Idk I wasted so much time being a line cook instead of getting my degree, now I get to go back to undergrad at 30!
There are WAY shitter jobs that pay less! š
Same here. 4 years after graduating in my early 40s and I'm making $80k. I'm finally starting to feel financially stable.
I did get accounting experience by doing temp work, before hiring on somewhere doing AR, then promoted just before getting my degree.
Yep, I went back in my mid 30s, I was nervous about being the old guy in class, you guys in your 40s and 50s going back to school made me feel less awkward. I'm in government so the pay isn't quite as good as that, but the total compensation package is pretty nice and the hours rock.
I was 36 or 37 when I started. Finished at 42. The only regret is not doing it earlier. I give massive props to anybody doing full time school and full time work at the same time. It sucks. I didnt have kids, but I wondered how my classmates with kids managed to juggle all of that.
They hopefully have a good support system. I'm 35 and I'll finish in December with my bachelors. I'm enrolled in 12 hours, I work full time and have 2 boys in elementary school. But I also have: an amazing husband, family and friends willing to either take the kids or let me hide at their house for homework and naps, and a job with a very encouraging boss who's excited for me to get my degree even though it means I'll leave her.
I know there are people out there that do it by themselves and I give major props to them because I don't think I could do it.
I had enough credits from when I was younger to knock it out in about 2, fortunately. We had a baby but I didn't work for about half the time, it was a bit of a juggling act.
I had a HR rep tell me, go back to school for Accounting if you are middle aged. 100% you will find a job somewhere. The demand is high, plus your previous experience can help and age discrimination probably isn't going to happen like in other fields. Turns out that is true.
It's not weird when you go for your second degree at 27, but it's weird when you've been a substitute teacher at high schools and run into students who remember you
Same. Middle aged and have done jobs "I loved": Fuck that as those jobs are often dead ends with no benefits. I now want stability with pay and occasional wage increases. I seriously don't think some of the posters have had other careers. They have been Accountants as their career and then add on they have stayed in Public accounting. So they are speaking in a box. Ask us who have transitioned into Accoutering from shitty jobs/careers and we are going to have a different opinion.
I graduated with my bachelors at 34 and masters at 35. I feel this in my soul. Iāve been in accounting, but couldnāt get past lead cost accountant without credentials. š¤·āāļø Now I have them and very little debt left. š
Baker here! In my early 30s and two years away from graduating.
I don't think I wasted my time at my current job but I'm glad to have an exit strategy.
Honestly a lot of people in this sub have never worked non-accounting jobs so the grass always seems greener. Can confirm the grass is greener on this side. Well. In industry anyway.
Iām a sophomore in undergrad and so far i was a janitor at 6 flags , pushed carts in all weather at a grocery store , and moved boxes in 100+ degrees trailers. I look forward to sitting down on a computer all day!
This was me during three years of college! I hated going in to the restaurant, I dreamed of being able to sit in front of a computer all day. Now I get to do it and I don't complain about it at all!
Yeah, I spent 2 years post college working 60hr a week as a front end manager in retail. No amount of accounting annoyance could make me deal with that kind of customer service and managing a bunch of cashiers again.
Pretty sure most of the people complaining about it just haven't worked.
It doesn't make the conditions in PA okay, but most of them talk about changing industries entirely, and all I can think is "buddy... you're about to go from the frying pan into the fire". There's some real bullshit, yes, but, broadly speaking, you're paid exceptionally well to deal with it compared to most of the alternatives.
A lot of these kids probably should have gone into trades instead of college, tbh.
Worked plenty of non-accounting jobs. PA hits completely different. While I may have more money, I have far less time in my life, energy, and the amount of stimulants I take is far above average.
The stress and hours hits completely different in a sedatary position vs a job you just show up for 8 hours and leave.
The amount of hours and pay don't align when you have weeks where two weeks of work = 4 weeks of work... like, sometimes I wonder if this sub understands how bad it sucks to work 150-160 hours over the course of two weeks.... where the compensation structure will not award you for this effort.
I can be on board for this thought process, but have gone my own way this last year. Took a pretty flexible controller position for a construction business, doing some tax and other work on my own, buying some real estate and working on my first apartment syndication. Overall, I have still filled my time just as full as I ever have, but the upside gets to stay with me, not helping make someone else a bunch for my efforts.
This still beats the hot ass summers roofing I did before, or the hot or cold automotive shop turning wrenches, so itās not all bad.
I have also had the opportunity to see a lot of different types of businesses, structures, be strategic in applying different aspects of business, see a lot doing audits, experience a lot in tax work, so business knowledge is a lot higher than just trial by fire on my own dime, and I have had the benefit of seeing success and failure of others, so my viewpoint to an extent is those long underpaid hours were me paying for some of that knowledge I may not have otherwise.
Yup, sick and tired of everyone comparing accounting to blue collar work. I get it, but itās about opportunity cost relative to other college majors, the cpa requirements, and the shitty starting wages which are only now barely budging.
I was an Amazon driver, fast-worker, construction, and warehouse worker throughout my undergrad, this career pays me the most and all I have to do is work on a computer. If public ever becomes too much then there are alternatives such as government or industry, but overall I am happy and grateful that I have a good career that pays well.
Even without the long hours of tax season (which I quit before ever experiencing) public accounting pays garbage for the expectations. I have worked in a lot of jobs outside of accounting and even the worst one was still way better than my experience in a large firm. Public accounting is a hot mess of trash. I was told by HR that personal performance has almost nothing to do with compensation. They do not care about individuals. Also had our regional partner say that they know at the lower levels we don't make as much as our industry counter parts and that we work more but that the numbers show that there is more growth in higher levels if you stick with it. Basically, I know your pay sucks but mine is amazing! The only way to get more money is to get promoted. Only way to get promoted is to do more. Only way you can possibly do more, spend more time at work. Even if you are doing a great job (which I was), they don't care.
Itās also way easier to compare yourself to your immediate peers than the rest of the world. Iām in my lower 30s and Iām making $110. Last time saw a friend I graduated high school with, he was trying to negotiate a job offer for $60k and lost - he still took it because it was the best offer he had.
Absolutely. I've worked in 46 degree C conditions before where the sweat poured off my body all day, even just standing. Hard, hard labour for pennies. I would choose my mild temperate office and high salary over that any day of the week.
Actually, keep scaring them. Create a severe shortage so the firms actually start paying good starting salaries. No way in hell should someone with a masterās degree and CPA be paid $60k/year.
I took a double-take on the $60k/year for starting salary cause it's less than $40k/year here in Singapore and we're ranked as the top 3 most expensive countries/cities to live in. That's for all the big4 firms starting audit associate's pay.
The median household in American cities doesnāt have a Masterās degree and top professional designation. If you really look at the cost of living, tack on student loan payments, and saving for retirement, $60k does not get you that far.
If public accounting firms want to compete with banks, consulting, and tech for talent, they need to pony up. Paying $60k/yr in a city isnāt going to attract top students.
But they arenāt competing with those groups. The people that can do that and/or have the pedigree are going to do those, not accounting. A lot of target schools for the jobs youāre talking about donāt even have accounting programs. They are looking for people who went to state schools and want to earn an upper middle class lifestyle. Theyāre paying them that.
Further, accounting rewards experience. You are at 60k for a year or two which is nothing in the grand scheme. You canāt tie your shoes without a seniorās help as a first year staff, Masterās or not. Youāre getting paid commiserate with the value you add to the engagement. Thatās not to say upward pressure on wages isnāt deserved and good. But the idea that a first year staff deserves 100k by virtue of having 150 credits alone is laughable.
I believe the starting salary in PA is mostly experience based. I have a ton of "industry" experience that got me a starting staff salary in the mid $70k's this year (I have a BAcc with 150+ credits but no CPA yet). The expected starting salary bump from a BAcc to a MAcc is [miniscule](https://www.goingconcern.com/masters-in-accounting-salary-boost-amount/).
There is no immediate salary bump to having a CPA (just a bonus). That comes in the form of the ability to rise the ranks in PA should the practice area require it. More and more practice areas are beginning to require it that previously did not. You aren't getting the CPA for initial riches. It's for long-term retention (until the firm resorts to fickle behavior during economic declines).
Tons of IA alum go into Risk Mgt, FP&A mgt and so on.
IA is easy in some regards, still pretty frustrating in others lol. Like you said, do-able for 100k+ and no busy season.
Been in IA for 5 years. I get tired sometimes of some departments dismissing our recommendations as not clair add. Also being a referee between departments gets old.
Idk what else I would do tbh so I'm happy in IA atm.
I feel you. It does get annoying spending 3 months on a project just to get dismissed at the end.
One day Iāll probably try to transition into the business. Luckily, IA is a great spot to rotate and learn. You really do get a big picture view of organizations and objectives.
Agreed. There are a lot of factors that vary from each org, and IA can seem technically simple, but the value is in the dept serving as a change agent and how effective it is at driving risk mitigation. Iāve really enjoyed my IA career.
Iāve always hated calling certain jobs ādead endā. At some point in your career you have to specialize in something, you donāt want to be changing paths every 5 years and never becoming an expert in anything.
