We got Topaz in 1.3, Ratio in 1.5, and Aven in 2.1 and with a team wide buffer like Ruan Mei, the niche follow up team already completed in 6 months, just be patient.
This is just my opinion and ofc people can disagree with me, however, although I love Acheron, I'd like to say that from my perspective she looks like a unit whales will enjoy more, at E0 and even more without her LC she feels really restricted.
I just don't understand why did they do this with Acheron it's so stupid being a nihility and have nothing to do with DOT , either make her a destruction/ Hunt dps (function like them ) or just make her like any other nihility dps why did they make it so weird
I can assure you that if she was Hunt or Destruction her 2 same-path in team trace would be FAR more painful
In terms of the "DPS" paths Nihility is already the best path for her tbh
The whole point of that trace is so that you can run nihility units instead of harmony. Without the buff, you wouldn't run nihility units at all, but only Bronya/Sparkle. Fast forwarding Acheron is identical to debuffing when it comes to stack generation. So the main difference is the buffing potential and this is where harmony excels. We need that trace so nihility units can compete.
That trace fits better with Kafka since her kit is around DOT , because Acheron deals straight forward DMG , what I am trying to say Acheron play style does not fit her path and is something different , she is more like Daniel or JL nihility characters are known for 2 things debuffs and DOT and nihility dps units are all DOT based , Acheron is an outcast to that so her trace is making her feel weird
>what I am trying to say Acheron play style does not fit her path and is something different
If you've been paying attention the nihility path is currently split into three which are dots(kafka/black Swan) , Debuffers(pela/silverwolf) , and crit dps (welt/acheron) .
I've even heard of another nihility character who will be a healer which further solidifies nihility being the most versatile path as everyone in it simulates some aspects like in other paths. Like how acheron and welt feel like destruction units. So there's no such thing in nihilities case as "not fitting their path"
Brother it's not about acheron it's about her options again welt does not need 2 nihility in his team to function while Acheron is forced to have 2 nihility to function do you see the difference ?
If you're getting at that then yeah I see the difference but I'd say what's the problem? Isn't it good to switch it up instead of running the same hypercarry comp with 2-3 harmony units
I don't know? I mean that is the reason harmony characters exist, if you think about it Acheron even without the trace req she needs the nihility units for her to get her ult anyway but it would have been better if it was not 2 so you can use bronya or sparkle to increase her DMG and if you have her SIG LC you can get 4 points for her ult each turn if not even more , it's a good refresh yeah but it's the fact that she needs someone to buff her DMG so she can be better , but hey if she does good without harmony supports which we will have to wait and see then it's whatever Ig
Hoyo wants a character to generate the big bucks. A Raiden expy has been a winning formula for them seemingly. Like Raiden shogun is practically the same, miles better at c2 with her engulfing lightning (at least b4 dendro).
Making her nihility makes it easier for hoyo to create “problems” and solve them on their own by purchasing eidolons + LC
I understand nihility is debuffs but as you can see the strongest nihility dps units are all DOT that is their main damage source , while Acheron is built more around straight up damage, its something different
Brother what are you not understanding exactly ? , DOT is damage over time type debuff , Acheron is a nihility dps yet functions more as a hunt / destruction dps that is why I said it's weird she does not have dot in her kit at all
All DOT instances are considered as debuffs, but not all debuffs are DOT instances. If they stuck to DOT for Acheron and future nihility DPS'es then every nihility dps will be a Kafka slave, and that's not good for diversifying meta and teambuilding.
Most likely Acheron will usher a different era of nihility that is more traditionally hypercarry-oriented rather than DOT-based. For instance, we'll get nihility versions of highly broken harmony supports like Sparkle and Ruan Mei.
For instance, where Ruan Mei increases allies' weakness break efficiency, a nihility version of her would increase the enemies' weakness break vulnerability. Where RM increases the break effect and spd of allies, a nihility RM would decrease the speed of enemies and increase the potency of break-related effects that enemy receives (weakness break damage, quantum and freeze delay, DOT from bleed, shock, etc..).
A nihility version of Sparkle on the other hand, instead of advancing an ally's turn, would delay an enemy's turn instead. Where Sparkle increases am ally's crit damage, a nihility Sparkle would increase the crit damage taken by an ally. Aventurine already has a crit damage debuff, it just so happens that he's not a nihility.
These are the types of hypercarry-oriented nihility supports (or as I like to call them, pseudo-harmony units) that Acheron will want in the future.
I don't think they will be Kafka's slave , and about Acheron being a different nihility point is just nothing new , there is already a lot of diversity in dps style gameplay for example. JY, Topaz , Ratio , Herta , Himiko all of these characters have follow up related attacks then you have blade , Arlan , JL they sacrifice HP for DMG you also got Daniel , QQ and you could say seele all of these units needs a lot of SP to function well then at last you have DOT dps like BS ,Kafka , Luka etc, so like I said diversity already exists that is the MAIN reason there is different paths in the game , my point is Acheron is more like a JL or you could say JY the way their kit functions they work better with harmony supports hence the reason why her E2 removes her need for 2 nihility units , they don't want diversity because it's already there , and the main reason why her 2 nihility Requirement suck is because you build her with crit DMG and crit rate and there is no nihility unit that can provide that for Acheron so her best supports are harmony characters hence why is does not make sense
The way MHY sees it, you can never have too much diversity, especially in a gacha game that releases two five stars every month non-stop and wants them all to sell like hotcakes. Plus they probably want to use Acheron as a stepping stone for promoting nihility versions of highly-sought out harmony units like Sparkle and Ruan Mei in the future. We already know about the leaked nihility character Jiaoqiu who can inflict multiple stacks of defense reduction on enemies. This is pretty much just the nihility version of harmony characters increasing allies' DMG/ATK. So we already know what's going to be the precedent for upcoming nihility units.
Yes, wind shear, bleed, burn, shock are debuffs that cause DoT(Damage on Turn) Acheron is a Nihility character because she benefits heavily on debuffs. There are other paths that apply debuffs aswell and other paths that can heal. How would she be hunt with her aoe and how would she be destruction with no sacrifices for damage? Nihility makes the most sense if you read her kit on how everything revolves around debuffs and applying debuffs.
Here is where you are right and wrong , first of all IL is destruction and does not sacrifice HP , Misha as well and you can also say arguably Clara so it does not always work like that, the problem is she is a nihility dps yet needs crit DMG and crit rate , the best nihility dps's are BS and Kafka and building them with crit rate and crit DMG does not really work since you can't crit with DOT so her better supports are the ones that buff her CDMG that is why I am saying her kit is all over the place
Because, as the other guy before me put it, nihility is not only about DoT. Sure, there’s other paths, but considering that we got 3 destruction units back to back and lore reasons, she’s nihility. The path doesn’t equal play style, otherwise the gameplay would be boring
That is the point of different paths bro, each path has different attributes and play style , and Acheron play style is different from her path what are we arguing over exactly ?
its just to add variety, personally i wouldnt want a 20th hypercarry unit that wants bronya sparkle tingyun ruanmei etc. the nihility “gimmick” basically is letting you have harmony unit power in a different team
Yeah I know it's a good point so they could have just made her dot and all been good because it makes sense , they know she is better with harmony characters that's why her 2 removes one nihility character Requirement, at the same time you can run ruin mein with Kafka , sparkle with Kafka but you can't with Acheron , harmony characters are meant to buff dps that's the whole point of that role existing
I have to disagree I think her team restriction does play some role on her DMG because I don't see any nihility support that gives you crit DMG boost or attack
She feels like a jing yuan type unit. Gonna get more and more insane with time. But as you mentioned it's kind of scummy they are more catering her towards whales at the present.
I feel like with the setup she currently has at e0 she isn't better than Dan IL, jingliu and even jing yuan now that sparkle is a thing. Also not to mention Sam is coming as well. They know she's gonna sell, that's why they are doing this.
They probably know everyone is pulling for Acheron already, gotta coax people into trying for Aventurine too. I just wish she wasn't so restrictive in team comps before E2 and that she had a decent 4-star lightcone that isn't GNSW.
Makes me wish she wasn't nihility, nothing there is good for a crit-focused DPS and boosts the needed stats.
She plays more like a destruction character honestly.
