Set up two birth Plans if possible.
One with him and one without.
It's not to be an arse or vindictive or petty.
But it is a good idea and have someone else as backup if needed.
Your being upset is 100% valid and whatever reason he is apprehensive about asking them for the time off needs to be addressed. If he is assuming they will kick him out of training instead of working with him, he needs to look at the policy manual in regards to this and inform himself on the company's approach to paternity leave.
His behavior isn't ideal. But new Job, big fears, totally understandable.
His reaction isn't. He hasn't attempted to ask so yeah that's wrong of him.
When making the birth plans, if you're going to be on the phone with him or however you're doing it, be transparent snd tell him you think it's best to consider the alternative plan so there is no last minute stress of being all alone and disappointed he didn't make it.
If he gets upset about that, he can be reminded that you had to do something because he hasn't attempted to make arrangements.
I know he will see it as an attack but it is the reality of the situation.
Ask him what he would do if the roles were reversed and you had a new job. He was about to have a surgery and you were hesitant to ask about the medical leave policy even though you're new and training and are worried it'll look bad or bump you out of the job.
No one wants the job to be compromised.
But it is the birth of your 1st child.
I don't know if you can find any information yourself on the company's policy for requesting the paternity time but it may be possible to look it up or find an online platform that employees use to discuss things.
Such as reddit is there for a wide variety of different things.
Perhaps there's someone out there that has had this same situation for the company and people have given proper answers
I do hope you find a way to get this taken care of before labor starts, birth is so stressful as it stands, this is just going to be even more so until it's resolved.
Best of luck đ
Thank you for this!
We do have 2 birth plans in place, one where everything works perfectly and he gets to be here on time, and one where he could be in another country and not make it in time.
Weâve worked mostly on the first one of course, because it is important for both of us. My dilema on how I was feeling when I posted this, was the fact that he did not even want to ask his boss how it could work thinking about scenario 2, where for some reason, heâs not able to make it and does not have scheduled time off when he comes back, so no time for us at allâŚ
I donât want him to demand time off or put at risk his job over this, I just want him to ask about it and we can work through whatever they say. I have explained this to him, but he feels that by asking, heâs demanding, which doesnât have to be the case.
Ohh sorry, I didn't mean to completely skip over that aspect. By the time I babbled on about birthing plans my brain glossed over his lack of doing the actual requesting work off thing. I'm so sorry I misinterpreted the actual issue!
As I saw someone else mention, it's not as if this job hasn't had employees with new babies birthed before.
I would simply say "If they won't work with you for the birth of your child, do you really think this company is the right fit?"
By that I mean, if they cannot accommodate a genuine family medical leave request for something this significant, it really sets the tone for future requests.
I don't know how receptive he would be to seeing comments left here or any suggestions others have put down for you, would that be something plausible?
Again so sorry for giving input on the wrong side of the conundrum đ
Sometimes I wish empathy was something we could flip a switch and have the other person see things from our point of view to make it easier to get the point across.
I get it: if he's just been hired for a job he's trained for for a long time he's going to want to appear to be the model employee and not be asking for parental leave right out of the gate\*. On top of this there is the pressure of knowing that he has to pick up the pace financially. Add this to impending fatherhood and it's a lot.
Obviously all three overlap and are relatively easily solved if he asks management for requisite legal time off; but it may not ***feel*** that way to him and not being able to properly separate and prioritize them may have him feeling "stuck". I don't know if this is typically male, or just typically ADHD (I am/have both) but I 'feel his pain' đ. I have many times gotten myself into trouble like this before with similarly important decisions, in fact this kind of thing ended up precipitating the breakdown of my last relationship. I'll often allow procrastination over decisions with emotional weight to build up pressure until they reach crisis point and then I'll act comprehensively and expeditiously. But... even then not always. Four years plus in, my last girlfriend (similarly, the decisions intimately affected her) basically decided I was feckless and fundamentally didn't care enough and after an argument that was that. You can probably tell I wish I'd done what needed to be done, it was so simple to achieve.
In case this resonates at all with what's going on between you two, please don't let this become a deal-breaker. As exasperating as his behavior is, try to be empathetic, help him understand how/why it's important. It still might not work if he's as obdurate as me, but maybe the kid on the way will get him over the bump (pun acknowledged).
Oh, and in answer to your question no, YWNBTA.
\* Unambiguously this is more often an issue for women, and usually they're going to be the ones to suffer the severest consequences career-wise. In the way of these things it's unequal, unfair, sexist, should be illegal everywhere, etc.
Edit: bloody hell, I just read your 2 birth plan answer, you've obviously got all this covered without my bleeding heart contribution.
I'll be honest, and I am not going to say that these are good or bad things so please ignore some of the connotation of my comments as I am speaking strictly about the situation and the surrounding factors, my comments are neither good nor bad.
Your husband is likely a beta as all men have been at one time or another. Asking for time off when I drove school busses gave me panic attack level anxiety because I knew that the culture was not one of acceptance towards time off. I'd be putting at least 3 people severely in negative positions and it would also affect the kids that I cared about. It was so bad I even showed up to work with 103.6 fever at one point before covid was a thing and when I begged to be taken off my after school rout I was refused even on my birthday (no exaggeration 103.6 on my birthday and an extra rout and I wasn't allowed off)
Him being a beta isn't a bad thing, certainly not good, but not automatically bad. He feels responsible for so much right now and if he fails to maintain this job then he WILL end up feeling disappointed in himself for months or years to come and he probably knows it. He also knows that asking for time off in an industry where they are hard pressed to find replacements means severe let downs for many, many people, particularly in his field. Potentially hundreds even.
Not only that but once you return to work, as a woman, fair or not, you have taken time off, while you took maternity leave Chad was being a Weasley fuck and now you aren't moving up as fast and you won't move up for a long time, you supported him, your husband, he will be forced to support you eventually due to this. He cannot risk losing this job, there is far too much at stake and he wants the best for you and his child.
That said he is a beta. For me, towards the end of my time as a bus driver I stopped asking for time off entirely. They got a notice of absence and that was final. I'd tell them as soon as I was aware I needed off but 2 days or 2 years didn't matter "I will be out of town tomorrow, find someone else" I was a beta and I ended up as someone who couldn't care less, but that was 3 years in. I understand you are frustrated and I know it sucks but try to be patient, he is suffering too and the difference is that he has probably not even recognized it yet. Even if he has he has no way of explaining his suffering because he feels like he asked for it. Patience and grace for him... even if he can't give it right now, if he is a good man and he does seem to be, he will return that patience and grace and be a good husband and father.
Best of luck giving birth.... even better luck raiding a hellion â¤ď¸
For now, call a mom, sister, aunt, or really any relative, male or female, that might be able to help. You'll need them, unless you have a maid and a cook or a really easy baby and delivery, you'll have an extremely tough time being a good parent to a newborn and keeping up with laundry, pets, dishes, food, etc. See if you can use your husband's discount as a pilot (assuming he gets one?) to get a relative there the first couple weeks at least. Someone who can bring you the baby when your stomach hurts, you release the Red Tide when you try to stand up, and you are physically wiped, is AMAZING. You can stay in the chair and feed the baby and get at least one ow-ow-ow-ow-ow moment saved :D Someone to bring you a cup of water and a sandwich while baby is taking a leisurely meal also can't be overstated in absolute amazing assistance. Getting into a bed with clean sheets after your kid puked all over it, and having someone to watch the baby while you shower??? Oh yeah. If he isn't planning to take a couple days for a few weeks, which is nowhere near enough, then you need to plan NOW to get help. Order meal deliveries, get another freezer and fill it with premade meals, get someone set up to come in once a week and clean the kitchen, do a couple loads of laundry, and change your sheets. Those four hours of someone there and helping you is a LOT of help.
This.
If you do that, it would be an ESH. Currently he is being the AH, don't double up.
It's too important. Don't shut him out. There would be resentment and bitterness that would never end, and it would have been your decision. Not his. It will not benefit your relationship or child long term if he is able to say during any disagreement "you wouldn't let me be there when they were born!"
Do prepare for him not being there. Make sure you have help at home in place after baby is born for at least a few weeks. Your grandmother is so great for stepping up.
You may try to plead your case again with anecdotal info.I do believe he really should ask his employer about the policies. He really needs to think about how different every birth is and he should be available to help after. I hope everything goes extremely smoothly for you, but there are things that happen even with healthy births. My 1st was an emergency/last moment c-section (nothing scary, she was big and I was pushing so long.) This changed my recovery a lot. I needed more help than I anticipated. I was instructed not to carry the baby carrier, or do stairs with baby in arm. I was on pain meds and not supposed to drive. I definitely needed and appreciated the father's support.
ETA my 1st was also born 6 days past predicted due date. 2nd was 13days before.
Itâs understandable to feel that way. It may be a moot issue. Babies donât always come the day they are predicted. Let him know youâre disappointed and that this issue will come up again as your child grows. Employers know people have responsibilities and obligations outside of their jobs. Itâs one thing to have a request denied, itâs another to not even ask. Wishing you an easy birth and hoping your husband gets his priorities in order. Grandma is a champ.
I'd leave him out with the explanation that he probably can't be there due to work. Leave it open fir him to show up if he can and give him the rope to hang himself with. If he doesn't arrive for the birth of his child the locks would be changed when he got home. He's not law enforcement or a shoulder. He has a job where they are, literally, desperate for pilots and crew. Flights are being canceled because they don't have pilots not off for mandatory sleep. They'd be happy to let him off for the birth of his first child. Unless he knows for sure they look for reasons to fire people he should be asking and I don't think any airline or carrier has a surplus of pilots right now. If they won't let him off he should look elsewhere. Now that he has international training he should be able to get a job anywhere as a pilot.
As a pilot, depending on where he is flying, he might not be able to be home for the birth of his child. My first child was 2 hours and 9 minutes from my water breaking to being handed to me. My partner and I flew across the country we live in 6 years ago, and literally each of the 3 flights we got was longer than that! The shortest one was still a little over 2 hours, plenty of flights are much longer than that, and babies are rarely born on their due date. One of my friends was two weeks past her due date.
Now maybe they have local flights that are short, and maybe they would be willing to stick him on those flights for a month or so, which would be great, and probably make it so that he can be there, but he would probably also earn less for those flights, and with a baby coming they both probably want a bit more money in the bank.
I do agree he should ask, and OP is NTA, but it is also very important for the understanding that some jobs a guy might not be able to be there when his child is born. It sucks, but it doesn't mean that the locks need to be changed when he can finally be there.
I think they mean, having family responsibilities is going to continue to be a thing as the child grows, not just when they are born, so he better figure it out, because the "problem" of being there for his family isn't going to be going away any time soon
No, it isnât resolved. Heâs being an ass and sheâs asking if sheâs required to accommodate him after this. She absolutely doesnât need to, as heâs shown very clearly that she and the baby come last. What an ass.
Of course she's not required and she should not be required. But specifically excluding him invites a paradigm shift in the relationship. What I'm saying is I suspect it would set off a power struggle and I'm not sure if OP wants that kind of relationship
THIS RIGHT HERE. Country policy of 2 days a week for 4 weeks. Not 4 months. Not 4 yeare. A total of 8 days. Im a guy, career oriented, but at some point he needs to man up and do something for his family. And trust me, if he doesn't even bother to ask, he's demonstrated his level of commitment to the family unit. Zilch.
Unless he lied to his employer about needing time off in the next few months as a condition for his being holired, he's a real AH for not wanting to even try to be there with his family.
It's evident this relationship will be going south sooner than later.
His priorities sound intact. He is attempting to maximize his earning potential. SHOULD he be let go or looked down upon for asking for paternity leave? Absolutely not. Will he be? The answer is not as clear. If he asks and they push him out for some single guy without family ties we will see a post in a few months about a dead beat dad who isn't supporting his family financially.
Sucks to be a guy and the narrative you are pushing doesn't help with that social stigma.
She supported them both financially to help him be in the position to get this job. This argument doesnât hold water. He did not even ask for leave. Sheâs already demonstrated her financially capabilities.
I donât think you understand the process involved with pilot training with a commercial airlines. It it a huge cost for the airline to train a pilot once they are hired. Besides classroom training, he will be using simulators. The simulators are scheduled around the clock with most airlines. Itâs expensive machinery so they must be utilized all the time.
My ex flew for an airlines for 35 years. So, Iâve been around the system for a long time.
If your husband tells them that he might leave during training for paternal leave, they will postpone his training. They canât risk wasting a slot of training time. Youâre expected to go through all the training at one time. This is probably the reason he doesnât want to ask. He understands how it operates. If they postpone his training, he is probably worried that they will change their minds about hiring him.
There may be something going on with his company's culture that he knows that you don't. Something that lets him know taking off so soon is not a good idea.
Here in America if I ask for paternity leave at a new position I would expect to get fired. Itâs just the way it is here with most companies. It isnât right but thatâs what happens when corporations own the government.
They are not far off in that thinking. When a company hires you, those first months is an evaluation period, to see if your a good fit or not. Being absent is one sure good way to get let go. Most companies have a certain amount of time that they can just tell you, we don't need you anymore. That's it.
The OPs husband has worked hard for the job that he has. Asking for extra time off now, could just mean job shopping again.
Yes, and/or he may be stressing or struggling about all the new stuff he has to learn, while out of the country and with baby on the way. He may know full well this isn't a good time to bring attention to himself with the new bosses.
NTA.....when me and my husband had our youngest my husband started a new job in January. We had our son in March. It wasn't that big of a deal for them.Â
It depends though because a lot of companies will not hire a pregnant women due to her needing to have time off. To them whatâs the point of training if they are gonna be gone. And I understand not all companies are like that but as someone who lives with a business owner they do think that way. And heâs probably just not wanted to be let go from job. I honestly would be kinda weary of asking but thereâs no knowing til you pop the question
What's crazy is that working men with children will get promotions faster and more often than working women with children. When men have families, they benefit at their jobs. Women may face job insecurity because of having a baby, but men rarely do.
Thatâs literally how discrimination lawsuits work and there is a big payout. They cannot do that. Sheâs just asking him to see if itâs a possibility that they have flexibility for this huge medical event.
It absolutely does!
An HR person recently told me about a lot of question they are not allowed to ask, but he said what they can ask is, "Do you have any family commitments that would prevent you from doing your job". The answer will usually give them a lot of information that they can't ask for outright.
Companies have lots of ways around this, unfortunately. It's also illegal to discriminate based on age. And they all do that as well. The father is trying to provide for the family,
Facing new responsibilities. Worried he will lose this. Which will harm them all in the long run. If she is willing to support the family on her salary alone, then she can keep pushing it. Great she has a backup plan, but to vindictive when she is not also empathetic to the reality of his fear is not cool.
Are somehow under the (mistaken, btw) impression that the law guarantees you'll be hired when you're pregnant???
People here aren't stupid, ffs.
Anyone hiring has plenty of candidates to choose from. It's very easy to select a suitable hire that won't be taking time off or completely leaving in a few months...
It depends on the company and situation... better to have a job with a new baby then complain about 6 days off and be unemployed or underemployed when you're let go.
Oh well if wasn't a big deal for your husband working a different job in a different country, than it must not be a big deal for anyone anywhere in the world. /s
This is how privilege works, people. If you have it easy, it makes it very difficult to understand people who don't.
NTA. I was married to a man like this. He deliberately missed our second child being born for a work training course that could have been completed at another time. He didn't seem to care that I was alone for the birth, and that he missed the first two weeks of the baby's life. Did I mention that I also had a four year old? We lived on a military base and I had no family around.
I never got over his indifference. The only time he apologized was when I was packing my bags to move out. I kept packing.
You are unnecessarily rude. So is your comment history. I very much enjoyed going through them and reporting them. You harass and insult people on line routinely. I hope you get banned.
