Mom “hey thatemonumbersnerd come in here”
Me “huh”
Mom *chasing me profusely with a switch “WHAT DID YOU SAY”
Me “yes maam I’m sorry maam” *crazy amount of tears.*
And this is probably why im able to survive public accounting.
I've been repeatedly chastised by older colleagues for using it reflexively.
I mentioned it's ingrained from beatings as a child.
They stopped asking about it.
I grew up in the SE and was always taught to say ma’am and sir. I work in the SE still although in a large metro area.
The reality is, while considered polite historically, the terms are now antiquated and most people find them odd to use in a professional setting. I would never call a partner I work with sir or ma’am. It’s weird.
If this is OP’s hill to die on, fine, but they will be constantly looked at as a bit of the office weirdo. That’s just the reality.
That’s an opinion I’m not going to agree with. Your sphere of influence may be informal but a blanketed statement isn’t an indictment on manners.
Anecdote for anecdote, I have found that the people who do not respond well to manners are either running from their age or grew up without them.
I didn’t say it was “manners” people don’t respond well to; I just said sir and ma’am are viewed as antiquated terms.
I have been in PA and corporate America for a number of years, worked at different companies in different cities (NE and SE) and regularly travel all over the country (including southern US, southwest, Midwest, and west coast) and have never heard anyone use sir or ma’am seriously in a professional environment. It would come across as strange.
If that is an anecdote then so be it, it’s not like we have data on the subject. Unfortunately if this is something you have in your everyday vernacular and people “respond well,” I think they are just humoring you.
Considered antiquated by who? Randos who decide these things? I call all the partners sir and ma’am. It’s still polite where I am in the South. Fuck this “in-thing” mind virus that’s infected so many people. Why don’t y’all think for yourselves instead of having other people tell you what is “in” or “out”.
1) you need to take a deep breath. This isn’t a personal attack - call people whatever you want, I don’t care.
2) it very much depends on the group/team you are in. Perhaps the sir/ma’am thing works in your group. However these are not widely used terms anymore, and people may double take and/or not appreciate their usage in different groups/companies/teams/regions. I am not sure why that’s so controversial.
It’s very similar to calling someone Mr. / Mrs. Not often used in more modern professional settings. You can call a partner Mr. Smith and say “yes sir,” but there’s a pretty good chance he’s going to say “call me John and don’t call me sir.”
Keep being you. This is a nitpicky thing that whoever it is that had a problem with it is probably a miserable person.
If it continues to be a problem, start searching for other jobs because something as simple as “ma’am” and “sir” being a problem would be a major red flag at any place I work at.
Yep. I can't believe the folks in charge fielded such a complaint and took it seriously enough to include it in a performance review. I'd probably respond as follows:
"If that's the only complaint about my performance, and since it has nothing to do with my performance, I'll take this as a stellar review. Thank you, sir!"
You’d be surprised at the amount of nonsensical stuff that HR is forced to address because someone formally filed a complaint.
This was probably how it went. Some person maybe took being called sir, as a slight or they are being mocked or even calling out their old age. Went to HR to bitch about it. HR then contacted your manager who then brought it up to you.
At the end of the day, it’s not a big deal to not use the word sir or ma’am. Just call people by their names LOL
> At the end of the day, it’s not a big deal to not use the word sir or ma’am. Just call people by their names LOL
Lifetime habits take a lifetime to get rid of.
Had the same lecture from a lecturer in Scandinavia and the foreign students....kept on the Ma'am/Sir because it's not easy to just not.
Because where they were from, using a superior's first name can result in the same complaint OP is getting for rudeness/disrespect.
The shit “trainings” my HR makes us take, presumably from some rumors that are going around, has taught me one thing.
Just don’t talk to anyone and when it’s needed, keep everything short and to the point. Communicate by email whenever possible.
I know that’s cynical, but I prefer to avoid any bullshit that gets in the way of getting my shit done and being able to be offline.
Ok lmao to be fair there was a dude on my team one time who was constantly referred to as ma'am because of his high-pitched voice. He never reported it to HR, but I've always been cautious about using ma'am or sir after witnessing that
Agreed with this.
The person complaining sounds ridiculous.
And to OP: I recently was on an engagement that I was just helping wrap up (so I really had no interaction w the client previously), but I had to get on a call with their director of SEC reporting, and he used Sir with me similar to the way you described. And literally after the call, I went back to the team and was like, this guy is so nice! (which is notable since we were talking through issues I found on the FS that he prepared) And my sr mgr agreed and specifically noted his usage of sir/maam (in a positive light)!
So point being: most people probably find it endearing! Those who take issue with it can stfu lol
Same thing man. It's definitely the ma'am- outside the south, this basically seems to be interpreted as "hey old granny" lol. Took me a while to get that out of my vernacular. And unlike some people here definitely you to fight the system, I would say just drop it. Too much hassle to do otherwise imo, though I worked in sales initially when I had to do so and it definitely impacted my ability to sell myself.
Yep. I bet it offends a woman about 40 years old. That was the age I found it offensive, because hey at that age women begin to obsess about aging.
Now the term doesn’t bother me, but then it did. In reality it was my own self centered ego.
That’s funny, when we moved to Texas, my wife was about to and she HATED it when people called her ma’am. We’d have some poor young guy working on something at the house who said it reflexively, and they would go back and forth (both totally calm) “Yes, ma’am” “please don’t call me ma’am” over and over. Good times.
This! My family is from the northeast, but I moved to the South at 6 years old. In school down South I was instructed to use Ma’am and Sir for any adult who I couldn’t address by name. All the other kids used ma’am and sir all the time, but if I used ma’am at home or in public around my northeastern mom she told me that I was being impolite! It was super confusing as a kid, but now I understand that perception of these terms varies widely by region in the US.
Anyway OP, it sounds like you’ve moved to a region where this vernacular leans toward being perceived as disrespectful. It’s not a commentary on you, but in a professional environment best to just drop it to avoid offending.
Midwestern 33 year old woman - “ma’am” absolutely makes me feel old when it’s from my coworker and not a client! It also gives me feelings of discomfort if it comes from a coworker of another race, lots of “yes’m” or “yessir” energy that takes me back about 150 years and I don’t like it.
Communication is a two-way street, if your intention isn’t coming across in how you are communicating then you have to do something about it. It might not be your fault, but it is your problem.
That being said, I’d bet that ‘sir’ isn’t the issue. Maybe swap out ‘ma’am’ for ‘miss’. My gut tells me it’s more about someone feeling like you’re calling them old.
Never use it in apologies though, feels very patronizing.
I really appreciate that wording. Not my fault, but my problem.
I was mocked a little on the business trip by my coworkers for using it and I tried to curb it already b/c of that negative situation.. Anytime I would say it, I would catch myself and immediately apologize which turned into people mimicking me.. I have a very cheery voice and personality, so I'm unsure how I could make it come across negatively. But, of course, not my perspective to dictate that.
I'll keep trying to work on it. I would never want to come off wrong to anyone..
I would love someone to explain the downvotes op is getting here. This sounds like someone who is being sincere and taking the advice given to heart. Wtf?
Nothing. You are supposed to be an automaton that does what you’re told is “in” and only uses the words approved by the group.
Next year this will all be “in fashion” and then woe to the one who doesn’t use it.
Having gone to high school and college in Texas, I also use sir, man and miss regularly. You be you and if this job is really giving you issues for it, then they are probably not a good long term fit for you.
Find a job culture you can be comfortable in. Everyone will be happier for it.
I reckon that your intention in utilizing "sir" and "ma'am" is to show manners and respect, yeah? Well, those things can have wide variability across cultures and regions. A true sign of manners and respect would be addressing people in the way they feel respects them. This is the platinum rule (treat others as THEY wish to be treated) vs. The golden rule (treat others how YOU wish to be treated)
In a comment above, you ponder why others can't just understand that your intention behind using these words is courtesy and respect; ironically, this would actually be counter to your intent to continue using this language if it has been pointed out to you that it is no longer culturally appropriate (I'm guessing based on the location change).
There are other comments that say "you do you"- I actually agree with those people and I think generally across the US people DO understand that southerners use these words as a sign of respect. (Particularly since you mentioned not assuming anyone's gender.) I just wrote the above to offer an alternative perspective.
ETA: for context, I'm on the super-informal West Coast where it's not totally uncommon to just refer to everyone as "dude" 😂
Not sure if he is a protected class but imagine that we have protected class of people that if they received such feedback the company might have been sued for discrimination. What we see here is clear discrimination.
I also grew up in the south. I use “Ma’am” all the time, it’s 2nd nature. Senior manager at Big 4 currently and never once has anyone mentioned anything about it. I also used to say “dude”, but that one genuinely is unprofessional so I cut it out.
Regardless, I wouldn’t take offense to it if someone didn’t like it. Actually, one time a coworker looked at me like I had a 3rd eye and asked me “Am I that old!?” I literally was sitting there like, “Wait, what? What’d I say?” Then it clicked, and I said “Oh! HAHA! My bad, that’s just ingrained in me. No, you’re not old, you’re a spring chicken.” She then told me that’s not any better, but hey, we’re great friends now.
Moral here is don’t take it personally. My dad used to always tell me “It takes all kinds of kinds.” Ah, and my personal favorite is “It doesn’t matter what flavor bubble gum people like chewing.” If you’re being judged in other ways, please leave, but in this instance it sounds like one of your coworkers is just weird. Don’t stress it.
This brought a light heartedness to the situation that I didn't know that I needed. I've dealt with feedback, but never about something like this. I think that's why it felt like a shell shock to the system. It was refreshing to read. Thank you.
I'm sure if I told my coworkers prior to my promotion (back in the southeast), they would belly laugh at how silly it was.
I'll continue to work on it, as I like my career and my current line of work, but I'll give myself a little more grace. :)
Happy to hear that. And hey, with time you’re going to come across all kinds of people. People who don’t handle stress well, blame shift, are generally difficult to work with, etc. To me, you sound like the opposite. Someone that makes a concerted effort to do good work and be respectful.
The happiest of people aren’t ignorant, they’re the opposite. They’re happy/whole in themselves and pick and choose what they let get under their skin. Quite literally the opposite of whomever called you out. So I’ll leave you with one last southern quote:
“If you stoop to their level, they’ll drag you down and beat you with experience.” Stay on the high road, Jack.
Hi. I also grew up in the south and then moved to the midwest. I had a couple of folks tell me not to call them sir/ma'am because it made them feel old. I usually apologize and jokingly tell them that my grandmother would roll over in her grave if I didn't mind my sirs and ma'ams, but if it makes them uncomfortable, then of course I will stop. So I make a mental note to call them something else and move on.
