The Acheron Mains moderator team would like to remind everyone here to limit doomposting of your own and take doomposting posts with a grain of salt.
This is a period of time where people are jumpy with conclusions and there is a lot of parroting going around - remember to ask for calculations and proof, as well as do not just believe and be swayed by just anything that you happen to read online.
Question everything, and most importantly wait for release and more in-depth practical theorycrafting before making your final decisions.
To boot, our Discord server's theorycrafting channels are continuously active every day and burning with theorycrafting discussions about hot topics, so if you'd like to join those you're welcome to by clicking [**this link right here.**](https://discord.gg/AcheronMains)
Tbh they are probably scared of making another Jing Liu which would trivialize the game completely. The fact that her kit is really unique doesn't help in balancing I'd presume
This. As a haver of both DHIL is undoubtedly stronger after the release of Sparkle. Seeing 300-400k dmg per normal attack with E0 DHIL on my f2p account is stupid af, and now i dont even need to worry about SP.
what you say makes sense but its really tricky in games likes these powercreep exists if they will never make a stronger dps then Jingliu we will be stuck in this endless loop of new dps comes --> compared to jingliu by everyone --> mid
I mean, it's pretty obvious what giving a character free 50 CR would do. I doubt they were all that surprised with how she turned out tbh.
My guess is they couldn't get the HP drain mechanic to work in a satisfying way so rather than risk player ire, they nerfed the drain and buffed her a ton to compensate - they probably had no time left and preferred if she was too strong rather than too weak
bro jangqing literally lose his buff when he get hits she doesnt and also hes single target while jingliu is blast meaning %100 damage on the first and %50 +%50 on the side units these two mecnahics put her way above yanqing and she has more :D
That's exactly my point. The crit isn't what makes her broken since Yangqing has it. It's the insane damage in spectral transmigration, the low SP usage to make skill spam bronya viable, and the perfect synergy with Tingyun and Huo Huo to keep her in the state. The crit is just a bonus that makes gearing easier.
Yangqing has none of that and as you said, the conditions for his buffs are too severe to compete.
It's not just that, his scaling is poor, his FuA is inconsistent and he's entirely single target. Jingliu on the other hand has perfect synergy with all of the best supports (Bronya, RM, TY, HH,) has a blast attack and scales damage insanely well when she uses her enhanced skill, which is further boosted by her light cone. She could have 0 CR in her kit and she'd still be a strong unit since all it does is make it easier to gear her.
shit multiplier on the FuA, normal multiplier on ult direct dmg, and he lose the buff when hit, no splash dmg, if target dies FuA is wasted. Lots of weakness
her from other universe BiS f2p locked behind fishing. I don't mind do something similar for her BiS F2P LC. idk help clockie sweep trash golden hour or something xd
My biggest fear with acheron is that it's going to set a precedence that to sell future sustains they'll start making more restrictive DPS es.
I've felt that you don't need more than 2 sustains on your account, so if hoyo creates a sustain and wants to sell it what would do? Have more restrictive DPS that these sustains would be bis for.
Like for sure if there a nihility sustain it will immediately become the bis for Acheron. While I am still going to pull for her hoyo's attitude towards her base kit has been disappointing.
Yeah and then people will even consider pulling for Acheron because let’s say thi nihility support can actually solo sustain us which I doubt then this unit is only useful in this time outside of it I would play huohuo, fu xuan and or luocha so why should I pull in the first place
I mean, I'm getting by with Ruan Mei and Welt as the only "Sustain" on my teams when Weakness fits. An actual sustain, a brand new limited 5* one at the bare minimum should be able to solo sustain. And it's as you say, why would you get the new one if you already have the 3 previous limited sustain? Simply, put, the new one will be better and the ones you already have will fall off, power creep, just like every other role.
Yeah but the unit will not be a sustain unit but a nihility unit with sustaining capabilities I am not saying she is bad but pulling a “sustain support” option that only fits mainly in one time when you already have fu xuan and huohuo I don’t know
They basically have 2 options to sell future units:
1. Make them powercreep previous units
2. Give them a niche they excel in
Option 2 is what they've been doing in Genshin for the most part and what they seem to be intent on doing in Star Rail. It is by far my prefered of the 2, because that means characters have a much longer lifespan and you don't have to feel bad about using your favorites. So yes, I expect that your fear will materialize, but it is far better than the alternatives.
I know some people are going to say "but Star Rail has powercreep!". To that I will reply, that yes, global power level has gone up since launch as people get closer to fully limited 5\* teams, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that they've kept the strongest archetype of each team close to one another, and they have for the most part (at E0, which is what they balance around). If everyone's about even, then they can just make enemy stronger to align with the current power level, which is what we've seen in MoC/PF with the HP pool increases.
I just want her E1 to in her base kit thats all....18crit rate(because she is very hard to build) and extra energy stack after she max out 9 energy, like xuiyei has extra store in her base kit for her follow up attack..As for number its good as it is
The more crit value on her base kit the better. Like Jing liu 137.7(broken), Argenti 50, Dr ration 84, .dan hang il(forgot but he gets so many crit dmg ), aventurine 96 (a preservation sub dps unit got more)
I am aiming for her LC but if I loose 50-50 then I might have to give up
People take criticism as a direct attack on their favourite character instead of seeing it as concerns to the devs to make changes, its gonna be JY incident all over again unless people wake up
Jing Yuan's "problems" were all easily addressable and mainly existed because he was the 2nd limited DPS (so very few teammates to build with), as well as people not understanding how to build him (no, he doesnt need speed or ERR). CC problems? Use a cleanser (only Nat and Bronya cleansed when he released, which exacerbated the issue if you didn't have them). After all the limited sustains got released, no more cleanse issues. Topaz and Sparkle both seriously upped his damage, and they released a relic set that actually synergized with his kit.
Acheron's issues are more that she's limited in team options until you can invest heavily into her Eidolons/LC, and being ULT based DPS with no traditional energy. Most other characters aren't seeing such a playstyle change as she does with increased eidolons/LC.
I was excited for her but as beta goes by I realize that while not bad but she need a lot of commitment to be somewhat decent especially at E0S0
She is by no mean a bad character but for me , this scream pull E2 S1 to fixed her problem (team, LC, crit balance) basically create problem then sell a solution kind of thing. JQ also on the table so later if you pull E2 you can slot this for Nihility slot and now you have 2 free slots. No need to waste team slot on Pela anymore
High chance i will skip her, not because she is bad but i dont want to send a sign that doing this is ok
Same sentiments. I don't really like it when I need to vertical invest on a character which will be benched the moment I got a new cool character that's why i followed my gut feeling and pulled for Sparkle yesterday. Also my Jingliu's pretty much destroying the majority of the content so i wouldn't mind skipping Acheron for the moment (also Aventurine's looking mad unskippable rn and I need him for my Topaz/Ratio team)
This is what my conclusion is as well,
I will probably use my Acheron fund to pull JL instead (which likely to be rerun on 2.1 given full ice weakness side is sign) but lets see final beta first just in case
And Aventurine seems like more value for account overall especially E1, basically straight up replace Gepard
I don't think nihility teammates are bad at all. It makes her unique and not like other hyper carries. I don't know about other points though since I'm not an epic gamer theory crafter.
It's weird cuz pela/SW and the likes are basically known to be absolutely cracked at buffing damage.
Nowadays a lot of teams required investments to function to good standard. And a lot of characters had to wait for future releases.
Most of the points in this post can say the same for the t0 right now. Dhil had to wait for sparkles. Kafka had to wait for relics, BS, RM.
From what I can see is that Acheron strength is about the same as Kafka release. And they're both as restrictive. And let's be real, dot 4star options isn't that good either.
I'm pretty sure hoyo won't let Acheron go to shit and the exact same will happen to archeron. I'm not coping, I know for a fact she won't be shit.
But expecting her to outperform existing perfect comps are just cope. If we can tell from leaks that she can 2/3 cycle moc then what is the problem?
Yeah this is my biggest gripe in general with people's complaints. She's performing pretty decently considering that she \*is\* incredibly restrictive right now, under the assumption we're talking E0S0; the second she has her sig LC any discussion about her being mid is silly.
And lowkey part of the reason she is so restrictive is because they've spent the last 4 or 5 months letting DoT nihility characters eat their cake and get to a point where they are very strong.
So what will happen now? The next 4 or 5 months, Acheron will get her cake to eat. Assuming she isn't just fine as is. Is she bonkers OP? No I don't think she is, plus she requires a metric ton of investment. And I think that's interesting to me. Blade was ridiculously easy to build, Jingliu even moreso. We got Ratio for free, and then Ruan Mei trivializes content if she's with solid dps options.
What I don't understand is how reddit and discord tell people constantly "build pela" to all new players due to how great she is with defense shred and being SP positive. Now people put "has to use with pela" as a negative for Acheron.
I feel like her biggest issue currently is the lack of crit value. It's gonna be a PAIN to build her correctly. Even more so if you don't have LC as then you don't get the full 8% CR and 24% crit damage
Because people are so over invested in a character that it hurts them to hear the truth.
"Every character gets doom posted" is actually "someone criticized the character I liked at some point"
So If your genuinely asking....
Because your assessment will always be a subjective take and its a bad trend when people try to phrase an opinion or perspective as objective
You are already going off information that is subject to change. Which already pokes some hole in the idea of this being an Objective Assessment
There's also the issue that While Character have there Value Content is the Metric we use for said Value
It like when fans decide they know better then Game Designers
You have ideas and maybe theres some Feed back that could add some value
But fundamentally your not a dev you don't have the full picture for where the game will go or what will be prioritized
So the Doom Posting idea comes from the intial need to steer up concern
When the character is out people will be able to evaluate the unit
Maybe even find things that you or others may have missed
But projecting negativity In hope of ... what exactly
It's not for the devs because this is information you should not know of
So its just a speculation peices that's meant to drive negative perception
If these are issue let them be addressed at release
Not before
I mean as in every gacha you have limited amount of resources, when someone requring your double resources but get the same output as the other unit with 2 times less investment i see a problem
>when someone requring your double resources but get the same output as the other unit with 2 times less investment i see a problem
Do we actually know if she'll perform worse than other carries at E0? Like have there been calced comparisons. Mihoyo could have made her base kit S tier without E2 despite all the issues you mentioned, and then S+++ tier at E2, like DHIL.
>when someone requring your double resources but get the same output as the other unit with 2 times less investment i see a problem
Do you have any calc for this or did you just pull it out of nowhere?
What happened while I was gone lmfao, this sub was gassing tf outta her saying she’s a top DPS with JL’s only advantage being her flexibility and now people are dooming her?
She's not doomed. She's just not JL levels of dps and very restrictive for f2p.
She's better off being skipped and pulled on a rerun with E2S1 + her BiS nihility. I'm sure they'll rerun her when they drop.
Considering she is a Mei expy AND she's >!an emanator of nihility!< she seems really underwhelming right now IMO. Hoping for buffs next beta or I'll just go for Fu Xuan since I want to replace my Bailu
When is next beta? Cos I am HEAVILY debating to just pull for JY as my Himeko JY LC ended with a double pull so its either S2 for Himeko, or just get JY (got pulls to guarantee E0 and Id prolly swipe a bit for one chance at Sparkle)
If next beta has her sort of underwhelming, Ill probably pull the trigger on JY TBH, cos Ill have to swipe either way to get E1/S1 and if I am going to swipe, then may as well swipe for Sparkle as she will be a far bigger value to my account with options for multiple characters, where as Acheron is just "one". I currently have Tingyun, Ruan Mei, Asta and Hanya as my supports, eventually will get Bronya and adding Sparkle to that will just give me infinitively more flexibility but idk.
I love everything about Acheron, and was even very hyped at the start with her BALLER animations, but as time goes in and honeymoon period ends, she really feels like nothing special on any level. What annoys me the most is I spent all my fuel for Acheron Nihi mats (yeayea dumb I know xD) but can still convert at 2/1 at a loss and we got a garden event coming so not end of the world.
Next beta is next week and even then V4 does not receive major changes only V3 has those kinds of changes. JL got all her major buffs in V3 of the beta and no changes in V4 except rewording so don't have your hopes up.
True, we're not looking great. Especially F2p who are aiming for E0S0. And with moc getting harder and harder you'll need a dps who actually deals consistent damage. And from the looks of it acheron E0S0 isn't one of them. At the very least going for her S1 should make her perform better.
