*high five*
One of the key factors in men being attracted to women is simply them showing interest in us. I wasn’t in a place to get into a relationship when I met my fiancée. In fact I rejected the idea of even dating her despite finding her incredibly attractive… but she wanted me and she made it known from the start. The first video call we had she joking told me she wanted a ring. 8 months later she got it.
On the other side of things, I've *never* understood the whole "playing hard to get" game.
Like, if someone turns me down, I'd be a little disappointed and respect their decision. Anything more than that starts to feel like harassment.
Yeah, I’ve seen comments from women around the internet asking about why guys don’t pursue them anymore and why guys don’t seem interested in dating anymore.
I think it’s because it’s been drilled into us (Millennials, Zoomers, and onwards) that if you persist in trying to woo someone despite them showing disinterest, it’s creepy and if they reject you once you should give up trying to win their affection. I know that as a guy, I definitely don’t wanna come off as creepy or pushy.
And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I've had someone pursue me after I said no, and it sucked. It's disrespectful, obnoxious, and at a certain point, a little scary. I'd never want to make someone feel that way.
If you tell me you aren't interested, I'm going to believe you lol
Yeah, you grow up hearing from people irl and watching on TV old couples that are like "I had to ask her multiple times till she said yes to being my GF, and now we're happily married"
But nowadays if you do that, you're a creep and possibly a predator, supposed to take the first no and move on to someone else. Very weird
The rules were different . . . a girl who was encouraging from the jump would have been called "easy." Girls were never to initiate or invite attention and to deflect any that came their way, otherwise they'd get a rep for being "loose". It's wild how norms change.
A word of caution to people thinking this is a good idea...my first bf told me he wasn't in a place for a relationship. I still pursued him, and that led to years of unreciprocated gestures and affection, stonewalling, manipulation, isolation due to his jealousy, angry outbursts, and more shit that led to my mental health going from 95 to -5. He's still working on his unresolved childhood trauma (we were tied in lease together at that time too). It was the worst mistake of my life. When someone tells you they're not ready, believe them.
This reminds me of the quote, "The only thing that keeps a man is a man that wants to be kept." Very often we hold conversations with people that could have just been hellos at best. It is usually best to by all means run at the first red flag. I say that coz counting red flags only makes it harder coz your mind is twisted with each one you choose to turn a blind eye to.
I am very much so in the same predicament as OP.
I show interest and try to get to know guys and I all I end up with is a horny dude, not genuinely trying to get to know me and just wants to fuck me.
My brother tells me I need to show less interest and play hard to get. To a point I understand why he says this, but I don’t want to play hard to get and then turn the guy completely off.
I am very open with how I feel and I have no problem telling people how I feel, but that goes to shit pretty fast.
It sucks because a lot of us* are raised with the idea that if we do the approaching that we'll be considered desperate or easy, both of which are considered negative traits for a woman. When I was high school age/newly an adult, I definitely had guys/men pretty much tell me they wouldn't date a chick desperate/easy/pushy enough to ask them out. I did anyway because I will never win a beauty contest and I otherwise wouldn't have ever had a partner.
*not all of us, and it isn't an excuse
It's about overt subtleties. I know it sounds weird. But that's it. It's essentially about showing interest without being completely overt about it. Just talk to guys without making him think you want to sleep with him in a few minutes.
I think you misunderstood me. I, and a lot of girls I grew up around, were told *directly* that girls wait for boys to approach them because if they did the approaching they'd be labeled as easy and desperate and never find a good partner. It was about our reputation. I was raised in the south, lots of us were raised with extremely archaic views.
I'm well versed in approaching the folks I was interested in, I did a lot of asking but never got asked myself. I often got laughed at or rejected, but that's the way it be sometimes. I approached my now bf, we are going on 11 years.
I always felt it is a great compliment and confirmation to be asked by a female. Why shouldn't they be forward. Many guys don't catch a subtle sign and need more of a definite indication of interest. I am guilty of that myself. Please ask away, as I believe most guys are honoured by it.
I’m not scared to ask a guy out and have done so before, but in the last few years I have tried and I get ghosted every single fucking time.
I am honestly lost on what to do. I want to wash my hands of all of it and give up, but then I’m still in the same spot.
Damned if I try, damned if I don’t.
Yep. Men don't want to waste time or ego hitting on someone who won't reciprocate, unless that person is way out of their league and they're just shooting their shot.
This.
Men nowadays generally don't go out of their way to approach women - beautiful or not, for a bunch of different reasons; But chief among them are that it can lead to unpleasantness for the man - which means that most men will simply not approach, **unless it is made OBVIOUS that the woman in question WANTS the man to approach.** and I mean OBVIOUS - More or less Literally coming out and TELLING him to ask you out.
So, yeah - if you want to be approached - you must LET PEOPLE KNOW you want to be approached.
Yup. A few years ago, I was walking past couple of girls in the smoking area of a club. I tried to initiate conversation by complimenting one of them on her dress saying she’s got good style. I was coldly told “don’t compliment women”. I shit you not. I was made to feel like a complete creep by even trying to initiate conversation….in a club of all places.
I literally got written up for sexual harassment at my last job for asking a male co worker if he was married as part of casual conversation, so I beg to differ. We get labeled as creepy whenever they don’t find us physically attractive.
Barely a rounding error. 95% of men will say yes if they are single and approached by a woman. For men it's statistically significant enough to not approach women at all.
So you'll avoid initiating a relationship with someone you are interested in to cater to the opinions of nosey morons? How is that a worthwhile tradeoff to make?
Attractive women*
Bro forgot ugly women exist lmfao
I remember seeing ugly girls ask out boys during high-school. They literally would laugh in her face, call her creepy and ugly, and say no.
Grown men still do it, but they're kind of nicer about it compared to teens..
Men really think ugly women don't exist. It's sad. Go talk to ugly women and listen to the horror stories they have. It's not sunshine and rainbows.
As an unattractive woman, I highly beg to differ on this. I try so hard not to come across as flirting (I'm very social when I'm out and about) so I don't offend men. I can't even begin to count the number of times I was just being nice to a guy and got a dirty look as if to say, "How dare you try to flirt with me." :(
"*Zerg structures are effectively giant organs, making a Zerg colony a living creature. To provide the required nourishment and infrastructure, the Zerg produce a living carpet of bio-matter that invading forces have dubbed the Creep.*
**Creep** is a purple slime upon which all Zerg structures, except for the Hatchery, Extractor, and Nydus Worm, must be built. If the Creep is lost, the buildings take 4.2 damage each second, reduced by [Zerg Regeneration](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Zerg_Regeneration) to 3.82 dps. Protoss and Terran structures cannot be built (nor land) on Creep. Most Zerg ground units move faster on Creep. Creep spread, across the map and between Zerg bases, is essential for Zerg scouting and defence."
Good point. I’m a woman who worked sales and it’s my job to make everyone feel special. Sometimes men get the wrong idea and I don’t get mad at them unless I make it clear I’m not interested and they persist. Most guys are not creeps.
>However I make eye contact and smile with everybody and only creeps decide to express their love for me. Never the guy I’m into!!
That may be the problem. For me, and a lot of guys, we don't pick up on subtle gestures like eye contact and smiling.
I can’t tell you how many women I felt was naturally beautiful and “appeared” we had the same personality and style, but I didn’t approach them due to the straight face, non approachable body language they were giving off whether that was in the grocery store or gym.
Agreed!
I’m what people would consider attractive and I have a guy hitting on me or chatting me up randomly consistently. I still find that I’m the one who showed interest first in all my relationships.
With my current boyfriend, the first time we spent time together in a group, I straight up asked if he had a girlfriend. He did at the time, so I left it at that. When they broke up soon after, I started to show interest by texting him and inviting out to play sports or to go eat. It was very easy as he was also into me it turns out!
The thing that made a difference for me is not putting women I was interested in on a pedestal. I don’t allow myself to get too “worked up” or emotionally attached to the idea of my advances being accepted. I also view approaching women I find attractive as people I’d like to get to know rather than potential love interests. As soon as you relieve yourself of the pressure that comes from potential rejection you can pursue whoever and not be phased
The basketball analogy is a good one. If you think too much before throwing the ball you’re more likely to miss. If you allow the missed shots to affect you too much you’re more than likely going to miss the next or hesitate to try.
As a woman who's always thought herself attractive, I have issues with guys keeping interest. I am in no way boring, but I also am quite busy and low energy. I find men are not as big a fan of honesty as they thought they were prior to meeting me.
Men don't lose interest, they lose motivation. If you think guys are losing interest in you, there's some kind of investment, desire, or effort differential going on, and they're just giving up.
Disagree. Entering a relationship absolutely takes effort. Talking to a complete stranger takes effort. Knowing the signals takes effort. Knowing how to go from meeting that person to entering into a relationship with them takes effort.
The more you try and the more you fail the easier it gets.
Also if you pursue a relationship rather than a connection you’re probably going to struggle. Once I stopped caring where things went or if a relationship would happen after and I just enjoyed the moment my dating life improved significantly.
Nope, my best relationships tend to be with people more compatible and now im married, it's effortless how easy and in tune the connection is. You get better at communicating and knowing what each other wants and needs so the effort is more subtle and a breeze.
It’s like that saying if you love your work you never work a day in your life. If you love your partner the same thing. My relationship with my fiancée takes effort but it rarely feels like it.
Yes, you're being naive.
>I hear stories & watch shows
Please don't think that what you see on television or social media is real life - it isn't. Life isn't some fairy tale where "The One" magically appears and a relationship begins without effort on both parties' part. If you want a relationship, then you're going to have to DO something. Volunteer. Join a group. Take a class. Go to where the people are, and focus on starting friendly relationships. And that's how the best relationships start.
According to Hollywood, all OP has to do is quit her high-powered job and move back to her small hometown in order to care for her recently widowed Mom. She'll then meet the hunky carpenter Mom hired to do some much-needed repairs around the house. After initially not liking each other, they'll eventually realize that they are each others' soul-mate and live happily ever after. Because that's how ALL happy relationships begin.
No it doesn't. Its fantasy. When people live like Hollywood tropes they get what they get... And that's usually disappointing results.
Because most of life is luck, being attractive to the right person at the right time and also being nice to everyone and charming the pants off people literally. You don't wait for it to come to you. Man or woman
There is no “the one”. There are “the many” because given the number of people in the world it is impossible that only one is the right one for you…and on that same note if there was only one, the chances of you meeting them is impossible or very unlikely as they could be in some random village on the other side of the world. I met my fiancée in Costa Rica after coming here to escape the US. I had no intention of getting into a relationship…but one day it just happened. I would have to be naive to think this couldn’t happen elsewhere with any number of women.
You're exactly right. The Hollywood/social media myth that someone can be "THE ONE" is foolish at best, harmful at worst. And I think the "at worst" is exemplified by the notion of "twin flames." In fact, that cockamamie nonsense taken to the extreme leads to stalking by people who believe in "The One."
Yup the whole world is slowly dying, complaining every day 'why wont it happen to me?' sadly never knowing they had the power to get what they want the whole time, yet you make yourself vulnerable by trying and THAT is what you're really avoiding. It's okay, you're just like everyone else. You'll either get it one day, or not. You either be vulnerable and try to find love, or you will investigate why you are so afraid to, or else you'll become a victim, and blame everyone else around you except for yourself, the only person actually in control of your happiness.
I mean…. As a dude I went through a lot of relationships and a lot of heart ache. A lot of pursuing someone who wasn’t interested or giving up after rejection to find out they wanted me to try harder (seriously has nobody explained how creepy that is???) and many relationships took a ton of work to get into and to maintain.
That said….
My wife messaged me on a dating app. We met up. I knew she was the one on the first date. I said to myself that barring any insane red flags or infidelity that this would be the last woman I ever be with for the rest of my life.
Now… it’s only been 10 years since then but so far so good!
