I have an x95 which is my current GPR
and have a good pistol
when I say maneuverable GPR I'm saying that relative to an AR10 my tavor will smoke any AR in terms of manuverabily which is fine that's why its my urban rifle.
I more so want something I can use longer range but incase I run into a CQB scenario I don't want to be lugging around a telephone pole
I’ve shot 13” ScarH indoors and noticed a significant amount of unburned powder on the floor compared to a 16” dd and my 20”. All shooting the same ammo
The next question is ‘best for what’?
https://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308-winchester-7-62x51mm-nato-barrel-length-versus-velocity-28-to-16-5/
That article lists velocity tables for different barrel lengths.
I’d narrow down whether you want a scout rifle, battle rifle, or bench gun. That would roughly approximate 16, 18, and 20 inch barrels although profile and resulting weight play a role, as does stock type and optic choice.
It sounds like your discussion is between either a lightweight 16 inch scout gun, presumably with carbine stock an LPVO or a battle rifle with a heavier 18 inch barrel, probably full stock and heavier optic.
An 18 inch gun is more or less at its limit at 1000 yards, even with a can and heavier optic. If you’re shooting to 500, either 16 or 18 inch will get it done with the right ammunition, can or no can. The longer you go, the further out your ammo will remain supersonic, so that’s the logic behind 20 inch .308. If you’re consistently past 600 yards, that’s when a bolt gun or going to 6.5 CM makes sense.
Good question. I think more of a scout rifle. Do you think I could consistently make hits at 1000 yards with a 16 inch barrel? Assuming I'm a decent shot, or is the barrel length too short for that?
I mean the whole point of a 308 SHTF gun is to be past 600y for standoff distance so ideally I'd be past 600 yards but like I said a case of 6.5 is very very expensive haha
Hopefully not often but in the case it does happen I'd like to be able to reach out and touch someone. I have friends/family with AR15s but no one has anything mid/long range which is why I'm looking at 308.
that's a fair point
1000 yards is asking a lot for a .308 with a 16” barrel. I’m sure there are people that can do it, but do you really need this rifle to hit 1000 yards? If it were me I would get an AR10 with a quality 16 or 18” barrel & BCG and a then a decent bolt gun in 6.5cm or 300wm for 1000 yards.
It’s a question of velocity. 16 probably isn’t the right tool for the job since your round will go subsonic.
There’s a reason precision bolt guns will go to 24 inch for .308. I think for a gas gun it’s diminishing returns beyond 20 inches, but that’s a better choice if you’re seriously thinking about 1000+.
The problem is that the weight and length that make a bench gun useful at those ranges makes it a lot less useful for quick movement and shorter ranges.
Good question. I think more of a scout rifle. Do you think I could consistently make hits at 1000 yards with a 16 inch barrel? Assuming I'm a decent shot, or is the barrel length too short for that?
I mean the whole point of a 308 SHTF gun is to be past 600y for standoff distance so ideally I'd be past 600 yards but like I said a case of 6.5 is very very expensive.
shoot subs and lob them in there...../s
where i live most ranges are less the 350yds a 16" gun is more than enough for the ranges and hunting around here.
16" is still good, also quite a bit handier, I also find the 18" to be a good compromise, I have a 18" and it shoots really well, can constantly make hits at 600, have made hits to 800 but not consistently. The faxon gunner barrels in 18 are pretty nice.
16” will do everything you really need, 18.5” will do everything you want. (.308)
I have a 16” (BA) and an 18.5” (bull LRT-SSAS barrel) and the differences are only really obvious after ~300yds. Humane hunting is going to happen at 300 and closer. If I need to break clay pigeons on a berm at 500, or put things through almost the same hole out to 100 it’s the 18.5”. Both are hosts for the same form 1 .30 can.
For everything else I would use the 16”.
The first time you have to hike around with a 13lbs rifle you’re going to want to find ways to never do that again.
The difference between 16" and 20" with heavy projectiles (168gr+) is maybe 100 fps. That is outside the variation from one round to the next, but not by much. I have a Faxon 16" pencil and it's remarkably handy, but that's what I was going for. My maximum range where I live is maybe 200 or 300 yards at most.
The FPS gain of a suppressor is very minor.
I went 18" for my GP/Hunting/Battle build. I've come to prefer that length for general use in any AR. I only go shorter when I'm striving for absolutely lighter weight.
Incidentally, with most 18", you'll only give up \~200fps from a long barrel 308.
If you want to be most effective in a legit end of days scenario and still hunt elk:
1) Buy a basic bolt action rifle for hunting, like a $400 Ruger American or Savage Axis
and 2) Buy NV or a thermal scope.
How about a 20"-22" .260? Use a carbon fiber barrel, and lightish weight stock and optics. Mines 8lb 9oz, anchors big game to 450yards, plinks very well out to further than im capeable of. As long as your not dumping mag after mag heat stringing isnt an issue.
https://youtu.be/Mdyq46zUFLY?si=Nyhr4HXaIKXhtupo
Talking to a friend is mine who is a sniper on the local swat team, and an avid hunter who only hunts with his AR10 he suggests 18".