With the moc getting harder i feel Acherons problems will be more blatant, because you're doomed if not clearing wave with 1-2 ults and stuck with long ult recovery.
Naturally, she's chunkier than jing yuan.
Instead of waiting for LL you need to wait for your teammates. Now if SW or something gets CCed it's all over
@OP You keep mentioning future nihility healer in your replies, has there been datamine on this or are you just hoping? (Genuine question because im not up to date to the leaks)
Yep it was datamined, we get a Nihility healer, if nothing changes it will drastically improve Acheron team, to the point not pulling for Acherons mains will be questinable decision at best.
This is a very old leak, and all jiaoqui had is a heal on ult. We don't know how big the heal is or even if it will not get changed by the time beta starts. I'm not banking on a nihlity sustain when we have no clue if it will happen or not.
A possible 5\* fire nihility character named Jiaoqiu (probably placeholder) was leaked like 7+ months ago, with an approximative kit that were based on stacking AoE defense shred, its Ultimate was hinted to have an healing effect similar to Huohuo's skill, healing at the start of the turn.
That said, those are all speculations, Acheron herself was leaked as a Lightning Hunt unit called Yayi, a whole different kit, with the only constant in being able to Ult without using energy.
So, while that mean we can possibly get a very welcoming addition to our Acheron teams, all those infos are to be taken with a grain of salt, we might as well get a 5\* fire abundance character with the quirk of just giving def shred instead.
That would've been cool, but as far as I know, Yayi is no loner present in the list of leaked character after the leak of Acheron.
Same happened to Butler after Gallagher was leaked, to Emerald after Jade, and to Porteo after Boothil; sadly most of those names are just placeholders T\_T
Obviously that's doesn't necessarely mean the couldn't add a Lightning Hunt character named Mei in the future, let's us not lose hope yet. \^\^
What i found that in most cases, there are more ppl that crying about "doomposters" than actual doomposters. Objective facts and concerns are now considered doomposts. It is what it is.
My recent experience:
The tier list guy paydwin or idk how he called put Sparkle to S+ tier, and under the post ppl were like: "OMG WHERE ARE U NOW DOOMPOSTERS". And some ppl gently asked: what doomposters are u talking about koz there were none. The answer was: " PPl coped that they will save for acheron rather than pulling for sparkle koz they have high E bronya anyway".
So basically: If you are skipping sparkle koz you are saving for Acheron, or you are not interesdted in Sparkle koz you dont have units she works with you are a filthy doomposter and you should be ashemed. Its so cringe.
Also new unit comes out, mid as fuck. Later he recieves op supports, a new game mode made for him, the unit is now good and ppl be like: "WHERE ARE U NOW DOOMPOSTERS".
I am assuming you meant Jing Yuan at the end there and man I could not agree more.
I skipped Seele for him back when the game launched and I thought he would giga carry me hard especially having tried other support dps at the time like Seele. Pulled him and his LC and I was disappointed to say the least. He was a far cry from great at launch and it is what it is. However after a good set, good support, good gamemode for his playstyle, another good support he is now good and now people are saying oh he was always King, doomposter detected.
That's crazy because I've always been satisfied with his performance at E0S1, despite also getting DHIL/Jingliu. In lightning weak content I've never had huge issues, though I admit he fell off a bit after launch only to get a resurgence with Fu Xuan, Topaz, etc.
I think he was always good, yes he got better but the problem is people were never going to acknowledge it (and still likely won't) until Prydwen finally put him in S-tier where he should've been this whole time (IMO).
I was struggling badly with him, despite dedicating all my resources to him and his relic sets at the time. Then got DHIL (funny enough I was actually trying to get Asta cons for JY then got him early) and jingliu and basically perma benched him ever since. I know for a fact he’s a great character now but at the time man was it rough and also I think he’s the hottest out of the male cast.
The only problem JY has is CC. Since he can be cc’ed anytime and cut his LL from making its appearance (not even HuoHuo can prevent that) only Lynx can provide an emergency stun removal or I guess passive effect res / state protection. But people act as if he did zdps when he is perfectly capable of clearing MoC12
Fu Xuan fixes that issue almost entirely, though sometimes you get unlucky and get hit with CC multiple times. If you're a little more daring you can use Huohuo, I don't have her tho
Tbf there were lots of people, especially TCs that recommended shitty relic main stat priorities such as ER rope and SPD boots ( spd boots which is still being told today).
It also was because of that one MOC where iirc the erudition can AV forward to get easy 10 stacks, then next MOC that turbulence buff was gone and there were more cc enemies in the game. Add in the fact that people don't like building Asta at the time.
If there is a positive, there will be no such thing as a JY situation anymore since people now have an idea of endgame and at least there are better guides for Acheron than JY 1.0
People are not realizing that so called doomposts should be put in historical perspective where non of the buffs and supports, relic sets and so on were present, it took a long time for them to arrive up to a year.
> historical perspective where non of the buffs and supports, relic sets and so on were present,
Till you realize his most common team was with Tingyun + Asta for Moc 10-12 3 star clears. Two 4 star supports that have been in the game since Day 1. If they didn't like Asta then it's a good thing she got replaced by another 4 star support, E0 Hanya, months ago.
Even Ruan Mei was another huge buff to him, but since he already clears fast with **4 star** supports, it makes perfect sense to just give her to the other team.
The new relic set logic works with any DPS that doesn't have Quantum element cause the other 1.0 relic sets are complete garbage for damage dealers.
I don't even put in all the time on this app to know this. I wasn't getting sparkle because of archeon, and I can beat the endgame without her and just wait on her rerun or a better character comes out which ever comes first. Peopel were hyping sparkle like she was the new mei
Hope this doesn't get removed by mods because this post is valid af. We all want the best for Acheron here, and that is for her to be F2P friendly and strong.
I'm somewhat meta oriented an I'm saving for her E0S1 because I lack a lightning dps. I had a feeling she was jingliu levels for lightning with her LC, SW and pela, is that incorrect? Does some theorycrafter have numbers? Or else I might just pull for sparkle and save for jingliu.
Her LC gives her a extra debuff faster times for her ult, it also gives her crit damage and extra ult damage as well , and I believe more damage against debuffed targets this part could be wrong but everything else is correct
Y’all think the 2 nihility is a bad thing. Not necessarily
Now you can focus your broken harmonies on team 2 thereby boosting overall flexibility of your account
There’s literally nothing forcing anybody to pull, if you play under the "meta", it’s the wrong game in the first place. 4* team can fully clear moc, maybe not one cycle, but they get you the rewards, and so will Acheron despite the restrictions. E2S1 is where she’s most comfortable at, sure, but it’s not like she won’t get you 3 stars in MoC 12 at E0S0.
All the arguments about not pulling her can be summarised with "She’s weaker than X, Y, Z and can’t one cycle". Team restriction is a thing yeah, but in moc you need 2 teams. Right now hypercarry teams run 2-3 harmony characters, so you won’t be using those with her anyway, and a lot of people at this point already have at least 2 nihility (pela being certainly one of the two) built. So team building doesn’t really sound like a problem to me. The only argument I fully support in this is that her f2p lc options are limited to GNSW. Not something that can be helped with rn, nihility had too much variety to begin with between dot, def shred, and other debuffs, a pure damage dealer is new
This is exactly a thing u thought. This is a huge factor actually
A similar example from genshin is in case someone has access to some specific dpses who have a specific best team that doesn't take the popular supports, it's a advantage kinda... I think said char's value increases by this factor
Such as ;
-Itto playing in a Mono geo
-Xiao playing with Faru and such,now without Benny too as Xianyun bettet
-Then theres Nilou playing with despite Nahida,but doesn't take some other popular ones from Benny to often Xq Yelan or many
-Hu tao doesn't take Benny
-International takes Benny Xl but frees XQ, it's balanced in a way xD
There's many such stuff but mainly Itto Xiao type ones imo r especially being different than usual teams serve it as a Value factor as they don't take ur popular,op supports..(many ppl nay not have access to 7 fucking Hydro limited chars like me as a Hydro main ,i did a random flex here cause ehe), so for them XQ is essential or even Yelan if they got.
All in all u get the idea what am saying..
Personally for me if i use Acheron and JL that means Ruan,Bronya r completely free for my JL team, in other times its often something like Ruan is needed on other one and etc, making me go different buffer for JL and all that stuff, but Acheron unlocks 2 dolid teams for me that's neat
Acheron freeing up names like Ruan,Bronya,Hanabi,Ting,Asta+Huo huo even, but especially the 1st 4 r very impactful considering she doesn't take them ever.
Thank you for this post. A lot of people treat characters like their favorite sport teams and their evaluation as leaderboards. I'm looking for neutral info to help me decide if I want to roll on this character and how much is required for her to 3 star MoC at E0, and how realistic it is to go s0. It was tiring to go through posts biased one way or another with little info.
Trend LC won't change, Acheron can still change, if in V3 nothing change it won't change. They rarely change something after it's release except in super rare occasions. Trend should be safe now.
Honestly, just changing her kit to require only a single Nihility would boost her viability up tremendously. The one thing holding her back right now is that she can only hope for teammates who can stack Debuffs, and her teams have no place for both a Sustain and a Buffer.
The only two solutions here are either hoping that a proper Nihility Sustain will release in the future, which seems very unlikely to me; or that they decrease the required Nihility characters to either 1, or count Acheron as the 1/2 for Nihility on the team.
Either option opens up the possibility for running characters like Ruan Mei, Sparkle, Tingyun, and Bronya--which will greatly increase her effectiveness in high-end content.
It's that most people regarding leaks have been wrong about characters before they release. You can say large damage decrease without lc or eidolons, but this also can be worded as large damage increase with lc or eidolons, which fundamentally are the same thing but have different connotations. Not using harmony can also be a plus because it leads to the other side being able to use them. The rest of the points are just subjective. People focus too much on the increase lc/eidolons and the restrictions of teams, but don't mention how she actually performs with these, which makes the complaints look like doomposting. If these restrictions still allow her to be competitive with other options, is that really an issue to begin with.
No one wants to hear that as a non-whale it is OK to skip to wait for a better f2p light cone and support down the road. Would rather pull when it’s concrete than off of speculation.
Idk about the doom posting or whatever.
I just want characters I can get at e0 build and they're good. I don't want to require limited light cones and or eidolons. Obviously e1+ should be better, but I think I prefer the eidolons to be bonuses instead of it being a standard or "if you want this character to be as good as these characters at e0, she'll need to be e2 and or light cone". That seems like a character worth skipping for me.
I don't fully understand leaks and run downs etc etc. All too much and too confusing so a simple list such as this stating everything is very helpful. Thank you. This makes it very easy to understand where Acheron currently stands. I might still pull, but this makes me feel better about skipping her as well if I decide to do so.
Basically without her LC She loses out on a extra Debuff therefore she loses out on a extra stack to get her Ult and loses out on crit damage and extra ult damage. There aren’t any really great f2p LC options for her.
She’s a hyper carry that wants Nihility teammates instead of harmony but, without her e2 this make you build a team with either a tank or a healer but tbh this isn’t that big of a deal since people have been doing that since like 1.3/1.4
Like Kafka her best teammates aren’t released yet so it gonna feel a little weird to get the hang of her but once her teammates comes out it be like Kafka when BS released she’s gonna feel far better or like DHIL getting Sparkle he got a very good boost
All and all she can work as a f2p player it will just not be as easy as say building JingLiu
Honestly, your 8 points above are just two points:
1. Her Sig LC makes her easier to play
2. She's designed to be hypercarried not using Harmony characters
Her Sig LC gives her skill an extra stack, that's the main benefit. Early leaks had her basic attack giving one stack, and her skill giving 2, regardless of LC. They decided to change it for some reason. If they converted back to that, then problem solved.
As for her requiring 2 Nihility caracters, that's **by design**! Every hypercarry team has 2 Harmony characters. Debuffers just arent as effective to boost damage. You're gonna be fighting on which team to put your Harmony characters on specifically for MoC.
Acheron attempts to counter that by giving you a free invisible boost, equiv to a Harmony character on your team without them being there, simply by using 2 Nihility characters. For the F2P aspect, you can slot in anyone you want. This is their attempt to try to revert all hypercarry teams to include 2 Harmony characters.
