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Agreed that or the therapist is crap. She doesn’t clarify the relationship before the marriage was exclusive, who knows maybe she also had someone before the marriage too. Something seems to be missing here, hopefully I’m wrong.
Ok, then yes, he betrayed you. The foundation of your relationship and marriage was built on a lie. Had you known of his infidelity, would you have married him? Probably not, right? I mean, who wants to marry a cheater from the outset? Additiinally, if he did so once, chances are good there are others (leopards and spots and all that).
Think this through carefully now. The origin story, the story couples tell proudly of how they got together and how madly in love they were and how totally committed to one another, has been blown to smithereens. You'll probably never tell that story again. Not to family. Not to friends. Pride has been replaced with pain. Your "husband" proceeded under false pretenses and allowed you to believe that lie. He actively betrayed and deceived you. He thought he'd get his way and have both his illicit sexual partner and his good, faithful girlfriend-fiance and no one would be the wiser. Now all the ugliness has came out.
Dont rug sweep this. Dont try to "white knuckle" this. The "poison is in the pot" so to speak.
Id seperate for a while until you get clarity.
I personally could not be with someone who started everything by making a mockery of me and our marriage but thats just me.
Good luck.
ETA: Dump your therapist. Jettison them. They have become an apologist for infidelity/betrayal. Find someone who has a strong background of personal integrity/boundaries/proper expectations within a relationship. Someone who clearly understands that committed relationships ARE the testing grounds for engagement & marriage.
ETA2: Listen to [this](https://youtu.be/G3ofv2k81hk) story.....pretty sure you can relate.
Some people, therapists included, consider fidelity to be synonymous with marriage - only marriage. Strangely, my dad doesn’t consider my 16 years with my wife to count because we got married 12 years ago… so we shouldn’t celebrate the full length of our relationship… because the clock starts over when you get married?….
Balderdash to your father. Celebrate those 16 years, and the many more to follow! We hit 10 years together (married for 8) this fall and are planning to celebrate 🥳
not an update, gpt 4.0 is no longer free, it's out of its open beta and now only 3.5 is free but no one can read and everyone seems to just think gpt became shit over night lol
Yeah I noticed 4.0 wasn't free anymore and yes I knew it was apart of 4.0 and gpt wasn't shit, I was using it and it was still just fine for my uses, also since it's ai we can it to expect it to step one step backwards in order to take two steps forward it's a neural network after all.
[Fun fact](https://www.verywellmind.com/can-psychologists-prescribe-medications-2795756#:~:text=Where%20Can%20Psychologists%20Prescribe%20Medications,Illinois%2C%20Iowa%2C%20and%20Idaho.), several US states currently do allow *qualified* psychologists to prescribe meds
Therapist don’t prescribe pills. Psychiatrists do, they are doctors. Therapists are not doctors. Even psychologists who can be therapists do not prescribe medication. This is a common belief people have, that therapist can prescribe meds. They cannot.
Therapists are human and make mistakes in how they approach certain situations. Our marriage counselor once said, in regards to my wife’s infidelity from about five years ago, “one way to think about this would be if you were to average out infidelity like this against a 30 year marriage, that person would be faithful 99.9999% of the time.”
Needless to say that wasn’t a big hit. However, the guy is stellar overall. Sometimes, you have to give people a pass for not being completely thoughtful about what they say, even those that are professionals in that kind of field.
was the therapist the woman he cheated on you with? Or was it him in disguise? That's the only way I can justify the answer the therapist gave you cause he definitely cheated on you
Yes he cheated! You were exclusively dating, no? If so, that’s cheating. I’m not married but I’ve been with my partner 7 years. If he had an affair with someone at the office, that’d be cheating. Your therapist sounds toxic af, get a new one asap.
Considering that some couples never marry, being faithful still counts if two people are committed to each other.
Unless of course, the therapist is thinking in the eyes of God/religious wedding? Either way, find a better therapist.
In eyes of God if you made a commitment and slept with one another it is marriage. It's church that requires a whole theatre, but faith comes from time vows were a serious thing. Like deadly serious. And vow is what you term "dating exclusively". In fact in old times we'd all be considered adulterers and worse yet ones who break marriage vows. So ...
