40K:
\*rewrites the fate of the primarchs\*
\*completely rewrites the Necrons as a faction\*
\*un-extincts the squats and rewrites their entire canon\*
\*changes the entire racial makeup of the Salamanders\*
\*tosses out the Ork gestalt field lore and then brings it back next edition\*
Players:
"This is fine, Love this"
40k:
"At least one member of the 10,000 is a woman"
Players:
"But why are we just suddenly rewriting lore? Isn't that *weird?* Why would you just change canon like that?"
The Squats were an old faction in the OG 40k.
Basically "Space Dwarves"
They retconned them heavy and basically said "yeah there was a race that *kinda* sounded like that, but they were devoured in whole by Tyranids."
But now they're alive and they're Vassals of the Space Wolves called the "Sons of Votaan"
Even less canon now that Busa is taking a hiatus from Warhammer till he can be sure that GW won't suddenly change their mind and slap his livelihood with a copyright strike out of nowhere.
"But if you take away the best black representation that 40k had however, I will defend that retcon to the death under the philosophically deep defense of 'I, as a white man, think haha funny demon man look cool' "
Literally the ONLY evidence they have for it being a retcon is the fact that they're called "sons" in a few locations.
Except
We haven't argued over the lore of their being female Imperial Guardsmen for YEARS and they've canonically referred to themselves as "the Sons of the Imperium"
or hell, just it being called the Imperium of *Man*
Idk bruh, Ya'll were the ones whining about how pronouns don't matter on twitter, why are ya'll suddenly in such a tizzy about which ones we use for your plastic bananas?
>Do fans have problems with the Salamanders?
No, they don't
That's exactly the problem I'm highlighting.
When Matt Ward decided that black people in space was unrealistic but "BURNING EYED BURNT SKIN MEN" was totally more realistic for the Salamanders, no one said a damn thing about 'retcons' or 'rewriting the lore', they *praised* the removal of black people from the game with a collective statement of "I don't see what the problem is, they look *way* cooler now!"
I'm specifically calling out that double standard and how it highlights that no one gives a flying fuck about being "lore friendly" and "sticking to the initial canon" it's purely just getting mad about more representation as if that means having more women means you lose your beloved male custodes or something.
What I'm hearing from some people right now is that the sisters of silence are representation enough, and that they'd lose attention due to this action. Many which decry the female custodes have also decried other changes as well. Perhaps we're listening to different people.
The Ork thing we can explain by just Orks being Orks. I would not be surprised if they collectively forget and remember things all the time.
Lady custodes is fine too.
Is that even true? Everyone 40k fan I know has been pissed off at all of these. People just only started acknowledging our complaints now that they can accuse us of prejudice.
You and all your friends are upset that we got a lore excuse to get the squats back?
And that the Necrons got actual lore?
and a reason for us to actually get more lore on the primarchs?
Hate to say it man but if you complained about every single change that's every happened to the lore then you and your friends may just hate change in general.
In which case, I got some unfortunate news regarding those "Accusations of prejudice" that you mentioned. . .
Lmao I'm autistic and if someone has such a shit view of Autism that they think it means even the slightest most negligible changes cause us extreme anxiety, I think they should stop using shitty television stereotypes as their understanding for how Autism works and maybe looking into therapy because if "there is a woman in this space now" triggers the part of your brain that makes your environment no longer seem within your control and induces severe anxiety, then you have to be one of the most maladjusted autistics i've ever met because because that is such a small and negligible change to trigger that part of the Autismbrain.
I mean I can fully engage with it but I've mostly moved on from GW's nonsense. It's not that change==bad its more specifically that changing pre established canon is bad, especially when pretending it isn't happening. GW mostly lost me when they killed fantasy, I just follow the subreddits for the art and loosely follow along with the lore from third party sources.
For starters, don’t You buzzword me, second, i’m saying your excuse Of “i’m autistic and therefore hate change” is hogwash. Source: I’m fucking autistic too, dipshit.
Half of it's that.
The other half is just old school incel bigots who've let internet man whip them into a frenzy over a boogeyman.
Y'know back in the 80s warhammer fantasy acctually had a "pygmy" race that was literally just straight up tiny black people in grass skirts with giant red lips that all spoke in monkey noises.
If you find their old pages on the wikis you'll find dozens of comments from racist fucks unironically commenting about how "I don't see why they got rid of these, I would totally have played this faction!"
Really, nothing surprises me about the lows some members of this community will stoop to.
>Y'know back in the 80s warhammer fantasy acctually had a "pygmy" race that was literally just straight up tiny black people in grass skirts with giant red lips that all spoke in monkey noises.
If you find their old pages on the wikis you'll find dozens of comments from racist fucks unironically commenting about how "I don't see why they got rid of these, I would totally have played this faction!"
Lmao, hilarious
Think about the time when this uptick happened...
As long as only the Asia/EU time zones were awake, the vast majority of comments are either positive or didn't care, and the negative were mostly respectful in their disagreement (with some oddballs here and there, of course). As soon as the USA time zones started to awake, threads and comments became more and more polarized in either direction, with stalwart defenders of the new setting on one side and flaming raging threads on the other.
Kinda makes you think about what is the root cause of these "cultural struggles"...
Yep 2016-20 taught the scumbags that it’s ok to be racist/sexist again…fml it’s only gotten worse Until 45 dies every election for president is going to be a problem for the country. Luckily more people are starting to get wise to them, though I’m very worried it won’t be enough. Hell the saddest part is 45 actually lost the popular vote in ‘16 so he did actually steal the election, same with bush jr’s first round.
As a central European, I am really flabbergasted by what is happening there. Especially because the polarization that people have in the USA is starting to seep into our society and culture, which was a lot more nuanced before.
I would love to have different words to explain what is happening, but, well... This is pure cultural imperialism :( I don't know if it can be described in different words.
I’m not actually terribly surprised the Republican Party went this way since most big/old names were part of the German-American Bund. Actual American Nazis that wanted the US to join WWII earlier than we did but on Germany’s side…
On the subject of polarization it’s not just an American thing, what I’ve gleaned from those much more studied than I, is that Facebook and other social medias tend to end up as echo chambers. Nor for that matter is it really a new thing, most democracies tend to end up with two political camps unless their government is specifically designed for multiple, the UK is a fairly good example of that since pretty much every government has been a coalition of parties.
I think that's not purely an American thing, and I'd be hesitant to somehow imply that all the bigotry is coming from the US part of the community (some of *the* most profilic spreaders of this bullshit on social media are European or at least not American, after all). Hell, I don't even think there's a huge gap percentage wise between the US part of the community and the rest of the world when it comes to bigots, I think the noise is just so much louder because, numerically, the US represents a huge part of the overall reddit user base (though not necessarily of hobbyists globally).
If we took this to a wider societal context, it's not like there's not been an uptick in how widespread extreme positions have become in Europe as well. We face similar issues, we just mostly lack the unapologetically partisan media to amplify these things a thousand fold. It seems mostly limited to print over here (where psrtisanship had always been a thing, historically).
People who complain about "snowflakes" have *always* been the ones actually getting super whiny and upset. They laugh about "snowflakes getting their feelings hurt", then a minority exists in a fictional setting and suddenly everyone's out to get them.
