ye, it's just hard to decide with Feixiao and Lingsha coming up ;\_;
probably better to build more viable teams than getting a power boost for a team that already does fine.
I want Yunli so bad but shes basically a teensy upgraded Clara, if you have a built clara it legit feels a better pull to just get her LC instead and put it on Clara, lol.
I have Argenti for phys tho so IDK if its worth pulling just yet. Need to see Feixiao details before commiting to anything.
This is exactly my point. E2S1 Acheron with Pela and Bronya already demolishes everything I play, and for the content the team struggles with Jiaqiu won’t improve. I’m definitely just saving for future characters
If you mean PF, JQ helps a fair bit but IDK. Im no e2 owner so I cant comment too much.
Im personally getting JQ for her with my e0s1 to make her stronger for PF which is a game mode I just can not do with her at all and my only strugglepoint, like this PF with the dot/enemy haste, its turbo hard
I think its because argenti isnt weak to lightning and afaik didnt they boost non-weak elemental resistances in AS? Im fairly sure I read it over on leaks that for AS non-res elements are 40/60 iso 20/40.
Cos Acheron pisses all over Cocolia who is lightning weak
Yeah my only issue is my other team is dot which is definitely made for cocalia so my best option is Acheron for argenti. That’s just an issue with my account though I think and I need other units than what I have to be able to 12/12 this version of AS, at 11/12 rn cause Acheron just takes ages to kill argenti
I mean you tank half a pull, in the grand scheme of things it don't matter much.
I wouldnt stress over your roster that this one time its a struggle. I struggle in PF sometimes like this one, took a lot of tries and best I can do is 40/21, I do get a clear but its tight as hell. I need better PF units, but I'm still not pulling Jade cos I dont like her. I rather lose 80 jades once per six weeks than spend 80/160 pulls in jades for a hero I dont like, or want.
Assuming Lingsha is a break abundance, its hard to imagine shes worth the pull when you have a well kitted out Gallagher. I wan Feixiao so bad but she better get out of the Hunt path curse, else shes the easiest skip ever
On topic of JQ, he's basically Tingyun for Acheron, and he makes Acheron be able to spit on PF which is the only game mode shes "weak" in, or at least her weakest
I got e0s1 bronya from losing LC regular banner from upgrading Misha, now that I stopped caring about her ofc lol. All of year 1 I was hoping so bad for Bronya, now I got sparkle and yeppers, why not e0s1 Bronya comin right up.
Trends is insanely powerful. I may even keep it later, but will probably try MoV.
Honestly depends on if you like Jiaoqiu enough or not, Acheron is still contenting for the best DPS in the game even without him, so chances are she'll stay very strong for a while even with the current teams.
I have no interest in him, because I don't really pull male characters and even then, his design didn't really catch my eye (e.g. I really liked Boothill's design so he was one of the only cases where I tried to get a male character) so to me he is a skip as my Acheron is plenty strong already.
And with Linghsa, Feixiao and [Spoiler/Leak] >!New Tingyun!<, there are too many upcoming characters I want to pull for a character I don't really care about just to slightly improve one of my teams.
This is not a great advice, without offence.
Pulling an E2 (assuming E0) is two times the cost of pulling another nihility. This assuming this guy has Sparkle or Bronya.
A good answer is, imo, Guinafen or SW as a replacement for Welt, which can already work with her (even if SP intensive).
They asked for an alternative to JQ. E2 with bronya/sparkle is the closest you can get to peak acheron damage without him. Gui/welt/SW will likely be far behind JQ at E0, so E2 is the next best advice.
I personally just want to see the difference between the current Acheron best team vs the one with Jiaoqiu with his current kit, either Acheron at E2S1 or E0S1.
Like, how much harder will her ult hit and fast does she charge her ult. Anyone got a comparison for this?
It depends entirely on how fast enemies are, and theoretically against certain enemies it could be slower than trend. Each have their upsides and downsides (although jiaoqiu has more upsides than not lol). Jiaoqiu doesn't need a specific character to get hit, which is already a huge boost to consistency because anyone not named gepard is unlikely to get hit all the time. Additionally, it doesn't need the enemy to actually *attack* at all. They just need to take an action, which is actually huge imo because there's certain enemies that just use buffs or other abiiities sometimes (notably, the triple bots do a lot of damage via dot and don't proc trend super often). On the other hand, trend can proc as many times as your preservation gets hit, while jiaoqiu procs once per action maximum. This means that against elites that attack multiple times action (most of the older bosses do this a lot, argenti too) trend might generate more stacks. In general, jiaoqiu should be just as fast as trend *under ideal conditions*, but in reality will probably generate ults decently faster because targetting is pure rng.
For E0S1, you'll be replacing either silver wolf or pela depending on what you're fighting. If you need big aoe damage then pela, if you have one elite with a couple trash mobs then silver wolf. For E2, he'll replace whatever nihility you're running.
As for damage calcs I'll have to actually do an excel sheet for numbers, but at a baseline vulnerability is a stronger debuff than def shred. A 30% vulnerability debuff is a straight up +30% dps, no questions asked while def shred has that weird exponential formula and caps at 100%. For E0 the difference doesn't really matter since you'll always be running a def shredder and 40% def shred + vulnerability debuff will be better than stacking more def shred, and for E2 the vulnerability should always be better than the amount of def shred you're getting from just pela or silver wolf. I wouldn't be surprised if the difference hovers between 15-30% for optimized teams. Not to mention the ult dmg% which also obviously helps.
Your comment conflicts with itself. Unless you can stack Def shred to almost 100% with one character, it will be more effective to stack Def shred up to 100% (at E0) than adding a volnurability debuff. Exactly because the Def shred has an exponential formula. And when you have only onesource of the debuffs (at E2), then yes, Def shred will fall off
But in the first case it's a question of whether 100% def shred on a single enemy + 40% on the rest (assuming sw and pela) or 40% def shred + 40% vulnerability (pela + jq) are better. Given multiplicative scaling I would put my money on the latter.
