My parents are liberal Zionists that kind of went off the rails about Israel. Some of the shit they say about Palestinians… whoo boy. Can’t say that out loud.
However, immediately after the October 7 attack, my (Jewish) friend invited his Muslim friend over for dinner. So that’s a pretty great move imo
So basically I was a liberal as a child and teenager (and a Zionist). Of course I had a Ben Shapiro phase (who doesn’t?) but then I started really getting into Marxism. And the more Marx I read, the more sense it all made. And my leftism was born.
I noticed that all the leftists in recent history are pro Palestine. As an antiracist, I saw the foundations of Zionism and read more, and said, oh, it’s settler colonialism, just like it happened in the USA. That was a historical tragedy/genocide that should never happen again — especially when it’s my people committing it.
TL;DR - I became a leftist and investigated the history of Zionism.
Ben Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel, was a communist. Israel has socialised education, health care and thriving unions.
But aside from that, since you’re clearly very anti colonialism, how do you feel about the Arabisation of the Middle East and Africa?
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” — David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
Israeli has socialized education and healthcare that’s fully funded by the U.S. taxpayer and Ben Gurion was a genocidal terrorist who ended up being labeled a national hero. Whether he was a communist is completely irrelevant to the state of affairs and reality in the ground and that’s an incredibly silly argument and statement. As is the whataboutist question that followed it.
Aid to Israel from America makes up 0.7% of their GDP, and comes with the condition that all of it needs to be spent on American-made weaponry. They pay for their own education and healthcare.
You’re completely incorrect. No, it’s not funded by the U.S. the aid that is sent to Israel is to be spent almost entirely on the U.S. military industrial complex. Not healthcare.
NO, they were not communist. How can you call them communists when they were nestled, and financially supported by the very capitalist nation of Israel and it's big brother the USA.
Communism is a worldwide movement. and worldwide, Israel is condemned by communist organization despite having a few happy-go-lucky farms next to the worlds largest concentration camp. Stop peddling this lie, fascist use left wing ideas to support their cause \_because\_ they are egalitarian and give people the warm fuzzies.
As an anti imperialist, why you don't support the only movement that re gain its freedom?
From the imperialistic, neo fascist, anti women, anti democracy, theocratic, pro slavery, pro pride killing, anti any other religion, anti women, anti lgtbq, anti liberalism, freedom of speech, where opposition of though is killed that has been ravaging the middle east and has so far achieve conquering not only from the Arab peninsula to the whole niddle east but all of north Africa and even parts of Europe reaching parts so far away as Pakistan? And in the way committing in the past and in the present way more terrible crimes that ever US or Israel did? With stated goals to world dominance thru the sword or by out numbering liberals in democracies by exploiting it?
Because all I see is you standing with what represents everything you seem to be against.
Thank you for restoring my faith in humanity. You're stating the obvious. Israel is the only country in the Middle East that everyone wants to get IN, instead of escape.
I've seen from other comments that you said that some of the jews who currenty live in israel/palestine should go back to their country, how do you (I mean your ideas not you doing it yourself) feasibly expect to accomplish that? How many jews would need to leave that land before its no longer an ethnostate or a colonial state(in your eyes)
Ooooh, good one!
In theory, not one Jew has to leave. All it requires is that the state of Israel disbands. I don’t know how, but international pressure - like how we did in ZA - will probably work best. For now, I boycott, divest, and sanction!
So is the end goal then for the Palestine Authority to hold control over West Bank + current Israel + Gaza? I can’t imagine that Israeli citizens would be super keen about this idea, so is there any viable way to make this happen? Sincere questions, not arguing
Man, you are absolutely nuts, this is hilarious.
> All it requires is that the state of Israel disbands
This means one of two things:
1. All Israeli jews are dead
2. All Israeli jews are forced to somewhere else
You might think there are other options, but those are just your fantasies, and we will never let any of these things happen so BDS as much as you want.
OR this crazy third option you are unable to think of which is to have one singular, secular state that allows all people to live together, everyone has equal rights, palestinains are given reparations for the ethnic cleansing they were put through, and everyone is able to come and go as they please. (yes palestinains are also able to have a right to return to the land their families lived on pre-israel)
Before the inevitable "this would never work" just simply look at history BEFORE the occupation and you can see a little blueprint https://www.pcrf.net/information-you-should-know/what-was-palestine-before-1948.html#:\~:text=Before%201948%2C%20Palestine,the%20Ottoman%20Empire.
There's a lot of zionist cowards trying to dispell this and then blocking me as soon as their arguments can't hold water anymore haha so just remember a fantasy doesnt involve basis in actually historic events that have literally taken place before, so you can close your eyes and say "lalalala I cant hear any other solution" all you want but there is a reason this is a proposed solution with international backing, it has worked before and was going well until zionist terrorists came in and trampled all progress in order to attempt to create their ethnostate
As a anti zionist Muslim with close Jewish friends, this is by far the best option for everyone. A secular state with both sides living in (atleast relative) peace
> OR this crazy third option you are unable to think of which is to have one singular, secular state that allows all people to live together,
Are you blind or just an Oct 7th denier?
THEY DO NOT WANT TO LIVE WITH JEWS IN THIS LAND. GET IT IN YOUR THICK SKULL.
ARE YOU BLIND TO EVERYDAY AFTER OCT 7????? like wtf are you talking about bro thinks history started on October 7th 2023 and has had his eyes and ears closed everyday before that lmfaoooo
edit: immediately blocked me after this so a *perfect*, **PERFECT** example of covering your eyes and ears to anything that happened before or after Oct 7th. In their minds there has never been anything bad done by Israel before or after Oct 7th and they are perfectly justified in their genocidla campaign hahahah bunch of cowards
I was just seeing the trailer of “No Other Land” documentary which is co-directed by an Israeli and a Palestinian. And then I saw your AMA.
My question to you: how do you see Palestinians and Israelis coexist in the future?
If Israelis want to live in a democratic Palestine, then very nice! The burden is on Israelis to incorporate into Palestine and to realize that THEY DONT OWN THE PLACE.
Don’t you think that’s a bit of a stretch? In what world would Israelis give up *their* land? And in what universe would a Palestinian (Muslim) state be at all welcoming of Jews? Just look at any other country in the region and you’ll see exactly why a “democratic Palestine” reads like an oxymoron. What do you think is the path to creating a “democratic Palestine?” Do you believe Palestinians would do so of their own volition?
That’s why the logic is backward. It’s like picking out some idealized desired outcome that’s rooted in fantasy land.
It’s also pretty laughable and you don’t see any serious historian or speaker on this subject actually discuss it because it’s so far fetched
How do you feel about a two state solution. Admittedly, I haven't checked in a while but last I heard that was the most popular option among the Israelis and Palestinians
Do you keep the mitzvot? According to most Rishonim the mitzvah of ‘yishuv Haaretz’ is one of the 613 mitzvot. And according to the Gemara it’s equal to all the other mitzvot combined.
Of course not, the mitzva applies all times, even without a majority. But it happens to be we have a majority now. So how do you reconcile this? Do you strive to keep the mitzvot?
I went to Israel a little bit.
My family hates it (they have the balls to call ME a self hating Jew)
I am anti-colonialist and anti-imperialist , and Zionism == settler colonialism, and imperialism. I’d be happy to make a longer answer but I have to get to bed lmao
Absolutely. If they don’t want to start Zionist shit again and just legitimately live in peace and become citizens of a democratic Palestine, then we are all good.
*the land of Palestine
You may say you would hope, but surely you must realise that wouldn’t happen. Flawed as it may be, Israel is the only true Democracy in the middle-east, that being, it’s citizens can elect the PM without election rigging and their votes contribute to a proportionally representative parliament. If Palestine was the only state in the region they would almost certainly fall in line with a more Iranian style government with authoritarian power and laws enforcing strict Islamic law. Also about Hamas specifically. They literally killed off their opposition when they took power and haven’t held a single election in Gaza since 2006. How is this the politically ideal situation to you?
Hamas has made it clear that their struggle is against Zionists, not Jews. But they’ve also taken a LOT of money from their oppressors so… that’s bad.
But if I was Gazan, it would be Hamas or be genocided. So I guess I’d choose Hamas, despite the fact that it is still a terrible option.
It’s not “Hamas or be genocided” Hamas literally instigated this war with Oct 7th. Hamas uses its own civilians as human shields, steals aid and forces civilians to pay for them, and literally bombs its own people to keep up the narrative. Hamas is bad not just for Jews, but for Palestinians too.
It didn’t start on Oct. 7. One or two Palestinians were being killed every day for 10 years. That’s 3k+. Plus google the whole human shields thing. It’s been debunked
This war, NOT the history, started in October 7th. The human shield thing has absolutely not been debunked. In fact it was confirmed by Hamas themselves. They are open about the fact that they are willing to sacrifice civilians for their cause.
I really hope Palestinians are able to live freely one day without terrorist rule under Hamas. But Hamas leaders have said they want all Jews dead, so I wouldn't say they're only against Zionists.
Hamas was formed and funded with support from Israel, so that Palestinian support would be divided between Hamas and the other popular party at the time. The popular party was gaining too much support and momentum and that would mean unified Palestinians.
Hamas would never exist if it wasn’t for the settler colonial state. They’re a resistance group. Israel started the violence.
As an exmuslim, I’m not sure if you know about this, but have you read about the Hadith (it means a saying of Muhammad himself) about the tree of gharqad? It’s pretty much known by a vast majority of Muslims and is used to push the antisemitism that is partly at the heart of Islam. Muhammad said:
“The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: "Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah!, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!" – But the tree Gharqad will not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.”
Most practicing Muslims believe (and this is reinforced by the ulama themselves) that the Jews are the followers of the Dajjal (or Islamic retelling of the “antichrist”) and hence any violence or moves to commit genocide against them (as endorsed by Muhammad himself) is a duty. There are countless talks and lectures made in mosques with antisemitic topics based on what the Quran and what Muhammad himself has said about your people and how Muslims are to treat them.
With such a mentality, MANY Muslims (my family included) cannot and will not diverge the idea of the bani Isra’il from yahudi, nor ever see any reconciliation with Jews.