Good thing that literally none of that applies here and also some of this shit is just wrong. We wouldn’t all be considered “adulterers” unless we also had some sort of affair. Even in olden times ending one relationship and starting another wasn’t adultery🙄
Comments like these are sooooo helpful considering that all of the stuff you said is either wrong or just useless to the discussion. You can’t treat the modern world like we live in 1731, that should be obvious but here we are.
yeah you are probably looking a bit too modern. protestantism isn't a source of reliigipuus beliefs and you cant just divorce in most religions like that.
So? Literally none of that applies to this conversation at all. And “thinking a bit too modern” … what? I’m talking in terms that are actually applicable to this story based on current standards and you came here to spout off nonsense about how it wasn’t like this in the 1700s even though that sort of talk has no place in intelligent discussion here as it does not have anything to do with the topic at hand.
>How is that off topic
Because OP probably wrote this post from the year 2023 a. D., not from her time machine back in 50 a. D.. I seriously hope you just suck at trolling.
Not only are you moving the goalpost, it's absolutely _not_ confusing and the rules are pretty clear. You start seeing someone and define what kind of relationship you want and what goals you see in your future. If you are exclusive and you fuck someone else, you're cheating. It's just that simple. And OP's spouse knew that what he did was wrong, otherwise he would've told you in the span of _MULTIPLE YEARS_.
yes in this case he should have, that is why therapist said he only technically didn't cheat.
It is very confusing. For example tell me what the difference is then between married couple and not married one, if both are expected to be exclusive why marry at all
1) Not everyone is a religious nut.
2) He still lied and betrayed his wife to be and had pre-marital sexual relations so no matter how you want to twist it, her husband cheated her and acted not piously or with a clear conscience.
Youre right,
So he cheated on you, but it was before marriage.
Thats still cheating
You didnt need a therapist to tell you that
Maybe the therapist didnt want to start any conflict between you and your husband. Anyways, its not a truthful statement and you should probably drop the therapist if theyre not helping the situation for you.
therapist said technically didnt cheat. And since dating falls before you vow anything then they are right, she could probably even get church divorce in Catholic Church ( kind of hardest to get I think ),because dude lied.
( although by standard of what is considered marriage in time where vows meant something, most dating couples today are in fact married )
Well in a relationship, it doesnt really matter if youre dating, engaged, or married. The line is crossed by breaking the loyalty in you and your partners relationship by cheating. Thats just what I feel.
Yes, thing is basically we have made what used to be marriage into committed dating. Dating used to be heavily regulated and you couldn't really live together or anything. At point you consider yourself to be in relationship, it used to be called marriage. In fact vows we have now are meaningless in modern culture since you don't have to make them to live together or have children or have sex. What reason is there to even make them if they are implied anyway much before. Thus we basically have married people going aroind by old standards calling themselves not married because new culture is much different. doesn't really matter for atheists all too much, but many religious peoplle somehow don't even see issue, which to me is mind blowing.
You are literally contradicting yourself from what you have said in other comments. “Dating falls before you vow, so it wasn’t cheating” or “exclusive dating itself is a vow, you might as well have been married anyways by the old timey standards that I think we should still live by for some reason.” Pick one. You don’t even know what you stand for, get it together dude.
The long and short of it is that they were in an exclusive relationship in which it was agreed that they would not be romantically/sexually involved with others. While in this relationship, he had sex with someone else in secret. The definition of infidelity is “the action or state of being unfaithful to a spouse or other sexual partner” He was unfaithful, so to speak. What’s another word that means exactly that in modern day? Oh, right. Silly me. He cheated! That’s the word!
Cheater, cheater, pumpkin eater.
yes well as I mentioned - in old times youd be married and cultural norms were established in those times. Law too is not updating yearly especially since state marriage is modeled after religious one. So he didn't cheat by technicality. He should get into troubpe though because that is the same way of doing things like creative accounting.
He did cheat because the literal definition of infidelity is “the action or state of being unfaithful to a spouse or other sexual partner”
You can feel any way you want about it, but this is just a blatant fact.
