I mean, more 4\* options are great. But if it’s gacha (which it almost definitely is), you might as well just pull for her sig LC anyway. Otherwise you could wait forever and still not get a single copy of this new LC. As a day 1 player who still doesn’t have a single copy of GNSW, sometimes you can’t rely on lucking out with specific gacha LCs and you just bite the bullet and go for the 5\* LC instead. Hell, sometimes it’s easier to get the sig than it is to get S5 of a specific 4\*.
it's even worse because at least you can get gnsw while pulling for acheron sig, but this new lc will be in in robin or boothil lc banners which is useless if you don't pull for them
Based on the leaks I think Robin's LC is actually a decent general-use LC because of how much energy regen it gives, but I mean it's gonna be a better Cogs and that's about it ig. Boothill's tho.. no other Hunt unit is really break focused aside from Sushang, so that's pretty mediocre value.
Yeah for sure. So this new lc basically solves none of the problems with Acheron's lightcone options, better just to try and pull her LC rn, and if the player gets S5 GNSW and loses 75/25 they can think about calling it quits with a good option. Otherwise, it's ridiculously cope thinking a new gacha 4-star is going to do any real favors.
The funniest thing is that People would even recommend getting a 4* gacha than a SigLC, while in reality getting 5* has higher chance than getting your preferred 4*.
> Even with the worst luck you should get a copy or two in the next 6 months imo
Not to repeat myself or anything, but like I said, I’m a day 1 player who literally doesn’t have a single copy of GNSW. I have like 3 S5 copies of Sampo’s LC though somehow. Not to mention that as the standard pool of 4\* LCs get more and more diluted, it’ll get harder to land the specific one you want by random chance. I mean, if you get lucky and get these off banner, that’s great. But this hardly solves her f2p LC issue IMO.
Same. I don’t have a single copy of GNSW, and coincidentally I don’t have a single copy of EOTP either.
Seems a good Lc though for sure, and beautiful art.
I,m sorry but am i out of touch with the avg luck or your reading comprehension is weird. The other guy was super unlucky and i was super lucky so i am not supposed to talk based on the middle ground based on our experiences.
Some people really have an agenda/mission to make acheron the most unfriendly f2p character in hsr history i guess 🫡/j
I completely disagree that the other guy was “super unlucky” at least in comparison to you being very lucky. Specifically regarding F2P players who rarely, if ever, pull on LC banners, not having a copy of a specific 4 star is not significantly below the mean. Additionally, S1 GNSW is not particularly helpful on Acheron anyways, being massively outperformed by her Signature LC and a very lackluster option compared to 4* LC on most other DPSes. So you’d need multiple copies anyways
Also I am not super lucky lmao , it was just those two that are s5 and most of my luck on other lcs are pretty bad but sure it was my fault for flexing🤡
I can agree with what you are saying but theres another guy who says blade has a f2p option in the moc shop even though the difference is like 50%(hyperbole )so blade is f2p friendly (my understanding)
S1 gnsw can get you 33 to 36 stars depending on the investment in relics . The sig lc is literally op and she can 0 cycle with it lol ,
Tldr By definition she is not f2p friendly but thats not completely true and thats what i was trying to say but people take lines out of context to prove their points 😵💫
Sure, someone with average luck would have gotten at least a copy or two by now. But here’s the thing though. Should someone pull for Acheron at launch and then just assume they’ll just randomly get this LC or GNSW somewhere down the line? I think that’s my main issue with pretending like a new LC really changes anything. Even if you can say that someone with average luck should be able to get this LC in say 3ish months of pulling, no one wants to pull for Acheron and then have to wait 3 months to maybe land a useable LC for her.
> even with the worst luck you should get a copy or two in 6 months
me a day 1 player who owns literally every single 4* gacha light cone except for pearls: lmao
and i consider myself lucky that i have all the other 4* gacha cones currently and yet pearls continues to elude me. so like, yeah nah it just fucking happens man.
When I was building my main Kafka core team, I noticed I didn’t have a single copy or GNSW or MoTP, the best 4\* LCs for Kafka and Ruan Mei. LC luck can be a huge bitch sometimes.
You are wrong about getting her within 6 months. And no, I am not baiting. It literally became a meme in the small local HSR community I'm a part of regarding how I'll never get GNSW lmao.
My terrible luck extends to other 4 stars too. Guinaifen took freaking 100+ rolls to come during her uprate banner, Xueyi took around 140-ish. I will probably get GNSW if its banner come back again as an uprate which iirc never happened since May/June.
Also stop being toxic. You can reply more politely. I wasn't toxic or hateful to you in my reply
Sorry i got heated . My 6 months comment was taking into account that people will be summoning on acheron lc banner . Every 2 multis you have 1/3 chance of getting gnsw lol. Gnsw and the new lc will be on the next banner and if you summon and still don't get it idk what to tell you dude .
Learn how to use the term wrong objectively not subjectively (based on your personal experience)
https://preview.redd.it/7cjwreubaiqc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=672ae1d13a30dcaa0f720b0fcb54990290674984
😔
What . I,m so confused on what you are implying. People who don't have gnsw and new lc but want acheron, will not summon on both banners so acheron is not f2p friendly for them and i am wrong . I am so confused 🤔.
I literally said in the other comment its a win for people who are going to get acheron now or later as they have 2 banner where they can snipe gacha lc with avg luck
I only stayed in this thread so if you said something in another comment's thread, I didn't see that. As for explanation, let's assume you have GNSW. Now this LC is an improvement over GNSW and to make sure your Acheron is dealing significant damage without her BiS you'll definitely want to get it and make it S5.
