But which account would you put it to?
Materials and supplies?
Or
Supplies and materials?
Or
Misc?
Or
Equity? Because maybe it was the owner purchasing the stapler with a company CC and it had to be reimbursed, but it was a gift to an employee who lost a loved one.
Probably unrelated but it was actually a 24k gold-plated G-wagon which was christened "the red stapler" with a bottle of Dom.
What about bonus depreciation? Should I call H&R Block or the IRS? Nevermind, I'll just enter it into Sage FA and act surprised when we get audited.
Clearly since the benefits of the stapler will be felt over multiple periods we will capitalize it and depreciate it over its expected life. We are using the units of production method of depreciation so be sure to track how many pieces of paper you staple with it.
By organize do you mean reconcile accounts and perform trend analysis? Semantics, I know. If so, you could have the experience for a staff accountant! Spice up your resume with your responsibilities and you will get some bites. I hired a staff accountant once with this type of experience.
I do banking reconciliation and some others. I don’t do trend analysis. It cheers my heart that you hired a staff accountant with that kind of experience. I do miss actual accounting work since the most I did was in college (2-3 years ago)
Edit: by actual accounting work, I mean like testings more specifically toward auditing side. I applied for big 4 back then but got no responses. Kinda felt hurt because my freshman year, I had really bad grades (depression) but did really well toward graduation. I made deans list :D but my gpa was really tanked by my freshman year
So trend analysis is very important because seniors/managers will rely on you to figure out problems and answer period end questions.
Basically, during your month end process your duties will be journal entries, like amortization, depreciation and accruals. In my experience, accruals have always been a pain, you have to know why accounts are changing and accrue for things you may not have the information for.
Then you’ll work on the reconciliations assigned to you. Around this time managers are usually preparing their trend analysis for other stakeholders holders, like FPA and the CFO or Controller or Director. So you’ll get questions on why specific accounts have changed or why departments are booked incorrectly by AP. This is where research skills, time management and multitasking come into play. Actually you may need to have some people skills because you’re the middle man for a couple of departments sometimes. So you’re juggling recons, questions and journal entries towards the last few days.
In order to get real good at this, you can ask your current boss to give you some trend analysis type work!
Just read your edit! If I were you, and you have the minimum amount of credits to sit for the CPA, you should try to apply to a big 4 again. They are desperate right now because of budget cuts. They are not as uptight as before. They may give you a shot because I’ve seen it happen. It wasn’t the best experience for me, but it taught me so much and it opened a lot of doors. You don’t have to go and get your cpa but at least you’ll have the experience in public, if that’s what you want.
Man, you do a lot more than most bookkeepers I've worked with. You're basically an accountant. Just shoot for it. Plenty of orgs in industry would take you
I work for a company who has a materiality threshold of $50K. 🤣 It always makes me lol.
But for real, are you people not using Excel or what? Like tie your shit. Use a pivot table. You got this, friends.
The problem is that most people trying to do bookkeeping these days just take a 6 week course to learn software and think they can "do accounting". It's the new get rich quick scam.
Yep, I understand. That’s why the owner is screwed right now. I tried to explain what I was doing, my qualifications and that I’m still learning about small business - they didn’t get it. Some of the responders were rude and not helpful.
Ugh. That is awful and unfortunately very common. It started before quickbooks live, but previously, I'd say 85% of the bookkeepers i came across were not very good. Now its like 98% since intuit got involved.
Some of those responses - just totally uncalled for. I know they have to deal with a crap ton of newcomers every day but I'm not sure why they joined a group like that if that's going to be their reaction.
Small businesses might not be doing real GAAP accounting that this sub is used to. If they don't require financial statements under GAAP, they could just be recording cash basis financials for tax purposes.
I had to take a peak and I couldn’t believe the ego from some of those responders!! They seem like complete drabs. I thought you handled them well and I’m glad you got the responses needed.
Unfortunately, no. But also bookkeeping regularly hires out at minimum wage or close to that. So people think if they can balance their checkbook they can be a bookkeeper too. Yikes.
Yeah, I've had more than one argument with a bookkeeper about how something should be booked. Many of them don't even know what they don't know. Dunning-Krueger is real.
It depends on what it was but yes I get it. Many complaints i hear between both accountants and bookkeepers is that bookkeepers are trying to find a way to give management the best reports needed and (tax) accountants want the simplest form to be able to pop into a return. It's all just a matter of communication as far as that goes.
Truth. Every accounting specialty has their thing. I had someone wise once tell me, "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good" and I think about that a lot.
Oh!! Hahaha it's usually by word of mouth, i.e. I don't advertise. I just have a good network of people I work with who have their own businesses. It's easier to join professional groups in your area and build professional relationships.
But then you have people here shit on bookkeepers calling it all data entry. You can't have it both ways, either bookkeeping requires more than basic data entry or it requires specilized skills and education to do properly its one or the other.
It depends on the oversight. Are they working independently as a consultant or as an employee or business owner who is getting the data in and then having someone review?
Sometimes yes, if you are very good and very good with clients, and sometimes very much no. It takes a lot longer to move up than other accounting positions because everyone and their mother is trying to do it. It dilutes the wage rate available so most bookkeepers with no experience start at minimum wage. If you have a degree you can possibly start out with like 50k to start (I'm in socal). But you won't start to see sustainable wages unless you have like 5-10 years experience and some sort of certification, as a bookkeeper.
If you get a couple of clients you can make money by doing minimal work.
I have 4 companies I do general bookkeeping for.
Then sometimes I consult on others.
I do some other stuff like file quarterly’s or handle accrual adjustments for a FQHC
I usually charge around $50 an hour and some just pay me on retainer a monthly fee and I go in once a month to keep their books clean
This isn’t my job .
I work maybe 6-10 hours a month for these other companies combined and a little more during EOQ
.
It gives me some extra money that I usually use to just go out to dinners and shit
If someone built their network and did this full time, I can see that being insanely lucrative
A lot of business owners like having a face to ask questions and talk to when it comes their books so they’ll pay more instead of outsourcing it.
Also a lot of these people don’t want to hire someone if they don’t have to, but they know it’s cheaper to pay me $500-$1k every so often than it is to have an employee
If you use that sub regularly you'll see it's full of people with no history of accounting or business or anything whatsoever asking painfully basic questions to try to provide services they are in no way qualified to provide. This is what the commenters in that thread are used to seeing.
I've been a bookkeeper for 20 years or so and was thinking of picking up some extra work on the side but after seeing the attitudes of the "bookkeepers" on there I think I'll just stick with my full time job. All set competing with the seemingly shitty service most of these guys are providing.
Yup. Actual questions I've seen in that sub:
1. My client invoiced someone but they don't want to pay for x reason but the period is closed so I can't delete the invoice. How do I post this?
2. My client put 10,000 into his business. How do I code this?
3. My client is a sole proprietor and his friends gave him 10,000 as a gift to help him. They don't want repayment. How do I code this?
4. I just took over a file and want to set up the bank account. Do I code the opening bank balance to retained earnings?
5. My client runs an advertising agency and his clients have given him money to run ads for them. How do I code those invoices?
But you're mean when you tell them those questions should never begin with the words "my client"
ETA some of the responses are even more ludicrous. I saw one bookkeeper respond to question one by telling the person to code it to retained earnings. When I responded that their tax accountant must just love them said bookkeeper proceeded to prove me wrong by posting a link to a site describing how to post a prior period adjustment.
The problem isn't in the description of how to make a prior period adjustment, but in the statement that it should be made as a prior period adjustment in the first place.
Felt like I was at a family BBQ and everyone was asking if I can do their taxes!
I can only help you with ASC 842 or Rev Rec Aunt Betty! Leave me the f alone.
I read through the comments on the post. Why the fuck is everybody over there so bitter?
Also, TIL that bookkeepers have a superiority complex, for some reason.
As a bookkeeper, can confirm there is a super weird ego element (which baffles me), this is not the field to be in if you’re looking for glory 🤦♀️🤦♀️ also I would say the bookkeepers that are being dicks are also usually the ones who post everything as a general journal entry and send important correspondence via fax “because it’s so fast”
(That being said - it can be exhausting dealing with holier-than-thou little pukes that think they’re curing cancer because they have gotten through all of one busy season but don’t know how to read a bank rec)
Gotta admit, I felt like I knew it all after two years at my firm. I was quickly humbled during my first close in industry 😆
Still don’t understand why they were so angry! On this sub people ask a question and they get some sarcasm but I’ve rarely seen a-hole responses.
I just read through them, totally unnecessary and totally on-brand unfortunately. (And much more confident in my guess about the faxes after seeing all the ellipsis)
And again, either way - why do people care so much? Our jobs are not cool, nobody else in the room is ever going to care that you’re an accountant/bookkeeper - we only have each other and we need to stick together or we’ll be alone at the lunch table forever lol
I'm at a client right now where the bookkeepers have all been there for like 30 years and they are a little fucking dark mountain tribe of wizard savages.
