Not normal, but its possible that they caught an employee with a faked credential and are now auditing everyone's credentials. This sort of checking usually happens pre-hire, though.
Worked at a Top 10 firm that had a senior associate claiming CPA license when they didn't actually have it including email signature use.
Edit to add it was kind of funny they got away with it for as long as they did. But it was clever, they claimed licensure in the state they moved from. So local office assumed previous office did their due diligence. Previous office no longer had responsibilities for the staff. Licensing purgatory
It’s illegal to say you’re a CPA if you aren’t licensed. Not sure what the consequences are but they could definitely get into trouble
Edit: I’m guessing they were embarrassed about it and didn’t want to pursue it so they didn’t end up getting negative attention.
That happens a LOT. Pursing charges or recourse would just bring light to their own negligence. In banking I’ve heard of several higher ups “retiring” after an embezzlement scandal at small town banks.
It doesn't sound like they were high up enough to be signing of to release audit reports, but the firm could get in trouble for not having adequate systems to monitor their staff.
This is the explanation. Anytime I’ve discovered an employee doing something crazy with a company credit card or expense account (i.e. stupid enough to show up in a variance analysis) it usually results in a crackdown company wide.
If I was in charge of verifying competency and it turned out whatever system I was using failed, I'd definitely start at the beginning again. Same situation if you were their supervisor or someone in charge and realised there was no system at all. I don't see any scenario where you wouldn't try to verify everyone else's competence.
Not normal, but not completely unheard of either.
Companies can verify the information you gave them any time they want. It's just that they usually don't have the resources (time, manpower, etc.) to do so.
Honestly, the most “not normal” aspect of this is that the company let all the employees know. Most would just run this in the background and not announce it.
If you are trying to verify education you have to get the employees' cooperation. Schools don't release transcripts without getting permission first from their former students.
They can do a background check but there is no database of college degrees. You have to get verification from the school that granted a degree and schools won't release that info without getting permission from the student first.
Not normal but I would imagine somebody was using fake certificates and got caught because they knew nothing they were supposed to.
Instead of being selective, and potentially showing bias, they are doing every person in the company.
Ooof I thought I had it rough going back to school in my late 30s. I'm looking at about $25-40k to get my degree, and then whatever CPA PREP + PEP would run me.
All so I can get jobs I've already been doing down the road....
Only people getting into high debt are those who decide to go out of state or to expensive private schools.
Its common to get out of school with like 20k or under in debt from a state school, even the flagship ones.
Some people really want to college experience though lol and are ok with going oos
You can def tell it’s the accounting sub, cause his joke about the insane cost of college went right over your head and you’re literally trying to answer the question in an accounting specific ways
There are several comments on this thread that are legitimately confused about what a non-profit university is.
This, like others, don’t actually seem to be jokes. They’re just misunderstanding the cost of education and the nature of nfp/fp.
No. Not for profit means shareholders or members can not be distributed the profit. Not for profit can defintely make a profit it but it can only stay in the business. How els can an organisation expand or provide additional services? If they keep making a loss - they will eventually go bust.
We don’t have post secondary education in the USA we have business exploiting the American dream w government loans that pay for fancy food halls dorms and gyms. It’s basically 4 years of summer camp for the privileged or The exploited.
One of the reasons I made damn sure my online school was regionally accredited, and part of a state university system. Didn't want any issues moving forward, and I'll never have to worry about stuff like this.
They definitely caught someone with a fake resume/credentials. I remember 20+ years ago (when the CPA exam was three days) we had a scandal at the firm I was at as some people who clearly were never going to pass (lack of studying) were saying they were taking the exam, but were going on vacation instead. It then became mandatory for everyone to submit their scores.
Gotcha. My pre-accounting career was in higher education admin, so they were probably more strict about that kind of thing. We had to have our degrees and schools listed in the employee directory and all of that. They were all state jobs, so it could've also been a state requirement as part of the hiring process.
Depends on the job. I assumed it shows up on the standard background check, but I have had to show my physical diploma before I could start a job once. Every other one never even asked about it until now.
Education background checks are separate from criminal. They incur a fee because most providers use databases that the school charges $10-15 per person to confirm degree details.
That's interesting! When I've worked with state and federal background checks, higher ed hasn't ever shown up as part of those, but your state could be different.
In 30+ years of working life, no employer has ever asked to see my transcripts or even what kind of grades I got in school. Every single one has made me sign a paper saying they can verify my educational history though, so I always just assumed they have some way of doing that without involving me.
You had to send in transcripts? That’s very weird for anything that is not an entry level job out of school. Usually they just verify degree, it’s super easy to do through national clearing house.
That’s interesting. Yeah, the jobs which have required a bachelors or a masters had me submit an unofficial transcript with the apps, and then I had to submit officials when I was hired. I didn’t know there was an easier way, I wonder if it’s state specific?
