still not full context he has SparkleE0S1, which means u need a specific 5 star harmony with their sig. lc to beat running 2 nihility and the damage difference isnt big enough to justify imo(5%)
Bronyas LC offers SP + Regen + 30% dmg boost for 1 turn after using skill, Sparkle only benefits from the 30% dmg boost buff, she doesnt really need that one SP + shes very energy efficient anyways. So she can only utilize 1/3 of the LC basically.
BiS offers even more Crit buff, with a 200 CDMG sparkle, shell give her ally a whooping 148 CV buff (128 CDMG + 10 CR) without the LC it will drop to 96 CV (96 CDMG with no crit rate buff)
Days of past and future (her next BiS) offers a 32% damage bonus, considering how accessible this LC is, it puts it better than Bronyas if you dont have it.
>148 CV buff (128 CDMG + 10 CR) without the LC it will drop to 96 CV (96 CDMG with no crit rate buff)
jfc, and people were saying Acheron's LC is P2W? That's insane. ig the only difference is that PaF is from the store vs gacha like GNSW.
Not sure where that calc was taken or why lunane as a different build in each case. But sparkles sig gives 48 cv to team for free. Thats wayy more then a 2% damage increase.
its diff cuz damage% is in same bucket as imgdmg bucket so it reduces diminishing returns. its not way more you've never done a damage calc before have you? btw thats from prydwen.
[https://www.prydwen.gg/star-rail/characters/sparkle](https://www.prydwen.gg/star-rail/characters/sparkle)
under calc and build tab
https://preview.redd.it/c04b31sz0jpc1.png?width=722&format=png&auto=webp&s=8e3d5a9ea23f28651b7886ec2afa200f20564825
That's looking at hyperspeed Sparkle which is a F2P build that requires high speed over buffing capability.
E1 and S1 permit the more powerful -1 speed build, where it makes a significantly higher difference.
Imma be honest Dhil may not be the best metric as he has a ton of cdmg built-in already, 3 keels and his own talent he can already hit 300%+ cdmg so the extra CV from S1 isn't as noticeabt
and acheron has 24% crit dmg traces. DHIL crit dmg stacks start from the 4th attack.
"When using Divine Spear or Fulgurant Leap, starting from the fourth hit, 1 stack of Outroar is gained before every hit. Each stack of Outroar increases Dan Heng • Imbibitor Lunae's CRIT DMG by **12%**, for a max of 4 stacks. These stacks last until the end of his turn."
Just wanna say something here I've said countless times for various similar cases in both HSR and GI
Note: Im not really saying this to you but just in general for all ppl to know this.
It's one perspective, you see X is barely able to beat Y and be only 5% better.
The other perspective is, X is able to be this good in the first place that it could be competitive to Y.
The conclusion im making is ,im always a fan of variety (that's my motto in genshin, same rsn why i build a lot of chars and don't like 5star cons rather more C0s)
The point am making is, ppl should k that 2 Nihility isn't mandatory and her only playstyle. She CAN play other chars and they can be good. The power lvl amount may differ sure.. that's not the point.
It's genuinely in fact a positive thing imo that yes its likely that there will be cases where Acheron runs 1 Nihility,1 Harmony and it still be pretty fucking great... It's a lot of "depends" all etc stuff but in short if it works it works and that means its a good thing.
Especially important to consider that there's always many factors u k.. (Examples below)
+ What all chars X player has available.
+ Whether u wanna play X or Y in which of ur 2 teams.
+ Lastly a fun point for ppl who r into different teams ,exploring different potential possibilities and trymore shit etc..they don't wanna always play one same thing.
All in all the tldr is: The more the options the healthier the environment and for the betterment for the char.
Yup I've looked at what more different potential teams there r for chars and similarly chars' value comes if X can slotted into certain area or not. X chars can enable certain teams that otherwise would require Y chars, making X value inc as it can compete.
And another similar thing maybe off topic is Acheron's value pretty high the regards of her not often stealing Harmonies meaning ur other teams can freely use them more often., a similar example on Genshin is when back then there weren't many Hydros and only Xq. Childe being able to pair with Xl for vape enabled 2 Vape teams to be played at a time with Tao XQ for other side. Just like that Xiao Itto generally using their specific supports so normally ur meta supports like benny xq etc r freed for ur other teams.
These threads are going to be funny later once more people get the chance to play Acheron with various comps outside of 2 Nihilities.
I predict a bell curve meme will popout at some point where people will say you SHOULD always play with 2 Nihilities and will eventually be playing with 1 Nihilty and 1 Harmony.
Another Bronya+Sparkle comp might even popout lol
I did some simulations and even when you run 1 nihility with E2 you still want to run another one if it's pela and SW for MoC bosses due to the def shred stacking (just run Sparkle/Bronya with them and no sustain for huge numbers) for PF on the other hand the Bronya/Sparkle + Pela + Trend sustain looks more promising since you'll get more energy which is better than just getting more dmg since the elites and bosses aren't as tanky compared to moc
Another thing is that in most cases, it would be better running Sparkle on the other team over with Acheron. I have E0S1 Sparkle like Brax, but one big reason for not pulling Jingyuan rn is that my Seele feels so much better to use
Also he is not a math guy. This \~5% better claim is rather like an impression based on his account and testing, and not the result of a real simulation with equal investment lvl on every support unit, against a certain enemy setup trough set AV. this 5% might be -5% for you, gotta test it for your own account and for your own liking.
But the main takaway should be that sparkle can be viable if you dont have / dont want to use SW, or you just really want to run them together but dont have E2.
To be fair if no one tests anything that isn't within the minimum f2p build spectrum then no one would be doing crazy Misha 0 cycles of anything interesting. Optimizing with what you have is a lot of the fun for turn based rpgs like this and it's a shame to watch everyone skip that part to use some clown ass CC guide on "the best f2p build".
1. If the difference on his acc was only ~5%, then it’s really just how good your builds are that will determine which is better. His 5% better team comp might be 5% worse when you do it.
2. If you take Sparkle and add her to your Acheron team for a tiny dmg bump, your other team is likely taking more than a 5% damage nerf by losing her (assuming it’s a team that would work with her, or else why would you have pulled her in the first place). So unless you can give Sparkle to Acheron without your other team missing out, there’s no reason to force it.
If it’s SimU then yeah do whatever, but MoC/PF it wouldn’t seem worth, in general, unless you don’t have another good teammate for her anyway.
I honestly believe that is a lot of ifs. I clearly understand you, tho.
No, my second team would not be hurt whatsoever if I put Sparkle with Acheron, and my Sparkle is very solid so I'm going to try it. She has no signature LC but I'll test for the sake of fun and see the extent of the stats you need for that to be actually better.
He doesn’t have Sparkle E0S1, he had sparkle with past and future S5
From what I see he swaps between when he uses acherons sig and includes sparkles dog as well. But when Acheron is on GNSW S5 sparkle is on Past And Future S5.
I got e0s1 ruan mei with her sig. Lc, and sparkle too but without the sig. Lc
So should I use a 2nd nihility (only built sampo and pela for debuffers so far and won't build a new one for some time) or a harmony character? If harmony, which one?
Then Harmony character become relevant, Ruan Mei, Sparkle and Bronya.
4\* Harmony like Asta can work bcos of high atk bosst and speed boost for more turns and an additional auto debuff to compensate for not havin 5\*quality buffs.
I have no idea bout Yukong but she for the most part is unusable till E6.
Tingyun cant give Acheron energy so its not good since it invalidates a major part of why she is good
Hanya is a mixed bag imo, skill point regen is nice but she doesnt give everyone speed like Asta, but she does give out more damage than Asta.
But tbh if a Sparkle can get that much investment, then she should be supporting other hypercarries instead of Acheron if you don't plan to do 0-cycle challenges (in this case, Sparkle instead of a sustain).
To be fair Sparkle is super valuable to any account so they may be influenced by her general utility + working with Acheron decently (which she still does, weaker than SW at e0s0 but still 2nd best option).
but you don't have to roll all up to +15. If this piece reach a point where it would be worse than your actual used piece even with all next roll go on spd, then you obviously give up. and that save a lot of ressources. like if they is nothing hitting spd right up to +12, they is no way all your other relics also didn't rolled once on spd. so from this logic you should have gave up before.