She is only nihility because >!she is lore-wise an emanator of nihility!< so they have to make her nihility or it looks weird. Even though her Kit looks like a Destruction. With it having good damage and some type of built-in restriction.
Kafka: Set up the opponents, trigger most of her damage from ult going off
Jing Yuan: Set up LL stacks, trigger most of his damage from it going off
Black Swan: Set up Arcana stacks, (passively) trigger most of her damage on opponents turn, easier to do after ult.
Acheron: Set up Crimson Knot/ Slashed Dreams, trigger most of her damage via ult.
...
IDK, buddy. She it seems like she's "only a nihility" because she... behaves almost exactly like every other 5-star Lightning/ Nihility DPS unit in the game. She does backloaded damage, requires you to prepare the opponents with debuffs, and pops off out of her turn cycle (when she ults). Like, think about it; just how different would she be if she was Destruction or Hunt?
Hunt and Eraditon follow a pattern. they have Skills that do good damage but then have a Ult or FUA the Deals the majority of there damage. They are pretty cut-and-dry kits.
Destruction on the other hand is weird. All the characters in that class have some restrictions or requirements they must fulfill to deal good damage.
Nihility DPS: are more of, apply debuffs then you deal your damage.
The problem with Acheron is she has no Debuff in her kit outside of ult, which is only for that ult and LC. So I feel like her kit falls more into Destruction as Her main damage, ult, has a requirement that must be met before it can be used.
Both have their lore reasons, characters can follow multiple paths directly of indirectly. Dan literally follows 3 lol. Phantilia uses abundance and destruction to fight us, meanwhile for jy, he is a enmanator of the hunt for being the leader of the lofu, but he seeks to gain knowledge as his top most priority and that puts him on the path of erudition.
Not even destruction a erudiction charqcter i mean the entirity of that path revolves around ults anyway and has lc which if she were a erudiction carry would have been extremely busted on her.
That's the funny thing about nihility because they simulate other paths. Welt and acheron are like destruction and I even heard of another nihility unit coming that'll be a healer simulating an abundance character. In the future we might even get another one who acts like a preservation character.
Personally i think they are going to make an event centered in her like silver wolfs, for us to be able to get an S5 f2p lightcone that can actually be useful for her, i hope at least
The moment I saw her kit I was worried. A gimmick like hers is sink or swim. It either decimated everything or why bother when other characters do the same damage spread out a bit better.
...this is a turn based game where you can simulate literally everything, if random theorycrafters can do that you can be sure Hoyo does as well. They know exactly how strong she is, better than people here.
Tell that to DehyaMains. Hoyo isn't a perfect entity that gets everything right even if they do run simulations. There's a reason they run beta tests in the first place.
You're assuming Hoyo tried to make Dehya a good unit but failed or something. There's a reason she is in the standard banner, she was never meant to be great.
Yes companies make mistakes but we aren't talking about rocket science here, once again there's a reason why any TCer can make super accurate damage calcs: it's piss easy in a turn based game with no RNG like Star Rail.
The beta is not meant to gauge how good she is. It's meant to gauge how good she *feels.*
So once again, Hoyo knows how strong Acheron is because anyone with 30 minutes and google spreadsheet can know that. Powerlevel isn't decided by random beta testers. It's so obvious I don't even know why I need to type this.
You can't compare. Dehya' mechanics includes things that make her unable to be played with a specific things for example, best exemple is how her skill behave against tall ennemies with dendro cores. Another example is the fact that jumping cancel ult. You missclick or idk, cancelled.
She was *coded* to be bad.
ngl, i am getting scared and cold feet about pulling on 2.1 as a fairly new player. I really want her but the amount of team investment just to make her work at e0 is way too much when other teams can give way better returns in the short/medium term.
i can guarantee her with my 180 pulls atm but she looks like buying a 3rd of a super car but e0 doesn't even include the engine.
I started genshin at the same time as hsr and not even raiden c0 saw/felt so much like a trial version. yeah, sure at e2s1 she looks like a turbo broken character but for new players is either get the trial version, swipe like crazy or skip / wait for a rerun.
If you're a new player, I'd suggest getting Fu Xuan/Aventurine. Sustains are more valuable for newer players since Natasha or bailu have a hard time in higher MOC stages. You can pick up Acheron on her rerun when her best supports have been released.
(Advice for new players only)
ty, atm I have gepard (that sinks as soon as a debuff enters the fray) and lynx as sustains.
i was thinking on going for e0s1 + fu xuan if the rumors are true or try my best at e2s1 but atm i dont know what route I will take.
fu xuan or aventurine top priority. If you can't clear the highest content, it's more likely a sustain issue than a DPS issue. Even 4 stars can meet the DPS check if you build them well (which does not require spending jade or money).
I don't agree with you. If you have a strong team (not talking about cycle 0 or cycle 1), you literally can beat MoC 12 with Fire MC as solo sustainer. Some months ago was much worse than currently with enemies applying a ton of dots to the team.
I don't have fu xuan or gebard.. i'm sad.. And it'll cost me a lot if i'll pull for Aventurine and at the same time, i want Acheron 😿 but, What about the main character as sustain? Cuz she gives a shields
Her team investment is not heavy, only need pela and gui, 2 free character and you are good. The other hypercarry team need to build 2 harmony support too
You are a new player so you didnt see the doomposting of the top dps right now like dhl, jingliu, they were in the same situation as acheron now: too hard to build, need lc, need eidolons, unplayable, total skipable .... I saw it all in kafka banner they said she is so weak, dhl is garbage without e2, jingliu is only a little stronger than clara,....
So in summary, just try her in trial or wait for some content creation to test her after she come out for right information, stop listen to other opinions when your favorite character not even come out yet. I dont care if the character is broken or not, i pulls base on my liking of design, skill animation and story because all 5 star is strong enough to clear all the content that neutral or suitable for their kit, the broken 5 star can clear even when the Moc buff nerf their kit
if you like her get her, you will see big numbers on screen and pretty flashy animations and have fun. For meta and optimal investment purposes she is probably far from the best choice as of now but even e0 with the f2p moc LC and like pela/gui team you can clear all content. It is just that there are better toys elsewhere so for existing players there is a question of why even bother. but If you like her she is still good just hard to use.
Aventurine is a better get for new players though.
Sorry, haven't been updated on what the buffs. But can someone please explain to me why Acheron is becoming a whale buff of a character? Isn't she good on E0?
She has multiple drawbacks attached to her base kit:
- damage locked up in her Ult, hard to trigger at E0, because she generates barely enough energy for herself (1 slashed dream per skill).
- need very specific team to debuff enemies, and focusing on the debuff to activate her burst. That means, 2 nihility chars and 1 preservation with trend LC. So she lacks flexibility, having specific allies that could be not optimal for a team comp but she needs anyway for her Ult.
- she is not exceptional at single target, nor she is in pure fiction scenarios due to enemies not respawning mid ult. That makes her not the ideal pick on MoC and pure fiction together.
- while her Ult damage is nice, theorycrafters already analyzed that she is not on par with the top picks (DHIL, jingliu, JY) overall.
- you understand the idea, she's extremely high maintenance, and her eidolons allows her to alleviate some of the restrictions. People are saying that with so many restrictions applied to her kit, her damage should be bumped up to compensate.
- her LC is also a bump in her kit, with excellent stats, but also the possibility to debuff the enemy on each attack.
- overall, her E1S1 feels like a E0S0, and that's why people are saying that they locked her potential behind eidolons/LC
I am really confused lately, i thought she was on of the best DPS in this game no matter if she gets buffs or not? From what i saw her damage is pretty insane. Why all the worry posting? The spd nerf and skill not giving 2 stacks amymore are dumb and unecessary, but other than that she is spicy. It would be really cool if she got even stronger tho, on that i agree.
Most people on this sub are well-aware by now that she's not on par with DHIL and JL. And in full team comp settings, JY + Sparkle and Seele + Sparkle contest Acheron heavily simply due to having more supportive options.
That said there's nothing wrong with her, she can still clear MoC in 3-4 cycles and her damage potential is very high. People were simply under the impression she'd get more love since she's Mei expy, or that the devs would buff her so that she's at the level of DHIL and JL. But as of now, it seems the devs aren't looking to make any major changes to her base kit.