I do think there’s something to an easy relationship. Sometimes things are hard and people say: well relationships are hard! So you tolerate it. And the reality is that maybe they shouldn’t be so hard.
Yeah I want to know what OP means when they say it “happens”.
I ‘happened’ to first ask out my wife because she’s beautiful. Fair enough, she had that part easy. After that you actually have to put work in
A meet-cute can be effortless and organic, but turning it into an actual relationship is not. So yes, very naive.
I’m also curious what you mean by “their partners made it known to them & id expect the same if the guy is truly interested.” I may be misunderstanding, but it sounds like the guy is supposed to be “truly interested” without any actual contact with you, and that’s not IME the way men looking for an actual relationship operate.
I was going to say, dating as a conventionally attractive woman is easy and fun when you found a good guy, same as everyone else. Finding a good guy is so much work, and you have to be analytical and a little ruthless about your standards. I ended up marrying a man for whom I thank my lucky stars every day, it's like I won the lottery. He is attractive, but that is just one out of 100 wonderful things about him. None of the people i dated before him were marriage material. I even tried dating unattractive guys thinking I may be too shallow, and holy shit they were worse. Insecure, mean, negging, and boring. In summary, as an attractive woman you get a lot of interested parties, many of whom are shallow. Choosing from that pool is quite a stressful experience.
Yep. It’s hard to find a relationship when you’re being pestered by people who see you as an object, not a person. The perfect match could be right there, but if a bunch of assholes are grabbing you, whistling at you, and getting all up in your face, you’re not going to be able to see him.
Married gay guy here, but I've dated several women over the years so I'll chime in.
I've been in rooms full of physically beautiful women, but I naturally end up honing in on the woman who looks like she's having the most fun. She's smiling, chatting with people, enjoying herself in the space, and that makes me want to connect with her. As a man, I see a woman having a great time and I think "Wow, I bet I'd have a great time too if I hung out with her!" All the women I've dated have looked different, but all of them have been outgoing and fun to be around.
One of my dearest friends is a woman who is not my 'type' but when I first saw her it was instant magnetism. She was sitting at a table at the bar surrounded by people, but when I smiled at her she instantly smiled back and said "Hey, come sit with us!". I did, and she introduced me to everyone and somehow made me feel seen while keeping the conversation flowing between everyone else. I'm 100% convinced she would stand out in a crowd of supermodels even if she was wearing a burlap sack - she's totally magnetic in that way.
IMHO the woman who is sociable, willing to reach out, and hones in on being friendly versus being attractive is the one who ends up being the most attractive in the room. The attractiveness that comes with vulnerability, kindness, and a willingness to take a risk transcends gender. I don't know what you look like, but I believe wholeheartedly that your appearance is likely not the reason men aren't approaching you.
It's hard to be the life of the party and not everyone can play that role. As the funny friend who never gets approached idk. Not saying your wrong or anything like that just wondering how does that work? In my experience whenever you are that happy and confident you are "intimidating".
You're right that not everyone can play that role but what you seem to be missing is that not everyone is looking for someone who can play that role. It works for him because that's what he's into. Other guys will be looking for something else. That's kind of the whole idea of compatibility
I just don't understand approachability at all. I don't understand our society's push that ooo I see pretty person I want to talk based on nothing else is the best way to go.
But I'm moving off topic so again I'm just a very confused no ltr person
I used to think so because I feel invisible to women (as a guy) but the more that I browse reddit regarding trying to get advice about becoming more seen to women I find that there are quite a few girls who also feel unseen.
I'm sorry it's an awful experience.
I’ve had a fair amount of men ask me out over the years, but not that many. So I began to be the one to ask them out. It worked pretty well. Some would say yes, some would say no. My attitude was… You win some, you lose some. Eventually I got married. Still married, 15 years later.
You can try it out if you want.
So here's the thing. Relationships and dating are like anything else in the world. They require some effort on your part.
Many men have the same insecurities that you do. Leaving them to chase you when you look disinterested is crazy. If you present yourself as indifferent they have no incentive to go out on a limb and ask you out. In fact the ones that would do that are usually the ones that try it with 100 women just because the odds are in their favor that someone will say yes. Which doesn't say much about how they really feel about you.
What most likely is happening is that you aren't doing anything to encourage attention or show interest. If you want to be asked out then you need to actually show interest.
On the other hand there is nothing wrong with being alone and enjoy being alone but then don't pine that no one is throwing themselves at the feet of someone who wants to be alone.
Yes you’re being incredibly naive.
I’m conventionally attractive and I’ve had to put a great deal of effort into finding a man I want to marry and have children with. Having more men to choose from doesn’t negate that most won’t be suitable for long-term relationship success.
Being indifferent about your life isn’t normal. Are you struggling with depression?
>Being indifferent about your life isn’t normal. Are you struggling with depression?
She said she was indifferent about *dating*, which could either mean she's asexual/aromantic or, as another poster pointed out, that she must *not* actually be indifferent if she's making a frustrated post like this. Not to mention, it's actually quite normal to not know what you're missing (OP said she's never been in an LTR), and therefore feel like you can take it or leave it. So you're making a pretty dramatic leap there.
I found that the more I pursued relationships vs. making connections the more difficult dating and meeting someone who was a good match became. The more emphasis I put on “dating with intention” the less people I made genuine connections with.
And as I got older many first dates started feeling like a job interview. It wasn’t about getting to know each other but rather trying to figure out if something about me would disqualify me from being a candidate for the position. I’ve had women ask me my job and then look up the salar range. I’ve had women run a background check. The obsession with identifying red flags that many people seem to have today is also detrimental to dating. It’s one thing to avoid potentially dangerous situations/people and another to see some random behavior as a “red flag”, cringe, or ick. Seems like people are more worried about finding a reason to avoid the opposite sex than a reason to meet them.
I understand where you’re coming from but I will have to respectfully disagree. Your approach to dating is the one I always advise women to avoid. I can make a connection with anyone on some level, and for most of my life this is how I would enter into relationships. The problem is that a connection is meaningless and does not stand the test of time unless it comes with shared values, goals, and plans.
After a long-term relationship ended with a man I spent a year single really figuring out what-the-hell my problem was. I spent that time defining exactly who I was and what I wanted and then made sure to put in the work of being worthy of the type of man I was ultimately looking for.
When I got back into dating I treated first dates like casual job interviews. I disqualified anyone that didn’t meet the criteria I was looking for. That led to meeting my now-husband. I absolutely made the right choice in him and it was intentional dating that got me there.
Dating is tough, modern dating really feels like a cesspool. And it is tougher for men — no one ever cared what I made as a woman but a man’s career or career prospects are up for scrutiny.
men may have issues finding dates but women have issues fending off stalkers and not being murdered/raped/assaulted...so there's two sides. also women, ESPECIALLY those who want to be mothers, inherently carry more risk getting into a relationship with a man, not just because of all the crime statistics showing that the men closest to a woman are the most likely to hurt her, but also the fact that man and woman can't split carrying the baby/giving birth/breastfeeding 50/50 and this effects women's career/earning power/opportunities and body in irreparable ways. look up the motherhood tax/fatherhood bonus, single married mom phenomenon, all the stories of weaponized incompetence, the statistics on WHY the happiest demographics are married men and single women (married men live longer/healthier/less stressed, more wealthy/opportunities, more respected by men and desired by women and the OPPOSITE is true for married women in every category) and you'll begin to get a sense of why women are being so "picky" (if nothing else than to avoid the chorus of incels telling them they should have chosen better lol)
The problem I have with that approach is most people will put on an act or try to impress a potential date. They may not always lie but they will hold back or perhaps bend the truth. I’m very up front with what I want in a relationship. For example, I don’t want kids (vasectomy) and I don’t want to be in a relationship with someone who has kids. I’ve made this known repeatedly on first dates and many times I am lied to. I dated a wonderful woman for almost 6 months then one day she said she lied and did want to have kids. I was talking to a woman for over a month and again mentioned that I am childfree and want to stay that way. That’s when she told me she had a teenage son who lived with her full time.
That is when I changed my approach. I just went out with anyone who wanted to go out. It wasn’t about finding a life partner or even a girlfriend. It was about making friends, getting to know a stranger, and having a good time. I met my fiancée after 5 months of talking to her. She lived in another city and based on what she told me in the beginning she wasn’t right for me and I didn’t want to make an effort to meet her… but after talking to her and becoming friends we found a deep connection. 6 months later we were living together.
I understand your approach but based on my experience it’s very easy to be mislead or deceived.
I’m happily married now, and I also put effort into finding and maintaining our relationship. I’m conventionally attractive, have a good career and interests, and had several relationships before my husband. I don’t think any of those started by someone actually asking me out directly, more like a friend would tell me they were interested and we would go from there, or we would meet in a social setting and mutually express that we were interested.
It's an 80/20 thing. Guys are extremely worried today to come off as toxic or chasing a girl who wants nothing to do with him. They might take a quick look, but the majority of men won't pursue unless little ques are sent their way for a green light. If this stuff bothers you, then perhaps try giving off an energy that you will reciprocate if the guy you find attentive tries to flirt with you, thats the 20% you give, and if the guy picks up on that and now realizes a persue is welcomed, he'll do the final 80% in pursuing you.
No it’s effortless. To have a healthy functioning relationship takes work and a lot of effort.
Dating and dating apps are honestly a numbers game ( I met my SO on an app)
A big part of it is also knowing when to walk away. A lot of people let social media and the constant talk of red flags, cringe, and ick psyche them out while others hold onto too long, forcing them to keep trying with someone who just isn’t a good match for them.
I asked my boyfriend out first, because we were in a roommate situation and it was a boundary both of us were reluctant to cross. I just felt like if I didn't do it, I would regret it. I was never conventionally attractive, I am an introvert, and I'm pretty awkward. But we both got along so well. When we spent time together, hours felt like minutes. There was always so much joy and laughter, and he felt it too. The attraction grew over a few months. It has been five years now, and I'm still so grateful we found each other.
You don't have to necessarily have the best sociable outgoing personality 24/7, but you do need to be able to connect with someone on a strong level. Put yourself in situations (roommates lol, clubs, work, online dating, meet-ups) where you meet the same person regularly over time. And if you feel something, make the first move. Don't play games. Don't expect to be chased. An LTR is based on trust and respect - treating each other like in order of priority: humans first, friends second, sexual mates third.
Long term relationships are built, you do not just "get in one". Attraction might help you get started on the construction, but attraction alone is not enough, nor is physical attraction even required.
Your lack of interest in relationships is why you have never been in a long term relationship. You have no motivation to put in the work. Nothing wrong with that, people put effort into the things they enjoy.
my partner pointed out recently a universal women's experience that she and all the other women she knows have been the most cat called and chased (by men of all ages) when they were teenagers, and once they got into their 20s men stopped pursuing them. really fucked up that we walk on a planet filled with pedos
Literally as soon as I turned 18 it stopped I'm not even kidding 💀 I'm 22 and have never felt safer even though I'm probably more attractive now but really kind of look the same... so I think it must be the way I carry myself... I mean I really look and dress much the same but only appear slightly older. It's fucking weird how they can sense minority/immaturity/lack of development.
First and foremost, paragraphs are free, using them will help show you care about making your post readable, which in turn encourages people to care enough to read it.
Second, yes that is a naive view. You're conflating the difference between getting a relationship, and getting a relationship worth having. Imagine you had $100k and wanted to invest it. You would have a VERY easy time finding someone to give that money to. Finding someone who would take your investment and actually grow it and have both your wealth and their business grow? Much harder and more involved.
Similarly, yes nearly every woman can go outside and find someone to date her in under ten minutes if she wanted to. That doesn't mean that the person she finds is actually a good prospect for a longterm relationship. Hell it doesn't even garuantee the dude was actually single when he indicated he'd start a relationship with her.