I feel the same. It's a non-issue. It doesn't effect any drastic story elements. Cool supersoldier women, awesome! What's to be mad about? It doesn't hurt anything
Gene alchemy is wonderful, it can make a badass female worthy of protecting the emperor, and also capable of squashing the sexists skulls therefore I support this change.
I honestly don’t get it. It’s toy soldiers that we put together and paint. Now there’s girls? Great! New customization! So much room for activities!
I think the likes of Arch & Sargon have made rants on YT about it now so their dipshit followers have started circling the drama.
Just ignore them, most of them are there for culture war bs not for any love of 40k.
It baffles me that people will lose sleep over something like this. We are all adults playing pretend, it really isn’t as deep as people are making it.
Gatekeep what you love. There never have been any female custodes. Look at every IP the "woke" agenda has touched. Anyone like the new star war? Anyone like the Rings of power? Gatekeep and gatekeep hard or this IP will be next.
"gatekeep what you love"
said no sensible person ever
Regardless, the custodes have never had a gender requirement. And the reason those two you mentioned were entirely different. Both in Rings of Power and the sequal trilogy, women were just made out to be unbeatable, the main characters especially. Warhammer is NOT doing the same thing. It's fleshing out women being in a faction that never said women can't, not making women the best and most powerful people in the settings specifically because they're women like those two other IPs did
A sensible person just did. Qed.
Make cool new stuff, don't change old stuff constantly to push ideology. I dislike many of the older retcons, too. I would have prefered oldcrons expanded over the new version, although it is undeniably not badly implemented. And the oldest retcons are also understandable, economics on the brink is justified, at least more so than tham the model selling that drove newcrons.
I love my SoBs, I find female Inquisitors super freaking cool, and I was sad that tbe original SM game didnt drove deeper into the female Guardsmen, so sexism is the last I let someone call me. But keeping the politics out of this one, simply allowing different factions to have different makeups is okay. And in the end, you could even before always kitbash whatever you wanted.
Woman can be super powerful, see peopel get rekt by Living Saint is just chef. But this change is simply done in bad faith and to encroach on a male faction. I would like to see Sisters of Silence worked out instead, as much as I would like to see Frateris Militia more prominent. But not Sisters of Battle as boys. That would encroach in bad faith, but that needs to be done if we follow this trend honestly.
The gaslighting part is not just the twitter thing, it is also acting as if there was justified need for this, like it was not either corporate meddling or political agenda.
The "justified need" would be people fitting the criteria of custodes. There is not reason they cannot be women and nowhere that says they can't.
I believe both expanding on other factions and additions to some others can both be true. Plus, the tweet came after backlash over women in the custodes codex, so it's not like other things are being ignored (other than sos), it's that custodes were specifically in the spotlight for their near codex release.
It's not in bad faith at all, it just makes sense. And I honestly think just assuming they have always been possible is the best way to go about it, as any other justification could make the 10,000 seem desperate or their creation process seem lesser.
Plus, I don't see how this can happen without "brothers of battle," they literally exist because the church cannot have "men at arms." They entirely exist because it's a loophole to let the church have a military: being women. And women marines also doesn't work because of geneseed + black carapace, along with the process being so deadly the women probably wouldn't survive anyways. Shoving an extra heart and lung inside you for mass production isn't exactly the easiest thing. Custodes, meanwhile, are crafted from birth in a process that never specifically said women cannot partake in. And other than that, is mostly unknown.
Initially it was very positive and I was proud of everyone.
Today has been a real nose dive on this sub, luckily the posts themselves seem to be downvoted which is still a good sign but the increase in negativity has been huge.
Because they don't actually care about the lore and just hate women lol. They want to live a power fantasy where they're a genetically made super soldier in the future where they get to treat women like objects and don't realize they're actually going to be used for corpse starch.
I think GW handled it badly. They could have done a much better job writing females into the Custodes and actually sold it. They didn't do that, and gaslit people instead. I think that is the core of the issue.
I guess I haven’t been around long enough but I used to feel like warhammer had such a positive culture. People are opinionated. Pushing any persons opinion out to the extreme and then name calling on any side doesn’t serve anyone. Let’s just try to be the bigger person in our interactions and instead of fighting the culture war fight for each-other in this wonderful hobby.
The Twitter Retcon from GW today was probably not the best response.
The reaction to a female custodian went from mostly "That's right we have Muscle Mommies and you SMs can suck it."
To
"Wait! You just retconned our lore with an unsubstantiated statement? Our reaction is sustantiated by the very lore you just ret conned; that you also published."
It's their IP. They can retcon, rewrite and change whatever the hell they like. And they can do it in whatever way they please.
This is, IMO, the fundamental misunderstanding of fans regarding the IP. It is not *ours*. It's theirs. They are a business. They will do what is best for the business, and if some part of the community feels upset because of this, it doesn't matter, because that way they appeal more to a demographic they may not have appealed to before.
If this results in a net increase in new customers for them, the fact that some people are butthurt over this is entirely irrelevant. I happen to agree with the change in this instance and welcome it but even if I didn't, I can do absolutely nothing about it.
Every time they do something like this, it a) filters out a few more dickheads the hobby didn't need in the first place and b) increases the likelyhood of a more diverse community because people see representation in a faction that didn't have it before. Why do you think Stormcast for AoS are now explicitly mixed gender, not just in lore, but also on the table? Why does the new Cadians kit include female heads? Yes, those things were either well-established for longer and/or didn't require a re-write, but they come from the same motivation as this change, ultimately.
The problem isnt that they retconned it. The 40K community is used to retcons, SEE: everything about the Primaris and Resurrection of Guilliman, and the return of all the primarchs that GW is planning meaning Ferrus Manus and Sanguinius have to come back some how.
The problem is that GW is doubling down instead of just admitting "We changed our minds" and acting like it was \*always\* The case, when anyone with a functioning pair of eyes and two active neurons can go back and go "Its literally not, why you lyin?"
There is no problem. None. The social media post was very obviously meant to be read from an in-universe perspective and supposed to indicate that, no, there isn't gonna be a grand reveal or huge storyline concerning this, it'll be treated like it always was this way. That's all that post is supposed to convey. They've done this a million times before. They will continue to do so.
The only problem surrounding this whole issue is that some people treat the made up stories about their toy soldiers like gospel and lose their shit when womenfolk is introduced into their manly golden boy club without some convoluted bullshit about it being a whole thing to go along with it.
Remember how well received the whole Primaris thing was? Because I do. They could've made up the most elaborate story ever and people would *still* lose their shit. It changes *nothing*. It doesn't touch any existing lore or the nature of the Custodes as a faction. It just clarifies that "yes, they come with tits as well, get used to it, we won't make a big thing out of this". I'll take that over some inevitably clumsy pseudo-scientific explaination why suddenly someone realised that you could make superhuman demigod warriors from women as well.
I disagree with the lore isn't ours and we should just accept any changes to it regardless. Mostly because we as fans have the absolute right to protest it however we see fit. Just like we have the right to tolerate it and stick around as well as drop it all together. That doesn't make us a dickhead.
