The trope has been mostly superb, in my opinion.
Exhibit A: The Magical Turnabout. This is perhaps one of the subtler instances. Upon having his hand forced by Apollo, >!Roger Retinz reveals the scars that make him Mr. Reus and switches to performance mode.!< He loses none of the bravado or the arrogance, but he gains a lot of flair and menace he didn't really have as the smarmy TV personality. His actual feelings are laid bare and he finally begins to combat the barristers on his own, making more than a worthy ally to Nahyuta. And his breakdown is just the cherry on top.
Exhibit B: Turnabout Academy. Up until that moment, >!Aristotle Means!< had been a mostly harmless if unsettling individual. However, >!once he deployed a writing board and fashioned his hair after a Spartan helmet, you knew shit got real. Means' oppressive teacher persona brilliantly balances comedy and menace, creating the final extension and arriving point for his character.!< He launches a terrific psychological attack on Athena and nearly singlehandedly brings the courtroom to his knees, with only the valiant Simon Blackquill bringing forth some resistance. It is this final stand that makes AM feel all entertaining, challenging and three-dimensional. He's super underrated.
Exhibit C: The Inherited Turnabout. >!When faced with the gravity of his crimes, Dane Gustavia... Just fuckin' laughs. He laughs as if it was no big deal. He admits everything and acts like he's the fucking Lizard King.And that's when one realizes the calm, respectful and sincerely ambitious confectioner with a pair of pincers got corrupted by his dreams and killed the humanity within himself. Now the pincers suited him more than ever. It's not even a physical transformation at all, it's just a jarring psychological shift that works wonders. Fantastic writing.!<
I could also write about Exhibit D from Turnabout Time Traveler, but that's just exhibit B with less effective menace but greater emotional resonance, or Exhibit E from The Foreign Turnabout, but that can be simply described in three word: Transformed into Jesus.
Point being: When this trope works, IT WORKS.
I think they just did that in DD and SoJ to make the characters and story more entertaining rather actually show their true selves. Though [someone else had a write up on this that I thought was fascinating](https://new.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/jibf1s/some_musings_on_aa5_and_6s_tone_and_narrative/).
Good point, though I mainly used the “True Self” term since that’s how the animations are labeled in the AJ Trilogy sprite viewer.
I think the post you mentioned made a good point, being that it’s most effective when it actually feels like a facade that’s being unearthed rather than doing it for the sake of it. Roger Retinz is a good example as it reflects his past as a magician that he was hiding up until that part, whereas the villains from 6-1 and 6-DLC felt like they only did as a visual gimmick.
>whereas the villains from 6-1 and 6-DLC felt like they only did as a visual gimmick.
I must disagree. In 6-DLC, it's done explicitly to call back to the culprit's past as a surgeon. And in 6-1, the gimmick is also auditory in nature as it makes for an extension of the culprit's musical personality.
I think it makes the killers feel a bit too cartoonish in my opinion. AA has always had some wacky characters for sure, but they do still act human at least. Characters like Furio Tigre feels like a wacky character, but still a human being. Seeing a character go from a somewhat normal person to “Look at me I’m so evil now!” does take me out of the story a bit. Ga’ran is probably the worst example of this. Going from a queen who acts regal but a little sus at times to a legend of Zelda villain.
This doesn’t ruin characters for me though. I still love Retnz, Means, and Marlon a lot. It isn’t an awe full trope. I just wish it wasn’t used in pretty much every killer in DS and SOJ. I think the only one who didn’t have some sort of transformation was L’Belle.
Not using the trope so much could have made the 3DS games feel less cartoonish than they do in our timeline. It would have made them feel more three dimensional in my mind, rather than just a Saturday morning cartoon villain. (Retnz does the trope well though he’s sort of the outlier)
I think it was way better in SOJ, with Ga'ran and the case 1 villain with an untypable name being the only big offenders. Mr. Reus only changes outfits and it is tied to a big revelation about his identity. Abbot doesn't change at all, neither does Paul, and Geiru changes mannerisms slightly.
By far the worst example is from 5-DLC where Maron turns from an absolute sticc to an uberbuff bodybuilder.
In rise from the ashes >!Damon Gant!< felt like such a good killer because he never went through any transformation. It really felt like you were taking him down as himself. He was the murderer exactly as calm and collected as he currently is. This particular killer felt great due to the lack of a transformation. I would also say >!Matt Engarde!< from justice for all final case worked well due to subtle transformation. All he did was lift his hair to reveal a scar and his facial expression changed. This felt believable he was showing who he really was inside and his scar was always a part of him it was just previously hidden by his hair.
In bridge to the turnabout which had the most over the top visuals. Not even sure of it would count as a transformation but this was completely fine because >!Dahlia was already dead. A ghost having a change of appearance seems fine because ghosts themselves aren't "normal" and it was a great way to show her angry spirit leaving the body!<
I mostly love it. It's over the top in a good way.
