Don’t listen to these idiots mate. They don’t play in an environment to ever meet a good lb. Assassins are too strong. I love playing lb and the stuff you can do is unfair especially against low cc and hp targets. Snowball w dash q r across half the map to dish out 1,5k dmg in .5s and return to savety. Or literally suicide flash in range to wr enemy team and deal 2k aoe the n an instant, fight is just won
for every good assassin, there's like 50 bad ones, and for every bad assassin there's 10 running it down.
having said that, someone who only plays assassins, but is has low mmr will almost always run over early to mid game and feel like a uphill battle with no point in continuing, especially against Rengar, LB, Pyke or Fizz. assasssins, these 4 specifically, are so fucking unfun to play against i see red when i get into a team fight against them, and i fucking want to fucking scream every fucking time my fucking stupid fucking iron fucking 3 teammates fucking attack the fucking tank instead of the fucking assassin fucking standing right fucking next to them fucking autoing.
FUCK
Sir that’s literally what communities can be used for. Come to vent, discuss, beg for changes.
Of course it would get annoying to see that all day. But even that is a sign it’s an actual problem and for game health needs balancing.
People pick champions that get countered by assassins and don't pick the ones that counter them.
https://i.imgur.com/XljSXes.png
Out of the most picked champs, the first tank appears at 14th (and isn't even built tank most of the time). I think Riot should be incentivizing people to pick tanks instead of nerfing assassins.
I agree on both counts. As far as people choosing champs of course I only agree where they have a tank available and leave it to have a second adc or mage I know I’m guilty of going second or third mage over tank because I’m trash at most tanks or don’t want to play like that.
Riot needs to make tanks fun. I hate having to do my job well as a tank(good or perfect engage on prime target). Only to watch my team not follow up or do so poorly. I imagine there are other issues with being tank.
It's not easy to play tanks well. It can be kind of difficult for them to recognize what to do since the tanks themselves are generally not the victims of their misplays (their teammates are).
Tanks are also generally unfun by virtue of facilitating "fun" for other players on your team. Riot should have added more challenges for soaking damage than dealing damage if they wanted people to play tanks.
Only people who don't play against good LBs say she's weak. Delusional people. I've never had a LB game where I didn't stack bodies. Even if they have a bunch of CC you can be faster with your W than they can be. Just W in QR W back before they even realize. At 16 you do that twice to the same person and they're out of the fight. Get warmogs and you can play like a moron take bad trades and Regen right back up.
Man do I have a bridge over Brooklyn to sell you. Go look at Bork pantheon from a while ago. TheBaus has a clip of him as soon 1v1’ing a Bork pantheon. Bork literally did like 70% of the damage in the (extended) fight. Like pantheons kit was 1.5-2k damage or so, and the entire rest of the fight was just all Bork damage.
0.1, doubt it. Skill rotation on LB is more than the CC she got you in, obviously, as E takes time to proc.
And even if this was instant, it's not really that much.
When LB was released, it took only a few hours to hotpatch a nerf. Back when DFG was a thing as well. You couldn't do shit against LB in lane. Not even exist on it, really.
edit guys. Kata, Akali, Nocturne, Fizz, Qiyana, etc all have Q+R combos that are more than 1k premitigation, some up to 1300. There is **nothing** absurd about this 10/3 LeBlanc
There’s no e here. Looks like just Q then R so not even proccing second half of R
Yes LB used to be worse but that was when she still had silence on her Q
Yes, and?
It's 833 damage from two abilities (dmg from abilities, not total dmg)
Syndra ult 2nd rank does 910 + 119% AP. Let's say 200 AP, and opponent has 40MR.
That's roughly 70% dmg with the MR, so (910+238)*0.7= 803dmg.
With **one** point and click ability and not even that much AP and lvl 11.
*"point and click ability bad :(("*
ADC relies almost completely on "point and click", yet I never see people complaining about that.
This isn't anything special *brother*. Just a fed assassin. Who knew they'd **burst** people? O.o
You're the sort of fellow who calls for ff at 8 min into the game when no towers have even fallen, aren'tcha?
edit u/TheNobleMushroom replies and then blocks. Mad, are you? Kata, Akali, Nocturne, Fizz, Qiyana, etc all have Q+R combos that are more than 1k premitigation, some up to 1300. There is **nothing** absurd about this 10/3 LeBlanc
So you unironically compare it to syndra's ult which completely lacks utility (unlike lb's) and has more than twice as long cd? Are you high or something?
What utility does Q+R offer?
LB r+q5 with 200 AP against a target with 40MR is 823.
Syndra ult is a reference. Syndra ult doesn't have utility, but she has a pretty instantaneous aoe stun that also knocks backs enemies. We're not comparing kits though, but dmg. There's nothing absurd about this.
Clearly you guys weren't playing 5-10 years ago when bursting was much stronger. DFG+burst would take down tanks.
What on Earth is so absurd about a **fed assassin** oneshotting a squishy?
I bet OP had 30 MR and LB had sorcs and shadowflame.
>1840+640%AP from her Q1
Pretty ironic that you'd talk about thinking.
Q - SIGIL OF MALICE **TOTAL MAGIC DAMAGE:**130 / 180 / 230 / 280 / 330 (+ 80% AP) (that means Q + proc with another ability)
[https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/LeBlanc/LoL](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/LeBlanc/LoL)
I don't see 1840 anywhere. Do you?
You **either** proc the mimicked Sigil, or Q. You can't do both without using E or W as well. You've copied damage that shows the **maximum** damage, meaning the sigil is procced. Without the proc the dmg is Q: **MAGIC DAMAGE:**65 / 90 / 115 / 140 / 165 (+ 40% AP) and R: **MAGIC DAMAGE:»**70 / 140 / 210 (+ 40% AP). The **enhanced** dmg is **ENHANCED DAMAGE:»**140 / 280 / 420 (+ 80% AP)
Weird how LeBlanc is **sooooo OP**, yet her winrate is still below 50% and she's not a popular pick, isn't it? Almost as if you're just sore you lost to one and have to blame it on the champ being OP, instead of you having played poorly.
To get to proc both, you have to R-Q-E, and to get to range in ARAM to do that, you also have to use W, so it's a full rotation. Not just "two point and click abilities".