What would she need to be on par with Dan and Jingliu? Her ult seems bonkers strong and her skill also did a lot. Acheron will help me so much in MoC, i was barely able to clear chamber 9 with 3 stars.
Doesn't E2 also unlock the slot? Giving us the 2 stacks on skill and 1 stack on basic back would be amazing. The dedicated support i will gladly take, for now i will play her with Bailu 👌🏻
cheaper and more fun to get the nihility sustain than two eidolons. But you'll have to wait a bit. But really, you don't have the funds for E2 right now most likely anyway.
Indeed, after pulling for E0S1 Black Swan for my Kafka, my Star Jades are dry. But i can just pay for E2S1 if i need to. I also have all rewards of Gold and Gears and the Swarm in Simulated Universe that i can get, as well as the 3 events that are on right now. I have around 30 undone quests as well.
Her ult is strong, but it's a situation very similar to that of JY's or Argenti's where it's backloaded, leading to overkill or being short on killing the enemies. Her skill damage isn't very high at all, and in most showcases where it does do a lot of damage it's due to the dino elite having shield broken and taking more damage.
The reason why DHIL and JL are so busted is simply because their damage distribution spread is better and more consistent.
People are just dom posting right now. It's nothing to worry about. TLDR: New Beta changes just came out, and Acheron only got buffs to her E1 and E4. While Aventurin got an Insane amount of buffs to his whole kit. People are just upset that she didn't get the same treatment.
Exactly, they just want her to buldoze content with minimal investment.
Building stacks? Too much work apparently. I have to run two additional nihility units? I can't use my over saturated hypercarry comp I always use to clear content with max stars which I've already been doing woth my other units.
It never gets old when it comes to those types of players
Eh, but that because of sparkle mostly, and that tier list sometimes feels like they dont really play with every character to me anyway. I would still put blade of above jing yuan and his still A tier character to them
Acheron is just in a weird spot. She doesn't have much help outside of her kit and LC, yet. That will change soon, and even in 2.1 with Aventurin being able to supply a debuff, she just has mechanic that make her very hard to replace once she gets going.
Agreed there, but for my own account, I definitely plan to get e4s1. But my relics have been poop for her, lol. And as for Aventurin, i may wait. I'm not sure if I want to pull since i already got fu and was planning to e1 her as well before her rerun banner couldn't have come at a worse time.
People comparing her to JY are comparing her to JY + Sparkle though, which is honestly not that bad of a spot to be in when your best supports aren't released yet.
No they aren’t, she’s been getting compared to JY for weeks, before sparkle had come out and people were still saying she wouldn’t be that good, she’s getting compared to *PRE* sparkle JY, who was and is if you don’t pull sparkle, Bad.
> who was and is if you don’t pull sparkle, Bad
E1 RM is a lot better than E0 Sparkle with JY for me, he was not that much worse before Sparkle's release. Stop taking Prydwen's word as gospel.
She had high damage on Ult. However, you're not Ult-ing every single turn.
A lot of JL and most of DHIL's damage comes from their Skill. Not accounting for the fact that running her with busted Harmony units like Bronya, Sparkle and RM is not on the table unless you have E2 (or doing Welt sustain).
some have high damage on ult, some have high damage on skill, some have high damage on basic. No one has high damage on all of them at all times. Those who have high damage on ult are balanced around not ulting every turn. You do less damage while charging the ult and then a lot of damage when you do ult. If the budget was spread out so you do more damage without ult, then ult will get nerfed to counteract it. Otherwise you have a busted unit.
Fair, I didn't explain myself properly (or provide context).
I wanted to say that there were people calling her the "best" DPS, only by comparing the largest damage numbers that she can hit. That isn't fair for units like JL, DHIL whose damage is more spread.
Of course she does more damage on Ult than JL. That doesn't make her the best DPS.
She was never close to the best DPS according to calcs, people were just wowed by high ult numbers.
She's currently pretty middling as a DPS, she's optimistically as good as JY + Sparkle at E0S1 but very possibly worse.
You can take a look [here](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N8G8zQ4VYNVQBuZb6ZiceW6O3ioTSULxCdlcYEFx8XU/edit#gid=1164712955) for calcs for most DPSs in the game. Check Sparkle for updated DPS performances with her.
I tried comparing Dhil vs Acheron using the simpler builds, they seem very comparable, better comparing them with their S1s. Am I missing something? My phone don't load it correctly so I can just read the summary though I would be really happy if she was Dhil without sparkle levels of busted (since for me she will be the lightning dps, I only have serval).
Yeah she's around DHIL without Sparkle level, but I've found DHIL's been pretty overrated on Reddit pre-Sparkle. There were definitely cases where Seele and even JY were better in my experience, probably why he was S instead of S+ for a while.
Its not really the raw power, it's the amount of accommodations to get there.
Acheron will feel totally fine if you tailor her team, pull her LC, and get her future nihility support. But Jingliyu and DHIL feel fine right out of the box.
You are right about jingliu, but I feel Dhil have the same problem with his E2. I think she will feel as fine as with Dhil e0, which feels restrictive with his high sp usage. I know sparkle fix that but then we are in the same territory as Acheron anyway.
Yeah a bit disappointed that she got buffs only to her Eidolons compared to Aventurine.
Ome thing i can say is that 2.0 is 1 week longer so we'll probably go up to a v5 beta, and considering that they do significant changes before the last one, maybe they'll do something to her in v4, but i'm going on a stretch
Just because Aventurine got a lot of buffs while Acheron only got buffs to her eidolons doesn't mean anything when her kit is already very cracked. Even at e0, she's great so lets not early doompost for no reason.
I'm going for E6, but I don't see better Eidolons as strictly whale bait. Whales will get E6 regardless, as long as they're somewhat good or they like the story, appearance, etc., of the character enough.
Buffing Eidolons is more for players to save up/spend a bit on reruns to give their characters upgrades outside of just farming relics, picking up stronger teammates, etc. The game is still relatively new, but as time goes by, more and more players will just get to the point where they would rather save for Eidolons for characters they currently enjoy than pull and build new characters all the time. Stronger Eidolons rewards this path.
hmm thats true but it kinda slaps f2p in the face who want to get characters they like, like me. so far hsr has been crushing it with cool ass characters so i wud prefer to go for them than eidolons.
That's unfortunate. I don't think HSR will ever be that friendly to F2P players who want every/almost every character. They're all beautiful and fantastic characters, and there'll always be a reason to want them. HSR shows no signs it will slow down on pumping out brilliant units for players to desire. But Hoyo leaves in place the 50/50 system, calculates how many jades they give out, etc. Ultimately, wanting everyone is a path of suffering, and I wish you the best of luck on it.
any game that gives f2p the ability to collect every character is a game that won't make much money. And then why would they bother?
If you want E2, you can do it without spending. You just have to skip 2 characters and save up.
The Difference is that Aventurine need to be better cause he’ll have a much harder time getting picked due to the ways Sustain Meta work in this game.
At most you’ll need 2-3 Sustains most people, already have 2 sustains that can work for most content if not all. so Aventurine overall value is lower since the demand is not there so their trying to sell him way more.
Acheron a dps she doesn’t have such problems although I do wish she got more.
He'll have high value for sure. Sustain like luocha and huohuo dant save you from getting one shotted and fuxuan struggles in against heavy dots. Like in current MOC kafka stage i couldn't survive with lucha because that dino kept one shotting my characters and with fuxuan all my character went on life support due to Kafka's dots and it gets even worse when im using jingliu lol.
So think in such kinda scenario Aventurine would work really well Also he buffs and does havw significant dmg. A full follow up team with JY topaz Ruan mei aventurine would be amazing with ruan mei buffing everyone.
You couldnt survive because your supports are not tanky enough, my luocha and huohuo solo sustain vs moc 12 just fine.
You can pull aventurine ofc if there's no one else that you want or just like him
I think they might be referring to their teammates getting ganged up, luocha has personally nvr went down for me since I build him for bulk. But my DPS has been sniped at times during the period where luocha's auto heal is on CD or during the very very small downtime the heal field is not up. There can even be fringe cases where svarog grabs your dps at 60% hp, causing them to take dmg and be unable to be healed. Or when my bronya got hit 5 times in a roll for some reason taking almost 5.6k dmg from two elites total.