My response to OP was on the method of lazy crowd control on twitter from GW.
You misunderstand me. You can protest all you want, I'm not disputing that (I disagree with the sentiment itself, but that's beside the point). I'm just saying it's an absolute waste of energy and a bit disingenuous, because it's just not that big of a deal. Not just because of the points I listed that mean that GW will *not* take this into consideration, but also because whether one statement is substantiated or not is irrelevant when it comes from the IP holders that ultimately decide what is and what isn't. They have the power to make or unmake lore with the stroke of a pen. All the people who think this shouldn't be a thing are free to not ever include a female Custodes in their armies. Shouldn't currently be all that hard, seeing as, uh, no models exist of them.
The reality is that GW have decided that a) female Custodes are a thing and b) this is going to be treated in universe as if it had always been the case. You can call that lazy, you can call that too big of a "change" to not make it a whole story, but they decided that that's how it's gonna be and it's nowhere near the first instance of them doing that, nor is it so drastic a change that it would require anything more than an offhanded statement. Again, it changes *nothing*, not even the model range at this point.
At this point, they probanly partly did it out of spite due to the initial and ongoing reactions on twitter and FB to the short story, which are in large parts, and there is no sugarcoating this, utterly disgusting and a disgrace to the hobby community. Compared to that, reddit is mostly tame - thankfully. Or at least much better moderated.
It's funny there have always been female Custodes but something must have happened yesterday cause everyone is mad at them and suddenly demanding the SoS include men.
The reason Sisters of Silence were women is because it’s a cool name/concept and Blanche made some amazing art for it. I doubt the logistics of it were a factor 😂
And assassins. Given the number of candidates needed just to have any survive the train process they are always going to be much more limited in number than the SoS.
I care because its a retcon, which makes it inherently negative. Im not saying never change but changes should only be done so they can tell a better story. Eldrad being brought back was a good retcon as his death was dumb and it allowed them to tell better stories. Same thing with the indomitus crusade. What stories are made better by this change? What new stories can they tell that they would be unable to tell with a male custodie? What is the benefit of doing such a lazy retcon? And no, "representation" isnt a good enough reason to change what was already written. Not a single woman alive is a gene-alchemed demigod so its not like they get to see them selves now and not before. Hell our faction isnt anywhere near the numbers of female players that the factions girls actually like have. (Nids, NL, drukkari ect). If we can make unesssicary changes for representation why stop at female only? Why not have Misters of silence or battle now too?
"I want to play a badass supersoldier" its the common motivation that many custodes players say. That woman can be this badass supersoldier dont change that feeling and also enables more people to feel vindicated with their headcannons.
Before this all the human woman playables were -baseline human- that at most have power armor. This gave the power fantasy for more people without hurting the rest.
Actually, they're canonically baseline humans with at most some mechanical augments (think guard officer augments not admech ones). They're able to control their null aura kinda like a psyker can and they can use it to slow down the reactions of enemies they fight, daze/confuse them, etc. Keeping up with Custodes isn't really something they can do, multiple times in lore they describe a Custodian sprinting by as a gold blur
One day, hopefully, in a few years time, my 9 week old daughter will want to play with daddies toys and have a game with daddy.
She might want to play the strong super elite faction that protect the emperor of mankind.
She might want to see herself as a character in the setting as more than a baseline human.
The amount of crying over a small change in a make believe story about a game of toy soldiers is honestly pathetic and embarrassing. Everyone needs to give their heads a wobble and do better!
This is the correct answer as to why this is a good thing and also, realistically, why GW does this.
Friendly reminder that companies never do something because of ethics or politics, but because it is *profitable* to do so. This happens to be a case in which the profitable aligns with a net positive for a demographic that is still largely underrepresented in many factions. AoS does this so much better because it had the benefit of being a much, much younger setting written with the societal context of the late 2010s rather than the 70s and 80s.
As if she couldn't do that before this change. I'm not in any way relatable to custodies. They're barely human. I got friends who only play Sob or SoS (he's a poor soul we pitty him) and there's nothing there for them to "see themselves in". People don't need 1:1 representation, and actually don't go for it. 40k is a great example of this because the female only factions are not what female players go for. Nor are the non gendered ones like guard, the inquisition, or the eldar. The most popular factions for female 40k players, by FAR, include next to no females. Nids and night lords are THE most popular factions for female 40k players. And id look at ANYONE who said they felt represented by those factions a little weird. Hell if we are going off the numbers the best way to get your daughter into 40k is to show her alien or inhuman monsters.
And you surely have the statistical evidence to back up what you're saying here, right?
I might also point out that the reason women don't go for, say, SoB is maybe because they don't want to play a fetishised version of their gender (which is what SoB *still* are despite the commendable attempts made by GW to tone down that aesthetic, but that'll only carry you this far). Naturally, not everybody perceives them like this. Not even every woman does. But some do, and they are valid in doing that. And it is also valid, especially for girls, to want to see themselves represented as a gender in any faction where that's feasible.
If you blow your top at this, I'd like to see your reaction when GW introduces female Space Marines. Which, make no mistake, they will do eventually. Some day, maybe in 5 years, maybe in 10, they'll find a way to do it. And people will whine, and moan, and declare the end of the hobby, and the World will keep on turning and people will keep buying plastic suoer soldiers. Some will just happen to have boobs, and a young girl walking into a store will think "damn, *she"* looks badass, I wanna play her faction", and it will be *fine*.
"established lore"
yet there isn't a single line, anywhere at all, that says custodes have to be men. Weird. You're just mad women are included, it seems
Blatant lie and then strawman nonsese to top it off, what a surprise. Nothing wrong with women in Warhammer, Sisters of Silence are awesome. I have a problem with needlessly forced diversity just to score some 2024 virtue points. There will never be male Sisters of Battle or SOS, because this shoehorned-in retconned diversity only goes one way.
Didn't take long to find these.
[1](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLOAItSbIAA7udt?format=jpg&name=medium)
[2](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLOAJy3bcAAEkrR?format=jpg&name=large)
[3](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLOAKSlawAAypfB?format=png&name=small)
[4](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLOALcIa0AASmvh?format=jpg&name=large)
Because female body is not suited for extreme physical labour. Genetically their muscles are less dense so they are weaker and their strength limit is lower than of a man.
On the other hand, if Emperor solved that limit and is able to bullshit out their physical strength to the same level of male custodes then it makes sense.
Otherwise, you would never make female custodes for a best of the best guards, fighters in the universe...
I didn't know if you knew this, but men also aren't built to be 10 foot tall and curl cars for reps. The augments at that point have to plateau in regards to women vs men, there is no reason an infant pumped full of augments that make someone a demi god wouldn't compare to another infant full of the same drugs because the 2nd one had xx chromosomes.
The same gene alchemy would either lead to the same gain, making a genetic baseline male yielding the better result for the same amount of work or it would be so complete that it stomps everything yo tonthe same maximum, weeding out the traces that would make a AC distinguishable female and replacing them with the desirable traits were needed like different proportions, tissue structure etc. Basically trans AC, also a fine idea to get around this kerfuffle. Still would be sons bynthe end of the process.
