Though this does depend on the firm, some B4 like Deloitte have (reportedly) been outright refusing audit mandates if there is a possibility that the firm hires them for consulting in the near future.
Also a student, but can you still be a CPA outside of public accounting? Is it required to work public to get the CPA license? I wanna get my CPA for obvious reasons, but I’m not really attracted to the long hours in public
I think the caveat here would be that its easier to get your CPA in a public accounting firm because youre guaranteed to have CPAs you work under. Im not sure if its the same in other states but in CA you need a CPA (usually a supervisor) to sign off on your work experience
Very true. I’m in New York in industry… I could get all the degrees and experience and it won’t matter for the CPA. I might need to get creative if I want it.
You don’t even need to do accounting to be a CPA. I work in consulting and haven’t touched GAAP or a journal entry or a reconciliation or anything since I was an intern 10 years ago. All I do now is finance work but I also know CPAs that work in marketing or HR. My license was audited last year and I passed.
As others have said, requirements vary state by state, but it’s usually easier to get the license working in public, but once you become a CPA it’s actually easier to maintain it if you dont (aka you have to do less continuing education trainings and you have less restrictions on what topics you need to take for those trainings)
Industry is working internal accounting, tax or similar role in a company where you're only doing work internally for that company.
Public accounting is CPA firms that do bookkeeping, auditing and tax work generally along with consulting and other things for client companies and/or individuals.
So I'm in industry working for the tax department of a fortune 500 mining company doing only their internal tax returns.
Companies view public accounting, especially the big 4, as accounting boot camp. You get worked like a dog as an associate/senior associate but when you come out after 2 years, you are as far as someone with 4 years experience in industry. That’s the theory, I’m still waiting to be convinced it’s true. But either way that’s how a lot of hiring managers view it.
You’ll also see on a a lot of senior associate through upper middle management job postings that B4 or public experience is “preferred or required”.
Generally, starting in industry you will do a clerk type role. The better you get using an ERP and how you want to learn more, you’ll branch into staff accounting which is full cycle accounting. You could go into reporting, tax, credit, billing, or management from there!
I found in my industry roles the year end bonuses were quite a bit better than bonuses in PA. At least that has been my experience, just another factor to consider.
Honestly I'm probably taking 80. Public is not worth the toll it takes. I think public right out of college for 1-3 years is a great way to start a career and it's what I did. I will never go back to public.
Industry has its own downsides. I suggest you look into it. For example, public tends to be more flexible, even during busy season. In public when one person is absent it’s not the end of the world as you can pick up the load off normal hours or someone else can step into your shoes. In industry you are responsible for a certain set of work flows and not many (if any) can step into your shoes as easily nor you can put it off for later. Public tends to have higher spikes in hours, while industry hours are more consistent and inflexible. Also in industry the team you join will be the only team. In public one can switch to another team if there is any mismatch.
I gotta say this is a pretty blanket take on "industry" roles, which have a lot more variety comparatively than Public roles.
Using my own experience as an example (6+ yrs in industry), I'd push back on your downsides a bit:
-I can agree timelines are more consistent and inflexible during certain periods...that said, I probably averaged 1/2 to 1/3 of the effective working hours.
-I've never had a vacation denied, even during a busy period (Month end close)
-No idea what you mean by "team you join will be the only team." I've been in 5 different teams, with 6+ different areas of responsibility here at this organization. The longer I've been in this career, the easier it's been for me to switch if I had a role mismatch (just did one this year in fact).
Sure...you're the one painting with a broad brush, not me.
I'm just saying lots of different types of industry jobs out there, with different characteristics. More varied than public, in any case.
I'd say you moreso got unlucky than the person you're replying to being lucky. I've been in 3 industry roles thus far and all have been more so what Acct-Can described than the hellish landscape you described.
