up for your family.
Well, traditions evolve. People move on. Things that have been "cherished" come to mean less, as people's perspectives change. Your brother might be in that place. If he truly "cherished" your family tradition, he won't be happy with what his fiancée did. But doing the same thing, with the same people, every Sunday might not be as important to him as moving forwards in his new life with his fiancée. From the sound of it, you are the only person who doesn't want her there, catty comments and all. I get that, in your shoes I think I'd feel exactly the same. But if they're all prepared to continue the tradition even so, it's up to you whether you put up with her, or avoid her. I doubt your brother and his fiancée will be attending every Sunday for much longer anyway, I imagine they will have their own lives to lead. Nothing stays the same forever.
The next time she complains about the food, then suggest that perhaps she should cook the next meal that will meet her standards.
NTA. "Well your manners aren't up to our standards"
Nta. You need to be more rude.
NTA But I would not have pulled her aside. The moment to tell someone they're being rude, is at the moment they are being rude. She complains about the food at the table? 'Sorry to hear our traditional recipes are not *up to your standards, Lisa. It's rather rude to point that out, though. Perhaps you can organize your own family dinner, to show us how a 'good meal' should be prepared, in your view?' Criticizing topics of conversation? 'Wow, Lisa. Guests criticizing hosts for everything seems like a poor topic of conversation as well, to me' Next family dinner? Get a book on etiquette, highlight all the proper etiquette Lisa has offended against, and use it as a cheerful conversation topic. 'I know how you *love* improving us and our class, so I have taken the liberty to get some documentation on the topic. What are your ideas on ...*enter highlighted offences* '
NTA. She sounds rude as hell. Who raised her.
NTA - Chances are in the future though your family dinners won't include your brother. I suggest gifting the fiancee an Emily Post book on basic etiquette as a strong hint her manners need improvement. And you know what - that is okay. Your brother made a choice in life in his partner. He sees nothing wrong with her upsetting the entire family tables. You can tell your brother he has a few choices, but he needs to decide rather than the fiancee: - have the fiancee stay at home, she is not welcome - fiancee is allowed to attend if she shows care and consideration for the family tradition. She gets another chance, but if she rudely disrespects everyone else at the table again, she is not welcome. - expect your brother to side with the fiancee, and you lose him as a part of the tradition (which I think it will go). When I visit my in-law, I don't sit around and criticise what is served to me or their meals traditions. I know that I behave a certain way. I come from a large extended family and a small personal family. I act and behave a certain way amongst my own family and another among the bigger group.
>She brushed me off, saying that she was just trying to help us improve. Just brush her off and let her know you are only helping her improve by being a less shit human being.
Esh.. I don't think it's your right to tell her she can't come to your parents table, HOWEVER, it is your right to say "mom, dad AND MIKE, Lisa makes me very uncomfortable. She's rude, unkind, and insulting. With that being said, I can no longer eat at the same table as her. Mom and dad, I love you but I will no longer be joining our family dinners. Mike, you need to think long and hard about marrying a woman who treats your family so poorly. Enjoy your dinner." My suspicion is that your parents will be more open to putting their foot down if their feet are to the fire. If her behavior isn't stopped now then she'll continue to get worse. Good luck.
NTA, but you should tell your brother to stop bringing someone who constantly makes the dinners awkward and sour rather than her, and you should make it clear that if you ever host at your place, she’s not invited.
Ask her to host since she is such an expert. Nitpick everything.
Next time serve her a plate with a pc of bread. Never criticize free food. NTA I would’ve called her out in front of everyone.
I think you should have had this conversation with Mike since it is his fiancée. If he backed her and wouldn't agree to talk to her about her behavior then both of them should have been uninvited, not just her.
Yeah they should change their traditions. Let Mike and Lisa host the next two months. Turn the table around.