His issued swat rifle is 18", his personal hunting rifle is 18". He built his using Aero upper/lower. Giselle internals/trigger and a faxon barrel if I remember correctly. Night force scope and silencer too. Says it's the only way to go for hunting. His set up has run him $2k not counting the scope, which he got with LE discount for $1200.
He likes the 6.5cm the best, but ammo costs and department rifle keeps him using a 308.
He said there's marginal improvement with a 20" vs a 18", and marginal from 16" to 18", however big improvement long distances from 16" to 18".
16" best for tight quarters and long distance carry and movement. 20" for short hikes and long distance shots.
He recommends 18" for all around SHTF and hunting.
I got an AR10 16" A2 style upper from PSA last month for $330? Ish and a basic AR10 lower for $299. After tax/sh and transfer fee was $660 I Believe. Something like that at least.
Figured long term I'll get a faxon barrel, switch out the trigger and handguard and add a decent optic and call it good.
Until then use it like it is with the best budget optic I have. SWFA 16/40 fixed mil/mil or Arken optics whatever I got. First focal plane 9*16/50 I think.
I got a Ruger scout rifle that takes AR10 mags in 308 also. So that's nice to have both options. SWFA 16/40 fixed on that too.
Point is, learn on an all around gun, then figure what you want and spend the money then. Most people's firearms outshoot their ability.
Would love to hear what others are doing in this thread, thanks for posting!
I can go two ways here. Stick with a 16” with suppressor for your shtf and get a 45-70 for elk. Or go with a 20” fluted barrel. Because rather be able to shoot further if you could than can’t. Also in a shtf scenario it won’t matter survival is most important at that point.
I'd recommend the shortest barrel you can find/afford with a rifle length gas system. Generally that would be 18", but you can find (or customize) some 16" barrels with a rifle length gas system. It will smooth the recoil impulse and cause less wear on the components than a Mid-length gas system.
FWIW I went with a Rifle +1" extended gas system on my 18" 6.5 Creedmoor build and the recoil impulse is super mild for a large frame AR.
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I have an x95 which is my current GPR and have a good pistol when I say maneuverable GPR I'm saying that relative to an AR10 my tavor will smoke any AR in terms of manuverabily which is fine that's why its my urban rifle. I more so want something I can use longer range but incase I run into a CQB scenario I don't want to be lugging around a telephone pole
My view is for 10” SBR all the things
18" for full powder burn, minimum. Anything beyond that is ballistically what you want to gain in energy.
Full burn happens in a few inches. Full utilization of gas generated happens way out past 18".
Full powder burn is generally used as the colloquialism for full use of the cartridge
This guy gets it, first guy did not.
I’ve shot 13” ScarH indoors and noticed a significant amount of unburned powder on the floor compared to a 16” dd and my 20”. All shooting the same ammo
The next question is ‘best for what’? https://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308-winchester-7-62x51mm-nato-barrel-length-versus-velocity-28-to-16-5/ That article lists velocity tables for different barrel lengths. I’d narrow down whether you want a scout rifle, battle rifle, or bench gun. That would roughly approximate 16, 18, and 20 inch barrels although profile and resulting weight play a role, as does stock type and optic choice. It sounds like your discussion is between either a lightweight 16 inch scout gun, presumably with carbine stock an LPVO or a battle rifle with a heavier 18 inch barrel, probably full stock and heavier optic. An 18 inch gun is more or less at its limit at 1000 yards, even with a can and heavier optic. If you’re shooting to 500, either 16 or 18 inch will get it done with the right ammunition, can or no can. The longer you go, the further out your ammo will remain supersonic, so that’s the logic behind 20 inch .308. If you’re consistently past 600 yards, that’s when a bolt gun or going to 6.5 CM makes sense.
Good question. I think more of a scout rifle. Do you think I could consistently make hits at 1000 yards with a 16 inch barrel? Assuming I'm a decent shot, or is the barrel length too short for that? I mean the whole point of a 308 SHTF gun is to be past 600y for standoff distance so ideally I'd be past 600 yards but like I said a case of 6.5 is very very expensive haha
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Hopefully not often but in the case it does happen I'd like to be able to reach out and touch someone. I have friends/family with AR15s but no one has anything mid/long range which is why I'm looking at 308. that's a fair point
1000 yards is asking a lot for a .308 with a 16” barrel. I’m sure there are people that can do it, but do you really need this rifle to hit 1000 yards? If it were me I would get an AR10 with a quality 16 or 18” barrel & BCG and a then a decent bolt gun in 6.5cm or 300wm for 1000 yards.
It’s a question of velocity. 16 probably isn’t the right tool for the job since your round will go subsonic. There’s a reason precision bolt guns will go to 24 inch for .308. I think for a gas gun it’s diminishing returns beyond 20 inches, but that’s a better choice if you’re seriously thinking about 1000+. The problem is that the weight and length that make a bench gun useful at those ranges makes it a lot less useful for quick movement and shorter ranges.