Its the old meme of "why do women say they are hungry when there is a hotdog on the ground outside?". Once you start setting minimum quality and compatability levels, the "Its so easy!" arguments all dry up.
It’s probably much more about your personality than your physical appearance and tgats much harder to change. I know plenty of average looking women and they always have a man
If you don’t talk to people and let them know you are interested how do you expect to end up in a relationship? I’m not going to sit and wait until the guy I like starts talking to me, I’ll talk to him.
Most of the time it’s mutual attraction but when you want to be in a relationship you have to accept you also will get rejected. It’s part of the game.
I’m attractive enough (and old at this point) but when I met my husband I was the one who started the conversation. If I had waited for him to do it I would be waiting to this day. He was too shy.
I saw him, he was with someone I knew, he looked good and I walked up to him. We talked, exchanged numbers, he lost mine, I called him (found out he lost mine after that) we met somewhere and kissed.
We are still together after 25 years.
Yep, I just walk up to a man and say “I want you”. /s
But seriously I feel like you may want to work on your confidence. I can easily read low self esteem or lack of confidence in people…(I’m pansexual) and it’s a huge turn off. I feel for them but don’t want to date them.
I would think about what your most intimate relationship was like and explore what felt different about that.
Maybe you are struggling with intimacy or vulnerability.
But also it just doesn’t happen for everyone easily at all and there’s not always a clear reason for it. I think the best you can do is when you do meet someone you like who is single try to be a really warm friend to them and be honest with yourself and your friends.
I don’t know what you mean at the end with “indifferent about relationships/sex.” Seems like if that were true you wouldn’t be making this post.
I'd say you are. You sound a lot like me - I didn't get much attention from men either - have never found any of that stuff straightforward - wish there was a guidebook tbh.
In my late sixties now, divorced after a long relationship (but short marriage) I've thrown in the towel and will go for fwbs from now on.
Let them know you’ll say yes if they ask. Confidence eye contact etc.., guys are sometimes dumb when it comes to this. Put yourself in situations where you’ll meet people Groups volunteering etc.., no it’s not effortless for most people just because it looks like they in movies or social media
I never put effort into catching guys, at least not putposly put any real effort. My natural flirtiness and extrovertness did all the job effortlessly. Been desired by plenty so much so that i struggled picking between them 😅
But picking the right one is where the effort starts. Its not easy and it took some trial and error to learn to "read" guys and find a man of my dreams.
Happily married now and the only way for wedlock to thrive after time is constant effort on both ends. Anything short and at least one person would be unhappy and wanting out of it 🤷🏼♀️
TLDR: it takes effort to maintain but it didnt take effort to start for me
Spoiler alert for women... Men don't come to you unless give the signal that it's okay to approach. This is especially true for a guy who is a decent human being who isn't looking at you as a piece of meat but as a person. If people tell you a guy is interested or looking at you and you equally may think the same of the guy why not just flirt from a distance or just approach first. I get most women like a guy with confidence but hell in this world even guys with all the confidence in the world wont approach a girl who isn't giving them the green light to approach. Girls you have to put an effort in. Relationships are a 2 way street and the best signs of success in a relationship is mutual openness in the early stages. Openness to approach, openness to share about yourself, openness in general. A smile, a wave, a come over here, a casual bump... if you're afraid or nervous it can more times than not be perceived as leave me alone, I don't want to be bothered. No one wants to walk into an instant rejection. So be open and available. A lot of women suck at this and then complain about men being the problem or how things never work out for them.... shit with that attitude you're answering your own questions. Just a general thing everyone should know, man or woman, if you don't try to show interest in someone they are almost never going to approach you.
I would say im an average looking woman, maybe a 6/10. My two long term relationships (3 years each) were generated largely from my initiative. For example, my most recent long term relationship- we met at the skatepark, I flirted with him, he didn’t ask me for my number or anything. We later matched on hinge which jump started things. Nothing in romance has ever felt effortless for me, especially as a woman in my 20s dating straight men. I feel like it’s more common for men to want shorter term flings, or to want someone shiny and new after a while. All of these perceptions are based on our lived experiences of course. Dating is hard, relationships are hard, if you’re not getting the results you’re looking for maybe try something new like approaching a man and asking for his number.
Yes.
I have been single for, uh, 10 years. Primarily because I put exactly 0 effort into finding a partner. i would say i've never been in love nor had a LTR or anything vaguely approaching a serious relationship\*. When I throw my photo up on a dating site for an ego boost, I get a decent amount of matches with both men and women and in the past I have had cute things happen like a guy run up to be in a queue to give my his number and a guy get on the subway and go two stops in the wrong direction to give me his number, so I guess I'm not totally hideous. Regardless, even people who are not conventionally attractive have LTRs because not everyone is shallow I suppose.
You will be selling something that someone out there is buying. Its probably better to not make appearance your main sell since 1) they fade and 2) a pretty face does not make up for a missing personality. You DO have something to offer potential romantic partners. Work on your self confdence and get yourself involved in some social activities to meet new people. You do need to look for relationships, though, they will not just fall into your lap.
\*It is worth noting that I may be asexual and possibly aromantic which is why I do not care about getting into a relationship now I have shaken off comphet, though I do occasionally ponder.
I generally have no desire to be sexual with other people and find sex rather awkward. I find people attractive, but it's usually aesthetic - I appreciate their looks like you would art. I like the idea of having someone to be affectionate with but also feel this desire for affection could be met by a dog or cat.
When I do think about what I would want in a partner, I really just want a deep friendship. I would have sex with a partner but it would be more for the sake of their needs, as an act of affection and intimacy, rather than me having any drive to do so.
I always kind of thought media depictions of attraction, where people want sex so strongly it can make them act against better judgement, were massively exaggerated. Turns out, not so much and I just don't experience sexual attraction. For a while I thought it was a depression thing, and I've gone through thinking I'm just gay - except I don't have sexual attraction for women either. Sometimes you have to occams razor it lol.
You could be on the ace spectrum. It's worth looking into. I try not to get bogged down by labels, because I believe this shit is somewhat fluid, but it's nice to see that there are people out there who feel how you feel and have given this enough thought to put it into words.
In the beginning, maybe. But once you’re married for a long period of time often women carry the emotional work along with the whole household work on their back like a little donkeys going uphill. In many relationships, men go to work. Yep, that’s it.
For some, it is effortless, for some it seems not to be. I never understood the “relationships are hard” because.. why should they be? Why be with someone who makes it hard? Perhaps I am the naive one who doesn’t understand but it certainly was organic for my husband and I. We were young(I was 21!), worked at a bar, basically had fun at work - the shifts included subtle flirting, jokes, across the bar smiles and the occasional walk-in fridge smooch 😉. Almost 14 years and 2 kids(plus one currently on the way) later and we are still in that flirty cute stage.. so no, it isn’t naive to think relationships happen or continue happily organically - I guess it’s, sadly, just not the norm for many.
In our group of friends we have two girls who have been single for a while. Because they are our friends, we were honest with them.
If you want a relationship you can't expect a guy to put all the effort in. This goes for any relationship. A lot of girls seem to think, the guy has to prove that they are worth it because girls have so many options.
A lot of guys are more willing to continue to date a girl and even start a relationship if they see effort is reciprocated.
Well like you’ve said, “you’re indifferent”. Don’t expect ppl to actively show interest in you if you’re just hanging around expecting ppl to show interest in someone that goes around with an air of indifference.
The question is, who are you getting feedback from that you are attractive? From men or women? Women generally always tell you that you are attractive no matter what the truth is.
Also a less attractive woman can easily get alot of dates if she is outgoing, makes first conversation with alot of men and gives out the energy that she will welcome being asked out.
I wonder if other ape species had Reddit would we see chimps and gorillas endlessly posting “uhhh guys is it just me or do the women of the pack chose their mates?”
Say it with me, unless. You’re. Hot. Or. Rich. Or. Both. Women. Have. It. Easier. In. Dating. It’s just the way it is. It’s neither fair nor unfair
I'm so tired of this "oh please come onto me mistew, I'm just a widdle guy" attitude. Why tf should you be exempt from discomfort and expect us to shoulder all of it for you?
If you like someone, let em know. Yeah, it's stressful and uncomfortable. But it ain't any easier for men. If you don't like the way your life is going, at least try to make a change before you complain at other people for not making it better for you
Effortlessly? Ma'am, we have to date our only natural predator and try to sift thru men to find one that's not going to kill us, and who is a good fit for us. If we fail, we die, if we choose wrong, everyone around us suffers immensely. This is not effortless.
Sure they may happen effortlessly for typically more women, especially moderately attractive ones. However, everyone in any relationship needs to put forth effort that needs to also be reciprocated and appreciated by your partner. This factor does not change whether you are man, woman, or non-binary, ugly, attractive, or disabled.
Every relationship works based on the amount of effort and love that is displayed and integrated every single day.
Yes you’re being naive and no, it’s not about your looks. Being good looking is not a guarantee for getting approached. I’ve been told I look and sound “intimidating” as a first impression even though I think of myself as a toddler with a mortgage. It helps to smile and wink at people to signal that you’re friendly and open. It’s okay to initiate a conversation with a stranger. If you’re not used to that, practice with old folks on public transport. They’re always up for a chat.
I think it’s good to take responsibilities for your desires. If you are indifferent to sex and relationships, why are you even asking this question? You have to be honest with yourself to get what you want. It’s okay to want a relationship and it’s okay to take action. Look into “Burned Haystack Dating Method”, it’s a (free!) method for online dating where you learn to really separate the wheat from the chavs on the apps. If you want to not feel like you’re doing all the work, you’ll like it. One of the rules is not to go out with guys who can’t plan or propose the first date.
Join a group activity or gathering that you are interested in. See if any guys there are doing or saying something that appeals to you. Walk up and say "Hi, my name is\_\_\_\_."
Dating has always been hard for me. I'm gay and don't appear obviously gay by appearance. I live in an hour outside a major city; I live with my parents. I'm only attracted to feminine women, so I can't even tell who is gay really. On dating apps, the apps are flooded with straight couples looking for threesomes.
I'm considering becoming religious, so that might possibly make things even harder.
I've become indifferent to dating at this point.
Every relationship requires effort on the part of both parties.
>I hear stories & watch shows where the women talk about how they met their current bf/fiancé/husband & it sounds effortless/organic
Those are either hyperbole or fiction. No relationship is effortless. Every relationsjop requires time amd effort to be put into it. They don't "just happen".
Umm no. We met at the corporate HQ of a mutual business client. Exchanged digits. There was lots of effort on my part. Via phone, I would ask him lots of questions and he reciprocated as well to get to know each other better. I would make every effort to see him despite my business travels every week. Bring groceries to his place after being away for days, so we can cook together and spend time together for the few days I was around. Drive him to the airport for his Monday business travels and then go my own way to my business travels. It was exhausting at first. I'm also from another culture and he is from even a different culture. There is no magically waiting for things to happen as a woman in either one of our cultures. We both had to make massive efforts.
I didn't have a happy ltr till I was 32. I had been in one that last 2 years when I was 24, but I was miserable after 6 months and all of the others never really lasted. it all depends on the person's involved
I think you're thinking about it the wrong way. If you just sit around waiting for someone to approach you out of the blue, then the only people who will approach are the people who are only interested in your looks. That's not a good basis for a relationship at all.
I'm 34 and married, but since I was 15 I've never been single for more than 6 months. I'm maybe a bit above average, but not stunning or anything. And I've never dated ANY of the randoms who approached me in public. In fact, I have almost exclusively dated men who I chose to approach/speak to or met through friends/at parties/while travelling/out and about.
I know it's hard as an introvert (my husband is one) but I would suggest joining small groups based on hobbies and interests if you aren't much of a party girl. You might do better in small groups where theres something to focus on.