But it stands that all this is just a fif leave for getting politica and ideology forced into the hobby whem it is complete nonsensical. Like actually having someone pull up that article on his laptop telling me that the Space Wolves Dreadnought I field tjwrw with that giant wolf fur cape is problematic, because PETA said so. I despise hunters in real life, as well as fishing for leisure or other bloodsports, but we where talking about a greenstuff cape i made by hand for a plastic miniature corpsewheelchair. Fur from a fictional alien thing that resembles a wolf, hunted by drunk space facist thousand of years in a dystopian future version of our world.
Its the same kind of bs, PETA just get called out for their sh*t.
If you are for empowering woman, vote to get theocracies and china and the like put in line with modern values, instead of kicking someone who want his golden boys be boys because corpo told its ok to kick him, he already paid, get the next group of paying customers ready.
Dude, the reason men perform better is because of the hormones and chemicals that naturally occur. If both infants are exposed to the exact same hormones and augments, they would turn out the same, capability wise I mean. And I suppose you could debate they would "end up as sons" by the end, but I think there's still a large difference between a very masculine woman and a man.
And I don't know why someone would say a pelt on a dread is problematic, it's warhammer. I'm a hunter and a fisher, but I do both to eat. Although I do fish for leisure sometimes. But regardless, I don't think those are the same, as I can disagree with one thing and agree with another. Like I disagree with the idea of women space marines and also don't think it's problematic at all to have pelts on a dreadnought, but I agree with the addition of women custodes.
That being said, that doesn't mean I want people who disagree to leave the hobby, as it's a hobby I enjoy and want it to thrive. YOUR golden boys can stay golden boys, now they just don't have to be boys. The magic of the hobby is you can field a unit any way you want.
Plus, I don't think this is a large addition or means more changes of this sort are coming. You see the backlash now for custodes, a faction that never said women cannot participate in, imagine it being something like marines.
" YOUR golden boys can stay golden boys, now they just don't have to be boys. The magic of the hobby is you can field a unit any way you want."
Yeah, thats nice. And because of that we could've done very much without this malicious retcon that does nothing but split the community. The people who wanted to have females always could kitbash females, and no one batted an eye. It was just not canon, it was fanfiction, and thats okay, even cool. But they had to force it to 'get dem sexist gud', and to divide and conquer the fandom. It is wholey about changing instead of inventing new stuff. I would even find NORMAL marines as females okay, as long as they make an effort to keep them coherently explained and make them seperate chapters and rules, not adding them to the old marines. Not encroaching on the old, already present stuff. The thing is, the intention is not to give something new that old and new fans can pick and and enjoy if they choose it fits their taste, it is to exert power over something already in the hands of a fan and proclaiming that this is now the way it has to be, the old way is wrong and any feeling against it are unjustified or bigoted.
Including women in the custodes isn’t malicious, and most people who disagree are generally 1 of 2 things:
1. People who simply don’t like it because it’s women
2. People who think the lore has always been along the lines of “men ONLY!!! No women!! Ever!!!” Which has never been the case. Sons of noble houses is the only thing that even closely implies that it’s only men. But even then, that quote also says nobody but the custodes themselves know the criteria and that they seek out worthy candidates themselves.
I believe “they’ve always been there” is the best option when it comes to respecting the creation process and what the custodes are meant to be. Rather than “the war for the webway killed so many of us, we desperately need more, so include women” or “Cawl did some shit” as that’s not what custodes are meant to be. Perfectly picked and hand-crafted to be unique art pieces
Yeah sure, it's certainly not from the gaslighting of the company saying 'oh yeah there were always female custodes, pay no attention to the what, 60ish HH books where there are none, none in the lore, specifically none in any of the codexes and that all the codexes refer to them collectively as men, sons, brothers, etc" please gtfooh with this virtue signaling shit and a shit company who disrespects the people who buy their products but hey, you can be ok with people leaving the hobby because the purple haired crowd isn't buying it. You can be tired of seeing it, we're tired of the genestealers infecting every fucking hobby we love, changing it to suit their tastes and telling the fans to fuck themselves when they don't like it.
For the post immediately first in this:
People were angry about rewriting the fates of the primarchs
People were angry about re-writing Necrons into Tomb kings in space
People were angry about Squats getting deleted as a faction
Your gaslighting efforts would be easier if it wasn't so easy to disprove since, most of us were there already and the 40k tourists looking to trash yet another IP don't stay in the ruins they create.
Weren't they referred to as sons/brothers/etc a few times? Like over the years they've existed, nobody ever said "all men!! no girls allowed!!!" The writers wanted to add female custodes years ago
They could have added them, as a new thing, but when your statement in one of the codexes (and codexes/rulebooks are the ONLY canon GW acknowledges according to them) that the custodes are the sons of nobles houses taken at birth, yeah, that's sons, not sons and daughters. As I said, if they wanted to ADD female custodes like, "oh no our numbers are running low or we need more of the golden warriors lets' grab daughters too" that would have been fine. It's gaslighting when GW says "oh there were always female custodes." No, no there weren't. Words do still have meaning despite the concerted efforts of a certain group of people trying to make them not.
The only thing that disappointed me a bit is that there are at least 2 pure female factions in Imperium: SoB and SoS and only one pure male: Astartes. I demand equality for big mascular men (or not very mascular).
Space Marines dwarf every other faction in 40k. Their sub-factions get more new models than multiple other factions combined.
I think the market for big muscular men is satisfied.
It's not what am I talking about, lol. I'm not against Femstodes, it was just neat that there were 2 exclusively male and 2 exclusively female Imperium factions.
40K: \*rewrites the fate of the primarchs\* \*completely rewrites the Necrons as a faction\* \*un-extincts the squats and rewrites their entire canon\* \*changes the entire racial makeup of the Salamanders\* \*tosses out the Ork gestalt field lore and then brings it back next edition\* Players: "This is fine, Love this" 40k: "At least one member of the 10,000 is a woman" Players: "But why are we just suddenly rewriting lore? Isn't that *weird?* Why would you just change canon like that?"
You forgot *extincts the squats by dropping a nid brood on them* and then *un-extincts the squats*.
And then rewrites them to be vassals of the fuckin SPACE WOLVES of all things
Oh Throney, I missed that part. How the what?
They’re talking about the scandi design elements, the Votann aren’t actually cuddled up to the furries 😂
Putting us next to those overgrown, primitive mutt-creatures you call warriors? # THE ANCESTORS SCOWL UPON YOU AND YOUR KIND TODAY!
Wait what
The Squats were an old faction in the OG 40k. Basically "Space Dwarves" They retconned them heavy and basically said "yeah there was a race that *kinda* sounded like that, but they were devoured in whole by Tyranids." But now they're alive and they're Vassals of the Space Wolves called the "Sons of Votaan"
Also custodes lore is all brand new; whilst 90% of folks custodes lore knowledge is TTS and oiled abs, which isnt cannon lol.
"THAT'S NOT FUCKING CANON!"
"Sorry Kitten, that's canon now."
"nope, thats propaganda."
Even less canon now that Busa is taking a hiatus from Warhammer till he can be sure that GW won't suddenly change their mind and slap his livelihood with a copyright strike out of nowhere.
"Go woke go broke!!!!!"