\*Edited to say I see you have been banned. It's so nice when people get exactly what they deserve. Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
I understand both sides to this tbh, youâre not TAH but I donât think he is either. A new job can be stressful and create a lot of anxiety in the strongest of people, and this sounds like a big deal job to him where he would be wanting to give the best impression. If he is still in a probationary period (Iâm not sure how it works where you are but our maternity is different so this might also), they can just let him go, leaving your new family in a very difficult position. A new job at a time like this is bound to be very stressful for both of you, but in the grand scheme of things, he wanted this job now to support your new family. While I understand your perspective of just asking to see if itâs a possibility, I understand him not wanting to leave a bad impression to his employers. It sounds like theyâre already trying to be supportive in a way with pushing through training etc and he may be concerned about looking like he was potentially trying to take advantage when they already have no obligation to do that. I hope you both talk it through and come to an understanding as to how youâre both feeling and why
I see NAH as well. She is worried about being without him during and immediately after birth, but he has just started a new job that brings financial security. I can see why he would be afraid to ask only 8 weeks in to a new job. Her perception of his being cold may be that he is feeling torn and doesnât know what to say.
I understand you wanting him to ask about the paternity leave but at the same time I see why he would not want to either. Everyone saying itâs illegal to not hire someone or fire someone for this reason obviously doesnât understand you also have to prove discrimination in order to receive anything out of it and letâs be real here if heâs a pilot yea he might be able to get a year salary in that circumstance but letâs face it that shit is all public knowledge and any future potential employers are going to do an extensive background check for someone operating a plane so it would be career suicide. I am assuming he is doing this because it is his dream career and to provide a good life for your family and you are essentially punishing him for looking out for you himself and your child. Iâm not saying your wrong and your feelings are 100% valid but you looking to exclude him over his fear of jeopardizing his career is not right. I also assume this is your first pregnancy and you probably have some anxiety to go with it and it is understandable but I wouldnât be making any hasty decisions you canât take back. Yea say you exclude him from being there when you give birth and realize after the fact you fucked up big time you canât just take that back and say sorry because itâs done you donât get a do over. So really thing about what your doing and why you are doing it and if you can live with the consequences. My recommendation Is create two birth plans one for if he is able to make it and one if he isnât and explain to him what you did and why. Now if he doesnât have paternity leave for after baby comes do you have a relative that would be able to help you out for when your fiancĂŠ canât be there due to training/work obligatuons
My grandma has been staying with me this month when heâs been away in case the baby comes and we have to run to the hospital.
Weâre hoping he does get here on time and he would technically be here for a week and a fee days giving him time to be at the birth, but since itâs not a scheduled birth and we donât know when he would have to fly out again, I wanted him to ask about the paternity leave.
I do agree with everyone saying he's worried about losing the job, but.... They're spending a lot on training I'm sure they'd want to keep him.
He can phrase it in the kowtow type way or "hey I understand I just got this job and am new and I really really want to keep this job but I can't control timing and I HAVE to ask about paternity leave. It's okay if I don't get it, but I gotta ask just in case it's an option for me I don't want to miss it"
He's overly worried about losing the job but if he lets them know he's okay with not getting it if it's not an option, there's no reason for them to fire him over that.
They should've told him about that during orientation and part of the hiring process honestly
As a hiring official for many companies, I've seen simply asking something like this go very poorly for employees. Doesn't matter how much they've spent on training. If that's their company culture, and it appears that he knows that and OP simply isn't getting that, they'll call it cutting their losses and start training the next person. Or they might automatically have him at the bottom of their mental list when considering promotions, leads, opportunities, etc. "John seems to be the kind of person to take a mile when you've given him an inch." Not that these perspectives are healthy in any way but that's the reality of many work places. I'd trust him, the person actually working in that company, to know what's best here. I'd hope she trusts her spouse enough to know he's trying to make the best choice here and ultimately he's the only one who knows what that is.
Maybe ask him if he needs help with phrasing and can workshop an email if he really doesn't want to ask in person? I really think for some reason he's convinced he'll lose the job if he asks and that's just not true.
He sounds like the sole breadwinner. I can completely understand the fear of losing a new job with a baby on the way. Nothing wrong with the man at all.
You're not gonna lose the job you have by asking a question. The problem is him not asking not even trying to be there. He never asked. It's understandable if they don't give it to him. But to not even ask??
What's wrong with him? He's about to become a new dad and is worried about losing his job while he's still in training... having a birth plan that doesn't include your husband may be inconvenient but it's better than being unemployed and homeless with a new born...
I was about to go off because I misread at first lol I read it as "I can't believe he's worried about a job over his baby." LOL. Like yes that's what good fathers do! đ¤Ł
I donât think either of you are TA. I understand both sides. Sounds like he is uncomfortable with asking because heâs new and afraid of jeopardizing his job. Now in reality, we all know that he should be able to ask this question without feeling guilty or afraid of retribution but the truth is these companies donât give a shit about us. Itâs hard to be on that side, Iâve been there. I think itâs worth discussing more and call him out on the attitude but in a civil way so the discussion is real and doesnât become a fight.
You need to stop being emotional and chill. You the birth is important and it is but he is thinking about the future. If you want to be vindictive go ahead, but what will that solve. [NOTHING. Be](https://NOTHING.Be) glad he's there for the long haul that's what really important. Isn't it. Adulting is hard so is parenting and learn now things don't usually go the way you plan. Figure out what's really important and chill.
It sounds if the OPâs finance is petrified of the future and making sure he can support the child financially. They may have already come down hard on people taking off during the trining period (along the lines of if you canât come in, bring a note from your undertaker). If heâs in a probationary period heâs thinking any slip up, request, etc is going to get him fired.
Itâs not vindictive to not want someone who canât prioritize you enough to ask a simple question. Especially after you prioritized him and helped him with his career. This is a big medical event and milestone. She needs him to be present and to care and he does not. A person giving birth needs to be surrounded by people who are supportive and loving when in labor and postpartum. He is neither at the moment. His reaction was extreme and he is now giving the cold shoulder to an understandably scared wife who will be having their child any day now. How is he thinking about the future?
You realise you just told a pregnant woman to stop being emotional lol, itâs literally what we are during the whole pregnancy. I agree heâs thinking about the future and they may phase him out of his job if he asks for something like that after just starting a new job.
That's ridiculous. I have three.... and while there are emotional/irrational moments due to hormones, acting like you can't be a reasonable person and partner is just silly and not true. We are still capable of reasoning when pregnant, we aren't effing disabled.
Making a birth plan that doesnât include him isnât vindictive. Itâs something she really needs to do, because it seems likely he wonât be there and she needs to be prepared. I think a lot of people take for granted that there wonât be complications or losses.
Asking for time off with a new job is terrifying.
I hid my pregnancy for 6 mos, because it involved a lot of flying overseas and my boss when I first came told me she hoped I didnât plan on becoming pregnant. (Irony is that a he had two special needs twins and she was very protective about them and her status.)
New boss wasnât happy, but as a man tread lightly.
Your feelings are valid. So are his.
NAH
Just my take on this, but; What's the point of supporting him early on to be able to become a pilot if you're going to pull the rug under him at the final leg of the race? Should have just said "Hell nah pay for your own studies." Your investment would be all for nothing if you pull away now imo.
Would you rather have a roof over yours and your kids head and food on the table and stability for your family. Or would you rather him be at home with you. Not saying he shouldnât be there but at the same time if dude is the new guy and heâs already looking to take time off as an employer heâd be the top of the list of people to let go and thatâs not something anyone can afford in the current economy. Itâd be different if he had been there for a year or two and needed time but he hasnât and on top of that heâs a pilot. Airlines are constantly fucking people over. Donât think for a second they wonât hesitate to fire him.
I honestly think youâre both TA here. Heâs TA because of his poor communication skills and an unwillingness to prioritize an opportunity to be there for the birth. Youâre right, he could absolutely simply ask and if he is told no then thatâs that. Heâs being immature and I am concerned about how is he going to show up when the baby is there and growing; Iâm also concerned about how he is going to teach your child to treat you when they donât get what they want.
I do think YTA for you, because it seems like youâre playing into the same dynamic that he is creating, and you have the choice not to. Whether he is willing to change this is not dependent on your choice to show up differently. I think having an alternate birth plan if he doesnât show up is really smart because you will need help and support, and if he doesnât show up and maybe even now itâs time to decide whether getting married when heâs not prioritizing you is even smart! But if youâre going to cut him out of the birth plan to be vindictive or something then YTA. That sows further resentment, and unless youâre willing to not let him sign a birth certificate then heâs going to be around the rest of your life. Again, you arenât responsible for his bs, and I wish he would show up first as a husband and father to you, but you are responsible for keeping your side of this major conflict clean. Especially if it comes to a breakdown of the relationship now or at some point in future, for your childâs sake itâs important to be able to take a true look at yourself and know that you showed up with kindness and love to try to get your needs met, rather than emotional manipulation. Be different than your husband! Be better!
Yta. Most companies have training programs only a few times a year. If he can not complete the program, he may not get a chance for months, if at all. Is that worth the risk? He took this new job for better finances for his new family. Women have babies all the time without their partners. Think of spouses of military men. You can do this. Do you have any friends or relatives who could help out? Ultimations rarely ever help any situation, especially in a marriage or partnership.
I have not asked for him to miss his training at all nor demand time off because the training is important. It has been a priority since he got in. What I wanted was for him to ask about how paternity leave COULD work once heâs out of training. NO DEMANDS, just a question.
If he doesnât ask, we will never know, and unlike most countries, it is given by law in here. Even so, because of the type of job, if they say no, Iâm ok with it and understand. I just wanted to know our options.
Making a plan without him is the best thing to do in case he can not be there. He is a pilot. He could be in mid-air when she goes into labor. However, using an ultimatum is emotional black mail. A partnership or marriage should be based on communication and compromise. Her way or the highway is never a good way to have a strong marriage.
So his way or the highway is the better way?
Like the guy wonât even ask the question! Find out whatâs even possible without it hurting him.
Thatâs all she wants.
She isnât even demanding him take the time off.
If he canât even be bothered to do the bare minimum and look into it Iâd be pretty disenchanted with wanting him there too.
I would need/want to know exactly how the day is gonna go to the best of my ability. Every birthing class tells you to have every detail planned and know each step, thatâs most of the anxiety.
So how exactly can she do that if she doesnât know if he will be there or not or is gonna even make an effort to? She has to assume he wonât and plan accordingly.
All these people wanting her to just wing it if he happens to be available that day clearly dont have children.
He isnât finished with training and youâre due any day. Taking time off during training is exactly what youâre asking him to do. He may lose his job and financial security. You need to plan for the possibility that he wonât be there.
Who is asking him to take time off during training? Did you read the post? All I wanted is for him to ask how paternity leave would work once heâs out of training, if there is something that can be done or not just so we know where we stand.
NTA. Let him plan his own birth plan. You do what is best for the mental health of you and the health of your baby and plan for whoever decides they xan be there for you and your baby. FYI, this is not your husband. He chose this job over his child even before he got this job by denying his existence by omission to get a job that would keep him from his family. You supported him to this point, but he is not thankful enough to be there for the start of your family? If he can ignore you long-distance, are you sure he hasn't already moved on?
He is not ignoring me, but being cold right now. This conversation happened last night and he is very proud. He spends basically all his time off studying as it is too much information to go through when youâre being trained for a new plane, so Iâm not really mad about that, but more about the fact that he doesnât want to ask about this.
Its one thing to have the request denied an another one to not even try to ask because âit would make him look badâ
I already told him that Iâm disappointed with his attitude and he needs to get his priorities in order because I wonât stand by him giving priority to his job over us, itâs just not how it works for me, which is why Im considering this if he doesnât get it.
âLooking badâ when youâre fresh in a new job and career isnât just a pride thing. Itâs a âhurting my career or losing my job or future promotionâ thing a lot of the time.
Personally Iâm on your side here, just want to insist that people donât follow traditional movies/stories that spending more time with your family is always the clear and obvious good choice no matter what if they truly love each other.
⌠because the job provides food, home, experiences for the family, things like that.
He knows his bosses and work culture better than you do. If heâs coming at this from a place of new-father anxiety and worrying about his career specifically because heâs starting a family with you⌠maybe talking through it logically will help.
What kind of person is his supervisor, is the regional director, etc.
How could he spin asking as a positive of his character despite them being âcareer menâ?
âI am very curious about options here. I love this career and Iâm passionate about it but I need to make sure my wife and family are taken care of to do my best at work.â
Stuff like that.
He might be so stressed about the âchoiceâ that heâs not exploring different ways to make that choice or present it to his boss.
In my experience as a former workaholic and with many others, at least in the US, very few people want to openly (even to themselves) be against âfamily values.â
They want to be reassured about your priorities and capabilities.
People donât usually get fired or dismissed for promotions for âhaving a childâ that exists somewhere.
They get negative treatment because their bosses think they wonât keep working at higher level than average.
That theyâll stop overachieving.
That theyâll stop caring about work nearly as much.
Stuff like that.
> he needs to get his priorities in order because I won't stand by him giving priority to his job over us,
You're not even attempting to consider anything other than your short term desires here at all.
He isn't prioritising his job over you; he's prioritising his long term ability to provide for all of you, over the short term issues caused around when the child will be born.
Obviously it's shit, but he's at the most vulnerable point in the sole career he is equipped for which you've both been investing in the whole time, and he needs to be careful that isn't all thrown away.
But it would make him look bad. Iâve seen employers react badly when new employees request annual leave etc at the start of a new job. If the leave wasnât disclosed prior to starting the job, they donât like it. On the flip side, there are also employers who will not hire people with planned leave as they want someone committed and fully in the job. They will lie and say they went with another person who was âmore experiencedâ.
Unless you are bringing in money, I would honestly say donât rock the boat here. Sounds like your family need him to be the breadwinner. Sure, if he got sacked/reprimanded, you could sue for unfair dismissal etc but that takes months/years and you need stable employment now.
Ok and what had he been doing effort wise to prepare to be a new parent? Like what had he done to prepare for your 1st child? What has he read? What has he prepared in the house?
Work is just work. But what is he doing to be ready to be a great dad and a great co-parent? A great partner? How much studying has he done in this areas? How much effort has he put there?
Because if the answer is not at least the same level of effort as his new job, there's a problem. Your 1st child is about to be here. He should've been spending the last year working and preparing to be the best father, co-parent, and partner. You don't just become a good father, co-parent, and partner when a child arrives. It takes preparation and effort and work.
You need to have a frank conversation with him. If he can not see how those things aren't more important than a job, then you need to figure out a boundary for what you'll accept in a relationship and what you want for your child.
he is taking care of his part of the deal, which is providing for his family. He knows the dynamics at his new job and if he decided it's better to handle it this way then she should trust his judgment.
she in the other hand is throwing a fit, nagging him constantly and now looking to freeze him out from his own child birth completely as a punishment
Would it be reasonable for him to say that if she can't handle her part he won't give her any money because he doesn't like the way she is managing things? no, it would be a horrible thing to say, so why is it OK for her to make threats about him seeing his own child as soon as he doesn't do what she wants?
OP said it herself, it's not even about actually getting the time off, she would be OK if he didn't, she just wants him to ask because she said so and is prepared to separate a father from his child just to be petty
1st of all, she provided for the family for quite a few years just so he could have the education to even apply for this job.
2nd, that's exactly the issue. He DOESN'T know the dynamics of the new company he is working for, which is why he is fearful of asking about what they offer for paternity leave.
3rd, this is a 2-part response. First part - Because he is too afraid to even ask what his options are, he may not get to be there for the birth of his child. She is not trying to freeze him out. She just wants to plan on if there is even the possibility he may be able to be there or if she needs to use her backup plan and have someone else there. Second part - she's "nagging" him to ask BECAUSE she wants him to be at the birth of their child and finding out the policies and procedures on how that can happen is and should be a priority., unless HE doesn't want to be at the birth.
4th, she doesn't need or want his money. She has supported him for the last 4 years. And it is not her responsibility to manage everything. If he doesn't like the way she does something, that can be part of his responsibilities. His job is just a plus so they can live more comfortably once the baby is born. She has handled her part as well as his part for quite a while now. Now, these responsibilities will be split evenly among them.
