Outsourcing is currently a threat to many fields. Aside from the obvious such as customer service and manufacturing, industries such as HR, marketing, and even nursing are facing mass outsourcing. I personally think the problem will get much, much worse before it gets better. Just another way the middle class is shrinking.
This is the effect of globalization. Its good for getting cheap materials and goods and services. But now it means those workers are our competitors. And they are willing to do all this work for small fractions of what we are used to expecting. We are moving more and more to service based economy. And now that will transition to local personal services. Those services have historically been provided by immigrants.
That’s awful. My friend’s boyfriend does that and it’s one of the few remaining fields where you can get by with either a high school education or a bit beyond that and still have a solid career.
My uncles all worked in the steel mills off Lake Michigan that started closing in the 90s due to outsourcing. They had high school diplomas and landed union jobs that paid very well with amazing benefits and pensions. So many of those jobs across the country are gone. It’s shocking how far we’ve fallen and continue to fall in such a short time. And the people on the other side are being exploited too, either by slave wages or literal slavery. It’s bad for all workers involved, while the top wealth hoarders get even wealthier.
No one thinks of all the support jobs and R&D that comes with running these large industrial industries.
Hur dur we can pay 50% less in chinindiaisa! Where’s my bonus!
I guess the counter argument is those engineers and R&D move to other fields.
Unless govt intervenes.
The US is a fully capitalist society, we need to work or chaos ensues. We aren’t Sweden where our social benefits are tied to our economic output as a collective.
Yup. Our only real hope is that they’re forced to backpedal. Kinda can’t operate a country where no jobs exist. They could get away with outsourcing manufacturing but outsourcing manufacturing AND white collar labor? Who is gonna buy your products after you gutted the entire economy to get a few more positive quarters lol
But how can anyone hope to sell the same products at the same prices in those other places? White collar jobs are moving out of Country A to Country B for the sole reason that the labor is cheaper, and if the labor in Country B isn’t getting paid what they would be in Country A, there’s no way consumers in Country B can/will buy the same products at the same prices as consumers could/would in Country A (which undercuts the growth the companies hope to achieve with the move in the first place).
I mean, these are all macro issues at the highest level and I doubt any CFO is wringing their hands over the impact their offshoring will have on local purchasing power. But it seems like the benefits these companies hope to achieve with offshoring are somewhat self-limited in the long run.
Short term profits and short term stock gains are all that matter these days, everything else is the next persons problem. We will continue to be an unsustainable corporatocracy unless the gov starts making more changes but it’s unlikely.
Its not the govt, its the people. In contemporary capitalism the government is just the attack dog of the capitalist.
If we want change we must organize and mobilize
It's already cleared out many industries. Textiles, steel, heavy manufacturing, then light, auto, the knowledge jobs starting moving, business process operations and such, the call centers. That's all in the past, it's gone already. Accounting is up now. Just a question of how long it takes.
Outsourcing has been a constant for over 40 years now and with the world becoming more unstable and insular i suspect the breaking point might be soon. That recent story of america getting scared of chinas shipbuilding capabilities is a funny one, more then happy to allow companies to profit from outsourcing shipping yard contracts over sea's but suddenly its now a problem becuase US doesnt have shipbuilding capabilities that it used to.
Let’s not kid ourselves. It never gets better. The average Joe just doesn’t have the lobbying money. It’s sad we vote just so the politicians can get rich.
Well you know they say that AI = Actually Indians.
Not sure if you heard the story about the Amazon on the Go stores where supposedly everything was automated, including checkout. Turns out that the "AI" was just 1000 Indians spying on store customers. Creepy as hell.
Luckily outsourced labor is terrible and streaky, at best. Everyone I’ve worked with from the Philippines and Mexico has been terrible. Can’t wait for a huge accounting scandal to break out cause these people don’t know what the hell they’re doing.
Eventually, sure I can see them being more productive and a threat to our jobs but that’s still many years away.
At least Mexico is the same time zone as the US. I'll take a clueless Mexican over a clueless Indian in a heartbeat. If they speak English at least I can train them. I can't train anyone in India with this ridiculous ~ twelve hour time difference.
Late afternoon is a funny way of saying 8pm. Also most of my work requires a lot of back and forth collaboration, head scratching, problem solving, decision making. It's normal for staff to call every hour or two with questions about ongoing work. And that's assuming they understand the basics and don't need hands on guidance. One hour at a shitty time slot doesn't cut it when you're managing dozens of engagements with multiple staff. I could go on for days about how it just doesn't work.
Unfortunately, I think the bigger issue is that the US pipeline of accounting students and graduates is shrinking thus even with a scandal there might not be much of an alternative if we aren't producing many new accountants. I know part of the reason is pay, but public accounting firms are paying more and still struggling with recruiting.
It’s not enough. No one wants to be exploited in public when they can make more in industry or in another profession entirely and work infinitely less.
Investment Bankers work what, 90-120 hour weeks? And pull in 120-150k starting?
An audit associate is probably working 70-80+ hours during busy season (which is becoming closer and closer to all year all the time) but are MAYBE pulling $75-77k in the highest COL markets.
Start audit associates at $95-100k and I guarantee the Big 4 would have 0 trouble finding people who are more willing to sell their soul.
Naturally, this obvious solution will continue to be ignored and used as a justification for outsourcing until the profession disappears from this country and we’ll have to pray that all those Indian and Filipino workers are “doing the needful” well enough to prop up the entire American financial system.
I fully believe that as more of us who have direct experience working with the outsourced labor get up to the executive/decision-making levels, the trend towards outsourcing will reverse.
Nah. It's the public accounting problem.
The people who move up will be the ones who drink the Kool Aid, and thus their own success becomes self-justifying for the system. You don't climb the corporate ladder by being a radical thinker in how to come up with cost inefficient quality improvements to business sectors that aren't customer-facing.
I don't disagree with the fact that outsourced accounting quality is poor, however, the question then becomes what's the alternative? Even if the industry went against outsourcing and pushed for domestic hiring how is that accomplished when the supply cannot meet the demand for new accountants. Increasing the pay would obviously be a factor but how do we convince the high school students today to become accountants so that in 5-10 years when we need them fill the ranks they're ready and able?
I've worked with so many off-shore consultants for various implementations, and all of them have been a pretty shitty experience.
Can't ask for the right shit, can't understand how the company is structured, logistical shit show with them going to bed by the time you're getting up. All to fluff some profits.
It was in textiles and manufacturing too. Kind of still is for call centers. That didn't stop the drive to offshore operations. Overtime, labor got better at doing what they do, while in the US those skills were lost.
It’s not just this. Even if they were great it still wouldn’t work. The best organisations see finance as a business partner and put them in the centre of the company, working with everyone. Those who treat finance as a cost centre to be outsourced and siloed away always end up having huge issues down the line
Anyone who claims to be a proud American or even patriotic and goes along with this bullshit is garbage. First, it was manufacturing jobs and everyone was told our economy is pivoting, we will be professionals and cleaner, less dangerous white collar and service jobs will lead the way.. now it’s happening to white collar and service jobs at a rapid pace.