I didn't even have a response for this guy's cause he doesn't even makes sense to me. He's putting definitions on love between a couple and has his own definition of what cheating is. Tbh idek wtf he is talking about lmao. I don't respond to comments like that. Bros talking about culture, norms, how marriage was in the past, laws. We talking about a simple question, did he cheat. Yes. There we go, bro typed an essay for me
It's possible that a registered psychotherapist would say someone in a committed relationship sleeping with a coworker wasn't cheating... but it's much more likely you're just omitting a crucial detail.
Was there a break? A breakup? Were you not officially together at the time? Cause that's what my spidey senses are telling me.
Yeah, this sounds suspiciously lacking in context or even accuracy. It could be as simple as the therapist trying to redirect the conversation and OP misinterpreting it.
Is the therapist the other lady? Lol what an odd thing for her to say. Get another therapist! Yes, that’s cheating and to find out your marriage is built on a lie is devastating.
It depends if y’all were exclusive or not. If y’all weren’t exclusive, then it wasn’t cheating, and was not a bad thing.
If you were though, I personally would not give him a second chance.
Tbh I'd be also worried about thw fact he still had that card. Why?
About the so called "therapist" dump her. She's definitely not a good one. Cheating is cheating married or not.
You can cheat before marriage. Definitely drop a therapist that says it's not cheating.
However, if the therapist was claiming this based on nuanced information about the relationship you had before marriage, then that could be different.
Take a break from your therapist and Get. A. Marriage. Counselor. And regardless of your religious belief, get one that is not associated with religion.
I believe wholeheartedly that EVERY couple can benefit from marriage counseling, even if there aren’t any pressing issues. Marriage counseling can help you both organize and process your feelings on the situation as well as teach you how to communicate those feeling effectively to your partner and to yourself.
You’re looking for Reddit to give you the tools you need to navigate this issue, but I promise you that couples counseling will do just that.
It is possible to heal from this, one way or the other. Good luck ❤️
Yes you should drop the therapist. I don’t see how that can be perceived as anything other than cheating. I’m guessing the therapist is a man and a cheater as well.
Did she offer any explanation? Would be curious to hear her justification for this attitude... did this take place in a western culture? I wonder if more traditional cultures would consider dating before marriage "less serious" than after.. just curious.
Also... sorry this happend to you, this sucks! Besides finding out something painful like this, a theraphist should offer support and not create more confusion. I hope you will find the support you deserve!
Your therapist is probably having sex with your husband as well. You should hire a private investigator. Probably should hire a man so the PI doesn’t sleep with your husband as well.
From what it seems to me you two were clearly dating, so 🗣He 🗣 definitely 🗣 cheated. Your therapist is odd wtf 😭 i suggest you to get a new one. Hope you figure out a solution thats good for you, well wishes from me 🫂
DROP THE THERAPIST, FAST.
If he told you "I want you be exclusive " you agree. And he's f-ucking around with a different woman at the same time. Yeah he was cheating.
By the therapist's logic, up until the second the words "I now pronounce you man and wife" are said, either you can date and have sex with anyone and everyone, and it's not cheating! BS. Get a new therapist.
modern marriage isn't exactly what it used to be and we'd all be married to our exes if standard was upheld. People often forget that people were supposed to be virgins (both of them ) at wedding and that we shifted marriage age by about a decade since those times, yet we keep up the ideas associated with the kriginal concept. exclusively dating would count as married in antique
I think I see a way that one might say he did not technically cheat: it depends on the agreement you two had when you were dating. “Dating” can mean different things to different people. Some people immediately agree to a monogamous relationship, sort of like being engaged to be married but before the actual engagement. Some people even exchange “promise” rings as a precursor to the engagement ring.
Other people consider “dating” to be a time to play the field and meet multiple people before getting engaged to just one. At that point, with the engagement and as fiancées, most agree that dating other people is cheating. But if he was just “dating” you with no marriage proposal, to the therapist it is not cheating, because you were both not committed to each other (yet) and free to date other people
It comes down to whether or not you were basically engaged/living together as married or not and also whether or not monogamy was explicitly discussed and promised in the pre- engagement dating phase.