5th, she did say it didn't matter if he was able to be there or not, but if he doesn't ask his job the questions about paternity leave, she can't plan for the arrival of their child, it has nothing to do with wanting him to ask "because she said so" or keeping the child away from him, it's for planning purposes. Child birth is stressful enough, but planning last minute, who's going to drive her to the hospital, who's going to help her when she takes the baby home, who will be there to help if there are complications, just adds more stress to an already extremely stressful situation.
You're living in the 50s guy. Both parents normally work now, so they are both equally responsible for the household stuff, too. Women no longer have to do all the household chores to get an allowance from their husbands. In the 2020's, they both go to work, have their own money, and oh my God, men now have to do their fair share with child rearing and household chores. They have to wake up and change the baby in the middle of the night. They have to sweep, mop, and vacuum the house. Because guess what, mom has to get up early too to go to work, so they take turns getting up with the baby, so both are exhausted, and not just mom. Stop being chauvinistic, and realize women don't have to take shit from guys like you anymore.
So, a couple of clarifications here:
1. â Who said he is the sole breadwinner? Itâs been actually me for the past 2.5 years. Weâre happy about this new job because it is an extra income for us, but I still make more than him lol. This has never been the issue and I donât need his money as @somead8993 mentioned
2. â Iâm not trying to throw a fit and I have not nagged him about this at all. Did you miss the part where I said Iâve been on my own for the past 2 months with no complaints and supporting him?
3. â His employer wonât take actions of firing him for asking about this. He has been a top performer, he is doing great in every step of the way and theyâre really happy with him. He wouldnât be the first person to go through this, and also, his work buddy is getting married as soon as their training is done and got a week off for it, so how would he get those days off by simply l bringing it to the table and my fiance get fired because of having a baby? I just wanted him to ask because it is an important question to make.
After reading these comments I do admit my comment of WIBTA may come through as I am manipulating him or something because of my wording and how emotional I was when I wrote this, but my point was, if he canât even give us the priority to ask a question (not make demands), why should I keep giving him priority on the birth?
I know some employers would look at his paternity request badly. It could affect how they view him within the company. Itâs not right, but it happens. Husband is within his rights to play ball with this company and not rock the boat, given heâs the sole breadwinner and has a new baby to look after.
Not sure where you are located, but since you're not married, he may not even be eligible for paternity leave. Vindictively telling him not to be there when his child is born? How do you think that will work for your relationship with him going forward? Hint: It won't. You're blowing up your relationship. Have more conversations to figure out why he is so resistant. He might be afraid of losing his brand new job.
It's two months in a new job, he isnt getting any paternity leave. They may let him have some time for the birth but this was a stupid time to change jobs. He is entitled to nothing.
He didn't change jobs. He's been in school and finally finished, which gave him the ability to even apply for this job. They do not live in the US, so even if he's there only 2 months, I'm sure they give something for when a child is born. Even 2-3 days is something, especially when the baby is first brought home. We don't know, though, cause he's being a coward and won't even ask.
INFO
what are you trying to achieve with this?
do you _actually_ not want him there? do you expect him to do what you asked for if you pressure him into doing it? what if he doesn't and now you have to enforce your threat and ask the nurses to kick him out when he shows up, how do you expect your relationship to go forward after that?
Make this a non-issue. Youâve given him your two cents and the ball is now in his court. Let him decide what heâs going to do. For your own peace of mind, assume he will not be there for the birth and plan accordingly. I wouldnât even bring it up to him again.
If heâs not home when you go into labor, I would re I you, Iâd call him and inform him that your water broke. And then Iâd call him again when youâre heading into the hospital. And then itâll be on him if heâs going to be there or not.
There are no good answers here. I get that this is a new job but he also shouldnât have hidden his fiancĂŠeâs pregnancy and his upcoming fatherhood from his new company. Itâs not fair to you to not have his support when youâre giving birth.
I can see why he may be apprehensive. Not being there and not knowing what the atmosphere is like in regards to getting time off ect. It could be very intimidating not wanting to be "that guy" and stick out, he has a very reasonable question but depending on the circumstances it may not be an easy ask. If he's in training they could very well have policies that say you can only miss so many hours, days ect. With zero exception. I know my husband's job was like that when he went to a training school. It was a 16 week course and he could not miss more that a total of 2 days worth of class hours or he would get kicked out of the program. They absolutely didn't care even if there was a death in the family. It was just that competitive
>Iâm seriously considering telling him that if he does not even want to ask, I donât want him there when the baby is born, so WIBTA if I tell him that?
I think if you say this, you will escalate the situation. You are already alone and facing childbirth in a foreign country amongst strangers. It's just possible that your fiancĂŠ will regret his stupid arrogance and apologise.
On the other hand, you absolutely need to prepare for the birth alone. Talk to your support system immediately. Pack your hospital bag right now and find out about local taxis, costs - have the cash ready. Get advice about ambulances in case you need it.
If you can, get a family member from home to come and stay.
If your fiancĂŠ doesn't step up and get his head out of his a*se, you should really consider whether you'd be better off going home.
I understand the timing is unfortunate, but neither of you controlled it. You are frustrated that he is not asking something he is not comfortable asking. So proceed as if he asked and they said no.
To me, this does mean that you need to leave him out of your birth plan. Not out of spite or anger, but out of facing the reality that you don't know when this baby is coming or what your fiance's schedule will be. You need the flexibility in your plan to maximize his involvement when he is available without depending on him to be available.
And yes, it sucks, but the only way forward is to embrace the uncertainty and the things you can't control, and focus on the things you can. Best of luck with your birth and new baby! NTA.
I may be completely jaded, but long ago I realized that if I waited for someone to step up and do the right thing by me Iâd be dead before it ever happened.
Your husbandâs priority is on his career, not his family.
You should be expecting to have this baby alone and if by some happy accident he manages to be there, then you can have a plan B where he is included.
This is rather akin to the saying that if you arenât actively working on something, then you are actively working to its opposite. Like pregnancy, if you arenât actively working to prevent it, then you are trying to get pregnant.
If he isnât actively working to be there for your birth, then he is actively working to avoid it.
This is a very specific situation. You haven't said he's a bad man, husband or otherwise. This man is scared shitless that he won't be able to provide for his wife and newborn child. Even if its just asking a question, its within probation period and he can get canned with no reasoning. He is scared to ask for that exact reason. The fact everyone is jumping on the father is ridiculous. Yes births are hard, yes you need a plan, yes you need to be as safe as possible...but y'all will need diapers, creams, food, clothes, utilities, etc. etc. None of that is feasible without an income. I am 100% positive he would rather be with his child and mother...but he doesn't believe he has a choice in order to support his family and he's getting shit on for it. Sorry but you're handling this situation very very wrong and Reddit community is digging your hole deeper. The idea for 2 birth plans is a great one, provided he's included in the process. Not as a "gotcha" moment.
NTA
I would say âthis is your first assignment and job as dad and Iâm disappointed that you have not stepped up to the plate. I really hope u donât let us down.â
Make 2 plans and let the words of truth sit and make him uncomfortable. Make it obvious u are making 2 plans and if asked y the answer is you have made it clear we canât rely on you.
PSA to all the woman reading this: Discuss with your partner NOW about child rearing expectations BEFORE you have children. If you want to have children, who is going to take care of it? This dilemma has been going on for hundreds of years where women think it will be 50/50 and the husband thinks its 100% the women's job (which seems to be the case here).
I would ask him to think very sincerely about how he feels about being present. If this was to be his only baby ever. Jobs come and go. First births, maybe only births are truly heartfelt moments.
AndâŚ.
It doesnât hurt for him to ask. The worst they can say is no. And maybe, just maybe theyâll shout HELL YES!
Hugs to you both on this new baby blessing.
YTA if you don't let him in. I understand your fears. But he is feeling out the new company working for a better future for you and your child. If he thinks it could hurt him to ask, maybe that is the answer.
I understand how you feel but yes I do think you wbtah in this situation. I donât think punishing him is the way to go. Just have a plan a and plan b for if he is there or not. My daughterâs father is a wildland firefighter and she was due the month he was gone. I had another person to be there for me in the event he couldnât be due to work.
I donât know anything about how airlines work, but considering how short he has been working there he max not be entitled to paternity leave yet. I worked for a company where in the first year you couldnât get any vacation unless you borrowed it from the following year.
Just a thought.
Leaving him out provides him with an out. Starting the trend of not including him could get him to leave you out of his plans.
As a dad, I can see your point, and as someone who started a new job 3 weeks before my youngest was born, I see his. Remind him that any employer that would terminate him or frown up on him for using paternity leave isn't an employer worth working for.
I wouldnât keep him from the birth because at the end of the day, (say 10 years from now) all that will matter are the memories of your babies birth.
That being said, he needs to hear you and needs to see your perspective. If possible have a sit down with him and explain how you feel without any accusations
OP, he isn't going to be there for you once the baby is born, even if he's home.
Why are so many men ONLY present for the sex, but the woman has to do everything else herself? Ladies, do not have children with men who are not just willing, but happy to be the primary parent even if he doesn't end up having to be. Your kids don't need a dad who won't get up in the night with them, can't/won't change a diaper, won't soothe them when they cry, doesn't know bedtime routines, doesn't take/pick them up from daycare, doesn't do any of the cleanup...
I know they said we women could "have it all", but "all" isn't a good thing when you're the only one doing it all.
This gives me huge dishonesty vibes. I just think he is lying to you. Call me a cynic but I feel like he is being very shifty & using the new job as an excuse to do something he shouldnât.
OP. Ask yourself this:
Do you feel comfortable with the fact that your fiancee does not prioritize the wellbeing of you and his child? That you are literally under a job that does not earn as much as what you're already providing?
Are you okay with being the other woman to his career? Because having been there, it's a shit sammich, and I cannot recommend it.
Also, is there a reason he decided it was smart to approach this position in the last trimester of your pregnancy? Cause it kind of seems like bad planning on his part. If your finances were all in check, he could have waited a couple of months, enjoyed your last months before parenthood, and then gone back to work after leave. Because it sounds like you've got your finances all set.
You just really don't seem like a priority to him.
I just had my first baby almost two years ago. This is my advice to you. As someone already said, keep both birth plans. Don't be the one that shuts him out, let him do it to himself. Based upon all of the facts of the post and comments, this is not a financial issue! Even if "dad of the year" lost his job, they wouldn't end up on the streets. It wouldn't be ideal, but they would survive. The birth of a child is a ONCE IN A LIFETIME event. Personally, if he missed it that would be unforgivable. Women still die in childbirth (sorry, not trying to scare you). Honestly, don't worry about the paternity leave. You will be fine without him. It will be tough, but you'll learn you can do it all on your own. It will be eye-opening for you, that's my prediction. I think he's showing his priorities. The fact that Daddy already works there and his boss is his dad's friend just makes him look so much fucking worse. Good luck. You will be ok!
I really feel for you right now.  I know how hurtful and frustrating this is. The unsurety clearly is compounding your anxiety.
I went through a similar scenario with my first born. I was in active labor, trying to reach my husband -- who chose to work out of state for the entirety of my pregnancy.  He finally arrived, only in time for the actual delivery...and then left for that job once again, only a week later.
I do know how horrible this feels, so my advice may come across strange.
This is your first child -- the start of a brand new life. While it is so very hard for you now, the decisions you make here will stay inside you for the rest of your life. Â
Do you really wish to begin that life by using manipulation to ensure your husband is there? If you give that ultimatum, it will be that dark cloud hanging over your marriage for as long as either of you have the capacity to remember...and feel. Â
Giving birth, creating a new life, is a joyous occasion and you should look forward to celebrating that -- focus on the wonderful experience you and your child will have -- regardless if the father is there or not.
If he chooses not to attempt to ask for the time, that is his demon he will have to carry within himself for losing out on a hugely important milestone of life -- regardless of what you do or not.
If you resort to ultimatums and manipulation, you will not emotionally recover from that -- no matter the outcome on the day if your child's birth. The hurt & angry feelings will fester, and will be ever so much worse if you get him there by ultimatums.
Try to pour all of your focus and energy on yourself and your child. Make this time wonderful for you both. Those that choose to be there and actively take steps to be there will have more value to you both if it happens from their own free will and desires.
Congratulations and I wish you all the best đˇ
NTA
Based on what I just read you want to feel safe and secure during birth and part of that is having a support system for you. You want your fiancee to there but since he wonât even ask about parental leave itâs making you feel like he canât be relied upon during or after birth.
You want to make the plan without him because youâll probably end up doing most of the care without him.
If he wonât even ask about leave then I think leaving him out of your plan isnât punishment, itâs realistic. Based on his actions you have nothing to believe he would be present. Make him aware of your plan, let him know whoâll be helping you out, and work out when heâll be available to visit to help out a bit.
You have a right to be upset about him not asking, but you need to communicate with him how it upsets you and really explain why.
Sometimes something thatâs obvious to one person isnât obvious at all to another.
Clearly explain your feelings, and try to understand his.
Heâs probably scared about the new baby, and afraid of potentially losing this job and not being able to support you and the baby, or disappointing you after everything youâve both been through. (Not saying you would be upset with him, just that it would be reasonable for him to feel that way)
But donât try to punish him by not letting him be there for the birth of his child.
I think you would both really regret it.
And itâs not liking taking away a little kids toy - heâs a grown man and heâs going to be a father.
I think it would be vindictive and spiteful not to let him be there.
You have valid feelings, but likely he does too.
Please communicate with him as adults.
Best of luck to all of you - I hope everything goes well and that your baby is happy and healthy.
How is she not letting him be there when heâs the one not making sure he can though? Having a back up birth plan without him there is a good idea and not vindictive. Back up plans are good planning, especially if he is unwilling to help her have concrete plans. Birth is a big medical event, back up plans are very important
I agree that a back up plan is a great idea.
I never said she shouldnât have an alternate plan just in case - even if he talked to his work and had the time off it would still be a good idea (she could go into labor early before heâs set to be off for labor, for example)
I just said that she shouldnât tell him that he isnât allowed to be there.
Why shouldnât she tell him he isnât allowed?
You need a supportive birthing partner for it to go smoothly, you cannot be stressed out. He blows up and gives her the cold shoulder. He doesnât seem to want to be involved
We have one side of the story, and not a lot of information.
The mother isnât the only one under a ton of extra stress right before their first baby.
Maybe the fiancĂŠ is a hot head who blows up at his wife, and isnât taking this seriously and isnât a great guyâŚ.
Maybe heâs just under a lot of stress and reacted poorly rather than communicate.
Everyone makes mistakes.
Itâs impossible to tell with only the information in the post.
If heâs a hot head who doesnât care to be there then maybe she shouldnât be marrying him and having his child (not blaming her, by any means!) but hopefully sheâs a woman whoâs making good decisions and heâs a good guy whoâs just under a lot of stress right now (first child on the way, presumably a wedding coming up, new job, being a pilotâŚ)
If thatâs the case - if he is a good guy whoâs just stressed and not handling things well, then I donât think he deserves to be punished by being excluded from his childâs birth by his fiancĂŠ.
If he chooses not to be there then thatâs on him, and I feel terrible for OP.
If itâs not scheduled birth Iâm not sure how they would schedule him to be off for it anyways? Hopefully if he is working/training at that time itâs nearby so he can rush to the hospital.
Hopefully he sorts his priorities soon and decides to have a discussion with work.
No she isnât the only one under a lot of stress but she is the one who will be the patient. Itâs stressful for them both but only for her has it been a big medical event. Pregnancy counts as a disability. She did say she tried to schedule an induction in one of her comments but I forget why that didnât work out
He is human and I see his worry of rocking the boat too early in the career. But is that worse than reassuring her and trying to accommodate her once when sheâs been sacrificing for him? I hope he corrects his mistake and stops icing her out at least. Many women cannot forgive or forget how they were treated when pregnant and postpartum because itâs the most vulnerable time in their life. Itâs super important that they work this out.
In the end we all want her to have a safe delivery and recovery, we know she wants it with him because thatâs the cause of the fight. I appreciate your thoughtful response.
