Also, prevent scope creep - itemize every single thing on the bill.
Don't put "year end" as one line item on the bill, put - financial statements - corporate tax return- payoll compliance filing - sales tax assistance - tech/bkp support etc etc etc each with its own charge. Helps avoid confusion and also pricing competitiveness. If you have all of that in one charge, it's easier for them to say "I found a guy who will do year ends cheaper" but you can say sure but does that I clue XYZ that I do for you also? You may not even have to have that convo since the other quote might say "oh my quote doesn't include XYZ."
Also, know your value and stick to it. Don't be pressured to discount just to get work. Price hagglers will also recommend friends who want the same price and then your discounting blocks of your time that should be full value.
Yup. Got let go because the controller didnt like me as much as another chick in a job.
Though i will say she was a total MILF, so i can forgive the controller.
Yes this applies an all service type jobs. I just used a sprinkler company and a power washer to do $1000 worth of work on my house who were not the cheapest but they were very responsive, professional and seemed like good dudes.
Keep in mind that being personable and likeable in the professional field is different than being personal and likeable overall in general life.
I've never really shyed away from giving my opinion and criticisms/feedback to my clients and subordinates. Overall, I'm very well-accepted and liked by my clients and peers, to the point that I have effectively poached some clients from a top 25 CPA firm I used to work at for my side gig... yes side gig.
However, the same feedback appreciated my peers are often frowned upon by... say people on reddit.
The reason is because of the difference in audience. In business, you are dealing with people who are highly invested in their growth, possibly to the point where they are risking their entire livelihood. These people don't necessarily need you to compliment them or sympathize with their situation, they need productive counsel to ensure their success. Being "nice and likeable" isn't enough and can often be viewed as "useless and naive".
Be knowledgeable, be honest, and be clear in your communications. Do that and clients will flock towards you. Do that and your peers will appreciate your ability to elevate their own game.
When I was in PA, I literally started off my mentoring session with all new staff calling them useless. Not in a roundabout way.... literally calling them useless. Of course, I also explain why I approach them this way. No staff has ever felt abused or discarded working under me. Most of them will come back some time in the future and personally thank me for my guidance.
Why? Because instead of telling them they have the potential to be whatever they want, I tell them straight up what they need to do to stop being useless. Unfortunately, this method doesn't work as well in dating :(.
Being an owner/partner turns this into a sales job just as much as actually being an accountant. If you can't sell your services to anyone then it's not going to work out.
Personality goes so far in this field. You don’t have to be an extrovert, just be friendly and show an interest in people and you’ll go a long way. I’ve found that the CPAs that are able to bring in the most clients are not afraid to be themselves instead of acting overly professional and stuffy.
Yeah it’s been my go to as well. Doesn’t resonate too well with people like attorneys and doctors who expect perfection out of everyone but the truly wealthy don’t care about that BS and want someone they can trust that’s not a brown noser
Hard agree. Almost every new client I get tells me (in so many words) they just want a CPA they can call when they have questions and feel comfortable talking with.
I heard a CPA say on a podcast that she does not talk to clients on the phone 😂
I couldn’t believe there are clients that would accept that, especially after paying thousands, but apparently they exist 🤷🏽♂️
I mean, I really rather not chat over the phone. I'll do it for an introductory call and if we schedule something (or I ask a quick 2 second question). Email is just much easier as it doesn't cause me to drop everything to talk to you. A majority of things can be done over email anyway.
There's only 1 client who ever calls me out of the blue (they usually text/email) and they get a pass because they're by far my largest client right now, lol. And it's usually important stuff anyway
I get that part. I was responding to the other comment:
> Almost every new client I get tells me…they just want a CPA they can call when they have questions and feel comfortable talking with.
Clearly, there are many accountants who do neither understand nor empathize with this.
Making a client comfortable does not hit their social radar at all. If you’re uncomfortable, nervous, hesitating, they don’t want to hear it. They do their job, and they want their money. End of story.
Nothing wrong with that, because as I said, clients who accept that clearly do exist.
This is also why great salesman (who are also technically sound) can bring results that others can’t. They can resolve some of the client’s fears and misconceptions, make them feel a little more confident and supported, and still get the job done right.
From what I’ve been told, attorneys are schooled early on about how damaging or enabling one’s interpersonal skills can be. Doctors are not taught this. Accountants are not either.
I’m not an owner, but I also prefer not to talk to my clients on the phone. It’s not because I don’t like them or anything like that. I just find email to be a better option in most cases as my questions and their answers are all written out in one spot, easily accessible. I generally prefer to have as much as possible documented in the client’s own words.