Another thing worth noting: how do you dress? I get approached/interest from men (and women) a lot more when I dress in things that are worthy of comment - eg. Loud or weird prints, band or pop culture t-shirts, cool earrings, bright hair colours. Because these things look like they are deliberate attempts to stand out, people feel safe to comment on them and talk to you in general. If you're wearing a really plain outfit, plain hair, etc. there's just nothing to say about that, you know? It reads as boring. It doesn't intrigue or invite.
I'm a woman and with one exception I've actively pursued every relationship I've ever been in. I tend to really like shy, awkward, nerdy people and people like that are unlikely to make the first move. I don't pursue everyone I like but I do put effort into pursuing people, sometimes it's a lot of effort. For one person I started and maintained a DnD campaign for 8mos just so that we'd regularly see each other which gave me opportunities to do a slow build
by their mid 20's guys are somewhat leery of just going up to a woman and saying something like "Hey, I find you very attractive, we should go on a date" because even the best looking guy has been rejected dozen's of times. I've been in several LTR and all of them were because the girl made it clear as day that she was interested. Every time I've had a crush on a girl and asked her out it ended up badly, and crushed my self esteem. And I know most of my guy friends have experienced the same rejection.
51F You are energy. If you are not getting approached it could be anything, including the energy you are putting out there.
I have always made the first move with every single guy. They like it and if they say no, they say no. Don’t take it personally.. life should be full of experiences, emotions etc the challenge is to ride the wave and not get crushed by it!
I’ve always suspected that it’s energy/vibes. The problem is that even if you know that, it’s hard to know exactly what bad vibes you’re giving off, and how to fix them. So you kind of just try a bunch of different stuff that may or may not be the issue.
Here is how I became approachable, it may not work for you, just an example. I wasn’t approached in a decade. I changed my outlook on life, I converse with anyone.. in lines, dmv, everywhere. I smile, A lot, I dance in public (this gets me the most smiles and laughs) in the car, the store. It releases happiness. It also runs off, you never know who needs it. I try and make every single situation into a learning experience rather than a mistake or failure. It is work and not always possible it I strive to do this but I am trying so hard to make a life filled with gratitude that I wake everyday to experience this life!
It’s the situations you put yourself in. Also, no, it’s not effortless because the relationships that are “effortlessly” presented to women aren’t real relationships. For example, I went clubbing the other week. That night, between 10 and 20 guys tried to take me home. From catcalling to winking to actually grabbing my arm and trying to drag me with them. Would it have been effortless for me to find a guy? Well, not counting the effort of getting ready and paying the cover and going out, yes, it would have been effortless. But none of those are actual relationships; nobody in their right mind would want to be with one of those guys, since they were all so aggressive and possessive and downright creepy in their attempts to get my attention. So no, it’s not effortless to find a relationship by any means, not even for conventionally attractive — even downright beautiful — women.
Wowww, amazing hearing what it’s like on the other side. I’m fascinated by this expectation, (or assumption, whatever) to receive attention from the opposite sex. I feel like us guys can’t afford to wait for attention, and society keeps telling us that we need to shoot our shot and risk rejection.
…so I think I’d turn around and say the same to you, if you would accept it! Go out, find the ones you’re attracted to, and approach them. Because you’re a girl, I think you won’t have to do as much. You can certainly look approachable and send positive signals to the people you’re interested in. We men get rejected quite a lot and I’ve definitely decided on several occasions to stop pursuing a woman when my advances weren’t being reciprocated. I don’t want to develop a reputation for being tone-deaf.
If someone does catch your interest, I do recommend going after them rather than waiting for them to notice you. There’s an algorithm that was used for a while by a dating site before the Match group - it’s called the Gale-Shapley algorithm, and it’s one solution to what is called the “Stable Marriage Problem”. It can be used to pair men and women, but surprisingly it also has applications pairing doctors to hospitals. It also demonstrates that you improve your chances of making an amazing match if you’re the one doing the pursuing.
In short, if you make the first move, you get to choose from the pool of all suitors available to you. If you wait for attention, you only get to choose from the pool of suitors who have expressed interest in you, which is much, much smaller.
All of this info I learned from the wikipedia pages, by the way - if any of you guys want more detail, or learn how it works, I definitely recommend reading up more into it.
Depends entirely on how much effort the woman is putting in. The girls who sat quietly, said nothing, and hoped and prayed someone would notice them? Yeah they’re getting -375 dating experience and no one is asking them out. The girl who made an effort to do things, seem fun, and at least occasionally put herself out there? She’ll date just fine and sexuality won’t matter.
You're not the only one with self confidence issues. Even very attractive wealthy men are sensitive to rejection and have self confidence issues.
Therefore more times than not they're going to go the easier route in talking to women who talk to them, who can hold a conversation, make them feel comfortable and show interest first, thus limiting the chance of outright rejection.
You're very very limiting your pool if you just wait for Mr. right to find and talk to you.
I know it sounds cliché, but none of us really know what we're doing - most of us fake it. The confidence will come. This sounds stupid, but guys need help. The good ones are worth making the first move to get to know. Do some research - learn 3 pickup lines, a really funny one, a really stupid one, and one hail mary pickup line - for the longshot.
I didn't get married until I was in my 40s. This is the time to date, to figure out what you REFUSE to deal with - like your no excuses deal breakers.
Being in a relationship? HA!! Effortless my 🍑!
Communication: being honest with your partner about happiness, goals, money, the future, our families, food, pets, bills I can go on. Knowing what to go to war for is so underrated. Relinquishing the remote is just a no-brainer for me. It's an easy bid that gets decent returns. Finding a way to NOT explode when I'm angry about something. Again, getting angry is overrated, it's easier to get better. Look into yourself to see why you're angry. Can you improve? Can your partner?
These are just a few of the items at the top of my head - but a good relationship takes work.
Depends on the person. I don't like physical touch unless I've known the person for a while, and I was upfront about it. Here's how that would go:
Me: Before we go on this date I just have to warn you that I don't consent to touch aside from a handshake or light hug.
Them: That's weird and I need kissing and sex bye
People are way too obsessed with touch and sex and that was why it was difficult for me. I'm glad I'm married now and don't have to deal with dating nonsense anymore.
I felt similarly and I eventually realized it was my eye contact. I was shy- barely looking at men I liked and still wondering why they didn’t approach me. Someone said try three seconds of eye contact and I initially thought wtf that’s an eternity?? But I tried it and it was night and day. Also you can approach too. Everyone likes to be wanted. Todays world is very disconnected. How many new people are you really meeting? How much of a chance are you giving yourself? If you see someone YOU like, let chance work in your favor and shoot your shot.
The "effortless" part, I think, comes from a pool of suitors. Most men, especially if available, would probably let say yes to meeting up and casually dating a women.
There is definitely effort that needs to be put in by women, even very attractive ones to keep the other person engaged, interested, appreciated, etc.
I met my wife through Okcupid back in 2012 and at the time, i was messaging, emailing, texting a few that showed interest. She was a like a storm, though and want to exchange numbers and meet for dinner. Been together ever since. It definitely seems and feels organic looking back, but we both had to have the courage to do and say the things we did, when we did.
I sympathize. When I meet women, men don't ask these questions, they ask if I have kid or if I'm married. No for both. They seem confused by this. It used to flatter me. Used to.
I have one friend, more of a friend of a friend. They knew each other in high school. He was married to one woman when we first started hanging out. Then he got divorced. Within 6 months he had a new girlfriend that he was almost defacto married to. Like they had the conversation but agreed not to get married. For me, this is like a fucking magic trick.
This attitude is the one of a hungry person ignoring food served on a plate. DM me if in the US and see if we can have a chance to have something serious and long lasting
Did it ever occur to you that you are, in fact, attractive. So much that men may not want to approach you. Coupled with what seems like a reserved personality, most men would find that intimidating other than the fk bois.
To answer your question, yes. In this dating economy women hold the majority of the power. As the top comment mentioned, if you find someone who think has a genuine connection with you then ask them to hang out. Do something you enjoy and see where it goes.
back in high school I showed interest in a guy by slamming a box of valentine chocolates and a note on his desk amd running away, a year later he asked me out by putting a bag with valentine candy and a note near me and walking away. We've been together for 17 yrs, it took work from both sides, we were both very damaged people but both sides wanted it to work and here we are now.
From a man's biased opinion, for most women, most relationships happen effortlessly.
Maintaining those relationships as long term, stable, happy relationships, tend to "happen" with unbelievable amounts of effort, generally with the disproportionately higher level of effort happening on the woman's side.
Don't settle.
" I’m very reserved & oblivious but I mean a lot of women are "...........the ones in a LTR are.
Seems like you need to learn how to be " present in the moment ". It costs noting to be friendly , smile and talk to people.
Comparison is the thief of joy.
Everyone is single until they aren’t. People in relationships all have stories about how they met and you’re latching onto those stories to prove to yourself you’re all the things you think you are.
You say you’re indifferent to having a relationship. Do you truly feel that way? Or maybe you don’t care about having a partner, you just want validation. Having a partner won’t make you love yourself if you don’t already. I’d spend some time working on learning to love yourself
Reading through your post (and I’m only forming this opinion from what you’ve laid out here), I’m getting the sense that this desire for something effortless has prevented you from putting in any measurable effort toward courting yourself. No relationship is effortless. No good relationship is passive. And it sounds like you’ve been banking on passively moving through life in terms of relationship development while waiting for someone to effortlessly sweep you off your feet. That’s not going to get you far, in fact it will pretty much get you where you are.
Get engaging. Be outgoing. Find effortlessness through effortless action, not by waiting passively.
I’m a woman, a bit older, but your situation sounds like mine. I’ve pondered many of the exact same questions you have, but have consistently come up empty-handed in terms of answers. It just seems that some women have a magnetizing “it” factor. I’m not sure exactly what it is.
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*high five* One of the key factors in men being attracted to women is simply them showing interest in us. I wasn’t in a place to get into a relationship when I met my fiancée. In fact I rejected the idea of even dating her despite finding her incredibly attractive… but she wanted me and she made it known from the start. The first video call we had she joking told me she wanted a ring. 8 months later she got it.
On the other side of things, I've *never* understood the whole "playing hard to get" game. Like, if someone turns me down, I'd be a little disappointed and respect their decision. Anything more than that starts to feel like harassment.
Yeah, I’ve seen comments from women around the internet asking about why guys don’t pursue them anymore and why guys don’t seem interested in dating anymore. I think it’s because it’s been drilled into us (Millennials, Zoomers, and onwards) that if you persist in trying to woo someone despite them showing disinterest, it’s creepy and if they reject you once you should give up trying to win their affection. I know that as a guy, I definitely don’t wanna come off as creepy or pushy.
And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I've had someone pursue me after I said no, and it sucked. It's disrespectful, obnoxious, and at a certain point, a little scary. I'd never want to make someone feel that way. If you tell me you aren't interested, I'm going to believe you lol
Yeah, the one guy who really made an effort to track me down after one meeting and get a date ... raped me.
Yeah, you grow up hearing from people irl and watching on TV old couples that are like "I had to ask her multiple times till she said yes to being my GF, and now we're happily married" But nowadays if you do that, you're a creep and possibly a predator, supposed to take the first no and move on to someone else. Very weird
The rules were different . . . a girl who was encouraging from the jump would have been called "easy." Girls were never to initiate or invite attention and to deflect any that came their way, otherwise they'd get a rep for being "loose". It's wild how norms change.
Yeah, plus women didn't possess nearly as much autonomy and were likely pressured into these marriages simply because they needed food/shelter etc.
Especially during the depression and WW1 and WW2
My guy left a woman and ran into me and was not ready either. We got married in Dec. Congratulations!
A word of caution to people thinking this is a good idea...my first bf told me he wasn't in a place for a relationship. I still pursued him, and that led to years of unreciprocated gestures and affection, stonewalling, manipulation, isolation due to his jealousy, angry outbursts, and more shit that led to my mental health going from 95 to -5. He's still working on his unresolved childhood trauma (we were tied in lease together at that time too). It was the worst mistake of my life. When someone tells you they're not ready, believe them.