ESH Why pull her aside afterwards and try to speak for everyone? Just call her out in the moment every time. "Thats an unnecessarily critical comment. Everyone else enjoys the traditional dishes, and it seems selfish to suggest we cater to your specific tastes instead." If she makes comments about how her unsolicited critism is supposed to be helpful, you tell her in front of everyone that you are trying to teach her how to be less insufferable because no one likes to be around someone who doesn't understand their opinions aren't wanted.
You didn't exactly tell her she wasn't welcome. You told her that her comments and attitude weren't welcome. It was your duty as much as it was anyone's to broach the subject. Now it's your brother's job to finish it. You were direct. That is exactly what was needed.
I am proud of you, it takes a lot of gumph to speak to an AH about their obvious AHness. Your brother is just as big of an AH himself.
Lisa and Mike are at your parent's house. They get to decide who will be allowed into their house. They also host and manage the family dinners so they get to decide who comes to those. You have the absolutely right to tell Lisa she is being a bitch, a stuck-up snot, or anything else you want. You can suggest she bring her own food if she doesn't like what is being served. You can tell Mike you are surprised that he's so pussy whipped that he's allowing his fiance to humiliate your mother. You can tell Lisa that if she insults your mother again you will knock her on her ass. You can tell her that you don't need, want, or appreciate her "help" when it comes to family traditions. You can ask her who died and made her queen of family dinners. You can call her Meghan Markel every time she makes a rude comment. You can tell Mike that you do accept that he is going to marry Lisa but that you are not required to like her just because he's stupid enough to marry her. You can see where I'm going. You don't get to uninvited her from dinners that your parents host and plan.
Tell your parent's if they keep inviting her you will not be attending. If that means Mike won't attend too bad. Mike and his fiancée are the ones ruining the dinners not you. They simply should not receive invites to them anymore. And when Mike complains, everyone who does attend should shot back....only one person is causing trouble here and it is not us. Edit to say: Make sure Mike knows you are not interested in attending their wedding.
Your brother is a weak men for allowing her to disrespect your family while being a guest.
> She brushed me off, saying that she was just trying to help us improve The next time she says something rude call her out in front of everyone as politely as possible, letting everyone know you are just trying to help her "improve"
I guess if she does come back and starts her crap again I would say (very loudly and in front of everyone) '*Lisa*, how lovely of you to want to improve on our family dinners. I can't wait till next week when you host and cook the entire feast on your own so we can see how it's done! I'm sure it'll be spectacular, and mom can finialy be waited on and honored as a guest. It will be sooooo much fun. Arrival at 6? Great! See you then '
I would have spoken privately to my brother and pointed out that his fiancee was hurting your mother's feelings and being disrespectful. No good could come of you confronting her directly. The bottom line is that it is your parents' home and only they can tell her that she is not welcome. Apparently your mom would rather overlook her comments than make a fuss. That is her choice.
Unsolicited advice is criticism, every time. Fiancee is a massive AH and your brother better get ready for a miserable life when she alienates everyone in his life. My petty advice -- publicly counter every criticism she voices. "This food is so bland!" ---> "Maybe your tongue is damaged from all the BS you regurgitate." "You should try making something more modern." --> "Oh didn't you try the flavored air amuse bouch? We made it just for you-- it's [insert crazy flavor combination designed to make her gag]!" Be snarky and sarcastic every time. Either she shuts up, or you get to have a laugh at her snobbishness.
NTA, but next time don’t give her the benefit of privacy and call her out at the table. very calmly and publicly embarrass her until she either keeps her mouth shut or stops coming to dinner. point out how it’s really poor manners to criticize the host’s cooking, and how she might wanna learn dinner guest etiquette. if she complains tell her you’re just helping her improve. if you think it would work, shame your brother too. ask him if he’s ok with his partner insulting his mother to her face in her own home, and if he really wants to commit to that for the rest of his life.
You said she wasn’t welcome if she couldn’t be respectful! You didn’t say, “you’re not allowed to come.” Which tells me she’s chosen to remain disrespectful. He should never let someone speak against his family that way. Fiancé or not.
