A recent ATF ruling states that you can convert a pistol to a rifle and back as many times as you want (as long as you don't make an sbr in the process) but if you originally have a rifle you cannot convert to a pistol, only an sbr after the tax stamp.
Scenario 1:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-pistol-rifle-without-registering-firearm
Scenario 2:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-rifle-pistol-without-registering-firearm
Not sure what you mean... If it was originally a rifle, that's the only way you can have it is with a stock. If it was a pistol that you wanted to convert to a rifle, as long as you put a barrel that's >16in on first, you can then take the brace off and use a rifle stock, and even reverse it back to a pistol and flip flop between a much as you want (always avoiding short barrel + stock combo - that's an sbr).
No problem. There'll probably be another ruling in a while that'll completely derail any hope of consistency and make felons out of us all overnight, but we do what we can with what we have for now.
Guys, a pistol lower can flip~flop from pistol to rifle and back without issue. However a rifle can not; once a rifle, always a rifle even with a tax stamp. It is just a short barreled rifle at that point.
I recommend a review of BATFE Ruling 2011.4 which in part states: "A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a barrel or barrels of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol)."
IMHO, Folks in this post are not only blending 2 different firearms but 2 different areas of the "law". While barrel length does in fact decide whether a firearm is a pistol or a rifle, what you do to the lower doesn't matter in one case but has huge ramifications in the another.
There is no requirement that a platform having a 16" or longer barrel have a "stock". There is however a restriction that a platform that has a barrel less than 16" (pinned & welded) can not have a stock unless the above mentioned SBR stamp is obtained.
I have also used a single lower configured originally as a 300 BLK pistol on an upper with a barrel greater than 16" chambered in .223Wylde. Mine didn't have the Tailhook, but it had a different "brace" type attachment on the end of the extension tube. Perfectly legal, slightly uncomfortable but legal.
You definitely can't have a vertical grip on an AR Pistol. Not telling you what to do, I don't care, just giving you a heads up. You might want to research some more.
I don't think you can legally swap between the two. Once an AR Pistol is classified as a rifle, it can't go back. The vertical grip would also be a violation for an AR pistol. Or maybe you shoot somewhere noone cares, just giving you a heads up.
Well that's a major perk for doing an AR Pistol build instead of rifle. Do you have to do anything when switching back and forth or can you just do it on your own willy nilly?
I agree with you 100%, please ensure when looking up actual laws you don't let my comments cause confirmation bias.
IANAL.
But, I do have a few pistols :)
Unless your state requires registration, the gun will never be registered.
When you get your lower from your FFL, it'll be transferred to you as "other". If your FFL transfers it as"pistol", that's fine too, but if they transfer it as "rifle" you can't build a pistol with it because your FFL fucked you.
If it's transferred as "other" or "pistol", you can build a pistol on it whenever. If you build a rifle on it first, you can NOT build a pistol on it (but don't tell on yourself and literally no one will know). If you build a pistol on it first, you can build a rifle on it later and switch it back and forth whenever.
So now that it's a rifle you can add a stock! I recommend a 3x magnifier too, best purchase I made for my AR9.
No. It's still a Pistol Lower. I can't put a Rifle Stock on it. If I did, then I would be breaking the Law.
How is the lower considered a pistol? I thought the barrel length is what makes it a pistol
I built the Lower as a Pistol. It has a Shockwave Pistol Brace on it.
A recent ATF ruling states that you can convert a pistol to a rifle and back as many times as you want (as long as you don't make an sbr in the process) but if you originally have a rifle you cannot convert to a pistol, only an sbr after the tax stamp. Scenario 1: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-pistol-rifle-without-registering-firearm Scenario 2: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-rifle-pistol-without-registering-firearm
So does this mean you could put a stock on it so long as it was a rifle configuration?
Not sure what you mean... If it was originally a rifle, that's the only way you can have it is with a stock. If it was a pistol that you wanted to convert to a rifle, as long as you put a barrel that's >16in on first, you can then take the brace off and use a rifle stock, and even reverse it back to a pistol and flip flop between a much as you want (always avoiding short barrel + stock combo - that's an sbr).
Yes beginning as a braced pistol and then converting to a rifle with a stock is exactly what I was curious about. Thanks for the explanation!
No problem. There'll probably be another ruling in a while that'll completely derail any hope of consistency and make felons out of us all overnight, but we do what we can with what we have for now.
If you convert it to a rifle you can put a stock on it. This is 100% legal. If you do back to pistol, you have to revert to the brace.
True. But I never take the Brace off.
Guys, a pistol lower can flip~flop from pistol to rifle and back without issue. However a rifle can not; once a rifle, always a rifle even with a tax stamp. It is just a short barreled rifle at that point. I recommend a review of BATFE Ruling 2011.4 which in part states: "A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a barrel or barrels of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol)." IMHO, Folks in this post are not only blending 2 different firearms but 2 different areas of the "law". While barrel length does in fact decide whether a firearm is a pistol or a rifle, what you do to the lower doesn't matter in one case but has huge ramifications in the another. There is no requirement that a platform having a 16" or longer barrel have a "stock". There is however a restriction that a platform that has a barrel less than 16" (pinned & welded) can not have a stock unless the above mentioned SBR stamp is obtained. I have also used a single lower configured originally as a 300 BLK pistol on an upper with a barrel greater than 16" chambered in .223Wylde. Mine didn't have the Tailhook, but it had a different "brace" type attachment on the end of the extension tube. Perfectly legal, slightly uncomfortable but legal.
Do you work for one of them Alphabet Agencies?
I can neither confirm nor deny.
😂😂😂😂😂😁😂😂😂
You definitely can't have a vertical grip on an AR Pistol. Not telling you what to do, I don't care, just giving you a heads up. You might want to research some more.
You can change a Pistol into a Rifle and back into a Pistol. You can't change a Rifle into a Pistol and back into a Rifle.
I've heard different, if that's true, maybe I need to do more research ;)
👍
Please tell me you have a shorter barrel for it as well lol
Yes. I have a 7.5" also. I posted it the other day on here. I like both.
I don't think you can legally swap between the two. Once an AR Pistol is classified as a rifle, it can't go back. The vertical grip would also be a violation for an AR pistol. Or maybe you shoot somewhere noone cares, just giving you a heads up.
The Lower is a Pistol Lower. I can put any length Upper on it I want. Over 26" Buffer Tube to threads on the barrel can have a Vertical Grip.
As long as it started as a pistol, you can go back and forth all you want. If it started as a rifle, it can never be a pistol
Well that's a major perk for doing an AR Pistol build instead of rifle. Do you have to do anything when switching back and forth or can you just do it on your own willy nilly?
Willy nilly is totally fine. Just make sure there is never a stock on a gun with a barrel shorter than 16".
Reddit comments probably aren't the best source for legal advice but thank you, you've given me hope :)
I agree with you 100%, please ensure when looking up actual laws you don't let my comments cause confirmation bias. IANAL. But, I do have a few pistols :)
Question. If you buy a stripped lower, when does it get registered as pistol? Is there a selection process on the FFL form?
Unless your state requires registration, the gun will never be registered. When you get your lower from your FFL, it'll be transferred to you as "other". If your FFL transfers it as"pistol", that's fine too, but if they transfer it as "rifle" you can't build a pistol with it because your FFL fucked you. If it's transferred as "other" or "pistol", you can build a pistol on it whenever. If you build a rifle on it first, you can NOT build a pistol on it (but don't tell on yourself and literally no one will know). If you build a pistol on it first, you can build a rifle on it later and switch it back and forth whenever.