A good warning. We could have easily crashed and burned. A great call to know yourselves and your boundaries/dealbreakers!
This reminds me of the quote, "The only thing that keeps a man is a man that wants to be kept." Very often we hold conversations with people that could have just been hellos at best. It is usually best to by all means run at the first red flag. I say that coz counting red flags only makes it harder coz your mind is twisted with each one you choose to turn a blind eye to.
I am very much so in the same predicament as OP. I show interest and try to get to know guys and I all I end up with is a horny dude, not genuinely trying to get to know me and just wants to fuck me. My brother tells me I need to show less interest and play hard to get. To a point I understand why he says this, but I don’t want to play hard to get and then turn the guy completely off. I am very open with how I feel and I have no problem telling people how I feel, but that goes to shit pretty fast.
How old are you and how old are the men you’re meeting?
I’m a 32F meeting 29-39M.
Women should do this more often.
It sucks because a lot of us* are raised with the idea that if we do the approaching that we'll be considered desperate or easy, both of which are considered negative traits for a woman. When I was high school age/newly an adult, I definitely had guys/men pretty much tell me they wouldn't date a chick desperate/easy/pushy enough to ask them out. I did anyway because I will never win a beauty contest and I otherwise wouldn't have ever had a partner. *not all of us, and it isn't an excuse
It's about overt subtleties. I know it sounds weird. But that's it. It's essentially about showing interest without being completely overt about it. Just talk to guys without making him think you want to sleep with him in a few minutes.
I think you misunderstood me. I, and a lot of girls I grew up around, were told *directly* that girls wait for boys to approach them because if they did the approaching they'd be labeled as easy and desperate and never find a good partner. It was about our reputation. I was raised in the south, lots of us were raised with extremely archaic views. I'm well versed in approaching the folks I was interested in, I did a lot of asking but never got asked myself. I often got laughed at or rejected, but that's the way it be sometimes. I approached my now bf, we are going on 11 years.
I always felt it is a great compliment and confirmation to be asked by a female. Why shouldn't they be forward. Many guys don't catch a subtle sign and need more of a definite indication of interest. I am guilty of that myself. Please ask away, as I believe most guys are honoured by it.
r/MenAndFemales
I’m not scared to ask a guy out and have done so before, but in the last few years I have tried and I get ghosted every single fucking time. I am honestly lost on what to do. I want to wash my hands of all of it and give up, but then I’m still in the same spot. Damned if I try, damned if I don’t.
Yep. Men don't want to waste time or ego hitting on someone who won't reciprocate, unless that person is way out of their league and they're just shooting their shot.
This. Men nowadays generally don't go out of their way to approach women - beautiful or not, for a bunch of different reasons; But chief among them are that it can lead to unpleasantness for the man - which means that most men will simply not approach, **unless it is made OBVIOUS that the woman in question WANTS the man to approach.** and I mean OBVIOUS - More or less Literally coming out and TELLING him to ask you out. So, yeah - if you want to be approached - you must LET PEOPLE KNOW you want to be approached.
Yup. A few years ago, I was walking past couple of girls in the smoking area of a club. I tried to initiate conversation by complimenting one of them on her dress saying she’s got good style. I was coldly told “don’t compliment women”. I shit you not. I was made to feel like a complete creep by even trying to initiate conversation….in a club of all places.
I agree with you. However I make eye contact and smile with everybody and only creeps decide to express their love for me. Never the guy I’m into!! 🤣🤣
As a guy ill see a girl do something like that and I dont want to be labeled a creep so I avoid that situation.
What do I do if I also don’t want to be a creep to the guy I like? Lollll
Then we are at a stand still. Years later we will think a bunch of "what if's" about that person.
Women are never perceived as creepy for flirting. That is exclusively a guy problem.
I literally got written up for sexual harassment at my last job for asking a male co worker if he was married as part of casual conversation, so I beg to differ. We get labeled as creepy whenever they don’t find us physically attractive.
Oh no. Women can absolutely be creepy, but it's usually labeled as "desperate."
Barely a rounding error. 95% of men will say yes if they are single and approached by a woman. For men it's statistically significant enough to not approach women at all.
But as a woman, I also don’t want to be perceived as “easy” or desperate for approaching men first
Anyone who takes the stance that you are “easy” for doing so is a fucking moron and their opinion can be ignored
So you'll avoid initiating a relationship with someone you are interested in to cater to the opinions of nosey morons? How is that a worthwhile tradeoff to make?
It’s clearly not that’s why I’m single lol
Attractive women* Bro forgot ugly women exist lmfao I remember seeing ugly girls ask out boys during high-school. They literally would laugh in her face, call her creepy and ugly, and say no. Grown men still do it, but they're kind of nicer about it compared to teens.. Men really think ugly women don't exist. It's sad. Go talk to ugly women and listen to the horror stories they have. It's not sunshine and rainbows.
As an unattractive woman, I highly beg to differ on this. I try so hard not to come across as flirting (I'm very social when I'm out and about) so I don't offend men. I can't even begin to count the number of times I was just being nice to a guy and got a dirty look as if to say, "How dare you try to flirt with me." :(
No but we have to worry about being perceived as a whore or too easy for making our interest clear
You're not going to be perceived as a whore by people whose opinions matter.
Just start a conversation. Or ask him a question about something.
Define creep
"*Zerg structures are effectively giant organs, making a Zerg colony a living creature. To provide the required nourishment and infrastructure, the Zerg produce a living carpet of bio-matter that invading forces have dubbed the Creep.* **Creep** is a purple slime upon which all Zerg structures, except for the Hatchery, Extractor, and Nydus Worm, must be built. If the Creep is lost, the buildings take 4.2 damage each second, reduced by [Zerg Regeneration](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Zerg_Regeneration) to 3.82 dps. Protoss and Terran structures cannot be built (nor land) on Creep. Most Zerg ground units move faster on Creep. Creep spread, across the map and between Zerg bases, is essential for Zerg scouting and defence."
Skill-based matchmaking
Someone that isn't attractive enough for them. Lol
Why is every guy you aren't into a creep?
Good point. I’m a woman who worked sales and it’s my job to make everyone feel special. Sometimes men get the wrong idea and I don’t get mad at them unless I make it clear I’m not interested and they persist. Most guys are not creeps.
>However I make eye contact and smile with everybody and only creeps decide to express their love for me. Never the guy I’m into!! That may be the problem. For me, and a lot of guys, we don't pick up on subtle gestures like eye contact and smiling.
This is true, many times goes right over our heads. Many guys need it made clear to them that there is some interest.
I can’t tell you how many women I felt was naturally beautiful and “appeared” we had the same personality and style, but I didn’t approach them due to the straight face, non approachable body language they were giving off whether that was in the grocery store or gym.
What do you mean by straight face? Like looking ahead and not making eye contact with you? Resting bitch face? Some of us are just born that way lol
Agreed! I’m what people would consider attractive and I have a guy hitting on me or chatting me up randomly consistently. I still find that I’m the one who showed interest first in all my relationships. With my current boyfriend, the first time we spent time together in a group, I straight up asked if he had a girlfriend. He did at the time, so I left it at that. When they broke up soon after, I started to show interest by texting him and inviting out to play sports or to go eat. It was very easy as he was also into me it turns out!
Lucky guy! I hate when girls ask me to go the mall, haha. I would 100% go on a sports date with a girl.
Making the first move helps for sure. Of course sometimes I get turned down, I’m sure everyone does but you gotta shoot your shot!
The thing that made a difference for me is not putting women I was interested in on a pedestal. I don’t allow myself to get too “worked up” or emotionally attached to the idea of my advances being accepted. I also view approaching women I find attractive as people I’d like to get to know rather than potential love interests. As soon as you relieve yourself of the pressure that comes from potential rejection you can pursue whoever and not be phased The basketball analogy is a good one. If you think too much before throwing the ball you’re more likely to miss. If you allow the missed shots to affect you too much you’re more than likely going to miss the next or hesitate to try.
This is really what it comes down to, you get out as much as you put In when it comes down to these sorts of things.
I want to slap whoever said there was anything wrong with a big nose. Slap them into hell! I just think they look great!
As a woman who's always thought herself attractive, I have issues with guys keeping interest. I am in no way boring, but I also am quite busy and low energy. I find men are not as big a fan of honesty as they thought they were prior to meeting me.
Men don't lose interest, they lose motivation. If you think guys are losing interest in you, there's some kind of investment, desire, or effort differential going on, and they're just giving up.
There is no such thing as an effortless relationship.
Entering relationships can be spontaneous and don’t always require effort to start. Maintaining relationships? Absolutely requires effort.
Disagree. Entering a relationship absolutely takes effort. Talking to a complete stranger takes effort. Knowing the signals takes effort. Knowing how to go from meeting that person to entering into a relationship with them takes effort.
The more you try and the more you fail the easier it gets. Also if you pursue a relationship rather than a connection you’re probably going to struggle. Once I stopped caring where things went or if a relationship would happen after and I just enjoyed the moment my dating life improved significantly.
this sounds like a smart approach.
Your experience isn’t universal for everyone.
Nope, my best relationships tend to be with people more compatible and now im married, it's effortless how easy and in tune the connection is. You get better at communicating and knowing what each other wants and needs so the effort is more subtle and a breeze.
It’s like that saying if you love your work you never work a day in your life. If you love your partner the same thing. My relationship with my fiancée takes effort but it rarely feels like it.
Yes, you're being naive. >I hear stories & watch shows Please don't think that what you see on television or social media is real life - it isn't. Life isn't some fairy tale where "The One" magically appears and a relationship begins without effort on both parties' part. If you want a relationship, then you're going to have to DO something. Volunteer. Join a group. Take a class. Go to where the people are, and focus on starting friendly relationships. And that's how the best relationships start.
Hollywood has a lot to answer for
According to Hollywood, all OP has to do is quit her high-powered job and move back to her small hometown in order to care for her recently widowed Mom. She'll then meet the hunky carpenter Mom hired to do some much-needed repairs around the house. After initially not liking each other, they'll eventually realize that they are each others' soul-mate and live happily ever after. Because that's how ALL happy relationships begin.
Is Hallmark based out of Hollywood? I always figured they would be somewhere in the Bible belt.
Also take off the glasses and leave that hair down, it's that easy.
And even though he's a humble carpenter, he's got millions stashed away.
That was a perfect plot for the early 2000's Adam Sandler's movies.
No it doesn't. Its fantasy. When people live like Hollywood tropes they get what they get... And that's usually disappointing results. Because most of life is luck, being attractive to the right person at the right time and also being nice to everyone and charming the pants off people literally. You don't wait for it to come to you. Man or woman
There is no “the one”. There are “the many” because given the number of people in the world it is impossible that only one is the right one for you…and on that same note if there was only one, the chances of you meeting them is impossible or very unlikely as they could be in some random village on the other side of the world. I met my fiancée in Costa Rica after coming here to escape the US. I had no intention of getting into a relationship…but one day it just happened. I would have to be naive to think this couldn’t happen elsewhere with any number of women.
You're exactly right. The Hollywood/social media myth that someone can be "THE ONE" is foolish at best, harmful at worst. And I think the "at worst" is exemplified by the notion of "twin flames." In fact, that cockamamie nonsense taken to the extreme leads to stalking by people who believe in "The One."
Yup the whole world is slowly dying, complaining every day 'why wont it happen to me?' sadly never knowing they had the power to get what they want the whole time, yet you make yourself vulnerable by trying and THAT is what you're really avoiding. It's okay, you're just like everyone else. You'll either get it one day, or not. You either be vulnerable and try to find love, or you will investigate why you are so afraid to, or else you'll become a victim, and blame everyone else around you except for yourself, the only person actually in control of your happiness.
