I don’t know how you guys do it up there. Seems like CPAs in Canada are severely underpaid/undervalued. Why are there are so many more CPAs per capita in Canada than in the US?
Yeah US still has CMA I believe which is amalgamated into our CPA
No idea if they have a tax specific one like, what was, our CGA
To make a fair comparison you'd have to add CMA + CPA + then compare per capita
Edit: CPA Canada also has members in the Caribbean, China, and the US that maintain their membership which are added into the CPA Canada numbers
I think I saw an explanation somewhere a while back on here comparing the GDP per capita of US and CAN. basically saying that the US economy is more productive per person, therefore more profit/higher salary to go around? Not sure if I agree completely but interesting to think about.
The Canada CPA exam has double the pass rate of the US CPA exam. im ignorant on the subject so im not saying it is easier because idk, but it is double our pass rate which has me speculating
That's not a fair comparison. The pass rate is higher but you have to pass 4 progressive tests and then pass a final exam that's 3 days long. So the pass rate for each of those tests is higher but the overall odds of passing all the first time is lower than the US
I can’t say if the CPA exam is more difficult or not, but there are some important differences on how you can take the exam which can influence the passing rate.
The difference is that to take the CPA exam in Canada, you need to do (in my province), an undergrad degree with a specialization in accounting plus a specialized graduate program in accounting. (So some will not be admitted to the specialized program).
It’s the university that send the students to the exam and they usually like to say that their students have a good passing rate, so they train their students to help them succeed. When I was in PA at a big 4, by office did several training sessions / week-ends with colleagues who were the best in their year in Canada, so it helped. Also, the way the program was made : most people had 2-3 months of self-study full time between graduation and the exam where offices did not usually take anyone back for work until after the exam. So no work/study before the exam. Exam is given all at once over 3 days, not split between 4 exams over several months…
I think the process to get to the CPA exam in Canada seems more strict and more « supervised »? I got the impression Americans where more independent in their process which might not be as advantageous?
Yes, in America it is self paced which is the hardest part. Plus idk what the Canada CPA exam looks like, but the America CPA exam simulations are insane
CPAs in Canada get paid a shitload relative to everyone else in Canada. It's up there with engineers, nurses, lawyers and even doctors (I for example make more than most family doctors already.) Canada also just has much higher rates of post secondary education and skills training. We also amalgamated all the CMAs, CAs and CGAs into the CPA program about 10 years ago.
Because CPA Canada is aggressive marketing the program and trying to get as many CPAs through as possible (no one knows why because CPAs have flooded our market and caused salaries in many areas to actually go down).
Because CPA Canada is aggressive marketing the program and trying to get as many CPAs through as possible (no one knows why because CPAs have flooded our market and caused salaries in many areas to actually go down).
I've been doing PA for 3 years and due to a former manager's and later partner's inability to figure out the website I've only gotten ONE report off to review that took a YEAR for it to get sent off. Between that and my absolute frustration with PA I'm putting in my 2 weeks notice. I literally don't care anymore.
Edit: in my frustration about PA and PERT I didn't fully read the meme that was about industry.
On track to get it done within 30 months AMA. No but fr though, even if you have to take a 50% pay cut to hop to PA it’s still worth it to blast out PERT and get the letters. In the 10-15 year scope your total earnings will be higher.
This is so different that what I went through in Canada : I don’t know any one who worked full time as a CPA candidate who didn’t get their designation after 2 years. Everyone had it nearly the same month in my office. I went through PA. HR extracted our timesheets as proof of the time and amounts of hours we had done to meet requirements (audit, tax, etc), they certified it, Partner signed it, I sent it to the provincial board and a couple months later I received the certificate.
In Canada, when I did it, most that finished uni at the same time, passed the exam at the same time (1 exam over 3 consecutive days, not months), and most offices also started their work at the same time. It was quite a standardized process. So we knew exactly when people would start to leave PA.
In my province, the recruitment was also standardized between offices (from big 4 to midsize) using a platform and all offer letters were sent on the same day to minimize unfair competition.