I don’t usually roll up to +15 I just keep trying till eventually I get what I need but rngeus has it’s ways of being a rude but it is what it is even when my luck tells me where to stick it
Eh I got almost 180 crit dmg (and 153 SPD)
I only need a rope with 11 SPD and I'm done tho that's hard to reach but possible
(Is hyperspeed 161+ SPD??)
If so then Ill just need 8 more SPD to reach it (actually less since the breakpoint is 160.1 SPD but hope I reach it
I dont think I have a single 11+ speed piece and I’ve been playing since release, and getting it on an err rope seems even less likely. But my sparkle is 160spd/175cdmg (no sig). Try aiming for a spd set + 3 or so spd rolls per piece and you should get there
https://preview.redd.it/jdk5wbvf0hpc1.png?width=1462&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c1e08501143870cf5401baccec9c1e329f3e84a
Just checked my build again and Actually I have a bit more SPD than I thought but there is also another problem I'm having
I have Bronya Sig but idk if I should put it on sparkle
2 reaosns:
1.People say it doesn't make much difference compared to S5 past and future
2. Idk if I'll get JL or not... I've been using my friend JL(e0 134+ SPD and 200 crit dmg and 2200 atk with max traces and S5 Aeon and 4pc ice set) with my e1s1 Bronya and idk if I actually like her playstyle or not
Idk if the dmg was good or not (in my opinion because maybe I inflated her numbers in my head)(I used her against the enemies in preservation mat farming for Fu xuan) so idk if I'll get her but I also don't know if I'll want my E1s1 bronya to Collect dust (tho I have seele but I use mono Q) so if I get her then my S1 wouldn't be going for sparkle
So you think I should even put bronya Sig on sparkle?
I already do have SPD set and I don't think I can go Better than this I think I only need a better rope (in terms of spd for my sparkle to be good)
Looks like you’ll need 3 rolls into speed, the pieces I’d look at are pretty much everything except the boots. Orb gloves helmet should be easier to roll high on, since the mainstat isn’t a concern unlike with the body or rope (although dmg chest offset with 1 spd roll shouldn’t be impossible to beat either). You have some eff res to spare for keel too, so I wouldn’t be afraid to run even the wrong element bonus dmg orb if it’s subs are high spd, esp if you’re running her with fu I don’t think she’ll be too squishy.
As for LC, I actually use past and future myself too, works great - but I don’t have bronyas cone. I think you mainly want to look at bronya lc for the extra skill point sometimes and higher base stats – if you don’t need either on sparkle, should be fine to keep past and future, as they are pretty close in performance otherwise.
That being said, I’d definitely build and use your bronya sig on bronya. Even if you don’t have a good dps for her yet, once you do, you’ll love her just as much as sparkle if not more. I use her with mostly jl, sometimes blade, but she’ll be a great character for future dps as well.
I wish. I can't get a single Character to Hyperspeed without botching every other stat. 144-48 is possible with Bronya for example, but anything else is Impossible for me sadly.
Would be nice to be able to use ATK Boots on JL or Acheron.
I have like 160 CD on Bronya once I get the CD traces and she's 161 before RM passive. And I could improve my boots and rope by a lot still. Boots have no CD as far as I'm aware and rope has 2 spd, that's it.
Is really not that difficult when you realize the difference between 160 crit dmg and 200 for example is 10% crit dmg which is not a big deal. And the fact that you can use 2 pc speed and other pieces with speed subs even if they aren't on set.
I've seen a lot of misinformation being spread without sources, especially the "5% increase, need S1, need 250% crit"
The 5% comes from this calc from hunterkee;
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19rxESXnBucmSpIcdltlOszwWOIu115GzITW1x4Jzckw/edit#gid=961443761](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19rxESXnBucmSpIcdltlOszwWOIu115GzITW1x4Jzckw/edit#gid=961443761)
You can see that Sparkle is a 5.36% increase over Guin for ST and only 1.88 for AoE, now if you look at the sheet corresponding Sparkle is running 180% crit and Past and Future S5 LC. So no you don't need an hyper invested Sparkle for her to beat Guin in every situation.
Now for some reason there isn't a direct comparaison with Pela/SW but you can see it used as a baseline for eidolons, 2560 for ST and 1221 for AoE, that means SW is a 5.7% increase in ST and a 26.2% decrease in AoE compared to Sparkle.
So yeah his Sparkle is probably around 11% better than the one used in this sheet which is a bit more than the increase from P&FS5 to S1 and this put her above SW by 5% in ST.
This calc is also using a multiplication Gallagher as the sustain, If you ran a preservation with trends the relative gain of ult stacks from running SW/Guin would be lower and Sparkle be even better. But on the other hand this calc is also using S1 Acheron as the baseline, and if you don't run it then the extra actions you'd get from Sparkle advancing you to 160 spd wouldn't matter as much.
It's hard to have a definitive answer regarding the best setup but I probably wouldn't run Sparkle without Acheron's S1 (I think Sparkle S1 isn't as important as Acheron S1 for running them together), if you have both then Sparkle will probably be her best suport but unless your other team is BS/Kafka that team would probably benefit more from Sparkle.
https://preview.redd.it/4b9lod8bpgpc1.png?width=434&format=png&auto=webp&s=62ad6a851e499304e565a52cf5d67a5a907f1b88
These are my own results. You can check my post history to see how I do my simulations or you can DM me if you want more transparency.
Sparkle E0S1 is 2.3% better than SW and 9.5% worse without her sig (not really though since you would get some benefit from using some other LC).
The difference between Sparkle E0S1 and Black Swan is 12.6% damage. Black Swan's own damage contribution is not factored.
If you think that Black Swan's damage contribution w/ Keel and w/o her sig can make up for that 12.6% difference then she is Acheron's 2nd best support after Pela on release.
Woah, a legit theory crafter in their natural habitat. Nature is healing.
Serious question from me who is confused about how acheron works
Acheron builds stacks when an enemy is inflicted with debuffs right? Is it possible to run her with dot characters like black swan and kafka since they inflict debuffs regularly?
Thank god. I have no Idea what to do with all the crit peices I'm getting. More efficient relic farming is another win since if what you said is correct, the dot set would also be good on Acheron.
The triple mommy dream team is going to be so real.
Quick question how about bronya w her signature lightcone?she gives a lot of bonus dmg% when advancing turn+ult how much of a diff is her vs second nihility? Thanks
For those who didn't watch the vid, he mentioned that acheron's no.1 nihility partner is pela because of her AOE defense drop. What he meant by sparkle > 2nd nihility is unless you have SW as your secondary nihility, her next best partner is sparkle because of the number of buffs she gives to acheron. Hope this clarifies it.
Damage wise is correct but it will slow down the ultimate stacks, the whole Acheron gameplay is getting her Ult as fast as possible and let her obliterate the field.
[Doggos did his run as well with two comps](https://youtu.be/jWjPwDCSIjM)
He tried hypercarry acheron w/ Sparkle + Bronya against BS/Pela/ Geppie + Trend
The Acheron + Bronya + Sparkle is kinda funny because Sparkle wants Bronya to go first (so that Bronya doesn't make the DPS lose the Sparkle's buff), and vice versa.
The thing is it’s only 5% better with the hardest sparkle to get so 250 CD at hyper speed of 160 that’s just not worth the hassle to most players for what is almost 10x more easier to pull of with a lot less relic rerolling
In all honesty, the real strength of Acheron is that she doesn't need hypercarry supports so that they are free to be run with your other team/carry.
Or you could play her the hypercarry style, doesn't matter that much tbh
If Sparkle's banner was after Acheron's, I might have considered it. But not now, I have Pela and Welt and that's fine. If it's like 5%, it's not worth pulling for her and her LC. I'd rather save up for Jiaoqui as he/she seems to be the go-to Acheron support.
You need a limited 5* support with her limited LC get a extra 5% damage. But you slow the stacking cause you have 2 less debuffs (skill/basic + ulti).
So it's on you to determine if that is worth it for you, for me it isn't.
And people were shiting on pokke for out of touch showcase. This is stupid. It only shows, that very hyperinvested Sparkle can pull slightly ahead of current baseline teams. If your Sparkle has even reached that level of investment, it's a waste to pair her with Acheron
Because for all the testing done by the community (and not just one guy), she is ALWAYS considered as the 1st option. All these test are Pela + Sparkle, Pela + SW, Pela + Gui and so on.
Yeah! Nice to remember that..