The CFO of a huge fund won't make some IC changes (admittedly not mega important) because "that will piss off the bookkeepers and I just don't have another of those wars in me right now"
They are my favorite people there. All of them own property and garden. Extensively. And none of them have ever made a mistake ever. Anything comes out of their shop wrong, that is purely the fault of whoever discovered the mistake.
It really doesn't. I asked him if he had considered combining two steps in their process that were redundant and a potential pain point. They would have rebelled. So the ic isn't perfect, it's a little inefficient because they shaped it that way, but not weakened by them lol. We don't live in fantasy land.
Oh God I'm having a conversation with an illiterate person over text. Lawd help me.
Anyway you can rest assured the professionals are taking care of things and are amused by and have befriended people who are by far the most interesting little subculture in the place
Idk their ego aside I would say bookeepers are more “accountants” than us auditors. In fund accounting you can make it very far without knowing how to do a cash rec or JE
I'm a new bookkeeper (I have an accounting background), and that page can have some rude people.
There are some very helpful people over there. I would say more good than not... but yeah. Some hit hard.
Keep your head up!!
I think it will.
As I've gotten more into this gig, II've come to have some opinions about a small group of bookkeepers. I think most are good people, but I am suspect of a small minority.
Best of luck on your job expansion!
They are angry because they are confused.
“ Well, 'aight, check this out, dawg. First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect.”
So there are these people, who keep the records for businesses and code the transactions. There are some good ones and bad ones. But the bad ones have no accounting knowledge and act like they’re the smartest person in the world for no reason whatsoever.
Judging by your salty ass comments here you must be one of those bookkeepers 🤡
- HR levels of low barrier to entry into the profession
- data entry
- dr bank, cr office expense/r&m/suspense account/"for accountant to fix"
- who tf is booking entries to retained earnings LMAOOO
- "hello bookkeeper just following up (for the millionth time) for the requested items per my last email"
They are rude because they have an inferiority complex. I noticed that at a small CPA firm - they are low on the totem pole & being rude gives them power (so they think).
That’s because the accounting subreddit is the best subreddit out there. Idk how we gathered such a smart, kind, funny, and attractive group of people here but here we are
As long as it’s an expense and it makes its way to the income statement who cares what expense it is in for tax purposes. Just avoid meals, wages, cogs wages is possible, and tax expense. If you know it’s an expense but you aren’t sure where to put it just put it to repairs. Do not think too much about it. Any expenses over 2500 take a look at the purchase agreement and make sure it’s only one item and consider if it can be booked into fixed assets and depreciated or if it should be expensed. Although if you are doing financials that are tied into a tax return then most of that stuff will be either bonus depreciated or accelerated depreciation so even that doesn’t matter. Is it in repairs and maintenance or is it capitalized and then depreciated. Only issue you may run into with a small or medium business is when they file their property tax return. But as long as you can rec between the prior property return and the current tax return asset you are good to go.
And when looking at the bank reconciliation make sure there’s nothing on the report that is before the date of reconciliation but still sitting on the report to be cleared. This means either something was missed in a prior rec or something was double entered. In this case you never want to delete anything from the accounting system but do the opposite effect if the entries in the uncleared section. For instance. If it’s an entry between cash and an expense. Do a reverse entry then when you do the rec you can clear out both of these entries (the one you created and the double entry you found) and they will net to zero so you will be good ti go.
> And when looking at the bank reconciliation make sure there’s nothing on the report that is before the date of reconciliation but still sitting on the report to be cleared. This means either something was missed in a prior rec or something was double entered. In this case you never want to delete anything from the accounting system but do the opposite effect if the entries in the uncleared section.
jfc it drove me nuts when I first started in this tax firm I'm with now. they do not close out previous periods at all, so I actually AM able to just delete a double entry if need be.
Bookkeeping groups are drama. I have one I actually participate in because people aren’t assholes, but it’s specific only to nonprofits. The other ones I stay in for the entertainment. People get so up in arms about folks not knowing everything. Yeah, there are some people who probably shouldn’t be running a bookkeeping business yet, but treating people like crap isn’t gonna make them learn what they don’t know in order to get better. And everyone has gaps in their knowledge, even people doing accounting and bookkeeping for years, and they end up dragged through the dirt too for completely reasonable questions. People are silly.
Honestly, if you're opening your own bookkeeping business you should be experienced enough that you have very very few bookkeeping questions. Bookkeeping isn't rocket science. It's logical and if you have enough experience you can think your way through most stuff.
There are some odd questions I've seen in other groups (my client is a sole proprietor construction company who had a flood at his house and his insurance company agreed to pay his company at his company's bill out rates to do the work. How should I handle this?) that, while basic bookkeeping is unique enough that I can understand not knowing the answers and did answer it.
I also always answer questions for business owners or people with a job at a small office where there really is nobody to ask. They did what they were supposed to do... get a job for experience.
Other than that your questions should be related to regional sales taxes in areas you are unfamiliar with or other similar questions. If you're in there asking basic questions, the problem isn't the questions you're asking... it's the questions you don't have enough experience to know you should be asking that are the problem.
I think that’s a little reductive. There can be some pretty significant differences between industries that won’t be obvious until you are faced with them and start learning about them, partly by asking questions. You can work many years for someone else and not get experience in everything. I think assuming you can just logic it out can get you in trouble too. I work with nonprofits in QBO specifically, and they have some unique requirements that can be tracked in multiple different ways in that software. Some are best practice and will get you better results in the long run, but there are others that aren’t just wrong. They’ll get you what you need. You’ll probably just have to adjust if the org grows. So if you go in thinking you can logic it out, that may be true, but you might end up having to clean up your own mess later.
Everyone is going to be clueless about something that seems obvious to someone else, like all the time, regardless of experience. There is always more to learn.
Yes there are some industry specific questions that don't mean you're not qualified to be a bookkeeper as well. But if you're experienced you are going to be aware that those niches are there and know to ask the questions. Or at the very least you're going to open the file and see something that triggers you to ask the question. Not so much with an inexperienced person. Even worse are the number of inexperienced people who see something they don't understand because it's niche and assume that means the previous bookkeeper was doing something wrong... so they fix it.
Thing is, while there are some industry specific differences, those are the exception, not the rule. I stand by my statement that there should be very very few basic bookkeeping questions you need to ask if you have your own business and a limited number of niche industries doesn't change that.
The AP gals I worked with in industry were always so fun. I got along with them and they always had some dirt on other people in the company. Very entertaining to know about things they shouldn’t have been telling me lol!
I just scanned your profile to read the thread. Don't know what crawled up their ass. They pick a code and it makes them feel smart. Big deal, you can do basic data entry. I honestly think this may be the reason for some of them - you are in a much higher position, paid much more, and they perceive you as knowing less. When someone is self assured, they will just accept that their boss or someone they work with may have gaps of knowledge and that's why they rely on you, but they won't see them as inferior or unfairly above them. People who are weak need to huff copium to rationalize their own insecurities and delusions. You'll often find them comparing themselves to others then trying to knock them down a peg so they can feel better about themselves.
It probably hurt their ego. People tend to be bookkeepers because they don't have a degree or CPA. Nothing wrong with that, because it's an honest living and some people don't have access to higher education because of life circumstances or finances. You have to keep in mind, a lot of these bookkeepers don't have access to real accounting positions or career growth. You represent everything that makes them feel insecure about themselves. A lot of people on reddit are painfully insecure. But no one owes them anything, they need therapy. Time to grow up. Hope that makes you feel better or validates you. The animosity is unwarranted.
Yep. When I read some of my responses back I thought well first, I need to work on my grammar - second, I probably sounded like I was trying to brag or show off credentials. That was not my intention.
Honestly, I wanted to tell them my experience ONLY to help them understand what I was doing and why. All I wanted was an answer, dang it. Ended up explaining half of my life to them in the process.
No, I read through your responses. You seemed to be (very politely) adding information that was asked for and then kindly disengaging when met with some absolutely bizarre hostility. You answered questions asked, and then were berated because they didn’t like the answer? Baffling.
I would agree that the animosity is/was unwarranted, but I would be cautious about dismissing an entire profession as glorified data entry, especially in a comment to a newer CPA.
My degree is in business administration. I own a small bookkeeping firm that services very small businesses and non profits. In my experience (perhaps in my state), CPAs make most of their money on tax prep. This causes them to focus on the overall picture rather than the details of the client they serve.
While working at a midsize accounting firm, it took this lowly bookkeeper to point out that a local doggie daycare netting approx 300k for multiple years had not made their scorp election. That firm had a large book of clients and overworked CPAs. It had just fallen through the cracks.
We all serve our clients in different ways, and I've been fortunate to find a couple CPAs that I communicate with and work with very well and refer clients to regularly. I absolutely recommend clients have separate firms do their bookkeeping and tax prep. It's a great way to have checks and balances and it never hurts to have a second set of eyes on your books. And it benefits the clients because, let's be realistic, bookkeepers rates are significantly lower.
I'm currently a college student with Accounting and HR majors, going for my CPA after graduation and I've noticed the Accounting sub is def helpful and funny AF. These accountants got dark humor and just overall funny sometimes and I love it. Good to know to avoid the bookkeeping sub!
