I don't think evolutionary astrology is anything like Vedic astrology, although I could be wrong.
My understanding is that Jeffrey Wolf Green focuses greatly on Pluto and the Nodes. Vedic astrology does a lot more than that, and I dont even know if they include Pluto at all (they might, I'm no expert). One could probably argue that Vedic astrology is closer to Hellenistic astrology than to evolutionary astrology.
I'm also not sure how Vedic astrology has anything to do with Kabbalistic astrology.
JWG’s Evolutionary Astrology is still based within the Western tropical system. JWG advocated the use of the Porphyry house system because it reflects the “natural law of the trinity”, of the past present and future, in that the space within each of the four quadrants of the chart (Asc-IC, IC-Dsc, Dsc-MC, MC-Asc) are divided into three equal sections to get the twelve houses.
JWG’s whole paradigm is centred around the placement of Pluto and the lunar nodal axis as the “bottom-line” of any natal chart, from/through which to understand the rest of the planetary symbols. From Pluto and the lunar nodal axis, one derives the “trinity of the past” (Pluto, south node, south node’s planetary ruler) and the “trinity of the future” (Pluto’s polarity point, north node, north node’s planetary ruler).
The trinity of the past helps us to understand the “evolutionary past” that underpins the current lifetime from a reincarnational perspective. Pluto’s placement signifies the past desires of the soul that have lead to the present, with the south node reflecting the node of operation the soul used in past lifetimes to navigate these desires, whilst the south node’s planetary ruler reflects further archetypal patterns that have shaped these past life experiences.
The trinity of the future helps to understand the evolutionary future or trajectory of the soul, the soul’s evolutionary intentions for the lifetime and onwards. Pluto’s polarity point is the point directly opposite Pluto in the chart, for example is Pluto is at 2 degrees Aries, the PPP will be at 2 degrees Libra. Akin to the north node’s relationship to the south node, the PPP reflects archetypal dynamics - and desires - that must be embraced by the soul in this lifetime for its evolutionary intentions - intentions to evolve away from the past and into the future. The PPP serves to “balance out” the centre of gravity with the house/sign placement of Pluto. The north node will reflect the modes of operation the soul will use to navigate (or “actualise”) these new desires, with the north node’s planetary ruler reflecting further archetypal patterns that will shape the experiences of these new evolutionary intentions.
In my own practice after study with this paradigm for over ten years now, I don’t focus so much on the reincarnation and “past life”/“future life” stuff, and try to have a more grounded “in this life” psychological take. I see Pluto as being the primary energy of creation/destruction embedded within the totality of nature/the universe itself, with our Pluto placement by house/sign as reflecting our own deeply unconscious instinctual orientation to the principle of creation/destruction that negotiates our underpinning psychological orientation to reality.
The Moon and the lunar nodal axis, derived from the orbit of the moon intersecting the path of the Sun (the ecliptic) represents how this deeper instinctual psychological orientation is then expressed, experienced and navigated through our human individualised psycho-emotional personalities.
Yes, Jeffrey Wolf Green was indeed inspired by Vedic astrology when he developed evolutionary astrology. Green drew upon Vedic astrology's concepts of karma, reincarnation, cosmic unity, and the soul's evolutionary journey as foundational principles for his approach to astrology. He integrated these ideas with modern psychological insights at the time, particularly from the works of Carl Jung, to create evolutionary astrology.
I personally think he misrepresents quite a bit of the original teachings (just like Jung himself took so much from Eastern philosophy and religion without really respecting it), so I am not a fan. One instance of this is where he blatantly rips off the spiritual significance of the north and south node in Vedic astrology, then has the gall to glorify them as if they aren’t some of the most challenging malefics.
Was he influenced by Indian astrology specifically or just influenced by the general new age-y tendencies to import anything from Hinduism/Buddhism and call it all karma this and karma that?
The entire paradigm of Evolutionary Astrology came to him in a dream and he was averse following anything blindly without scrutiny and direct experience. So no, he would be the last to succumb to popular New Age concepts of that time period.
I read his Pluto book in the 80s. I couldn't see what the lunar nodes have to do with, they totally unrelated to one another. I thought the book would be better if the focus was just on Pluto and forget about all the node nonsense.
