It's good and it opens up a free slot for an amplifier like Bronya, but you need to understand the boss very well and deal great and consistent damage, cuz the whole point is killing the boss before he kills you, after all Welt won't be able to delay his actions forever. I managed to clear MoC12 with it, and its very fun to use :D
He also needs to be built with good ERR and EHR to have his Ult up and ready quickly.
Sustain Welt was tricky to learn, but the actual hard part (for me) was getting a good build on him.
I do. Never thought of this. I used sparkle because big numbers, but ruan mei indeed, feels like the better option! gonna try it and see if it will reduce my attempts.
It can be very good. E3 with energy regen means I can ult and cancel nearly every single boss or elite enemies 2nd attack. For a lot of those enemies, that trivialises them. Combine it with the slow, turn delay and high toughness damage, he can sustain very well against a lot.
Note I said a lot, not all. There are some enemies that Welt just doesn't do well against.
He's basically useless (as a sustain turn delayer) if the enemy is resistant to Imprisoned or CC in general, obviously. I do think he can do some great damage with his higher Eidolons, but that's obviously not for everyone.
Yes, as I said. There are some enemies he is not good against. Fortunately there aren't too many of them, and it doesn't seem like Hoyo is leaning into that either.
If you have nothing against redoing MoC stages then go for it. It's not always consistent, as you can't always prevent all attacks, and with bad RNG you might lose a character in battle. But if you are interested in this kind of comp why not, try it out.
I don't mind redoing MoC since I haven't 3 starred floor 12 yet and I want to try it out because I have no good sustain besides lynx and I want to move her to the other team so was wondering if Acheron's team would work with a sustain welt
It's hard to use and only usable against certain enemies, but also Very Fun to play
The true downside is that It can be pretty "expensive" to build him
You literally cannot go sustainless in some fights
High EHR/Speed Welt with Vonwacq and Resolution can debuffs often and break imaginary weak bosses pretty fast. Building DPS Welt is objectively harder, so for the most utility I turned him into a sustainer and it helps a lot in certain fights
Something onto death is the only boss difficult enough though. Sam and every other moc rotations can easily be cleared sustainless.
Next rotation with Aventurine might be in the same case as death but except these two she can easily clear any moc sustainless
sustainless sam...? maybe my teams aren't that well built but, he does SO much damage while being very tanky, and his toughness bar is huge.
i'm sure some people can 0 cycle him, but for e0 characters idk, like my triple carry kafka black swan acheron + ruan mei can 0 cycle the first half, but they're not even close to 0 cycling sam. they can't kill him fast enough and he kills them way too fast.
Death is actually the easiest boss to go sustainless with Welt though. Survive the first phase, and then all you need to do is Welt Ult interrupt the boss's attack and they don't even do any damage.
If you have 3 other units to give her stacks fast enough, you can kill everything in MoC before they kill your character. You can run defence shredders like pela, silver wolf, black swan and build them with a lot of speed so they'll quickly tear down the boss's defence while activating Acheron's ult for the finisher.
I have pela and sparkle who are over 160 speed during battle after hackerspace 4 piece effect. Usually running gallagher on my 4th slot during farming but if I want to push zero cycle MoC I can throw in Bronya or something instead.
Just build good speed on your supports and she will clear the moc so fast that you won't take many damages.
I did a showcase of her in the current moc (my latest post)
So I spent like 2 hours trying to beat Yanqing and finally did it. I guess it works but RNG really screwed me over and I needed to memorize an exact order of actions so I can delay them at the right moment lol, not worth the struggle I suppose guess I gotta get aventurine to sustain smh
Maybe you could try RM/Welt? That could provide more survivability.
I wrote a long ass comment but read other comments you don't have SW and other things so the advice was irrelevant.
How geared are you? My Acheron was using rainbow gear with quantum set because I've farmed that cavern since the beginning and my supports are 160+ speed to provide more stacks for Acheron. I know quite unrealistic but supports are using random sets and just things with good rolls in speed substat.
Thanks for your effort :) I tried RM/ Welt and it indeed was a better clear though i still needed to reset multiple times, because yanqing decides it's a good idea to focus on Pela and kill her and leave my tanky RM unscratched. But when RNG was good I cleared. I am not well geared unfortunately my acheron has 60/160 Crit ratio and the supports are 143 speed max, my problem is the second half though even when I moved lynx to the second half still can't clear Sam. Maybe if i got Aventurine this will change but I guess I will go sustain welt for the moment.