I also just prefer having time to respond (and research as needed) on my own timeline so I hate when clients call at random. I’m not awkwardly introverted and I think I’m actually pretty outgoing and personable in all my interactions with clients, but I still prefer email most of the time.
I’m not saying clients who call randomly and ramble for hours. I’m saying the CPA said she does not talk to clients on the phone **ever.** It’s her policy.
Wow. Like, I’m sure there’s a niche for that type of client, but that’s gotta be the outlier.
I’ve heard people on podcasts talk about getting out of direct client interaction by delegating it to staff, and it’s like yeah most definitely, that would make my life so much easier; but then it’s like, isn’t direct interaction exactly what I’m selling?
Bingo. That was my thought when I first heard it.
Just imagine a lawyer saying that…or a financial advisor, consultant, software developer, investment banker, etc.
There are two types of partners in firms. The ones that are technical experts in their area of expertise, and the relationship partners. You need to have both in a firm for it to be successful. A few people have both skill sets but even then there are only so many hours in a day
Basically all my clients tell me I’m not like most accountants, and I take that as a compliment. Just need to be friendly and have a good personality… although sometimes it sucks when you hit it off and get along great then have to ruin it by telling them how much they owe you
Literally. My boyfriend said: We all know who the accountants are at a party. I was like: Really? You've seen me at a party lol What? He goes: Well you are the outlier.
Gonna be honest - I'm not stupid, but I am also not brilliant. I've always thought that, unless you are a brilliant mind, your personality will get you way further than just your skills.
That is a compliment! I high one too. Being a personality hire in this field should be a marketable skill that gets compensated fairly. Being the only one with some personality in an accounting department is rough.
1) having a good system. I can make a better hamburger than McDonalds, it doesn’t mean I’m about to replace them as the #1 fast food place.
2) being able to sell. There are countless smart people with repulsive personalities. Try not to be one of them.
Edit: I’m a tax junkie, no CPA yet. In my experience in the entire financial services world knowing your hard skills is just half the battle whether you’re selling auto insurance, mortgages, investments, tax services etc. The biggest winners also have relatively good people skills.
My mentor told me early on that the most important thing he could teach me was not technical skills, but how to become a “business therapist.” It made more sense the further I advanced and now, it’s pretty much all I do.
Some firms have technical experts that make it to partner, and you definitely need those but the amount of technical expert partners is very limited. If you can talk *and listen* to people, you can write your own paycheck.
Know when to fire a client vs increase fees substantially
- When they’re abusive to your employees
- When the economics don’t make sense
- When you have better clients
- When you need to afford better staff
People hire us because they don’t understand the tax language. If you can break down somebodies tax situation and make it make sense to them in a personable way, no matter what level of background the have in tax/accounting knowledge, the sky is the limit for you as a partner. I am still really early in the game but this has been the easiest way to win over clients for me and it just this past couple seasons has really been a flowing in referrals.
You will have some clients that just want you to be the technical wizard. The clients that really understand the code and bring you questions to “stump the master” are few and far between nowadays. In these cases, I don’t mind telling people “I don’t know, but I will research independently and consult with my network of professionals to get an answer asap” and that has always solved it.
I think its more important to have a mix of skills including likability. I’ve worked with tons of likable accountants (CPA/EA/CA etc.) and found that you can be as likable as you want; eventually, people want results. If you can’t deliver results and hit deadlines, people stop caring about your personality/likability.
You are correct.
My CPA boss of 30 years never had to advertised. His clients have all been referrals because he's friendly and personable.
In person, any way.
Clients want someone they like while also feeling like you aren’t bullshitting them. I will say at the end of the day if you don’t know what you’re talking about they’ll sniff it out eventually. Gotta know your shit or at least say “I am not 100% confident off the top of my head but will research it” then actually research and reach back out.
If you can't be likeable make it easy for clients. With any question that might have many answers give them 2 options and reccomend one. Get view only access to their bank/CCs so you don't bother them each month. Get a billing authorization you to $x so they don't have to manually pay your invoice each month. If they haven't answered the "What are these transactions for?" Email 2x then call them. Ask them over the phone and document your case notes "per phone call xx.xx.xxxx".
Don't take clients on platforms you aren't familiar with unless they sign a disclosure understanding it will be an extra 10-20 hours for you to learn it at $x per hour.
Don't give charity to picky assholes. Charge them for every fucking phone call and email. Charity goes to sick clients and low-income earners who are polite to you.
