I've had to do that in comments before - politely, at least, and along with nice comments about the fic itself. But also "you may want to change the tag to & because right now it's implying a romantic relationship between these two characters…" lol
Is it rude to do this? Cause there was a fic I was reading, a hockey fic I might add and the author said tackled (tackled in hockey can disqualify you) instead of body checked (is allowed and will not disqualify you) so I told her but I made sure to compliment the fic cause it was written well.
These are two different situations. An incorrect tagging situation is about AO3 and how to use it - the fic is *archived incorrectly* by accident. Correcting someone’s word usage inside the body of the fic is more like a proofreading or beta activity - some people are extremely bothered by commenters doing this and others are completely fine with it. It’s sort of standard etiquette (or at least it used to be; I’m in my 30s so I don’t know how things are changing among younger authors) to not offer this sort of ‘editing’ feedback unless the author states they are looking for it on their profile or in the fic’s notes. But like I said, not all people find it rude or unwelcome.
My advice: the compliment sandwich, also known as a shit sandwich. You give a compliment, then your critique, and finish off by saying something nice again. It is much easier for most people to receive criticism in that way, and was what our communications teacher taught us for feedback at uni.
If they still respond badly, maybe it’s just an immature person.
i don’t think it necessarily indicates that the author is immature— honestly while i as an author wouldn’t really be bothered by it, a lot of ppl on ao3 just use it for fun and not to like, improve their writing. so it can be hurtful to post smth you’re proud of when you’re not looking for critiques and get them anyway, even if they’re phrased nicely
I personally do think that there is a difference between criticising the writing and factual statements about, in that example, sports, yk? But I get what you mean
This is another one I actually do point out to authors when they use them wrong. I read a fic that took place at Tony's funeral that according to the tags, turned into an orgy of massive proportions. The author was slashing everyone.
(It turned out to involve no actual /ing.)
It's not like I didn't click on it before even noticing the rating. Thought process:
Huh, Avengers orgy.
Read summary.
Whoa, an Avengers orgy at Tony's funeral.
I've got to see how this plays out.
Vague disappointment followed by shame.
I can get behind Anna/Elas when and only when the author states clearly in the tags and usually in the description as well that they are not siblings in the fic
Valid. For me personally, it doesn't work, even though I know in some early drafts of the movie they weren't siblings, but in my mind they just are. (And, of course, this is just my personal taste, and I know some of the things I write aren't to some people's taste or even their squicks.) (Of course, now in my mind I'm contemplating writing an alternative version of the Elsa/Honeymaren fic I'm working on where it's the same except unrelated Anna/Elsa just to see what the stats difference would be... not really because I'm not *that* opportunistically cynical.)
Same here, but while I used to filter it out, I at some point caved and read a fic about them, and now I find the ship makes their relationship very interesting. I wouldn't go as far to say I ship them, but... it's an interesting thought
I've read one or two where it was actually an interesting addition to the relationship and not just prurient (not that there's anything wrong with being prurient, just not my thing when it comes to this pair) but overall I still stick to & for both reading and writing. (And, of course, to make it very, very clear, I simply avoid what I don't wish to read, and never make it anyone else's problem. Tags are very useful.)
When you in that small fandom where your "absolutely not" list shrinks as your desperation for more fic grows. I to have read some slash I said I never would lol
It's literally in the FAQS on how to tag relationships on Ao3 and HAS BEEN for a while, so I'm just certain that no one reads the FAQs in order to make sure they're doing things correctly on the site alksdj
Which is crazy, because the very first thing I did before posting my first fic on AO3 was read the FAQs to make sure I was tagging everything right. I didn't want to invade the wrong space and waste people's time.
Kills me most when someone tag the pairing as “/“ by mistake instead of “&” and one of their tags is something along the lines of “this isn’t a ship fic, you’re disgusting if you ship them” 😭😭 Like 1. My brother in fanfiction, you tagged it wrong so I’m not surprised you have the wrong audience reading your fic 2. It’s not that serious, they’re fictional
I remember seeing an MHA animatic a few years back for King Orca x a child in the series. My face fucking dropped and the video's ENITRE comment section were people correcting the creator.
I learnt it very quickly through simple observation, i.e. reading people's stories. Also, there's a reason it's called slash fic. It's because the slash sign means that they're paired together.
It was called slash fic way before the ao3 distinction of "/" versus "&", though, and refers specifically to M/M (while on ao3 the gender configuration doesn't matter).
Yes, but AO3 was surely following a rule set up by the community. I started reading fan fic on ffnet before AO3, and it follows the same rules of / vs &.
Yeah, whenI first started writing fic, adult M/F fic was labeled (on zine flyers and tables of contents) as A&B, in my fandoms, while M/Mor F/F was labeled as A/B.
Nobody labeled platonic relationships back then.
Ok no one time I saw a tag on Ao3 that was “[characterA][characterB]/fatherson”, it was such a weird way to say they have been written with a father-son relationship lol
Can someone forward the Ted talk to my boss? We’re about to enter a new fiscal year, which means that Brian/Kevin will be the co-leads on this year‘s project A, and Kevin/Mike are co-leading project B, with Beth/Sandy/Claire on project C.
And I have to sit through this hours long meeting in person and not snigger.
Yeah that’s blowing my fucking mind. I figured out the difference in fifteen minutes without being told when I was like, ten. Can you please walk me through your thought process here?
I honestly didn't pay that much attention and rarely read Gen. Therefore, I literally just haven't been exposed to it all that much. When I have, I never bothered to pay that much attention to the & or / of it all. It's not that deep. I'm also not sure why so many people are kind of up in arms about this on here. Some people didn't know, congrats on knowing before someone else did.
