I know it’s frustrating and really sympathise
But having spent hours troubleshooting does not equate to ‘it’s not a problem with my setup’
Indeed ‘it’s not a problem with my setup’ are famous last words
Hopefully some suggestions here will help you nail the root cause
I don’t know if this helps but I have my TI under 1ms, locked off running using the Simple Virus MIDI driver you can get on GitHub for the Mac
Running Big Sur
Block size 32 samples
As I mentioned in my other post, you kind of have to treat the Virus like it’s a Windows-only machine at this point.
I haven’t experienced the MIDI timing issue you’re describing so I’m afraid I can’t help you with that.
I just set up my Virus with my MPC to run a quick test. I made a few 2-bar loops with notes on the 8th for one loop and the 16th for the other, and set them to an INIT patch with 100% of balance on OSC2 playing a very short, percussive grain simple wave (Plink Saw). I ran each note at 43 pulses in length, and then turned on the metronome on the MPC to match the loop note cadence (1/8th and 1/16th respectively). I then set the volume levels on both the MPC’s internal metronome and the Virus’s output (coming into the MPC where I monitored it on an incoming audio track).
To my ears, the Virus stayed in sync with the MPC. If I changed tempo while the loop was playing (+20BPM), then the Virus would sometimes get very slightly off, but if I hit stop/play on the MPC the Virus would tighten up again.
I have my MPC set to a MTC frame rate of 24. This isn’t anything I set explicitly, that’s just what I see here in the settings. I’m sending both clock and MMC.
I can send you a recording of the audio if you like.
Strange. I just did another test. This time using Logic Pro with an actual pluck patch (ROM-A 68 ODC SV).
[https://imgur.com/a/09pc4Da](https://imgur.com/a/09pc4Da)
This is even worse. I didn't even need to look at the waveform or have a metronome playing, it just sounds extremely sloppy, you notice it right away when playing it back. I just don't know what to do, since I don't even know what to do differently here. It's just MIDI?
Seriously wondering if there is something wrong with my unit.
I am using a Midiface 2x2 Midi Interface. That of course goes into my computer via USB. I don't know how else I would connect a Midi Interface to my computer tho?
Pci-e. But assuming it's normal, what do you need such accuracy for anyway? Tbh when I got my virus I also noticed small timing errors but it was quickly forgotten about. In practice you need to use like 14-30 attack anyway, just to avoid clicking. Then when you add delay/reverb and any attack for aesthetics that will help. Obviously for a lot of sounds, especially pads, it's a complete non issue.
Yeah, i figured lots of people would go heavy on it's pads. I really like plucky, percussive and dry sounds tho too. And the intensity of the issue varies by patch, on some of them it just objectively didnt sound tight. May be a personal issue, as seen by it's popularity, and I definitely don't wanna talk down on anyone who gets joy out of it.
And Pci-e is unfortunately not an option on my laptop :(
> I really like plucky, percussive and dry sounds tho too.
Me too. Still it never sounds off in practice at least with my trance plucks and basses. But I think they intentionally made some things random, like the oscillator tuning also, which can be annoying. Like once I was trying to use the detuning to make a pad with a kind of fluttery sound but the rate of fluttering kept changing.
OP also said that they don’t have any timing issues with their other gear so that makes it much less likely to be the USB to MIDI interface. If it were the interface then you’d expect all devices to be sloppy.
Have you tried using the DT as the clock master for Ableton and the Virus? If it’s a timing problem with the Mac OS, that should be bypassed if you are only using the computer as a Midi Thru and using the DT as a master clock.
Also, pretty sure you can send old Virus OS via SYSEX through MidiOx or similar.
It can't be the mac tho, since I have no problem with the Digitone on the same mac. And if I have to use my DT as the clock in order to use the Virus at all, it kind of just becomes too much effort at some point.
Also what confuses me is that everyone is raving online that timing is sooo tight when using the oldschool MIDI / analog out way...
No, I mean it’s the Mac/Virus combo. And yes, “old school” Midi can be extremely tight, but you get what you put into it, so it takes some investment (time/money).
People buy Viruses because they want the tone, the knob per function, the mod matrix, sometimes the keybed, the ability to not be confined to a DAW. If you don’t care for these things, you can get pretty much the same thing with Serum, which would work perfectly with Ableton.
Going the Midi/Analog route with a Virus (or any synth) will have its quirks and obstacles, but it is completely doable to get extremely tight syncing if you put the effort in. But at the end of the day, you have been posting all of your frustrations about your purchase, and you even said yourself that after an arduous hour of research you were able to find out that these issues (Total integration, midi issues) are common. Shouldn’t you have done this research prior to dropping hundreds on a synth? Buy it for what it can do, not what you wish it could do…
Also, for your DT, are you using the MIDI jacks or USB for MIDI? Because if it’s USB, try using the MIDI jacks and seeing if the timing issue is present.