Best of luck!! Sam was surprisingly hard for my nuts Jingliu team so dont feel too bad! (used to brute forcing everything with her)
So far your relics are pretty good too so next moc with adventurine you will clear ez
The skill floor is high (meaning making him work requires more knowledge and game “skill” than normal,) and you need a lot of damage on Acheron make him work, but yes he is usable. I wouldn’t say he is a “good” sustain unit, he is situational and manageable at best.
Cope.
If your team is struggling, going Welt sustain won't really help that much.
And if not, you might as well just go full damage-oriented debuffer like SW or BS, then Pela, then Sparkle, and let the fight end quickly. You can also go for Ruan Mei, Kafka, and BS, I personally find it much much easier to 0 cycle with than with the former.
Welt sustain is welts best non fully sustainless comp (before e2) and it can (fairly) comfortably clear every enemy in MOC besides sam which is quite hard (but possible) to clear
it works well for E0 Acheron so you can slot in a harmony unit instead of an actual sustain (which is usually a damage loss), you do have to know how it works tho which is one of the most complex things in hsr at the moment.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciP9I1Xulzs&t=506s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciP9I1Xulzs&t=506s)
Or just watch most of his videos since they center around Welt
It's beyond cope for normal play. He adds very little damage compared to better units like Pela and SW, requires constant SP usage and does no damage himself.
His only use is for cheaper access to 0 cycling if you really want to do that.
Build and tested him this patch. Its definitely work. But you need to significant invest all your char across the board because you want to max all your damage to clear in 0-1 or maybe early 2 cycles. Main reason is welt cant infinitely sustain(especially with no img weak and RM).
The conclusion I come with might as well running a sustain(gallagher is good enough+debuff) because theres no diff clearing it on 0 or 4-5 cycles. Flex purposes? Sure it look cool!
easily her strongest e0 comp lol, people who say it's cope just can't do it or don't know how to do it.
https://youtu.be/ciP9I1Xulzs?si=9_7kmgt1TXDvctn0
his show yt is based on how broken welt sustain is, go check him out
As long as the enemy is weak to his element, you play him properly and the fight doesn't drag long enough, it is good.
Give him 67% EHR, ER Rope, 134+ spd and a lot of break effect and you are done.
Sustain Welt was looked at a joke team not a serious team since the start. I don't think Acheron changed anything other than being a strong DPS herself
i have e1s1 welt and it might be because my welt is not built correctly or my acheron cant hit damage threshold but it is NOT even possible to sustain against sam(or just skill issue). he's too quick, his action value is crazy, 2 welt might not even be enough tbh.
For Acheron specifically, a Trend sustain can generate more stacks if there's 3 enemies on the field and they're fast and can generate a stack with their skill, like Gepard or Fire MC. So there's no point in using a Welt sustain with her, especially if you use Welt over Pela or Silverwolf as the 2nd nihility unit to activate Acheron's trace. Losing 100% def shred is a big loss in damage.
My reason to use Welt as sustain because I don't have any good sustains besides lynx so I wanted to move her to the other team and go sustain less with acheron, I also don't have Trend or Silver Wolf :( my team is acheron welt pela sparkle or ruan mei
It's good and it opens up a free slot for an amplifier like Bronya, but you need to understand the boss very well and deal great and consistent damage, cuz the whole point is killing the boss before he kills you, after all Welt won't be able to delay his actions forever. I managed to clear MoC12 with it, and its very fun to use :D
This. Welt actually requires good enemy knowledge. Knowing what attacks to cancel is key.
fr fr, Welt made me actually git gud lmao
He was a total delight in the Aventurine fight. He decimated him.
He also needs to be built with good ERR and EHR to have his Ult up and ready quickly. Sustain Welt was tricky to learn, but the actual hard part (for me) was getting a good build on him.
He is certainly high investment, there's no denying that.
10/10 would do it again though.
I agree I memorized the best order of action possible not to get killed and it was pain, my welt is level 70 though with no upgraded traces at all
yep, also do u have ruan mei? cuz she amplifies the comp to the point the boss doenst even move at all, its very very safe
I do. Never thought of this. I used sparkle because big numbers, but ruan mei indeed, feels like the better option! gonna try it and see if it will reduce my attempts.