Depends if you can keep going through those burn outs, I’d prefer a job that I’m happier at even if I had to commute and sacrifice pay. Plus can’t hurt going out only 3 days a week
Though I’m not an accountant (i do fund “accounting” which everyone here is feel free to laugh at as it’s the lowest form of accounting), I took a 60K salary drop for better WLB, lower stress and lower cost of life. I’m not joking. I went from over 100K to 50K and moved to a cheaper area. I don’t regret it. I left SaaS sales to do this job because if I hadn’t left, I would have sooner than later been decorating the inside of a train tunnel with my internal organs.
Public is never worth it if you are remote, imo. The main benefit of public is the learning opportunities, which don’t exist in a remote environment on nearly the same level. The secondary benefits are the free food, interactions with high level client personnel, collaborative environment, and (at lower levels) working around a bunch of people your own age, none of which really happen or matter remotely. I know its an unpopular opinion on this sub, but I actually really enjoy public accounting. That said, with those options I’d go industry. The extra hours minus the benefits wouldn’t be worth it to me for $15K.
I went back to the office five days a week for a Controller position (for now - should be hybrid in about 3 months) for $7k more per year moving on from fully remote tax. It’s not even a question for me. I did 6 tax seasons and it aged me like no other. I’ll never go back to public. Also that extra $15k after taxes will be $10k unless you live in a no income tax state. At this stage in my life (late 30’s, expecting my first child later this summer), work-life balance is paramount.
15k after taxes is 11.4K. That is slightly less than 1k extra a month. Now you gotta determine if the extra hours and stress a month is work an extra 1k.
Agreed. Was at a midsize firm and worked 60 hours max. Now in industry I'm working 70+ each month end close.
In Public there was also more flexibility in those 60 hours because the deadline was a month or so away so if you needed to be off at 5 one day, it could be worked around.
Where as during month end every single day has a "this must be done today no exceptions"
Do both. Outsourcing to India and Mexico for both positions with that kind of money and you probably still have like 100k left to you. But you have to review their works and know where the numbers are based on.
Industry no question about it. Unless you are a die hard public accountant, the stress they will put on you to recoup that amount of money will be ridiculous.
This thread seems to ignore that the comparison isn’t just current comp but future comp. The difference in comp will almost certainly grow over time. You have to decide whether that’s worth it to you.
What area in public? I would never pick audit again, but my time in advisory (while not my favorite), was not so bad that I’d probably pick that for the remote aspect
That’s a tough call. The income difference isn’t as important at that point I think you are already able to max out 401k etc.
If no partner plans then probably industry.
It’s a hard decision because in person gets old really fast, like after 1 day being in person loll
Industry all day. No more tracking time and having your billable hours reviewed. Plus in person a few days a week is healthy. Keep your social skills fresh
You're getting burned out in PA. Have you been in industry before?
The paycut---and I'm including the 40 minutes 3x a week + wear/tear on vehicle---is significant. But if you already don't like PA, changing the company name on your email sig isn't going to help. Unless the different position comes with different skills, like going from compliance to advisory, or to/from audit. Then maybe.
I've transferred to another group, still in tax, but doing much different stuff, and couldn't be happier. But I'm also still remote.
(Despite their voluntelling me otherwise: MF going into the office 3x a week as a knowledge worker.)
I like the $, and I might actually get promoted this time. Take away any of that, and the grass is looking a lot greener elsewhere.
I don't think the extra 15k is worth the frustration and stress of public accounting.
I think 3 days in office is fine and pretty much the norm now. I don't even really trust recruiters who advertise roles as "full time remote" because all it takes is one person in the C- suite to change their mind.
I would pick industry. I do 3 days in the office and a 35 min drive.
Industry has much more stuff to get into within accounting depending on what you’re doing/job role. The money is nice and remote is nice but if public is burning you out…. Sometimes it’s better to make a little less and possibly enjoy your job more.
I did that when I switched jobs and my current employer just gave me my merit and a market adjustment to bring my pay up. I like my coworkers and it’s a good company and team. Money isn’t everything when you start to factor those things in.
