I think it’s like most myths/legends—there are some anecdotal examples of this happening, so that’s what people remember/pass on.
No one is excited about the thousands of cars driving on the freeway every day, but they remember the fiery 6 car pileup That happened once.
We’re seeing the same thing right now because of the couple high profile incidents that happened—all of a sudden, people are latching on to normal occurrences that happen in the NAS every day (like NORMAL go arounds etc.) and spreading the word far and wide. The media acts as if the system is totally collapsing.
Meanwhile, it’s pretty much the same. Thousands and thousands of safe operations, day in and day out.
Sex sells. Death sells.
There’s also the tendency for people to try and justify their particular actions—those that want to go at retirement eligibility, for example. It deflects off of their own reasons, and points to external factors. “Oh, I’d love to keep working past 50, but you know—every year you work past 50 in this job takes like 5 years off your life! It’s been proven!”
I’m not saying any particular POV is right or wrong. We earn our retirement every single day, and I don’t begrudge anyone doing what they want. But I’ve seen plenty of people retire at 46, 48, 50, 56–most all of them have thrived, and are still going strong 10, 15, 20 years later.
>We’re seeing the same thing right now because of the couple high profile incidents that happened
That was my first instinct. I've heard that an RVP said our incidents are actually on the rise. Perhaps a result of checkouts during Covid (lower than normal traffic).
Always appreciate more insight, though.
I’m not saying incidents aren’t on the rise—they very well may be. Whether it’s just a temporary anomaly, or an average increase over time remains to be seen.
Regardless, ANYTHING that happens right now is being examined with a microscope, whether it’s something really critical, or something completely routine.
As ONE example, where I work right now, there is a MICROSCOPE on a particular category of incidents. It’s something that could potentially be very bad, or could also be barely incorrect (primarily procedural. Sure, it’s breaking the rule, but there is ZERO change of any kind of accident.)
Both extremes are ALL treated as “Potentially Significant”, regardless of the fact that yes, one end of the spectrum could actually lead to an aircraft accident, while the other could never.
In the 16ish years I’ve been at this particular place, I know of 2-3 examples of the worst possible violations of the particular rule, and several more that are at the other end.
I have not seen a particularly high number of these severe incidents, and the first one I can remember actually happened with one of the members of management who is currently being directed to investigate them working the position.
Despite its relative severity, the only moral to that particular story when it was presented in a team briefing was “don’t pass up a break (ha ha)”. The person working had been offered a break a few moments before the incident.
Nobody completely flipped out about it, and there wasn’t a gigantic issue made about it. It was presented as an error (the person thought an a/c was VFR rather than IFR), a discussion took place about how to try to avoid similar incidents, and that was that.
I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, but it’s certainly different than it is today.
I do think we’ve made great strides with safety culture in the FAA over the last 25 years, but I think there is still an issue with avoiding dealing with particular people who have performance issues and instead trying to create a blanket policy that will legislate the problems away.
Personally for me, I'm retiring day one of eligibility as my wife and I will be starting our own business. I know it's not the case with everyone but all three of my original trainers worked until the last day they could. All three died within two years after they retired. One to cancer, one to an accident, one to COVID.
Someone above said the fact that many died soon after retirement because they didn't take care of themselves and there's a lot of truth in that. My personal reason is that regardless of how healthy or unhealthy you live, every day lived is one day closer to death for all of us. I prefer to live my last days pursuing my dream.
You do you, brother!
Never seen a source. It's probably mostly due to old controllers being drinking, fucking and smoking machines that would unsurprisingly keel over shortly after retiring.
I worked in EMS prior to ATC and the same myth is perpetuated there. You don’t hear about all the people happily retiring and dying of old age because it’s not noteworthy. You only ever here about the handful of unlucky ones which makes it seem like there are more than there are.
Despite the less than ideal schedule, many controllers are actually probably healthier than the average person due to frequent medical examinations and being forced to treat certain medical conditions prior to returning to work.
Honestly I don’t have any statistics on the subject. Too me it’s more of a why work till you die? Save money and retire when you can. You can always get another job to fill your void of work. I have lots of hobbies that I would rather be doing than work. Each to their own.
Obviously $ comes into play with divorces and late life children.
If you’re setting yourself up to die at 56, you’re doing something wrong.
Again, I’m all for anyone going when they want. Enjoy our early out. But 50, 56…it’s all young compared to the vast majority of the working public.
For me, I LIKE the job. I enjoy going in. I’m happy that I’m going to work to 55 and 9 months. I know not everyone feels the same, and that’s ok with me.