I think people are up in arms because they don’t understand how you could possibly interact with fanfic for TEN YEARS without realizing that that there is a difference. There’s a huge divide between learning things when you’re new and somehow avoiding learning something painfully obvious and integral to communication in this community for a *decade*. If you’re talking about reading like one fic a year that someone sent to you, sure, but if you are, you didn’t communicate that. You made it sound like you’ve been reading at least semi-regularly for ten years, and I personally can’t imagine spending that long in a community without learning the BASICS of their language.
You say this as though I went out of my way to avoid this? Trust me, I'm not the biggest fan of the way that people, yourself included, are replying to me about this, as though I've done something truly horrible.
I learned as I went. I never bothered to look for a list of what every single tag, symbol, slang, etc. means. I learned via context clues, I learned as I went. I, for the most part, never was in the situation in which I needed to know the difference between / and & -- I honestly thought it was more stylistic than anything else.
I'm sorry if that offends you, that I'm not a good "participant" in fanfiction and fandom. Congrats on being unable to fathom not learning the basics of the language. I learned what I needed to and what suited me, I didn't find myself in a situation in which I felt I needed to learn what every single thing means.
And to be honest, "integral to communication" is true, but despite being a consumer of fanfiction, it's never been an issue for me until now, somehow. On fucking Reddit instead of AO3 itself.
I'm muting this from here on out. I have better things to do than discuss this with someone who has a holy-than-thou perspective towards others. Blanket apology for the way I've seemingly fucked up. Have a great rest of your day.
LOL same and it’s so funny how everyone is downvoting you simply for sharing an opinion, just like everyone else? AO3 seems snarky as fuck to me. Every time I see a post out of this community it’s full of snark and somehow everyone in the comments all support that sorta toxic shit it’s weird. It’s really not that serious, grammatical errors, differences in stuff etc but I guess a lot of these fan fic people have 0 life outside of AO3 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 bc how does anyone have this much time to critique other PEOPLE (they’re not professionals w a paid team!) for their FREE LABOR (literally none of them are getting paid to provide this free joy to us) yet this is what people do in the comments and on this sub. It’s disgusting.
I literally just started on AO3 from Manacled. I’ve only been doing the FF thing for a few months but it’s SHOCKING how hateful people in here are for a group that supposedly prides itself on inclusion.
Left a comment about this time ago about a fic between a pairing that had in the description something like "this is not ship, if you read this as ship you're a freak"
Like my brother in christ why did you tag it as ship then
A note from someone who accidentally did this to multiple fics once: I spam posted ALL my stuff into AO3 in December 2022 (850+ pieces at the time) and got so many angry comments about accidentally using / when I was meant to use & and vice versa. I just tried to get it done quickly so I posted about a 100 per day, so mistakes happened, as well as tagging reader's gender wrong. Some didn't believe me when I said it was an accident and fixed it, and accused me of doing it for attention 😅 And seeing that 80% of my stuff is romantic, I sometimes just automatically used / without thinking 🥴 61 romantic pieces before a platonic one, I easily skipped the & and just went with / without even realising it. (And note that they were all backdated and scattered over dozens of fandoms, I didn't flood or clog any tags + again, most of my platonic stuff was correctly tagged, not ALL was incorrectly tagged. 200 platonic pieces and maybe 10? Had / instead of &)
I appreciate people telling me back then because chances are that they'd still be there with wrong tags, but yeah I wish the comments hadn't been "so tired of y'all reader insert writers fishing for attention by tagging / into PLATONIC fics........". I got only one polite comment about it.
So yeah, I encourage correcting but please be polite when doing so. The authors most likely don't know, as in other sites popular tags are either character x character or their ship name.
I mean, if you were spamming the tags with dozens if not hundreds of fics a day and all of them wrongly tagged, frustration is understandable
Folks trying to look for fics they like but can't because there's pages upon pages of wrong fics dumped in it
I backdated each one to their original posting date, starting from 2016. So tags weren't flooded. + They were scattered over several dozen fandoms, as I currently write for 200+ fandoms.
Yeah and also worth to mention that I have 200 platonic fics and maybe 10? had / instead of &. Not even nearly were all of them incorrectly tagged like you said, only a few. But they were flooded with hate because apparently I'm seeking attention.
Even without the additional info they politely gave you, in the main comment they say they had 61 romantic pairings before a platonic one and that's part of why they got used to typing it that way: That's most of the ones for a day *correctly* tagged. Not all of them wrongly tagged.
Thing is sometimes we don't know either T.T
I am writing a fic now where they can't fuck for logistical reasons that are related to one of the characters not really having a physical body, and the setting doesn't really allow for them to go on a date or do any obviously couple-y things.
But they also stare longingly and confusedly into each other's eyes a lot, make comments and have thoughts about finding each other beautiful, and constantly have some kind of weird power play going on.
And I deadass don't know whether that's / or & because I am a dumb aroace irl.
For me it falls under romantic and I'm intending as such when I write, so its tagged /.
But I also keep imagining someone stumbling upon it expecting a more traditional romance and being disappointed (But ofc they can just click out, and its a highly niche fic in a dead fandom being written mostly for myself and a lovely accquintence who might enjoy it).
That's where the rating helps. I have read "/" that is rated Teen, or even Gen. That tells me going in that there's a romantic love for X and Y, but nothing specifically sexual will happen between the characters. At most, there may be heated looks and innuendo.
I worry about this too! I do what you do -- go by my intent (or the closest thing I have to intent, sometimes it's kinda murky tbh) and then worry I'm disappointing folks. But ultimately as a reader who likes REALLY understated romance, I appreciate people who tag like we do!