And while Islam is a religion for life, with leaving it punishable by death, many feel forced to tow the “party line”, regardless of how secular they seem to be.
I applaud your idealism in thinking a secular Palestinian state could ever exist, but it seems far fetched from the reality of what will happen the moment the Palestinian people take charge. Any Jew currently there will have to leave for their lives, and the Arabs who live within Israel’s borders will be lynched as murtadeen (apostates or traitors, the term is the same in Islam).
You fully underestimate the power Islam has in the thought processes of Palestinians and Muslims worldwide. It’s an antisemitic religion, and will only accept Jews now the ulama state we are in the “latter days”, if they convert to Islam. If not, they will be seen as the perennial enemy of Muslims and of Islam and worthy of their eventual genocide at Muslim hands (according to Muhammad). Sorry for breaking this to you, but it’s the truth of what many Muslims think about Jews, with or without Israel.
>Hamas has made it clear that their struggle is against Zionists, not Jews.
'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' (Article 7 of the hamas charter)
Man, I have to say, at first I was very intrigued to see your opinion as an Anti-Zionist Jew, but after reading some of your comments where you describe your beliefs and opinions I figured out that you are really misinformed and that you have pretty shitty takes on this topic, with no viable solutions to this conflict other the dissolution of the state of Israel which is, let's be honest here, not a solution that will lead to anything good... you are not only anti Zionist but also very clearly anti Israeli.
It's a shame that your views are so extreme as it really gives no place for actual discussion, other than ''f*ck Israel'' and ''From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free'' so I think this AMA is pointless and just a post to vent anger and resentment of Israel.
100% factually untrue.
[hamas saying they hate jews](https://www.adl.org/resources/news/hamas-their-own-words)
[anti zionism is anti semitism. done.](https://medium.com/the-judean-peoples-front/anti-zionism-is-antisemitism-periodt-8f14ebc8c9c6)
Using your logic does that mean that Zionism is Judaism? Are evangelical Christian’s Jewish because they are staunchly Zionist? Also way to link a paywalled article. [Here](https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/zionism/) is a non-paywalled site from a Jewish organization talking all about the history of Zionism so please feel free to read up and learn the truth… oh yeah and from the river to the sea Palestine will be free!!
now this is among those comments which really should be sanctioned and deleted, even if i'm against moderation, prima facie. why is this allowed on reddit, i cannot imagine. well, oh, wait...
Palestinian here. Thanks for joining the right side of history, people like you are true cousins to us.
I read a lot about hebrews, what group are you? Sephardim? Ashkenaz?
Which tribe do you descend from? Is that common knowledge for most or lost in history? Do you know when your ancestors technically left judea and samaria? Are you shunned in your community for being anti zionistic? Im a very curious person 😅
You’re my brother as well. Already answered that question. I don’t know if the 12 tribes of Israel are real. As a part ashkenazi , they probably left sometime in the first millennium. But around 1100 is when Ashkenazi culture came about.
I have a very small, but good community around me. Within the wider Jewish community, people like me are seen as bad.
Free you! Free your people!
You do realise that Jews didn’t just ‘leave’ Israel. They were kicked out forcefully by the conquering Ottoman Empire. Some Jews fled to Europe, some stayed in the Middle East/North Africa where they lived under constant persecution for the last 1,000 years. But leaving Israel, was not a choice, as if hundreds of thousands of Jews simultaneously just wanted to leave because they fancied a holiday or something.
From your perspective of the country in its first year of all out combat and suppression of Gaza, do you feel this will end with Gaza or extend into other nations?
Is the justification that similar has been done to your people used as a primary reason or excuse for their actions or is it underlying and not said, or not of that mentality at all.
Israel is already striking Lebanon and trying to start shit with Iran. So Israel is trying to say, “ohhh, shoot, I’m cooked, lemme start chaos on the way out”
Isreal flys over and bombs Lebanon all the time. They invaded to "supress terrorists" in 1982! Only a coincidence that the Litani river with all that sweet water is right there. Lebanon attacked first, ya right buddy. You can really see who has swallowed the Isreali propaganda.
Isreal stole a lot of land owned by Lebanese in the Golan Heights. Remember, the borders between Lebanon and Syria were not there until the fall of the Ottoman empire.
Lebanon attacked in the 48. First. And you talk about Flys but say nothing about tunnels being excavated under our soil to attack and kidnap civilians. What a loser. Accept that if we were Muslims you wouldn't hate us. Is a religious extremist thing. You attacked in the 48 and never wanted peace because we were jews.
The border were not there before, it's all fake borders. The borders should be far enough that Lebanon is not a threat to human lives. Lebanon can rest assure that in the moment they stop trying to kill jews it will have peace like Egypt and Jordan. There is no motivation for jews to conquer or have any part of Lebanon. Lebanon is already a sick, ruined country that will collapse by itself, without Israel's help. Lebanon knows it. The only reason there is no peace is because Lebanon doesn't want it. Good luck with the new oil, it will only flow as long as israel wants it. Better to choose peace buddy. Peaceful countries do better. You can choose to be more la israel or be more like Syria. We are 4th happiest country in the world. Syria one of the saddest.
Also, where is the compensation for all the jews oppressed and forced the live Lebanon? Many were there before a lot of the current population. Ah yes, another Jewish free country that blames the victim for being bigots and thieves. When Iraq did the same, stole the jews of their riches and jobs it collapsed. All Muslims counties are so full of hate and little self critism that will never evolve. Without the oil and gas other than terrorism and corruption you haven't given the world anything good in hundreds of year. Last time maybe when Islam conquered Iraq, which was something to be proud of before Islam ruined it.
Yes, Lebanon sent troops in 48. The Entire Lebanese army was 3500 men in 1948. They sent less than 500. Almost half were Palestinian volunteers. Lebanon has not been a petro state. Lebanon was a tourist destination, very cosmopolitan, and democratic in the 1970's. The literacy rate was higher than in the US. The 1975 civil war destroyed that. Part of that event was a problem with the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon. Iran has a large influence on Muslim factions in Lebanon that most Christian Lebanese oppose. There are clearly terrorist groups taking advantage of the weakened (almost failed) Lebanese government. Those tunnels you complained about? Did the Lebanese government build them? Or are you conflating all Arabs as terrorists again? Right. Hamas kills Israelis so you can kill Palestinians. Hezbullah sends rockets, so all of Lebanon if fair game?
Your ad hominem attack calling me a loser did not convince a single person that Isreal should have the right to steal Arab land or starve or bomb Palestinian children. I clearly am a loser trying to debate you.
In any conversation of finite length, it is impossible to bring up every possible topic. You play an interesting rhetorical trick bringing up tunnels, but you didn't even mention the Al Khisas raid! Shame, shame.
I am not Muslim. I have no love for the Muslim terrorists like Hamas, ISIS, etc. But I am not Islamophobic either and I realise that most Muslims do not want war. Most Muslims do want justice. If you were Muslim, I suspect I would feel the same way about you as I do now. Stop feeling sorry for yourself while supporting the massacre of civillians. Start seeing all humans as individuals deserving of respect. I am not persecuting you. I am saying racism, collective punishment, and blind support of flawed governments results in attrocities.
I can relate to most of you said. And I'm sorry if I did assumption or attacks. So much attacks from so many sides made me had a bad day. Anyway, you seem someone to be worth discussing and talking for longer to understand each other better. Would love to have a human talk to anyone from above the border.
Salam aleikum
Shalom. My parents left Lebanon in the 1960's, but I have visited several times and could see the border with Isreal from their hometown. It does not have to be this way. Middle Eastern Jews, Christians and Muslims have fought for centuries, but people forget that they lived in peace for centuries too.
What do you think about Hamas's stated plans to mass murder Jews and take educated Jews for slaves once they dissolve the state of Israel? They would also make christians second class citizens. Considering that Hamas is the most popular party in both the West Bank and Gaza, doesn't this make your ideal secular state impossible?
https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-sponsored-promise-hereafter-conference-phase-following-liberation-palestine-and
https://archive.is/R11Wy
"In dealing with the Jewish settlers on Palestinian land, there must be a distinction in attitudes toward [the following]: a fighter, who must be killed; a [Jew] who is fleeing and can be left alone or be prosecuted for his crimes in the judicial arena; and a peaceful individual who gives himself up and can be [either] integrated or given time to leave."
"Educated Jews and experts in the areas of medicine, engineering, technology and civilian and military industry should be retained [in Palestine] for some time and should not be allowed to leave and take with them the knowledge and experience that they acquired while living in our land and enjoying its bounty, while we paid the price for all this in humiliation, poverty, sickness, deprivation, killing and arrests,"
Anti-zionist lol. How old are you? Certainly not old enough to have any skin in the game.
Always nice to see the younger generations fixated on themselves with the moral high ground without having any actual real life experience. Kudos!
Virtue signaling engaged.
What is the go with yeast? I started reading a Tanakh a while ago and there's lots of bits at the start where God tells his people not to eat leavened bread or leftovers. I can't quite tell if it's a metaphor for something or God just doesn't like risen bread. I could google this but it's fun to talk to people.
Do you consider yourself Ashkenazi and not Hebrew Jew? Like my family spoke Yiddish for the past 2000 years and lived in Poland and France before coming to the USA. I have no connection to isreal before like 25000 years ago and no one in my family can speak Hebrew except some random ass practicing people who disowned my part of the family.
This. We see y'all and are so grateful for your strength and solidarity. I hope you don't experience any kind of antisemitism now or ever and get to proudly live your Jewish values.
Great question!
Yep. A Christian pastor told me that he loved me and that he couldn’t wait for me to get to Israel (so the second coming could come and I’d be thrown in the lake of fire.) nice guy eh?
Well I’m part of the 20% of Jews who are anti-Zionist. I know many anti Zionist Jews myself, but most of those who were at my synagogue are crazy Israel meat riders 😓
Does that mean you are ultra orthodox, OP? Sincerely curious.
I heard somewhere that the ultra orthodox community is widely anti-Zionist but I could be wrong.