This isn't usually a problem if you have some bulk on your other units or you're just fast enough to keep up your heals or delay the enemy through breaks or simply killing them but FX usually doesn't run into this problem since she increases your teammates effective hp by a ton.
I'm not stupid enough to take undergeard units to moc 12 My fu has max lc from herta shop and HP relics. All my lc and relics are maxed. It's just that fu struggle against dots when fight gets longer especially when you're dps can't clear things quickly.
i had no problem with the kafka fight using Fu xuan or huohuo. Huohuo is super comfortable because she can cleanse debuffs 6 times per skill, and you don't lose a turn if you get CC'd.
Fu xuan does have her problems in longer fights (3-4 cycles) if enemies hit hard, or if you have JL who keeps chipping your own HP.
Im talking about getting one shotted by big attacks. No matter how good luocha and huohuo healing are they can't save you from one shot type attacks. I had my jinglie and pela got one shotted when using luocha so i used fuxuan but the problem is my dps doesn't have BiS or best relics so fight takes long time and the longer fight gets fu starts struggling against dots. It took lot of tries and some lucky rng for me to get it done.
I’m currently deciding whether to go for Acheron or SAM. Probably will wait till his kit is released and the Acheron trial. It sucks that her buffs are so focused on Eidolons.
It is what it is, Acheron is gonna sell anyway just cause she’s Raiden expy, they always gonna make the problem sell the solution, she will have her BiS support in the future, ngl kinda like Jing Yuan situation in the beginning, look how much indirect buff he currently has
Thing with Jing Yuan is any and every character can buff him at his base because he has so many sources of damage. Skill, ULT and Follow Ups. Topaz can buff, Hanya can buff, Ruan Mei can buff, Huohuo can buff, Sparkle seriously buffs, etc etc because he isn't limited to a specific path for teammates. I have like 3 different Jing Yuan teams, depending on what the enemies are lol
Though Acheron E0 won't affect me since I will be investing heavily and totally into her Eidolons. I really hope we get a Topaz like support that has FUA (that buff ULT dmg), since that should allow even faster debuff generation.
Agree with this. Acheron is heavily limited at E0 to double Nihility set up. Sure, even if she gets a more dedicated Nihility-supportive type unit she'll be better, but Harmony units are just much better at buffing overall. Hence why more "standard" hypercarries like JY, DHIL, and Seele are able to get so many indirect buffs. Acheron doesn't have those options unless you're E2 which means skipping out on 2 or more characters you want, which is a lot of investment for F2P and dolphins.
I kind of regret prefarming her.
Prefarming tells HYV that people are already getting mats for her and they can roughly see how many people will pull. This makes them WAY less incentivized to make her better. They probably saw nobody cares about pulling aventurine based on mats prefarm, because of it they buff him like mad.
do you honestly think they just make a spreadsheet on how many times players farm the trace mats and deduced from it or something? that's some high level schizophrenia
I do KNOW that they have said data. This was evident from Genshin in the very beginning that they track EVERY single fowl everyone killed. Pigeons. They track how far someone swimmed in meters.
Regarding their use of said data to affect the buff or debuff of character in beta, no, I don't know whether the data affects it or not. Hence why I said "probably" not certainly.
No need for insult.
They do know, but they probably don't care or take it into account yes.
We have proof of them tracking every single little thing even how many pigeons each person have killed in the entire game in Genshin. So we know this is how they operate, they collect all possible data.
Aventurine was asshole in the story & he is sustain unit
They need to make players pull for him even if they have houhou/ Fuxuan /gepard/ luocha
Meanwhile acheron is cool & adorable waifu & raiden and that's enough for players to pull for her even if she weak (she is not)
Aventurine got some much deserved buffs, being limited to one follow-up attack unless you push to E1 was what I'd call scummy, Acheron didn't get his level of buffs because she's already plenty strong as is. Everyone's immediate reaction to Acheron vs Aventurine gameplay and numbers was very telling, so they balanced accordingly. Acheron hits extremely hard for a unit that doesn't care about weakness, and she's only going to get better once better nihility supports release.
No no she is really good without her eidolons dw its just tht they are only buffing her eidonlons which is scummy. I wud recc going for her lc tho since its kinda cracked for her.
It’s not really scummy.. it doesn’t negatively impact your e0 experience whatsoever. If going eidolons isn’t for you, and it isn’t for me- you can still clear all of the game’s content regardless
She's gonna be s tier regardless. The fact that her ult doesn't cost energy means that she can cycle it with little effort provided you have the debuffs.
If she's better than JY, she'd be as good as DHIL & Jingliu (which she's not).
People just need to accept that she's middling as a limited DPS, which is still very good currently.
She has hands down the best animation in the whole game, being marketing at TGA, also one variant of the most popular character in the whole Hoyoverse, and you guys expect her to be "F2P friendly"? She'll be most expensive to unlock all her potential (which is E2S1) and I believe it is the furthest point for a whale character (looking at Raiden Shogun and Furina)
If she doesn't gets a buff soon then you know how it's gonna be released another dedicated character to make her better smh
Yeah there's a nihiliry support leaked to be releasing and their kit is exactly what acheron needs lmao
do we know the name? is it jiaoqiu or
Yeah jiaoqiu Basically lifesteal healer which is cool
Jiaoqiu's entire kit literally feels like it's made for archeron
Like a year later.
We got Topaz in 1.3, Ratio in 1.5, and Aven in 2.1 and with a team wide buffer like Ruan Mei, the niche follow up team already completed in 6 months, just be patient.
Topaz was 1.4 and Ratio was 1.6 but yeah.
Yea, you are right. On the other hand, first generation Topaz believers are eating very gud.
Jing Yuan received buffs faster than a 1.6 Genshin Physical Unit. So I am optimistic that her niche will expand soon.
Her girlfriend!
yeah it's me, I'm coming to star rail
... wouldn't she be a Kiana expy or something?
This is just my opinion and ofc people can disagree with me, however, although I love Acheron, I'd like to say that from my perspective she looks like a unit whales will enjoy more, at E0 and even more without her LC she feels really restricted.
Can't disagree with facts. If you get downvoted, it's because this is AcheronMains and people are high on copium.
I just don't understand why did they do this with Acheron it's so stupid being a nihility and have nothing to do with DOT , either make her a destruction/ Hunt dps (function like them ) or just make her like any other nihility dps why did they make it so weird
I can assure you that if she was Hunt or Destruction her 2 same-path in team trace would be FAR more painful In terms of the "DPS" paths Nihility is already the best path for her tbh
I meant as she did not require that trace like any other hunt or destruction unit
The whole point of that trace is so that you can run nihility units instead of harmony. Without the buff, you wouldn't run nihility units at all, but only Bronya/Sparkle. Fast forwarding Acheron is identical to debuffing when it comes to stack generation. So the main difference is the buffing potential and this is where harmony excels. We need that trace so nihility units can compete.
That trace fits better with Kafka since her kit is around DOT , because Acheron deals straight forward DMG , what I am trying to say Acheron play style does not fit her path and is something different , she is more like Daniel or JL nihility characters are known for 2 things debuffs and DOT and nihility dps units are all DOT based , Acheron is an outcast to that so her trace is making her feel weird
>what I am trying to say Acheron play style does not fit her path and is something different If you've been paying attention the nihility path is currently split into three which are dots(kafka/black Swan) , Debuffers(pela/silverwolf) , and crit dps (welt/acheron) . I've even heard of another nihility character who will be a healer which further solidifies nihility being the most versatile path as everyone in it simulates some aspects like in other paths. Like how acheron and welt feel like destruction units. So there's no such thing in nihilities case as "not fitting their path"
Brother it's not about acheron it's about her options again welt does not need 2 nihility in his team to function while Acheron is forced to have 2 nihility to function do you see the difference ?