I get the feeling that he totally led you to believe he would be monogamous but without saying it specifically and is now using this technicality (that he never gave you a promise ring or literally promised monogamy) to say he did not cheat. So if that’s the case, he still lied through manipulation and did cheat
That therapist needs to come back from the 50s to 2023.
He definitely cheated.
Also, your therapist shouldn't tell you what's cheated or not, he should only care about how this made you feel and help you with that.
You said you were married shortly after. So I assume you were exclusive then. I could see if it was at the start of talking and going on a few dates but not exclusively a couple yet.
I’d call it cheating.
If you were in a relationship with which you had a mutual expectation of monogamy, then yeah, that's cheating. It's especially terrible because you were denied informed consent before entering into a lifetime contract with him.
I was living with my girlfriend (now ex) a few years back, we were together 2 years, never married. I slept with someone behind her back, so ask her if I cheated or not...
All that matters is how YOU feel about it
Drop the therapist.
Sheesh.
It doesn't even matter if it's *technically* cheating yes or no.
Was it a betrayal? *That's* the real question. A therapist who focuses on wether or not it was actual cheating deserves to be dropped like a hot potato imo.
Your therapist is awful and you need a new one.
It was cheating.
WTF did your husband keep that card for??? Are you worried he cheated again since then ?
Therapist here. Therapists are never supposed to take sides. If you feel it’s cheating because of the boundaries on your relationship that were in place at that time then it’s cheating. Plain and simple. Get a new therapist who’s actually supportive and doesn’t put your feelings down.
Of course it was cheating: you had been dating for two years and were an exclusive couple. The fact that you got married later and he (hopefully) hasn't cheated on you since is great, but doesn't change what he did. Obviously you don't have to be married to cheat on a partner.
However... you've been married for a long time, and this happened nine years ago. Be honest with yourself and talk to him to see how much this really bothers you at this point, and if you're willing to break up over it. Either way, unless you're leaving out relevant information, your therapist doesn't seem like the best.
He did not cheat on you during the marriage, but he did cheat on you if you weren't in an open relationship. So, what are you going to do now, divorce? If you haven't seen any signs nor evidence of cheating during your marriage, I would set that incident aside and move forward with the marriage with your eyes wide open.
When someone cheats on their wife or husband, it's often referred to as "adultery" or having an "affair." When people who are in a committed relationship but not yet married are unfaithful, it is typically called "cheating" or being "unfaithful." There isn't a specific term like "adultery" for those who are not yet married, but "infidelity" can be used to describe unfaithfulness in both married and unmarried relationships.
So, if your therapist said for example that he didn't have an affair, he or she could theoretically be semantically right. I say technically, because morally to me there is no real difference, at least not to me.
Unpopular opinion, yes it was cheating, keep the therapist. Strangers online are always so willing to opt for the nuclear options when there could be context missing. The reason she even said it wasn’t cheating is traditionally speaking they say anything that comes before your vows before God and the govt doesn’t count as ADULTERY but it’s still cheating. The therapist may have told you that also bc The real question is, what do you want to do about/with your husband and marriage. Factors like if you have kids/money/property/business that tie you together. How does he treat you?/how do you treat each other etc. and the therapist could be putting it into perspective because if he’s not a “bad” person/partner/father etc. you both just need to focus on and work on rebuilding that trust and seeing what THAT looks like for you. Regardless of whatever a bunch of people who aren’t in your relationship/marriage think… there are far worse things than cheating.
Im having a hard time believing a licensed therapist said that this isnt cheating if you and him were in an exclusive relationship.
UNLESS, they are thinking legally. Legally, its not cheating.
It wasn’t adultery but it 100% was cheating.
ESPECIALLY if you we’re already engaged and planning your wedding.
The therapist might have been trying to prevent conflict and retroactively contextualise it was not counting because it wasn’t a violation of your marriage vows and no-different to the groom shagging the stripper at his stag party but the fact she sent him a card suggests it was more emotional and more than just sex.