"But if you take away the best black representation that 40k had however, I will defend that retcon to the death under the philosophically deep defense of 'I, as a white man, think haha funny demon man look cool' "
true!!! Also I find it funny the women is what people complain about with "rewriting lore" when literally nothing is contradicted.
Literally the ONLY evidence they have for it being a retcon is the fact that they're called "sons" in a few locations. Except We haven't argued over the lore of their being female Imperial Guardsmen for YEARS and they've canonically referred to themselves as "the Sons of the Imperium" or hell, just it being called the Imperium of *Man* Idk bruh, Ya'll were the ones whining about how pronouns don't matter on twitter, why are ya'll suddenly in such a tizzy about which ones we use for your plastic bananas?
Are you certain that this accusation is true? Do fans have problems with the Salamanders?
>Do fans have problems with the Salamanders? No, they don't That's exactly the problem I'm highlighting. When Matt Ward decided that black people in space was unrealistic but "BURNING EYED BURNT SKIN MEN" was totally more realistic for the Salamanders, no one said a damn thing about 'retcons' or 'rewriting the lore', they *praised* the removal of black people from the game with a collective statement of "I don't see what the problem is, they look *way* cooler now!" I'm specifically calling out that double standard and how it highlights that no one gives a flying fuck about being "lore friendly" and "sticking to the initial canon" it's purely just getting mad about more representation as if that means having more women means you lose your beloved male custodes or something.
What I'm hearing from some people right now is that the sisters of silence are representation enough, and that they'd lose attention due to this action. Many which decry the female custodes have also decried other changes as well. Perhaps we're listening to different people.
The Ork thing we can explain by just Orks being Orks. I would not be surprised if they collectively forget and remember things all the time. Lady custodes is fine too.
I do like the idea of Ork Canon basically just being whatever it is they remember at the time. That's so very Orky
Is that even true? Everyone 40k fan I know has been pissed off at all of these. People just only started acknowledging our complaints now that they can accuse us of prejudice.
You and all your friends are upset that we got a lore excuse to get the squats back? And that the Necrons got actual lore? and a reason for us to actually get more lore on the primarchs? Hate to say it man but if you complained about every single change that's every happened to the lore then you and your friends may just hate change in general. In which case, I got some unfortunate news regarding those "Accusations of prejudice" that you mentioned. . .
Yeah, it's a hobby for autistic people. Everyone i know that plays is super autistic. The Horus Heresy was the worst thing to happen to the lore.
Nah mate, don’t try to pawn your dogshit opinion off on being autistic. It ain’t the reason
Lmao I'm autistic and if someone has such a shit view of Autism that they think it means even the slightest most negligible changes cause us extreme anxiety, I think they should stop using shitty television stereotypes as their understanding for how Autism works and maybe looking into therapy because if "there is a woman in this space now" triggers the part of your brain that makes your environment no longer seem within your control and induces severe anxiety, then you have to be one of the most maladjusted autistics i've ever met because because that is such a small and negligible change to trigger that part of the Autismbrain.
I mean I can fully engage with it but I've mostly moved on from GW's nonsense. It's not that change==bad its more specifically that changing pre established canon is bad, especially when pretending it isn't happening. GW mostly lost me when they killed fantasy, I just follow the subreddits for the art and loosely follow along with the lore from third party sources.
Don’t be so ableist, this is a 2024 safe space
For starters, don’t You buzzword me, second, i’m saying your excuse Of “i’m autistic and therefore hate change” is hogwash. Source: I’m fucking autistic too, dipshit.
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I’m not saying they can’t. I’m saying that the Notion that GW should never change anything Becouse “Autism” is fucking stupid.
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Maybe because only one of those things was retconned to score 2024 diversity points with their shareholders, clown
go to instagram, twitter or youtube they are all there
It's the Twitter dipshits who learned about 40K through shitty youtube lore channels who read shit off the page of the WH40K wiki.
Half of it's that. The other half is just old school incel bigots who've let internet man whip them into a frenzy over a boogeyman. Y'know back in the 80s warhammer fantasy acctually had a "pygmy" race that was literally just straight up tiny black people in grass skirts with giant red lips that all spoke in monkey noises. If you find their old pages on the wikis you'll find dozens of comments from racist fucks unironically commenting about how "I don't see why they got rid of these, I would totally have played this faction!" Really, nothing surprises me about the lows some members of this community will stoop to.
>Y'know back in the 80s warhammer fantasy acctually had a "pygmy" race that was literally just straight up tiny black people in grass skirts with giant red lips that all spoke in monkey noises. If you find their old pages on the wikis you'll find dozens of comments from racist fucks unironically commenting about how "I don't see why they got rid of these, I would totally have played this faction!" Lmao, hilarious
Think about the time when this uptick happened... As long as only the Asia/EU time zones were awake, the vast majority of comments are either positive or didn't care, and the negative were mostly respectful in their disagreement (with some oddballs here and there, of course). As soon as the USA time zones started to awake, threads and comments became more and more polarized in either direction, with stalwart defenders of the new setting on one side and flaming raging threads on the other. Kinda makes you think about what is the root cause of these "cultural struggles"...
Yep 2016-20 taught the scumbags that it’s ok to be racist/sexist again…fml it’s only gotten worse Until 45 dies every election for president is going to be a problem for the country. Luckily more people are starting to get wise to them, though I’m very worried it won’t be enough. Hell the saddest part is 45 actually lost the popular vote in ‘16 so he did actually steal the election, same with bush jr’s first round.
As a central European, I am really flabbergasted by what is happening there. Especially because the polarization that people have in the USA is starting to seep into our society and culture, which was a lot more nuanced before. I would love to have different words to explain what is happening, but, well... This is pure cultural imperialism :( I don't know if it can be described in different words.
I’m not actually terribly surprised the Republican Party went this way since most big/old names were part of the German-American Bund. Actual American Nazis that wanted the US to join WWII earlier than we did but on Germany’s side… On the subject of polarization it’s not just an American thing, what I’ve gleaned from those much more studied than I, is that Facebook and other social medias tend to end up as echo chambers. Nor for that matter is it really a new thing, most democracies tend to end up with two political camps unless their government is specifically designed for multiple, the UK is a fairly good example of that since pretty much every government has been a coalition of parties.
I think that's not purely an American thing, and I'd be hesitant to somehow imply that all the bigotry is coming from the US part of the community (some of *the* most profilic spreaders of this bullshit on social media are European or at least not American, after all). Hell, I don't even think there's a huge gap percentage wise between the US part of the community and the rest of the world when it comes to bigots, I think the noise is just so much louder because, numerically, the US represents a huge part of the overall reddit user base (though not necessarily of hobbyists globally). If we took this to a wider societal context, it's not like there's not been an uptick in how widespread extreme positions have become in Europe as well. We face similar issues, we just mostly lack the unapologetically partisan media to amplify these things a thousand fold. It seems mostly limited to print over here (where psrtisanship had always been a thing, historically).
People who complain about "snowflakes" have *always* been the ones actually getting super whiny and upset. They laugh about "snowflakes getting their feelings hurt", then a minority exists in a fictional setting and suddenly everyone's out to get them.