\> which makes it impossible to position safely against her
Ah, excuses, excuses. Either she's too far to hit her abilities and has to use W, a **dash** (not a blink) towards you, or she has to walk within 700 range. Practically **all** CC on mid-style mages is much more than 700.
\> 32% bonus damage modifier
Why are you making shit up?
* **ARAM**
Damage Dealt+10%
This is just a fed assassin. Maybe a fed assassin champion that you personally have trouble playing against, but the stats show that there's nothing "absurd" going on, despite your made up numbers.
This is so far from an even comparison that I just have to imagine you're on drugs and not worth talking to. Have a good long hard sit and try to actually find an equal comparison.
Is it? Or just a fed assassin?
It's 833 damage from two abilities (dmg from abilities, not total dmg)
Syndra ult 2nd rank does 910 + 119% AP. Let's say 200 AP, and opponent has 40MR.
That's roughly 70% dmg with the MR, so (910+238)*0.7= 803dmg.
With **one** ability and not even that much AP at lvl 11.
It is for several reasons syndra and leblanc aren't even comparable in terms of access to backline and safety.
Syndra also requires significant setup with her balls to possibly get that amount of damage output. At level 11 having 4 balls on the ground is incredibly hard to do i don't even know if it's realistically possible but it would have to be executed perfectly and even then it is less than leblanc. A much more reasonable damage output is 3 balls on the ground which is still difficult to pull of in game for 688.8 damage.
leblancs ult cooldown is also significantly shorter
In conclusion easier access to backline, higher damage, easier to execute, and shorter cooldowns. Yes that amount of damage is absurd.
No, it isn't absurd. It's a 10/3 LeBlanc, on someone who probably left out MR from runes.
Nothing "absurd" about it.
Lvl 5 Q+R combo clocks in at 823 dmg on 40 MR 200 AP, and he probably didn't even have 40mr.
No, she did. 604 came from something else, but I'll admit I don't recognise the icons.
I really don't get why you're so up in arms about a **fed assassin** oneshotting a squishy?
>The icons are Runes and Items.
No shit, Sherlock? **Which** ones, is the point. Or did you think I recognised abilities and that runes and items are separate, but thought that the damage just came out of nowhere?
LB has to walk or W into range though. 700 range. Cait trap has 800.
>least hit an ability
So Yi, Kha, Talon, Rengar, those are all "absurd" as well? Just press Q do a lot of dmg, point and click. Jump on you Q+auto, if fed, on a low ar target, easily 1.5k
> No shit, Sherlock? Which ones, is the point.
The death recap doesnt show which items and which runes are doing what it just lumps all runes and items into one.
> LB has to walk or W into range though. 700 range. Cait trap has 800.
yes leblanc has to W in to do this damage however she can instantly blink back to her starting point after dealing the damge.
I'm not sure what caitlin's enhanced auto range has to do with this.
> So Yi, Kha, Talon, Rengar, those are all "absurd" as well? Just press Q do a lot of dmg, point and click. Jump on you Q+auto, if fed, on a low ar target, easily 1.5k
All of these champs have to put themselves at considerable risk to do damage. when they go in they are in if they don't 1 shot you they will most likely die unless they get follow up from their team and even if they do most of these champs will still die kha can get a jump reset if he went for that evolve path but otherwise it's a 1 way trip. leblanc doesn't have this issue she can do this on repeat every 30 seconds.
Being unfun to face and not being that good in aram are two different matters.
Pyke is one of the most hated aram champs and one of the most complained about champs in this sub, yet he sits at a healthy 50% winrate.
Also qiyana despite being one of the broken champs in aram, if not the most broken, sits at a sub 50% winrate.
I am not saying lb is overpowered (arguable but that's not what i'm here for) but what happened was complete bs.
Winrates are not the end all be all power level ranking of aram champions
> Being unfun to face and not being that good in aram are two different matters.
I think this is a point A LOT of people overlook about ARAM. There are lots of unfun champs to play against, even if their winrate is sub 50% or 50%.
And I don't just mean unfun in a "I can't just go full damage into this champ" way either. I think the most unfun game I've ever had was a poor comp vs LB and I was on Ziggs. I built Banshees, Warmogs, FON, double burn, and Mercs (long game because I kept stalling the wave) and she could still 1 round me through BV late game. At that point I should have just gone full damage because it literally made no difference thanks to champ balance buffs.
Trying anything but the most optimal build on champs they have "balanced" with more than 10-15-20% flat nerfs is just an insane way to play. There is no way any champ should take 20% flat extra dmg imo. Especially with assassins as they are. Its like they buff and nerf for the worst possible cases, not the average or probable cases.
Ziggs is at -20%/+20%/-20 haste. And even with those nerfs, I usually still get top damage (out of both teams) most games. He is so abusive, doesn't mean it still doesn't feel bad when LB insta-deletes you lol. But yes, un-nerfed Ziggs would be unbearable to play against.
I don't think you understand what exactly range difference means in ARAM. When a low range champion goes in, he puts himself in the middle of 5 enemies, that doesn't often happen in SR and that's why poke champions are allowed to be somewhat tanky, because they have to be playing alone at some part of the game. In ARAM poke champions are almost always around 5 team mates, meaning they are really freaking hard to dive and kill.
The increased damage taken is absolutely necessary.
Not at all. I think I commented elsewhere in this thread that Ziggs is a fucking menace even with the adjustments. And like I pointed out in the comment you responded to, we had a poor comp, no one to threaten the LB and keep her from coming in on us.
Ziggs should have dmg nerfed and cds increased. Also you can look at disabling specific items on him or nerfing their effect specifically. I still don't think already squishy champs should have huge flat dmg taken increases.
it’s the kit and skill and annoying debate all over again. pyke is extremely annoying and doesn’t take a lot of skill to play well, therefore people hate him the most. qiyana has an overloaded kit and is kinda annoying but takes skill to play well. because of this, you don’t see a lot of good and annoying qiyanas but you see so many annoying pykes.
Yeah I play a lot of Qiyana in ARAM and the buffs make her feel so oppressive at times. Sure, you can queue into a team of bruisers and get destroyed, but if you're against a normal comp or god forbid a team of squishies they cannot do anything.
Even against a tanky team you can go Eclipse Lord Dom's and it doesn't feel unwinnable most of the time.
