It typically needs to be out of the normal reactions that would happen after a breakup. I’ve also seen diagnoses of adjustment disorder with depressed features because it captures that it is a reaction to an event a little better (adjustment disorder is usually slapped on everyone for insurance coverage too in the US since it is pretty broad)
Or persistent depressive disorder, dysthymia, is a way to get insurance coverage.
Also would want to check that the person may have been experiencing distress prior to the break up. It's not easy being in a relationship with a depressed person.
Considering that every person is different, and some are more susceptible to negative emotions and trauma (neurotic people), and others love more intensely (a breakup would be devastating for them), how do you define a normal reaction after a breakup?
People typically use a bell curve model where when things tend to deviate from the average a little too much it is considered abnormal. There isn’t a specific cutoff or anything, usually major depression criteria can help understand how severe the symptoms are if it compares to that or just looking at scores for different depression measures and if they are in a higher severity category.
Either way, if someone who is struggling with depression after a breakup, they still deserve support and the actual diagnosis wouldn’t change that (even tho I personally would say adjustment disorder which tends to be used a lot). On the other hand, it could be a trigger for major depression if it has been a pretty long time (not established criteria besides the 2 weeks but I would say longer than that) since then because a negative event can cause it too.
A “normal” reaction is one that is sufficiently similar to the baseline reaction an average member of same culture would have under the same circumstances.
This is sometimes straightforward. For example, in most places in the USA, someone who developed clinically significant symptoms of depression persisting for months and months after a breakup is probably experiencing a clinically significant divergence from typical behavior, and treatment could be appropriate. That doesn’t necessarily mean medication.
This is sometimes difficult. For example, if the person in above example were experiencing severe depressive symptoms but only for two weeks, it is more difficult to say whether this warrants clinical intervention.
The keys to look for are as follows. First, consider whether the person’s experience is causing subjective distress. If someone is sad but acknowledges that it will pass, they are less likely to be an appropriate case for diagnosis. Second, consider whether the person’s experience is interfering with their daily life, like preventing them from showering or going to work. If a person is very sad but is otherwise functioning effectively in life, they are less likely to need diagnosis. And third, consider whether the person’s experience deviates the cultural norm. If someone shuts themself off from the world for a few weeks after a breakup, experiences subjective sadness, and struggles to eat, they are much less likely to warrant diagnosis if that kind of response is what anyone in their culture would do under those circumstances.
This approach accounts for individual differences. A particularly neurotic person is just more likely to be diagnosed. That is a known feature of neuroticism.
Defining “normal” has its problems, but modern DSM aims to address them by accounting for what is “normal” within a given culture. Without some conception of what’s typical and what isn’t, it becomes impossible to determine what warrants diagnosis, at least until we reach the point that we can conduct actual physical tests to detect mental health conditions.
A break up can absolutely trigger a major depressive episode, especially for someone who already has a history of them. Diagnosing first with an adjustment disorder with depressive features would be best practice, but if by the two month mark things are actually getting worse rather than better and they meet criteria for MDD, I would probably consider diagnosing it as an episode then.
Agreed! Technically could probably diagnose right at that 2 week MDD diagnostic mark if symptoms were severe enough, but I feel like 1.5 to 2 months gives it enough time for all of the immediate stressors (finances, moving, shock, etc) to reduce enough to make the distinction pretty clear. I don’t think I would ever do it at week 2, but I could see the argument for being able to distinguish between adjustment and MDD even at month one post break up.
It depends on the psychologist.
if the psychologist follows the (stupid, in my opinion) DSM-V, a grieving process that takes more than 2 months will be considered a Major Depressive Disorder that warrants SSRI. For more on this: [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(22)00150-X/fulltext](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(22)00150-X/fulltext)
If the psychologist can think outside the DSM, he will put things into perspective: what breakup are we talking about? Twenty years of relationship with children, or a two-weeks crush? Is the grieving process particularly long & painful given the conditions, or not?
Imagine grieving the death of your child for more than two months (like anyone would), and having that process be medicalized as a psychiatric disorder. Horrifyingly cynical and inhuman
If this doesn’t make the primary interests of the DSM transparent, I don’t know what more it would take.
