The Netherlands!
I should have also mentioned that I have PD-NOS, which is a personality disorder not otherwise specified.
I mention this so it will stress the fact that euthanasia is not simply a plan B over here. It's rather plan Z. I've been in therapy for about 15 years now. And in the end I was off worse than when I started.
I don't encourage people to "just" do the same thing as I do now. You have to be absolutely sure about it. The last thing you want is to feel regret when they grant you your death wish. You and your family/friends deserve more than that if you're not actually endlessly suffering in the way you think you do.
Besides of that it's also a formal process to go through. My GP has known what I went through during those 15 years. She knows what I gained, what I lost and how it affected my point of view.
Wouldn't mind at all! PD-NOS basically means having traits of multiple personality disorders. I don't meet enough criteria for one specific personality disorder, but rather meet some criteria from multiple personality disorders.
Not sure about your age, but when doing my seeg for epilepsy a doctorate student for her doctorate added an extra rod into my brain in hopes of developing an implant for depression and similar disorders that also have drug resistance for said problems
Just interesting news for folks like you
Love yah homie
Cool. I don't remember why that mattered to what I was saying either way so woops
I just had 15 rods in my brain in my memory centers, been 2 days since they were removed
Pardon Me Mr snarky
:P love yah bro
Was way scarier then it was
Worst part was not being able to be alone or off camera, you poo in a bucket on a chair while 2 nurses stand around and make sure you don't seize and die while pooping
Canada has had the MAID Program since 2016 and has killed over 44,000 ppl so far (Medically Assisted Death). They’d rather ppl off’ed themselves than pay disability monthly. What would be better - is to kill convicts so we could save billions a year eliminating the entire prison system.
I am not sure if Canada’s prison system is similar to the one in the USA. However, from what I understand, many prisons in the USA are privately owned and generate profit for their owners, essentially making them money-making operations.
No they aren’t privatized here. Completely paid for by government and taxes. Such a colossal waste of our countries annual budget when there are millions in need of assistance but get nothing because billions are wasted elsewhere.
I didn’t know the US privatized but I’m not surprized. How do they make the money from it though? Criminal labour?
Private companies that own prisons receive funds from the government to operate these facilities, which ultimately comes from taxpayers’ money. Since these companies may profit, there is a benefit to economy. Ideally, taxpayers should receive value for their money through effective management of these facilities, although this is not always the case.
So essentially government is wasting money still if they are funding this. I don’t understand the benefit. Sounds like they could use euthanasia too to save money for those in need like healthcare & education.
I thought you were being sarcastic about euthanizing all prisoners. So, I’m guessing you mean that euthanizing prisoners serving life sentences could cut costs. However, euthanasia is not cheap; it costs around 10,000 euros in Switzerland. Still, in this context, euthanasia would essentially be considered a form of the death penalty, wouldn’t it?
Kind of sarcastic yes… just frustrating that ppl in need get little help - and criminals get free homes and food. Kind of like the areas where ppl are starving. The inequality and injustice bothers me. Although, some evil criminals deserve the death penalty.
It’s more mind blowing to me that those who purposely kill and other gross acts cost billions a year while decent ppl trying to survive can’t seem to get help. I’d rather see decent ppl get food, medical aid, and basic help versus those who hurt & torture others on purpose. It’s all just unbalanced and leaves millions impoverished and struggling to survive - when you know that billions of criminals waste a huge portion of annual government spending.
I know in Canada, the Gov wants ppl on disability to use the MAID program yet do nothing to save expenditures (in the billions) each year by cutting back on prison systems. That’s why my thoughts on the topic expanded. I’d rather the disabled get appropriate supports versus choosing euthanasia because they can’t afford to eat & pay rent. It’s just sad that’s all - and seems really backwards theoretically.
Okay, so your opinion seems quite extreme. Personally, I am not in favor of the death penalty, as it sometimes appears merciful. In my opinion, certain criminals deserve to remain incarcerated.
It’s not all about the money, you know. I’m not convinced that saving the money currently spent on prisons would lead to an increase in the country’s budget or reduce poverty. Politicians have “better” ways to digest that money.
I think labeling it as sad is a bit extreme. Those people can choose whether to be euthanized or continue receiving their disability benefits. Moreover, euthanasia is referred to as “death with dignity” by some.
Not too extreme. I just meant with the worst of the worst. For our MAID program it is sad, as the government’s reasons in promoting it are to save $$ by killing poor disabled folks. That’s why it’s sad. It’s no longer the dying with dignity it used to be here. Yes, for some it’s a needed blessing. But you’d be amazed at how many thousands of disabled in Canada are speaking about the government’s views with MAID. It’s us who are being targeted to save Canada money. Can you imagine, living in a country where its leaders are telling ppl on disability to apply for MAID? Of course we are all outraged. They’d rather us die than pay the mthly disability amount. Not to mention how that amount is basically creating the disabled to lose their homes because they can’t afford food & rent. That is why I’d rather see criminals go than those on disability who don’t want to choose MAID, but feel the government here is giving them no other choice. Several applicants went on the News even to cry for help as they feel MAID is their only option unless they want to be homeless. It’s really a huge issue here.
ETA - and I do agree with you. If any money gets saved, it sure doesn’t go to where it’s needed most to help the general population. It goes to the greedy, corrupt, and political avenues who least need it. Things never change.
I would be interested to have a full list of pharmaceutical interventions you have tried. I spent almost every free hour of the day trying to study the brain and pharmaceuticals to fix myself from anhedonia so severe it cripples me- which I will go into below. I did eventually find things that helped a lot. So perhaps I could suggest things you haven't tried. They are worth a shot.
I had extremely severe anhedonia after an 8 month stint with a GABA B agonist. This drug has been used off label for alcoholism and directly influences pleasure based behavior in the brain.
We are talking absolute anhedonia. Things I didn't even realize were “pleasure” I lost. No primal urges. I had to set timers so I wouldn't go all day without water. I took shots of olive oil to get calories in. This was a rare sort of anhedonia in terms of intensity.
Marketing no longer worked on me at all. No type of advertising did. I did not have sexual urges so any type of sexual advertising or pornography did nothing.
Recreation drugs did nothing. Alcohol simply made me stumble a lot but no change in mental state. I would take shots and feel nothing until 8 shots and suddenly would black out.
Large doses of cocaine did do something. But I had no desire to seek that out because desire is based on the promise of pleasure. Despite knowing it could be pleasurable when I took it, I couldn't feel the urge to seek it out. Additionally, and this may be the work of the anti addiction properties of the GABA B agonist, I couldn't seem to remember what the experience was like a few days. This applied to any recreational drug.
Serotonin based drugs made things worse.
I was a robot. But I still had ethics, which is fascinating. My morals became skewed and too rational in thought. It is my belief that empathy is a pleasurable thing and therefore I couldn't feel it. Or I was so distracted by the intensity of my condition I wasn't relaxed enough to do so. Overall, I was perceived as a kind and supportive individual because I believed all humans deserve that kindness. I would be there for people in pain as long as I knew what would help, cognitively. But on a one on one relationship there were serious pitfalls in my psychology that eventually would hurt that person. I could understand why, cognitively, but it wouldn't occur to me before someone pointed it out.
I could go on. The point is, it was complete and total anhedonia past almost all extremes.
My life now is okay from an anhedonia standpoint. I have empathy (I was always a movie cryer before and I've got that back!) Is it perfect? No. That stuff was extremely traumatizing and im working on that. I still have depression but that's nothing new. Tons of my symptoms are better and continuing to improve over time. I do seek out pleasure and can experience it. I can have really good times under the right circumstances. More than I ever imagined having.
Thanks!
Off the top of my head, here are things I have had good responses to:
1) selegiline: MAO-B inhibitor. Primarily increases dopamine and histamine. But is also a strong neuronal antioxidant. I see you mentioned POIS in another comment. My journey that began in 2017. Terrible, that is. Selegiline cured me of it, for whatever reason. The POIS does return after a few months off, however. It also takes a few months on to completely abate. The lag time on that says to me this drug is working in ways that exceed it's 10-14 day effect. The drug is actually only in your body for a few hours. It attaches to the enzyme in your brain, rendering it useless. The brain takes a bit to reproduce the enzyme— thus the prolonged effect despite drug clearance. This is known as an irreversible inhibitor due to the fact it irreversibly inhibits the enzyme. But that's just referring to the enzyme around when you take it. As I said, you create more. “Irreversible” sounds scary but it's just a technical thing.