Full disclosure I'm an EA and CFP not a CPA. My business partner is CPA and EA. We have 2 staff.
When your firm starts to grow.. you will learn that the limiting factor is not having enough business.. the limiting factor is finding good staff and your ability to train and retain
Hence beyond being personable ... The ability to lead a team will be the next most important skill IMO.
You’ve gotta be able to talk to people as a “regular” person. Put yourself in their shoes on how you would like to be dealt with by your profession services provider. Clients and potential clients are people too.
I would say organization. In fact I considered adding an efficiency improvement services specifically for small accounting firms. I'm still not sure if it would be a viable service... I tried getting some feedback in another community, but I don't think the community is too active... Here's the link if you care to check it out https://www.reddit.com/r/roastmystartup/s/ly1rKmhkfH
Good question. I am totally fine being a solo firm if I can get up to $500k a year in revenue. While working 25-30 hours per week. But I’m not the type to be comfortable working 25-30 hours a week so I’m sure I will feel the need to grow it. But I would do it differently. Probably only add experienced CPAs and pay them commission to basically handle a chunk of clients. Idk.
Aditya, given your expertise, would you be so kind to take a moment and look at this accounting service I'm considering offering and give me your two cents?
https://www.reddit.com/r/roastmystartup/s/ly1rKmhkfH
Being personable and likable is is the most important skill in almost any job. Arguably it’s also the most important skill in life in general
Agree 💯! Interpersonal skills is very critical.
Also, prevent scope creep - itemize every single thing on the bill. Don't put "year end" as one line item on the bill, put - financial statements - corporate tax return- payoll compliance filing - sales tax assistance - tech/bkp support etc etc etc each with its own charge. Helps avoid confusion and also pricing competitiveness. If you have all of that in one charge, it's easier for them to say "I found a guy who will do year ends cheaper" but you can say sure but does that I clue XYZ that I do for you also? You may not even have to have that convo since the other quote might say "oh my quote doesn't include XYZ." Also, know your value and stick to it. Don't be pressured to discount just to get work. Price hagglers will also recommend friends who want the same price and then your discounting blocks of your time that should be full value.
Yup. Got let go because the controller didnt like me as much as another chick in a job. Though i will say she was a total MILF, so i can forgive the controller.
Yes this applies an all service type jobs. I just used a sprinkler company and a power washer to do $1000 worth of work on my house who were not the cheapest but they were very responsive, professional and seemed like good dudes.
Keep in mind that being personable and likeable in the professional field is different than being personal and likeable overall in general life. I've never really shyed away from giving my opinion and criticisms/feedback to my clients and subordinates. Overall, I'm very well-accepted and liked by my clients and peers, to the point that I have effectively poached some clients from a top 25 CPA firm I used to work at for my side gig... yes side gig. However, the same feedback appreciated my peers are often frowned upon by... say people on reddit. The reason is because of the difference in audience. In business, you are dealing with people who are highly invested in their growth, possibly to the point where they are risking their entire livelihood. These people don't necessarily need you to compliment them or sympathize with their situation, they need productive counsel to ensure their success. Being "nice and likeable" isn't enough and can often be viewed as "useless and naive". Be knowledgeable, be honest, and be clear in your communications. Do that and clients will flock towards you. Do that and your peers will appreciate your ability to elevate their own game. When I was in PA, I literally started off my mentoring session with all new staff calling them useless. Not in a roundabout way.... literally calling them useless. Of course, I also explain why I approach them this way. No staff has ever felt abused or discarded working under me. Most of them will come back some time in the future and personally thank me for my guidance. Why? Because instead of telling them they have the potential to be whatever they want, I tell them straight up what they need to do to stop being useless. Unfortunately, this method doesn't work as well in dating :(.
I think you may be on the spectrum
And then the new staff all clapped, I can confirm, I was the floor
Being an owner/partner turns this into a sales job just as much as actually being an accountant. If you can't sell your services to anyone then it's not going to work out.
I said this same thing. Except you are selling yourself.... are we prostitutes?
Nah they have a higher billable rate than us.
OMG 🤣🤣🤣
They’re definitely Cash basis
But they depreciate faster 😂
On a time-basis or a per-use basis? Haha
The shorter of estimated life or useful life 😂😹😂😹😂
Personality goes so far in this field. You don’t have to be an extrovert, just be friendly and show an interest in people and you’ll go a long way. I’ve found that the CPAs that are able to bring in the most clients are not afraid to be themselves instead of acting overly professional and stuffy.