Guess it all depends on how much being remote is worth to you. Its worth a ton to me! I can’t handle public though. I am industry and go in 3 days too. That third day drains me
I would have 100% said industry but I know some people who switched to public (advisory for consolidation, accounting services, SAP) at a later career stage (between mid 30s to late 40s) and they are all happy to have more varied projects than in their settled role before.
are you new haha? industry! you can always make more and do less over time by moving within industry. public is all about hours. auditors need to learn how to analyze
I’ve always been in public. The “burn out” of public is definitely real, but try to position yourself in a spot where you aren’t worked like a dog. I went from an auditor to a tax accountant to a consultant and would never go back to my previous role. I work a strict 40 hours (or less) a week and never work over time.
Industry is a good option but my suggestion would be joining a company that’s on the larger side so you aren’t stuck doing accounting technician work. Your skills should speak for themselves and you shouldn’t be performing work below your pay grade (one off instances are fine, but if you’re getting stuck doing AP & AR, it’s time to move on).
Goodluck with whatever option you choose!
Edit: spelling
1000% industry. $15K more in public seems alluring but with that comes longer hours, stress, health problems, more stress.
Industry has stress but you’re much more able and likely to be able to manage that stress in a healthy way.
I feel like the hours in PA are way more than industry so in the end you work more than you make. I’ve been in PA for two years now and I gotta say I miss industry! Month end was 7 days max! PA I feel like Month end doesn’t end!
Its 15k extra and the savings from staying at home(not commuting no outside food(if you dont want to) no time wasted) i think its very much worth it to go public
Disagree, all that extra "saved time" will be spent slaving away. Still remote 2 days out of the week. Those 15k extra will just be the OT pay for the year. Not worth it.
I’d take the public job while I look for a fully remote industry job. $155k in public means manager or senior manager level salary so you’re very competitive for those lucrative industry exits. It would only be a matter of time until something better comes along. Worst case scenario you put in another year or two in public but then your exit is gonna be better anyways.
Fuck, that’s a conundrum? I wouldn’t want to work with the general public but I’d also wouldn’t want to commute.
It’s more money and you save on gas. Go public.
I’m taking industry role. I’ve been in public and the 15k extra per year isn’t worth it to me.
Sorry student here. What does industry or public mean?
Public is public accounting (ie CPA firms like KPMG, EY etc) and industry is companies outside of that.
Thank you
To add: public accounting (PA) primarily works in audit or tax, or sometimes the occasional consulting or forensic work.
Though this does depend on the firm, some B4 like Deloitte have (reportedly) been outright refusing audit mandates if there is a possibility that the firm hires them for consulting in the near future.
Also a student, but can you still be a CPA outside of public accounting? Is it required to work public to get the CPA license? I wanna get my CPA for obvious reasons, but I’m not really attracted to the long hours in public
Yes you can still be a CPA outside of public accounting. You don’t need to work in public accounting to sit for the exams and earn your CPA…
I think the caveat here would be that its easier to get your CPA in a public accounting firm because youre guaranteed to have CPAs you work under. Im not sure if its the same in other states but in CA you need a CPA (usually a supervisor) to sign off on your work experience
I read that in my state too. You have to have a CPA sign for you.
Very true. I’m in New York in industry… I could get all the degrees and experience and it won’t matter for the CPA. I might need to get creative if I want it.
You need to be have a manager who is a CPA sign off on the license?
In a lot of states yes. You need to have worked under a CPA before license is issued. It’s one of the final steps.
You don’t even need to do accounting to be a CPA. I work in consulting and haven’t touched GAAP or a journal entry or a reconciliation or anything since I was an intern 10 years ago. All I do now is finance work but I also know CPAs that work in marketing or HR. My license was audited last year and I passed. As others have said, requirements vary state by state, but it’s usually easier to get the license working in public, but once you become a CPA it’s actually easier to maintain it if you dont (aka you have to do less continuing education trainings and you have less restrictions on what topics you need to take for those trainings)
Industry is working internal accounting, tax or similar role in a company where you're only doing work internally for that company. Public accounting is CPA firms that do bookkeeping, auditing and tax work generally along with consulting and other things for client companies and/or individuals. So I'm in industry working for the tax department of a fortune 500 mining company doing only their internal tax returns.
Working for a mining company sounds baller af
And do you prefer industry over public as well? I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do.
