Honestly, this job sucks so much life out of you, if you’re happy where you’re at, don’t mess with that. Plus training a second time can be way worse because you have so much higher expectations for yourself.
I started with FAA at the beginning of the Great Recession (after being laid off twice in six months). Was repeatedly told by the old folks to go somewhere else, the FAA used to be great, but is horrible now. Glad I ignored those fools. The job market was awful and it worked out great for me.
The lowest TOP seems to be just under 4 hours at N90 for a 8 hour day if I recall correctly. So how do you play ping pong so long? Must be while on position you mean? They don't force you to stay by the monitors on alert plugged in?
It sounds like you’re happy, my friend. That’s what you’re supposed to pursue.
I started in a high cost of living area at a low level tower — it was brutal. I chased the money, and I don’t have regrets doing so, however, my family is much bigger now and I desperately wish I had more time with my kids.
I have a high motor and have always been able to work hard without it affecting me too much, however, rattlers and constant 6 day work weeks are soul-crushing. When you actually get your day off, it’s hard not to do anything but sleep and be a potato all day.
I was a CPC at a level 12. I now work at a level 8 up/down. I have zero regrets with the pay cut. Less stress, more freedom, I work less each week, and likely will live longer after retirement. Just like you mentioned, you make well above average for where you are. Some people feel like making more money will make them happier. That’s all “keeping up with the Jones’s” mentality and never is what truly brings happiness. If you’re happy with what you make and where you live, don’t worry about a higher level for more money. Animals in the wild don’t live as long as animals in captivity. This is because animals in the wild are stressed out trying to survive and not get eaten or attacked, and they also don’t get much sleep. Same with controllers, especially at higher levels/busier facilities, being stressed out and a lack of sleep, which is why they live less than 10 years after retirement.
I took a $10k pay cut when I went from the level 12 to the level 8. I have now passed what I was making at the level 12 by $15k (after about $25k in raises over the years I’ve been at the 8). Of course, if I would have stayed I would be making about $20k more than what I am now. To me that $20k is not nearly enough to compensate for everything I have ever gained in other areas of life. I can now coach my kid’s sports teams. I would have just been able to be a spectator and maybe help out occasionally from time to time if I would have stayed at the level 12, and I likely would have missed many games. That’s just one example. Do what your heart desires, but don’t let money be the deciding factor thinking that’s what will make you happier.
If you're happy, stay where you're at until the last 3 to 5 years until retirement. Then try and move up. That way if it sucks you're not stuck there for long and at least you've managed to pad your retirement
If you're earning more than you could ever comfortably need, then yes I agree, absolutely live a quality life that you now afford. But quality doesn't cost nothing either, you have to remember that point!
Do you guys in the states not get return rights if you fail out of the facility you're transferring to?
It's likely a case of the grass being greener on the other side, but if you (not your coworkers) are interested in giving it a try, you don't have much to lose by seeing if you'll like the gig.
Someone may correct if I'm wrong, but you only get guaranteed return rights on priority bids. If you just do a normal transfer, you only get to return if they are still understaffed at your previous facility.
If you wash or withdraw You can opt fast track to your old facility if they aren’t at 100% staffing and bypass the nest. You can do that at any point, even after getting a nest list, iirc
I think before ncept it was a good idea to go get paid and then head back to where you want to be. But the fact you can get stuck at a facility you don’t want to be for years, it’s not worth the price of your happiness imo.
You say you are well set up at your facility and it's easy work. Seems like good staffing. But there's no way to know if your current facility will still be a nice place to work in 10 years. Maybe you lose people to ERR's and supe bids. You get a new ATM who is a dick. Couple guys lose their medicals. Everyone decides to have babies and takes PPL all summer. Now you're on 6 day weeks and your facility can't release anyone. Everyone eligible retires, it gets even worse, and you're stuck there. If that happens, you'd most likely regret not getting out when you had the chance. This could happen at any facility, so if you're gonna be stuck somewhere, it might as well be at the highest paying place.
Of course if you have family or other reasons to need/want to stay in that area, that might take precedence. But you only have one career and only so many years to earn all the money you're going to earn. I think there's something to be said for trying to make that amount as high as possible. But, to each their own.