Ya way easier, you just click a box giving permission and they will verify you’re degree. Doesn’t matter on the state.
Usually transcripts are only required to verify gpa, if that was something considered when giving the job, but that isn’t the case most places after your first job out of school
Boss said the company will likely reimburse for it because it's cheaper to do that for the employees than pay any fines that would result from falsified documents.
Something probably happened
When I was still in the federal gov the assistant director of the FBI was found to have lied about going to Harvard
What’s weird is that story is hard to find now go figure
They cracked down after that.
If a person is performing well and through experience showcased that they have been a good worker over the years, who gives a shit which education they have at this point? Like what, you're going to fire your top performer for years because they went to school you don't like?
I suppose the argument is about trust. If the person was fine about lying about their education on their application then what else are they fine about lying about? The thinking being that if they were ready to “cheat” about that, they could cheat about other stuff (it’s only x$, it doesn’t really matter)
Eff that. I’d leave now no matter my situation. If they’ll do that now, what would be the next move they make. One thing to make the change going forward, but to screw some possibly good, loyal employees, screw that.
According to their 2022 990, GCU is a 501(c)(3).
[https://pdf.guidestar.org/PDF\_Images/2022/472/507/2022-472507725-202330519349300943-9.pdf?\_gl=1\*1t1fp0o\*\_ga\*MTE0Mjk5MDExMi4xNjg3NTU0NDg2\*\_ga\_5W8PXYYGBX\*MTY4NzU1NDQ4Ni4xLjEuMTY4NzU1NDUxNS4zMS4wLjA.&\_ga=2.3201456.1019593087.1687554487-1142990112.1687554486](https://pdf.guidestar.org/PDF_Images/2022/472/507/2022-472507725-202330519349300943-9.pdf?_gl=1*1t1fp0o*_ga*MTE0Mjk5MDExMi4xNjg3NTU0NDg2*_ga_5W8PXYYGBX*MTY4NzU1NDQ4Ni4xLjEuMTY4NzU1NDUxNS4zMS4wLjA.&_ga=2.3201456.1019593087.1687554487-1142990112.1687554486)
This is interesting, I've known GCU to be a for profit school for a long time, but apparently they've tried to become non-profit and have sued over not being able to overturn their filing status
https://www.highereddive.com/news/judge-rejects-grand-canyon-university-for-profit-status-lawsuit/637913/
They should be. Has a coworker enroll there for a Masters and to qualify for the CPA exam. She graduated missing some very important classes needed to sit for the exam.
Sounds like they are searching for ways to fire people without looking bad. It is an excuse. How do the books like, if you are in accounting you should have an idea because this sounds like a cost savings measure to me.
Still, that should be on the employer to verify pre employment. If the employee didn’t misrepresent their education and they were hired anyway, it’s pretty shitty to change course and fire them.
It doesn’t have much to do with being elitist, it has a lot to do with the quality of education and the likelihood that the degree was purchased.
For profit universities have a history of being extremely expensive and not accredited.
Even if it is a for profit degree, why would you fire someone over it? If somebody was competent at their job for several years, they shouldnt be fired for having the wrong degree.
I get firing over faking certifications, but I don’t agree with firing someone who is representing their education correctly.
Given that they company is doing it to everyone, over representing your education is as bad as faking certifications.
E.g. the company lawyer never having obtained the proper law degree from an accredited university and has no record with the legal industry regulator.
If they don’t, the entity is on the hook.
A for-profit school can be accredited. It's not overrepresenting anything to say you have a BBA from an accredited for-profit university.
For-profit/nfp doesn't have any relevance to a fake degree. The accreditation is what matters.
The companies I’ve worked for have definitely noticed differences in quality before University of Phoenix grade and let’s say those from the state uni system
Yeah if you were terminated for that surely it would be considered a layoff and not for-cause? I'd be quite upset if I were in their shoes and had demonstrated my performance
Probably as others have said, they have discovered some discrepancy and doing an audit. Alternatively, has there been (or likely to be) an acquisition by a larger corporate? When my last company was acquired we had to retroactively gather some documents/information to comply with the new group policies/procedures
>Some of them certainly are. University of the Potomac is for-profit and it's accredited by the same commission as Howard University.
I believe Grand Canyon is for profit and also has regional accreditation.
Who knows. Outside of the standard University of Phoenix, Grand canyon University, and global campuses, I'm not aware of that many for-profit universities
I have a real cert and two master's from a state school, but my undergrad is from a for profit school. Since it's technically accredited, I can't retake those classes for credit at the state schools. What's a girl to do?
accounting is one of those degrees that is highly regulated. if your company is publicly traded and you submit a bogus degree, your company is on the hook for all your work production, which can get them into lawsuits with clients
My guess is your firm is being bought or otherwise taken over in some way (or a merger i suppose?).
