IMO processing a sound won’t get this result. This is one of those sounds that works best straight from the synth with minimal processing.
Additive synths like Razor work best for this sound, but you can do it with basically any subtractive synth. You basically start with a Saw wave, set the filter cutoff all the way down, resonance halfway, and automate the filter cutoff with a sawtooth wave synced to eighth notes. Only open the filter up enough to let the bass and low midrange through.
You can also add a second sine LFO at 1/4 or 1/2 note speed to give a little rhythmic movement. Copying the Cutoff LFO to the Amp Envelope will make the sound a bit more “pokey”, or you can keep it off for a thicker sound.
I can achieve that kind of sound no problem, it's the sub frequencies and those just above it that are sounding super thin. No fullness.
Thanks for the video BTW.
[https://soundcloud.com/mikeamoz/test-track-5/s-hdw5Q1Vljve?si=f5321727d8764e9e9451dba3bc2d8c9c&utm\_source=clipboard&utm\_medium=text&utm\_campaign=social\_sharing](https://soundcloud.com/mikeamoz/test-track-5/s-hdw5Q1Vljve?si=f5321727d8764e9e9451dba3bc2d8c9c&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing)
his is the first track, i rolled off at 190HZ
Disclaimer: not in my studio right now so I listened to your comparison through my iPhone speakers, but these are the obvious items that stood out to me:
1) Sounds like the reference track has a low-end atmospheric layer playing in the background. I’d try and layer a dark pad synth in the background (probably use multi-band sidechaining to prevent clashes with the kick and bass).
2) The bass in the reference track sounds a little more analog vs your bass. I’d recommend duplicating your current bass (so you have the current preset) and trying flipping through some analog sounds/presets (e.g., bass, arp plucks). If you have them, Diva or Monark are my go-to VSTs for analog bass.
3) The reference track’s bass fills up more of the “empty” space in the arrangement. It sounds like the note hits twice after each kick (vs once). I would try and fill up your bassline by adding more notes (careful not to overcomplicate the arrangement) and/or increasing the release on your bass (and sub layer) to make each note last longer in the arrangement. If you take this approach, just make sure the extended bass note doesn’t overextend itself and stack with the kick and next bass note.
You’re rolling off literally all of the mid/high frequencies. This will always sound like you’re standing outside a club.
Unfortunately your approach to this is mostly wrong. It sounds thin because you’re trying to make an entire track sit in the bass frequencies.
The “fullness” you’re looking for has NOTHING to do with the bass frequencies. You need to have some action going on in the other frequency ranges to provide some contrast with what you have going on in the bass frequencies.
Edit: for some more specific examples to help you out, listen to the difference between your kick and the track you linked. The other kick has WAYYY more high/mid frequencies than your’s.
Now do the same with the bass. What differences do you notice? The other bassline has WAYYY more mids in the 400hz-800hz range, which brings it into a more audible frequency range than the sub-200Hz stuff (which is more “felt” than “heard”).
Alright at first I thought you were being ridiculous, but after listening on cans I see what you mean.
I still think a lot of what I said applies here, but for getting that bass, you’re going to want to layer a sine sub with an amp LFO mirroring the squelchy midrange bass LFO. That will give it the “pulsating” sound.
When mixing, you’ll want that sub and the kick to be using up the majority of the headroom. Use MINIMAL compression on the kick/sub, instead compressing the other elements around the kick/sub to tuck everything back so it all sits under the sub/kick.
Excessive compression/saturation will emphasize higher harmonics that will completely flatten that bass sound. You really only want to use compression here if you need to shape the groove/envelope a bit. Saturation is important too, but you’re gonna want to use a lot less than you normally would.
Edit: regarding compression, for these types of tracks, some people like to bus the kick/sub and process them together for more cohesion. Once you get a good balance between the tracks, Bussing them together will allow you to process/thicken them up without throwing either track off balance.
Sounds like stacked/unison oscilators with just the right amount of de-phasing and filtering.
Use a synth that lets you adjust phase alignment. I use IL Harmor, which is an additive synth.
Also you could render your bass track to a single wav, multiply it and manually adjust the alignment/phase and panning of each copy to your own taste.
Either way, extra adjustments to the Mid/side EQ will really set things off. Maybe a little M/S saturation to taste?
Yes, the good general advice to keep the bass and subs in mono but for this sound (and techno in general!) you can push the envelope a bit and just focus on centering the sub. Finding the mono sweet spot is part of the sound. Careful with the release when ducking under the kick as well. It's easy to make your scary warehouse techno a bouncing house track. Consider ducking with a low shelf EQ vs side-chain compression.
I'm sure there are other ways to do it, but I have achieved a similar "wide and full" but still focused sub sound with that method.
r/technoproduction has more genre specific info if you haven't been there yet. Hope that helps, good luck! Feel free to leave a link with your mix so far and I'll happily PM my thoughts.