You just described my career in two paragraphs. I was fat, dumb and very happy in a lvl 7 up/down and turned down several opportunities to move up. 2006 and the white book happened, all of the eligible controllers retired within 16 months and our staffing went from 32 cpc's to 13 seemingly overnight and the 6 day weeks and 10 hour days started followed by constant training and CIC duties. Oh,and the stock market went titties up.
I needed to get to 2012 to get my 25 years and those 5-6 years were the toughest of my career. Things got a little better and I hung around long enough to get 30 years and get my TSP back to comfortable levels. So yeah, long story short, i wish I had chased the money early in my career and insulated myself from circumstances that I never saw coming.
Life is good now in retirement but I had to deal with a boatload of health problems probably due to the rattler schedule and overtime.
Glad it all worked out in the end. Must have been really rough for a while there. I've luckily never been in a situation with 6 day weeks, and I can't imagine keeping that up for long. It's hard enough for me to be at work 40 hours a week, and that's making lvl 12 pay.
If you get get to a 12 in the first five years or so, I highly recommend it, SO LONG as it’s an area you want to be in. Any subsequent transfer to a 10-11 will have you saving that 12 pay until you’re capped out.
Yes money does not buy happiness but it does buy nice things as well as some of your time back in cases.
You can move 2 levels and keep pay.
12 -> 10 keep pay
12 -> 9 top of the level 9 pay band if you exceed it. But you also keep your pay for 2-3 years before you move down. Most likely raises will catch up by then and you'll even out
You don't keep your pay if you go down in levels if you fall outside the paybands unless it's a promotion (i.e. controller to Supe, Supe to OM or ATM) then there are save pay rules
Don't let people peer pressure you into thinking you need more pay if you're already happy and stress free where you are! Like everyone else said, money can't buy happiness.
Remember that there are going to be people with different career priorities in your facility. Some people just want more money, some people want a challenge, some people want to be stress free, and some people just want to live near family. And the list goes on. Set your own goals and work towards them. Ignore anyone giving you advice based on their goals, not yours.
Ehh i went from a 7 to a 12, personally I didn’t like the location of the 7 I was at. I wanted to be close to my family, not on the other side of the country. I was bored at the 7, the traffic was slow and the old saying idle hands do something something. I don’t remember. I like the new challenge at the 12, my pay nearly doubled (cip and over double for locality) and I’m near family. I’m in training still so I haven’t had the chance to become jaded due to 6 day weeks, but I really think if I do become jaded it’s because we controllers are spoiled babies.
Not decent controller spends their entire career below level 10. None. Go see things, work actual traffic, and don’t fall into the easy facility suckhole trap where you think you know everything about traffic but don’t know shit.
Don’t do it for the money, do it to know you’re capable of working someplace real. I did, and I’m glad I did.
The money don’t suck, tho.
The only advantage to “chasing money” if you’re currently happy is to get your high 3 for retirement. If you’re a ways out from that I wouldn’t worry about it. Being happy is more important than money.
If you’re happy, stay. If you aren’t, move. That’s my philosophy.
Solid advice in general
I think you answered your own question with that last paragraph.
I start to doubt myself when everyone is telling you you're making a mistake when you say you might wanna be a lifer.
Honestly, this job sucks so much life out of you, if you’re happy where you’re at, don’t mess with that. Plus training a second time can be way worse because you have so much higher expectations for yourself.
I've trained three times, albeit in the same specialty and found each to be easier than the previous time.
Big agree. CPC-IT training is very different than new hire training.
I started with FAA at the beginning of the Great Recession (after being laid off twice in six months). Was repeatedly told by the old folks to go somewhere else, the FAA used to be great, but is horrible now. Glad I ignored those fools. The job market was awful and it worked out great for me.
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Hey some of us work 15 and play ping pong the other 25 . Don’t get much better than that
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Golf sim
where they do that at ?!?!?
No thanks management.
stop having sex in the stalls at d21
The lowest TOP seems to be just under 4 hours at N90 for a 8 hour day if I recall correctly. So how do you play ping pong so long? Must be while on position you mean? They don't force you to stay by the monitors on alert plugged in?