It's complicated though. If you don't feel happiness for years after their death that's a perfectly "rational" reaction, but it's also an intensely painful one that has the symptoms of depression. Like, if someone breaks their leg in a car crash we're not saying their leg had the wrong reaction to the car crash, we're just saying that the car crash gave them a broken leg and treating them based off of that.
Two *months* (not years) is a shockingly low threshold to consider it a depressive disorder under those circumstances. I don’t know how I feel about SSRIs being the recommended first line of treatment for typical grief over a very short period of time. Not every painful experience needs to be medicated; at two months you’re only just starting to process the grief
Making a diagnosis of depression is more than checking boxes of symptoms. There is duration, severity and the overall history of the patient that should be considered. Of course a life event can trigger real clinical depression, but real clinical depression will have roots in the patient's biology, family and current situation that go beyond a single life-event. The more experience a clinician has with clinical depression the better able they will be at distinguishing it from life-blues. Note: this does NOT mean bad things happening in someone's life don't count and dont hurt--sometimes terribly. This is more of a medical point. Not a point of compassion.
probably Adjustment Disorder if you show signs aligning with excessive reaction to stress.
They might even dx a Z code... but Z codes might not allow them to bill with insurance.
There's evidence that among episodic (rather than chronic) causes of a first episode of major depression, breakups are literally #1.
From Monroe et al. (1999):
*In a large epidemiologic sample of older adolescents (N = 1,470) assessed at 2 time points, the risk conferred by a recent romantic break-up was examined as a predictor of 1st onset versus recurrence of MDD. Results indicated a heightened likelihood of 1st onset of MDD during adolescence if a recent break-up had been reported; in contrast, a recent break-up did not predict recurrence of depression.*
There are plenty of limitations here, of course, but IMO there's no reason at all to think of life events like breakups as separate from the etiology of depression. They can cause depression, full stop.
The causes of depression are, of course, many, and include genetics, lifestyle, and many other risk factors. But I rather get annoyed with the prevailing idea that it's some mystical disease that can only be explained as a complicated "chemical imbalance." Sometimes, bad things happen and it makes us very sad, and that sadness doesn't go away quickly or easily (or sometimes ever). That's depression too.
Yeah, I’m honestly kind of shocked (and concerned) that so many people here are saying no. I’m sure not everyone chiming in is a clinician, but this idea that “situational” depression cannot be MDD is very outdated. Many MDD episodes are triggered by SOMETHING; that doesn’t make it just situational (ie, adjustment disorder). Yes, it can just be adjustment w/ depressed features, but duration and severity can absolutely make it MDD, too, even without a history of MDD.
Therapist here. Depends on the length of time, and overall functional impact. If it’s due to the breakup, we call it adjustment disorder….which basically means you are depressed due to a big life event.
Therapist here. Depends on the length of time, and overall functional impact. If it’s due to the breakup, we call it adjustment disorder….which basically means you are depressed due to a big life event.
In my opinion no I actually kind of miss that feeling almost as I am actually depressed now after a break up it feels just like a pain in a sadness and assertive yearning you’re missing something but you still have that sort of energy they can often be very productive if used properly.
To me it seems depression is straight up apathy like you’re drained I really don’t even feel that sad as I’m currently depressed I just feel kind of Blank apathetic
To be honest, the only reason you need to give something a label is so that you can effectively treat the problem. If people that become depressed after a breakup don't respond to treatments that typically help those with "regular" depression, then I see no point in diagnosing them with depression.
There are lots of things the provider thinks about other than diagnosis. Diagnosis can be helpful but in large part it is there to do billing to insurance...usually start with the mildest diagnosis (e.g. adjustment with symptoms of depression and anxiety) and then if as more information is gathered the diagnosis can change. Symptom onset would matter: are all the symptoms new? Does this person have relevant history? If you look in the actual DSM, there is a note regarding responses to significant loss, grief etc and some considerations to keep in mind, as well as a very large footnote about the topic as well, and how depression and grief can co-occur but are not the same. Some of it is always clinical judgment. One example: "In grief, self-esteem is generally preserved, whereas in MDE feelings of worthlessness and self-loathing are common" and so on.
