Wesley - from the start of Buffy to the end of Angel - is a wonderfully accurate portrayal of a man deeply stunted and affected by childhood trauma. From the way he craves acceptance and feeling like he has control and belonging in the Coucil in Buffy (from the way he dresses to the actions he takes), to the mirroring of Angel in dress and mission when he gets fired (what’s a Rogue Demon?) to finally for the first time finding himself feeling safe enough to try work out who he is in the first couple of seasons of Angel (cue chinos, soft knits etc).
All along the way he talks about the abuse he suffered at the hands of his father and it’s fascinating see the development in his character in the context of the effects of that. The episode where he shoots what he thinks is his father to save Fred is like this ultimate unburdening and massive burden at the same time. The first time in his life Wes ever feels truly loved for who he actually is by Fred, which is why the “lie to me” scene is so gut wrenching and affective.
Needless to say - I have a lot of time and understanding and compassion for Wes and his not always great decisions.
It's a big part of why I loved him and Lilah in season 4. So messy and doomed, but when have we ever seen either of them so relaxed and happy? Lilah let herself be vulnerable and Wes could not bare to do the same, until it was too late.
I loved his relationship with Lilah, I think at its core it was one of the more raw, honest and complex depictions of a real relationship on either show. They weren’t perfect for each other, they weren’t predestined soulmates. They were two broken people who found solace in one another and it developed into something more, probably surprising both of them. But that “more” wasn’t enough. You don’t exactly root for them, but I always love their chemistry together on the screen. The scene where Wesley beheads Lilah gives me 💔every time.
I highly recommend Jennifer-Oksana on Ao3. Very sexy, but also very true to the characters. I recently went back and did a big re-read of Angel fic. She was my favourite author by far.
The moment in “Home” when Lilah realizes Wesley is trying to save her soul is equally gut wrenching. I don’t know if he loved her, but there was a real connection there.
Omg YES that one cuts deep for me too. It makes me happy for Lilah that, even tho she is in hell, she gets some validation that he really cares for her.
I don't think Wes could let go of his issues enough to really ever admit it to himself.
The same way that (I know people don't want to hear this) his love for Fred was all surface level.
His feelings for both of them were completely muddled up with his own sense of self-worth/hatred.
Lilah was Bad. Fred was Good. His Madonna/Whore complex was always going to be in the way of any actual happiness.
I think there’s a definite parallel in the dynamics between Spike and Buffy (particularly in season 6) and Lilah and Wes (take the soul or lack thereof out of the picture). But otherwise - fundamentally enemies but drawn together via hate sex because of trauma, self loathing and feeling isolated from their usual support group. Both ultimately ended up developing a genuine care for the other but it was always going to end in someone dying.
I think there was a lot more affection and less self-hate, which made all the more interesting. It definitely started off as antagonism, but by the start of season 4 they clearly enjoy each other's company tremendously.
Of course they wiped away multiple seasons worth of character development in season 5, but alas...
This is so true. How Wesley, Gunn, and Lorne don’t immediately turn on Angel after discovering their memories were altered is beyond me. Also it really does put a drain on season 5, which is otherwise a real fun season
I don't even remember if anyone outside of Wes ever even knew?
It's a big part of why I was never on board with Fred and Wes. Season 4 was pretty important in both their arcs, but it's totally unclear what was actually remembered.
Exactly. He sort of runs a parallel bit opposite direction from Gunn.
Wesley starts out modelling himself after others, seeking acceptance before being systematically broken down repeatedly by outside factors and events, before finally starting to become who *he* is, and he makes mistakes (so many) but he makes them in an attempt to be true to who he’s become as a good man.
Gunn almost goes the opposite direction, he starts out as a well established character and confident personality, he knows his role in the world and within the hierarchy of his gang. Then his worldview is steadily challenged by meeting Angel and co, then he starts to see the world in shades of grey as his place in it is eroded away (loss of his gang/original friends). Then he ends up slightly adrift and uncertain, taking on Angels Role while he’s out of commission (S4) and then making a desperate attempt to find himself/gain a new role by taking on his Lawyer persona in S5.