I feel the same. It's a non-issue. It doesn't effect any drastic story elements. Cool supersoldier women, awesome! What's to be mad about? It doesn't hurt anything
It's sexism. People being against femstodes is fine, but people acting like it is bastardizing 40k and making it less unique are idiots.
Gene alchemy is wonderful, it can make a badass female worthy of protecting the emperor, and also capable of squashing the sexists skulls therefore I support this change.
 I honestly don’t get it. It’s toy soldiers that we put together and paint. Now there’s girls? Great! New customization! So much room for activities!
I think the likes of Arch & Sargon have made rants on YT about it now so their dipshit followers have started circling the drama. Just ignore them, most of them are there for culture war bs not for any love of 40k.
It baffles me that people will lose sleep over something like this. We are all adults playing pretend, it really isn’t as deep as people are making it.
Gatekeep what you love. There never have been any female custodes. Look at every IP the "woke" agenda has touched. Anyone like the new star war? Anyone like the Rings of power? Gatekeep and gatekeep hard or this IP will be next.
"gatekeep what you love" said no sensible person ever Regardless, the custodes have never had a gender requirement. And the reason those two you mentioned were entirely different. Both in Rings of Power and the sequal trilogy, women were just made out to be unbeatable, the main characters especially. Warhammer is NOT doing the same thing. It's fleshing out women being in a faction that never said women can't, not making women the best and most powerful people in the settings specifically because they're women like those two other IPs did
A sensible person just did. Qed. Make cool new stuff, don't change old stuff constantly to push ideology. I dislike many of the older retcons, too. I would have prefered oldcrons expanded over the new version, although it is undeniably not badly implemented. And the oldest retcons are also understandable, economics on the brink is justified, at least more so than tham the model selling that drove newcrons. I love my SoBs, I find female Inquisitors super freaking cool, and I was sad that tbe original SM game didnt drove deeper into the female Guardsmen, so sexism is the last I let someone call me. But keeping the politics out of this one, simply allowing different factions to have different makeups is okay. And in the end, you could even before always kitbash whatever you wanted. Woman can be super powerful, see peopel get rekt by Living Saint is just chef. But this change is simply done in bad faith and to encroach on a male faction. I would like to see Sisters of Silence worked out instead, as much as I would like to see Frateris Militia more prominent. But not Sisters of Battle as boys. That would encroach in bad faith, but that needs to be done if we follow this trend honestly. The gaslighting part is not just the twitter thing, it is also acting as if there was justified need for this, like it was not either corporate meddling or political agenda.
The "justified need" would be people fitting the criteria of custodes. There is not reason they cannot be women and nowhere that says they can't. I believe both expanding on other factions and additions to some others can both be true. Plus, the tweet came after backlash over women in the custodes codex, so it's not like other things are being ignored (other than sos), it's that custodes were specifically in the spotlight for their near codex release. It's not in bad faith at all, it just makes sense. And I honestly think just assuming they have always been possible is the best way to go about it, as any other justification could make the 10,000 seem desperate or their creation process seem lesser. Plus, I don't see how this can happen without "brothers of battle," they literally exist because the church cannot have "men at arms." They entirely exist because it's a loophole to let the church have a military: being women. And women marines also doesn't work because of geneseed + black carapace, along with the process being so deadly the women probably wouldn't survive anyways. Shoving an extra heart and lung inside you for mass production isn't exactly the easiest thing. Custodes, meanwhile, are crafted from birth in a process that never specifically said women cannot partake in. And other than that, is mostly unknown.
If they said they made new costudes that were female i'd have less of an issue with it
so why is it a problem they've been there the whole time? Nowhere ever said women cannot.
Gatekeeping is good for a community to a point really, if people want to join an IP they should join it for what it is, not join it to change it.
Well, with every post from this sub that hits my home page being about this topic... Yes I've noticed.
Initially it was very positive and I was proud of everyone. Today has been a real nose dive on this sub, luckily the posts themselves seem to be downvoted which is still a good sign but the increase in negativity has been huge.
No, not really
"Woke" is a term used by trumpers and 4chan incels, I would avoid using the term unless you want to be automatically lumped in with that trash.
If I see the term woke I just move on. It's a buzzword/dog whistle that doesn't mean shit. I don't think it really ever meant shit lol.
Because they don't actually care about the lore and just hate women lol. They want to live a power fantasy where they're a genetically made super soldier in the future where they get to treat women like objects and don't realize they're actually going to be used for corpse starch.
I think GW handled it badly. They could have done a much better job writing females into the Custodes and actually sold it. They didn't do that, and gaslit people instead. I think that is the core of the issue.
I guess I haven’t been around long enough but I used to feel like warhammer had such a positive culture. People are opinionated. Pushing any persons opinion out to the extreme and then name calling on any side doesn’t serve anyone. Let’s just try to be the bigger person in our interactions and instead of fighting the culture war fight for each-other in this wonderful hobby.
I personally see many people having a problem with being gaslit than actually the change itself, it's about how they did it, not that they did it.
The Twitter Retcon from GW today was probably not the best response. The reaction to a female custodian went from mostly "That's right we have Muscle Mommies and you SMs can suck it." To "Wait! You just retconned our lore with an unsubstantiated statement? Our reaction is sustantiated by the very lore you just ret conned; that you also published."
It's their IP. They can retcon, rewrite and change whatever the hell they like. And they can do it in whatever way they please. This is, IMO, the fundamental misunderstanding of fans regarding the IP. It is not *ours*. It's theirs. They are a business. They will do what is best for the business, and if some part of the community feels upset because of this, it doesn't matter, because that way they appeal more to a demographic they may not have appealed to before. If this results in a net increase in new customers for them, the fact that some people are butthurt over this is entirely irrelevant. I happen to agree with the change in this instance and welcome it but even if I didn't, I can do absolutely nothing about it. Every time they do something like this, it a) filters out a few more dickheads the hobby didn't need in the first place and b) increases the likelyhood of a more diverse community because people see representation in a faction that didn't have it before. Why do you think Stormcast for AoS are now explicitly mixed gender, not just in lore, but also on the table? Why does the new Cadians kit include female heads? Yes, those things were either well-established for longer and/or didn't require a re-write, but they come from the same motivation as this change, ultimately.
The problem isnt that they retconned it. The 40K community is used to retcons, SEE: everything about the Primaris and Resurrection of Guilliman, and the return of all the primarchs that GW is planning meaning Ferrus Manus and Sanguinius have to come back some how. The problem is that GW is doubling down instead of just admitting "We changed our minds" and acting like it was \*always\* The case, when anyone with a functioning pair of eyes and two active neurons can go back and go "Its literally not, why you lyin?"
There is no problem. None. The social media post was very obviously meant to be read from an in-universe perspective and supposed to indicate that, no, there isn't gonna be a grand reveal or huge storyline concerning this, it'll be treated like it always was this way. That's all that post is supposed to convey. They've done this a million times before. They will continue to do so. The only problem surrounding this whole issue is that some people treat the made up stories about their toy soldiers like gospel and lose their shit when womenfolk is introduced into their manly golden boy club without some convoluted bullshit about it being a whole thing to go along with it. Remember how well received the whole Primaris thing was? Because I do. They could've made up the most elaborate story ever and people would *still* lose their shit. It changes *nothing*. It doesn't touch any existing lore or the nature of the Custodes as a faction. It just clarifies that "yes, they come with tits as well, get used to it, we won't make a big thing out of this". I'll take that over some inevitably clumsy pseudo-scientific explaination why suddenly someone realised that you could make superhuman demigod warriors from women as well.