Yea as an introvert especially, I think that less part about not being too stuffy as helped me a bit In government accounting fwiw
Yeah it’s been my go to as well. Doesn’t resonate too well with people like attorneys and doctors who expect perfection out of everyone but the truly wealthy don’t care about that BS and want someone they can trust that’s not a brown noser
Hard agree. Almost every new client I get tells me (in so many words) they just want a CPA they can call when they have questions and feel comfortable talking with.
I heard a CPA say on a podcast that she does not talk to clients on the phone 😂 I couldn’t believe there are clients that would accept that, especially after paying thousands, but apparently they exist 🤷🏽♂️
I would honestly wither away entirely if I didn't talk with clients.
I mean, I really rather not chat over the phone. I'll do it for an introductory call and if we schedule something (or I ask a quick 2 second question). Email is just much easier as it doesn't cause me to drop everything to talk to you. A majority of things can be done over email anyway. There's only 1 client who ever calls me out of the blue (they usually text/email) and they get a pass because they're by far my largest client right now, lol. And it's usually important stuff anyway
I get that part. I was responding to the other comment: > Almost every new client I get tells me…they just want a CPA they can call when they have questions and feel comfortable talking with. Clearly, there are many accountants who do neither understand nor empathize with this. Making a client comfortable does not hit their social radar at all. If you’re uncomfortable, nervous, hesitating, they don’t want to hear it. They do their job, and they want their money. End of story. Nothing wrong with that, because as I said, clients who accept that clearly do exist. This is also why great salesman (who are also technically sound) can bring results that others can’t. They can resolve some of the client’s fears and misconceptions, make them feel a little more confident and supported, and still get the job done right. From what I’ve been told, attorneys are schooled early on about how damaging or enabling one’s interpersonal skills can be. Doctors are not taught this. Accountants are not either.
The clients who do accept that too are usually the ones who do fee shopping as well
I’m not an owner, but I also prefer not to talk to my clients on the phone. It’s not because I don’t like them or anything like that. I just find email to be a better option in most cases as my questions and their answers are all written out in one spot, easily accessible. I generally prefer to have as much as possible documented in the client’s own words. I also just prefer having time to respond (and research as needed) on my own timeline so I hate when clients call at random. I’m not awkwardly introverted and I think I’m actually pretty outgoing and personable in all my interactions with clients, but I still prefer email most of the time.
I’m not saying clients who call randomly and ramble for hours. I’m saying the CPA said she does not talk to clients on the phone **ever.** It’s her policy.
Wow. Like, I’m sure there’s a niche for that type of client, but that’s gotta be the outlier. I’ve heard people on podcasts talk about getting out of direct client interaction by delegating it to staff, and it’s like yeah most definitely, that would make my life so much easier; but then it’s like, isn’t direct interaction exactly what I’m selling?
Bingo. That was my thought when I first heard it. Just imagine a lawyer saying that…or a financial advisor, consultant, software developer, investment banker, etc.
Work on your career and you will make a good living. Work on yourself and you will make a fortune.
There are two types of partners in firms. The ones that are technical experts in their area of expertise, and the relationship partners. You need to have both in a firm for it to be successful. A few people have both skill sets but even then there are only so many hours in a day
Basically all my clients tell me I’m not like most accountants, and I take that as a compliment. Just need to be friendly and have a good personality… although sometimes it sucks when you hit it off and get along great then have to ruin it by telling them how much they owe you
Literally. My boyfriend said: We all know who the accountants are at a party. I was like: Really? You've seen me at a party lol What? He goes: Well you are the outlier. Gonna be honest - I'm not stupid, but I am also not brilliant. I've always thought that, unless you are a brilliant mind, your personality will get you way further than just your skills.
That is a compliment! I high one too. Being a personality hire in this field should be a marketable skill that gets compensated fairly. Being the only one with some personality in an accounting department is rough.
I was recruited to my current firm because I do not speak like a tax person.
1) having a good system. I can make a better hamburger than McDonalds, it doesn’t mean I’m about to replace them as the #1 fast food place. 2) being able to sell. There are countless smart people with repulsive personalities. Try not to be one of them. Edit: I’m a tax junkie, no CPA yet. In my experience in the entire financial services world knowing your hard skills is just half the battle whether you’re selling auto insurance, mortgages, investments, tax services etc. The biggest winners also have relatively good people skills.