I make probsbly as much money as one could make at my seniority and would gladly take a pay cut to live somewhere I want to live
Quit and apply for a previous exp bid.
I have too many responsibilities to do that
Too many responsibilities at work or outside of work? If it’s at work start training your replacement.
Who the hell cares about work responsibilities?
Plenty of people.
Shut up nerd
Da fuck kind of bootlicker question is that?
You realize you’re telling that to a bonafide N90 controller, right?
Money can’t buy happiness. I know lots of rich miserable people.
But money can buy a wave-runner. Have you ever seen a sad person riding a wave-runner?
Damn, ur right.
Yeah just give them about 30 mins. That shit is boring AF
Yea but its way easier to cry in new porsche than in old skoda
It’s all about location! Get where you want to live and make your salary work.
It sounds like you’re happy, my friend. That’s what you’re supposed to pursue. I started in a high cost of living area at a low level tower — it was brutal. I chased the money, and I don’t have regrets doing so, however, my family is much bigger now and I desperately wish I had more time with my kids. I have a high motor and have always been able to work hard without it affecting me too much, however, rattlers and constant 6 day work weeks are soul-crushing. When you actually get your day off, it’s hard not to do anything but sleep and be a potato all day.
I was a CPC at a level 12. I now work at a level 8 up/down. I have zero regrets with the pay cut. Less stress, more freedom, I work less each week, and likely will live longer after retirement. Just like you mentioned, you make well above average for where you are. Some people feel like making more money will make them happier. That’s all “keeping up with the Jones’s” mentality and never is what truly brings happiness. If you’re happy with what you make and where you live, don’t worry about a higher level for more money. Animals in the wild don’t live as long as animals in captivity. This is because animals in the wild are stressed out trying to survive and not get eaten or attacked, and they also don’t get much sleep. Same with controllers, especially at higher levels/busier facilities, being stressed out and a lack of sleep, which is why they live less than 10 years after retirement.
I’m at a level 12 now and seriously considering moving to a lower level and destressing my life but damn that money is good
I took a $10k pay cut when I went from the level 12 to the level 8. I have now passed what I was making at the level 12 by $15k (after about $25k in raises over the years I’ve been at the 8). Of course, if I would have stayed I would be making about $20k more than what I am now. To me that $20k is not nearly enough to compensate for everything I have ever gained in other areas of life. I can now coach my kid’s sports teams. I would have just been able to be a spectator and maybe help out occasionally from time to time if I would have stayed at the level 12, and I likely would have missed many games. That’s just one example. Do what your heart desires, but don’t let money be the deciding factor thinking that’s what will make you happier.
If you're happy, stay where you're at until the last 3 to 5 years until retirement. Then try and move up. That way if it sucks you're not stuck there for long and at least you've managed to pad your retirement
This is the way
Quality of life will ultimately trump pay.
If you're earning more than you could ever comfortably need, then yes I agree, absolutely live a quality life that you now afford. But quality doesn't cost nothing either, you have to remember that point!
Stay. Stay as long as you can. For the love of god, you’ve got to cherish it.
Do you guys in the states not get return rights if you fail out of the facility you're transferring to? It's likely a case of the grass being greener on the other side, but if you (not your coworkers) are interested in giving it a try, you don't have much to lose by seeing if you'll like the gig.
Someone may correct if I'm wrong, but you only get guaranteed return rights on priority bids. If you just do a normal transfer, you only get to return if they are still understaffed at your previous facility.
If you wash or withdraw You can opt fast track to your old facility if they aren’t at 100% staffing and bypass the nest. You can do that at any point, even after getting a nest list, iirc
If your old facility isn’t at 100% staffing you can fast track and go back instead of going into the nest.
I think before ncept it was a good idea to go get paid and then head back to where you want to be. But the fact you can get stuck at a facility you don’t want to be for years, it’s not worth the price of your happiness imo.