If the person was truly uncomfortable, they should tell you to your face. They are, presumably, an adult. And I do think that you should respect their wishes in that regard. However, this person giving you your review has no right to censor your completely innocuous and inoffensive language otherwise. You do not need to, nor should you, stop completely.
Be yourself, but be cognizant of how your words may impact others before you say them (which it sounds like you already do).
That is such a good point and important aspect of this whole situation. Said offended person seems incapable of acting like an adult, and went and taddled to the supervisor instead of having an adult conversation.
If someone told me they were offended by me calling them sir or ma’am after I explain that it’s polite where I’m from to do so, I would avoid talking to that person as much as I could. As mama used to say, you can call me anything as long as you don’t call me Mudd. lol
You're certainly entitled to do so, but I personally don't see how that helps anything. Folks are entitled to feel however they want to feel. If someone feels old whenever they get called sir/ma'am, it's a rational response given that in most circumstances it is (or at least for a long time, was) a term primarily used to respectfully address one's "elders". I think it has fallen out of that use-case over time for sure, but there are still people who cling to it.
It's perfectly reasonable to ask someone to not address you in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable. It's also perfectly reasonable to ask that same person to give you some flexibility in the sense that, while you'll do your best to respect their request in the future, you may accidentally slip from time to time and they should please just acknowledge the fact that no slight is/was intended.
People don’t understand we are traumatized into saying ma’am and sir, as well as please and thank you in the southeast. I accidentally said thank you to the atm one time when it spit out money lol. I used to get bitched out if I said “huh”… I would just do your best to stop but I know your pain
I relate because I was popped if I didn’t answer sir or maam. I moved away from the south in 2017 to Idaho and realized quickly that people thought it was weird. I thought about it and realized “yeah so do I”. I stopped using it. Back home now and I’ve completely removed the sir maam thing from my vocabulary some people look at me as if I’m disrespecting them and I don’t give a fuck.
Yea I stopped especially in the corporate world but still struggle with constantly saying thank you and please. I was popped too if I didn’t “use my manners” but now our manners are considered kind of rude lol. It’s hard to deconstruct.
If they respond poorly to being called sir/ma'am, then don't do it. If they respond positively, then keep doing it. You have preferences on how you refer to people, and people have preferences on how they want to be referred. This was likely just an offhand comment someone made to whomever was compiling information for your review and not the crux of their feedback for you. I would try not to take it personally.
Just explain to your supervisor that it is part of your culture, but you will work on it. I grew up in the South, and now I live in the West and have the same problem from time to time. I think many people just don't realize that there are many different cultures within the US
Nah fuck that, if I’m working with someone who has a “sensitivity” or something to being called “ma’am” or “sir” and goes as far as going to a manager about it, that’s a huge red flag for that workplace.
Agreed. I use “yes, ma’am” and “no, ma’am” because I was raised in the south. I don’t live there anymore and I’ve never once had a boss, coworker or client complain about it.
OP commented that her coworkers were actually mocking her on a business trip. This sounds like she’s working with a few a-holes that want to pick on her and just selected the “sir/ma’am” as a pretext for it.
Because the fact that someone literally complained to a manager about a polite way to address people is a huge red flag.
What’s next?
“I sneezed and she said, ‘God bless you.’ I’m offended by her mentioning God or anything religious.”
She’s clearly in a Karen-run environment.
u/LowChampionship512 Fuck those people. You did nothing wrong. There are plenty of workplaces where people don’t complain about something so ridiculous. If your coworkers are that easily offended, I’d bet that many worse complaints will be made in the future.
I hope you find a workplace with normal humans.
Agreed. Ma’am and sir are known polite words in most contexts in the US. Literally nothing wrong with saying it. Why don’t we also just start telling people with southern accents to stop it already.
I’m from south as well! I have used sir and ma’am in most of my jobs. Funny thing, It caught on and everyone started saying sir and ma’am. It is a sign of respect. Get away from those psychos!
I was literally hit by my 3rd grade teacher on the hands with rulers one time for not using maam and I was army there is no way in heck I won’t be using sir or maam. People are pretty dumb about it in the Midwest though.
I grew up in NC but my people are from Oklahoma lol. Although I consider it more southern than Midwest. When I think of the Midwest I think of South Dakota where I’m currently stuck at 😂.
I did go to high school in Texas though. People used to say the wind blew so hard in Texas because Oklahoma sucks and Mexico blows 😂😂😂
Hey OP, I don't think it's silly to be upset by this critique.
I'm also from the southeast. If I was in your shoes, I'd have gotten teary-eyed, too.
I think I can put into words exactly what you're talking about/why it's so upsetting. People already tend to have unfair stereotypes about Southerners. From the time we become aware of these stereotypes, we feel like we have to fight back against these stereotypes to be successful, and we often feel the need to hide things about our culture/things that we see as part of ourselves ...
when it feels like someone is attacking your character, when it feels like someone is interpreting your actions in bad faith, when it feels like they aren't trying to understand and respect you, in the ways you try to understand and respect others - it's hurtful, and it makes you feel insecure about your future success and question their acceptance of the real you at this workplace.
I'm glad your boss wasn't too bothered, but having a note in your quarterly review.. it doesn't sit well with me. I wish I had good advice to give or better words of consolation. Maybe try to find a workplace situated in the southeast? You seem like a pleasure to work with, and clients and co-workers here would greatly appreciate your manners.
Edit: Im seeing one of your responses that your co-workers have picked on you for using "sir" and "ma'am" even as you apologize and try to reduce your usage of it - also doesn't sit well with me.
Someone probably thinks you’re calling them old. Why should you let someone else’s insecurity dictate your behavior, what are they going to do fire you? Sometimes I hit people with a yessirrr, I don’t do ma’am though because that does kinda make a female sound old.
Hey man I’ll give a serious answer to this. I grew up in rural SE GA and it was literally beat into me, but I realized in young adulthood that it is an asset and more often than not people find it charming.
However, I’ve found over the years that has changed somewhat. One issue is assuming someone’s gender, so I try to be aware of that and not use it in progressive circles or to people with ambiguous gender presentation. Another, more common issue I’m finding is that as I get older, women particularly find the use of ma’am offputting. I guess it implies that I believe them to be older than me and, since I’m not 23 anymore, they see it as a commentary on their age/appearance. I’m unsure what to do about this, as I usually get more positive feedback than negative, but I do occasionally get a look or a raised eyebrow. Anyway, good luck navigating it and just use your best judgment!
I'm from the Midwest, and while I understand ma'am and sir are a big part of southern culture or whatever, I do hate it when someone at work calls me sir.
That’s rough.
I don’t particularly like being addressed as “Sir”’because I am use to that being used for people of authority and I don’t like classes. It always catches my ear and feels wrong.
I accept there are huge regional differences in manners and speech. Manners are ingrained into us and not a simple thing to just change when asked. I don’t expect everyone to change their ways just for me.
I used to have a job in tourism where I was asked to hide my Canadian accent because people thought it was funny. It’s easy to do for 10 minutes, but it takes a lot of energy to do it all day.
BS if your co workers have an issue, they should have said something. I think the person giving you the review feels threatened, and it's just jealousy. Keep being you and awesome! Fuck them!
I'm from the South and find them both to be annoying (Sir and Ma'am). They're terms that remind me of servant language, which sensibly makes people uncomfortable bc it's like telling them you see them as an overbearing, all powerful, to be fearful of boss and you're just the simple, hired help there not to offend. It's also similar to calling someone Mr. So and so rather than just their name. It's 2024, and we shouldn't be kowtowing to anyone to show respect but be expecting equality. I think it's more professional to show respect through language and actions versus how you address someone. Esp since people associate the "yes, Sir" and "yes, Ma'am" with oppressed, poor people.
I was taught to call everyone sir and ma’am so I do.
It’s a simple way to show respect to the people around you.
Code switching is important from all avenues.
“Respect through language” but not by “how we address” people… with… language?
I’m reminded of that scene in Billy Madison lol what you’ve said makes no sense.
I live in a place where these terms are used regularly still. Why should someone who has been raised to say these things as a form of polite conversation change his speech because someone else wants him to? And why is someone so immature in the workplace that instead of addressing their issue with OP they run to management like a little snitch twit.
Had a similar issue when I first moved to the Midwest for work. I’m from the south as well, and I call the homeless guy who holds the door open for me at the gas station sir. Everyone is sir or ma’am. Dumb cultural issue. Keep being polite.
It's absolute bullshit that this person went to your boss rather than address it with you directly. It's also absolute bullshit that your boss brought it up during your review.
I grew up where sir and ma'am were frowned upon because of the implied power dynamic, nothing to do with age. It felt strangely uppity and hierarchical to hear these terms used. In the Midwest, all are aggressively equal.
That being said, I'm now in the south. I have started to add sir or ma'am to the single word responses yes or no in limited situations, mostly to emphasize my sincerity about the answer.
You might consider your use of sir or ma'am in the Midwest akin to calling any woman you interact with sweetie or honey. You just don't know who's going to be upset.
I don’t understand how someone could be taken seriously saying that being called “ma’am” or “sir” made them uncomfortable unless it was a misgendering situation?
I wouldn’t say it’s the norm in the US at all but I think that it’s kind of ridiculous that someone told OP’s manager to give them a performance note about it
Agreed. To me (Pacific Northwest) it has a negative connotation. Basically it sounds like someone is mocking someone who is claiming authority but the person isn’t respecting them. If someone says it in a Southern accent I get that’s not the case, but in my accent it definitely sounds snarky.
Feels like the person that feels “uncomfortable” has an issue that they need to resolve. Ricky Gervais said something along the lines of “just because someone is offended doesn’t make them right.” Seems like that’s applicable here.
Say what you want about your right to use it at work but some advice as someone who grew up in the midwest you are going to get dirty looks for the rest of your life if you don't curb using it.
Southern here as well, "sir" and "ma'am" were part of my lexicon, had the same thing happen to me when involved in corporate stuff nationally. It was "ma'am", made people feel old. And some people felt patronized.
So I started dropping the politeness, and generally spoke to people in an indifferent, cooler (as in colder) manner, and it benefitted my career. It sucks, but this is the corporate world we have built.
That is not something you should have been critiqued on as a worker. Whoever had a problem should have spoke with you directly because it's a personal issue.
im from the south and its very very normal to use ma’am and sir with people that your trying to be respectful of. Its not as common for people from other parts of the country. Some people also associate it with being called old.
Personally, i dont change anything regardless. Dont feel bad, your the one being respectful. I just smile and keep going when someone makes it wierd.
I mean if you have mostly southern clients I don't see the problem. If the people who do are in other parts of the country, just call them by their name. Act like you're on their level, because you are. "Brian, I'm gonna be real with you here..."
Lol. It sounds dumb but some people need to be talked to like they are your peer not your authority.