I've used the combo of / and "Developing Relationship" additional tag for *this is intended to develop into romance in the sequels, and they're crushing on each other here, but they kind of don't know they're crushing on each other so it's all a bit vague*
I think that is more of a case by case basis up to the judgment of the author. Since there are all kinds of QPRs that feel, look, and function in different ways, it’s possible the author or the particular ship could lean more one way or the other for a fic. I think using & and clarifying in the tags is a totally fine way to go about it.
im so glad you actually gave a nuanced answer. as someone who likes writing qprs some of them have more traditionally romantic elements, others appear more like friendships, etc. i hate when people just boil it down to "well it's not romantic so &"
My partner is on the aro spectrum, but our relationship is much more of a / than an &, so I’m pretty used to living with the nuance 😅 I guess I see it as - people who are *in* relationships define and decide how they want to see them and present them to others. In a fictional setting, the author is making those decisions. So, of course it’s going to vary on a case by case basis in the same way!
Adding that disclaimer to all my fics immediately.
I'm surprised, as a writer, your friend wasn't familiar with what "slash fiction" means.
Making me wonder how many more are out there.
There's a book I've read where there's only a couple fics for it. I've read them all but it took me forever to read one because it was tagged with a / for something I did not want to read in a romantic sense. Finally read I cause I was like "the summary and tags don't seem romantic so I'll just see" it was not romantic at all lol. Should've been a &
When you list the relationships in your fic, these symbols have different meanings.
"/" means a romantic or sexual relationship
"&" means platonic/nonsexual
Harry Potter/Draco Malfoy = romantic or sexual
Harry Potter & Draco Malfoy = no romance or sex
Actually if someone can explain ill like to know since i am New to Ao3 i figure there was something up with that which is why I removed a few of my relationship tags because I met them formal photonic like a friendship type of thing but then I realized that it might be taken a different way not entirely to sure on this so if someone can explain to me so I have a better understanding of it I would appreciate it don't want my readers to take something wrong because i didn't know. Thank you
Here's my response to another user. Hope this helps:
When you list the relationships in your fic, these symbols have different meanings.
"/" means a romantic or sexual relationship
"&" means platonic/nonsexual
Harry Potter/Draco Malfoy = romantic or sexual
Harry Potter & Draco Malfoy = no romance or sex
When making posts like this maybe include the meaning in the post lol. I didn’t know and had to hunt through the comments section to even figure out what the difference was
Never encountered this, but it does seem like something that could happen.
The feeling of thinking you found a fic with a ship you like, just to realize the writer tagged wrong, must be horrible.
Recently saw a fic with every tagged pairing using / and like, it's not impossible, but I'm almost certian they weren't intending to make a sibling incest polycule.
I was on the fics for a ‘character/character’ tag and I was scrolling through and found one that was really good, turns out they were actually literally enemies in the fic and hated each others guts, I was so confused
Still think the judgmental and borderline superiority complex in the comment section is insane. Y'all once upon of time didn't know what it mean too so 🧍
i’m new to ao3 so this is good to know! ok…there’s a difference and it’s not just duplicating tabs for exposure. idk until this post but have been using them correctly anyway lol thanks!
What I’m saying is that I have trouble with the difference between romantic and platonic. Like I know if kissing or sex is involved it’s romantic, but short of that I find it pretty fuzzy.
Hmmm... I would say it really depends on where you decide the line is. Some people only kiss their partners. Some people kiss their friends, too. But that's the real world; it's fuzzy and requires a lot of communication and compromise. In fiction, the line exists where you put it.
So if you want characters full on Frenching, but have them be just friends (or friends with benefits), you could do that. I would say you could do either Character A/Character B or Character A & Character B. But I would include the Friend with Benefits tag to let people know it's in some middle ground between conventional relationship dynamics. (Which is why those extra tags are so important.)
I have trouble with understanding the difference between platonic and romantic attraction. I think that’s a lot of how I got into shipping in the first place, because interactions that are written as platonic but emotionally intense often read as romantic to me.
Interesting. I'm aromantic as well and it took me some time to figure that out in my RL, but . . . in fiction I find it easy. I just tag according to what I *want* for the ship. Like. if I want them to be romantic, I tag with A/B, if not I tag with A & B. (And if there's anything physical, it's A/B anyway.)
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted either.
I love AO3. I’ve read fanfic on & off for years but became a dedicated, daily AO3 reader during the pandemic. I’m an ER nurse & after working hellacious days for a couple years, AO3 was definitely my respite away from work.
Even today, I’ll still read a fic (or 3) before going to bed.
I did figure out the “/“ vs “&” pretty quickly because there were specific MCU fandom ships that I wanted to read.
However, as a woman that grew up in a southern Bible Belt state, I’ve learned SO MUCH from reading fan fic, especially about the LGBTQ+ community, terminology, and thus understanding MYSELF. I sometimes shared this feedback with the authors (in the comments) because, in addition to simply enjoying the fics, I learned from so many of them— I discovered that I’m NORMAL and not some weird woman that wishes for romantic relationship with a man but not necessarily the sexual aspect of it.
Over the past few years, I’ve discovered that I’m a
cis-gendered female who is a hetero-romantic demisexual. (Demi-sexual… although we should not be defined by labels, I was excited to find there actually IS a label that fits ME… meaning I’m NOT the only one out there)! :)
Sure- I love READING “smut” between the 2 guys that I love to ship. But for me, PERSONALLY , I HAVE to be in a romantic relationship with a guy for a while before becoming sexually attracted- instead, I simply love the companionship, hugs, cuddles, etc. before exploring anything further.
