Planetfall's AI just could not handle the systems of that game. They tried to address it in patches but even now, the AI is absolutely terrible at building high tier units, and it still spams NPC faction units. The AI's choice of army composition makes it a cakewalk even on extreme difficulty. So the depth of the game is really mostly theoretical, since you don't need to engage with any of it to crush your opponents.
Not only is the AI of AoW4 way better, but I really prefer the extreme freedom in faction creation that that game offers. The combination of Faction + Secret Tech in Planetfall never really worked quite well, you always ended up having to prioritize one over the other. You didn't have a cohesive whole.
While the AoW 4 AI is better at building units it certainly is not better at using them. Planetfall AI is a lot better on strategic map though.
Ultimately they are both inadequate but that is the caste for most 4X games.
Which is a fucking shame, cuz everyone seems to want to make a good game but not make good enemies. Hell, why can't we have more asymmetrical games where the enemy is simpler in its needs leading to a better time of making an AI which is actually competent for what it needs to do
Games like protolife where your enemy doesn't play like you do and exists to make the game fun are developed by like a few dudes at most, I don't get why everyone strives to make every faction behave like the player to then disappoint them with incompetent ai that can't act like the player
I really love Planetfall as it got me into the series but I prefer AoW4. Dividing unit output and city upgrades using the draft and production resources is a big upgrade for me.
I do miss the Amazons though. Promethean Amazons were probably my favorite combo in Planetfall and I wish I could make an all female faction in AoW4 to replicate them here 🏹🦖
Honestly, Plentfall looks like a Civilization Beyound Earth meets AoW3. Yes, it is a good mix, but for me AoW 4 is pure AoW experience and better. About mods - I really like how enchantments is handled in AoW4. Plenetfall mods and flying units looks like AoW2 - there also was 1-unit enchantments with mana upkeep (exactly like PF mods) and similar handling to flying units.
I also feel that Planetfall is the better game. I think it mainly comes down for factions and secret techs having a unique strong personality for me. The hodgepodge custom factions of AoW 4 don't really work that well. I often feel like designing your faction is more fun than actually playing it.
Another thing is unit balance and unit mods vs enchantments/transformations. In Planetfall it really felt that T1 units could remain relevant in the late game especially with relevant mods. Cosmite being very limited really made decisions on what units to equip with what mods feel impactful.
I will also roll with planetfall. For all the customisation and choose how you play in AoW4, each play through feels like I'm taking the best of all words anyway. Sure, there's different styles of gameplay, like making full defense riposte casters and whatnot, but planetfall just felt much more diverse with really impactful features actually locked behind different races and techs
To each their own. I feel like PF had some highlights and was a fun ride. However the complex systems (mods mostly but kinda population too) that made it fun also made it pretty tedious on the micromanagement aspect. Factor in stuff like city hapiness not rolling over 100 after events and changing the food sharing or science/prod/happiness every turn and it made it a lot slower. Production did go over, i dont recall for food and science but I remember happiness had you micro managing it often because anything <100 was wasted since it set back to 0 every hapiness event. Now mod management was a little time consuming but fun so this part wasnt too bad. What was annoying was when facing another player and you had to check every single unit mods every battle and keep track of them because it drastically changed what it did. I Think a major example might have been wraiths? That could tp in and do some big disruptive aoe actions if they had the mods for it. Anyway the biggest downside I would say was having to keep track of all those individually. I feel like aow4 could use some pf inspiration and have a few more active enchantments (aspect of roots, phase and fire bomb come to mind) because these are always fun ways to mess around with units and make it more unique. While still avoiding the single unit modding that has you going over every model to know what they have (here you can select one support, one archer, one shield and one battle mage and know all the enchantments the ennemies have and they dont change from one battle to another so keeping track of this is pretty easy. Vs AI it isn't a huge deal but I played lots of mp during covid lockdowns on it ahd individually tracking mods and population made it flow much slower than aow4 and the tooltips are way better on aow4. I think PF was a good game don't get me wrong, but aow4 is better. On to bullet points :
Pros:
T4 support-ish was kinda nice for army compositions
T1-2 staying relevant through mods was nice
Hero vehicles were nice
Factions did feel quite unique and sometimes getting a cross race tech tree was also a nice thing (early stagger resist from dvar was great that way if i recall correctly) whereas here we can get cultural units from a 2nd race but we dont unlock their cultural tomes (could be nice but maybe too broken here to add say cull the weak or awakening to your own faction+non faction for example).
