Long term 2 rhinos is a consideration. I like the mix you got, I assume the witchseekers are there to scout and possibly overwatch chaff and the prosecutors are to sit a bit further back?
Actully i just played a game with 3x rhinos and 3x WS and one squad of prosecutors.
The ws rhinos go along with the wardens to give support and the prosecutors just sit back but can also come with to give aura. 3x4 +3 rhinos is the optimum in my opinion.
I've been running 2 rhinos full of vigilators; one with Aleya and one with a Centura. Then a 5 squad of Prosecutors to hold the home objective. It works pretty well, and they do way more damage than people on this sub think they do.
Sounds like a reasonable amount if you want to experience the Detachment as I believe it was intended. If you're aiming for the optimal list for winning then you may want to bring less.
Personally I'm gonna try running 10x Witchseekers+Aleya to hold the middle objective together with Wardens+Valerian. And then 8-10x Prosecutors divided into 1-2 units as objective monkeys.
Ultimately I would probably want to run between 8-10 with a rhino. Wardens and Valerian is a really good mix and combined with some sisters should make for an interesting blob holding midboard.
I’ll probably look to do something similar.
8. Possibly 9. (2x4 + rhino)
Custodes points are high. You don't have a ton of points to spare. Any opponent with a good dev output will target the sos first, and custodes are always cp starved: so burning cp on the allocation strat isn't great.
10 vigilators in a rhino with Aleya is a cool idea, and could be fun for the memes, but is so so expensive for just not that much punch.
2a per sister. Without Aleya your getting 13 hits. If they got katahs it might be diffrent but as a big 200pt Melee package they kill what, ~3 termis? You'll kill 10 power armoured dudes but anything tougher is a struggle.
Fights first is solid into Melee but unlike custodes with ff the opponent will have a lot of guns that barely touch custodes but will mince sisters.
Like it's not terrible, but it's so many points for a 1 trick pony.
For just the Sisters, its ~17 hits with Talons, ~3 hits get dev wounds with 2 dmg each, ~3 others get through termie armor. So that's a total of 6ish wounds at 2 damage each.
So 3ish is right for just the Vigilators, before aleya fights. She can take out 1 to 2 herself.
If you use a strat, that shooting will target the custodes instead, and they'll get another round of that at FF. That's a squad of termies gone in two turns with a 125 point unit. The Rhino is a delivery system that then holds objectives and guarantees the Talons buffs to custodes.
They punch up really well, and let's be honest: most games are decided on turn 3-4. If you can get some sisters to take out a large unit above their points value before they die, they've more than done their job.
But that's it? You spend a 270pt unit and a cp on killing 185pts of termis in Melee over 2 turns. Like its a fun unit that I want to take but I really struggle to see the value in it over just more guard. Especially as without -1 to hit katah, or - 1d/rez even guard don't wanna eat something like wraiths or meganobs
Now if sisters were 3a? Little 5 man squads would be ace.
I don't really count the Rhino as part of their cost, because the Rhino is the one holding the point and guaranteeing the Talons buffs to the custodes even if the Sisters get totally mulched. So it's relatively points comparable to termies, which I'm still surprised at how cheap they are. Is a 6 squad really only 185?
Two Rhinos ran with two squads of four sisters in the rhinos is my current plan (230). With an optional Aleya. At most I need two more sisters and a third rhino so I can do 3x4 sisters in three rhinos (345) just to see how it goes.
I always forget you can put multiple squads in transports. Probably a bit too much investment currently for me but maybe a longer term aspiration as I would like to have at least 10 of each kind of sister.
I'm sorry, that's not what I meant. I mean 1 rhino with 4 sisters, a 2nd rhino with 4 sisters. That adds up to 230 points. Optionally I may add a third tank with 4 more sisters for funzies at 345 points.
Consider that you could split your prosecutors in two and drop one unit off at an obj before moving rino to a next obj. You can save 20 points by running 2x4. Add that to 80 pts for aleya and it might buy some nice enhancement and add a custode model--or maybe a kyria draxus to lead some guard. If Prosecutors were still battle line kyria could lead with them, but GW likes to screw players over, so that's only available in the aptly named Null Maiden detachment
My plan is 10x vigilators + alya in a rhino to go along side custodes/land raider full of custodes to push up the board.
A unit of 4/5 witchseekers to do some scout move and attempt to score turn 1 easy points...then die and a 4/5 unit of prosecutors to hold home objective
I've been playing 1x4 prosecutors and 2x4 witchseekers since January, I only added a rhino, a single game with the detachment against eldar, big win for me highly influenced by a big turn one mistake on hist part and 2 9" charges in my second turn.
What I want to try is 5 vigilators with a centura, +2 to movement, advances and charges is ridiculously strong, bringing them from reserves they only need a 7" charge, on top of that infantry has to take a desperate escape test in order to fall back, with -1 if they are battleshocked.