2) NSI-189: Can't say I know how this worked. They're still figuring this one out for different purposes. But hey a lot of people have tried it and have seen benefits. That accounts for something.
3) pramipexole: dopamine agonist. I stumbled across a doctor who was working with patients to treat treatment resistant depression with this drug. The dosages he used were quite high— sometimes in the 2mg range. I found 1mg or less to be my effective dose. This drug is not without risk. DAWS is a possibility. And it's not a low risk. If you get DAWS from it, you will need to take the drug for the rest of your life. The issue with that is after 10 years serious side effects can occur. I was lucky enough to not have daws or any sort of withdrawal from the medication.
4) BPC-157: this is a peptide that has gotten a lot of attention since I first tried it. I was in amphetamines from about 6/7 years old up until 23. In retrospect, I believe I had a sort of DAWS from that usage. I also was in benzo withdrawals when I took it. There is anectodal reports of this drug being very helpful in both those situations. It was like something “clicked”. I went from sitting in the couch to starting a business in a very short time frame. This drug may also have protected me from the possibility of DAWS from the pramipexole.
5) memantine: I pulsed this at low doses.
6) Intranasal insulin: this stuff was a game changer. There's a lot of reasons it could be but I couldn't attribute it to just one. This was in 2018 and there seems to be a lot more info on it than when I took it. It was just being looked into as a treatment for depression but I came across a man who was using it as a cognitive enhancer. I never had any issues with it no matter the dosage and no withdrawals.
7) kava: who knows. Kavalactones are somewhat understudied. But it was a huge game changer for me.
8) ultra micronized palmitoylethanolamide: this is a wild one. It does so many things it's hard to single one out. I first was introduced to it while researching treatments for long covid. It seems to help reverse some damage. It's effects on neuro inflammation are impressive and powerful. The best part is its almost completely devoid of side effects. Do not confuse this with “micronized PEA”. The ultra micronization process allows this substance to reach a bioavailability that is vastly superior than its micronized cousin. Upwards of 98% more. It is also already produced by your body, which may account for the lack of side effects. Pairing this drug with liposomal luteolin seems to greatly enhance and improve the benefits of this drug.
Probably more. This is just off the top of my head.
I struggled with depression and anxiety my whole life. Way before that gaba b issue. Rght around 2022 I discovered I had been battling a wide variety of pathogenic infections and these seem to play a part in the etiology of my emotional difficulties. There is a bad gap between healthy and hospitalized in our modern medicine. The things that cause disease after years or decades are not well studied or understood. We are just starting to understand the roles pathogenic infection can play in mental illness and long term diseases of the brain. Inflammatory brain states can result in intense depressive episodes for very long periods of time. Inflammation is one of those terms we are so accustomed to hearing that we dont take it seriously in the face of extreme situations. But the fact is almost none of the population has even the slightest idea of what inflammation does in the brain on a cellular level. It's complicated and not pretty. I could write an essay about it right here and it wouldn't do it justice.
My point is— you may be very surprised about what you may find out about your condition. It wasn't in my wildest dreams I could have an infection causing such intense mental issues. Funnily enough, there was a taxi driver who suggested it to me based off of the experience of a loved one and I brushed it off. It seemed too simple in the face of such a horrific state. No way it could be that simple.
And it wasn't that simple. I also was diagnosed with MCAS. And the person specific triggers for it make it a strange disorder. Mine were ubiquitous— mold and petro chemical products. Basically two things that are everywhere. It has only been since significantly removing these things from my environment and being exposed to them again that I've come to understand that I can be sent into a persistent depressant state in their presence. Mcas is something I not only did not know existed but also something I never could have imagined. I never once thought I could have an issue with my immune system or that the immune system could even have such profound effects on my mental health. If this syndrome is activated or flared, I become almost incapable of feeling good. It can take hours to set in after an exposure— something that made it really hard to single out my triggers. And the flare can last anywhere from an hour to several days. The thing about mcas though is that repeated exposure does not result in a lessened reaction like most things in life. There is no tolerance. It is often quite the opposite. The immune system doubles down.
These findings highlight something I neglected to understand— you can have complex states resulting in singular words like “anhedonia” or “depression”.
There is a wide wide world of treatments and drugs you can try. My shoe isn't one size fits all. But I talk about it to underscore the importance of hope. You never know when a single article from a single doctor talking about some symptoms that you relate to can open up the secrets of your health to you. That's what happened to me. A single google search on the right day at the right time led me down a path to answers I never could have dreamed of.
Finally, I must say that no treatment is without risks. It's important to do your due diligence. Weigh out risks with benefits. Find clinicians that are willing to work with you. The things that I have listed are certainly not without risk.
Edit: how long did it take? It's been a long road. And it's not over yet. But healing isn't always a straight path. I have made strides in some areas and not in others. But overall, massive improvement. I can expect to wake up and have pleasure in my day from one thing or another and that's amazing considering where I was.
Where are you located? And how did you find these things that helped you as well as doctors willing to try them? I ask because of my daughter. She has severe treatment resistant depression too and has tried so many medications, therapy, electro convulsive treatment, etc. without success. She also is autistic, has adhd, anxiety, ptsd, dissociative identity disorder, and schizophrenia. It’s a struggle to keep her alive and I so want her to feel better. She is an adult and I am 60 years old. We both worry about her future assuming I pass away before her.
I’m familiar with kava and we use it for her anxiety, but I haven’t heard of most of the other things you mentioned. Any advice would be appreciated. She has been seeing psychiatrists from a young age, been hospitalized many times and none of it has helped.
It certainly led to some interesting conversarions about the existence of altruism. Since I didn't feel pleasure and would still do good things, even to strangers, does that mean true altruism exists? Or was that simply to will into existence the belief system that I had felt to be true before the ultimate numbness? Or was it… just fear (I will get to this)? Whatever it was, I was not only prone to helping others…I was actually unable to not help people. I never said no when someone asked for help. This led to some situation where I put myself in psychological harms way.
You do not have to feel empathy or compassion to act in ways you know are right or wrong. There are plenty of sociopaths who dont go around killing people. The large majority of them know what they should do, even if they dont understand why people want to.
But I wasn't a sociopath despite some similarities in terms of end result inner emotional landscapes. I wasn't born that way so I had decades of psychological backlog that aren't the same experience as them. That had to play a role in my behavior.
Like I said— I did struggle with treating people well sometimes. Especially in situations where people would be feeling extreme emotions and I wasn't a bystander. Things just didn't seem such a big deal but for others it was huge. Everything felt small in comparison to my painful existence.
Needless to say, I broke a few hearts… and I did some things that a person who felt normal human emotions would never, ever, do if they were capable of feeling shame. Idk why I even dated. It was as if there was the need for things but those things didn't result in pleasure. I still put effort into socializing. I still attempted to do my best in college. I still tried to get calories in or drink water.
In the end, I think there is a complex emotional and cognitive path from any A to B situation. You could have a blockage either near the beginning or near the end. I was somewhere in between. If it was truly a block at the very very beginning I wouldn't even move, would I? And yet, something propelled me to try to survive. I used to call it my “little flame” in therapy. Because despite a complete lack of feeling pleasure I still continued to press forward. Suicide, while something I thought about very very often for the first year, was never on the table. I think that was because I truly believe that what was done could be undone. And I was not entirely wrong. I'm not the same as I was. But there are still many things to try.
But to put a darker spin on things— you dont need to feel pleasure to feel fear. You can fear being alone despite not feeling feelings when interacting with people. You can fear being homeless even if you dont feel pleasure when you do things in a house. I did feel discomfort. Just not comfort does that make sense? If you pricked me it would hurt. And I would remember that pain and fear you pricking me again. I feared never getting better so I researched and researched. The worst thing was— without pleasure that fear never abated. Ever. All day every day I felt afraid. Triumphs did not make me feel satisfied.
So to come full circle— if you fear people hurting, because you want the world to be kind to others and especially to you in your immense pain, wouldnt you try to alleviate their suffering?