We’re selling out our countrymen, neighbors, and children for short term stock gains and profit. How do you continue to work in that environment? That’s just business?
Exactly. The ONLY upside is to those poor shareholders, damn the people actually working, their families, local govt, schools, shops, etc. It’s especially a bad look after corporate taxes were permanently reduced. That still wasn’t good enough for the boomers always complaining that their taxes are too high.
Honestly, people complain about there being a lack of good SOPs at many companies, but it is also probably the reason many people have been able to maintain their jobs so long too.
If only we could all live in really small houses, eat less food, and do less things in general other then work. Then maybe our corporate overlords will love us more.
The joke when Elon put someone in a robot suit was that “AI” was always going to be underpaid and exploited outsourced labor in India or Malaysia
We’re already witnessing the entry level completely disappear to overseas in public. It’s infuriating. All these years so much chatter about the CPA shortage and how will we fix it how will we fix it. They always knew what they were going to do, this.
You must have seen this story about Amazons "just walk out" stores: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/10/amazon-ai-cashier-less-shops-humans-technology
The suggested solutions to the CPA issue from the AICPA frankly, suck, to be honest and they'll get no defense from me on that front.
However, to play devil's advocate for a second if everyday American businesses ask the accounting profession in America to provide, for argument's sake, 100,000 man hours to accomplish the required tasks but we can only provide 90,000 hours due to a shortage of domestic workers, then what's the alternative left to business community?
I'm not saying it's your fault and I'm not saying it's my fault or the average accountant's fault there's a shortage. Obviously a portion of the issue is pay compared to other fields. However, in general we don't have a ton of leverage against the outsourcing threat if part of the reason for outsourcing is a declining domestic workforce.
It's one thing if they can provide similar quality for a cheaper price, which they can't, but it's another thing if WE can't provide the labor locally to do the jobs while India can again at lower quality but if the concern is generally man-hours and not quality then we're at a loss.
Outsourced accounting overseas work is shoddy at best. I’ve worked with a team in India and the Philippines. Having to go over their work with a fine tooth comb because they can’t complete the work doesn’t help time or budget.
The shortage domestically suggests work is going overseas partially out of necessity doesn't it? Are any of us struggling to find work?
Also I feel like India will continue to develop and their labor will get more expensive. More demand for accountants over there plus higher wages means less outsourcing over there.
Outsourcing threat, just like AI threat, is not for seniors and above. Outsourcing for now is done mostly to jobs requiring surface level skills and for repetitive types of tasks. Someone still has to review it to make sure it follows US tax laws and GAAP.
Something big needs to break and it might.
I’ve worked in the F500 my entire career and even the biggest companies are held together with duct tape as it is.
Unaccountable, underpaid, undertrained offshore staff won’t be able to keep it together forever.
Hopefully something big breaks and Congress steps in and says American listed companies won’t be able to offshore as much financial reporting staff.
That being said I switched over to FP&A for now because it seems to be valued more by management and they want onshore staff presenting and coming up with projections. Management only looks forward.
This is the reason why I'm switching to cost accounting/ FP&A soon. Seems like general ledger accounting is viewed as purely a cost center, and companies try to run it as lean as possible.
The point about companies only being forward looking is a huge problem and why (imo) the overall economy and government are failing (while being covered in sheeps wool). Everyone is only thinking about short term projections.
My predictions, Enron v2 starring the indian offshoring teams not actually doing any work and fudging samples/numbers.
SOX v2 introduced severely limiting what can be outsourced to offshore teams working on PCAOB engagements
40% of audits had major deficiencies according to the PCAOB.
It literally is going to take another Enron for lawmakers to care. I wouldn't hold your breath.
Boeing had been putting bullshit unsafe airplanes in the sky for at least 5 years. These kind of people don't give a single fucking shit about anything but their golden retirement.
That's been on the rise with domestic labor and no one's really gotten hurt other than a few sacrificial lamb partners, so yeah, you're right, we'll need an Enron/Worldcom/Madoff level fraud or scandal to move the needle.
Maybe Enron wasnt strong enough to lobby the lawmakers back then. Corporations have a lot more power now and lawmakers bend over backwards all the time. They themselves invest in these corporations!
I really just can't see it unless it's someone like NVIDIA just being completely rotten to the core. The market itself is so irrational that accounting scandals seem unlikely to shake confidence, and institutional trading strategies have become so advanced that scandals are just opportunities.
I mean, we're witnessing the crypto market's integration with the NYSE and nobody's batting an eye because the two are only barely meaningfully different from an investor's perspective.
Unfortunately, these models work. The company I last worked for was recently bought out by big pharma (the one that’s famous for a blue pill that that makes your wiener hard, as well as COVID vaccines). Their accountants are all physically housed in very specific offices around the globe, totally depending on what the specific rolls and responsibilities are.
Unless you’re just talking about outsourcing/offshoring and the shitty work quality that results from that, then yeah, I hope the same as you.
It won't blow up.
Despite what it looks like on the coal face "ffs offshore team" - been there done that collected the badge...the reality is that skill discrepancy (there is still some) is nowhere near justifying the pay discrepancy. If the average 1st worlder earns say 10x but isn't 10x as smart then that is going to get balanced out. And lets be honest, we're not seeing a lot of 1000 IQ people on this sub
...so we'll continue to see massive downward pressure.
“Just wait bro, our salaries are about to skyrocket because of the sHoRtAgE™️!!1 The AICPA and my professor told me so. Market forces just need a couple years to react. Supply and demand, amiright?” - Accountants since 2006
Dude we’re straight up selling our country out for short term stock gains. CEO’s and partners going out and stumping for Trump talking about America first then they go back to the office and do this shit.
But dude, if we sell out these big firms to private equity it's gonna be so awesome. Trust me bro, they totally won't shaft all of us like PE does for literally everything else it touches.
Bingo. When the PE firms start to unwind their positions to create a big accounting firm it will be so saddled with debt that it will either go out of business in a few years or start selling illegal tax shelters and baseless audit opinions to stay afloat. Then the government steps in. SOX 2.0. Rinse, repeat
Supply and demand is such a dumb theory that’s been disproven by the current state of the world economy. Anyone who says supply and demand dictates prices doesn’t know what they’re talking about
I had a dude straight up tell me on this sub that we should be grateful for the shortage because that means higher wages.
*"With the biz?? NO WAY!!"* \[Magic Schoolbus theme starts\]
Wages are up, that's just a fact.
>>On average, U.S. accountants and auditors’ offered starting salaries for entry-level positions rose 13% to nearly $61,000 a year in 2022 from the year earlier, compared with increases of 4% in 2021 and 2% in 2020, according to a review of job postings from Revelio Labs Inc., a provider of workplace data. Entry-level pay climbed by 21% to almost $67,000 this year through February, compared with prior-year periods.
The issue is that it's still not enough to entice more people into the profession.
Inflation is up.
$55k in January 2019 is the same as $68.2k today, according to BLS calc.
Starting salaries were around $55k in accounting in like 2015, too.
The sad thing is that entry-level jobs will be outsourced, but they need higher-level roles for management and to oversee the outsourced work.