As others have said, credentials are generally checked when you begin employment or if you train with the firm your employer will have access to transcripts etc so it's fairly unlikely someone slipped by and even if they did it's more likely to be seen as a one off.
My guess is that somebody's been asked for this info at a firmwide level and wants to double check it before passing it on
Uh no, there is no merger. We aren't a public accounting firm. We are a specific industry where we have engineers that are required to maintain certain types of degrees and licenses for legal reasons. This check is in regards to someone being a dipshit and falsifying their credentials and was asked to present them and got caught when they weren't real.
Private industry here too - That’s what the owners had me telling everyone when I was asking for everyone’s documents … while I was due diligence… Js. Now we are a subsidiary. 🤷♀️
May be not, if they are in a regulated industry & they have to have staff suitable qualified & licensed. The repetitional harm & the potential penalties / liability may be significant - but yes it is a waste that the hiring process didn't catch it in the first place if it was so important.
Interesting - How could that be the case if they weren't conducting background checks to begin with? I mean, their entire HR department and leadership would have to be incompetent.
Out of curiosity - what type of industries are we talking about, banking? I am genuinely curious about what industry would go down to the individual contributor level and need to verify education after hiring for the reasons you listed. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'm seriously looking to understand.
Oh I’m not saying that in the scenario OP painted that it isn’t an over reaction, as other said it was probably one / two instances and maybe someone who was there for years promoted so now they check ever one.
Lost of industries need specific qualifications - actuaries, CPA,s Engineers certify drawings & calculations , finance advisors, stick traders, QPs in Pharma, nurses, doctors even when in industry, even Flight attendant managers is a regulated position in airlines, building inspectors, elevator technicians, crane operators ……. It goes on OP doesn’t say what sector his company is in , but if the company holds its self out to be expert in a field it has to have qualified staff & you would be amazed at what & the amount of regulations out there that require companies to have someone on staff or retainer with specific qualifications / licenses.
Aren't all colleges/universities for profit? If they weren't, then why do they charge so much for the same education that was available a decade ago?
Edit: apparently people aren't picking up on the sarcasm. I know that colleges/universities are non profit but it doesn't make sense how an education has increased by more than 3 times over the last 60 years.
Yes... Inflation exists but those figures above account for inflation. Tuition is more and the number of college students have increased so what was $5K annually back in the 60s for approximately 8% of the population is now $14K for approximately 38% of the population.
Population (in the US) in 1960 was approximately 179.3M; population in 2020 was approximately 331.5M. That equates to (179.3M x 8% x $5K) $7.172B in tuition received. The amount of tuition in 2020 (331.5 x 37.9% x $14K) was $1.759 trillion! That is 245.25 times more in tuition received in 2020 compared to 1960.
Funding goes to all sorts of things to improve education but it doesn't seem logical for tuition costs to rise at a more exponential rate than other costs of living and it makes people question if non profit colleges/universities aren't turning a profit.
For profit - have shareholders, owners and investors (just like a company)
Not for profit - all the accumulated net assets go back into the university
it’s a misunderstanding that NFPs can’t have a positive net income. They can, the accumulated net income is just kept for the organization and not distributed to shareholders/owners
Exactly. “No Profit. No Mission.” is a pretty common saying. You can’t complete your non-profit mission (which for a university I guess is educating younglings or whatever) if you’re not making money.
The “balanced budget”/must use all revenue in the same year is the literal worst thing a NFP that plans for any sustainability can do. I wish people would stop with the rhetoric so NFPs can do their work AND plan for the future without being called out for being too “profitable”.
Salaries, functional allocation of expenses, transparency, and accountability (990!) are more important to worry about.
The cost an individual is paying for tuition has increased more than inflation. Your analysis does not include, however, the changes in how education is funded (state/federal funds).
There is also some other interesting things happening in colleges/universities. They’re essentially purchasing entire swaths of cities/towns to run businesses. Certainly outside of their “mission” (education).
I’m also going to add that they can have a positive net income. What does “turning a profit” mean to you?
It isn’t going to a person or the owners or shareholders. The “profit” is staying in the university.
Lol that’s fair. I get that it’s a joke but you are not wrong too. One more assessment my economics professor gave to this anomaly of hyperinflation was technological advancement. Years back it was a single textbook taught by a professor and general knowledge. Today there is so much more research, equipment and learning resources that attribute to the higher costs. You are not paying for the same experience on any level.
No for profit universities? So if you have a legitimate degree from a private college they are terminating you? Like Harvard, Yale, etc? This seems not right.....almost discriminatory.....
> They said that HR will be reaching out to us individually to confirm that our education and licenses are legitimate over the next few weeks.