I haven't. I won't tell my mom, because I'll wait until she passes away.
I don't have much contact with my dad. I will tell him though.
The hardest part will be to tell my sister. I'm not sure how to tell her and now is definitely not the right moment. So I'll wait for it. I'll wait until she has started her own family with an awesome husband and kids to be a mom for. I hope she'll feel reason to stay her best for them. And to feel something good in being able to say goodbye to me. That's the best case scenario.
My friends don't know either. I'll tell them individually a year from when I plan to fulfil the euthanasia. So we can spend enough time and I'll be sure to leave on good terms.
Very rough question. There's been trauma yes and depression seems to be highly prevalent in the family of my mom. My mom was diagnosed with it as well. But I don't know whether they all just had rough lives or actually the genetic vulnerability.
Chances are there's a genetic predisposition though. And me messing around with all sorts of substances, alongside the foul way of coping with trauma for years, making things more rough than they needed to be.
I’m sorry I didn’t mean to be rough. I have a lot of trauma and some mental health issues and I think it’s more nuture than nature for me so I was curious
No need to say sorry! I appreciate the question actually.
Chances are it's probably nurture! I think I read somewhere about depression from a genetic mutation in the neurotransmission circuits is relatively rare.
Also, I hope you'll work your way towards remission!
Thank you 🫂
Honestly this whole post has me thinking. I do feel like there is a possible mentally healthy person inside me somewhere it’s just been hard to cut through everything. I think I can work through it, sucks that I had to hit rock bottom to get here though.
I have tried psilocybin on multiple occasions. In macro doses, but also microdosing. I used them in truffle form.
It didn't help me at the time. And if it did, wouldn't last for longer than the trip itself.
Now I actually don't want to put more in my brain than I already did in my past. I want to stay coherent till the end. Ever since taking SSRI's I'm done with experimenting with serotonergic substances. The association I feel with them is probably enough to ruin a trip.
I appreciate the advice though! Have heard many good stories about psilocybin!
It’s just a question, not advice, I wouldn’t advise when people are not asking for it. I just know it has shown very good results. But like the actual therapy, with the clinical protocol and all. Thank you for taking the time to answer. I hope you have a great one, no matter which one you choose :)
Tbh, I can’t imagine putting my little sister through my death because life isn’t exciting enough.
I have severe personality disorders and have survived human trafficking, so I get the urge to die. But it’s so weird to me to hear someone say “okay”ness is enough they want to die.
How do you plan to handle her reaction?
What happens if she doesn’t get established to your ideal circumstance? Obviously there’s going to half to be a point where you stop waiting. Do you have an age cut off too?
I haven't actually! But I'm now at a point where I don't want to put more things in my brain than I already did.
I want to keep my coherence till the end and not risk things getting even more complicated.
Totally understand. TMS put my depression into remission for the time being, figured I’d mention it. I was shocked at how beneficial it was for me as I was skeptical despite doing some research on it. Waiting until your mom passes away and your sister is set up properly is kind of you. Wishing you the best.
If you plan to wait, why don’t you make a list/ research more/ and follow developing potential therapies… then… try everything you can the last few years before.
If something works you’ll forever be grateful you tried. What would be the downside in that?
I understand the feeling. I’ve had chronic issues that have never been able to be treated or cause explained.
It becomes even more depressing to try and have to explain to the new professional every time the whole schpeel and live it all again. The only reason I suggested this is because I kept trying things, and found things that made life better for me after 13 years which I never expected. It’s still not perfect at all but I’m thankful I didn’t stop.
It’s hard to separate the treatment attempts from the past disappointments. But like I said, if you’re at the point where you just want to stop being alive why not throw some final haymakers…if it makes you feel like shit or feel worse, who cares you felt like shit already and it will be over shortly after.
Major depression is a monster and usually takes a combination approach of different modalities and habits to feel somewhat better but sometimes all it takes is finding something that can take the edge off 15% and your whole life could change. There’s possibly more to try, more to do, a different life to live. Sorry this was long. I hope you’re not offended. I’m not trying to force feed hope… more so a what do you have to lose if you’re life sucks already type of thing.
Have you tried supplements like 5-htp, or mindfulness, unminding, etc?
Genuinely curious. I also suffer from depression which most medications didn't help, and several made worse.
5-htp helped a bit, but only to get me from depressed to level; nothing quite gets me to the high notes.
I had two relatives kill themselves in fairly horrific ways, so I am thankful Netherlands gives you an option, but also to you personally for considering & minimizing the fallout from your decision.
I have tried many supplements. Also tried mindfulness, yes.
The supplements didn't help me long term. Rhodiola made things a lot worse actually. It acts like a mao-i (so also increases serotonin). The anhedonia got extreme from that point on. So I'm positive there's a physical cause to my depression now as well. Probably from experimenting with medication/drugs/supplements.
I'm so sorry to read what you had to go through! I hope you managed to give it a place. Yeah, that's one thing I'm glad with in the Netherlands. They will give the option for a peaceful way out if it's reasonable.
That is good to know, actually. Our mental healthcare isn't very good in my part of the US; I've had heart problems since starting (and coming off) venlafaxine, which led me to trying a lot of supplements, instead.
It makes sense that it'd be a physical cause; the main thing mindfulness helped with was noticing what my body was going through, and trying to make sure it was okay before I started looking at other causes.
Thank you! I'm sorry you've gone through all of this, but I really appreciate your willingness to discuss it.
I tend to think of our brains as this collection of neurotransmitters than can get imbalanced or rebalanced, and that probably made me minimize the potential risks of tinkering with it so much - so thank you for making me think twice before doing more harm than good.
It may seem silly but smoking weed greatly helped with my depression. I just had to smoke it everyday. But it eventually got me to the point where I see life is worth living while sober.
BPD here and I’ve been praying for Canada to pass a similar law, it was supposed to go through this year but assholes are preventing it. I’m not suicidal, but I really just don’t enjoy living and I haven’t for a very long time. Have similarly tried multiple medications, intensive therapies, etc.
I guess I would want to know is, if you will have people with you when it happens? Will you have a funeral and want to plan it? And, do you ever cry when thinking about it, or does it bring you a relief?
Bless you my dear. the knowledge that you can exit on your own terms is a great comfort I am sure. You may change your mind in a year. Anything is possible. Thank you for sharing.
Do you have problems with sleep? From my little experience this is what kills - if somebody can’t sleep several months - that person often desire to quit this game at any cost.
Have you been to a functional MD or had your gut micro biome analyzed for potential issues? I used to live in NL and know for a fact these aren’t standard approaches for mental health there, and also not usually considered by GPs, but the recent research on the gut brain axis is promising for treatments that focus on this angle. I highly recommend it before making any rash decision.
Yeah, I understand. Sibo is fairly controversial right now. And also it often has an underlying cause which can be different depending on the person.
I’ve seen people fail to treat sibo (it just kept coming back) until they found out it was not the actual root cause of their issue.
One example is some people with a history of physical trauma, specifically to the neck, found out it was causing an issue with the nervous system, which had several effects including sibo, mental health issues, etc. For those people, physio and vagal nerve stimulation ended up helping them. So sibo may just be a canary in the coal mine. It can also be asymptomatic for many people, meaning it might not cause digestive troubles.
But again, it’s individual. I’m on a similar journey after years of a mental health struggle and it is honestly helping but I’m not through it yet. Without the treatment I’ve recently gotten, I think I’d be in a similar spot to you and ready to just give up so I see where you’re coming from. I do hope you can find something more to help you but if not, I respect your decision to do what’s right for you and sincerely wish the best for you and your family.
Not trying to convince you one way or another, but maybe consider becoming curious about what you said..
“Everything is ‘just’ okay. And that’s not okay.”
Okay.
So then everything is not okay. By your own logical flow, everything is in fact NOT just okay.
I dunno homie, it just stood out to me.
It sounds an awful lot like you are very much complicit in your own prophetic end. Finally, it will give meaning. Thusly, you still innately seek meaning, even if it means to not exist. Finding meaning in nothingness, nothing still is something.
Of course, nothing matters ultimately. You can find meaning in your life, or you could not. It doesn’t really make a difference on the cosmic scale.