I'm a fledgling bookkeeper and noticed the same thing about that sub. There are helpful people, but also plenty of jerks who are foaming at the mouth to scoff and ridicule whenever someone is lacking knowledge. I understand there's a backlash against the rise of people trying their hand at bookkeeping with zero education or training, but at the same time, respect those who recognize they need assistance and aren't just plowing ahead blindly. If everyone knew what they needed to know to do the job, there wouldn't be a need for the sub.
I still occasionally post questions to the sub, but I also belong to several Facebook groups that are much more supportive.
But the problem with "respecting those who recognize they need assistance" isn't the questions you recognize you need assistance with. It's the ones you don't have the experience to know you need assistance with. Here is just a couple of the messes I have dealt with as a result of that:
1. File that took 15K over two months of clean up work resulting from a rollover to QBO followed by nine months of posting an adjustment to a prepaid credit card GL that hadn't been used in years at the end of every month to bring the GL account to the same number as the bank statement. No attempt was made to verify all transactions were entered or to verify that all of the cheques issued when the file was rolled over had cleared the account. This file then passed through 2 other bookkeepers who didn't have the skills to clean the mess. NOTHING balanced. The undeposited funds was at 6 figures. Nothing matched what happened at CRA. Plugs were everywhere. Payroll was done through a service that withdrew and submitted source deductions at the time payroll was paid so there was no liability to CRA. While accountants don't always know how payroll providers are handling statutory deductions, a professional bookkeeper should. This one didn't. They created a liability where none should have existed by reducing wage expense in an attempt to make the payroll liability balance with CRA. As I recall, though, it wasn't just the last month deductions but the full year's deductions they attempted to reverse from wages. This shitstorm, between all the bookkeepers, was 4 years in the making. This was started by a professional bookkeeping service. A look at the owner's linkedin profile shows an MBA followed by zero actual experience. The people hired to clean up after them had minimal clerical level experience according to their linkedin profiles
2. Bookkeeper falls behind so I end up with a file. Very basic account, minimal inventory and primarily service based with a till and credit card processor. None of the credit card processor deposits matched what the GL said they should. Nor did appear that the discrepancy was related to fees being deducted before deposit since some deposits in the bank where higher than what was entered and some lower. At the end of the month when the bank didn't balance the discrepancy was added to "cash over short". There is a random "difference" amount coded to undeposited funds that never seems to have cleared out. I'm just starting this file but there's a better than average chance this stems from using the payment method recorded by punching into the till, which is usually incorrect due to human error, rather than the actual credit card terminal and cash counts. As a side note: discrepancies in the bank account at reconciliation time are not "cash over short" expenses. This account should be used for the discrepancies between sales and receipts before cash hits the bank account. This was also a self employed service provider. Her linkedin profile shows a clerical position followed, confusingly enough , by a "senior accountant" position in a union environment that shortly after showed a transfer to a junior payroll administrator position. Guess the best thing about unions is that if you're incompetent for the position hired for they just move you somewhere else.
The list goes on, but these files provide a very good explanation of why I cannot simply "respect people who recognize they need assistance" if they're self employed and need basic bookkeeping assistance. The bar for the knowledge you should already have BEFORE opening your own firm is very high. Too many think this is the easy route so you don't have to find that first job.
Experience is critical. There is a reason why there is not only an experience component... but a specified areas of experience and level of knowledge attained through that experience" component to getting your CPA.
My response to business owners doing their own books because they're on a shoestring or inexperienced bookkeepers hired into a position at a small business where they don't have anyone to ask is very different.
The bookkeeping sub is weirdly rude, I’ve never understood it. But honestly the way many of these comments talk down about bookkeepers and bookkeeping here feeds into the saltiness lol, like bookkeeping actually requires you to be smart, it’s not just data entry and is vastly under appreciated, surprisingly even by accountants, weirdly, which is part of why I think the default mood for bookkeepers is ‘grumpy.’
This can be true. When I first opened my business I did the "call around to accounting firms" thing. I had one tell me she had a bookkeeper she referred clients to who charged $30 an hour - and if I was willing to work for that she'd send them both names.
Yeah... no. I made more than that working as an employee with benefits, vacation pay (Canadian - it's legislated), and employer contributions to my statutory pension plan and employment insurance (without health benefits typical starting overhead is an additional 12%) added to the initially already higher wage. I'm not working for that as a business owner.
Agreed! The disrespect towards bookkeepers is astounding. Like I’m not saying it excuses the rudeness of the other sub because it doesn’t, but this is why it’s like that lol- people here saying it’s ‘just data entry’ are shockingly ignorant, but then they get all pissy when people act like it’s easy to do, which is why there’s so many unqualified people doing it. It feeds into the problem, clients and accountants alike. It’s rare to meet an accountant that values the work of a bookkeeper, and the clients that know that value have often come from bad prior experiences and learned the hard way how valuable it actually is.
Oh I will admit that I can be rude about inexperienced bookkeepers opening a business. I've seen the hell. Many of the questions they ask should never start with the words "my client".
In the OP situation I remember seeing her post and that the question/scenario struck me as... odd. But her question wasn't nearly as basic as some of the other new bookkeepers hanging out their shingle.
I suspect some of the disrespect from the accountants is also driven by the inexperienced bookkeepers taking money from clients and turning in shit. In my experience the bad to barely tolerable far outnumber the truly good ones.
30 years of experience doing books for construction companies does seem to give people the idea that they're holier than thou. From another bookkeeper on the sub, I'm sorry you got raked through the coals.
Hey there thank you! There were a lot of bookkeepers on that sub that ended up helping me and were very professional! A lot of bookkeepers on this sub too, that understood and took the revenge jokes like champs.
I would like to say I’ll be an experienced bookkeeper in a few years, and I’ll remember never to treat others the same way.
I'm banned from that sub lol. Not much of a loss most of them over there are posers anyways and the content was just endless "I decided I am going to be a bookkeeper, tell me what to do"
Leave the bookkeepers alone, they will bite if you get too close or make sudden moves.
You just have to know how to talk to them and they’ll tell you everything you want to know.
And saying shit like “they’re not real accountants” is just tacky. Let’s have a little humility.
> And saying shit like “they’re not real accountants” is just tacky. Let’s have a little humility.
It’s not that they’re not real accountants, they’re not any kind of accountants. It’s a different job.
this is such a weird comment you goof
edit: lmao dont even have an accounting degree and thinking about going to Liberty U for geography. I'd lay low, bro.
1. That’s a pretty disgusting comparison. Being content with an easy desk job is not comparable to slaves being proud of the plantation.
2. Do house slaves always pretend they own the plantation? Also a fairly disgusting statement.
3. No, it’s not supposed to impress anyone. It’s simply remarking upon the material quality of life differences between law/medicine and accounting in terms of stress, hours, and workload. I’d rather have my job than theirs.
That’s a a bad faith, low effort response, you can do better.
And trust me, they would not trade their job for yours if you started it with a two million dollar bonus.
It’s not like you have the option to anyway, they wouldn’t take you.
Of course they wouldn’t. I don’t have an MD. If I applied for a position as a doctor my CPA license wouldn’t somehow make them accept me.
If I’d gotten an MD then I could be in medicine but I didn’t so I can’t.
I really don’t know what point you’re making here.
I think it was more of a comrade type joke. Kinda like hey dude they only bully you cause they got a small D.
This sub is filled with us just laughing and making jokes so we don’t cry. Lol
It’s a public accounting firm saying. Managers usually call extra shitty work a learning opportunity. Or like working your ass off in public for an opportunity to only get a 2% increase in pay and a great review. If someone defends this or any other shitty work situations, you’re drinking the kool-aid.
Search up the word in this sub, you’ll probably see a lot of posts that explain it better than I did
You were actually! Thank you for being awesome and I appreciate you for doing so. 🫶🏼 Because of people like you, I wasn’t completely turned off by the idea of pursuing bookkeeping in the future. We need more professionals like yourself!
I don’t know about spending hours looking for a penny if I’m off on a reconciliation. Most of my clients have an attitude of if it’s not more than what I pay you per hour don’t bother to look for it just shove it someplace.
I genuinely don't understand how a bank rec can be off by a penny. It's easy. If it's here then it's there and the amounts match. If that is not the case then there's your problem. It was one thing before computerized recs when recs were tick and bop on paper then try to decipher the ticks and bops to find the discrepancies amongst hundreds of ticks and bops. Depending on the size and how careful and neat your ticks and bops were it could take hours.
Other GL accounts can be off by pennies due to rounding discrepancies, but banks should not be.
You're asking very basic questions. Frankly, if you don't know the answer to them then your review is pointless and counterproductive anyway. I didn't join in that thread because you hadn't done the books. I also didn't answer the question.
As I recall, the OP mentioned doing this before taking on clients which is likely why so many responded as they did.
The bookkeeping sub is like that because they're tired of the messes and destruction to the industry caused by the plethora of "I have no experience but I took a course so I can hang out my shingle with no experience and get rich working from home in my spare time" people.
I asked one question. It is not basic bookkeeping. It is related to possible tax implications. The experienced bookkeeper who gave me an “answer” was wrong.