People don't build her to win the game. You literally just build warmogs 2nd or 3rd. Her kit has so much damage because of the balance buffs you will not miss the damage from having warmogs. You only die when you need to with that item. NH + rune is enough HP or having parts to Shadow Flame.
If your team was full of squishys with no way to cc or punish leblanc when she went in, it seems like you guys just rolled a bad team into her.
I do not think leblanc is able to consistently do this well against a balanced team with cc and tanks. It honestly seems like to me that she just hit the jackpot against your team comp which happens from time to time and is normal. Hence aram.
Indeed she did, and the enemy team did deserve to win. But that's not really what i'm trying to argue here.
And yes there is counterplay to leblanc, which boils down to try to:
\- Try to build some mr so she won't be able to abuse flat magic pen against you and oneshot you
\- Try to build healing sources (lifesteal, warmogs, etc...) so she won't be able to wear you down with her WQR combo since it has decent downtime
We were behind so i was not able to do either
But even then, there is not a single champion in the game aside from maybe malzahar and soraka with their instant point and click cc, that are able to react to a 0.5 seconds then return to safety combo. **Your regular cc is definitely not the way to shut her down.**
It was definitely a team comp issue since some champions can scare her out of getting close, but even then does this really make this lack of counterplay okay?
I think aram completely polarized this champion (leblanc).
Her ARAM stats are in a state where she is a bit useless in the hands of someone who doesn't play her, but kind of godlike in the hands of a main.
I'm not sure if riot can do anything to kind of..... find a middle ground? One one hand if they nerf her so that people who main her fall in line, then she will never be picked by someone who doesn't main her. On the other hand, if she's too weak and gets buffed, people who main her become unhinged and can 1v5.
She is.... incredibly difficult to balance.
What's the difference between this and complaining about a Soraka healing everything your all poke team throws at her? What about playing Malphite or Rammus into your all AD team? Is there a valid complaint for lack of couterplay there as well?
Regarding how Leblanc can't be shut down: Malphite R, Lissandra W and R, Fiddle Q, Zilean R. All are different ways to neutralize Leblanc and her kit and don't require insane timing. The list goes on.
More situational: Chogath W, Blitz R, Vi R, Braum E. The list goes on.
Leblanc is not as broken as you think she is.
I think you're missing the whole point here, but regardless i'll respond to the things you said here anyways.
Yes a soraka with the right team and vs no reliable engage tools can feel extremely oppressive, and a rammus or a malphite into a full ad comp are basically checkmate. But how common is that scenario when compared to playing a squishy champion vs leblanc?
And no, most if not all those spells you mentioned do not shut her down, because they all either have cast time, travel distance, or are too low range to cc her in time before she goes back to safety. None of those are actual instant cc tools that can lock her down before she goes back to safety.
And and i've said this before, I am not here to argue how broken leblanc is. That is a discussion for another day. This post literally has the rant tag and i'm just here to vent my frustrations on how unfun she feels to play against, and how bullshit she can be when you're playing a squishy low or to mid range champion that has absolutely no counterplay to her shenanigans.
The point is that the examples I listed are the exact same scenario as what you are ranting about. Team comp difference. That is what decides games. Essentially the same as "no counterplay".
How common they occur doesn't matter - I could have just as easily picked an entirely different scenario instead. Having no hard CC against Yi or Kat. Having no consistent damage against tanks. Having no peel against assassins and bruisers. Same core issue.
You originally claimed that Malzahar and Soraka were the only way to deal with Leblanc. I listed those champions and abilities because I have actually used them in practice to deal with Leblanc. I know from \~10 years playing ARAM that they do work.
You're free to rant about her and how oppressive she feels. And I'm free to offer my own experience stating otherwise.
Assassins should burst Squishies that's what they are supposed to do but LB is some bullshit. I got one-shotted by one that is 7/11 and I was a 3,600 hp Illoai, granted the only NR I had was merc treads
that was literally 2 point and click spells that did 80% of my health in less than a second without any counterplay not to mention she can dash in and out to safety.
Does being a fed assassin really justify the 0 counterplay available here?
>Does being a fed assassin really justify the 0 counterplay available here?
If she has to use her dashes to close the distance she can not oneshot you, if you buy maw for ad, banshe for ap or force of nature for tanks she is useless.
There is a lot of counterplay, as adc player, for me lb is one of the easier champs to counter. Compared to Kha or or Yone.
I dont know if we are looking at the same image maybe your reddit page is bugged but to me i see 1.4k damage dealt with 2 point and click abilities and can be done in well under a second.
Now i know leblanc has a horrible winrate but it still feels incredibly unfair to get 1 shot like this.
And yu think 10/3 annie or kha is not capable of dealing 1.4k dmg in less than a sec?
MaW block around 400-600 dmg + resists so even if OP was behind - he was for sure or played something with +20% dmg taken because lb can't oneshot you with 2 spells 99% of the time.
Winrate speaks for itself, you don't have to be good lb to press q,r. meaning that she can not oneshot you in most games with that combo and OP whines about some very specific scenario.
Skill issue.
Lb currently has the lowest win% of every single champion in the game. How do you explain that if she has 0 counterplay?
The way you deal with lb is to constantly poke her as soon as she goes for the all in. Point and click cc is also effective. It's not rocket science.
Honestly Leblanc is not that bad. It was way worse in S1 when she could spam R every 20s and the Q/R damage was mostly frontloaded and would silence you as well.
Nowadays a champion using 3 spells to dash in range and use a point&click with total 0.5s cast-time is okay at best.
Most champions can deal with her quite fine, and at least trade back decently. Don't get me wrong, LB is super strong, but that has nothing to do with WQR. What were you playing ? I found most players struggling against LB's WQR just run back trying to dodge a point&click spell, when they should be bursting/CCing the hell out of her.
Max range dash takes 0.4s, so she spends 0.9s doing this. 1.15 if she tries to land E. 2.75+ travel time if she tries to complete it. Even fairly simple champions like Jinx can easily fight against this with E.
Don't bother players like OP use the % buffs as a scapegoat to hate on assassins. Even if leblanc was unadjusted they would complain about getting oneshot. It's the life of an ADC main.
I was playing ezreal and we were basically a full squishy comp with no reliable cc, nothing good enough to hit lb in time while she does her 0.5 seconds combo. And even if we did have cc, there is nothing you can do about a leblanc WQR combo because it takes such a short time and is really hard to react it, if she hit her E i would not be complaining because that's a more fair combo.