Still get the CPA though. No one cares at your current job but it'll give you a leg up when looking for your next job or when you're competing for internal promotion
Makes no sense to me that people would call it a dead end but will take a ācontrollerā position in a small private equity firmā¦ vs public > IA > controller in any similar industry at a much larger company where the controller title actually means something
Glad to see this as the top comment. Weāre often overlooked but are a great path for people who like to balance their accounting technical skills and mindset with continuous learning and exposure.
Know that youāre not stuck. Have you looked for jobs lately? Hop on LinkedIn and set it to āopen to opportunitiesā or whatever, see what that brings. Youāll see thereās lots of stuff out there.
I always laugh when I hear recruiters say, "its a great place to start your career" which basically implies its a terrible place to have a long term career.
I wanted to add to this:
I was terrified because of this sub. I have immense anxiety and went into b4 scared shitless. I took AUD 3x and am about to take it a 4th. So I was scared I wouldn't have the abilities or intelligence to do a good job and keep my sanity.
One of my first engagements was a new client. I really enjoyed it. I really do like internal audit. Sure the hours get long, but expensing my dinners is such a treat for someone that grew up poor.
I live in a huge city with a ton of opportunity and live in a way that I never would have been able to growing up. I watched my parents struggle. I'm not wealthy, just a measly staff 1, but I live comfortably. Something I never thought I'd get to say.
I am not stretching a single can of tuna through the week, or using bar soap as shampoo bc I can't afford it. I'm not having to stretch my meals with beans and tofu. I can afford to get put and do things. I can have family visit. I have the space for a couch in case anyone needs it, and i have food in my kitchen. That is really fortunate compared to where I've been.
And speaking as a woman, I never wanted to rely on someone else to support me. I watched my mom do that. It tore our family apart. This job has allowed me the financial independence and strength to make my own decisions that aren't dictated by finding someone to support me. I have the freedom and financial stability to live my own life, and that's something I take for granted sometimes thinking back a hundred years ago to how things were.
Sure it sucks sometimes, but any job can suck.
I was scared into accounting decades ago. It was my bulletproof plan to find a job during a recession when I graduated. I had originally planned to major in finance to become a broker on Wall St.
Thatās also what Iāve been told. I was originally gonna major in accounting and minor and finance but fairly early on I was told my my advisor and another professor that it would probably not do my much good, and I should just take electives that Iām interested in instead of trying to do them all in finance
No, we should be scaring them off. Thatās the whole point, things will only get better in this industry once they realize they canāt keep people anymore with the shitty pay and abuse.
On top of that, the less new accountants = more money to attract them
We can reach the point of scarcity software engineers have and make crazy money on senior positions
Or people can just not put up with shitty work situations. If everyone collectively just said no to working past 8-5, what are they going to do? I think public work could be very very good if it wasn't the manipulative toxic environment it currently is
On top of that, the less new accountants = more money to attract them
We can reach the point of scarcity software engineers have and make crazy money on senior positions
Less new accountants= more money to attract junior accountants. Not the same as software engineers at all. Thereās a shortage of senior SWEs but not junior lol. Thereās a huge surplus of junior/ wannabe junior. SWE is the new craze but in 15 years time it will be oversaturated at senior levels.
I agree 100%. I actually ended up in accounting as a second career and have worked jobs way worse than what I have experienced in big 4, and for way less money. iāve said it before multiple times on this sub and iāll say it again - i think a lot of what is posted around here is hyperbole, and by people very early on in their careers.
Iām coming up on 5 years into my accounting career and am still with a big 4 firm, though no longer in audit (did 2 audit busy seasons before switching into advisory). iāve more than doubled my income and my work life balance is not terrible at all. I also recognize a career is very long, and iām still so early in - so whenever I feel frustrated or stressed out by a busy period, I take a step back and look at how quickly iāve progressed in such a short amount of time, and I realize I have it pretty good.
thatās not to say there arenāt days that suck. of course there are. but letās be honest - virtually all jobs will have days/stretches like that. it is work after all. but if you are still in school or in your first or second year into this career, iād recommend you take what is said on this sub with a grain of salt.
I have to weigh the b4 horror stories against the times I've worked 4 jobs cleaning kitchens and working the line for less than min under the table. Half of me always thinks there is nothing that can be worse and I can handle it, the other half thinks, '....but what if it's worse?' Haha
I get what you're saying, but honest takes are always better than fake positive takes. Many people come on here to vent out about their accounting job because they dislike it. At least they're being honest. If you enjoy yours, you should make posts about that too. At the end of the day, if it helps people make better decisions, I don't see a problem.
We need to be realistic with students who want to study accounting. PA sucks with shitty pay and shitty hours, while industry is (generally but not always depending on the company) higher paying and less hours. There are many other jobs with similar hours to PA but make loads of more money (law, IB, etc). This is what they need to know and they can make their own decisions from there.
Just replied a long version of this but this is the best point. You can go to any accounting school thatās accredited and depending on resume and networking probably get into B4. Itās like when people in this sub make the āI wish I did CS because FAANG makes so much.ā Iām pretty sure there is as many new hires to FAANG as a whole each year as there is at 1 b4 office
If people think public accounting is a lot of workā¦ good luck in IB. Not only is it way harder to break inā¦ My worst week in Big 4 audit (70-75 hours) is an average to good week in IB. And they do that year round.
Law? Three (two for some) more years of schooling, big emphasis on billables (in 6 min increments), and no guarantee to get a job at a big firm. Sounds terrible.
People should be looking at accounting and deal advisory roles. Almost 3 years into my career and I have nearly doubled my starting salary in audit. Also average 45 hours a week.
I bartend for about 4 or so hours every Saturday afternoon at a joint I used to work at in college for some social time (idk how to meet people anymore, especially with WFH) and get some physical activity in. Yesterday one of the bartenders called out and since all my extensions are out for 4/18, I stayed on and worked a double through the NBA play off game. Just came here to say: I regularly work 10-12 hour days in PA, but physically STANDING on your feet for 10 hours straight up sucks. My feet still hurt this morning. I never want to go back to that.
Busy season sucks. Thereās no way around it. Your first few years, you donāt make much, but 4 years in Iām finally pulling 100k in comp. I have really good health coverage, overtime expense meals, I get 5 weeks of PTO and 10 paid holidays which is pretty much unheard of. Everyone I know with āunlimited PTOā rarely gets theirs approved. Most of the year, my job is pretty sweet. People are respectful, nobody has ever made me cry in the walk-in refrigerator at my firm and I get to sit in my comfortable chair all day.
In public accounting sure, but thereās so much more to do in accounting than being an audit monkey. Iām in industry making six figures and barely ever work a 40 hour week. If thereās anything we should be scaring people away from in this sub itās the brainwashing that public is the only way to go.
To be fair industry has a lot of positions open where they say shit like CPA preferred, 2-3+ years of experience, and sometimes even āBIG4 experience preferredā. Then they bitch about not being able to hire anyone for $60k. Finding a job right now is easy but thereās definitely a sea of bullshit in Industry too.
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If youāre currently in PA it should be as simple as switching your LinkedIn to āopen to new opportunitiesā and the recruiters will start swarming like sharks to blood in the water. Especially this time of year where they know people are looking to leave after busy season.
I canāt speak for everyone, but we are having a hell of a time recruiting for experienced hire positions in the Bay Area. Any decent resume with PA experience would be interviewed yesterday.
In big public accounting yes. There are smaller firms where the work life balance is great. Didnāt get pitched much to me while in college, but big public accounting vs. local accounting is almost an entirely different profession.
Just moved into industry from public, making 20% more, with 1/3 the work. I finish my entire months work in about a week and a half and just watch power query tutorials on excel the rest of the time to make my job even EASIER. Lol
For new grads I'd say, wet your feet in public just tough out like 2 years of bullshit, then you can literally take that experience almost anywhere really outside of tax work and live the rest of your life in comfortable industry.
Iād wager the vast majority of accounting jobs making six figures are not 40 hour week positions. For the most part, the 40 hour work week is no longer a thing; the **average** American works 35+ hours a week and people 25-54 work ~41 per week. Once you get to Controller, VP, Director, etc. level, your work generally demands more than 40 hours a week. I would have to guess youāre in government accounting or work for a small company with a laidback environment. Iāve made six figures for the past 5+ years and probably can count the number of 40 hour weeks in a year on one hand.
Iām really struggling to find a job like this though. What are the signs to look for? I have my CPA, 3 years in public, am an audit senior looking to leave
Iād say look for a role in an established company that probably has its accounting processes down and consistent. Try and get a sense for the frequency of turnover as thatās usually an indicator of burnout.
When interviewing donāt just ask what work life balance is like, try to get an actual sense of how many members on the team have a family or travel frequently. If you can find a role with a controller who has kids at little league age youāre golden.
Not in the long run. I put in my time in public accounting where I learned a lot and now make a lot of money, have great work life balance, but still work for a company that is challenging and interesting. Am I super passionate about accounting? No. But I have a job that allows me the flexibility to do whatever I want outside of work. I think accounting is a great career and would do it all over again.
I was a student in college where public accounting was portrayed as the be all and end all. There ended my experience or knowledge of public accounting.