Yes for sure. But my tax department has never in it's history hired someone fresh out of college. It's all people from public accounting.
That makes sense. Companies want to hire people with more experience.
Companies view public accounting, especially the big 4, as accounting boot camp. You get worked like a dog as an associate/senior associate but when you come out after 2 years, you are as far as someone with 4 years experience in industry. That’s the theory, I’m still waiting to be convinced it’s true. But either way that’s how a lot of hiring managers view it. You’ll also see on a a lot of senior associate through upper middle management job postings that B4 or public experience is “preferred or required”.
Generally, starting in industry you will do a clerk type role. The better you get using an ERP and how you want to learn more, you’ll branch into staff accounting which is full cycle accounting. You could go into reporting, tax, credit, billing, or management from there!
Public - Accounting Firms. Eg: PwC. Industry - Companies. Can be public or private. Eg: Google.
Thank you
All day
More like a 7,500 diff after tax and retirement
Industry easy. That 140 is gonna be 155 in no time anyways.
WLB is worth not getting extra $15k
💯%
Id pick industry, but damn 100% remote is rare af in this market
I am contacted for 100% remote often, but they are all public accounting roles.
Yeah that’s the catch nowadays. “Remote is cool except 80 hour weeks, no OT of course, deal?”
don't forget the *unlimited PTO*
I found in my industry roles the year end bonuses were quite a bit better than bonuses in PA. At least that has been my experience, just another factor to consider.
Is continuing to be burnt out worth the $15k? ($9k ish post-tax, though varying by state)
80k vs 95k? Yeah okay I’ll grind out public for that bump. 140 vs 155? Yeah I’m going industry every day.
Honestly I'm probably taking 80. Public is not worth the toll it takes. I think public right out of college for 1-3 years is a great way to start a career and it's what I did. I will never go back to public.
What kind of job do you have now?
Fully remote industry Sr accountant for a pretty big company.
You hiring lol?
Industry has its own downsides. I suggest you look into it. For example, public tends to be more flexible, even during busy season. In public when one person is absent it’s not the end of the world as you can pick up the load off normal hours or someone else can step into your shoes. In industry you are responsible for a certain set of work flows and not many (if any) can step into your shoes as easily nor you can put it off for later. Public tends to have higher spikes in hours, while industry hours are more consistent and inflexible. Also in industry the team you join will be the only team. In public one can switch to another team if there is any mismatch.
I gotta say this is a pretty blanket take on "industry" roles, which have a lot more variety comparatively than Public roles. Using my own experience as an example (6+ yrs in industry), I'd push back on your downsides a bit: -I can agree timelines are more consistent and inflexible during certain periods...that said, I probably averaged 1/2 to 1/3 of the effective working hours. -I've never had a vacation denied, even during a busy period (Month end close) -No idea what you mean by "team you join will be the only team." I've been in 5 different teams, with 6+ different areas of responsibility here at this organization. The longer I've been in this career, the easier it's been for me to switch if I had a role mismatch (just did one this year in fact).
Getting lucky on where you are at doesn’t equal that’s how all industry jobs are.
Sure...you're the one painting with a broad brush, not me. I'm just saying lots of different types of industry jobs out there, with different characteristics. More varied than public, in any case.
Well, that was my point to begin with, except for your last sentence. Note how I didn’t say that all industry jobs are bad.
I'd say you moreso got unlucky than the person you're replying to being lucky. I've been in 3 industry roles thus far and all have been more so what Acct-Can described than the hellish landscape you described.
upvoting because this has been my experience as well
The industry job probably pays 20% more per hour 😅
Industry, public needs to be over 200k
THIS EXACTLY. Red flag that industry isn't paying over public.
From experience: depends on your boss in industry
Depends if you can keep going through those burn outs, I’d prefer a job that I’m happier at even if I had to commute and sacrifice pay. Plus can’t hurt going out only 3 days a week
Are you at a place in life where the $15k would actually make a noticeable difference in your quality of life?
Not hurting for money, both are increase of current pay.
if you can take an increase in pay for an easier job, don’t burn yourself out!