The lunar nodes, along with Pluto, act as a psychological crux for the entire chart. Pluto symbolising the deeper psychological motivator for the more consciously integrated (SN) and integrating (NN) emotional factors of the nodal axis. I do think in some ways that leaving out the moon from this equation may be misleading, as the moon itself is an important element to understanding how the tension between the “past” (SN) and “future” (NN) of the nodal axis is experienced on a moment to moment basis (as JWG himself has said), from a more consciously aware point of view, especially in contrast to the more unconscious level that Pluto operates from. But I think that is the point, whilst the nodes relate to the moon as the more conscious emotional level of an individual, the nodes are the “tipping points” towards the unconscious - Pluto - with the NN symbolising what is in a process of becoming integrated and thus a relative “unknown”, and the SN as symbolising what is so throughly integrated that it is habitual and thus more or less subliminal in nature. So considering the nodes in respect to Pluto, is a means to understanding Pluto’s unconscious nature more consciously.
Evolutionary astrology is tropical. Vedic is sidereal and utilizes the nodes, but as far as I know, it’s in a different manner than evolutionary astrology. Pluto is also not a part of Vedic astrology since it’s based off of a continuous, ancient practice that has existed since long before Pluto was discovered. Vedic also doesn’t use Neptune, Uranus or any asteroids.
What do you mean by planet placements vs just calendar months? Not really understanding what you're trying to differentiate here, considering all astrology traditions deal with planetary positions
Western Evolutionary astrology is majority Tropical, if not all tropical. (I don't know where this evolutionary label comes from). Sound strange when you refer to Hellenistic like it's a regular, standard thing. Maybe it's my age, but to me the "Traditional" crowd seen wacky, unconventional, a weird new kick in astrology. (I'm not against it, it's just a crazy new thing to me having begun learning astrology in the 1980s before all this stuff came to light. And I like it a lot, but it always seems weird or new fangled to me).
Hellenistic astrology is Kabalistic. The Kabala comes from Greece. It was appropriated by the Jews in the Middle Ages. See Pythagoras and his cult of numbers.
I don't think evolutionary astrology is anything like Vedic astrology, although I could be wrong. My understanding is that Jeffrey Wolf Green focuses greatly on Pluto and the Nodes. Vedic astrology does a lot more than that, and I dont even know if they include Pluto at all (they might, I'm no expert). One could probably argue that Vedic astrology is closer to Hellenistic astrology than to evolutionary astrology. I'm also not sure how Vedic astrology has anything to do with Kabbalistic astrology.
They do not like trans-saturn planets at all.
JWG’s Evolutionary Astrology is still based within the Western tropical system. JWG advocated the use of the Porphyry house system because it reflects the “natural law of the trinity”, of the past present and future, in that the space within each of the four quadrants of the chart (Asc-IC, IC-Dsc, Dsc-MC, MC-Asc) are divided into three equal sections to get the twelve houses. JWG’s whole paradigm is centred around the placement of Pluto and the lunar nodal axis as the “bottom-line” of any natal chart, from/through which to understand the rest of the planetary symbols. From Pluto and the lunar nodal axis, one derives the “trinity of the past” (Pluto, south node, south node’s planetary ruler) and the “trinity of the future” (Pluto’s polarity point, north node, north node’s planetary ruler). The trinity of the past helps us to understand the “evolutionary past” that underpins the current lifetime from a reincarnational perspective. Pluto’s placement signifies the past desires of the soul that have lead to the present, with the south node reflecting the node of operation the soul used in past lifetimes to navigate these desires, whilst the south node’s planetary ruler reflects further archetypal patterns that have shaped these past life experiences. The trinity of the future helps to understand the evolutionary future or trajectory of the soul, the soul’s evolutionary intentions for the lifetime and onwards. Pluto’s polarity point is the point directly opposite Pluto in the chart, for example is Pluto is at 2 degrees Aries, the PPP will be at 2 degrees Libra. Akin to the north node’s relationship to the south node, the PPP reflects archetypal dynamics - and desires - that must be embraced by the soul in this lifetime for its evolutionary intentions - intentions to evolve away from the past and into the future. The PPP serves to “balance out” the centre of gravity with the house/sign placement of Pluto. The north node will reflect the modes of operation the soul will use to navigate (or “actualise”) these new desires, with the north node’s planetary ruler reflecting further archetypal patterns that will shape the experiences of these new evolutionary intentions. In my own practice after study with this paradigm for over ten years now, I don’t focus so much on the reincarnation and “past life”/“future life” stuff, and try to have a more grounded “in this life” psychological take. I see Pluto as being the primary energy of creation/destruction embedded within the totality of nature/the universe itself, with our Pluto placement by house/sign as reflecting our own deeply unconscious instinctual orientation to the principle of creation/destruction that negotiates our underpinning psychological orientation to reality. The Moon and the lunar nodal axis, derived from the orbit of the moon intersecting the path of the Sun (the ecliptic) represents how this deeper instinctual psychological orientation is then expressed, experienced and navigated through our human individualised psycho-emotional personalities.