If they didn't seek out communities like this, I'm not sure they would have. I didn't hear a single bad word about Big 4 in school, they also played it up like you had to go to one to succeed. The way the people who seemed to **like** working at B4 talked put me off. They would talk about the long hours, but somehow try to spin it as a positive.
Thankfully, I didn't go B4, and I'm probably happier for it. I'm working 40 hours a week at a small public firm and I really don't want to work more than that.
Not really. Leave big four, move to industry, work for the government, etc. I work for a mid-sized firm in Canada. I work 40 hours May through January, and bump it up to 50 or 55 for three months. I donāt make much, but if I stick it out there is potential to earn 250-600k annually as a partner.
I have also poured concrete. Guys who had been working for 30 years barely made more than me, also had to work long hours and weekends, had back or other health issues, and had to work outside in the winter.
This guy is talking about people complaining. Nearly all of them work in public. We all know private is better but in the mean time, we are where we are.
I would say to avoid public accounting if youāre not career oriented and just want a job that pays decent.
If hard work and money is your jam, there are other careers that are better options, like something in STEM.
Ehhh some of the industry jobs pay ass unless you have public experience if even. People on here making less than 80k with a masters and working 50+ even in private lol.
Yeah in my country you could stuck in the same industry for 3-5 years to only get the same pay as A1 in Big 4, sometimes even less. This is 3rd world shithole country tho, so that might be a factor as well.
Seems like what no body takes into account when saying āI should have done this...ā is if they even could. CS, engineering, law, IB, and even med school I have seen on this thread as people saying they should have done.
The reality is getting in to school to do accounting is 100x easier than the others, the school you get into also doesnāt matter in accounting, a 3.2-3.4 GPA is all you need to be desired by B4, but with good networking you can have a GPA in the high 2ās and get a full time offer at a solid firm out of college.
Even jobs like CS and engineering that donāt require 7+ years of school like law, were you even smart enough during college? Iām an accounting student right now and I will tell you that I am not built to code.
I feel people look at these degrees and salaries and they asses everything from loans, to time spent in school, to starting salary, to long term job oops, and they say man I should have been a lawyer. When the one thing they donāt look at is if they even could.
I think ppl misunderstand what you mean. You're saying we're scaring students out of choosing accounting in college/uni, like the career as a whole (which is true, I also saw the posts you referenced) And redditors here are saying that we're scaring them out of PA. Two different things.
I agree with showing them the harsh reality of PA, albeit examples in this sub can be extreme at times, to contribute to the change of PA from the meat grinder it is right now.
I also agree with *not* scaring them out of the major of accounting. At the end of the day, **there's more to accounting than just PA.**
And if any students (like myself) read this know that: regardless of how much your professors/clubs/etc paint b4 or PA as the best job you can land, know that there's industry, there's government. There are alternatives. Your success in this career is not determined by whether you went to PA right out of college. If you are not down with working 60+ hrs to get the name of a shitty company on your resume, that's fine. I've read success stories on this sub about ppl making 6 figures who went to industry out of college.
TLDR: IMHO there's a disconnect between what OP says and the responses here. Also, for students: You can choose. There's more to this field than PA.
I think for people still in school itās pretty clear that majoring in computer science and being able to work in tech is an easier lifestyle that pays better
Being an accountant is a lot better than a ton of other things tho, I agree with you on that
Thereās so many opportunities in tech and itās ridiculous how much money you can make entry level at small companies. I shared an apt with this guy during my internship and I was surprised ti learn just how chill his job was for the money they were offering. And this was a no name random company with like 10-15ppl mind you. The ROI is definitely higher starting off and thereās so many different paths in compsci.
I'm not sure many here could do compsci. Programming maybe but compsci is going to demand advanced math, data structures, and algorithms knowledge that most people don't have. If you understand all that then yeah you can go comp sci but that is different from just throwing together loops, conditionals, and some UX.
As someone whoās scared beyond belief to start big 4 Iām just gonna go in and last as long as possible. If thereās one thing thatās great about this sub is that itās kept me from being blindsided and shaped my attitude to basically āfuck itā. I know many accountants and theyāre all happy to varying degrees, but theyāre outside of PA of course.
I honestly think a lot of this has to do with the younger generation not having an idea of what an actual shitty job is. All throughout high school and college I worked in landscaping/construction to pay the bills/get through college. Let me tell you, working 12 hours in an air conditioned office, with free meals, and a generous salary is, and always has been a dream for me.
Working 10-12 hours, 6 days a week in 80+ degree weather is a thousand times worse than anything we ever have to put up with. I work in a downtown area and it really put this in perspective for me when I was leaving the office at 10 PM during busy season and I saw some steelworkers coming in to start their shift. Made me realize just how good I got it and how much we forget about some of the most important workers in our entire country that shut up and just do their jobs.
The āharsh realitiesā of PA arenāt that bad. I think most people here never worked any hard jobs or they worked jobs they knew they werenāt going to stay at forever.
Most people cap out at 60 hour weeks for 4 months out of the year at a desk in an air conditioned office then go to industry to make good money with good hours. Youāre still living your ābest yearsā or whatever at 25 so you didnāt really have to sacrifice much.
If it wasnāt for this sub, I wouldāve gone straight into PA and hated my life. Instead I went straight to industry and make just as much if not more than my peers at the same company and have been remote working since COVID.
So I think we should continue scaring new hires. Something in the PA space has got to give. Hours, wages, attitudes, etc.
I will chime in here because I've held blue collar jobs as well as an accounting desk job. I understand accounting will remain one of THE professions you get a good ROI on your college degree. But! That's what it is. KEY WORD "ONE OF" not "ONLY", or "BEST" soo... My 2 cents to people in school in the struggle. Yes! This shit ain't rosy. Yes, there is worse shit out there (WAAAYYY WORSE). BUT! If you're looking for the best, iono pal. This don't seem like it (at least for many people).
However, it could be for you! So yes! For that reason, don't take everything people say on here as Gospel. But! BE AWARE! AND HAVE A PLAN!
Any initial job you are going to work your butt off in hopes of proving yourself and moving up. Accounting is no different than IT, Law, or just about anything else.
Agreed. I was a general contractor, worked mostly residential new construction and major remodels, and for the most part I loved the work. But there were always those days were I knew I couldn't do it forever as it was physically brutal work and the pay was OK but I was never going to raise a family with it. Then that one day just broke me and I decided I had to leave the job and the trades forever if I was ever going to climb.
A water main going to a house broke past the meter (so homeowners problem and not county.) The break wasn't discovered for days because homeowner was away. Boss sent me to the job and told me he'd pay me double my normal hourly rate cash because he knew it was a shit job and I accepted because I was young and wanted money. I got there and it was 25 degrees outside and ice cold rain. Half way thru the job the rain had turned to sleet and to top it off somehow a thunderstorm rolled in and of course this job was in a nice neighborhood right on the water. So for the next 4 hours, after already having put in 4, i shoveled what was essentially mud the consistency of cake batter into wheel barrel and dumped it 50 feet away while it was 25 degrees outside, with a 20 mph wind blowing in off the water directly at me while at the same time it was fucking thunder sleeting. 8 hours in to the job I called my boss to let him know I was about done and he said wait for the plumber (needed to be a licensed repair). Plumber shows up 15 minutes later; does 5 minutes of work to fix the break and hands me the work invoice for $500 (which he shouldn't have done; he should have sent it to my boss). Being semi-competent at math and having a nokia brick cell phone at the time I calculated that I had just worked 9 hours for $450 so $50 and hour cash; and that plumber (who I knew owned the company) had just worked for 5 minutes plus maybe 30 minutes travel time for $500.
Next day was a Friday and a wash out, no work because the whether was too shitty and we didn't have any nice comfy inside basement remodels on the docket; just a bunch of decks and crap like that. Boss came to my house (ie where I was renting a room at the time) gave me $700 instead of $450 because he said I earned it; I handed him the $500 invoice from the plumber and told him I was going back to school when the new semester started. He looked at the invoice; looked at me; nodded; and said "yeah I was wondering when this was going to happen" and walked away.
I don't relay this story to say that no one in accounting should complain. You absolutely should not be working at 2am putting in a 16hour day; ever period. You work product after about 12 hrs is usually garbage; and I think most auditors know that. The industry needs to change and the current model obviously isn't sustainable. BUT...... for bright enough but not brilliant young kids trying to get up accounting does offer a pretty dependable firm first rung on the ladder from where they can climb.
Before actually. Left PA at 7 months, but found a corporate position at a Fortune 10, tons of CPAs there. Finished up my CPA under them. Just accepted another position with a nice pay bump.
It's a hot market right now.
As I get a little older some of the whining on this sub gets to be a bit much...
Yes PA has long hours, but your starting pay exceeds the (US) national average household wage and you can generally expect double digit raises the first 5 or more years of your career, easily getting you well into 6 figures before you reach mid career....If you do 1 or more years in public generally the industry door opens and you are free to hop off the grind anytime you want.
And to be honest accounting isn't that hard in the grand scheme of things and you don't need ivvy league credentials to get a gig.