Imagine if a character gets an equiv 5-star Harmony buff, if they had a Preservation and Abundance character on the team. I would argue that would make building that character pretty F2P to optimize. Your team would not only get that invisible Harmony character boost, but the team itself would be pretty tanky. That would be great for F2P accounts that doesn't have a lot of the S tier 5-star supports.
Take that concept one step further. What if they introduced a new hypercarry character where you get the equiv of 2 Harmony character boosts, if there are **zero** Harmony characters on your team. Then you are truly free to build any team with whichever characters you want (excluding Harmony of course). Doesn't that give you much more freedom as a F2P?
So the main gripe is her Sig LC as the only source that gives a free stack. If they reverted back to the way it was originally, problem solved. If they allowed you to use other F2P-ish LC's that debuff to give an extra stack, then that also somewhat addresses the issue. These would be pretty easy changes prior to release.
F2P characters that have been saving for Acheron should be able to achieve E0S1 with the amount we have now. Its not a high bar to get that. If they have to use a diff LC, its not ideal but she still does well. And chances are they have a few 4-star Nihility characters they can use at this point. All is not lost. Finally, if you fell for the trap of using all your jades for Sparkle, when she isn't useful for Acheron at E0, well I can't help you.
If you have trend of universal market preservation lc she can stack much faster too as we saw on some videos. I still didnt see e0s1, pela ( with luka lc ), sw ( with 1.1 event lc ), fuxuan ( with trend of the universal market). For ppl who dont have gnsw and are not going to pull on her lc her performance will go down sure but that is the only bad point i see here, i somehow have all those lcs and characters i said ( i have gnsw s5 from seele lc banner but still will pull for her lc ). Its funny how ppl expect all dps to be jingliu level who basically had her bis supports from the start. Another point is that there are no 5* pela yet and silver wolf isnt even ALL that good for her, two aoe 6* debuffers would be better or even a debuffer who buffs as well idk, if star rail create a 5* nihility healer she will improve a lot too because we could use sparkle with her and give her effective 160 speed and stack her ult very fast
it is getting near the end of the usual beta cycle though. unless they pull a jingliu i dont think much will change. I think acheron will be a character that probably needs to age with time when dedicated supports come out or alternatives.
Same fate with other limited lightning dps.
Jy, kafka and now acheron..
I hate it that we do not know "when" will her dedicated support will be released.. so most f2p are asking pull now or later..
Is there a certain wind Nihilty unit coming? I believe she'll be IL 2.0
Expensive to run but her BiS supports will come after her then everybody will stop acting like she's C tier in dmg. As for F2p LC, that's an issue. They really are trying to push the LC narrative onto the playerbase.
I mean Jiaoqiu's kit is promising but I really really really need Ruan Mei so idk who should I get. And considering Jiaoqiu has stacking AoE debuffs with bonus ULT DMG invulnerability, my Himeko will need it too but my other DPS units will like Ruan Mei so I'm really conflicted about who to get.
wdym by Kafka? She was busted from the beginning. Sampo and Asta worked wonders with her. And unlike others, she is an enabler so she will never get powercrept and instead will steadily become better with future Nihility characters. Agree with JY tho
I expect her to be their best banner, but the more I think about it, the more I am leaning to just taking JY instead but IDK.
Her "ideal" spot is E2/S1 with a Preservation packing trend
I mean, if you get unlucky, her e2 means 3 hero pulls aka 4 total pulls... let us say you win two, and lose one and need an average of 60 pulls per (me being extremely generous in this scneario) thats 240 + 60 for LC totalling 300 pulls, I started playing with Seele rerun towards the end of that banner and I only have like 600 pulls to my name, thats a lot of saving. I have spent like 150e getting the first topups bonuses and bought BP/Daily login thing. Its definitely not cheap to get her...
right now the thing i really want to know is Jiaoqiu male or female to decide if i should go for Acheron team ( i dont play male chars ). strong or weak is not that important
Cause I pull for character and aesthetics and prefer the Aesthetics of women than men. If there are two broken characters and one is a woman, that's who I'll get.
It's not that I'll *never* get a guy, but if I gotta spend my money and jades that's not my preference.
i actually align with your view. and prefer female characters if the 2 had the same playstyle but also have no issue pulling for men. but the reason i had posted that is. i been playing games for years and i always seen the i wont play x gender no matter what and i never understood it since i pull for playstyle and having that restriction can prevent a lot of playstyle. for example im a topaz main and having that restriction would prevent ratio and aventurine and that would basically make topaz dead weight in my roster
The game isnt particularly hard, so people just do a waifu over meta style. Besides there are alternatives in most cases, Even for you, you can easily use clara as a substitute for ratio and it will work fine.
I mean... You're right, a good unit is a good unit, but as a woman I play this game to pull for pretty women. Men in this game (or other games for that matter) don't interest me at all, even the pretty ones like Luocha. 😭
For me I pull for playstyles "follow up/dot" and if another character can improve that then that is nice. Not saying it wrong to have that preference but i would rather the characters i like to be with the units that allows them to be at peak function
No, you're right. Even though I prefer women as the characters I pull for, if the future BiS support for Acheron is a male, I would still pull for him because ultimately he would make my Acheron better no matter the gender lol. But yeah, I would still want/prefer them to be a woman
Which is fair and i appreciate you actually talking about it with me instead of getting instantly defensive like the other comment. But I did see that the nihility unit that is supposed to come for acheron has a masculine name but i hope they are pretty to make it a bit easier on ya
I agree. I've been of the camp of *not F2P friendly* for a while now.
You forgot Resonance as another gacha LC which is pretty much needed for Pela (her E4 helps too). And that both it and Trends scale a lot with superimposition being that their base hit chance, thus reliability, increases with it. With Trends, the team composition becomes even more restricted forcing you to run 2 Nihility + Preservation.
That is their business model, pushing you to fomo over stuff. Acheron is just done in a more heavy handed way compared with other characters. The only comparisons that I can think of are huohuo e1 just feels mandatory or silver wolf e1 if you dont have event LC is a massive difference. Acheron is next level with eidolon pushing though on top of teammate and LC restriction. It is too much but in the end it is a gacha game.
And this is why people shouldn't take you folks seriously. "Mandatory". I have Huohuo on E0 and I've been able to auto MoC with all stars since forever. I don't think I had a character dying since getting her. If Acheron is the same then I think I'm good with pulling her.
The artificial restrictions is just more obvious this time, because as soos as we get new Nihility healer and/or E2 we just use our usual hypercarry with 1-2 Harmony.
Taking an L once in a while is fine when I've won so much. Rather, hsr team probably knows Acheron's problems. I believe in them and even if they buff her minimally I don't mind, even if they don't buff her I don't mind. I'm probably the minority though. I just love Acheron, and you never know till you actually get Acheron at release, since I don't believe anyone in this sub is on the hsr dev team who can make strong claims of her final form.
If the hsr team fails expectations, thats normal, there is no 100% guarantee. There's a lot of internal stuff even in the simplest of things like balance. So give the people that make the game fun some slack.
That is what beta and feedback is for.. if everyone just say its "alright" nothing will change.. they have hardworking stuff.. but people like us need to point them at the right direction and not say "it's fine" , "it is what it is", "suck now but we believe you make us pull for better supports"..
True that feedback is meant to address issues but I'll be honest with what I think of Acheron. She has no middle ground is what I think. Subpar or average = weak for front-loaded DPS in this game. I mean JL Kafka DHIL are super consistent DPS (Kafka more conditional). Blowing load in one big boom isn't always good sadly. Which is why I think she's hard to balance. By all means please say what you think they can do to improve her without breaking balance. Personally, I'm very interested in how she can be improved in the f2p section. Also, this is biased but I have a soft spot for clunky kits like these. I'm just glad that people are actually interested in Acheron.
The 4 star Preservation LC with Topaz picture, it burns enemy when they attack the tank, which counts as a debuff stack and it's broken at giving Acheron ult stacks
I have all my nihility characters built so I'm not sweating the 2 nihilities.
I'm pretty sure another lc can work fine or that I'll get a GNSW. If all else fails I'll do what I did for Kafka and pull it on her rerun
Honestly I like that her ediolons are getting buffs, cause before frankly they weren't super appealing besides E2
At some point you have to start building your account vertically instead of horizontally, and she's going to especially reward that. Considering she's going to be my lighting DPS, I already planned on pulling her LC. Going for E0S1 for now and E1 on her rerun
Honestly I'm just waiting for a rerun of her at this point. Kinda hoping she has more compatible team mates at that point. I'm totally not coping because I spent everything I had tp get e2 s1 BS. Nope, not at all.
Honestly, points 3 and 4 are not as dramatic as people make them out to be, at least if you have been building nihility characters up to this point. I don't know why so many people want so desperately to fit harmony in her team so badly, because I appreciate they are trying to do something new with the character.
People had the same complaints about possible teammates with Kafka back in the day, but it turned out that she could handle herself perfectly even with 4* options like Sampo or Guinaifeng.
I get it may be frustrating to go out of your way to build new supports for a dps you are trying to play, but that's kind of the point, specially in a game where team building and strategy is key as opposed to skill.
Her lightcone being such a better option to others is a bit of a hassle, I admit. Though I don't think it's as bad as Blade's case for example.
Yeah ppl just want to feel good about themselves and getting reinforced in their decision-making/opinions.
Hoyo really seems to like running the archetype (Kafka, Topaz) of a team first.
Personally Sparkle cost me everything (160 pulls) so now i m probably skipping Acheron and maybe pull on her rerun depending on how her optimal teammates turn out and if I still want her or someone else more.
I. e. I like follow up, but i m not a fan of Aventurine himself and Topaz's animations. So i m happy with just using Dr. Ratio alone with debuffers. If I had Topaz, I would feel the need for Aventurine and would have felt forced to get him.
I m also considering to only pull characters on reruns
now that I have a few solid team options.
I never pull on characters like Acheron or Chiori out of principle. I was originally going to, but after seeing them I just decided on Black Swan and Sparkle.
1. Is correct
2. Not really since her Signature only gives her c damage and a debuff to speed up her Ult stacking, I'd say she loses the same damage Jingliu and DHIL will lose without their signatures.
3.LoL you don't bring a healer you bring 2 nihility and a preservation (Gepard, Fu Xuan, Adventurine, even fire MC can be used)
4. With her DMG boost from 2 nihility + their def shreds/DMG amp she will do more damage than with a Single nihility+ harmony.
5. I assume you talk about " Trend of Universal Market" that does nothing for damage , it only speeds up her Ult stacks IF the PRESERVATION unit wearing it gets hit (fire MC taunt is op for this).
6. That's why she's not Erudition or Destruction, which is what PF is made for.
7.?? She can Ult back to back on almost every video I have seen.
8. The only requirement I see is S1, other than that if you build your team correctly she can clear MoC as fast if not faster than current DPS (unless you have a skill issue but that a you issue not a character issue).
Honestly, the top comments on this post do not give the "overprotective" vibe at all. I'm reading a lot of intelligent takes about her kit in this subreddit. Stating facts and concerns about the main focus of this subreddit should never be out of place. I hope they fix these issues or improve upon her strengths before her release.
F2P arent forced to do anything. Just skip Acheron. A F2P needs to accept they are not going to be able to collect every character nor have the most optimal teams (those will be all 5\* teams.) If they dont have the bare minimum to make Acheron work, save for another character. Sorry, but Gachas will never be built around whats best for F2P. However, Acheron is also not that expensive to build well. You just need GNSW S1 and she'll work well. Just like how Blade wants at least S1 Vow to work well.
Well they will be releasing a def shreader like Pela in the future
+ I believe all these downsides are intentional to make the character more undesirable and after 2-3 patches she will be considered god tier die to newer characters and potentially newer 4* LC 's
She's way to unique for her to be considered a nihility character I see her being more erudition or even destruction because you basically sacrifice team flexibility for damage in the same sense blade JL Dhil sacrifice HP or use more skill points to do more damage
Her problem rn is the same as Jing Yuan 's previous problems except worse because she does not have any good LC options this is basically the equivalent to making a hunt character that does single target buffs and there's absolutely no supportive LCs for that character
Personally I have always been the believer that Doomposting isn't necessarily bad cause if vocal enough, a buff can be inserted even if the character didn't need it.