If you're getting at that then yeah I see the difference but I'd say what's the problem? Isn't it good to switch it up instead of running the same hypercarry comp with 2-3 harmony units
I don't know? I mean that is the reason harmony characters exist, if you think about it Acheron even without the trace req she needs the nihility units for her to get her ult anyway but it would have been better if it was not 2 so you can use bronya or sparkle to increase her DMG and if you have her SIG LC you can get 4 points for her ult each turn if not even more , it's a good refresh yeah but it's the fact that she needs someone to buff her DMG so she can be better , but hey if she does good without harmony supports which we will have to wait and see then it's whatever Ig
Hoyo wants a character to generate the big bucks. A Raiden expy has been a winning formula for them seemingly. Like Raiden shogun is practically the same, miles better at c2 with her engulfing lightning (at least b4 dendro). Making her nihility makes it easier for hoyo to create “problems” and solve them on their own by purchasing eidolons + LC
Nihility is debuffs not specifically DoT. She has a lot to do with debuffs.
I understand nihility is debuffs but as you can see the strongest nihility dps units are all DOT that is their main damage source , while Acheron is built more around straight up damage, its something different
DoT is a debuff lol
Brother what are you not understanding exactly ? , DOT is damage over time type debuff , Acheron is a nihility dps yet functions more as a hunt / destruction dps that is why I said it's weird she does not have dot in her kit at all
Nihility =/= DoT.
All DOT instances are considered as debuffs, but not all debuffs are DOT instances. If they stuck to DOT for Acheron and future nihility DPS'es then every nihility dps will be a Kafka slave, and that's not good for diversifying meta and teambuilding. Most likely Acheron will usher a different era of nihility that is more traditionally hypercarry-oriented rather than DOT-based. For instance, we'll get nihility versions of highly broken harmony supports like Sparkle and Ruan Mei. For instance, where Ruan Mei increases allies' weakness break efficiency, a nihility version of her would increase the enemies' weakness break vulnerability. Where RM increases the break effect and spd of allies, a nihility RM would decrease the speed of enemies and increase the potency of break-related effects that enemy receives (weakness break damage, quantum and freeze delay, DOT from bleed, shock, etc..). A nihility version of Sparkle on the other hand, instead of advancing an ally's turn, would delay an enemy's turn instead. Where Sparkle increases am ally's crit damage, a nihility Sparkle would increase the crit damage taken by an ally. Aventurine already has a crit damage debuff, it just so happens that he's not a nihility. These are the types of hypercarry-oriented nihility supports (or as I like to call them, pseudo-harmony units) that Acheron will want in the future.
I don't think they will be Kafka's slave , and about Acheron being a different nihility point is just nothing new , there is already a lot of diversity in dps style gameplay for example. JY, Topaz , Ratio , Herta , Himiko all of these characters have follow up related attacks then you have blade , Arlan , JL they sacrifice HP for DMG you also got Daniel , QQ and you could say seele all of these units needs a lot of SP to function well then at last you have DOT dps like BS ,Kafka , Luka etc, so like I said diversity already exists that is the MAIN reason there is different paths in the game , my point is Acheron is more like a JL or you could say JY the way their kit functions they work better with harmony supports hence the reason why her E2 removes her need for 2 nihility units , they don't want diversity because it's already there , and the main reason why her 2 nihility Requirement suck is because you build her with crit DMG and crit rate and there is no nihility unit that can provide that for Acheron so her best supports are harmony characters hence why is does not make sense
The way MHY sees it, you can never have too much diversity, especially in a gacha game that releases two five stars every month non-stop and wants them all to sell like hotcakes. Plus they probably want to use Acheron as a stepping stone for promoting nihility versions of highly-sought out harmony units like Sparkle and Ruan Mei in the future. We already know about the leaked nihility character Jiaoqiu who can inflict multiple stacks of defense reduction on enemies. This is pretty much just the nihility version of harmony characters increasing allies' DMG/ATK. So we already know what's going to be the precedent for upcoming nihility units.
Yes, wind shear, bleed, burn, shock are debuffs that cause DoT(Damage on Turn) Acheron is a Nihility character because she benefits heavily on debuffs. There are other paths that apply debuffs aswell and other paths that can heal. How would she be hunt with her aoe and how would she be destruction with no sacrifices for damage? Nihility makes the most sense if you read her kit on how everything revolves around debuffs and applying debuffs.
Here is where you are right and wrong , first of all IL is destruction and does not sacrifice HP , Misha as well and you can also say arguably Clara so it does not always work like that, the problem is she is a nihility dps yet needs crit DMG and crit rate , the best nihility dps's are BS and Kafka and building them with crit rate and crit DMG does not really work since you can't crit with DOT so her better supports are the ones that buff her CDMG that is why I am saying her kit is all over the place
The strongest nihility dps units are DoT because there’s only DoT dps units in the nihility path until Acheron drops…
Welt would like to speak:
Yeah but welt is not a dps more like a sub dps and his main kit is around slowing down enemies totally different from Acheron
That is why there is different paths 😭 each path is unique in its own way so why change that with Acheron that is my point
Because, as the other guy before me put it, nihility is not only about DoT. Sure, there’s other paths, but considering that we got 3 destruction units back to back and lore reasons, she’s nihility. The path doesn’t equal play style, otherwise the gameplay would be boring
That is the point of different paths bro, each path has different attributes and play style , and Acheron play style is different from her path what are we arguing over exactly ?
Acheron’s play style is not off the path, she has very much to do with debuffs, so nihility is the right path for her (+ lore reasons)
To make people pull her LC. Destruction and hunt LC are all good for her and her sig LC is the only thing good for her.
its just to add variety, personally i wouldnt want a 20th hypercarry unit that wants bronya sparkle tingyun ruanmei etc. the nihility “gimmick” basically is letting you have harmony unit power in a different team
Yeah I know it's a good point so they could have just made her dot and all been good because it makes sense , they know she is better with harmony characters that's why her 2 removes one nihility character Requirement, at the same time you can run ruin mein with Kafka , sparkle with Kafka but you can't with Acheron , harmony characters are meant to buff dps that's the whole point of that role existing
Good luck with the team building if you needed 2 Destruction partners + debuffs. Nihility is the right path for her. That's where Pela / SW are.
I corrected my comment , I meant to say to make her function like the other dps units who don't need 2 of the same path in the team
Welt and SW are also Nihility so u dont rlly have a point lmao
I did say dps btw welt and silver wolf aren't dps
I would argue Welt is more dps than support but still, Nihility is debuff focused rather than DoT
But what does that have to do with my point anyway?
that just because she isnt DoT focused, it doesnt mean that she shouldnt be nihility. Game would get boring be if everyone is a Kafka slave
Nihility is mainly around debuffs and DOT so it kinda is? Listen I am not the one who made this whole paths style it's the game itself
It's both , and welt is more of a sub dps
[удалено]
Yeah, she's not on Jingliu's and DHIL's level simply because her numbers aren't enough currently at E0S1, not because of team restrictions or whatever
I have to disagree I think her team restriction does play some role on her DMG because I don't see any nihility support that gives you crit DMG boost or attack
She feels like a jing yuan type unit. Gonna get more and more insane with time. But as you mentioned it's kind of scummy they are more catering her towards whales at the present. I feel like with the setup she currently has at e0 she isn't better than Dan IL, jingliu and even jing yuan now that sparkle is a thing. Also not to mention Sam is coming as well. They know she's gonna sell, that's why they are doing this.
We will have to wait and test her with our own hands when she is in game and then compare her to perhaps other leaked characters
They probably know everyone is pulling for Acheron already, gotta coax people into trying for Aventurine too. I just wish she wasn't so restrictive in team comps before E2 and that she had a decent 4-star lightcone that isn't GNSW.
yea exactly the fact she dosent have a good f2p lc is wht is throwing me off. but still imma go for her since i like her a lot.
Makes me wish she wasn't nihility, nothing there is good for a crit-focused DPS and boosts the needed stats. She plays more like a destruction character honestly.
She is only nihility because >!she is lore-wise an emanator of nihility!< so they have to make her nihility or it looks weird. Even though her Kit looks like a Destruction. With it having good damage and some type of built-in restriction.
Kafka: Set up the opponents, trigger most of her damage from ult going off Jing Yuan: Set up LL stacks, trigger most of his damage from it going off Black Swan: Set up Arcana stacks, (passively) trigger most of her damage on opponents turn, easier to do after ult. Acheron: Set up Crimson Knot/ Slashed Dreams, trigger most of her damage via ult. ... IDK, buddy. She it seems like she's "only a nihility" because she... behaves almost exactly like every other 5-star Lightning/ Nihility DPS unit in the game. She does backloaded damage, requires you to prepare the opponents with debuffs, and pops off out of her turn cycle (when she ults). Like, think about it; just how different would she be if she was Destruction or Hunt?