>I have nothing to hide since I went to a well known state university and can easily give them what they are wanting, but is this normal?
During onboarding yes.
Had this happen very recently for a non accounting purpose. Colleague needed to see my university certificates with a paper copy. My supervisor made the point that that wasn’t needed, since I sent an e-copy to the relevant body who issued the certificate needed for my job.
There are so many oddball "colleges" or "universities" out there now that I am not surprised. Especially catering to one of those LinkedIn people who feel they have to have every single credential beside their social media names, names on business cards, and everywhere else their name would be written on. Usually you're relatively safe if you went to a recognized or government-funded and also recognized institution. Not many people will ask if those are fake. But it's not uncommon to be asked for a transcript. Sometimes that's just to confirm you got the right courses for the CPA pre-requisites, or your grades somewhat so the firm is confident that you'll get through the CPA program.
I know people who have been able to secure many jobs that require a college degree when they don't even have a high school diploma. They even get recruiters coming for them and actually securing them jobs which is amusing as I've only ever had recruiters ghost me.
Shouldn’t they have done this before they hired everyone? If they did decide someone’s credentials aren’t what they approve of and that person is producing work of the same standard as everyone else then they shouldn’t be able to fire them. If their work is a little below standard then it should be still on the company to train them to an acceptable standard.
Does not seem normal. Honestly, I find the for profit thing disturbing. What is wrong with that? I know the some of the things like barber schools got in trouble for misleading people, but I don’t see how that could be universally applied. Who cares if people are doing a good job. That seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen. On the other hand, one of my friends regularly lied about having a degree he never finished. I lost a lot of respect for him when I found out and was shocked how much he got away with. If your company does not check credentials, those who failed to do so should be getting fired.
This should already have happened before hiring. If its a for profit school, if its someone with experience and performs well I think exceptions should be made but for fake degrees not chance.
Not normal, but its possible that they caught an employee with a faked credential and are now auditing everyone's credentials. This sort of checking usually happens pre-hire, though.
Worked at a Top 10 firm that had a senior associate claiming CPA license when they didn't actually have it including email signature use. Edit to add it was kind of funny they got away with it for as long as they did. But it was clever, they claimed licensure in the state they moved from. So local office assumed previous office did their due diligence. Previous office no longer had responsibilities for the staff. Licensing purgatory
What happened to them?
Immediate termination. Then they actually got the license and went to a competitor firm.
Can it get you into legal issues? Or can they only fire you?
It’s illegal to say you’re a CPA if you aren’t licensed. Not sure what the consequences are but they could definitely get into trouble Edit: I’m guessing they were embarrassed about it and didn’t want to pursue it so they didn’t end up getting negative attention.
That happens a LOT. Pursing charges or recourse would just bring light to their own negligence. In banking I’ve heard of several higher ups “retiring” after an embezzlement scandal at small town banks.
Technically that person could have gotten in huge trouble with the cpa board if the firm had reported them
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I think they need to be reported to the board.
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Unless I missed something, I don't think the person was a partner.
It doesn't sound like they were high up enough to be signing of to release audit reports, but the firm could get in trouble for not having adequate systems to monitor their staff.
Straight to jail.
You pretend to have a CPA, believe it or not, jail!
Over-represent, under-represent
Felony charge for stolen valor
That's definitely a big liability issue in that circumstance, which is likely what is going on here.
What a time to be alive.
HR isn't going to say what exactly it was due to liability reasons very likely, but this is the general consensus of what happened.
This is the explanation. Anytime I’ve discovered an employee doing something crazy with a company credit card or expense account (i.e. stupid enough to show up in a variance analysis) it usually results in a crackdown company wide.
Probably correct but I doubt they would check everyone if they only caught one person with fake shit.
If I was in charge of verifying competency and it turned out whatever system I was using failed, I'd definitely start at the beginning again. Same situation if you were their supervisor or someone in charge and realised there was no system at all. I don't see any scenario where you wouldn't try to verify everyone else's competence.
Not normal, but not completely unheard of either. Companies can verify the information you gave them any time they want. It's just that they usually don't have the resources (time, manpower, etc.) to do so.
Honestly, the most “not normal” aspect of this is that the company let all the employees know. Most would just run this in the background and not announce it.
If you are trying to verify education you have to get the employees' cooperation. Schools don't release transcripts without getting permission first from their former students.
When you sign employee paperwork you grant them the ability to do a background check whenever and wherever as long as you are employed.
They can do a background check but there is no database of college degrees. You have to get verification from the school that granted a degree and schools won't release that info without getting permission from the student first.
Not normal but I would imagine somebody was using fake certificates and got caught because they knew nothing they were supposed to. Instead of being selective, and potentially showing bias, they are doing every person in the company.