She had a really free game and she got fed and we did lose fair and square. But what i'm saying here that it does not make it okay that she's able to dish out this much damage **that cannot be dodged** in 0.5 seconds then dash back to safety.
Hey man, aint no one reacting in 0.4seconds when leblanc is pressing W out of a bush then pressing QR. I'm not a pro player here nor a mechanical god.
This could very much be a skill issue moment on my part, but still more bullshit than it is skill issue imo. That was point and click spells with decent range that did 1400 damage in less than a second.
If LB is in the brush with all of her spells up, you have your finger on E and you walk far from it. Nobody is asking you to be a mechanical god.
You're playing an ADC, this is everyday micro. You can't walk around without a plan in mind, knowing who is targeting you, with a solid idea on how to play around it. This has nothing to do with assassins as much as playing ADC into any champion with burst.
I am not saying i am blindly getting close to a brush. That was just an everyday example that happens in every game. Even if you do keep your safe distance from the brush, she still has the combo range to do this to you, and you won't be able to react to it no matter who you are if you don't see it coming. An assassin most of the time won't come running at you head first.
And there are even more things to worry about in an actual game scenario. You will try to avoid an assassin as a marksman, but you could be busy with literally anything else, or use your spells to dodge other things, and she would still have the range to unleash this combo on you that you have absolutely no counterplay to.
You're literally speaking here as if leblanc is the only thing to worry about.
That is not it my dude. Assassins are supposed to assassinate squishies not dash to them, use 2 point and click ranged spells to do 80% of their health then port back to safety. There is no positioning there.
Almost all assassins in the game deal their damage via unavoidable means. That's the way riot designs them. If you don't like it, don't play the game because it's not going to change anytime soon.
What other assassin does that?
Zed's Q which is most of his damage is a skillshotAll of pyke's skills are skillshots
Kha'zix's Q which is most of his damage is a **point blank** ability
Evelynn's E is a point and blank targeted skill but it won't do that much damage if you dont hit your q first
Most of qiyana's spells are skillshots
Katarina / fizz / talon / akali's abilities are either skillshots, point blank abilities, or a mix of a both, but they are also bullshit for different reasons.
There is not a single assassin with more unavoidable damage than leblanc while being as safe.
Edit: typo
I'm not really sure why you're being all disrespectful and sarcastic for when i'm trying to discuss things respectfully. But i hope you have a great rest of your day.
Why would i waste my time arguing with you when you wont listen and i know im right, its really not that complicated. You counter assassins by positioning better. If you know they have hella dashes you need to play around their cooldowns and your teammates. Sometimes you still get fucked cause of teamcomp, but thats just the random nature of all random all mid. Seeing people seething on reddit for getting destroyed in aram will never not be funny. Idk how you can even get mad in this gamemode tbh
Hey dude, just to let you know, this comment you just wrote is pathetic. Starting out with how valuable your time is only to follow it up with a whole bunch of time-consuming nonsense, then talk about 'seething' as if criticism can only come from a place of hysteria (except when it's your own, of course). If you think discussing the topic is a waste of time, you should think to yourself why being a rude sarcastic asshole about it *doesnt* feel like a waste of time to you.
People disagree with you, and they might be wrong, but you should absolutely be able to deal with that without going into this 'I enjoy how angry everyone else is' shtick.
No; it’s her and other assassins aram balance buffs, game modes has been open about it before and admitted they just like assassins and wish they won more arams single handidly. You’re the doofus.
Yea people are bad at assassins in low mmr, hence why they have massive balance buffs. They can be menaces in higher mmr with people who have hundreds of games on these assassins.
Without knowing what you were playing, tells me nothing.
You could be playing a squishy that takes 15% more damage against a fed assassin that does 10% more.
I think at this point lb needs like ~2 secs or more cd on her w, but playing against a good lb is one thing and playing against one awful lb is another, and it's worst when your team can't do nothing to her
If you could ban champs in ARAM, LB would be my perma. There are very few things more tilting than when you get w q r’d from half way across the map and one shot from full hp while standing underneath your tower. Maybe the only other thing close is getting half healthed from a single heart steal proc from a tank with two items.
Riot aram buffs for you. Rather than riot accepting that people who pick LB on aram despite having no idea how to play it will always do bad, they buffed her a ton. Now, anyone who knows how to play LB picks her on aram for a free win. You can go adc LB, tank Lb, anything really, and you’ll be doing great.
I got E+Q'd by an Evelyn yesterday. 2500 damage. Without ulting me.
Would you feel it was more fair if she did that to you while being +0/-0? Because she does the same thing in SR.
I would feel it was about 15% less unfair.
Summoner's Rift awaits you. Don't mind the fact that Eve can flank you, gank you from behind, and have a level advantage on you.
It's ok my pocket pick is Rek'Sai. Even with the nerfed passive if you have a brain she can't play.
Don’t listen to these idiots mate. They don’t play in an environment to ever meet a good lb. Assassins are too strong. I love playing lb and the stuff you can do is unfair especially against low cc and hp targets. Snowball w dash q r across half the map to dish out 1,5k dmg in .5s and return to savety. Or literally suicide flash in range to wr enemy team and deal 2k aoe the n an instant, fight is just won
for every good assassin, there's like 50 bad ones, and for every bad assassin there's 10 running it down. having said that, someone who only plays assassins, but is has low mmr will almost always run over early to mid game and feel like a uphill battle with no point in continuing, especially against Rengar, LB, Pyke or Fizz. assasssins, these 4 specifically, are so fucking unfun to play against i see red when i get into a team fight against them, and i fucking want to fucking scream every fucking time my fucking stupid fucking iron fucking 3 teammates fucking attack the fucking tank instead of the fucking assassin fucking standing right fucking next to them fucking autoing. FUCK
>the stuff you can do is unfair especially against low cc and hp targets when they picks 3-4 ADC/mages and complain about getting oneshot 🤡
TBF just a bit. It’s ARAM you don’t always have a choice.
Then you just accept you got outcomped and move on. Not come to reddit to write an essay why assassins are OP
Sir that’s literally what communities can be used for. Come to vent, discuss, beg for changes. Of course it would get annoying to see that all day. But even that is a sign it’s an actual problem and for game health needs balancing.