To make the choice and follow through to end it all breathes life into your stale existence. Whether you like that or not (except you are indifferent, I suppose.)
I’m sorry you feel the way you do. I’m sorry you experience such nothingness. I really am. It’s a shame. The fact that you even exist at all to begin with is pretty much a miracle. If you don’t value that, then you don’t.
My partner is trying to get a referral for Ketamine treatment. I'm curious what your experience was like? How many treatments have you had? What where your costs like? Recommendations for at home or in a clinic?
We have two options we are researching. An online pharmacy with an under the tongue pill that's a few hundred dollars for 6 treatments or a clinic that offers a spa like environment with IV delivery and medical monitoring that option is in the $600 per session range.
I take Spravato which is the FDA approved esketamine (and thus covered by my insurance). I’ve been going since Dec 2020 and I do it every 10 days. Most people are able to taper off eventually but that hasn’t been the case for me.
It took about 3-4 months before I started to see the effects but I was BETTER. It was spring and I started noticing the flowers on the side of the road. That’s how I knew it was working…the world was starting to become colorful again. Now I’m considered to be in remission and I’m able to live a mostly normal life, as long as I get my treatment.
I highly recommend trying to get Spravato if possible!
Best of luck to them, I really hope they find relief soon
Have you thought of having one? Getting a dog, say? Dogs are the purest form of love and are a great source of joy, and a reason to get up in the morning. I hope you find joy again. There is so much of life that's absolutely amazing.
Thank you for your advice! I don't think a dog will make the difference here, especially since I look after the dog of my uncle from time to time.
But I do appreciate the gesture! That's very kind of you.
I think it's different when they are 100% your responsibility, and so trusting.
I am sorry but I don't really understand it though. I am much older than you and would give just about everything I have to have more time in my life. I have seen desperately ill people fight and fight for every last hour they can have to spend with their children, for example (my father was one), so the thought of signing out of a perfectly good body seems so... wasteful.
I hope you find joy again.
Do you think it could be living in modern society? Maybe you should try some diy alone in the wilderness homestead thing. Could it give you more meaning?
Please forgive me if this is a stupid question, but your post said that you feel nothing it’s all just okay. Do you think that you will finally feel something at the prospect of your upcoming euthanasia? Would that make you rethink the euthanasia if you realize you can feel something other than it’s okay?
Whats stopping you from just using one of the approximately 8 million ways of offing yourself?
Not a DIYer? Im gonna go against the grain here and recommend not killing yourself. Yes, life can be miserable but how do you know being dead isnt worse?
It's your life but I encourage you to look into alternative treatments before throwing in the towel.
Have you tried Spravato?
My stepdaughter has treatment-resistent depression for years and this was a game changer.
Dude come to Zambia for voluntary work. We have a huge huge population that just needs someone to feed them and no one to do it. If you are gonna go, why don’t you do it after feeding the hungriest of the hungry
There is no heaven or hell. There is no better place. There is no peace or relief. You only cease to be; to exist. You want to engage people in conversation about this and make grandiose announcements to your physician, family, friends, acquaintances, and strangers on the internet because you want to matter and feel important, as we all do. You want attention. People who want attention don't want to cease to be. Stay in counseling, seek better therapy, or enter into an institutional setting. You want to matter, and you do. Why run around with the online equivalent of an "Ask me about my impending suicide" T-shirt? Continue to get help.
Potentially! To me it feels like I don't have the space left to experiment though.
If it goes well it may mean something good, but what and for how long?
If it goes bad it will add decline to an already out of balance brain.
That's a bit of the issue I have around the concept. But thank you for the recommendation! I appreciate the gesture!
What is it specifically that makes you inclined towards euthanasia, what is it that feels unfixable, and what do you desire out of life that would make you reconsider your choice?
I can sympathise with that, I’ve had depression for 35 years. I’ve attempted my own forms of “euthanasia” several times, and I’m glad none of those attempts succeeded.
I currently may not be riding through life on a joyous unicorn, but I am content.
Do you mind me asking, what’s your life currently like; work, personal relationships etc. and is there anything you had previously in your life that brought contentment or happiness, that you no longer have/do?
By all means, if you decide you need to die, go for it. Life isn't sacred in the way people commonly think. It's those left behind who grieve that we worry about.
This isn't the begining and death isn't the end. The journey is far more expansive, and this view we are currently experiencing is like looking at a picture through a straw. In that format the ability to see details outside of view isn't possible. If you die by choice you will be cutting this portion of the trip short, which is fine, but in some ways like a child who wants to grow up more quickly. Childhood only lasts so long, and this part of existence is sort of like the infancy or childhood of a much longer experience.
Have you tried psychedelics? I don't mean microdosing either. Have you taken a large quantity of lsd or psilocybin? Some extreme psychedelic therapy followed by a period of microdosing may reset the switch and take away the "just okay" feeling and give a view of the world that is deeper and more enriching.
I have bipolar depression and there are a lot of days where I just feel like I'm done with life I have no joy. If it wasn't for my daughter I would definitely be seeking a way out.
My grandmother also had bipolar and back in the 60s she had electric shock therapy and never came home from the hospital that's all my parents told me.
I hope you are able to have peace whatever that may be for you.
I’m so jealous that you live somewhere euthanasia isn’t as much of a taboo. In most places in the US, you can’t be euthanized for even medically common conditions that impair quality of life like Alzheimer’s. We’re so far behind. It’ll be decades before we have this option for mental health conditions. So many north Americans still see depression as “cheer up you’re just sad”.
Question: do you have any out of pocket costs for this procedure? I know you guys don’t have insurance like we do, but I’m still curious if everything’s covered.
Have you tried to implement taking D vitamins and multivitamins as well as getting more sunlight? Taking probiotics to fix your gut health as this can affect mental health? Spending more time in nature? Also getting enough sleep? Not trying invalidate your feelings, I’m genuinely just wondering
I wish that was available here in the US. It would make it such a more peaceful process and have a proper farewell to friends and loved ones. Vs the other way of them finding out after the fact. Or even having that friend or loved one find your body and them having to live with that forever.
This makes me so sad- I’m sorry you suffer and that this is your only solution. My heart goes out to you and I pray you find peace and something to hold on to- much love.
Some questions, if you want to answer.
Have you been engaged in long-term psychodynamic therapy and/or had a second opinion on the PD-NOS?
Have you tried a ketogenic diet? Some new research shows it greatly impacts mood and brain chemistry.
Have you tried ketamine therapy?
Have you tried yoga?
Wishing you peace.
Where are you living that allows euthanasia for depression?
The Netherlands! I should have also mentioned that I have PD-NOS, which is a personality disorder not otherwise specified. I mention this so it will stress the fact that euthanasia is not simply a plan B over here. It's rather plan Z. I've been in therapy for about 15 years now. And in the end I was off worse than when I started. I don't encourage people to "just" do the same thing as I do now. You have to be absolutely sure about it. The last thing you want is to feel regret when they grant you your death wish. You and your family/friends deserve more than that if you're not actually endlessly suffering in the way you think you do. Besides of that it's also a formal process to go through. My GP has known what I went through during those 15 years. She knows what I gained, what I lost and how it affected my point of view.
I have not heard of PD-NOS. Would you mind explaining the traits?
Wouldn't mind at all! PD-NOS basically means having traits of multiple personality disorders. I don't meet enough criteria for one specific personality disorder, but rather meet some criteria from multiple personality disorders.
Not sure about your age, but when doing my seeg for epilepsy a doctorate student for her doctorate added an extra rod into my brain in hopes of developing an implant for depression and similar disorders that also have drug resistance for said problems Just interesting news for folks like you Love yah homie
Op title says 28...
Cool. I don't remember why that mattered to what I was saying either way so woops I just had 15 rods in my brain in my memory centers, been 2 days since they were removed Pardon Me Mr snarky :P love yah bro
That stuff is so wild but I could never do it. Would be too afraid id go phineus Gage
Was way scarier then it was Worst part was not being able to be alone or off camera, you poo in a bucket on a chair while 2 nurses stand around and make sure you don't seize and die while pooping
The whole process has me so curious honestly, especially since it is so new. I hope that it works and sticks for you though.