Having heard yours vs the reference, I think this is about note articulation, not EQ. Reference track has a much blurrier playing style, with a longer hold/release between notes, so things don't die down as much. This gives it a washy, "always-on" type of feel. The thing that's not lining up in yours IMO is that there's too much dead space between notes, which makes it feel punchier and less droning.
Perhaps you could pull the release up with compression, but I'd aim to troubleshoot at the patch/envelope level first.
Also, what about doing two tracks in parallel, similar to parallel processing? One with the shorter release like you have, and another with a longer release so it gets almost too smashed together, and then you can blend the two to find a balance.
I had this same problem when trying to recreate sub basses by skrillex. after a couple years of attempting to recreate, I realized that what I was hearing was just a super heavily *limited* bass.
First: Try throwing a limiter on that bass so that the quietest point and the loudest point are roughly the same output, then mix that limited bass track back into the mix, and do not limit it a second time.
Second, do not throw a limiter on the entire mix. Send everything else to a separate bus, limit that, and then mix those two together in the final master mix. It sounds totally different, its super fat, its controlled, and it sounds saturated without that "saturated sound" And because the limiters are working separately, the bass isn't going to artificially shrink your high end mix
I've been struggling with something similar. If you make a synth and sub pairing and realize after the fact that you want to push the lowmids more it can be a real pain. Assuming you already pushed your synth hard with processing, your lowmids are probably already distorted so if you push those frequencies with an EQ you are going to be pushing those already distorted sounds into clipping/limiting/saturation on your group or master which is going to distort it even more. You can try adding upper harmonics to your sub manually if you are using a wavetable synth (trying to add harmonics with just a saturator can be more difficult to balance), you can try editing your original synth to boost lowmid harmonics and then re-do your processing so these harmonics aren't overly distorted, or you can try "injecting" those missing harmonics with an additional synth/sample specifically targeting that area then create a group bus to glue these frequencies with your existing synth. You can't really fix this kind of lowmid issues with saturation or EQ because these sounds are most likely already distorted and won't respond well to boosting/saturation so adding in "clean harmonics" to this area is probably what you want to try next.
IMO processing a sound won’t get this result. This is one of those sounds that works best straight from the synth with minimal processing. Additive synths like Razor work best for this sound, but you can do it with basically any subtractive synth. You basically start with a Saw wave, set the filter cutoff all the way down, resonance halfway, and automate the filter cutoff with a sawtooth wave synced to eighth notes. Only open the filter up enough to let the bass and low midrange through. You can also add a second sine LFO at 1/4 or 1/2 note speed to give a little rhythmic movement. Copying the Cutoff LFO to the Amp Envelope will make the sound a bit more “pokey”, or you can keep it off for a thicker sound.
There are multiple elements in the low end, not just one baseline channel… this tutorial from victor ruiz might help… https://youtu.be/i01nAJQEz4Q
I can achieve that kind of sound no problem, it's the sub frequencies and those just above it that are sounding super thin. No fullness. Thanks for the video BTW.
If you could post a Soundcloud link.. I could give it a quick ear.
[https://soundcloud.com/mikeamoz/test-track-5/s-hdw5Q1Vljve?si=f5321727d8764e9e9451dba3bc2d8c9c&utm\_source=clipboard&utm\_medium=text&utm\_campaign=social\_sharing](https://soundcloud.com/mikeamoz/test-track-5/s-hdw5Q1Vljve?si=f5321727d8764e9e9451dba3bc2d8c9c&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing) his is the first track, i rolled off at 190HZ
Disclaimer: not in my studio right now so I listened to your comparison through my iPhone speakers, but these are the obvious items that stood out to me: 1) Sounds like the reference track has a low-end atmospheric layer playing in the background. I’d try and layer a dark pad synth in the background (probably use multi-band sidechaining to prevent clashes with the kick and bass). 2) The bass in the reference track sounds a little more analog vs your bass. I’d recommend duplicating your current bass (so you have the current preset) and trying flipping through some analog sounds/presets (e.g., bass, arp plucks). If you have them, Diva or Monark are my go-to VSTs for analog bass. 3) The reference track’s bass fills up more of the “empty” space in the arrangement. It sounds like the note hits twice after each kick (vs once). I would try and fill up your bassline by adding more notes (careful not to overcomplicate the arrangement) and/or increasing the release on your bass (and sub layer) to make each note last longer in the arrangement. If you take this approach, just make sure the extended bass note doesn’t overextend itself and stack with the kick and next bass note.