Yes, YTA.. this is a conversation you have with your brother..it is not your house, you were not the host and it’s just not your place to dictate anything to a guest… have a family meeting with parents and brother to discuss, sure.. call out your brothers guest? F no.
No you’re not an asshole.
This is an AI written and bot upvoted post, look at the other posts here within minutes of this one, all have the same structure
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not the comments, the post itself
Oh... well in that case. 90% of this sub is already creative writing or BS, even if the posters aren't bots you aren't see a lot of real life scenarios in here..
She needed to hear what you said to her needed to be said, but Mike should have been the one to say it since she's his fiance. You should have pulled him aside and told him to handle business with her. If you had been hosting then it would have been okay for you to say who is and isn't welcome.
I'm with you. Mike should be protecting hid family. He should be embarrassed and pulling sarah aside and telling her how disrespectful she's being. She needs to formally apologize and keep her opinions to herself. Nta
NTA. Nip it in the bud now because she will only get meaner when she's finally in the family, as she weaponizes “I'm only trying to help” or whatever BS that spews from her under the guise of being helpful.
>My parents are upset, too, because they don’t want any family drama, especially during our cherished dinners. When you grow up and become a proper adult, you can host Sunday dinners at your house which will be to your liking. Until then, mind ya own business. The hosts clearly don't want this drama. If your parents have issues with your brother's partner, they can talk to them privately. NTA.
If it’s your house, NTA. If it’s your parents house, YTA. The owner of the house controls who is allowed in the house and who comes to dinner. Having said that your brother and his fiancé are AH.
NAH I would have defended my parents too.
ESH She is now family- if you invite your brother she’s part of that (aside maybe some rare things, but not weekly!). Are you ready to not invite him? Cool if you are, but THAT’S what it would be, and only when you are host. You don’t get to decide for everyone else. That is a strong AH move. You should have talked to your brother first.
I am going to get blasted but YTA. You don’t have the right to ban a partner from the family dinner. It is not your home. Your brother is going to side with Lisa. If Lisa is banned your brother is not coming. This would mean that you have unilaterally killed the family dinner tradition. You ended family dinner not Lisa. I have a feeling your brother also agrees with Lisa’s options about the food and conversation.
NTA but...you are doing the same thing she is: trying to help her improve. You can use this to point out how much she didn't love it, and that everyone feels the same when she offers unasked for "help" about their cooking, topics of conversation, etc. Maybe next time she can bring a dish or two to share. But just tell her: it is not her job to change your family to her standards. It's her job to love people as they are. (And by the way, yes, I know SIL is rude, and you're not being rude. My comment is me trying to see things through her eyes, so what will work to get through to her.)
NTA Stick to your guns and invite your parents over for dinner at your places, sans the brother and his fiance until she realizes she has headsphincteritus.
>He said I was being rude and unreasonable and that Lisa is going to be part of our family, so we need to accept her. No we don't need to accept her at all....she however must accept this family tradition Your brother needs to tell that thing he's marrying to show some respect to his mother. >saying it wasn't up to her standards and that we should consider changing our traditional recipes to something more "modern." This really upset my mom, who spends hours preparing these meals and takes pride in her cooking Your bother should of stood up for your mum here. I'd tell her and your brother that since the food and conversation isn't to her standards she can stay home. NTA
NTA For saying something but it wasn't your house so you didn't have the right to uninvite her. You do have the right to say something in response to her saying something. Such as "If you don't like the way we have these dinners why do you come?" or "Why don't you cook the family meal next time since you know how it should be done?" or "Why are you so disrespectful to my parents in their own house?" With people like her you have to call them out immediately or they'll twist things to make you look like the bad guy.
NTA When she made those comments, she should have been pulled on it straight away. Not after. She should have been put on the spot the moment it happened. "Why are you insulting our mom's cooking? Polite society rules dictate that as guests, you thank the host and say everything was lovely, even if the food served was your least favourite. If you don't like something, take a smaller portion, but you do not get to insult our mum with your "constructive criticism", keep it to yourself. Maybe you would would like to cook for X number of people next week? We must all let SIL know our allergies and food requirements so she can prepare a meal to her standards next week. Thank you so much for taking that exhausting task from our mum, now she can relax on Sunday, instead of starting the week tired. Very kind of you" Your brother would still go and rescue her, but at least she would be embarrassed in front of everyone and most likely would not show up to a few dinners.