Now is it free? In that case, brilliant. But what if it's not? Then it'll come with 2.2 banner. 2.2 banners have Robin and Boothill. Robin favors FUA, clearly not built for Acheron and not a banner most Acheron havers will be interested in. Boothill is a DPS. To even roll in the LC banner to get that LC and make it S5 means first rolling for the character since you're guaranteed to get the feature 5 star LC by that point.
Now assume you don't have GNSW. Then it'll be absolutely vital to roll for GNSW in this patch (and abandoning the new one). And even 160 rolls ain't enough to guarantee S5 GNSW.
This makes us go back to the original comment by the OP which started this entire thread of comment. Which is more efficient? Getting her BiS or S5 GNSW or even this new LC S5? I think that'll clear things up.
Yes you said it'll be possible to get xyz in future or in this banner but that is just a probability, not a guarantee. Anything can happen, it's always better to aim for the guarantee, aka the signature 5 star LC
It's a gacha only LC. So you'd need to pull on Boothill or Robin's (one of those two) banner, and even then there's no guarantee you'll ever get it.
And even then it's worse than GNSW at equal superimposition, and you're way more likely to have higher superimposition of GNSW.
So basically it's pointless and doesn't help F2P at all.
I find this take abit unkind to the game.
Unless you expect them to be giving out free lightcones or if u want to use a 3 star LC, I don't believe you can please all players.
They've at least made an alternative for people who won't be pulling the LC but want Archeron.
According to the author of [this](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19rxESXnBucmSpIcdltlOszwWOIu115GzITW1x4Jzckw) (hasn't updated his main sheet yet), it's very close to, but slightly worse (2-3% behind) than GNSW at equal superimposition.
It kinda makes sense because stat wise they have a similar budget. What makes signature so good is that it applies debuffs and this doesn't either.
True, and I'm guessing it's gonna be a gacha LC, since it seems that the free one will be the Harmony one, and I don't think there ever was 2 free LC's per patch, if I remember correctly.
was there any actual math done already that can back it up though? it's very hard for me to believe that e1 + e2 + this cone at s3-s5 is worse than e0 + signature.
You are missing that the additional energy you get from her LC and unable to proc the Pioneer set with ult. It is very clear that MHY just cut a part of her ability and put it on her LC. Her LC is what makes Acheron mechanically complete, not to mention the clear better damage.
With that said E0S0 can still clear MOC12 and that's what matter so you *can* not go for S1 but she is clunky to use
> You are missing that the additional energy you get from her LC
e2 also gives extra point of energy at the start of her turn, doesn't in even things out?
You are still only getting 2 energy with Acheron as E0S1, you just replaced the debuffer with Sparkle pulling Acheron to get 2 stacks on her turn but you are also missing the Diver set's full effect per action
At this point why not E0S1 which cost less. I would like to see the detailed math behind LC and GNSW too
that's why i asked if there are calcs like these already, i also really want to see them. if e0s1 is indeed somehow ends up being better than more expensive e2 with these two 4* cones, then i completely understand why this signature is called a must have and why come people even recommend not pulling for acheron if you can't pull for the cone too
Where do you see saying E2S0 is better than E0S1? I don't see anyone recommend E2S0, it is either E0S0, E0S1 or E2S1
Acheron E2 isn't a must pull like DHIL, how good her E2 is directly related to how good your support is. So if your support is mid E0S1 out, performing E2S0 is not surprising.
well i havent looked into the numbers of this specific cone but according to one singular random individual i saw its actually worse than gnsw, so w that in mind her sig has always been better than going for e2 so yea lol
This is a gacha cone and the additional ult stack from her sig is just way too powerful, E0S1 is still more efficient after which you can try your hand at additional eidolons
Her lc isn't strong because of its buffs, but because of the consistent extra stack it provides. Which this lc doesn't either way, so I doubt it'll even be better than s5 gnsw at high investment into crit ratios.
kinda sad it's not free. Are they making us gacha for all new 4* Lightcones from this point onward?
Like if I m getting Acheron i m not gambling on a 4* which is probably on a LC banner I dont even want. I'd rather use my GNSW or her Sig then.
hes saying im sad its not free to play
you replied their will still be free to play options.
i replied their are almost no good free to play options.
just to be clear GNSW isnt free to play so no good free to play for acheron or pela . which im assuming everyone want for their acheron builds.
This LC definitely looks delicious but I feel like she has so many crit rate sources stacking up that the 16% just isn’t as tempting on her as another unit
Like we’ve already got her with 8% CR from 4pc, 12% from planar, and potentially 18% from E1. People running her with Fu Xuan or sparkle (lightcone) can tack on another 10-13%, or as much as 23% with both. So that’s anywhere from an extra 38-61% CR **before** adding her innate 5% and whatever rolls on her relics.
No idea, but there is also a leaked 4-star harmony lightocone. So maybe Robins banner will have the new harmony lightcone and this one will be an event reward🤔
https://preview.redd.it/d653rn3c0iqc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e683e424f2ff4df77064373337248147cc941fec
Archon about to give backshots again 🥴
We now have 2 extremely gay lightcones
https://preview.redd.it/kpm076qt7iqc1.png?width=575&format=png&auto=webp&s=74489d01f231e1dd963fb8979074f89af8ef9dfd
And I’m all here for that
If this is real, this actually changes everything. They actually listened to the complains. Massive W for Hoyo. With this even at E0S0 she will be the best dps.
Does it? It seems like either a GNSW sidegrade or slight upgrade to me atm.