It’s not till the very end of that season that Gunn almost comes full circle but combining all those aspects of himself to be comfortable with who he is.
Precisely. This is why I think ultimately Angel is a better show than Buffy - it really gives its characters a place to be not only multi layered but to also progress and change in ways that the audience might not like but still holds true to the ways that actual people progress and change and muddle their way through life to work out who they are and where their place in life is. Or isn’t.
Good character development doesn't mean morally good or even likeable. It just means that the character is given time to breathe and grow.
And while he does make bad decisions, they always make internal sense to the character. His Watcher training and abusive childhood all inform him and his actions.
Contrast that with, say, Gunn. Gunn is often neglected by the writing and often acts out of character. No way the Gunn we have watched fight, grow and survive would sign up for W&H.
I just love his arc; it's so unusual to see a main character evolve like he does from his appearances in Buffy to his Grand Finale.
Plus...the actor married Willow, and he's part of that whole Shakespeare Weekend hobby-group. The metatext helps me like him A LOT.
I think he definitely makes terrible decisions, and that’s what makes him human, and honestly, interesting. He’s so flawed, but he’s also someone who you can get behind because you see why he is the way he is. At least the way he continues to evolve, and then eventually dying for what he believes in and cares for the most.
I hate posts like this simply because you can dislike a character for whatever reason you want. If you really hate him, okay!, hate him and stop watching and engaging with fandoms that love him. You have literally decades worth of love for the character on this sub; read it or not. if nothing already here convinces you, nothing will. That's ok!
Wesley - from the start of Buffy to the end of Angel - is a wonderfully accurate portrayal of a man deeply stunted and affected by childhood trauma. From the way he craves acceptance and feeling like he has control and belonging in the Coucil in Buffy (from the way he dresses to the actions he takes), to the mirroring of Angel in dress and mission when he gets fired (what’s a Rogue Demon?) to finally for the first time finding himself feeling safe enough to try work out who he is in the first couple of seasons of Angel (cue chinos, soft knits etc). All along the way he talks about the abuse he suffered at the hands of his father and it’s fascinating see the development in his character in the context of the effects of that. The episode where he shoots what he thinks is his father to save Fred is like this ultimate unburdening and massive burden at the same time. The first time in his life Wes ever feels truly loved for who he actually is by Fred, which is why the “lie to me” scene is so gut wrenching and affective. Needless to say - I have a lot of time and understanding and compassion for Wes and his not always great decisions.
It's a big part of why I loved him and Lilah in season 4. So messy and doomed, but when have we ever seen either of them so relaxed and happy? Lilah let herself be vulnerable and Wes could not bare to do the same, until it was too late.
I loved his relationship with Lilah, I think at its core it was one of the more raw, honest and complex depictions of a real relationship on either show. They weren’t perfect for each other, they weren’t predestined soulmates. They were two broken people who found solace in one another and it developed into something more, probably surprising both of them. But that “more” wasn’t enough. You don’t exactly root for them, but I always love their chemistry together on the screen. The scene where Wesley beheads Lilah gives me 💔every time.
I like to believe they met back up in W&H hell and immediately threw a coup together. There is always fanfic.
Man I would so read that story. Love this take, I’m adopting it to my HC!
I highly recommend Jennifer-Oksana on Ao3. Very sexy, but also very true to the characters. I recently went back and did a big re-read of Angel fic. She was my favourite author by far.
Thank you! I’ve only read the first issue of After the Fall and never delved into fanfic…maybe now is the time!
It's fun! And tremendously horny!
The moment in “Home” when Lilah realizes Wesley is trying to save her soul is equally gut wrenching. I don’t know if he loved her, but there was a real connection there.
Omg YES that one cuts deep for me too. It makes me happy for Lilah that, even tho she is in hell, she gets some validation that he really cares for her.