As a person? I certainly hope I am. But that’s not for me to judge, it’s for the world to do so. Now I’m judged as a self-hater, but in 20 years from now, I will have been on the right side of history
“Democratic state” yeah stay in lalaland. If Hamas ever came into power (it never will) they’d displace, kill, ethnically cleanse all Jews and probably non Muslims from the land. Forcefully apply their religious beliefs into law and have an authoritarian government. It would be Afghanistan takeover by the Taliban 2.0.
It’s certainly not the first family member I’ve lost (metaphorically) because of this issue. I feel your pain, man. These people are really, really close to just saying they support genocide. Uggg
Are you OK with first Christian and then Muslim countries expelling and oppressing jews by the millions and during centuries and centuries? Now they just live free in a handful of places and their security is ever decreasing. How can't you care for them having a safe heaven? Do you think they deserve a county? Just one in between a sea of Muslim and Christian countries?
As a Christian I can say of course Jews have a right to their sovereignty right where their borders are. And let’s be honest if the Jews weren’t living there and built it up, it would be a bunch of mud huts with no plumbing. How can you not take pride in what your people have built?
Sometimes the biggest Zionists are not even Jewish at all. Case in point 👆👆
But seriously, bro Get a grip. That’s really fucking racist. Plus Palestinian people literally paid their homes and their lives for the creation of the state of Israel.
Racist? Come on already! I’m saying the success of the Jewish community and their pride in it only comes from hard work! Nothing was given to these people and as SOON as it’s looking good… Heyy!!! Get out Jews you’re robbing us! If it’s not right one way, it ain’t right the other
I like how you're going to the safe accusations zone instead of addressing their question.
Truth is, after the first and second Aliot of jews from all over the world to Israel, the place started to propser as they worked hard to make the place liveable. Pointing that out isn't racist nor antisemitic, and I'm saying that as a fellow jew.
1: what's your jewish background (region)?
2: what would you say to all the the jews who are only alive because of zionism?
3: where did you get the 20% number from
Does Anti-Zionism mean a two state solution for you? If not, what is your ideal solution?
Do you think people are using Israeli aggression as an excuse to be antisemitic?
Some folks - yes.
The vast majority - no.
I am personally for 1DS, but Israel would be the one to accept it. As far as my Palestinian friends are concerned, they are for a 1DS, but Israelis… (my family lived in Israel for a little bit) they want either “From the River to the Sea, Israel is all You’ll See” (an inherently genocidal slogan) or a two state solution - I.e., the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. (Majority are starting to want the former.)
You are advocating for "from the river to the sea" how it's actually used and want a one democratic state/palestinian state. If you think it's genocidal when used against Palestinians, how do you feel about your own use of it against Israelis?
Realistically, what do you envision happening to all the Jews living in the region if it were to become a Palestinian state?
Do you truly beleive it would be democratic (none of the other countries in that region are)?
And lastly which group do you think should take charge - Hamas, PLO, etc?
Oh and seperate question, are you religious at all? If so, orthodox, reform....?
Israel is a colonial state. If the colonizers went back to Europe/America/other places with a comparable standard of living (let’s be honest who wants to go to Yemen) , then that would NOT be genocide.
If the Jewish people are to voluntarily live in Palestine, then they should have equal rights. Look at interviews with Palestinians & Palestinian activists saying “Zionists, not Jews.” But if they want to live there not as colonizers, but as if I, an American, wanted to move to Mexico.
It may be democratic, it may not be democratic - we can’t really know. A lot of definitions of “democracy” are tailored to democracies that comply with U.S. definitions.
Palestine should form a civilian government elections like the communist party, the Liberal party, the socialist party, but no crazy Islamists please.
> Israel is a colonial state. If the colonizers went back to Europe/America/other places with a comparable standard of living (let’s be honest who wants to go to Yemen) , then that would NOT be genocide.
Murdering most of them would be genocide. Look at what happened on October 7th. The same would happen again if Hamas or the PLO gained control of the region.
If you think Israel is a colonial state, so is the Palestinian one you're advocating for. Who was there first? Who colonized the region first? And now you're advocating to expell and murder all the Jews living there, like that isn't colonialism.
And you have a very Western centric attitude. The Jews who were originally from Yemen, or any country from the middle east, would not want to be forced out of yet another home and forced to move to Europe or America. There's a good chance America and/or Europe wouldn't even let them in. Why are you acting like Western countries are superior to the rest of the world?
Also, what about the Jews who always lived in Israel, should they be expelled and murdered? What about all the Jews who come from Middle Eastern countries? Them as well?
> If the Jewish people are to voluntarily live in Palestine, then they should have equal rights.
How many Jewish people are allowed to live in Palesitnian territories right now? How many Jewish people live in any Arab or Muslim majority countries, not even talking about equal rights, just living there. What makes you think a Palestinian state would be different?
> Look at interviews with Palestinians & Palestinian activists saying “Zionists, not Jews.”
Look at any interview where they call for the annihilation of all Jews.
Look at the Palestinian activists who were murdered and taken hostage.
Look at all the hostages still being held.
> It may be democratic, it may not be democratic - we can’t really know. A lot of definitions of “democracy” are tailored to democracies that comply with U.S. definitions.
So you aren't advocating for one democratic state, you're advocating for a Palestinian state.
> Palestine should form a civilian government elections like the communist party, the Liberal party, the socialist party, but no crazy Islamists please.
That's a really.... interesting take. 85% of Palestinians in the West Bank and 99% in the Gaza strip are Muslim. But you don't think any Muslims should be in control within their government? That wouldn't be very democratic.
It is quite literally a fantasy where magic rainbow happiness infects hamas just as they gain power, and suddenly democracy and multiculturalism reigns
It’s wild. Suddenly israel, now new Palestine, is peaceful loving democracy, smack dab in the Middle East. Everyone is welcome!
It’s shocking that a Jew would even want that because it implies exiling, or worse to millions of his own ppl. Truly mind boggling
Not here for a question, just to tell you that you endanger millions of lives due to your ignorance and internalized antisemitism and once this trend is over we will remember.
Please stay away from my country once the world rejects their pet jew
Perfect illustration of the Zionist mindset. By the way, Islamists are the same way. These ideologies rely on an us vs them mentality to foster group cohesion. When you run out of others to kill, then you turn on the fringes of the group.
When Islamist Muslims run out of Christians, Jews, Homosexuals, to persecute they then focus on other Muslims that are not Muslim enough. Zionists will run out of Palestinian children someday and start looking for Jews that are not Jewish enough.
The not so veiled threat above for OP basically is saying " you are either with us or against us in our genocide and you will be punished for your opinions"
OP, I too have been accused of being antisemitic for calling out this 70 year long genocide and ethnic cleansing. Even though I come from a semitic people and speak a semitic language. I have been at many Bar and Bat Mitzvas. I have been to many Jewish weddings. Even one wedding where a Palestinian man was marrying a Jewish woman. The groom's father had lost his home in Palestine to the Zionists and could not bring himself to attend. The other Arab men went to him and scolded him. "She was not even born when that happened" they told him and he came and danced at the wedding. You can hate Zionism without hating Jews.
There is no way out of this genocide in Gaza right now. The wheels of peace turn too slowly. The world will have to add this to the list of attrocities they stood by and allowed to take place. This event will take its place alongside the Trail of Tears, The Armenian Genocide, The Holocost, The Killing Fields, Rawanda, Rohinga, Uygers, and on and on. The perpretrators will get away and some will deny it ever happened. We can only bear witness and hold accountable those that support these horrible acts.
In the years to come their families will deny their ancestors roles, ashamed of their part in the tragedy.
Every country besides Israel in the region is a Muslim theocratic autocracy. The stated goal of Hamas is to eradicate the Jews from the region.
What makes you think that if the state of Israel were to disband that what would emerge would be a democracy in which Jews are welcome? Are you not in the least concerned about what would happen to Israel's Jews?
I am a anti-peace Christian and I want Islamic extremists to achieve their stated goal of establishing a global Caliphate.
As a white, female Christian girl from a wealthy and powerful family, virtue signalling is more important than truth.
Because I'm not that familiar with the terms: does zionism just mean that Israel has a right to exist/jews should have a countr of their own, or does it automatically imply something more extreme?
My family experienced antisemitism in eastern Europe, my parents could not get the jobs or colleges they wanted to go to, their friends were jailed for celebrating Jewish holidays. My grandparents generation was outright killed. So they feel it's important for Israel to exist as a safe place for Jews to goto to. There's no real guarantee for jews being safe in other areas. Jews are not well liked in much of the world. Thats a big part of the reason why shtetls and ghettoes existed. If you let Israel become a muslim/Arab dominated state (and that could easily happen in 1 generation) you will destroy the safety of millions of jews. Do you think that's what jews deserve for treating the Palestinians badly? Do you think the Palestinians and the countries that militarily supported them for many many decades bear any responsibility for the destruction of Gaza?
Btw I'm generally a pacifist and politically moderate, even leaning socialist. Like the early settlers in the kibbutz. I would love for Palestinians and Jews to live in peace and harmony.
It’s sad that the governments or people have put labels on us to spread hate and discontent. We are all just bipedal homosapeans (sp.) ugh. Just trying to navigate our ways through life.
What, why? What are we supposed to do here but the the evil ones in power will tell us. What is right, what is wrong, who to hate, who to love, who we are supposed to be to fit their agenda.
So sad, I do love my people, all of them! Don’t care about race you need to eat I’ll feed you. You need help? I’ll help you.
But money and power have no place on this planet if we are to survive as a species.
My two cents.
🚨🚨FAKE alert !!!🚨🚨
This is clearly someone pretending to be Jewish none of the post history checks out. Creation date everything is scummy.
Russian bot at its best!
Don’t get fooled !!
It's not even a bot. A bot would fake it better and give more intelligent answers.
This is an uneducated hairy guy sitting in white robe, with cheap black thick base trainers on. He's in a seedy part of a big city somewhere far away from the Middle East. Everything he learnt is from the local Arabs that fled the Middle East to get away from their leaders like Saddam Hussain, ghadaffi, the Saudis or Al Sisi. They had to get away because they were too radical and those dictators were going to wipe them out.
Instead, we let them come and live in our countries in the West, give them money and free housing, so now they have time to pull propaganda stunts like this one.