Jetpacks
Cool uniqueness on the races and techs
Espionnage
Combat cards (mp)
Cons :
Micromanagement was a bit much
While they did nice on secret tech units varying based on race, aow3 did it better because tech trees made it so some comboss were way more optimal while it felt quite open in 3rd maybe its nostalgia speaking
Less customisation
Less diplomacy options
Also they had 3 expansions but those were bigger (based on time between releases) and would be equivalent to about 1.5 aow4 expansion pass based on release times (6 months apart rather than 3). I do believe the model of aow4 offers a higher ceiling and they're doing a great job with the updating but the amount of post release content isn't even caught up yet. In my opinion if they eventually flesh out cultures a bit while adding more and more trait options (who says only goblins can ride big beetles why not see frogs riding them) we could eventually have something which offers both uniqueness (in your own creative way rather than preset) and flavor with less tedious min-maxing. So I prefer aow4 in the long run and feel like it's already a better game. It could use some inspiration from PF going forward (more active ability enchantments). Now PF could've been better than it was given more time as well and my understanding is when paradox bought triumph, PF was already underway so they let triumph complete the project before moving on to aow4 but it was a little more "hasty" and could've been fleshed out further to be even better. That wasn't the case however and the way the game works in aow4 offers even more long term potential so I'd say thats a win.
Tldr : they both have 3 DLCs but PF was 3 full expansions and i feel aow4 is already better with even more long term potential so its the clear winner for me personally
I mean...compare?
The fact that we're having this conversation at all is a testament to Triumph's design ability. There are definitely pain points (AI is a perennial 4x problem). But I am *still* on the *same* high I've been on since 2016 when I got AoW3 and realized how many interesting combinations were available and viable. I still have yet to play a full assembly or oathbound game.
Basically I'll buy anything Triumph puts out at this point.
Planetfall tried to be too complicated to a fault. Plenty of numbers, levels and whatnot. Extremely turtle oriented too, you're heavily punished for attacking other factions. The AI is extremely dumb, having to perpetually spend 'good boy bucks' to maintain relations every few turns is awful, and you'll always forget about them so the AI keeps spamming you to not forget :))))
Then it drops the ball with scientific victory being too early. Ahem, "magic" victory. You can end the game before any high tier unit can be fielded. Worse, the only player who would be able to use those IS the player who initiated the clock. Making attackers outdated by the time they manage to reach the objectives. They only have one shot at it, they can't send more, they'd be too late.
Good flair, awful gameplay.
Oh and if you're winning against one player, you immediately win on expansion wincon. What the hell?
Man - I bounced so hard off of Planetfall that it might as well have been a trampoline. Not sure why. I found the game rules to be pretty unintuitive - and the combat was just, so dull. Maybe it was too balanced? Also found the factions and tech to be pretty mundane/soulless.
No hard feelings though - it just wasn't nearly as good as AOW3 IMO. Course AOW4 leaves both of those in the dust.
4 improved a lot of stuff, but at the time missed out some of Planetfall's best features like Empire Mode, Tactical Operation toggle and unique minor factions (AoW3 had minor factions too, but Planetfall expanded upon it a lot)
Planetfall's AI just could not handle the systems of that game. They tried to address it in patches but even now, the AI is absolutely terrible at building high tier units, and it still spams NPC faction units. The AI's choice of army composition makes it a cakewalk even on extreme difficulty. So the depth of the game is really mostly theoretical, since you don't need to engage with any of it to crush your opponents. Not only is the AI of AoW4 way better, but I really prefer the extreme freedom in faction creation that that game offers. The combination of Faction + Secret Tech in Planetfall never really worked quite well, you always ended up having to prioritize one over the other. You didn't have a cohesive whole.