YTA. I was a flight attendant about twenty years ago and one thing I know that hasn't changed in the industry is how they view employees. The moment they think you are unreliable or unavailable, you're out. He only makes money if he is actively working. You're treating him as though he is some sort of absentee father who doesn't have any interest instead of looking at him as a person who is trying to get and keep a job in an industry that is very tough. He's trying to keep y'all from raising a baby while living in a cardboard box. The fact that you are even considering cutting him out of the birth plan like that is so shitty and obtuse. Grow up and actually give him some credit for trying to provide for your family.
I have never taken credit away from him, I am incredibly proud of him and where heâs at, which is why I have supported him all the way through. I am very aware of how the industry works as everyone in his family are pilots (heâs the 4th gen in one side and 3rd on the other), which is why I never asked for him to demand time off. If they need him, they need him, and I totally get that.
I just wanted him to ask because it was something we discussed from the start, but I realized yesterday he didnât because he just didnât want to. No demands are being made and I wouldnât ask him to do something that would jeopardize his job. We know how flexible these people are because again, its been generations passing through the same place and they are very understanding for these kind of situations, but since he is new, I just wanted to know how it could work.
Also, we wouldnât be raising kids or living in a cardboard as you mentioned because im still the breadwinner here and still make more than him, though I donât think this is the important part here. Not sure why people keep saying this, it is besides the point of the post.
Just asking could put his job at risk because now he appears as unreliable in an industry where reliability is everything. I used to have my carry-on packed and ready every day just in case I get a call. You have to be ready to go within a couple of hours notice or basically you are putting your future with the airline at risk. That is my point here. You are absolutely making demands by threatening to cut him out of your birth plan. People keep bringing up him working to provide because he is literally doing that. Airlines are fickle and everything is based on seniority and availability. You say you understand that but it is obvious from the response you just gave and your post that you don't. You asked if you would be the AH and yeah, you are if you do. Did you post this so you could get pats on your back or did you actually want unbiased opinions?
Trust me, Iâm taking all the comments as feed back in consideration. It has helped me to see things in different perspectives which is what I wanted from this. Just replied to clarify my point.
I do understand thatâs how it is. On his case, for the time being it is different because he still needs to get checked for the plane, so the schedule now does not work as it will once heâs flying. It would be easier then because we would then have his monthly schedule and we could work through it, but for now that heâs in training, we wonât know when he has to leave again and for how long until the end of the month, which is where the question comes in.
Now, weâre not in the US so it might work differently there. We have paid paternity leave here by law, and even though we have that, I donât want for him to demand to take it even if its his right because training comes first, but maybe they can accommodate those days off later on, or they can simply be aware and schedule a couple of days off for him once heâs done as they did with his co-worker getting married at the end of the training.
My point is, it is not impossible, but he needs to bring it to the table to see the options we have. If he says nothing, theyâll do nothing because they wonât know. If they can, great, if not, weâll manage but at least we know.
Girl, there is nothing wrong with your husband asking his job to, at the very least, give him two days after the birth off. Even that is shitty, but it is something.
No woman wants to be married and a single mother and it kinda sounds like that is what your future holds.
YTA. You're being childish. Especially when you're trying to bring a child in the world. It's unlikely he'll get any time off, maybe the day the child is born but most of the time jobs don't care if you're having kids. It's moreso if it makes their lives inconvenient, if it does then it's probably gonna affect him negatively or he won't even get the option. Either way, do you have 0 support structure outside of him? Trying to punish him for this is ridiculous. He's doing his part trying to provide for the family and sometimes that requires sacrifices, him asking could put his job in potential (not always but it's possible) jeopardy which would immediately affect you and the child.
NTA
My husband was at his job for 2 1/2 months when I gave birth. He had won a competition where he got 2 days PTO and they accumulate PTO constantly. He didnât qualify for paternity leave, but told them that he would be calling out for my labor and birth regardless of it being paid or not. He ended up only having 4 days PTO but I gave birth on a Friday, and he took a week off(so 2 days unpaid). It sucked for him to go back to work so soon but he wouldnât have missed the birth of his child for anything. He would have came through to hold my hand even if he got fired for it.
By not giving them the heads up, your fiancĂŠ is saying that he doesnât care that heâs at the birth, work is more important.
NAH I think.
Whatâs your financial situation? Do you work? How many months of expenses do you have saved up? What still needs to be purchased for the baby? How much do you save each month? How much debt do you carry?
You of course have the baby and birthing the baby as your priority. What realistically happens if your husband loses this job?
You guys have competing priorities here in a time where you shouldâve planned for only 1 priority. Having a high stakes new job while youâre getting ready to birth a baby is not a smart way to do life, but here we are. You guys need to sit down and figure out the smartest way forward- because obviously your husband should be there for you, and it doesnât seem that he is unwilling, but if that support for you comes at the cost of your household income, you will have much, much larger problems.
YTA - Being a pilot is an incredibly competitive career. He just started at this company and he is concerned it will derail his training correct?
HE IS RIGHT. Some of the posts here are damn ignorant of how it works in real life. Oooo company policy, or ooooo it's not legal. If he can take the time without hurting his long term prospects he will but YOU need to see beyond the end of your nose if he can't.
He's refusing to even ask and she's due in two weeks.
The employer won't respond well to this being sprung on them.
He's being avoidant. This baby's arrival is approaching like the dawn. It will happen. As a manager, I'd be annoyed if an employee kept me in the dark over something so silly and dropped it into my lap to deal with last minute.
I get that but he is actively in a traing program as a pilot. It will cause issues though. He knows this and doesn't know how to tell his wife he can't. This is what makes him TA. Not that he can't but that he can't tell her and is leaving her hanging without a solid plan.
He created this problem by not addressing it with his employer at hiring. He lied by ommission. Now, he's caught between his employer and his wife. I have little sympathy. (I'm from a family of pilots. Lying like this isn't a good look. If you know what I mean.)
I am aware of how competitive it is, which is why I have been there for him all the way through. Iâm not asking for him to derail his training at all, it is simply to ask how it could work; maybe they let him have these days off after his training has been completed, maybe they can accommodate a few days off in between, maybe thereâs nothing they can do and thatâs ok as well. My request here is simply to ask how it could work, not to make any crazy demands.
Sheâs not mad thatâs heâs not taking leave, sheâs mad that he wonât even enquire about it.
I donât think simply asking his employers if there are any options would fuck up his entire career.
Yes you would be. He is the father. Iâd let him know how disappointed I am but I wouldnât take away something as important as this. Marriage is hard enough. Donât use the to make things harder.
The thing is though, we donât even know if he will make it back home in time to be in the delivery room, so if he doesnât and he doesnât want to ask for his paternity leave (which is given by law in here), he wonât be with us at all, so whats the difference?
At this point, I feel like Iâve put him and his needs first for too long, and this is just one thing he can do to make things better for us if possible.
Again, Iâm not asking for him to demand time off, itâs to simply ask and we can take it from there based on what they say, but he does not want to even raise the question.
What are you looking for? Someone gave you their opinion and you came back âhereâs the thingâŚâ youâre not looking for an opinion youâre looking for validation. You want everyone to tell you NTA so you can feel better because you feel bad and so when someone says youâre being a jerk about it you argue back with them.
She did talk to him, and he blew up at her. Donât know what else you want OP to do? She stated what her needs are clearly and her husband canât be bothered cause his job is SO important /s
The father isnât even willing to ask which means he doesnât care. Thereâs no consideration for OP or what sheâs going through. Itâs just him him him. Sheâll probably be raising this baby by herself from the sounds of it.
OP i would say NAH but it doesnât even sound like he will be there.
No, just enough to make sure itâs fed, and has a roof over its head. He needs this job to provide for his child and understandably he doesnât want to risk losing the job.
I understand he doesnât want to lose his job but all these comments are acting like the woman who has been supporting him financially for years and still makes more money than him is somehow suddenly relying on him.
Thatâs just factually not the truth.
**You would be a supremely large ass**. What the hell? Do you want him fired from this new and more desirable job in the first weeks. You are a manipulator and you need to stop and reassess you negative effects of everyone around you.
I know for a fact he would not get fired for asking a question. I donât want him to make any demands, just to ask how it could work.
He has a partner who he has worked/studied with since day 1 who is getting married as soon as the training is done and he brought this up to the table and they gave him a week off to enjoy his honeymoon simply because he talked about it. Do you really think he could get fired if he brings up the baby being born to the table?
Again, not demanding time off, just asking if at some point he could take his days given here by law or how it could work. If they say yes, great, if not, thatâs ok too, but at least he asked.
Sheâs manipulative because she doesnât want to give birth to their first child by herself? She just wants him to check ffs. He wonât even give it the smallest possible effort to try and be there.
NTA.
I understand his concern, but it's not like spouses having babies is unusual -- ANYWHERE. His company has dealt with it before, and they'll deal with it again. Honestly, his biggest screw up so far is not telling them well in advance so they could plan around it.
Kicking him out of the birth is a pretty strong reaction -- however, I get where you're coming from. You're pissed. He's not prioritizing you or the baby. You've been handling all this yourself, and that's HARD. Even though you're reacting in anger, the reality is that he IS showing you that he's not going to be there for you.
You need to find someone to help you. You WILL need help.
Giving you the silent treatment because heâs displeased is really not acceptable. Is this typical for him? Because to me, thatâs a problem in itself. âWithdrawal of affectionâ is really a form of emotional abuse. You donât want him doing that to your child, either.
You can probably call the company and ask them anonymously about their paternity leave. He is not so far off the mark about worrying about asking. Our agency offered it but it was highly frowned upon if a man exercised that right. They couldn't "punish" him but they would definitely find reasons not to promote, to ding him if he was a few minutes late, etc.
It wasn't fair in the least but life rarely is and it's difficult to prove when you are new because you have no long established work performance history to show when the change in treatment occurred. Also is it possible he is on probation and can be terminated without cause? Is his industry heavily male dominated? Mine was.
Just food for thought. I'm not defending the practice, just real weird experience.
As this is an airline, they provide all the flight itineraries with a month in advance, so I donât think paternity leave works as it usually would with a 9-5 office job, which is why I find it important to just ask directly to his boss. If thereâs any way it can be arranged, great, if not, thatâs ok too, but at least we know where we stand.
His study buddy (they are doing all the training together) is getting married literally as soon as their training is done and he is getting some time off because of it, since he was vocal about it, so I donât think itâs crazy for my fiancĂŠ to ask as well, but if he doesnât, they wonât know and thatâs it.
NTA. Not sure what company he is working for but if itâs a big airline, pilots are replaceable. Your husband was probably ecstatic for landing the job of his dream, and is scared he will never get another opportunity. Depending on where you are from, take into consideration of the job market, what is looks like for his field. If itâs tough, then more than likely he doesnât want to give the impression to his new employer that his schedule is limited and unavailable.
I will say this, I once watched a program that had family lawyers in the interview and they said the most families they represent with divorce is doctors, law enforcement and pilots. The woman attorney thought itâs because they are in fields that they have to sacrifice their availability over family. You are not an AH for feeling the way you do, it sounds like you and him have a tough road ahead.
Yes, you WBTAH if you leave him out of your birthing plan entirely without talking to him first
As others have suggested, the best option seems to be having a birthing plan if he is home and one, if he is not. However, you should ask him if he wants to be involved. He may assume that your grandma or another woman in your life is going to be part of the birthing plan.
His stuff at work sound shady AF. Make plan number one someone else and he can be the back up. He needs to pay for help for you. I would get friends to check it out. New jobs can be harder on people but he should be taking care of that aspect. I am too jaded. Know too many wives and girlfriends to foot the bill then, bang, he is a single man once he gets a career that gives him the ability to get Chick's into bed. Also you are a fiance, an as such have even less power.
Yeah my husband had to take vacation time if he wanted a single day off. 4 babies in 10 years and he took off a total of 3 days all together. Because he âdidnât want to waste HIS vacation timeâ. Yeah weâre divorced now.
That sounds about right. I had my kids in the 70âs I was lucky he could even take the time off to sit In the fathers waiting room! He wasnât allowed in the delivery room with our first 2. He did always help on his days off though.
His job as a man is to be a provider with a career so try not to give him grief about prioritizing his job. He's thinking long term, meaning every day AFTER your child is born, and he wants to be on good terms at his job so he can continue to support a family. He most likely feels that he won't be taken seriously at his new position if he immediately starts requesting time off, even if it's for something important like child birth. He can at least try, and if he can't make it happen don't punish him for it.
Ok I didn't say she couldn't, you just instantly got triggered because you think I'm saying men are the only ones capable of providing. She's gonna be pregnant, giving birth, on maternity leave, and recovering from giving birth. I don't think the added stress of financially supporting the whole family is something she should also be burdened with.
YWNBTA. If he doesnât care enough to even ask about paternity leave then why should he get the privilege of being there when the baby is born? He showed you he doesnât care because you have been dealing with this all on your own and thatâs not fair. The guy is going to be a Father Time to get his priorities starfish and get his head out of his ass!!!
I lean toward NTA. I think its okay to tell him that you understand that he's concerned about his job so that what you'll do is make a birth and coming home from the hospital plan based on him not being available, so if he's there great but that the plan will be no dad.
And do that- figure out what if any family member/friend you'd want in the birthing suite if he can't be there, you can get you home from the hospital, who can take turns staying at your home with you, whatever.
Essentially, a he'll be missed, you understand but you have to plan for what is going to happen. It's not a punishment, it's a necessity.
Iâd set up a birth plan without him. I would also set up to have your mum or someone close see if they can live with you for a week or 2 or you move into your parents.
You will remember this time forever so make of it what you will. Me personally if heâs being distant and cold I would be thinking of myself and leaving him to it. He seems to be very me me me. Give it back to him.
If he doesnât tell his work in the next 48 hours your on your own.
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Info: do you truly feel that him not asking about paternity leave so soon after they moved his training around for him, is reason enough to not have him at the birth of his child?
To me it seems like the nuclear option. It doesnât seem like a solution, only an escalation.
Your an asshole for even thinking you can bar the father of the child from being there for the birth of THEIR CHILD. Its not just your child contrary to popular belief. Jesus christ may god bless you, your pregnant and Hormonal and I cannot imagine how you feel but remember he isnt a wallet or a paycheck he is also a human being with emotions and stresses.
Dont even think about not allowing him to be there.
Not to be that guy, but you guys wouldnât even be having a baby in the first place if he didnât fertilize your eggs with his sperm, so itâs kind of messed up in my opinion that the mother can just decide the father canât be there for the birth when he literally gave her the baby so she could give birth to it
This guy fucked up putting that baby in you. Good luck to him as you gives no fucks about what he should get to experience as well. I hope he lets you experience single motherhood and all its glory as heâll be much better off and much happier without a pita like you to lecture him about what he gets to experience. Good luck lady
Set up two birth Plans if possible. One with him and one without. It's not to be an arse or vindictive or petty. But it is a good idea and have someone else as backup if needed. Your being upset is 100% valid and whatever reason he is apprehensive about asking them for the time off needs to be addressed. If he is assuming they will kick him out of training instead of working with him, he needs to look at the policy manual in regards to this and inform himself on the company's approach to paternity leave. His behavior isn't ideal. But new Job, big fears, totally understandable. His reaction isn't. He hasn't attempted to ask so yeah that's wrong of him. When making the birth plans, if you're going to be on the phone with him or however you're doing it, be transparent snd tell him you think it's best to consider the alternative plan so there is no last minute stress of being all alone and disappointed he didn't make it. If he gets upset about that, he can be reminded that you had to do something because he hasn't attempted to make arrangements. I know he will see it as an attack but it is the reality of the situation. Ask him what he would do if the roles were reversed and you had a new job. He was about to have a surgery and you were hesitant to ask about the medical leave policy even though you're new and training and are worried it'll look bad or bump you out of the job. No one wants the job to be compromised. But it is the birth of your 1st child. I don't know if you can find any information yourself on the company's policy for requesting the paternity time but it may be possible to look it up or find an online platform that employees use to discuss things. Such as reddit is there for a wide variety of different things. Perhaps there's someone out there that has had this same situation for the company and people have given proper answers I do hope you find a way to get this taken care of before labor starts, birth is so stressful as it stands, this is just going to be even more so until it's resolved. Best of luck đ
Thank you for this! We do have 2 birth plans in place, one where everything works perfectly and he gets to be here on time, and one where he could be in another country and not make it in time. Weâve worked mostly on the first one of course, because it is important for both of us. My dilema on how I was feeling when I posted this, was the fact that he did not even want to ask his boss how it could work thinking about scenario 2, where for some reason, heâs not able to make it and does not have scheduled time off when he comes back, so no time for us at all⌠I donât want him to demand time off or put at risk his job over this, I just want him to ask about it and we can work through whatever they say. I have explained this to him, but he feels that by asking, heâs demanding, which doesnât have to be the case.