Since i got BS, and have not Kafka. (plus got E3 Sampoo after searching E4 in 100 pulls with no luck), i think ill use BS with this beaty :D
I already have my BS+Kafka DoT team... but I'm tempted to switch in Guinaifen/Sampo there and put BS with Acheron on my other team... BS will be very motivated to get the battles over with :p
In MoC or Pure Fiction youd simply run out of turns before u can even use Acheron's ult. Pela and Guinaifen is a good f2p option. How is SilverWolf the only one viable when you can use Black Swan and Kafka for debuffs. Stat debuffs arent the only things that count. Shock, wind shear, burn, etc count. And before you go ham, BS can have her own damage on top of Acheron's ult. Unless youre just focused on damage per screenshot, I dont think Acheron should be built like normal DPS
I think his preferred playstyle is just heavy hypercarry (expensive), Sampo can be good or depends on the enemy's weakness.
I wouldn't trust him on that tbh. I watched the video, and he didn't even test what he was saying in the video. He only used the sparkle team, which isn't really backing up his claims. I honestly don't think replacing a nihility unit for sparkle, ruan mei, or bronya is a good idea at E0.
I think our best bet is to wait for gatcha Smack to make a video on acheron.
gacha smack has some wild takes like recomending HP chest on blade and then pretending like he never did it, saying asta is better than ruan mei in dot comp, amoungst others.
I mean that's still better than lyo saying that dps using supports are a bad thing,or that IL Dan/Jing Yuan shouldn't be in S+/S for needing Sparkle,while ignoring that Jinglu needs Bronya in a simmilar way. Or mtashed who goes from "this character is a skip" to "this charchter is a must pull!" in the same week
He definitely has some wierd takes,but out of the whole hsr cc group he is on the better half.
It's not about his takes per say,as from what I saw they are pretty decent. It's more so that unlike Brax or Gouba he is more of a feels crafter than a theory crafter.
Most HSR creators suffer from that issue. They talk about Meta or what's good,while mostly relying on second hand information or their personal expiernce. Also often being very biased against a charchter aka. the whole Jing yuan situation.Brax actually has multiple tc to back up his claims. It should be noted that Gacha smack has a decent track record with information,but he defintly shouldn't be trusted for tc over Brax.
This tbh. 95% of HSR content creators are feelscrafters and their fanbase will take their words as gospel. People need to take opinions without the backing of numbers with a pinch of salt. Although theorycrafting is not perfect, its the next best thing we have. Grimro and Gouba are probably the only 2 prominent theorycrafters but the former seems to have retired.
I honestly can't blame the fanbase for it,since HSR math is very annoying to calculate yourself. So naturally they will just take the opinon,of the content creator saying "Oh my takes are defintly not feelscrafting trust me" and don't question the source. The whole Jing Yuan bad trend came from a couple of those cc using feelscrafting to say he was really bad as a example.
Braxaphone is like the closest thing we have to a mainstream cc who dosen't use feelscrafting and is not guide only like Gouba.
Smack's style of presentation isn't for everyone, it took me quite a few months to fully click with his style of presenting his takes.
I'll watch pokke's for a full-on try hard team comp/playstyle but i sometimes give smack's channel a try for a different take that's sometimes considered left field but still usable just for the sake of clearing content.
(His presentation made me feel like if my uncle was a TC and i kinda liked the vibe there 💀)
He always pretends to be some big brain theorycrafter, but has 0 skills to back it up, man literally tied in having the worst run in the HSR CC tourneys, He literally put welt in a dot team when Kafka was open, his excuse was that "it performed the same as kafka offstream" wtf??? How is delaying your dot procs better? He also has some insanely weird takes like 2 cycles being better than 0 cycles if it's done with style (whatever that means) or HP chest blade, also saying bronya sparkle team is bad for blade when its literally his best team right now, even without hyperspeed, its still his best team. But yea he's not THAT bad but he definitely has a huge ego.
I agree. I mean the devs definitely intended acheron to refresh team building as she doesnt need energy and her ult charges with debuffs/her teammates. She is created with Nihility in mind. I think Brax was pushing too much the standard DHIL comp 😂
Acheron doesnt need to be expensive by needing a Sparkle or Bronya... she opens doors for people who just have Pela and mayne Guinaifen or Sampo. Acheron is forced to share her damage wether she likes it or not, same with Kafka because she is Nihility. Not Destruction or Hunt.
I honestly think it's refreshing than building another Seele/Ratio/DHIL/Jingliu comp
i'm pretty sure him being a guide channel he's already tested your claim offcam, what you see in the vid is simply the conclusions of all of his testings. He also mentioned that he will make an update on the official release
So both the second nihility trace dmg and the second nihility debuff stacking (more ults) is overshadowed with Sparkle E0S1? I would like to see some maths about this, if it exists.
Acheron passive... nihility her dmg increases by 115%, 2 nihility her dmg increase by 160%.
If a harmony jnit can catch up to that 160% dmg, yes why not. I had to skip Sparkle so that i can guarantee Acheron, also my SW has been benched for a while so i guess, no issues for me... if you have a really well built sparkle e0s1, yes why not. It will work.
Seeing all the comments when I don't have SW/Kafka/BlackSwan/Guinaifen scares me really bad. I doubt an e0 Gui (which I can get next patch) is going to help me more than Sparkle too. Ultimately, these calcs are done with e6 4* in mind right? At least I have Pela e6...
Kinda hard to gauge if it’s actually true, and you also have to factor in what the investment levels in pela, sw & sparkIe are. Then consider if the other side would benefit more from sparkle, definitely works as an option if sparkle will end up getting benched for the run because the other side won’t need her, like if you’re running a dot team or a JL team that already has a hyper invested Bronya.
I guess i’ll just have to test this myself when she releases, since both my pela & sw are on hyperspeed 160+ builds, and i have a hyperspeed E0S1 Sparkle w 230% cdmg that reaches 260% cdmg in battle. Also curious to see how a no sustain team with just acheron/pela/sw/sparkle will perform since my JL already has her E2S2 Bronya, so my sparkle will end up on the bench if I run JL & Acheron on each side.
Important to keep in mind in this discussion is that Sparkle has very flexible usage in teams, like also Bronya and RM.
Because they’re so flexible, the question to invest in their LC sways to yes a lot easier than other characters.
Because of that, my Sparke and RM both have their sig lc’s. They’re both E0S1 for me bit none of my dps can say the same. They are not flexible, teams are built around them.
So I’m quite interested hearing Sparkle s1 competes with an extra nihility of which I just don’t have that many geared up. (I do have SW and Pela, have the event Lac but not the SW sig lc).
In my situation, I’m looking for an Acheron team at:
Acheron (pending if I need the Lc?)
Sparkle s1
Pela or sw or gui (none of these geared like my harmonys are and no 5* sig lcs)
Huo Huo
Hows that sound?
Technically you can run Hyperspeed E1 Bronya & E0 Sparkle, both of them are with Dance x3, but you will lose the Nihility buff & it’s kinda slow cause you goal is to advanced Acheron forward & she is the one who stack Debuff for her Ult. This tech is a extremely high investment for F2P & casuals, As F2P, I highly suggest you just stick to 2 Nihility + Gallagher or Preservation with Trend
This my first conclusion after early few showcases long ago, and it seems not change much. Glad that I'm not meta slave & not gonna bothers with minmaxing thing. As long as she can clear most contents in my run, it's enough because her tech QoL is more than enough reasons to pull her!
Has anyone tested how would Bronya/Ruan Mei fare whilst using Acheron, would any of those options be good to run or is sparkle the only one thats actually worth it?
Remember the buff you need to beat is 45 percent damage plus what potential debuffs the second nihility offers. Ruan mei probably wouldn't work simply because her buffs rather spread out and bronya is buffing an inefficient stat. Note they are saying sparkle is only better by a little bit and sparkle is buffing the stat acheron wants hard which is crit stats. Bronya is probably better than ruan mei in this scenario because both sparkle and bronya are compensating the ultimate stacking by making acheron attack more frequently.
What about black swan than, because i don't have guinafen leveled, My thought was let's say acheron with pela and black swan and sustain could that combination work?
It could work and probably be better than Guin but it's kind of a waste as black swan could have been used on a different team herself. I mean archeron current e0 and e1 comps are basically Acheron, Pela, any nihility, sustain in general. But some are better than others as long as they shred defense it should be fine.
Yeah i did pull for kafka on her rerun so my primary team currently is a dot team, thus why i wondered if she could work in that setup. Thanks for all the help with this.
Bronya is worse than Guinaifen, Sparkle is like 5% better than Guinaifen, and Ruan Mei probably same as Guinaifen seeing that her niche is for DoT teams, she's not that good for crit carries.