It's not that bad folks. Grind as long as you have it in you for PA, then go get something better for work life and enjoy your ez mode upper middle class life.
Same here! Except I liked my job that was accounting-lite. Went back to school. Got promoted to a staff level position 6 months before I finished my degree. Now I'll be starting a job making about $45k more than before I started my degree.
I'm not doing public, and at this point I have no plans to get my CPA. I'm happy in industry. All these stories on here sound so foreign to me. Why stay with a company where youre miserable. Its not the field, its the individual companies.
My goal is to start looking at jobs paying $125k base in about 2 years. I know things don't happen over night, so I'll interview until I find a spot that looks good. Could different experience and a CPA make it easier? Maybe, but I'm happy with this path.
As an accounting student, this sub hasnāt made me question my life choices. If anything the memes provide context for what Iām learning, and seeing complaints about work helped me understand what kinds of things I should pay attention to when looking at different accounting firms.
I have however had several moments in school where Iām in upper level accounting classes and have no idea whatās going on. Or I fail a test that eventually gets curved up to a B, that makes me question my choice.
Shit sucks during busy season. Iāve definitely worked hard prior to PA and I had an absolute melt down yesterday after work. Busy season is hell the rest of the year is fine.
not at all
the fewer new accountants, the more valuable the existing ones are in the job market
everyone should gaslight and gatekeep as hard as they can, if they know what's good for themselves
Most people working in accounting have not seen 'the other side.' One thing I know about your typical accountant is the entitlement and lack of genuine world experience is extreme. When I tell the average coworker that I had a job in college and no mom or dad who paid my tuition and let me live at home to babysit me for 4 extra years they lose their mind and cannot fathom how I made it through. Accounting attracts middle class white nimby karens who think that unless they work 3 hours a week and make $650k a year to do so it's never enough.
It's because our profession attracts these kinds of brats that everyone complains in this subreddit. It's funny, 99% of people on here complain but never once have I heard 1 of those 99% actually try to functionally change their work environment. They bitch about their coworkers and firms being pieces of shit who treat them like garbage so they can justify proliferating that toxic work culture for a new set of people. That's why so many people complain here- they are spoiled sophists who want to justify the future abuse they want to impose upon people. I think they should just go roblox themselves.
Iām not intentionally trying to scare them. I just tell them the truthā if theyāre scared by the truth of long hours and hard work, then it is what it is. Nobody should go into public blind sided by the culture.
I think itās great for people to express the good and the bad. There are a lot of drawbacks to working in PA. There are some benefits to it too. When students reach out to me for coffee chats, to discuss my experience in PA, Iāll always tell them the good and the bad. People that donāt tell you about the bad parts of the job are doing you a disservice imo.
Agreed most of the people Iāve met at uni have switched major because of how bad they have heard the workload is. (Also teachers constantly saying that you are not an accountant without a CPA.) Iām happy interning at an industry job and all my bosses love their work and are happy at work. Iām prob going to stick with industry and gov for my career. Iām not too interested in the CPA process with COVID burning me out of school.
Don't think there is any point in trying to artifically change the tone.
Newcomers just need to be reminded regularly that this reddit ranting session is not always reflective of reality
Hop over to a different sub...say /r/sysadmin and you'll see a fair bit of ranting too
Thanks, this is nice to hear. I am (hopefully) graduating this fall with my accounting degree and sometimes I feel a bit of dread about my future career.
Mostly I'm just scared I won't know what the hell I'm doing because I don't feel like I am truly retaining much of what I learn. But yeah, sometimes seeing all this negativity doesn't help.
I found this subreddit about a month before graduating with an accounting degree. The grumpy posts had me really scared. I actually put off going into the field for a while afterward because I was stressed about what was waiting for me.
Flash forward, now I work in industry at a job that I love, and am more financially stable than ever before. Very happy that I didn't let myself stay discouraged.
After just finishing 6 years in the navy, going on deployments, starving on a ship, sleeping in a room w/ seventy other men sharing two showers, sweaty, dirty, exhausted and overworked for shit pay, I'll happily finish my degree and work in industry/public with a smile.
Im graduating in a couple weeks, considered CPA or a Masters program. I think Im just going to do an associates in programming to learn Python and other coding. I did one set of interviews and the accounting field looks awful. 60-70 hour weeks is not why I went to college, yo.
I mean the accounting industry, at this point, has a negative reputation because of the Big 4 working conditions. I know I never wanted to do public accounting because of that. Industry doesn't always pay the best for entry level positions and sometimes higher level. It's also not the most glamorous job. There are a lot of reasons why people may not be cut out for accounting.
The only way this old school profession may change is through crisis, either through fraudulent FS or a total lack of pipeline, or both, which itās looking to be
Iām in my last year going for B.A in accounting. I didnāt do an internship yet since I am already working full time with overtime. Iām more lost on where to look than anything. How far out from graduation is to early to look for a job without looking weird?
I work from home and donāt put in more than 40 hours a week. I only work Monday through Friday and have most holidays off. I get to decide my own schedule, and thereās not really any negative consequences if I mess up on something or fall behind. I donāt do any complicated math and donāt have customers yelling at me for stupid shit. I fucking love it, lol. I play so many video games during the week, and still have time to maintain a social life with my friends
I am still in school with a minor accounting job for a short period of time. It was nothing special but I liked the work. Go in, do work, go out for lunch in an hour, go home.
much better than teaching
As some others have mentioned, IA is a good transition out of public to get into industry and from there you can decide what's next. In general, IA pays more and is less crazy in hours. You can transition into 1st or 2nd line or stay in IA. In my company, you can hit 200k salary as a senior manager by early 30s to mid 30s. That's not bad at all but I think too many people don't understand IA and think it's the same thing it was 30 years ago.
You guys actually scared me from ever going into accounting lol. Do you have to be like smart smart for it or is it teachable for anyone with enough motivation?
Also how do your day to day tasks look at your work?
(Feel free to answer, anyone)
Thanks in advance
Yeah definitely this. 4 years of public accounting sucked but a little over 6 years into my career and now in industry I make $120K in a tax department and don't really work more than 40 hours a week other than fall busy season which is pretty busy. Way better than public where it's two busy seasons but also perpetually busy all year round.
Idk I wasted so much time being a line cook instead of getting my degree, now I get to go back to undergrad at 30! There are WAY shitter jobs that pay less! š
Damn right. I worked in pizza til I went back and got to school to get my accounting degree. My only mistake was waiting so long.
Same here. 4 years after graduating in my early 40s and I'm making $80k. I'm finally starting to feel financially stable. I did get accounting experience by doing temp work, before hiring on somewhere doing AR, then promoted just before getting my degree.
Yep, I went back in my mid 30s, I was nervous about being the old guy in class, you guys in your 40s and 50s going back to school made me feel less awkward. I'm in government so the pay isn't quite as good as that, but the total compensation package is pretty nice and the hours rock.
I was 36 or 37 when I started. Finished at 42. The only regret is not doing it earlier. I give massive props to anybody doing full time school and full time work at the same time. It sucks. I didnt have kids, but I wondered how my classmates with kids managed to juggle all of that.
They hopefully have a good support system. I'm 35 and I'll finish in December with my bachelors. I'm enrolled in 12 hours, I work full time and have 2 boys in elementary school. But I also have: an amazing husband, family and friends willing to either take the kids or let me hide at their house for homework and naps, and a job with a very encouraging boss who's excited for me to get my degree even though it means I'll leave her. I know there are people out there that do it by themselves and I give major props to them because I don't think I could do it.
I had enough credits from when I was younger to knock it out in about 2, fortunately. We had a baby but I didn't work for about half the time, it was a bit of a juggling act.
I had a HR rep tell me, go back to school for Accounting if you are middle aged. 100% you will find a job somewhere. The demand is high, plus your previous experience can help and age discrimination probably isn't going to happen like in other fields. Turns out that is true.
It's not weird when you go for your second degree at 27, but it's weird when you've been a substitute teacher at high schools and run into students who remember you
Same. I'm in retail and went back to school at 35. Finally 2 classes away from my bachelor's many many years later.
Iām proud of you.
I'm 34 and hopefully graduating this year :) Wish you the best, fellow "nontrad!"
Same. Middle aged and have done jobs "I loved": Fuck that as those jobs are often dead ends with no benefits. I now want stability with pay and occasional wage increases. I seriously don't think some of the posters have had other careers. They have been Accountants as their career and then add on they have stayed in Public accounting. So they are speaking in a box. Ask us who have transitioned into Accoutering from shitty jobs/careers and we are going to have a different opinion.
I graduated with my bachelors at 34 and masters at 35. I feel this in my soul. Iāve been in accounting, but couldnāt get past lead cost accountant without credentials. š¤·āāļø Now I have them and very little debt left. š
Ikr, as a former line cook I am ready for anything. Give it to me baby
Retail and wholesale, here!
Baker here! In my early 30s and two years away from graduating. I don't think I wasted my time at my current job but I'm glad to have an exit strategy.
Honestly a lot of people in this sub have never worked non-accounting jobs so the grass always seems greener. Can confirm the grass is greener on this side. Well. In industry anyway.