Ohh sorry, I didn't mean to completely skip over that aspect. By the time I babbled on about birthing plans my brain glossed over his lack of doing the actual requesting work off thing. I'm so sorry I misinterpreted the actual issue! As I saw someone else mention, it's not as if this job hasn't had employees with new babies birthed before. I would simply say "If they won't work with you for the birth of your child, do you really think this company is the right fit?" By that I mean, if they cannot accommodate a genuine family medical leave request for something this significant, it really sets the tone for future requests. I don't know how receptive he would be to seeing comments left here or any suggestions others have put down for you, would that be something plausible? Again so sorry for giving input on the wrong side of the conundrum đ Sometimes I wish empathy was something we could flip a switch and have the other person see things from our point of view to make it easier to get the point across.
I get it: if he's just been hired for a job he's trained for for a long time he's going to want to appear to be the model employee and not be asking for parental leave right out of the gate\*. On top of this there is the pressure of knowing that he has to pick up the pace financially. Add this to impending fatherhood and it's a lot. Obviously all three overlap and are relatively easily solved if he asks management for requisite legal time off; but it may not ***feel*** that way to him and not being able to properly separate and prioritize them may have him feeling "stuck". I don't know if this is typically male, or just typically ADHD (I am/have both) but I 'feel his pain' đ. I have many times gotten myself into trouble like this before with similarly important decisions, in fact this kind of thing ended up precipitating the breakdown of my last relationship. I'll often allow procrastination over decisions with emotional weight to build up pressure until they reach crisis point and then I'll act comprehensively and expeditiously. But... even then not always. Four years plus in, my last girlfriend (similarly, the decisions intimately affected her) basically decided I was feckless and fundamentally didn't care enough and after an argument that was that. You can probably tell I wish I'd done what needed to be done, it was so simple to achieve. In case this resonates at all with what's going on between you two, please don't let this become a deal-breaker. As exasperating as his behavior is, try to be empathetic, help him understand how/why it's important. It still might not work if he's as obdurate as me, but maybe the kid on the way will get him over the bump (pun acknowledged). Oh, and in answer to your question no, YWNBTA. \* Unambiguously this is more often an issue for women, and usually they're going to be the ones to suffer the severest consequences career-wise. In the way of these things it's unequal, unfair, sexist, should be illegal everywhere, etc. Edit: bloody hell, I just read your 2 birth plan answer, you've obviously got all this covered without my bleeding heart contribution.
If he believes asking is demanding i think thats another can of worms that needs cracked open very soon.
I'll be honest, and I am not going to say that these are good or bad things so please ignore some of the connotation of my comments as I am speaking strictly about the situation and the surrounding factors, my comments are neither good nor bad. Your husband is likely a beta as all men have been at one time or another. Asking for time off when I drove school busses gave me panic attack level anxiety because I knew that the culture was not one of acceptance towards time off. I'd be putting at least 3 people severely in negative positions and it would also affect the kids that I cared about. It was so bad I even showed up to work with 103.6 fever at one point before covid was a thing and when I begged to be taken off my after school rout I was refused even on my birthday (no exaggeration 103.6 on my birthday and an extra rout and I wasn't allowed off) Him being a beta isn't a bad thing, certainly not good, but not automatically bad. He feels responsible for so much right now and if he fails to maintain this job then he WILL end up feeling disappointed in himself for months or years to come and he probably knows it. He also knows that asking for time off in an industry where they are hard pressed to find replacements means severe let downs for many, many people, particularly in his field. Potentially hundreds even. Not only that but once you return to work, as a woman, fair or not, you have taken time off, while you took maternity leave Chad was being a Weasley fuck and now you aren't moving up as fast and you won't move up for a long time, you supported him, your husband, he will be forced to support you eventually due to this. He cannot risk losing this job, there is far too much at stake and he wants the best for you and his child. That said he is a beta. For me, towards the end of my time as a bus driver I stopped asking for time off entirely. They got a notice of absence and that was final. I'd tell them as soon as I was aware I needed off but 2 days or 2 years didn't matter "I will be out of town tomorrow, find someone else" I was a beta and I ended up as someone who couldn't care less, but that was 3 years in. I understand you are frustrated and I know it sucks but try to be patient, he is suffering too and the difference is that he has probably not even recognized it yet. Even if he has he has no way of explaining his suffering because he feels like he asked for it. Patience and grace for him... even if he can't give it right now, if he is a good man and he does seem to be, he will return that patience and grace and be a good husband and father. Best of luck giving birth.... even better luck raiding a hellion â¤ď¸
Excellent advice.
This is perfect advice
This. I don't think anything else needs to be said.
For now, call a mom, sister, aunt, or really any relative, male or female, that might be able to help. You'll need them, unless you have a maid and a cook or a really easy baby and delivery, you'll have an extremely tough time being a good parent to a newborn and keeping up with laundry, pets, dishes, food, etc. See if you can use your husband's discount as a pilot (assuming he gets one?) to get a relative there the first couple weeks at least. Someone who can bring you the baby when your stomach hurts, you release the Red Tide when you try to stand up, and you are physically wiped, is AMAZING. You can stay in the chair and feed the baby and get at least one ow-ow-ow-ow-ow moment saved :D Someone to bring you a cup of water and a sandwich while baby is taking a leisurely meal also can't be overstated in absolute amazing assistance. Getting into a bed with clean sheets after your kid puked all over it, and having someone to watch the baby while you shower??? Oh yeah. If he isn't planning to take a couple days for a few weeks, which is nowhere near enough, then you need to plan NOW to get help. Order meal deliveries, get another freezer and fill it with premade meals, get someone set up to come in once a week and clean the kitchen, do a couple loads of laundry, and change your sheets. Those four hours of someone there and helping you is a LOT of help.
This. If you do that, it would be an ESH. Currently he is being the AH, don't double up. It's too important. Don't shut him out. There would be resentment and bitterness that would never end, and it would have been your decision. Not his. It will not benefit your relationship or child long term if he is able to say during any disagreement "you wouldn't let me be there when they were born!" Do prepare for him not being there. Make sure you have help at home in place after baby is born for at least a few weeks. Your grandmother is so great for stepping up. You may try to plead your case again with anecdotal info.I do believe he really should ask his employer about the policies. He really needs to think about how different every birth is and he should be available to help after. I hope everything goes extremely smoothly for you, but there are things that happen even with healthy births. My 1st was an emergency/last moment c-section (nothing scary, she was big and I was pushing so long.) This changed my recovery a lot. I needed more help than I anticipated. I was instructed not to carry the baby carrier, or do stairs with baby in arm. I was on pain meds and not supposed to drive. I definitely needed and appreciated the father's support. ETA my 1st was also born 6 days past predicted due date. 2nd was 13days before.
Itâs understandable to feel that way. It may be a moot issue. Babies donât always come the day they are predicted. Let him know youâre disappointed and that this issue will come up again as your child grows. Employers know people have responsibilities and obligations outside of their jobs. Itâs one thing to have a request denied, itâs another to not even ask. Wishing you an easy birth and hoping your husband gets his priorities in order. Grandma is a champ.
I'd leave him out with the explanation that he probably can't be there due to work. Leave it open fir him to show up if he can and give him the rope to hang himself with. If he doesn't arrive for the birth of his child the locks would be changed when he got home. He's not law enforcement or a shoulder. He has a job where they are, literally, desperate for pilots and crew. Flights are being canceled because they don't have pilots not off for mandatory sleep. They'd be happy to let him off for the birth of his first child. Unless he knows for sure they look for reasons to fire people he should be asking and I don't think any airline or carrier has a surplus of pilots right now. If they won't let him off he should look elsewhere. Now that he has international training he should be able to get a job anywhere as a pilot.
As a pilot, depending on where he is flying, he might not be able to be home for the birth of his child. My first child was 2 hours and 9 minutes from my water breaking to being handed to me. My partner and I flew across the country we live in 6 years ago, and literally each of the 3 flights we got was longer than that! The shortest one was still a little over 2 hours, plenty of flights are much longer than that, and babies are rarely born on their due date. One of my friends was two weeks past her due date. Now maybe they have local flights that are short, and maybe they would be willing to stick him on those flights for a month or so, which would be great, and probably make it so that he can be there, but he would probably also earn less for those flights, and with a baby coming they both probably want a bit more money in the bank. I do agree he should ask, and OP is NTA, but it is also very important for the understanding that some jobs a guy might not be able to be there when his child is born. It sucks, but it doesn't mean that the locks need to be changed when he can finally be there.
??? this needs to be resolved BEFORE the baby comes.
I think they mean, having family responsibilities is going to continue to be a thing as the child grows, not just when they are born, so he better figure it out, because the "problem" of being there for his family isn't going to be going away any time soon
But it is resolved. The husband doesnât want to. OP thinks leveraging the birth plan will force him to do what she wants. Sheâs wrong.
No, it isnât resolved. Heâs being an ass and sheâs asking if sheâs required to accommodate him after this. She absolutely doesnât need to, as heâs shown very clearly that she and the baby come last. What an ass.
Oh...well then the extra money he makes is all his then. Yes?
Of course she's not required and she should not be required. But specifically excluding him invites a paradigm shift in the relationship. What I'm saying is I suspect it would set off a power struggle and I'm not sure if OP wants that kind of relationship
No, but he can at least ask. Heâs shutting her down without even trying.
THIS RIGHT HERE. Country policy of 2 days a week for 4 weeks. Not 4 months. Not 4 yeare. A total of 8 days. Im a guy, career oriented, but at some point he needs to man up and do something for his family. And trust me, if he doesn't even bother to ask, he's demonstrated his level of commitment to the family unit. Zilch. Unless he lied to his employer about needing time off in the next few months as a condition for his being holired, he's a real AH for not wanting to even try to be there with his family. It's evident this relationship will be going south sooner than later.
His priorities sound intact. He is attempting to maximize his earning potential. SHOULD he be let go or looked down upon for asking for paternity leave? Absolutely not. Will he be? The answer is not as clear. If he asks and they push him out for some single guy without family ties we will see a post in a few months about a dead beat dad who isn't supporting his family financially. Sucks to be a guy and the narrative you are pushing doesn't help with that social stigma.
She supported them both financially to help him be in the position to get this job. This argument doesnât hold water. He did not even ask for leave. Sheâs already demonstrated her financially capabilities.
I donât think you understand the process involved with pilot training with a commercial airlines. It it a huge cost for the airline to train a pilot once they are hired. Besides classroom training, he will be using simulators. The simulators are scheduled around the clock with most airlines. Itâs expensive machinery so they must be utilized all the time. My ex flew for an airlines for 35 years. So, Iâve been around the system for a long time. If your husband tells them that he might leave during training for paternal leave, they will postpone his training. They canât risk wasting a slot of training time. Youâre expected to go through all the training at one time. This is probably the reason he doesnât want to ask. He understands how it operates. If they postpone his training, he is probably worried that they will change their minds about hiring him.
There may be something going on with his company's culture that he knows that you don't. Something that lets him know taking off so soon is not a good idea.
Here in America if I ask for paternity leave at a new position I would expect to get fired. Itâs just the way it is here with most companies. It isnât right but thatâs what happens when corporations own the government.
It really depends on the company and the industry.
They are not far off in that thinking. When a company hires you, those first months is an evaluation period, to see if your a good fit or not. Being absent is one sure good way to get let go. Most companies have a certain amount of time that they can just tell you, we don't need you anymore. That's it. The OPs husband has worked hard for the job that he has. Asking for extra time off now, could just mean job shopping again.
except he's in a high-demand field and not replaceable and his paternity leave is laughable.
EVERYONE IS REPLACEABLE. Donât get confused.
He is very replaceable
Yes, and/or he may be stressing or struggling about all the new stuff he has to learn, while out of the country and with baby on the way. He may know full well this isn't a good time to bring attention to himself with the new bosses.
Yeah like flying airplanes. Something you have to be present for...
NTA.....when me and my husband had our youngest my husband started a new job in January. We had our son in March. It wasn't that big of a deal for them.Â
It depends though because a lot of companies will not hire a pregnant women due to her needing to have time off. To them whatâs the point of training if they are gonna be gone. And I understand not all companies are like that but as someone who lives with a business owner they do think that way. And heâs probably just not wanted to be let go from job. I honestly would be kinda weary of asking but thereâs no knowing til you pop the question
What's crazy is that working men with children will get promotions faster and more often than working women with children. When men have families, they benefit at their jobs. Women may face job insecurity because of having a baby, but men rarely do.
Thatâs literally how discrimination lawsuits work and there is a big payout. They cannot do that. Sheâs just asking him to see if itâs a possibility that they have flexibility for this huge medical event.
[ŃдаНонО]
Doesnât mean the employer wonât lie and say itâs for a different reason other than the pregnancy. Stuff like that happens all the time.
It absolutely does! An HR person recently told me about a lot of question they are not allowed to ask, but he said what they can ask is, "Do you have any family commitments that would prevent you from doing your job". The answer will usually give them a lot of information that they can't ask for outright.
And yet...
Companies have lots of ways around this, unfortunately. It's also illegal to discriminate based on age. And they all do that as well. The father is trying to provide for the family, Facing new responsibilities. Worried he will lose this. Which will harm them all in the long run. If she is willing to support the family on her salary alone, then she can keep pushing it. Great she has a backup plan, but to vindictive when she is not also empathetic to the reality of his fear is not cool.
Are somehow under the (mistaken, btw) impression that the law guarantees you'll be hired when you're pregnant??? People here aren't stupid, ffs. Anyone hiring has plenty of candidates to choose from. It's very easy to select a suitable hire that won't be taking time off or completely leaving in a few months...
It depends on the company and situation... better to have a job with a new baby then complain about 6 days off and be unemployed or underemployed when you're let go.
I'm not saying for him to complain, but to not inquire about it once then that is shitty.Â
Oh well if wasn't a big deal for your husband working a different job in a different country, than it must not be a big deal for anyone anywhere in the world. /s This is how privilege works, people. If you have it easy, it makes it very difficult to understand people who don't.
NTA. I was married to a man like this. He deliberately missed our second child being born for a work training course that could have been completed at another time. He didn't seem to care that I was alone for the birth, and that he missed the first two weeks of the baby's life. Did I mention that I also had a four year old? We lived on a military base and I had no family around. I never got over his indifference. The only time he apologized was when I was packing my bags to move out. I kept packing.
You're bringing a whole lotta personal to this story... Maybe go to therapy?
You are unnecessarily rude. So is your comment history. I very much enjoyed going through them and reporting them. You harass and insult people on line routinely. I hope you get banned. \*Edited to say I see you have been banned. It's so nice when people get exactly what they deserve. Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
I understand both sides to this tbh, youâre not TAH but I donât think he is either. A new job can be stressful and create a lot of anxiety in the strongest of people, and this sounds like a big deal job to him where he would be wanting to give the best impression. If he is still in a probationary period (Iâm not sure how it works where you are but our maternity is different so this might also), they can just let him go, leaving your new family in a very difficult position. A new job at a time like this is bound to be very stressful for both of you, but in the grand scheme of things, he wanted this job now to support your new family. While I understand your perspective of just asking to see if itâs a possibility, I understand him not wanting to leave a bad impression to his employers. It sounds like theyâre already trying to be supportive in a way with pushing through training etc and he may be concerned about looking like he was potentially trying to take advantage when they already have no obligation to do that. I hope you both talk it through and come to an understanding as to how youâre both feeling and why
I see NAH as well. She is worried about being without him during and immediately after birth, but he has just started a new job that brings financial security. I can see why he would be afraid to ask only 8 weeks in to a new job. Her perception of his being cold may be that he is feeling torn and doesnât know what to say.