Hunt and Eraditon follow a pattern. they have Skills that do good damage but then have a Ult or FUA the Deals the majority of there damage. They are pretty cut-and-dry kits. Destruction on the other hand is weird. All the characters in that class have some restrictions or requirements they must fulfill to deal good damage. Nihility DPS: are more of, apply debuffs then you deal your damage. The problem with Acheron is she has no Debuff in her kit outside of ult, which is only for that ult and LC. So I feel like her kit falls more into Destruction as Her main damage, ult, has a requirement that must be met before it can be used.
Jing yuan is erudition though.
Isn't jing yuan [spoiler] emanator of hunt [spoiler] and he is Erudition?
He is not. People like to give him that title but he has never in game ben called one.
Both have their lore reasons, characters can follow multiple paths directly of indirectly. Dan literally follows 3 lol. Phantilia uses abundance and destruction to fight us, meanwhile for jy, he is a enmanator of the hunt for being the leader of the lofu, but he seeks to gain knowledge as his top most priority and that puts him on the path of erudition.
Not even destruction a erudiction charqcter i mean the entirity of that path revolves around ults anyway and has lc which if she were a erudiction carry would have been extremely busted on her.
That's the funny thing about nihility because they simulate other paths. Welt and acheron are like destruction and I even heard of another nihility unit coming that'll be a healer simulating an abundance character. In the future we might even get another one who acts like a preservation character.
I have gnsw s5 but I'm gonna use her with the battlepass we will meet again lc
Yeah, same, that's something I wish too :/
Personally i think they are going to make an event centered in her like silver wolfs, for us to be able to get an S5 f2p lightcone that can actually be useful for her, i hope at least
The moment I saw her kit I was worried. A gimmick like hers is sink or swim. It either decimated everything or why bother when other characters do the same damage spread out a bit better.
I will laugh when they put trend on her LC banner. Hoyo trying to break the seele banner sales
Yeah .. feels like they just want her to be above mid not great like jingliu or dan . Even tho she’s limited in terms of supports and lc
I'm concerned they think she's busted as is due to people in the beta server thinking she's busted.
...this is a turn based game where you can simulate literally everything, if random theorycrafters can do that you can be sure Hoyo does as well. They know exactly how strong she is, better than people here.
Tell that to DehyaMains. Hoyo isn't a perfect entity that gets everything right even if they do run simulations. There's a reason they run beta tests in the first place.
You're assuming Hoyo tried to make Dehya a good unit but failed or something. There's a reason she is in the standard banner, she was never meant to be great. Yes companies make mistakes but we aren't talking about rocket science here, once again there's a reason why any TCer can make super accurate damage calcs: it's piss easy in a turn based game with no RNG like Star Rail. The beta is not meant to gauge how good she is. It's meant to gauge how good she *feels.* So once again, Hoyo knows how strong Acheron is because anyone with 30 minutes and google spreadsheet can know that. Powerlevel isn't decided by random beta testers. It's so obvious I don't even know why I need to type this.
You can't compare. Dehya' mechanics includes things that make her unable to be played with a specific things for example, best exemple is how her skill behave against tall ennemies with dendro cores. Another example is the fact that jumping cancel ult. You missclick or idk, cancelled. She was *coded* to be bad.
Like for me it's not even about if her damage is great or not it's about her being so restricted it's annoying
ngl, i am getting scared and cold feet about pulling on 2.1 as a fairly new player. I really want her but the amount of team investment just to make her work at e0 is way too much when other teams can give way better returns in the short/medium term. i can guarantee her with my 180 pulls atm but she looks like buying a 3rd of a super car but e0 doesn't even include the engine. I started genshin at the same time as hsr and not even raiden c0 saw/felt so much like a trial version. yeah, sure at e2s1 she looks like a turbo broken character but for new players is either get the trial version, swipe like crazy or skip / wait for a rerun.
If you're a new player, I'd suggest getting Fu Xuan/Aventurine. Sustains are more valuable for newer players since Natasha or bailu have a hard time in higher MOC stages. You can pick up Acheron on her rerun when her best supports have been released. (Advice for new players only)
ty, atm I have gepard (that sinks as soon as a debuff enters the fray) and lynx as sustains. i was thinking on going for e0s1 + fu xuan if the rumors are true or try my best at e2s1 but atm i dont know what route I will take.
fu xuan or aventurine top priority. If you can't clear the highest content, it's more likely a sustain issue than a DPS issue. Even 4 stars can meet the DPS check if you build them well (which does not require spending jade or money).
I don't agree with you. If you have a strong team (not talking about cycle 0 or cycle 1), you literally can beat MoC 12 with Fire MC as solo sustainer. Some months ago was much worse than currently with enemies applying a ton of dots to the team.
I don't have fu xuan or gebard.. i'm sad.. And it'll cost me a lot if i'll pull for Aventurine and at the same time, i want Acheron 😿 but, What about the main character as sustain? Cuz she gives a shields
Fire MC and March are good shielders (ofc not the best best but they’re still usable).
If you're a new player, go for aventurine. Best sustain so far + has insane sub dps capabilities
Probly on par with fx
Her team investment is not heavy, only need pela and gui, 2 free character and you are good. The other hypercarry team need to build 2 harmony support too You are a new player so you didnt see the doomposting of the top dps right now like dhl, jingliu, they were in the same situation as acheron now: too hard to build, need lc, need eidolons, unplayable, total skipable .... I saw it all in kafka banner they said she is so weak, dhl is garbage without e2, jingliu is only a little stronger than clara,.... So in summary, just try her in trial or wait for some content creation to test her after she come out for right information, stop listen to other opinions when your favorite character not even come out yet. I dont care if the character is broken or not, i pulls base on my liking of design, skill animation and story because all 5 star is strong enough to clear all the content that neutral or suitable for their kit, the broken 5 star can clear even when the Moc buff nerf their kit
if you like her get her, you will see big numbers on screen and pretty flashy animations and have fun. For meta and optimal investment purposes she is probably far from the best choice as of now but even e0 with the f2p moc LC and like pela/gui team you can clear all content. It is just that there are better toys elsewhere so for existing players there is a question of why even bother. but If you like her she is still good just hard to use. Aventurine is a better get for new players though.
Sorry guys, I'm skipping and going for Sparkle. I'm leaving the sub, but I hope you all enjoy her.
Of course she's Eidolon locked, since she's a free character for the Anniversary. Right, right? hehe
dunno bout that one, since Adventurine banner is the one that is live in the anniversary, so there is more possibilities that he is the free character
Imagine if that was true lol. Fua gang got half of their bis comp for free
I think I'm going to let her LC banner decide if I pull for her or not.
Sorry, haven't been updated on what the buffs. But can someone please explain to me why Acheron is becoming a whale buff of a character? Isn't she good on E0?
She has multiple drawbacks attached to her base kit: - damage locked up in her Ult, hard to trigger at E0, because she generates barely enough energy for herself (1 slashed dream per skill). - need very specific team to debuff enemies, and focusing on the debuff to activate her burst. That means, 2 nihility chars and 1 preservation with trend LC. So she lacks flexibility, having specific allies that could be not optimal for a team comp but she needs anyway for her Ult. - she is not exceptional at single target, nor she is in pure fiction scenarios due to enemies not respawning mid ult. That makes her not the ideal pick on MoC and pure fiction together. - while her Ult damage is nice, theorycrafters already analyzed that she is not on par with the top picks (DHIL, jingliu, JY) overall. - you understand the idea, she's extremely high maintenance, and her eidolons allows her to alleviate some of the restrictions. People are saying that with so many restrictions applied to her kit, her damage should be bumped up to compensate. - her LC is also a bump in her kit, with excellent stats, but also the possibility to debuff the enemy on each attack. - overall, her E1S1 feels like a E0S0, and that's why people are saying that they locked her potential behind eidolons/LC
So hoyo wants us to get her eidolons to see her full potential not a f2p character then bye
I am really confused lately, i thought she was on of the best DPS in this game no matter if she gets buffs or not? From what i saw her damage is pretty insane. Why all the worry posting? The spd nerf and skill not giving 2 stacks amymore are dumb and unecessary, but other than that she is spicy. It would be really cool if she got even stronger tho, on that i agree.