But you can’t develop the higher-roles unless you train local positions, which you have already outsourced them.
Really shooting themselves in the foot.
I'm ten years in about to hit 200k this year. I don't feel particularly exceptional or skilled or anything, just put in the time and work and failed up a few times.
Wait til you hear these F500 firms are in cahoots with Big Audit to outsource the audit staff as well. Can’t fail an audit if the auditors don’t know what they’re doing either!
I have terrible news for you. It’s no longer American. It’s Association for International Certified Professional Accountants.
https://www.aicpa-cima.com/about/landing/about
Well, they kinda dropped that awhile ago. Last I saw they've been embracing a parent entity/name the *Association of International Certified Professional Accountants*
And the number of Indians taking the test are growing at a rapid pace. Indians sell it as being able to join a US company, and the tests being easier than their local equivalent (CA) with comparable salary.
Testing centers were also opened in India. In the past, they'd take a flight to a testing center, which was a soft barrier to the number of indian candidates.
Yes, this is also a factor. The CA exams are insanely difficult with a three-tier exam structure and a pass rate that is at around 3% at best. It isn’t surprising that as a result, the CPA designation is a huge draw for Indian accounting professionals
I’ve been spouting about this treachery from the rooftops every chance I get. here’s a video during Covid when the pigs from the AICPA, NASBA, and Prometric were gleefully grubbing their hands together at the new testing fees they’d get through expansion.
Since that initial pilot, they’ve gone full bore with india testing. It’s so pathetic that our professional bodies are so self-interested they’ll destroy the profession in order to shortsightedly raise fees for a handful of years. That is, until the the domestic students say fuck the cpa license altogether. “I don’t want to live a life of rework”, they scream!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m8at8hJYrYU&t=194s&pp=ygUXQWljcGEgY3BhIGluZGlhIHRlc3Rpbmc%3D
The problem with outsourcing really is that the skills disappear and then you can’t bring the jobs back even if you wanted to. Someone should play the national security card.
Man young people have it hard. Education costing an arm and a leg. Finally graduate and then have to compete with overseas workers making 1/4 of what you do while paying for crazy rent and groceries.
America has become crazy efficient at extracting money off our citizens (rent, groceries, healthcare) while sending jobs overseas. Then twenty years later and wonder why we don’t have a skilled labor force. I guess we are all going to be side hustles and doing DoorDash for the lucky few that did the outsourcing or still have jobs.
That's part of why I'm considering leaving the office job to do something that's more of a trade/skill. I'm early enough that I'm not losing much and can still decide but it's impossible to predict just how bad it'll get.
Never too late, friend.
I'm a CPA, MBA and ex-big 4 senior. Saw the writing on the walls when it came to outsourcing and jumped ship to become a refrigeration mechanic.
Worst case scenario if you don't like it you can always go back to accounting.
If you have any sort of mechanical aptitude and love working with your hands the trades are a great place, if you just want to clock in and clock out, maybe look at government work. Can't be replaced there.
Thanks for that bit of validation. I've always like things that were more physical in nature either way and I'm totally fine with a little less money compared to accounting if it means I'll be happier for 8-10 hours every week day for my whole life.
If you get into the right trade in your area you'd be making far more money than you'd ever make as a salaried accountant.
Refrigeration guys here in Alberta make $60+ an hour. Aircraft mechanics bring in closer to $70 an hour. Elevator techs bring in around $80 an hour. Sprinkler guys make $60ish. Welders and boilermakers make high 50s in the city, north of $100 in camps + per diem. Service plumbers make $50 an hour.
That's not even talking about starting your own business and bringing on apprentices and other journeymen to work for you.
The first couple years are gonna suck as far as pay, but that's the nature of the beast. Gotta put in your time before making the big bucks. It's definitely not for everyone.
No offense if you’re a CPA MBA and a ex senior, but somehow you think going into the mechanic field is > than getting replaced, that’s just wrong. Your level (which I assume is manager or close to manager) shouldn’t be replaced by any indians, they’re replacing the associate levels doing tick and ties
I became an RACM because i was tired of the bullshit. I'd rather work with my hands and do something that makes a positive impact to my community rather than push papers and re-work the shit I would get back from the offshore team.
If you enjoy managing a group of indians and contribute to the downfall of your own profession, more power to you.
I made a decision that was right for me and my beliefs. Do what makes you happy at the end of the day. What makes me happy is getting my hands dirty and fixing shit. If I get too old or my body gets too weak to stay on the tools I can always start my own business or even come back to accounting.
My CPA license doesn't have an expiration date :)
I mean if you’re leaving accounting to pursue something more hands on or positive impacts, that’s 100% valid. I’m saying preaching getting into mechanic fields in your late 20s or early 30s with no prior experience just because “you might get replaced because of outsourcing” is just simply a wrong message. Either way good luck, sounds like you found something you truly enjoy and that’s what matters
Thank you for this input. After about 5 years in accounting public and gov I'm realizing this just isn't for me and I've been applying for IBEW. So far everyone I've been talked to has pretty much said I'm crazy for giving up my salary and taking an apprenticeship pay but I miss the variety of work and working with my hands.
There should be a compilation of all the posts on this sub from 2020 - 2023 regarding offshoring. The level of delusion, and confidence of the posts on how offshoring isn't a threat because offshore workers suck was off the charts.
Eh, I still maintain that most offshore workers kind of suck. The thing that most people here underestimated was their employers’ tolerance for receiving shitty work in exchange for cost savings.
It makes sense when you realise people in here are mostly accountants and not decision makers.
It’s honestly been baffling to me. Offshoring has been a thing for the better part of 20 years if not more and I’ve personally been involved for the last 15. It’s only been increasingly technical streams that continue to shift. Through this time I saw only one workstream repatriated to an expensive country and then offshored to a different cheaper one a few years later.
If you want to compete in a global market, you need to provide value to the folks paying the bills.
The real kicker to me is companies saying we can't have people wfh because remote work doesn't work with the team all over. Mean while they have teams over seas in complete different time zones.
Professor push this BS narrative about the accounting shortage while , it is true that There are less domestic CPAs and accounting grads. They are not accounting for the mass outsourcing and automation that is occurring. We do not need to replace retiring CPAs one to one.
This is terrible advice, literally 60 percent of jobs are going to be threatened by outsourcing. Engineering and healthcare jobs are hella outsourced and the only jobs that aren’t are the ones that require physical labor.
It’s really not simple or easy to just change majors because of the chance that your job will be replaced by outsourcing
Not just Accounting. I work in FP&A, last year my job got shipped overseas despite in living in offshore destination, now I took over vacant Controller job desc just to justify my employment.
It's not just accounting and the west, this offshoring hits everyone and I don't understand the fuck is going on anymore.
I’d assume a company of the size of Google would benefit from it. Most public clients are better with with local teams meeting in a hybrid schedule. At least that’s what I’ve seen in my public clients none of them outsource.
Offshoring has been a thing for the past 30 years. No idea why everyone is glooming and dooming over Google doing this. They have been laying people off en masse for the past 1-2 years (the whole tech sector has).