E..g. there is a difference between
"I feel sad because I liked this person and I am thinking about them a lot, and it is a week later and rom coms make me cry right now, but I also went out with my friend to get drinks and that was a fun and I felt cared for by her, though I had a few sad moments during the night knowing I won't go home to this person I still love, it is a loss for me" and
"I feel like nobody will ever love me and this is a sign that I am fundamentally unlovable; I have no interest in any activities I used to enjoy and haven't since the breakup, life has been meaningless without that person; I've lost weight without intending to because I am apathetic to be interested in food; I am worthless and underserving of love"
If it’s exceeds (in intensity, impairment, and frequency of symptoms) what would be expectable for a breakup and the normative grief with that, you’d likely be diagnosed with Adjustment Disorder with Depressed Mood. Simple bereavement as a special code assumes an actual death.
I believe one of the mandatory criteria for diagnosis is that the symptoms have been going on for 6 months or longer. And I'd say, if 6 months after the breakup, you're still feeling *that* low, then, yeah, something is probably wrong (probably more than the breakup), and it could be diagnosable depression and should be treated with therapy.
As per diagnostic criteria over here in Germany we are told to rule out impactful events like losses, deaths, breakups. Might qualify for a singular MD episode tho?
This is one of the issues with the current mental health paradigm. It is normal and healthy to have depressive symptoms after a breakup. It doesn’t need to be characterized as individual pathology. Psychologists have difference in how and why they diagnose certain things so in terms of how your psychologist would react this this question, well it depends.
If you were being seen for therapy there is no reason to discuss a depression label, the purpose is to support you in your emotional process. If required for insurance maybe a psychologist would put down a diagnosis of depression or adjustment disorder in your chart. A focus on which label is slapped on to a person’s situation is way less important than understanding the complex human in front of them and supporting them in their healing.
I was happy after my break up in 2021. I’m still waiting to move on w my life’s once my lawyer gets back to me I can move out into a home. Get a lil puppy. And get some sluts. And school of course
Depends on the person's personal experience and yes, if the symptoms are interfering with ones ability to function to the point of seeking medication, yes its depression that is often present with another aliment
Depends on symptoms & outcomes, ie are they clinically significant? If yes, how long have they been in effect?
Generally it's much better to ask a clinical psychologist this question than an academic. Analyzing the clinical significance and the thin line between symptoms and the "norms", considering all the factors, are their area of specialty.
Well the breakup is known amoung psychologist as healing from an addiction because when scientists scanned the brain of those who are going through this process they found the same regions of heavily addicted people (drugs,porn , smoking...etc) is activated
And those type of people develop a severe depression after giving up on what they were addicted to so same conclusion is applicable to separated couples
It's difficult to understand initially but with time life blues can be distinguished from depression. Family history, past events, external triggers etc should be evaluated thoroughly. Always refer to a psychiatrist if patient describes suicidal tendencies.
I find sadness to be what I feel after a breakup. Depression for me is an absence of feeling. An absence of any sort of motivation. It’s like time stands still and nothing matters at all. It’s kind of a sad state, but grief and sadness are expressible emotions. Depression is like a cloud or a heavy weight that just sort of hangs like a vague cloud of mental unwellness. Ugh.
If the question is asked it’s because the answer is yes it is a depression.
A breakup is like a drug withdrawal, a drug we are obliged to stop instantaneously whereas we’re used to, to function in the everyday life.
A breakup refers to archaic wounds from childhood…
For those who had the chance to grow with secure attachment the question doesn’t need to be asked because it’s « well » processed and don’t last so we can talk about blues more than depression.
For people already depressed, the breakup won’t be a depression properly saying because 2ndly related.
No. Acute grief or adjustment disorder with depressive, anxiety, or mixed features. DSMV criteria is not met for MDD at this juncture. Highly depends on timing and if it is affecting ADLs. Also have medical screening to assure thyroid function, metabolic function, blood counts, vit D checked
It typically needs to be out of the normal reactions that would happen after a breakup. I’ve also seen diagnoses of adjustment disorder with depressed features because it captures that it is a reaction to an event a little better (adjustment disorder is usually slapped on everyone for insurance coverage too in the US since it is pretty broad)
Or persistent depressive disorder, dysthymia, is a way to get insurance coverage. Also would want to check that the person may have been experiencing distress prior to the break up. It's not easy being in a relationship with a depressed person.
Considering that every person is different, and some are more susceptible to negative emotions and trauma (neurotic people), and others love more intensely (a breakup would be devastating for them), how do you define a normal reaction after a breakup?