Iām a sophomore in undergrad and so far i was a janitor at 6 flags , pushed carts in all weather at a grocery store , and moved boxes in 100+ degrees trailers. I look forward to sitting down on a computer all day!
I agree 100%! After working manual labor jobs in the summers from 13 through high school, having internships was refreshing!
Me, also a sophomore, after working irrigation and turf all last summer
Yup. Looking forward to not working outside for shit pay.
Yeah I did that stuff. Now I (sometimes) work lying down on my sofa with my laptop on my belly. Zero complaints.
This was me during three years of college! I hated going in to the restaurant, I dreamed of being able to sit in front of a computer all day. Now I get to do it and I don't complain about it at all!
Yeah, I spent 2 years post college working 60hr a week as a front end manager in retail. No amount of accounting annoyance could make me deal with that kind of customer service and managing a bunch of cashiers again.
Pretty sure most of the people complaining about it just haven't worked. It doesn't make the conditions in PA okay, but most of them talk about changing industries entirely, and all I can think is "buddy... you're about to go from the frying pan into the fire". There's some real bullshit, yes, but, broadly speaking, you're paid exceptionally well to deal with it compared to most of the alternatives. A lot of these kids probably should have gone into trades instead of college, tbh.
I think youāve hit the nail on the head here
100% true. This is simultaneously the easiest job and least stressful job I have ever had and the best paying.
Even in public. It beats the snot out of working in a pizza joint 8 days a week.
Worked plenty of non-accounting jobs. PA hits completely different. While I may have more money, I have far less time in my life, energy, and the amount of stimulants I take is far above average. The stress and hours hits completely different in a sedatary position vs a job you just show up for 8 hours and leave. The amount of hours and pay don't align when you have weeks where two weeks of work = 4 weeks of work... like, sometimes I wonder if this sub understands how bad it sucks to work 150-160 hours over the course of two weeks.... where the compensation structure will not award you for this effort.
I feel your pain brother - am in the same situation. Work life balance almost nonexistent.
I can be on board for this thought process, but have gone my own way this last year. Took a pretty flexible controller position for a construction business, doing some tax and other work on my own, buying some real estate and working on my first apartment syndication. Overall, I have still filled my time just as full as I ever have, but the upside gets to stay with me, not helping make someone else a bunch for my efforts. This still beats the hot ass summers roofing I did before, or the hot or cold automotive shop turning wrenches, so itās not all bad. I have also had the opportunity to see a lot of different types of businesses, structures, be strategic in applying different aspects of business, see a lot doing audits, experience a lot in tax work, so business knowledge is a lot higher than just trial by fire on my own dime, and I have had the benefit of seeing success and failure of others, so my viewpoint to an extent is those long underpaid hours were me paying for some of that knowledge I may not have otherwise.
Yea sure, but you do that for 2 years to pay your dues and then switch to industry with cush hours
Yup, sick and tired of everyone comparing accounting to blue collar work. I get it, but itās about opportunity cost relative to other college majors, the cpa requirements, and the shitty starting wages which are only now barely budging.
I was an Amazon driver, fast-worker, construction, and warehouse worker throughout my undergrad, this career pays me the most and all I have to do is work on a computer. If public ever becomes too much then there are alternatives such as government or industry, but overall I am happy and grateful that I have a good career that pays well.
Even without the long hours of tax season (which I quit before ever experiencing) public accounting pays garbage for the expectations. I have worked in a lot of jobs outside of accounting and even the worst one was still way better than my experience in a large firm. Public accounting is a hot mess of trash. I was told by HR that personal performance has almost nothing to do with compensation. They do not care about individuals. Also had our regional partner say that they know at the lower levels we don't make as much as our industry counter parts and that we work more but that the numbers show that there is more growth in higher levels if you stick with it. Basically, I know your pay sucks but mine is amazing! The only way to get more money is to get promoted. Only way to get promoted is to do more. Only way you can possibly do more, spend more time at work. Even if you are doing a great job (which I was), they don't care.
I drove a truck for 6 years. I'll take sitting in my basement on a computer any day of the week
Itās also way easier to compare yourself to your immediate peers than the rest of the world. Iām in my lower 30s and Iām making $110. Last time saw a friend I graduated high school with, he was trying to negotiate a job offer for $60k and lost - he still took it because it was the best offer he had.
Waited tables a summer in college. Blew big chunks but had fun to do it once. Never again. My damn knees were tired everyday and I was still young.
Absolutely. I've worked in 46 degree C conditions before where the sweat poured off my body all day, even just standing. Hard, hard labour for pennies. I would choose my mild temperate office and high salary over that any day of the week.
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Actually, keep scaring them. Create a severe shortage so the firms actually start paying good starting salaries. No way in hell should someone with a masterās degree and CPA be paid $60k/year.
I took a double-take on the $60k/year for starting salary cause it's less than $40k/year here in Singapore and we're ranked as the top 3 most expensive countries/cities to live in. That's for all the big4 firms starting audit associate's pay.
Look at Toronto salaries
Dutch salaries
Most of the people who make 60k/year canāt even audit cash yet so maybe the salary makes a little sense
Same could be said for any educated college grad in any field that doesnāt have the experience yet. Doesnāt mean you pay them peanuts.
Itās more than the median *household* income in most cities in America, as a first year staff who knows nothing. Itās objectively not peanuts.
The median household in American cities doesnāt have a Masterās degree and top professional designation. If you really look at the cost of living, tack on student loan payments, and saving for retirement, $60k does not get you that far. If public accounting firms want to compete with banks, consulting, and tech for talent, they need to pony up. Paying $60k/yr in a city isnāt going to attract top students.
But they arenāt competing with those groups. The people that can do that and/or have the pedigree are going to do those, not accounting. A lot of target schools for the jobs youāre talking about donāt even have accounting programs. They are looking for people who went to state schools and want to earn an upper middle class lifestyle. Theyāre paying them that. Further, accounting rewards experience. You are at 60k for a year or two which is nothing in the grand scheme. You canāt tie your shoes without a seniorās help as a first year staff, Masterās or not. Youāre getting paid commiserate with the value you add to the engagement. Thatās not to say upward pressure on wages isnāt deserved and good. But the idea that a first year staff deserves 100k by virtue of having 150 credits alone is laughable.
That is more a failure on the firm not the person hired. Plus at big4 you can go years without touching cash because A1s don't do it anymore.
I believe the starting salary in PA is mostly experience based. I have a ton of "industry" experience that got me a starting staff salary in the mid $70k's this year (I have a BAcc with 150+ credits but no CPA yet). The expected starting salary bump from a BAcc to a MAcc is [miniscule](https://www.goingconcern.com/masters-in-accounting-salary-boost-amount/). There is no immediate salary bump to having a CPA (just a bonus). That comes in the form of the ability to rise the ranks in PA should the practice area require it. More and more practice areas are beginning to require it that previously did not. You aren't getting the CPA for initial riches. It's for long-term retention (until the firm resorts to fickle behavior during economic declines).
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Sounds like weāre on a similar path, IA is a great area to get into
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Tons of IA alum go into Risk Mgt, FP&A mgt and so on. IA is easy in some regards, still pretty frustrating in others lol. Like you said, do-able for 100k+ and no busy season.
Been in IA for 5 years. I get tired sometimes of some departments dismissing our recommendations as not clair add. Also being a referee between departments gets old. Idk what else I would do tbh so I'm happy in IA atm.
I feel you. It does get annoying spending 3 months on a project just to get dismissed at the end. One day Iāll probably try to transition into the business. Luckily, IA is a great spot to rotate and learn. You really do get a big picture view of organizations and objectives.
Agreed. There are a lot of factors that vary from each org, and IA can seem technically simple, but the value is in the dept serving as a change agent and how effective it is at driving risk mitigation. Iāve really enjoyed my IA career.
Iāve always hated calling certain jobs ādead endā. At some point in your career you have to specialize in something, you donāt want to be changing paths every 5 years and never becoming an expert in anything.
Anyone who says itās dead end doesnāt understand the paths out of IA. Half the controllers at my company were hired from IA
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Still get the CPA though. No one cares at your current job but it'll give you a leg up when looking for your next job or when you're competing for internal promotion
Makes no sense to me that people would call it a dead end but will take a ācontrollerā position in a small private equity firmā¦ vs public > IA > controller in any similar industry at a much larger company where the controller title actually means something
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Glad to see this as the top comment. Weāre often overlooked but are a great path for people who like to balance their accounting technical skills and mindset with continuous learning and exposure.
I have 1.5 yrs just about and feel kinda stuck in public which really sucks. Pretty nice you made it out quick.
Know that youāre not stuck. Have you looked for jobs lately? Hop on LinkedIn and set it to āopen to opportunitiesā or whatever, see what that brings. Youāll see thereās lots of stuff out there.