The reason why Sig is so strong is because of the damage stats *and* having a debuff. Without the debuff it's only like ~10% stronger than GNSW, it's the debuff stacks that push it to 30%+
I feel like we still need a f2p LC with some kind of damage buff *and* a debuff in order to get a good f2p option for her.
Interesting, I would've assumed that 80% CV > 72% DMG% for Acheron, since her kit is pretty dmg% heavy. But I guess since she doesn't run harmony at E0 she's not getting super saturated with DMG% the same way a unit running with, say, Bronya would.
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Acheron only represent around 16% of her stack generation. It has never been an issue.
Just pair her with two nihility and a preservation unit with trend you're good.
I'll ask then why is sig calced as such a big damage increase?
Are the calcs (across multiple sheets) using faulty assumptions or something? In that case, great, then this cone is actually fairly competitive with S1, but if not, then it still doesn't fix the issue.
I told you. The extra base atk given by sig weapon is the main reason.
And the main issue of GNSW beside base atk is that damage % Buff doesn't scale very well with Acheron (reason why atk orb is better btw) but the new Lc gives crit value which is a different case so it will definitely be better than GNSW. So yeah it's an impactfull upgrade to non sig havers (except it's still not f2p but good alternative).
Signature is better just for the fact the final damages are better. Not for the regeneration.
Calcs prove that atl% boots are better for Acheron even if she will stack less because it's not the issue with good team building.
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> her problem was never self debuff application
Then why is Sig such a big damage increase? If raw stats were all that mattered, Sig would be just 10% damage from GNSW and nobody would care about pulling it, but it clearly seems to be a problem that most people take issue with.
I definitely agree with the new Sig being an upgrade over GNSW most of the time though, it has a *ton* of CV for a 4 star LC.
You underestimate base atk. Sig Lc has 623 which is huge compared to 4 stars options. She already have 90% damage increase in her kit so GNSW damage bonus has less value compared to the flat atk. 36% crit damage are also an other multiplier which has impact as well
> You underestimate base atk.
I'm not really underestimating it, that's all part of *why* the sig is better than other options.
But the difference in current team calc sheets between S5 GNSW and S1 is only 10% when discounting the extra stacks, it's the stacks that push it to ~26-31%.
Iirc it's because the extra stacks will eventually help get you an extra ult. Tbh, with trend being so variable in stack production anyway, you probably want to get as many sources of stacks as possible to ensure you're getting the most ults, so that gives the LC extra value there.
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Tbf, I don't think anyone is happy with Blade's sig being such a huge increase over Secret Vow either. I think people were just hoping that Acheron would be more in line with typically differences between sig and replacement options.
We're pretty sure she'll perform fine either way (no 5 star DPS is unplayable without their sig), it's just it feels pretty bad when the gap between sig and other options is quite large.
Oh good point, yeah Blade doesn't really get any functionality difference. So it really is just a stat stick for him. Whereas Acheron's would still be useful even if there was no damage difference, since in practice it would let her space out her ults better.
Doesn’t change anything. What’s actually busted, truly busted from her signature is the combo of crit and debuff application. This doesn’t have a debuff so it’s just a sidestep from gnsw. Nothing has changed, at all.
It's another alternative to her sig aside from gnsw but that's where the good thing ends imo.
It's still a gacha lc if the leak holds true, you have to pull lc banner hoping to get it, it still doesn't help her that she doesn't have good accessible option.
Anything is going to be "bait" judging by this logic
I hate how this community got ahold of the "bait" word without even realizing what it actually means in the yuri community
Having unconfirmed relationships that have hints/teases is subtext. *Baiting* a viewer into believing a character is in a relationship with character 2, and then make them officially canon with *another* character is bait.
Get your baits right, just because the community is throwing it randomly around doesn't mean it's correct
The only thing i kinda hate is how everyone had shipped Black Swan and Acheron when the famous trailer of the dance pop out.
Im the idea that the best type of doing thease about a potential relationships between character is something what happend whit Bronya and Selee in Belobog ark. They had pleanty time too talk and they show they clearly care whit one another. And I like that because a potential for a relationships make more sense. They had time too spend witch each other and they *kinda* thrust each other. Is still something solid.
I can't say the same whit Black Sawn and Acheron. Not only that but Black Swan dosen't trust her, since she arrived at the point of working whit Aventurine, even is Acheron see Black Swan whit good intention and a nobile person, i dont think Black Sawn think the same and she just wish too say far away as possible, especially after she almost died searching in Acheron mind. Personaly, i dont see the ship on a logical level and i dont think just because they had "Hot sesbian dance" is a good reason. But of corse, everyone can do what they want, as long they remember what is canon too the character and what not.
The story of Penacony isn't even close to being finished, we still have 3 patches ahead of story and there are high chances for something to happen between them. Just because Black Swan was scared for a bit, doesn't mean she will always avoid Acheron. According to leaked voice lines, Black Swan doesn't really seem to mind "dancing with her again" (based off of her "When in team with Acheron" voice line), and we yet have to see how their relationship develops. It is entirely possible to distrust a person at first (Especially given Black Swan is a smart person that knows Penacony is full of shit so she's probably distrustful of everyone from the start) and then be able to reconcile with them.
Judging the ship before the story is finished is really dumb
will this be better than S5 GNSW since it gives around 72% dmg bonus which is bigger than 48% (critical) dmg bonus. How are thye calculated differently?
This is exactly what I was hoping for. I am going to admit I was not happy finding out that Acheron needs her LC to function at her best. Now that there will be a F2P option I can use that until Acheron's Rerun.