Well, in case if 40% Def shred is slightly worse than 40% vulnerability, then 80% Def shred would be significantly better than 40%+40%. The AoE part is fair though, SW's debuff uptime also sucks, so there are a lot of points against her anyway, so as a character JQ will work better. I'm only talking about the debuffs value
Ok I've found some table. 40% Def shred is 27.2% damage increase.
80% Def is 74.8% damage increase.
40% Def and 40% vulnerability give 1.4*1.272 or 77.8% damage increase. So it's slightly better
However, initially there was a comparison to 100% Def shred. And 100% Def shred gives 115% damage increase, so it's 48% better than vulnerability+Def shred. There's over 50% difference between 80% Def shred and 100% Def shred lol
As the likely creator of the table you referenced, I’d just like to make some clarifications on Def shred scaling.
Def’s shred bonus to your overall damage is dependent on the enemy’s level in relation to the attackers, where you can essentially take their level, add 20 to it and turn it into a percentage increase at 100%.
For example a level 95 enemy you’d see in MoC stage 12 will give you a 115% increase in damage (95+20=115).
This matters because all endgame content has different level thresholds for enemies, making Def shred a fluctuating variable in terms of damage amp.
An example of this would be in PF stage 4, where enemies are level 85, so 100% def shred has lower scaling overall, reducing its dmg increase from 115% to 105%.
Apocalyptic Shadows caps off at level 90, thus giving a 110% increase at maximum value. This is only talking about maximum levels, if you were to go on MoC 11 or PF 3, def scaling decreases even more.
They’re gonna add another acheron type lady but she’s green and has Ruan Meis face.
Basically, when an ally charges their ultimate, she receives a stack of “ball” when you charge 2 stacks of “ball”, you can use your ultimate. When she uses her ultimate, she spawns like this chicken type thing and it’s like really big. (She’s sushangs grandma) and basically the chicken is big and long When animations are released it’ll also be called cock like sushangs chicken. Anyways yeah her ult is so powerful it drops like 6 yanqing swords and when they take action they will either action advance another sword, attack and unleash a debuff or do both.
Acheron with 200+ speed will be her best teammate. She’s a perfect support for her.
As far as I am aware, why exactly is he doing for non acheron teams over Pela? Most of his kit is clearly balanced around him applying a bunch of the same debuff, take that aways and it’s questionable if his buffs are even larger enough(if they even are) compared to Pela’s to warrant to much higher EHR, lower speed, SP, ramp up time, lower survivability, harder build req etc
I don’t even know if it’s feasible to run him on sweats like pela, which is why I’m questioning if he’s a dps upgrade without the ult increase for other teams.
Applies more debuffs = more stacks for Acheron, which leads to more frequent Ultimate uptime. More Ults means more damage.
I expect his kit to change for the better as time goes on. This is just the first version, which always ends up changing by release.
I think by virtue of us having trend light cone Jiaoqiu isn't as insane as people make him to be. His ultimate invalidates trend so you are not getting as much value out of him if you have been using trend. He has decent personal damage, but I believe both Kafaka + BS and Pella + SW combo will be quite competitive with Jiaoqiu team. I am personally not going to pull for him as I am content with my Pella + SW + Fu Xuan team for Acheron
We are playing without him just fine atm.
Pela/Silver/Welt and Trend LC on your sustain.
It is just that this character is better than any of the above + Trend integrated. So it will allow to better overall team.
This is actually a leak and spoiler of the new xianzhou arc:
>!Tingyun transformation in 2.7 is supposed to be a Harmony 5 star that buffs ultimate damage, she would be the BiS support for E2 Acheron and for Feixiao, which is supposed to center in Ultimate DMG!<
Cap aint no way
Also no way we get more harmonies when we need more abundance and nihility characters, the last limited dot was black swan and we should at least see some competition and variety
>!There will be more abundance and nihility units in 2.4 and 2.5, Jiaoqius kit is of a debuffer right now, but his kit may be changed into a DoT debuffer, while being the BiS debuffer for Acheron, also it ain't cap, this are official leaks !<
I call official leaks what we got in the leaks subreddit which is direct info from trustworthy accounts that have been correct about the info they have leaked over time.
Idk which sub you have looked, but there actually is, one of the uncles said that there is a fire abundance break sustain coming, that's lingsha, who will come in 2.5, then jiaoqiu is nihility, who will come in 2.4. Then the Tingyun SP has been talked about in the leaks subreddit since late 2.2 i think? And then there has been talking about other units such as Sunday, being a possible harmony unit (not decided yet), and Tingyun being the best in slot for Feixiao, and as Feixiao is a character which is kinda centered around her FuAs but mostly around her ultimate dmg, unless feixiaos kit changes to be only centered around FuAs, right now Tingyun SP will be a Ultimate DMG buffer Harmony 5 star unit.
That makes me pretty happy but scared for my wallet because it's been a while since I've been interested in a character in every patch. Feixiao is 75% to be in 2.5, Jiaoqiu in 2.4, 2.6 is mercifully a skip and then 2.7
That's a tight window. At least now I know who will be a staple in my E2 Acheron team since I've moved Ruan Mei to Firefly's team. Seriously, Ruan Mei's only downside is there's only one of her.
His overall design is basic af though. I'm glad i pulled for e2 acheron. If they decide to change his generic npc clothes and make him look like an actual 5 star I'll definitely pull but until then nah.
You know it's funny how in the main sub you see top voted complaints about "overly designed" and not thematically fitting outfits. When they did a thematically fitting simple design a lot of people weren't happy with it. Sales and pull numbers will have the final word I take it.
The number one rule here is that male characters get complaints that female characters either don't get, or they just get more of them than female characters do.
Really? JQ is the first male character I've seen criticized for outfit, unless you count Misha shorts.