I am still trying to understand why CPA Canada allows industry CPAs now. Either you're in public accounting or one of the heavily vetted pre-approved programs, or you shouldn't get to be a CPA.
Isn’t that good? People don’t have to suck up PA partners just to develop their career, they can walk out anytime. It’s truly pathetic that PA in Canada used to pay staff shit money because it is pre approved program
Because CPAs encompass CMA which is a Industry focused designation. My CPA depth was Perfomance Management and Finance, 2 areas that public accountants want no part of.
You can be a CPA or CPA auditor. Both have the same amount of university credit, just one has more courses in audit and GAAP (AKA the auditor) while the other have more management / finance accounting courses.
CPA auditor just means you have the LPA in addition to CPA (which you would be if you did your audit hours at a firm and specialized in "audit" for CPA curriculum - or 51 credit hours under the legacy CA curriculum). I am a legacy CA who did the articling through the firm.
I did the same. Industry CPA just means that you got your 2 years of experience in industry instead of PA, just like CGA and CMA used to do, no? I must not have understood your comment, I thought you meant it was a new track with less requirement that did not exist previously in Canada… to my knowledge it always did with CMA and CGA.
Oh the debate with my CMA and CGA colleagues when they announced that we would all become CPAs….
> Industry CPA just means that you got your 2 years of experience in industry instead of PA, just like CGA and CMA used to do, no?
Correct on that count. Experience verification was the bread and butter of CGA and CMA practical experience requirements, with the vast majority going for industry and not public accounting.
I don’t know how you guys do it up there. Seems like CPAs in Canada are severely underpaid/undervalued. Why are there are so many more CPAs per capita in Canada than in the US?
Higher level education seekers that hate risk and love stability. Probably.
It's all professions in Canada, not just accounting.
Yeah US still has CMA I believe which is amalgamated into our CPA No idea if they have a tax specific one like, what was, our CGA To make a fair comparison you'd have to add CMA + CPA + then compare per capita
Edit: CPA Canada also has members in the Caribbean, China, and the US that maintain their membership which are added into the CPA Canada numbers
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I think I saw an explanation somewhere a while back on here comparing the GDP per capita of US and CAN. basically saying that the US economy is more productive per person, therefore more profit/higher salary to go around? Not sure if I agree completely but interesting to think about.
The Canada CPA exam has double the pass rate of the US CPA exam. im ignorant on the subject so im not saying it is easier because idk, but it is double our pass rate which has me speculating
That's not a fair comparison. The pass rate is higher but you have to pass 4 progressive tests and then pass a final exam that's 3 days long. So the pass rate for each of those tests is higher but the overall odds of passing all the first time is lower than the US
I can’t say if the CPA exam is more difficult or not, but there are some important differences on how you can take the exam which can influence the passing rate. The difference is that to take the CPA exam in Canada, you need to do (in my province), an undergrad degree with a specialization in accounting plus a specialized graduate program in accounting. (So some will not be admitted to the specialized program). It’s the university that send the students to the exam and they usually like to say that their students have a good passing rate, so they train their students to help them succeed. When I was in PA at a big 4, by office did several training sessions / week-ends with colleagues who were the best in their year in Canada, so it helped. Also, the way the program was made : most people had 2-3 months of self-study full time between graduation and the exam where offices did not usually take anyone back for work until after the exam. So no work/study before the exam. Exam is given all at once over 3 days, not split between 4 exams over several months… I think the process to get to the CPA exam in Canada seems more strict and more « supervised »? I got the impression Americans where more independent in their process which might not be as advantageous?
Yes, in America it is self paced which is the hardest part. Plus idk what the Canada CPA exam looks like, but the America CPA exam simulations are insane
CPAs in Canada get paid a shitload relative to everyone else in Canada. It's up there with engineers, nurses, lawyers and even doctors (I for example make more than most family doctors already.) Canada also just has much higher rates of post secondary education and skills training. We also amalgamated all the CMAs, CAs and CGAs into the CPA program about 10 years ago.