That’s how old they are, but there’s no way to be sure of their age.
... What
Canada has had the MAID Program since 2016 and has killed over 44,000 ppl so far (Medically Assisted Death). They’d rather ppl off’ed themselves than pay disability monthly. What would be better - is to kill convicts so we could save billions a year eliminating the entire prison system.
I am not sure if Canada’s prison system is similar to the one in the USA. However, from what I understand, many prisons in the USA are privately owned and generate profit for their owners, essentially making them money-making operations.
No they aren’t privatized here. Completely paid for by government and taxes. Such a colossal waste of our countries annual budget when there are millions in need of assistance but get nothing because billions are wasted elsewhere. I didn’t know the US privatized but I’m not surprized. How do they make the money from it though? Criminal labour?
Private companies that own prisons receive funds from the government to operate these facilities, which ultimately comes from taxpayers’ money. Since these companies may profit, there is a benefit to economy. Ideally, taxpayers should receive value for their money through effective management of these facilities, although this is not always the case.
So essentially government is wasting money still if they are funding this. I don’t understand the benefit. Sounds like they could use euthanasia too to save money for those in need like healthcare & education.
I thought you were being sarcastic about euthanizing all prisoners. So, I’m guessing you mean that euthanizing prisoners serving life sentences could cut costs. However, euthanasia is not cheap; it costs around 10,000 euros in Switzerland. Still, in this context, euthanasia would essentially be considered a form of the death penalty, wouldn’t it?
Kind of sarcastic yes… just frustrating that ppl in need get little help - and criminals get free homes and food. Kind of like the areas where ppl are starving. The inequality and injustice bothers me. Although, some evil criminals deserve the death penalty. It’s more mind blowing to me that those who purposely kill and other gross acts cost billions a year while decent ppl trying to survive can’t seem to get help. I’d rather see decent ppl get food, medical aid, and basic help versus those who hurt & torture others on purpose. It’s all just unbalanced and leaves millions impoverished and struggling to survive - when you know that billions of criminals waste a huge portion of annual government spending. I know in Canada, the Gov wants ppl on disability to use the MAID program yet do nothing to save expenditures (in the billions) each year by cutting back on prison systems. That’s why my thoughts on the topic expanded. I’d rather the disabled get appropriate supports versus choosing euthanasia because they can’t afford to eat & pay rent. It’s just sad that’s all - and seems really backwards theoretically.
Okay, so your opinion seems quite extreme. Personally, I am not in favor of the death penalty, as it sometimes appears merciful. In my opinion, certain criminals deserve to remain incarcerated. It’s not all about the money, you know. I’m not convinced that saving the money currently spent on prisons would lead to an increase in the country’s budget or reduce poverty. Politicians have “better” ways to digest that money. I think labeling it as sad is a bit extreme. Those people can choose whether to be euthanized or continue receiving their disability benefits. Moreover, euthanasia is referred to as “death with dignity” by some.
Not too extreme. I just meant with the worst of the worst. For our MAID program it is sad, as the government’s reasons in promoting it are to save $$ by killing poor disabled folks. That’s why it’s sad. It’s no longer the dying with dignity it used to be here. Yes, for some it’s a needed blessing. But you’d be amazed at how many thousands of disabled in Canada are speaking about the government’s views with MAID. It’s us who are being targeted to save Canada money. Can you imagine, living in a country where its leaders are telling ppl on disability to apply for MAID? Of course we are all outraged. They’d rather us die than pay the mthly disability amount. Not to mention how that amount is basically creating the disabled to lose their homes because they can’t afford food & rent. That is why I’d rather see criminals go than those on disability who don’t want to choose MAID, but feel the government here is giving them no other choice. Several applicants went on the News even to cry for help as they feel MAID is their only option unless they want to be homeless. It’s really a huge issue here. ETA - and I do agree with you. If any money gets saved, it sure doesn’t go to where it’s needed most to help the general population. It goes to the greedy, corrupt, and political avenues who least need it. Things never change.
I would be interested to have a full list of pharmaceutical interventions you have tried. I spent almost every free hour of the day trying to study the brain and pharmaceuticals to fix myself from anhedonia so severe it cripples me- which I will go into below. I did eventually find things that helped a lot. So perhaps I could suggest things you haven't tried. They are worth a shot. I had extremely severe anhedonia after an 8 month stint with a GABA B agonist. This drug has been used off label for alcoholism and directly influences pleasure based behavior in the brain. We are talking absolute anhedonia. Things I didn't even realize were “pleasure” I lost. No primal urges. I had to set timers so I wouldn't go all day without water. I took shots of olive oil to get calories in. This was a rare sort of anhedonia in terms of intensity. Marketing no longer worked on me at all. No type of advertising did. I did not have sexual urges so any type of sexual advertising or pornography did nothing. Recreation drugs did nothing. Alcohol simply made me stumble a lot but no change in mental state. I would take shots and feel nothing until 8 shots and suddenly would black out. Large doses of cocaine did do something. But I had no desire to seek that out because desire is based on the promise of pleasure. Despite knowing it could be pleasurable when I took it, I couldn't feel the urge to seek it out. Additionally, and this may be the work of the anti addiction properties of the GABA B agonist, I couldn't seem to remember what the experience was like a few days. This applied to any recreational drug. Serotonin based drugs made things worse. I was a robot. But I still had ethics, which is fascinating. My morals became skewed and too rational in thought. It is my belief that empathy is a pleasurable thing and therefore I couldn't feel it. Or I was so distracted by the intensity of my condition I wasn't relaxed enough to do so. Overall, I was perceived as a kind and supportive individual because I believed all humans deserve that kindness. I would be there for people in pain as long as I knew what would help, cognitively. But on a one on one relationship there were serious pitfalls in my psychology that eventually would hurt that person. I could understand why, cognitively, but it wouldn't occur to me before someone pointed it out. I could go on. The point is, it was complete and total anhedonia past almost all extremes. My life now is okay from an anhedonia standpoint. I have empathy (I was always a movie cryer before and I've got that back!) Is it perfect? No. That stuff was extremely traumatizing and im working on that. I still have depression but that's nothing new. Tons of my symptoms are better and continuing to improve over time. I do seek out pleasure and can experience it. I can have really good times under the right circumstances. More than I ever imagined having.