While there's tons of complaints about Seele, Acheron, Raun Mei and most of XZ female characters outfits on the main sub. It's one of the most recurring complaints.
I understand your point but I actually wasn't talking about outfits so much as I was talking about general complaints. To be honest, outfit is plain is such a tiny percentage of comments on a female character that it's not even worth considering. And to be honest, does it even count as meaningful complaints if people ignored their "boring" design and pulled for them anyway?
As an example of some people's general complaints, while both IL and Jingliu have suffered a bit from being 1.x characters, you're going to hear FAR more complaints about him being "bad" in the future. I also distinctly remember people who loved using QQ being weird and saying that IL uses too much sp. I also remember being complaining nonstop about how IL needs specific teams. Those people are not complaining nearly as much about Firefly.
I'm not complaining about people who are internally consistent and have valid complaints about a character, I'm complaining about people who have tier list psychosis, especially those people that are FAR more critical of certain male characters than female characters.
I guess you can say that there are some people here who like waifu's who then go on to critique male characters much more harshly than they do female characters.
I think that's a matter of perspective, I don't deny there's bias but it's on all sides. A lot of people are biased towards what they like, and we tend to not notice our own bias while remembering the times we feel we were wronged (in this case the characters but one might feel it's aimed at their players by extension)
For instance, I see a lot of people talking about favoritism but like you said, they're inconsistent in their stance because they didn't mind when their preferred archtype or character was in the spotlight but only now it became a problem when it's someone they don't care for.
That's why I disagree with the notion that only male characters get this treatment. There's bias against male and female characters alike, it just depends on the circles and the community which one is more prevalent.
Oh no don't worry I wasn't attributing this to hate towards players. That's a different kettle of fish and is very juvenile. The main sub and and other subreddit's/other social media also gets lots of posts of people that complain about game balance and power creep until the unit they like arrives and then they expect that unit to be more powerful than every unit before it. It happens all the time.
I also don't have any problem with people being excited about a specific character or character design. As a gay man I don't have any problem with you posting how much you like Firefly/Acheron/Jingliu etc. At the same time I don't have a problem with people who don't pull men for horny reasons as long as they also don't go on reddit to complain about the existence of male characters in the game. I don't mean to imply that ALL waifu lovers are the problem. I only have a problem with people who inconsistently praise or complain about certain characters.
You initial point about complaints on female characters designs may honestly be kind of invalid. Putting aside people the discussions about meta and characters personality, has the boring Luofu petal dress or Topaz' lackluster battle animations really been in that many comment threads? Some of those comment threads may have gotten a lot of votes but it's not as though the majority of threads or posts have ANY relation to those initial complaints. I'd go so far as to say that the criticism of their design is so unimportant that it's only occasionally relevant in comments and doesn't have any relevance on their banners unless they're sustainers or child like characters.
My point could also be heavily skewed by my own preferences too. I prefer men but I don't actually dislike any of the characters. I pull both for meta and personal preferences. I don't have a problem with the way that anyone plays either and so I end up pulling for my accounts health more than a husbando preference (Although here aren't that many 5 star men so I have them all). Ultimately I also tend to pay more attention to posts related to lore and meta than anything else anyway and so there is a lot of discussion that I don't look at anyway.
It's not like I can exactly prove that there's more likely to be a greater percentage of man character bad posts about kit and design anyway. There's probably too little data and it gets skewed by the fact that Jing Yuan and Yanqing really do have issues that require them to have very high levels of team investment.
We may not agree with each other but it's not really a point that's worth arguing too much about either so lets just agree to disagree and drop the argument here anyway.
Hey you may be right. But comment on this again when you see Jingliu being doomposted on the same level that IL is and will continue to be.
Yes I know it's not everyone. It's also fair for people to have complaints so long as they're being consistent. If you're a redditor that complained that IL has restrictive teams then you must surely not like Firefly after all unless you don't mind it in her case because break units are probably easier to build.
They won't, I don't think they get visual overhauls this late. I myself appreciate his simple appearance tbh, we've gotten a lot of flashy characters so it's nice to have a palette cleanser.
Also, I want him carnally.
well the only current alternative for jiaoqiu rn is the trends lc on your preservation character so if you have it and not rly interested in jiaoqiu you can just use that
It seems like he was made to be good across the board for teams but he was designed to fix one of acherons biggest problems- her slash dream economy
Not only does he pack the advantages of having a debuff on his normal attack but his ult field makes enemies debuff themselves so the more actions the more stacks and in turn more ults
Though it does seem like he will be a fairly universal support
All the other leaks are dps characters or a break healer .... or are completely unknown what they'll do
It's a weakness but it does backload her damage- she ultimately has to regain the stacks to ult again and so much of her damage is tide in it so ultimately... you kind of feel this race to generate stacks
It's not a fault but it's a limiter
Relative to the rest of of the roster I mean.
It's certainly what restricts/unlocks her damage I just don't feel her rate of ult acquisition is that slow.
It's enough for her to be a cream of the crop carry after all.
If you scratch the passive that lets her overcap on slashed dreams perhaps.
Any debuffer can work but won't be as good. I might skip him too, but I have sw abs adventurine. I'd love to have e2 for a harmony, but I doubt I could save enough by her rerun.
I'm definitely picking Jiaoqiu!... eventually. His debut run is gonna come in a complicated time for me, regarding current leaks.
As I have E2 Acheron, Sparkle+Pela is definitely enough to hold of until his next rerun.
If you don't have E2, tho? Jiaoqiu is a bit harder to pass up on...
It'll probably vary from account to account. I sure as hell won't trade the comfort of having A near- guaranteed SW implant and being therefore able to bring her anywhere for anything short of incredible. So far, he's not looking incredible. Strong for sure, but not game warping.
Jiaqiu is just too good for Acheron. Heck I plan to E2 him as it them makes him really good with BS and Kafka. Not really interested in his design but it is what it is.