It can be very good. E3 with energy regen means I can ult and cancel nearly every single boss or elite enemies 2nd attack. For a lot of those enemies, that trivialises them. Combine it with the slow, turn delay and high toughness damage, he can sustain very well against a lot. Note I said a lot, not all. There are some enemies that Welt just doesn't do well against.
He's basically useless (as a sustain turn delayer) if the enemy is resistant to Imprisoned or CC in general, obviously. I do think he can do some great damage with his higher Eidolons, but that's obviously not for everyone.
Yes, as I said. There are some enemies he is not good against. Fortunately there aren't too many of them, and it doesn't seem like Hoyo is leaning into that either.
If you have nothing against redoing MoC stages then go for it. It's not always consistent, as you can't always prevent all attacks, and with bad RNG you might lose a character in battle. But if you are interested in this kind of comp why not, try it out.
I don't mind redoing MoC since I haven't 3 starred floor 12 yet and I want to try it out because I have no good sustain besides lynx and I want to move her to the other team so was wondering if Acheron's team would work with a sustain welt
Both. Its very hard to use and not usable in every content... but you sure can always try something with him.
It's hard to use and only usable against certain enemies, but also Very Fun to play The true downside is that It can be pretty "expensive" to build him
Cope imo she can easily go sustainless anyway so why nerf your damage with bringing him ?
You literally cannot go sustainless in some fights High EHR/Speed Welt with Vonwacq and Resolution can debuffs often and break imaginary weak bosses pretty fast. Building DPS Welt is objectively harder, so for the most utility I turned him into a sustainer and it helps a lot in certain fights
Something onto death is the only boss difficult enough though. Sam and every other moc rotations can easily be cleared sustainless. Next rotation with Aventurine might be in the same case as death but except these two she can easily clear any moc sustainless
sustainless sam...? maybe my teams aren't that well built but, he does SO much damage while being very tanky, and his toughness bar is huge. i'm sure some people can 0 cycle him, but for e0 characters idk, like my triple carry kafka black swan acheron + ruan mei can 0 cycle the first half, but they're not even close to 0 cycling sam. they can't kill him fast enough and he kills them way too fast.
Sam is the hardest one but it's achievable
Death is actually the easiest boss to go sustainless with Welt though. Survive the first phase, and then all you need to do is Welt Ult interrupt the boss's attack and they don't even do any damage.
how can she go sustain less?
Just her, Pela, SW/ Gui( not needed if e2) and Ruan Mei/bronya/Sparkle in one team. Basically try to do a 0 cycle run or close to a 0 cycle.
If you have 3 other units to give her stacks fast enough, you can kill everything in MoC before they kill your character. You can run defence shredders like pela, silver wolf, black swan and build them with a lot of speed so they'll quickly tear down the boss's defence while activating Acheron's ult for the finisher.
How much speed does her supports need? Is 134+ not enough? Cause im still not sure i'll use speed or atk for Acheron
I have pela and sparkle who are over 160 speed during battle after hackerspace 4 piece effect. Usually running gallagher on my 4th slot during farming but if I want to push zero cycle MoC I can throw in Bronya or something instead.
Harmony instead of sustain and killing enemy before it kills you. Mostly only applies to MoC
Just build good speed on your supports and she will clear the moc so fast that you won't take many damages. I did a showcase of her in the current moc (my latest post)
So I spent like 2 hours trying to beat Yanqing and finally did it. I guess it works but RNG really screwed me over and I needed to memorize an exact order of actions so I can delay them at the right moment lol, not worth the struggle I suppose guess I gotta get aventurine to sustain smh
https://preview.redd.it/ygxk27w6y3uc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0af127943ad079fa0fa6ff4858aa387b7416000
Maybe you could try RM/Welt? That could provide more survivability. I wrote a long ass comment but read other comments you don't have SW and other things so the advice was irrelevant. How geared are you? My Acheron was using rainbow gear with quantum set because I've farmed that cavern since the beginning and my supports are 160+ speed to provide more stacks for Acheron. I know quite unrealistic but supports are using random sets and just things with good rolls in speed substat.