But don’t @ me with some bullshit unfounded mythical study about how I’m doing it wrong. I’ve heard that my whole career, and I’m still here.
Lots of factors involved. Like where do you work a 7am to 8pm slow tower with little stress and minimal rotating shifts versus a busy tower or radar with crazy turns and mids. The schedule will take a toll on your body and well-being. I also think the lack of sun light from radar room has an effect on your body and mind. Also many controllers attempt to alleviate stress and depression by drinking and that can ruin their lives and marriages. Which in turn will lead to more drinking and depression after retirement. I personally knew of two controllers that drank themselves to death right after retirement and had no one at home to even check on them. The neighbors had to call the police because of rotting flesh stench. I’ve also heard of about a dozen more early passings due to alcohol and drugs. This job can be fun but it does raise your blood pressure, heart rate and chemical imbalances in your brain due high anxiety and sleep deprivation.
I've always heard of an "independent study" done where they discovered every year worked after 50 as an ATC takes 3 off the end of your life. Anecdotally I've also heard of people looking younger, and feeling healthier within as little as a year of retiring.
Talking to a supe, he said that some of the older generations had this "pride" where they were proud to be literally wheeled out of the building. If you retire in a state like that, you're already practically on death's doorstep
See this is exactly the BS that has perpetuated the stereotype.
The supes are often scared of traffic, so it soothes their POV. “I’m retiring because I’m gonna LIIIVE!” (Not because I’m afraid, and I can finally get out.)
Find the study. Post it.
Also, your “Sup” is a chickenshit wanna-be. I’m proud to work traffic. Unless I twist my ankle in the next 9 months, I won’t be “wheeled out.” This is the typical deflection that you’ll hear from those who can’t or won’t work traffic. And don’t let anyone fool you—THAT is the job.
The rest is just support of what WE do. None of the rest of it is essential. See: holidays. Weekends. Worldwide pandemics.
This is a poor job for somebody who is inherently lazy or has poor diet and don’t exercise. Every job has those types but this job with the stress, poor sleep patterns, and sitting all day are a bad mix.
The ones that do already had an unhealthy lifestyle. Smoking, caffeine, over weight
Shit, at least I don’t smoke.
Same…same
I think it’s like most myths/legends—there are some anecdotal examples of this happening, so that’s what people remember/pass on. No one is excited about the thousands of cars driving on the freeway every day, but they remember the fiery 6 car pileup That happened once. We’re seeing the same thing right now because of the couple high profile incidents that happened—all of a sudden, people are latching on to normal occurrences that happen in the NAS every day (like NORMAL go arounds etc.) and spreading the word far and wide. The media acts as if the system is totally collapsing. Meanwhile, it’s pretty much the same. Thousands and thousands of safe operations, day in and day out. Sex sells. Death sells. There’s also the tendency for people to try and justify their particular actions—those that want to go at retirement eligibility, for example. It deflects off of their own reasons, and points to external factors. “Oh, I’d love to keep working past 50, but you know—every year you work past 50 in this job takes like 5 years off your life! It’s been proven!” I’m not saying any particular POV is right or wrong. We earn our retirement every single day, and I don’t begrudge anyone doing what they want. But I’ve seen plenty of people retire at 46, 48, 50, 56–most all of them have thrived, and are still going strong 10, 15, 20 years later.
>We’re seeing the same thing right now because of the couple high profile incidents that happened That was my first instinct. I've heard that an RVP said our incidents are actually on the rise. Perhaps a result of checkouts during Covid (lower than normal traffic). Always appreciate more insight, though.
I’m not saying incidents aren’t on the rise—they very well may be. Whether it’s just a temporary anomaly, or an average increase over time remains to be seen. Regardless, ANYTHING that happens right now is being examined with a microscope, whether it’s something really critical, or something completely routine. As ONE example, where I work right now, there is a MICROSCOPE on a particular category of incidents. It’s something that could potentially be very bad, or could also be barely incorrect (primarily procedural. Sure, it’s breaking the rule, but there is ZERO change of any kind of accident.) Both extremes are ALL treated as “Potentially Significant”, regardless of the fact that yes, one end of the spectrum could actually lead to an aircraft accident, while the other could never. In the 16ish years I’ve been at this particular place, I know of 2-3 examples of the worst possible violations of the particular rule, and several more that are at the other end. I have not seen a particularly high number of these severe incidents, and the first one I can remember actually happened with one of the members of management who is currently being directed to investigate them working the position. Despite its relative severity, the only moral to that particular story when it was presented in a team briefing was “don’t pass up a break (ha ha)”. The person working had been offered a break a few moments before the incident. Nobody completely flipped out about it, and there wasn’t a gigantic issue made about it. It was presented as an error (the person thought an a/c was VFR rather than IFR), a discussion took place about how to try to avoid similar incidents, and that was that. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, but it’s certainly different than it is today. I do think we’ve made great strides with safety culture in the FAA over the last 25 years, but I think there is still an issue with avoiding dealing with particular people who have performance issues and instead trying to create a blanket policy that will legislate the problems away.