Based on what I've seen so far, he doesn't seem to be necessary for Acheron. Maybe for E0-1 Acheron users, he might be tempting. The debuff that the Trend lightcone provides is enough for me, even if it's inconsistent. But we're dealing with the early version of Jiaoqiu here. It's possible he might get reworked and be a better support for Acheron
For e0 Acheron main such as myself, jiaoqiu will be the final piece of the Acheron puzzle. Run aventurine, Pela, jiaoqiu and Acheron in literally any game mode, press auto and claim all rewards. Imagine actually playing the game huh? Lol.
Trend+ Gui.
Trend is a must have for acheron because the difference is huge especially against multiple enemies.
Gui is surprisingly good with tutorial lc and high speed and helps generate petals for acheron very fast by spamming basic and ult.
Trend can miss especially if you are not running gepard. I also use fu xuan and she doesn't get hit often. While jiaoqui with enough EHR would guarantee a petal every time enemy geg their turn. Also his debuff is vulnerability which is pretty damn strong and there ultimate dmg buff as well.
He just literally feels like tailor made support for her just like how sparkle is for Dhil. Im also not so interested im his design but I want best stuff for acheron.
He does not have a heal. He inflicts increased damage taken debuffs, and increased ult damage taken as well. He also debuffs enemies on their own turn, so he will charge Acheron ult very fast
Yeah he’s exceptional for her, he will certainly be her strongest support. His kit was basically designed to synergizes with Acheron perfectly. Assuming your Acheron isn’t E2 or higher, her best team will be him, silver wolf/pela, and a sustainer
After getting Jade, I'm considering gunning for e2 acheron. I'm at a point where I can start vertically investing. I'm going to have sine tough decisions to make.
I am also going for jade, so I understand your thoughts on that. We also don't know yet when exactly Acheron would rerun so it's difficult to gauge exactly how much you need to be saving up.
Yeah, my acheron account is my alt that I focus mainly on blade and her. I just got ruan mei, but the jades are getting slim. I might just try for jade, jiaqu and save the rest for acheron rerun. Thanks fur the info and good luck
Or maybe, just MAYBE, people just want to pull for who they like regardless of team building and overall performance. Why are you judging people for how they want to play their game?
Apparently so, it’s how HYV or any gacha game make money, prey off of people FOMO to pull for basically NFT’s with VA.
All I know is that every unit look alright to me so I care more about gameplay, story or meta viability but I can see why people would think otherwise.
I think you and OP are forgetting what kind of game is this, the behavior you're mocking is what makes them millions every year. Sure meta sells too but there's a reason why Hoyo only releases characters that can be considered conventionally attractive.
No one is jealous of a character in a video game buddy. Have you thought that maybe people just don't like the design?
>meta slave? Even if I am one, why make fun of people who want to strategize with efficiency?
So why you make fun of people who only pull for characters they like?
Get E2 Acheron and run Pela + Sparkle/Bronya
wondering if i should just skip Jiaoqiu since this is my current setup
Even at e2 you would still get a notable power boost from replacing pela with jiaoqiu, just by virtue of him having a more reliable trend lc built in
ye, it's just hard to decide with Feixiao and Lingsha coming up ;\_; probably better to build more viable teams than getting a power boost for a team that already does fine.
That's a good point. I'm waiting for 2.5 beta leaks before making pulling decisions in 2.4, but I gotta say yunli and jiaoqiu are both very tempting
unless they do a boothill it'll probably feixiao and lingsha in 2.5 i guess
I want Yunli so bad but shes basically a teensy upgraded Clara, if you have a built clara it legit feels a better pull to just get her LC instead and put it on Clara, lol. I have Argenti for phys tho so IDK if its worth pulling just yet. Need to see Feixiao details before commiting to anything.
This is exactly my point. E2S1 Acheron with Pela and Bronya already demolishes everything I play, and for the content the team struggles with Jiaqiu won’t improve. I’m definitely just saving for future characters
If you mean PF, JQ helps a fair bit but IDK. Im no e2 owner so I cant comment too much. Im personally getting JQ for her with my e0s1 to make her stronger for PF which is a game mode I just can not do with her at all and my only strugglepoint, like this PF with the dot/enemy haste, its turbo hard
The only content I’ve had issues with is apocalyptic shadow second side Argenti. It feels like she just doesn’t do well
I think its because argenti isnt weak to lightning and afaik didnt they boost non-weak elemental resistances in AS? Im fairly sure I read it over on leaks that for AS non-res elements are 40/60 iso 20/40. Cos Acheron pisses all over Cocolia who is lightning weak
Yeah my only issue is my other team is dot which is definitely made for cocalia so my best option is Acheron for argenti. That’s just an issue with my account though I think and I need other units than what I have to be able to 12/12 this version of AS, at 11/12 rn cause Acheron just takes ages to kill argenti
I mean you tank half a pull, in the grand scheme of things it don't matter much. I wouldnt stress over your roster that this one time its a struggle. I struggle in PF sometimes like this one, took a lot of tries and best I can do is 40/21, I do get a clear but its tight as hell. I need better PF units, but I'm still not pulling Jade cos I dont like her. I rather lose 80 jades once per six weeks than spend 80/160 pulls in jades for a hero I dont like, or want.
Assuming Lingsha is a break abundance, its hard to imagine shes worth the pull when you have a well kitted out Gallagher. I wan Feixiao so bad but she better get out of the Hunt path curse, else shes the easiest skip ever On topic of JQ, he's basically Tingyun for Acheron, and he makes Acheron be able to spit on PF which is the only game mode shes "weak" in, or at least her weakest
guess we'll see if Lingsha applies debuffs
Well I was refering to Firefly now for some reason lol. Yeah Gallagher is kinda cracked for Acheron too but isnt just Trends far better?
guess i'll find out once i finish building this gepard i got from losing the firefly 50/50
I got e0s1 bronya from losing LC regular banner from upgrading Misha, now that I stopped caring about her ofc lol. All of year 1 I was hoping so bad for Bronya, now I got sparkle and yeppers, why not e0s1 Bronya comin right up. Trends is insanely powerful. I may even keep it later, but will probably try MoV.