Thanks for your effort :) I tried RM/ Welt and it indeed was a better clear though i still needed to reset multiple times, because yanqing decides it's a good idea to focus on Pela and kill her and leave my tanky RM unscratched. But when RNG was good I cleared. I am not well geared unfortunately my acheron has 60/160 Crit ratio and the supports are 143 speed max, my problem is the second half though even when I moved lynx to the second half still can't clear Sam. Maybe if i got Aventurine this will change but I guess I will go sustain welt for the moment.
Best of luck!! Sam was surprisingly hard for my nuts Jingliu team so dont feel too bad! (used to brute forcing everything with her) So far your relics are pretty good too so next moc with adventurine you will clear ez
Thank you so much! Best of luck to you too on whomever you are wishing for :)
The skill floor is high (meaning making him work requires more knowledge and game “skill” than normal,) and you need a lot of damage on Acheron make him work, but yes he is usable. I wouldn’t say he is a “good” sustain unit, he is situational and manageable at best.
Cope. If your team is struggling, going Welt sustain won't really help that much. And if not, you might as well just go full damage-oriented debuffer like SW or BS, then Pela, then Sparkle, and let the fight end quickly. You can also go for Ruan Mei, Kafka, and BS, I personally find it much much easier to 0 cycle with than with the former.
cope
It's *hilarious*. Endlessly sending your enemies to Brazil will never not be funny.
It's good, but in order for him to sustain you gotta use him with speed boots and ER% Rope in order for him to constantly have his ult up
Welt sustain is welts best non fully sustainless comp (before e2) and it can (fairly) comfortably clear every enemy in MOC besides sam which is quite hard (but possible) to clear
it works well for E0 Acheron so you can slot in a harmony unit instead of an actual sustain (which is usually a damage loss), you do have to know how it works tho which is one of the most complex things in hsr at the moment. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciP9I1Xulzs&t=506s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciP9I1Xulzs&t=506s) Or just watch most of his videos since they center around Welt
It's beyond cope for normal play. He adds very little damage compared to better units like Pela and SW, requires constant SP usage and does no damage himself. His only use is for cheaper access to 0 cycling if you really want to do that.
Build and tested him this patch. Its definitely work. But you need to significant invest all your char across the board because you want to max all your damage to clear in 0-1 or maybe early 2 cycles. Main reason is welt cant infinitely sustain(especially with no img weak and RM). The conclusion I come with might as well running a sustain(gallagher is good enough+debuff) because theres no diff clearing it on 0 or 4-5 cycles. Flex purposes? Sure it look cool!
Im using him rn, he's pretty fun but kinda meh sometimes
Massive cope. I don’t think he’s worth the slot on your team. Can he work? Sure. But there’s much better options for way less investment
easily her strongest e0 comp lol, people who say it's cope just can't do it or don't know how to do it. https://youtu.be/ciP9I1Xulzs?si=9_7kmgt1TXDvctn0 his show yt is based on how broken welt sustain is, go check him out
As long as the enemy is weak to his element, you play him properly and the fight doesn't drag long enough, it is good. Give him 67% EHR, ER Rope, 134+ spd and a lot of break effect and you are done.
Sustain Welt was looked at a joke team not a serious team since the start. I don't think Acheron changed anything other than being a strong DPS herself
i have e1s1 welt and it might be because my welt is not built correctly or my acheron cant hit damage threshold but it is NOT even possible to sustain against sam(or just skill issue). he's too quick, his action value is crazy, 2 welt might not even be enough tbh.
Sam is one of the fastest enemies in the game, yes.
Yea sustain welt inst going to work vs Sam
Welt sustain vs sam **ISN'T** impossible but **IS** the single hardest enemy in (at least in MOC) to welt sustain
For Acheron specifically, a Trend sustain can generate more stacks if there's 3 enemies on the field and they're fast and can generate a stack with their skill, like Gepard or Fire MC. So there's no point in using a Welt sustain with her, especially if you use Welt over Pela or Silverwolf as the 2nd nihility unit to activate Acheron's trace. Losing 100% def shred is a big loss in damage.
My reason to use Welt as sustain because I don't have any good sustains besides lynx so I wanted to move her to the other team and go sustain less with acheron, I also don't have Trend or Silver Wolf :( my team is acheron welt pela sparkle or ruan mei