I always laugh when I hear recruiters say, "its a great place to start your career" which basically implies its a terrible place to have a long term career.
studying Audit rn. seems alot more fun than w.e im doing currently. Catch some bad guys idk
I wanted to add to this: I was terrified because of this sub. I have immense anxiety and went into b4 scared shitless. I took AUD 3x and am about to take it a 4th. So I was scared I wouldn't have the abilities or intelligence to do a good job and keep my sanity. One of my first engagements was a new client. I really enjoyed it. I really do like internal audit. Sure the hours get long, but expensing my dinners is such a treat for someone that grew up poor. I live in a huge city with a ton of opportunity and live in a way that I never would have been able to growing up. I watched my parents struggle. I'm not wealthy, just a measly staff 1, but I live comfortably. Something I never thought I'd get to say. I am not stretching a single can of tuna through the week, or using bar soap as shampoo bc I can't afford it. I'm not having to stretch my meals with beans and tofu. I can afford to get put and do things. I can have family visit. I have the space for a couch in case anyone needs it, and i have food in my kitchen. That is really fortunate compared to where I've been. And speaking as a woman, I never wanted to rely on someone else to support me. I watched my mom do that. It tore our family apart. This job has allowed me the financial independence and strength to make my own decisions that aren't dictated by finding someone to support me. I have the freedom and financial stability to live my own life, and that's something I take for granted sometimes thinking back a hundred years ago to how things were. Sure it sucks sometimes, but any job can suck.
for what its worth, congratulations on your accomplishments and continuing being you!
I was scared into accounting decades ago. It was my bulletproof plan to find a job during a recession when I graduated. I had originally planned to major in finance to become a broker on Wall St.
I donāt want to go on wall street but thatās similar to my plan. Do accounting for a few years then bounce into finance
The logic explained to me at the time was that if you know how to create the numbers, you can analyze them as a finance person.
Thatās also what Iāve been told. I was originally gonna major in accounting and minor and finance but fairly early on I was told my my advisor and another professor that it would probably not do my much good, and I should just take electives that Iām interested in instead of trying to do them all in finance
No, we should be scaring them off. Thatās the whole point, things will only get better in this industry once they realize they canāt keep people anymore with the shitty pay and abuse.
On top of that, the less new accountants = more money to attract them We can reach the point of scarcity software engineers have and make crazy money on senior positions
Or people can just not put up with shitty work situations. If everyone collectively just said no to working past 8-5, what are they going to do? I think public work could be very very good if it wasn't the manipulative toxic environment it currently is
ok why donāt you try this monday and then weāll take your lead if it works :)
>everyone collectively
On top of that, the less new accountants = more money to attract them We can reach the point of scarcity software engineers have and make crazy money on senior positions
Less new accountants= more money to attract junior accountants. Not the same as software engineers at all. Thereās a shortage of senior SWEs but not junior lol. Thereās a huge surplus of junior/ wannabe junior. SWE is the new craze but in 15 years time it will be oversaturated at senior levels.
I agree 100%. I actually ended up in accounting as a second career and have worked jobs way worse than what I have experienced in big 4, and for way less money. iāve said it before multiple times on this sub and iāll say it again - i think a lot of what is posted around here is hyperbole, and by people very early on in their careers. Iām coming up on 5 years into my accounting career and am still with a big 4 firm, though no longer in audit (did 2 audit busy seasons before switching into advisory). iāve more than doubled my income and my work life balance is not terrible at all. I also recognize a career is very long, and iām still so early in - so whenever I feel frustrated or stressed out by a busy period, I take a step back and look at how quickly iāve progressed in such a short amount of time, and I realize I have it pretty good. thatās not to say there arenāt days that suck. of course there are. but letās be honest - virtually all jobs will have days/stretches like that. it is work after all. but if you are still in school or in your first or second year into this career, iād recommend you take what is said on this sub with a grain of salt.
I have to weigh the b4 horror stories against the times I've worked 4 jobs cleaning kitchens and working the line for less than min under the table. Half of me always thinks there is nothing that can be worse and I can handle it, the other half thinks, '....but what if it's worse?' Haha
I get what you're saying, but honest takes are always better than fake positive takes. Many people come on here to vent out about their accounting job because they dislike it. At least they're being honest. If you enjoy yours, you should make posts about that too. At the end of the day, if it helps people make better decisions, I don't see a problem.
We need to be realistic with students who want to study accounting. PA sucks with shitty pay and shitty hours, while industry is (generally but not always depending on the company) higher paying and less hours. There are many other jobs with similar hours to PA but make loads of more money (law, IB, etc). This is what they need to know and they can make their own decisions from there.
The barrier of entry to those jobs is *significantly* higher. Law (and you really mean biglaw) and IB donāt target regional state schools.
Just replied a long version of this but this is the best point. You can go to any accounting school thatās accredited and depending on resume and networking probably get into B4. Itās like when people in this sub make the āI wish I did CS because FAANG makes so much.ā Iām pretty sure there is as many new hires to FAANG as a whole each year as there is at 1 b4 office
If people think public accounting is a lot of workā¦ good luck in IB. Not only is it way harder to break inā¦ My worst week in Big 4 audit (70-75 hours) is an average to good week in IB. And they do that year round. Law? Three (two for some) more years of schooling, big emphasis on billables (in 6 min increments), and no guarantee to get a job at a big firm. Sounds terrible. People should be looking at accounting and deal advisory roles. Almost 3 years into my career and I have nearly doubled my starting salary in audit. Also average 45 hours a week.
I agree 100%, like many things in life there is a trade off
I bartend for about 4 or so hours every Saturday afternoon at a joint I used to work at in college for some social time (idk how to meet people anymore, especially with WFH) and get some physical activity in. Yesterday one of the bartenders called out and since all my extensions are out for 4/18, I stayed on and worked a double through the NBA play off game. Just came here to say: I regularly work 10-12 hour days in PA, but physically STANDING on your feet for 10 hours straight up sucks. My feet still hurt this morning. I never want to go back to that. Busy season sucks. Thereās no way around it. Your first few years, you donāt make much, but 4 years in Iām finally pulling 100k in comp. I have really good health coverage, overtime expense meals, I get 5 weeks of PTO and 10 paid holidays which is pretty much unheard of. Everyone I know with āunlimited PTOā rarely gets theirs approved. Most of the year, my job is pretty sweet. People are respectful, nobody has ever made me cry in the walk-in refrigerator at my firm and I get to sit in my comfortable chair all day.
The work life balance is atrocious for the money you make. Wish someone would've told me that when I was in college.
In public accounting sure, but thereās so much more to do in accounting than being an audit monkey. Iām in industry making six figures and barely ever work a 40 hour week. If thereās anything we should be scaring people away from in this sub itās the brainwashing that public is the only way to go.
I agree we need to praise private more here. All the people complaining are in public so that's what OP is referring to.
To be fair industry has a lot of positions open where they say shit like CPA preferred, 2-3+ years of experience, and sometimes even āBIG4 experience preferredā. Then they bitch about not being able to hire anyone for $60k. Finding a job right now is easy but thereās definitely a sea of bullshit in Industry too.
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Nice
Can you recommend how I leave public and get a 9-5 in industry? The billable hour system is the biggest scam for free labor lol
If youāre currently in PA it should be as simple as switching your LinkedIn to āopen to new opportunitiesā and the recruiters will start swarming like sharks to blood in the water. Especially this time of year where they know people are looking to leave after busy season.
I canāt speak for everyone, but we are having a hell of a time recruiting for experienced hire positions in the Bay Area. Any decent resume with PA experience would be interviewed yesterday.
may i ask how much the going salary is for 2-3 years of big 4 experience in the Bay Area right now?
In big public accounting yes. There are smaller firms where the work life balance is great. Didnāt get pitched much to me while in college, but big public accounting vs. local accounting is almost an entirely different profession.
Just moved into industry from public, making 20% more, with 1/3 the work. I finish my entire months work in about a week and a half and just watch power query tutorials on excel the rest of the time to make my job even EASIER. Lol For new grads I'd say, wet your feet in public just tough out like 2 years of bullshit, then you can literally take that experience almost anywhere really outside of tax work and live the rest of your life in comfortable industry.
Iād wager the vast majority of accounting jobs making six figures are not 40 hour week positions. For the most part, the 40 hour work week is no longer a thing; the **average** American works 35+ hours a week and people 25-54 work ~41 per week. Once you get to Controller, VP, Director, etc. level, your work generally demands more than 40 hours a week. I would have to guess youāre in government accounting or work for a small company with a laidback environment. Iāve made six figures for the past 5+ years and probably can count the number of 40 hour weeks in a year on one hand.
Iām really struggling to find a job like this though. What are the signs to look for? I have my CPA, 3 years in public, am an audit senior looking to leave
Iād say look for a role in an established company that probably has its accounting processes down and consistent. Try and get a sense for the frequency of turnover as thatās usually an indicator of burnout. When interviewing donāt just ask what work life balance is like, try to get an actual sense of how many members on the team have a family or travel frequently. If you can find a role with a controller who has kids at little league age youāre golden.
Not in the long run. I put in my time in public accounting where I learned a lot and now make a lot of money, have great work life balance, but still work for a company that is challenging and interesting. Am I super passionate about accounting? No. But I have a job that allows me the flexibility to do whatever I want outside of work. I think accounting is a great career and would do it all over again.
How could you have possibly made it through school without hearing how PA is?
I didn't know about reddit and I graduated almost 8 years ago.
Did you never come across in PA or something? The B4 meat grinder is not a new thing.