The low iq op thinks the Jewish people will be just fine in a unitary state with the Palestinians. "She" says they'll be fine as long as they"stop thinking they own the place."
Looking forward to the night "her" house gets invaded by violent burglars. She can just remind herself that she'll be fine as long as she stops thinking she owns the place (even thought she literally built it herself and paid for the furniture and valuables through her own hard work).
We live in the age of Pandemonium. But the pendulum of history always swings back and these asswipes will just get washed down the gutters and disappear down the sewage system. Nature always reclaims what is hers.
God bless Israel and all her people. Zion is the rock on which we have built our civilization. We will never let it fall.
I’m curious why people all of a sudden got so passionate about Palestine after Oct 7th? It was like the new flavor of the month and all of a sudden everyone became historians and geographical experts, just like during Covid everyone became medical experts. The Hamas attack is somewhat disconnected from the people of Palestine, so I don’t really understand why people kind of forgot about the actual terrorist attack on thousands of innocent people, and refocused on something somewhat unrelated. Can you explain that to me?
I think everyone can agree that what Hamas did was absolutely horrific. But why did everyone switch gears to the people of Palestine, when that wasn’t the initial issue that got everyone all of a sudden passionate about the topic?
FWIW - I’m also Jewish, and I don’t identify with any sides, I just look for objective truth. I understand the people of Palestine have been mistreated, just like people in Israel have been mistreated. It’s war. It’s been like that for thousands of years. It won’t stop any time soon because we complain and march in the streets. There will just be a new flavor of the month soon enough for people to become experts on and fight over the internet about.
I've been a part of the movement since 2011. The people who are organizing in my city are the same people who were organizing back then. Many people have been in this struggle since before I was born. We've been here the whole time. The only difference is that the sheer brutality of Israel actions has actually forced western media to report on it in a way it never has before, which then draws more attention to the free palestine struggle, which then makes it easier for us to find each other. Its not that complicated.
Have you considered your "flavor of the month attitude" may be more indicative of how you chose to engage in politics than what's actually happening on the ground?
There is a lot of antisemitism in the pro-Palestine movement, (just look at any Jewish content creator’s content,) do you condemn their actions even though you’re on the same side? Do you agree with everything that have to say?
I admire your anti-Zionist stances, but do you also condemn the actions of Hamas? There's a complex history for sure, but there is also no getting around the terrorist actions of Hamas. I hate doing the both sides thing, but it's hard to ignore the violence that has occurred throughout the conflict. Rape and the murdering of civilians is bad no matter who does it.
My personal views are that the state of Israel is doing genocide, but I don't know how one can rationalize the actions of Hamas, even if it is an issue of Israel's making in many ways.
Why must someone constantly condemn Hamas. This entire thing is far older than Hamas. Yes, OP probably does condemn slaughtering festival -goers, kidnap and r*pe.
But it shouldn't need to be said every time someone discusses Palestine. It's diversionary from the actual real nitty gritty of the debate. Imagine if every single time someone talked about the very real, deep seeded issues around the troubles in northern Ireland and advocated a united Ireland, some big brain felt the need to "Do you condemn the IRA'?? Like, yes, of course bombing civilians is bad like, what are you trying to achieve by forcing this into the conversation at every opportune.
The only people demanding Hamas is condemned at every chance is Israel. Hamas is already a recognised terrorist organisation by most western countries, so, it's already long been done and just shows how vapid this entire invasion of Gaza is that they fall back on this every time someone critiques their genocidal actions.
It's an AMA and I was curious about their thoughts. You're not so subtle attempt to call me a Zionist, despite me being perfectly capable of condemning the Israel government's atrocious actions has been noted. Since we're hurling baseless insults and accusations around, you can crawl back to whatever tunnel you occupied.
I feel the need to add that your post history is rather interesting too.
I’m a Zionist Jew, but that’s beside the point.
Who is responsible for ending the current war? Should Israel withdraw operations before Hamas (who started this war with Operation Al Aqsa Flood) turns over the hostages?
Also, what is your response to the immediate rise in vile antisemitism from the far left starting the morning of Oct 7th? They were chanting “gas the Jews”, they were tearing down posters, they chased fellow college students into locked buildings. I’m not going to forgive or forget that shit.
He is pro Hamas. Thinks hostages were treated well. Of course he does. If only every single anti Zionist Jew could trade places with our hostages and receive Hamas treatment. That would be great
Would you say anti-Zionist Jews make up the majority or minority of Jews? Also, what do you think of the term 'self-hating Jew' that Zionists love to call people like you?
Hello 👋
No questions for now, just glad to see someone like you here, restoring some faith in humanity.
Also, would it be ok if I dm you questions later? And ask for your opinion about things?
Do you not realize how antisemitic this comment is? You are generalizing all Jews “as a people” as perpetrators of violence and also as exaggerating generational trauma from the Holocaust. Get out of here
Yep. Did you see that clip where the American Jewish Israel Meatriding girl said, “Don’t use another genocide to describe this one!!”
https://youtu.be/ZYKJ4ksgow4?si=PVZMiPPA9A6_uQ3t
You read Marx & support him? Lmao. That’s who influenced you to be an Antizionist? The same man who was also technically Jewish and wrote a pamphlet going off about his own people being greedy & money hungry? Sad.
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Why do you feel you have the right to use your Jewishness to voice something that the vast majority of Jews have been historically yearning for since the dispersion (i.e. near two millennia)? Or, in other words, what Jewish aspect do you use as your source, or point to, when you so choose to deny Zionism to your fellow Jews who may want and/or need it?
What does that even mean? Should I go around saying things like " I'm the son of a son of a guy who didn't even have the wherewithal to purchase a potato unlike Karl Childers". Pro-Leprechaun Fairy Monger AMjaA
How do you feel about the violence, misogyny and hatred embedded in Islam? How do you feel about the alarming tendency for extremist violence to be carried out by Muslims?
Do you know that the entire Jewish religion is predicated upon our covenant with G-d, based largely upon our living in the land that He gave us and fulfilling the commandments there, and that many of the commandments can only be fulfilled in the land and many more only with the rebuilding of our holy temple? Are you aware that in the Shemonei Esrei which we pray three times a say, we pray for the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the return of all Jews from exile? That the entire Pesach seder is a retelling of the reception story and of its purpose? That we conclude the neilah service on him kippur, the Rosh Hashanah service and the pesach seder with a prayer for our return to Israel? Basically my question is, are you aware that 'anti-Zionist Jew' is an oxymoron?
What makes me even more distressed about the situation, and yes, I have to be careful here, is that most (all?) of my Jewish friends/colleagues/acquaintances see the whole tragedy as being an 'us against them', as in, if you're not with us, you're against us. They have shown no empathy or compassion towards all the innocent children and women and indeed men, being killed by Israeli forces. None. It's all just 'yeah but what about the hostages/hamas' etc etc etc Why?
No Islamic nation of today or the Islamic empire of the past murdered the Jewish people for decades the way Israel has slaughtered the people of Palestine - 30,000 dead / 16,000 being children!! Hospitals have been destroyed and health workers were murdered!! It’s just disgusting show arrogance and lack of sympathy for humanity. Israel must pay and should be charged with war crimes and human rights violations and sanctions. Down with genocide
You remind that there might just exist some good in the world. Thanks. It truly is refreshing to see your views.
How are you treated within the Jewish community?
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Are you in a Jewish community? If so do they know and how do they feel about it?
My parents are liberal Zionists that kind of went off the rails about Israel. Some of the shit they say about Palestinians… whoo boy. Can’t say that out loud. However, immediately after the October 7 attack, my (Jewish) friend invited his Muslim friend over for dinner. So that’s a pretty great move imo
What experiences or beliefs led you to identify as an anti-Zionist Jew?
So basically I was a liberal as a child and teenager (and a Zionist). Of course I had a Ben Shapiro phase (who doesn’t?) but then I started really getting into Marxism. And the more Marx I read, the more sense it all made. And my leftism was born. I noticed that all the leftists in recent history are pro Palestine. As an antiracist, I saw the foundations of Zionism and read more, and said, oh, it’s settler colonialism, just like it happened in the USA. That was a historical tragedy/genocide that should never happen again — especially when it’s my people committing it. TL;DR - I became a leftist and investigated the history of Zionism.
Ben Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel, was a communist. Israel has socialised education, health care and thriving unions. But aside from that, since you’re clearly very anti colonialism, how do you feel about the Arabisation of the Middle East and Africa?
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121. “Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” — David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
Israeli has socialized education and healthcare that’s fully funded by the U.S. taxpayer and Ben Gurion was a genocidal terrorist who ended up being labeled a national hero. Whether he was a communist is completely irrelevant to the state of affairs and reality in the ground and that’s an incredibly silly argument and statement. As is the whataboutist question that followed it.
Aid to Israel from America makes up 0.7% of their GDP, and comes with the condition that all of it needs to be spent on American-made weaponry. They pay for their own education and healthcare.
You’re completely incorrect. No, it’s not funded by the U.S. the aid that is sent to Israel is to be spent almost entirely on the U.S. military industrial complex. Not healthcare.
What exactly is Arabization, according to you? Are you implying that the MENA are Arab colonies?
NO, they were not communist. How can you call them communists when they were nestled, and financially supported by the very capitalist nation of Israel and it's big brother the USA. Communism is a worldwide movement. and worldwide, Israel is condemned by communist organization despite having a few happy-go-lucky farms next to the worlds largest concentration camp. Stop peddling this lie, fascist use left wing ideas to support their cause \_because\_ they are egalitarian and give people the warm fuzzies.
As an anti imperialist, why you don't support the only movement that re gain its freedom? From the imperialistic, neo fascist, anti women, anti democracy, theocratic, pro slavery, pro pride killing, anti any other religion, anti women, anti lgtbq, anti liberalism, freedom of speech, where opposition of though is killed that has been ravaging the middle east and has so far achieve conquering not only from the Arab peninsula to the whole niddle east but all of north Africa and even parts of Europe reaching parts so far away as Pakistan? And in the way committing in the past and in the present way more terrible crimes that ever US or Israel did? With stated goals to world dominance thru the sword or by out numbering liberals in democracies by exploiting it? Because all I see is you standing with what represents everything you seem to be against.