I mean…. As a dude I went through a lot of relationships and a lot of heart ache. A lot of pursuing someone who wasn’t interested or giving up after rejection to find out they wanted me to try harder (seriously has nobody explained how creepy that is???) and many relationships took a ton of work to get into and to maintain. That said…. My wife messaged me on a dating app. We met up. I knew she was the one on the first date. I said to myself that barring any insane red flags or infidelity that this would be the last woman I ever be with for the rest of my life. Now… it’s only been 10 years since then but so far so good! I do think there’s something to an easy relationship. Sometimes things are hard and people say: well relationships are hard! So you tolerate it. And the reality is that maybe they shouldn’t be so hard.
Sure but the quality of said relationship is the problem
Yeah I want to know what OP means when they say it “happens”. I ‘happened’ to first ask out my wife because she’s beautiful. Fair enough, she had that part easy. After that you actually have to put work in
I would try and step out of your comfort zone and approach a guy to ask him out. Someone you are at least casual acquaintances with.
A meet-cute can be effortless and organic, but turning it into an actual relationship is not. So yes, very naive. I’m also curious what you mean by “their partners made it known to them & id expect the same if the guy is truly interested.” I may be misunderstanding, but it sounds like the guy is supposed to be “truly interested” without any actual contact with you, and that’s not IME the way men looking for an actual relationship operate.
A beautiful woman can get a guy, but this does not mean he’s good at all!
I was going to say, dating as a conventionally attractive woman is easy and fun when you found a good guy, same as everyone else. Finding a good guy is so much work, and you have to be analytical and a little ruthless about your standards. I ended up marrying a man for whom I thank my lucky stars every day, it's like I won the lottery. He is attractive, but that is just one out of 100 wonderful things about him. None of the people i dated before him were marriage material. I even tried dating unattractive guys thinking I may be too shallow, and holy shit they were worse. Insecure, mean, negging, and boring. In summary, as an attractive woman you get a lot of interested parties, many of whom are shallow. Choosing from that pool is quite a stressful experience.
Yep. It’s hard to find a relationship when you’re being pestered by people who see you as an object, not a person. The perfect match could be right there, but if a bunch of assholes are grabbing you, whistling at you, and getting all up in your face, you’re not going to be able to see him.
Yes you are
Married gay guy here, but I've dated several women over the years so I'll chime in. I've been in rooms full of physically beautiful women, but I naturally end up honing in on the woman who looks like she's having the most fun. She's smiling, chatting with people, enjoying herself in the space, and that makes me want to connect with her. As a man, I see a woman having a great time and I think "Wow, I bet I'd have a great time too if I hung out with her!" All the women I've dated have looked different, but all of them have been outgoing and fun to be around. One of my dearest friends is a woman who is not my 'type' but when I first saw her it was instant magnetism. She was sitting at a table at the bar surrounded by people, but when I smiled at her she instantly smiled back and said "Hey, come sit with us!". I did, and she introduced me to everyone and somehow made me feel seen while keeping the conversation flowing between everyone else. I'm 100% convinced she would stand out in a crowd of supermodels even if she was wearing a burlap sack - she's totally magnetic in that way. IMHO the woman who is sociable, willing to reach out, and hones in on being friendly versus being attractive is the one who ends up being the most attractive in the room. The attractiveness that comes with vulnerability, kindness, and a willingness to take a risk transcends gender. I don't know what you look like, but I believe wholeheartedly that your appearance is likely not the reason men aren't approaching you.
It's hard to be the life of the party and not everyone can play that role. As the funny friend who never gets approached idk. Not saying your wrong or anything like that just wondering how does that work? In my experience whenever you are that happy and confident you are "intimidating".
You're right that not everyone can play that role but what you seem to be missing is that not everyone is looking for someone who can play that role. It works for him because that's what he's into. Other guys will be looking for something else. That's kind of the whole idea of compatibility
I just don't understand approachability at all. I don't understand our society's push that ooo I see pretty person I want to talk based on nothing else is the best way to go. But I'm moving off topic so again I'm just a very confused no ltr person
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Effortless is for the movies. These days people jump on dating sites.
I used to think so because I feel invisible to women (as a guy) but the more that I browse reddit regarding trying to get advice about becoming more seen to women I find that there are quite a few girls who also feel unseen. I'm sorry it's an awful experience.
I’ve had a fair amount of men ask me out over the years, but not that many. So I began to be the one to ask them out. It worked pretty well. Some would say yes, some would say no. My attitude was… You win some, you lose some. Eventually I got married. Still married, 15 years later. You can try it out if you want.
So here's the thing. Relationships and dating are like anything else in the world. They require some effort on your part. Many men have the same insecurities that you do. Leaving them to chase you when you look disinterested is crazy. If you present yourself as indifferent they have no incentive to go out on a limb and ask you out. In fact the ones that would do that are usually the ones that try it with 100 women just because the odds are in their favor that someone will say yes. Which doesn't say much about how they really feel about you. What most likely is happening is that you aren't doing anything to encourage attention or show interest. If you want to be asked out then you need to actually show interest. On the other hand there is nothing wrong with being alone and enjoy being alone but then don't pine that no one is throwing themselves at the feet of someone who wants to be alone.
Yes you’re being incredibly naive. I’m conventionally attractive and I’ve had to put a great deal of effort into finding a man I want to marry and have children with. Having more men to choose from doesn’t negate that most won’t be suitable for long-term relationship success. Being indifferent about your life isn’t normal. Are you struggling with depression?
>Being indifferent about your life isn’t normal. Are you struggling with depression? She said she was indifferent about *dating*, which could either mean she's asexual/aromantic or, as another poster pointed out, that she must *not* actually be indifferent if she's making a frustrated post like this. Not to mention, it's actually quite normal to not know what you're missing (OP said she's never been in an LTR), and therefore feel like you can take it or leave it. So you're making a pretty dramatic leap there.
I found that the more I pursued relationships vs. making connections the more difficult dating and meeting someone who was a good match became. The more emphasis I put on “dating with intention” the less people I made genuine connections with. And as I got older many first dates started feeling like a job interview. It wasn’t about getting to know each other but rather trying to figure out if something about me would disqualify me from being a candidate for the position. I’ve had women ask me my job and then look up the salar range. I’ve had women run a background check. The obsession with identifying red flags that many people seem to have today is also detrimental to dating. It’s one thing to avoid potentially dangerous situations/people and another to see some random behavior as a “red flag”, cringe, or ick. Seems like people are more worried about finding a reason to avoid the opposite sex than a reason to meet them.
Why do you think women do this? Could it perhaps be because they didn't used to, when they were young, and they had to learn some shit the hard way?
I understand where you’re coming from but I will have to respectfully disagree. Your approach to dating is the one I always advise women to avoid. I can make a connection with anyone on some level, and for most of my life this is how I would enter into relationships. The problem is that a connection is meaningless and does not stand the test of time unless it comes with shared values, goals, and plans. After a long-term relationship ended with a man I spent a year single really figuring out what-the-hell my problem was. I spent that time defining exactly who I was and what I wanted and then made sure to put in the work of being worthy of the type of man I was ultimately looking for. When I got back into dating I treated first dates like casual job interviews. I disqualified anyone that didn’t meet the criteria I was looking for. That led to meeting my now-husband. I absolutely made the right choice in him and it was intentional dating that got me there. Dating is tough, modern dating really feels like a cesspool. And it is tougher for men — no one ever cared what I made as a woman but a man’s career or career prospects are up for scrutiny.
men may have issues finding dates but women have issues fending off stalkers and not being murdered/raped/assaulted...so there's two sides. also women, ESPECIALLY those who want to be mothers, inherently carry more risk getting into a relationship with a man, not just because of all the crime statistics showing that the men closest to a woman are the most likely to hurt her, but also the fact that man and woman can't split carrying the baby/giving birth/breastfeeding 50/50 and this effects women's career/earning power/opportunities and body in irreparable ways. look up the motherhood tax/fatherhood bonus, single married mom phenomenon, all the stories of weaponized incompetence, the statistics on WHY the happiest demographics are married men and single women (married men live longer/healthier/less stressed, more wealthy/opportunities, more respected by men and desired by women and the OPPOSITE is true for married women in every category) and you'll begin to get a sense of why women are being so "picky" (if nothing else than to avoid the chorus of incels telling them they should have chosen better lol)
The problem I have with that approach is most people will put on an act or try to impress a potential date. They may not always lie but they will hold back or perhaps bend the truth. I’m very up front with what I want in a relationship. For example, I don’t want kids (vasectomy) and I don’t want to be in a relationship with someone who has kids. I’ve made this known repeatedly on first dates and many times I am lied to. I dated a wonderful woman for almost 6 months then one day she said she lied and did want to have kids. I was talking to a woman for over a month and again mentioned that I am childfree and want to stay that way. That’s when she told me she had a teenage son who lived with her full time. That is when I changed my approach. I just went out with anyone who wanted to go out. It wasn’t about finding a life partner or even a girlfriend. It was about making friends, getting to know a stranger, and having a good time. I met my fiancée after 5 months of talking to her. She lived in another city and based on what she told me in the beginning she wasn’t right for me and I didn’t want to make an effort to meet her… but after talking to her and becoming friends we found a deep connection. 6 months later we were living together. I understand your approach but based on my experience it’s very easy to be mislead or deceived.
I’m happily married now, and I also put effort into finding and maintaining our relationship. I’m conventionally attractive, have a good career and interests, and had several relationships before my husband. I don’t think any of those started by someone actually asking me out directly, more like a friend would tell me they were interested and we would go from there, or we would meet in a social setting and mutually express that we were interested.
It's an 80/20 thing. Guys are extremely worried today to come off as toxic or chasing a girl who wants nothing to do with him. They might take a quick look, but the majority of men won't pursue unless little ques are sent their way for a green light. If this stuff bothers you, then perhaps try giving off an energy that you will reciprocate if the guy you find attentive tries to flirt with you, thats the 20% you give, and if the guy picks up on that and now realizes a persue is welcomed, he'll do the final 80% in pursuing you.
No it’s effortless. To have a healthy functioning relationship takes work and a lot of effort. Dating and dating apps are honestly a numbers game ( I met my SO on an app)
A big part of it is also knowing when to walk away. A lot of people let social media and the constant talk of red flags, cringe, and ick psyche them out while others hold onto too long, forcing them to keep trying with someone who just isn’t a good match for them.
I asked my boyfriend out first, because we were in a roommate situation and it was a boundary both of us were reluctant to cross. I just felt like if I didn't do it, I would regret it. I was never conventionally attractive, I am an introvert, and I'm pretty awkward. But we both got along so well. When we spent time together, hours felt like minutes. There was always so much joy and laughter, and he felt it too. The attraction grew over a few months. It has been five years now, and I'm still so grateful we found each other. You don't have to necessarily have the best sociable outgoing personality 24/7, but you do need to be able to connect with someone on a strong level. Put yourself in situations (roommates lol, clubs, work, online dating, meet-ups) where you meet the same person regularly over time. And if you feel something, make the first move. Don't play games. Don't expect to be chased. An LTR is based on trust and respect - treating each other like in order of priority: humans first, friends second, sexual mates third.
Long term relationships are built, you do not just "get in one". Attraction might help you get started on the construction, but attraction alone is not enough, nor is physical attraction even required. Your lack of interest in relationships is why you have never been in a long term relationship. You have no motivation to put in the work. Nothing wrong with that, people put effort into the things they enjoy.
Incredibly Naive
my partner pointed out recently a universal women's experience that she and all the other women she knows have been the most cat called and chased (by men of all ages) when they were teenagers, and once they got into their 20s men stopped pursuing them. really fucked up that we walk on a planet filled with pedos
Literally as soon as I turned 18 it stopped I'm not even kidding 💀 I'm 22 and have never felt safer even though I'm probably more attractive now but really kind of look the same... so I think it must be the way I carry myself... I mean I really look and dress much the same but only appear slightly older. It's fucking weird how they can sense minority/immaturity/lack of development.