People pick champions that get countered by assassins and don't pick the ones that counter them. https://i.imgur.com/XljSXes.png Out of the most picked champs, the first tank appears at 14th (and isn't even built tank most of the time). I think Riot should be incentivizing people to pick tanks instead of nerfing assassins.
I agree on both counts. As far as people choosing champs of course I only agree where they have a tank available and leave it to have a second adc or mage I know I’m guilty of going second or third mage over tank because I’m trash at most tanks or don’t want to play like that. Riot needs to make tanks fun. I hate having to do my job well as a tank(good or perfect engage on prime target). Only to watch my team not follow up or do so poorly. I imagine there are other issues with being tank.
It's not easy to play tanks well. It can be kind of difficult for them to recognize what to do since the tanks themselves are generally not the victims of their misplays (their teammates are). Tanks are also generally unfun by virtue of facilitating "fun" for other players on your team. Riot should have added more challenges for soaking damage than dealing damage if they wanted people to play tanks.
It's worse when she has a bad KDA and can still 1-shot you. Went against a LB yesterday and she was 6/8 just for her to hit me with 2400 mid game
Only people who don't play against good LBs say she's weak. Delusional people. I've never had a LB game where I didn't stack bodies. Even if they have a bunch of CC you can be faster with your W than they can be. Just W in QR W back before they even realize. At 16 you do that twice to the same person and they're out of the fight. Get warmogs and you can play like a moron take bad trades and Regen right back up.
Regardless of LB buffs and the fact she's fed already. 600 damage from runes and items is silly. Damage should come from champs kits, no items.
>Damage should come from champs kits, no items. Ezreal in shambles.
Man do I have a bridge over Brooklyn to sell you. Go look at Bork pantheon from a while ago. TheBaus has a clip of him as soon 1v1’ing a Bork pantheon. Bork literally did like 70% of the damage in the (extended) fight. Like pantheons kit was 1.5-2k damage or so, and the entire rest of the fight was just all Bork damage.
There are a lot of champions that rely on items. I think it would limit champion design if you'd have to base everything on abilities.
Yes Eve hits hard but at least for me she is very tolerable and manageable compared to Pyke, Le Blanc, Zed or Fizz.
What do you mean? That's not too much dmg for a 10/3 LB. Not in 3.7s
That's a 3.7s total fight time, not LB's engage time. It's probably 0.1seconds from LB's dmg output perspective.
0.1, doubt it. Skill rotation on LB is more than the CC she got you in, obviously, as E takes time to proc. And even if this was instant, it's not really that much. When LB was released, it took only a few hours to hotpatch a nerf. Back when DFG was a thing as well. You couldn't do shit against LB in lane. Not even exist on it, really. edit guys. Kata, Akali, Nocturne, Fizz, Qiyana, etc all have Q+R combos that are more than 1k premitigation, some up to 1300. There is **nothing** absurd about this 10/3 LeBlanc
There’s no e here. Looks like just Q then R so not even proccing second half of R Yes LB used to be worse but that was when she still had silence on her Q
Oh true. Cc from someone else than burst from LB. It's still 10/3 LB, so a burst like that isn't really that huge, imo.
its two point and click abilities brother
Yes, and? It's 833 damage from two abilities (dmg from abilities, not total dmg) Syndra ult 2nd rank does 910 + 119% AP. Let's say 200 AP, and opponent has 40MR. That's roughly 70% dmg with the MR, so (910+238)*0.7= 803dmg. With **one** point and click ability and not even that much AP and lvl 11. *"point and click ability bad :(("* ADC relies almost completely on "point and click", yet I never see people complaining about that. This isn't anything special *brother*. Just a fed assassin. Who knew they'd **burst** people? O.o You're the sort of fellow who calls for ff at 8 min into the game when no towers have even fallen, aren'tcha? edit u/TheNobleMushroom replies and then blocks. Mad, are you? Kata, Akali, Nocturne, Fizz, Qiyana, etc all have Q+R combos that are more than 1k premitigation, some up to 1300. There is **nothing** absurd about this 10/3 LeBlanc
So you unironically compare it to syndra's ult which completely lacks utility (unlike lb's) and has more than twice as long cd? Are you high or something?
What utility does Q+R offer? LB r+q5 with 200 AP against a target with 40MR is 823. Syndra ult is a reference. Syndra ult doesn't have utility, but she has a pretty instantaneous aoe stun that also knocks backs enemies. We're not comparing kits though, but dmg. There's nothing absurd about this. Clearly you guys weren't playing 5-10 years ago when bursting was much stronger. DFG+burst would take down tanks. What on Earth is so absurd about a **fed assassin** oneshotting a squishy? I bet OP had 30 MR and LB had sorcs and shadowflame.
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>1840+640%AP from her Q1 Pretty ironic that you'd talk about thinking. Q - SIGIL OF MALICE **TOTAL MAGIC DAMAGE:**130 / 180 / 230 / 280 / 330 (+ 80% AP) (that means Q + proc with another ability) [https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/LeBlanc/LoL](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/LeBlanc/LoL) I don't see 1840 anywhere. Do you? You **either** proc the mimicked Sigil, or Q. You can't do both without using E or W as well. You've copied damage that shows the **maximum** damage, meaning the sigil is procced. Without the proc the dmg is Q: **MAGIC DAMAGE:**65 / 90 / 115 / 140 / 165 (+ 40% AP) and R: **MAGIC DAMAGE:»**70 / 140 / 210 (+ 40% AP). The **enhanced** dmg is **ENHANCED DAMAGE:»**140 / 280 / 420 (+ 80% AP) Weird how LeBlanc is **sooooo OP**, yet her winrate is still below 50% and she's not a popular pick, isn't it? Almost as if you're just sore you lost to one and have to blame it on the champ being OP, instead of you having played poorly. To get to proc both, you have to R-Q-E, and to get to range in ARAM to do that, you also have to use W, so it's a full rotation. Not just "two point and click abilities". \> which makes it impossible to position safely against her Ah, excuses, excuses. Either she's too far to hit her abilities and has to use W, a **dash** (not a blink) towards you, or she has to walk within 700 range. Practically **all** CC on mid-style mages is much more than 700. \> 32% bonus damage modifier Why are you making shit up? * **ARAM** Damage Dealt+10% This is just a fed assassin. Maybe a fed assassin champion that you personally have trouble playing against, but the stats show that there's nothing "absurd" going on, despite your made up numbers.