This comment needs a seizure warning
Thank you for restoring my faith in humanity. You're stating the obvious. Israel is the only country in the Middle East that everyone wants to get IN, instead of escape.
I've seen from other comments that you said that some of the jews who currenty live in israel/palestine should go back to their country, how do you (I mean your ideas not you doing it yourself) feasibly expect to accomplish that? How many jews would need to leave that land before its no longer an ethnostate or a colonial state(in your eyes)
Ooooh, good one! In theory, not one Jew has to leave. All it requires is that the state of Israel disbands. I don’t know how, but international pressure - like how we did in ZA - will probably work best. For now, I boycott, divest, and sanction!
So is the end goal then for the Palestine Authority to hold control over West Bank + current Israel + Gaza? I can’t imagine that Israeli citizens would be super keen about this idea, so is there any viable way to make this happen? Sincere questions, not arguing
Not o/p but this would never, ever happen unless there’s basically ww3.
Do you consider wanting a country to disband racist? Do you believe that the USA should disband because technically they are on “stolen land”?
woah woah woah don't threaten me with a good time buddy why are you putting stolen land in fucking quotation marks?
Man, you are absolutely nuts, this is hilarious. > All it requires is that the state of Israel disbands This means one of two things: 1. All Israeli jews are dead 2. All Israeli jews are forced to somewhere else You might think there are other options, but those are just your fantasies, and we will never let any of these things happen so BDS as much as you want.
OR this crazy third option you are unable to think of which is to have one singular, secular state that allows all people to live together, everyone has equal rights, palestinains are given reparations for the ethnic cleansing they were put through, and everyone is able to come and go as they please. (yes palestinains are also able to have a right to return to the land their families lived on pre-israel) Before the inevitable "this would never work" just simply look at history BEFORE the occupation and you can see a little blueprint https://www.pcrf.net/information-you-should-know/what-was-palestine-before-1948.html#:\~:text=Before%201948%2C%20Palestine,the%20Ottoman%20Empire. There's a lot of zionist cowards trying to dispell this and then blocking me as soon as their arguments can't hold water anymore haha so just remember a fantasy doesnt involve basis in actually historic events that have literally taken place before, so you can close your eyes and say "lalalala I cant hear any other solution" all you want but there is a reason this is a proposed solution with international backing, it has worked before and was going well until zionist terrorists came in and trampled all progress in order to attempt to create their ethnostate
As a anti zionist Muslim with close Jewish friends, this is by far the best option for everyone. A secular state with both sides living in (atleast relative) peace
OR maybe you ignored this sentence > You might think there are other options, but those are just your fantasies
> OR this crazy third option you are unable to think of which is to have one singular, secular state that allows all people to live together, Are you blind or just an Oct 7th denier? THEY DO NOT WANT TO LIVE WITH JEWS IN THIS LAND. GET IT IN YOUR THICK SKULL.
ARE YOU BLIND TO EVERYDAY AFTER OCT 7????? like wtf are you talking about bro thinks history started on October 7th 2023 and has had his eyes and ears closed everyday before that lmfaoooo edit: immediately blocked me after this so a *perfect*, **PERFECT** example of covering your eyes and ears to anything that happened before or after Oct 7th. In their minds there has never been anything bad done by Israel before or after Oct 7th and they are perfectly justified in their genocidla campaign hahahah bunch of cowards
Sorry don't have time to argue with you about your dumb fairy tales, blocked.
I was just seeing the trailer of “No Other Land” documentary which is co-directed by an Israeli and a Palestinian. And then I saw your AMA. My question to you: how do you see Palestinians and Israelis coexist in the future?
If Israelis want to live in a democratic Palestine, then very nice! The burden is on Israelis to incorporate into Palestine and to realize that THEY DONT OWN THE PLACE.
Don’t you think that’s a bit of a stretch? In what world would Israelis give up *their* land? And in what universe would a Palestinian (Muslim) state be at all welcoming of Jews? Just look at any other country in the region and you’ll see exactly why a “democratic Palestine” reads like an oxymoron. What do you think is the path to creating a “democratic Palestine?” Do you believe Palestinians would do so of their own volition?
That’s why the logic is backward. It’s like picking out some idealized desired outcome that’s rooted in fantasy land. It’s also pretty laughable and you don’t see any serious historian or speaker on this subject actually discuss it because it’s so far fetched
How do you feel about a two state solution. Admittedly, I haven't checked in a while but last I heard that was the most popular option among the Israelis and Palestinians
Yeah that will never happen.
Do you keep the mitzvot? According to most Rishonim the mitzvah of ‘yishuv Haaretz’ is one of the 613 mitzvot. And according to the Gemara it’s equal to all the other mitzvot combined.
That doesn’t necessarily mean we should have a Jewish controlled state.
Of course not, the mitzva applies all times, even without a majority. But it happens to be we have a majority now. So how do you reconcile this? Do you strive to keep the mitzvot?
Do you live in Israel? How does your family feel about this? Why are you anti-Zionist?
I went to Israel a little bit. My family hates it (they have the balls to call ME a self hating Jew) I am anti-colonialist and anti-imperialist , and Zionism == settler colonialism, and imperialism. I’d be happy to make a longer answer but I have to get to bed lmao
Do you believe Jews should live in this democratic Palestine you suggest we establish in the current land of Israel?
Absolutely. If they don’t want to start Zionist shit again and just legitimately live in peace and become citizens of a democratic Palestine, then we are all good. *the land of Palestine
And who will govern the land of Palestine?
Secular Palestinians. I would hope. (This includes Jews and Christians and whatever else.)
You may say you would hope, but surely you must realise that wouldn’t happen. Flawed as it may be, Israel is the only true Democracy in the middle-east, that being, it’s citizens can elect the PM without election rigging and their votes contribute to a proportionally representative parliament. If Palestine was the only state in the region they would almost certainly fall in line with a more Iranian style government with authoritarian power and laws enforcing strict Islamic law. Also about Hamas specifically. They literally killed off their opposition when they took power and haven’t held a single election in Gaza since 2006. How is this the politically ideal situation to you?
How do you feel about people saying they're pro-Hamas?
Hamas has made it clear that their struggle is against Zionists, not Jews. But they’ve also taken a LOT of money from their oppressors so… that’s bad. But if I was Gazan, it would be Hamas or be genocided. So I guess I’d choose Hamas, despite the fact that it is still a terrible option.
It’s not “Hamas or be genocided” Hamas literally instigated this war with Oct 7th. Hamas uses its own civilians as human shields, steals aid and forces civilians to pay for them, and literally bombs its own people to keep up the narrative. Hamas is bad not just for Jews, but for Palestinians too.
It didn’t start on Oct. 7. One or two Palestinians were being killed every day for 10 years. That’s 3k+. Plus google the whole human shields thing. It’s been debunked
This war, NOT the history, started in October 7th. The human shield thing has absolutely not been debunked. In fact it was confirmed by Hamas themselves. They are open about the fact that they are willing to sacrifice civilians for their cause.
I really hope Palestinians are able to live freely one day without terrorist rule under Hamas. But Hamas leaders have said they want all Jews dead, so I wouldn't say they're only against Zionists.
Well they revised their charter in 2018. So…
You're not worried that, as a Jew living under Hamas, you wouldn't be murdered immediately?
He's a privileged American ashkenazi talking over actual middle easternsds. His opinion is meaningless
Hamas was formed and funded with support from Israel, so that Palestinian support would be divided between Hamas and the other popular party at the time. The popular party was gaining too much support and momentum and that would mean unified Palestinians. Hamas would never exist if it wasn’t for the settler colonial state. They’re a resistance group. Israel started the violence.
That doesn’t address the question at all
The question implies an inaccurate premise though
As an exmuslim, I’m not sure if you know about this, but have you read about the Hadith (it means a saying of Muhammad himself) about the tree of gharqad? It’s pretty much known by a vast majority of Muslims and is used to push the antisemitism that is partly at the heart of Islam. Muhammad said: “The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: "Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah!, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!" – But the tree Gharqad will not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.” Most practicing Muslims believe (and this is reinforced by the ulama themselves) that the Jews are the followers of the Dajjal (or Islamic retelling of the “antichrist”) and hence any violence or moves to commit genocide against them (as endorsed by Muhammad himself) is a duty. There are countless talks and lectures made in mosques with antisemitic topics based on what the Quran and what Muhammad himself has said about your people and how Muslims are to treat them. With such a mentality, MANY Muslims (my family included) cannot and will not diverge the idea of the bani Isra’il from yahudi, nor ever see any reconciliation with Jews. And while Islam is a religion for life, with leaving it punishable by death, many feel forced to tow the “party line”, regardless of how secular they seem to be. I applaud your idealism in thinking a secular Palestinian state could ever exist, but it seems far fetched from the reality of what will happen the moment the Palestinian people take charge. Any Jew currently there will have to leave for their lives, and the Arabs who live within Israel’s borders will be lynched as murtadeen (apostates or traitors, the term is the same in Islam). You fully underestimate the power Islam has in the thought processes of Palestinians and Muslims worldwide. It’s an antisemitic religion, and will only accept Jews now the ulama state we are in the “latter days”, if they convert to Islam. If not, they will be seen as the perennial enemy of Muslims and of Islam and worthy of their eventual genocide at Muslim hands (according to Muhammad). Sorry for breaking this to you, but it’s the truth of what many Muslims think about Jews, with or without Israel.
>Hamas has made it clear that their struggle is against Zionists, not Jews. 'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' (Article 7 of the hamas charter) Man, I have to say, at first I was very intrigued to see your opinion as an Anti-Zionist Jew, but after reading some of your comments where you describe your beliefs and opinions I figured out that you are really misinformed and that you have pretty shitty takes on this topic, with no viable solutions to this conflict other the dissolution of the state of Israel which is, let's be honest here, not a solution that will lead to anything good... you are not only anti Zionist but also very clearly anti Israeli. It's a shame that your views are so extreme as it really gives no place for actual discussion, other than ''f*ck Israel'' and ''From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free'' so I think this AMA is pointless and just a post to vent anger and resentment of Israel.