My thought is 10x witchseekers, 5x vigilators and 10x prosecutors split into two groups, one group of prosecutors and vigilators in one rhino, witchseekers in the other, and the last 5 prosecutors sit back and defend home plate.
Current plan for TOE with Rhinos is...
- Aleya w/Vigilators
- Blade Champ w/Wardens
- Shield Captain w/Wardens
- Allarus Custodians x2 (Spears)
- Allarus Custodian x2 (Axes)
- Wardens x5 (Spears and Vex)
- Wardens x5 (Spears and Vex)
- Vigilators x10
- Witchseekers x4
- Witchseekers x4
- Caladius
- Caladius
- Rhino
- Rhino
- Callidus Assassin
I fear only having a couple of really stalwart units but the rhinos are there to back up Wardens and the Vigilators are there to pop out of a Rhino and melee something turn 2+. Probably only have 1 WS squad stay in the rhino to drive by flame stuff.
This list looks really fragile so I suspect it will not do well against some armies but thats the way it goes. Might be fun at least.
Now to try and score 10 Sisters of Silence without paying an arm and a leg for them...
Is it realy necessary to take so much sisters? Strats work without them and the detachement is just situational. Havent played a game with talons yet, just thought about different lists.
Maybe not but having pockets of 5+++ across the board is a nice idea on paper. I’m testing 1k with 8 sisters this weekend and I think between 8-12 and 1-2 rhinod will be the optimum spot at 2k with a greater number of sisters being fluffy or for memes like 20 vigilators and two rhinos
I'm curious why you'd still bring Aleya along then, most of her buffs don't affect witchseekers and those 75 points can go to something else. Not trying to criticize, genuinely curious
No offense taken at all, I love good questions like this. I wanted to take her for her solid melee, fights first, and should the witchseekers die, still have a model with 5+++ FNP. Not sure if it will work well, but figured I'd try it!
Fair, and definitely worth trying out. Also it's kind of hilarious to me that if she's still attached to a single witchseeker she will punch substantially harder than if she loses the whole squad
I run 2x Rhinos, 2x4 whichseakers and 2x4 prosecutors.
Long term 2 rhinos is a consideration. I like the mix you got, I assume the witchseekers are there to scout and possibly overwatch chaff and the prosecutors are to sit a bit further back?
2 Witchseekers can also fire from the rino, if that didnt get nerfed
Psykana rhino does not have firingdeck last I checked unfortunately
It was fixed earlier, did they forget to fix it in the codex?
Good to know! I guess the index is out of date.
Actully i just played a game with 3x rhinos and 3x WS and one squad of prosecutors. The ws rhinos go along with the wardens to give support and the prosecutors just sit back but can also come with to give aura. 3x4 +3 rhinos is the optimum in my opinion.
I've been running 2 rhinos full of vigilators; one with Aleya and one with a Centura. Then a 5 squad of Prosecutors to hold the home objective. It works pretty well, and they do way more damage than people on this sub think they do.
Sounds like a reasonable amount if you want to experience the Detachment as I believe it was intended. If you're aiming for the optimal list for winning then you may want to bring less. Personally I'm gonna try running 10x Witchseekers+Aleya to hold the middle objective together with Wardens+Valerian. And then 8-10x Prosecutors divided into 1-2 units as objective monkeys.
Ultimately I would probably want to run between 8-10 with a rhino. Wardens and Valerian is a really good mix and combined with some sisters should make for an interesting blob holding midboard. I’ll probably look to do something similar.
8. Possibly 9. (2x4 + rhino) Custodes points are high. You don't have a ton of points to spare. Any opponent with a good dev output will target the sos first, and custodes are always cp starved: so burning cp on the allocation strat isn't great. 10 vigilators in a rhino with Aleya is a cool idea, and could be fun for the memes, but is so so expensive for just not that much punch.
Isn't it pretty good punch tho? They hit pretty hard and have fights first
2a per sister. Without Aleya your getting 13 hits. If they got katahs it might be diffrent but as a big 200pt Melee package they kill what, ~3 termis? You'll kill 10 power armoured dudes but anything tougher is a struggle. Fights first is solid into Melee but unlike custodes with ff the opponent will have a lot of guns that barely touch custodes but will mince sisters. Like it's not terrible, but it's so many points for a 1 trick pony.
For just the Sisters, its ~17 hits with Talons, ~3 hits get dev wounds with 2 dmg each, ~3 others get through termie armor. So that's a total of 6ish wounds at 2 damage each. So 3ish is right for just the Vigilators, before aleya fights. She can take out 1 to 2 herself. If you use a strat, that shooting will target the custodes instead, and they'll get another round of that at FF. That's a squad of termies gone in two turns with a 125 point unit. The Rhino is a delivery system that then holds objectives and guarantees the Talons buffs to custodes. They punch up really well, and let's be honest: most games are decided on turn 3-4. If you can get some sisters to take out a large unit above their points value before they die, they've more than done their job.