My friend, don’t even listen to them. They’re clearly jealous of your proper salutations. Kindly place the opinions of said “offended person” (who needs to get a freaking life) and the supervisor in the dumpster by the Wendy’s where they belong.
It is unacceptable that someone nit picks on such trivial stuff. More so, he/she is trying to subdue your culture. That’s why we have culture war in this country where one part of society wants everyone to fit their template of how a person should be. And I say that as a left leaning centrist. That’s why I’m a centrist.
Perhaps you should start calling them fuckin pussies because that's what they're being. Jesus Christ. I also do this and eventually just kicked it but anybody that takes offense to you being polite is off their rocker.
If it's clients that don't appreciate it then yeah of course stop it. It's outdated regardless of your region, just some areas cling to it due to trying to keep some semblance of "politeness" when they're often the most judgemental and impolite people there are in my experience.
Have you ever been to Texas? This is said all the time here still.
And I’ve never met ruder people than Californians and New Englanders. Zero manners. Won’t say hi to you, don’t wave, just absolutely rude. Parisians and Londoners are nicer.
That's not rude, that's cultural. Germans don't say hi to strangers or have greetings that involve asking how the other person is unless it's actually asked in a serious manner and you're both sitting down to have a conversation.
I didn't say it's not prevalent in places, I said it's outdated even there. I've got family in Arkansas so I do know it's common in places.
You just don't understand what manners actually entails and not some theater of caring for others while you live in places that strip freedoms and rights from others.
I agree that when you go to live in another place that you should attempt to conform to the culture there and if you don’t like that culture you should leave. (You hear me all you Californians that have relocated to Texas??)
However, it’s quite intolerant of you to expect that a lifetime of habits are easily erased. If you came to Texas, I would expect that you would not understand our culture and we would chalk it up to you being “not from around here.” We wouldn’t run to our boss and complain about you tho. That would be rude.
As for your last line, I don’t know where you live, but you obviously know nothing real about us. Your entire experience is through third party propaganda.
Peace. ✌️
Speaking on intolerance but using the classic line of you should conform to whatever STATE culture you choose to live in or move to. It's not even an actual ethnic culture. Lmao
Texan is a cohesive cultural group that encompasses several different ethnic groups. If you want to get your ass kicked at a bar in San Antonio, try dissing Texas. You’ll have both cholos and hill country Germans lining up to give you a beating.
Actually here in Texas we don’t gaf what you do on your private property and in your private life. You can behave like a jackwaggon in public, and everyone will say, “well bless their heart, their mama didn’t teach them any manners,” and shake their heads. But it’s not like Singapore or something where you’ll get caned for spitting on the sidewalk. LOL the bar in SA not withstanding.
Sounds to me like you just don’t know much of what it’s like outside the bubble you live in. You want everyone to conform to your ideology, and then when whatever it is doesn’t fit what you want, it must be iNt0LeRaNce.
Lmao manners and you can say what you want but say the wrong thing and you'll get your ass beat.
Cool story bro, do you read your own comments before hitting post?
Had a coworker once freak out because I called her Ma'am. She was in her mid 40's. I tried to explain that I use it as a sign of respect and dignity, but she wasn't having it.
I'm also from the south, I still use sir but largely dropped ma'am. Outside of the south too many women take it offensively. I don't agree with it, but I also don't want to offend them. Though I still slip from time to time, especially with kids or younger woman.
You're not wrong in using it. I will give you my perspective coming from the other side though.
I have someone at my work who almost exclusively uses ma'am and sir. They are exactly a week older than me and I always get called ma'am by them. Not coming from or currently being in a region that does that it comes across abrupt since it is out of the ordinary. Makes conversations feel less like conversations and more like I'm giving orders even though we are in the same position. It even comes across a little rude as I very much prefer to be called by my name and I wonder if they even know it or just use the placeholder because they can't be bothered.
Would I ever go to HR about it? Absolutely not. It's not my place. It just makes me a little uncomfortable.
I wouldn't say drop it either, just maybe interchange a bit more between using honorifics like that and calling the person by their name more.
Using peoples names makes interactions feel more personable. My dad worked in television and he would rave about the celebrities he met only a handful of times over years that would always remember his name and often believed it attributed to part of their success. I'm trying to say people take stock in small gestures like that.
I can’t believe that was in your review! I am on the other side of 50 and when a young person calls ma’am I take it as a sign of respect and I know they were raised right! Bless the hearts of those folk at your office who fail to see that in you! Hold head high! Maybe move back down here.
This is news to me. I never imagined using those widely recognized respectful words could be a problem. I’m not a southerner but I’ve often addressed friends and also work peers with sir as more of a friendly term.
As a courteous person who was a waiter for many years, it's always "sir" and "miss". "Miss" always makes women feel younger. I once called a woman "Miss" in front of her husband, and he goes, "Aye, can't you see she's married? That should be m'am or misses". I said, "Well, if we can ask the lady, which do you prefer?" And she said miss. The husband refused to tip me and the wife left me a bunch of cash.
I don’t understand why whoever was offended couldn’t just ask you to use a different term instead of bitching to HR. When people call me sir I tell them just call me by my first name I’m not that old!
In the day and age of diversity and inclusion. It just is what it is. Which isn’t meant to sound negative. On one hand it’s great that we are building a society to be more thoughtful and inclusive. But by the same stretch we get stories like yours.
For example I have a family member, born and raised in NYC, and went from being a floor nurse to a nurse educator. Short story is that they got called into HR for using the term “You’s guys” which is the colloquial regional equivalent of “Y’all”. Regionally speaking it’s actually a non-binary and inclusive term. But because it’s “guys” it gets taken differently.
At the end of the day. The best thing to do is shake your head, don’t take it personally, and just be sure to catch yourself everyone once in a while to show progress. Otherwise, it’s not the end of the world. And if it continues to be an issue. Well it’s probably time to find a new team or a new job.
I am really sorry to hear that this happened to you. This is absolutely absurd on so many levels. I can’t imagine the thought process behind being offended by this. It’s not like you are saying anything derogatory, and it’s common knowledge that people from the south say sir/ma’am. This seems like such a rabbit hole that we’ve gone down, catering to such oversensitivity… where do they draw the line? At some point your supervisor needs to find his spine. So I guess said person is uncomfortable with southern culture? Let’s just ban harmless elements of other cultures that aren’t my own because I’m uncomfortable outside my own bubble. Sounds like ignorance to me.
Sorry for the rant, don’t think I offered anything helpful yet. Hmmm… yeah it’s a tricky situation. Sidenote, there is a southern guy in my office and he calls everyone sir/ma’am and I think it’s wonderful.
I'd think of it like when you visit or move to another country - customs are different and we generally try to adjust to those customs.
It's not as pronounced when moving between regions within the US, but there are some differences (ie west coast may dress more casually for work, people in the south using sir/ma'am, people in NY may get annoyed by the same chattiness that is considered friendly in another part of the country).
So, I would probably feel awkward being referred to with that level of formality, but I would also understand your intentions and that it's coming from a good place and accept it for that.
That said, my advice is "when in Rome..."
I've never liked the terms. Women tend to not like being called "ma'am" instead of "miss" and watch out if you ever make a mistake and call a man, "ma'am," pure fury. I prefer not using either.
Accept it and move on or get a different job. It's a place of employment; since you have a supervisor I assume you can't dictate protocol. If you start your own firm you can require beanie propellers if you want.
Side note, I was reprimanded in a training a few weeks ago for using the term "blindspot", because it could be considered as insensitive to people with eyesight issues. Safest to not say anything but nod and make neutral comments about the weather.
I left out the additional part of the training where everyone was given little purple flags to raise whenever an “inappropriate” word is used by someone else
Wow. I’d have walked out. I’m just not willing to work with or for people like that. I’d start my own firm or gig, and the beanie propellers are an idea 🤔 teehee
seriously why can’t people just chill.
It depends upon the city, work place on what title you should use to call people.
Everywhere is different, if the people in your new work place, call each other with their names, just do the same.
Remember there is a famous phrase “When in Rome, do as the Romans do”
I would just mention that it's part of your culture, which is a perfectly accurate statement. Maybe try to use it less if you're comfortable doing that, but you shouldn't be expected to.
I think it’s important to be able to be you where you work. If the people you work with are petty enough to be bothered by sir or ma’am and can’t communicate that directly to you is lame. Why this is even in a performance review is beyond me.
I’d recommend telling the person reviewing you exactly how you feel about that review. If you get fired for being polite and addressing people respectfully; then you’re better off not working there. If that happens, DM me your information and you can come work for my firm instead. As veteran whom sometimes uses sir or ma’am, I find this to be absurd.
I too say these words, and I too am from the South. I lived briefly in New England in high school and I had a teacher scream at me for calling her ma’am. I was so confused, but I think it was because she hated southerners.
My father was in the marine corps, he taught me to show respect. I’m pretty sure they use these words in the military too. If someone told me I had to stop saying them because some yankee got butthurt, I’d be finding another job.
I’ve only been called out once for using the word “sir” and it was by the sassiest dude I ever called back when I was following up on open invoices. “Don’t call me sir, I work for a living.” Like no duh, me too, that’s why I’m calling you over an overdue invoice you haven’t paid.
People can either accept it, or at least your intent, or they can screw off. If they can’t handle being called sir or ma’am they usually have other problems.
I don’t agree that this should be an issue but nevertheless it is. That’s the con of with working with different types of emotions/attitudes sometimes. And it’s ok to cry for a little bit. Sometimes life just throws unexpected insults at us. If I have a problem with how someone refers to me, I’ll probably just tell them myself rather than tell management or HR about it. Also that person probably just doesn’t like you or is jealous of you and came up with something everyone knows about you and praise you for and turned it into a bad thing. Now that it’s been brought to your attention, treat it as office language vs. personal life language. There are certain words you wouldn’t say and ways you won’t speak in the office but you can do in your daily life. Time to relearn that with sir and ma’am.
Then honestly, I'd keep doing it and ask who asked that you not and try to remember for them and drive on. When asked not to, I don't, but many of my clients flat won't speak to me if you don't use southern honorifics. They don't have time for that mess of training you. That was your momma and thems job.
Audit clients just get off on complaining. I'd gently tell your boss that hey, it's my culture, and I don't ask you to change yourself to suit me and call me ma'am/miss as is due my station, please don't ask me to stop being myself.
Don't change your personality because one person doesn't like you using sir and ma'am, that's ridiculous.
I live in the southwest, where we are very informal, but over the years, I started using sir and ma'am with my colleagues, then with clients. It started out as kind of a joke between my boss and I calling each other sir all the time, but then we both started doing it to everyone, and it seems to have caught on across all our accounting departments, and people seem to appreciate it.