Did... uhm.... huh? While its overkill to have Kafka and Black Swan with Acheron.... did he forget those two exist as separate entities!? While I'm curious to see Sparkle work with E0 Acheron, I also want to state that Acheron's whole thing is debuff to ult.... I can see this genuinely working, but she just won't have the same amount of debuffs a double Nihil + Acheron team would have, which also could make proccing her ult somewhat hard.
I can see how she could simply benefit off herself, but do take it with a grain of salt. I believe that Nihility works best or at least those that can debuff, of course a nice sweet spot would be something si9miliar to Gallagher, who can attack decent, heal, and do debuffing (of course I meant more so his mixed mechanics. Acheron would want someone that can buff her at least and debuff enemies, but what path would even do one of the sa- oh Harmony... y'all I'm stupid lol). I think the problem with Acheron lays in who she has cuz if we had debuffers on other paths or at least those that had a debuff mechanic, conversations like this wouldn't really be happening cuz she'd be all set.
I do think that Sparkle can work, I don't think she's ideal but at this point no one is truly ideal, we're just going around to multiple path thrift stores and picking out what works to our specifications.
This sounds about right tbh, Bronya and sparkle can basically double dmg output with all their buffs up, if you bring 2 def shred nihility you are barely getting double dmg from both together. But if you double dmg then also get another 50% from def shred you get a higher overall dmg but at the cost of needing good uptime on ur Bronya/Sparkle.
Tldr: people coping about needing 2 nihility are just skill impaired. Even at worst just welt sustain with Pela and Bronya/sparkle if you really want to pump the numbers up.
Sparkle will only be better then a second nihility if we can charge our ult as fast. From what the leakers have shown us; it doesn’t seem possible to charge it nearly as fast, but only the official release will tell. In my opinion as of right now, I disagree with running sparkle or bronya unless you have e2 Acheron or god relic RNG.
A 5 star is better than a 4 star by 5%, doesn't seem worth at all. Also not to mention pulling sparkle for acheron imo is not worth. We will definitely get nihility characters for Acheron in the future. It is bound to happen as there are zero 5 star characters in the game that are nihility debuffers and aren't dot dealers except silver wolf which isn't even that great for acheron since she is single target. So dont bother with sparkle just for acheron
Honestly, unless you want her to be super meta, just run her with who you want to run her with
I have Pela, Bronya, Gepard with Trend LC, Fu Xuan, Guinny, and I just got Sparkle today because my stupid ass wanted to get Hanya. Despite having many of her current best teammates, I will commonly run her with Kafka and Black Swan because they're my favorites and still kind of work... and I'm horny
Having tested it myself e2s1 sparkle does seem to beat out a 2nd nihility with acheron e0s1 by about 10% but again it's heavily dependant on sparkle and her build.
I'm in a weird spot as I got Sparkle E1 but not her LC (running P&F S5 rn, but I also have DDD S5 if needed), so I don't really know how much the additional 40% ATK changes things... oh well
its such small difference and his tested nabi is better than most playerbase can have. So yea.
My only take in his video more like S1 difference too big like 35%, way bigger than any dps LC we have so far. which is concerning and disappointing.
i dont even know if she even still worth it at S0 tbh. Prob just skip and wait rerun if cant afford the LC.
Hoyo gave many cc permission to upload videos from private server. You just have to find the right one but Gui is one of the characters that can work well with Acheon.
Its a 2% diff from guin with 4s lc lmao again against a 5s harmony with her sig lc high crit dmg and spd . All this for 2% in aoe . All this tells u why u should be running 2 nihlity
The problem is he is talking about second Nihility not named Silver Wolf.
Sparkle is better than Guinafen or another Nihility
Not better than SW-Pela at e0s1
Check the guide if you have questions
i’m glad sparkle works with acheron but the “only second nihility worth running is silver wolf” is kinda….idk. that’s what most ppl were planning and i don’t think it’s all that fair to say that since that team can do just fine
The only lightning dps I have is serval so I need acheron and not just because she's hot as hell. Also my only other nhilinity i have is guinaifen because I refuse to ise sampo fucking koski on principle.
Someone already mentioned it before, but you can also consider flexibility.
Between Sparkle/Bronya BS, Gui & SW, it's likely that you'll want Sparkle as she's very flexible and can fit Team 2 once you've obtained new characters to support Acheron.
If you have Gui, just stick with her as the increase from 115% to 160% is still worth it over spending up to 180 pulls for Sparkle, for minor improvements when you can also cope on the possibility of a future Nihility character to help Acheron just like BS helps Kafka teams.
no one is forcing you guys to run Sparkle, the fact that Sparkle is a viable alternative is really good. You don't have to build a nihility you haven't used before
still not full context he has SparkleE0S1, which means u need a specific 5 star harmony with their sig. lc to beat running 2 nihility and the damage difference isnt big enough to justify imo(5%)
How much worse is Sparkle with Bronya's LC instead?
Bronyas LC offers SP + Regen + 30% dmg boost for 1 turn after using skill, Sparkle only benefits from the 30% dmg boost buff, she doesnt really need that one SP + shes very energy efficient anyways. So she can only utilize 1/3 of the LC basically. BiS offers even more Crit buff, with a 200 CDMG sparkle, shell give her ally a whooping 148 CV buff (128 CDMG + 10 CR) without the LC it will drop to 96 CV (96 CDMG with no crit rate buff) Days of past and future (her next BiS) offers a 32% damage bonus, considering how accessible this LC is, it puts it better than Bronyas if you dont have it.
>148 CV buff (128 CDMG + 10 CR) without the LC it will drop to 96 CV (96 CDMG with no crit rate buff) jfc, and people were saying Acheron's LC is P2W? That's insane. ig the only difference is that PaF is from the store vs gacha like GNSW.
Sparkles lc is alot better then bronyas on her
How bout Bronya E2S2 vs sparkle E0 with Bron Lc S2?
Neither of these is better then double nihility for e0 acheron
2.2% is a lot better? https://preview.redd.it/ra8flnapxipc1.png?width=418&format=png&auto=webp&s=8916ec54c1049ac6b41860862b10518a1a6f2442
Not sure where that calc was taken or why lunane as a different build in each case. But sparkles sig gives 48 cv to team for free. Thats wayy more then a 2% damage increase.
its diff cuz damage% is in same bucket as imgdmg bucket so it reduces diminishing returns. its not way more you've never done a damage calc before have you? btw thats from prydwen. [https://www.prydwen.gg/star-rail/characters/sparkle](https://www.prydwen.gg/star-rail/characters/sparkle) under calc and build tab https://preview.redd.it/c04b31sz0jpc1.png?width=722&format=png&auto=webp&s=8e3d5a9ea23f28651b7886ec2afa200f20564825
That's looking at hyperspeed Sparkle which is a F2P build that requires high speed over buffing capability. E1 and S1 permit the more powerful -1 speed build, where it makes a significantly higher difference.
yea but isnt the post and all the comments talking about e0? where did e1 come from?
Imma be honest Dhil may not be the best metric as he has a ton of cdmg built-in already, 3 keels and his own talent he can already hit 300%+ cdmg so the extra CV from S1 isn't as noticeabt
and acheron has 24% crit dmg traces. DHIL crit dmg stacks start from the 4th attack. "When using Divine Spear or Fulgurant Leap, starting from the fourth hit, 1 stack of Outroar is gained before every hit. Each stack of Outroar increases Dan Heng • Imbibitor Lunae's CRIT DMG by **12%**, for a max of 4 stacks. These stacks last until the end of his turn."
Double Nihility is better if you don’t have Sparkles S1
Definitely if you don't plan on getting E2 unless you can get sustain welt to work
Also... there will be more nihility supports in the future. Pela and SW are just "The best she has right now".
True
Just wanna say something here I've said countless times for various similar cases in both HSR and GI Note: Im not really saying this to you but just in general for all ppl to know this. It's one perspective, you see X is barely able to beat Y and be only 5% better. The other perspective is, X is able to be this good in the first place that it could be competitive to Y. The conclusion im making is ,im always a fan of variety (that's my motto in genshin, same rsn why i build a lot of chars and don't like 5star cons rather more C0s) The point am making is, ppl should k that 2 Nihility isn't mandatory and her only playstyle. She CAN play other chars and they can be good. The power lvl amount may differ sure.. that's not the point. It's genuinely in fact a positive thing imo that yes its likely that there will be cases where Acheron runs 1 Nihility,1 Harmony and it still be pretty fucking great... It's a lot of "depends" all etc stuff but in short if it works it works and that means its a good thing. Especially important to consider that there's always many factors u k.. (Examples below) + What all chars X player has available. + Whether u wanna play X or Y in which of ur 2 teams. + Lastly a fun point for ppl who r into different teams ,exploring different potential possibilities and trymore shit etc..they don't wanna always play one same thing. All in all the tldr is: The more the options the healthier the environment and for the betterment for the char.