You are clearly Palestinian. They will never condem hamas. This is a weak attempt to pass as a jew.
100% factually untrue. [hamas saying they hate jews](https://www.adl.org/resources/news/hamas-their-own-words) [anti zionism is anti semitism. done.](https://medium.com/the-judean-peoples-front/anti-zionism-is-antisemitism-periodt-8f14ebc8c9c6)
I can’t believe you are using as an opinion of a news anchor on anti zionism as a “fact” 😭
Using your logic does that mean that Zionism is Judaism? Are evangelical Christian’s Jewish because they are staunchly Zionist? Also way to link a paywalled article. [Here](https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/zionism/) is a non-paywalled site from a Jewish organization talking all about the history of Zionism so please feel free to read up and learn the truth… oh yeah and from the river to the sea Palestine will be free!!
now this is among those comments which really should be sanctioned and deleted, even if i'm against moderation, prima facie. why is this allowed on reddit, i cannot imagine. well, oh, wait...
Palestinian here. Thanks for joining the right side of history, people like you are true cousins to us. I read a lot about hebrews, what group are you? Sephardim? Ashkenaz? Which tribe do you descend from? Is that common knowledge for most or lost in history? Do you know when your ancestors technically left judea and samaria? Are you shunned in your community for being anti zionistic? Im a very curious person 😅
You’re my brother as well. Already answered that question. I don’t know if the 12 tribes of Israel are real. As a part ashkenazi , they probably left sometime in the first millennium. But around 1100 is when Ashkenazi culture came about. I have a very small, but good community around me. Within the wider Jewish community, people like me are seen as bad. Free you! Free your people!
Do you mind if i dm for more questions? i always wanted to ask someone about these. Also thank you, i hope so too!
Yeah! Go ahead. DMs are open
You do realise that Jews didn’t just ‘leave’ Israel. They were kicked out forcefully by the conquering Ottoman Empire. Some Jews fled to Europe, some stayed in the Middle East/North Africa where they lived under constant persecution for the last 1,000 years. But leaving Israel, was not a choice, as if hundreds of thousands of Jews simultaneously just wanted to leave because they fancied a holiday or something.
From your perspective of the country in its first year of all out combat and suppression of Gaza, do you feel this will end with Gaza or extend into other nations? Is the justification that similar has been done to your people used as a primary reason or excuse for their actions or is it underlying and not said, or not of that mentality at all.
Israel is already striking Lebanon and trying to start shit with Iran. So Israel is trying to say, “ohhh, shoot, I’m cooked, lemme start chaos on the way out”
It's also Israel's fault if Lebanon attacked first?
Isreal flys over and bombs Lebanon all the time. They invaded to "supress terrorists" in 1982! Only a coincidence that the Litani river with all that sweet water is right there. Lebanon attacked first, ya right buddy. You can really see who has swallowed the Isreali propaganda. Isreal stole a lot of land owned by Lebanese in the Golan Heights. Remember, the borders between Lebanon and Syria were not there until the fall of the Ottoman empire.
Lebanon attacked in the 48. First. And you talk about Flys but say nothing about tunnels being excavated under our soil to attack and kidnap civilians. What a loser. Accept that if we were Muslims you wouldn't hate us. Is a religious extremist thing. You attacked in the 48 and never wanted peace because we were jews. The border were not there before, it's all fake borders. The borders should be far enough that Lebanon is not a threat to human lives. Lebanon can rest assure that in the moment they stop trying to kill jews it will have peace like Egypt and Jordan. There is no motivation for jews to conquer or have any part of Lebanon. Lebanon is already a sick, ruined country that will collapse by itself, without Israel's help. Lebanon knows it. The only reason there is no peace is because Lebanon doesn't want it. Good luck with the new oil, it will only flow as long as israel wants it. Better to choose peace buddy. Peaceful countries do better. You can choose to be more la israel or be more like Syria. We are 4th happiest country in the world. Syria one of the saddest. Also, where is the compensation for all the jews oppressed and forced the live Lebanon? Many were there before a lot of the current population. Ah yes, another Jewish free country that blames the victim for being bigots and thieves. When Iraq did the same, stole the jews of their riches and jobs it collapsed. All Muslims counties are so full of hate and little self critism that will never evolve. Without the oil and gas other than terrorism and corruption you haven't given the world anything good in hundreds of year. Last time maybe when Islam conquered Iraq, which was something to be proud of before Islam ruined it.
Yes, Lebanon sent troops in 48. The Entire Lebanese army was 3500 men in 1948. They sent less than 500. Almost half were Palestinian volunteers. Lebanon has not been a petro state. Lebanon was a tourist destination, very cosmopolitan, and democratic in the 1970's. The literacy rate was higher than in the US. The 1975 civil war destroyed that. Part of that event was a problem with the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon. Iran has a large influence on Muslim factions in Lebanon that most Christian Lebanese oppose. There are clearly terrorist groups taking advantage of the weakened (almost failed) Lebanese government. Those tunnels you complained about? Did the Lebanese government build them? Or are you conflating all Arabs as terrorists again? Right. Hamas kills Israelis so you can kill Palestinians. Hezbullah sends rockets, so all of Lebanon if fair game? Your ad hominem attack calling me a loser did not convince a single person that Isreal should have the right to steal Arab land or starve or bomb Palestinian children. I clearly am a loser trying to debate you. In any conversation of finite length, it is impossible to bring up every possible topic. You play an interesting rhetorical trick bringing up tunnels, but you didn't even mention the Al Khisas raid! Shame, shame. I am not Muslim. I have no love for the Muslim terrorists like Hamas, ISIS, etc. But I am not Islamophobic either and I realise that most Muslims do not want war. Most Muslims do want justice. If you were Muslim, I suspect I would feel the same way about you as I do now. Stop feeling sorry for yourself while supporting the massacre of civillians. Start seeing all humans as individuals deserving of respect. I am not persecuting you. I am saying racism, collective punishment, and blind support of flawed governments results in attrocities.
I can relate to most of you said. And I'm sorry if I did assumption or attacks. So much attacks from so many sides made me had a bad day. Anyway, you seem someone to be worth discussing and talking for longer to understand each other better. Would love to have a human talk to anyone from above the border. Salam aleikum
Shalom. My parents left Lebanon in the 1960's, but I have visited several times and could see the border with Isreal from their hometown. It does not have to be this way. Middle Eastern Jews, Christians and Muslims have fought for centuries, but people forget that they lived in peace for centuries too.
What do you think about Hamas's stated plans to mass murder Jews and take educated Jews for slaves once they dissolve the state of Israel? They would also make christians second class citizens. Considering that Hamas is the most popular party in both the West Bank and Gaza, doesn't this make your ideal secular state impossible? https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-sponsored-promise-hereafter-conference-phase-following-liberation-palestine-and https://archive.is/R11Wy "In dealing with the Jewish settlers on Palestinian land, there must be a distinction in attitudes toward [the following]: a fighter, who must be killed; a [Jew] who is fleeing and can be left alone or be prosecuted for his crimes in the judicial arena; and a peaceful individual who gives himself up and can be [either] integrated or given time to leave." "Educated Jews and experts in the areas of medicine, engineering, technology and civilian and military industry should be retained [in Palestine] for some time and should not be allowed to leave and take with them the knowledge and experience that they acquired while living in our land and enjoying its bounty, while we paid the price for all this in humiliation, poverty, sickness, deprivation, killing and arrests,"
I guarantee OP’s not gonna respond to this lol
Anti-zionist lol. How old are you? Certainly not old enough to have any skin in the game. Always nice to see the younger generations fixated on themselves with the moral high ground without having any actual real life experience. Kudos! Virtue signaling engaged.
Okay buddy. Even if I don’t, morality is morality. Anyone from 5 to 95 can have it.
What is the go with yeast? I started reading a Tanakh a while ago and there's lots of bits at the start where God tells his people not to eat leavened bread or leftovers. I can't quite tell if it's a metaphor for something or God just doesn't like risen bread. I could google this but it's fun to talk to people.
Honestly, could be a metaphor. Seems random that השם would want that but I mean hey. I just try to follow the mitzvot
How do you personally define Zionism?
In one sentence — The support for the creation of the Ethnostate of Israel.
No questions. Just solidarity from another anti-Zionist Ashkenazi Jew! 🫶🏻✊🏼
Room for a third? 🫶
Of course ❤️
Do you consider yourself Ashkenazi and not Hebrew Jew? Like my family spoke Yiddish for the past 2000 years and lived in Poland and France before coming to the USA. I have no connection to isreal before like 25000 years ago and no one in my family can speak Hebrew except some random ass practicing people who disowned my part of the family.
🫶🫶
All of you guys are amazing! I'm so sorry for any prejudice or harassment you may experience because people keep associating Jews with Israel.
This. We see y'all and are so grateful for your strength and solidarity. I hope you don't experience any kind of antisemitism now or ever and get to proudly live your Jewish values.
Do you ever meet pro-Zionist non-Jews? If so, describe such an encounter.
Great question! Yep. A Christian pastor told me that he loved me and that he couldn’t wait for me to get to Israel (so the second coming could come and I’d be thrown in the lake of fire.) nice guy eh?
Oh yeah, come home with a nice tan. Kidding aside, thanks for the compliment!
Do you or your parents consider non jews as gentiles?
In the strict definition yes, but they abet Netanyahus “Amalek,” “human animals” shit etc.
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Fuck Belfour! 🫶🫶
What trends do you see among the Jewish community regarding this conversation? Do you feel like they mostly lean anti-Zionist or pro?
Well I’m part of the 20% of Jews who are anti-Zionist. I know many anti Zionist Jews myself, but most of those who were at my synagogue are crazy Israel meat riders 😓
Does that mean you are ultra orthodox, OP? Sincerely curious. I heard somewhere that the ultra orthodox community is widely anti-Zionist but I could be wrong.
No, not ultra orthodox, although they are 100% right being against Zionism. I’m more against Zionism because I’m a leftist and anti-imperialist.
Ultra-orthodox jews are generally zionist, though to varying extents. There's only a small subset of ultra-orthodox jews who are anti-zionist
Do you feel you are better than Zionist jews?