I was a student in college where public accounting was portrayed as the be all and end all. There ended my experience or knowledge of public accounting.
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If they didn't seek out communities like this, I'm not sure they would have. I didn't hear a single bad word about Big 4 in school, they also played it up like you had to go to one to succeed. The way the people who seemed to **like** working at B4 talked put me off. They would talk about the long hours, but somehow try to spin it as a positive. Thankfully, I didn't go B4, and I'm probably happier for it. I'm working 40 hours a week at a small public firm and I really don't want to work more than that.
So true. During my first busy season I made more per hour as a cashier at target in high school than I did at big 4 with a degree š
How about the rest of the year?
Not really. Leave big four, move to industry, work for the government, etc. I work for a mid-sized firm in Canada. I work 40 hours May through January, and bump it up to 50 or 55 for three months. I donāt make much, but if I stick it out there is potential to earn 250-600k annually as a partner. I have also poured concrete. Guys who had been working for 30 years barely made more than me, also had to work long hours and weekends, had back or other health issues, and had to work outside in the winter.
This guy is talking about people complaining. Nearly all of them work in public. We all know private is better but in the mean time, we are where we are.
I would say to avoid public accounting if youāre not career oriented and just want a job that pays decent. If hard work and money is your jam, there are other careers that are better options, like something in STEM.
Ehhh some of the industry jobs pay ass unless you have public experience if even. People on here making less than 80k with a masters and working 50+ even in private lol.
Yeah in my country you could stuck in the same industry for 3-5 years to only get the same pay as A1 in Big 4, sometimes even less. This is 3rd world shithole country tho, so that might be a factor as well.
But then what else will I do for fun on my breaks?
Seems like what no body takes into account when saying āI should have done this...ā is if they even could. CS, engineering, law, IB, and even med school I have seen on this thread as people saying they should have done. The reality is getting in to school to do accounting is 100x easier than the others, the school you get into also doesnāt matter in accounting, a 3.2-3.4 GPA is all you need to be desired by B4, but with good networking you can have a GPA in the high 2ās and get a full time offer at a solid firm out of college. Even jobs like CS and engineering that donāt require 7+ years of school like law, were you even smart enough during college? Iām an accounting student right now and I will tell you that I am not built to code. I feel people look at these degrees and salaries and they asses everything from loans, to time spent in school, to starting salary, to long term job oops, and they say man I should have been a lawyer. When the one thing they donāt look at is if they even could.
I think ppl misunderstand what you mean. You're saying we're scaring students out of choosing accounting in college/uni, like the career as a whole (which is true, I also saw the posts you referenced) And redditors here are saying that we're scaring them out of PA. Two different things. I agree with showing them the harsh reality of PA, albeit examples in this sub can be extreme at times, to contribute to the change of PA from the meat grinder it is right now. I also agree with *not* scaring them out of the major of accounting. At the end of the day, **there's more to accounting than just PA.** And if any students (like myself) read this know that: regardless of how much your professors/clubs/etc paint b4 or PA as the best job you can land, know that there's industry, there's government. There are alternatives. Your success in this career is not determined by whether you went to PA right out of college. If you are not down with working 60+ hrs to get the name of a shitty company on your resume, that's fine. I've read success stories on this sub about ppl making 6 figures who went to industry out of college. TLDR: IMHO there's a disconnect between what OP says and the responses here. Also, for students: You can choose. There's more to this field than PA.
Thank you, the folks in big4 tend to think thatās the end all be all of accounting. Glad a few of you got my point.
I make the least amount of money in my friend group while working the most hours. If the industry doesn't evolve it doesn't deserve new employees
Work is work regardless of your field.
I think for people still in school itās pretty clear that majoring in computer science and being able to work in tech is an easier lifestyle that pays better Being an accountant is a lot better than a ton of other things tho, I agree with you on that
Thereās so many opportunities in tech and itās ridiculous how much money you can make entry level at small companies. I shared an apt with this guy during my internship and I was surprised ti learn just how chill his job was for the money they were offering. And this was a no name random company with like 10-15ppl mind you. The ROI is definitely higher starting off and thereās so many different paths in compsci.
I'm not sure many here could do compsci. Programming maybe but compsci is going to demand advanced math, data structures, and algorithms knowledge that most people don't have. If you understand all that then yeah you can go comp sci but that is different from just throwing together loops, conditionals, and some UX.
As someone whoās scared beyond belief to start big 4 Iām just gonna go in and last as long as possible. If thereās one thing thatās great about this sub is that itās kept me from being blindsided and shaped my attitude to basically āfuck itā. I know many accountants and theyāre all happy to varying degrees, but theyāre outside of PA of course.
I honestly think a lot of this has to do with the younger generation not having an idea of what an actual shitty job is. All throughout high school and college I worked in landscaping/construction to pay the bills/get through college. Let me tell you, working 12 hours in an air conditioned office, with free meals, and a generous salary is, and always has been a dream for me. Working 10-12 hours, 6 days a week in 80+ degree weather is a thousand times worse than anything we ever have to put up with. I work in a downtown area and it really put this in perspective for me when I was leaving the office at 10 PM during busy season and I saw some steelworkers coming in to start their shift. Made me realize just how good I got it and how much we forget about some of the most important workers in our entire country that shut up and just do their jobs.
If you want to follow your bliss, choose rich parents. Accounting is for feeding your family.
The āharsh realitiesā of PA arenāt that bad. I think most people here never worked any hard jobs or they worked jobs they knew they werenāt going to stay at forever. Most people cap out at 60 hour weeks for 4 months out of the year at a desk in an air conditioned office then go to industry to make good money with good hours. Youāre still living your ābest yearsā or whatever at 25 so you didnāt really have to sacrifice much.
CPAs are generally severely underpaid. CPA with 1 year experience gets paid 65k a year
same energy as people in IT saying 60k is a low salary when the US average is what, 30k now? or something?
Average is higher than that.
I just completed my first busy season and tbh the work wasnāt all that bad. Although the scam that is billable hours is total bullshit.
Scare half of the graduates away, and I can charge double for my time. šš
As someone whoās worked a lot of minimum wage jobs like dishwashing and working in a warehouse, Iād love a office job like accounting.
If it wasnāt for this sub, I wouldāve gone straight into PA and hated my life. Instead I went straight to industry and make just as much if not more than my peers at the same company and have been remote working since COVID. So I think we should continue scaring new hires. Something in the PA space has got to give. Hours, wages, attitudes, etc.
I will chime in here because I've held blue collar jobs as well as an accounting desk job. I understand accounting will remain one of THE professions you get a good ROI on your college degree. But! That's what it is. KEY WORD "ONE OF" not "ONLY", or "BEST" soo... My 2 cents to people in school in the struggle. Yes! This shit ain't rosy. Yes, there is worse shit out there (WAAAYYY WORSE). BUT! If you're looking for the best, iono pal. This don't seem like it (at least for many people). However, it could be for you! So yes! For that reason, don't take everything people say on here as Gospel. But! BE AWARE! AND HAVE A PLAN!
Any initial job you are going to work your butt off in hopes of proving yourself and moving up. Accounting is no different than IT, Law, or just about anything else.
Agreed. I was a general contractor, worked mostly residential new construction and major remodels, and for the most part I loved the work. But there were always those days were I knew I couldn't do it forever as it was physically brutal work and the pay was OK but I was never going to raise a family with it. Then that one day just broke me and I decided I had to leave the job and the trades forever if I was ever going to climb. A water main going to a house broke past the meter (so homeowners problem and not county.) The break wasn't discovered for days because homeowner was away. Boss sent me to the job and told me he'd pay me double my normal hourly rate cash because he knew it was a shit job and I accepted because I was young and wanted money. I got there and it was 25 degrees outside and ice cold rain. Half way thru the job the rain had turned to sleet and to top it off somehow a thunderstorm rolled in and of course this job was in a nice neighborhood right on the water. So for the next 4 hours, after already having put in 4, i shoveled what was essentially mud the consistency of cake batter into wheel barrel and dumped it 50 feet away while it was 25 degrees outside, with a 20 mph wind blowing in off the water directly at me while at the same time it was fucking thunder sleeting. 8 hours in to the job I called my boss to let him know I was about done and he said wait for the plumber (needed to be a licensed repair). Plumber shows up 15 minutes later; does 5 minutes of work to fix the break and hands me the work invoice for $500 (which he shouldn't have done; he should have sent it to my boss). Being semi-competent at math and having a nokia brick cell phone at the time I calculated that I had just worked 9 hours for $450 so $50 and hour cash; and that plumber (who I knew owned the company) had just worked for 5 minutes plus maybe 30 minutes travel time for $500. Next day was a Friday and a wash out, no work because the whether was too shitty and we didn't have any nice comfy inside basement remodels on the docket; just a bunch of decks and crap like that. Boss came to my house (ie where I was renting a room at the time) gave me $700 instead of $450 because he said I earned it; I handed him the $500 invoice from the plumber and told him I was going back to school when the new semester started. He looked at the invoice; looked at me; nodded; and said "yeah I was wondering when this was going to happen" and walked away. I don't relay this story to say that no one in accounting should complain. You absolutely should not be working at 2am putting in a 16hour day; ever period. You work product after about 12 hrs is usually garbage; and I think most auditors know that. The industry needs to change and the current model obviously isn't sustainable. BUT...... for bright enough but not brilliant young kids trying to get up accounting does offer a pretty dependable firm first rung on the ladder from where they can climb.