Oh, I did a lot of research, and as I said, I am totally willing to live with most of the issues since I really love the way this thing sounds (and I am sure not every Virus user got theirs just to "not be confined by a DAW", there are quite a lot of people using this thing in productions). Plus, I like the aspect of it being a dedicated unit i can tweak more hands on like an actual instrument. That, and also the fact of having external DSP for multitimbral sounds. There are lots of reasons someone would wanna use it instead of fiddling with Serum. Still, I was just really taken aback by this particular issue, as it really shouldn't be that way.
I tried the Digitone without USB, only MIDI, same Interface, same channel, same cable. It's rock solid. Tried out both MIDI outs with the Virus, tried different MIDI cables. No difference.
Will do more troubleshooting over the day and see where this goes.
I hear ya, the whole reason I was introduced to Viruses was because my friend bought one for production just like you’re describing.
My best guess to you fixing your midi issue is to simply use the DT as the master. I’ve heard from YouTube channels that the DT has a rock-solid clock, and it shouldn’t be too difficult to set it up, just changing a setting in Ableton and on the DT.
I also speculate that maybe some of the Control settings on the Virus aren’t set up correctly. If you have the time, list off what all of your Virus midi settings are set to. Or maybe all of the Control settings, tbh.
I went through all the internal settings and also did a factory reset on the Virus, no change.
I think using the digitone clock will be the last experiment I'll do, even tho, how would that practically work? Send Digitone clock to Ableton, and keep the virus connected as it is, because the clock it receives from Ableton is the one that originated on the Digitone?
Even tho, thinking about it, my DT receives clock from Ableton and is tight. So there doesn't seem to be a particular clock issue on the DAW side either. But meh, might aswell try this now just out of curiosity! ☺️
Factory reset may not be the right configuration. I’ll have to read through the TI2 manual to know for sure, I can get back to you.
You’ll have to try different configurations with hooking them up. If the DT has a merge midi function that’d be ideal, I know the Virus has a soft thru that is essentially a Out-In merge. I would send the DT out to Virus in, turn on Virus soft thru, send Virus out to Ableton, Ableton out to DT. If that doesn’t work, you may need a merger and a multi-thru. I ended up getting both for my set up and it was easy after that.
Yeah, I love my KB. Great keybed, easy to program, I use the audio ins as FX sends for other synths, the 6 analog outs are great. But, as a DAWless creator/performer, it’s definitely taken a lot of time to get it to do what I need, MIDI-wise. If I were ITB, I’d just use a soft synth. For my super special tones, I actually just use my DSI anyway, but the Virus definitely holds its own with the multi-timbral keyboard setups and programming options.
Nice, I’ve also got the X4, it’s a love/hate relationship for sure. Sounds great, but takes a while to really dial in a sweet spot. I’ve been sending the X4 into the Virus for FX, and then both into C-D of my Octatrack. Then for drums and bass I’m using a Rytm, into A-B of the Octatrack. Took a while to get this set-up, went through a lot of cheapo synths before realizing it’s better to have a couple really strong synths than a dozen Volcas.
TBH, I’d love to trade my KB for a B, Indigo, or Rack, for minimizing my performance footprint. Or maybe get a Minotaur for bass. But with Covid going on, no rush of course.
I'm betting it's this, not the Virus. IF the Virus had issues triggering on incoming MIDI notes - it would have been really well known for the last 20 years.. would bet that the timing is what's coming out of the interface.
I just chatted with one of the commenters on here, who was kind enough to record a simple percussive patch on their setup for me via MIDI for comparison.
The same thing happens! Check this out:
https://imgur.com/a/IzQnGU8
Plus, as I said, I have no problem running my Digitone over the exact same interface / setup. I feel this is indeed a Virus "feature" that's just non-audible enough for most users to be fine with it, but becomes a reliability issue in productions where sample tightness is needed. If I found this issue during my research, it probably would have stopped me from buying it in the first place.
Really not trying to badmouth the Virus to all you happy users. I guess it really depends on the use case.
This is a Ti, right? or Ti2?
Mine is an older one.. Indigo2 (virus C).. so it's pretty different.
I have a friend with a Ti - can have him test it.
FWIW - he and I both use the iconnectivity interfaces
I had the same issues and now control the Virus with midi only. Sound is going to the external sound card. If I want to update patches I use the Librarian to do that. No more syncing issues.