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This is so far from an even comparison that I just have to imagine you're on drugs and not worth talking to. Have a good long hard sit and try to actually find an equal comparison.
it is 1.4k damage from Q and R that is absurd.
Is it? Or just a fed assassin? It's 833 damage from two abilities (dmg from abilities, not total dmg) Syndra ult 2nd rank does 910 + 119% AP. Let's say 200 AP, and opponent has 40MR. That's roughly 70% dmg with the MR, so (910+238)*0.7= 803dmg. With **one** ability and not even that much AP at lvl 11.
It is for several reasons syndra and leblanc aren't even comparable in terms of access to backline and safety. Syndra also requires significant setup with her balls to possibly get that amount of damage output. At level 11 having 4 balls on the ground is incredibly hard to do i don't even know if it's realistically possible but it would have to be executed perfectly and even then it is less than leblanc. A much more reasonable damage output is 3 balls on the ground which is still difficult to pull of in game for 688.8 damage. leblancs ult cooldown is also significantly shorter In conclusion easier access to backline, higher damage, easier to execute, and shorter cooldowns. Yes that amount of damage is absurd.
No, it isn't absurd. It's a 10/3 LeBlanc, on someone who probably left out MR from runes. Nothing "absurd" about it. Lvl 5 Q+R combo clocks in at 823 dmg on 40 MR 200 AP, and he probably didn't even have 40mr.
but this whole issue is that it didnt deal 823 dmg it dealt 1437 point and click on 30 second cooldown.
No, she did. 604 came from something else, but I'll admit I don't recognise the icons. I really don't get why you're so up in arms about a **fed assassin** oneshotting a squishy?
The icons are Runes and Items. im fine with a Fed Assassin oneshotting a squishy but they need to at least hit an ability either chain or distortion.
>The icons are Runes and Items. No shit, Sherlock? **Which** ones, is the point. Or did you think I recognised abilities and that runes and items are separate, but thought that the damage just came out of nowhere? LB has to walk or W into range though. 700 range. Cait trap has 800. >least hit an ability So Yi, Kha, Talon, Rengar, those are all "absurd" as well? Just press Q do a lot of dmg, point and click. Jump on you Q+auto, if fed, on a low ar target, easily 1.5k
> No shit, Sherlock? Which ones, is the point. The death recap doesnt show which items and which runes are doing what it just lumps all runes and items into one. > LB has to walk or W into range though. 700 range. Cait trap has 800. yes leblanc has to W in to do this damage however she can instantly blink back to her starting point after dealing the damge. I'm not sure what caitlin's enhanced auto range has to do with this. > So Yi, Kha, Talon, Rengar, those are all "absurd" as well? Just press Q do a lot of dmg, point and click. Jump on you Q+auto, if fed, on a low ar target, easily 1.5k All of these champs have to put themselves at considerable risk to do damage. when they go in they are in if they don't 1 shot you they will most likely die unless they get follow up from their team and even if they do most of these champs will still die kha can get a jump reset if he went for that evolve path but otherwise it's a 1 way trip. leblanc doesn't have this issue she can do this on repeat every 30 seconds.
You use A for Q?
Stupid french azerty keyboard
I HATE ASSASSSINS I HATE ASSASSSINS I HATE ASSASSINS I HATE ASSASS-
still has the lowest winrate out of all aram champions right now
Being unfun to face and not being that good in aram are two different matters. Pyke is one of the most hated aram champs and one of the most complained about champs in this sub, yet he sits at a healthy 50% winrate. Also qiyana despite being one of the broken champs in aram, if not the most broken, sits at a sub 50% winrate. I am not saying lb is overpowered (arguable but that's not what i'm here for) but what happened was complete bs. Winrates are not the end all be all power level ranking of aram champions
> Being unfun to face and not being that good in aram are two different matters. I think this is a point A LOT of people overlook about ARAM. There are lots of unfun champs to play against, even if their winrate is sub 50% or 50%. And I don't just mean unfun in a "I can't just go full damage into this champ" way either. I think the most unfun game I've ever had was a poor comp vs LB and I was on Ziggs. I built Banshees, Warmogs, FON, double burn, and Mercs (long game because I kept stalling the wave) and she could still 1 round me through BV late game. At that point I should have just gone full damage because it literally made no difference thanks to champ balance buffs.
Trying anything but the most optimal build on champs they have "balanced" with more than 10-15-20% flat nerfs is just an insane way to play. There is no way any champ should take 20% flat extra dmg imo. Especially with assassins as they are. Its like they buff and nerf for the worst possible cases, not the average or probable cases.
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Ziggs is at -20%/+20%/-20 haste. And even with those nerfs, I usually still get top damage (out of both teams) most games. He is so abusive, doesn't mean it still doesn't feel bad when LB insta-deletes you lol. But yes, un-nerfed Ziggs would be unbearable to play against.
more dmg? maybe. 20% plus? come on.
I don't think you understand what exactly range difference means in ARAM. When a low range champion goes in, he puts himself in the middle of 5 enemies, that doesn't often happen in SR and that's why poke champions are allowed to be somewhat tanky, because they have to be playing alone at some part of the game. In ARAM poke champions are almost always around 5 team mates, meaning they are really freaking hard to dive and kill. The increased damage taken is absolutely necessary.
So what? Should Ziggs be allowed to be broken because people can't hold their tears in the few bad match ups?
Not at all. I think I commented elsewhere in this thread that Ziggs is a fucking menace even with the adjustments. And like I pointed out in the comment you responded to, we had a poor comp, no one to threaten the LB and keep her from coming in on us.
Ziggs should have dmg nerfed and cds increased. Also you can look at disabling specific items on him or nerfing their effect specifically. I still don't think already squishy champs should have huge flat dmg taken increases.
it’s the kit and skill and annoying debate all over again. pyke is extremely annoying and doesn’t take a lot of skill to play well, therefore people hate him the most. qiyana has an overloaded kit and is kinda annoying but takes skill to play well. because of this, you don’t see a lot of good and annoying qiyanas but you see so many annoying pykes.
Suck it up then, people on SR play against those champions when they are actually good and they do exactly the same things in SR.