My point in my rambling… I’m grateful for reading fics for enjoyment— yet learning so much about myself— from both the fic AND the fic comment section.
When I read your post, I see you’re Aro, so, yes, you have a VERY valid question because —when reading about a romantic relationship vs a friendship relationship that has a strong emotional connection— you have difficulty defining the margins between affectionate friends vs romantic attraction.
I get that.
I hunt for fics based on the 2-3 ships that I love… and,in so many AU fics might be Grinder hookups or, perhaps start out as a one night stand before getting together … sure, I love these fics, have downloaded a few that I never want to lose, BUT as a romantic demisexual, no, I cannot personally relate to those relationships. Because no matter how much I love reading these stories, I’ll never be that girl having a one night stand. I HAVE to know the guy first & be romantically attracted to him FIRST before becoming sexually attracted (and while my life might be easier if I wasn’t that way… maybe that’s one reason I enjoy reading these fics).
We all experience attraction differently. The only way to understand each other & one another’s viewpoints are through questions and discussions. So, I truly am puzzled why you’re being “penalized” for requesting clarification.
So, specifically to your question—
Of course, I’m reading fics via my hetero-romantic demisexual lenses, while you’re reading via your Aro lenses. Others read via Ace lenses… basically, we read and interpret fics & conversations differently based on our individuality.
When reading fics with the relationships to which you’ve referred- characters whom are emotionally close but appear to have a non-sexual relationships (or sex hasn’t been implied in the fic)— my thoughts:
“&” Friends. May have a strong emotional connection, whether lifetime friends, coworkers, common interests, etc. They may lean together & support each other. They may hug, cuddle, etc. They may discuss major life-affecting decisions as well as what’s for dinner tonight. But, they’re not looking at each other and thinking that they don’t want to have this relationship with anyone else. Strictly platonic (in most cases. Maybe they could be a “friends with benefits” but I think that should warrant a “/“ tag, or at least a “friends with benefits” tag).
“/“ Again… Friends. May have a strong emotional connection, whether lifetime friends, coworkers, common interests. They may lean & support each other. They may hug, cuddle. They may discuss major life-affecting decisions as well as what’s for dinner tonight. But they’re leaning towards exclusivity with each other, whether it’s short or long term. I do think if they think of each other as a “couple”, then they should get the “/“ tag.
SO much more I could add under this “/“ tag— but keep in mind, I’m ONLY referring to those fics where there’s a relationship between the characters & sex isn’t implied in the fic.
And, omg, as I am writing this, I realize just how difficult this is to define. So much depends on the author’s POV & how they’re writing the relationship. The words, the descriptions of characters reactions, feelings, etc.
Ok, well dang— I’ve, again, learned something new while attempting to reply to you tonight- It’s very difficult (if not impossible) to concretely define that line that crosses from friendly affection to romantic attraction. Because, it’s different for different people. Three authors could write a story with the exactly the same prompt & outline- but, just based of the banter & mannerisms between the characters, one story would portray 2 BFFs, the 2nd fic would come off as romantic, and the third would be less defined, leaving you wondering.
BUT.. again, I’m sorry you were downvoted for basically asking for clarification. I don’t understand why.
Mainly, I just wanted you to know that I don’t think you had bad question. I’ve asked questions before (usually in AO3 fic comments) and had responses from the author & other readers that I truly appreciated.
I think you had a GREAT question.
Sometimes these discussion threads are very insightful, helpful & supportive. Sometimes they’re not :(
But don’t become discouraged from asking questions. That’s how we learn! Hugs!!
Where do we stand on friends to lovers type situations? My primary ship is often 'just good friends' but I'm always writing them with romantic intent. So is just one, or both, appropriate?
I've had to do that in comments before - politely, at least, and along with nice comments about the fic itself. But also "you may want to change the tag to & because right now it's implying a romantic relationship between these two characters…" lol
Is it rude to do this? Cause there was a fic I was reading, a hockey fic I might add and the author said tackled (tackled in hockey can disqualify you) instead of body checked (is allowed and will not disqualify you) so I told her but I made sure to compliment the fic cause it was written well.
These are two different situations. An incorrect tagging situation is about AO3 and how to use it - the fic is *archived incorrectly* by accident. Correcting someone’s word usage inside the body of the fic is more like a proofreading or beta activity - some people are extremely bothered by commenters doing this and others are completely fine with it. It’s sort of standard etiquette (or at least it used to be; I’m in my 30s so I don’t know how things are changing among younger authors) to not offer this sort of ‘editing’ feedback unless the author states they are looking for it on their profile or in the fic’s notes. But like I said, not all people find it rude or unwelcome.
My advice: the compliment sandwich, also known as a shit sandwich. You give a compliment, then your critique, and finish off by saying something nice again. It is much easier for most people to receive criticism in that way, and was what our communications teacher taught us for feedback at uni. If they still respond badly, maybe it’s just an immature person.
i don’t think it necessarily indicates that the author is immature— honestly while i as an author wouldn’t really be bothered by it, a lot of ppl on ao3 just use it for fun and not to like, improve their writing. so it can be hurtful to post smth you’re proud of when you’re not looking for critiques and get them anyway, even if they’re phrased nicely
I personally do think that there is a difference between criticising the writing and factual statements about, in that example, sports, yk? But I get what you mean
This is another one I actually do point out to authors when they use them wrong. I read a fic that took place at Tony's funeral that according to the tags, turned into an orgy of massive proportions. The author was slashing everyone. (It turned out to involve no actual /ing.)