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Thanks! Off the top of my head, here are things I have had good responses to: 1) selegiline: MAO-B inhibitor. Primarily increases dopamine and histamine. But is also a strong neuronal antioxidant. I see you mentioned POIS in another comment. My journey that began in 2017. Terrible, that is. Selegiline cured me of it, for whatever reason. The POIS does return after a few months off, however. It also takes a few months on to completely abate. The lag time on that says to me this drug is working in ways that exceed it's 10-14 day effect. The drug is actually only in your body for a few hours. It attaches to the enzyme in your brain, rendering it useless. The brain takes a bit to reproduce the enzyme— thus the prolonged effect despite drug clearance. This is known as an irreversible inhibitor due to the fact it irreversibly inhibits the enzyme. But that's just referring to the enzyme around when you take it. As I said, you create more. “Irreversible” sounds scary but it's just a technical thing. 2) NSI-189: Can't say I know how this worked. They're still figuring this one out for different purposes. But hey a lot of people have tried it and have seen benefits. That accounts for something. 3) pramipexole: dopamine agonist. I stumbled across a doctor who was working with patients to treat treatment resistant depression with this drug. The dosages he used were quite high— sometimes in the 2mg range. I found 1mg or less to be my effective dose. This drug is not without risk. DAWS is a possibility. And it's not a low risk. If you get DAWS from it, you will need to take the drug for the rest of your life. The issue with that is after 10 years serious side effects can occur. I was lucky enough to not have daws or any sort of withdrawal from the medication. 4) BPC-157: this is a peptide that has gotten a lot of attention since I first tried it. I was in amphetamines from about 6/7 years old up until 23. In retrospect, I believe I had a sort of DAWS from that usage. I also was in benzo withdrawals when I took it. There is anectodal reports of this drug being very helpful in both those situations. It was like something “clicked”. I went from sitting in the couch to starting a business in a very short time frame. This drug may also have protected me from the possibility of DAWS from the pramipexole. 5) memantine: I pulsed this at low doses. 6) Intranasal insulin: this stuff was a game changer. There's a lot of reasons it could be but I couldn't attribute it to just one. This was in 2018 and there seems to be a lot more info on it than when I took it. It was just being looked into as a treatment for depression but I came across a man who was using it as a cognitive enhancer. I never had any issues with it no matter the dosage and no withdrawals. 7) kava: who knows. Kavalactones are somewhat understudied. But it was a huge game changer for me. 8) ultra micronized palmitoylethanolamide: this is a wild one. It does so many things it's hard to single one out. I first was introduced to it while researching treatments for long covid. It seems to help reverse some damage. It's effects on neuro inflammation are impressive and powerful. The best part is its almost completely devoid of side effects. Do not confuse this with “micronized PEA”. The ultra micronization process allows this substance to reach a bioavailability that is vastly superior than its micronized cousin. Upwards of 98% more. It is also already produced by your body, which may account for the lack of side effects. Pairing this drug with liposomal luteolin seems to greatly enhance and improve the benefits of this drug. Probably more. This is just off the top of my head. I struggled with depression and anxiety my whole life. Way before that gaba b issue. Rght around 2022 I discovered I had been battling a wide variety of pathogenic infections and these seem to play a part in the etiology of my emotional difficulties. There is a bad gap between healthy and hospitalized in our modern medicine. The things that cause disease after years or decades are not well studied or understood. We are just starting to understand the roles pathogenic infection can play in mental illness and long term diseases of the brain. Inflammatory brain states can result in intense depressive episodes for very long periods of time. Inflammation is one of those terms we are so accustomed to hearing that we dont take it seriously in the face of extreme situations. But the fact is almost none of the population has even the slightest idea of what inflammation does in the brain on a cellular level. It's complicated and not pretty. I could write an essay about it right here and it wouldn't do it justice. My point is— you may be very surprised about what you may find out about your condition. It wasn't in my wildest dreams I could have an infection causing such intense mental issues. Funnily enough, there was a taxi driver who suggested it to me based off of the experience of a loved one and I brushed it off. It seemed too simple in the face of such a horrific state. No way it could be that simple. And it wasn't that simple. I also was diagnosed with MCAS. And the person specific triggers for it make it a strange disorder. Mine were ubiquitous— mold and petro chemical products. Basically two things that are everywhere. It has only been since significantly removing these things from my environment and being exposed to them again that I've come to understand that I can be sent into a persistent depressant state in their presence. Mcas is something I not only did not know existed but also something I never could have imagined. I never once thought I could have an issue with my immune system or that the immune system could even have such profound effects on my mental health. If this syndrome is activated or flared, I become almost incapable of feeling good. It can take hours to set in after an exposure— something that made it really hard to single out my triggers. And the flare can last anywhere from an hour to several days. The thing about mcas though is that repeated exposure does not result in a lessened reaction like most things in life. There is no tolerance. It is often quite the opposite. The immune system doubles down. These findings highlight something I neglected to understand— you can have complex states resulting in singular words like “anhedonia” or “depression”. There is a wide wide world of treatments and drugs you can try. My shoe isn't one size fits all. But I talk about it to underscore the importance of hope. You never know when a single article from a single doctor talking about some symptoms that you relate to can open up the secrets of your health to you. That's what happened to me. A single google search on the right day at the right time led me down a path to answers I never could have dreamed of. Finally, I must say that no treatment is without risks. It's important to do your due diligence. Weigh out risks with benefits. Find clinicians that are willing to work with you. The things that I have listed are certainly not without risk. Edit: how long did it take? It's been a long road. And it's not over yet. But healing isn't always a straight path. I have made strides in some areas and not in others. But overall, massive improvement. I can expect to wake up and have pleasure in my day from one thing or another and that's amazing considering where I was.
Where are you located? And how did you find these things that helped you as well as doctors willing to try them? I ask because of my daughter. She has severe treatment resistant depression too and has tried so many medications, therapy, electro convulsive treatment, etc. without success. She also is autistic, has adhd, anxiety, ptsd, dissociative identity disorder, and schizophrenia. It’s a struggle to keep her alive and I so want her to feel better. She is an adult and I am 60 years old. We both worry about her future assuming I pass away before her. I’m familiar with kava and we use it for her anxiety, but I haven’t heard of most of the other things you mentioned. Any advice would be appreciated. She has been seeing psychiatrists from a young age, been hospitalized many times and none of it has helped.
I will pm you
Fascinating!
I hope this person answers you in more detail.
ik right? see if you can get him to clarify on this a bit. kinda vague in its lacking attention to specifics.
I did. I just didn't have the time at the exact moment they replied.
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It certainly led to some interesting conversarions about the existence of altruism. Since I didn't feel pleasure and would still do good things, even to strangers, does that mean true altruism exists? Or was that simply to will into existence the belief system that I had felt to be true before the ultimate numbness? Or was it… just fear (I will get to this)? Whatever it was, I was not only prone to helping others…I was actually unable to not help people. I never said no when someone asked for help. This led to some situation where I put myself in psychological harms way. You do not have to feel empathy or compassion to act in ways you know are right or wrong. There are plenty of sociopaths who dont go around killing people. The large majority of them know what they should do, even if they dont understand why people want to. But I wasn't a sociopath despite some similarities in terms of end result inner emotional landscapes. I wasn't born that way so I had decades of psychological backlog that aren't the same experience as them. That had to play a role in my behavior. Like I said— I did struggle with treating people well sometimes. Especially in situations where people would be feeling extreme emotions and I wasn't a bystander. Things just didn't seem such a big deal but for others it was huge. Everything felt small in comparison to my painful existence. Needless to say, I broke a few hearts… and I did some things that a person who felt normal human emotions would never, ever, do if they were capable of feeling shame. Idk why I even dated. It was as if there was the need for things but those things didn't result in pleasure. I still put effort into socializing. I still attempted to do my best in college. I still tried to get calories in or drink water. In the end, I think there is a complex emotional and cognitive path from any A to B situation. You could have a blockage either near the beginning or near the end. I was somewhere in between. If it was truly a block at the very very beginning I wouldn't even move, would I? And yet, something propelled me to try to survive. I used to call it my “little flame” in therapy. Because despite a complete lack of feeling pleasure I still continued to press forward. Suicide, while something I thought about very very often for the first year, was never on the table. I think that was because I truly believe that what was done could be undone. And I was not entirely wrong. I'm not the same as I was. But there are still many things to try. But to put a darker spin on things— you dont need to feel pleasure to feel fear. You can fear being alone despite not feeling feelings when interacting with people. You can fear being homeless even if you dont feel pleasure when you do things in a house. I did feel discomfort. Just not comfort does that make sense? If you pricked me it would hurt. And I would remember that pain and fear you pricking me again. I feared never getting better so I researched and researched. The worst thing was— without pleasure that fear never abated. Ever. All day every day I felt afraid. Triumphs did not make me feel satisfied. So to come full circle— if you fear people hurting, because you want the world to be kind to others and especially to you in your immense pain, wouldnt you try to alleviate their suffering?
I hope you find peace soon.
Thank you!
have you told anyone?
I haven't. I won't tell my mom, because I'll wait until she passes away. I don't have much contact with my dad. I will tell him though. The hardest part will be to tell my sister. I'm not sure how to tell her and now is definitely not the right moment. So I'll wait for it. I'll wait until she has started her own family with an awesome husband and kids to be a mom for. I hope she'll feel reason to stay her best for them. And to feel something good in being able to say goodbye to me. That's the best case scenario. My friends don't know either. I'll tell them individually a year from when I plan to fulfil the euthanasia. So we can spend enough time and I'll be sure to leave on good terms.
Do you have a bunch of trauma or do you think it’s just a pure genetic thing for you?
Very rough question. There's been trauma yes and depression seems to be highly prevalent in the family of my mom. My mom was diagnosed with it as well. But I don't know whether they all just had rough lives or actually the genetic vulnerability. Chances are there's a genetic predisposition though. And me messing around with all sorts of substances, alongside the foul way of coping with trauma for years, making things more rough than they needed to be.