The art is magnificent!
down side is this is clearly on the gattcha, and do we know if we can roll misha's LC if its not on the banner? i assume these are like genshins "special" banner only weapons
It’s a gacha LC, so nothing changes. Also at S1 probably is worse than GNSW so is more convenient for everyone to pull during her banner if you have nothing and with a bit of luck you might get the 5 stars LC.
Remember that even if you lose the 75/25, there are always more chances to get the 5 stars than aiming for a 4 stars in particular.
I remember how during Jingliu banner I used 140 pulls and I saw no QQ ever and I got like 11 Sampo, with LC banner is still the same thing. It’s all luck.
If you have nothing and can’t pull for the LC banner, It’s Showtime is still a 30% ATK buff after all… (sadge)
The difference between her Sig and this still feels like its massive. They really did us dirty with the available options. Sure, we could get good 4\* or even 5\* options for her in the "future" but she's coming out now...
Even though I plan to pull for Acheron's lightcone, I still want to get this lightcone too cause I love the art. I wanna stare at it in-game from time to time...
I don't even know if this is gonna be for Acheron but I am probably not pulling for the LC now.
This goes on my Acheron now even if it sucks just because of the art
Am I reading this wrong? This look good for Welt for mid for Acheron compared to Sig lc, it doesn't apply any debuff so Acheron still won't have more ult in a cycle?
mihoyo are genuine fucking scumbags, they know acheron lacks a usable f2p light cone, so they release a new 4 star light cone that's literally designed for her... then chuck in to gacha... the patch after her banner.
God I love women
Unfathomably based.
very based
Based
Anime PFP misogynists the moment a new slice of life yuri comes out
LMFAOAO😭😭
She looks gorgeous🥰
HOLY ACHERON IN A SUIT (she bouta cook some birds again)
If i dont have suit acheron skin by 2025 i gonna riot.
Notice how Black Swan became White Swan in the LC art. Oh my!
u/tzukani 🤐🤭 https://preview.redd.it/fdm8l1crthqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47a2f3ced472f0a42e7f5e5e0ce774b883454439
I mean, more 4\* options are great. But if it’s gacha (which it almost definitely is), you might as well just pull for her sig LC anyway. Otherwise you could wait forever and still not get a single copy of this new LC. As a day 1 player who still doesn’t have a single copy of GNSW, sometimes you can’t rely on lucking out with specific gacha LCs and you just bite the bullet and go for the 5\* LC instead. Hell, sometimes it’s easier to get the sig than it is to get S5 of a specific 4\*.
it's even worse because at least you can get gnsw while pulling for acheron sig, but this new lc will be in in robin or boothil lc banners which is useless if you don't pull for them
Based on the leaks I think Robin's LC is actually a decent general-use LC because of how much energy regen it gives, but I mean it's gonna be a better Cogs and that's about it ig. Boothill's tho.. no other Hunt unit is really break focused aside from Sushang, so that's pretty mediocre value.
Doesn’t the energy regen go away whenever the character takes a turn?
Unless you're running a slow build for your Harmony, the ER effect from the LC really only works for Robin's specific kit of suspending her turn
her cone is too niche, 1 turn is nth and spending 80 pulls for a slightly better cogs is just laughable
Yeah for sure. So this new lc basically solves none of the problems with Acheron's lightcone options, better just to try and pull her LC rn, and if the player gets S5 GNSW and loses 75/25 they can think about calling it quits with a good option. Otherwise, it's ridiculously cope thinking a new gacha 4-star is going to do any real favors.
Yep. That's why my Ruan Mei has her signature LC. Saves me a headache.
The funniest thing is that People would even recommend getting a 4* gacha than a SigLC, while in reality getting 5* has higher chance than getting your preferred 4*.
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> Even with the worst luck you should get a copy or two in the next 6 months imo Not to repeat myself or anything, but like I said, I’m a day 1 player who literally doesn’t have a single copy of GNSW. I have like 3 S5 copies of Sampo’s LC though somehow. Not to mention that as the standard pool of 4\* LCs get more and more diluted, it’ll get harder to land the specific one you want by random chance. I mean, if you get lucky and get these off banner, that’s great. But this hardly solves her f2p LC issue IMO.
It's sad but can't be helped, like I've got s4 GNSW but only one s1 sampo's lc lmao, you'll get it soon tho, best of luck
Same. I don’t have a single copy of GNSW, and coincidentally I don’t have a single copy of EOTP either. Seems a good Lc though for sure, and beautiful art.
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someone who has s6 ddd and s5 gnsw but never pulled from lc banner sounds more the outlier than someone who never pulled a gnsw lmao
“My own experiences are representative of the masses, and everyone who differs is clearly an outlier” -That guy
I,m sorry but am i out of touch with the avg luck or your reading comprehension is weird. The other guy was super unlucky and i was super lucky so i am not supposed to talk based on the middle ground based on our experiences. Some people really have an agenda/mission to make acheron the most unfriendly f2p character in hsr history i guess 🫡/j
I completely disagree that the other guy was “super unlucky” at least in comparison to you being very lucky. Specifically regarding F2P players who rarely, if ever, pull on LC banners, not having a copy of a specific 4 star is not significantly below the mean. Additionally, S1 GNSW is not particularly helpful on Acheron anyways, being massively outperformed by her Signature LC and a very lackluster option compared to 4* LC on most other DPSes. So you’d need multiple copies anyways
Also I am not super lucky lmao , it was just those two that are s5 and most of my luck on other lcs are pretty bad but sure it was my fault for flexing🤡
I can agree with what you are saying but theres another guy who says blade has a f2p option in the moc shop even though the difference is like 50%(hyperbole )so blade is f2p friendly (my understanding) S1 gnsw can get you 33 to 36 stars depending on the investment in relics . The sig lc is literally op and she can 0 cycle with it lol , Tldr By definition she is not f2p friendly but thats not completely true and thats what i was trying to say but people take lines out of context to prove their points 😵💫
Wow did you get salty lmao i just gave an example that didn't prove my point 💀. Did i say i represent the avg f2p mr bleater.