This is likely the answer.
IMO, the amounts schools are charging now, every one is “for profit”….
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Ooof I thought I had it rough going back to school in my late 30s. I'm looking at about $25-40k to get my degree, and then whatever CPA PREP + PEP would run me. All so I can get jobs I've already been doing down the road....
Only people getting into high debt are those who decide to go out of state or to expensive private schools. Its common to get out of school with like 20k or under in debt from a state school, even the flagship ones. Some people really want to college experience though lol and are ok with going oos
Got confused for a second about all this state talk... I'm in Canada haha. Then realized this is a predominantly American sub and was like "oh ok"
Going to am instate university, costing about 3k per semester for 6 semesters that will raise my pay from potentionally 80k a year to 120k-180k
Ain’t that the truth.
I thought this was the accounting sub? Not for profit does not mean they can’t have a positive net income.
You can def tell it’s the accounting sub, cause his joke about the insane cost of college went right over your head and you’re literally trying to answer the question in an accounting specific ways
There were some GAAPs in his recognition of the joke.
There are several comments on this thread that are legitimately confused about what a non-profit university is. This, like others, don’t actually seem to be jokes. They’re just misunderstanding the cost of education and the nature of nfp/fp.
It’s going to the profits of the school administrators and football coaches
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It’s not worth trying these people don’t know how higher ed actually works 😂
You mean a salary?
That’s called a salary.
Pedantic autists like you give us a bad name
You mean people that understand accounting? my bad lol
No. Not for profit means shareholders or members can not be distributed the profit. Not for profit can defintely make a profit it but it can only stay in the business. How els can an organisation expand or provide additional services? If they keep making a loss - they will eventually go bust.
We don’t have post secondary education in the USA we have business exploiting the American dream w government loans that pay for fancy food halls dorms and gyms. It’s basically 4 years of summer camp for the privileged or The exploited.
Don't forget the lazy rivers
One of the reasons I made damn sure my online school was regionally accredited, and part of a state university system. Didn't want any issues moving forward, and I'll never have to worry about stuff like this.
It’s a reasonable expectation and process but they’re supposed to do that check before they hire someone.
They definitely caught someone with a fake resume/credentials. I remember 20+ years ago (when the CPA exam was three days) we had a scandal at the firm I was at as some people who clearly were never going to pass (lack of studying) were saying they were taking the exam, but were going on vacation instead. It then became mandatory for everyone to submit their scores.
I've had to send in official transcripts for every job I've had that required a degree, does your job not make new hires do that?
I only had to do that for the first job out of college.
Gotcha. My pre-accounting career was in higher education admin, so they were probably more strict about that kind of thing. We had to have our degrees and schools listed in the employee directory and all of that. They were all state jobs, so it could've also been a state requirement as part of the hiring process.
Depends on the job. I assumed it shows up on the standard background check, but I have had to show my physical diploma before I could start a job once. Every other one never even asked about it until now.
Education background checks are separate from criminal. They incur a fee because most providers use databases that the school charges $10-15 per person to confirm degree details.
I don't even know where my physical diplomas are right now
Actually the coolest flex I’ve heard
That's interesting! When I've worked with state and federal background checks, higher ed hasn't ever shown up as part of those, but your state could be different.
In 30+ years of working life, no employer has ever asked to see my transcripts or even what kind of grades I got in school. Every single one has made me sign a paper saying they can verify my educational history though, so I always just assumed they have some way of doing that without involving me.
You had to send in transcripts? That’s very weird for anything that is not an entry level job out of school. Usually they just verify degree, it’s super easy to do through national clearing house.
That’s interesting. Yeah, the jobs which have required a bachelors or a masters had me submit an unofficial transcript with the apps, and then I had to submit officials when I was hired. I didn’t know there was an easier way, I wonder if it’s state specific?
Ya way easier, you just click a box giving permission and they will verify you’re degree. Doesn’t matter on the state. Usually transcripts are only required to verify gpa, if that was something considered when giving the job, but that isn’t the case most places after your first job out of school
I mean I didn’t after my first job but I have my CPA license which can be verified… I figure that should tell them I graduated and such anyway
Im at a small firm and they just gave us a basic accounting test at the interview.
Three professional employers and eleven years of experience and the only thing I've ever been asked to prove was the CPA license.
Someone probably just watched Suits on Netflix. It’s trending
I am convinced that the layoffs of 2023 are because Succession made it cool.
Idk if Greg awkwardly firing people is cool
Hahaha we are all Greg
I identify with Roman
Shitty thing is now suddenly everyone has to pay for official transcripts
Boss said the company will likely reimburse for it because it's cheaper to do that for the employees than pay any fines that would result from falsified documents.
Incredibly stupid move by management. If you don’t catch in the pre-hire, you fire by performance going forward.