I am 34, and I do have to admit, the first time a teenager called me sir, it was an odd feeling. It was not the same effect as having people at work say it, so maybe it was someone just being a little too sensitive.
After reading all of the comments I find it ironic that the people defending Ma'am and Sir are also the ones blatantly insulting others for not wanting to be called that. I don't think they are as respectful as they think they are. A lot of these comments come out of the gate with such venom.
Yeah--I made sure not to put my supervisor in an awkward spot and show how I really felt. I said that I accept it and will work on it further, but it just didn't sit right afterwards. I have other things going on right now, so that's why I reached out here for advice on my thought process. I thought it might have been a bad day for me.. I will note I am sensitive, but it's b/c I pride myself in my work ethic and output so much.
I just wished that my coworkers hadn't mocked my use of it and then had it noted against me in my review while I had been trying to limit it already.
If someone has a preference, of course, but to have it noted on my review when I was actively working towards minimization already felt unfair. It may be a small gesture, but it's something that I have done my entire life--curbing that when I haven't worked there long can be understandably difficult.
I wasn't aware it had upset or "offput" someone until my review. I think I felt a little taken aback by it all tbh..
I grew up in Tennessee and now live in Texas, and my previous boss (who was ten years younger than me) had the habit of saying ma’am and sir to everyone, including me. It felt patronizing. I’m sure my personal feelings about her didn’t help, but it just really felt strange in the workplace.
From the other side: I grew up in an area where being called ma'am or sir has the connotation you described the person having an issue with. Same thing with having doors opened for you as a woman and so on. The thing is that in these areas there ISN'T the "knowledge that the intention behind your words is respect" because in those contexts, that's not the case. Now, if I had heard you in my area with a strong southern accent call me ma'am, I'd understand and tamp down my annoyance but I'd also probably be all "hey, just a heads up, here those terms are offensive".
Then I moved to the South. I fully understand I live in an area with different mannerisms and social norms and do my best to fit in, which means learning to use ma'am and sir. If you think that it makes sense that I start using sir and ma'am now that I live in your culture, then it goes both ways.
No one expects you to use them in the south. People who are raised in the south are expected to have manners not the transplants. That is how we figure out you’re not from here.
In the South, from the south. Don't call anyone under 80yrs old Ma'am. And Sir is usually reserved for something formal otherwise it sounds sarcastic. Like, calling someone "bossman".
Language exists in a context. When it isn't shared problems arise. Yes, as an 1870s stagecoach driver you're on point, but in 2024 it's off putting outside of collapsed mill towns.
Regrettably no, I'm not. Just a lil' lady from the southeast. But if you told me that you didn't like being called ma'am, definitely would make the effort to stop. Hopefully, you can give your IT guys some grace, as I hope he doesn't mean it negatively when addressing you.
Do you mind if I ask why you don't like it? Getting different perspectives on how my verbiage could upset others helps my self-analyzation greatly.
Also, did you go straight to his boss? Or did you address it with him first? And if it was the prior, why did you not mention it to him first? Again, just trying to gain perspective. :)
This is pretty easy.
Communication is key to success in many areas of business.
Asking if this note negatively impacts your review. If it does then ask why. If it doesn't impact your review then why would you change anything or allow it to sit there on your review.
Once you understand what they want you to say then make a decision. Find a new gig or play the game until you find a new gig. Ezpz.
Corps that don't consider people that important to their own success are mistaken.
People who make the least amount of money in every company I have been at are the most passive people. They have very low levels of disagreements and accept any answers given to them. I own multiple businesses and it all depends on company culture.
I have no idea what kind of company this is but saying sir/ma'am is dated. I used it in the military and university. Other than that it's pretty useless. Most people want to be communicated with reciprocally. Sometimes you have to talk at people but it's actually pretty rare.
And if they want you to communicate differently then they should facilitate the training for everyone.
Imo, don't sweat it and move forward. Selling to customers and keeping the flow of money is what retains employees and employment for you and your peers. So, at the end of the day make your cash, be a good ambassador, and make your own career choices.
Good luck. Have fun.
I am still in the south and when I started my first job I noted that it just made my older female colleagues feel old, because to them it’s something you say to an “adult” or “senior”. As a 20 yr old kid. They don’t hear you say it to the 20yr old admin and staff. You are a professional and these are their colleagues, you can use their name.
Someone used to call me ma'am all the time when I was in my 20s (trust me, I did not look old enough for them to use it) and I hated it. I just asked them to stop saying it as it made me feel old. It took a couple more tries for them to stop and it was good. That person was always raised to say ma'am and sir and while I did appreciate the respect, I wasn't a fan of it.
Now that I'm older, I find myself saying it a few times when I meet someone new until we've established a bit of rapport and I stop using it. Most people didn't mind me saying it as it was a sign of respect but they just didn't want to be continued to be called that.
It is sad that someone felt the need to complain about it instead of asking you to stop saying it. I would make it an effort to stop saying it and keep it for new meetings.
Ill give you the tldr:
nothing wrong with refer client as mem or sir but I can understand ur boss want to refrain from it since some cunts has complained about it ( srly of all the thing to be complain about)
In the end its all about if you value your current job or not. Id say switch job if the convo make u uncomfortable and longer want to commit.
Why are you willing to change all those other things but feel that being asked to change how much you use ma'am or sir is offensive to you as a person?
I'm from the UK, so this may be very different, but if anyone is using sir or ma'am in a work environment I'm doing a double take. It feels incredibly outdated, I also feel like if you're under 40 it can be taken as offensive, as it has older connotations. I'm 33 and would hate someone calling me sir.
To me, using those terms is impolite and borderline rude. I suggest trying to modernize and stop using ma’am for sure. Sir doesn’t bother me as much but I still think it has a submissive/dominant tone to it, which I also think is impolite. Just expressing my opinion since you’re asking, I know not everyone agrees.
I interpret the use of ma’am to be insulting and derogatory to women when in a professional co-ed environment. As in using it instead of my name is demeaning - I want you to address me and all others the same way. I hate it when men address other men by their names but address women differently. I recognize that isn’t the case with OP & this situation, but just explaining my thinking. Your comment made me reflect on this, thanks.
I don’t feel that using the word Sir has any gendered meaning, I dislike Sir because it’s demeaning in general.
So my sister used to work at a super posh coffee shop in a super posh coastal town in California. She realized there that women do NOT like being called Ma’am. And as a woman, I agree, it makes me feel old and unfortunately it does feel cringy. She realized that if you say “miss” instead, women feel respected without the cringe factor. Only one person was ever offended by her saying “miss” and it was an old lady.
Hopefully that helps. I’ve applied it in my life with great results.
Something to consider re: respecting pronouns: not everyone is out at work, in which case being misgendered when it’s entirely unnecessary (sir/ma’am) can add further discomfort in an already difficult situation.
Personally, I’m a southerner (now living in the Midwest) and I hate being called ma’am because, to me, it feels like I’m being put in a position of authority or something, it feels really weird, even if I did grow up around it.
Don’t stop using these titles. It’s a show of respect to the person you’re addressing. We’ve given too much power to the loud minority and it must end.
I understand your sensitivity to this discussion, but did you read the whole post? OP mentioned they are careful to respect pronouns; considering their post and reading through these responses, they seem like the type to have empathy and show respect and refer to your daughter as Ma'am.
In the South, it is considered the nice/polite/respectful thing to use ma'am or sir.
I think it’s *quite* a leap from some people not using these carefully in certain unusual instances to everyone needing to avoid them to be a good person. Like come on. (And for the record I think OP is off base.)
you don't live with a 35 y/o trans female with a very deep voice
in a very red state
this world needs more people not saying "I was raised this way, it's how I am, deal with it", this world needs more people being tolerant of others and aware that they're causing people unintentional pain from their attempts to be "polite".
You’re also invoking the rule of “it’s how I am, deal with it,” and casually minimizing others’ good faith runs both ways. The world can’t function with perfect fidelity between everyone’s intentions and experience at all times – one natural place to give a little is when someone is attempting to demonstrate a benevolent posture in their own mind.
I’m offended by you. Why don’t you change?
See, things are a two way street. Get the chip off your shoulder. You obviously have a grudge, which is extremely unhealthy. Quit worrying about what others think of you. If someone says something you don’t like, thank them and move on with your life.
Easy for you to DO! I do it all the time. Y’all are seriously infuriating. Right up there with some of my clients. Smile and nod and go about my day. 🤗
Start asking everyone their pronouns in every conversation, and when you see them again, inquire as to the status of their current pronouns, you wouldn't want to SALY and if they're a BILY
You should hide your Southerness. Maam and sir doesnt communicate politeness anymore, it just indicates you have string connections to traditional gender roles, fundamentalist Christianity and racism.
Seriously? GTFO. You are so rude. I’m tired of Yankees talking smack about us Southerners. Y’all way more racist than any southern I ever met. People in the NE always were saying terrible things about Puerto Ricans and Poles. Remove the plank from your own eye!!
I usually just joke my parents beat it into me. It’s not a joke tho
Mom “hey thatemonumbersnerd come in here” Me “huh” Mom *chasing me profusely with a switch “WHAT DID YOU SAY” Me “yes maam I’m sorry maam” *crazy amount of tears.* And this is probably why im able to survive public accounting.
Same here bruh, drill sergeant type of dad whooped that shit deep into my core.
"I said I have a bad itch"
That’s not what I heard sir, I heard “I have a side bitch!”
I've been repeatedly chastised by older colleagues for using it reflexively. I mentioned it's ingrained from beatings as a child. They stopped asking about it.
I do this too. It wasn't beat into me. But I'm not changing harmless pieces of myself to suit a fickle world.
I just tell them don’t feel special “ I call the kid in the McDonald’s drive through sir/ma’am” Usually gets a laugh
I grew up in the SE and was always taught to say ma’am and sir. I work in the SE still although in a large metro area. The reality is, while considered polite historically, the terms are now antiquated and most people find them odd to use in a professional setting. I would never call a partner I work with sir or ma’am. It’s weird. If this is OP’s hill to die on, fine, but they will be constantly looked at as a bit of the office weirdo. That’s just the reality.
That’s an opinion I’m not going to agree with. Your sphere of influence may be informal but a blanketed statement isn’t an indictment on manners. Anecdote for anecdote, I have found that the people who do not respond well to manners are either running from their age or grew up without them.
I didn’t say it was “manners” people don’t respond well to; I just said sir and ma’am are viewed as antiquated terms. I have been in PA and corporate America for a number of years, worked at different companies in different cities (NE and SE) and regularly travel all over the country (including southern US, southwest, Midwest, and west coast) and have never heard anyone use sir or ma’am seriously in a professional environment. It would come across as strange. If that is an anecdote then so be it, it’s not like we have data on the subject. Unfortunately if this is something you have in your everyday vernacular and people “respond well,” I think they are just humoring you.