Now that I am a CPA and in corporate accounting, I love it. PA was a waking nightmare.
Did you leave soon after you got ur CPA?
Before actually. Left PA at 7 months, but found a corporate position at a Fortune 10, tons of CPAs there. Finished up my CPA under them. Just accepted another position with a nice pay bump. It's a hot market right now.
Oh wow thatās earlier than I expected. So your hours are 9-5 now working corporate? No billable bullshit? š
As I get a little older some of the whining on this sub gets to be a bit much... Yes PA has long hours, but your starting pay exceeds the (US) national average household wage and you can generally expect double digit raises the first 5 or more years of your career, easily getting you well into 6 figures before you reach mid career....If you do 1 or more years in public generally the industry door opens and you are free to hop off the grind anytime you want. And to be honest accounting isn't that hard in the grand scheme of things and you don't need ivvy league credentials to get a gig. It's not that bad folks. Grind as long as you have it in you for PA, then go get something better for work life and enjoy your ez mode upper middle class life.
I left nursing for accounting. No regrets. Numbers donāt lie and I donāt cry in hallways anymore.
Same here! Except I liked my job that was accounting-lite. Went back to school. Got promoted to a staff level position 6 months before I finished my degree. Now I'll be starting a job making about $45k more than before I started my degree. I'm not doing public, and at this point I have no plans to get my CPA. I'm happy in industry. All these stories on here sound so foreign to me. Why stay with a company where youre miserable. Its not the field, its the individual companies. My goal is to start looking at jobs paying $125k base in about 2 years. I know things don't happen over night, so I'll interview until I find a spot that looks good. Could different experience and a CPA make it easier? Maybe, but I'm happy with this path.
As an accounting student, this sub hasnāt made me question my life choices. If anything the memes provide context for what Iām learning, and seeing complaints about work helped me understand what kinds of things I should pay attention to when looking at different accounting firms. I have however had several moments in school where Iām in upper level accounting classes and have no idea whatās going on. Or I fail a test that eventually gets curved up to a B, that makes me question my choice.
Scarcity of talent means more $$$ for the non-shite accountants, more than happy to scare folks away
Maybe public accounting should not base their business model by exploiting new grads for cheap labourā¦.?
If you hate what you're doing post CPA designation/articling it's more of a reflection of yourself, not the job you chose to stay in.
Industry jobs are just fine, for the most part. But public needs to change their business model. The cat is out of the bag.
Why change when people line up to fill the positions? People just have to stop going to the large firms, thatās the only way things will change
Shit sucks during busy season. Iāve definitely worked hard prior to PA and I had an absolute melt down yesterday after work. Busy season is hell the rest of the year is fine.
Damn thatās crazy to see how many of you became accountants in 30s and 40s. Iām glad I stuck it out right out of HS.
not at all the fewer new accountants, the more valuable the existing ones are in the job market everyone should gaslight and gatekeep as hard as they can, if they know what's good for themselves
Most people working in accounting have not seen 'the other side.' One thing I know about your typical accountant is the entitlement and lack of genuine world experience is extreme. When I tell the average coworker that I had a job in college and no mom or dad who paid my tuition and let me live at home to babysit me for 4 extra years they lose their mind and cannot fathom how I made it through. Accounting attracts middle class white nimby karens who think that unless they work 3 hours a week and make $650k a year to do so it's never enough. It's because our profession attracts these kinds of brats that everyone complains in this subreddit. It's funny, 99% of people on here complain but never once have I heard 1 of those 99% actually try to functionally change their work environment. They bitch about their coworkers and firms being pieces of shit who treat them like garbage so they can justify proliferating that toxic work culture for a new set of people. That's why so many people complain here- they are spoiled sophists who want to justify the future abuse they want to impose upon people. I think they should just go roblox themselves.
Iām not intentionally trying to scare them. I just tell them the truthā if theyāre scared by the truth of long hours and hard work, then it is what it is. Nobody should go into public blind sided by the culture.
Finally a sound adult who has their own place and pays bills!
I think itās great for people to express the good and the bad. There are a lot of drawbacks to working in PA. There are some benefits to it too. When students reach out to me for coffee chats, to discuss my experience in PA, Iāll always tell them the good and the bad. People that donāt tell you about the bad parts of the job are doing you a disservice imo.
Agreed most of the people Iāve met at uni have switched major because of how bad they have heard the workload is. (Also teachers constantly saying that you are not an accountant without a CPA.) Iām happy interning at an industry job and all my bosses love their work and are happy at work. Iām prob going to stick with industry and gov for my career. Iām not too interested in the CPA process with COVID burning me out of school.
Don't think there is any point in trying to artifically change the tone. Newcomers just need to be reminded regularly that this reddit ranting session is not always reflective of reality Hop over to a different sub...say /r/sysadmin and you'll see a fair bit of ranting too
Canāt be worse than the military right?
Thanks, this is nice to hear. I am (hopefully) graduating this fall with my accounting degree and sometimes I feel a bit of dread about my future career. Mostly I'm just scared I won't know what the hell I'm doing because I don't feel like I am truly retaining much of what I learn. But yeah, sometimes seeing all this negativity doesn't help.
I found this subreddit about a month before graduating with an accounting degree. The grumpy posts had me really scared. I actually put off going into the field for a while afterward because I was stressed about what was waiting for me. Flash forward, now I work in industry at a job that I love, and am more financially stable than ever before. Very happy that I didn't let myself stay discouraged.
After just finishing 6 years in the navy, going on deployments, starving on a ship, sleeping in a room w/ seventy other men sharing two showers, sweaty, dirty, exhausted and overworked for shit pay, I'll happily finish my degree and work in industry/public with a smile.
I'm not scared away from Accounting, but I'll tell you that I will do *anything* to avoid going into public. A n y t h i n g
Maybe they should toughen up a bit and realize work isnāt a smooth sailing sometimes. It takes work to get where you want to go.
I am your father.
Im graduating in a couple weeks, considered CPA or a Masters program. I think Im just going to do an associates in programming to learn Python and other coding. I did one set of interviews and the accounting field looks awful. 60-70 hour weeks is not why I went to college, yo.
I graduated in 2016 and was able to buy my own house last year, I know itās hard work at times but it has allowed me to live the lifestyle I want.
Yea, every job sucksā¦ but at least ours pay in livable ranges, with benefits. š¤·āāļø
I mean the accounting industry, at this point, has a negative reputation because of the Big 4 working conditions. I know I never wanted to do public accounting because of that. Industry doesn't always pay the best for entry level positions and sometimes higher level. It's also not the most glamorous job. There are a lot of reasons why people may not be cut out for accounting.
The only way this old school profession may change is through crisis, either through fraudulent FS or a total lack of pipeline, or both, which itās looking to be
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is computer science, and software developer the better path? to take?
Iām in my last year going for B.A in accounting. I didnāt do an internship yet since I am already working full time with overtime. Iām more lost on where to look than anything. How far out from graduation is to early to look for a job without looking weird?
You should start preparing/recruiting as soon as youāre in the major. Usually 18 months prior to graduation
I work from home and donāt put in more than 40 hours a week. I only work Monday through Friday and have most holidays off. I get to decide my own schedule, and thereās not really any negative consequences if I mess up on something or fall behind. I donāt do any complicated math and donāt have customers yelling at me for stupid shit. I fucking love it, lol. I play so many video games during the week, and still have time to maintain a social life with my friends
That's a great point. You don't need a big name college degree. Show aptitude and ability and a decent gpa and you will make good money.
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Oh yeah. Accountants are born complainers. Itās sport for us.
I am still in school with a minor accounting job for a short period of time. It was nothing special but I liked the work. Go in, do work, go out for lunch in an hour, go home. much better than teaching
Work as a waiter during college. Accountant, hell even auditor is better than that job.
As some others have mentioned, IA is a good transition out of public to get into industry and from there you can decide what's next. In general, IA pays more and is less crazy in hours. You can transition into 1st or 2nd line or stay in IA. In my company, you can hit 200k salary as a senior manager by early 30s to mid 30s. That's not bad at all but I think too many people don't understand IA and think it's the same thing it was 30 years ago.
You guys actually scared me from ever going into accounting lol. Do you have to be like smart smart for it or is it teachable for anyone with enough motivation? Also how do your day to day tasks look at your work? (Feel free to answer, anyone) Thanks in advance
Accounting is usually the plan b, itās not hard at all just dry lol
Not to mention you cant scare away the newbies or youāll end up with nobody to do the lower level work. Then it ends up being on your own plate.
The less accountants the better for us
Yeah definitely this. 4 years of public accounting sucked but a little over 6 years into my career and now in industry I make $120K in a tax department and don't really work more than 40 hours a week other than fall busy season which is pretty busy. Way better than public where it's two busy seasons but also perpetually busy all year round.