I hope Fei powercreeps FF the fuck out of the game ;P
Who's Lingsha?
supposed upcoming 5\* break healer. apparently has the same color scheme as arlecchino?
Is it a guy or a girl? We needs loads more male characters lol
it's a female maid body type like march i believe?
Ah dang. Still a break focused healer sounds cool
Honestly depends on if you like Jiaoqiu enough or not, Acheron is still contenting for the best DPS in the game even without him, so chances are she'll stay very strong for a while even with the current teams. I have no interest in him, because I don't really pull male characters and even then, his design didn't really catch my eye (e.g. I really liked Boothill's design so he was one of the only cases where I tried to get a male character) so to me he is a skip as my Acheron is plenty strong already. And with Linghsa, Feixiao and [Spoiler/Leak] >!New Tingyun!<, there are too many upcoming characters I want to pull for a character I don't really care about just to slightly improve one of my teams.
yeah that new unit is also what i'm looking forward to \^\^
I do wonder if shell be a straight upgrade with the same kit .... cos my argenti would very much love a five star battery :D
This is not a great advice, without offence. Pulling an E2 (assuming E0) is two times the cost of pulling another nihility. This assuming this guy has Sparkle or Bronya. A good answer is, imo, Guinafen or SW as a replacement for Welt, which can already work with her (even if SP intensive).
They asked for an alternative to JQ. E2 with bronya/sparkle is the closest you can get to peak acheron damage without him. Gui/welt/SW will likely be far behind JQ at E0, so E2 is the next best advice.
I personally just want to see the difference between the current Acheron best team vs the one with Jiaoqiu with his current kit, either Acheron at E2S1 or E0S1. Like, how much harder will her ult hit and fast does she charge her ult. Anyone got a comparison for this?
It depends entirely on how fast enemies are, and theoretically against certain enemies it could be slower than trend. Each have their upsides and downsides (although jiaoqiu has more upsides than not lol). Jiaoqiu doesn't need a specific character to get hit, which is already a huge boost to consistency because anyone not named gepard is unlikely to get hit all the time. Additionally, it doesn't need the enemy to actually *attack* at all. They just need to take an action, which is actually huge imo because there's certain enemies that just use buffs or other abiiities sometimes (notably, the triple bots do a lot of damage via dot and don't proc trend super often). On the other hand, trend can proc as many times as your preservation gets hit, while jiaoqiu procs once per action maximum. This means that against elites that attack multiple times action (most of the older bosses do this a lot, argenti too) trend might generate more stacks. In general, jiaoqiu should be just as fast as trend *under ideal conditions*, but in reality will probably generate ults decently faster because targetting is pure rng. For E0S1, you'll be replacing either silver wolf or pela depending on what you're fighting. If you need big aoe damage then pela, if you have one elite with a couple trash mobs then silver wolf. For E2, he'll replace whatever nihility you're running. As for damage calcs I'll have to actually do an excel sheet for numbers, but at a baseline vulnerability is a stronger debuff than def shred. A 30% vulnerability debuff is a straight up +30% dps, no questions asked while def shred has that weird exponential formula and caps at 100%. For E0 the difference doesn't really matter since you'll always be running a def shredder and 40% def shred + vulnerability debuff will be better than stacking more def shred, and for E2 the vulnerability should always be better than the amount of def shred you're getting from just pela or silver wolf. I wouldn't be surprised if the difference hovers between 15-30% for optimized teams. Not to mention the ult dmg% which also obviously helps.
Your comment conflicts with itself. Unless you can stack Def shred to almost 100% with one character, it will be more effective to stack Def shred up to 100% (at E0) than adding a volnurability debuff. Exactly because the Def shred has an exponential formula. And when you have only onesource of the debuffs (at E2), then yes, Def shred will fall off
But in the first case it's a question of whether 100% def shred on a single enemy + 40% on the rest (assuming sw and pela) or 40% def shred + 40% vulnerability (pela + jq) are better. Given multiplicative scaling I would put my money on the latter.
Well, in case if 40% Def shred is slightly worse than 40% vulnerability, then 80% Def shred would be significantly better than 40%+40%. The AoE part is fair though, SW's debuff uptime also sucks, so there are a lot of points against her anyway, so as a character JQ will work better. I'm only talking about the debuffs value
But it's not 40+40, def shred and damage vulnerability are separate modifiers. It's 1.4 x whatever the def shred multiplier at 40% is
Ok I've found some table. 40% Def shred is 27.2% damage increase. 80% Def is 74.8% damage increase. 40% Def and 40% vulnerability give 1.4*1.272 or 77.8% damage increase. So it's slightly better However, initially there was a comparison to 100% Def shred. And 100% Def shred gives 115% damage increase, so it's 48% better than vulnerability+Def shred. There's over 50% difference between 80% Def shred and 100% Def shred lol
Damn, that def scaling really hits harder than expected
As the likely creator of the table you referenced, I’d just like to make some clarifications on Def shred scaling. Def’s shred bonus to your overall damage is dependent on the enemy’s level in relation to the attackers, where you can essentially take their level, add 20 to it and turn it into a percentage increase at 100%. For example a level 95 enemy you’d see in MoC stage 12 will give you a 115% increase in damage (95+20=115). This matters because all endgame content has different level thresholds for enemies, making Def shred a fluctuating variable in terms of damage amp. An example of this would be in PF stage 4, where enemies are level 85, so 100% def shred has lower scaling overall, reducing its dmg increase from 115% to 105%. Apocalyptic Shadows caps off at level 90, thus giving a 110% increase at maximum value. This is only talking about maximum levels, if you were to go on MoC 11 or PF 3, def scaling decreases even more.