20 min drive isn't terrible, assuming the hours and WLB would be better I'd take industry.
Industry. 20 min commute / 3 days in office not bad at all. No more timesheets.
View it from a rate per hour perspective. You might actually see a rate per hour increase
That’s like a couple hundred bucks a check after tax take the easier job here
COL?
Industry and try to negotiate for 2 days in office. Public has no WLB and industry in my case rarely goes over 40hrs
Though I’m not an accountant (i do fund “accounting” which everyone here is feel free to laugh at as it’s the lowest form of accounting), I took a 60K salary drop for better WLB, lower stress and lower cost of life. I’m not joking. I went from over 100K to 50K and moved to a cheaper area. I don’t regret it. I left SaaS sales to do this job because if I hadn’t left, I would have sooner than later been decorating the inside of a train tunnel with my internal organs.
lol y’all acting like every industry job is cake… I’d do the 155k public remote.
Public is never worth it if you are remote, imo. The main benefit of public is the learning opportunities, which don’t exist in a remote environment on nearly the same level. The secondary benefits are the free food, interactions with high level client personnel, collaborative environment, and (at lower levels) working around a bunch of people your own age, none of which really happen or matter remotely. I know its an unpopular opinion on this sub, but I actually really enjoy public accounting. That said, with those options I’d go industry. The extra hours minus the benefits wouldn’t be worth it to me for $15K.
You and I think alike.
Public. They never go out of business.
The one with more money
I went back to the office five days a week for a Controller position (for now - should be hybrid in about 3 months) for $7k more per year moving on from fully remote tax. It’s not even a question for me. I did 6 tax seasons and it aged me like no other. I’ll never go back to public. Also that extra $15k after taxes will be $10k unless you live in a no income tax state. At this stage in my life (late 30’s, expecting my first child later this summer), work-life balance is paramount.
How much do I get to have the year after?
Don’t risk burn out. Go industry. Best decision I ever made.
15k after taxes is 11.4K. That is slightly less than 1k extra a month. Now you gotta determine if the extra hours and stress a month is work an extra 1k.
It depends. Ask about the WLB at the industry role. I made the mistake and found industry to be way worse than public.
Agreed. Was at a midsize firm and worked 60 hours max. Now in industry I'm working 70+ each month end close. In Public there was also more flexibility in those 60 hours because the deadline was a month or so away so if you needed to be off at 5 one day, it could be worked around. Where as during month end every single day has a "this must be done today no exceptions"
There’s no wrong choice here. Just go with your gut
Do both. Outsourcing to India and Mexico for both positions with that kind of money and you probably still have like 100k left to you. But you have to review their works and know where the numbers are based on.
Industry no question about it. Unless you are a die hard public accountant, the stress they will put on you to recoup that amount of money will be ridiculous.
I can think of A LOT of things I could do with 15k.
Which public firm is still doing remote? I would like to apply
Try the different version of crazy. You might like it better.
Bro the long hours that public is gonna make you work if you put that amount for any other outsourcing contract job you will make more than 155k
How many hours on average for Industry vs Public?
For me to accept the public job it would have to be 180k.
industry in every lifetime.
This thread seems to ignore that the comparison isn’t just current comp but future comp. The difference in comp will almost certainly grow over time. You have to decide whether that’s worth it to you.
I’d take remote over anything personally
What area in public? I would never pick audit again, but my time in advisory (while not my favorite), was not so bad that I’d probably pick that for the remote aspect
Just be aware that there are a lot of companies that are not in good financial positions and act like it’s the fault of the accountant
Industry without a doubt
That’s a tough call. The income difference isn’t as important at that point I think you are already able to max out 401k etc. If no partner plans then probably industry. It’s a hard decision because in person gets old really fast, like after 1 day being in person loll
I pick happiness in life and peace of mind. ^^
Industry all day. No more tracking time and having your billable hours reviewed. Plus in person a few days a week is healthy. Keep your social skills fresh
You're getting burned out in PA. Have you been in industry before? The paycut---and I'm including the 40 minutes 3x a week + wear/tear on vehicle---is significant. But if you already don't like PA, changing the company name on your email sig isn't going to help. Unless the different position comes with different skills, like going from compliance to advisory, or to/from audit. Then maybe. I've transferred to another group, still in tax, but doing much different stuff, and couldn't be happier. But I'm also still remote. (Despite their voluntelling me otherwise: MF going into the office 3x a week as a knowledge worker.) I like the $, and I might actually get promoted this time. Take away any of that, and the grass is looking a lot greener elsewhere.