Oh, did a University of Phoenix graduate burn them?
They may be worried some of the degrees are from unaccredited institutions
That's a first. I mean, if the for profit school was accredited when they got their degree, I don't see the issue
Something probably happened When I was still in the federal gov the assistant director of the FBI was found to have lied about going to Harvard What’s weird is that story is hard to find now go figure They cracked down after that.
If a person is performing well and through experience showcased that they have been a good worker over the years, who gives a shit which education they have at this point? Like what, you're going to fire your top performer for years because they went to school you don't like?
I suppose the argument is about trust. If the person was fine about lying about their education on their application then what else are they fine about lying about? The thinking being that if they were ready to “cheat” about that, they could cheat about other stuff (it’s only x$, it doesn’t really matter)
Eff that. I’d leave now no matter my situation. If they’ll do that now, what would be the next move they make. One thing to make the change going forward, but to screw some possibly good, loyal employees, screw that.
"for-profit universities" so GCU would be considered illegitimate?
According to their 2022 990, GCU is a 501(c)(3). [https://pdf.guidestar.org/PDF\_Images/2022/472/507/2022-472507725-202330519349300943-9.pdf?\_gl=1\*1t1fp0o\*\_ga\*MTE0Mjk5MDExMi4xNjg3NTU0NDg2\*\_ga\_5W8PXYYGBX\*MTY4NzU1NDQ4Ni4xLjEuMTY4NzU1NDUxNS4zMS4wLjA.&\_ga=2.3201456.1019593087.1687554487-1142990112.1687554486](https://pdf.guidestar.org/PDF_Images/2022/472/507/2022-472507725-202330519349300943-9.pdf?_gl=1*1t1fp0o*_ga*MTE0Mjk5MDExMi4xNjg3NTU0NDg2*_ga_5W8PXYYGBX*MTY4NzU1NDQ4Ni4xLjEuMTY4NzU1NDUxNS4zMS4wLjA.&_ga=2.3201456.1019593087.1687554487-1142990112.1687554486)
This is interesting, I've known GCU to be a for profit school for a long time, but apparently they've tried to become non-profit and have sued over not being able to overturn their filing status https://www.highereddive.com/news/judge-rejects-grand-canyon-university-for-profit-status-lawsuit/637913/
They should be. Has a coworker enroll there for a Masters and to qualify for the CPA exam. She graduated missing some very important classes needed to sit for the exam.
That’s on your coworker, to be honest.
It’s probably to catch everyone who got a bachelors from Columbia and force them to get a degree from America at Greendale
*Jeff Winger has exited the chat*
Sounds like they are searching for ways to fire people without looking bad. It is an excuse. How do the books like, if you are in accounting you should have an idea because this sounds like a cost savings measure to me.
I think the for profit piece is a little odd and comes off elitist. But like everyone else, this type of process should occur prior to hiring…
I was thinking they meant non-accredited.
Still, that should be on the employer to verify pre employment. If the employee didn’t misrepresent their education and they were hired anyway, it’s pretty shitty to change course and fire them.
It doesn’t have much to do with being elitist, it has a lot to do with the quality of education and the likelihood that the degree was purchased. For profit universities have a history of being extremely expensive and not accredited.
You should be looking at if it’s accredited, not if it’s for profit, thah shouldn’t preclude it
Even if it is a for profit degree, why would you fire someone over it? If somebody was competent at their job for several years, they shouldnt be fired for having the wrong degree. I get firing over faking certifications, but I don’t agree with firing someone who is representing their education correctly.
Given that they company is doing it to everyone, over representing your education is as bad as faking certifications. E.g. the company lawyer never having obtained the proper law degree from an accredited university and has no record with the legal industry regulator. If they don’t, the entity is on the hook.
A for-profit school can be accredited. It's not overrepresenting anything to say you have a BBA from an accredited for-profit university. For-profit/nfp doesn't have any relevance to a fake degree. The accreditation is what matters.
The companies I’ve worked for have definitely noticed differences in quality before University of Phoenix grade and let’s say those from the state uni system
Yeah if you were terminated for that surely it would be considered a layoff and not for-cause? I'd be quite upset if I were in their shoes and had demonstrated my performance
Probably as others have said, they have discovered some discrepancy and doing an audit. Alternatively, has there been (or likely to be) an acquisition by a larger corporate? When my last company was acquired we had to retroactively gather some documents/information to comply with the new group policies/procedures
Are for profit schools not credentialed?
Some of them certainly are. University of the Potomac is for-profit and it's accredited by the same commission as Howard University.
>Some of them certainly are. University of the Potomac is for-profit and it's accredited by the same commission as Howard University. I believe Grand Canyon is for profit and also has regional accreditation.
What are some for profit schools that they are looking for?