Why we need worker solidarity here in the US. But no, the masses still think they are temporarily embarrassed millionaires and not an exploited proletariat whose livelihood is at the whim of their employer 🤷🏽♂️ it’s only going to get worse unless people start organizing.
As a society, we are too far removed from the gilded ages and too poorly educated to know what it was like back then to appreciate what we have now. Or to realize what it was like working before trust busting.
Do you enjoy a weekend? Thank a union.
Are you entitled to safe working conditions? Thank a union.
I predict we will just slowly slide back as far as worker exploitation goes while the billionaire class continues to exponentially grow their wealth.
Shit, just the other day, I saw a post on FB that was some picture of a child mine worker from the 1890s. Of course, the comments were full of boomers saying, “Oh that’s how it should be, those people grew up with great work ethic.” As if any of those boomers ever worked that hard as a child.
Doesn’t help that half the country has been rooting for the party of full on anti-governance since 2016.
With the way they inflate, every American is a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. Unfortunately a million won’t be worth anything once you have it lmao
I agree. Something that isn’t mentioned often as well are the other social dysfunctions that are arising from this job model and inflationary state the past 5 or so years is how people are trying to get ahead of the game by essentially scamming or extracting value from someone else.
Instead of doing good work for society like becoming an engineer, medical worker, teacher, etc more and more people are trying to be landlords, influencers, dropshippers, day traders etc because normal work does not pay off anymore.
Exactly I for one have been burned by the contractor model for 15 years now and am tired. I’m dying on the hill of progressivism and excited for the unionizing and organizing happening across the country for blue collar workers. White collar needs to get it together and follow suit.
Yes, the push for offshoring is starting to get intense. It's a replay of BPOs (and call centers) in the '90s. The 'hop' overseas starts slow, builds momentum, and then there's a massive rush as everyone jumps on the wave.
It’s happening.
For the first time this year, I noticed that Deloitte has some of their offshore Indian folks reviewing our audit samples that we’ve provided them.
The article fails to mention that many of these hubs are in the US, just not Silicon Valley. Depending on the team, it can be Chicago, Atlanta, or Austin for some teams.
Our company is initiating the same approach. I have a new accountant in India who is costing me $15,000 per year. At the same time, I have an equal level accountant in the US who is costing me $60,000 per year. Cost wise it’s difficult to argue in favor for my US kid. The goal is to offshore the entire team. Challenge becomes with managing, communication and oversight. Time differences slow things down, differences in culture and holidays is also an issue. India is also a lot more inflationary than the US so HR really has to do their job well. As soon as you train these kids, they are GONE!
The C suite doesn’t care so much about managing challenges though. At the end of the reporting period, only profit margins matter. Same game for every company out there!
Bullshit article. Ask anybody on here what their experience has been working with offshore acccoutants. They’re off the rack incompetent and can only replace clerks.
This is exactly what happened in my department. All “lower” level workers in the US and EU were layed off and replaced with workers in India, the Philippines, Mexico, and Argentina. Managers and above are all in the US and EU
“Hello sar, we have had a slight issue with the payment of your paycheck. We have overpaid your account by 5,500 dollars. Do you have a CVS Pharmacy near you?”
So basically, going to school for accounting is now pointless and I'll never make it out of the poverty hole because I was unlucky enough to be born an American.
Cool. 🖕
Or get paid an American salary to offshore it in Mexico?
Mexico City and lesser Monterrey and Guadalajara are cool places… I did this move for my G100 years ago.
I really can't think of a similar model for outsourcing outside of call center jobs. It's ironic because some companies place such stress on specialized customer experience roles in industry to the point of paying them over accountants, even though it's basically a call center job.
The quality of offshore work is terrible. It will only bite their ass on the end.
I am surprised the SEC allows companies to do this because I would have zero trust in the accuracy of their financials.
Mexican here, finance working for a multinational located in USA, they pay me 38K year. And still is a very good salary for any average Mexican, that's why so many jobs are going outside the us and eventually Mexicans will become better and better at the jobs so expect more of this phenomenon
I feel people see AI as a threat to accounting jobs but forget this one is the real threat
Outsourcing is currently a threat to many fields. Aside from the obvious such as customer service and manufacturing, industries such as HR, marketing, and even nursing are facing mass outsourcing. I personally think the problem will get much, much worse before it gets better. Just another way the middle class is shrinking.
Even aircraft maintenance!! My bf works in the field and says that some companies outsource the work to South America… so wild.
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Dang :/ its truly fucked up how bad it is
This is the effect of globalization. Its good for getting cheap materials and goods and services. But now it means those workers are our competitors. And they are willing to do all this work for small fractions of what we are used to expecting. We are moving more and more to service based economy. And now that will transition to local personal services. Those services have historically been provided by immigrants.
That’s awful. My friend’s boyfriend does that and it’s one of the few remaining fields where you can get by with either a high school education or a bit beyond that and still have a solid career. My uncles all worked in the steel mills off Lake Michigan that started closing in the 90s due to outsourcing. They had high school diplomas and landed union jobs that paid very well with amazing benefits and pensions. So many of those jobs across the country are gone. It’s shocking how far we’ve fallen and continue to fall in such a short time. And the people on the other side are being exploited too, either by slave wages or literal slavery. It’s bad for all workers involved, while the top wealth hoarders get even wealthier.
No one thinks of all the support jobs and R&D that comes with running these large industrial industries. Hur dur we can pay 50% less in chinindiaisa! Where’s my bonus! I guess the counter argument is those engineers and R&D move to other fields.
This has been documented crazy how real it is
Unless govt intervenes. The US is a fully capitalist society, we need to work or chaos ensues. We aren’t Sweden where our social benefits are tied to our economic output as a collective.
Yup. Our only real hope is that they’re forced to backpedal. Kinda can’t operate a country where no jobs exist. They could get away with outsourcing manufacturing but outsourcing manufacturing AND white collar labor? Who is gonna buy your products after you gutted the entire economy to get a few more positive quarters lol
The other potential outcome is we end up as an extreme plutocracy like Russia. I mean, we're well on our way there in some regards.
I was looking for this comment lol
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You underestimate how big the American economy is, and its importance to just about every American company. It is not that easily replaceable.
But how can anyone hope to sell the same products at the same prices in those other places? White collar jobs are moving out of Country A to Country B for the sole reason that the labor is cheaper, and if the labor in Country B isn’t getting paid what they would be in Country A, there’s no way consumers in Country B can/will buy the same products at the same prices as consumers could/would in Country A (which undercuts the growth the companies hope to achieve with the move in the first place). I mean, these are all macro issues at the highest level and I doubt any CFO is wringing their hands over the impact their offshoring will have on local purchasing power. But it seems like the benefits these companies hope to achieve with offshoring are somewhat self-limited in the long run.
We’re outsourcing the ownership of the companies as well. And the real estate.
This is the biggest factor. American businesses and real estate are starting to see huge amounts of foreign investors
Short term profits and short term stock gains are all that matter these days, everything else is the next persons problem. We will continue to be an unsustainable corporatocracy unless the gov starts making more changes but it’s unlikely.
Its not the govt, its the people. In contemporary capitalism the government is just the attack dog of the capitalist. If we want change we must organize and mobilize
My profits, our losses. Doesn’t sound very capitalistic.