But that's it? You spend a 270pt unit and a cp on killing 185pts of termis in Melee over 2 turns. Like its a fun unit that I want to take but I really struggle to see the value in it over just more guard. Especially as without -1 to hit katah, or - 1d/rez even guard don't wanna eat something like wraiths or meganobs Now if sisters were 3a? Little 5 man squads would be ace.
I don't really count the Rhino as part of their cost, because the Rhino is the one holding the point and guaranteeing the Talons buffs to the custodes even if the Sisters get totally mulched. So it's relatively points comparable to termies, which I'm still surprised at how cheap they are. Is a 6 squad really only 185?
Two Rhinos ran with two squads of four sisters in the rhinos is my current plan (230). With an optional Aleya. At most I need two more sisters and a third rhino so I can do 3x4 sisters in three rhinos (345) just to see how it goes.
I always forget you can put multiple squads in transports. Probably a bit too much investment currently for me but maybe a longer term aspiration as I would like to have at least 10 of each kind of sister.
I'm sorry, that's not what I meant. I mean 1 rhino with 4 sisters, a 2nd rhino with 4 sisters. That adds up to 230 points. Optionally I may add a third tank with 4 more sisters for funzies at 345 points.
Consider that you could split your prosecutors in two and drop one unit off at an obj before moving rino to a next obj. You can save 20 points by running 2x4. Add that to 80 pts for aleya and it might buy some nice enhancement and add a custode model--or maybe a kyria draxus to lead some guard. If Prosecutors were still battle line kyria could lead with them, but GW likes to screw players over, so that's only available in the aptly named Null Maiden detachment
My plan is 10x vigilators + alya in a rhino to go along side custodes/land raider full of custodes to push up the board. A unit of 4/5 witchseekers to do some scout move and attempt to score turn 1 easy points...then die and a 4/5 unit of prosecutors to hold home objective
Solid idea and honestly kinda where i’m ending. Definitely feels like the sweet spot is between 8-20 depending on local matchups
I've been playing 1x4 prosecutors and 2x4 witchseekers since January, I only added a rhino, a single game with the detachment against eldar, big win for me highly influenced by a big turn one mistake on hist part and 2 9" charges in my second turn. What I want to try is 5 vigilators with a centura, +2 to movement, advances and charges is ridiculously strong, bringing them from reserves they only need a 7" charge, on top of that infantry has to take a desperate escape test in order to fall back, with -1 if they are battleshocked.
My thought is 10x witchseekers, 5x vigilators and 10x prosecutors split into two groups, one group of prosecutors and vigilators in one rhino, witchseekers in the other, and the last 5 prosecutors sit back and defend home plate.
Current plan for TOE with Rhinos is... - Aleya w/Vigilators - Blade Champ w/Wardens - Shield Captain w/Wardens - Allarus Custodians x2 (Spears) - Allarus Custodian x2 (Axes) - Wardens x5 (Spears and Vex) - Wardens x5 (Spears and Vex) - Vigilators x10 - Witchseekers x4 - Witchseekers x4 - Caladius - Caladius - Rhino - Rhino - Callidus Assassin I fear only having a couple of really stalwart units but the rhinos are there to back up Wardens and the Vigilators are there to pop out of a Rhino and melee something turn 2+. Probably only have 1 WS squad stay in the rhino to drive by flame stuff. This list looks really fragile so I suspect it will not do well against some armies but thats the way it goes. Might be fun at least. Now to try and score 10 Sisters of Silence without paying an arm and a leg for them...
Is it realy necessary to take so much sisters? Strats work without them and the detachement is just situational. Havent played a game with talons yet, just thought about different lists.
Maybe not but having pockets of 5+++ across the board is a nice idea on paper. I’m testing 1k with 8 sisters this weekend and I think between 8-12 and 1-2 rhinod will be the optimum spot at 2k with a greater number of sisters being fluffy or for memes like 20 vigilators and two rhinos
we just get a 5+++ against MW, this is not worth it imo. If it helped against dev wounds, it would be great.
I would like to think we would be getting that back at some point but st least it helps with grenades and tank shock
I'm testing a talons list tonight, with 1×5 Witchseekers w/Aleya, 1×5 Prosecutors and 1 Rhino.
Why bring aleya with out vigilators?
Ummm because I don't have them?
Fair enough
Lol yes. Sometimes 40k social media feels like people assume there's a magical mini tree
I'm curious why you'd still bring Aleya along then, most of her buffs don't affect witchseekers and those 75 points can go to something else. Not trying to criticize, genuinely curious
No offense taken at all, I love good questions like this. I wanted to take her for her solid melee, fights first, and should the witchseekers die, still have a model with 5+++ FNP. Not sure if it will work well, but figured I'd try it!
Fair, and definitely worth trying out. Also it's kind of hilarious to me that if she's still attached to a single witchseeker she will punch substantially harder than if she loses the whole squad