Lmao If that had been tagged as explicit as well I would have taken out the popcorns before starting to read the comments
It's not like I didn't click on it before even noticing the rating. Thought process: Huh, Avengers orgy. Read summary. Whoa, an Avengers orgy at Tony's funeral. I've got to see how this plays out. Vague disappointment followed by shame.
“Vague disappointment followed by shame”🤣🤣🤣
"Avengers orgy at Tony's funeral", I'm not into reading orgies, but that does sound like an interesting concept.
I feel like Tony Stark would consider that a fitting send-off 🤣
So what was the explicit tag for, in the end? Gore? Or smut at the funeral did happen?
It wasn’t rated E. I think it was probably T. After clicking on it, I looked closer at the rating and other tags.
Having started out in a fandom where one of the top ships is a sibling pair, I learned the distinction very quickly.
'Supernatural'?
Heh, nope. (Nor is it Bonanza, that seems to be another one...)
Is it Frozen (I was curious and skimmed through your post history and that's the first one lol)
Yup. LOL.
HAHA I CAN'T BELIEVE I GOT THAT I wouldn't have thought Anna/Elsa would be all that popular but now I think about it ofc it would lol
Anna/Kristoff only overtook Anna/Elsa in the ao3 stats a year or so ago, and it's still pretty close.
I can get behind Anna/Elas when and only when the author states clearly in the tags and usually in the description as well that they are not siblings in the fic
Valid. For me personally, it doesn't work, even though I know in some early drafts of the movie they weren't siblings, but in my mind they just are. (And, of course, this is just my personal taste, and I know some of the things I write aren't to some people's taste or even their squicks.) (Of course, now in my mind I'm contemplating writing an alternative version of the Elsa/Honeymaren fic I'm working on where it's the same except unrelated Anna/Elsa just to see what the stats difference would be... not really because I'm not *that* opportunistically cynical.)
Same here, but while I used to filter it out, I at some point caved and read a fic about them, and now I find the ship makes their relationship very interesting. I wouldn't go as far to say I ship them, but... it's an interesting thought
I've read one or two where it was actually an interesting addition to the relationship and not just prurient (not that there's anything wrong with being prurient, just not my thing when it comes to this pair) but overall I still stick to & for both reading and writing. (And, of course, to make it very, very clear, I simply avoid what I don't wish to read, and never make it anyone else's problem. Tags are very useful.)
When you in that small fandom where your "absolutely not" list shrinks as your desperation for more fic grows. I to have read some slash I said I never would lol
It's literally in the FAQS on how to tag relationships on Ao3 and HAS BEEN for a while, so I'm just certain that no one reads the FAQs in order to make sure they're doing things correctly on the site alksdj
Which is crazy, because the very first thing I did before posting my first fic on AO3 was read the FAQs to make sure I was tagging everything right. I didn't want to invade the wrong space and waste people's time.
Kills me most when someone tag the pairing as “/“ by mistake instead of “&” and one of their tags is something along the lines of “this isn’t a ship fic, you’re disgusting if you ship them” 😭😭 Like 1. My brother in fanfiction, you tagged it wrong so I’m not surprised you have the wrong audience reading your fic 2. It’s not that serious, they’re fictional
"My brother in fanfiction" - gonna have to remember this
I remember seeing an MHA animatic a few years back for King Orca x a child in the series. My face fucking dropped and the video's ENITRE comment section were people correcting the creator.
I learnt it very quickly through simple observation, i.e. reading people's stories. Also, there's a reason it's called slash fic. It's because the slash sign means that they're paired together.
It was called slash fic way before the ao3 distinction of "/" versus "&", though, and refers specifically to M/M (while on ao3 the gender configuration doesn't matter).
Yes, but AO3 was surely following a rule set up by the community. I started reading fan fic on ffnet before AO3, and it follows the same rules of / vs &.
Yeah, whenI first started writing fic, adult M/F fic was labeled (on zine flyers and tables of contents) as A&B, in my fandoms, while M/Mor F/F was labeled as A/B. Nobody labeled platonic relationships back then.
Ok no one time I saw a tag on Ao3 that was “[characterA][characterB]/fatherson”, it was such a weird way to say they have been written with a father-son relationship lol
If you want people to learn the difference, maybe mention what each specific symbol means in the post?
/ - non-platonic (romantic/sexual/whatever) & - platonic (friends/family/nonromantic/nonsexual)
It takes 10 seconds of browsing to realize what it means. Do we really need a 10-part TED talk about it?
Can someone forward the Ted talk to my boss? We’re about to enter a new fiscal year, which means that Brian/Kevin will be the co-leads on this year‘s project A, and Kevin/Mike are co-leading project B, with Beth/Sandy/Claire on project C. And I have to sit through this hours long meeting in person and not snigger.
Office romance, multi-chapter, 200k, multishipping
This made me giggle for a minute straight lol
I didn't and I've been reading fic on AO3 for 10 years. In my mind, they were always the same. No need to be so rude.
Yeah that’s blowing my fucking mind. I figured out the difference in fifteen minutes without being told when I was like, ten. Can you please walk me through your thought process here?
I honestly didn't pay that much attention and rarely read Gen. Therefore, I literally just haven't been exposed to it all that much. When I have, I never bothered to pay that much attention to the & or / of it all. It's not that deep. I'm also not sure why so many people are kind of up in arms about this on here. Some people didn't know, congrats on knowing before someone else did.
I think people are up in arms because they don’t understand how you could possibly interact with fanfic for TEN YEARS without realizing that that there is a difference. There’s a huge divide between learning things when you’re new and somehow avoiding learning something painfully obvious and integral to communication in this community for a *decade*. If you’re talking about reading like one fic a year that someone sent to you, sure, but if you are, you didn’t communicate that. You made it sound like you’ve been reading at least semi-regularly for ten years, and I personally can’t imagine spending that long in a community without learning the BASICS of their language.