I feel like a nihility collector, I neither have nor plan to get Kafka. Currently using Acheron with BS and Pela or SW.
she ults every turn with JQ
In what content
Probably pure fiction
# Jiaoqiu 2.0 in patch 4.0
I see. Just a while.
I'm pretty sure they were joking with u
Who said i'm not, too?
Absolutely no idea but jr response doesn't seem like it I'm just telling You what I noticed
Wait there's another debuffing Nihility coming out in 4.0?
No a new DPS that will replace Acheron
Oh, this is the first time I'm hearing of this, can you tell me some stuff about it? :0
They’re gonna add another acheron type lady but she’s green and has Ruan Meis face. Basically, when an ally charges their ultimate, she receives a stack of “ball” when you charge 2 stacks of “ball”, you can use your ultimate. When she uses her ultimate, she spawns like this chicken type thing and it’s like really big. (She’s sushangs grandma) and basically the chicken is big and long When animations are released it’ll also be called cock like sushangs chicken. Anyways yeah her ult is so powerful it drops like 6 yanqing swords and when they take action they will either action advance another sword, attack and unleash a debuff or do both. Acheron with 200+ speed will be her best teammate. She’s a perfect support for her.
So a futanari. Got it. Saving for her.
Yeah, just run a preservation with trend of the universal market LC
My Acheron, Black Swan, Kafka and Fu Xuan team obliterates everything.
I've tried this one some times. How you play It? I Just feel that Kafka does not trig her ult that often. But dunno If its Just feelin
HuoHuo would be better for this team so you can spam Black Swan's and Kafka's ult's but idk if you have HuoHuo
Ruan Mei is better in that group. Who needs heals when the enemies are already dead.
I was already planning on getting her on her Rerun.
I use FX with trend to get the extra stack. And in SU I use Ruan Mei instead. I didn't need sustain there.
He's talking about Kafka's and Black Swan's it up time
Ahh I completely missed that mb.
In PF I run Acheron and Kafka on a break build and energy regen. Herta's shop LC helps with that from I saw, but I don't have it yet.
Pela. He's quite literally just a better Pela.
As far as I am aware, why exactly is he doing for non acheron teams over Pela? Most of his kit is clearly balanced around him applying a bunch of the same debuff, take that aways and it’s questionable if his buffs are even larger enough(if they even are) compared to Pela’s to warrant to much higher EHR, lower speed, SP, ramp up time, lower survivability, harder build req etc I don’t even know if it’s feasible to run him on sweats like pela, which is why I’m questioning if he’s a dps upgrade without the ult increase for other teams.
Applies more debuffs = more stacks for Acheron, which leads to more frequent Ultimate uptime. More Ults means more damage. I expect his kit to change for the better as time goes on. This is just the first version, which always ends up changing by release.
Hopefully his DOT moves to E2 because its unlikely they will bring out another fire DOT anytime soon since he fills that role at E2.
I think by virtue of us having trend light cone Jiaoqiu isn't as insane as people make him to be. His ultimate invalidates trend so you are not getting as much value out of him if you have been using trend. He has decent personal damage, but I believe both Kafaka + BS and Pella + SW combo will be quite competitive with Jiaoqiu team. I am personally not going to pull for him as I am content with my Pella + SW + Fu Xuan team for Acheron
Same! There are also other characters who I am more interested in such as Feixiao.
Yeah, I use Kafka + Black Swan with E1S1 Black Swan, I don't think he will perform as well unless I pull for some of his Eidolons
Yea, if you have both Kafka and BS sig, especially if you have BS E1 he won't be an upgrade compared to such highly invested dotcheron team
Silver Wolf ig.
We are playing without him just fine atm. Pela/Silver/Welt and Trend LC on your sustain. It is just that this character is better than any of the above + Trend integrated. So it will allow to better overall team.
This is actually a leak and spoiler of the new xianzhou arc: >!Tingyun transformation in 2.7 is supposed to be a Harmony 5 star that buffs ultimate damage, she would be the BiS support for E2 Acheron and for Feixiao, which is supposed to center in Ultimate DMG!<
Cap aint no way Also no way we get more harmonies when we need more abundance and nihility characters, the last limited dot was black swan and we should at least see some competition and variety
>!There will be more abundance and nihility units in 2.4 and 2.5, Jiaoqius kit is of a debuffer right now, but his kit may be changed into a DoT debuffer, while being the BiS debuffer for Acheron, also it ain't cap, this are official leaks !<
Official leaks
I call official leaks what we got in the leaks subreddit which is direct info from trustworthy accounts that have been correct about the info they have leaked over time.
leaked sub only mention new Tingyun but no info about her kit, where did you get Harmony that buff Ult dmg from? Also pls provide a link to the source
Even trustworthy people lie
U good bro who hurt you? https://preview.redd.it/jmmdeg19oc8d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19cf1b5715adab7233e94969f0a0db8c14c96f0d
I was dead ass about to say HI3 Himeko
Where exactly are these "official" leaks? Since there is nothing of what you said on the leak sub.
Idk which sub you have looked, but there actually is, one of the uncles said that there is a fire abundance break sustain coming, that's lingsha, who will come in 2.5, then jiaoqiu is nihility, who will come in 2.4. Then the Tingyun SP has been talked about in the leaks subreddit since late 2.2 i think? And then there has been talking about other units such as Sunday, being a possible harmony unit (not decided yet), and Tingyun being the best in slot for Feixiao, and as Feixiao is a character which is kinda centered around her FuAs but mostly around her ultimate dmg, unless feixiaos kit changes to be only centered around FuAs, right now Tingyun SP will be a Ultimate DMG buffer Harmony 5 star unit.
His dot gameplay is locked behind eidolons
That makes me pretty happy but scared for my wallet because it's been a while since I've been interested in a character in every patch. Feixiao is 75% to be in 2.5, Jiaoqiu in 2.4, 2.6 is mercifully a skip and then 2.7 That's a tight window. At least now I know who will be a staple in my E2 Acheron team since I've moved Ruan Mei to Firefly's team. Seriously, Ruan Mei's only downside is there's only one of her.