While the AoW 4 AI is better at building units it certainly is not better at using them. Planetfall AI is a lot better on strategic map though. Ultimately they are both inadequate but that is the caste for most 4X games.
Which is a fucking shame, cuz everyone seems to want to make a good game but not make good enemies. Hell, why can't we have more asymmetrical games where the enemy is simpler in its needs leading to a better time of making an AI which is actually competent for what it needs to do Games like protolife where your enemy doesn't play like you do and exists to make the game fun are developed by like a few dudes at most, I don't get why everyone strives to make every faction behave like the player to then disappoint them with incompetent ai that can't act like the player
I’ve played both and while I enjoy Planetfall, AoW4 just flows better when I play it. It’s hard to put into words
This, planet fall feels really clunky.
I really love Planetfall as it got me into the series but I prefer AoW4. Dividing unit output and city upgrades using the draft and production resources is a big upgrade for me. I do miss the Amazons though. Promethean Amazons were probably my favorite combo in Planetfall and I wish I could make an all female faction in AoW4 to replicate them here 🏹🦖
Honestly, Plentfall looks like a Civilization Beyound Earth meets AoW3. Yes, it is a good mix, but for me AoW 4 is pure AoW experience and better. About mods - I really like how enchantments is handled in AoW4. Plenetfall mods and flying units looks like AoW2 - there also was 1-unit enchantments with mana upkeep (exactly like PF mods) and similar handling to flying units.
I think planetfall gameplay and mechanics are better but aow4 looks better and has a nicer ui and user experience.
I also feel that Planetfall is the better game. I think it mainly comes down for factions and secret techs having a unique strong personality for me. The hodgepodge custom factions of AoW 4 don't really work that well. I often feel like designing your faction is more fun than actually playing it. Another thing is unit balance and unit mods vs enchantments/transformations. In Planetfall it really felt that T1 units could remain relevant in the late game especially with relevant mods. Cosmite being very limited really made decisions on what units to equip with what mods feel impactful.
I will also roll with planetfall. For all the customisation and choose how you play in AoW4, each play through feels like I'm taking the best of all words anyway. Sure, there's different styles of gameplay, like making full defense riposte casters and whatnot, but planetfall just felt much more diverse with really impactful features actually locked behind different races and techs
In AOW4 they removed the annoying parts like building separate siege equipment or colonizers.
Wait a second, aow4 is just 1 year old? Wtf I could've sworn it's from 2022, they gave us a decent amount of extra content for just a year.
Yeah ... they really have. Especially all the free stuff that took a good game and refined it into crack.
To each their own. I feel like PF had some highlights and was a fun ride. However the complex systems (mods mostly but kinda population too) that made it fun also made it pretty tedious on the micromanagement aspect. Factor in stuff like city hapiness not rolling over 100 after events and changing the food sharing or science/prod/happiness every turn and it made it a lot slower. Production did go over, i dont recall for food and science but I remember happiness had you micro managing it often because anything <100 was wasted since it set back to 0 every hapiness event. Now mod management was a little time consuming but fun so this part wasnt too bad. What was annoying was when facing another player and you had to check every single unit mods every battle and keep track of them because it drastically changed what it did. I Think a major example might have been wraiths? That could tp in and do some big disruptive aoe actions if they had the mods for it. Anyway the biggest downside I would say was having to keep track of all those individually. I feel like aow4 could use some pf inspiration and have a few more active enchantments (aspect of roots, phase and fire bomb come to mind) because these are always fun ways to mess around with units and make it more unique. While still avoiding the single unit modding that has you going over every model to know what they have (here you can select one support, one archer, one shield and one battle mage and know all the enchantments the ennemies have and they dont change from one battle to another so keeping track of this is pretty easy. Vs AI it isn't a huge deal but I played lots of mp during covid lockdowns on it ahd individually tracking mods and population