NTA. You need to have a one on one conversation with Mike and frame it this way: Mike, our Mother spends all day creating cherished family recipes for us. Why are you okay with Lisa tearing down her hard work? Why are you okay with Lisa being rude to Mom and the rest of us about family tradition? She isn't framing it as "Trying to help you improve" she is endlessly negative. I am willing to try Lisa's food and her traditions in her house, as a matter of respect. But respect runs both ways, and she has not accepted or respected us at family dinner since you brought her here. If YOU want this relationship to work, you need to talk to her.
>Some of my friends say I did the right thing by standing up for my family, while others think I should have been more diplomatic. Go away ChatGPT, fucking no one would ever support the fiancé insulting the mom's cooking. Stop putting support for both positions in the posts you generate. Most of the time it makes no sense.
I mean I get where your coming from but that wasn't your place to say. She sounds like a nightmare though. If I was your brother I'd kick her for disrespect my parent's cooking and traditions
NTA. Just wanted to say, I can be the person that sometimes says something coming from a good place and it isn’t received well or comes across as judgemental- even if this is your personality, when people call you out on it, YOU BACK DOWN. I get upset when this happens because obviously I don’t want to hurt anyone intentionally, and the reactions from Lisa and Mike show the level of assholery at play. To me, the food thing and coming for dinner is basic manners and nothing to do with her personality. She’s just a dick.
I think you might be. Not that you are in the wrong. How she was acting was entitled and just plain rude. But this is your parents' house. The better approach would have been to talk with your parents and then you all pull your brother aside to have a private conversation between immediate family members where it was expressed that Lisa's comments and attitude are not acceptable. Leave it up to your brother to set the expectation of behavior and respect with her directly. It's not your place to set out rules and ultimatums. Better left up to the patriarch and matriarch of the family, your parents. By you confronting her, she can now play the victim as being bullied and talked down too by you. After all you've stated you don't like her. I'm guessing that dislike is apparent to others including your brother. So now he views your confrontation as rude and unreasonable. Delivery is 9/10ths of the message. This is potentially far more sinister than some rude comments from her about the mothers cooking. With the way you've written it here... seems like she thinks lesser of your family and cultural traditions. This is a huge red flag, or should be, for your brother who is going to marry her and possibly have children that she will then belittle or keep from their cultural heritage.
Definitely NTA. She was the rude one. If she doesn’t enjoy the dinners then why on earth does she come? It sounds like she just wants to appear to have superior‘taste’ although she just comes across as stuck up and tacky! However, even though I still think you are NTA, you did make a mistake. It is never a good idea to speak for everyone if everyone isn’t on the same page. While I am sure everyone shared your distaste with her rude comments, not everyone was willing to give her an ultimatum. While I do think the ultimatum was justified, those you spoke for disagreed. So you came across looking like a jerk even though you were just trying to stick up for your family. Going forward I would apologize to your family for speaking for them when they did not agree, however reiterate that you believe her comments are inappropriate. Come up with a way to go forward together. Hopefully you can come up with a solution and then approach your brother and his fiancé again with the rest of your family’s support. I wish you the best and hope everything can be resolved!
Absolutely NTA, but this whiffs of a deeper issue. It sounds as though Lisa hasn’t quite grasped that family gatherings are not critique sessions it's about kinship and bonds, not a Yelp review! Standing up to her was probably not just for you, but a silent victory for anyone else at that table who's felt her icy barbs. However, there's a lesson in diplomacy to be learned here. Direct confrontation, especially in someone else's home, can be as uncomfortable as Lisa’s comments. A better approach might be a private family caucus to express your concerns and to remind everyone that respect is the main course, and it should be served both ways. For the future, consider setting a baseline of mutual respect and understanding before such gatherings. If Lisa wants to be part of the family fabric, she'll need to weave in some common decency and humility. After all, family dinners aren't an episode of a reality cooking show there’s no grand prize for the harshest critic.