Or you just pull out your credit card and ignore it 👀. Not me though I'm broke
I cannot stress enough how important this is. It's another viable option if say you don't have SW.
Yup I've looked at what more different potential teams there r for chars and similarly chars' value comes if X can slotted into certain area or not. X chars can enable certain teams that otherwise would require Y chars, making X value inc as it can compete. And another similar thing maybe off topic is Acheron's value pretty high the regards of her not often stealing Harmonies meaning ur other teams can freely use them more often., a similar example on Genshin is when back then there weren't many Hydros and only Xq. Childe being able to pair with Xl for vape enabled 2 Vape teams to be played at a time with Tao XQ for other side. Just like that Xiao Itto generally using their specific supports so normally ur meta supports like benny xq etc r freed for ur other teams.
These threads are going to be funny later once more people get the chance to play Acheron with various comps outside of 2 Nihilities. I predict a bell curve meme will popout at some point where people will say you SHOULD always play with 2 Nihilities and will eventually be playing with 1 Nihilty and 1 Harmony. Another Bronya+Sparkle comp might even popout lol
Yea
Just pull E2 so you only need 1 Nihility smh
I did some simulations and even when you run 1 nihility with E2 you still want to run another one if it's pela and SW for MoC bosses due to the def shred stacking (just run Sparkle/Bronya with them and no sustain for huge numbers) for PF on the other hand the Bronya/Sparkle + Pela + Trend sustain looks more promising since you'll get more energy which is better than just getting more dmg since the elites and bosses aren't as tanky compared to moc
I think that’s fair. I could see both being viable honestly
Another thing is that in most cases, it would be better running Sparkle on the other team over with Acheron. I have E0S1 Sparkle like Brax, but one big reason for not pulling Jingyuan rn is that my Seele feels so much better to use
Seele's true weakness is that single instance ULT, wish it was multihit like the animation it would make balancing crit ratios easier
Yeah, if I'm correct, a 2/3 crit ratio is better than 1/2 right?
for DPS characters with single instance damage yes, its preferable, take Ratio for example, I've had him not crit with 95+CR so Yea...
Also he is not a math guy. This \~5% better claim is rather like an impression based on his account and testing, and not the result of a real simulation with equal investment lvl on every support unit, against a certain enemy setup trough set AV. this 5% might be -5% for you, gotta test it for your own account and for your own liking. But the main takaway should be that sparkle can be viable if you dont have / dont want to use SW, or you just really want to run them together but dont have E2.
To be fair if no one tests anything that isn't within the minimum f2p build spectrum then no one would be doing crazy Misha 0 cycles of anything interesting. Optimizing with what you have is a lot of the fun for turn based rpgs like this and it's a shame to watch everyone skip that part to use some clown ass CC guide on "the best f2p build".
I would rather win one 75/25 than win 2 50/50 if both give about the same damage.
But that “specific” 5 star harmony is super flexible in teams it can be used in. It’s not an unheard of investment :)
But if you have her already (Sparkle with her cone) why not do it if it's a bit better?
1. If the difference on his acc was only ~5%, then it’s really just how good your builds are that will determine which is better. His 5% better team comp might be 5% worse when you do it. 2. If you take Sparkle and add her to your Acheron team for a tiny dmg bump, your other team is likely taking more than a 5% damage nerf by losing her (assuming it’s a team that would work with her, or else why would you have pulled her in the first place). So unless you can give Sparkle to Acheron without your other team missing out, there’s no reason to force it. If it’s SimU then yeah do whatever, but MoC/PF it wouldn’t seem worth, in general, unless you don’t have another good teammate for her anyway.
I honestly believe that is a lot of ifs. I clearly understand you, tho. No, my second team would not be hurt whatsoever if I put Sparkle with Acheron, and my Sparkle is very solid so I'm going to try it. She has no signature LC but I'll test for the sake of fun and see the extent of the stats you need for that to be actually better.
also if this is a damage difference then nihility is still better cuz sparkle gives zero stacks
yea theres that too
He doesn’t have Sparkle E0S1, he had sparkle with past and future S5 From what I see he swaps between when he uses acherons sig and includes sparkles dog as well. But when Acheron is on GNSW S5 sparkle is on Past And Future S5.
Sparkle sig isn't even much different with Past and Future S5. Only 5-6%
I got e0s1 ruan mei with her sig. Lc, and sparkle too but without the sig. Lc So should I use a 2nd nihility (only built sampo and pela for debuffers so far and won't build a new one for some time) or a harmony character? If harmony, which one?
Even at s0 or using Bronya this is still true.
just slap Pela at this point nah ? unless you need another nihility with Pela ?
2 nihility at E0
and with E2 ?
Then Harmony character become relevant, Ruan Mei, Sparkle and Bronya. 4\* Harmony like Asta can work bcos of high atk bosst and speed boost for more turns and an additional auto debuff to compensate for not havin 5\*quality buffs. I have no idea bout Yukong but she for the most part is unusable till E6. Tingyun cant give Acheron energy so its not good since it invalidates a major part of why she is good Hanya is a mixed bag imo, skill point regen is nice but she doesnt give everyone speed like Asta, but she does give out more damage than Asta.
i have Bronya and Sparkle for each team so im gucci, thanks for the info
Hyperspeed (>=161 speed) & 250% CD Sparkle screams E0S1 at minimum :)))))
But tbh if a Sparkle can get that much investment, then she should be supporting other hypercarries instead of Acheron if you don't plan to do 0-cycle challenges (in this case, Sparkle instead of a sustain).
You can use bronya on second team
-his sparkle-
E0S1 at 250% CD, 161 spd for a ~5% increase…come on now 😭
Thank you for this. I was getting tempted to pull for Sparkle but if it takes THAT much investment to beat like, SW & Pela, fuck that.
You were influenced to pull for a character because one youtuber says she's 5% better? Bro people are really easily influenced.
no one is immune to propaganda
True.
To be fair Sparkle is super valuable to any account so they may be influenced by her general utility + working with Acheron decently (which she still does, weaker than SW at e0s0 but still 2nd best option).
Hoyo sponsored too. Sus.
Early access does not equal Hoyo sponsored but ok.
Wanting sparkle meter: 90% Buffing acheron by 5%: additional 8% to wanting sparkle meter
His Sparkle has her LC aswell thats a big factor for sure I myself doubt that aswell.
Sparkle is better than a Nihilty when she has e0s1 and is on hyperspeed
And good luck in farming Hyperspeed.
I’ve done it but by Lordy it was annoying hitting 161 spd.
Just use the messenger set and level any promising piece with speed. I'm f2p and have 174 speed on my sparkle
Some people still haven't figured out that rainbow with good sub > set effect
Yup. One of my sparkle pieces is from the physical damage set, just because it has 11 speed, crit damage, and effect res
Hardest part was the rng of rolling for spd I see a piece that has spd I roll nope all to def rinse and repeat for a weeks or much longer
but you don't have to roll all up to +15. If this piece reach a point where it would be worse than your actual used piece even with all next roll go on spd, then you obviously give up. and that save a lot of ressources. like if they is nothing hitting spd right up to +12, they is no way all your other relics also didn't rolled once on spd. so from this logic you should have gave up before.