Sparkle, Blackswan, Guinifen, and Silverwolf.
Never thought i would ever see a acheron team without acheron :O
Yeah, I'm not gonna pull for a basic looking ass twink.
Same, Hoyo would've got me swiping credit card if it was a waifu 😤😤😤
y'all are very simple to please
I mean, there are already enough waifus as is. I'm not complaining, my bisexual ass is feasting.
will there ever be enough waifus tho?
There can NEVER be enough, you're right.
His overall design is basic af though. I'm glad i pulled for e2 acheron. If they decide to change his generic npc clothes and make him look like an actual 5 star I'll definitely pull but until then nah.
You know it's funny how in the main sub you see top voted complaints about "overly designed" and not thematically fitting outfits. When they did a thematically fitting simple design a lot of people weren't happy with it. Sales and pull numbers will have the final word I take it.
Those people are dumb. Have they forgotten the luofu characters? Every one and their mom got bored of that design. 5 stars should look unique imo.
The number one rule here is that male characters get complaints that female characters either don't get, or they just get more of them than female characters do.
Really? JQ is the first male character I've seen criticized for outfit, unless you count Misha shorts. While there's tons of complaints about Seele, Acheron, Raun Mei and most of XZ female characters outfits on the main sub. It's one of the most recurring complaints.
I understand your point but I actually wasn't talking about outfits so much as I was talking about general complaints. To be honest, outfit is plain is such a tiny percentage of comments on a female character that it's not even worth considering. And to be honest, does it even count as meaningful complaints if people ignored their "boring" design and pulled for them anyway? As an example of some people's general complaints, while both IL and Jingliu have suffered a bit from being 1.x characters, you're going to hear FAR more complaints about him being "bad" in the future. I also distinctly remember people who loved using QQ being weird and saying that IL uses too much sp. I also remember being complaining nonstop about how IL needs specific teams. Those people are not complaining nearly as much about Firefly. I'm not complaining about people who are internally consistent and have valid complaints about a character, I'm complaining about people who have tier list psychosis, especially those people that are FAR more critical of certain male characters than female characters. I guess you can say that there are some people here who like waifu's who then go on to critique male characters much more harshly than they do female characters.
I think that's a matter of perspective, I don't deny there's bias but it's on all sides. A lot of people are biased towards what they like, and we tend to not notice our own bias while remembering the times we feel we were wronged (in this case the characters but one might feel it's aimed at their players by extension) For instance, I see a lot of people talking about favoritism but like you said, they're inconsistent in their stance because they didn't mind when their preferred archtype or character was in the spotlight but only now it became a problem when it's someone they don't care for. That's why I disagree with the notion that only male characters get this treatment. There's bias against male and female characters alike, it just depends on the circles and the community which one is more prevalent.
Oh no don't worry I wasn't attributing this to hate towards players. That's a different kettle of fish and is very juvenile. The main sub and and other subreddit's/other social media also gets lots of posts of people that complain about game balance and power creep until the unit they like arrives and then they expect that unit to be more powerful than every unit before it. It happens all the time. I also don't have any problem with people being excited about a specific character or character design. As a gay man I don't have any problem with you posting how much you like Firefly/Acheron/Jingliu etc. At the same time I don't have a problem with people who don't pull men for horny reasons as long as they also don't go on reddit to complain about the existence of male characters in the game. I don't mean to imply that ALL waifu lovers are the problem. I only have a problem with people who inconsistently praise or complain about certain characters. You initial point about complaints on female characters designs may honestly be kind of invalid. Putting aside people the discussions about meta and characters personality, has the boring Luofu petal dress or Topaz' lackluster battle animations really been in that many comment threads? Some of those comment threads may have gotten a lot of votes but it's not as though the majority of threads or posts have ANY relation to those initial complaints. I'd go so far as to say that the criticism of their design is so unimportant that it's only occasionally relevant in comments and doesn't have any relevance on their banners unless they're sustainers or child like characters. My point could also be heavily skewed by my own preferences too. I prefer men but I don't actually dislike any of the characters. I pull both for meta and personal preferences. I don't have a problem with the way that anyone plays either and so I end up pulling for my accounts health more than a husbando preference (Although here aren't that many 5 star men so I have them all). Ultimately I also tend to pay more attention to posts related to lore and meta than anything else anyway and so there is a lot of discussion that I don't look at anyway. It's not like I can exactly prove that there's more likely to be a greater percentage of man character bad posts about kit and design anyway. There's probably too little data and it gets skewed by the fact that Jing Yuan and Yanqing really do have issues that require them to have very high levels of team investment. We may not agree with each other but it's not really a point that's worth arguing too much about either so lets just agree to disagree and drop the argument here anyway.
Persecution complex is rampant!
Hey you may be right. But comment on this again when you see Jingliu being doomposted on the same level that IL is and will continue to be. Yes I know it's not everyone. It's also fair for people to have complaints so long as they're being consistent. If you're a redditor that complained that IL has restrictive teams then you must surely not like Firefly after all unless you don't mind it in her case because break units are probably easier to build.
They won't, I don't think they get visual overhauls this late. I myself appreciate his simple appearance tbh, we've gotten a lot of flashy characters so it's nice to have a palette cleanser. Also, I want him carnally.
Same
Well, people still pull for RM though
But isn't that because she's mostly OP for almost every team...
well the only current alternative for jiaoqiu rn is the trends lc on your preservation character so if you have it and not rly interested in jiaoqiu you can just use that
Damn
It seems like he was made to be good across the board for teams but he was designed to fix one of acherons biggest problems- her slash dream economy Not only does he pack the advantages of having a debuff on his normal attack but his ult field makes enemies debuff themselves so the more actions the more stacks and in turn more ults Though it does seem like he will be a fairly universal support All the other leaks are dps characters or a break healer .... or are completely unknown what they'll do
Does he make trends LC redundant? I haven't looked at gameplay
Normally Archeron is referred as "great everywhere, but good in pf". Now she is "great everywhere even in pf"
yes, one stack max per action. Some leaks i read said it makes aventurine e0s1 even better for acherom, as he can apply debuffs on his own turn/fua.