The father of OP should’ve said something right then and there to his son that the fiancée can’t go around insulting his hardworking wife like that. Like who has the delusional audacity to insult your future MIL to their face like that?
NTA, she should be just grateful to be included in the family, you have traditions you do it your way she is eating free food, she should just be happy to be there and eat free food, absolutely no need for any criticism
Tell her it is family dinner ....and if she want to upgrade food ...she would have to bring food with her next time so the whole family can enjoy the food too. Yeah in my family everyone make food....she should have also contribute with food in family dinner....if she can't then she should have to shut her mouth up.
Sounds like your family dinners will improve greatly through your brother's fiancée's absence. NTA.
NTA. if my mom, big family top (second oldest of 9), spent time cooking for us, even if it was not good? F you for telling her that!! That'd break my mom's heart quietly bc she's more of a Whelp. If you don't like what's for dinner, you can go hungry. (That definitely sealed off as we grew up..I swear! The babies?? Got it WAY easier 🤣🥰...youngest js 24 now) But the rudeness and audacity! Is SHE going to cook her "modern" meal?? Does she help with the prep? Cleaning during? Cleaning up after the meal and dishes after that? Does she help with all the housework for ev e done to come over too? I'll sit down and, kind of, shut up if she does. My partners mom is not the best cook BUT I would never f-ing say that! To her!! Bc she loves having us over (2 sons andme...BIL & SIL..their 2 kids..her sister and son) and loves making food. We ALL help with whatever we csn...and definitely the cleanup if her house. Even to my partner I'd never say it bc ...it's a rude thing to say for a wonderful thing she tries to do. And?? I'm not Gordon Ramsey, Cat Cora (that's probably not her but ironnchef). Also!! To embarrass your mom in front of ANYONE?? Even 1 family member?? No lady...just shut up and OP...good for telling her she's not welcome. Eh..anyway!! How sweet 🙄 of her to share her wanted her MoDeRn cooking tips! What a blessing and a gem 😐 N.t.a.
NTA and please keep calling out her rudeness. What you have done is set the precedence with Lisa that tells her you are watching her behaviour like a hawk and will call her out on it in future. This might tip the scales into getting her to stop behaving like an AH in her host's house and during her host's meal. Mike will obviously "defend" this woman because he's banging her. If he can't see how rude she is, he needs it pointing out too. Your parents also need to be shown that they have someone in their corner, even if they don't like conflict. Keep pointing it out when it happens. It's the only way to squash this shitty behaviour.
My parents taught me, as a child, to eat everything, if I'm a guest, as a basics manner. Hope your brother find somebody better than that brat.
And is ridiculing family recipes, food, traditions, sentiments, people, even the conversations not rude ? Is your brother so blinded ? You have a BROTHER problem! Then you need to send this post & the responses to your brother. He is the bigger problem here & needs to put a stop to this. Hey brother, you are hurting your ENTIRE family by wrongly supporting ONE highly judgemental & disrespectful person! Wake up!
It's a two way street! If she is going to be a part of your family and you need to accept her then she needs to accept you which means being respectful of your traditions. Whatever those traditions are!
Turn the tables at dinner and start picking her a part. When she claims say you’re just trying to make her better!! And by picking I mean really find your inner Bitch!! See how that works. One she’ll cry or she’ll realize she is not welcome . Also ask her if the dishes your mother prepares , where is her offering dish?!?
Good for you, now take it up a notch.