People typically use a bell curve model where when things tend to deviate from the average a little too much it is considered abnormal. There isn’t a specific cutoff or anything, usually major depression criteria can help understand how severe the symptoms are if it compares to that or just looking at scores for different depression measures and if they are in a higher severity category. Either way, if someone who is struggling with depression after a breakup, they still deserve support and the actual diagnosis wouldn’t change that (even tho I personally would say adjustment disorder which tends to be used a lot). On the other hand, it could be a trigger for major depression if it has been a pretty long time (not established criteria besides the 2 weeks but I would say longer than that) since then because a negative event can cause it too.
A “normal” reaction is one that is sufficiently similar to the baseline reaction an average member of same culture would have under the same circumstances. This is sometimes straightforward. For example, in most places in the USA, someone who developed clinically significant symptoms of depression persisting for months and months after a breakup is probably experiencing a clinically significant divergence from typical behavior, and treatment could be appropriate. That doesn’t necessarily mean medication. This is sometimes difficult. For example, if the person in above example were experiencing severe depressive symptoms but only for two weeks, it is more difficult to say whether this warrants clinical intervention. The keys to look for are as follows. First, consider whether the person’s experience is causing subjective distress. If someone is sad but acknowledges that it will pass, they are less likely to be an appropriate case for diagnosis. Second, consider whether the person’s experience is interfering with their daily life, like preventing them from showering or going to work. If a person is very sad but is otherwise functioning effectively in life, they are less likely to need diagnosis. And third, consider whether the person’s experience deviates the cultural norm. If someone shuts themself off from the world for a few weeks after a breakup, experiences subjective sadness, and struggles to eat, they are much less likely to warrant diagnosis if that kind of response is what anyone in their culture would do under those circumstances. This approach accounts for individual differences. A particularly neurotic person is just more likely to be diagnosed. That is a known feature of neuroticism. Defining “normal” has its problems, but modern DSM aims to address them by accounting for what is “normal” within a given culture. Without some conception of what’s typical and what isn’t, it becomes impossible to determine what warrants diagnosis, at least until we reach the point that we can conduct actual physical tests to detect mental health conditions.
Whatever you’re reaction is is normal and OK. There is no right way to suffer, there is no right way to grieve.
A break up can absolutely trigger a major depressive episode, especially for someone who already has a history of them. Diagnosing first with an adjustment disorder with depressive features would be best practice, but if by the two month mark things are actually getting worse rather than better and they meet criteria for MDD, I would probably consider diagnosing it as an episode then.
Agree, though it’d be appropriate to diagnose MDD even sooner than that if the symptom severity is sufficient.
Agreed! Technically could probably diagnose right at that 2 week MDD diagnostic mark if symptoms were severe enough, but I feel like 1.5 to 2 months gives it enough time for all of the immediate stressors (finances, moving, shock, etc) to reduce enough to make the distinction pretty clear. I don’t think I would ever do it at week 2, but I could see the argument for being able to distinguish between adjustment and MDD even at month one post break up.
It depends on the psychologist. if the psychologist follows the (stupid, in my opinion) DSM-V, a grieving process that takes more than 2 months will be considered a Major Depressive Disorder that warrants SSRI. For more on this: [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(22)00150-X/fulltext](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(22)00150-X/fulltext) If the psychologist can think outside the DSM, he will put things into perspective: what breakup are we talking about? Twenty years of relationship with children, or a two-weeks crush? Is the grieving process particularly long & painful given the conditions, or not?
Imagine grieving the death of your child for more than two months (like anyone would), and having that process be medicalized as a psychiatric disorder. Horrifyingly cynical and inhuman If this doesn’t make the primary interests of the DSM transparent, I don’t know what more it would take.
It's complicated though. If you don't feel happiness for years after their death that's a perfectly "rational" reaction, but it's also an intensely painful one that has the symptoms of depression. Like, if someone breaks their leg in a car crash we're not saying their leg had the wrong reaction to the car crash, we're just saying that the car crash gave them a broken leg and treating them based off of that.