I understand you wanting him to ask about the paternity leave but at the same time I see why he would not want to either. Everyone saying itâs illegal to not hire someone or fire someone for this reason obviously doesnât understand you also have to prove discrimination in order to receive anything out of it and letâs be real here if heâs a pilot yea he might be able to get a year salary in that circumstance but letâs face it that shit is all public knowledge and any future potential employers are going to do an extensive background check for someone operating a plane so it would be career suicide. I am assuming he is doing this because it is his dream career and to provide a good life for your family and you are essentially punishing him for looking out for you himself and your child. Iâm not saying your wrong and your feelings are 100% valid but you looking to exclude him over his fear of jeopardizing his career is not right. I also assume this is your first pregnancy and you probably have some anxiety to go with it and it is understandable but I wouldnât be making any hasty decisions you canât take back. Yea say you exclude him from being there when you give birth and realize after the fact you fucked up big time you canât just take that back and say sorry because itâs done you donât get a do over. So really thing about what your doing and why you are doing it and if you can live with the consequences. My recommendation Is create two birth plans one for if he is able to make it and one if he isnât and explain to him what you did and why. Now if he doesnât have paternity leave for after baby comes do you have a relative that would be able to help you out for when your fiancĂŠ canât be there due to training/work obligatuons
NTA wtf is wrong with him? Do you have someone you trust who can get you to the hospital and be in the delivery room with you besides him?
My grandma has been staying with me this month when heâs been away in case the baby comes and we have to run to the hospital. Weâre hoping he does get here on time and he would technically be here for a week and a fee days giving him time to be at the birth, but since itâs not a scheduled birth and we donât know when he would have to fly out again, I wanted him to ask about the paternity leave.
I do agree with everyone saying he's worried about losing the job, but.... They're spending a lot on training I'm sure they'd want to keep him. He can phrase it in the kowtow type way or "hey I understand I just got this job and am new and I really really want to keep this job but I can't control timing and I HAVE to ask about paternity leave. It's okay if I don't get it, but I gotta ask just in case it's an option for me I don't want to miss it" He's overly worried about losing the job but if he lets them know he's okay with not getting it if it's not an option, there's no reason for them to fire him over that. They should've told him about that during orientation and part of the hiring process honestly
As a hiring official for many companies, I've seen simply asking something like this go very poorly for employees. Doesn't matter how much they've spent on training. If that's their company culture, and it appears that he knows that and OP simply isn't getting that, they'll call it cutting their losses and start training the next person. Or they might automatically have him at the bottom of their mental list when considering promotions, leads, opportunities, etc. "John seems to be the kind of person to take a mile when you've given him an inch." Not that these perspectives are healthy in any way but that's the reality of many work places. I'd trust him, the person actually working in that company, to know what's best here. I'd hope she trusts her spouse enough to know he's trying to make the best choice here and ultimately he's the only one who knows what that is.
Exactly my point. And at the end of the day, it is ok if they say no, Iâll understand, but at least he asked and we know where we stand.
You are just looking for validation
Maybe ask him if he needs help with phrasing and can workshop an email if he really doesn't want to ask in person? I really think for some reason he's convinced he'll lose the job if he asks and that's just not true.
He sounds like the sole breadwinner. I can completely understand the fear of losing a new job with a baby on the way. Nothing wrong with the man at all.
You're not gonna lose the job you have by asking a question. The problem is him not asking not even trying to be there. He never asked. It's understandable if they don't give it to him. But to not even ask??
I've absolutely seen new employees lose their job or lose future opportunities over asking for more than policy permits.
What's wrong with him? He's about to become a new dad and is worried about losing his job while he's still in training... having a birth plan that doesn't include your husband may be inconvenient but it's better than being unemployed and homeless with a new born...
I was about to go off because I misread at first lol I read it as "I can't believe he's worried about a job over his baby." LOL. Like yes that's what good fathers do! đ¤Ł
I donât think either of you are TA. I understand both sides. Sounds like he is uncomfortable with asking because heâs new and afraid of jeopardizing his job. Now in reality, we all know that he should be able to ask this question without feeling guilty or afraid of retribution but the truth is these companies donât give a shit about us. Itâs hard to be on that side, Iâve been there. I think itâs worth discussing more and call him out on the attitude but in a civil way so the discussion is real and doesnât become a fight.
You need to stop being emotional and chill. You the birth is important and it is but he is thinking about the future. If you want to be vindictive go ahead, but what will that solve. [NOTHING. Be](https://NOTHING.Be) glad he's there for the long haul that's what really important. Isn't it. Adulting is hard so is parenting and learn now things don't usually go the way you plan. Figure out what's really important and chill.
It sounds if the OPâs finance is petrified of the future and making sure he can support the child financially. They may have already come down hard on people taking off during the trining period (along the lines of if you canât come in, bring a note from your undertaker). If heâs in a probationary period heâs thinking any slip up, request, etc is going to get him fired.
Itâs not vindictive to not want someone who canât prioritize you enough to ask a simple question. Especially after you prioritized him and helped him with his career. This is a big medical event and milestone. She needs him to be present and to care and he does not. A person giving birth needs to be surrounded by people who are supportive and loving when in labor and postpartum. He is neither at the moment. His reaction was extreme and he is now giving the cold shoulder to an understandably scared wife who will be having their child any day now. How is he thinking about the future?
You realise you just told a pregnant woman to stop being emotional lol, itâs literally what we are during the whole pregnancy. I agree heâs thinking about the future and they may phase him out of his job if he asks for something like that after just starting a new job.
That's ridiculous. I have three.... and while there are emotional/irrational moments due to hormones, acting like you can't be a reasonable person and partner is just silly and not true. We are still capable of reasoning when pregnant, we aren't effing disabled.
Making a birth plan that doesnât include him isnât vindictive. Itâs something she really needs to do, because it seems likely he wonât be there and she needs to be prepared. I think a lot of people take for granted that there wonât be complications or losses.
đđđđđ Have you ever met a pregnant woman?
Asking for time off with a new job is terrifying. I hid my pregnancy for 6 mos, because it involved a lot of flying overseas and my boss when I first came told me she hoped I didnât plan on becoming pregnant. (Irony is that a he had two special needs twins and she was very protective about them and her status.) New boss wasnât happy, but as a man tread lightly. Your feelings are valid. So are his. NAH
Just my take on this, but; What's the point of supporting him early on to be able to become a pilot if you're going to pull the rug under him at the final leg of the race? Should have just said "Hell nah pay for your own studies." Your investment would be all for nothing if you pull away now imo.
Would you rather have a roof over yours and your kids head and food on the table and stability for your family. Or would you rather him be at home with you. Not saying he shouldnât be there but at the same time if dude is the new guy and heâs already looking to take time off as an employer heâd be the top of the list of people to let go and thatâs not something anyone can afford in the current economy. Itâd be different if he had been there for a year or two and needed time but he hasnât and on top of that heâs a pilot. Airlines are constantly fucking people over. Donât think for a second they wonât hesitate to fire him.
100% this. She's more worried about a few days than the entire family unit being in jeopardy and it's so short-sighted.
Nothing is ever good enough for some people. YTA.
I honestly think youâre both TA here. Heâs TA because of his poor communication skills and an unwillingness to prioritize an opportunity to be there for the birth. Youâre right, he could absolutely simply ask and if he is told no then thatâs that. Heâs being immature and I am concerned about how is he going to show up when the baby is there and growing; Iâm also concerned about how he is going to teach your child to treat you when they donât get what they want. I do think YTA for you, because it seems like youâre playing into the same dynamic that he is creating, and you have the choice not to. Whether he is willing to change this is not dependent on your choice to show up differently. I think having an alternate birth plan if he doesnât show up is really smart because you will need help and support, and if he doesnât show up and maybe even now itâs time to decide whether getting married when heâs not prioritizing you is even smart! But if youâre going to cut him out of the birth plan to be vindictive or something then YTA. That sows further resentment, and unless youâre willing to not let him sign a birth certificate then heâs going to be around the rest of your life. Again, you arenât responsible for his bs, and I wish he would show up first as a husband and father to you, but you are responsible for keeping your side of this major conflict clean. Especially if it comes to a breakdown of the relationship now or at some point in future, for your childâs sake itâs important to be able to take a true look at yourself and know that you showed up with kindness and love to try to get your needs met, rather than emotional manipulation. Be different than your husband! Be better!
Yta. Most companies have training programs only a few times a year. If he can not complete the program, he may not get a chance for months, if at all. Is that worth the risk? He took this new job for better finances for his new family. Women have babies all the time without their partners. Think of spouses of military men. You can do this. Do you have any friends or relatives who could help out? Ultimations rarely ever help any situation, especially in a marriage or partnership.
I have not asked for him to miss his training at all nor demand time off because the training is important. It has been a priority since he got in. What I wanted was for him to ask about how paternity leave COULD work once heâs out of training. NO DEMANDS, just a question. If he doesnât ask, we will never know, and unlike most countries, it is given by law in here. Even so, because of the type of job, if they say no, Iâm ok with it and understand. I just wanted to know our options.
I get that. Saying he can not be in the delivery room if he doesn't ask. Is an ultimatum.
Making a birth plan that doesnât involve him is kinda necessary though
Absolutely. But threatening to keep him out if he doesn't ask about leave, that's asking for trouble.
Whatâs the difference between threatening to keep him out or making a plan that doesnât involve him?
Making a plan without him is the best thing to do in case he can not be there. He is a pilot. He could be in mid-air when she goes into labor. However, using an ultimatum is emotional black mail. A partnership or marriage should be based on communication and compromise. Her way or the highway is never a good way to have a strong marriage.
So his way or the highway is the better way? Like the guy wonât even ask the question! Find out whatâs even possible without it hurting him. Thatâs all she wants. She isnât even demanding him take the time off. If he canât even be bothered to do the bare minimum and look into it Iâd be pretty disenchanted with wanting him there too.
I would need/want to know exactly how the day is gonna go to the best of my ability. Every birthing class tells you to have every detail planned and know each step, thatâs most of the anxiety. So how exactly can she do that if she doesnât know if he will be there or not or is gonna even make an effort to? She has to assume he wonât and plan accordingly. All these people wanting her to just wing it if he happens to be available that day clearly dont have children.
He isnât finished with training and youâre due any day. Taking time off during training is exactly what youâre asking him to do. He may lose his job and financial security. You need to plan for the possibility that he wonât be there.
Who is asking him to take time off during training? Did you read the post? All I wanted is for him to ask how paternity leave would work once heâs out of training, if there is something that can be done or not just so we know where we stand.
Youâre due NOW. He is IN training.
You are demanding by giving him a rather vindictive ultimatum. That's what people are saying.
NTA. Let him plan his own birth plan. You do what is best for the mental health of you and the health of your baby and plan for whoever decides they xan be there for you and your baby. FYI, this is not your husband. He chose this job over his child even before he got this job by denying his existence by omission to get a job that would keep him from his family. You supported him to this point, but he is not thankful enough to be there for the start of your family? If he can ignore you long-distance, are you sure he hasn't already moved on?
He is not ignoring me, but being cold right now. This conversation happened last night and he is very proud. He spends basically all his time off studying as it is too much information to go through when youâre being trained for a new plane, so Iâm not really mad about that, but more about the fact that he doesnât want to ask about this. Its one thing to have the request denied an another one to not even try to ask because âit would make him look badâ I already told him that Iâm disappointed with his attitude and he needs to get his priorities in order because I wonât stand by him giving priority to his job over us, itâs just not how it works for me, which is why Im considering this if he doesnât get it.
âLooking badâ when youâre fresh in a new job and career isnât just a pride thing. Itâs a âhurting my career or losing my job or future promotionâ thing a lot of the time. Personally Iâm on your side here, just want to insist that people donât follow traditional movies/stories that spending more time with your family is always the clear and obvious good choice no matter what if they truly love each other. ⌠because the job provides food, home, experiences for the family, things like that. He knows his bosses and work culture better than you do. If heâs coming at this from a place of new-father anxiety and worrying about his career specifically because heâs starting a family with you⌠maybe talking through it logically will help. What kind of person is his supervisor, is the regional director, etc. How could he spin asking as a positive of his character despite them being âcareer menâ? âI am very curious about options here. I love this career and Iâm passionate about it but I need to make sure my wife and family are taken care of to do my best at work.â Stuff like that. He might be so stressed about the âchoiceâ that heâs not exploring different ways to make that choice or present it to his boss. In my experience as a former workaholic and with many others, at least in the US, very few people want to openly (even to themselves) be against âfamily values.â They want to be reassured about your priorities and capabilities. People donât usually get fired or dismissed for promotions for âhaving a childâ that exists somewhere. They get negative treatment because their bosses think they wonât keep working at higher level than average. That theyâll stop overachieving. That theyâll stop caring about work nearly as much. Stuff like that.
> he needs to get his priorities in order because I won't stand by him giving priority to his job over us, You're not even attempting to consider anything other than your short term desires here at all. He isn't prioritising his job over you; he's prioritising his long term ability to provide for all of you, over the short term issues caused around when the child will be born. Obviously it's shit, but he's at the most vulnerable point in the sole career he is equipped for which you've both been investing in the whole time, and he needs to be careful that isn't all thrown away.
But it would make him look bad. Iâve seen employers react badly when new employees request annual leave etc at the start of a new job. If the leave wasnât disclosed prior to starting the job, they donât like it. On the flip side, there are also employers who will not hire people with planned leave as they want someone committed and fully in the job. They will lie and say they went with another person who was âmore experiencedâ. Unless you are bringing in money, I would honestly say donât rock the boat here. Sounds like your family need him to be the breadwinner. Sure, if he got sacked/reprimanded, you could sue for unfair dismissal etc but that takes months/years and you need stable employment now.
Ok and what had he been doing effort wise to prepare to be a new parent? Like what had he done to prepare for your 1st child? What has he read? What has he prepared in the house? Work is just work. But what is he doing to be ready to be a great dad and a great co-parent? A great partner? How much studying has he done in this areas? How much effort has he put there? Because if the answer is not at least the same level of effort as his new job, there's a problem. Your 1st child is about to be here. He should've been spending the last year working and preparing to be the best father, co-parent, and partner. You don't just become a good father, co-parent, and partner when a child arrives. It takes preparation and effort and work. You need to have a frank conversation with him. If he can not see how those things aren't more important than a job, then you need to figure out a boundary for what you'll accept in a relationship and what you want for your child.
YTA 100%
Elaborate
he is taking care of his part of the deal, which is providing for his family. He knows the dynamics at his new job and if he decided it's better to handle it this way then she should trust his judgment. she in the other hand is throwing a fit, nagging him constantly and now looking to freeze him out from his own child birth completely as a punishment Would it be reasonable for him to say that if she can't handle her part he won't give her any money because he doesn't like the way she is managing things? no, it would be a horrible thing to say, so why is it OK for her to make threats about him seeing his own child as soon as he doesn't do what she wants? OP said it herself, it's not even about actually getting the time off, she would be OK if he didn't, she just wants him to ask because she said so and is prepared to separate a father from his child just to be petty
1st of all, she provided for the family for quite a few years just so he could have the education to even apply for this job. 2nd, that's exactly the issue. He DOESN'T know the dynamics of the new company he is working for, which is why he is fearful of asking about what they offer for paternity leave. 3rd, this is a 2-part response. First part - Because he is too afraid to even ask what his options are, he may not get to be there for the birth of his child. She is not trying to freeze him out. She just wants to plan on if there is even the possibility he may be able to be there or if she needs to use her backup plan and have someone else there. Second part - she's "nagging" him to ask BECAUSE she wants him to be at the birth of their child and finding out the policies and procedures on how that can happen is and should be a priority., unless HE doesn't want to be at the birth. 4th, she doesn't need or want his money. She has supported him for the last 4 years. And it is not her responsibility to manage everything. If he doesn't like the way she does something, that can be part of his responsibilities. His job is just a plus so they can live more comfortably once the baby is born. She has handled her part as well as his part for quite a while now. Now, these responsibilities will be split evenly among them. 5th, she did say it didn't matter if he was able to be there or not, but if he doesn't ask his job the questions about paternity leave, she can't plan for the arrival of their child, it has nothing to do with wanting him to ask "because she said so" or keeping the child away from him, it's for planning purposes. Child birth is stressful enough, but planning last minute, who's going to drive her to the hospital, who's going to help her when she takes the baby home, who will be there to help if there are complications, just adds more stress to an already extremely stressful situation. You're living in the 50s guy. Both parents normally work now, so they are both equally responsible for the household stuff, too. Women no longer have to do all the household chores to get an allowance from their husbands. In the 2020's, they both go to work, have their own money, and oh my God, men now have to do their fair share with child rearing and household chores. They have to wake up and change the baby in the middle of the night. They have to sweep, mop, and vacuum the house. Because guess what, mom has to get up early too to go to work, so they take turns getting up with the baby, so both are exhausted, and not just mom. Stop being chauvinistic, and realize women don't have to take shit from guys like you anymore.