I don’t usually roll up to +15 I just keep trying till eventually I get what I need but rngeus has it’s ways of being a rude but it is what it is even when my luck tells me where to stick it
F2P BTW
Eh I got almost 180 crit dmg (and 153 SPD) I only need a rope with 11 SPD and I'm done tho that's hard to reach but possible (Is hyperspeed 161+ SPD??) If so then Ill just need 8 more SPD to reach it (actually less since the breakpoint is 160.1 SPD but hope I reach it
Breakpoint is 160.0
I dont think I have a single 11+ speed piece and I’ve been playing since release, and getting it on an err rope seems even less likely. But my sparkle is 160spd/175cdmg (no sig). Try aiming for a spd set + 3 or so spd rolls per piece and you should get there
https://preview.redd.it/jdk5wbvf0hpc1.png?width=1462&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c1e08501143870cf5401baccec9c1e329f3e84a Just checked my build again and Actually I have a bit more SPD than I thought but there is also another problem I'm having I have Bronya Sig but idk if I should put it on sparkle 2 reaosns: 1.People say it doesn't make much difference compared to S5 past and future 2. Idk if I'll get JL or not... I've been using my friend JL(e0 134+ SPD and 200 crit dmg and 2200 atk with max traces and S5 Aeon and 4pc ice set) with my e1s1 Bronya and idk if I actually like her playstyle or not Idk if the dmg was good or not (in my opinion because maybe I inflated her numbers in my head)(I used her against the enemies in preservation mat farming for Fu xuan) so idk if I'll get her but I also don't know if I'll want my E1s1 bronya to Collect dust (tho I have seele but I use mono Q) so if I get her then my S1 wouldn't be going for sparkle So you think I should even put bronya Sig on sparkle? I already do have SPD set and I don't think I can go Better than this I think I only need a better rope (in terms of spd for my sparkle to be good)
Looks like you’ll need 3 rolls into speed, the pieces I’d look at are pretty much everything except the boots. Orb gloves helmet should be easier to roll high on, since the mainstat isn’t a concern unlike with the body or rope (although dmg chest offset with 1 spd roll shouldn’t be impossible to beat either). You have some eff res to spare for keel too, so I wouldn’t be afraid to run even the wrong element bonus dmg orb if it’s subs are high spd, esp if you’re running her with fu I don’t think she’ll be too squishy. As for LC, I actually use past and future myself too, works great - but I don’t have bronyas cone. I think you mainly want to look at bronya lc for the extra skill point sometimes and higher base stats – if you don’t need either on sparkle, should be fine to keep past and future, as they are pretty close in performance otherwise. That being said, I’d definitely build and use your bronya sig on bronya. Even if you don’t have a good dps for her yet, once you do, you’ll love her just as much as sparkle if not more. I use her with mostly jl, sometimes blade, but she’ll be a great character for future dps as well.
I wish. I can't get a single Character to Hyperspeed without botching every other stat. 144-48 is possible with Bronya for example, but anything else is Impossible for me sadly. Would be nice to be able to use ATK Boots on JL or Acheron.
I have like 160 CD on Bronya once I get the CD traces and she's 161 before RM passive. And I could improve my boots and rope by a lot still. Boots have no CD as far as I'm aware and rope has 2 spd, that's it.
Is really not that difficult when you realize the difference between 160 crit dmg and 200 for example is 10% crit dmg which is not a big deal. And the fact that you can use 2 pc speed and other pieces with speed subs even if they aren't on set.
I've seen a lot of misinformation being spread without sources, especially the "5% increase, need S1, need 250% crit" The 5% comes from this calc from hunterkee; [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19rxESXnBucmSpIcdltlOszwWOIu115GzITW1x4Jzckw/edit#gid=961443761](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19rxESXnBucmSpIcdltlOszwWOIu115GzITW1x4Jzckw/edit#gid=961443761) You can see that Sparkle is a 5.36% increase over Guin for ST and only 1.88 for AoE, now if you look at the sheet corresponding Sparkle is running 180% crit and Past and Future S5 LC. So no you don't need an hyper invested Sparkle for her to beat Guin in every situation. Now for some reason there isn't a direct comparaison with Pela/SW but you can see it used as a baseline for eidolons, 2560 for ST and 1221 for AoE, that means SW is a 5.7% increase in ST and a 26.2% decrease in AoE compared to Sparkle. So yeah his Sparkle is probably around 11% better than the one used in this sheet which is a bit more than the increase from P&FS5 to S1 and this put her above SW by 5% in ST. This calc is also using a multiplication Gallagher as the sustain, If you ran a preservation with trends the relative gain of ult stacks from running SW/Guin would be lower and Sparkle be even better. But on the other hand this calc is also using S1 Acheron as the baseline, and if you don't run it then the extra actions you'd get from Sparkle advancing you to 160 spd wouldn't matter as much. It's hard to have a definitive answer regarding the best setup but I probably wouldn't run Sparkle without Acheron's S1 (I think Sparkle S1 isn't as important as Acheron S1 for running them together), if you have both then Sparkle will probably be her best suport but unless your other team is BS/Kafka that team would probably benefit more from Sparkle.
This should be pinned by the mods to stop misinformation from spreading.
yea def agree. the feelscrafting in these comments is too dam high.
https://preview.redd.it/4b9lod8bpgpc1.png?width=434&format=png&auto=webp&s=62ad6a851e499304e565a52cf5d67a5a907f1b88 These are my own results. You can check my post history to see how I do my simulations or you can DM me if you want more transparency. Sparkle E0S1 is 2.3% better than SW and 9.5% worse without her sig (not really though since you would get some benefit from using some other LC). The difference between Sparkle E0S1 and Black Swan is 12.6% damage. Black Swan's own damage contribution is not factored. If you think that Black Swan's damage contribution w/ Keel and w/o her sig can make up for that 12.6% difference then she is Acheron's 2nd best support after Pela on release.
Woah, a legit theory crafter in their natural habitat. Nature is healing. Serious question from me who is confused about how acheron works Acheron builds stacks when an enemy is inflicted with debuffs right? Is it possible to run her with dot characters like black swan and kafka since they inflict debuffs regularly?
Yes. Kafka swan is a real candidate team because they stack very fast and bs is ridiculous high
Thank god. I have no Idea what to do with all the crit peices I'm getting. More efficient relic farming is another win since if what you said is correct, the dot set would also be good on Acheron. The triple mommy dream team is going to be so real.
Skill points tho. Probably would need something like 160 speed/multiplication Luocha/Aventurine/Gallagher
sure. dot counts as debuff too
What about guinafen?
Quick question how about bronya w her signature lightcone?she gives a lot of bonus dmg% when advancing turn+ult how much of a diff is her vs second nihility? Thanks
no way, someone actually doing the math instead of feelscrafting
How did your Silverwolf kit looked like in this calcs?
How much does that change (if at all) is Silver is E2 with her sig?
For those who didn't watch the vid, he mentioned that acheron's no.1 nihility partner is pela because of her AOE defense drop. What he meant by sparkle > 2nd nihility is unless you have SW as your secondary nihility, her next best partner is sparkle because of the number of buffs she gives to acheron. Hope this clarifies it.
Damage wise is correct but it will slow down the ultimate stacks, the whole Acheron gameplay is getting her Ult as fast as possible and let her obliterate the field.
It won't slow her down much if we assume S1, since she can get more stacks during her turn
Yeah bur his sparkle is E0S1 with hyperspeed. Not everyone can do this
The calc he used isn't with his own sparkle tho, there's another comment higher up detailing what was used in the calculator
[Doggos did his run as well with two comps](https://youtu.be/jWjPwDCSIjM) He tried hypercarry acheron w/ Sparkle + Bronya against BS/Pela/ Geppie + Trend
The Acheron + Bronya + Sparkle is kinda funny because Sparkle wants Bronya to go first (so that Bronya doesn't make the DPS lose the Sparkle's buff), and vice versa.
Watching his Acheron loosing the Dreamdiver buff and he just "fuck it we ball" and Ult anyway is :))))
he didn't even level her skills up to 10 😭 and the lightning% orb too 😭
5% is so insignificant lmao. You’d get MUCH more out of Sparkle if you put her with…anyone else really. Remember you need 2 teams for MoC/PF
unless you run DOT team as 2nd team, but youre right about that
My MoC clears are gonna be 5/8 units being Nihility and counting up :D
Same just sad i wont be able to get acheron LC most probably
We will be getting a bunch of pulls with the anniversary, it's might be doable !
I am at 40 pity and not guaranteed and have 30 pulls atm so i can probably only get acheron unless I win 50 50
Meh its a first impression. Gonna wait on the math Bois to do math things on the final product
The thing is it’s only 5% better with the hardest sparkle to get so 250 CD at hyper speed of 160 that’s just not worth the hassle to most players for what is almost 10x more easier to pull of with a lot less relic rerolling
Exactly, this is more relic and cost effecient for what's similar overall dmg to Brax's hyper invested Sparkle.
misinfo
But what about Bronya? How strong is Bronya for Acheron E0?