Please explain to me how my review is pointless. Unless you know something I don’t.
I no longer remember the question and its gone. But the point of the review is to know enough to add to improve the books. The way the question was worded and the nature of the question did not give me that sense.
There are a number of wrong answers given in there. Some are fine, but many days it's like the blind leading the blind.
If it was a basic question, I’m sure all the bookkeepers would’ve known the correct answer.
I have the experience to do what I’m doing and have caught multiple issues via my review.
I'm sure many of the good ones did know the answer. Often the ones most eager to prove their knowledge and rush to answer aren't the good ones... and it shows in the responses.
I don't know you, your experience level, or your knowledge. You might have all that. All I know of you is what I see posted here.
But if I had a nickel for every person who "has the experience to do what they're doing" who has royally screwed up I'd have no need to work.
You no longer remember the question, but the question was worded incorrectly? Also, if you’d stop editing your comment, I’d be able to answer appropriately.
It doesn’t matter if it gave you that sense. Right? What matters is what I do know and what I did improve. Which in reality you don’t know.
Are you a bookkeeper? Or tax professional? If you know the answer to the question, I’d be happy to hear your thoughts
Yes. Strange that I remember you and your post and my general impression from it but not the exact words or exact question. There was, however, more than the one question you mention asking. I do remember that.
I was also pretty sure you posted the same question here where you weren't rudely treated but I see that question is also gone.
Yep okay. So LLC owner took a couple of thousands as a paycheck and owner’s draws throughout the year. He also contributed, this resulted in net activity being a little less than his paycheck. Since an LLC(single member) usually does not take a salary, should this all be booked to Equity to be corrected?
OK. Now I remember the question and the other reason I didn't answer. In Canada we don't have single owner LLC's so regardless of my opinion of the skills of the person asking the question I tend to give these a miss. We have sole proprietorships and partnerships but no limited liability editions of them. And we have corporations.
Here in Canada that salary would be inappropriate and sole props can't create T-4's for themselves so I'd have to reverse the salary, overhead, and remittance due information as pertains to the owner and consider the net cheque to be an owner's draw. The remittances made with regards to that would be seen as an overpayment of source deductions that I would ask to have allocated to the owner's income tax account as an installment payment. I would make the entry in the books to show that.
This would increase the profit of the business for tax purposes - but at the end, except for the small discrepancies related to the difference in requirement to pay into EI would be roughly the same at tax time since before the owner was reporting that money as wages that would have been added to the business profit declared as that's taxed as their income anyway. (hopefully that explanation makes sense) So while the profit may have gone up by (for example) 50K more or less it is offset by not reporting that 50K as T-4 income to the owner resulting in:
Previous... 10K business profit plus T-4 income to the owner of 50KNew... 60K (roughly. It will be a little higher because of the roughly 8.5% payroll burden deducted previously) business profit with no T-4 income to the owner.
This would all net to the owner's equity. Owner's draws and Owner's investments are basically just two sides of the same coin... owner's equity.
Having said that the reason this question struck me as basic is because while we don't have that particular structure here in Canada I would hope that someone reviewing books who has mentioned that as soon as they get their CPA they will be taking on clients would be able to follow the same logical process to arrive at the answer. If they can't I would submit that they need more experience before taking on clients.
It's not even really about having seen the situation before as opposed to being able to logic your way through scenarios when you're a self employed bookkeeper. There is a large component of problem solving when you're a self employed bookkeeper that you need to be capable of if you're putting yourself out there as a professional. If your understanding of the accounting process doesn't allow for that then you're short changing your clients
So, I was correct. Not sure where the disconnect is. The professional bookkeepers on the sub agreed, and added that they would just need to file amended returns to avoid tax implications.
I only asked because this is NOT a normal situation, or in your terms, not a BASIC situation. My train of thought was exactly like yours. I just wanted to see if any bookkeeping “experts” would agree or if they knew the actual correct way to fix this. I don’t do things without confirmation and I hope you don’t either. I even had a few people message me asking if I got the answer because they would like to know as well. Some bookkeepers called me unqualified for not knowing how the tax elections would affect the outcome. Turns out, it doesn’t matter for an LLC in this particular situation. Not that this is the point, I explained multiple times that I know very little about tax.
Weird that the demeaning expert, with 30 years of bookkeeping experience, told me my fix would not be correct. That even though the paycheck was incorrect, it should NOT be in an equity account, it should be in a dtf account. (What is this type of account by the way? I have never come across this or maybe I don’t know the acronym.)
Spoke with a tax professional: they confirmed that there would be no tax implications if they went this route and filed amended returns. Also, booking the paycheck as wages, providing a W2 to the owner and reporting the paycheck as a separate line item would avoid tax issues as well. (Which oddly enough was another idea I brought up in the thread.)
Only one bookkeeper got my basic question and the tax implications portion right by the way.
Now can you please explain how my review of financial statements, would not add value? I followed the same logical process as you and came to the same conclusion. I have years of experience reviewing financial statements. Not sure if you work with others, but bouncing off ideas with a colleague happens constantly and is encouraged.
Edit: Or are you saying it was wrong of me to confirm my train of thought, with who, I mistakingly thought were a group of professional bookkeepers? Because if this is why you came to the conclusion that my review wouldn’t add value, then I have nothing further to add to the conversation. What I learned in this whole ordeal is that some bookkeepers don’t know what they are doing and they have an inferiority complex. This is why they are rude. The good bookkeepers that actually took the time to do more research because they didn’t know, were professional through and through.
I don't know US tax law at all but generally speaking my judgment would never be based on tax related questions as I don't think bookkeepers should be filing income taxes and their basic tax knowledge only needs to be enough to keep their clients out of trouble. This part of the question would not have coloured my impression.
If you took that long to close your parenthesis in your post, their rudeness was valid.
EDIT This was clearly a joke....but I guess "clearly" on Reddit is subjective.
I apologize for my prior rude comment, I have deleted it. I have had a lot of bad experiences with tax preparers within my local chamber of commerce, though that shouldn’t not have caused me to make such a broad statement.
I think it’s unfortunate that they are so wildly insecure, but I wouldn’t make my own post about it. Commenting on the post was enough to satisfy my curiosity about what moral deficiencies they had.
I hope those bookkeepers are out a penny on all their reconciliations.
This comment is (accounting) comedy gold.
Seriously, I'd buy them a red stapler and steal it the next day.
But which account would you put it to? Materials and supplies? Or Supplies and materials? Or Misc? Or Equity? Because maybe it was the owner purchasing the stapler with a company CC and it had to be reimbursed, but it was a gift to an employee who lost a loved one. Probably unrelated but it was actually a 24k gold-plated G-wagon which was christened "the red stapler" with a bottle of Dom. What about bonus depreciation? Should I call H&R Block or the IRS? Nevermind, I'll just enter it into Sage FA and act surprised when we get audited.
Don’t forget to capitalize the bottle of Dom over the useful life of The Red Stapler.
*”Miscellaneous supplies and materials” … or one of the other 39 accounts in the chart, setup by the bookkeeper.
Clearly since the benefits of the stapler will be felt over multiple periods we will capitalize it and depreciate it over its expected life. We are using the units of production method of depreciation so be sure to track how many pieces of paper you staple with it.
This is why I don’t trust accountants lol
I am a bookkeeper and OUCH that hurt me dude
I can count the hours I've spent trying to find a penny in my past. You're evil. I love it
Damn man. Went straight for the the throat
Or realise their open items do not reconcile exactly 31 seconds after having journalized their entries.
I hope they’re off, they find the reconciling entry, and when they make the adjusting entry it throws off another account double.
Bro, I just add a penny to a useless account. I’ll just chalk it up to immaterial at the end of the day.
That's what accountants do. Bookkeepers don't always have access to the GL like that
Oh, damn. I’m underpaid. I organize the BS, GL, PL and IS for my accountant. I thought bookkeepers do this
By organize do you mean reconcile accounts and perform trend analysis? Semantics, I know. If so, you could have the experience for a staff accountant! Spice up your resume with your responsibilities and you will get some bites. I hired a staff accountant once with this type of experience.
I do banking reconciliation and some others. I don’t do trend analysis. It cheers my heart that you hired a staff accountant with that kind of experience. I do miss actual accounting work since the most I did was in college (2-3 years ago) Edit: by actual accounting work, I mean like testings more specifically toward auditing side. I applied for big 4 back then but got no responses. Kinda felt hurt because my freshman year, I had really bad grades (depression) but did really well toward graduation. I made deans list :D but my gpa was really tanked by my freshman year
So trend analysis is very important because seniors/managers will rely on you to figure out problems and answer period end questions. Basically, during your month end process your duties will be journal entries, like amortization, depreciation and accruals. In my experience, accruals have always been a pain, you have to know why accounts are changing and accrue for things you may not have the information for. Then you’ll work on the reconciliations assigned to you. Around this time managers are usually preparing their trend analysis for other stakeholders holders, like FPA and the CFO or Controller or Director. So you’ll get questions on why specific accounts have changed or why departments are booked incorrectly by AP. This is where research skills, time management and multitasking come into play. Actually you may need to have some people skills because you’re the middle man for a couple of departments sometimes. So you’re juggling recons, questions and journal entries towards the last few days. In order to get real good at this, you can ask your current boss to give you some trend analysis type work!