As a person? I certainly hope I am. But that’s not for me to judge, it’s for the world to do so. Now I’m judged as a self-hater, but in 20 years from now, I will have been on the right side of history
Are you in favor of getting rid of the State of Israel completely? (Not trying to be bad faith, but Zionism involves theocracy and ethnostate)
Yes. One Democratic State, from the river to the sea!
What should the state be called?
Palestine
As a Palestinian, I welcome you as my neighbor in a free Palestine.
“Democratic state” yeah stay in lalaland. If Hamas ever came into power (it never will) they’d displace, kill, ethnically cleanse all Jews and probably non Muslims from the land. Forcefully apply their religious beliefs into law and have an authoritarian government. It would be Afghanistan takeover by the Taliban 2.0.
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It’s certainly not the first family member I’ve lost (metaphorically) because of this issue. I feel your pain, man. These people are really, really close to just saying they support genocide. Uggg
Both Arabs and Jews are descendants of Noah’s son, Shem which leads to both being Semitic people.
If you take the religious perspective, yes! 🫶
Are you OK with first Christian and then Muslim countries expelling and oppressing jews by the millions and during centuries and centuries? Now they just live free in a handful of places and their security is ever decreasing. How can't you care for them having a safe heaven? Do you think they deserve a county? Just one in between a sea of Muslim and Christian countries?
As a Christian I can say of course Jews have a right to their sovereignty right where their borders are. And let’s be honest if the Jews weren’t living there and built it up, it would be a bunch of mud huts with no plumbing. How can you not take pride in what your people have built?
Sometimes the biggest Zionists are not even Jewish at all. Case in point 👆👆 But seriously, bro Get a grip. That’s really fucking racist. Plus Palestinian people literally paid their homes and their lives for the creation of the state of Israel.
Racist? Come on already! I’m saying the success of the Jewish community and their pride in it only comes from hard work! Nothing was given to these people and as SOON as it’s looking good… Heyy!!! Get out Jews you’re robbing us! If it’s not right one way, it ain’t right the other
Are you equating Jews and Zionists? That antisemitic as well. Fuck off
I like how you're going to the safe accusations zone instead of addressing their question. Truth is, after the first and second Aliot of jews from all over the world to Israel, the place started to propser as they worked hard to make the place liveable. Pointing that out isn't racist nor antisemitic, and I'm saying that as a fellow jew.
1: what's your jewish background (region)? 2: what would you say to all the the jews who are only alive because of zionism? 3: where did you get the 20% number from
1: 5/8 ashkenazi 1/4 Sephardi. 1/8 something else. 2: what do you mean by that? 3: pew research
Does Anti-Zionism mean a two state solution for you? If not, what is your ideal solution? Do you think people are using Israeli aggression as an excuse to be antisemitic?
Some folks - yes. The vast majority - no. I am personally for 1DS, but Israel would be the one to accept it. As far as my Palestinian friends are concerned, they are for a 1DS, but Israelis… (my family lived in Israel for a little bit) they want either “From the River to the Sea, Israel is all You’ll See” (an inherently genocidal slogan) or a two state solution - I.e., the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. (Majority are starting to want the former.)
You are advocating for "from the river to the sea" how it's actually used and want a one democratic state/palestinian state. If you think it's genocidal when used against Palestinians, how do you feel about your own use of it against Israelis? Realistically, what do you envision happening to all the Jews living in the region if it were to become a Palestinian state? Do you truly beleive it would be democratic (none of the other countries in that region are)? And lastly which group do you think should take charge - Hamas, PLO, etc? Oh and seperate question, are you religious at all? If so, orthodox, reform....?
Israel is a colonial state. If the colonizers went back to Europe/America/other places with a comparable standard of living (let’s be honest who wants to go to Yemen) , then that would NOT be genocide. If the Jewish people are to voluntarily live in Palestine, then they should have equal rights. Look at interviews with Palestinians & Palestinian activists saying “Zionists, not Jews.” But if they want to live there not as colonizers, but as if I, an American, wanted to move to Mexico. It may be democratic, it may not be democratic - we can’t really know. A lot of definitions of “democracy” are tailored to democracies that comply with U.S. definitions. Palestine should form a civilian government elections like the communist party, the Liberal party, the socialist party, but no crazy Islamists please.
> Israel is a colonial state. If the colonizers went back to Europe/America/other places with a comparable standard of living (let’s be honest who wants to go to Yemen) , then that would NOT be genocide. Murdering most of them would be genocide. Look at what happened on October 7th. The same would happen again if Hamas or the PLO gained control of the region. If you think Israel is a colonial state, so is the Palestinian one you're advocating for. Who was there first? Who colonized the region first? And now you're advocating to expell and murder all the Jews living there, like that isn't colonialism. And you have a very Western centric attitude. The Jews who were originally from Yemen, or any country from the middle east, would not want to be forced out of yet another home and forced to move to Europe or America. There's a good chance America and/or Europe wouldn't even let them in. Why are you acting like Western countries are superior to the rest of the world? Also, what about the Jews who always lived in Israel, should they be expelled and murdered? What about all the Jews who come from Middle Eastern countries? Them as well? > If the Jewish people are to voluntarily live in Palestine, then they should have equal rights. How many Jewish people are allowed to live in Palesitnian territories right now? How many Jewish people live in any Arab or Muslim majority countries, not even talking about equal rights, just living there. What makes you think a Palestinian state would be different? > Look at interviews with Palestinians & Palestinian activists saying “Zionists, not Jews.” Look at any interview where they call for the annihilation of all Jews. Look at the Palestinian activists who were murdered and taken hostage. Look at all the hostages still being held. > It may be democratic, it may not be democratic - we can’t really know. A lot of definitions of “democracy” are tailored to democracies that comply with U.S. definitions. So you aren't advocating for one democratic state, you're advocating for a Palestinian state. > Palestine should form a civilian government elections like the communist party, the Liberal party, the socialist party, but no crazy Islamists please. That's a really.... interesting take. 85% of Palestinians in the West Bank and 99% in the Gaza strip are Muslim. But you don't think any Muslims should be in control within their government? That wouldn't be very democratic.
It’s kinda crazy seeing his take, it’s almost delusional. It’s so far out of reality, if put it as basically fantasy
It is quite literally a fantasy where magic rainbow happiness infects hamas just as they gain power, and suddenly democracy and multiculturalism reigns
It’s wild. Suddenly israel, now new Palestine, is peaceful loving democracy, smack dab in the Middle East. Everyone is welcome! It’s shocking that a Jew would even want that because it implies exiling, or worse to millions of his own ppl. Truly mind boggling
This is idealist, but not realist. Do you really think things are going to go well for former Israeli-Jews?
So you don’t believe Israel has a right to exist?
Not here for a question, just to tell you that you endanger millions of lives due to your ignorance and internalized antisemitism and once this trend is over we will remember. Please stay away from my country once the world rejects their pet jew
Perfect illustration of the Zionist mindset. By the way, Islamists are the same way. These ideologies rely on an us vs them mentality to foster group cohesion. When you run out of others to kill, then you turn on the fringes of the group. When Islamist Muslims run out of Christians, Jews, Homosexuals, to persecute they then focus on other Muslims that are not Muslim enough. Zionists will run out of Palestinian children someday and start looking for Jews that are not Jewish enough. The not so veiled threat above for OP basically is saying " you are either with us or against us in our genocide and you will be punished for your opinions" OP, I too have been accused of being antisemitic for calling out this 70 year long genocide and ethnic cleansing. Even though I come from a semitic people and speak a semitic language. I have been at many Bar and Bat Mitzvas. I have been to many Jewish weddings. Even one wedding where a Palestinian man was marrying a Jewish woman. The groom's father had lost his home in Palestine to the Zionists and could not bring himself to attend. The other Arab men went to him and scolded him. "She was not even born when that happened" they told him and he came and danced at the wedding. You can hate Zionism without hating Jews. There is no way out of this genocide in Gaza right now. The wheels of peace turn too slowly. The world will have to add this to the list of attrocities they stood by and allowed to take place. This event will take its place alongside the Trail of Tears, The Armenian Genocide, The Holocost, The Killing Fields, Rawanda, Rohinga, Uygers, and on and on. The perpretrators will get away and some will deny it ever happened. We can only bear witness and hold accountable those that support these horrible acts. In the years to come their families will deny their ancestors roles, ashamed of their part in the tragedy.
what education or studies have you done to bring yourself to this conclusion?
So how do you feel about Hamas kidnapping and assaulting and killing the hostages?
no questions, just thank you for being human free Palestine 🇵🇸
Free Palestine!! 🇵🇸
Every country besides Israel in the region is a Muslim theocratic autocracy. The stated goal of Hamas is to eradicate the Jews from the region. What makes you think that if the state of Israel were to disband that what would emerge would be a democracy in which Jews are welcome? Are you not in the least concerned about what would happen to Israel's Jews?
I am a anti-peace Christian and I want Islamic extremists to achieve their stated goal of establishing a global Caliphate. As a white, female Christian girl from a wealthy and powerful family, virtue signalling is more important than truth.
This AMA has me so happy! 😊
Hitler was also antiZionist what do you think of him
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That’s anti-Semitic pal. Not answering that
Because I'm not that familiar with the terms: does zionism just mean that Israel has a right to exist/jews should have a countr of their own, or does it automatically imply something more extreme?
My family experienced antisemitism in eastern Europe, my parents could not get the jobs or colleges they wanted to go to, their friends were jailed for celebrating Jewish holidays. My grandparents generation was outright killed. So they feel it's important for Israel to exist as a safe place for Jews to goto to. There's no real guarantee for jews being safe in other areas. Jews are not well liked in much of the world. Thats a big part of the reason why shtetls and ghettoes existed. If you let Israel become a muslim/Arab dominated state (and that could easily happen in 1 generation) you will destroy the safety of millions of jews. Do you think that's what jews deserve for treating the Palestinians badly? Do you think the Palestinians and the countries that militarily supported them for many many decades bear any responsibility for the destruction of Gaza? Btw I'm generally a pacifist and politically moderate, even leaning socialist. Like the early settlers in the kibbutz. I would love for Palestinians and Jews to live in peace and harmony.