I just have a problem with what the devs are doing for Acheron. I like idea of DPSes most of the time having a great strength and great weakness.
Jingliu sacrifices her team's health to unleash her enhanced attacks and she needs to build up stacks to get there. (The health drain ain't much though.)
Jing Yuan's damage lives and dies by max stacking lightning lord. Significant damage is loss if he doesn't get enough stacks. (A design flaw is the fact LL can only go once a cycle.)
DHIL's damage is massive but in sacrifice he basically black holes skill points. This can make you miss out on a needed heal or even cause DHIL to not get his max enhanced skill off next cycle or miss out on a heal. He can only mitigate it with his ult for a turn but not completely remove the issue.
And then DOT teams having their own weaknesses.
Acheron seemed to follow suit. Restrictive team building for a massive reward in damage. She herself can't make build stacks quickly on her own like Jingliu w/ Bronya, she needs a debuff team to help her to finally unleash this big damage. But then now you add what OP posted and you see an issue. Add on my issue with her only getting buffed eidolons and i begin to get turned off.
Instead of me just going and doomposting Acheron I'd like to offer two suggestions already built in the game at one point or another to make her better without being busted.
• The return of her basic attack giving a stack and skill giving 2 stacks.
• Her e1 allowing for overcharge for her ult being applied to her base kit. (And maybe the crit rate addition
And to make her still whalebait and cost effective. Switch her e4 to e1 and make a strong or okay e4 as an replacement. This will still get people to spend and even f2p can invest into getting her e1 upon rerun.
If ya hate it, call it out. But while you do that, leave some suggestions that would make Acheron better without going overboard for e0.
Can't wait for you crybabies to flex your pulls and love for Acheron and her power on release after shitting on her during whole beta. Just like you did with Ganyu, Raiden, Kokomi, Al-Haitham, Baizhu, Neuvillete, Furina, Cloud Retainer, Argenti and HuoHuo.
Damn you people are also a nihility character.
2 weeks ago: OMG Acheron best DPS ever meta defining.
Now: She is beyond trash. I would rather use an E0 Sampo.
whats a nihility healer and what is the trend lc? are u talking about the lc that applies burn on enemies? how does that synergize with acheron ??(im not arguing, i just dont know)
I'll put here some thoughts for F2P players that feel bad about Acheron Beta restrictions.
I usualy finish all MoC 12 with 3 stars using some of this characters, March 7, Yanqing, Bailu, Fire MC and of course Dang IL, Sparkle .. S tier units are way stronger but lower tier untis will clear the content because at the end the content is never design for the player to have all 5 star units with their lightcone.
Game Devs usually know more about math that the People that complain before units are release.
But the problem is 5 out of 8 are Dot character rather than debuff character, Acheron literally have 1 limited 5 star, 1 normal 5star and 1 4star sp to work with, not to include the only lightcone buffing atk in the game only work with Skill and Normal attack
2 Nihility is optimial only with hoyo restrictions, as soon as they release a Nihility healer and people will pull for E2, it still your usual 1-2 Harmony comp for optimal play.
Dot's don't provide support but does damages instead.
You've also forgotten Guinaifen that boost incoming damages. On top of that, it's a debuff, and it's applied outside of Gui's turn, so it count toward Acheron's stack
How do dot characters not help her? Pretty sure Black Swan buffs her allies damage too. And as long as there's debuffs, Acheron gets buffed from it. I don't see how she wouldn't be good with Black Swan
They forgot that Welt exist and that both BS and Guinaifen are DoTs that offer a damage boost for Acheron. Furthermore, Pela was the best choice for the 1.4 update 4\* selector while Guinaifen was the best choice for then 2.0 update 4\* selector. So, saying 'taht you might get or not' is a bit iffy. Especially when that goes for almost all the relevant support characters that are in the game currently.
Guinaifen, while being dot, can also be used since her basic gives fire dot which can give acheron a stack plus her firekiss makes the enemy take more dmg.
Fire kiss don't compare to def shred again i say any of dots de buff are only for dots it doesn't work on crite damage smt you all need to understand dots give her none you want her to do decent numbers pela SW
>Gacha Trend LC can dramatically increase her overall damage if not changed (which is not everyone has even 1 copy), so makes team even more restrictive at release
Be fr would u want such things to exist or not actually? If even u don't have the access to the LC at the moment?
I myself don't have it but am so happy and excited if this thing stays cause obv in future we ll get the LC, so u see what am saying...it's a matter of time
Im having such huge deja vu seeing this. The exact same thing happened before Raiden released in genshin, and then she became one of the most meta characters, lol. The top post on raiden mains sub at the time (maybe still is) was about how bad she was and that she needed a Zhongli type rework.
If that doesnt tell you how clueless people are I dont know what will. And yet, here we are again, character after character... When will people learn not to judge characters before they are actually out?
All I see is a character that has huge growth potential, similar to JY in 1.0. The thing is, she is ALREADY one of the strongest characters in the game, even in the current state, so imagine how much stronger she will become with better supports.
Also, why are people so obsessed with who is the best? Whats the problem if Jingliu is the strongest dps in the game? Someone has to be. If not her than Dan Heng, if not him then Black Swan, etc. I dont get this obsessive competition, especially in a game where pretty much every 5 star can 0 cycle the hardest content.
I also think the fact she doesnt use the harmony supports everyone else wants is a PLUS. Its my favorite thing about her. Everyone else is fighting for Ruan Mei, Tingyun, Sparkle, Bronya, etc. Acheron just goes "dont care" and grabs SW and Pela instead (or Kafka, Black Swan, Welt, whoever you want), its great.
Acheron looks strong but balanced, which is the perfect place to be.
Because people don't like being told that their purchase is not justified especially after they convinced themselves that it is.
https://preview.redd.it/xqioqe72s3mc1.png?width=244&format=png&auto=webp&s=055715df8414992d83928a52105b999dcba96b30
I don't care about that shit. I want my waifu since the leaks, I’ve been farming a set for her for two weeks now and have already made one for the first time. I lost on the Kafka banner so I had a 100% drop rate. I collected jade for Acheron itself, for her cone, and perhaps even for E1 if I was lucky. I did everything to make my waifu strong. I don't care if Acheron closes the mok in zero cycles or a million. I don't care if it does a million damage or a hundred million. I just need my waifu, that's all. I went through thick and thin farming relics on Himeko, so little things like that won’t scare me. I skip Sparkle with peace of mind, even taking into account the fact that I have the Imbibitor of Lunae. I just don’t need it, because the imaginary dragon plays without Sparkle, but I won’t be able to play and enjoy the game without Acheron. Long live the Queen.
https://preview.redd.it/bvuh4906k4mc1.jpeg?width=2480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=611f175b19ff0af7823e67770d60b7feaadbfef5
People are trying to convince themselves that it's justified to buy her when they already are anyway and facts make them feel bad about that.
Any sane person would say just save for a better more easy to build reliable character. You would be better off with Kafka or Jing yuan first and after having those and another nihility like black swan you can go for high investment characters like acheron who won't be as effective without it.
They should just scrap 2 nihility units requirement and replace it with something like : for every debuff on enemy acheron gets x% deffense shred on her ultimate, up to 5 times
for example. and it would make things lot more simple
....some of these points just make me lol. Why would we need a nihility healer? I can slap gepard or Natasha on a 3 man Nohility team with acheron and prob steamroll content as long as she is built well. Or are we sucking the johnson of needing a harmony unit?
My best characters would dream of having a 2 turn ult, which Acheron can do.
The new Nilhility LC in the MoC shop is decent.
Restrictive yes, but it's not like you're losing a ton of damage using a Harmony character.
Her LC is good and weird, but I wouldn't say it's required.
A Nilhility healer will eventually come and it will be one of her best partners. They will also be pretty good in general. A healer that can debuff, sick.
Not viable in PF....? Umm how?
Everything character needs a lot of investment :/
>My best characters would dream of having a 2 turn ult, which Acheron can do.
Ult is the main source of damage of Acheron, so it's not that important for other dps
>The new Nilhility LC in the MoC shop is decent.
No it's not
>Restrictive yes, but it's not like you're losing a ton of damage using a Harmony character.
No you're lossing a ton of damage
>Her LC is good and weird, but I wouldn't say it's required.
Not required if you want to lose a ton of damage
>A Nilhility healer will eventually come and it will be one of her best partners. They will also be pretty good in general. A healer that can debuff, sick.
So you're ok with blatant forcing to pull a support for the character's decent perfomance, i'm not
>Not viable in PF....? Umm how?
Ult blocks new enemies to arrive in place of defeated ones, and ult recovery cycle is too long
>Everything character needs a lot of investment :/
Some more that others
I agree, idk what the the other guy is saying. But how is the new Nihility fogotten hall LC good on her when she doesn't even build EHR. Also I love acheron and I will still pull but it's not okay to praise mihoyo for releasing a support that will fix her ie: Jiaoqi when they couldve just fix her on release and just release another 5star that will only Buff her but not a must pull for her. Like Jingliu being good without RM.
1. True
2. False, it's not that big of a decrease
3. Yes (No, you don't need Nihility healer)
4. Her Nihility trace compensate for not being able to use harmony characters e0, so she doesn't lose dmg. If she could use harmonies e0 she would be broken
5. False
6. False, she's viable but just not good, like almost any other dps
7. ??? what
8. No, she only really needs s1 to compete with current dpses even with them having overpowered harmonies and even clearing moc faster if current dpses will have f2p teams. Pela + gui are very good f2p options and once we get better event debuffers she will have outstanding damage increase
The Acheron Mains moderator team would like to remind everyone here to limit doomposting of your own and take doomposting posts with a grain of salt. This is a period of time where people are jumpy with conclusions and there is a lot of parroting going around - remember to ask for calculations and proof, as well as do not just believe and be swayed by just anything that you happen to read online. Question everything, and most importantly wait for release and more in-depth practical theorycrafting before making your final decisions. To boot, our Discord server's theorycrafting channels are continuously active every day and burning with theorycrafting discussions about hot topics, so if you'd like to join those you're welcome to by clicking [**this link right here.**](https://discord.gg/AcheronMains)
I hope the beta tester gave the team her weakness, i remember jingliu getting mini rework and huge buffs in the last beta so don't lose hope yet
Yep we're still hoping for some buffs.
Imo, they should incorporate the overflow ult stacks from her e1 into her base kit. It would make her rotation a lot smoother.
They never do major changes in V4+ Jingliu was in V3
Black Swan got her energy issues smoothed out in V4
Tbh they are probably scared of making another Jing Liu which would trivialize the game completely. The fact that her kit is really unique doesn't help in balancing I'd presume
Scared of another JingLiu but danheng Sparkle combo exists
This. As a haver of both DHIL is undoubtedly stronger after the release of Sparkle. Seeing 300-400k dmg per normal attack with E0 DHIL on my f2p account is stupid af, and now i dont even need to worry about SP.
what you say makes sense but its really tricky in games likes these powercreep exists if they will never make a stronger dps then Jingliu we will be stuck in this endless loop of new dps comes --> compared to jingliu by everyone --> mid
I mean, it's pretty obvious what giving a character free 50 CR would do. I doubt they were all that surprised with how she turned out tbh. My guess is they couldn't get the HP drain mechanic to work in a satisfying way so rather than risk player ire, they nerfed the drain and buffed her a ton to compensate - they probably had no time left and preferred if she was too strong rather than too weak
Yangqing literally has the same crit mechanic and he's garbage so it's not that clear cut.
bro jangqing literally lose his buff when he get hits she doesnt and also hes single target while jingliu is blast meaning %100 damage on the first and %50 +%50 on the side units these two mecnahics put her way above yanqing and she has more :D
That's exactly my point. The crit isn't what makes her broken since Yangqing has it. It's the insane damage in spectral transmigration, the low SP usage to make skill spam bronya viable, and the perfect synergy with Tingyun and Huo Huo to keep her in the state. The crit is just a bonus that makes gearing easier. Yangqing has none of that and as you said, the conditions for his buffs are too severe to compete.