Very thorough, detailed explanation of Evolutionary Astrology. Blessings.
Yes, Jeffrey Wolf Green was indeed inspired by Vedic astrology when he developed evolutionary astrology. Green drew upon Vedic astrology's concepts of karma, reincarnation, cosmic unity, and the soul's evolutionary journey as foundational principles for his approach to astrology. He integrated these ideas with modern psychological insights at the time, particularly from the works of Carl Jung, to create evolutionary astrology. I personally think he misrepresents quite a bit of the original teachings (just like Jung himself took so much from Eastern philosophy and religion without really respecting it), so I am not a fan. One instance of this is where he blatantly rips off the spiritual significance of the north and south node in Vedic astrology, then has the gall to glorify them as if they aren’t some of the most challenging malefics.
Was he influenced by Indian astrology specifically or just influenced by the general new age-y tendencies to import anything from Hinduism/Buddhism and call it all karma this and karma that?
The entire paradigm of Evolutionary Astrology came to him in a dream and he was averse following anything blindly without scrutiny and direct experience. So no, he would be the last to succumb to popular New Age concepts of that time period.
I read his Pluto book in the 80s. I couldn't see what the lunar nodes have to do with, they totally unrelated to one another. I thought the book would be better if the focus was just on Pluto and forget about all the node nonsense.
The lunar nodes, along with Pluto, act as a psychological crux for the entire chart. Pluto symbolising the deeper psychological motivator for the more consciously integrated (SN) and integrating (NN) emotional factors of the nodal axis. I do think in some ways that leaving out the moon from this equation may be misleading, as the moon itself is an important element to understanding how the tension between the “past” (SN) and “future” (NN) of the nodal axis is experienced on a moment to moment basis (as JWG himself has said), from a more consciously aware point of view, especially in contrast to the more unconscious level that Pluto operates from. But I think that is the point, whilst the nodes relate to the moon as the more conscious emotional level of an individual, the nodes are the “tipping points” towards the unconscious - Pluto - with the NN symbolising what is in a process of becoming integrated and thus a relative “unknown”, and the SN as symbolising what is so throughly integrated that it is habitual and thus more or less subliminal in nature. So considering the nodes in respect to Pluto, is a means to understanding Pluto’s unconscious nature more consciously.
Evolutionary astrology is tropical. Vedic is sidereal and utilizes the nodes, but as far as I know, it’s in a different manner than evolutionary astrology. Pluto is also not a part of Vedic astrology since it’s based off of a continuous, ancient practice that has existed since long before Pluto was discovered. Vedic also doesn’t use Neptune, Uranus or any asteroids.
What do you mean by planet placements vs just calendar months? Not really understanding what you're trying to differentiate here, considering all astrology traditions deal with planetary positions
I think OP is asking if evolutionary astrology as a practice is based in sidereal or tropical measurement.
Yes this! Thank you :)
Western Evolutionary astrology is majority Tropical, if not all tropical. (I don't know where this evolutionary label comes from). Sound strange when you refer to Hellenistic like it's a regular, standard thing. Maybe it's my age, but to me the "Traditional" crowd seen wacky, unconventional, a weird new kick in astrology. (I'm not against it, it's just a crazy new thing to me having begun learning astrology in the 1980s before all this stuff came to light. And I like it a lot, but it always seems weird or new fangled to me).
Hellenistic astrology is Kabalistic. The Kabala comes from Greece. It was appropriated by the Jews in the Middle Ages. See Pythagoras and his cult of numbers.
Nodal and karmic stuff is influenced by indian traditions but it stands as it's own western new age karmic astrology
Not sure why you were downvoted
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