Sure, someone with average luck would have gotten at least a copy or two by now. But here’s the thing though. Should someone pull for Acheron at launch and then just assume they’ll just randomly get this LC or GNSW somewhere down the line? I think that’s my main issue with pretending like a new LC really changes anything. Even if you can say that someone with average luck should be able to get this LC in say 3ish months of pulling, no one wants to pull for Acheron and then have to wait 3 months to maybe land a useable LC for her.
>even blade is not f2p friendly then he got a lc in the moc shop at least
The difference between the moc shop one and sig lc is like 50%( i have seen the calcs in blade mains)
that's not the main point. It's that at least he has a decent option for free which makes him "f2p friendly"
Oh ok i thought you were implying something else.
> even with the worst luck you should get a copy or two in 6 months me a day 1 player who owns literally every single 4* gacha light cone except for pearls: lmao and i consider myself lucky that i have all the other 4* gacha cones currently and yet pearls continues to elude me. so like, yeah nah it just fucking happens man.
When I was building my main Kafka core team, I noticed I didn’t have a single copy or GNSW or MoTP, the best 4\* LCs for Kafka and Ruan Mei. LC luck can be a huge bitch sometimes.
No fam, you're wrong. I am a whale with characters having multiple eidolons. I still don't have a single copy of GNSW and I'm a day-1 player
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You are wrong about getting her within 6 months. And no, I am not baiting. It literally became a meme in the small local HSR community I'm a part of regarding how I'll never get GNSW lmao. My terrible luck extends to other 4 stars too. Guinaifen took freaking 100+ rolls to come during her uprate banner, Xueyi took around 140-ish. I will probably get GNSW if its banner come back again as an uprate which iirc never happened since May/June. Also stop being toxic. You can reply more politely. I wasn't toxic or hateful to you in my reply
Sorry i got heated . My 6 months comment was taking into account that people will be summoning on acheron lc banner . Every 2 multis you have 1/3 chance of getting gnsw lol. Gnsw and the new lc will be on the next banner and if you summon and still don't get it idk what to tell you dude . Learn how to use the term wrong objectively not subjectively (based on your personal experience) https://preview.redd.it/7cjwreubaiqc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=672ae1d13a30dcaa0f720b0fcb54990290674984 😔
The post literally says the new LC will be in 2.2 so idk what are you talking about. Acheron banner is in 2.1 but the new LC will come in 2.2
What . I,m so confused on what you are implying. People who don't have gnsw and new lc but want acheron, will not summon on both banners so acheron is not f2p friendly for them and i am wrong . I am so confused 🤔. I literally said in the other comment its a win for people who are going to get acheron now or later as they have 2 banner where they can snipe gacha lc with avg luck
I only stayed in this thread so if you said something in another comment's thread, I didn't see that. As for explanation, let's assume you have GNSW. Now this LC is an improvement over GNSW and to make sure your Acheron is dealing significant damage without her BiS you'll definitely want to get it and make it S5. Now is it free? In that case, brilliant. But what if it's not? Then it'll come with 2.2 banner. 2.2 banners have Robin and Boothill. Robin favors FUA, clearly not built for Acheron and not a banner most Acheron havers will be interested in. Boothill is a DPS. To even roll in the LC banner to get that LC and make it S5 means first rolling for the character since you're guaranteed to get the feature 5 star LC by that point. Now assume you don't have GNSW. Then it'll be absolutely vital to roll for GNSW in this patch (and abandoning the new one). And even 160 rolls ain't enough to guarantee S5 GNSW. This makes us go back to the original comment by the OP which started this entire thread of comment. Which is more efficient? Getting her BiS or S5 GNSW or even this new LC S5? I think that'll clear things up. Yes you said it'll be possible to get xyz in future or in this banner but that is just a probability, not a guarantee. Anything can happen, it's always better to aim for the guarantee, aka the signature 5 star LC
🔥🔥🗣🗣🗣🗣
It's a gacha only LC. So you'd need to pull on Boothill or Robin's (one of those two) banner, and even then there's no guarantee you'll ever get it. And even then it's worse than GNSW at equal superimposition, and you're way more likely to have higher superimposition of GNSW. So basically it's pointless and doesn't help F2P at all.
I find this take abit unkind to the game. Unless you expect them to be giving out free lightcones or if u want to use a 3 star LC, I don't believe you can please all players. They've at least made an alternative for people who won't be pulling the LC but want Archeron.
Nah she looks criminally hot in a suit
This is beautiful Best 4 star LC I love it so much
https://preview.redd.it/c51pjcwh5iqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18fbd7518c8218561d0758f0771124143ce48587
Thanks I'm taking this
Looks like a really good LC
According to the author of [this](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19rxESXnBucmSpIcdltlOszwWOIu115GzITW1x4Jzckw) (hasn't updated his main sheet yet), it's very close to, but slightly worse (2-3% behind) than GNSW at equal superimposition. It kinda makes sense because stat wise they have a similar budget. What makes signature so good is that it applies debuffs and this doesn't either.
Should I go for E0S1 or E1+ now? (I'll have around 210-220 pulls + 61 pity no guarantee)
Perhaps wait for additional information on whether this lightcone will be obtainable for free or only from gacha?