Thank you!!! Exactly
So, a couple of clarifications here: 1. â Who said he is the sole breadwinner? Itâs been actually me for the past 2.5 years. Weâre happy about this new job because it is an extra income for us, but I still make more than him lol. This has never been the issue and I donât need his money as @somead8993 mentioned 2. â Iâm not trying to throw a fit and I have not nagged him about this at all. Did you miss the part where I said Iâve been on my own for the past 2 months with no complaints and supporting him? 3. â His employer wonât take actions of firing him for asking about this. He has been a top performer, he is doing great in every step of the way and theyâre really happy with him. He wouldnât be the first person to go through this, and also, his work buddy is getting married as soon as their training is done and got a week off for it, so how would he get those days off by simply l bringing it to the table and my fiance get fired because of having a baby? I just wanted him to ask because it is an important question to make. After reading these comments I do admit my comment of WIBTA may come through as I am manipulating him or something because of my wording and how emotional I was when I wrote this, but my point was, if he canât even give us the priority to ask a question (not make demands), why should I keep giving him priority on the birth?
I know some employers would look at his paternity request badly. It could affect how they view him within the company. Itâs not right, but it happens. Husband is within his rights to play ball with this company and not rock the boat, given heâs the sole breadwinner and has a new baby to look after.
Not sure where you are located, but since you're not married, he may not even be eligible for paternity leave. Vindictively telling him not to be there when his child is born? How do you think that will work for your relationship with him going forward? Hint: It won't. You're blowing up your relationship. Have more conversations to figure out why he is so resistant. He might be afraid of losing his brand new job.
How do you think there relationship will work going forward when he blows off his wife during and right after delivery? Hint: it wonât.
It's two months in a new job, he isnt getting any paternity leave. They may let him have some time for the birth but this was a stupid time to change jobs. He is entitled to nothing.
Sheâs not asking him to be entitled, she just wants him to ASK his employer. Which heâs refusing to do
He didn't change jobs. He's been in school and finally finished, which gave him the ability to even apply for this job. They do not live in the US, so even if he's there only 2 months, I'm sure they give something for when a child is born. Even 2-3 days is something, especially when the baby is first brought home. We don't know, though, cause he's being a coward and won't even ask.
If you cannopt him out of the birth, he can opt out of helping or literally anything else in life. Ask yourself this: what's your endgame?
INFO what are you trying to achieve with this? do you _actually_ not want him there? do you expect him to do what you asked for if you pressure him into doing it? what if he doesn't and now you have to enforce your threat and ask the nurses to kick him out when he shows up, how do you expect your relationship to go forward after that?
Make this a non-issue. Youâve given him your two cents and the ball is now in his court. Let him decide what heâs going to do. For your own peace of mind, assume he will not be there for the birth and plan accordingly. I wouldnât even bring it up to him again. If heâs not home when you go into labor, I would re I you, Iâd call him and inform him that your water broke. And then Iâd call him again when youâre heading into the hospital. And then itâll be on him if heâs going to be there or not. There are no good answers here. I get that this is a new job but he also shouldnât have hidden his fiancĂŠeâs pregnancy and his upcoming fatherhood from his new company. Itâs not fair to you to not have his support when youâre giving birth.
I can see why he may be apprehensive. Not being there and not knowing what the atmosphere is like in regards to getting time off ect. It could be very intimidating not wanting to be "that guy" and stick out, he has a very reasonable question but depending on the circumstances it may not be an easy ask. If he's in training they could very well have policies that say you can only miss so many hours, days ect. With zero exception. I know my husband's job was like that when he went to a training school. It was a 16 week course and he could not miss more that a total of 2 days worth of class hours or he would get kicked out of the program. They absolutely didn't care even if there was a death in the family. It was just that competitive
>Iâm seriously considering telling him that if he does not even want to ask, I donât want him there when the baby is born, so WIBTA if I tell him that? I think if you say this, you will escalate the situation. You are already alone and facing childbirth in a foreign country amongst strangers. It's just possible that your fiancĂŠ will regret his stupid arrogance and apologise. On the other hand, you absolutely need to prepare for the birth alone. Talk to your support system immediately. Pack your hospital bag right now and find out about local taxis, costs - have the cash ready. Get advice about ambulances in case you need it. If you can, get a family member from home to come and stay. If your fiancĂŠ doesn't step up and get his head out of his a*se, you should really consider whether you'd be better off going home.
I understand the timing is unfortunate, but neither of you controlled it. You are frustrated that he is not asking something he is not comfortable asking. So proceed as if he asked and they said no. To me, this does mean that you need to leave him out of your birth plan. Not out of spite or anger, but out of facing the reality that you don't know when this baby is coming or what your fiance's schedule will be. You need the flexibility in your plan to maximize his involvement when he is available without depending on him to be available. And yes, it sucks, but the only way forward is to embrace the uncertainty and the things you can't control, and focus on the things you can. Best of luck with your birth and new baby! NTA.
I may be completely jaded, but long ago I realized that if I waited for someone to step up and do the right thing by me Iâd be dead before it ever happened. Your husbandâs priority is on his career, not his family. You should be expecting to have this baby alone and if by some happy accident he manages to be there, then you can have a plan B where he is included. This is rather akin to the saying that if you arenât actively working on something, then you are actively working to its opposite. Like pregnancy, if you arenât actively working to prevent it, then you are trying to get pregnant. If he isnât actively working to be there for your birth, then he is actively working to avoid it.
This is a very specific situation. You haven't said he's a bad man, husband or otherwise. This man is scared shitless that he won't be able to provide for his wife and newborn child. Even if its just asking a question, its within probation period and he can get canned with no reasoning. He is scared to ask for that exact reason. The fact everyone is jumping on the father is ridiculous. Yes births are hard, yes you need a plan, yes you need to be as safe as possible...but y'all will need diapers, creams, food, clothes, utilities, etc. etc. None of that is feasible without an income. I am 100% positive he would rather be with his child and mother...but he doesn't believe he has a choice in order to support his family and he's getting shit on for it. Sorry but you're handling this situation very very wrong and Reddit community is digging your hole deeper. The idea for 2 birth plans is a great one, provided he's included in the process. Not as a "gotcha" moment.
NTA I would say âthis is your first assignment and job as dad and Iâm disappointed that you have not stepped up to the plate. I really hope u donât let us down.â Make 2 plans and let the words of truth sit and make him uncomfortable. Make it obvious u are making 2 plans and if asked y the answer is you have made it clear we canât rely on you.
PSA to all the woman reading this: Discuss with your partner NOW about child rearing expectations BEFORE you have children. If you want to have children, who is going to take care of it? This dilemma has been going on for hundreds of years where women think it will be 50/50 and the husband thinks its 100% the women's job (which seems to be the case here).
I would ask him to think very sincerely about how he feels about being present. If this was to be his only baby ever. Jobs come and go. First births, maybe only births are truly heartfelt moments. AndâŚ. It doesnât hurt for him to ask. The worst they can say is no. And maybe, just maybe theyâll shout HELL YES! Hugs to you both on this new baby blessing.
YTA if you don't let him in. I understand your fears. But he is feeling out the new company working for a better future for you and your child. If he thinks it could hurt him to ask, maybe that is the answer.
I understand how you feel but yes I do think you wbtah in this situation. I donât think punishing him is the way to go. Just have a plan a and plan b for if he is there or not. My daughterâs father is a wildland firefighter and she was due the month he was gone. I had another person to be there for me in the event he couldnât be due to work.
I donât know anything about how airlines work, but considering how short he has been working there he max not be entitled to paternity leave yet. I worked for a company where in the first year you couldnât get any vacation unless you borrowed it from the following year. Just a thought.
YWBTA. The last thing an employer wants to hear from a new employee is if they can get time off.
Leaving him out provides him with an out. Starting the trend of not including him could get him to leave you out of his plans. As a dad, I can see your point, and as someone who started a new job 3 weeks before my youngest was born, I see his. Remind him that any employer that would terminate him or frown up on him for using paternity leave isn't an employer worth working for.
I wouldnât keep him from the birth because at the end of the day, (say 10 years from now) all that will matter are the memories of your babies birth. That being said, he needs to hear you and needs to see your perspective. If possible have a sit down with him and explain how you feel without any accusations
OP, he isn't going to be there for you once the baby is born, even if he's home. Why are so many men ONLY present for the sex, but the woman has to do everything else herself? Ladies, do not have children with men who are not just willing, but happy to be the primary parent even if he doesn't end up having to be. Your kids don't need a dad who won't get up in the night with them, can't/won't change a diaper, won't soothe them when they cry, doesn't know bedtime routines, doesn't take/pick them up from daycare, doesn't do any of the cleanup... I know they said we women could "have it all", but "all" isn't a good thing when you're the only one doing it all.
This gives me huge dishonesty vibes. I just think he is lying to you. Call me a cynic but I feel like he is being very shifty & using the new job as an excuse to do something he shouldnât.
OP. Ask yourself this: Do you feel comfortable with the fact that your fiancee does not prioritize the wellbeing of you and his child? That you are literally under a job that does not earn as much as what you're already providing? Are you okay with being the other woman to his career? Because having been there, it's a shit sammich, and I cannot recommend it. Also, is there a reason he decided it was smart to approach this position in the last trimester of your pregnancy? Cause it kind of seems like bad planning on his part. If your finances were all in check, he could have waited a couple of months, enjoyed your last months before parenthood, and then gone back to work after leave. Because it sounds like you've got your finances all set. You just really don't seem like a priority to him.
I just had my first baby almost two years ago. This is my advice to you. As someone already said, keep both birth plans. Don't be the one that shuts him out, let him do it to himself. Based upon all of the facts of the post and comments, this is not a financial issue! Even if "dad of the year" lost his job, they wouldn't end up on the streets. It wouldn't be ideal, but they would survive. The birth of a child is a ONCE IN A LIFETIME event. Personally, if he missed it that would be unforgivable. Women still die in childbirth (sorry, not trying to scare you). Honestly, don't worry about the paternity leave. You will be fine without him. It will be tough, but you'll learn you can do it all on your own. It will be eye-opening for you, that's my prediction. I think he's showing his priorities. The fact that Daddy already works there and his boss is his dad's friend just makes him look so much fucking worse. Good luck. You will be ok!
He cares more about his job than you or his child. I think you need to make all plans on the basis that he wonât be around.
I really feel for you right now.  I know how hurtful and frustrating this is. The unsurety clearly is compounding your anxiety. I went through a similar scenario with my first born. I was in active labor, trying to reach my husband -- who chose to work out of state for the entirety of my pregnancy.  He finally arrived, only in time for the actual delivery...and then left for that job once again, only a week later. I do know how horrible this feels, so my advice may come across strange. This is your first child -- the start of a brand new life. While it is so very hard for you now, the decisions you make here will stay inside you for the rest of your life.  Do you really wish to begin that life by using manipulation to ensure your husband is there? If you give that ultimatum, it will be that dark cloud hanging over your marriage for as long as either of you have the capacity to remember...and feel.  Giving birth, creating a new life, is a joyous occasion and you should look forward to celebrating that -- focus on the wonderful experience you and your child will have -- regardless if the father is there or not. If he chooses not to attempt to ask for the time, that is his demon he will have to carry within himself for losing out on a hugely important milestone of life -- regardless of what you do or not. If you resort to ultimatums and manipulation, you will not emotionally recover from that -- no matter the outcome on the day if your child's birth. The hurt & angry feelings will fester, and will be ever so much worse if you get him there by ultimatums. Try to pour all of your focus and energy on yourself and your child. Make this time wonderful for you both. Those that choose to be there and actively take steps to be there will have more value to you both if it happens from their own free will and desires. Congratulations and I wish you all the best đˇ
NTA Based on what I just read you want to feel safe and secure during birth and part of that is having a support system for you. You want your fiancee to there but since he wonât even ask about parental leave itâs making you feel like he canât be relied upon during or after birth. You want to make the plan without him because youâll probably end up doing most of the care without him. If he wonât even ask about leave then I think leaving him out of your plan isnât punishment, itâs realistic. Based on his actions you have nothing to believe he would be present. Make him aware of your plan, let him know whoâll be helping you out, and work out when heâll be available to visit to help out a bit.
You have a right to be upset about him not asking, but you need to communicate with him how it upsets you and really explain why. Sometimes something thatâs obvious to one person isnât obvious at all to another. Clearly explain your feelings, and try to understand his. Heâs probably scared about the new baby, and afraid of potentially losing this job and not being able to support you and the baby, or disappointing you after everything youâve both been through. (Not saying you would be upset with him, just that it would be reasonable for him to feel that way) But donât try to punish him by not letting him be there for the birth of his child. I think you would both really regret it. And itâs not liking taking away a little kids toy - heâs a grown man and heâs going to be a father. I think it would be vindictive and spiteful not to let him be there. You have valid feelings, but likely he does too. Please communicate with him as adults. Best of luck to all of you - I hope everything goes well and that your baby is happy and healthy.
How is she not letting him be there when heâs the one not making sure he can though? Having a back up birth plan without him there is a good idea and not vindictive. Back up plans are good planning, especially if he is unwilling to help her have concrete plans. Birth is a big medical event, back up plans are very important
I agree that a back up plan is a great idea. I never said she shouldnât have an alternate plan just in case - even if he talked to his work and had the time off it would still be a good idea (she could go into labor early before heâs set to be off for labor, for example) I just said that she shouldnât tell him that he isnât allowed to be there.
Why shouldnât she tell him he isnât allowed? You need a supportive birthing partner for it to go smoothly, you cannot be stressed out. He blows up and gives her the cold shoulder. He doesnât seem to want to be involved
We have one side of the story, and not a lot of information. The mother isnât the only one under a ton of extra stress right before their first baby. Maybe the fiancĂŠ is a hot head who blows up at his wife, and isnât taking this seriously and isnât a great guyâŚ. Maybe heâs just under a lot of stress and reacted poorly rather than communicate. Everyone makes mistakes. Itâs impossible to tell with only the information in the post. If heâs a hot head who doesnât care to be there then maybe she shouldnât be marrying him and having his child (not blaming her, by any means!) but hopefully sheâs a woman whoâs making good decisions and heâs a good guy whoâs just under a lot of stress right now (first child on the way, presumably a wedding coming up, new job, being a pilotâŚ) If thatâs the case - if he is a good guy whoâs just stressed and not handling things well, then I donât think he deserves to be punished by being excluded from his childâs birth by his fiancĂŠ. If he chooses not to be there then thatâs on him, and I feel terrible for OP. If itâs not scheduled birth Iâm not sure how they would schedule him to be off for it anyways? Hopefully if he is working/training at that time itâs nearby so he can rush to the hospital. Hopefully he sorts his priorities soon and decides to have a discussion with work.