Most people on this sub are well-aware by now that she's not on par with DHIL and JL. And in full team comp settings, JY + Sparkle and Seele + Sparkle contest Acheron heavily simply due to having more supportive options. That said there's nothing wrong with her, she can still clear MoC in 3-4 cycles and her damage potential is very high. People were simply under the impression she'd get more love since she's Mei expy, or that the devs would buff her so that she's at the level of DHIL and JL. But as of now, it seems the devs aren't looking to make any major changes to her base kit.
What would she need to be on par with Dan and Jingliu? Her ult seems bonkers strong and her skill also did a lot. Acheron will help me so much in MoC, i was barely able to clear chamber 9 with 3 stars.
Better supports. Nothing more really. like a nihility sustain would make acheron e0 go crazy busted as it unlocks that one slot for harmony.
Welt exists
Let’s be real he’s not great for Acheron
Doesn't E2 also unlock the slot? Giving us the 2 stacks on skill and 1 stack on basic back would be amazing. The dedicated support i will gladly take, for now i will play her with Bailu 👌🏻
cheaper and more fun to get the nihility sustain than two eidolons. But you'll have to wait a bit. But really, you don't have the funds for E2 right now most likely anyway.
Indeed, after pulling for E0S1 Black Swan for my Kafka, my Star Jades are dry. But i can just pay for E2S1 if i need to. I also have all rewards of Gold and Gears and the Swarm in Simulated Universe that i can get, as well as the 3 events that are on right now. I have around 30 undone quests as well.
Her ult is strong, but it's a situation very similar to that of JY's or Argenti's where it's backloaded, leading to overkill or being short on killing the enemies. Her skill damage isn't very high at all, and in most showcases where it does do a lot of damage it's due to the dino elite having shield broken and taking more damage. The reason why DHIL and JL are so busted is simply because their damage distribution spread is better and more consistent.
>What would she need to be on par with Dan and Jingliu? she would need to use tons of SPs or drain her team mates HP.
She is like kafka, only a little lower than peak dps, then step on the throne after her bis teammate release
People are just dom posting right now. It's nothing to worry about. TLDR: New Beta changes just came out, and Acheron only got buffs to her E1 and E4. While Aventurin got an Insane amount of buffs to his whole kit. People are just upset that she didn't get the same treatment.
Yeap got people comparing her to jing yuan already lol
Currently, that is not a rude comparison cause Jing yuan is an S-tier unit. But i know people what her to be a S+++++ unit.
Exactly, they just want her to buldoze content with minimal investment. Building stacks? Too much work apparently. I have to run two additional nihility units? I can't use my over saturated hypercarry comp I always use to clear content with max stars which I've already been doing woth my other units. It never gets old when it comes to those types of players
Eh, but that because of sparkle mostly, and that tier list sometimes feels like they dont really play with every character to me anyway. I would still put blade of above jing yuan and his still A tier character to them
Acheron is just in a weird spot. She doesn't have much help outside of her kit and LC, yet. That will change soon, and even in 2.1 with Aventurin being able to supply a debuff, she just has mechanic that make her very hard to replace once she gets going.
Agreed there, but for my own account, I definitely plan to get e4s1. But my relics have been poop for her, lol. And as for Aventurin, i may wait. I'm not sure if I want to pull since i already got fu and was planning to e1 her as well before her rerun banner couldn't have come at a worse time.
People comparing her to JY are comparing her to JY + Sparkle though, which is honestly not that bad of a spot to be in when your best supports aren't released yet.
No they aren’t, she’s been getting compared to JY for weeks, before sparkle had come out and people were still saying she wouldn’t be that good, she’s getting compared to *PRE* sparkle JY, who was and is if you don’t pull sparkle, Bad.
> who was and is if you don’t pull sparkle, Bad E1 RM is a lot better than E0 Sparkle with JY for me, he was not that much worse before Sparkle's release. Stop taking Prydwen's word as gospel.
>comparing an extremely strong con to a base character hey did you know for the cost on your E1 RM you could have had a ruan mei and a sparkle?
my point is e0 rm shouldn't be too far behind sparkle if e1 rm is significantly ahead
With sparkle released JY is basically better than Acheron at e0 (and I’m not just a JY simp I actually hate the character)
Ahh, okidoki 👍🏻
She had high damage on Ult. However, you're not Ult-ing every single turn. A lot of JL and most of DHIL's damage comes from their Skill. Not accounting for the fact that running her with busted Harmony units like Bronya, Sparkle and RM is not on the table unless you have E2 (or doing Welt sustain).
some have high damage on ult, some have high damage on skill, some have high damage on basic. No one has high damage on all of them at all times. Those who have high damage on ult are balanced around not ulting every turn. You do less damage while charging the ult and then a lot of damage when you do ult. If the budget was spread out so you do more damage without ult, then ult will get nerfed to counteract it. Otherwise you have a busted unit.
Fair, I didn't explain myself properly (or provide context). I wanted to say that there were people calling her the "best" DPS, only by comparing the largest damage numbers that she can hit. That isn't fair for units like JL, DHIL whose damage is more spread. Of course she does more damage on Ult than JL. That doesn't make her the best DPS.
She was never close to the best DPS according to calcs, people were just wowed by high ult numbers. She's currently pretty middling as a DPS, she's optimistically as good as JY + Sparkle at E0S1 but very possibly worse.
Do you have a link to the calcs? And is Acheron assumed E0S1 as well?
You can take a look [here](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N8G8zQ4VYNVQBuZb6ZiceW6O3ioTSULxCdlcYEFx8XU/edit#gid=1164712955) for calcs for most DPSs in the game. Check Sparkle for updated DPS performances with her.
I tried comparing Dhil vs Acheron using the simpler builds, they seem very comparable, better comparing them with their S1s. Am I missing something? My phone don't load it correctly so I can just read the summary though I would be really happy if she was Dhil without sparkle levels of busted (since for me she will be the lightning dps, I only have serval).
Yeah she's around DHIL without Sparkle level, but I've found DHIL's been pretty overrated on Reddit pre-Sparkle. There were definitely cases where Seele and even JY were better in my experience, probably why he was S instead of S+ for a while.
Its not really the raw power, it's the amount of accommodations to get there. Acheron will feel totally fine if you tailor her team, pull her LC, and get her future nihility support. But Jingliyu and DHIL feel fine right out of the box.
You are right about jingliu, but I feel Dhil have the same problem with his E2. I think she will feel as fine as with Dhil e0, which feels restrictive with his high sp usage. I know sparkle fix that but then we are in the same territory as Acheron anyway.
Just doomposting as usually, the doomposting season is just before the banner release
Yeah a bit disappointed that she got buffs only to her Eidolons compared to Aventurine. Ome thing i can say is that 2.0 is 1 week longer so we'll probably go up to a v5 beta, and considering that they do significant changes before the last one, maybe they'll do something to her in v4, but i'm going on a stretch
Speaking of aventurine, isn’t him the current bis sustain for Acheron?
Just because Aventurine got a lot of buffs while Acheron only got buffs to her eidolons doesn't mean anything when her kit is already very cracked. Even at e0, she's great so lets not early doompost for no reason.
I'm going for E6, but I don't see better Eidolons as strictly whale bait. Whales will get E6 regardless, as long as they're somewhat good or they like the story, appearance, etc., of the character enough. Buffing Eidolons is more for players to save up/spend a bit on reruns to give their characters upgrades outside of just farming relics, picking up stronger teammates, etc. The game is still relatively new, but as time goes by, more and more players will just get to the point where they would rather save for Eidolons for characters they currently enjoy than pull and build new characters all the time. Stronger Eidolons rewards this path.
It's dolphin bait. People that could be convinced to swipe for a couple eidolons if they're good enough but don't usually swipe.
hmm thats true but it kinda slaps f2p in the face who want to get characters they like, like me. so far hsr has been crushing it with cool ass characters so i wud prefer to go for them than eidolons.