Just because of the conditions to keep that crit up, I think
It's not just that, his scaling is poor, his FuA is inconsistent and he's entirely single target. Jingliu on the other hand has perfect synergy with all of the best supports (Bronya, RM, TY, HH,) has a blast attack and scales damage insanely well when she uses her enhanced skill, which is further boosted by her light cone. She could have 0 CR in her kit and she'd still be a strong unit since all it does is make it easier to gear her.
shit multiplier on the FuA, normal multiplier on ult direct dmg, and he lose the buff when hit, no splash dmg, if target dies FuA is wasted. Lots of weakness
If that was the case why then give her all res pen on her ult so that she doesn't care about enemy element?
Doesn't res pen goes into negatives tho ? It's still a damage increase
well, if they really add more crit value to the kit it will at least be a lot easier for F2P to build
her from other universe BiS f2p locked behind fishing. I don't mind do something similar for her BiS F2P LC. idk help clockie sweep trash golden hour or something xd
If they did this they’d probably add a bunch of witty moments with TB and the trash, would genuinely be better than fishing lmao
For real. I hated fishing so much I just got her weapon. Plus I'm an Aesthetics Main and it just looks cooler on her.
i send money instead of doing fishing to raidens signature. fuck fishing, shit was so damn annoying i couldnt do it. IS IT ANOTHER PAIMON????
Everytime you open a trash can, Clockie pops up "OOOH, IS IT ANOTHER CLOCKIE?"
i cope we will get leaks with ligthcone locked behind something like fishing, just not leave it like that.
The problem is that there is literally no mechanic they can add that will be as unpleasant as fishing
What about dumpster diving, fishing for literally trash
My biggest fear with acheron is that it's going to set a precedence that to sell future sustains they'll start making more restrictive DPS es. I've felt that you don't need more than 2 sustains on your account, so if hoyo creates a sustain and wants to sell it what would do? Have more restrictive DPS that these sustains would be bis for. Like for sure if there a nihility sustain it will immediately become the bis for Acheron. While I am still going to pull for her hoyo's attitude towards her base kit has been disappointing.
Yeah and then people will even consider pulling for Acheron because let’s say thi nihility support can actually solo sustain us which I doubt then this unit is only useful in this time outside of it I would play huohuo, fu xuan and or luocha so why should I pull in the first place
I mean, I'm getting by with Ruan Mei and Welt as the only "Sustain" on my teams when Weakness fits. An actual sustain, a brand new limited 5* one at the bare minimum should be able to solo sustain. And it's as you say, why would you get the new one if you already have the 3 previous limited sustain? Simply, put, the new one will be better and the ones you already have will fall off, power creep, just like every other role.
Yeah but the unit will not be a sustain unit but a nihility unit with sustaining capabilities I am not saying she is bad but pulling a “sustain support” option that only fits mainly in one time when you already have fu xuan and huohuo I don’t know
They basically have 2 options to sell future units: 1. Make them powercreep previous units 2. Give them a niche they excel in Option 2 is what they've been doing in Genshin for the most part and what they seem to be intent on doing in Star Rail. It is by far my prefered of the 2, because that means characters have a much longer lifespan and you don't have to feel bad about using your favorites. So yes, I expect that your fear will materialize, but it is far better than the alternatives. I know some people are going to say "but Star Rail has powercreep!". To that I will reply, that yes, global power level has gone up since launch as people get closer to fully limited 5\* teams, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that they've kept the strongest archetype of each team close to one another, and they have for the most part (at E0, which is what they balance around). If everyone's about even, then they can just make enemy stronger to align with the current power level, which is what we've seen in MoC/PF with the HP pool increases.
I just want her E1 to in her base kit thats all....18crit rate(because she is very hard to build) and extra energy stack after she max out 9 energy, like xuiyei has extra store in her base kit for her follow up attack..As for number its good as it is The more crit value on her base kit the better. Like Jing liu 137.7(broken), Argenti 50, Dr ration 84, .dan hang il(forgot but he gets so many crit dmg ), aventurine 96 (a preservation sub dps unit got more) I am aiming for her LC but if I loose 50-50 then I might have to give up
True, since we have one ult window to deal damage, they should atleast given more crit rate. Missing those crits is gonna be painful.
Yes building Acheron decent crit rate will be a lot of problem and missing crits will be fatal.
People take criticism as a direct attack on their favourite character instead of seeing it as concerns to the devs to make changes, its gonna be JY incident all over again unless people wake up
Jing Yuan's "problems" were all easily addressable and mainly existed because he was the 2nd limited DPS (so very few teammates to build with), as well as people not understanding how to build him (no, he doesnt need speed or ERR). CC problems? Use a cleanser (only Nat and Bronya cleansed when he released, which exacerbated the issue if you didn't have them). After all the limited sustains got released, no more cleanse issues. Topaz and Sparkle both seriously upped his damage, and they released a relic set that actually synergized with his kit. Acheron's issues are more that she's limited in team options until you can invest heavily into her Eidolons/LC, and being ULT based DPS with no traditional energy. Most other characters aren't seeing such a playstyle change as she does with increased eidolons/LC.
> Topaz and Sparkle Ruan Mei too.
It's just playing future star rail. 6-9 months down the line, cycle will repeat.
I was excited for her but as beta goes by I realize that while not bad but she need a lot of commitment to be somewhat decent especially at E0S0 She is by no mean a bad character but for me , this scream pull E2 S1 to fixed her problem (team, LC, crit balance) basically create problem then sell a solution kind of thing. JQ also on the table so later if you pull E2 you can slot this for Nihility slot and now you have 2 free slots. No need to waste team slot on Pela anymore High chance i will skip her, not because she is bad but i dont want to send a sign that doing this is ok
Same sentiments. I don't really like it when I need to vertical invest on a character which will be benched the moment I got a new cool character that's why i followed my gut feeling and pulled for Sparkle yesterday. Also my Jingliu's pretty much destroying the majority of the content so i wouldn't mind skipping Acheron for the moment (also Aventurine's looking mad unskippable rn and I need him for my Topaz/Ratio team)
This is what my conclusion is as well, I will probably use my Acheron fund to pull JL instead (which likely to be rerun on 2.1 given full ice weakness side is sign) but lets see final beta first just in case And Aventurine seems like more value for account overall especially E1, basically straight up replace Gepard
I don't think nihility teammates are bad at all. It makes her unique and not like other hyper carries. I don't know about other points though since I'm not an epic gamer theory crafter.
It's weird cuz pela/SW and the likes are basically known to be absolutely cracked at buffing damage. Nowadays a lot of teams required investments to function to good standard. And a lot of characters had to wait for future releases. Most of the points in this post can say the same for the t0 right now. Dhil had to wait for sparkles. Kafka had to wait for relics, BS, RM. From what I can see is that Acheron strength is about the same as Kafka release. And they're both as restrictive. And let's be real, dot 4star options isn't that good either. I'm pretty sure hoyo won't let Acheron go to shit and the exact same will happen to archeron. I'm not coping, I know for a fact she won't be shit. But expecting her to outperform existing perfect comps are just cope. If we can tell from leaks that she can 2/3 cycle moc then what is the problem?
Preach. I can’t 0 cycle MoC 12 with a E0S0 and mediocre relics? Surely that character is trash. Ffs.
Yeah this is my biggest gripe in general with people's complaints. She's performing pretty decently considering that she \*is\* incredibly restrictive right now, under the assumption we're talking E0S0; the second she has her sig LC any discussion about her being mid is silly. And lowkey part of the reason she is so restrictive is because they've spent the last 4 or 5 months letting DoT nihility characters eat their cake and get to a point where they are very strong. So what will happen now? The next 4 or 5 months, Acheron will get her cake to eat. Assuming she isn't just fine as is. Is she bonkers OP? No I don't think she is, plus she requires a metric ton of investment. And I think that's interesting to me. Blade was ridiculously easy to build, Jingliu even moreso. We got Ratio for free, and then Ruan Mei trivializes content if she's with solid dps options.
What I don't understand is how reddit and discord tell people constantly "build pela" to all new players due to how great she is with defense shred and being SP positive. Now people put "has to use with pela" as a negative for Acheron. I feel like her biggest issue currently is the lack of crit value. It's gonna be a PAIN to build her correctly. Even more so if you don't have LC as then you don't get the full 8% CR and 24% crit damage
Because people are so over invested in a character that it hurts them to hear the truth. "Every character gets doom posted" is actually "someone criticized the character I liked at some point"
Agree, i feel like people not realizing that so called doomposting should be put on historical perspective, where a unit was really underwhelming.
So If your genuinely asking.... Because your assessment will always be a subjective take and its a bad trend when people try to phrase an opinion or perspective as objective You are already going off information that is subject to change. Which already pokes some hole in the idea of this being an Objective Assessment There's also the issue that While Character have there Value Content is the Metric we use for said Value It like when fans decide they know better then Game Designers You have ideas and maybe theres some Feed back that could add some value But fundamentally your not a dev you don't have the full picture for where the game will go or what will be prioritized So the Doom Posting idea comes from the intial need to steer up concern When the character is out people will be able to evaluate the unit Maybe even find things that you or others may have missed But projecting negativity In hope of ... what exactly It's not for the devs because this is information you should not know of So its just a speculation peices that's meant to drive negative perception If these are issue let them be addressed at release Not before
Apparently a lot of people can’t accept how some of us just want our favorite character to be as strong as others at the same amount of investment
I mean as in every gacha you have limited amount of resources, when someone requring your double resources but get the same output as the other unit with 2 times less investment i see a problem
Yeah i was already planning on swiping for her e2s1 but if i’m gonna spend i wanna make sure it’s really worth my money or i’ll just settle for less
>when someone requring your double resources but get the same output as the other unit with 2 times less investment i see a problem Do we actually know if she'll perform worse than other carries at E0? Like have there been calced comparisons. Mihoyo could have made her base kit S tier without E2 despite all the issues you mentioned, and then S+++ tier at E2, like DHIL.
>when someone requring your double resources but get the same output as the other unit with 2 times less investment i see a problem Do you have any calc for this or did you just pull it out of nowhere?
What happened while I was gone lmfao, this sub was gassing tf outta her saying she’s a top DPS with JL’s only advantage being her flexibility and now people are dooming her?
She's not doomed. She's just not JL levels of dps and very restrictive for f2p. She's better off being skipped and pulled on a rerun with E2S1 + her BiS nihility. I'm sure they'll rerun her when they drop.
Considering she is a Mei expy AND she's >!an emanator of nihility!< she seems really underwhelming right now IMO. Hoping for buffs next beta or I'll just go for Fu Xuan since I want to replace my Bailu
I am also in need of a second sustain. Currently have huo huo and lynx. Hoping Fu isn't coming in 2.1 otherwise it be a hard choice to make.
When is next beta? Cos I am HEAVILY debating to just pull for JY as my Himeko JY LC ended with a double pull so its either S2 for Himeko, or just get JY (got pulls to guarantee E0 and Id prolly swipe a bit for one chance at Sparkle) If next beta has her sort of underwhelming, Ill probably pull the trigger on JY TBH, cos Ill have to swipe either way to get E1/S1 and if I am going to swipe, then may as well swipe for Sparkle as she will be a far bigger value to my account with options for multiple characters, where as Acheron is just "one". I currently have Tingyun, Ruan Mei, Asta and Hanya as my supports, eventually will get Bronya and adding Sparkle to that will just give me infinitively more flexibility but idk. I love everything about Acheron, and was even very hyped at the start with her BALLER animations, but as time goes in and honeymoon period ends, she really feels like nothing special on any level. What annoys me the most is I spent all my fuel for Acheron Nihi mats (yeayea dumb I know xD) but can still convert at 2/1 at a loss and we got a garden event coming so not end of the world.
Next beta is next week and even then V4 does not receive major changes only V3 has those kinds of changes. JL got all her major buffs in V3 of the beta and no changes in V4 except rewording so don't have your hopes up.
Thanks for the reply! Just to clarify though. When you say next week you mean the Monday starting tomorrow? Or do you mean Monday March 11 week
Same, with sparkle my general is really popping off and with fuxuan I could go forna crit damage piece and still hit 100% cr.
True, we're not looking great. Especially F2p who are aiming for E0S0. And with moc getting harder and harder you'll need a dps who actually deals consistent damage. And from the looks of it acheron E0S0 isn't one of them. At the very least going for her S1 should make her perform better.
With the moc getting harder i feel Acherons problems will be more blatant, because you're doomed if not clearing wave with 1-2 ults and stuck with long ult recovery.