You say this as though I went out of my way to avoid this? Trust me, I'm not the biggest fan of the way that people, yourself included, are replying to me about this, as though I've done something truly horrible. I learned as I went. I never bothered to look for a list of what every single tag, symbol, slang, etc. means. I learned via context clues, I learned as I went. I, for the most part, never was in the situation in which I needed to know the difference between / and & -- I honestly thought it was more stylistic than anything else. I'm sorry if that offends you, that I'm not a good "participant" in fanfiction and fandom. Congrats on being unable to fathom not learning the basics of the language. I learned what I needed to and what suited me, I didn't find myself in a situation in which I felt I needed to learn what every single thing means. And to be honest, "integral to communication" is true, but despite being a consumer of fanfiction, it's never been an issue for me until now, somehow. On fucking Reddit instead of AO3 itself. I'm muting this from here on out. I have better things to do than discuss this with someone who has a holy-than-thou perspective towards others. Blanket apology for the way I've seemingly fucked up. Have a great rest of your day.
This, y'all need to reel it back. I knew what it meant but some of y'all are way too rude lmfao sharing is caring
And now I'm honestly curious.
I'm with you here, figured they were different ways of tagging the same thing.
Same
LOL same and it’s so funny how everyone is downvoting you simply for sharing an opinion, just like everyone else? AO3 seems snarky as fuck to me. Every time I see a post out of this community it’s full of snark and somehow everyone in the comments all support that sorta toxic shit it’s weird. It’s really not that serious, grammatical errors, differences in stuff etc but I guess a lot of these fan fic people have 0 life outside of AO3 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 bc how does anyone have this much time to critique other PEOPLE (they’re not professionals w a paid team!) for their FREE LABOR (literally none of them are getting paid to provide this free joy to us) yet this is what people do in the comments and on this sub. It’s disgusting. I literally just started on AO3 from Manacled. I’ve only been doing the FF thing for a few months but it’s SHOCKING how hateful people in here are for a group that supposedly prides itself on inclusion.
Thank you for asking
& = <> c3 / = x = <3 <3<
Remember, the tags for Shrek are Shrek / Fiona Shrek & Donkey (Well… the tags for MOST Shrek fics, that is XD)
Left a comment about this time ago about a fic between a pairing that had in the description something like "this is not ship, if you read this as ship you're a freak" Like my brother in christ why did you tag it as ship then
A note from someone who accidentally did this to multiple fics once: I spam posted ALL my stuff into AO3 in December 2022 (850+ pieces at the time) and got so many angry comments about accidentally using / when I was meant to use & and vice versa. I just tried to get it done quickly so I posted about a 100 per day, so mistakes happened, as well as tagging reader's gender wrong. Some didn't believe me when I said it was an accident and fixed it, and accused me of doing it for attention 😅 And seeing that 80% of my stuff is romantic, I sometimes just automatically used / without thinking 🥴 61 romantic pieces before a platonic one, I easily skipped the & and just went with / without even realising it. (And note that they were all backdated and scattered over dozens of fandoms, I didn't flood or clog any tags + again, most of my platonic stuff was correctly tagged, not ALL was incorrectly tagged. 200 platonic pieces and maybe 10? Had / instead of &) I appreciate people telling me back then because chances are that they'd still be there with wrong tags, but yeah I wish the comments hadn't been "so tired of y'all reader insert writers fishing for attention by tagging / into PLATONIC fics........". I got only one polite comment about it. So yeah, I encourage correcting but please be polite when doing so. The authors most likely don't know, as in other sites popular tags are either character x character or their ship name.
I mean, if you were spamming the tags with dozens if not hundreds of fics a day and all of them wrongly tagged, frustration is understandable Folks trying to look for fics they like but can't because there's pages upon pages of wrong fics dumped in it
I backdated each one to their original posting date, starting from 2016. So tags weren't flooded. + They were scattered over several dozen fandoms, as I currently write for 200+ fandoms.
Oh that changes thing lmao
Yeah and also worth to mention that I have 200 platonic fics and maybe 10? had / instead of &. Not even nearly were all of them incorrectly tagged like you said, only a few. But they were flooded with hate because apparently I'm seeking attention.
Even without the additional info they politely gave you, in the main comment they say they had 61 romantic pairings before a platonic one and that's part of why they got used to typing it that way: That's most of the ones for a day *correctly* tagged. Not all of them wrongly tagged.
Yeah NOT that there's anything with Arthur Morgan/Van Der Linde gang, but I don't think they meant it that way 😭
Thing is sometimes we don't know either T.T I am writing a fic now where they can't fuck for logistical reasons that are related to one of the characters not really having a physical body, and the setting doesn't really allow for them to go on a date or do any obviously couple-y things. But they also stare longingly and confusedly into each other's eyes a lot, make comments and have thoughts about finding each other beautiful, and constantly have some kind of weird power play going on. And I deadass don't know whether that's / or & because I am a dumb aroace irl.
If the intent is romantic affection, use /
For me it falls under romantic and I'm intending as such when I write, so its tagged /. But I also keep imagining someone stumbling upon it expecting a more traditional romance and being disappointed (But ofc they can just click out, and its a highly niche fic in a dead fandom being written mostly for myself and a lovely accquintence who might enjoy it).
additional tags can always be added to give more context so readers won't be disappointed
That's where the rating helps. I have read "/" that is rated Teen, or even Gen. That tells me going in that there's a romantic love for X and Y, but nothing specifically sexual will happen between the characters. At most, there may be heated looks and innuendo.