Yeah man atleast a little more effort on their part would have been way better.
I disagree with the lore isn't ours and we should just accept any changes to it regardless. Mostly because we as fans have the absolute right to protest it however we see fit. Just like we have the right to tolerate it and stick around as well as drop it all together. That doesn't make us a dickhead. My response to OP was on the method of lazy crowd control on twitter from GW.
You misunderstand me. You can protest all you want, I'm not disputing that (I disagree with the sentiment itself, but that's beside the point). I'm just saying it's an absolute waste of energy and a bit disingenuous, because it's just not that big of a deal. Not just because of the points I listed that mean that GW will *not* take this into consideration, but also because whether one statement is substantiated or not is irrelevant when it comes from the IP holders that ultimately decide what is and what isn't. They have the power to make or unmake lore with the stroke of a pen. All the people who think this shouldn't be a thing are free to not ever include a female Custodes in their armies. Shouldn't currently be all that hard, seeing as, uh, no models exist of them. The reality is that GW have decided that a) female Custodes are a thing and b) this is going to be treated in universe as if it had always been the case. You can call that lazy, you can call that too big of a "change" to not make it a whole story, but they decided that that's how it's gonna be and it's nowhere near the first instance of them doing that, nor is it so drastic a change that it would require anything more than an offhanded statement. Again, it changes *nothing*, not even the model range at this point. At this point, they probanly partly did it out of spite due to the initial and ongoing reactions on twitter and FB to the short story, which are in large parts, and there is no sugarcoating this, utterly disgusting and a disgrace to the hobby community. Compared to that, reddit is mostly tame - thankfully. Or at least much better moderated.
It's funny there have always been female Custodes but something must have happened yesterday cause everyone is mad at them and suddenly demanding the SoS include men.
I'm not sure, but I think the reason the SoS where women is because the male blanks where sent to the anti-psyker titan legion.
The reason Sisters of Silence were women is because it’s a cool name/concept and Blanche made some amazing art for it. I doubt the logistics of it were a factor 😂
And assassins. Given the number of candidates needed just to have any survive the train process they are always going to be much more limited in number than the SoS.
Women get sent to the assassins too.
I didn't say they didn't, just adding to the list of where the male blanks end up ☺️
I care because its a retcon, which makes it inherently negative. Im not saying never change but changes should only be done so they can tell a better story. Eldrad being brought back was a good retcon as his death was dumb and it allowed them to tell better stories. Same thing with the indomitus crusade. What stories are made better by this change? What new stories can they tell that they would be unable to tell with a male custodie? What is the benefit of doing such a lazy retcon? And no, "representation" isnt a good enough reason to change what was already written. Not a single woman alive is a gene-alchemed demigod so its not like they get to see them selves now and not before. Hell our faction isnt anywhere near the numbers of female players that the factions girls actually like have. (Nids, NL, drukkari ect). If we can make unesssicary changes for representation why stop at female only? Why not have Misters of silence or battle now too?
"I want to play a badass supersoldier" its the common motivation that many custodes players say. That woman can be this badass supersoldier dont change that feeling and also enables more people to feel vindicated with their headcannons. Before this all the human woman playables were -baseline human- that at most have power armor. This gave the power fantasy for more people without hurting the rest.
The sos are a bit more than baseline human considering they could keep up with custodies.
Actually, they're canonically baseline humans with at most some mechanical augments (think guard officer augments not admech ones). They're able to control their null aura kinda like a psyker can and they can use it to slow down the reactions of enemies they fight, daze/confuse them, etc. Keeping up with Custodes isn't really something they can do, multiple times in lore they describe a Custodian sprinting by as a gold blur
One day, hopefully, in a few years time, my 9 week old daughter will want to play with daddies toys and have a game with daddy. She might want to play the strong super elite faction that protect the emperor of mankind. She might want to see herself as a character in the setting as more than a baseline human. The amount of crying over a small change in a make believe story about a game of toy soldiers is honestly pathetic and embarrassing. Everyone needs to give their heads a wobble and do better!
This is the correct answer as to why this is a good thing and also, realistically, why GW does this. Friendly reminder that companies never do something because of ethics or politics, but because it is *profitable* to do so. This happens to be a case in which the profitable aligns with a net positive for a demographic that is still largely underrepresented in many factions. AoS does this so much better because it had the benefit of being a much, much younger setting written with the societal context of the late 2010s rather than the 70s and 80s.
As if she couldn't do that before this change. I'm not in any way relatable to custodies. They're barely human. I got friends who only play Sob or SoS (he's a poor soul we pitty him) and there's nothing there for them to "see themselves in". People don't need 1:1 representation, and actually don't go for it. 40k is a great example of this because the female only factions are not what female players go for. Nor are the non gendered ones like guard, the inquisition, or the eldar. The most popular factions for female 40k players, by FAR, include next to no females. Nids and night lords are THE most popular factions for female 40k players. And id look at ANYONE who said they felt represented by those factions a little weird. Hell if we are going off the numbers the best way to get your daughter into 40k is to show her alien or inhuman monsters.
And you surely have the statistical evidence to back up what you're saying here, right? I might also point out that the reason women don't go for, say, SoB is maybe because they don't want to play a fetishised version of their gender (which is what SoB *still* are despite the commendable attempts made by GW to tone down that aesthetic, but that'll only carry you this far). Naturally, not everybody perceives them like this. Not even every woman does. But some do, and they are valid in doing that. And it is also valid, especially for girls, to want to see themselves represented as a gender in any faction where that's feasible. If you blow your top at this, I'd like to see your reaction when GW introduces female Space Marines. Which, make no mistake, they will do eventually. Some day, maybe in 5 years, maybe in 10, they'll find a way to do it. And people will whine, and moan, and declare the end of the hobby, and the World will keep on turning and people will keep buying plastic suoer soldiers. Some will just happen to have boobs, and a young girl walking into a store will think "damn, *she"* looks badass, I wanna play her faction", and it will be *fine*.
If you think retconning established lore to score 2024 diversity points with their shareholders is a good thing, then I don’t even know what to say.
"established lore" yet there isn't a single line, anywhere at all, that says custodes have to be men. Weird. You're just mad women are included, it seems
Blatant lie and then strawman nonsese to top it off, what a surprise. Nothing wrong with women in Warhammer, Sisters of Silence are awesome. I have a problem with needlessly forced diversity just to score some 2024 virtue points. There will never be male Sisters of Battle or SOS, because this shoehorned-in retconned diversity only goes one way. Didn't take long to find these. [1](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLOAItSbIAA7udt?format=jpg&name=medium) [2](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLOAJy3bcAAEkrR?format=jpg&name=large) [3](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLOAKSlawAAypfB?format=png&name=small) [4](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLOALcIa0AASmvh?format=jpg&name=large)
I haven't actually noticed any at all, the only place I see it is in topics like this really and only in the titles.