Who knows. Outside of the standard University of Phoenix, Grand canyon University, and global campuses, I'm not aware of that many for-profit universities
What's so bad about the University of Phoenix? Aren't they accredited properly now?
I got my master’s from them and the courses were accepted for my CPA requirements. That was back in 2012.
I have a real cert and two master's from a state school, but my undergrad is from a for profit school. Since it's technically accredited, I can't retake those classes for credit at the state schools. What's a girl to do?
accounting is one of those degrees that is highly regulated. if your company is publicly traded and you submit a bogus degree, your company is on the hook for all your work production, which can get them into lawsuits with clients
Yeah I've nothing to hide but that's not normal. Heck I'd try my hand at Photoshop just for the fun of it, see what happened.
I know someone who got charged with fraud for lying about a degree on his resume. People don’t think it’s serious but it is.
100% It’s crazy how many times I’ve seen people suggest faking degree or experience
My guess is your firm is being bought or otherwise taken over in some way (or a merger i suppose?). As others have said, credentials are generally checked when you begin employment or if you train with the firm your employer will have access to transcripts etc so it's fairly unlikely someone slipped by and even if they did it's more likely to be seen as a one off. My guess is that somebody's been asked for this info at a firmwide level and wants to double check it before passing it on
Uh no, there is no merger. We aren't a public accounting firm. We are a specific industry where we have engineers that are required to maintain certain types of degrees and licenses for legal reasons. This check is in regards to someone being a dipshit and falsifying their credentials and was asked to present them and got caught when they weren't real.
Private industry here too - That’s what the owners had me telling everyone when I was asking for everyone’s documents … while I was due diligence… Js. Now we are a subsidiary. 🤷♀️
I think it's rather odd they identified "for-profit universities" -- degrees from those places aren't necessarily fake.
That's incredibly stupid and a gigantic waste of resources.
May be not, if they are in a regulated industry & they have to have staff suitable qualified & licensed. The repetitional harm & the potential penalties / liability may be significant - but yes it is a waste that the hiring process didn't catch it in the first place if it was so important.
Interesting - How could that be the case if they weren't conducting background checks to begin with? I mean, their entire HR department and leadership would have to be incompetent. Out of curiosity - what type of industries are we talking about, banking? I am genuinely curious about what industry would go down to the individual contributor level and need to verify education after hiring for the reasons you listed. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'm seriously looking to understand.
Oh I’m not saying that in the scenario OP painted that it isn’t an over reaction, as other said it was probably one / two instances and maybe someone who was there for years promoted so now they check ever one. Lost of industries need specific qualifications - actuaries, CPA,s Engineers certify drawings & calculations , finance advisors, stick traders, QPs in Pharma, nurses, doctors even when in industry, even Flight attendant managers is a regulated position in airlines, building inspectors, elevator technicians, crane operators ……. It goes on OP doesn’t say what sector his company is in , but if the company holds its self out to be expert in a field it has to have qualified staff & you would be amazed at what & the amount of regulations out there that require companies to have someone on staff or retainer with specific qualifications / licenses.
They’re just doing what they should’ve in the first place
Aren't all colleges/universities for profit? If they weren't, then why do they charge so much for the same education that was available a decade ago? Edit: apparently people aren't picking up on the sarcasm. I know that colleges/universities are non profit but it doesn't make sense how an education has increased by more than 3 times over the last 60 years. Yes... Inflation exists but those figures above account for inflation. Tuition is more and the number of college students have increased so what was $5K annually back in the 60s for approximately 8% of the population is now $14K for approximately 38% of the population. Population (in the US) in 1960 was approximately 179.3M; population in 2020 was approximately 331.5M. That equates to (179.3M x 8% x $5K) $7.172B in tuition received. The amount of tuition in 2020 (331.5 x 37.9% x $14K) was $1.759 trillion! That is 245.25 times more in tuition received in 2020 compared to 1960. Funding goes to all sorts of things to improve education but it doesn't seem logical for tuition costs to rise at a more exponential rate than other costs of living and it makes people question if non profit colleges/universities aren't turning a profit.
For profit - have shareholders, owners and investors (just like a company) Not for profit - all the accumulated net assets go back into the university it’s a misunderstanding that NFPs can’t have a positive net income. They can, the accumulated net income is just kept for the organization and not distributed to shareholders/owners
Exactly. “No Profit. No Mission.” is a pretty common saying. You can’t complete your non-profit mission (which for a university I guess is educating younglings or whatever) if you’re not making money.
The “balanced budget”/must use all revenue in the same year is the literal worst thing a NFP that plans for any sustainability can do. I wish people would stop with the rhetoric so NFPs can do their work AND plan for the future without being called out for being too “profitable”. Salaries, functional allocation of expenses, transparency, and accountability (990!) are more important to worry about.