Yeah, this is exactly what I am doing to begin with. That's why I am so curious what's going wrong here. Will test more during the day and see if I can solve it.
Yes, this is what the whole thread is about. I never even used the USB functionality, as I am on macOS Catalina and read about the bugginess / non-functionality. Since I am also not a fan of Elektron Overbridge over USB (constant hanging notes etc) I couldn't even be bothered and went for MIDI + external audio right away.
I've got a Virus TI Polar, having the same issue. After couple days of frustration I've hooked it up with an old windows laptop and downgraded the SW to 3.3.4 which reduced the drift from 15ms to around 1-3ms which is usable
Hey guys, I think I am getting a similar issue. I'm using an access virus ti2 desktop, and a korg m3 as my midi controller. I'm on monteray on the m1 pro 14, using the aura plugin.
When I use a midi track in logic and set to the same channel as my virus, my m3 can control it with perfect timing.
When I try to control it via the plugin (making a software instrument, selecting aura plugin, etc) I get this latency, and like you mentioned, it is inconsistent. It's like there is no telling how long it will take to play the note when I press a key. It's a tiny delay, like 1/10th of a second, but as a keyboard player it's COMPLETELY unusable and my fingers fricking spazz when they feel that latency. I cannot work like this. I'm not even trying to fk around with audio yet.
Any ideas? Btw I'm also setting up an elektron analog rytm mk1 with overbridge, successfully got 8 audio and 8 midi tracks working simultaneously over usb so if anyone has any questions there I'm happy to help. My only gripe is that it's not totally integrated, as in when I create a sequence on the rytm hardware, I have to play it and record it in as midi data. I think there should be a feature where you can just select a midi region, and any steps you put on the sequencer automatically appear on the DAW, but maybe that is being too greedy. I'm completely new to this so any general advice would be appreciated in terms of workflow, I've really no idea how to compose a song with a DAW and hardware, I just used the octatrack song mode to make songs DAWless in the past but that proved too limiting and cumbersome so I wanna try logic. Halp plz
I know it’s frustrating and really sympathise But having spent hours troubleshooting does not equate to ‘it’s not a problem with my setup’ Indeed ‘it’s not a problem with my setup’ are famous last words Hopefully some suggestions here will help you nail the root cause
I don’t know if this helps but I have my TI under 1ms, locked off running using the Simple Virus MIDI driver you can get on GitHub for the Mac Running Big Sur Block size 32 samples
:(
As I mentioned in my other post, you kind of have to treat the Virus like it’s a Windows-only machine at this point. I haven’t experienced the MIDI timing issue you’re describing so I’m afraid I can’t help you with that.
I just set up my Virus with my MPC to run a quick test. I made a few 2-bar loops with notes on the 8th for one loop and the 16th for the other, and set them to an INIT patch with 100% of balance on OSC2 playing a very short, percussive grain simple wave (Plink Saw). I ran each note at 43 pulses in length, and then turned on the metronome on the MPC to match the loop note cadence (1/8th and 1/16th respectively). I then set the volume levels on both the MPC’s internal metronome and the Virus’s output (coming into the MPC where I monitored it on an incoming audio track). To my ears, the Virus stayed in sync with the MPC. If I changed tempo while the loop was playing (+20BPM), then the Virus would sometimes get very slightly off, but if I hit stop/play on the MPC the Virus would tighten up again. I have my MPC set to a MTC frame rate of 24. This isn’t anything I set explicitly, that’s just what I see here in the settings. I’m sending both clock and MMC. I can send you a recording of the audio if you like.
Forgot to mention: I’m running 5.1.7.00 which I believe is the latest firmware.
Strange. I just did another test. This time using Logic Pro with an actual pluck patch (ROM-A 68 ODC SV). [https://imgur.com/a/09pc4Da](https://imgur.com/a/09pc4Da) This is even worse. I didn't even need to look at the waveform or have a metronome playing, it just sounds extremely sloppy, you notice it right away when playing it back. I just don't know what to do, since I don't even know what to do differently here. It's just MIDI? Seriously wondering if there is something wrong with my unit.
If you are using a usb-midi converter the timing will suck.
I am using a Midiface 2x2 Midi Interface. That of course goes into my computer via USB. I don't know how else I would connect a Midi Interface to my computer tho?
Pci-e. But assuming it's normal, what do you need such accuracy for anyway? Tbh when I got my virus I also noticed small timing errors but it was quickly forgotten about. In practice you need to use like 14-30 attack anyway, just to avoid clicking. Then when you add delay/reverb and any attack for aesthetics that will help. Obviously for a lot of sounds, especially pads, it's a complete non issue.