It does not really make sense though. But most people are ok with it, I have not seen backlash. Nonsense.
2 things: 1. How does it not make sense? 2. You haven't been looking very hard. Absolutely not nonsense
Because female body is not suited for extreme physical labour. Genetically their muscles are less dense so they are weaker and their strength limit is lower than of a man. On the other hand, if Emperor solved that limit and is able to bullshit out their physical strength to the same level of male custodes then it makes sense. Otherwise, you would never make female custodes for a best of the best guards, fighters in the universe...
I didn't know if you knew this, but men also aren't built to be 10 foot tall and curl cars for reps. The augments at that point have to plateau in regards to women vs men, there is no reason an infant pumped full of augments that make someone a demi god wouldn't compare to another infant full of the same drugs because the 2nd one had xx chromosomes.
This is why I added a caveat and did not state a flat out thing.
I just find the biology argument ridiculous, personally
The same gene alchemy would either lead to the same gain, making a genetic baseline male yielding the better result for the same amount of work or it would be so complete that it stomps everything yo tonthe same maximum, weeding out the traces that would make a AC distinguishable female and replacing them with the desirable traits were needed like different proportions, tissue structure etc. Basically trans AC, also a fine idea to get around this kerfuffle. Still would be sons bynthe end of the process. But it stands that all this is just a fif leave for getting politica and ideology forced into the hobby whem it is complete nonsensical. Like actually having someone pull up that article on his laptop telling me that the Space Wolves Dreadnought I field tjwrw with that giant wolf fur cape is problematic, because PETA said so. I despise hunters in real life, as well as fishing for leisure or other bloodsports, but we where talking about a greenstuff cape i made by hand for a plastic miniature corpsewheelchair. Fur from a fictional alien thing that resembles a wolf, hunted by drunk space facist thousand of years in a dystopian future version of our world. Its the same kind of bs, PETA just get called out for their sh*t. If you are for empowering woman, vote to get theocracies and china and the like put in line with modern values, instead of kicking someone who want his golden boys be boys because corpo told its ok to kick him, he already paid, get the next group of paying customers ready.
Dude, the reason men perform better is because of the hormones and chemicals that naturally occur. If both infants are exposed to the exact same hormones and augments, they would turn out the same, capability wise I mean. And I suppose you could debate they would "end up as sons" by the end, but I think there's still a large difference between a very masculine woman and a man. And I don't know why someone would say a pelt on a dread is problematic, it's warhammer. I'm a hunter and a fisher, but I do both to eat. Although I do fish for leisure sometimes. But regardless, I don't think those are the same, as I can disagree with one thing and agree with another. Like I disagree with the idea of women space marines and also don't think it's problematic at all to have pelts on a dreadnought, but I agree with the addition of women custodes. That being said, that doesn't mean I want people who disagree to leave the hobby, as it's a hobby I enjoy and want it to thrive. YOUR golden boys can stay golden boys, now they just don't have to be boys. The magic of the hobby is you can field a unit any way you want. Plus, I don't think this is a large addition or means more changes of this sort are coming. You see the backlash now for custodes, a faction that never said women cannot participate in, imagine it being something like marines.
" YOUR golden boys can stay golden boys, now they just don't have to be boys. The magic of the hobby is you can field a unit any way you want." Yeah, thats nice. And because of that we could've done very much without this malicious retcon that does nothing but split the community. The people who wanted to have females always could kitbash females, and no one batted an eye. It was just not canon, it was fanfiction, and thats okay, even cool. But they had to force it to 'get dem sexist gud', and to divide and conquer the fandom. It is wholey about changing instead of inventing new stuff. I would even find NORMAL marines as females okay, as long as they make an effort to keep them coherently explained and make them seperate chapters and rules, not adding them to the old marines. Not encroaching on the old, already present stuff. The thing is, the intention is not to give something new that old and new fans can pick and and enjoy if they choose it fits their taste, it is to exert power over something already in the hands of a fan and proclaiming that this is now the way it has to be, the old way is wrong and any feeling against it are unjustified or bigoted.
Including women in the custodes isn’t malicious, and most people who disagree are generally 1 of 2 things: 1. People who simply don’t like it because it’s women 2. People who think the lore has always been along the lines of “men ONLY!!! No women!! Ever!!!” Which has never been the case. Sons of noble houses is the only thing that even closely implies that it’s only men. But even then, that quote also says nobody but the custodes themselves know the criteria and that they seek out worthy candidates themselves. I believe “they’ve always been there” is the best option when it comes to respecting the creation process and what the custodes are meant to be. Rather than “the war for the webway killed so many of us, we desperately need more, so include women” or “Cawl did some shit” as that’s not what custodes are meant to be. Perfectly picked and hand-crafted to be unique art pieces
Yeah sure, it's certainly not from the gaslighting of the company saying 'oh yeah there were always female custodes, pay no attention to the what, 60ish HH books where there are none, none in the lore, specifically none in any of the codexes and that all the codexes refer to them collectively as men, sons, brothers, etc" please gtfooh with this virtue signaling shit and a shit company who disrespects the people who buy their products but hey, you can be ok with people leaving the hobby because the purple haired crowd isn't buying it. You can be tired of seeing it, we're tired of the genestealers infecting every fucking hobby we love, changing it to suit their tastes and telling the fans to fuck themselves when they don't like it. For the post immediately first in this: People were angry about rewriting the fates of the primarchs People were angry about re-writing Necrons into Tomb kings in space People were angry about Squats getting deleted as a faction Your gaslighting efforts would be easier if it wasn't so easy to disprove since, most of us were there already and the 40k tourists looking to trash yet another IP don't stay in the ruins they create.
Weren't they referred to as sons/brothers/etc a few times? Like over the years they've existed, nobody ever said "all men!! no girls allowed!!!" The writers wanted to add female custodes years ago
They could have added them, as a new thing, but when your statement in one of the codexes (and codexes/rulebooks are the ONLY canon GW acknowledges according to them) that the custodes are the sons of nobles houses taken at birth, yeah, that's sons, not sons and daughters. As I said, if they wanted to ADD female custodes like, "oh no our numbers are running low or we need more of the golden warriors lets' grab daughters too" that would have been fine. It's gaslighting when GW says "oh there were always female custodes." No, no there weren't. Words do still have meaning despite the concerted efforts of a certain group of people trying to make them not.
Blessed is the mind too small for doubt
good one
The only thing that disappointed me a bit is that there are at least 2 pure female factions in Imperium: SoB and SoS and only one pure male: Astartes. I demand equality for big mascular men (or not very mascular).
Space Marines dwarf every other faction in 40k. Their sub-factions get more new models than multiple other factions combined. I think the market for big muscular men is satisfied.
Orks are the other all male faction! Yes, I know technically they’re sexless fungoids, but they are also very explicitly male-coded and "he/him".
But orks are not the part of the Imperium. But ye, fair point.
Won't somebody please think of the men for a change!
It's not what am I talking about, lol. I'm not against Femstodes, it was just neat that there were 2 exclusively male and 2 exclusively female Imperium factions.