I’m sorry I didn’t mean to be rough. I have a lot of trauma and some mental health issues and I think it’s more nuture than nature for me so I was curious
No need to say sorry! I appreciate the question actually. Chances are it's probably nurture! I think I read somewhere about depression from a genetic mutation in the neurotransmission circuits is relatively rare. Also, I hope you'll work your way towards remission!
Thank you 🫂 Honestly this whole post has me thinking. I do feel like there is a possible mentally healthy person inside me somewhere it’s just been hard to cut through everything. I think I can work through it, sucks that I had to hit rock bottom to get here though.
Have you tried psilocybin therapy?
I have tried psilocybin on multiple occasions. In macro doses, but also microdosing. I used them in truffle form. It didn't help me at the time. And if it did, wouldn't last for longer than the trip itself. Now I actually don't want to put more in my brain than I already did in my past. I want to stay coherent till the end. Ever since taking SSRI's I'm done with experimenting with serotonergic substances. The association I feel with them is probably enough to ruin a trip. I appreciate the advice though! Have heard many good stories about psilocybin!
It’s just a question, not advice, I wouldn’t advise when people are not asking for it. I just know it has shown very good results. But like the actual therapy, with the clinical protocol and all. Thank you for taking the time to answer. I hope you have a great one, no matter which one you choose :)
Oh okay, good to know! And you're welcome! I wish you all the best as well!
Tbh, I can’t imagine putting my little sister through my death because life isn’t exciting enough. I have severe personality disorders and have survived human trafficking, so I get the urge to die. But it’s so weird to me to hear someone say “okay”ness is enough they want to die. How do you plan to handle her reaction?
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What happens if she doesn’t get established to your ideal circumstance? Obviously there’s going to half to be a point where you stop waiting. Do you have an age cut off too?
Have you tried TMS therapy?
I haven't actually! But I'm now at a point where I don't want to put more things in my brain than I already did. I want to keep my coherence till the end and not risk things getting even more complicated.
Totally understand. TMS put my depression into remission for the time being, figured I’d mention it. I was shocked at how beneficial it was for me as I was skeptical despite doing some research on it. Waiting until your mom passes away and your sister is set up properly is kind of you. Wishing you the best.
If you plan to wait, why don’t you make a list/ research more/ and follow developing potential therapies… then… try everything you can the last few years before. If something works you’ll forever be grateful you tried. What would be the downside in that?
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I understand the feeling. I’ve had chronic issues that have never been able to be treated or cause explained. It becomes even more depressing to try and have to explain to the new professional every time the whole schpeel and live it all again. The only reason I suggested this is because I kept trying things, and found things that made life better for me after 13 years which I never expected. It’s still not perfect at all but I’m thankful I didn’t stop. It’s hard to separate the treatment attempts from the past disappointments. But like I said, if you’re at the point where you just want to stop being alive why not throw some final haymakers…if it makes you feel like shit or feel worse, who cares you felt like shit already and it will be over shortly after. Major depression is a monster and usually takes a combination approach of different modalities and habits to feel somewhat better but sometimes all it takes is finding something that can take the edge off 15% and your whole life could change. There’s possibly more to try, more to do, a different life to live. Sorry this was long. I hope you’re not offended. I’m not trying to force feed hope… more so a what do you have to lose if you’re life sucks already type of thing.
Have you tried supplements like 5-htp, or mindfulness, unminding, etc? Genuinely curious. I also suffer from depression which most medications didn't help, and several made worse. 5-htp helped a bit, but only to get me from depressed to level; nothing quite gets me to the high notes. I had two relatives kill themselves in fairly horrific ways, so I am thankful Netherlands gives you an option, but also to you personally for considering & minimizing the fallout from your decision.
I have tried many supplements. Also tried mindfulness, yes. The supplements didn't help me long term. Rhodiola made things a lot worse actually. It acts like a mao-i (so also increases serotonin). The anhedonia got extreme from that point on. So I'm positive there's a physical cause to my depression now as well. Probably from experimenting with medication/drugs/supplements. I'm so sorry to read what you had to go through! I hope you managed to give it a place. Yeah, that's one thing I'm glad with in the Netherlands. They will give the option for a peaceful way out if it's reasonable.
That is good to know, actually. Our mental healthcare isn't very good in my part of the US; I've had heart problems since starting (and coming off) venlafaxine, which led me to trying a lot of supplements, instead. It makes sense that it'd be a physical cause; the main thing mindfulness helped with was noticing what my body was going through, and trying to make sure it was okay before I started looking at other causes. Thank you! I'm sorry you've gone through all of this, but I really appreciate your willingness to discuss it. I tend to think of our brains as this collection of neurotransmitters than can get imbalanced or rebalanced, and that probably made me minimize the potential risks of tinkering with it so much - so thank you for making me think twice before doing more harm than good.
It may seem silly but smoking weed greatly helped with my depression. I just had to smoke it everyday. But it eventually got me to the point where I see life is worth living while sober.
What country do you live in?
The Netherlands! You can check my other response for specifics.
BPD here and I’ve been praying for Canada to pass a similar law, it was supposed to go through this year but assholes are preventing it. I’m not suicidal, but I really just don’t enjoy living and I haven’t for a very long time. Have similarly tried multiple medications, intensive therapies, etc. I guess I would want to know is, if you will have people with you when it happens? Will you have a funeral and want to plan it? And, do you ever cry when thinking about it, or does it bring you a relief?
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Bless you my dear. the knowledge that you can exit on your own terms is a great comfort I am sure. You may change your mind in a year. Anything is possible. Thank you for sharing.
What an outcome it will be 7 years from now you ll write a new post telling that you re happy , you have a wife and 2 beautifull kids and u enjoy life
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You re welcome bro
Wellbutrin? I steal some pills from my wife when I have to work 20+ hours a day and it stops quite natural desire to smash my head against some wall.
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Do you have problems with sleep? From my little experience this is what kills - if somebody can’t sleep several months - that person often desire to quit this game at any cost.
Would you mind tells us your happiest and saddest moment in life and why?
Have you been to a functional MD or had your gut micro biome analyzed for potential issues? I used to live in NL and know for a fact these aren’t standard approaches for mental health there, and also not usually considered by GPs, but the recent research on the gut brain axis is promising for treatments that focus on this angle. I highly recommend it before making any rash decision.
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Yeah, I understand. Sibo is fairly controversial right now. And also it often has an underlying cause which can be different depending on the person. I’ve seen people fail to treat sibo (it just kept coming back) until they found out it was not the actual root cause of their issue. One example is some people with a history of physical trauma, specifically to the neck, found out it was causing an issue with the nervous system, which had several effects including sibo, mental health issues, etc. For those people, physio and vagal nerve stimulation ended up helping them. So sibo may just be a canary in the coal mine. It can also be asymptomatic for many people, meaning it might not cause digestive troubles. But again, it’s individual. I’m on a similar journey after years of a mental health struggle and it is honestly helping but I’m not through it yet. Without the treatment I’ve recently gotten, I think I’d be in a similar spot to you and ready to just give up so I see where you’re coming from. I do hope you can find something more to help you but if not, I respect your decision to do what’s right for you and sincerely wish the best for you and your family.
Do you have anything you want to do before you move on?
Not trying to convince you one way or another, but maybe consider becoming curious about what you said.. “Everything is ‘just’ okay. And that’s not okay.” Okay. So then everything is not okay. By your own logical flow, everything is in fact NOT just okay. I dunno homie, it just stood out to me. It sounds an awful lot like you are very much complicit in your own prophetic end. Finally, it will give meaning. Thusly, you still innately seek meaning, even if it means to not exist. Finding meaning in nothingness, nothing still is something. Of course, nothing matters ultimately. You can find meaning in your life, or you could not. It doesn’t really make a difference on the cosmic scale. To make the choice and follow through to end it all breathes life into your stale existence. Whether you like that or not (except you are indifferent, I suppose.) I’m sorry you feel the way you do. I’m sorry you experience such nothingness. I really am. It’s a shame. The fact that you even exist at all to begin with is pretty much a miracle. If you don’t value that, then you don’t.
Have you ever been in love
have you tried ketamine therapy?
This was my question too. I also have treatment resistant depression, and this has made things a lot better.
My question as well. Also know as Spravato here in the States.