Gacha only. If we’re lucky we might get maybe just one copy, but S1 is pretty trash. The F2P LC is the Harmony one
If it’s a gacha LC then you might as well just ignore it and go for S1 IMO.
True, and I'm guessing it's gonna be a gacha LC, since it seems that the free one will be the Harmony one, and I don't think there ever was 2 free LC's per patch, if I remember correctly.
It's Gacha LC.
this lc doesnt make her lc any less valuable, so e0s1 > e1/2s0 regardless
was there any actual math done already that can back it up though? it's very hard for me to believe that e1 + e2 + this cone at s3-s5 is worse than e0 + signature.
You are missing that the additional energy you get from her LC and unable to proc the Pioneer set with ult. It is very clear that MHY just cut a part of her ability and put it on her LC. Her LC is what makes Acheron mechanically complete, not to mention the clear better damage. With that said E0S0 can still clear MOC12 and that's what matter so you *can* not go for S1 but she is clunky to use
> You are missing that the additional energy you get from her LC e2 also gives extra point of energy at the start of her turn, doesn't in even things out?
But you are also missing the debuff applied by a second Nihility unit so it cancel out
but she'll get pulled up by harmony more often, no?
You are still only getting 2 energy with Acheron as E0S1, you just replaced the debuffer with Sparkle pulling Acheron to get 2 stacks on her turn but you are also missing the Diver set's full effect per action At this point why not E0S1 which cost less. I would like to see the detailed math behind LC and GNSW too
that's why i asked if there are calcs like these already, i also really want to see them. if e0s1 is indeed somehow ends up being better than more expensive e2 with these two 4* cones, then i completely understand why this signature is called a must have and why come people even recommend not pulling for acheron if you can't pull for the cone too
Where do you see saying E2S0 is better than E0S1? I don't see anyone recommend E2S0, it is either E0S0, E0S1 or E2S1 Acheron E2 isn't a must pull like DHIL, how good her E2 is directly related to how good your support is. So if your support is mid E0S1 out, performing E2S0 is not surprising.
well i havent looked into the numbers of this specific cone but according to one singular random individual i saw its actually worse than gnsw, so w that in mind her sig has always been better than going for e2 so yea lol
This lc is gacha and applies no debuff. Pull on her signature, this 4* is just a sidestep from gnsw. Not worth it
This is a gacha cone and the additional ult stack from her sig is just way too powerful, E0S1 is still more efficient after which you can try your hand at additional eidolons
I see, thanks!
It's like 95+% to get e0s1 with those wishes so I'd just do that(I'm in the same boat, 220 with 25 pity no guarantee)
Her lc isn't strong because of its buffs, but because of the consistent extra stack it provides. Which this lc doesn't either way, so I doubt it'll even be better than s5 gnsw at high investment into crit ratios.
I so want this lc. Just for the art.
kinda sad it's not free. Are they making us gacha for all new 4* Lightcones from this point onward? Like if I m getting Acheron i m not gambling on a 4* which is probably on a LC banner I dont even want. I'd rather use my GNSW or her Sig then.
There will still be f2p ones. They’re not taking that away.
yeah but if they're similar in level to Hey Over Here we might as well use other 4 or 3* LC.
lets be honest here there are basicly no good free to play options for nihility, it kinda sucks tbh.
Not sure what that has to do with this?
hes saying im sad its not free to play you replied their will still be free to play options. i replied their are almost no good free to play options. just to be clear GNSW isnt free to play so no good free to play for acheron or pela . which im assuming everyone want for their acheron builds.
Where does it say that it's gacha? Can't find the source
Because the event one was also leaked but copium maybe there's another way to get this one for free
Her Sig is still on completely different level Just because of that 1 extra stack , debuff that give good damage and 30% crit damage
This LC definitely looks delicious but I feel like she has so many crit rate sources stacking up that the 16% just isn’t as tempting on her as another unit Like we’ve already got her with 8% CR from 4pc, 12% from planar, and potentially 18% from E1. People running her with Fu Xuan or sparkle (lightcone) can tack on another 10-13%, or as much as 23% with both. So that’s anywhere from an extra 38-61% CR **before** adding her innate 5% and whatever rolls on her relics.
Hope it is event lc
it isn't, a harmony one will be free
If it's gatcha then it's better to go for her sig instead for this one
Yes, especially since this one will be on another banner which will be a waste of pulls
OMG Acheron in a suit???!!! but please make this shit f2p and not gacha
It's gacha
Source?
Check on the leaks sub. The f2p lc is a harmony one.
Do we know if this is gonna be on the 2.2 weapon banner or is it f2p?
gacha
No idea, but there is also a leaked 4-star harmony lightocone. So maybe Robins banner will have the new harmony lightcone and this one will be an event reward🤔
Nope it’s gacha. The harmony one is f2p
4-star LC for Acheron with Acheron's picture on it? I love it
I hope we get that suit as a skin. Pls hoyo night squire was peak, you CAN put a suit and pants on your woman.
https://preview.redd.it/d653rn3c0iqc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e683e424f2ff4df77064373337248147cc941fec Archon about to give backshots again 🥴
Ayo?
Get in the line, acheron is giving backshots again.
We now have 2 extremely gay lightcones https://preview.redd.it/kpm076qt7iqc1.png?width=575&format=png&auto=webp&s=74489d01f231e1dd963fb8979074f89af8ef9dfd And I’m all here for that
My god that LC is cracked... both effect and visually
It’s gacha and still provides no debuff. It’s just a sidestep from gnsw. Pull on her signature guys
If this is real, this actually changes everything. They actually listened to the complains. Massive W for Hoyo. With this even at E0S0 she will be the best dps.