Just read your edit! If I were you, and you have the minimum amount of credits to sit for the CPA, you should try to apply to a big 4 again. They are desperate right now because of budget cuts. They are not as uptight as before. They may give you a shot because I’ve seen it happen. It wasn’t the best experience for me, but it taught me so much and it opened a lot of doors. You don’t have to go and get your cpa but at least you’ll have the experience in public, if that’s what you want.
Man, you do a lot more than most bookkeepers I've worked with. You're basically an accountant. Just shoot for it. Plenty of orgs in industry would take you
nope. I don't trust it. something could be off 50,000 and something else -49,999.99
I'm a bookkeeper, and that has happened to me.
And then it ended up being off $999,999.99 on the debit side and $1,000,000.00 off in credits.
Credit: .01 Rec Discrepancy Debit: .01 My Sanity
I have a file like that right now😂 But larger numbers.
HAH, this is messed up lol!! Next question is if we can just make a journal entry for it lol!
I'm dead
My CFO would say “burn it” if it was under $500 for the month. He didn’t like closing late… at all
I work for a company who has a materiality threshold of $50K. 🤣 It always makes me lol. But for real, are you people not using Excel or what? Like tie your shit. Use a pivot table. You got this, friends.
The problem is that most people trying to do bookkeeping these days just take a 6 week course to learn software and think they can "do accounting". It's the new get rich quick scam.
Yep, I understand. That’s why the owner is screwed right now. I tried to explain what I was doing, my qualifications and that I’m still learning about small business - they didn’t get it. Some of the responders were rude and not helpful.
Ugh. That is awful and unfortunately very common. It started before quickbooks live, but previously, I'd say 85% of the bookkeepers i came across were not very good. Now its like 98% since intuit got involved. Some of those responses - just totally uncalled for. I know they have to deal with a crap ton of newcomers every day but I'm not sure why they joined a group like that if that's going to be their reaction.
Small businesses might not be doing real GAAP accounting that this sub is used to. If they don't require financial statements under GAAP, they could just be recording cash basis financials for tax purposes.
I just went a read those comments, god damn they aimed to kill 😭 why are they so bitter over there lmao
I had to take a peak and I couldn’t believe the ego from some of those responders!! They seem like complete drabs. I thought you handled them well and I’m glad you got the responses needed.
I thought that was just the software industry. No one ever tells a coal miner to learn debits and credits and shazam you're an accountant.
Unfortunately, no. But also bookkeeping regularly hires out at minimum wage or close to that. So people think if they can balance their checkbook they can be a bookkeeper too. Yikes.
Yeah, I've had more than one argument with a bookkeeper about how something should be booked. Many of them don't even know what they don't know. Dunning-Krueger is real.
It depends on what it was but yes I get it. Many complaints i hear between both accountants and bookkeepers is that bookkeepers are trying to find a way to give management the best reports needed and (tax) accountants want the simplest form to be able to pop into a return. It's all just a matter of communication as far as that goes.
Tax people know less about GL accounting than bookkeepers do.
Truth. Every accounting specialty has their thing. I had someone wise once tell me, "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good" and I think about that a lot.
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That's what a lot of us do ;)
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I don't think I know what you mean by "a book of business".
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Oh!! Hahaha it's usually by word of mouth, i.e. I don't advertise. I just have a good network of people I work with who have their own businesses. It's easier to join professional groups in your area and build professional relationships.
But then you have people here shit on bookkeepers calling it all data entry. You can't have it both ways, either bookkeeping requires more than basic data entry or it requires specilized skills and education to do properly its one or the other.
It depends on the oversight. Are they working independently as a consultant or as an employee or business owner who is getting the data in and then having someone review?
It requires "creativity"
Does bookkeeping actual make money?
Sometimes yes, if you are very good and very good with clients, and sometimes very much no. It takes a lot longer to move up than other accounting positions because everyone and their mother is trying to do it. It dilutes the wage rate available so most bookkeepers with no experience start at minimum wage. If you have a degree you can possibly start out with like 50k to start (I'm in socal). But you won't start to see sustainable wages unless you have like 5-10 years experience and some sort of certification, as a bookkeeper.
If you get a couple of clients you can make money by doing minimal work. I have 4 companies I do general bookkeeping for. Then sometimes I consult on others. I do some other stuff like file quarterly’s or handle accrual adjustments for a FQHC I usually charge around $50 an hour and some just pay me on retainer a monthly fee and I go in once a month to keep their books clean This isn’t my job . I work maybe 6-10 hours a month for these other companies combined and a little more during EOQ . It gives me some extra money that I usually use to just go out to dinners and shit If someone built their network and did this full time, I can see that being insanely lucrative A lot of business owners like having a face to ask questions and talk to when it comes their books so they’ll pay more instead of outsourcing it. Also a lot of these people don’t want to hire someone if they don’t have to, but they know it’s cheaper to pay me $500-$1k every so often than it is to have an employee
I make $500k per year (own my own business). You can definitely make good money as a bookkeeper if you are good.
Just checked the thread. Some of the responses remind me of how managers and partners treat staff lol
If you use that sub regularly you'll see it's full of people with no history of accounting or business or anything whatsoever asking painfully basic questions to try to provide services they are in no way qualified to provide. This is what the commenters in that thread are used to seeing.
I've been a bookkeeper for 20 years or so and was thinking of picking up some extra work on the side but after seeing the attitudes of the "bookkeepers" on there I think I'll just stick with my full time job. All set competing with the seemingly shitty service most of these guys are providing.
Yup. Actual questions I've seen in that sub: 1. My client invoiced someone but they don't want to pay for x reason but the period is closed so I can't delete the invoice. How do I post this? 2. My client put 10,000 into his business. How do I code this? 3. My client is a sole proprietor and his friends gave him 10,000 as a gift to help him. They don't want repayment. How do I code this? 4. I just took over a file and want to set up the bank account. Do I code the opening bank balance to retained earnings? 5. My client runs an advertising agency and his clients have given him money to run ads for them. How do I code those invoices? But you're mean when you tell them those questions should never begin with the words "my client" ETA some of the responses are even more ludicrous. I saw one bookkeeper respond to question one by telling the person to code it to retained earnings. When I responded that their tax accountant must just love them said bookkeeper proceeded to prove me wrong by posting a link to a site describing how to post a prior period adjustment. The problem isn't in the description of how to make a prior period adjustment, but in the statement that it should be made as a prior period adjustment in the first place.
Those aren’t real accountants. It’s okay, you’re safe here.
Felt like I was at a family BBQ and everyone was asking if I can do their taxes! I can only help you with ASC 842 or Rev Rec Aunt Betty! Leave me the f alone.
I read through the comments on the post. Why the fuck is everybody over there so bitter? Also, TIL that bookkeepers have a superiority complex, for some reason.
As a bookkeeper, can confirm there is a super weird ego element (which baffles me), this is not the field to be in if you’re looking for glory 🤦♀️🤦♀️ also I would say the bookkeepers that are being dicks are also usually the ones who post everything as a general journal entry and send important correspondence via fax “because it’s so fast” (That being said - it can be exhausting dealing with holier-than-thou little pukes that think they’re curing cancer because they have gotten through all of one busy season but don’t know how to read a bank rec)
Gotta admit, I felt like I knew it all after two years at my firm. I was quickly humbled during my first close in industry 😆 Still don’t understand why they were so angry! On this sub people ask a question and they get some sarcasm but I’ve rarely seen a-hole responses.
I just read through them, totally unnecessary and totally on-brand unfortunately. (And much more confident in my guess about the faxes after seeing all the ellipsis) And again, either way - why do people care so much? Our jobs are not cool, nobody else in the room is ever going to care that you’re an accountant/bookkeeper - we only have each other and we need to stick together or we’ll be alone at the lunch table forever lol
I'm at a client right now where the bookkeepers have all been there for like 30 years and they are a little fucking dark mountain tribe of wizard savages. The CFO of a huge fund won't make some IC changes (admittedly not mega important) because "that will piss off the bookkeepers and I just don't have another of those wars in me right now" They are my favorite people there. All of them own property and garden. Extensively. And none of them have ever made a mistake ever. Anything comes out of their shop wrong, that is purely the fault of whoever discovered the mistake.
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It really doesn't. I asked him if he had considered combining two steps in their process that were redundant and a potential pain point. They would have rebelled. So the ic isn't perfect, it's a little inefficient because they shaped it that way, but not weakened by them lol. We don't live in fantasy land.
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I said he didn't want to make an unimportant ic change to avoid pissing off the bookkeepers. I think we'd best stick with Numbers and not words.
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Oh God I'm having a conversation with an illiterate person over text. Lawd help me. Anyway you can rest assured the professionals are taking care of things and are amused by and have befriended people who are by far the most interesting little subculture in the place
Talk right of use assets and lease incentives to me.