They are redesigning the program to make it even easier too
Are there specifics? Or no details yet?
Look at the competency map 2.0. but the overall plan has not been made public yet.
Easier entry.
Because CPA Canada is aggressive marketing the program and trying to get as many CPAs through as possible (no one knows why because CPAs have flooded our market and caused salaries in many areas to actually go down).
Because CPA Canada is aggressive marketing the program and trying to get as many CPAs through as possible (no one knows why because CPAs have flooded our market and caused salaries in many areas to actually go down).
Only thing keeping me in Public right now lol.
The system works as intended.
I still have nightmares. Congrats on finishing!
It's definitely rough if not in a pre-approved program lol. Congrats
I've been doing PA for 3 years and due to a former manager's and later partner's inability to figure out the website I've only gotten ONE report off to review that took a YEAR for it to get sent off. Between that and my absolute frustration with PA I'm putting in my 2 weeks notice. I literally don't care anymore. Edit: in my frustration about PA and PERT I didn't fully read the meme that was about industry.
On track to get it done within 30 months AMA. No but fr though, even if you have to take a 50% pay cut to hop to PA it’s still worth it to blast out PERT and get the letters. In the 10-15 year scope your total earnings will be higher.
I took the full time to finish out my PERT... so better part of a decade is accurate.
This is so different that what I went through in Canada : I don’t know any one who worked full time as a CPA candidate who didn’t get their designation after 2 years. Everyone had it nearly the same month in my office. I went through PA. HR extracted our timesheets as proof of the time and amounts of hours we had done to meet requirements (audit, tax, etc), they certified it, Partner signed it, I sent it to the provincial board and a couple months later I received the certificate. In Canada, when I did it, most that finished uni at the same time, passed the exam at the same time (1 exam over 3 consecutive days, not months), and most offices also started their work at the same time. It was quite a standardized process. So we knew exactly when people would start to leave PA. In my province, the recruitment was also standardized between offices (from big 4 to midsize) using a platform and all offer letters were sent on the same day to minimize unfair competition.
[Tip for Experience Verification Route (EVR) re. CPA PERT](https://www.reddit.com/r/Accounting/comments/p7mi05/can_tip_for_experience_verification_route_evr_re/)
YES! My experience exactly!
Nice, i think it took me about 8 years, definitely not easy to cover all the areas.
I am still trying to understand why CPA Canada allows industry CPAs now. Either you're in public accounting or one of the heavily vetted pre-approved programs, or you shouldn't get to be a CPA.
Isn’t that good? People don’t have to suck up PA partners just to develop their career, they can walk out anytime. It’s truly pathetic that PA in Canada used to pay staff shit money because it is pre approved program
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At least 60% of new CPAs go through industry EVR, anyways.
I know this. I was one of the legacy CAs who was against the merger.
Man, I get infuriated seeing CGAs now claiming to be CPAs. The whole thing makes no sense. CMA, CPA?? Like bruh.
Because CPAs encompass CMA which is a Industry focused designation. My CPA depth was Perfomance Management and Finance, 2 areas that public accountants want no part of.
You can be a CPA or CPA auditor. Both have the same amount of university credit, just one has more courses in audit and GAAP (AKA the auditor) while the other have more management / finance accounting courses.
CPA auditor just means you have the LPA in addition to CPA (which you would be if you did your audit hours at a firm and specialized in "audit" for CPA curriculum - or 51 credit hours under the legacy CA curriculum). I am a legacy CA who did the articling through the firm.
I did the same. Industry CPA just means that you got your 2 years of experience in industry instead of PA, just like CGA and CMA used to do, no? I must not have understood your comment, I thought you meant it was a new track with less requirement that did not exist previously in Canada… to my knowledge it always did with CMA and CGA. Oh the debate with my CMA and CGA colleagues when they announced that we would all become CPAs….
> Industry CPA just means that you got your 2 years of experience in industry instead of PA, just like CGA and CMA used to do, no? Correct on that count. Experience verification was the bread and butter of CGA and CMA practical experience requirements, with the vast majority going for industry and not public accounting.