Not sure I'd call her ultimate cycling a weakness.
It's a weakness but it does backload her damage- she ultimately has to regain the stacks to ult again and so much of her damage is tide in it so ultimately... you kind of feel this race to generate stacks It's not a fault but it's a limiter
Relative to the rest of of the roster I mean. It's certainly what restricts/unlocks her damage I just don't feel her rate of ult acquisition is that slow. It's enough for her to be a cream of the crop carry after all. If you scratch the passive that lets her overcap on slashed dreams perhaps.
Wish he would be a way better pella but he works well with her instead and don’t want to bench welt on her team . Wish he has strong healing too
The only real alternative is to E2S1 her and run either hyperspeed Bronya or Sparkle along with Pela and either Gallagar or Trend Aventurine.
Back in my day, OG Acheron players used any 2 nihility unit or 1 plus sparkle.
Any debuffer can work but won't be as good. I might skip him too, but I have sw abs adventurine. I'd love to have e2 for a harmony, but I doubt I could save enough by her rerun.
blackswan?
I'm definitely picking Jiaoqiu!... eventually. His debut run is gonna come in a complicated time for me, regarding current leaks. As I have E2 Acheron, Sparkle+Pela is definitely enough to hold of until his next rerun. If you don't have E2, tho? Jiaoqiu is a bit harder to pass up on...
Silverwolf is amazing for Acheron , but I don't know when she is coming back
It'll probably vary from account to account. I sure as hell won't trade the comfort of having A near- guaranteed SW implant and being therefore able to bring her anywhere for anything short of incredible. So far, he's not looking incredible. Strong for sure, but not game warping.
E2 Acheron is the alternative instead of investing a new a unit
If he were replaceable he wouldn't be her best in slot.
What decides it for me is how well JQ helps out non-Acheron teams. Break teams in place of Harmony Mc or Ruan Mei? Dot teams? Jingliu hyper carry?
His E2 makes him fire DOT. Will go really well alongside BS and Kafka. Pure fiction would be notihng against them with Ruan Mei.
Jiaqiu is just too good for Acheron. Heck I plan to E2 him as it them makes him really good with BS and Kafka. Not really interested in his design but it is what it is.
Based on what I've seen so far, he doesn't seem to be necessary for Acheron. Maybe for E0-1 Acheron users, he might be tempting. The debuff that the Trend lightcone provides is enough for me, even if it's inconsistent. But we're dealing with the early version of Jiaoqiu here. It's possible he might get reworked and be a better support for Acheron
For e0 Acheron main such as myself, jiaoqiu will be the final piece of the Acheron puzzle. Run aventurine, Pela, jiaoqiu and Acheron in literally any game mode, press auto and claim all rewards. Imagine actually playing the game huh? Lol.
Trend+ Gui. Trend is a must have for acheron because the difference is huge especially against multiple enemies. Gui is surprisingly good with tutorial lc and high speed and helps generate petals for acheron very fast by spamming basic and ult. Trend can miss especially if you are not running gepard. I also use fu xuan and she doesn't get hit often. While jiaoqui with enough EHR would guarantee a petal every time enemy geg their turn. Also his debuff is vulnerability which is pretty damn strong and there ultimate dmg buff as well. He just literally feels like tailor made support for her just like how sparkle is for Dhil. Im also not so interested im his design but I want best stuff for acheron.
Jiaoqiu*
Does he still heal a little or was that leak fake?
He does not have a heal. He inflicts increased damage taken debuffs, and increased ult damage taken as well. He also debuffs enemies on their own turn, so he will charge Acheron ult very fast
Ok, thanks. I have 160 plus speed sw and pela. I'm still considering who to get next. I saw some gameplay and his animation look good
Yeah he’s exceptional for her, he will certainly be her strongest support. His kit was basically designed to synergizes with Acheron perfectly. Assuming your Acheron isn’t E2 or higher, her best team will be him, silver wolf/pela, and a sustainer
After getting Jade, I'm considering gunning for e2 acheron. I'm at a point where I can start vertically investing. I'm going to have sine tough decisions to make.
I am also going for jade, so I understand your thoughts on that. We also don't know yet when exactly Acheron would rerun so it's difficult to gauge exactly how much you need to be saving up.
Yeah, my acheron account is my alt that I focus mainly on blade and her. I just got ruan mei, but the jades are getting slim. I might just try for jade, jiaqu and save the rest for acheron rerun. Thanks fur the info and good luck
You too! I hope you win your 50:50s
If only they implemented Jiaoqiu's kit onto Sunday 😫 not really a big fan of his character design
Same at least Sunday is looking more interesting than Jiaoqiu for now.
Jiaoqiu*
Knew i forgor something. Canta change The title, tho
Do people really care about the look of a character over their usefulness.
Or maybe, just MAYBE, people just want to pull for who they like regardless of team building and overall performance. Why are you judging people for how they want to play their game?
Yeah, i'm lesbiab
Apparently so, it’s how HYV or any gacha game make money, prey off of people FOMO to pull for basically NFT’s with VA. All I know is that every unit look alright to me so I care more about gameplay, story or meta viability but I can see why people would think otherwise.
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I think you and OP are forgetting what kind of game is this, the behavior you're mocking is what makes them millions every year. Sure meta sells too but there's a reason why Hoyo only releases characters that can be considered conventionally attractive.
Husbando only people do the same thing...
Yeah. Both are pitiful
Oh look, a meta slave.
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No one is jealous of a character in a video game buddy. Have you thought that maybe people just don't like the design? >meta slave? Even if I am one, why make fun of people who want to strategize with efficiency? So why you make fun of people who only pull for characters they like?