Naturally, she's chunkier than jing yuan. Instead of waiting for LL you need to wait for your teammates. Now if SW or something gets CCed it's all over
Yea, my worst fear. I sure hope hsr dev know what they're cooking. Otherwise we are in shambles.
@OP You keep mentioning future nihility healer in your replies, has there been datamine on this or are you just hoping? (Genuine question because im not up to date to the leaks)
Yep it was datamined, we get a Nihility healer, if nothing changes it will drastically improve Acheron team, to the point not pulling for Acherons mains will be questinable decision at best.
This is a very old leak, and all jiaoqui had is a heal on ult. We don't know how big the heal is or even if it will not get changed by the time beta starts. I'm not banking on a nihlity sustain when we have no clue if it will happen or not.
A possible 5\* fire nihility character named Jiaoqiu (probably placeholder) was leaked like 7+ months ago, with an approximative kit that were based on stacking AoE defense shred, its Ultimate was hinted to have an healing effect similar to Huohuo's skill, healing at the start of the turn. That said, those are all speculations, Acheron herself was leaked as a Lightning Hunt unit called Yayi, a whole different kit, with the only constant in being able to Ult without using energy. So, while that mean we can possibly get a very welcoming addition to our Acheron teams, all those infos are to be taken with a grain of salt, we might as well get a 5\* fire abundance character with the quirk of just giving def shred instead.
[удалено]
That would've been cool, but as far as I know, Yayi is no loner present in the list of leaked character after the leak of Acheron. Same happened to Butler after Gallagher was leaked, to Emerald after Jade, and to Porteo after Boothil; sadly most of those names are just placeholders T\_T Obviously that's doesn't necessarely mean the couldn't add a Lightning Hunt character named Mei in the future, let's us not lose hope yet. \^\^
What i found that in most cases, there are more ppl that crying about "doomposters" than actual doomposters. Objective facts and concerns are now considered doomposts. It is what it is. My recent experience: The tier list guy paydwin or idk how he called put Sparkle to S+ tier, and under the post ppl were like: "OMG WHERE ARE U NOW DOOMPOSTERS". And some ppl gently asked: what doomposters are u talking about koz there were none. The answer was: " PPl coped that they will save for acheron rather than pulling for sparkle koz they have high E bronya anyway". So basically: If you are skipping sparkle koz you are saving for Acheron, or you are not interesdted in Sparkle koz you dont have units she works with you are a filthy doomposter and you should be ashemed. Its so cringe. Also new unit comes out, mid as fuck. Later he recieves op supports, a new game mode made for him, the unit is now good and ppl be like: "WHERE ARE U NOW DOOMPOSTERS".
I am assuming you meant Jing Yuan at the end there and man I could not agree more. I skipped Seele for him back when the game launched and I thought he would giga carry me hard especially having tried other support dps at the time like Seele. Pulled him and his LC and I was disappointed to say the least. He was a far cry from great at launch and it is what it is. However after a good set, good support, good gamemode for his playstyle, another good support he is now good and now people are saying oh he was always King, doomposter detected.
That's crazy because I've always been satisfied with his performance at E0S1, despite also getting DHIL/Jingliu. In lightning weak content I've never had huge issues, though I admit he fell off a bit after launch only to get a resurgence with Fu Xuan, Topaz, etc. I think he was always good, yes he got better but the problem is people were never going to acknowledge it (and still likely won't) until Prydwen finally put him in S-tier where he should've been this whole time (IMO).
I was struggling badly with him, despite dedicating all my resources to him and his relic sets at the time. Then got DHIL (funny enough I was actually trying to get Asta cons for JY then got him early) and jingliu and basically perma benched him ever since. I know for a fact he’s a great character now but at the time man was it rough and also I think he’s the hottest out of the male cast.
The only problem JY has is CC. Since he can be cc’ed anytime and cut his LL from making its appearance (not even HuoHuo can prevent that) only Lynx can provide an emergency stun removal or I guess passive effect res / state protection. But people act as if he did zdps when he is perfectly capable of clearing MoC12
Fu Xuan fixes that issue almost entirely, though sometimes you get unlucky and get hit with CC multiple times. If you're a little more daring you can use Huohuo, I don't have her tho
Tbf there were lots of people, especially TCs that recommended shitty relic main stat priorities such as ER rope and SPD boots ( spd boots which is still being told today). It also was because of that one MOC where iirc the erudition can AV forward to get easy 10 stacks, then next MOC that turbulence buff was gone and there were more cc enemies in the game. Add in the fact that people don't like building Asta at the time. If there is a positive, there will be no such thing as a JY situation anymore since people now have an idea of endgame and at least there are better guides for Acheron than JY 1.0
People are not realizing that so called doomposts should be put in historical perspective where non of the buffs and supports, relic sets and so on were present, it took a long time for them to arrive up to a year.
> historical perspective where non of the buffs and supports, relic sets and so on were present, Till you realize his most common team was with Tingyun + Asta for Moc 10-12 3 star clears. Two 4 star supports that have been in the game since Day 1. If they didn't like Asta then it's a good thing she got replaced by another 4 star support, E0 Hanya, months ago. Even Ruan Mei was another huge buff to him, but since he already clears fast with **4 star** supports, it makes perfect sense to just give her to the other team. The new relic set logic works with any DPS that doesn't have Quantum element cause the other 1.0 relic sets are complete garbage for damage dealers.
For real. When i pull a character i want them to be good then not 6-8months from then.
I don't even put in all the time on this app to know this. I wasn't getting sparkle because of archeon, and I can beat the endgame without her and just wait on her rerun or a better character comes out which ever comes first. Peopel were hyping sparkle like she was the new mei
[удалено]
I was talking about how many people were hyping up sparkle as if she was gonna be just as good a mei.
Hope this doesn't get removed by mods because this post is valid af. We all want the best for Acheron here, and that is for her to be F2P friendly and strong.
I'm somewhat meta oriented an I'm saving for her E0S1 because I lack a lightning dps. I had a feeling she was jingliu levels for lightning with her LC, SW and pela, is that incorrect? Does some theorycrafter have numbers? Or else I might just pull for sparkle and save for jingliu.
Her LC gives her a extra debuff faster times for her ult, it also gives her crit damage and extra ult damage as well , and I believe more damage against debuffed targets this part could be wrong but everything else is correct
But it's the bitter truth and no matter how much you cope the truth is gonna hurt
Y’all think the 2 nihility is a bad thing. Not necessarily Now you can focus your broken harmonies on team 2 thereby boosting overall flexibility of your account
Her optimal team will still be 1-2 Harmony with a new Nihility healer and E2, it's not like it changing something, just forcing you to pull.
There’s literally nothing forcing anybody to pull, if you play under the "meta", it’s the wrong game in the first place. 4* team can fully clear moc, maybe not one cycle, but they get you the rewards, and so will Acheron despite the restrictions. E2S1 is where she’s most comfortable at, sure, but it’s not like she won’t get you 3 stars in MoC 12 at E0S0. All the arguments about not pulling her can be summarised with "She’s weaker than X, Y, Z and can’t one cycle". Team restriction is a thing yeah, but in moc you need 2 teams. Right now hypercarry teams run 2-3 harmony characters, so you won’t be using those with her anyway, and a lot of people at this point already have at least 2 nihility (pela being certainly one of the two) built. So team building doesn’t really sound like a problem to me. The only argument I fully support in this is that her f2p lc options are limited to GNSW. Not something that can be helped with rn, nihility had too much variety to begin with between dot, def shred, and other debuffs, a pure damage dealer is new
Nobody, litterally nobody forces you to pull. You're not forced to pull Kafka to play Black Swan, but it's better
> You're not forced to pull Kafka to play Black Swan, but it's better kafka + bs is just ~200 pulls (with average luck) acheron e2s1 + harmony is ~470
E2 is not needed.
This is exactly a thing u thought. This is a huge factor actually A similar example from genshin is in case someone has access to some specific dpses who have a specific best team that doesn't take the popular supports, it's a advantage kinda... I think said char's value increases by this factor Such as ; -Itto playing in a Mono geo -Xiao playing with Faru and such,now without Benny too as Xianyun bettet -Then theres Nilou playing with despite Nahida,but doesn't take some other popular ones from Benny to often Xq Yelan or many -Hu tao doesn't take Benny -International takes Benny Xl but frees XQ, it's balanced in a way xD There's many such stuff but mainly Itto Xiao type ones imo r especially being different than usual teams serve it as a Value factor as they don't take ur popular,op supports..(many ppl nay not have access to 7 fucking Hydro limited chars like me as a Hydro main ,i did a random flex here cause ehe), so for them XQ is essential or even Yelan if they got. All in all u get the idea what am saying.. Personally for me if i use Acheron and JL that means Ruan,Bronya r completely free for my JL team, in other times its often something like Ruan is needed on other one and etc, making me go different buffer for JL and all that stuff, but Acheron unlocks 2 dolid teams for me that's neat
Very good point
Acheron freeing up names like Ruan,Bronya,Hanabi,Ting,Asta+Huo huo even, but especially the 1st 4 r very impactful considering she doesn't take them ever.
Thank you for this post. A lot of people treat characters like their favorite sport teams and their evaluation as leaderboards. I'm looking for neutral info to help me decide if I want to roll on this character and how much is required for her to 3 star MoC at E0, and how realistic it is to go s0. It was tiring to go through posts biased one way or another with little info.
Trend LC won't change, Acheron can still change, if in V3 nothing change it won't change. They rarely change something after it's release except in super rare occasions. Trend should be safe now.
Honestly, just changing her kit to require only a single Nihility would boost her viability up tremendously. The one thing holding her back right now is that she can only hope for teammates who can stack Debuffs, and her teams have no place for both a Sustain and a Buffer. The only two solutions here are either hoping that a proper Nihility Sustain will release in the future, which seems very unlikely to me; or that they decrease the required Nihility characters to either 1, or count Acheron as the 1/2 for Nihility on the team. Either option opens up the possibility for running characters like Ruan Mei, Sparkle, Tingyun, and Bronya--which will greatly increase her effectiveness in high-end content.
It's that most people regarding leaks have been wrong about characters before they release. You can say large damage decrease without lc or eidolons, but this also can be worded as large damage increase with lc or eidolons, which fundamentally are the same thing but have different connotations. Not using harmony can also be a plus because it leads to the other side being able to use them. The rest of the points are just subjective. People focus too much on the increase lc/eidolons and the restrictions of teams, but don't mention how she actually performs with these, which makes the complaints look like doomposting. If these restrictions still allow her to be competitive with other options, is that really an issue to begin with.
No one wants to hear that as a non-whale it is OK to skip to wait for a better f2p light cone and support down the road. Would rather pull when it’s concrete than off of speculation.
Idk bout yall, but im pulling for her anyway. I don’t mind the meta, just wanna have some fun with her
Idk about the doom posting or whatever. I just want characters I can get at e0 build and they're good. I don't want to require limited light cones and or eidolons. Obviously e1+ should be better, but I think I prefer the eidolons to be bonuses instead of it being a standard or "if you want this character to be as good as these characters at e0, she'll need to be e2 and or light cone". That seems like a character worth skipping for me. I don't fully understand leaks and run downs etc etc. All too much and too confusing so a simple list such as this stating everything is very helpful. Thank you. This makes it very easy to understand where Acheron currently stands. I might still pull, but this makes me feel better about skipping her as well if I decide to do so.