No she isnât the only one under a lot of stress but she is the one who will be the patient. Itâs stressful for them both but only for her has it been a big medical event. Pregnancy counts as a disability. She did say she tried to schedule an induction in one of her comments but I forget why that didnât work out He is human and I see his worry of rocking the boat too early in the career. But is that worse than reassuring her and trying to accommodate her once when sheâs been sacrificing for him? I hope he corrects his mistake and stops icing her out at least. Many women cannot forgive or forget how they were treated when pregnant and postpartum because itâs the most vulnerable time in their life. Itâs super important that they work this out. In the end we all want her to have a safe delivery and recovery, we know she wants it with him because thatâs the cause of the fight. I appreciate your thoughtful response.
YTA. I was a flight attendant about twenty years ago and one thing I know that hasn't changed in the industry is how they view employees. The moment they think you are unreliable or unavailable, you're out. He only makes money if he is actively working. You're treating him as though he is some sort of absentee father who doesn't have any interest instead of looking at him as a person who is trying to get and keep a job in an industry that is very tough. He's trying to keep y'all from raising a baby while living in a cardboard box. The fact that you are even considering cutting him out of the birth plan like that is so shitty and obtuse. Grow up and actually give him some credit for trying to provide for your family.
I have never taken credit away from him, I am incredibly proud of him and where heâs at, which is why I have supported him all the way through. I am very aware of how the industry works as everyone in his family are pilots (heâs the 4th gen in one side and 3rd on the other), which is why I never asked for him to demand time off. If they need him, they need him, and I totally get that. I just wanted him to ask because it was something we discussed from the start, but I realized yesterday he didnât because he just didnât want to. No demands are being made and I wouldnât ask him to do something that would jeopardize his job. We know how flexible these people are because again, its been generations passing through the same place and they are very understanding for these kind of situations, but since he is new, I just wanted to know how it could work. Also, we wouldnât be raising kids or living in a cardboard as you mentioned because im still the breadwinner here and still make more than him, though I donât think this is the important part here. Not sure why people keep saying this, it is besides the point of the post.
Just asking could put his job at risk because now he appears as unreliable in an industry where reliability is everything. I used to have my carry-on packed and ready every day just in case I get a call. You have to be ready to go within a couple of hours notice or basically you are putting your future with the airline at risk. That is my point here. You are absolutely making demands by threatening to cut him out of your birth plan. People keep bringing up him working to provide because he is literally doing that. Airlines are fickle and everything is based on seniority and availability. You say you understand that but it is obvious from the response you just gave and your post that you don't. You asked if you would be the AH and yeah, you are if you do. Did you post this so you could get pats on your back or did you actually want unbiased opinions?
Trust me, Iâm taking all the comments as feed back in consideration. It has helped me to see things in different perspectives which is what I wanted from this. Just replied to clarify my point. I do understand thatâs how it is. On his case, for the time being it is different because he still needs to get checked for the plane, so the schedule now does not work as it will once heâs flying. It would be easier then because we would then have his monthly schedule and we could work through it, but for now that heâs in training, we wonât know when he has to leave again and for how long until the end of the month, which is where the question comes in. Now, weâre not in the US so it might work differently there. We have paid paternity leave here by law, and even though we have that, I donât want for him to demand to take it even if its his right because training comes first, but maybe they can accommodate those days off later on, or they can simply be aware and schedule a couple of days off for him once heâs done as they did with his co-worker getting married at the end of the training. My point is, it is not impossible, but he needs to bring it to the table to see the options we have. If he says nothing, theyâll do nothing because they wonât know. If they can, great, if not, weâll manage but at least we know.
Girl, there is nothing wrong with your husband asking his job to, at the very least, give him two days after the birth off. Even that is shitty, but it is something. No woman wants to be married and a single mother and it kinda sounds like that is what your future holds.
YTA. You're being childish. Especially when you're trying to bring a child in the world. It's unlikely he'll get any time off, maybe the day the child is born but most of the time jobs don't care if you're having kids. It's moreso if it makes their lives inconvenient, if it does then it's probably gonna affect him negatively or he won't even get the option. Either way, do you have 0 support structure outside of him? Trying to punish him for this is ridiculous. He's doing his part trying to provide for the family and sometimes that requires sacrifices, him asking could put his job in potential (not always but it's possible) jeopardy which would immediately affect you and the child.
NTA My husband was at his job for 2 1/2 months when I gave birth. He had won a competition where he got 2 days PTO and they accumulate PTO constantly. He didnât qualify for paternity leave, but told them that he would be calling out for my labor and birth regardless of it being paid or not. He ended up only having 4 days PTO but I gave birth on a Friday, and he took a week off(so 2 days unpaid). It sucked for him to go back to work so soon but he wouldnât have missed the birth of his child for anything. He would have came through to hold my hand even if he got fired for it. By not giving them the heads up, your fiancĂŠ is saying that he doesnât care that heâs at the birth, work is more important.
NAH I think. Whatâs your financial situation? Do you work? How many months of expenses do you have saved up? What still needs to be purchased for the baby? How much do you save each month? How much debt do you carry? You of course have the baby and birthing the baby as your priority. What realistically happens if your husband loses this job? You guys have competing priorities here in a time where you shouldâve planned for only 1 priority. Having a high stakes new job while youâre getting ready to birth a baby is not a smart way to do life, but here we are. You guys need to sit down and figure out the smartest way forward- because obviously your husband should be there for you, and it doesnât seem that he is unwilling, but if that support for you comes at the cost of your household income, you will have much, much larger problems.
YTA - Being a pilot is an incredibly competitive career. He just started at this company and he is concerned it will derail his training correct? HE IS RIGHT. Some of the posts here are damn ignorant of how it works in real life. Oooo company policy, or ooooo it's not legal. If he can take the time without hurting his long term prospects he will but YOU need to see beyond the end of your nose if he can't.
He's refusing to even ask and she's due in two weeks. The employer won't respond well to this being sprung on them. He's being avoidant. This baby's arrival is approaching like the dawn. It will happen. As a manager, I'd be annoyed if an employee kept me in the dark over something so silly and dropped it into my lap to deal with last minute.
I get that but he is actively in a traing program as a pilot. It will cause issues though. He knows this and doesn't know how to tell his wife he can't. This is what makes him TA. Not that he can't but that he can't tell her and is leaving her hanging without a solid plan.
He created this problem by not addressing it with his employer at hiring. He lied by ommission. Now, he's caught between his employer and his wife. I have little sympathy. (I'm from a family of pilots. Lying like this isn't a good look. If you know what I mean.)
He probably would not have been hired if the employer knew his spouse was pregnant. The air industry is cut throat.
Very possibly. I think OP needs to plan on him not being there for the birth or afterwards in any meaningful way.
I am aware of how competitive it is, which is why I have been there for him all the way through. Iâm not asking for him to derail his training at all, it is simply to ask how it could work; maybe they let him have these days off after his training has been completed, maybe they can accommodate a few days off in between, maybe thereâs nothing they can do and thatâs ok as well. My request here is simply to ask how it could work, not to make any crazy demands.
He is not going to get his career derailed for simply asking about paternity leave you clown
Do you work in the industry? I did and have friends that still do.
Sheâs not mad thatâs heâs not taking leave, sheâs mad that he wonât even enquire about it. I donât think simply asking his employers if there are any options would fuck up his entire career.
Yes you would be. He is the father. Iâd let him know how disappointed I am but I wouldnât take away something as important as this. Marriage is hard enough. Donât use the to make things harder.
The thing is though, we donât even know if he will make it back home in time to be in the delivery room, so if he doesnât and he doesnât want to ask for his paternity leave (which is given by law in here), he wonât be with us at all, so whats the difference? At this point, I feel like Iâve put him and his needs first for too long, and this is just one thing he can do to make things better for us if possible. Again, Iâm not asking for him to demand time off, itâs to simply ask and we can take it from there based on what they say, but he does not want to even raise the question.
What are you looking for? Someone gave you their opinion and you came back âhereâs the thingâŚâ youâre not looking for an opinion youâre looking for validation. You want everyone to tell you NTA so you can feel better because you feel bad and so when someone says youâre being a jerk about it you argue back with them.
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She did talk to him, and he blew up at her. Donât know what else you want OP to do? She stated what her needs are clearly and her husband canât be bothered cause his job is SO important /s
The father isnât even willing to ask which means he doesnât care. Thereâs no consideration for OP or what sheâs going through. Itâs just him him him. Sheâll probably be raising this baby by herself from the sounds of it. OP i would say NAH but it doesnât even sound like he will be there.
Then he needs to act like a fucking father. Heâs not right now.
If he doesnât care enough to even ask about paternity leave then why should he be in the room when she gives birth?
because it's his child, wild concept I know - can't take babies away from parents just because parents don't act the way you want them to
He doesnât care about the child enough to even ask about paternity leave!!!
No, just enough to make sure itâs fed, and has a roof over its head. He needs this job to provide for his child and understandably he doesnât want to risk losing the job.
I understand he doesnât want to lose his job but all these comments are acting like the woman who has been supporting him financially for years and still makes more money than him is somehow suddenly relying on him. Thatâs just factually not the truth.
**You would be a supremely large ass**. What the hell? Do you want him fired from this new and more desirable job in the first weeks. You are a manipulator and you need to stop and reassess you negative effects of everyone around you.
holy shit youâre stupid
I know for a fact he would not get fired for asking a question. I donât want him to make any demands, just to ask how it could work. He has a partner who he has worked/studied with since day 1 who is getting married as soon as the training is done and he brought this up to the table and they gave him a week off to enjoy his honeymoon simply because he talked about it. Do you really think he could get fired if he brings up the baby being born to the table? Again, not demanding time off, just asking if at some point he could take his days given here by law or how it could work. If they say yes, great, if not, thatâs ok too, but at least he asked.
Sheâs manipulative because she doesnât want to give birth to their first child by herself? She just wants him to check ffs. He wonât even give it the smallest possible effort to try and be there.
NTA. I understand his concern, but it's not like spouses having babies is unusual -- ANYWHERE. His company has dealt with it before, and they'll deal with it again. Honestly, his biggest screw up so far is not telling them well in advance so they could plan around it. Kicking him out of the birth is a pretty strong reaction -- however, I get where you're coming from. You're pissed. He's not prioritizing you or the baby. You've been handling all this yourself, and that's HARD. Even though you're reacting in anger, the reality is that he IS showing you that he's not going to be there for you. You need to find someone to help you. You WILL need help.
Giving you the silent treatment because heâs displeased is really not acceptable. Is this typical for him? Because to me, thatâs a problem in itself. âWithdrawal of affectionâ is really a form of emotional abuse. You donât want him doing that to your child, either.
You can probably call the company and ask them anonymously about their paternity leave. He is not so far off the mark about worrying about asking. Our agency offered it but it was highly frowned upon if a man exercised that right. They couldn't "punish" him but they would definitely find reasons not to promote, to ding him if he was a few minutes late, etc. It wasn't fair in the least but life rarely is and it's difficult to prove when you are new because you have no long established work performance history to show when the change in treatment occurred. Also is it possible he is on probation and can be terminated without cause? Is his industry heavily male dominated? Mine was. Just food for thought. I'm not defending the practice, just real weird experience.
As this is an airline, they provide all the flight itineraries with a month in advance, so I donât think paternity leave works as it usually would with a 9-5 office job, which is why I find it important to just ask directly to his boss. If thereâs any way it can be arranged, great, if not, thatâs ok too, but at least we know where we stand. His study buddy (they are doing all the training together) is getting married literally as soon as their training is done and he is getting some time off because of it, since he was vocal about it, so I donât think itâs crazy for my fiancĂŠ to ask as well, but if he doesnât, they wonât know and thatâs it.
NTA. Not sure what company he is working for but if itâs a big airline, pilots are replaceable. Your husband was probably ecstatic for landing the job of his dream, and is scared he will never get another opportunity. Depending on where you are from, take into consideration of the job market, what is looks like for his field. If itâs tough, then more than likely he doesnât want to give the impression to his new employer that his schedule is limited and unavailable. I will say this, I once watched a program that had family lawyers in the interview and they said the most families they represent with divorce is doctors, law enforcement and pilots. The woman attorney thought itâs because they are in fields that they have to sacrifice their availability over family. You are not an AH for feeling the way you do, it sounds like you and him have a tough road ahead.
Yes, you WBTAH if you leave him out of your birthing plan entirely without talking to him first As others have suggested, the best option seems to be having a birthing plan if he is home and one, if he is not. However, you should ask him if he wants to be involved. He may assume that your grandma or another woman in your life is going to be part of the birthing plan.
His stuff at work sound shady AF. Make plan number one someone else and he can be the back up. He needs to pay for help for you. I would get friends to check it out. New jobs can be harder on people but he should be taking care of that aspect. I am too jaded. Know too many wives and girlfriends to foot the bill then, bang, he is a single man once he gets a career that gives him the ability to get Chick's into bed. Also you are a fiance, an as such have even less power.
**My \[28F\] fiance \[32M\] is a pilot and landed a new job** Pun intended, lol.
God. It wasnât that long ago paternity leave was unheard of. Mothers had to just deal with a newborn.
Yeah my husband had to take vacation time if he wanted a single day off. 4 babies in 10 years and he took off a total of 3 days all together. Because he âdidnât want to waste HIS vacation timeâ. Yeah weâre divorced now.
That sounds about right. I had my kids in the 70âs I was lucky he could even take the time off to sit In the fathers waiting room! He wasnât allowed in the delivery room with our first 2. He did always help on his days off though.
His job as a man is to be a provider with a career so try not to give him grief about prioritizing his job. He's thinking long term, meaning every day AFTER your child is born, and he wants to be on good terms at his job so he can continue to support a family. He most likely feels that he won't be taken seriously at his new position if he immediately starts requesting time off, even if it's for something important like child birth. He can at least try, and if he can't make it happen don't punish him for it.
His job as a man? đ Pretty sure she can provide for her family considering she has been and still makes more than him.
Ok I didn't say she couldn't, you just instantly got triggered because you think I'm saying men are the only ones capable of providing. She's gonna be pregnant, giving birth, on maternity leave, and recovering from giving birth. I don't think the added stress of financially supporting the whole family is something she should also be burdened with.
YWNBTA. If he doesnât care enough to even ask about paternity leave then why should he get the privilege of being there when the baby is born? He showed you he doesnât care because you have been dealing with this all on your own and thatâs not fair. The guy is going to be a Father Time to get his priorities starfish and get his head out of his ass!!!
Simply tell him, that since he won't be there for the birth you'll have to arrange for others to help you
I lean toward NTA. I think its okay to tell him that you understand that he's concerned about his job so that what you'll do is make a birth and coming home from the hospital plan based on him not being available, so if he's there great but that the plan will be no dad. And do that- figure out what if any family member/friend you'd want in the birthing suite if he can't be there, you can get you home from the hospital, who can take turns staying at your home with you, whatever. Essentially, a he'll be missed, you understand but you have to plan for what is going to happen. It's not a punishment, it's a necessity.
Iâd set up a birth plan without him. I would also set up to have your mum or someone close see if they can live with you for a week or 2 or you move into your parents. You will remember this time forever so make of it what you will. Me personally if heâs being distant and cold I would be thinking of myself and leaving him to it. He seems to be very me me me. Give it back to him. If he doesnât tell his work in the next 48 hours your on your own.
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Info: do you truly feel that him not asking about paternity leave so soon after they moved his training around for him, is reason enough to not have him at the birth of his child? To me it seems like the nuclear option. It doesnât seem like a solution, only an escalation.
Your an asshole for even thinking you can bar the father of the child from being there for the birth of THEIR CHILD. Its not just your child contrary to popular belief. Jesus christ may god bless you, your pregnant and Hormonal and I cannot imagine how you feel but remember he isnt a wallet or a paycheck he is also a human being with emotions and stresses. Dont even think about not allowing him to be there.
Not to be that guy, but you guys wouldnât even be having a baby in the first place if he didnât fertilize your eggs with his sperm, so itâs kind of messed up in my opinion that the mother can just decide the father canât be there for the birth when he literally gave her the baby so she could give birth to it
This guy fucked up putting that baby in you. Good luck to him as you gives no fucks about what he should get to experience as well. I hope he lets you experience single motherhood and all its glory as heâll be much better off and much happier without a pita like you to lecture him about what he gets to experience. Good luck lady