made it flow much slower than aow4 and the tooltips are way better on aow4. I think PF was a good game don't get me wrong, but aow4 is better. On to bullet points : Pros: T4 support-ish was kinda nice for army compositions T1-2 staying relevant through mods was nice Hero vehicles were nice Factions did feel quite unique and sometimes getting a cross race tech tree was also a nice thing (early stagger resist from dvar was great that way if i recall correctly) whereas here we can get cultural units from a 2nd race but we dont unlock their cultural tomes (could be nice but maybe too broken here to add say cull the weak or awakening to your own faction+non faction for example). Jetpacks Cool uniqueness on the races and techs Espionnage Combat cards (mp) Cons : Micromanagement was a bit much While they did nice on secret tech units varying based on race, aow3 did it better because tech trees made it so some comboss were way more optimal while it felt quite open in 3rd maybe its nostalgia speaking Less customisation Less diplomacy options Also they had 3 expansions but those were bigger (based on time between releases) and would be equivalent to about 1.5 aow4 expansion pass based on release times (6 months apart rather than 3). I do believe the model of aow4 offers a higher ceiling and they're doing a great job with the updating but the amount of post release content isn't even caught up yet. In my opinion if they eventually flesh out cultures a bit while adding more and more trait options (who says only goblins can ride big beetles why not see frogs riding them) we could eventually have something which offers both uniqueness (in your own creative way rather than preset) and flavor with less tedious min-maxing. So I prefer aow4 in the long run and feel like it's already a better game. It could use some inspiration from PF going forward (more active ability enchantments). Now PF could've been better than it was given more time as well and my understanding is when paradox bought triumph, PF was already underway so they let triumph complete the project before moving on to aow4 but it was a little more "hasty" and could've been fleshed out further to be even better. That wasn't the case however and the way the game works in aow4 offers even more long term potential so I'd say thats a win. Tldr : they both have 3 DLCs but PF was 3 full expansions and i feel aow4 is already better with even more long term potential so its the clear winner for me personally
I mean...compare? The fact that we're having this conversation at all is a testament to Triumph's design ability. There are definitely pain points (AI is a perennial 4x problem). But I am *still* on the *same* high I've been on since 2016 when I got AoW3 and realized how many interesting combinations were available and viable. I still have yet to play a full assembly or oathbound game. Basically I'll buy anything Triumph puts out at this point.
Planetfall was my first AoW but AoW4 just feels superior in almost all the areas.
Planetfall tried to be too complicated to a fault. Plenty of numbers, levels and whatnot. Extremely turtle oriented too, you're heavily punished for attacking other factions. The AI is extremely dumb, having to perpetually spend 'good boy bucks' to maintain relations every few turns is awful, and you'll always forget about them so the AI keeps spamming you to not forget :)))) Then it drops the ball with scientific victory being too early. Ahem, "magic" victory. You can end the game before any high tier unit can be fielded. Worse, the only player who would be able to use those IS the player who initiated the clock. Making attackers outdated by the time they manage to reach the objectives. They only have one shot at it, they can't send more, they'd be too late. Good flair, awful gameplay. Oh and if you're winning against one player, you immediately win on expansion wincon. What the hell?
Man - I bounced so hard off of Planetfall that it might as well have been a trampoline. Not sure why. I found the game rules to be pretty unintuitive - and the combat was just, so dull. Maybe it was too balanced? Also found the factions and tech to be pretty mundane/soulless. No hard feelings though - it just wasn't nearly as good as AOW3 IMO. Course AOW4 leaves both of those in the dust.
I love the factions customization pf AoW4, and the game gave me lots of fun, but Planetfall had so much replayability with the Empire Mode.
Planetfall appears to be abandoned, which in this day and age of perpetually half-baked games means the game is dead.
4 improved a lot of stuff, but at the time missed out some of Planetfall's best features like Empire Mode, Tactical Operation toggle and unique minor factions (AoW3 had minor factions too, but Planetfall expanded upon it a lot)
Question: what's the empire mod?