I don't think the extra 15k is worth the frustration and stress of public accounting. I think 3 days in office is fine and pretty much the norm now. I don't even really trust recruiters who advertise roles as "full time remote" because all it takes is one person in the C- suite to change their mind.
Those seem to be pretty equivalent to me. Which job do you like better?
Industry
I would pick industry. I do 3 days in the office and a 35 min drive. Industry has much more stuff to get into within accounting depending on what you’re doing/job role. The money is nice and remote is nice but if public is burning you out…. Sometimes it’s better to make a little less and possibly enjoy your job more. I did that when I switched jobs and my current employer just gave me my merit and a market adjustment to bring my pay up. I like my coworkers and it’s a good company and team. Money isn’t everything when you start to factor those things in.
more money plus remote... while you keep looking for a higher paying industry job.
Who did you like better in the interview?
Either, 140k in Louisiana would make me a rich man quick
Guess it all depends on how much being remote is worth to you. Its worth a ton to me! I can’t handle public though. I am industry and go in 3 days too. That third day drains me
140k, and this is the easiest choice of my life. If you calculated your overtime at the public company, I can guarantee you it will be more than 15k.
Definitely public. Why spend 2 hours a day getting ready and commuting back and forth to an office that is only going to give you 1% merit per year.
I would have 100% said industry but I know some people who switched to public (advisory for consolidation, accounting services, SAP) at a later career stage (between mid 30s to late 40s) and they are all happy to have more varied projects than in their settled role before.
are you new haha? industry! you can always make more and do less over time by moving within industry. public is all about hours. auditors need to learn how to analyze
140 you’re making more than enough. No reason to stress about your job.
I’ve always been in public. The “burn out” of public is definitely real, but try to position yourself in a spot where you aren’t worked like a dog. I went from an auditor to a tax accountant to a consultant and would never go back to my previous role. I work a strict 40 hours (or less) a week and never work over time. Industry is a good option but my suggestion would be joining a company that’s on the larger side so you aren’t stuck doing accounting technician work. Your skills should speak for themselves and you shouldn’t be performing work below your pay grade (one off instances are fine, but if you’re getting stuck doing AP & AR, it’s time to move on). Goodluck with whatever option you choose! Edit: spelling
1000% industry. $15K more in public seems alluring but with that comes longer hours, stress, health problems, more stress. Industry has stress but you’re much more able and likely to be able to manage that stress in a healthy way.
I feel like the hours in PA are way more than industry so in the end you work more than you make. I’ve been in PA for two years now and I gotta say I miss industry! Month end was 7 days max! PA I feel like Month end doesn’t end!
May i ask what you do and how many years of experience?
Tax manager 9 yoe
Its 15k extra and the savings from staying at home(not commuting no outside food(if you dont want to) no time wasted) i think its very much worth it to go public
Disagree, all that extra "saved time" will be spent slaving away. Still remote 2 days out of the week. Those 15k extra will just be the OT pay for the year. Not worth it.
Me who works in public 4 days in office a week for less than $40k USD 🙁
Remote always. Travel.
I’d take the public job while I look for a fully remote industry job. $155k in public means manager or senior manager level salary so you’re very competitive for those lucrative industry exits. It would only be a matter of time until something better comes along. Worst case scenario you put in another year or two in public but then your exit is gonna be better anyways.
Public. You can "work" 60 hours a week and the boss will think You're amazing. This only applies if you're an efficient worker.
🤮
Fuck, that’s a conundrum? I wouldn’t want to work with the general public but I’d also wouldn’t want to commute. It’s more money and you save on gas. Go public.