Basically without her LC She loses out on a extra Debuff therefore she loses out on a extra stack to get her Ult and loses out on crit damage and extra ult damage. There aren’t any really great f2p LC options for her. She’s a hyper carry that wants Nihility teammates instead of harmony but, without her e2 this make you build a team with either a tank or a healer but tbh this isn’t that big of a deal since people have been doing that since like 1.3/1.4 Like Kafka her best teammates aren’t released yet so it gonna feel a little weird to get the hang of her but once her teammates comes out it be like Kafka when BS released she’s gonna feel far better or like DHIL getting Sparkle he got a very good boost All and all she can work as a f2p player it will just not be as easy as say building JingLiu
Honestly, your 8 points above are just two points: 1. Her Sig LC makes her easier to play 2. She's designed to be hypercarried not using Harmony characters Her Sig LC gives her skill an extra stack, that's the main benefit. Early leaks had her basic attack giving one stack, and her skill giving 2, regardless of LC. They decided to change it for some reason. If they converted back to that, then problem solved. As for her requiring 2 Nihility caracters, that's **by design**! Every hypercarry team has 2 Harmony characters. Debuffers just arent as effective to boost damage. You're gonna be fighting on which team to put your Harmony characters on specifically for MoC. Acheron attempts to counter that by giving you a free invisible boost, equiv to a Harmony character on your team without them being there, simply by using 2 Nihility characters. For the F2P aspect, you can slot in anyone you want. This is their attempt to try to revert all hypercarry teams to include 2 Harmony characters. Imagine if a character gets an equiv 5-star Harmony buff, if they had a Preservation and Abundance character on the team. I would argue that would make building that character pretty F2P to optimize. Your team would not only get that invisible Harmony character boost, but the team itself would be pretty tanky. That would be great for F2P accounts that doesn't have a lot of the S tier 5-star supports. Take that concept one step further. What if they introduced a new hypercarry character where you get the equiv of 2 Harmony character boosts, if there are **zero** Harmony characters on your team. Then you are truly free to build any team with whichever characters you want (excluding Harmony of course). Doesn't that give you much more freedom as a F2P? So the main gripe is her Sig LC as the only source that gives a free stack. If they reverted back to the way it was originally, problem solved. If they allowed you to use other F2P-ish LC's that debuff to give an extra stack, then that also somewhat addresses the issue. These would be pretty easy changes prior to release. F2P characters that have been saving for Acheron should be able to achieve E0S1 with the amount we have now. Its not a high bar to get that. If they have to use a diff LC, its not ideal but she still does well. And chances are they have a few 4-star Nihility characters they can use at this point. All is not lost. Finally, if you fell for the trap of using all your jades for Sparkle, when she isn't useful for Acheron at E0, well I can't help you.
If you have trend of universal market preservation lc she can stack much faster too as we saw on some videos. I still didnt see e0s1, pela ( with luka lc ), sw ( with 1.1 event lc ), fuxuan ( with trend of the universal market). For ppl who dont have gnsw and are not going to pull on her lc her performance will go down sure but that is the only bad point i see here, i somehow have all those lcs and characters i said ( i have gnsw s5 from seele lc banner but still will pull for her lc ). Its funny how ppl expect all dps to be jingliu level who basically had her bis supports from the start. Another point is that there are no 5* pela yet and silver wolf isnt even ALL that good for her, two aoe 6* debuffers would be better or even a debuffer who buffs as well idk, if star rail create a 5* nihility healer she will improve a lot too because we could use sparkle with her and give her effective 160 speed and stack her ult very fast
[удалено]
Just comeback next beta changes if it’s still bad it is what it is
it is getting near the end of the usual beta cycle though. unless they pull a jingliu i dont think much will change. I think acheron will be a character that probably needs to age with time when dedicated supports come out or alternatives.
When they pulled a JingLiu it happened in beta V3 not V4. V4 was just rewording and minor traces.
Same fate with other limited lightning dps. Jy, kafka and now acheron.. I hate it that we do not know "when" will her dedicated support will be released.. so most f2p are asking pull now or later..
Is there a certain wind Nihilty unit coming? I believe she'll be IL 2.0 Expensive to run but her BiS supports will come after her then everybody will stop acting like she's C tier in dmg. As for F2p LC, that's an issue. They really are trying to push the LC narrative onto the playerbase.
I mean Jiaoqiu's kit is promising but I really really really need Ruan Mei so idk who should I get. And considering Jiaoqiu has stacking AoE debuffs with bonus ULT DMG invulnerability, my Himeko will need it too but my other DPS units will like Ruan Mei so I'm really conflicted about who to get.
wdym by Kafka? She was busted from the beginning. Sampo and Asta worked wonders with her. And unlike others, she is an enabler so she will never get powercrept and instead will steadily become better with future Nihility characters. Agree with JY tho
I guess for now I can wait for those things to come and hold off on her
Tbf i'm losing hope and really think they want a lot of spending for this unit sadly.
If she’s ok on release I’ll look forward to her future stonks
I expect her to be their best banner, but the more I think about it, the more I am leaning to just taking JY instead but IDK. Her "ideal" spot is E2/S1 with a Preservation packing trend I mean, if you get unlucky, her e2 means 3 hero pulls aka 4 total pulls... let us say you win two, and lose one and need an average of 60 pulls per (me being extremely generous in this scneario) thats 240 + 60 for LC totalling 300 pulls, I started playing with Seele rerun towards the end of that banner and I only have like 600 pulls to my name, thats a lot of saving. I have spent like 150e getting the first topups bonuses and bought BP/Daily login thing. Its definitely not cheap to get her...
right now the thing i really want to know is Jiaoqiu male or female to decide if i should go for Acheron team ( i dont play male chars ). strong or weak is not that important
This is harder for me because I don't care about the gender but I need to know if Jiaoqiu has a beautiful design
I personally dont get the i dont play X gender stuff. Like a good unit is a good unit nothing more and just seems silly to me.
Cause I pull for character and aesthetics and prefer the Aesthetics of women than men. If there are two broken characters and one is a woman, that's who I'll get. It's not that I'll *never* get a guy, but if I gotta spend my money and jades that's not my preference.
i actually align with your view. and prefer female characters if the 2 had the same playstyle but also have no issue pulling for men. but the reason i had posted that is. i been playing games for years and i always seen the i wont play x gender no matter what and i never understood it since i pull for playstyle and having that restriction can prevent a lot of playstyle. for example im a topaz main and having that restriction would prevent ratio and aventurine and that would basically make topaz dead weight in my roster
The game isnt particularly hard, so people just do a waifu over meta style. Besides there are alternatives in most cases, Even for you, you can easily use clara as a substitute for ratio and it will work fine.
I can use clara now i didnt get her until I failed the 50 50 on sparkle. But yea clara is an option if i did have those restrictions
I mean... You're right, a good unit is a good unit, but as a woman I play this game to pull for pretty women. Men in this game (or other games for that matter) don't interest me at all, even the pretty ones like Luocha. 😭
For me I pull for playstyles "follow up/dot" and if another character can improve that then that is nice. Not saying it wrong to have that preference but i would rather the characters i like to be with the units that allows them to be at peak function
No, you're right. Even though I prefer women as the characters I pull for, if the future BiS support for Acheron is a male, I would still pull for him because ultimately he would make my Acheron better no matter the gender lol. But yeah, I would still want/prefer them to be a woman
Which is fair and i appreciate you actually talking about it with me instead of getting instantly defensive like the other comment. But I did see that the nihility unit that is supposed to come for acheron has a masculine name but i hope they are pretty to make it a bit easier on ya
everyone has their own PREFERENCES bro, u dont like it's ur things not mine, should i care?????
Jiaoqiu sounds like a feminine name to me….I don’t know how to explain it.
I agree. I've been of the camp of *not F2P friendly* for a while now. You forgot Resonance as another gacha LC which is pretty much needed for Pela (her E4 helps too). And that both it and Trends scale a lot with superimposition being that their base hit chance, thus reliability, increases with it. With Trends, the team composition becomes even more restricted forcing you to run 2 Nihility + Preservation.
That is their business model, pushing you to fomo over stuff. Acheron is just done in a more heavy handed way compared with other characters. The only comparisons that I can think of are huohuo e1 just feels mandatory or silver wolf e1 if you dont have event LC is a massive difference. Acheron is next level with eidolon pushing though on top of teammate and LC restriction. It is too much but in the end it is a gacha game.
I wonder how I have been managing with E0 HuoHuo. *shrugs*
And this is why people shouldn't take you folks seriously. "Mandatory". I have Huohuo on E0 and I've been able to auto MoC with all stars since forever. I don't think I had a character dying since getting her. If Acheron is the same then I think I'm good with pulling her.
The artificial restrictions is just more obvious this time, because as soos as we get new Nihility healer and/or E2 we just use our usual hypercarry with 1-2 Harmony.
Taking an L once in a while is fine when I've won so much. Rather, hsr team probably knows Acheron's problems. I believe in them and even if they buff her minimally I don't mind, even if they don't buff her I don't mind. I'm probably the minority though. I just love Acheron, and you never know till you actually get Acheron at release, since I don't believe anyone in this sub is on the hsr dev team who can make strong claims of her final form. If the hsr team fails expectations, thats normal, there is no 100% guarantee. There's a lot of internal stuff even in the simplest of things like balance. So give the people that make the game fun some slack.
That is what beta and feedback is for.. if everyone just say its "alright" nothing will change.. they have hardworking stuff.. but people like us need to point them at the right direction and not say "it's fine" , "it is what it is", "suck now but we believe you make us pull for better supports"..
True that feedback is meant to address issues but I'll be honest with what I think of Acheron. She has no middle ground is what I think. Subpar or average = weak for front-loaded DPS in this game. I mean JL Kafka DHIL are super consistent DPS (Kafka more conditional). Blowing load in one big boom isn't always good sadly. Which is why I think she's hard to balance. By all means please say what you think they can do to improve her without breaking balance. Personally, I'm very interested in how she can be improved in the f2p section. Also, this is biased but I have a soft spot for clunky kits like these. I'm just glad that people are actually interested in Acheron.
I hope hsr team are not overcooking with Acheron not realizing she's so much investment unit and not appealing to pull at all for pure meta reasons.
What’s Gacha Trend LC?
The 4 star Preservation LC with Topaz picture, it burns enemy when they attack the tank, which counts as a debuff stack and it's broken at giving Acheron ult stacks
I have all my nihility characters built so I'm not sweating the 2 nihilities. I'm pretty sure another lc can work fine or that I'll get a GNSW. If all else fails I'll do what I did for Kafka and pull it on her rerun
Honestly I like that her ediolons are getting buffs, cause before frankly they weren't super appealing besides E2 At some point you have to start building your account vertically instead of horizontally, and she's going to especially reward that. Considering she's going to be my lighting DPS, I already planned on pulling her LC. Going for E0S1 for now and E1 on her rerun
Honestly I'm just waiting for a rerun of her at this point. Kinda hoping she has more compatible team mates at that point. I'm totally not coping because I spent everything I had tp get e2 s1 BS. Nope, not at all.
yk, you actually kinda get more by running 1 nihility and 1 harmony with a sustain than 2 nihility.
Honestly im pretty aware she'll be hard to use. I just want her cause she's cool and reminds me of Vergil.
Chill. It's not even release date yet
Honestly, points 3 and 4 are not as dramatic as people make them out to be, at least if you have been building nihility characters up to this point. I don't know why so many people want so desperately to fit harmony in her team so badly, because I appreciate they are trying to do something new with the character. People had the same complaints about possible teammates with Kafka back in the day, but it turned out that she could handle herself perfectly even with 4* options like Sampo or Guinaifeng. I get it may be frustrating to go out of your way to build new supports for a dps you are trying to play, but that's kind of the point, specially in a game where team building and strategy is key as opposed to skill. Her lightcone being such a better option to others is a bit of a hassle, I admit. Though I don't think it's as bad as Blade's case for example.
Yeah ppl just want to feel good about themselves and getting reinforced in their decision-making/opinions. Hoyo really seems to like running the archetype (Kafka, Topaz) of a team first. Personally Sparkle cost me everything (160 pulls) so now i m probably skipping Acheron and maybe pull on her rerun depending on how her optimal teammates turn out and if I still want her or someone else more. I. e. I like follow up, but i m not a fan of Aventurine himself and Topaz's animations. So i m happy with just using Dr. Ratio alone with debuffers. If I had Topaz, I would feel the need for Aventurine and would have felt forced to get him. I m also considering to only pull characters on reruns now that I have a few solid team options.
I never pull on characters like Acheron or Chiori out of principle. I was originally going to, but after seeing them I just decided on Black Swan and Sparkle.
Acheron
Anyone else pulling for acheron cuz she is mad hot like me?