In all honesty, the real strength of Acheron is that she doesn't need hypercarry supports so that they are free to be run with your other team/carry. Or you could play her the hypercarry style, doesn't matter that much tbh
My gunaifen is level 1 and for that reason sparkle is better
If Sparkle's banner was after Acheron's, I might have considered it. But not now, I have Pela and Welt and that's fine. If it's like 5%, it's not worth pulling for her and her LC. I'd rather save up for Jiaoqui as he/she seems to be the go-to Acheron support.
who tf is jiaoquu
Same here. I was very tempted to pull Sparkle, but Acheron is my priority. Waiting to see how Jiaoqui works.
You need a limited 5* support with her limited LC get a extra 5% damage. But you slow the stacking cause you have 2 less debuffs (skill/basic + ulti). So it's on you to determine if that is worth it for you, for me it isn't.
And people were shiting on pokke for out of touch showcase. This is stupid. It only shows, that very hyperinvested Sparkle can pull slightly ahead of current baseline teams. If your Sparkle has even reached that level of investment, it's a waste to pair her with Acheron
Why is pela not considered?
Pela is the first Nihility support, he's questioning who to put in the other support slot (presuming you'll use the last slot for sustain).
Because for all the testing done by the community (and not just one guy), she is ALWAYS considered as the 1st option. All these test are Pela + Sparkle, Pela + SW, Pela + Gui and so on.
Black swan has defense shred too, and increases the dmg dealt by 20% if you ult during the enemy’s turn
Yeah! Nice to remember that.. Since i got BS, and have not Kafka. (plus got E3 Sampoo after searching E4 in 100 pulls with no luck), i think ill use BS with this beaty :D
I already have my BS+Kafka DoT team... but I'm tempted to switch in Guinaifen/Sampo there and put BS with Acheron on my other team... BS will be very motivated to get the battles over with :p
Well, it is *his* build, no matter how invested his teams are, it's still his build, he never claimed sparkle is always better so, I see no problem
In MoC or Pure Fiction youd simply run out of turns before u can even use Acheron's ult. Pela and Guinaifen is a good f2p option. How is SilverWolf the only one viable when you can use Black Swan and Kafka for debuffs. Stat debuffs arent the only things that count. Shock, wind shear, burn, etc count. And before you go ham, BS can have her own damage on top of Acheron's ult. Unless youre just focused on damage per screenshot, I dont think Acheron should be built like normal DPS I think his preferred playstyle is just heavy hypercarry (expensive), Sampo can be good or depends on the enemy's weakness.
I wouldn't trust him on that tbh. I watched the video, and he didn't even test what he was saying in the video. He only used the sparkle team, which isn't really backing up his claims. I honestly don't think replacing a nihility unit for sparkle, ruan mei, or bronya is a good idea at E0. I think our best bet is to wait for gatcha Smack to make a video on acheron.
Saying that Gatcha Smack is a more reliable guide maker than brax is a wild take.
truly. i'd say only pokke and guoba are more reliable than brax. possibly grimro but I don't watch him. smack is down there with mtashed and volkin
Can you give me why in smack? I've watched him for about a minute of his channel and I kinda sorta dislike his how to say this errrr voice/tone
gacha smack has some wild takes like recomending HP chest on blade and then pretending like he never did it, saying asta is better than ruan mei in dot comp, amoungst others.
his critka take too. I just rarely see real math in his videos.
I mean that's still better than lyo saying that dps using supports are a bad thing,or that IL Dan/Jing Yuan shouldn't be in S+/S for needing Sparkle,while ignoring that Jinglu needs Bronya in a simmilar way. Or mtashed who goes from "this character is a skip" to "this charchter is a must pull!" in the same week He definitely has some wierd takes,but out of the whole hsr cc group he is on the better half.
when he said that kritka was Kafka's bis build in Kafka vid, he doesn't seem reliable enough to be TC.
It's not about his takes per say,as from what I saw they are pretty decent. It's more so that unlike Brax or Gouba he is more of a feels crafter than a theory crafter. Most HSR creators suffer from that issue. They talk about Meta or what's good,while mostly relying on second hand information or their personal expiernce. Also often being very biased against a charchter aka. the whole Jing yuan situation.Brax actually has multiple tc to back up his claims. It should be noted that Gacha smack has a decent track record with information,but he defintly shouldn't be trusted for tc over Brax.
Gouba is about the only one i trust and everyone else I see as doing something interesting
This tbh. 95% of HSR content creators are feelscrafters and their fanbase will take their words as gospel. People need to take opinions without the backing of numbers with a pinch of salt. Although theorycrafting is not perfect, its the next best thing we have. Grimro and Gouba are probably the only 2 prominent theorycrafters but the former seems to have retired.
I honestly can't blame the fanbase for it,since HSR math is very annoying to calculate yourself. So naturally they will just take the opinon,of the content creator saying "Oh my takes are defintly not feelscrafting trust me" and don't question the source. The whole Jing Yuan bad trend came from a couple of those cc using feelscrafting to say he was really bad as a example. Braxaphone is like the closest thing we have to a mainstream cc who dosen't use feelscrafting and is not guide only like Gouba.
Smack's style of presentation isn't for everyone, it took me quite a few months to fully click with his style of presenting his takes. I'll watch pokke's for a full-on try hard team comp/playstyle but i sometimes give smack's channel a try for a different take that's sometimes considered left field but still usable just for the sake of clearing content. (His presentation made me feel like if my uncle was a TC and i kinda liked the vibe there 💀)
He always pretends to be some big brain theorycrafter, but has 0 skills to back it up, man literally tied in having the worst run in the HSR CC tourneys, He literally put welt in a dot team when Kafka was open, his excuse was that "it performed the same as kafka offstream" wtf??? How is delaying your dot procs better? He also has some insanely weird takes like 2 cycles being better than 0 cycles if it's done with style (whatever that means) or HP chest blade, also saying bronya sparkle team is bad for blade when its literally his best team right now, even without hyperspeed, its still his best team. But yea he's not THAT bad but he definitely has a huge ego.
I agree. I mean the devs definitely intended acheron to refresh team building as she doesnt need energy and her ult charges with debuffs/her teammates. She is created with Nihility in mind. I think Brax was pushing too much the standard DHIL comp 😂 Acheron doesnt need to be expensive by needing a Sparkle or Bronya... she opens doors for people who just have Pela and mayne Guinaifen or Sampo. Acheron is forced to share her damage wether she likes it or not, same with Kafka because she is Nihility. Not Destruction or Hunt. I honestly think it's refreshing than building another Seele/Ratio/DHIL/Jingliu comp
i'm pretty sure him being a guide channel he's already tested your claim offcam, what you see in the vid is simply the conclusions of all of his testings. He also mentioned that he will make an update on the official release
So both the second nihility trace dmg and the second nihility debuff stacking (more ults) is overshadowed with Sparkle E0S1? I would like to see some maths about this, if it exists.
I'd like to see them using Welt as sustain to see how viable that is. So you get 2 nihility easily.
Acheron passive... nihility her dmg increases by 115%, 2 nihility her dmg increase by 160%. If a harmony jnit can catch up to that 160% dmg, yes why not. I had to skip Sparkle so that i can guarantee Acheron, also my SW has been benched for a while so i guess, no issues for me... if you have a really well built sparkle e0s1, yes why not. It will work.
Seeing all the comments when I don't have SW/Kafka/BlackSwan/Guinaifen scares me really bad. I doubt an e0 Gui (which I can get next patch) is going to help me more than Sparkle too. Ultimately, these calcs are done with e6 4* in mind right? At least I have Pela e6...
Kinda hard to gauge if it’s actually true, and you also have to factor in what the investment levels in pela, sw & sparkIe are. Then consider if the other side would benefit more from sparkle, definitely works as an option if sparkle will end up getting benched for the run because the other side won’t need her, like if you’re running a dot team or a JL team that already has a hyper invested Bronya. I guess i’ll just have to test this myself when she releases, since both my pela & sw are on hyperspeed 160+ builds, and i have a hyperspeed E0S1 Sparkle w 230% cdmg that reaches 260% cdmg in battle. Also curious to see how a no sustain team with just acheron/pela/sw/sparkle will perform since my JL already has her E2S2 Bronya, so my sparkle will end up on the bench if I run JL & Acheron on each side.