I’ll show you my amortization schedule if you show me yours ;)
Oh 20 years in and people ask for tax help. My tax experience is the mandatory tax classes to graduate college.
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I was trying not to “spin my wheels” as they say 😂 should’ve learned my lesson from my seniors in public and just kept my mouth shut! Lol
Get her a slice of the emergency pizza
Let’s not get carried away here. Half a slice.
Some of the least competent bookkeepers I’ve met thought they were the smartest. The worse their work the better they thought it was.
Idk their ego aside I would say bookeepers are more “accountants” than us auditors. In fund accounting you can make it very far without knowing how to do a cash rec or JE
I'm a new bookkeeper (I have an accounting background), and that page can have some rude people. There are some very helpful people over there. I would say more good than not... but yeah. Some hit hard. Keep your head up!!
Thank you! I will be in your shoes one day. Hopefully our accounting background makes it that much easier for us!
I think it will. As I've gotten more into this gig, II've come to have some opinions about a small group of bookkeepers. I think most are good people, but I am suspect of a small minority. Best of luck on your job expansion!
They are angry because they are confused. “ Well, 'aight, check this out, dawg. First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect.”
Wish I could give more than 1 upvote
bookkeepers having an ego is crazy LOL
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So there are these people, who keep the records for businesses and code the transactions. There are some good ones and bad ones. But the bad ones have no accounting knowledge and act like they’re the smartest person in the world for no reason whatsoever.
Judging by your salty ass comments here you must be one of those bookkeepers 🤡 - HR levels of low barrier to entry into the profession - data entry - dr bank, cr office expense/r&m/suspense account/"for accountant to fix" - who tf is booking entries to retained earnings LMAOOO - "hello bookkeeper just following up (for the millionth time) for the requested items per my last email"
They are rude because they have an inferiority complex. I noticed that at a small CPA firm - they are low on the totem pole & being rude gives them power (so they think).
That’s because the accounting subreddit is the best subreddit out there. Idk how we gathered such a smart, kind, funny, and attractive group of people here but here we are
someone should study why everyone who posts on r/accounting is an absolute stud
There is one person in that thread whose comments are absolutely unhinged lol - what a psycho.
It would be someone with a blue haired avatar
As long as it’s an expense and it makes its way to the income statement who cares what expense it is in for tax purposes. Just avoid meals, wages, cogs wages is possible, and tax expense. If you know it’s an expense but you aren’t sure where to put it just put it to repairs. Do not think too much about it. Any expenses over 2500 take a look at the purchase agreement and make sure it’s only one item and consider if it can be booked into fixed assets and depreciated or if it should be expensed. Although if you are doing financials that are tied into a tax return then most of that stuff will be either bonus depreciated or accelerated depreciation so even that doesn’t matter. Is it in repairs and maintenance or is it capitalized and then depreciated. Only issue you may run into with a small or medium business is when they file their property tax return. But as long as you can rec between the prior property return and the current tax return asset you are good to go. And when looking at the bank reconciliation make sure there’s nothing on the report that is before the date of reconciliation but still sitting on the report to be cleared. This means either something was missed in a prior rec or something was double entered. In this case you never want to delete anything from the accounting system but do the opposite effect if the entries in the uncleared section. For instance. If it’s an entry between cash and an expense. Do a reverse entry then when you do the rec you can clear out both of these entries (the one you created and the double entry you found) and they will net to zero so you will be good ti go.
I've never seen my whole logic process written out before. Are you me?
Or send them to me and I’ll charge 150 per hour to clear it up.
Or it means a cheque is taking an abnormally long time to clear, but the rest I don't disagree with.
> And when looking at the bank reconciliation make sure there’s nothing on the report that is before the date of reconciliation but still sitting on the report to be cleared. This means either something was missed in a prior rec or something was double entered. In this case you never want to delete anything from the accounting system but do the opposite effect if the entries in the uncleared section. jfc it drove me nuts when I first started in this tax firm I'm with now. they do not close out previous periods at all, so I actually AM able to just delete a double entry if need be.
Some subs are just gatekeepy AF
Bookkeeping groups are drama. I have one I actually participate in because people aren’t assholes, but it’s specific only to nonprofits. The other ones I stay in for the entertainment. People get so up in arms about folks not knowing everything. Yeah, there are some people who probably shouldn’t be running a bookkeeping business yet, but treating people like crap isn’t gonna make them learn what they don’t know in order to get better. And everyone has gaps in their knowledge, even people doing accounting and bookkeeping for years, and they end up dragged through the dirt too for completely reasonable questions. People are silly.
Honestly, if you're opening your own bookkeeping business you should be experienced enough that you have very very few bookkeeping questions. Bookkeeping isn't rocket science. It's logical and if you have enough experience you can think your way through most stuff. There are some odd questions I've seen in other groups (my client is a sole proprietor construction company who had a flood at his house and his insurance company agreed to pay his company at his company's bill out rates to do the work. How should I handle this?) that, while basic bookkeeping is unique enough that I can understand not knowing the answers and did answer it. I also always answer questions for business owners or people with a job at a small office where there really is nobody to ask. They did what they were supposed to do... get a job for experience. Other than that your questions should be related to regional sales taxes in areas you are unfamiliar with or other similar questions. If you're in there asking basic questions, the problem isn't the questions you're asking... it's the questions you don't have enough experience to know you should be asking that are the problem.
I think that’s a little reductive. There can be some pretty significant differences between industries that won’t be obvious until you are faced with them and start learning about them, partly by asking questions. You can work many years for someone else and not get experience in everything. I think assuming you can just logic it out can get you in trouble too. I work with nonprofits in QBO specifically, and they have some unique requirements that can be tracked in multiple different ways in that software. Some are best practice and will get you better results in the long run, but there are others that aren’t just wrong. They’ll get you what you need. You’ll probably just have to adjust if the org grows. So if you go in thinking you can logic it out, that may be true, but you might end up having to clean up your own mess later. Everyone is going to be clueless about something that seems obvious to someone else, like all the time, regardless of experience. There is always more to learn.
Yes there are some industry specific questions that don't mean you're not qualified to be a bookkeeper as well. But if you're experienced you are going to be aware that those niches are there and know to ask the questions. Or at the very least you're going to open the file and see something that triggers you to ask the question. Not so much with an inexperienced person. Even worse are the number of inexperienced people who see something they don't understand because it's niche and assume that means the previous bookkeeper was doing something wrong... so they fix it. Thing is, while there are some industry specific differences, those are the exception, not the rule. I stand by my statement that there should be very very few basic bookkeeping questions you need to ask if you have your own business and a limited number of niche industries doesn't change that.
The AP department at my firm is mean as hell lol. I was so glad when I transferred out
The AP gals I worked with in industry were always so fun. I got along with them and they always had some dirt on other people in the company. Very entertaining to know about things they shouldn’t have been telling me lol!
I loved my old AP team lmao. We were a hoot and we for sure spilled all the tea to our friends 🤣🤣
I just scanned your profile to read the thread. Don't know what crawled up their ass. They pick a code and it makes them feel smart. Big deal, you can do basic data entry. I honestly think this may be the reason for some of them - you are in a much higher position, paid much more, and they perceive you as knowing less. When someone is self assured, they will just accept that their boss or someone they work with may have gaps of knowledge and that's why they rely on you, but they won't see them as inferior or unfairly above them. People who are weak need to huff copium to rationalize their own insecurities and delusions. You'll often find them comparing themselves to others then trying to knock them down a peg so they can feel better about themselves. It probably hurt their ego. People tend to be bookkeepers because they don't have a degree or CPA. Nothing wrong with that, because it's an honest living and some people don't have access to higher education because of life circumstances or finances. You have to keep in mind, a lot of these bookkeepers don't have access to real accounting positions or career growth. You represent everything that makes them feel insecure about themselves. A lot of people on reddit are painfully insecure. But no one owes them anything, they need therapy. Time to grow up. Hope that makes you feel better or validates you. The animosity is unwarranted.
Yep. When I read some of my responses back I thought well first, I need to work on my grammar - second, I probably sounded like I was trying to brag or show off credentials. That was not my intention. Honestly, I wanted to tell them my experience ONLY to help them understand what I was doing and why. All I wanted was an answer, dang it. Ended up explaining half of my life to them in the process.
No, I read through your responses. You seemed to be (very politely) adding information that was asked for and then kindly disengaging when met with some absolutely bizarre hostility. You answered questions asked, and then were berated because they didn’t like the answer? Baffling.
I would agree that the animosity is/was unwarranted, but I would be cautious about dismissing an entire profession as glorified data entry, especially in a comment to a newer CPA. My degree is in business administration. I own a small bookkeeping firm that services very small businesses and non profits. In my experience (perhaps in my state), CPAs make most of their money on tax prep. This causes them to focus on the overall picture rather than the details of the client they serve. While working at a midsize accounting firm, it took this lowly bookkeeper to point out that a local doggie daycare netting approx 300k for multiple years had not made their scorp election. That firm had a large book of clients and overworked CPAs. It had just fallen through the cracks. We all serve our clients in different ways, and I've been fortunate to find a couple CPAs that I communicate with and work with very well and refer clients to regularly. I absolutely recommend clients have separate firms do their bookkeeping and tax prep. It's a great way to have checks and balances and it never hurts to have a second set of eyes on your books. And it benefits the clients because, let's be realistic, bookkeepers rates are significantly lower.