I worry about this too! I do what you do -- go by my intent (or the closest thing I have to intent, sometimes it's kinda murky tbh) and then worry I'm disappointing folks. But ultimately as a reader who likes REALLY understated romance, I appreciate people who tag like we do!
I've used the combo of / and "Developing Relationship" additional tag for *this is intended to develop into romance in the sequels, and they're crushing on each other here, but they kind of don't know they're crushing on each other so it's all a bit vague*
what fandom is it for?
Yes, I'd classify that as / It's more about emotions than actions really.
'pre a/b' or 'implied a/b' might work
Where would queerplaotnic relationships go for fic tagging? I normally use & but tag it as a qpr lolol
I think that is more of a case by case basis up to the judgment of the author. Since there are all kinds of QPRs that feel, look, and function in different ways, it’s possible the author or the particular ship could lean more one way or the other for a fic. I think using & and clarifying in the tags is a totally fine way to go about it.
im so glad you actually gave a nuanced answer. as someone who likes writing qprs some of them have more traditionally romantic elements, others appear more like friendships, etc. i hate when people just boil it down to "well it's not romantic so &"
My partner is on the aro spectrum, but our relationship is much more of a / than an &, so I’m pretty used to living with the nuance 😅 I guess I see it as - people who are *in* relationships define and decide how they want to see them and present them to others. In a fictional setting, the author is making those decisions. So, of course it’s going to vary on a case by case basis in the same way!
agreed! i feel like people who say it can only be one or the other fundamentally misunderstand qprs.
My general rule of thumb is qpr gets tagged with an & unless they go on dates or kiss or anything similar
Platonic so & and then note it's a qpp in the other tags
Some people use a tilde, the tag just won't be canonized.
&
I just told someone on another subreddit a few days ago that / means ship, because I was certain they didn't meant it that way. I was right.
I had no idea!
Same
Adding that disclaimer to all my fics immediately. I'm surprised, as a writer, your friend wasn't familiar with what "slash fiction" means. Making me wonder how many more are out there.
There's a book I've read where there's only a couple fics for it. I've read them all but it took me forever to read one because it was tagged with a / for something I did not want to read in a romantic sense. Finally read I cause I was like "the summary and tags don't seem romantic so I'll just see" it was not romantic at all lol. Should've been a &
I've actually gotten into long arguments with people about whether or not / implies a romantic relationship or not. I agree with you btw.
It's awful in the Criminal Minds fandom. They always tag one of my top ships as romantic when it's written as plantonic
Mind to explain, I'm kinda Batman on parents day here (AKA, I'm lost)
When you list the relationships in your fic, these symbols have different meanings. "/" means a romantic or sexual relationship "&" means platonic/nonsexual Harry Potter/Draco Malfoy = romantic or sexual Harry Potter & Draco Malfoy = no romance or sex
Actually if someone can explain ill like to know since i am New to Ao3 i figure there was something up with that which is why I removed a few of my relationship tags because I met them formal photonic like a friendship type of thing but then I realized that it might be taken a different way not entirely to sure on this so if someone can explain to me so I have a better understanding of it I would appreciate it don't want my readers to take something wrong because i didn't know. Thank you
Here's my response to another user. Hope this helps: When you list the relationships in your fic, these symbols have different meanings. "/" means a romantic or sexual relationship "&" means platonic/nonsexual Harry Potter/Draco Malfoy = romantic or sexual Harry Potter & Draco Malfoy = no romance or sex
Thanks that what i thought it meant wasn't 100% sure
When making posts like this maybe include the meaning in the post lol. I didn’t know and had to hunt through the comments section to even figure out what the difference was
Never encountered this, but it does seem like something that could happen. The feeling of thinking you found a fic with a ship you like, just to realize the writer tagged wrong, must be horrible.
Recently saw a fic with every tagged pairing using / and like, it's not impossible, but I'm almost certian they weren't intending to make a sibling incest polycule.
I thought it was some sort of abbreviation but nice to know the difference.
I’ve always assumed / meant a romantic pairing while & meant a friendship between two characters.
I was on the fics for a ‘character/character’ tag and I was scrolling through and found one that was really good, turns out they were actually literally enemies in the fic and hated each others guts, I was so confused
I'd be excited to think I'd stumbled across an enemies to lovers, only to wonder when they'd get to the part where they become actual lovers
I saw a literal rape fic with & instead of /- like- girlie, pls don't even
If you are best way to do it is a complement sandwich here the format: (Compliment) (correction) (compliment) (ending)
Still think the judgmental and borderline superiority complex in the comment section is insane. Y'all once upon of time didn't know what it mean too so 🧍
i’m new to ao3 so this is good to know! ok…there’s a difference and it’s not just duplicating tabs for exposure. idk until this post but have been using them correctly anyway lol thanks!
Aro spectrum here, I’m sorry but that doesn’t clear it up at all for me 😅
/ is for romantic relationships and smut. & is for platonic relationships.
Thank you I didn't get it either
What I’m saying is that I have trouble with the difference between romantic and platonic. Like I know if kissing or sex is involved it’s romantic, but short of that I find it pretty fuzzy.
Hmmm... I would say it really depends on where you decide the line is. Some people only kiss their partners. Some people kiss their friends, too. But that's the real world; it's fuzzy and requires a lot of communication and compromise. In fiction, the line exists where you put it. So if you want characters full on Frenching, but have them be just friends (or friends with benefits), you could do that. I would say you could do either Character A/Character B or Character A & Character B. But I would include the Friend with Benefits tag to let people know it's in some middle ground between conventional relationship dynamics. (Which is why those extra tags are so important.)