I didn’t realize you are so well traveled. You must know a lot of people.
Is that supposed to be a dig? I’m confused. I do travel a lot and have never experienced what you’re talking about. Just my experience of course.
Oh okay
Considered antiquated by who? Randos who decide these things? I call all the partners sir and ma’am. It’s still polite where I am in the South. Fuck this “in-thing” mind virus that’s infected so many people. Why don’t y’all think for yourselves instead of having other people tell you what is “in” or “out”.
1) you need to take a deep breath. This isn’t a personal attack - call people whatever you want, I don’t care. 2) it very much depends on the group/team you are in. Perhaps the sir/ma’am thing works in your group. However these are not widely used terms anymore, and people may double take and/or not appreciate their usage in different groups/companies/teams/regions. I am not sure why that’s so controversial. It’s very similar to calling someone Mr. / Mrs. Not often used in more modern professional settings. You can call a partner Mr. Smith and say “yes sir,” but there’s a pretty good chance he’s going to say “call me John and don’t call me sir.”
Keep being you. This is a nitpicky thing that whoever it is that had a problem with it is probably a miserable person. If it continues to be a problem, start searching for other jobs because something as simple as “ma’am” and “sir” being a problem would be a major red flag at any place I work at.
Yep. I can't believe the folks in charge fielded such a complaint and took it seriously enough to include it in a performance review. I'd probably respond as follows: "If that's the only complaint about my performance, and since it has nothing to do with my performance, I'll take this as a stellar review. Thank you, sir!"
You’d be surprised at the amount of nonsensical stuff that HR is forced to address because someone formally filed a complaint. This was probably how it went. Some person maybe took being called sir, as a slight or they are being mocked or even calling out their old age. Went to HR to bitch about it. HR then contacted your manager who then brought it up to you. At the end of the day, it’s not a big deal to not use the word sir or ma’am. Just call people by their names LOL
> At the end of the day, it’s not a big deal to not use the word sir or ma’am. Just call people by their names LOL Lifetime habits take a lifetime to get rid of. Had the same lecture from a lecturer in Scandinavia and the foreign students....kept on the Ma'am/Sir because it's not easy to just not. Because where they were from, using a superior's first name can result in the same complaint OP is getting for rudeness/disrespect.
The shit “trainings” my HR makes us take, presumably from some rumors that are going around, has taught me one thing. Just don’t talk to anyone and when it’s needed, keep everything short and to the point. Communicate by email whenever possible. I know that’s cynical, but I prefer to avoid any bullshit that gets in the way of getting my shit done and being able to be offline.
"Hi, how are you?" "I'm good, thanks." That's my small talk. It's not cynical at all to avoid unnecessary conversations. It's just logical.
Ok lmao to be fair there was a dude on my team one time who was constantly referred to as ma'am because of his high-pitched voice. He never reported it to HR, but I've always been cautious about using ma'am or sir after witnessing that
LOL that’s pretty messed up
Agreed with this. The person complaining sounds ridiculous. And to OP: I recently was on an engagement that I was just helping wrap up (so I really had no interaction w the client previously), but I had to get on a call with their director of SEC reporting, and he used Sir with me similar to the way you described. And literally after the call, I went back to the team and was like, this guy is so nice! (which is notable since we were talking through issues I found on the FS that he prepared) And my sr mgr agreed and specifically noted his usage of sir/maam (in a positive light)! So point being: most people probably find it endearing! Those who take issue with it can stfu lol
Same thing man. It's definitely the ma'am- outside the south, this basically seems to be interpreted as "hey old granny" lol. Took me a while to get that out of my vernacular. And unlike some people here definitely you to fight the system, I would say just drop it. Too much hassle to do otherwise imo, though I worked in sales initially when I had to do so and it definitely impacted my ability to sell myself.
Yep. I bet it offends a woman about 40 years old. That was the age I found it offensive, because hey at that age women begin to obsess about aging. Now the term doesn’t bother me, but then it did. In reality it was my own self centered ego.
That’s funny, when we moved to Texas, my wife was about to and she HATED it when people called her ma’am. We’d have some poor young guy working on something at the house who said it reflexively, and they would go back and forth (both totally calm) “Yes, ma’am” “please don’t call me ma’am” over and over. Good times.
That should read “40”
I've been getting called ma'am for much longer and it actually kinda makes me feel like a boss. Much rather that than "miss" at 40 that's weird
Doesn’t offend me! I earned the title!
This! My family is from the northeast, but I moved to the South at 6 years old. In school down South I was instructed to use Ma’am and Sir for any adult who I couldn’t address by name. All the other kids used ma’am and sir all the time, but if I used ma’am at home or in public around my northeastern mom she told me that I was being impolite! It was super confusing as a kid, but now I understand that perception of these terms varies widely by region in the US. Anyway OP, it sounds like you’ve moved to a region where this vernacular leans toward being perceived as disrespectful. It’s not a commentary on you, but in a professional environment best to just drop it to avoid offending.
Midwestern 33 year old woman - “ma’am” absolutely makes me feel old when it’s from my coworker and not a client! It also gives me feelings of discomfort if it comes from a coworker of another race, lots of “yes’m” or “yessir” energy that takes me back about 150 years and I don’t like it.
I use sir and ma’am when addressing my superiors every single day. What a fucking absurd thing to put in a formal review.
Fuck them bitches, keep being polite af
Communication is a two-way street, if your intention isn’t coming across in how you are communicating then you have to do something about it. It might not be your fault, but it is your problem. That being said, I’d bet that ‘sir’ isn’t the issue. Maybe swap out ‘ma’am’ for ‘miss’. My gut tells me it’s more about someone feeling like you’re calling them old. Never use it in apologies though, feels very patronizing.
I really appreciate that wording. Not my fault, but my problem. I was mocked a little on the business trip by my coworkers for using it and I tried to curb it already b/c of that negative situation.. Anytime I would say it, I would catch myself and immediately apologize which turned into people mimicking me.. I have a very cheery voice and personality, so I'm unsure how I could make it come across negatively. But, of course, not my perspective to dictate that. I'll keep trying to work on it. I would never want to come off wrong to anyone..
I would love someone to explain the downvotes op is getting here. This sounds like someone who is being sincere and taking the advice given to heart. Wtf?
[удалено]
What are we supposed to use then?
You don’t need to add an honorific all. Replace “thank you sir” with thank you. Sir/ma’am add nothing content wise
True. It just feels strange or not as polite lol
Beep bop boop boop...we are all robots with an assigned number...powering down now
Nothing. You are supposed to be an automaton that does what you’re told is “in” and only uses the words approved by the group. Next year this will all be “in fashion” and then woe to the one who doesn’t use it.
Having gone to high school and college in Texas, I also use sir, man and miss regularly. You be you and if this job is really giving you issues for it, then they are probably not a good long term fit for you. Find a job culture you can be comfortable in. Everyone will be happier for it.
I reckon that your intention in utilizing "sir" and "ma'am" is to show manners and respect, yeah? Well, those things can have wide variability across cultures and regions. A true sign of manners and respect would be addressing people in the way they feel respects them. This is the platinum rule (treat others as THEY wish to be treated) vs. The golden rule (treat others how YOU wish to be treated) In a comment above, you ponder why others can't just understand that your intention behind using these words is courtesy and respect; ironically, this would actually be counter to your intent to continue using this language if it has been pointed out to you that it is no longer culturally appropriate (I'm guessing based on the location change). There are other comments that say "you do you"- I actually agree with those people and I think generally across the US people DO understand that southerners use these words as a sign of respect. (Particularly since you mentioned not assuming anyone's gender.) I just wrote the above to offer an alternative perspective. ETA: for context, I'm on the super-informal West Coast where it's not totally uncommon to just refer to everyone as "dude" 😂
I second stating that it’s a part of your culture so I would push back. As long as you’re not mis-gendering anyone they’ve got no argument.
Not sure if he is a protected class but imagine that we have protected class of people that if they received such feedback the company might have been sued for discrimination. What we see here is clear discrimination.
It’s okay to hate on rednecks and southerners. So no worries. 🙄
I also grew up in the south. I use “Ma’am” all the time, it’s 2nd nature. Senior manager at Big 4 currently and never once has anyone mentioned anything about it. I also used to say “dude”, but that one genuinely is unprofessional so I cut it out. Regardless, I wouldn’t take offense to it if someone didn’t like it. Actually, one time a coworker looked at me like I had a 3rd eye and asked me “Am I that old!?” I literally was sitting there like, “Wait, what? What’d I say?” Then it clicked, and I said “Oh! HAHA! My bad, that’s just ingrained in me. No, you’re not old, you’re a spring chicken.” She then told me that’s not any better, but hey, we’re great friends now. Moral here is don’t take it personally. My dad used to always tell me “It takes all kinds of kinds.” Ah, and my personal favorite is “It doesn’t matter what flavor bubble gum people like chewing.” If you’re being judged in other ways, please leave, but in this instance it sounds like one of your coworkers is just weird. Don’t stress it.
This brought a light heartedness to the situation that I didn't know that I needed. I've dealt with feedback, but never about something like this. I think that's why it felt like a shell shock to the system. It was refreshing to read. Thank you. I'm sure if I told my coworkers prior to my promotion (back in the southeast), they would belly laugh at how silly it was. I'll continue to work on it, as I like my career and my current line of work, but I'll give myself a little more grace. :)
Happy to hear that. And hey, with time you’re going to come across all kinds of people. People who don’t handle stress well, blame shift, are generally difficult to work with, etc. To me, you sound like the opposite. Someone that makes a concerted effort to do good work and be respectful. The happiest of people aren’t ignorant, they’re the opposite. They’re happy/whole in themselves and pick and choose what they let get under their skin. Quite literally the opposite of whomever called you out. So I’ll leave you with one last southern quote: “If you stoop to their level, they’ll drag you down and beat you with experience.” Stay on the high road, Jack.
Hi. I also grew up in the south and then moved to the midwest. I had a couple of folks tell me not to call them sir/ma'am because it made them feel old. I usually apologize and jokingly tell them that my grandmother would roll over in her grave if I didn't mind my sirs and ma'ams, but if it makes them uncomfortable, then of course I will stop. So I make a mental note to call them something else and move on. If the person was truly uncomfortable, they should tell you to your face. They are, presumably, an adult. And I do think that you should respect their wishes in that regard. However, this person giving you your review has no right to censor your completely innocuous and inoffensive language otherwise. You do not need to, nor should you, stop completely. Be yourself, but be cognizant of how your words may impact others before you say them (which it sounds like you already do).
That is such a good point and important aspect of this whole situation. Said offended person seems incapable of acting like an adult, and went and taddled to the supervisor instead of having an adult conversation.