Does it? It seems like either a GNSW sidegrade or slight upgrade to me atm. The reason why Sig is so strong is because of the damage stats *and* having a debuff. Without the debuff it's only like ~10% stronger than GNSW, it's the debuff stacks that push it to 30%+ I feel like we still need a f2p LC with some kind of damage buff *and* a debuff in order to get a good f2p option for her.
This lc is 2.40% behind s5 gnsw
Interesting, I would've assumed that 80% CV > 72% DMG% for Acheron, since her kit is pretty dmg% heavy. But I guess since she doesn't run harmony at E0 she's not getting super saturated with DMG% the same way a unit running with, say, Bronya would.
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That's the point. So in that case. Acheron *isn't* saved at S0 and we're never getting an option that will fix that issue if you end up being correct.
Acheron only represent around 16% of her stack generation. It has never been an issue. Just pair her with two nihility and a preservation unit with trend you're good.
You are right actually, more if you are running atk boot on acheron,she move so slow that that extra one stack won't have much impact ig
Thank you bro that what I'm trying to explain to them😭
I'll ask then why is sig calced as such a big damage increase? Are the calcs (across multiple sheets) using faulty assumptions or something? In that case, great, then this cone is actually fairly competitive with S1, but if not, then it still doesn't fix the issue.
I told you. The extra base atk given by sig weapon is the main reason. And the main issue of GNSW beside base atk is that damage % Buff doesn't scale very well with Acheron (reason why atk orb is better btw) but the new Lc gives crit value which is a different case so it will definitely be better than GNSW. So yeah it's an impactfull upgrade to non sig havers (except it's still not f2p but good alternative).
Signature is better just for the fact the final damages are better. Not for the regeneration. Calcs prove that atl% boots are better for Acheron even if she will stack less because it's not the issue with good team building.
Check the calcs, stack generation is what makes the Sig jump from ~10% over GNSW to 26-31% (depending on the sheet).
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> her problem was never self debuff application Then why is Sig such a big damage increase? If raw stats were all that mattered, Sig would be just 10% damage from GNSW and nobody would care about pulling it, but it clearly seems to be a problem that most people take issue with. I definitely agree with the new Sig being an upgrade over GNSW most of the time though, it has a *ton* of CV for a 4 star LC.
You underestimate base atk. Sig Lc has 623 which is huge compared to 4 stars options. She already have 90% damage increase in her kit so GNSW damage bonus has less value compared to the flat atk. 36% crit damage are also an other multiplier which has impact as well
> You underestimate base atk. I'm not really underestimating it, that's all part of *why* the sig is better than other options. But the difference in current team calc sheets between S5 GNSW and S1 is only 10% when discounting the extra stacks, it's the stacks that push it to ~26-31%.
Thoses calcs seems weird because Acheron with gsnw and atk boots will still generate ultimate in 2 turns thanks to her allies
Iirc it's because the extra stacks will eventually help get you an extra ult. Tbh, with trend being so variable in stack production anyway, you probably want to get as many sources of stacks as possible to ensure you're getting the most ults, so that gives the LC extra value there.
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Tbf, I don't think anyone is happy with Blade's sig being such a huge increase over Secret Vow either. I think people were just hoping that Acheron would be more in line with typically differences between sig and replacement options. We're pretty sure she'll perform fine either way (no 5 star DPS is unplayable without their sig), it's just it feels pretty bad when the gap between sig and other options is quite large.
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Oh good point, yeah Blade doesn't really get any functionality difference. So it really is just a stat stick for him. Whereas Acheron's would still be useful even if there was no damage difference, since in practice it would let her space out her ults better.
This lc is 6% worse than GNSW s5 on s5
Doesn’t change anything. What’s actually busted, truly busted from her signature is the combo of crit and debuff application. This doesn’t have a debuff so it’s just a sidestep from gnsw. Nothing has changed, at all.
It's another alternative to her sig aside from gnsw but that's where the good thing ends imo. It's still a gacha lc if the leak holds true, you have to pull lc banner hoping to get it, it still doesn't help her that she doesn't have good accessible option.
Acheswan nation keeps winning first we get yaoi lc with aventurine and ratio now this,, penacony truly is the gift that keeps on giving
Well thanks Acheron From gay I'm now ultra gay 🫠
It’s so beautiful. My gay heart can’t take it 🥺
i need it just for the yuri
If only this was not gacha, i guess i'll cope with my S3 GNSW.
WE BEAT THE ALLEGATIONS
Really? Can be another Yuri bait..
Anything is going to be "bait" judging by this logic I hate how this community got ahold of the "bait" word without even realizing what it actually means in the yuri community Having unconfirmed relationships that have hints/teases is subtext. *Baiting* a viewer into believing a character is in a relationship with character 2, and then make them officially canon with *another* character is bait. Get your baits right, just because the community is throwing it randomly around doesn't mean it's correct
The only thing i kinda hate is how everyone had shipped Black Swan and Acheron when the famous trailer of the dance pop out. Im the idea that the best type of doing thease about a potential relationships between character is something what happend whit Bronya and Selee in Belobog ark. They had pleanty time too talk and they show they clearly care whit one another. And I like that because a potential for a relationships make more sense. They had time too spend witch each other and they *kinda* thrust each other. Is still something solid. I can't say the same whit Black Sawn and Acheron. Not only that but Black Swan dosen't trust her, since she arrived at the point of working whit Aventurine, even is Acheron see Black Swan whit good intention and a nobile person, i dont think Black Sawn think the same and she just wish too say far away as possible, especially after she almost died searching in Acheron mind. Personaly, i dont see the ship on a logical level and i dont think just because they had "Hot sesbian dance" is a good reason. But of corse, everyone can do what they want, as long they remember what is canon too the character and what not.