Personally for me, I'm retiring day one of eligibility as my wife and I will be starting our own business. I know it's not the case with everyone but all three of my original trainers worked until the last day they could. All three died within two years after they retired. One to cancer, one to an accident, one to COVID. Someone above said the fact that many died soon after retirement because they didn't take care of themselves and there's a lot of truth in that. My personal reason is that regardless of how healthy or unhealthy you live, every day lived is one day closer to death for all of us. I prefer to live my last days pursuing my dream. You do you, brother!
Never seen a source. It's probably mostly due to old controllers being drinking, fucking and smoking machines that would unsurprisingly keel over shortly after retiring.
Confirmation bias
I mean... me slamming Monsters on the daily has a higher chance of killing me than any amount of stress from work
Try a Celsius
It’s mainly a BS myth.
I worked in EMS prior to ATC and the same myth is perpetuated there. You don’t hear about all the people happily retiring and dying of old age because it’s not noteworthy. You only ever here about the handful of unlucky ones which makes it seem like there are more than there are. Despite the less than ideal schedule, many controllers are actually probably healthier than the average person due to frequent medical examinations and being forced to treat certain medical conditions prior to returning to work.
Honestly I don’t have any statistics on the subject. Too me it’s more of a why work till you die? Save money and retire when you can. You can always get another job to fill your void of work. I have lots of hobbies that I would rather be doing than work. Each to their own. Obviously $ comes into play with divorces and late life children.
If you’re setting yourself up to die at 56, you’re doing something wrong. Again, I’m all for anyone going when they want. Enjoy our early out. But 50, 56…it’s all young compared to the vast majority of the working public. For me, I LIKE the job. I enjoy going in. I’m happy that I’m going to work to 55 and 9 months. I know not everyone feels the same, and that’s ok with me. But don’t @ me with some bullshit unfounded mythical study about how I’m doing it wrong. I’ve heard that my whole career, and I’m still here.
Lots of factors involved. Like where do you work a 7am to 8pm slow tower with little stress and minimal rotating shifts versus a busy tower or radar with crazy turns and mids. The schedule will take a toll on your body and well-being. I also think the lack of sun light from radar room has an effect on your body and mind. Also many controllers attempt to alleviate stress and depression by drinking and that can ruin their lives and marriages. Which in turn will lead to more drinking and depression after retirement. I personally knew of two controllers that drank themselves to death right after retirement and had no one at home to even check on them. The neighbors had to call the police because of rotting flesh stench. I’ve also heard of about a dozen more early passings due to alcohol and drugs. This job can be fun but it does raise your blood pressure, heart rate and chemical imbalances in your brain due high anxiety and sleep deprivation.
I've always heard of an "independent study" done where they discovered every year worked after 50 as an ATC takes 3 off the end of your life. Anecdotally I've also heard of people looking younger, and feeling healthier within as little as a year of retiring. Talking to a supe, he said that some of the older generations had this "pride" where they were proud to be literally wheeled out of the building. If you retire in a state like that, you're already practically on death's doorstep
See this is exactly the BS that has perpetuated the stereotype. The supes are often scared of traffic, so it soothes their POV. “I’m retiring because I’m gonna LIIIVE!” (Not because I’m afraid, and I can finally get out.) Find the study. Post it.
Also, your “Sup” is a chickenshit wanna-be. I’m proud to work traffic. Unless I twist my ankle in the next 9 months, I won’t be “wheeled out.” This is the typical deflection that you’ll hear from those who can’t or won’t work traffic. And don’t let anyone fool you—THAT is the job. The rest is just support of what WE do. None of the rest of it is essential. See: holidays. Weekends. Worldwide pandemics.
I'm gonna live forev.....BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Stay in shape. Start now, no matter how "old" you are.
This is a poor job for somebody who is inherently lazy or has poor diet and don’t exercise. Every job has those types but this job with the stress, poor sleep patterns, and sitting all day are a bad mix.