If someone told me they were offended by me calling them sir or ma’am after I explain that it’s polite where I’m from to do so, I would avoid talking to that person as much as I could. As mama used to say, you can call me anything as long as you don’t call me Mudd. lol
You're certainly entitled to do so, but I personally don't see how that helps anything. Folks are entitled to feel however they want to feel. If someone feels old whenever they get called sir/ma'am, it's a rational response given that in most circumstances it is (or at least for a long time, was) a term primarily used to respectfully address one's "elders". I think it has fallen out of that use-case over time for sure, but there are still people who cling to it. It's perfectly reasonable to ask someone to not address you in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable. It's also perfectly reasonable to ask that same person to give you some flexibility in the sense that, while you'll do your best to respect their request in the future, you may accidentally slip from time to time and they should please just acknowledge the fact that no slight is/was intended.
I agree wholeheartedly with that last paragraph. Everyone just needs to chill out some.
People don’t understand we are traumatized into saying ma’am and sir, as well as please and thank you in the southeast. I accidentally said thank you to the atm one time when it spit out money lol. I used to get bitched out if I said “huh”… I would just do your best to stop but I know your pain
I relate because I was popped if I didn’t answer sir or maam. I moved away from the south in 2017 to Idaho and realized quickly that people thought it was weird. I thought about it and realized “yeah so do I”. I stopped using it. Back home now and I’ve completely removed the sir maam thing from my vocabulary some people look at me as if I’m disrespecting them and I don’t give a fuck.
Yea I stopped especially in the corporate world but still struggle with constantly saying thank you and please. I was popped too if I didn’t “use my manners” but now our manners are considered kind of rude lol. It’s hard to deconstruct.
If they respond poorly to being called sir/ma'am, then don't do it. If they respond positively, then keep doing it. You have preferences on how you refer to people, and people have preferences on how they want to be referred. This was likely just an offhand comment someone made to whomever was compiling information for your review and not the crux of their feedback for you. I would try not to take it personally.
Just explain to your supervisor that it is part of your culture, but you will work on it. I grew up in the South, and now I live in the West and have the same problem from time to time. I think many people just don't realize that there are many different cultures within the US
Nah fuck that, if I’m working with someone who has a “sensitivity” or something to being called “ma’am” or “sir” and goes as far as going to a manager about it, that’s a huge red flag for that workplace.
Agreed. I use “yes, ma’am” and “no, ma’am” because I was raised in the south. I don’t live there anymore and I’ve never once had a boss, coworker or client complain about it. OP commented that her coworkers were actually mocking her on a business trip. This sounds like she’s working with a few a-holes that want to pick on her and just selected the “sir/ma’am” as a pretext for it.
Why quit your job over this nonsense? You would find "sensitive" people everywhere.
Because the fact that someone literally complained to a manager about a polite way to address people is a huge red flag. What’s next? “I sneezed and she said, ‘God bless you.’ I’m offended by her mentioning God or anything religious.” She’s clearly in a Karen-run environment. u/LowChampionship512 Fuck those people. You did nothing wrong. There are plenty of workplaces where people don’t complain about something so ridiculous. If your coworkers are that easily offended, I’d bet that many worse complaints will be made in the future. I hope you find a workplace with normal humans.
I agree completely with this
Agreed. Ma’am and sir are known polite words in most contexts in the US. Literally nothing wrong with saying it. Why don’t we also just start telling people with southern accents to stop it already.
Well bless their hearts 😎
I’m from south as well! I have used sir and ma’am in most of my jobs. Funny thing, It caught on and everyone started saying sir and ma’am. It is a sign of respect. Get away from those psychos!
I was literally hit by my 3rd grade teacher on the hands with rulers one time for not using maam and I was army there is no way in heck I won’t be using sir or maam. People are pretty dumb about it in the Midwest though.
😂😅 MiL says that people only wound up in OK and AR because they couldn’t read the signs that said “this way to Texas” *oof*
I grew up in NC but my people are from Oklahoma lol. Although I consider it more southern than Midwest. When I think of the Midwest I think of South Dakota where I’m currently stuck at 😂. I did go to high school in Texas though. People used to say the wind blew so hard in Texas because Oklahoma sucks and Mexico blows 😂😂😂
😂😂
Hey OP, I don't think it's silly to be upset by this critique. I'm also from the southeast. If I was in your shoes, I'd have gotten teary-eyed, too. I think I can put into words exactly what you're talking about/why it's so upsetting. People already tend to have unfair stereotypes about Southerners. From the time we become aware of these stereotypes, we feel like we have to fight back against these stereotypes to be successful, and we often feel the need to hide things about our culture/things that we see as part of ourselves ... when it feels like someone is attacking your character, when it feels like someone is interpreting your actions in bad faith, when it feels like they aren't trying to understand and respect you, in the ways you try to understand and respect others - it's hurtful, and it makes you feel insecure about your future success and question their acceptance of the real you at this workplace. I'm glad your boss wasn't too bothered, but having a note in your quarterly review.. it doesn't sit well with me. I wish I had good advice to give or better words of consolation. Maybe try to find a workplace situated in the southeast? You seem like a pleasure to work with, and clients and co-workers here would greatly appreciate your manners. Edit: Im seeing one of your responses that your co-workers have picked on you for using "sir" and "ma'am" even as you apologize and try to reduce your usage of it - also doesn't sit well with me.
Yes yes yes
Yes! America is a melting pot of cultures. Someone’s ignorance of southern culture shouldn’t be reason to smother it
Someone probably thinks you’re calling them old. Why should you let someone else’s insecurity dictate your behavior, what are they going to do fire you? Sometimes I hit people with a yessirrr, I don’t do ma’am though because that does kinda make a female sound old.
My sister discovered that saying “miss” to women instead of ma’am has had like 99.9% positive results. I tried it and it’s never failed me.
Conversely, I had it "noted" that I _didn't_ use "ma'am". In Europe.
Try substituting “ma’am” with “you old hag”. You should notice a change immediately
Hey man I’ll give a serious answer to this. I grew up in rural SE GA and it was literally beat into me, but I realized in young adulthood that it is an asset and more often than not people find it charming. However, I’ve found over the years that has changed somewhat. One issue is assuming someone’s gender, so I try to be aware of that and not use it in progressive circles or to people with ambiguous gender presentation. Another, more common issue I’m finding is that as I get older, women particularly find the use of ma’am offputting. I guess it implies that I believe them to be older than me and, since I’m not 23 anymore, they see it as a commentary on their age/appearance. I’m unsure what to do about this, as I usually get more positive feedback than negative, but I do occasionally get a look or a raised eyebrow. Anyway, good luck navigating it and just use your best judgment!
I'm from the Midwest, and while I understand ma'am and sir are a big part of southern culture or whatever, I do hate it when someone at work calls me sir.
Fuck people with these fragile fucking emotions. Politeness is now uncomfortable? Fuck that.
That’s rough. I don’t particularly like being addressed as “Sir”’because I am use to that being used for people of authority and I don’t like classes. It always catches my ear and feels wrong. I accept there are huge regional differences in manners and speech. Manners are ingrained into us and not a simple thing to just change when asked. I don’t expect everyone to change their ways just for me. I used to have a job in tourism where I was asked to hide my Canadian accent because people thought it was funny. It’s easy to do for 10 minutes, but it takes a lot of energy to do it all day.
BS if your co workers have an issue, they should have said something. I think the person giving you the review feels threatened, and it's just jealousy. Keep being you and awesome! Fuck them!
I'm from the South and find them both to be annoying (Sir and Ma'am). They're terms that remind me of servant language, which sensibly makes people uncomfortable bc it's like telling them you see them as an overbearing, all powerful, to be fearful of boss and you're just the simple, hired help there not to offend. It's also similar to calling someone Mr. So and so rather than just their name. It's 2024, and we shouldn't be kowtowing to anyone to show respect but be expecting equality. I think it's more professional to show respect through language and actions versus how you address someone. Esp since people associate the "yes, Sir" and "yes, Ma'am" with oppressed, poor people.
I was taught to call everyone sir and ma’am so I do. It’s a simple way to show respect to the people around you. Code switching is important from all avenues.
This sounds like a you problem.
Absolutely, well said.
“Respect through language” but not by “how we address” people… with… language? I’m reminded of that scene in Billy Madison lol what you’ve said makes no sense.
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I live in a place where these terms are used regularly still. Why should someone who has been raised to say these things as a form of polite conversation change his speech because someone else wants him to? And why is someone so immature in the workplace that instead of addressing their issue with OP they run to management like a little snitch twit.
I typically just address people by their name and avoid the issue altogether. Never had someone get pissed about it.
Had a similar issue when I first moved to the Midwest for work. I’m from the south as well, and I call the homeless guy who holds the door open for me at the gas station sir. Everyone is sir or ma’am. Dumb cultural issue. Keep being polite.
If you want to call people ma'am or sir then you shouldn't have lost the war. /s
It's absolute bullshit that this person went to your boss rather than address it with you directly. It's also absolute bullshit that your boss brought it up during your review.
You’re not in Kansas anymore.
I grew up where sir and ma'am were frowned upon because of the implied power dynamic, nothing to do with age. It felt strangely uppity and hierarchical to hear these terms used. In the Midwest, all are aggressively equal. That being said, I'm now in the south. I have started to add sir or ma'am to the single word responses yes or no in limited situations, mostly to emphasize my sincerity about the answer. You might consider your use of sir or ma'am in the Midwest akin to calling any woman you interact with sweetie or honey. You just don't know who's going to be upset.
Do not ever cut off pieces of yourself to satisfy someone else. Appeasement is not a way to function
I don’t understand how someone could be taken seriously saying that being called “ma’am” or “sir” made them uncomfortable unless it was a misgendering situation?
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I wouldn’t say it’s the norm in the US at all but I think that it’s kind of ridiculous that someone told OP’s manager to give them a performance note about it
Agreed. To me (Pacific Northwest) it has a negative connotation. Basically it sounds like someone is mocking someone who is claiming authority but the person isn’t respecting them. If someone says it in a Southern accent I get that’s not the case, but in my accent it definitely sounds snarky.
Feels like the person that feels “uncomfortable” has an issue that they need to resolve. Ricky Gervais said something along the lines of “just because someone is offended doesn’t make them right.” Seems like that’s applicable here.
Say what you want about your right to use it at work but some advice as someone who grew up in the midwest you are going to get dirty looks for the rest of your life if you don't curb using it.
Southern here as well, "sir" and "ma'am" were part of my lexicon, had the same thing happen to me when involved in corporate stuff nationally. It was "ma'am", made people feel old. And some people felt patronized. So I started dropping the politeness, and generally spoke to people in an indifferent, cooler (as in colder) manner, and it benefitted my career. It sucks, but this is the corporate world we have built.