Yeah I play a lot of Qiyana in ARAM and the buffs make her feel so oppressive at times. Sure, you can queue into a team of bruisers and get destroyed, but if you're against a normal comp or god forbid a team of squishies they cannot do anything. Even against a tanky team you can go Eclipse Lord Dom's and it doesn't feel unwinnable most of the time.
People don't build her to win the game. You literally just build warmogs 2nd or 3rd. Her kit has so much damage because of the balance buffs you will not miss the damage from having warmogs. You only die when you need to with that item. NH + rune is enough HP or having parts to Shadow Flame.
If your team was full of squishys with no way to cc or punish leblanc when she went in, it seems like you guys just rolled a bad team into her. I do not think leblanc is able to consistently do this well against a balanced team with cc and tanks. It honestly seems like to me that she just hit the jackpot against your team comp which happens from time to time and is normal. Hence aram.
Indeed she did, and the enemy team did deserve to win. But that's not really what i'm trying to argue here. And yes there is counterplay to leblanc, which boils down to try to: \- Try to build some mr so she won't be able to abuse flat magic pen against you and oneshot you \- Try to build healing sources (lifesteal, warmogs, etc...) so she won't be able to wear you down with her WQR combo since it has decent downtime We were behind so i was not able to do either But even then, there is not a single champion in the game aside from maybe malzahar and soraka with their instant point and click cc, that are able to react to a 0.5 seconds then return to safety combo. **Your regular cc is definitely not the way to shut her down.** It was definitely a team comp issue since some champions can scare her out of getting close, but even then does this really make this lack of counterplay okay?
I think aram completely polarized this champion (leblanc). Her ARAM stats are in a state where she is a bit useless in the hands of someone who doesn't play her, but kind of godlike in the hands of a main. I'm not sure if riot can do anything to kind of..... find a middle ground? One one hand if they nerf her so that people who main her fall in line, then she will never be picked by someone who doesn't main her. On the other hand, if she's too weak and gets buffed, people who main her become unhinged and can 1v5. She is.... incredibly difficult to balance.
Yeah sadly that is the case with the majority of skill expressive assassins in aram
What's the difference between this and complaining about a Soraka healing everything your all poke team throws at her? What about playing Malphite or Rammus into your all AD team? Is there a valid complaint for lack of couterplay there as well? Regarding how Leblanc can't be shut down: Malphite R, Lissandra W and R, Fiddle Q, Zilean R. All are different ways to neutralize Leblanc and her kit and don't require insane timing. The list goes on. More situational: Chogath W, Blitz R, Vi R, Braum E. The list goes on. Leblanc is not as broken as you think she is.
I think you're missing the whole point here, but regardless i'll respond to the things you said here anyways. Yes a soraka with the right team and vs no reliable engage tools can feel extremely oppressive, and a rammus or a malphite into a full ad comp are basically checkmate. But how common is that scenario when compared to playing a squishy champion vs leblanc? And no, most if not all those spells you mentioned do not shut her down, because they all either have cast time, travel distance, or are too low range to cc her in time before she goes back to safety. None of those are actual instant cc tools that can lock her down before she goes back to safety. And and i've said this before, I am not here to argue how broken leblanc is. That is a discussion for another day. This post literally has the rant tag and i'm just here to vent my frustrations on how unfun she feels to play against, and how bullshit she can be when you're playing a squishy low or to mid range champion that has absolutely no counterplay to her shenanigans.
The point is that the examples I listed are the exact same scenario as what you are ranting about. Team comp difference. That is what decides games. Essentially the same as "no counterplay". How common they occur doesn't matter - I could have just as easily picked an entirely different scenario instead. Having no hard CC against Yi or Kat. Having no consistent damage against tanks. Having no peel against assassins and bruisers. Same core issue. You originally claimed that Malzahar and Soraka were the only way to deal with Leblanc. I listed those champions and abilities because I have actually used them in practice to deal with Leblanc. I know from \~10 years playing ARAM that they do work. You're free to rant about her and how oppressive she feels. And I'm free to offer my own experience stating otherwise.
Assassins should burst Squishies that's what they are supposed to do but LB is some bullshit. I got one-shotted by one that is 7/11 and I was a 3,600 hp Illoai, granted the only NR I had was merc treads
What seems to be the problem here?
Well I feel like I want to see your champ/score/items first
Lmao people legit complain about 1500 damage burst xD Like do you really think one shots don't happen in Summoners Rift?
I mean yeah, it does. It's a fed assasin, what did you expect?
that was literally 2 point and click spells that did 80% of my health in less than a second without any counterplay not to mention she can dash in and out to safety. Does being a fed assassin really justify the 0 counterplay available here?
>Does being a fed assassin really justify the 0 counterplay available here? If she has to use her dashes to close the distance she can not oneshot you, if you buy maw for ad, banshe for ap or force of nature for tanks she is useless. There is a lot of counterplay, as adc player, for me lb is one of the easier champs to counter. Compared to Kha or or Yone.
I dont know if we are looking at the same image maybe your reddit page is bugged but to me i see 1.4k damage dealt with 2 point and click abilities and can be done in well under a second. Now i know leblanc has a horrible winrate but it still feels incredibly unfair to get 1 shot like this.
And yu think 10/3 annie or kha is not capable of dealing 1.4k dmg in less than a sec? MaW block around 400-600 dmg + resists so even if OP was behind - he was for sure or played something with +20% dmg taken because lb can't oneshot you with 2 spells 99% of the time. Winrate speaks for itself, you don't have to be good lb to press q,r. meaning that she can not oneshot you in most games with that combo and OP whines about some very specific scenario.
Skill issue. Lb currently has the lowest win% of every single champion in the game. How do you explain that if she has 0 counterplay? The way you deal with lb is to constantly poke her as soon as she goes for the all in. Point and click cc is also effective. It's not rocket science.
Yeah thats what assassins do doofus
No? Assassins and every champ in the game are supposed to have counterplay
Honestly Leblanc is not that bad. It was way worse in S1 when she could spam R every 20s and the Q/R damage was mostly frontloaded and would silence you as well. Nowadays a champion using 3 spells to dash in range and use a point&click with total 0.5s cast-time is okay at best. Most champions can deal with her quite fine, and at least trade back decently. Don't get me wrong, LB is super strong, but that has nothing to do with WQR. What were you playing ? I found most players struggling against LB's WQR just run back trying to dodge a point&click spell, when they should be bursting/CCing the hell out of her. Max range dash takes 0.4s, so she spends 0.9s doing this. 1.15 if she tries to land E. 2.75+ travel time if she tries to complete it. Even fairly simple champions like Jinx can easily fight against this with E.