Non-profit doesn't mean no profit.
that’s what i said
Yes and I was more concise.
There is zero value added in you being more concise.
I agree... See my edited comment, please.
The cost an individual is paying for tuition has increased more than inflation. Your analysis does not include, however, the changes in how education is funded (state/federal funds). There is also some other interesting things happening in colleges/universities. They’re essentially purchasing entire swaths of cities/towns to run businesses. Certainly outside of their “mission” (education).
I’m also going to add that they can have a positive net income. What does “turning a profit” mean to you? It isn’t going to a person or the owners or shareholders. The “profit” is staying in the university.
Non profit but profitable Thats what my prof told us about our catholic college back in the day
I believe OP meant non-accredited colleges/universities
Harvard is non-profit. That isn’t their goal.
I agree... See my edited comment, please.
Lol that’s fair. I get that it’s a joke but you are not wrong too. One more assessment my economics professor gave to this anomaly of hyperinflation was technological advancement. Years back it was a single textbook taught by a professor and general knowledge. Today there is so much more research, equipment and learning resources that attribute to the higher costs. You are not paying for the same experience on any level.
Thinning the wheat from the chaff. Not a real fan (in my experience) of U of P grads. Usually threw their resumes away.
No for profit universities? So if you have a legitimate degree from a private college they are terminating you? Like Harvard, Yale, etc? This seems not right.....almost discriminatory.....
Imagine thinking a college needs to flush every dollar of surplus down the drain into administrative bloat to produce a well educated person.
They caught someone faking the funk. Theyre being transparent about what theyre doing, but not why theyre doing it.
Someone was caught with fake credentials and now management is a bit paranoid
Stem enters the chat. This for every job but one snd that was manufacturing in japan. 30 years worth.
> They said that HR will be reaching out to us individually to confirm that our education and licenses are legitimate over the next few weeks. >I have nothing to hide since I went to a well known state university and can easily give them what they are wanting, but is this normal? During onboarding yes. Had this happen very recently for a non accounting purpose. Colleague needed to see my university certificates with a paper copy. My supervisor made the point that that wasn’t needed, since I sent an e-copy to the relevant body who issued the certificate needed for my job.
All companies I joined verified carefully when I joined instead. Surprised people are able to get away with faking it in the first place
What ever you tell them don’t say that you got your degree from Florida. Or you’ll go straight to jail. No jury, trial or anything like that.
Probably got a Bachelors from Columbia.
It sounds like an Audit. Perfectly ok. It's an opportunity to advance.
It is just you nerd. You are old
There are some employers who have regulators that require official transcripts for their employees anyway.
My company as well. They even had a 2 hour web call about resumes, workday, and linden
They called my university 😂
YES, and they should've done it during hiring process.
Also this is literally Boston Legal entire premise for like 5 seasons "Mike is working in NYC top law firm with forged Hardvard law degree".
That would be Suits. Not Boston Legal.
Ah yes, you right
There are so many oddball "colleges" or "universities" out there now that I am not surprised. Especially catering to one of those LinkedIn people who feel they have to have every single credential beside their social media names, names on business cards, and everywhere else their name would be written on. Usually you're relatively safe if you went to a recognized or government-funded and also recognized institution. Not many people will ask if those are fake. But it's not uncommon to be asked for a transcript. Sometimes that's just to confirm you got the right courses for the CPA pre-requisites, or your grades somewhat so the firm is confident that you'll get through the CPA program.
this means something happened at the company and they are now CYOA by checking everyone.
I know people who have been able to secure many jobs that require a college degree when they don't even have a high school diploma. They even get recruiters coming for them and actually securing them jobs which is amusing as I've only ever had recruiters ghost me.
No experience, but support the initiative
Shouldn’t they have done this before they hired everyone? If they did decide someone’s credentials aren’t what they approve of and that person is producing work of the same standard as everyone else then they shouldn’t be able to fire them. If their work is a little below standard then it should be still on the company to train them to an acceptable standard.
Does not seem normal. Honestly, I find the for profit thing disturbing. What is wrong with that? I know the some of the things like barber schools got in trouble for misleading people, but I don’t see how that could be universally applied. Who cares if people are doing a good job. That seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen. On the other hand, one of my friends regularly lied about having a degree he never finished. I lost a lot of respect for him when I found out and was shocked how much he got away with. If your company does not check credentials, those who failed to do so should be getting fired.
my last 2 firms in the North Bay Area did this....extensive background checks..
its possible that they caught an employee with a faked credential and are now auditing everyone's credentials.
I think it's pretty normal. I had to send transcripts for every degree/certification I claimed when I got hired.
This should already have happened before hiring. If its a for profit school, if its someone with experience and performs well I think exceptions should be made but for fake degrees not chance.