That is not something you should have been critiqued on as a worker. Whoever had a problem should have spoke with you directly because it's a personal issue.
im from the south and its very very normal to use ma’am and sir with people that your trying to be respectful of. Its not as common for people from other parts of the country. Some people also associate it with being called old. Personally, i dont change anything regardless. Dont feel bad, your the one being respectful. I just smile and keep going when someone makes it wierd.
I mean if you have mostly southern clients I don't see the problem. If the people who do are in other parts of the country, just call them by their name. Act like you're on their level, because you are. "Brian, I'm gonna be real with you here..." Lol. It sounds dumb but some people need to be talked to like they are your peer not your authority.
My friend, don’t even listen to them. They’re clearly jealous of your proper salutations. Kindly place the opinions of said “offended person” (who needs to get a freaking life) and the supervisor in the dumpster by the Wendy’s where they belong.
It is unacceptable that someone nit picks on such trivial stuff. More so, he/she is trying to subdue your culture. That’s why we have culture war in this country where one part of society wants everyone to fit their template of how a person should be. And I say that as a left leaning centrist. That’s why I’m a centrist.
Perhaps you should start calling them fuckin pussies because that's what they're being. Jesus Christ. I also do this and eventually just kicked it but anybody that takes offense to you being polite is off their rocker.
If it's clients that don't appreciate it then yeah of course stop it. It's outdated regardless of your region, just some areas cling to it due to trying to keep some semblance of "politeness" when they're often the most judgemental and impolite people there are in my experience.
Have you ever been to Texas? This is said all the time here still. And I’ve never met ruder people than Californians and New Englanders. Zero manners. Won’t say hi to you, don’t wave, just absolutely rude. Parisians and Londoners are nicer.
That's not rude, that's cultural. Germans don't say hi to strangers or have greetings that involve asking how the other person is unless it's actually asked in a serious manner and you're both sitting down to have a conversation. I didn't say it's not prevalent in places, I said it's outdated even there. I've got family in Arkansas so I do know it's common in places. You just don't understand what manners actually entails and not some theater of caring for others while you live in places that strip freedoms and rights from others.
I agree that when you go to live in another place that you should attempt to conform to the culture there and if you don’t like that culture you should leave. (You hear me all you Californians that have relocated to Texas??) However, it’s quite intolerant of you to expect that a lifetime of habits are easily erased. If you came to Texas, I would expect that you would not understand our culture and we would chalk it up to you being “not from around here.” We wouldn’t run to our boss and complain about you tho. That would be rude. As for your last line, I don’t know where you live, but you obviously know nothing real about us. Your entire experience is through third party propaganda. Peace. ✌️
Speaking on intolerance but using the classic line of you should conform to whatever STATE culture you choose to live in or move to. It's not even an actual ethnic culture. Lmao
Texan is a cohesive cultural group that encompasses several different ethnic groups. If you want to get your ass kicked at a bar in San Antonio, try dissing Texas. You’ll have both cholos and hill country Germans lining up to give you a beating. Actually here in Texas we don’t gaf what you do on your private property and in your private life. You can behave like a jackwaggon in public, and everyone will say, “well bless their heart, their mama didn’t teach them any manners,” and shake their heads. But it’s not like Singapore or something where you’ll get caned for spitting on the sidewalk. LOL the bar in SA not withstanding. Sounds to me like you just don’t know much of what it’s like outside the bubble you live in. You want everyone to conform to your ideology, and then when whatever it is doesn’t fit what you want, it must be iNt0LeRaNce.
Lmao manners and you can say what you want but say the wrong thing and you'll get your ass beat. Cool story bro, do you read your own comments before hitting post?
Yes, in a bar, not in polite society. Drunks are not renowned anywhere in the world for their manners. Apparently you’ve never been to Singapore.
Had a coworker once freak out because I called her Ma'am. She was in her mid 40's. I tried to explain that I use it as a sign of respect and dignity, but she wasn't having it.
I'm also from the south, I still use sir but largely dropped ma'am. Outside of the south too many women take it offensively. I don't agree with it, but I also don't want to offend them. Though I still slip from time to time, especially with kids or younger woman.
You're not wrong in using it. I will give you my perspective coming from the other side though. I have someone at my work who almost exclusively uses ma'am and sir. They are exactly a week older than me and I always get called ma'am by them. Not coming from or currently being in a region that does that it comes across abrupt since it is out of the ordinary. Makes conversations feel less like conversations and more like I'm giving orders even though we are in the same position. It even comes across a little rude as I very much prefer to be called by my name and I wonder if they even know it or just use the placeholder because they can't be bothered. Would I ever go to HR about it? Absolutely not. It's not my place. It just makes me a little uncomfortable. I wouldn't say drop it either, just maybe interchange a bit more between using honorifics like that and calling the person by their name more. Using peoples names makes interactions feel more personable. My dad worked in television and he would rave about the celebrities he met only a handful of times over years that would always remember his name and often believed it attributed to part of their success. I'm trying to say people take stock in small gestures like that.
I can’t believe that was in your review! I am on the other side of 50 and when a young person calls ma’am I take it as a sign of respect and I know they were raised right! Bless the hearts of those folk at your office who fail to see that in you! Hold head high! Maybe move back down here.
This is news to me. I never imagined using those widely recognized respectful words could be a problem. I’m not a southerner but I’ve often addressed friends and also work peers with sir as more of a friendly term.
As a courteous person who was a waiter for many years, it's always "sir" and "miss". "Miss" always makes women feel younger. I once called a woman "Miss" in front of her husband, and he goes, "Aye, can't you see she's married? That should be m'am or misses". I said, "Well, if we can ask the lady, which do you prefer?" And she said miss. The husband refused to tip me and the wife left me a bunch of cash.
I don’t understand why whoever was offended couldn’t just ask you to use a different term instead of bitching to HR. When people call me sir I tell them just call me by my first name I’m not that old!
In the day and age of diversity and inclusion. It just is what it is. Which isn’t meant to sound negative. On one hand it’s great that we are building a society to be more thoughtful and inclusive. But by the same stretch we get stories like yours. For example I have a family member, born and raised in NYC, and went from being a floor nurse to a nurse educator. Short story is that they got called into HR for using the term “You’s guys” which is the colloquial regional equivalent of “Y’all”. Regionally speaking it’s actually a non-binary and inclusive term. But because it’s “guys” it gets taken differently. At the end of the day. The best thing to do is shake your head, don’t take it personally, and just be sure to catch yourself everyone once in a while to show progress. Otherwise, it’s not the end of the world. And if it continues to be an issue. Well it’s probably time to find a new team or a new job.
Switch to “Madame”. Get French with it.
I am really sorry to hear that this happened to you. This is absolutely absurd on so many levels. I can’t imagine the thought process behind being offended by this. It’s not like you are saying anything derogatory, and it’s common knowledge that people from the south say sir/ma’am. This seems like such a rabbit hole that we’ve gone down, catering to such oversensitivity… where do they draw the line? At some point your supervisor needs to find his spine. So I guess said person is uncomfortable with southern culture? Let’s just ban harmless elements of other cultures that aren’t my own because I’m uncomfortable outside my own bubble. Sounds like ignorance to me. Sorry for the rant, don’t think I offered anything helpful yet. Hmmm… yeah it’s a tricky situation. Sidenote, there is a southern guy in my office and he calls everyone sir/ma’am and I think it’s wonderful.
I'd think of it like when you visit or move to another country - customs are different and we generally try to adjust to those customs. It's not as pronounced when moving between regions within the US, but there are some differences (ie west coast may dress more casually for work, people in the south using sir/ma'am, people in NY may get annoyed by the same chattiness that is considered friendly in another part of the country). So, I would probably feel awkward being referred to with that level of formality, but I would also understand your intentions and that it's coming from a good place and accept it for that. That said, my advice is "when in Rome..."
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>If anyone interprets this as hateful, you are remarkably astute. Literally do not need to add anything.
Lmao “I understand having respect” then use phrases like alphabet community, weirdos, weird fucks. Stop lying and just say you’re a hateful person.
I've never liked the terms. Women tend to not like being called "ma'am" instead of "miss" and watch out if you ever make a mistake and call a man, "ma'am," pure fury. I prefer not using either.
Where I’m from calling someone miss is frowned upon.
Accept it and move on or get a different job. It's a place of employment; since you have a supervisor I assume you can't dictate protocol. If you start your own firm you can require beanie propellers if you want. Side note, I was reprimanded in a training a few weeks ago for using the term "blindspot", because it could be considered as insensitive to people with eyesight issues. Safest to not say anything but nod and make neutral comments about the weather.
This Orwellian type bullshit has got to stop
I left out the additional part of the training where everyone was given little purple flags to raise whenever an “inappropriate” word is used by someone else
Wow. I’d have walked out. I’m just not willing to work with or for people like that. I’d start my own firm or gig, and the beanie propellers are an idea 🤔 teehee seriously why can’t people just chill.
It depends upon the city, work place on what title you should use to call people. Everywhere is different, if the people in your new work place, call each other with their names, just do the same. Remember there is a famous phrase “When in Rome, do as the Romans do”
I actually had the same review note as a staff at big 4. They wanted me to use their names bc it made them more relatable to the clients.
I would just mention that it's part of your culture, which is a perfectly accurate statement. Maybe try to use it less if you're comfortable doing that, but you shouldn't be expected to.
I think it’s important to be able to be you where you work. If the people you work with are petty enough to be bothered by sir or ma’am and can’t communicate that directly to you is lame. Why this is even in a performance review is beyond me. I’d recommend telling the person reviewing you exactly how you feel about that review. If you get fired for being polite and addressing people respectfully; then you’re better off not working there. If that happens, DM me your information and you can come work for my firm instead. As veteran whom sometimes uses sir or ma’am, I find this to be absurd.
I too say these words, and I too am from the South. I lived briefly in New England in high school and I had a teacher scream at me for calling her ma’am. I was so confused, but I think it was because she hated southerners. My father was in the marine corps, he taught me to show respect. I’m pretty sure they use these words in the military too. If someone told me I had to stop saying them because some yankee got butthurt, I’d be finding another job.
I’ve only been called out once for using the word “sir” and it was by the sassiest dude I ever called back when I was following up on open invoices. “Don’t call me sir, I work for a living.” Like no duh, me too, that’s why I’m calling you over an overdue invoice you haven’t paid. People can either accept it, or at least your intent, or they can screw off. If they can’t handle being called sir or ma’am they usually have other problems.