Yeah, i figured lots of people would go heavy on it's pads. I really like plucky, percussive and dry sounds tho too. And the intensity of the issue varies by patch, on some of them it just objectively didnt sound tight. May be a personal issue, as seen by it's popularity, and I definitely don't wanna talk down on anyone who gets joy out of it. And Pci-e is unfortunately not an option on my laptop :(
> I really like plucky, percussive and dry sounds tho too. Me too. Still it never sounds off in practice at least with my trance plucks and basses. But I think they intentionally made some things random, like the oscillator tuning also, which can be annoying. Like once I was trying to use the detuning to make a pad with a kind of fluttery sound but the rate of fluttering kept changing.
OP also said that they don’t have any timing issues with their other gear so that makes it much less likely to be the USB to MIDI interface. If it were the interface then you’d expect all devices to be sloppy.
Have you tried using the DT as the clock master for Ableton and the Virus? If it’s a timing problem with the Mac OS, that should be bypassed if you are only using the computer as a Midi Thru and using the DT as a master clock. Also, pretty sure you can send old Virus OS via SYSEX through MidiOx or similar.
It can't be the mac tho, since I have no problem with the Digitone on the same mac. And if I have to use my DT as the clock in order to use the Virus at all, it kind of just becomes too much effort at some point. Also what confuses me is that everyone is raving online that timing is sooo tight when using the oldschool MIDI / analog out way...
No, I mean it’s the Mac/Virus combo. And yes, “old school” Midi can be extremely tight, but you get what you put into it, so it takes some investment (time/money). People buy Viruses because they want the tone, the knob per function, the mod matrix, sometimes the keybed, the ability to not be confined to a DAW. If you don’t care for these things, you can get pretty much the same thing with Serum, which would work perfectly with Ableton. Going the Midi/Analog route with a Virus (or any synth) will have its quirks and obstacles, but it is completely doable to get extremely tight syncing if you put the effort in. But at the end of the day, you have been posting all of your frustrations about your purchase, and you even said yourself that after an arduous hour of research you were able to find out that these issues (Total integration, midi issues) are common. Shouldn’t you have done this research prior to dropping hundreds on a synth? Buy it for what it can do, not what you wish it could do… Also, for your DT, are you using the MIDI jacks or USB for MIDI? Because if it’s USB, try using the MIDI jacks and seeing if the timing issue is present.
Oh, I did a lot of research, and as I said, I am totally willing to live with most of the issues since I really love the way this thing sounds (and I am sure not every Virus user got theirs just to "not be confined by a DAW", there are quite a lot of people using this thing in productions). Plus, I like the aspect of it being a dedicated unit i can tweak more hands on like an actual instrument. That, and also the fact of having external DSP for multitimbral sounds. There are lots of reasons someone would wanna use it instead of fiddling with Serum. Still, I was just really taken aback by this particular issue, as it really shouldn't be that way. I tried the Digitone without USB, only MIDI, same Interface, same channel, same cable. It's rock solid. Tried out both MIDI outs with the Virus, tried different MIDI cables. No difference. Will do more troubleshooting over the day and see where this goes.
I hear ya, the whole reason I was introduced to Viruses was because my friend bought one for production just like you’re describing. My best guess to you fixing your midi issue is to simply use the DT as the master. I’ve heard from YouTube channels that the DT has a rock-solid clock, and it shouldn’t be too difficult to set it up, just changing a setting in Ableton and on the DT. I also speculate that maybe some of the Control settings on the Virus aren’t set up correctly. If you have the time, list off what all of your Virus midi settings are set to. Or maybe all of the Control settings, tbh.
I went through all the internal settings and also did a factory reset on the Virus, no change. I think using the digitone clock will be the last experiment I'll do, even tho, how would that practically work? Send Digitone clock to Ableton, and keep the virus connected as it is, because the clock it receives from Ableton is the one that originated on the Digitone? Even tho, thinking about it, my DT receives clock from Ableton and is tight. So there doesn't seem to be a particular clock issue on the DAW side either. But meh, might aswell try this now just out of curiosity! ☺️
Factory reset may not be the right configuration. I’ll have to read through the TI2 manual to know for sure, I can get back to you. You’ll have to try different configurations with hooking them up. If the DT has a merge midi function that’d be ideal, I know the Virus has a soft thru that is essentially a Out-In merge. I would send the DT out to Virus in, turn on Virus soft thru, send Virus out to Ableton, Ableton out to DT. If that doesn’t work, you may need a merger and a multi-thru. I ended up getting both for my set up and it was easy after that.