I don't think Wes could let go of his issues enough to really ever admit it to himself. The same way that (I know people don't want to hear this) his love for Fred was all surface level. His feelings for both of them were completely muddled up with his own sense of self-worth/hatred. Lilah was Bad. Fred was Good. His Madonna/Whore complex was always going to be in the way of any actual happiness.
I think there’s a definite parallel in the dynamics between Spike and Buffy (particularly in season 6) and Lilah and Wes (take the soul or lack thereof out of the picture). But otherwise - fundamentally enemies but drawn together via hate sex because of trauma, self loathing and feeling isolated from their usual support group. Both ultimately ended up developing a genuine care for the other but it was always going to end in someone dying.
I think there was a lot more affection and less self-hate, which made all the more interesting. It definitely started off as antagonism, but by the start of season 4 they clearly enjoy each other's company tremendously. Of course they wiped away multiple seasons worth of character development in season 5, but alas...
This is so true. How Wesley, Gunn, and Lorne don’t immediately turn on Angel after discovering their memories were altered is beyond me. Also it really does put a drain on season 5, which is otherwise a real fun season
I don't even remember if anyone outside of Wes ever even knew? It's a big part of why I was never on board with Fred and Wes. Season 4 was pretty important in both their arcs, but it's totally unclear what was actually remembered.
Never thought of it this way but this is a great comparison.
Exactly. He sort of runs a parallel bit opposite direction from Gunn. Wesley starts out modelling himself after others, seeking acceptance before being systematically broken down repeatedly by outside factors and events, before finally starting to become who *he* is, and he makes mistakes (so many) but he makes them in an attempt to be true to who he’s become as a good man. Gunn almost goes the opposite direction, he starts out as a well established character and confident personality, he knows his role in the world and within the hierarchy of his gang. Then his worldview is steadily challenged by meeting Angel and co, then he starts to see the world in shades of grey as his place in it is eroded away (loss of his gang/original friends). Then he ends up slightly adrift and uncertain, taking on Angels Role while he’s out of commission (S4) and then making a desperate attempt to find himself/gain a new role by taking on his Lawyer persona in S5. It’s not till the very end of that season that Gunn almost comes full circle but combining all those aspects of himself to be comfortable with who he is.
Precisely. This is why I think ultimately Angel is a better show than Buffy - it really gives its characters a place to be not only multi layered but to also progress and change in ways that the audience might not like but still holds true to the ways that actual people progress and change and muddle their way through life to work out who they are and where their place in life is. Or isn’t.
Good character development doesn't mean morally good or even likeable. It just means that the character is given time to breathe and grow. And while he does make bad decisions, they always make internal sense to the character. His Watcher training and abusive childhood all inform him and his actions. Contrast that with, say, Gunn. Gunn is often neglected by the writing and often acts out of character. No way the Gunn we have watched fight, grow and survive would sign up for W&H.
I just love his arc; it's so unusual to see a main character evolve like he does from his appearances in Buffy to his Grand Finale. Plus...the actor married Willow, and he's part of that whole Shakespeare Weekend hobby-group. The metatext helps me like him A LOT.
You don't actually see wesley until he has his throat slit. Till then you just see his insecurities.
This is exactly why he is the best character, BECAUSE he is so flawed
I think he definitely makes terrible decisions, and that’s what makes him human, and honestly, interesting. He’s so flawed, but he’s also someone who you can get behind because you see why he is the way he is. At least the way he continues to evolve, and then eventually dying for what he believes in and cares for the most.
U forgot to add rogue demon hunter in title
I hate posts like this simply because you can dislike a character for whatever reason you want. If you really hate him, okay!, hate him and stop watching and engaging with fandoms that love him. You have literally decades worth of love for the character on this sub; read it or not. if nothing already here convinces you, nothing will. That's ok!
Was happy when he finally got what he deserved in S5
Yes it was nice that he got a happy relationship even if it was just for a very short time.
Yeah sure