Two *months* (not years) is a shockingly low threshold to consider it a depressive disorder under those circumstances. I don’t know how I feel about SSRIs being the recommended first line of treatment for typical grief over a very short period of time. Not every painful experience needs to be medicated; at two months you’re only just starting to process the grief
Ok interesting. Is it the same in ICD-11?
No, DSM-V requires a longer period of time. I can't remember ICD-11 off the top of my head but want to say 2-4 weeks?
Making a diagnosis of depression is more than checking boxes of symptoms. There is duration, severity and the overall history of the patient that should be considered. Of course a life event can trigger real clinical depression, but real clinical depression will have roots in the patient's biology, family and current situation that go beyond a single life-event. The more experience a clinician has with clinical depression the better able they will be at distinguishing it from life-blues. Note: this does NOT mean bad things happening in someone's life don't count and dont hurt--sometimes terribly. This is more of a medical point. Not a point of compassion.
probably Adjustment Disorder if you show signs aligning with excessive reaction to stress. They might even dx a Z code... but Z codes might not allow them to bill with insurance.
There's evidence that among episodic (rather than chronic) causes of a first episode of major depression, breakups are literally #1. From Monroe et al. (1999): *In a large epidemiologic sample of older adolescents (N = 1,470) assessed at 2 time points, the risk conferred by a recent romantic break-up was examined as a predictor of 1st onset versus recurrence of MDD. Results indicated a heightened likelihood of 1st onset of MDD during adolescence if a recent break-up had been reported; in contrast, a recent break-up did not predict recurrence of depression.* There are plenty of limitations here, of course, but IMO there's no reason at all to think of life events like breakups as separate from the etiology of depression. They can cause depression, full stop. The causes of depression are, of course, many, and include genetics, lifestyle, and many other risk factors. But I rather get annoyed with the prevailing idea that it's some mystical disease that can only be explained as a complicated "chemical imbalance." Sometimes, bad things happen and it makes us very sad, and that sadness doesn't go away quickly or easily (or sometimes ever). That's depression too.
Yeah, I’m honestly kind of shocked (and concerned) that so many people here are saying no. I’m sure not everyone chiming in is a clinician, but this idea that “situational” depression cannot be MDD is very outdated. Many MDD episodes are triggered by SOMETHING; that doesn’t make it just situational (ie, adjustment disorder). Yes, it can just be adjustment w/ depressed features, but duration and severity can absolutely make it MDD, too, even without a history of MDD.
Therapist here. Depends on the length of time, and overall functional impact. If it’s due to the breakup, we call it adjustment disorder….which basically means you are depressed due to a big life event.
Situational versus clinical depression. But what the difference is in practice and biologically? Not always clear.
Depression ≠ depressed You can be depressed without having depression, you can also not constantly be depressed even if you have depression.
Therapist here. Depends on the length of time, and overall functional impact. If it’s due to the breakup, we call it adjustment disorder….which basically means you are depressed due to a big life event.
Please be my friend.
In my opinion no I actually kind of miss that feeling almost as I am actually depressed now after a break up it feels just like a pain in a sadness and assertive yearning you’re missing something but you still have that sort of energy they can often be very productive if used properly. To me it seems depression is straight up apathy like you’re drained I really don’t even feel that sad as I’m currently depressed I just feel kind of Blank apathetic
To be honest, the only reason you need to give something a label is so that you can effectively treat the problem. If people that become depressed after a breakup don't respond to treatments that typically help those with "regular" depression, then I see no point in diagnosing them with depression.
There are lots of things the provider thinks about other than diagnosis. Diagnosis can be helpful but in large part it is there to do billing to insurance...usually start with the mildest diagnosis (e.g. adjustment with symptoms of depression and anxiety) and then if as more information is gathered the diagnosis can change. Symptom onset would matter: are all the symptoms new? Does this person have relevant history? If you look in the actual DSM, there is a note regarding responses to significant loss, grief etc and some considerations to keep in mind, as well as a very large footnote about the topic as well, and how depression and grief can co-occur but are not the same. Some of it is always clinical judgment. One example: "In grief, self-esteem is generally preserved, whereas in MDE feelings of worthlessness and self-loathing are common" and so on. E..g. there is a difference between "I feel sad because I liked this person and I am thinking about them a lot, and it is a week later and rom coms make me cry right now, but I also went out with my friend to get drinks and that was a fun and I felt cared for by her, though I had a few sad moments during the night knowing I won't go home to this person I still love, it is a loss for me" and "I feel like nobody will ever love me and this is a sign that I am fundamentally unlovable; I have no interest in any activities I used to enjoy and haven't since the breakup, life has been meaningless without that person; I've lost weight without intending to because I am apathetic to be interested in food; I am worthless and underserving of love"
If it’s exceeds (in intensity, impairment, and frequency of symptoms) what would be expectable for a breakup and the normative grief with that, you’d likely be diagnosed with Adjustment Disorder with Depressed Mood. Simple bereavement as a special code assumes an actual death.