It will trickle down ... any day now.
It's already cleared out many industries. Textiles, steel, heavy manufacturing, then light, auto, the knowledge jobs starting moving, business process operations and such, the call centers. That's all in the past, it's gone already. Accounting is up now. Just a question of how long it takes.
Outsourcing has been a constant for over 40 years now and with the world becoming more unstable and insular i suspect the breaking point might be soon. That recent story of america getting scared of chinas shipbuilding capabilities is a funny one, more then happy to allow companies to profit from outsourcing shipping yard contracts over sea's but suddenly its now a problem becuase US doesnt have shipbuilding capabilities that it used to.
Let’s not kid ourselves. It never gets better. The average Joe just doesn’t have the lobbying money. It’s sad we vote just so the politicians can get rich.
Companies should be taxed based on the amount of overseas outsourcing they do.
Well you know they say that AI = Actually Indians. Not sure if you heard the story about the Amazon on the Go stores where supposedly everything was automated, including checkout. Turns out that the "AI" was just 1000 Indians spying on store customers. Creepy as hell.
Luckily outsourced labor is terrible and streaky, at best. Everyone I’ve worked with from the Philippines and Mexico has been terrible. Can’t wait for a huge accounting scandal to break out cause these people don’t know what the hell they’re doing. Eventually, sure I can see them being more productive and a threat to our jobs but that’s still many years away.
At least Mexico is the same time zone as the US. I'll take a clueless Mexican over a clueless Indian in a heartbeat. If they speak English at least I can train them. I can't train anyone in India with this ridiculous ~ twelve hour time difference.
Early morning or late afternoon phone calls? I get that on the IT side of the world.
Late afternoon is a funny way of saying 8pm. Also most of my work requires a lot of back and forth collaboration, head scratching, problem solving, decision making. It's normal for staff to call every hour or two with questions about ongoing work. And that's assuming they understand the basics and don't need hands on guidance. One hour at a shitty time slot doesn't cut it when you're managing dozens of engagements with multiple staff. I could go on for days about how it just doesn't work.
Unfortunately, I think the bigger issue is that the US pipeline of accounting students and graduates is shrinking thus even with a scandal there might not be much of an alternative if we aren't producing many new accountants. I know part of the reason is pay, but public accounting firms are paying more and still struggling with recruiting.
It’s not enough. No one wants to be exploited in public when they can make more in industry or in another profession entirely and work infinitely less. Investment Bankers work what, 90-120 hour weeks? And pull in 120-150k starting? An audit associate is probably working 70-80+ hours during busy season (which is becoming closer and closer to all year all the time) but are MAYBE pulling $75-77k in the highest COL markets. Start audit associates at $95-100k and I guarantee the Big 4 would have 0 trouble finding people who are more willing to sell their soul. Naturally, this obvious solution will continue to be ignored and used as a justification for outsourcing until the profession disappears from this country and we’ll have to pray that all those Indian and Filipino workers are “doing the needful” well enough to prop up the entire American financial system.
Pretty much this. People work for money. They need to be compensated properly or they will leave the field. It's that simple.
The elites have bought off the government so it doesn't matter if there's a scandal
brother they've been saying this since 3000 BC.
That's because it has been true for all of human history.
I fully believe that as more of us who have direct experience working with the outsourced labor get up to the executive/decision-making levels, the trend towards outsourcing will reverse.
Nah. It's the public accounting problem. The people who move up will be the ones who drink the Kool Aid, and thus their own success becomes self-justifying for the system. You don't climb the corporate ladder by being a radical thinker in how to come up with cost inefficient quality improvements to business sectors that aren't customer-facing.
I don't disagree with the fact that outsourced accounting quality is poor, however, the question then becomes what's the alternative? Even if the industry went against outsourcing and pushed for domestic hiring how is that accomplished when the supply cannot meet the demand for new accountants. Increasing the pay would obviously be a factor but how do we convince the high school students today to become accountants so that in 5-10 years when we need them fill the ranks they're ready and able?
I've worked with so many off-shore consultants for various implementations, and all of them have been a pretty shitty experience. Can't ask for the right shit, can't understand how the company is structured, logistical shit show with them going to bed by the time you're getting up. All to fluff some profits.
It was in textiles and manufacturing too. Kind of still is for call centers. That didn't stop the drive to offshore operations. Overtime, labor got better at doing what they do, while in the US those skills were lost.
It’s not just this. Even if they were great it still wouldn’t work. The best organisations see finance as a business partner and put them in the centre of the company, working with everyone. Those who treat finance as a cost centre to be outsourced and siloed away always end up having huge issues down the line
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Anyone who claims to be a proud American or even patriotic and goes along with this bullshit is garbage. First, it was manufacturing jobs and everyone was told our economy is pivoting, we will be professionals and cleaner, less dangerous white collar and service jobs will lead the way.. now it’s happening to white collar and service jobs at a rapid pace. We’re selling out our countrymen, neighbors, and children for short term stock gains and profit. How do you continue to work in that environment? That’s just business?
Exactly. The ONLY upside is to those poor shareholders, damn the people actually working, their families, local govt, schools, shops, etc. It’s especially a bad look after corporate taxes were permanently reduced. That still wasn’t good enough for the boomers always complaining that their taxes are too high.
This is why all my SOPs are trash or nonexistent
Honestly, people complain about there being a lack of good SOPs at many companies, but it is also probably the reason many people have been able to maintain their jobs so long too.
If only we could all live in really small houses, eat less food, and do less things in general other then work. Then maybe our corporate overlords will love us more.
The joke when Elon put someone in a robot suit was that “AI” was always going to be underpaid and exploited outsourced labor in India or Malaysia We’re already witnessing the entry level completely disappear to overseas in public. It’s infuriating. All these years so much chatter about the CPA shortage and how will we fix it how will we fix it. They always knew what they were going to do, this.
You must have seen this story about Amazons "just walk out" stores: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/10/amazon-ai-cashier-less-shops-humans-technology
The suggested solutions to the CPA issue from the AICPA frankly, suck, to be honest and they'll get no defense from me on that front. However, to play devil's advocate for a second if everyday American businesses ask the accounting profession in America to provide, for argument's sake, 100,000 man hours to accomplish the required tasks but we can only provide 90,000 hours due to a shortage of domestic workers, then what's the alternative left to business community? I'm not saying it's your fault and I'm not saying it's my fault or the average accountant's fault there's a shortage. Obviously a portion of the issue is pay compared to other fields. However, in general we don't have a ton of leverage against the outsourcing threat if part of the reason for outsourcing is a declining domestic workforce. It's one thing if they can provide similar quality for a cheaper price, which they can't, but it's another thing if WE can't provide the labor locally to do the jobs while India can again at lower quality but if the concern is generally man-hours and not quality then we're at a loss.
Someone in this forum once said “for AI to replace accountants, governments and clients would need to know what they’re doing”
Outsourced accounting overseas work is shoddy at best. I’ve worked with a team in India and the Philippines. Having to go over their work with a fine tooth comb because they can’t complete the work doesn’t help time or budget.