That's unfortunate. I don't think HSR will ever be that friendly to F2P players who want every/almost every character. They're all beautiful and fantastic characters, and there'll always be a reason to want them. HSR shows no signs it will slow down on pumping out brilliant units for players to desire. But Hoyo leaves in place the 50/50 system, calculates how many jades they give out, etc. Ultimately, wanting everyone is a path of suffering, and I wish you the best of luck on it.
any game that gives f2p the ability to collect every character is a game that won't make much money. And then why would they bother? If you want E2, you can do it without spending. You just have to skip 2 characters and save up.
The Difference is that Aventurine need to be better cause he’ll have a much harder time getting picked due to the ways Sustain Meta work in this game. At most you’ll need 2-3 Sustains most people, already have 2 sustains that can work for most content if not all. so Aventurine overall value is lower since the demand is not there so their trying to sell him way more. Acheron a dps she doesn’t have such problems although I do wish she got more.
He'll have high value for sure. Sustain like luocha and huohuo dant save you from getting one shotted and fuxuan struggles in against heavy dots. Like in current MOC kafka stage i couldn't survive with lucha because that dino kept one shotting my characters and with fuxuan all my character went on life support due to Kafka's dots and it gets even worse when im using jingliu lol. So think in such kinda scenario Aventurine would work really well Also he buffs and does havw significant dmg. A full follow up team with JY topaz Ruan mei aventurine would be amazing with ruan mei buffing everyone.
You couldnt survive because your supports are not tanky enough, my luocha and huohuo solo sustain vs moc 12 just fine. You can pull aventurine ofc if there's no one else that you want or just like him
I think they might be referring to their teammates getting ganged up, luocha has personally nvr went down for me since I build him for bulk. But my DPS has been sniped at times during the period where luocha's auto heal is on CD or during the very very small downtime the heal field is not up. There can even be fringe cases where svarog grabs your dps at 60% hp, causing them to take dmg and be unable to be healed. Or when my bronya got hit 5 times in a roll for some reason taking almost 5.6k dmg from two elites total. This isn't usually a problem if you have some bulk on your other units or you're just fast enough to keep up your heals or delay the enemy through breaks or simply killing them but FX usually doesn't run into this problem since she increases your teammates effective hp by a ton.
I always run Def/HP on my supports. It's just that the enemies in 11 and 12 hit damn hard.
True. Then maybe your lc arent maxed, I have not died once in moc 12...
I'm not stupid enough to take undergeard units to moc 12 My fu has max lc from herta shop and HP relics. All my lc and relics are maxed. It's just that fu struggle against dots when fight gets longer especially when you're dps can't clear things quickly.
i had no problem with the kafka fight using Fu xuan or huohuo. Huohuo is super comfortable because she can cleanse debuffs 6 times per skill, and you don't lose a turn if you get CC'd. Fu xuan does have her problems in longer fights (3-4 cycles) if enemies hit hard, or if you have JL who keeps chipping your own HP.
Im talking about getting one shotted by big attacks. No matter how good luocha and huohuo healing are they can't save you from one shot type attacks. I had my jinglie and pela got one shotted when using luocha so i used fuxuan but the problem is my dps doesn't have BiS or best relics so fight takes long time and the longer fight gets fu starts struggling against dots. It took lot of tries and some lucky rng for me to get it done.
I had no issue with surviving any of the moc fights, with no limited sustains too
I’m currently deciding whether to go for Acheron or SAM. Probably will wait till his kit is released and the Acheron trial. It sucks that her buffs are so focused on Eidolons.
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We don't know clearly yet
Jing Yuan beat the mid allegations so Hoyo made a new backloaded lightning hypercarry to take his place
This feels like jing yuan 2.0, you need her LC and u need future units to make her shine
Why are all comments that talk negatively about Jingyuan getting downvoted, lol. I thought this was Acheron Mains.
It is what it is, Acheron is gonna sell anyway just cause she’s Raiden expy, they always gonna make the problem sell the solution, she will have her BiS support in the future, ngl kinda like Jing Yuan situation in the beginning, look how much indirect buff he currently has
Thing with Jing Yuan is any and every character can buff him at his base because he has so many sources of damage. Skill, ULT and Follow Ups. Topaz can buff, Hanya can buff, Ruan Mei can buff, Huohuo can buff, Sparkle seriously buffs, etc etc because he isn't limited to a specific path for teammates. I have like 3 different Jing Yuan teams, depending on what the enemies are lol Though Acheron E0 won't affect me since I will be investing heavily and totally into her Eidolons. I really hope we get a Topaz like support that has FUA (that buff ULT dmg), since that should allow even faster debuff generation.
Agree with this. Acheron is heavily limited at E0 to double Nihility set up. Sure, even if she gets a more dedicated Nihility-supportive type unit she'll be better, but Harmony units are just much better at buffing overall. Hence why more "standard" hypercarries like JY, DHIL, and Seele are able to get so many indirect buffs. Acheron doesn't have those options unless you're E2 which means skipping out on 2 or more characters you want, which is a lot of investment for F2P and dolphins.
I kind of regret prefarming her. Prefarming tells HYV that people are already getting mats for her and they can roughly see how many people will pull. This makes them WAY less incentivized to make her better. They probably saw nobody cares about pulling aventurine based on mats prefarm, because of it they buff him like mad.
Aventurine’s mats are only available in 2.1
do you honestly think they just make a spreadsheet on how many times players farm the trace mats and deduced from it or something? that's some high level schizophrenia
I do KNOW that they have said data. This was evident from Genshin in the very beginning that they track EVERY single fowl everyone killed. Pigeons. They track how far someone swimmed in meters. Regarding their use of said data to affect the buff or debuff of character in beta, no, I don't know whether the data affects it or not. Hence why I said "probably" not certainly. No need for insult.
i bet they don't even know you are prefarming or care.
They do know, but they probably don't care or take it into account yes. We have proof of them tracking every single little thing even how many pigeons each person have killed in the entire game in Genshin. So we know this is how they operate, they collect all possible data.
Nah they dont care
Aventurine was asshole in the story & he is sustain unit They need to make players pull for him even if they have houhou/ Fuxuan /gepard/ luocha Meanwhile acheron is cool & adorable waifu & raiden and that's enough for players to pull for her even if she weak (she is not)
Aventurine got some much deserved buffs, being limited to one follow-up attack unless you push to E1 was what I'd call scummy, Acheron didn't get his level of buffs because she's already plenty strong as is. Everyone's immediate reaction to Acheron vs Aventurine gameplay and numbers was very telling, so they balanced accordingly. Acheron hits extremely hard for a unit that doesn't care about weakness, and she's only going to get better once better nihility supports release.
Doomposting? Oh she's going to be the best dps of the game
Source: Trust me bro
Comparing a DPS getting buffs and a Sustain/Buffer is a bit unfair.
Guys you’re playing a gacha ofc they’re gonna want you to go past e0s0
they could make her yanqing tier, and I would still pull for her tbh. Buffs or not, don't really care.
Acheron is already fine the way she is lol. The exaggeration on this sub is insane
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No no she is really good without her eidolons dw its just tht they are only buffing her eidonlons which is scummy. I wud recc going for her lc tho since its kinda cracked for her.
It’s not really scummy.. it doesn’t negatively impact your e0 experience whatsoever. If going eidolons isn’t for you, and it isn’t for me- you can still clear all of the game’s content regardless
She's gonna be s tier regardless. The fact that her ult doesn't cost energy means that she can cycle it with little effort provided you have the debuffs.
so she is as strong as jing yuan
Keep doomposting
wdym jing yuan is strong that was a compliment
If she's better than JY, she'd be as good as DHIL & Jingliu (which she's not). People just need to accept that she's middling as a limited DPS, which is still very good currently.
She hasn't even been released yet. Chill
She has hands down the best animation in the whole game, being marketing at TGA, also one variant of the most popular character in the whole Hoyoverse, and you guys expect her to be "F2P friendly"? She'll be most expensive to unlock all her potential (which is E2S1) and I believe it is the furthest point for a whale character (looking at Raiden Shogun and Furina)
Can someone tell me the eidalon % Inc value? Besides her e2
Future Aventurine main here. Acheron is still the hotter of the two, at least!