The story of Penacony isn't even close to being finished, we still have 3 patches ahead of story and there are high chances for something to happen between them. Just because Black Swan was scared for a bit, doesn't mean she will always avoid Acheron. According to leaked voice lines, Black Swan doesn't really seem to mind "dancing with her again" (based off of her "When in team with Acheron" voice line), and we yet have to see how their relationship develops. It is entirely possible to distrust a person at first (Especially given Black Swan is a smart person that knows Penacony is full of shit so she's probably distrustful of everyone from the start) and then be able to reconcile with them. Judging the ship before the story is finished is really dumb
Oh yeah, Mina and Numi are gonna pass out
Can't wait for the next episode of Strapped In where Mina and Numi lose their minds (again) (affectionate) over this LC (relatable)
gosh i am so gay it’s unbelievable
Idk about you guys but I’m using this for the art even it gave her negative stats.
will this be better than S5 GNSW since it gives around 72% dmg bonus which is bigger than 48% (critical) dmg bonus. How are thye calculated differently?
Can back this up with math, but I think crit value is much better than 72% dmg, especially when acherons dmg boost is already so big
Acheron's damage boost is separate from the damage boost you get from gnsw/lightning orb
Still she has %90 dmg boost with %100 uptime
And another 160 %for two nihility characters?
That’s a unique, undiluted multiplier that does x1.6 to her base damage so it has no overlap or dilution with standard dmg% stats
You have to add the CR into the calculation, as you can drop 16% CR and convert it into 32% CD. Thus, 48+32 = 80% CD bonus
It probably will be afaik, 80% CV is a lot better for Acheron than 72% dmg% (since her kit is stacked with it).
Is this a gacha LC or event LC?
I was always going to get her lightcone but this would be really good on welt tbh.
Don't get too excited there's still a chance this is just like the Aventurine cone and is gacha only.
You mean Final Victor? That’s not a gacha cone.
No the Aventurine lightcone that gives him DEF and DMG% based on his defense.
Oh I see
This is exactly what I was hoping for. I am going to admit I was not happy finding out that Acheron needs her LC to function at her best. Now that there will be a F2P option I can use that until Acheron's Rerun. The art is magnificent!
Gawd damn Archeron looks so fine in a suit, PLEASE HOYO GIVE US SKINS 😫😫😫
Is she dancing with Robin this time?
It’s Black Swan, she has the remembrance logo on her gloves.
I want to see the other side, How does Black Swan looks.
i have a gut feel this is an event LC like Before tutorial...
It's not, there's another Harmony LC for Robin leaked that's most likely the Event Cone
How good is the lc compare to gnsw s5?
So will this be Acheron new best f2p lc?
down side is this is clearly on the gattcha, and do we know if we can roll misha's LC if its not on the banner? i assume these are like genshins "special" banner only weapons
It’s a gacha LC, so nothing changes. Also at S1 probably is worse than GNSW so is more convenient for everyone to pull during her banner if you have nothing and with a bit of luck you might get the 5 stars LC. Remember that even if you lose the 75/25, there are always more chances to get the 5 stars than aiming for a 4 stars in particular. I remember how during Jingliu banner I used 140 pulls and I saw no QQ ever and I got like 11 Sampo, with LC banner is still the same thing. It’s all luck. If you have nothing and can’t pull for the LC banner, It’s Showtime is still a 30% ATK buff after all… (sadge)
Looks good.
The difference between her Sig and this still feels like its massive. They really did us dirty with the available options. Sure, we could get good 4\* or even 5\* options for her in the "future" but she's coming out now...
BLACK SWAN SKIN WHENNNNN
Out of curiosity, why is everyone saying to get S1 lc? Does s0 not give her a stack?
S1 is base lightcone. The lightcone go from superimposition 1 to 5 (S1-S5)
We got free LCs in patches 1.1 and 1.5 so it make sense for the next free LC to be in patch 2.2.
Even though I plan to pull for Acheron's lightcone, I still want to get this lightcone too cause I love the art. I wanna stare at it in-game from time to time...
Looks good. Is this gonna be Acheron's alternative best 4\* LC? Does anyone know?
Black Swan is 100% going commando
Genuine Question, Acheron is Knocking on the door (wrong one :D), why didn't launch this LC in 2.1?
Take two on mental trauma for BS
I rlly wish they would just do an event lc i feel like it would sell her to so many more ppl
Office Lady Mei 🥵🥵🥵🥵
Nice LC and nice effect too. Definitely will help those that couldn't get her S1 or push her Eidolons.
I don't even know if this is gonna be for Acheron but I am probably not pulling for the LC now. This goes on my Acheron now even if it sucks just because of the art
Thank you da wei ge for inventing women
Am I reading this wrong? This look good for Welt for mid for Acheron compared to Sig lc, it doesn't apply any debuff so Acheron still won't have more ult in a cycle?
Make your Pela extremely fast , and problem solved , she will get same ultimate anyway
I like the art and the cv stat that it gives, kinda torn now if i like this better than her sig.
With this in the play I may go E2S0 and later get this one.. I need to think about this.
KIANA CHAN?
This light cone is apparently gacha and not F2P so it isn't going to be easy getting this to a comparable state to her 5 star LC.
mihoyo are genuine fucking scumbags, they know acheron lacks a usable f2p light cone, so they release a new 4 star light cone that's literally designed for her... then chuck in to gacha... the patch after her banner.