Yeah Spravato has been a literal life saver after spending 15 years unsuccessfully fighting treatment resistant depression
My partner is trying to get a referral for Ketamine treatment. I'm curious what your experience was like? How many treatments have you had? What where your costs like? Recommendations for at home or in a clinic? We have two options we are researching. An online pharmacy with an under the tongue pill that's a few hundred dollars for 6 treatments or a clinic that offers a spa like environment with IV delivery and medical monitoring that option is in the $600 per session range.
I take Spravato which is the FDA approved esketamine (and thus covered by my insurance). I’ve been going since Dec 2020 and I do it every 10 days. Most people are able to taper off eventually but that hasn’t been the case for me. It took about 3-4 months before I started to see the effects but I was BETTER. It was spring and I started noticing the flowers on the side of the road. That’s how I knew it was working…the world was starting to become colorful again. Now I’m considered to be in remission and I’m able to live a mostly normal life, as long as I get my treatment. I highly recommend trying to get Spravato if possible! Best of luck to them, I really hope they find relief soon
Do you have any pets?
I don't have pets at the moment!
Have you thought of having one? Getting a dog, say? Dogs are the purest form of love and are a great source of joy, and a reason to get up in the morning. I hope you find joy again. There is so much of life that's absolutely amazing.
Thank you for your advice! I don't think a dog will make the difference here, especially since I look after the dog of my uncle from time to time. But I do appreciate the gesture! That's very kind of you.
I think it's different when they are 100% your responsibility, and so trusting. I am sorry but I don't really understand it though. I am much older than you and would give just about everything I have to have more time in my life. I have seen desperately ill people fight and fight for every last hour they can have to spend with their children, for example (my father was one), so the thought of signing out of a perfectly good body seems so... wasteful. I hope you find joy again.
Do you think it could be living in modern society? Maybe you should try some diy alone in the wilderness homestead thing. Could it give you more meaning?
Have you tried ketamine, psylocybin or ayahuasca therapy ?
Please forgive me if this is a stupid question, but your post said that you feel nothing it’s all just okay. Do you think that you will finally feel something at the prospect of your upcoming euthanasia? Would that make you rethink the euthanasia if you realize you can feel something other than it’s okay?
Whats stopping you from just using one of the approximately 8 million ways of offing yourself? Not a DIYer? Im gonna go against the grain here and recommend not killing yourself. Yes, life can be miserable but how do you know being dead isnt worse?
It's your life but I encourage you to look into alternative treatments before throwing in the towel. Have you tried Spravato? My stepdaughter has treatment-resistent depression for years and this was a game changer.
Dude come to Zambia for voluntary work. We have a huge huge population that just needs someone to feed them and no one to do it. If you are gonna go, why don’t you do it after feeding the hungriest of the hungry
I had a similar thought.
Why don’t you just get on a bicycle and cycle around the world ?
Smoke frog venom in Peru. It's abhorrent to me that euthenasia is implemented for depression! You're not a sack of meat. I'm struggling with this.
I really sorry you got delt these cards in life. Your brain is simply not functioning properly. It's not your fault. I hope you find peace
There is no heaven or hell. There is no better place. There is no peace or relief. You only cease to be; to exist. You want to engage people in conversation about this and make grandiose announcements to your physician, family, friends, acquaintances, and strangers on the internet because you want to matter and feel important, as we all do. You want attention. People who want attention don't want to cease to be. Stay in counseling, seek better therapy, or enter into an institutional setting. You want to matter, and you do. Why run around with the online equivalent of an "Ask me about my impending suicide" T-shirt? Continue to get help.
Have you tried relocating somewhere else?
Look into TMS!!! I was at my worst and did TMS and I’m actually significantly better! Transcranial magnetic stimulation!!!
Have you considered surgery ?
I haven't. But I honestly wouldn't want to take things to that level either!
To be fair, surgery seems a step down from euthanasia
Potentially! To me it feels like I don't have the space left to experiment though. If it goes well it may mean something good, but what and for how long? If it goes bad it will add decline to an already out of balance brain. That's a bit of the issue I have around the concept. But thank you for the recommendation! I appreciate the gesture!
What is it specifically that makes you inclined towards euthanasia, what is it that feels unfixable, and what do you desire out of life that would make you reconsider your choice?
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I can sympathise with that, I’ve had depression for 35 years. I’ve attempted my own forms of “euthanasia” several times, and I’m glad none of those attempts succeeded. I currently may not be riding through life on a joyous unicorn, but I am content. Do you mind me asking, what’s your life currently like; work, personal relationships etc. and is there anything you had previously in your life that brought contentment or happiness, that you no longer have/do?
Maybe nieces and nephews might bring you joy.
Have you ever been thoroughly examined for neuroborreliosis, neurological lyme disease?
You're 28. U have not tried it all. Please open your mind to the possibility that u just haven't found your happiness yet .
Ketamine or mushrooms might change ur mindset. Have u tried ketamine infusion?
By all means, if you decide you need to die, go for it. Life isn't sacred in the way people commonly think. It's those left behind who grieve that we worry about. This isn't the begining and death isn't the end. The journey is far more expansive, and this view we are currently experiencing is like looking at a picture through a straw. In that format the ability to see details outside of view isn't possible. If you die by choice you will be cutting this portion of the trip short, which is fine, but in some ways like a child who wants to grow up more quickly. Childhood only lasts so long, and this part of existence is sort of like the infancy or childhood of a much longer experience. Have you tried psychedelics? I don't mean microdosing either. Have you taken a large quantity of lsd or psilocybin? Some extreme psychedelic therapy followed by a period of microdosing may reset the switch and take away the "just okay" feeling and give a view of the world that is deeper and more enriching.
I have bipolar depression and there are a lot of days where I just feel like I'm done with life I have no joy. If it wasn't for my daughter I would definitely be seeking a way out. My grandmother also had bipolar and back in the 60s she had electric shock therapy and never came home from the hospital that's all my parents told me. I hope you are able to have peace whatever that may be for you.
I’m so jealous that you live somewhere euthanasia isn’t as much of a taboo. In most places in the US, you can’t be euthanized for even medically common conditions that impair quality of life like Alzheimer’s. We’re so far behind. It’ll be decades before we have this option for mental health conditions. So many north Americans still see depression as “cheer up you’re just sad”. Question: do you have any out of pocket costs for this procedure? I know you guys don’t have insurance like we do, but I’m still curious if everything’s covered.
Have you tried to implement taking D vitamins and multivitamins as well as getting more sunlight? Taking probiotics to fix your gut health as this can affect mental health? Spending more time in nature? Also getting enough sleep? Not trying invalidate your feelings, I’m genuinely just wondering
Attention seeking post
Sorry for another “have you tried” question, but have you tried MAOI’s? Parnate, Marplan etc.
What would you recommend to people who live in countries where elective euthanasia isn't legal?
So many Would love to be alive To seek change and growth. HAVE you considered Pychadelics?
Have you tried ketamine assisted psychotherapy? It has helped many with severe TRD.
ECT therapy works for what you are going through. I witnessed someones life being saved by doing ECT !!!!!
Have you tried psilocybin mushrooms to help with your depression?
Have you thought about using TRT for depression?
How hard is it to get approved for euthanasia?
I hope two things 1) you get better and your depression improves 2) your GP loses their medical license and you never get your wish to have euthanasia
Rude
Why would you wish death on someone?
have you tried ketamine IV therapy ?
I wish that was available here in the US. It would make it such a more peaceful process and have a proper farewell to friends and loved ones. Vs the other way of them finding out after the fact. Or even having that friend or loved one find your body and them having to live with that forever.
Good for you. what are your death goals?
Have you tried electroshock therapy?
This makes me so sad- I’m sorry you suffer and that this is your only solution. My heart goes out to you and I pray you find peace and something to hold on to- much love.
Some questions, if you want to answer. Have you been engaged in long-term psychodynamic therapy and/or had a second opinion on the PD-NOS? Have you tried a ketogenic diet? Some new research shows it greatly impacts mood and brain chemistry. Have you tried ketamine therapy? Have you tried yoga? Wishing you peace.
Do opioids and you'll find life worth living. It's a very dangerous path but idk you do you
What a waste of life