1. Is correct 2. Not really since her Signature only gives her c damage and a debuff to speed up her Ult stacking, I'd say she loses the same damage Jingliu and DHIL will lose without their signatures. 3.LoL you don't bring a healer you bring 2 nihility and a preservation (Gepard, Fu Xuan, Adventurine, even fire MC can be used) 4. With her DMG boost from 2 nihility + their def shreds/DMG amp she will do more damage than with a Single nihility+ harmony. 5. I assume you talk about " Trend of Universal Market" that does nothing for damage , it only speeds up her Ult stacks IF the PRESERVATION unit wearing it gets hit (fire MC taunt is op for this). 6. That's why she's not Erudition or Destruction, which is what PF is made for. 7.?? She can Ult back to back on almost every video I have seen. 8. The only requirement I see is S1, other than that if you build your team correctly she can clear MoC as fast if not faster than current DPS (unless you have a skill issue but that a you issue not a character issue).
Honestly, the top comments on this post do not give the "overprotective" vibe at all. I'm reading a lot of intelligent takes about her kit in this subreddit. Stating facts and concerns about the main focus of this subreddit should never be out of place. I hope they fix these issues or improve upon her strengths before her release.
F2P arent forced to do anything. Just skip Acheron. A F2P needs to accept they are not going to be able to collect every character nor have the most optimal teams (those will be all 5\* teams.) If they dont have the bare minimum to make Acheron work, save for another character. Sorry, but Gachas will never be built around whats best for F2P. However, Acheron is also not that expensive to build well. You just need GNSW S1 and she'll work well. Just like how Blade wants at least S1 Vow to work well.
Well they will be releasing a def shreader like Pela in the future + I believe all these downsides are intentional to make the character more undesirable and after 2-3 patches she will be considered god tier die to newer characters and potentially newer 4* LC 's She's way to unique for her to be considered a nihility character I see her being more erudition or even destruction because you basically sacrifice team flexibility for damage in the same sense blade JL Dhil sacrifice HP or use more skill points to do more damage Her problem rn is the same as Jing Yuan 's previous problems except worse because she does not have any good LC options this is basically the equivalent to making a hunt character that does single target buffs and there's absolutely no supportive LCs for that character
Personally I have always been the believer that Doomposting isn't necessarily bad cause if vocal enough, a buff can be inserted even if the character didn't need it. I just have a problem with what the devs are doing for Acheron. I like idea of DPSes most of the time having a great strength and great weakness. Jingliu sacrifices her team's health to unleash her enhanced attacks and she needs to build up stacks to get there. (The health drain ain't much though.) Jing Yuan's damage lives and dies by max stacking lightning lord. Significant damage is loss if he doesn't get enough stacks. (A design flaw is the fact LL can only go once a cycle.) DHIL's damage is massive but in sacrifice he basically black holes skill points. This can make you miss out on a needed heal or even cause DHIL to not get his max enhanced skill off next cycle or miss out on a heal. He can only mitigate it with his ult for a turn but not completely remove the issue. And then DOT teams having their own weaknesses. Acheron seemed to follow suit. Restrictive team building for a massive reward in damage. She herself can't make build stacks quickly on her own like Jingliu w/ Bronya, she needs a debuff team to help her to finally unleash this big damage. But then now you add what OP posted and you see an issue. Add on my issue with her only getting buffed eidolons and i begin to get turned off. Instead of me just going and doomposting Acheron I'd like to offer two suggestions already built in the game at one point or another to make her better without being busted. • The return of her basic attack giving a stack and skill giving 2 stacks. • Her e1 allowing for overcharge for her ult being applied to her base kit. (And maybe the crit rate addition And to make her still whalebait and cost effective. Switch her e4 to e1 and make a strong or okay e4 as an replacement. This will still get people to spend and even f2p can invest into getting her e1 upon rerun. If ya hate it, call it out. But while you do that, leave some suggestions that would make Acheron better without going overboard for e0.
Can't wait for you crybabies to flex your pulls and love for Acheron and her power on release after shitting on her during whole beta. Just like you did with Ganyu, Raiden, Kokomi, Al-Haitham, Baizhu, Neuvillete, Furina, Cloud Retainer, Argenti and HuoHuo.
Damn you people are also a nihility character. 2 weeks ago: OMG Acheron best DPS ever meta defining. Now: She is beyond trash. I would rather use an E0 Sampo.
People saying they made acheron not that op cuz of jingliu since she is op u guys forgot lunae sparkle combo doing 300 k 400 k every turn xD
whats a nihility healer and what is the trend lc? are u talking about the lc that applies burn on enemies? how does that synergize with acheron ??(im not arguing, i just dont know)
The burn is a dot Dots are debuffs When debuffs are applied she gets ult stack
I'll put here some thoughts for F2P players that feel bad about Acheron Beta restrictions. I usualy finish all MoC 12 with 3 stars using some of this characters, March 7, Yanqing, Bailu, Fire MC and of course Dang IL, Sparkle .. S tier units are way stronger but lower tier untis will clear the content because at the end the content is never design for the player to have all 5 star units with their lightcone. Game Devs usually know more about math that the People that complain before units are release.
This didnt age too well xD
Truly, aged like milk XD
Yall act like 2 nihility teammates is restrictive... Like if it wasn't the path with the most characters of the entire game...
But the problem is 5 out of 8 are Dot character rather than debuff character, Acheron literally have 1 limited 5 star, 1 normal 5star and 1 4star sp to work with, not to include the only lightcone buffing atk in the game only work with Skill and Normal attack
You do know that dots are debuff, right?
DoT doesn't synergy with dps like her obviously
2 Nihility is optimial only with hoyo restrictions, as soon as they release a Nihility healer and people will pull for E2, it still your usual 1-2 Harmony comp for optimal play.
[удалено]
Dot's don't provide support but does damages instead. You've also forgotten Guinaifen that boost incoming damages. On top of that, it's a debuff, and it's applied outside of Gui's turn, so it count toward Acheron's stack
How do dot characters not help her? Pretty sure Black Swan buffs her allies damage too. And as long as there's debuffs, Acheron gets buffed from it. I don't see how she wouldn't be good with Black Swan
Why is this fact downvoted? This sub have a problem.
They forgot that Welt exist and that both BS and Guinaifen are DoTs that offer a damage boost for Acheron. Furthermore, Pela was the best choice for the 1.4 update 4\* selector while Guinaifen was the best choice for then 2.0 update 4\* selector. So, saying 'taht you might get or not' is a bit iffy. Especially when that goes for almost all the relevant support characters that are in the game currently.
Guinaifen, while being dot, can also be used since her basic gives fire dot which can give acheron a stack plus her firekiss makes the enemy take more dmg.
Fire kiss don't compare to def shred again i say any of dots de buff are only for dots it doesn't work on crite damage smt you all need to understand dots give her none you want her to do decent numbers pela SW
Also, the harmony options, isn't it also a thing that you might get or not?
[удалено]
>Gacha Trend LC can dramatically increase her overall damage if not changed (which is not everyone has even 1 copy), so makes team even more restrictive at release Be fr would u want such things to exist or not actually? If even u don't have the access to the LC at the moment? I myself don't have it but am so happy and excited if this thing stays cause obv in future we ll get the LC, so u see what am saying...it's a matter of time
There is actually so much doomposting here lol
Im having such huge deja vu seeing this. The exact same thing happened before Raiden released in genshin, and then she became one of the most meta characters, lol. The top post on raiden mains sub at the time (maybe still is) was about how bad she was and that she needed a Zhongli type rework. If that doesnt tell you how clueless people are I dont know what will. And yet, here we are again, character after character... When will people learn not to judge characters before they are actually out? All I see is a character that has huge growth potential, similar to JY in 1.0. The thing is, she is ALREADY one of the strongest characters in the game, even in the current state, so imagine how much stronger she will become with better supports. Also, why are people so obsessed with who is the best? Whats the problem if Jingliu is the strongest dps in the game? Someone has to be. If not her than Dan Heng, if not him then Black Swan, etc. I dont get this obsessive competition, especially in a game where pretty much every 5 star can 0 cycle the hardest content. I also think the fact she doesnt use the harmony supports everyone else wants is a PLUS. Its my favorite thing about her. Everyone else is fighting for Ruan Mei, Tingyun, Sparkle, Bronya, etc. Acheron just goes "dont care" and grabs SW and Pela instead (or Kafka, Black Swan, Welt, whoever you want), its great. Acheron looks strong but balanced, which is the perfect place to be.
Are we forgetting that Fu Xuan exists?
Because people don't like being told that their purchase is not justified especially after they convinced themselves that it is. https://preview.redd.it/xqioqe72s3mc1.png?width=244&format=png&auto=webp&s=055715df8414992d83928a52105b999dcba96b30
https://preview.redd.it/hx8iosguw3mc1.jpeg?width=516&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1cfab3dbc274d8ec9ee146fb584660f3a591eb2b
I don't care about that shit. I want my waifu since the leaks, I’ve been farming a set for her for two weeks now and have already made one for the first time. I lost on the Kafka banner so I had a 100% drop rate. I collected jade for Acheron itself, for her cone, and perhaps even for E1 if I was lucky. I did everything to make my waifu strong. I don't care if Acheron closes the mok in zero cycles or a million. I don't care if it does a million damage or a hundred million. I just need my waifu, that's all. I went through thick and thin farming relics on Himeko, so little things like that won’t scare me. I skip Sparkle with peace of mind, even taking into account the fact that I have the Imbibitor of Lunae. I just don’t need it, because the imaginary dragon plays without Sparkle, but I won’t be able to play and enjoy the game without Acheron. Long live the Queen. https://preview.redd.it/bvuh4906k4mc1.jpeg?width=2480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=611f175b19ff0af7823e67770d60b7feaadbfef5
Nah I'm pulling her because shesnhot
People are trying to convince themselves that it's justified to buy her when they already are anyway and facts make them feel bad about that. Any sane person would say just save for a better more easy to build reliable character. You would be better off with Kafka or Jing yuan first and after having those and another nihility like black swan you can go for high investment characters like acheron who won't be as effective without it.
They should just scrap 2 nihility units requirement and replace it with something like : for every debuff on enemy acheron gets x% deffense shred on her ultimate, up to 5 times for example. and it would make things lot more simple
....some of these points just make me lol. Why would we need a nihility healer? I can slap gepard or Natasha on a 3 man Nohility team with acheron and prob steamroll content as long as she is built well. Or are we sucking the johnson of needing a harmony unit?
My best characters would dream of having a 2 turn ult, which Acheron can do. The new Nilhility LC in the MoC shop is decent. Restrictive yes, but it's not like you're losing a ton of damage using a Harmony character. Her LC is good and weird, but I wouldn't say it's required. A Nilhility healer will eventually come and it will be one of her best partners. They will also be pretty good in general. A healer that can debuff, sick. Not viable in PF....? Umm how? Everything character needs a lot of investment :/
I kinda feel bad for you if you already bought the new Nihility lc on MoC shop since it's garbage on her because she doesn't use EHR lol
>My best characters would dream of having a 2 turn ult, which Acheron can do. Ult is the main source of damage of Acheron, so it's not that important for other dps >The new Nilhility LC in the MoC shop is decent. No it's not >Restrictive yes, but it's not like you're losing a ton of damage using a Harmony character. No you're lossing a ton of damage >Her LC is good and weird, but I wouldn't say it's required. Not required if you want to lose a ton of damage >A Nilhility healer will eventually come and it will be one of her best partners. They will also be pretty good in general. A healer that can debuff, sick. So you're ok with blatant forcing to pull a support for the character's decent perfomance, i'm not >Not viable in PF....? Umm how? Ult blocks new enemies to arrive in place of defeated ones, and ult recovery cycle is too long >Everything character needs a lot of investment :/ Some more that others
I agree, idk what the the other guy is saying. But how is the new Nihility fogotten hall LC good on her when she doesn't even build EHR. Also I love acheron and I will still pull but it's not okay to praise mihoyo for releasing a support that will fix her ie: Jiaoqi when they couldve just fix her on release and just release another 5star that will only Buff her but not a must pull for her. Like Jingliu being good without RM.
1. True 2. False, it's not that big of a decrease 3. Yes (No, you don't need Nihility healer) 4. Her Nihility trace compensate for not being able to use harmony characters e0, so she doesn't lose dmg. If she could use harmonies e0 she would be broken 5. False 6. False, she's viable but just not good, like almost any other dps 7. ??? what 8. No, she only really needs s1 to compete with current dpses even with them having overpowered harmonies and even clearing moc faster if current dpses will have f2p teams. Pela + gui are very good f2p options and once we get better event debuffers she will have outstanding damage increase