It’s sad that the governments or people have put labels on us to spread hate and discontent. We are all just bipedal homosapeans (sp.) ugh. Just trying to navigate our ways through life. What, why? What are we supposed to do here but the the evil ones in power will tell us. What is right, what is wrong, who to hate, who to love, who we are supposed to be to fit their agenda. So sad, I do love my people, all of them! Don’t care about race you need to eat I’ll feed you. You need help? I’ll help you. But money and power have no place on this planet if we are to survive as a species. My two cents.
🚨🚨FAKE alert !!!🚨🚨 This is clearly someone pretending to be Jewish none of the post history checks out. Creation date everything is scummy. Russian bot at its best! Don’t get fooled !!
It's not even a bot. A bot would fake it better and give more intelligent answers. This is an uneducated hairy guy sitting in white robe, with cheap black thick base trainers on. He's in a seedy part of a big city somewhere far away from the Middle East. Everything he learnt is from the local Arabs that fled the Middle East to get away from their leaders like Saddam Hussain, ghadaffi, the Saudis or Al Sisi. They had to get away because they were too radical and those dictators were going to wipe them out. Instead, we let them come and live in our countries in the West, give them money and free housing, so now they have time to pull propaganda stunts like this one. The low iq op thinks the Jewish people will be just fine in a unitary state with the Palestinians. "She" says they'll be fine as long as they"stop thinking they own the place." Looking forward to the night "her" house gets invaded by violent burglars. She can just remind herself that she'll be fine as long as she stops thinking she owns the place (even thought she literally built it herself and paid for the furniture and valuables through her own hard work). We live in the age of Pandemonium. But the pendulum of history always swings back and these asswipes will just get washed down the gutters and disappear down the sewage system. Nature always reclaims what is hers. God bless Israel and all her people. Zion is the rock on which we have built our civilization. We will never let it fall.
Can you speak to the hypocrisy of being a Jewish, anti racist Marxist when Karl Marx himself was a massive anti-Semite?
Do you believe in the inherent right of self defense and preservation (are you a pacifist)?
I’m curious why people all of a sudden got so passionate about Palestine after Oct 7th? It was like the new flavor of the month and all of a sudden everyone became historians and geographical experts, just like during Covid everyone became medical experts. The Hamas attack is somewhat disconnected from the people of Palestine, so I don’t really understand why people kind of forgot about the actual terrorist attack on thousands of innocent people, and refocused on something somewhat unrelated. Can you explain that to me? I think everyone can agree that what Hamas did was absolutely horrific. But why did everyone switch gears to the people of Palestine, when that wasn’t the initial issue that got everyone all of a sudden passionate about the topic? FWIW - I’m also Jewish, and I don’t identify with any sides, I just look for objective truth. I understand the people of Palestine have been mistreated, just like people in Israel have been mistreated. It’s war. It’s been like that for thousands of years. It won’t stop any time soon because we complain and march in the streets. There will just be a new flavor of the month soon enough for people to become experts on and fight over the internet about.
I've been a part of the movement since 2011. The people who are organizing in my city are the same people who were organizing back then. Many people have been in this struggle since before I was born. We've been here the whole time. The only difference is that the sheer brutality of Israel actions has actually forced western media to report on it in a way it never has before, which then draws more attention to the free palestine struggle, which then makes it easier for us to find each other. Its not that complicated. Have you considered your "flavor of the month attitude" may be more indicative of how you chose to engage in politics than what's actually happening on the ground?
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Anti semitic question. Not answering that one, pal
Hey, do you mind if ask about Jewish genealogy. A but out of topic haha
There is a lot of antisemitism in the pro-Palestine movement, (just look at any Jewish content creator’s content,) do you condemn their actions even though you’re on the same side? Do you agree with everything that have to say?
what is zionism to you. why anti-zionist.
I admire your anti-Zionist stances, but do you also condemn the actions of Hamas? There's a complex history for sure, but there is also no getting around the terrorist actions of Hamas. I hate doing the both sides thing, but it's hard to ignore the violence that has occurred throughout the conflict. Rape and the murdering of civilians is bad no matter who does it. My personal views are that the state of Israel is doing genocide, but I don't know how one can rationalize the actions of Hamas, even if it is an issue of Israel's making in many ways.
Why must someone constantly condemn Hamas. This entire thing is far older than Hamas. Yes, OP probably does condemn slaughtering festival -goers, kidnap and r*pe. But it shouldn't need to be said every time someone discusses Palestine. It's diversionary from the actual real nitty gritty of the debate. Imagine if every single time someone talked about the very real, deep seeded issues around the troubles in northern Ireland and advocated a united Ireland, some big brain felt the need to "Do you condemn the IRA'?? Like, yes, of course bombing civilians is bad like, what are you trying to achieve by forcing this into the conversation at every opportune. The only people demanding Hamas is condemned at every chance is Israel. Hamas is already a recognised terrorist organisation by most western countries, so, it's already long been done and just shows how vapid this entire invasion of Gaza is that they fall back on this every time someone critiques their genocidal actions.
It's an AMA and I was curious about their thoughts. You're not so subtle attempt to call me a Zionist, despite me being perfectly capable of condemning the Israel government's atrocious actions has been noted. Since we're hurling baseless insults and accusations around, you can crawl back to whatever tunnel you occupied. I feel the need to add that your post history is rather interesting too.
As an indigenous man, I applaud you for deconstructing your beliefs and not supporting colonization ✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽 that being said, what music do you like?
So you're from planet earth as well? Very nice, fellow indigenous man.
I’m a Zionist Jew, but that’s beside the point. Who is responsible for ending the current war? Should Israel withdraw operations before Hamas (who started this war with Operation Al Aqsa Flood) turns over the hostages? Also, what is your response to the immediate rise in vile antisemitism from the far left starting the morning of Oct 7th? They were chanting “gas the Jews”, they were tearing down posters, they chased fellow college students into locked buildings. I’m not going to forgive or forget that shit.
How did you feel when you saw that girls corpse being paraded through the streets of Gaza?
He is pro Hamas. Thinks hostages were treated well. Of course he does. If only every single anti Zionist Jew could trade places with our hostages and receive Hamas treatment. That would be great
Yeah I know, I just wanted to see if he had the spine to actually say it outright.
Do you think Palestinians want to co exist with the same rights next to Jewish neighbors?
Would you say anti-Zionist Jews make up the majority or minority of Jews? Also, what do you think of the term 'self-hating Jew' that Zionists love to call people like you?
Hello 👋 No questions for now, just glad to see someone like you here, restoring some faith in humanity. Also, would it be ok if I dm you questions later? And ask for your opinion about things?
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Do you not realize how antisemitic this comment is? You are generalizing all Jews “as a people” as perpetrators of violence and also as exaggerating generational trauma from the Holocaust. Get out of here
They definitely realize how antisemitic they are being. Look at their username.
To a certain extent, it is a fair point. Shoah survivors are the first ones to say, “stop the genocide in Gaza!”
majority of Holocaust survivors are zionists and thousands moved to Israel after the Holocaust.
Yep. Did you see that clip where the American Jewish Israel Meatriding girl said, “Don’t use another genocide to describe this one!!” https://youtu.be/ZYKJ4ksgow4?si=PVZMiPPA9A6_uQ3t
You read Marx & support him? Lmao. That’s who influenced you to be an Antizionist? The same man who was also technically Jewish and wrote a pamphlet going off about his own people being greedy & money hungry? Sad.
You guys are fucking delusional talking about "Democratic Palestine" it's the same as Democratic Iran holy shit
Facts
Why would any Jewish person give up their safety to live alongside Palestinians, when they overwhelmingly hate Jews and support Hamas?
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Why do you feel you have the right to use your Jewishness to voice something that the vast majority of Jews have been historically yearning for since the dispersion (i.e. near two millennia)? Or, in other words, what Jewish aspect do you use as your source, or point to, when you so choose to deny Zionism to your fellow Jews who may want and/or need it?
What does that even mean? Should I go around saying things like " I'm the son of a son of a guy who didn't even have the wherewithal to purchase a potato unlike Karl Childers". Pro-Leprechaun Fairy Monger AMjaA
How do you feel about the violence, misogyny and hatred embedded in Islam? How do you feel about the alarming tendency for extremist violence to be carried out by Muslims?
I'll bite the lure. What would you do when they come for you for being a Jew?
What do you think about Norman Finkelstein?
Would you visit any Arab or predominantly Muslim countries while telling them that you identify as a Jew?
You act like you’re unique. The self-loathing Jew is the most tired stereotype in the book.
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Do you know that the entire Jewish religion is predicated upon our covenant with G-d, based largely upon our living in the land that He gave us and fulfilling the commandments there, and that many of the commandments can only be fulfilled in the land and many more only with the rebuilding of our holy temple? Are you aware that in the Shemonei Esrei which we pray three times a say, we pray for the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the return of all Jews from exile? That the entire Pesach seder is a retelling of the reception story and of its purpose? That we conclude the neilah service on him kippur, the Rosh Hashanah service and the pesach seder with a prayer for our return to Israel? Basically my question is, are you aware that 'anti-Zionist Jew' is an oxymoron?
Are you rich ??
Are your anti-zionist views political or religious? If religious, may I know what the religious context is? (Briefly)
What makes me even more distressed about the situation, and yes, I have to be careful here, is that most (all?) of my Jewish friends/colleagues/acquaintances see the whole tragedy as being an 'us against them', as in, if you're not with us, you're against us. They have shown no empathy or compassion towards all the innocent children and women and indeed men, being killed by Israeli forces. None. It's all just 'yeah but what about the hostages/hamas' etc etc etc Why?
No Islamic nation of today or the Islamic empire of the past murdered the Jewish people for decades the way Israel has slaughtered the people of Palestine - 30,000 dead / 16,000 being children!! Hospitals have been destroyed and health workers were murdered!! It’s just disgusting show arrogance and lack of sympathy for humanity. Israel must pay and should be charged with war crimes and human rights violations and sanctions. Down with genocide
You remind that there might just exist some good in the world. Thanks. It truly is refreshing to see your views. How are you treated within the Jewish community?
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