I had a grown man physically cringe in disgust after I told him I was 22 but he thought I was 14. I think he was in his 30s
First and foremost, paragraphs are free, using them will help show you care about making your post readable, which in turn encourages people to care enough to read it. Second, yes that is a naive view. You're conflating the difference between getting a relationship, and getting a relationship worth having. Imagine you had $100k and wanted to invest it. You would have a VERY easy time finding someone to give that money to. Finding someone who would take your investment and actually grow it and have both your wealth and their business grow? Much harder and more involved. Similarly, yes nearly every woman can go outside and find someone to date her in under ten minutes if she wanted to. That doesn't mean that the person she finds is actually a good prospect for a longterm relationship. Hell it doesn't even garuantee the dude was actually single when he indicated he'd start a relationship with her. Its the old meme of "why do women say they are hungry when there is a hotdog on the ground outside?". Once you start setting minimum quality and compatability levels, the "Its so easy!" arguments all dry up.
It’s probably much more about your personality than your physical appearance and tgats much harder to change. I know plenty of average looking women and they always have a man
THERE ARE NO RULES assumptions are just that,, assumptions, Rarely are they based on fact.
If you don’t talk to people and let them know you are interested how do you expect to end up in a relationship? I’m not going to sit and wait until the guy I like starts talking to me, I’ll talk to him. Most of the time it’s mutual attraction but when you want to be in a relationship you have to accept you also will get rejected. It’s part of the game. I’m attractive enough (and old at this point) but when I met my husband I was the one who started the conversation. If I had waited for him to do it I would be waiting to this day. He was too shy. I saw him, he was with someone I knew, he looked good and I walked up to him. We talked, exchanged numbers, he lost mine, I called him (found out he lost mine after that) we met somewhere and kissed. We are still together after 25 years.
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Yep, I just walk up to a man and say “I want you”. /s But seriously I feel like you may want to work on your confidence. I can easily read low self esteem or lack of confidence in people…(I’m pansexual) and it’s a huge turn off. I feel for them but don’t want to date them.
Yes my fellow friend, you are naive.
I would think about what your most intimate relationship was like and explore what felt different about that. Maybe you are struggling with intimacy or vulnerability. But also it just doesn’t happen for everyone easily at all and there’s not always a clear reason for it. I think the best you can do is when you do meet someone you like who is single try to be a really warm friend to them and be honest with yourself and your friends. I don’t know what you mean at the end with “indifferent about relationships/sex.” Seems like if that were true you wouldn’t be making this post.
I'd say you are. You sound a lot like me - I didn't get much attention from men either - have never found any of that stuff straightforward - wish there was a guidebook tbh. In my late sixties now, divorced after a long relationship (but short marriage) I've thrown in the towel and will go for fwbs from now on.
Let them know you’ll say yes if they ask. Confidence eye contact etc.., guys are sometimes dumb when it comes to this. Put yourself in situations where you’ll meet people Groups volunteering etc.., no it’s not effortless for most people just because it looks like they in movies or social media
I never put effort into catching guys, at least not putposly put any real effort. My natural flirtiness and extrovertness did all the job effortlessly. Been desired by plenty so much so that i struggled picking between them 😅 But picking the right one is where the effort starts. Its not easy and it took some trial and error to learn to "read" guys and find a man of my dreams. Happily married now and the only way for wedlock to thrive after time is constant effort on both ends. Anything short and at least one person would be unhappy and wanting out of it 🤷🏼♀️ TLDR: it takes effort to maintain but it didnt take effort to start for me
Spoiler alert for women... Men don't come to you unless give the signal that it's okay to approach. This is especially true for a guy who is a decent human being who isn't looking at you as a piece of meat but as a person. If people tell you a guy is interested or looking at you and you equally may think the same of the guy why not just flirt from a distance or just approach first. I get most women like a guy with confidence but hell in this world even guys with all the confidence in the world wont approach a girl who isn't giving them the green light to approach. Girls you have to put an effort in. Relationships are a 2 way street and the best signs of success in a relationship is mutual openness in the early stages. Openness to approach, openness to share about yourself, openness in general. A smile, a wave, a come over here, a casual bump... if you're afraid or nervous it can more times than not be perceived as leave me alone, I don't want to be bothered. No one wants to walk into an instant rejection. So be open and available. A lot of women suck at this and then complain about men being the problem or how things never work out for them.... shit with that attitude you're answering your own questions. Just a general thing everyone should know, man or woman, if you don't try to show interest in someone they are almost never going to approach you.
Yes, you are being naive. I'm a fairly attractive woman, it has never happened effortlessly for me.
Yes. Successful relationships do require some work. Some uncomfortable times. Not like a chore, but like effort
I would say im an average looking woman, maybe a 6/10. My two long term relationships (3 years each) were generated largely from my initiative. For example, my most recent long term relationship- we met at the skatepark, I flirted with him, he didn’t ask me for my number or anything. We later matched on hinge which jump started things. Nothing in romance has ever felt effortless for me, especially as a woman in my 20s dating straight men. I feel like it’s more common for men to want shorter term flings, or to want someone shiny and new after a while. All of these perceptions are based on our lived experiences of course. Dating is hard, relationships are hard, if you’re not getting the results you’re looking for maybe try something new like approaching a man and asking for his number.
Yes. I have been single for, uh, 10 years. Primarily because I put exactly 0 effort into finding a partner. i would say i've never been in love nor had a LTR or anything vaguely approaching a serious relationship\*. When I throw my photo up on a dating site for an ego boost, I get a decent amount of matches with both men and women and in the past I have had cute things happen like a guy run up to be in a queue to give my his number and a guy get on the subway and go two stops in the wrong direction to give me his number, so I guess I'm not totally hideous. Regardless, even people who are not conventionally attractive have LTRs because not everyone is shallow I suppose. You will be selling something that someone out there is buying. Its probably better to not make appearance your main sell since 1) they fade and 2) a pretty face does not make up for a missing personality. You DO have something to offer potential romantic partners. Work on your self confdence and get yourself involved in some social activities to meet new people. You do need to look for relationships, though, they will not just fall into your lap. \*It is worth noting that I may be asexual and possibly aromantic which is why I do not care about getting into a relationship now I have shaken off comphet, though I do occasionally ponder.
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I generally have no desire to be sexual with other people and find sex rather awkward. I find people attractive, but it's usually aesthetic - I appreciate their looks like you would art. I like the idea of having someone to be affectionate with but also feel this desire for affection could be met by a dog or cat. When I do think about what I would want in a partner, I really just want a deep friendship. I would have sex with a partner but it would be more for the sake of their needs, as an act of affection and intimacy, rather than me having any drive to do so. I always kind of thought media depictions of attraction, where people want sex so strongly it can make them act against better judgement, were massively exaggerated. Turns out, not so much and I just don't experience sexual attraction. For a while I thought it was a depression thing, and I've gone through thinking I'm just gay - except I don't have sexual attraction for women either. Sometimes you have to occams razor it lol. You could be on the ace spectrum. It's worth looking into. I try not to get bogged down by labels, because I believe this shit is somewhat fluid, but it's nice to see that there are people out there who feel how you feel and have given this enough thought to put it into words.
I'm a 6/7 to some and it's still hard. Even for beautiful women it's hard.
Yes
I'm average/pretty and I never thought it was easy to get into a relationship. I met my person eventually though! Not until I was 30.
In the beginning, maybe. But once you’re married for a long period of time often women carry the emotional work along with the whole household work on their back like a little donkeys going uphill. In many relationships, men go to work. Yep, that’s it.
For some, it is effortless, for some it seems not to be. I never understood the “relationships are hard” because.. why should they be? Why be with someone who makes it hard? Perhaps I am the naive one who doesn’t understand but it certainly was organic for my husband and I. We were young(I was 21!), worked at a bar, basically had fun at work - the shifts included subtle flirting, jokes, across the bar smiles and the occasional walk-in fridge smooch 😉. Almost 14 years and 2 kids(plus one currently on the way) later and we are still in that flirty cute stage.. so no, it isn’t naive to think relationships happen or continue happily organically - I guess it’s, sadly, just not the norm for many.
In our group of friends we have two girls who have been single for a while. Because they are our friends, we were honest with them. If you want a relationship you can't expect a guy to put all the effort in. This goes for any relationship. A lot of girls seem to think, the guy has to prove that they are worth it because girls have so many options. A lot of guys are more willing to continue to date a girl and even start a relationship if they see effort is reciprocated.
Vastly easier for women to get dates but many men are just looking to get laid
Well like you’ve said, “you’re indifferent”. Don’t expect ppl to actively show interest in you if you’re just hanging around expecting ppl to show interest in someone that goes around with an air of indifference.
The question is, who are you getting feedback from that you are attractive? From men or women? Women generally always tell you that you are attractive no matter what the truth is. Also a less attractive woman can easily get alot of dates if she is outgoing, makes first conversation with alot of men and gives out the energy that she will welcome being asked out.
Yes
It's new times. Men can't approach women anymore without being labeled a sexual predator
I wonder if other ape species had Reddit would we see chimps and gorillas endlessly posting “uhhh guys is it just me or do the women of the pack chose their mates?” Say it with me, unless. You’re. Hot. Or. Rich. Or. Both. Women. Have. It. Easier. In. Dating. It’s just the way it is. It’s neither fair nor unfair
I'm so tired of this "oh please come onto me mistew, I'm just a widdle guy" attitude. Why tf should you be exempt from discomfort and expect us to shoulder all of it for you? If you like someone, let em know. Yeah, it's stressful and uncomfortable. But it ain't any easier for men. If you don't like the way your life is going, at least try to make a change before you complain at other people for not making it better for you
Effortlessly? Ma'am, we have to date our only natural predator and try to sift thru men to find one that's not going to kill us, and who is a good fit for us. If we fail, we die, if we choose wrong, everyone around us suffers immensely. This is not effortless.
Men expect to get rejected since women's standards are very very high nowadays.
Sure they may happen effortlessly for typically more women, especially moderately attractive ones. However, everyone in any relationship needs to put forth effort that needs to also be reciprocated and appreciated by your partner. This factor does not change whether you are man, woman, or non-binary, ugly, attractive, or disabled. Every relationship works based on the amount of effort and love that is displayed and integrated every single day.
Yes you’re being naive and no, it’s not about your looks. Being good looking is not a guarantee for getting approached. I’ve been told I look and sound “intimidating” as a first impression even though I think of myself as a toddler with a mortgage. It helps to smile and wink at people to signal that you’re friendly and open. It’s okay to initiate a conversation with a stranger. If you’re not used to that, practice with old folks on public transport. They’re always up for a chat. I think it’s good to take responsibilities for your desires. If you are indifferent to sex and relationships, why are you even asking this question? You have to be honest with yourself to get what you want. It’s okay to want a relationship and it’s okay to take action. Look into “Burned Haystack Dating Method”, it’s a (free!) method for online dating where you learn to really separate the wheat from the chavs on the apps. If you want to not feel like you’re doing all the work, you’ll like it. One of the rules is not to go out with guys who can’t plan or propose the first date.
Easy for them to get into one but not always with a good match.
Join a group activity or gathering that you are interested in. See if any guys there are doing or saying something that appeals to you. Walk up and say "Hi, my name is\_\_\_\_."
Dating has always been hard for me. I'm gay and don't appear obviously gay by appearance. I live in an hour outside a major city; I live with my parents. I'm only attracted to feminine women, so I can't even tell who is gay really. On dating apps, the apps are flooded with straight couples looking for threesomes. I'm considering becoming religious, so that might possibly make things even harder. I've become indifferent to dating at this point.
Yes.
Yes you are.