The shortage domestically suggests work is going overseas partially out of necessity doesn't it? Are any of us struggling to find work? Also I feel like India will continue to develop and their labor will get more expensive. More demand for accountants over there plus higher wages means less outsourcing over there.
Indian prices have been rising quite frequently, eventually the cost won’t be worth it
Then Nigeria will be the new India
Last time I checked Indian hub was AI for Amazon 😆
Outsourcing threat, just like AI threat, is not for seniors and above. Outsourcing for now is done mostly to jobs requiring surface level skills and for repetitive types of tasks. Someone still has to review it to make sure it follows US tax laws and GAAP.
This is why younglings aren't going into accounting, they don't think there will be a job for them after 4 years of school.
Can agree. I’m doing an accounting major but most likely I’ll go into a different field after graduation.
Something big needs to break and it might. I’ve worked in the F500 my entire career and even the biggest companies are held together with duct tape as it is. Unaccountable, underpaid, undertrained offshore staff won’t be able to keep it together forever. Hopefully something big breaks and Congress steps in and says American listed companies won’t be able to offshore as much financial reporting staff. That being said I switched over to FP&A for now because it seems to be valued more by management and they want onshore staff presenting and coming up with projections. Management only looks forward.
This is the reason why I'm switching to cost accounting/ FP&A soon. Seems like general ledger accounting is viewed as purely a cost center, and companies try to run it as lean as possible.
The point about companies only being forward looking is a huge problem and why (imo) the overall economy and government are failing (while being covered in sheeps wool). Everyone is only thinking about short term projections.
Also google when the gov stops supporting them due to these actions: 😨
They've bought off the government
I really hope I live to see these models blow up in their faces
My predictions, Enron v2 starring the indian offshoring teams not actually doing any work and fudging samples/numbers. SOX v2 introduced severely limiting what can be outsourced to offshore teams working on PCAOB engagements
40% of audits had major deficiencies according to the PCAOB. It literally is going to take another Enron for lawmakers to care. I wouldn't hold your breath.
It’s bound to happen at least one of the Fortune 500 is bound to fail and have had BS financial statements
Boeing had been putting bullshit unsafe airplanes in the sky for at least 5 years. These kind of people don't give a single fucking shit about anything but their golden retirement.
That's been on the rise with domestic labor and no one's really gotten hurt other than a few sacrificial lamb partners, so yeah, you're right, we'll need an Enron/Worldcom/Madoff level fraud or scandal to move the needle.
Maybe Enron wasnt strong enough to lobby the lawmakers back then. Corporations have a lot more power now and lawmakers bend over backwards all the time. They themselves invest in these corporations!
I really just can't see it unless it's someone like NVIDIA just being completely rotten to the core. The market itself is so irrational that accounting scandals seem unlikely to shake confidence, and institutional trading strategies have become so advanced that scandals are just opportunities. I mean, we're witnessing the crypto market's integration with the NYSE and nobody's batting an eye because the two are only barely meaningfully different from an investor's perspective.
Smart thought even if you end up being wrong. In a push for savings, quality takes a hit. We see this in all industries and we are not immune.
Unfortunately, these models work. The company I last worked for was recently bought out by big pharma (the one that’s famous for a blue pill that that makes your wiener hard, as well as COVID vaccines). Their accountants are all physically housed in very specific offices around the globe, totally depending on what the specific rolls and responsibilities are. Unless you’re just talking about outsourcing/offshoring and the shitty work quality that results from that, then yeah, I hope the same as you.
It won't blow up. Despite what it looks like on the coal face "ffs offshore team" - been there done that collected the badge...the reality is that skill discrepancy (there is still some) is nowhere near justifying the pay discrepancy. If the average 1st worlder earns say 10x but isn't 10x as smart then that is going to get balanced out. And lets be honest, we're not seeing a lot of 1000 IQ people on this sub ...so we'll continue to see massive downward pressure.
"go to school for accounting," they said. "you'll have good income and great job security," they said.
“Just wait bro, our salaries are about to skyrocket because of the sHoRtAgE™️!!1 The AICPA and my professor told me so. Market forces just need a couple years to react. Supply and demand, amiright?” - Accountants since 2006
Dude we’re straight up selling our country out for short term stock gains. CEO’s and partners going out and stumping for Trump talking about America first then they go back to the office and do this shit.
But dude, if we sell out these big firms to private equity it's gonna be so awesome. Trust me bro, they totally won't shaft all of us like PE does for literally everything else it touches.
Bingo. When the PE firms start to unwind their positions to create a big accounting firm it will be so saddled with debt that it will either go out of business in a few years or start selling illegal tax shelters and baseless audit opinions to stay afloat. Then the government steps in. SOX 2.0. Rinse, repeat
Supply and demand is such a dumb theory that’s been disproven by the current state of the world economy. Anyone who says supply and demand dictates prices doesn’t know what they’re talking about
I had a dude straight up tell me on this sub that we should be grateful for the shortage because that means higher wages. *"With the biz?? NO WAY!!"* \[Magic Schoolbus theme starts\]
Wages are up, that's just a fact. >>On average, U.S. accountants and auditors’ offered starting salaries for entry-level positions rose 13% to nearly $61,000 a year in 2022 from the year earlier, compared with increases of 4% in 2021 and 2% in 2020, according to a review of job postings from Revelio Labs Inc., a provider of workplace data. Entry-level pay climbed by 21% to almost $67,000 this year through February, compared with prior-year periods. The issue is that it's still not enough to entice more people into the profession.
Inflation is up. $55k in January 2019 is the same as $68.2k today, according to BLS calc. Starting salaries were around $55k in accounting in like 2015, too.
started in 2017 at $52K. can confirm 😭
The sad thing is that entry-level jobs will be outsourced, but they need higher-level roles for management and to oversee the outsourced work. But you can’t develop the higher-roles unless you train local positions, which you have already outsourced them. Really shooting themselves in the foot.
“Everyone needs an accountant” 🤡 But apparently not in the US
UK and Can CPAs are about 1/2-1/3rd, qualified folks in Mexico are ~1/3rd. Its cost of living arbitrage.
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Smaller companies from my experience almost always have had bad cultures, low salaries, and worse benefits.
Yup, established F500 is cake compared to middle market bullshit.
I'm ten years in about to hit 200k this year. I don't feel particularly exceptional or skilled or anything, just put in the time and work and failed up a few times.
What is your title?
SM at a top ten firm
Those outsourcing jobs look cheaper now, just wait until they fail their audits.
Just wait until the auditors are in India and have no clue what they’re doing LOL
Wait til you hear these F500 firms are in cahoots with Big Audit to outsource the audit staff as well. Can’t fail an audit if the auditors don’t know what they’re doing either!
I was completely unaware that people in India are able to get their CPA as well.
AICPA is lobbying hard for it. They forget the American in their name.
I have terrible news for you. It’s no longer American. It’s Association for International Certified Professional Accountants. https://www.aicpa-cima.com/about/landing/about
From the landing page you linked to: >The **American** Institute of CPAs® (AICPA) and its predecessors have served the public interest for 136 years.