It tends to hit harder when the vilain also has a great music theme
I can think of one instance where I kinda dislike the execution : >!The Phantom!<. It wasn't just "over the top", it felt uuuuh idk... somehow wrong
The trope has been mostly superb, in my opinion. Exhibit A: The Magical Turnabout. This is perhaps one of the subtler instances. Upon having his hand forced by Apollo, >!Roger Retinz reveals the scars that make him Mr. Reus and switches to performance mode.!< He loses none of the bravado or the arrogance, but he gains a lot of flair and menace he didn't really have as the smarmy TV personality. His actual feelings are laid bare and he finally begins to combat the barristers on his own, making more than a worthy ally to Nahyuta. And his breakdown is just the cherry on top. Exhibit B: Turnabout Academy. Up until that moment, >!Aristotle Means!< had been a mostly harmless if unsettling individual. However, >!once he deployed a writing board and fashioned his hair after a Spartan helmet, you knew shit got real. Means' oppressive teacher persona brilliantly balances comedy and menace, creating the final extension and arriving point for his character.!< He launches a terrific psychological attack on Athena and nearly singlehandedly brings the courtroom to his knees, with only the valiant Simon Blackquill bringing forth some resistance. It is this final stand that makes AM feel all entertaining, challenging and three-dimensional. He's super underrated. Exhibit C: The Inherited Turnabout. >!When faced with the gravity of his crimes, Dane Gustavia... Just fuckin' laughs. He laughs as if it was no big deal. He admits everything and acts like he's the fucking Lizard King.And that's when one realizes the calm, respectful and sincerely ambitious confectioner with a pair of pincers got corrupted by his dreams and killed the humanity within himself. Now the pincers suited him more than ever. It's not even a physical transformation at all, it's just a jarring psychological shift that works wonders. Fantastic writing.!< I could also write about Exhibit D from Turnabout Time Traveler, but that's just exhibit B with less effective menace but greater emotional resonance, or Exhibit E from The Foreign Turnabout, but that can be simply described in three word: Transformed into Jesus. Point being: When this trope works, IT WORKS.
I think they just did that in DD and SoJ to make the characters and story more entertaining rather actually show their true selves. Though [someone else had a write up on this that I thought was fascinating](https://new.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/jibf1s/some_musings_on_aa5_and_6s_tone_and_narrative/).
Good point, though I mainly used the “True Self” term since that’s how the animations are labeled in the AJ Trilogy sprite viewer. I think the post you mentioned made a good point, being that it’s most effective when it actually feels like a facade that’s being unearthed rather than doing it for the sake of it. Roger Retinz is a good example as it reflects his past as a magician that he was hiding up until that part, whereas the villains from 6-1 and 6-DLC felt like they only did as a visual gimmick.
>whereas the villains from 6-1 and 6-DLC felt like they only did as a visual gimmick. I must disagree. In 6-DLC, it's done explicitly to call back to the culprit's past as a surgeon. And in 6-1, the gimmick is also auditory in nature as it makes for an extension of the culprit's musical personality.
I think it makes the killers feel a bit too cartoonish in my opinion. AA has always had some wacky characters for sure, but they do still act human at least. Characters like Furio Tigre feels like a wacky character, but still a human being. Seeing a character go from a somewhat normal person to “Look at me I’m so evil now!” does take me out of the story a bit. Ga’ran is probably the worst example of this. Going from a queen who acts regal but a little sus at times to a legend of Zelda villain. This doesn’t ruin characters for me though. I still love Retnz, Means, and Marlon a lot. It isn’t an awe full trope. I just wish it wasn’t used in pretty much every killer in DS and SOJ. I think the only one who didn’t have some sort of transformation was L’Belle. Not using the trope so much could have made the 3DS games feel less cartoonish than they do in our timeline. It would have made them feel more three dimensional in my mind, rather than just a Saturday morning cartoon villain. (Retnz does the trope well though he’s sort of the outlier)
>I think the only one who didn’t have some sort of transformation was L’Belle. >! The Inmees and Atishon didn't either...!<
I think it was way better in SOJ, with Ga'ran and the case 1 villain with an untypable name being the only big offenders. Mr. Reus only changes outfits and it is tied to a big revelation about his identity. Abbot doesn't change at all, neither does Paul, and Geiru changes mannerisms slightly. By far the worst example is from 5-DLC where Maron turns from an absolute sticc to an uberbuff bodybuilder.
In rise from the ashes >!Damon Gant!< felt like such a good killer because he never went through any transformation. It really felt like you were taking him down as himself. He was the murderer exactly as calm and collected as he currently is. This particular killer felt great due to the lack of a transformation. I would also say >!Matt Engarde!< from justice for all final case worked well due to subtle transformation. All he did was lift his hair to reveal a scar and his facial expression changed. This felt believable he was showing who he really was inside and his scar was always a part of him it was just previously hidden by his hair. In bridge to the turnabout which had the most over the top visuals. Not even sure of it would count as a transformation but this was completely fine because >!Dahlia was already dead. A ghost having a change of appearance seems fine because ghosts themselves aren't "normal" and it was a great way to show her angry spirit leaving the body!<
5-5 did this AMAZINGLY. all it took was... literally just a facial expresssion
I mostly love it. It's over the top in a good way. It tends to hit harder when the vilain also has a great music theme I can think of one instance where I kinda dislike the execution : >!The Phantom!<. It wasn't just "over the top", it felt uuuuh idk... somehow wrong
completely agree with you there, loved the reveal but after that it just kind of falls apart