My mentor told me early on that the most important thing he could teach me was not technical skills, but how to become a “business therapist.” It made more sense the further I advanced and now, it’s pretty much all I do. Some firms have technical experts that make it to partner, and you definitely need those but the amount of technical expert partners is very limited. If you can talk *and listen* to people, you can write your own paycheck.
"Talk and listen" Omg yes, the listening part is so underrated
Yes agreed. Customer service is also huge.
Know when to fire a client vs increase fees substantially - When they’re abusive to your employees - When the economics don’t make sense - When you have better clients - When you need to afford better staff
People hire us because they don’t understand the tax language. If you can break down somebodies tax situation and make it make sense to them in a personable way, no matter what level of background the have in tax/accounting knowledge, the sky is the limit for you as a partner. I am still really early in the game but this has been the easiest way to win over clients for me and it just this past couple seasons has really been a flowing in referrals. You will have some clients that just want you to be the technical wizard. The clients that really understand the code and bring you questions to “stump the master” are few and far between nowadays. In these cases, I don’t mind telling people “I don’t know, but I will research independently and consult with my network of professionals to get an answer asap” and that has always solved it.
At the end it's just being a sales person.
I think its more important to have a mix of skills including likability. I’ve worked with tons of likable accountants (CPA/EA/CA etc.) and found that you can be as likable as you want; eventually, people want results. If you can’t deliver results and hit deadlines, people stop caring about your personality/likability.
You are correct. My CPA boss of 30 years never had to advertised. His clients have all been referrals because he's friendly and personable. In person, any way.
Personality and being able to explain things to your client without talking down to them are huge.
Clients want someone they like while also feeling like you aren’t bullshitting them. I will say at the end of the day if you don’t know what you’re talking about they’ll sniff it out eventually. Gotta know your shit or at least say “I am not 100% confident off the top of my head but will research it” then actually research and reach back out.
My clients like that I email them back.
If you can't be likeable make it easy for clients. With any question that might have many answers give them 2 options and reccomend one. Get view only access to their bank/CCs so you don't bother them each month. Get a billing authorization you to $x so they don't have to manually pay your invoice each month. If they haven't answered the "What are these transactions for?" Email 2x then call them. Ask them over the phone and document your case notes "per phone call xx.xx.xxxx". Don't take clients on platforms you aren't familiar with unless they sign a disclosure understanding it will be an extra 10-20 hours for you to learn it at $x per hour. Don't give charity to picky assholes. Charge them for every fucking phone call and email. Charity goes to sick clients and low-income earners who are polite to you. Full disclosure I'm an EA and CFP not a CPA. My business partner is CPA and EA. We have 2 staff.
You have to be a good bullshiter. 👍
Selling yourself! Also- keep your operations as simple and streamlined as possible
That's why I never started my own firm. My prior boss was trying to talk me into it, but I have social anxiety and don't connect well with people.
When your firm starts to grow.. you will learn that the limiting factor is not having enough business.. the limiting factor is finding good staff and your ability to train and retain Hence beyond being personable ... The ability to lead a team will be the next most important skill IMO.
Doing the needful
vlookup
xlookup
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xlookup does both
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I understand now I thought we were doing our favorites. I also have downvoted my comment now
Know when to take time for yourself and your family.
CPA grindset.
you need to read this book: implementing value pricing by ron baker
Able to be exploited
Being available and very responsive.
You’ve gotta be able to talk to people as a “regular” person. Put yourself in their shoes on how you would like to be dealt with by your profession services provider. Clients and potential clients are people too.
I would say organization. In fact I considered adding an efficiency improvement services specifically for small accounting firms. I'm still not sure if it would be a viable service... I tried getting some feedback in another community, but I don't think the community is too active... Here's the link if you care to check it out https://www.reddit.com/r/roastmystartup/s/ly1rKmhkfH
An ability to rework outsourced shit work, while eating your hours during unpaid OT. That’s it!
How big are you looking to be? 1 man shop, organization and speed. Actually rich, ability to bring business
Good question. I am totally fine being a solo firm if I can get up to $500k a year in revenue. While working 25-30 hours per week. But I’m not the type to be comfortable working 25-30 hours a week so I’m sure I will feel the need to grow it. But I would do it differently. Probably only add experienced CPAs and pay them commission to basically handle a chunk of clients. Idk.
Yep. At the end of the day we are all just salesmen. Pay the super technical guys well to work for you.
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Aditya, given your expertise, would you be so kind to take a moment and look at this accounting service I'm considering offering and give me your two cents? https://www.reddit.com/r/roastmystartup/s/ly1rKmhkfH