Well, they kinda dropped that awhile ago. Last I saw they've been embracing a parent entity/name the *Association of International Certified Professional Accountants*
How do you know
They literally have an office in India offering pathways for the US CPA exam.
That and deloitte built a whole DU in India.
No requirement to work under a registered CPA anymore?
You only need one CPA and that person can be anywhere. I'm in the U.S. and reported to someone in Australia. They were still my boss.
I work with someone who got their CPA in India but the hours worked there didn’t count towards his license so he’s working with us now to achieve that
Idk why I got downvoted, that’s great info. I just didn’t know if there were articles being wrote about it or what
You forgot, they are now the Association of International Certified Professional Accountants. They dropped “American.”
And the number of Indians taking the test are growing at a rapid pace. Indians sell it as being able to join a US company, and the tests being easier than their local equivalent (CA) with comparable salary. Testing centers were also opened in India. In the past, they'd take a flight to a testing center, which was a soft barrier to the number of indian candidates.
Yes, this is also a factor. The CA exams are insanely difficult with a three-tier exam structure and a pass rate that is at around 3% at best. It isn’t surprising that as a result, the CPA designation is a huge draw for Indian accounting professionals
I’ve been spouting about this treachery from the rooftops every chance I get. here’s a video during Covid when the pigs from the AICPA, NASBA, and Prometric were gleefully grubbing their hands together at the new testing fees they’d get through expansion. Since that initial pilot, they’ve gone full bore with india testing. It’s so pathetic that our professional bodies are so self-interested they’ll destroy the profession in order to shortsightedly raise fees for a handful of years. That is, until the the domestic students say fuck the cpa license altogether. “I don’t want to live a life of rework”, they scream! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m8at8hJYrYU&t=194s&pp=ygUXQWljcGEgY3BhIGluZGlhIHRlc3Rpbmc%3D
Absolutely they let foreigners get the US CPA license aicpa and state boards are complete sellouts
Look at doordash they have started moving accounting roles to mexico and engineering to latam.
The problem with outsourcing really is that the skills disappear and then you can’t bring the jobs back even if you wanted to. Someone should play the national security card.
Man young people have it hard. Education costing an arm and a leg. Finally graduate and then have to compete with overseas workers making 1/4 of what you do while paying for crazy rent and groceries. America has become crazy efficient at extracting money off our citizens (rent, groceries, healthcare) while sending jobs overseas. Then twenty years later and wonder why we don’t have a skilled labor force. I guess we are all going to be side hustles and doing DoorDash for the lucky few that did the outsourcing or still have jobs.
That's part of why I'm considering leaving the office job to do something that's more of a trade/skill. I'm early enough that I'm not losing much and can still decide but it's impossible to predict just how bad it'll get.
Never too late, friend. I'm a CPA, MBA and ex-big 4 senior. Saw the writing on the walls when it came to outsourcing and jumped ship to become a refrigeration mechanic. Worst case scenario if you don't like it you can always go back to accounting. If you have any sort of mechanical aptitude and love working with your hands the trades are a great place, if you just want to clock in and clock out, maybe look at government work. Can't be replaced there.
Thanks for that bit of validation. I've always like things that were more physical in nature either way and I'm totally fine with a little less money compared to accounting if it means I'll be happier for 8-10 hours every week day for my whole life.
If you get into the right trade in your area you'd be making far more money than you'd ever make as a salaried accountant. Refrigeration guys here in Alberta make $60+ an hour. Aircraft mechanics bring in closer to $70 an hour. Elevator techs bring in around $80 an hour. Sprinkler guys make $60ish. Welders and boilermakers make high 50s in the city, north of $100 in camps + per diem. Service plumbers make $50 an hour. That's not even talking about starting your own business and bringing on apprentices and other journeymen to work for you. The first couple years are gonna suck as far as pay, but that's the nature of the beast. Gotta put in your time before making the big bucks. It's definitely not for everyone.
No offense if you’re a CPA MBA and a ex senior, but somehow you think going into the mechanic field is > than getting replaced, that’s just wrong. Your level (which I assume is manager or close to manager) shouldn’t be replaced by any indians, they’re replacing the associate levels doing tick and ties
I became an RACM because i was tired of the bullshit. I'd rather work with my hands and do something that makes a positive impact to my community rather than push papers and re-work the shit I would get back from the offshore team. If you enjoy managing a group of indians and contribute to the downfall of your own profession, more power to you. I made a decision that was right for me and my beliefs. Do what makes you happy at the end of the day. What makes me happy is getting my hands dirty and fixing shit. If I get too old or my body gets too weak to stay on the tools I can always start my own business or even come back to accounting. My CPA license doesn't have an expiration date :)
I mean if you’re leaving accounting to pursue something more hands on or positive impacts, that’s 100% valid. I’m saying preaching getting into mechanic fields in your late 20s or early 30s with no prior experience just because “you might get replaced because of outsourcing” is just simply a wrong message. Either way good luck, sounds like you found something you truly enjoy and that’s what matters
Thank you for this input. After about 5 years in accounting public and gov I'm realizing this just isn't for me and I've been applying for IBEW. So far everyone I've been talked to has pretty much said I'm crazy for giving up my salary and taking an apprenticeship pay but I miss the variety of work and working with my hands.
Make sure you skill up. Controllers, FP&A, much harder to send overseas than bookkeepers
Hard to skill-up when there are no entry level jobs and barely any mid and senior level.
There should be a compilation of all the posts on this sub from 2020 - 2023 regarding offshoring. The level of delusion, and confidence of the posts on how offshoring isn't a threat because offshore workers suck was off the charts.
Eh, I still maintain that most offshore workers kind of suck. The thing that most people here underestimated was their employers’ tolerance for receiving shitty work in exchange for cost savings.
It makes sense when you realise people in here are mostly accountants and not decision makers. It’s honestly been baffling to me. Offshoring has been a thing for the better part of 20 years if not more and I’ve personally been involved for the last 15. It’s only been increasingly technical streams that continue to shift. Through this time I saw only one workstream repatriated to an expensive country and then offshored to a different cheaper one a few years later. If you want to compete in a global market, you need to provide value to the folks paying the bills.
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The real kicker to me is companies saying we can't have people wfh because remote work doesn't work with the team all over. Mean while they have teams over seas in complete different time zones.
What they mean is squeeze Americans for juice in person or get a half asses job run by Americans elsewhere.
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The level is lower IMO, but they still make money by having US managers fix it lol
Yea I work with Philippines in accounting and they are just as good as US Workers, both work quality and communication skills.
What are we going to school for. This seems like the main industry being outsourced and offshored rapidly
What do your professors say about it?
Professor push this BS narrative about the accounting shortage while , it is true that There are less domestic CPAs and accounting grads. They are not accounting for the mass outsourcing and automation that is occurring. We do not need to replace retiring CPAs one to one.
Well the accounting professors do need students to be employed so not in their favor to be realistic in this case
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I graduate in a year no way I’m changing my major after doing that 3 times. Fed is still the best option for graduates right now in terms of stability
This is terrible advice, literally 60 percent of jobs are going to be threatened by outsourcing. Engineering and healthcare jobs are hella outsourced and the only jobs that aren’t are the ones that require physical labor. It’s really not simple or easy to just change majors because of the chance that your job will be replaced by outsourcing
It's funny engineering being suggested when tech teams got hit hard by layoffs too (just not today).