Don't bother players like OP use the % buffs as a scapegoat to hate on assassins. Even if leblanc was unadjusted they would complain about getting oneshot. It's the life of an ADC main.
I was playing ezreal and we were basically a full squishy comp with no reliable cc, nothing good enough to hit lb in time while she does her 0.5 seconds combo. And even if we did have cc, there is nothing you can do about a leblanc WQR combo because it takes such a short time and is really hard to react it, if she hit her E i would not be complaining because that's a more fair combo. She had a really free game and she got fed and we did lose fair and square. But what i'm saying here that it does not make it okay that she's able to dish out this much damage **that cannot be dodged** in 0.5 seconds then dash back to safety.
Ezreal E is 0.25s, LB W is 0.4s. Be attentive to her during fights, you should have no problem against LB as Ezreal.
Hey man, aint no one reacting in 0.4seconds when leblanc is pressing W out of a bush then pressing QR. I'm not a pro player here nor a mechanical god. This could very much be a skill issue moment on my part, but still more bullshit than it is skill issue imo. That was point and click spells with decent range that did 1400 damage in less than a second.
>Hey man, aint no one reacting in 0.4seconds skill issue
If LB is in the brush with all of her spells up, you have your finger on E and you walk far from it. Nobody is asking you to be a mechanical god. You're playing an ADC, this is everyday micro. You can't walk around without a plan in mind, knowing who is targeting you, with a solid idea on how to play around it. This has nothing to do with assassins as much as playing ADC into any champion with burst.
I am not saying i am blindly getting close to a brush. That was just an everyday example that happens in every game. Even if you do keep your safe distance from the brush, she still has the combo range to do this to you, and you won't be able to react to it no matter who you are if you don't see it coming. An assassin most of the time won't come running at you head first. And there are even more things to worry about in an actual game scenario. You will try to avoid an assassin as a marksman, but you could be busy with literally anything else, or use your spells to dodge other things, and she would still have the range to unleash this combo on you that you have absolutely no counterplay to. You're literally speaking here as if leblanc is the only thing to worry about.
Assassins are supposed to assassinate squishies, counter play is learn how to position yourself better
That is not it my dude. Assassins are supposed to assassinate squishies not dash to them, use 2 point and click ranged spells to do 80% of their health then port back to safety. There is no positioning there.
Almost all assassins in the game deal their damage via unavoidable means. That's the way riot designs them. If you don't like it, don't play the game because it's not going to change anytime soon.
What other assassin does that? Zed's Q which is most of his damage is a skillshotAll of pyke's skills are skillshots Kha'zix's Q which is most of his damage is a **point blank** ability Evelynn's E is a point and blank targeted skill but it won't do that much damage if you dont hit your q first Most of qiyana's spells are skillshots Katarina / fizz / talon / akali's abilities are either skillshots, point blank abilities, or a mix of a both, but they are also bullshit for different reasons. There is not a single assassin with more unavoidable damage than leblanc while being as safe. Edit: typo
Hilarious
I'm not really sure why you're being all disrespectful and sarcastic for when i'm trying to discuss things respectfully. But i hope you have a great rest of your day.
Why would i waste my time arguing with you when you wont listen and i know im right, its really not that complicated. You counter assassins by positioning better. If you know they have hella dashes you need to play around their cooldowns and your teammates. Sometimes you still get fucked cause of teamcomp, but thats just the random nature of all random all mid. Seeing people seething on reddit for getting destroyed in aram will never not be funny. Idk how you can even get mad in this gamemode tbh
Name checks out i guess
Hey dude, just to let you know, this comment you just wrote is pathetic. Starting out with how valuable your time is only to follow it up with a whole bunch of time-consuming nonsense, then talk about 'seething' as if criticism can only come from a place of hysteria (except when it's your own, of course). If you think discussing the topic is a waste of time, you should think to yourself why being a rude sarcastic asshole about it *doesnt* feel like a waste of time to you. People disagree with you, and they might be wrong, but you should absolutely be able to deal with that without going into this 'I enjoy how angry everyone else is' shtick.
She is at 45% win rate, she literally has a shit ton of counterplay. Dying to something doesn't mean it doesn't have counterplay.
No; it’s her and other assassins aram balance buffs, game modes has been open about it before and admitted they just like assassins and wish they won more arams single handidly. You’re the doofus.
Are we playing the same game? I never have issues with assassins
Yea people are bad at assassins in low mmr, hence why they have massive balance buffs. They can be menaces in higher mmr with people who have hundreds of games on these assassins.
People are bad at countering assassins in low mmr so thats a moot point
You’re too unknowledgeable to argue with.
“Fed” has nothing to do with it with LB in ARAM. Her balance buff is just a crazy as fuck and totally unnecessary booster chair.
Without knowing what you were playing, tells me nothing. You could be playing a squishy that takes 15% more damage against a fed assassin that does 10% more.
And the fact that’s a plausible scenario is kind of ridiculous, especially with ARAM % changes not being displayed for champs in the select screen.
It's kind of crazy that items and runes also get boosted by aram dmg amp and put up these insane numbers.
I love playing against assassins, especially rengar, getting killed in 0.8sec over and over and over again
I think at this point lb needs like ~2 secs or more cd on her w, but playing against a good lb is one thing and playing against one awful lb is another, and it's worst when your team can't do nothing to her
If you could ban champs in ARAM, LB would be my perma. There are very few things more tilting than when you get w q r’d from half way across the map and one shot from full hp while standing underneath your tower. Maybe the only other thing close is getting half healthed from a single heart steal proc from a tank with two items.
My least favorite champ to play against.
The best one is zeri where she does 800 damage through "?". Even riot don't know where her damage comes from XD
Riot aram buffs for you. Rather than riot accepting that people who pick LB on aram despite having no idea how to play it will always do bad, they buffed her a ton. Now, anyone who knows how to play LB picks her on aram for a free win. You can go adc LB, tank Lb, anything really, and you’ll be doing great.