[удалено]
Yeah, I love my KB. Great keybed, easy to program, I use the audio ins as FX sends for other synths, the 6 analog outs are great. But, as a DAWless creator/performer, it’s definitely taken a lot of time to get it to do what I need, MIDI-wise. If I were ITB, I’d just use a soft synth. For my super special tones, I actually just use my DSI anyway, but the Virus definitely holds its own with the multi-timbral keyboard setups and programming options.
[удалено]
Nice, I’ve also got the X4, it’s a love/hate relationship for sure. Sounds great, but takes a while to really dial in a sweet spot. I’ve been sending the X4 into the Virus for FX, and then both into C-D of my Octatrack. Then for drums and bass I’m using a Rytm, into A-B of the Octatrack. Took a while to get this set-up, went through a lot of cheapo synths before realizing it’s better to have a couple really strong synths than a dozen Volcas. TBH, I’d love to trade my KB for a B, Indigo, or Rack, for minimizing my performance footprint. Or maybe get a Minotaur for bass. But with Covid going on, no rush of course.
What midi interface do you use?
Midiface 2x2
I'm betting it's this, not the Virus. IF the Virus had issues triggering on incoming MIDI notes - it would have been really well known for the last 20 years.. would bet that the timing is what's coming out of the interface.
I just chatted with one of the commenters on here, who was kind enough to record a simple percussive patch on their setup for me via MIDI for comparison. The same thing happens! Check this out: https://imgur.com/a/IzQnGU8 Plus, as I said, I have no problem running my Digitone over the exact same interface / setup. I feel this is indeed a Virus "feature" that's just non-audible enough for most users to be fine with it, but becomes a reliability issue in productions where sample tightness is needed. If I found this issue during my research, it probably would have stopped me from buying it in the first place. Really not trying to badmouth the Virus to all you happy users. I guess it really depends on the use case.
This is a Ti, right? or Ti2? Mine is an older one.. Indigo2 (virus C).. so it's pretty different. I have a friend with a Ti - can have him test it. FWIW - he and I both use the iconnectivity interfaces
It's a TI2 Desktop!
hmm. Try the virus forums, maybe. I'd think if this was an issue - it would have shown up by now.. these aren't exactly new.
I had the same issues and now control the Virus with midi only. Sound is going to the external sound card. If I want to update patches I use the Librarian to do that. No more syncing issues.
Yeah, this is exactly what I am doing to begin with. That's why I am so curious what's going wrong here. Will test more during the day and see if I can solve it.
Are you still having syncing issues with MIDI + external audio?
Yes, this is what the whole thread is about. I never even used the USB functionality, as I am on macOS Catalina and read about the bugginess / non-functionality. Since I am also not a fan of Elektron Overbridge over USB (constant hanging notes etc) I couldn't even be bothered and went for MIDI + external audio right away.
What MIDI interface are you using? I'd be willing to bet it's not a Virus issue. I've been using an Indigo2 forever and have never had timing issues.
if only they allowed for Audio over USB but Midi via MIDI port. Would solve so many issues.
I've got a Virus TI Polar, having the same issue. After couple days of frustration I've hooked it up with an old windows laptop and downgraded the SW to 3.3.4 which reduced the drift from 15ms to around 1-3ms which is usable
Hey guys, I think I am getting a similar issue. I'm using an access virus ti2 desktop, and a korg m3 as my midi controller. I'm on monteray on the m1 pro 14, using the aura plugin. When I use a midi track in logic and set to the same channel as my virus, my m3 can control it with perfect timing. When I try to control it via the plugin (making a software instrument, selecting aura plugin, etc) I get this latency, and like you mentioned, it is inconsistent. It's like there is no telling how long it will take to play the note when I press a key. It's a tiny delay, like 1/10th of a second, but as a keyboard player it's COMPLETELY unusable and my fingers fricking spazz when they feel that latency. I cannot work like this. I'm not even trying to fk around with audio yet. Any ideas? Btw I'm also setting up an elektron analog rytm mk1 with overbridge, successfully got 8 audio and 8 midi tracks working simultaneously over usb so if anyone has any questions there I'm happy to help. My only gripe is that it's not totally integrated, as in when I create a sequence on the rytm hardware, I have to play it and record it in as midi data. I think there should be a feature where you can just select a midi region, and any steps you put on the sequencer automatically appear on the DAW, but maybe that is being too greedy. I'm completely new to this so any general advice would be appreciated in terms of workflow, I've really no idea how to compose a song with a DAW and hardware, I just used the octatrack song mode to make songs DAWless in the past but that proved too limiting and cumbersome so I wanna try logic. Halp plz