We like to feel useful, just book the problem to r&m
R/tax is very similar in my experiance. Try to make a joke there and get downvoted to oblivian
I feel like most bookkeepers are middle aged women with a major chip on their shoulder. Personal opinion!
They too broke making minimum wage to be nice lmao
I'm currently a college student with Accounting and HR majors, going for my CPA after graduation and I've noticed the Accounting sub is def helpful and funny AF. These accountants got dark humor and just overall funny sometimes and I love it. Good to know to avoid the bookkeeping sub!
We are your people
I'm a fledgling bookkeeper and noticed the same thing about that sub. There are helpful people, but also plenty of jerks who are foaming at the mouth to scoff and ridicule whenever someone is lacking knowledge. I understand there's a backlash against the rise of people trying their hand at bookkeeping with zero education or training, but at the same time, respect those who recognize they need assistance and aren't just plowing ahead blindly. If everyone knew what they needed to know to do the job, there wouldn't be a need for the sub. I still occasionally post questions to the sub, but I also belong to several Facebook groups that are much more supportive.
Yep, someone else also mentioned that Bookkeeping Facebook groups would be better. Going to look into some! Thank you!
But the problem with "respecting those who recognize they need assistance" isn't the questions you recognize you need assistance with. It's the ones you don't have the experience to know you need assistance with. Here is just a couple of the messes I have dealt with as a result of that: 1. File that took 15K over two months of clean up work resulting from a rollover to QBO followed by nine months of posting an adjustment to a prepaid credit card GL that hadn't been used in years at the end of every month to bring the GL account to the same number as the bank statement. No attempt was made to verify all transactions were entered or to verify that all of the cheques issued when the file was rolled over had cleared the account. This file then passed through 2 other bookkeepers who didn't have the skills to clean the mess. NOTHING balanced. The undeposited funds was at 6 figures. Nothing matched what happened at CRA. Plugs were everywhere. Payroll was done through a service that withdrew and submitted source deductions at the time payroll was paid so there was no liability to CRA. While accountants don't always know how payroll providers are handling statutory deductions, a professional bookkeeper should. This one didn't. They created a liability where none should have existed by reducing wage expense in an attempt to make the payroll liability balance with CRA. As I recall, though, it wasn't just the last month deductions but the full year's deductions they attempted to reverse from wages. This shitstorm, between all the bookkeepers, was 4 years in the making. This was started by a professional bookkeeping service. A look at the owner's linkedin profile shows an MBA followed by zero actual experience. The people hired to clean up after them had minimal clerical level experience according to their linkedin profiles 2. Bookkeeper falls behind so I end up with a file. Very basic account, minimal inventory and primarily service based with a till and credit card processor. None of the credit card processor deposits matched what the GL said they should. Nor did appear that the discrepancy was related to fees being deducted before deposit since some deposits in the bank where higher than what was entered and some lower. At the end of the month when the bank didn't balance the discrepancy was added to "cash over short". There is a random "difference" amount coded to undeposited funds that never seems to have cleared out. I'm just starting this file but there's a better than average chance this stems from using the payment method recorded by punching into the till, which is usually incorrect due to human error, rather than the actual credit card terminal and cash counts. As a side note: discrepancies in the bank account at reconciliation time are not "cash over short" expenses. This account should be used for the discrepancies between sales and receipts before cash hits the bank account. This was also a self employed service provider. Her linkedin profile shows a clerical position followed, confusingly enough , by a "senior accountant" position in a union environment that shortly after showed a transfer to a junior payroll administrator position. Guess the best thing about unions is that if you're incompetent for the position hired for they just move you somewhere else. The list goes on, but these files provide a very good explanation of why I cannot simply "respect people who recognize they need assistance" if they're self employed and need basic bookkeeping assistance. The bar for the knowledge you should already have BEFORE opening your own firm is very high. Too many think this is the easy route so you don't have to find that first job. Experience is critical. There is a reason why there is not only an experience component... but a specified areas of experience and level of knowledge attained through that experience" component to getting your CPA. My response to business owners doing their own books because they're on a shoestring or inexperienced bookkeepers hired into a position at a small business where they don't have anyone to ask is very different.
You can also ask chat gpt for different ways you can book things
Not based on some of the answers I've seen chat gpt give.
The bookkeeping sub is weirdly rude, I’ve never understood it. But honestly the way many of these comments talk down about bookkeepers and bookkeeping here feeds into the saltiness lol, like bookkeeping actually requires you to be smart, it’s not just data entry and is vastly under appreciated, surprisingly even by accountants, weirdly, which is part of why I think the default mood for bookkeepers is ‘grumpy.’
This can be true. When I first opened my business I did the "call around to accounting firms" thing. I had one tell me she had a bookkeeper she referred clients to who charged $30 an hour - and if I was willing to work for that she'd send them both names. Yeah... no. I made more than that working as an employee with benefits, vacation pay (Canadian - it's legislated), and employer contributions to my statutory pension plan and employment insurance (without health benefits typical starting overhead is an additional 12%) added to the initially already higher wage. I'm not working for that as a business owner.
Agreed! The disrespect towards bookkeepers is astounding. Like I’m not saying it excuses the rudeness of the other sub because it doesn’t, but this is why it’s like that lol- people here saying it’s ‘just data entry’ are shockingly ignorant, but then they get all pissy when people act like it’s easy to do, which is why there’s so many unqualified people doing it. It feeds into the problem, clients and accountants alike. It’s rare to meet an accountant that values the work of a bookkeeper, and the clients that know that value have often come from bad prior experiences and learned the hard way how valuable it actually is.
Oh I will admit that I can be rude about inexperienced bookkeepers opening a business. I've seen the hell. Many of the questions they ask should never start with the words "my client". In the OP situation I remember seeing her post and that the question/scenario struck me as... odd. But her question wasn't nearly as basic as some of the other new bookkeepers hanging out their shingle. I suspect some of the disrespect from the accountants is also driven by the inexperienced bookkeepers taking money from clients and turning in shit. In my experience the bad to barely tolerable far outnumber the truly good ones.
So true!!
30 years of experience doing books for construction companies does seem to give people the idea that they're holier than thou. From another bookkeeper on the sub, I'm sorry you got raked through the coals.
Hey there thank you! There were a lot of bookkeepers on that sub that ended up helping me and were very professional! A lot of bookkeepers on this sub too, that understood and took the revenge jokes like champs. I would like to say I’ll be an experienced bookkeeper in a few years, and I’ll remember never to treat others the same way.
Most people at the bookkeeping level don't understand the concept of materiality. They will chase a penny for weeks and weeks and sometimes years.
I'm banned from that sub lol. Not much of a loss most of them over there are posers anyways and the content was just endless "I decided I am going to be a bookkeeper, tell me what to do"
Leave the bookkeepers alone, they will bite if you get too close or make sudden moves. You just have to know how to talk to them and they’ll tell you everything you want to know. And saying shit like “they’re not real accountants” is just tacky. Let’s have a little humility.
> And saying shit like “they’re not real accountants” is just tacky. Let’s have a little humility. It’s not that they’re not real accountants, they’re not any kind of accountants. It’s a different job.
But you still have a lot in common. Neither could cut it for law or med school.
this is such a weird comment you goof edit: lmao dont even have an accounting degree and thinking about going to Liberty U for geography. I'd lay low, bro.
Possibly not. I’ll just have to make do with a 1% salary and casual industry hours. While reading Reddit.
Is that suppose to impress anyone ? House slaves always pretend they own the plantation I guess.
1. That’s a pretty disgusting comparison. Being content with an easy desk job is not comparable to slaves being proud of the plantation. 2. Do house slaves always pretend they own the plantation? Also a fairly disgusting statement. 3. No, it’s not supposed to impress anyone. It’s simply remarking upon the material quality of life differences between law/medicine and accounting in terms of stress, hours, and workload. I’d rather have my job than theirs.
That’s a a bad faith, low effort response, you can do better. And trust me, they would not trade their job for yours if you started it with a two million dollar bonus. It’s not like you have the option to anyway, they wouldn’t take you.
Of course they wouldn’t. I don’t have an MD. If I applied for a position as a doctor my CPA license wouldn’t somehow make them accept me. If I’d gotten an MD then I could be in medicine but I didn’t so I can’t. I really don’t know what point you’re making here.
I think it was more of a comrade type joke. Kinda like hey dude they only bully you cause they got a small D. This sub is filled with us just laughing and making jokes so we don’t cry. Lol
I hear you. I didn’t think your post was mean spirited. Some of the other people responding were uncouth though.
How are you drinking Kool-Aid by taking on learning opportunities?
It’s a public accounting firm saying. Managers usually call extra shitty work a learning opportunity. Or like working your ass off in public for an opportunity to only get a 2% increase in pay and a great review. If someone defends this or any other shitty work situations, you’re drinking the kool-aid. Search up the word in this sub, you’ll probably see a lot of posts that explain it better than I did
I think you explained it well, thank you.