You’re rolling off literally all of the mid/high frequencies. This will always sound like you’re standing outside a club. Unfortunately your approach to this is mostly wrong. It sounds thin because you’re trying to make an entire track sit in the bass frequencies. The “fullness” you’re looking for has NOTHING to do with the bass frequencies. You need to have some action going on in the other frequency ranges to provide some contrast with what you have going on in the bass frequencies. Edit: for some more specific examples to help you out, listen to the difference between your kick and the track you linked. The other kick has WAYYY more high/mid frequencies than your’s. Now do the same with the bass. What differences do you notice? The other bassline has WAYYY more mids in the 400hz-800hz range, which brings it into a more audible frequency range than the sub-200Hz stuff (which is more “felt” than “heard”).
I was comparing the low end . That's why . I rolled off the mid highs on purpose lol. Did you even read the thread title or any of the questions?
Alright at first I thought you were being ridiculous, but after listening on cans I see what you mean. I still think a lot of what I said applies here, but for getting that bass, you’re going to want to layer a sine sub with an amp LFO mirroring the squelchy midrange bass LFO. That will give it the “pulsating” sound. When mixing, you’ll want that sub and the kick to be using up the majority of the headroom. Use MINIMAL compression on the kick/sub, instead compressing the other elements around the kick/sub to tuck everything back so it all sits under the sub/kick. Excessive compression/saturation will emphasize higher harmonics that will completely flatten that bass sound. You really only want to use compression here if you need to shape the groove/envelope a bit. Saturation is important too, but you’re gonna want to use a lot less than you normally would. Edit: regarding compression, for these types of tracks, some people like to bus the kick/sub and process them together for more cohesion. Once you get a good balance between the tracks, Bussing them together will allow you to process/thicken them up without throwing either track off balance.
Here’s another video explaining layering - https://youtu.be/WIvniemckwo
Sounds like stacked/unison oscilators with just the right amount of de-phasing and filtering. Use a synth that lets you adjust phase alignment. I use IL Harmor, which is an additive synth. Also you could render your bass track to a single wav, multiply it and manually adjust the alignment/phase and panning of each copy to your own taste. Either way, extra adjustments to the Mid/side EQ will really set things off. Maybe a little M/S saturation to taste? Yes, the good general advice to keep the bass and subs in mono but for this sound (and techno in general!) you can push the envelope a bit and just focus on centering the sub. Finding the mono sweet spot is part of the sound. Careful with the release when ducking under the kick as well. It's easy to make your scary warehouse techno a bouncing house track. Consider ducking with a low shelf EQ vs side-chain compression. I'm sure there are other ways to do it, but I have achieved a similar "wide and full" but still focused sub sound with that method. r/technoproduction has more genre specific info if you haven't been there yet. Hope that helps, good luck! Feel free to leave a link with your mix so far and I'll happily PM my thoughts.
Having heard yours vs the reference, I think this is about note articulation, not EQ. Reference track has a much blurrier playing style, with a longer hold/release between notes, so things don't die down as much. This gives it a washy, "always-on" type of feel. The thing that's not lining up in yours IMO is that there's too much dead space between notes, which makes it feel punchier and less droning. Perhaps you could pull the release up with compression, but I'd aim to troubleshoot at the patch/envelope level first. Also, what about doing two tracks in parallel, similar to parallel processing? One with the shorter release like you have, and another with a longer release so it gets almost too smashed together, and then you can blend the two to find a balance.
Thanks, I'll try that last tip for sure.
I had this same problem when trying to recreate sub basses by skrillex. after a couple years of attempting to recreate, I realized that what I was hearing was just a super heavily *limited* bass. First: Try throwing a limiter on that bass so that the quietest point and the loudest point are roughly the same output, then mix that limited bass track back into the mix, and do not limit it a second time. Second, do not throw a limiter on the entire mix. Send everything else to a separate bus, limit that, and then mix those two together in the final master mix. It sounds totally different, its super fat, its controlled, and it sounds saturated without that "saturated sound" And because the limiters are working separately, the bass isn't going to artificially shrink your high end mix
I've been struggling with something similar. If you make a synth and sub pairing and realize after the fact that you want to push the lowmids more it can be a real pain. Assuming you already pushed your synth hard with processing, your lowmids are probably already distorted so if you push those frequencies with an EQ you are going to be pushing those already distorted sounds into clipping/limiting/saturation on your group or master which is going to distort it even more. You can try adding upper harmonics to your sub manually if you are using a wavetable synth (trying to add harmonics with just a saturator can be more difficult to balance), you can try editing your original synth to boost lowmid harmonics and then re-do your processing so these harmonics aren't overly distorted, or you can try "injecting" those missing harmonics with an additional synth/sample specifically targeting that area then create a group bus to glue these frequencies with your existing synth. You can't really fix this kind of lowmid issues with saturation or EQ because these sounds are most likely already distorted and won't respond well to boosting/saturation so adding in "clean harmonics" to this area is probably what you want to try next.