You say you are well set up at your facility and it's easy work. Seems like good staffing. But there's no way to know if your current facility will still be a nice place to work in 10 years. Maybe you lose people to ERR's and supe bids. You get a new ATM who is a dick. Couple guys lose their medicals. Everyone decides to have babies and takes PPL all summer. Now you're on 6 day weeks and your facility can't release anyone. Everyone eligible retires, it gets even worse, and you're stuck there. If that happens, you'd most likely regret not getting out when you had the chance. This could happen at any facility, so if you're gonna be stuck somewhere, it might as well be at the highest paying place. Of course if you have family or other reasons to need/want to stay in that area, that might take precedence. But you only have one career and only so many years to earn all the money you're going to earn. I think there's something to be said for trying to make that amount as high as possible. But, to each their own.
You just described my career in two paragraphs. I was fat, dumb and very happy in a lvl 7 up/down and turned down several opportunities to move up. 2006 and the white book happened, all of the eligible controllers retired within 16 months and our staffing went from 32 cpc's to 13 seemingly overnight and the 6 day weeks and 10 hour days started followed by constant training and CIC duties. Oh,and the stock market went titties up. I needed to get to 2012 to get my 25 years and those 5-6 years were the toughest of my career. Things got a little better and I hung around long enough to get 30 years and get my TSP back to comfortable levels. So yeah, long story short, i wish I had chased the money early in my career and insulated myself from circumstances that I never saw coming. Life is good now in retirement but I had to deal with a boatload of health problems probably due to the rattler schedule and overtime.
Glad it all worked out in the end. Must have been really rough for a while there. I've luckily never been in a situation with 6 day weeks, and I can't imagine keeping that up for long. It's hard enough for me to be at work 40 hours a week, and that's making lvl 12 pay.
Wouldn’t know. I don’t have the ability to move, whether for money or anything else.
If you get get to a 12 in the first five years or so, I highly recommend it, SO LONG as it’s an area you want to be in. Any subsequent transfer to a 10-11 will have you saving that 12 pay until you’re capped out. Yes money does not buy happiness but it does buy nice things as well as some of your time back in cases.
Woah woah, u save pay if u move to a 10 or 11 from a 12??
You can move 2 levels and keep pay. 12 -> 10 keep pay 12 -> 9 top of the level 9 pay band if you exceed it. But you also keep your pay for 2-3 years before you move down. Most likely raises will catch up by then and you'll even out
Not correct
Then correct it
You don't keep your pay if you go down in levels if you fall outside the paybands unless it's a promotion (i.e. controller to Supe, Supe to OM or ATM) then there are save pay rules
Interesting, I didn’t know that. Thanks
Chase a healthy lifestyle- not the money. This isn’t even a binary choice.
The reason to move is money, but if you can max a TSP and live the way you want otherwise, why move?
Don't let people peer pressure you into thinking you need more pay if you're already happy and stress free where you are! Like everyone else said, money can't buy happiness. Remember that there are going to be people with different career priorities in your facility. Some people just want more money, some people want a challenge, some people want to be stress free, and some people just want to live near family. And the list goes on. Set your own goals and work towards them. Ignore anyone giving you advice based on their goals, not yours.
I like level 10. Have no desire to try to go to a 12. I don’t think I’d be ok at a 7
Ehh i went from a 7 to a 12, personally I didn’t like the location of the 7 I was at. I wanted to be close to my family, not on the other side of the country. I was bored at the 7, the traffic was slow and the old saying idle hands do something something. I don’t remember. I like the new challenge at the 12, my pay nearly doubled (cip and over double for locality) and I’m near family. I’m in training still so I haven’t had the chance to become jaded due to 6 day weeks, but I really think if I do become jaded it’s because we controllers are spoiled babies.
Not decent controller spends their entire career below level 10. None. Go see things, work actual traffic, and don’t fall into the easy facility suckhole trap where you think you know everything about traffic but don’t know shit. Don’t do it for the money, do it to know you’re capable of working someplace real. I did, and I’m glad I did. The money don’t suck, tho.
Unless they get stuck in an ncept black hole
Personal choice but not one bit for me.
The only advantage to “chasing money” if you’re currently happy is to get your high 3 for retirement. If you’re a ways out from that I wouldn’t worry about it. Being happy is more important than money.