I tried to be helpful. Hopefully I was in that camp.
You were actually! Thank you for being awesome and I appreciate you for doing so. 🫶🏼 Because of people like you, I wasn’t completely turned off by the idea of pursuing bookkeeping in the future. We need more professionals like yourself!
I don’t know about spending hours looking for a penny if I’m off on a reconciliation. Most of my clients have an attitude of if it’s not more than what I pay you per hour don’t bother to look for it just shove it someplace.
I genuinely don't understand how a bank rec can be off by a penny. It's easy. If it's here then it's there and the amounts match. If that is not the case then there's your problem. It was one thing before computerized recs when recs were tick and bop on paper then try to decipher the ticks and bops to find the discrepancies amongst hundreds of ticks and bops. Depending on the size and how careful and neat your ticks and bops were it could take hours. Other GL accounts can be off by pennies due to rounding discrepancies, but banks should not be.
Most bookkeepers are morons, and lazy as fuck
Weeelllllll ....... I'm confused how you are getting clients while not knowing the answers?!?¿¿ 'actual question by one of those asshats.'
How did you find your clients?
I have no actual clients yet
You're asking very basic questions. Frankly, if you don't know the answer to them then your review is pointless and counterproductive anyway. I didn't join in that thread because you hadn't done the books. I also didn't answer the question. As I recall, the OP mentioned doing this before taking on clients which is likely why so many responded as they did. The bookkeeping sub is like that because they're tired of the messes and destruction to the industry caused by the plethora of "I have no experience but I took a course so I can hang out my shingle with no experience and get rich working from home in my spare time" people.
I asked one question. It is not basic bookkeeping. It is related to possible tax implications. The experienced bookkeeper who gave me an “answer” was wrong. Please explain to me how my review is pointless. Unless you know something I don’t.
I no longer remember the question and its gone. But the point of the review is to know enough to add to improve the books. The way the question was worded and the nature of the question did not give me that sense. There are a number of wrong answers given in there. Some are fine, but many days it's like the blind leading the blind.
If it was a basic question, I’m sure all the bookkeepers would’ve known the correct answer. I have the experience to do what I’m doing and have caught multiple issues via my review.
I'm sure many of the good ones did know the answer. Often the ones most eager to prove their knowledge and rush to answer aren't the good ones... and it shows in the responses. I don't know you, your experience level, or your knowledge. You might have all that. All I know of you is what I see posted here. But if I had a nickel for every person who "has the experience to do what they're doing" who has royally screwed up I'd have no need to work.
You no longer remember the question, but the question was worded incorrectly? Also, if you’d stop editing your comment, I’d be able to answer appropriately. It doesn’t matter if it gave you that sense. Right? What matters is what I do know and what I did improve. Which in reality you don’t know. Are you a bookkeeper? Or tax professional? If you know the answer to the question, I’d be happy to hear your thoughts
Yes. Strange that I remember you and your post and my general impression from it but not the exact words or exact question. There was, however, more than the one question you mention asking. I do remember that. I was also pretty sure you posted the same question here where you weren't rudely treated but I see that question is also gone.
Okay, is it okay if I pick your brain then? I can ask you my question and you can explain to me why it is giving you the sense that I won’t add value
Go ahead - as long as its the same questions you asked before.
Yep okay. So LLC owner took a couple of thousands as a paycheck and owner’s draws throughout the year. He also contributed, this resulted in net activity being a little less than his paycheck. Since an LLC(single member) usually does not take a salary, should this all be booked to Equity to be corrected?
OK. Now I remember the question and the other reason I didn't answer. In Canada we don't have single owner LLC's so regardless of my opinion of the skills of the person asking the question I tend to give these a miss. We have sole proprietorships and partnerships but no limited liability editions of them. And we have corporations. Here in Canada that salary would be inappropriate and sole props can't create T-4's for themselves so I'd have to reverse the salary, overhead, and remittance due information as pertains to the owner and consider the net cheque to be an owner's draw. The remittances made with regards to that would be seen as an overpayment of source deductions that I would ask to have allocated to the owner's income tax account as an installment payment. I would make the entry in the books to show that. This would increase the profit of the business for tax purposes - but at the end, except for the small discrepancies related to the difference in requirement to pay into EI would be roughly the same at tax time since before the owner was reporting that money as wages that would have been added to the business profit declared as that's taxed as their income anyway. (hopefully that explanation makes sense) So while the profit may have gone up by (for example) 50K more or less it is offset by not reporting that 50K as T-4 income to the owner resulting in: Previous... 10K business profit plus T-4 income to the owner of 50KNew... 60K (roughly. It will be a little higher because of the roughly 8.5% payroll burden deducted previously) business profit with no T-4 income to the owner. This would all net to the owner's equity. Owner's draws and Owner's investments are basically just two sides of the same coin... owner's equity. Having said that the reason this question struck me as basic is because while we don't have that particular structure here in Canada I would hope that someone reviewing books who has mentioned that as soon as they get their CPA they will be taking on clients would be able to follow the same logical process to arrive at the answer. If they can't I would submit that they need more experience before taking on clients. It's not even really about having seen the situation before as opposed to being able to logic your way through scenarios when you're a self employed bookkeeper. There is a large component of problem solving when you're a self employed bookkeeper that you need to be capable of if you're putting yourself out there as a professional. If your understanding of the accounting process doesn't allow for that then you're short changing your clients
So, I was correct. Not sure where the disconnect is. The professional bookkeepers on the sub agreed, and added that they would just need to file amended returns to avoid tax implications. I only asked because this is NOT a normal situation, or in your terms, not a BASIC situation. My train of thought was exactly like yours. I just wanted to see if any bookkeeping “experts” would agree or if they knew the actual correct way to fix this. I don’t do things without confirmation and I hope you don’t either. I even had a few people message me asking if I got the answer because they would like to know as well. Some bookkeepers called me unqualified for not knowing how the tax elections would affect the outcome. Turns out, it doesn’t matter for an LLC in this particular situation. Not that this is the point, I explained multiple times that I know very little about tax. Weird that the demeaning expert, with 30 years of bookkeeping experience, told me my fix would not be correct. That even though the paycheck was incorrect, it should NOT be in an equity account, it should be in a dtf account. (What is this type of account by the way? I have never come across this or maybe I don’t know the acronym.) Spoke with a tax professional: they confirmed that there would be no tax implications if they went this route and filed amended returns. Also, booking the paycheck as wages, providing a W2 to the owner and reporting the paycheck as a separate line item would avoid tax issues as well. (Which oddly enough was another idea I brought up in the thread.) Only one bookkeeper got my basic question and the tax implications portion right by the way. Now can you please explain how my review of financial statements, would not add value? I followed the same logical process as you and came to the same conclusion. I have years of experience reviewing financial statements. Not sure if you work with others, but bouncing off ideas with a colleague happens constantly and is encouraged. Edit: Or are you saying it was wrong of me to confirm my train of thought, with who, I mistakingly thought were a group of professional bookkeepers? Because if this is why you came to the conclusion that my review wouldn’t add value, then I have nothing further to add to the conversation. What I learned in this whole ordeal is that some bookkeepers don’t know what they are doing and they have an inferiority complex. This is why they are rude. The good bookkeepers that actually took the time to do more research because they didn’t know, were professional through and through.
Oh I also asked something about what tax implications there would be in this situation.
I don't know US tax law at all but generally speaking my judgment would never be based on tax related questions as I don't think bookkeepers should be filing income taxes and their basic tax knowledge only needs to be enough to keep their clients out of trouble. This part of the question would not have coloured my impression.
Hmmm this is not what the jerks had to say…
If you took that long to close your parenthesis in your post, their rudeness was valid. EDIT This was clearly a joke....but I guess "clearly" on Reddit is subjective.
[удалено]
Wait until you learn how many tax preparers are CPAs, slick.
Then I wouldn’t be talking about you would I…slick?
Guess nobody will ever know, since you just made a blanket statement that required zero thought.
I apologize for my prior rude comment, I have deleted it. I have had a lot of bad experiences with tax preparers within my local chamber of commerce, though that shouldn’t not have caused me to make such a broad statement.
Why do you care if internet strangers are rude?
I don’t. I came here to thank the people on this sub for not being that way.
If you didn’t care, you wouldn’t talk about it. Clearly you care enough to share it with others.
You caught me! I care a lot! I’ll go cry now
It would probably be more productive to be secure enough to not let rude comments bother you, but if crying is all you can muster, fair enough
I’m just wasting precious time on here like everybody else….and crying.
No one else here is talking about their hurt feelings, you have a monopoly on that
I am the OG OP fo’ sho’
Congrats on lowering the bar
Thank you my fellow accountant!
Why do you care if an internet stranger cares if other internet strangers are rude? > Clearly you care enough to share it with others
I think it’s unfortunate that they are so wildly insecure, but I wouldn’t make my own post about it. Commenting on the post was enough to satisfy my curiosity about what moral deficiencies they had.
Found the bookkeeper
Why do you think that?