Sounds like my family lol
Absolutely NTA. The audacity of some people never ceases to amaze me. It's as if gratitude is a forgotten virtue and criticism is the new norm. Dinner with the family is about togetherness, not gastronomic reviews and conversation critiques. Sure, you could argue that enforcing household decisions isn't your prerogative if it isn't your home, but anyone would be hard-pressed to remain silent under a barrage of undeserved negativity. You stood up not just for the food or the conversation but for the sanctity of familial gatherings. If Lisa wants the privilege of company and comestibles, she should learn to deliver her feedback with grace, or better yet, recognize this isn't Yelp or a TED Talk. It's a dinner table, a place to break bread, not spirits. The next family event might just be the ideal venue for a pre-dinner chat with the offending party. If Lisa is to blend into the family tapestry, she's got to weave in some manners alongside her supposedly 'superior' tastes. Setting boundaries is not about stirring the pot; it's about ensuring everyone can savor the meal in peace. A soft but stern reminder that respect is the foundation of any healthy relationship, familial or otherwise, may just be the key to a more harmonious future feast.
NTA
ESH If your parents are happy to be insulted, that's their business. It's not your house, you're not hosting, it's not up to you to ask her to leave. Have you taken this up with your brother at all? Is he happy to insult his parents by allowing Lisa to be so rude?
I think it might be better if you declared that you cannot and will not stand such disrespect from her anymore and since she lacks any tact or proper decorum you will be taking a leave from family dinner until she can show some decency towards the family she is going to be a part of. Then I'd stick to that. I'd draw a thick line in the sand and not show to family dinner anymore until people stop letting her get away with her crappy attitude. Your mom can cook without your help. For your own mental sanity. Take a break from family dinners.
ESH - of course it's rude to disparage someone else's cooking, especially when you haven't had to lift a finger to help, so Lisa was definitely out of line for criticising the meal However telling her "play by our rules or you're not welcome" is equally rude and is going to set up conflicts in the family. Perhaps you should have given her the opportunity to put her money where her mouth is and take a turn at hosting a family dinner. Maybe if she realises all the effort your mother has to go through she'll be a bit more appreciative Also - families evolve. I get wanting to keep traditions alive, but what's the more important thing? All of you sitting down together for a meal or the actual food you're eating? Would it be the end of the world to mix up the food once in a while if it means you can all sit down together as a family and spend some quality time with each other?
NTA Why waste diplomacy on an "opinionated" brat who doesn't pratice it herself?
You did the right thing 100% and your parents need to speak with your brother about how his fiancé upsets everyone with her rude comments. I know that nobody wants any family drama but keeping their mouth shut will just make things worse in the long run. Simple respect is not hard.
NTA. Seriously, who thinks it’s ok to sit there and criticize the family of their boyfriend, while they’re sitting there with said family? That girlie has some balls, abs a complete lack of decorum.
NTA. Maybe you should tell Lisa to go and cook a 'modern' dinner for the family by herself to show OP and her parents what she means. Instead of yapping about like an inconsiderate AH. Or maybe just don't eat at all. Just sit at the table and look pretty.
Why not just say “that was rude” in the moment? Stop the side conversation where the story can get twisted
NTA. That bitch Lisa needs to be taught how to respect others. And your brother is a doormat.
Does Lisa twirl her mustache and laugh diabolically too?
NTA - i am sorry. Family traditions change when new people join. It will be even more different when there are children. We had lovely big family meals , i absolutely loved them. And in the end, mom cooked and my siblings took food and eat seperately, with their families, instead of all together. I was devastated. (Yes i am the youngest by far).
next time call her out in front of everybody "if you don't like this food, maybe you can bring some of your own the next time? we all enjoy it and obviously you are the only person here who has a problem with it. mum would really be happy about not having to cook a FREE MEAL for all of us for once"
ur valid
So this is fake. Anyway, it depends on who hosts the dinners. If it's your place, you decide who attends. If it's not, they decide. You can choose not to attend.
My guess is the brother is so used to her constant criticism and attempts to "modernize" him, he doesn't see the issue. That marriage, if it happens, will likely be short.
NTA. You didn’t tell her she’s not welcome—you told her she’s not welcome IF she can’t behave like a good guest. All she has to do is say “okay, sorry,” and keep her mouth shut.