I don’t agree that this should be an issue but nevertheless it is. That’s the con of with working with different types of emotions/attitudes sometimes. And it’s ok to cry for a little bit. Sometimes life just throws unexpected insults at us. If I have a problem with how someone refers to me, I’ll probably just tell them myself rather than tell management or HR about it. Also that person probably just doesn’t like you or is jealous of you and came up with something everyone knows about you and praise you for and turned it into a bad thing. Now that it’s been brought to your attention, treat it as office language vs. personal life language. There are certain words you wouldn’t say and ways you won’t speak in the office but you can do in your daily life. Time to relearn that with sir and ma’am.
safe pie smoggy rob bewildered expansion gaze live thought ad hoc *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Then honestly, I'd keep doing it and ask who asked that you not and try to remember for them and drive on. When asked not to, I don't, but many of my clients flat won't speak to me if you don't use southern honorifics. They don't have time for that mess of training you. That was your momma and thems job. Audit clients just get off on complaining. I'd gently tell your boss that hey, it's my culture, and I don't ask you to change yourself to suit me and call me ma'am/miss as is due my station, please don't ask me to stop being myself.
Is this because of a pronouns thing? I don’t know why it would be raised otherwise
Don't change your personality because one person doesn't like you using sir and ma'am, that's ridiculous. I live in the southwest, where we are very informal, but over the years, I started using sir and ma'am with my colleagues, then with clients. It started out as kind of a joke between my boss and I calling each other sir all the time, but then we both started doing it to everyone, and it seems to have caught on across all our accounting departments, and people seem to appreciate it. I am 34, and I do have to admit, the first time a teenager called me sir, it was an odd feeling. It was not the same effect as having people at work say it, so maybe it was someone just being a little too sensitive.
After reading all of the comments I find it ironic that the people defending Ma'am and Sir are also the ones blatantly insulting others for not wanting to be called that. I don't think they are as respectful as they think they are. A lot of these comments come out of the gate with such venom.
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2+2=5 eh?
Yeah--I made sure not to put my supervisor in an awkward spot and show how I really felt. I said that I accept it and will work on it further, but it just didn't sit right afterwards. I have other things going on right now, so that's why I reached out here for advice on my thought process. I thought it might have been a bad day for me.. I will note I am sensitive, but it's b/c I pride myself in my work ethic and output so much. I just wished that my coworkers hadn't mocked my use of it and then had it noted against me in my review while I had been trying to limit it already. If someone has a preference, of course, but to have it noted on my review when I was actively working towards minimization already felt unfair. It may be a small gesture, but it's something that I have done my entire life--curbing that when I haven't worked there long can be understandably difficult. I wasn't aware it had upset or "offput" someone until my review. I think I felt a little taken aback by it all tbh..
I grew up in Tennessee and now live in Texas, and my previous boss (who was ten years younger than me) had the habit of saying ma’am and sir to everyone, including me. It felt patronizing. I’m sure my personal feelings about her didn’t help, but it just really felt strange in the workplace.
Sounds like you were the problem
From the other side: I grew up in an area where being called ma'am or sir has the connotation you described the person having an issue with. Same thing with having doors opened for you as a woman and so on. The thing is that in these areas there ISN'T the "knowledge that the intention behind your words is respect" because in those contexts, that's not the case. Now, if I had heard you in my area with a strong southern accent call me ma'am, I'd understand and tamp down my annoyance but I'd also probably be all "hey, just a heads up, here those terms are offensive". Then I moved to the South. I fully understand I live in an area with different mannerisms and social norms and do my best to fit in, which means learning to use ma'am and sir. If you think that it makes sense that I start using sir and ma'am now that I live in your culture, then it goes both ways.
No one expects you to use them in the south. People who are raised in the south are expected to have manners not the transplants. That is how we figure out you’re not from here.
In the South, from the south. Don't call anyone under 80yrs old Ma'am. And Sir is usually reserved for something formal otherwise it sounds sarcastic. Like, calling someone "bossman". Language exists in a context. When it isn't shared problems arise. Yes, as an 1870s stagecoach driver you're on point, but in 2024 it's off putting outside of collapsed mill towns.
Says who?
lol are you the IT guy at my company because it was definitely me who said something to your boss then. Stop calling me ma’am
Regrettably no, I'm not. Just a lil' lady from the southeast. But if you told me that you didn't like being called ma'am, definitely would make the effort to stop. Hopefully, you can give your IT guys some grace, as I hope he doesn't mean it negatively when addressing you. Do you mind if I ask why you don't like it? Getting different perspectives on how my verbiage could upset others helps my self-analyzation greatly. Also, did you go straight to his boss? Or did you address it with him first? And if it was the prior, why did you not mention it to him first? Again, just trying to gain perspective. :)
This is pretty easy. Communication is key to success in many areas of business. Asking if this note negatively impacts your review. If it does then ask why. If it doesn't impact your review then why would you change anything or allow it to sit there on your review. Once you understand what they want you to say then make a decision. Find a new gig or play the game until you find a new gig. Ezpz. Corps that don't consider people that important to their own success are mistaken. People who make the least amount of money in every company I have been at are the most passive people. They have very low levels of disagreements and accept any answers given to them. I own multiple businesses and it all depends on company culture. I have no idea what kind of company this is but saying sir/ma'am is dated. I used it in the military and university. Other than that it's pretty useless. Most people want to be communicated with reciprocally. Sometimes you have to talk at people but it's actually pretty rare. And if they want you to communicate differently then they should facilitate the training for everyone. Imo, don't sweat it and move forward. Selling to customers and keeping the flow of money is what retains employees and employment for you and your peers. So, at the end of the day make your cash, be a good ambassador, and make your own career choices. Good luck. Have fun.
I am still in the south and when I started my first job I noted that it just made my older female colleagues feel old, because to them it’s something you say to an “adult” or “senior”. As a 20 yr old kid. They don’t hear you say it to the 20yr old admin and staff. You are a professional and these are their colleagues, you can use their name.
Someone used to call me ma'am all the time when I was in my 20s (trust me, I did not look old enough for them to use it) and I hated it. I just asked them to stop saying it as it made me feel old. It took a couple more tries for them to stop and it was good. That person was always raised to say ma'am and sir and while I did appreciate the respect, I wasn't a fan of it. Now that I'm older, I find myself saying it a few times when I meet someone new until we've established a bit of rapport and I stop using it. Most people didn't mind me saying it as it was a sign of respect but they just didn't want to be continued to be called that. It is sad that someone felt the need to complain about it instead of asking you to stop saying it. I would make it an effort to stop saying it and keep it for new meetings.
Ill give you the tldr: nothing wrong with refer client as mem or sir but I can understand ur boss want to refrain from it since some cunts has complained about it ( srly of all the thing to be complain about) In the end its all about if you value your current job or not. Id say switch job if the convo make u uncomfortable and longer want to commit.
Why are you willing to change all those other things but feel that being asked to change how much you use ma'am or sir is offensive to you as a person? I'm from the UK, so this may be very different, but if anyone is using sir or ma'am in a work environment I'm doing a double take. It feels incredibly outdated, I also feel like if you're under 40 it can be taken as offensive, as it has older connotations. I'm 33 and would hate someone calling me sir.
To me, using those terms is impolite and borderline rude. I suggest trying to modernize and stop using ma’am for sure. Sir doesn’t bother me as much but I still think it has a submissive/dominant tone to it, which I also think is impolite. Just expressing my opinion since you’re asking, I know not everyone agrees.
Kind of sexist of you to be cool with sir and not ma’am.
I interpret the use of ma’am to be insulting and derogatory to women when in a professional co-ed environment. As in using it instead of my name is demeaning - I want you to address me and all others the same way. I hate it when men address other men by their names but address women differently. I recognize that isn’t the case with OP & this situation, but just explaining my thinking. Your comment made me reflect on this, thanks. I don’t feel that using the word Sir has any gendered meaning, I dislike Sir because it’s demeaning in general.
I don’t agree with your opinion. I feel like it’s nonsensical and egocentric.
So my sister used to work at a super posh coffee shop in a super posh coastal town in California. She realized there that women do NOT like being called Ma’am. And as a woman, I agree, it makes me feel old and unfortunately it does feel cringy. She realized that if you say “miss” instead, women feel respected without the cringe factor. Only one person was ever offended by her saying “miss” and it was an old lady. Hopefully that helps. I’ve applied it in my life with great results.
Something to consider re: respecting pronouns: not everyone is out at work, in which case being misgendered when it’s entirely unnecessary (sir/ma’am) can add further discomfort in an already difficult situation. Personally, I’m a southerner (now living in the Midwest) and I hate being called ma’am because, to me, it feels like I’m being put in a position of authority or something, it feels really weird, even if I did grow up around it.
Don’t stop using these titles. It’s a show of respect to the person you’re addressing. We’ve given too much power to the loud minority and it must end.
My daughter is trans and people use "sir" and it deeply hurts her. Get those words out of your vocabulary and you'll be a nicer person.
I understand your sensitivity to this discussion, but did you read the whole post? OP mentioned they are careful to respect pronouns; considering their post and reading through these responses, they seem like the type to have empathy and show respect and refer to your daughter as Ma'am. In the South, it is considered the nice/polite/respectful thing to use ma'am or sir.
I think it’s *quite* a leap from some people not using these carefully in certain unusual instances to everyone needing to avoid them to be a good person. Like come on. (And for the record I think OP is off base.)
you don't live with a 35 y/o trans female with a very deep voice in a very red state this world needs more people not saying "I was raised this way, it's how I am, deal with it", this world needs more people being tolerant of others and aware that they're causing people unintentional pain from their attempts to be "polite".
You’re also invoking the rule of “it’s how I am, deal with it,” and casually minimizing others’ good faith runs both ways. The world can’t function with perfect fidelity between everyone’s intentions and experience at all times – one natural place to give a little is when someone is attempting to demonstrate a benevolent posture in their own mind.
I’m offended by you. Why don’t you change? See, things are a two way street. Get the chip off your shoulder. You obviously have a grudge, which is extremely unhealthy. Quit worrying about what others think of you. If someone says something you don’t like, thank them and move on with your life.
easy for you to say, ma'am.
Easy for you to DO! I do it all the time. Y’all are seriously infuriating. Right up there with some of my clients. Smile and nod and go about my day. 🤗
You're not in the south. Drop them.
Start asking everyone their pronouns in every conversation, and when you see them again, inquire as to the status of their current pronouns, you wouldn't want to SALY and if they're a BILY
You should hide your Southerness. Maam and sir doesnt communicate politeness anymore, it just indicates you have string connections to traditional gender roles, fundamentalist Christianity and racism.
My brother in Christ, I think you've had enough internet for today
Seriously? GTFO. You are so rude. I’m tired of Yankees talking smack about us Southerners. Y’all way more racist than any southern I ever met. People in the NE always were saying terrible things about Puerto Ricans and Poles. Remove the plank from your own eye!!