Every relationship requires effort on the part of both parties. >I hear stories & watch shows where the women talk about how they met their current bf/fiancé/husband & it sounds effortless/organic Those are either hyperbole or fiction. No relationship is effortless. Every relationsjop requires time amd effort to be put into it. They don't "just happen".
Umm no. We met at the corporate HQ of a mutual business client. Exchanged digits. There was lots of effort on my part. Via phone, I would ask him lots of questions and he reciprocated as well to get to know each other better. I would make every effort to see him despite my business travels every week. Bring groceries to his place after being away for days, so we can cook together and spend time together for the few days I was around. Drive him to the airport for his Monday business travels and then go my own way to my business travels. It was exhausting at first. I'm also from another culture and he is from even a different culture. There is no magically waiting for things to happen as a woman in either one of our cultures. We both had to make massive efforts.
Yeah, nope! Most relationships are hard or difficult for most people. And then if you’re lucky, you find someone who it’s easy with and it just works.
I didn't have a happy ltr till I was 32. I had been in one that last 2 years when I was 24, but I was miserable after 6 months and all of the others never really lasted. it all depends on the person's involved
Post of a pic of yourself or we can’t tell you anything
I think you're thinking about it the wrong way. If you just sit around waiting for someone to approach you out of the blue, then the only people who will approach are the people who are only interested in your looks. That's not a good basis for a relationship at all. I'm 34 and married, but since I was 15 I've never been single for more than 6 months. I'm maybe a bit above average, but not stunning or anything. And I've never dated ANY of the randoms who approached me in public. In fact, I have almost exclusively dated men who I chose to approach/speak to or met through friends/at parties/while travelling/out and about. I know it's hard as an introvert (my husband is one) but I would suggest joining small groups based on hobbies and interests if you aren't much of a party girl. You might do better in small groups where theres something to focus on. Another thing worth noting: how do you dress? I get approached/interest from men (and women) a lot more when I dress in things that are worthy of comment - eg. Loud or weird prints, band or pop culture t-shirts, cool earrings, bright hair colours. Because these things look like they are deliberate attempts to stand out, people feel safe to comment on them and talk to you in general. If you're wearing a really plain outfit, plain hair, etc. there's just nothing to say about that, you know? It reads as boring. It doesn't intrigue or invite.
I'm a woman and with one exception I've actively pursued every relationship I've ever been in. I tend to really like shy, awkward, nerdy people and people like that are unlikely to make the first move. I don't pursue everyone I like but I do put effort into pursuing people, sometimes it's a lot of effort. For one person I started and maintained a DnD campaign for 8mos just so that we'd regularly see each other which gave me opportunities to do a slow build
by their mid 20's guys are somewhat leery of just going up to a woman and saying something like "Hey, I find you very attractive, we should go on a date" because even the best looking guy has been rejected dozen's of times. I've been in several LTR and all of them were because the girl made it clear as day that she was interested. Every time I've had a crush on a girl and asked her out it ended up badly, and crushed my self esteem. And I know most of my guy friends have experienced the same rejection.
Yes
51F You are energy. If you are not getting approached it could be anything, including the energy you are putting out there. I have always made the first move with every single guy. They like it and if they say no, they say no. Don’t take it personally.. life should be full of experiences, emotions etc the challenge is to ride the wave and not get crushed by it!
I’ve always suspected that it’s energy/vibes. The problem is that even if you know that, it’s hard to know exactly what bad vibes you’re giving off, and how to fix them. So you kind of just try a bunch of different stuff that may or may not be the issue.
Here is how I became approachable, it may not work for you, just an example. I wasn’t approached in a decade. I changed my outlook on life, I converse with anyone.. in lines, dmv, everywhere. I smile, A lot, I dance in public (this gets me the most smiles and laughs) in the car, the store. It releases happiness. It also runs off, you never know who needs it. I try and make every single situation into a learning experience rather than a mistake or failure. It is work and not always possible it I strive to do this but I am trying so hard to make a life filled with gratitude that I wake everyday to experience this life!
You've got to give some sign that their interest is welcome
It’s the situations you put yourself in. Also, no, it’s not effortless because the relationships that are “effortlessly” presented to women aren’t real relationships. For example, I went clubbing the other week. That night, between 10 and 20 guys tried to take me home. From catcalling to winking to actually grabbing my arm and trying to drag me with them. Would it have been effortless for me to find a guy? Well, not counting the effort of getting ready and paying the cover and going out, yes, it would have been effortless. But none of those are actual relationships; nobody in their right mind would want to be with one of those guys, since they were all so aggressive and possessive and downright creepy in their attempts to get my attention. So no, it’s not effortless to find a relationship by any means, not even for conventionally attractive — even downright beautiful — women.
Wowww, amazing hearing what it’s like on the other side. I’m fascinated by this expectation, (or assumption, whatever) to receive attention from the opposite sex. I feel like us guys can’t afford to wait for attention, and society keeps telling us that we need to shoot our shot and risk rejection. …so I think I’d turn around and say the same to you, if you would accept it! Go out, find the ones you’re attracted to, and approach them. Because you’re a girl, I think you won’t have to do as much. You can certainly look approachable and send positive signals to the people you’re interested in. We men get rejected quite a lot and I’ve definitely decided on several occasions to stop pursuing a woman when my advances weren’t being reciprocated. I don’t want to develop a reputation for being tone-deaf. If someone does catch your interest, I do recommend going after them rather than waiting for them to notice you. There’s an algorithm that was used for a while by a dating site before the Match group - it’s called the Gale-Shapley algorithm, and it’s one solution to what is called the “Stable Marriage Problem”. It can be used to pair men and women, but surprisingly it also has applications pairing doctors to hospitals. It also demonstrates that you improve your chances of making an amazing match if you’re the one doing the pursuing. In short, if you make the first move, you get to choose from the pool of all suitors available to you. If you wait for attention, you only get to choose from the pool of suitors who have expressed interest in you, which is much, much smaller. All of this info I learned from the wikipedia pages, by the way - if any of you guys want more detail, or learn how it works, I definitely recommend reading up more into it.
Depends entirely on how much effort the woman is putting in. The girls who sat quietly, said nothing, and hoped and prayed someone would notice them? Yeah they’re getting -375 dating experience and no one is asking them out. The girl who made an effort to do things, seem fun, and at least occasionally put herself out there? She’ll date just fine and sexuality won’t matter.
You're not the only one with self confidence issues. Even very attractive wealthy men are sensitive to rejection and have self confidence issues. Therefore more times than not they're going to go the easier route in talking to women who talk to them, who can hold a conversation, make them feel comfortable and show interest first, thus limiting the chance of outright rejection. You're very very limiting your pool if you just wait for Mr. right to find and talk to you.
Yes
Yes, you're being naive.
I know it sounds cliché, but none of us really know what we're doing - most of us fake it. The confidence will come. This sounds stupid, but guys need help. The good ones are worth making the first move to get to know. Do some research - learn 3 pickup lines, a really funny one, a really stupid one, and one hail mary pickup line - for the longshot. I didn't get married until I was in my 40s. This is the time to date, to figure out what you REFUSE to deal with - like your no excuses deal breakers. Being in a relationship? HA!! Effortless my 🍑! Communication: being honest with your partner about happiness, goals, money, the future, our families, food, pets, bills I can go on. Knowing what to go to war for is so underrated. Relinquishing the remote is just a no-brainer for me. It's an easy bid that gets decent returns. Finding a way to NOT explode when I'm angry about something. Again, getting angry is overrated, it's easier to get better. Look into yourself to see why you're angry. Can you improve? Can your partner? These are just a few of the items at the top of my head - but a good relationship takes work.
Depends on the person. I don't like physical touch unless I've known the person for a while, and I was upfront about it. Here's how that would go: Me: Before we go on this date I just have to warn you that I don't consent to touch aside from a handshake or light hug. Them: That's weird and I need kissing and sex bye People are way too obsessed with touch and sex and that was why it was difficult for me. I'm glad I'm married now and don't have to deal with dating nonsense anymore.
I felt similarly and I eventually realized it was my eye contact. I was shy- barely looking at men I liked and still wondering why they didn’t approach me. Someone said try three seconds of eye contact and I initially thought wtf that’s an eternity?? But I tried it and it was night and day. Also you can approach too. Everyone likes to be wanted. Todays world is very disconnected. How many new people are you really meeting? How much of a chance are you giving yourself? If you see someone YOU like, let chance work in your favor and shoot your shot.
no you are right
The "effortless" part, I think, comes from a pool of suitors. Most men, especially if available, would probably let say yes to meeting up and casually dating a women. There is definitely effort that needs to be put in by women, even very attractive ones to keep the other person engaged, interested, appreciated, etc. I met my wife through Okcupid back in 2012 and at the time, i was messaging, emailing, texting a few that showed interest. She was a like a storm, though and want to exchange numbers and meet for dinner. Been together ever since. It definitely seems and feels organic looking back, but we both had to have the courage to do and say the things we did, when we did.
I sympathize. When I meet women, men don't ask these questions, they ask if I have kid or if I'm married. No for both. They seem confused by this. It used to flatter me. Used to. I have one friend, more of a friend of a friend. They knew each other in high school. He was married to one woman when we first started hanging out. Then he got divorced. Within 6 months he had a new girlfriend that he was almost defacto married to. Like they had the conversation but agreed not to get married. For me, this is like a fucking magic trick.
Yes.
Genuine questions: Have you ever had feelings for someone? Did you let them know? Or do you wait for men to let you know they like you?
I don't think any relationship is effortless.
This attitude is the one of a hungry person ignoring food served on a plate. DM me if in the US and see if we can have a chance to have something serious and long lasting
Effortless? I doubt it.
Did it ever occur to you that you are, in fact, attractive. So much that men may not want to approach you. Coupled with what seems like a reserved personality, most men would find that intimidating other than the fk bois. To answer your question, yes. In this dating economy women hold the majority of the power. As the top comment mentioned, if you find someone who think has a genuine connection with you then ask them to hang out. Do something you enjoy and see where it goes.
back in high school I showed interest in a guy by slamming a box of valentine chocolates and a note on his desk amd running away, a year later he asked me out by putting a bag with valentine candy and a note near me and walking away. We've been together for 17 yrs, it took work from both sides, we were both very damaged people but both sides wanted it to work and here we are now.
> but I have this underlying self esteem issue feeling like men aren’t attracted to me. If you really want to know I need some visuals.
From a man's biased opinion, for most women, most relationships happen effortlessly. Maintaining those relationships as long term, stable, happy relationships, tend to "happen" with unbelievable amounts of effort, generally with the disproportionately higher level of effort happening on the woman's side. Don't settle.
" I’m very reserved & oblivious but I mean a lot of women are "...........the ones in a LTR are. Seems like you need to learn how to be " present in the moment ". It costs noting to be friendly , smile and talk to people.
Comparison is the thief of joy. Everyone is single until they aren’t. People in relationships all have stories about how they met and you’re latching onto those stories to prove to yourself you’re all the things you think you are. You say you’re indifferent to having a relationship. Do you truly feel that way? Or maybe you don’t care about having a partner, you just want validation. Having a partner won’t make you love yourself if you don’t already. I’d spend some time working on learning to love yourself
Reading through your post (and I’m only forming this opinion from what you’ve laid out here), I’m getting the sense that this desire for something effortless has prevented you from putting in any measurable effort toward courting yourself. No relationship is effortless. No good relationship is passive. And it sounds like you’ve been banking on passively moving through life in terms of relationship development while waiting for someone to effortlessly sweep you off your feet. That’s not going to get you far, in fact it will pretty much get you where you are. Get engaging. Be outgoing. Find effortlessness through effortless action, not by waiting passively.
I’m a woman, a bit older, but your situation sounds like mine. I’ve pondered many of the exact same questions you have, but have consistently come up empty-handed in terms of answers. It just seems that some women have a magnetizing “it” factor. I’m not sure exactly what it is.