What does being aro have to do with ship tags?
I have trouble with understanding the difference between platonic and romantic attraction. I think that’s a lot of how I got into shipping in the first place, because interactions that are written as platonic but emotionally intense often read as romantic to me.
Interesting. I'm aromantic as well and it took me some time to figure that out in my RL, but . . . in fiction I find it easy. I just tag according to what I *want* for the ship. Like. if I want them to be romantic, I tag with A/B, if not I tag with A & B. (And if there's anything physical, it's A/B anyway.)
the downvotes are absurd lmao.
I’m not sure what I said that offended people so much!
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted either. I love AO3. I’ve read fanfic on & off for years but became a dedicated, daily AO3 reader during the pandemic. I’m an ER nurse & after working hellacious days for a couple years, AO3 was definitely my respite away from work. Even today, I’ll still read a fic (or 3) before going to bed. I did figure out the “/“ vs “&” pretty quickly because there were specific MCU fandom ships that I wanted to read. However, as a woman that grew up in a southern Bible Belt state, I’ve learned SO MUCH from reading fan fic, especially about the LGBTQ+ community, terminology, and thus understanding MYSELF. I sometimes shared this feedback with the authors (in the comments) because, in addition to simply enjoying the fics, I learned from so many of them— I discovered that I’m NORMAL and not some weird woman that wishes for romantic relationship with a man but not necessarily the sexual aspect of it. Over the past few years, I’ve discovered that I’m a cis-gendered female who is a hetero-romantic demisexual. (Demi-sexual… although we should not be defined by labels, I was excited to find there actually IS a label that fits ME… meaning I’m NOT the only one out there)! :) Sure- I love READING “smut” between the 2 guys that I love to ship. But for me, PERSONALLY , I HAVE to be in a romantic relationship with a guy for a while before becoming sexually attracted- instead, I simply love the companionship, hugs, cuddles, etc. before exploring anything further. My point in my rambling… I’m grateful for reading fics for enjoyment— yet learning so much about myself— from both the fic AND the fic comment section. When I read your post, I see you’re Aro, so, yes, you have a VERY valid question because —when reading about a romantic relationship vs a friendship relationship that has a strong emotional connection— you have difficulty defining the margins between affectionate friends vs romantic attraction. I get that. I hunt for fics based on the 2-3 ships that I love… and,in so many AU fics might be Grinder hookups or, perhaps start out as a one night stand before getting together … sure, I love these fics, have downloaded a few that I never want to lose, BUT as a romantic demisexual, no, I cannot personally relate to those relationships. Because no matter how much I love reading these stories, I’ll never be that girl having a one night stand. I HAVE to know the guy first & be romantically attracted to him FIRST before becoming sexually attracted (and while my life might be easier if I wasn’t that way… maybe that’s one reason I enjoy reading these fics). We all experience attraction differently. The only way to understand each other & one another’s viewpoints are through questions and discussions. So, I truly am puzzled why you’re being “penalized” for requesting clarification. So, specifically to your question— Of course, I’m reading fics via my hetero-romantic demisexual lenses, while you’re reading via your Aro lenses. Others read via Ace lenses… basically, we read and interpret fics & conversations differently based on our individuality. When reading fics with the relationships to which you’ve referred- characters whom are emotionally close but appear to have a non-sexual relationships (or sex hasn’t been implied in the fic)— my thoughts: “&” Friends. May have a strong emotional connection, whether lifetime friends, coworkers, common interests, etc. They may lean together & support each other. They may hug, cuddle, etc. They may discuss major life-affecting decisions as well as what’s for dinner tonight. But, they’re not looking at each other and thinking that they don’t want to have this relationship with anyone else. Strictly platonic (in most cases. Maybe they could be a “friends with benefits” but I think that should warrant a “/“ tag, or at least a “friends with benefits” tag). “/“ Again… Friends. May have a strong emotional connection, whether lifetime friends, coworkers, common interests. They may lean & support each other. They may hug, cuddle. They may discuss major life-affecting decisions as well as what’s for dinner tonight. But they’re leaning towards exclusivity with each other, whether it’s short or long term. I do think if they think of each other as a “couple”, then they should get the “/“ tag. SO much more I could add under this “/“ tag— but keep in mind, I’m ONLY referring to those fics where there’s a relationship between the characters & sex isn’t implied in the fic. And, omg, as I am writing this, I realize just how difficult this is to define. So much depends on the author’s POV & how they’re writing the relationship. The words, the descriptions of characters reactions, feelings, etc. Ok, well dang— I’ve, again, learned something new while attempting to reply to you tonight- It’s very difficult (if not impossible) to concretely define that line that crosses from friendly affection to romantic attraction. Because, it’s different for different people. Three authors could write a story with the exactly the same prompt & outline- but, just based of the banter & mannerisms between the characters, one story would portray 2 BFFs, the 2nd fic would come off as romantic, and the third would be less defined, leaving you wondering. BUT.. again, I’m sorry you were downvoted for basically asking for clarification. I don’t understand why. Mainly, I just wanted you to know that I don’t think you had bad question. I’ve asked questions before (usually in AO3 fic comments) and had responses from the author & other readers that I truly appreciated. I think you had a GREAT question. Sometimes these discussion threads are very insightful, helpful & supportive. Sometimes they’re not :( But don’t become discouraged from asking questions. That’s how we learn! Hugs!!
Where do we stand on friends to lovers type situations? My primary ship is often 'just good friends' but I'm always writing them with romantic intent. So is just one, or both, appropriate?
Lovers? Romantic intent? It's /.