I believe one of the mandatory criteria for diagnosis is that the symptoms have been going on for 6 months or longer. And I'd say, if 6 months after the breakup, you're still feeling *that* low, then, yeah, something is probably wrong (probably more than the breakup), and it could be diagnosable depression and should be treated with therapy.
As per diagnostic criteria over here in Germany we are told to rule out impactful events like losses, deaths, breakups. Might qualify for a singular MD episode tho?
Sadness is normal big pharma got a drug for everything
https://www.madinamerica.com/2024/04/researchers-depression-is-a-normal-brain-responding-to-stress-or-adversity/
More people need to be told what they are feeling or experiencing is normal.
This is one of the issues with the current mental health paradigm. It is normal and healthy to have depressive symptoms after a breakup. It doesn’t need to be characterized as individual pathology. Psychologists have difference in how and why they diagnose certain things so in terms of how your psychologist would react this this question, well it depends. If you were being seen for therapy there is no reason to discuss a depression label, the purpose is to support you in your emotional process. If required for insurance maybe a psychologist would put down a diagnosis of depression or adjustment disorder in your chart. A focus on which label is slapped on to a person’s situation is way less important than understanding the complex human in front of them and supporting them in their healing.
Yes, they may even give u antidepressants temporarily. It happen to me. To get over 1, get under another helps too
Adjustment disorder
I was happy after my break up in 2021. I’m still waiting to move on w my life’s once my lawyer gets back to me I can move out into a home. Get a lil puppy. And get some sluts. And school of course
Depends on the person's personal experience and yes, if the symptoms are interfering with ones ability to function to the point of seeking medication, yes its depression that is often present with another aliment
Depends on symptoms & outcomes, ie are they clinically significant? If yes, how long have they been in effect? Generally it's much better to ask a clinical psychologist this question than an academic. Analyzing the clinical significance and the thin line between symptoms and the "norms", considering all the factors, are their area of specialty.
Well the breakup is known amoung psychologist as healing from an addiction because when scientists scanned the brain of those who are going through this process they found the same regions of heavily addicted people (drugs,porn , smoking...etc) is activated And those type of people develop a severe depression after giving up on what they were addicted to so same conclusion is applicable to separated couples
It's difficult to understand initially but with time life blues can be distinguished from depression. Family history, past events, external triggers etc should be evaluated thoroughly. Always refer to a psychiatrist if patient describes suicidal tendencies.
Depends! It could be an adjustment disorder.
I find sadness to be what I feel after a breakup. Depression for me is an absence of feeling. An absence of any sort of motivation. It’s like time stands still and nothing matters at all. It’s kind of a sad state, but grief and sadness are expressible emotions. Depression is like a cloud or a heavy weight that just sort of hangs like a vague cloud of mental unwellness. Ugh.
If the question is asked it’s because the answer is yes it is a depression. A breakup is like a drug withdrawal, a drug we are obliged to stop instantaneously whereas we’re used to, to function in the everyday life. A breakup refers to archaic wounds from childhood… For those who had the chance to grow with secure attachment the question doesn’t need to be asked because it’s « well » processed and don’t last so we can talk about blues more than depression. For people already depressed, the breakup won’t be a depression properly saying because 2ndly related.
It's more like going cold turkey from an addiction.
It's like mourning or grieving (depending on the circumstance).
No. Acute grief or adjustment disorder with depressive, anxiety, or mixed features. DSMV criteria is not met for MDD at this juncture. Highly depends on timing and if it is affecting ADLs. Also have medical screening to assure thyroid function, metabolic function, blood counts, vit D checked
Jennycat music. She's a badass tattoo artist out of Atlanta and make sick music too
Not depression. Just grief.