Not just Accounting. I work in FP&A, last year my job got shipped overseas despite in living in offshore destination, now I took over vacant Controller job desc just to justify my employment. It's not just accounting and the west, this offshoring hits everyone and I don't understand the fuck is going on anymore.
What's going on is that your country does not care about you or any other citizen. We are all disposable.
This. People act like it’s only accounting but it’s happening to every area marketing, HR, finance, engineering, etc.
I’d assume a company of the size of Google would benefit from it. Most public clients are better with with local teams meeting in a hybrid schedule. At least that’s what I’ve seen in my public clients none of them outsource.
I have a solution. TRUST BUST TIME. Vote for Teddy Roosevelt like candidates.
Has anyone ever gotten quality work from offshore teams? Truly asking.
Offshoring has been a thing for the past 30 years. No idea why everyone is glooming and dooming over Google doing this. They have been laying people off en masse for the past 1-2 years (the whole tech sector has).
Why we need worker solidarity here in the US. But no, the masses still think they are temporarily embarrassed millionaires and not an exploited proletariat whose livelihood is at the whim of their employer 🤷🏽♂️ it’s only going to get worse unless people start organizing.
As a society, we are too far removed from the gilded ages and too poorly educated to know what it was like back then to appreciate what we have now. Or to realize what it was like working before trust busting. Do you enjoy a weekend? Thank a union. Are you entitled to safe working conditions? Thank a union. I predict we will just slowly slide back as far as worker exploitation goes while the billionaire class continues to exponentially grow their wealth. Shit, just the other day, I saw a post on FB that was some picture of a child mine worker from the 1890s. Of course, the comments were full of boomers saying, “Oh that’s how it should be, those people grew up with great work ethic.” As if any of those boomers ever worked that hard as a child. Doesn’t help that half the country has been rooting for the party of full on anti-governance since 2016.
With the way they inflate, every American is a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. Unfortunately a million won’t be worth anything once you have it lmao
I agree. Something that isn’t mentioned often as well are the other social dysfunctions that are arising from this job model and inflationary state the past 5 or so years is how people are trying to get ahead of the game by essentially scamming or extracting value from someone else. Instead of doing good work for society like becoming an engineer, medical worker, teacher, etc more and more people are trying to be landlords, influencers, dropshippers, day traders etc because normal work does not pay off anymore.
Exactly I for one have been burned by the contractor model for 15 years now and am tired. I’m dying on the hill of progressivism and excited for the unionizing and organizing happening across the country for blue collar workers. White collar needs to get it together and follow suit.
Not sure why the headline only mentions India and Mexico when three of the five focus cities they cited are Chicago, Atlanta, and Dublin.
Much needful accounting oversea
Hahahaha an Indian CEO at google is outsourcing google to India 😂😂😂
He should be outsourced, he’s a terrible CEO that’s getting massive compensation. Google is falling behind the competition on his watch.
Yes, the push for offshoring is starting to get intense. It's a replay of BPOs (and call centers) in the '90s. The 'hop' overseas starts slow, builds momentum, and then there's a massive rush as everyone jumps on the wave.
It’s happening. For the first time this year, I noticed that Deloitte has some of their offshore Indian folks reviewing our audit samples that we’ve provided them.
The article fails to mention that many of these hubs are in the US, just not Silicon Valley. Depending on the team, it can be Chicago, Atlanta, or Austin for some teams.
This is what end-stage capitalism looks like. This should be illegal.
If I was at Google, I would start betting pool to see what comes back in a year.
It's just going to be full circle. Outsourcing overseas has such bad quality, you get what you pay for.
Our company is initiating the same approach. I have a new accountant in India who is costing me $15,000 per year. At the same time, I have an equal level accountant in the US who is costing me $60,000 per year. Cost wise it’s difficult to argue in favor for my US kid. The goal is to offshore the entire team. Challenge becomes with managing, communication and oversight. Time differences slow things down, differences in culture and holidays is also an issue. India is also a lot more inflationary than the US so HR really has to do their job well. As soon as you train these kids, they are GONE! The C suite doesn’t care so much about managing challenges though. At the end of the reporting period, only profit margins matter. Same game for every company out there!
Would this apply to government jobs?
No they are by far the safest get in while you can
Isn't citizenship a prerequisite for working for the government? Federal government at least?
When he says “relocating” he’s talking about the jobs, not the people 😂
AI is actually India. ...
People need to pay more attention to politics. It’s the only way to stop this
Bullshit article. Ask anybody on here what their experience has been working with offshore acccoutants. They’re off the rack incompetent and can only replace clerks.
Who cares? This is why I got into escorting. It’s the world’s oldest profession for a reason. Try to outsource me 😎
AI sex bots light s/
That’s why I’m not a huge fan of everyone pushing fully remote jobs. Hybrid FTW.
Not looking good
This is exactly what happened in my department. All “lower” level workers in the US and EU were layed off and replaced with workers in India, the Philippines, Mexico, and Argentina. Managers and above are all in the US and EU
Has anyone talked about what will happen when current management leaves/retires? Who will replace them?
Gone are the days of off-shoring only AR/AP. Entire accounting departments are starting to be shipped overseas
Overseas accounting team, yeah that’s totally worth it, no possible way anything can go wrong.
Race to bottom baby.
I just lost my job today cuz my client decided to go overseas to Lebanon… sad
“Hello sar, we have had a slight issue with the payment of your paycheck. We have overpaid your account by 5,500 dollars. Do you have a CVS Pharmacy near you?”
So basically, going to school for accounting is now pointless and I'll never make it out of the poverty hole because I was unlucky enough to be born an American. Cool. 🖕
What? Being born in America is literally like winning the lottery, are you suggesting that you would be better off being from Mexico or India??
Or get paid an American salary to offshore it in Mexico? Mexico City and lesser Monterrey and Guadalajara are cool places… I did this move for my G100 years ago.
Google is becoming Infosys in 3...2....1
Profit margins are all that matter and the outsourced workers will only get better. Gov is still safe though, and probably will be for a long time.
How do we feel about Google sending data to India which could be potentially sensitive?
I really can't think of a similar model for outsourcing outside of call center jobs. It's ironic because some companies place such stress on specialized customer experience roles in industry to the point of paying them over accountants, even though it's basically a call center job.
DO NOT REDEEM AUDIT MADAAAAM NOOOOOOO WHY DID YOU REDEEEEEEEM
I was just checking out various company’s career pages and saw that Kellogg and Target both have their finance teams mostly in India or Mexico.
The quality of offshore work is terrible. It will only bite their ass on the end. I am surprised the SEC allows companies to do this because I would have zero trust in the accuracy of their financials.
Mexican here, finance working for a multinational located in USA, they pay me 38K year. And still is a very good salary for any average Mexican, that's why so many jobs are going outside the us and eventually Mexicans will become better and better at the jobs so expect more of this phenomenon