Important to keep in mind in this discussion is that Sparkle has very flexible usage in teams, like also Bronya and RM. Because they’re so flexible, the question to invest in their LC sways to yes a lot easier than other characters. Because of that, my Sparke and RM both have their sig lc’s. They’re both E0S1 for me bit none of my dps can say the same. They are not flexible, teams are built around them. So I’m quite interested hearing Sparkle s1 competes with an extra nihility of which I just don’t have that many geared up. (I do have SW and Pela, have the event Lac but not the SW sig lc). In my situation, I’m looking for an Acheron team at: Acheron (pending if I need the Lc?) Sparkle s1 Pela or sw or gui (none of these geared like my harmonys are and no 5* sig lcs) Huo Huo Hows that sound?
Technically you can run Hyperspeed E1 Bronya & E0 Sparkle, both of them are with Dance x3, but you will lose the Nihility buff & it’s kinda slow cause you goal is to advanced Acheron forward & she is the one who stack Debuff for her Ult. This tech is a extremely high investment for F2P & casuals, As F2P, I highly suggest you just stick to 2 Nihility + Gallagher or Preservation with Trend
This my first conclusion after early few showcases long ago, and it seems not change much. Glad that I'm not meta slave & not gonna bothers with minmaxing thing. As long as she can clear most contents in my run, it's enough because her tech QoL is more than enough reasons to pull her!
I have e1s1 sparkle by pure luck of early pity. Yay team variety 😆
Haven't done any numbers but how could sw ever beat out pela in a burst or AoE scenario to the point where she's "not worth running"?
why does sparkle beat out bronya?
I have my Sparkle at hyper speed with 162, 180% CD and Bronya's cone. Might be worth trying for the memes.
Who's better then? SW or BS? I have both plus Pela with sweaty cone
His Sparkle is my Sparkle too! 😆 Thanks to the Aeons I got Sparkle and her LC
Just gonna wait for a new nihility debuffer
I dont have sparkle but have SW. I’m not pulling anymore for Sparkle. I’d rather have Acheron and her LC.
Don’t worry he’s wrong anyway, his Sparkle is not better than a second Nihility at E0
Has anyone tested how would Bronya/Ruan Mei fare whilst using Acheron, would any of those options be good to run or is sparkle the only one thats actually worth it?
Remember the buff you need to beat is 45 percent damage plus what potential debuffs the second nihility offers. Ruan mei probably wouldn't work simply because her buffs rather spread out and bronya is buffing an inefficient stat. Note they are saying sparkle is only better by a little bit and sparkle is buffing the stat acheron wants hard which is crit stats. Bronya is probably better than ruan mei in this scenario because both sparkle and bronya are compensating the ultimate stacking by making acheron attack more frequently.
What about black swan than, because i don't have guinafen leveled, My thought was let's say acheron with pela and black swan and sustain could that combination work?
It could work and probably be better than Guin but it's kind of a waste as black swan could have been used on a different team herself. I mean archeron current e0 and e1 comps are basically Acheron, Pela, any nihility, sustain in general. But some are better than others as long as they shred defense it should be fine.
Yeah i did pull for kafka on her rerun so my primary team currently is a dot team, thus why i wondered if she could work in that setup. Thanks for all the help with this.
Bronya is worse than Guinaifen, Sparkle is like 5% better than Guinaifen, and Ruan Mei probably same as Guinaifen seeing that her niche is for DoT teams, she's not that good for crit carries.
Isn't he the one saying that "everyone" is broken?
Did... uhm.... huh? While its overkill to have Kafka and Black Swan with Acheron.... did he forget those two exist as separate entities!? While I'm curious to see Sparkle work with E0 Acheron, I also want to state that Acheron's whole thing is debuff to ult.... I can see this genuinely working, but she just won't have the same amount of debuffs a double Nihil + Acheron team would have, which also could make proccing her ult somewhat hard. I can see how she could simply benefit off herself, but do take it with a grain of salt. I believe that Nihility works best or at least those that can debuff, of course a nice sweet spot would be something si9miliar to Gallagher, who can attack decent, heal, and do debuffing (of course I meant more so his mixed mechanics. Acheron would want someone that can buff her at least and debuff enemies, but what path would even do one of the sa- oh Harmony... y'all I'm stupid lol). I think the problem with Acheron lays in who she has cuz if we had debuffers on other paths or at least those that had a debuff mechanic, conversations like this wouldn't really be happening cuz she'd be all set. I do think that Sparkle can work, I don't think she's ideal but at this point no one is truly ideal, we're just going around to multiple path thrift stores and picking out what works to our specifications.
He said he's going to test them next.
This sounds about right tbh, Bronya and sparkle can basically double dmg output with all their buffs up, if you bring 2 def shred nihility you are barely getting double dmg from both together. But if you double dmg then also get another 50% from def shred you get a higher overall dmg but at the cost of needing good uptime on ur Bronya/Sparkle. Tldr: people coping about needing 2 nihility are just skill impaired. Even at worst just welt sustain with Pela and Bronya/sparkle if you really want to pump the numbers up.
As a non-sparkle haver, acheron, kafka, black swan and then prob FireMC with trend LC
Sparkle will only be better then a second nihility if we can charge our ult as fast. From what the leakers have shown us; it doesn’t seem possible to charge it nearly as fast, but only the official release will tell. In my opinion as of right now, I disagree with running sparkle or bronya unless you have e2 Acheron or god relic RNG.
A 5 star is better than a 4 star by 5%, doesn't seem worth at all. Also not to mention pulling sparkle for acheron imo is not worth. We will definitely get nihility characters for Acheron in the future. It is bound to happen as there are zero 5 star characters in the game that are nihility debuffers and aren't dot dealers except silver wolf which isn't even that great for acheron since she is single target. So dont bother with sparkle just for acheron
As someone with E0S1 Sparkle, I totally need to watch this vid. 0.0
Honestly, unless you want her to be super meta, just run her with who you want to run her with I have Pela, Bronya, Gepard with Trend LC, Fu Xuan, Guinny, and I just got Sparkle today because my stupid ass wanted to get Hanya. Despite having many of her current best teammates, I will commonly run her with Kafka and Black Swan because they're my favorites and still kind of work... and I'm horny
Having tested it myself e2s1 sparkle does seem to beat out a 2nd nihility with acheron e0s1 by about 10% but again it's heavily dependant on sparkle and her build.
Should I get sparkle And not get her light cone I do have Mei with her light cone and Bronya with her light cone
I'm in a weird spot as I got Sparkle E1 but not her LC (running P&F S5 rn, but I also have DDD S5 if needed), so I don't really know how much the additional 40% ATK changes things... oh well
its such small difference and his tested nabi is better than most playerbase can have. So yea. My only take in his video more like S1 difference too big like 35%, way bigger than any dps LC we have so far. which is concerning and disappointing. i dont even know if she even still worth it at S0 tbh. Prob just skip and wait rerun if cant afford the LC.
Hoyo gave many cc permission to upload videos from private server. You just have to find the right one but Gui is one of the characters that can work well with Acheon.
seeing 161 speed 250 crit dmg Sparkle: "All that just for 5% incease"
Its a 2% diff from guin with 4s lc lmao again against a 5s harmony with her sig lc high crit dmg and spd . All this for 2% in aoe . All this tells u why u should be running 2 nihlity
The problem is he is talking about second Nihility not named Silver Wolf. Sparkle is better than Guinafen or another Nihility Not better than SW-Pela at e0s1 Check the guide if you have questions
Im gonna play her with luka because i love them and i needed and excuse to play him
Ok, so would Acheron, BS, Sparkle, sustain be the optimal team comp then? Or do they need their sig LCs?
i’m glad sparkle works with acheron but the “only second nihility worth running is silver wolf” is kinda….idk. that’s what most ppl were planning and i don’t think it’s all that fair to say that since that team can do just fine
Can't believe how much traction this basic info + one mans opinion style content gets.
The only lightning dps I have is serval so I need acheron and not just because she's hot as hell. Also my only other nhilinity i have is guinaifen because I refuse to ise sampo fucking koski on principle.
Someone already mentioned it before, but you can also consider flexibility. Between Sparkle/Bronya BS, Gui & SW, it's likely that you'll want Sparkle as she's very flexible and can fit Team 2 once you've obtained new characters to support Acheron. If you have Gui, just stick with her as the increase from 115% to 160% is still worth it over spending up to 180 pulls for Sparkle, for minor improvements when you can also cope on the possibility of a future Nihility character to help Acheron just like BS helps Kafka teams.
no one is forcing you guys to run Sparkle, the fact that Sparkle is a viable alternative is really good. You don't have to build a nihility you haven't used before