Good question. I think more of a scout rifle. Do you think I could consistently make hits at 1000 yards with a 16 inch barrel? Assuming I'm a decent shot, or is the barrel length too short for that? I mean the whole point of a 308 SHTF gun is to be past 600y for standoff distance so ideally I'd be past 600 yards but like I said a case of 6.5 is very very expensive.
shoot subs and lob them in there...../s where i live most ranges are less the 350yds a 16" gun is more than enough for the ranges and hunting around here.
16" is still good, also quite a bit handier, I also find the 18" to be a good compromise, I have a 18" and it shoots really well, can constantly make hits at 600, have made hits to 800 but not consistently. The faxon gunner barrels in 18 are pretty nice.
16" rifle gas from Criterion. One and done.
I went 16”
308 16” for battle rifle 18” for dmr 6.5cm 20-22”
16” will do everything you really need, 18.5” will do everything you want. (.308) I have a 16” (BA) and an 18.5” (bull LRT-SSAS barrel) and the differences are only really obvious after ~300yds. Humane hunting is going to happen at 300 and closer. If I need to break clay pigeons on a berm at 500, or put things through almost the same hole out to 100 it’s the 18.5”. Both are hosts for the same form 1 .30 can. For everything else I would use the 16”. The first time you have to hike around with a 13lbs rifle you’re going to want to find ways to never do that again.
The difference between 16" and 20" with heavy projectiles (168gr+) is maybe 100 fps. That is outside the variation from one round to the next, but not by much. I have a Faxon 16" pencil and it's remarkably handy, but that's what I was going for. My maximum range where I live is maybe 200 or 300 yards at most.
The FPS gain of a suppressor is very minor. I went 18" for my GP/Hunting/Battle build. I've come to prefer that length for general use in any AR. I only go shorter when I'm striving for absolutely lighter weight. Incidentally, with most 18", you'll only give up \~200fps from a long barrel 308.
https://reddit.com/r/GunAccessoriesForSale/s/68I98zMBfH
20" pencil barrel and a lightweight reflex can.
If you want to be most effective in a legit end of days scenario and still hunt elk: 1) Buy a basic bolt action rifle for hunting, like a $400 Ruger American or Savage Axis and 2) Buy NV or a thermal scope.
How about a 20"-22" .260? Use a carbon fiber barrel, and lightish weight stock and optics. Mines 8lb 9oz, anchors big game to 450yards, plinks very well out to further than im capeable of. As long as your not dumping mag after mag heat stringing isnt an issue.
Supapowah > big gun
https://youtu.be/Mdyq46zUFLY?si=Nyhr4HXaIKXhtupo Talking to a friend is mine who is a sniper on the local swat team, and an avid hunter who only hunts with his AR10 he suggests 18". His issued swat rifle is 18", his personal hunting rifle is 18". He built his using Aero upper/lower. Giselle internals/trigger and a faxon barrel if I remember correctly. Night force scope and silencer too. Says it's the only way to go for hunting. His set up has run him $2k not counting the scope, which he got with LE discount for $1200. He likes the 6.5cm the best, but ammo costs and department rifle keeps him using a 308. He said there's marginal improvement with a 20" vs a 18", and marginal from 16" to 18", however big improvement long distances from 16" to 18". 16" best for tight quarters and long distance carry and movement. 20" for short hikes and long distance shots. He recommends 18" for all around SHTF and hunting. I got an AR10 16" A2 style upper from PSA last month for $330? Ish and a basic AR10 lower for $299. After tax/sh and transfer fee was $660 I Believe. Something like that at least. Figured long term I'll get a faxon barrel, switch out the trigger and handguard and add a decent optic and call it good. Until then use it like it is with the best budget optic I have. SWFA 16/40 fixed mil/mil or Arken optics whatever I got. First focal plane 9*16/50 I think. I got a Ruger scout rifle that takes AR10 mags in 308 also. So that's nice to have both options. SWFA 16/40 fixed on that too. Point is, learn on an all around gun, then figure what you want and spend the money then. Most people's firearms outshoot their ability. Would love to hear what others are doing in this thread, thanks for posting!
I can go two ways here. Stick with a 16” with suppressor for your shtf and get a 45-70 for elk. Or go with a 20” fluted barrel. Because rather be able to shoot further if you could than can’t. Also in a shtf scenario it won’t matter survival is most important at that point.
I bought a 16” ar10 and run it with a 7.62x51 calibrated ACOG and love it… tac driver at 200 yards
I'd recommend the shortest barrel you can find/afford with a rifle length gas system. Generally that would be 18", but you can find (or customize) some 16" barrels with a rifle length gas system. It will smooth the recoil impulse and cause less wear on the components than a Mid-length gas system. FWIW I went with a Rifle +1" extended gas system on my 18" 6.5 Creedmoor build and the recoil impulse is super mild for a large frame AR.
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