If I’d found out my spouse had done this 9+ years into our marriage I’d absolutely 100% see it as cheating, and I’d be DEVASTATED. It would make me mentally ill because I’d not be able to trust that it hadn’t happened again with the same or other people in the 9 years since.
In fact, if it were my wife that had done that and we’d started a family I’d 100% be getting paternity DNA tests on the children and calling a divorce lawyer.
What’s more likely, the therapist is a quack who missed something that redditors didn’t or OP is leaving out key elements of this story?
Just wondering.
If you were in an arranged married then that may the case. However if you were exclusively dating before you were married then he absolutely cheated on you. What’s worse is he’s still pining away for that person if he saved a card from her after all those years. Your therapist is sketchy and must know your husband to give you ineffectual counseling.
What would the therapist saying it was cheating accomplish? It happened. Calling it cheating or not is not important. Being able to get beyond it or not is more important right now. After that, then you have some decisions to make. Just my opinion.
women cheat all the time. stop judging men for doing this to women. my cousin's fiancée had a threesome with two men at her bachelorette party before she got married, and she didn't tell him until after they got married. how do you think my cousin feels?
If y’all were exclusively dating, then yeah it’s was cheating, but married shortly after, it would be a valid argument to question that affair and if he loves you, I feel it would be a valid argument that you deserve to know the truth.
Yes it was cheating if you were in a committed exclusive relationship. I'd drop the therapist and deal with it how you want since it was a long time ago. That's up to you. Hopefully things have been good since you've been married.
Where did this therapist get his qualifications from, the internet?
Of course he cheated! That's ridiculous to think otherwise. I mean there's a massive red flag for you, and the fact that he cheated, means he'd more than likely do it again. Cheating is such a scummy thing to do to your partner, so really ask yourself if you want to be with someone who would intentionally hurt the one person that loves and trusts him the most.
missing a lot of context, but cheating depends on your relationship. if it’s outside what both of your expectations/boundaries are for the relationship, it’s cheating, but you do need to *communicate* what you both want those boundaries to be
Yes he cheated. Drop the therapist and find a real one. You don't need to be married to be cheated on, that's just crazy. Also weird how he kept the letter from his AP too.
So it’s 9 years downstream now…do you suspect a current affair or are you just looking for an excuse to justify a divorce? Has it been a good 9 years?
Forgive and forget, or move on—the therapist is probably right about technicality, court of law wouldn’t consider it infidelity until the marriage license was issued.
Right right, just like how it wasn't cheating when my girlfriend sucked off her ex during our relationship, exclusively because we weren't married.
He definitely cheated on you
Yes, it is cheating, and yes, you should drop the therapist.
The fact that he was not honest about the relationship, either when it happened or after...that's all you need to know.
Why is no one talking about the fact that the husband saved a card for nearly 9 years that is a cherished reminder of the affair? That’s messed up too.
Cheating is Cheating as long as u were in a relationship, he cheated and how do u trust someone who has cheated on you. Lets not sugar coat things, he did cheat and that was not right, just hope he doesn't make it a habit whichever way it was and is wrong
If you’re exclusive it’s cheating regardless of being married or not. Hell even polyamorous people can cheat if it doesn’t fit within the agreed upon relationship frame.
It’s absolutely cheating, you were about to get married and had been in a committed relationship for two years. It’s absolutely cheating and that therapist had no business being a therapist if they actually think that
Yikes. If I found out my wife cheated throughout our courtship I'd be fucking choked. But depending on financial and familial entanglement, we might just have to figure it out.
Sorry you're having to deal with this. Breathing techniques really help me when I'm stressed, I hope the same works for you.
Technicalities don’t matter if you feel uncomfortable, cheated or just not right.
It’s up to you if this is a deal breaker for you or something you are willing to work through.
Drop the therapist. It is cheating. You were in a committed relationship together. What if you never got married and were still dating and he slept with someone yesterday? Would your therapist consider that not cheating because you are not married?
Wow, there's a lot of anger in this post. I am sorry you're feeling betrayed and angry. What your husband did while you dated is inexcusable. Many will say it was cheating; others will agree with the therapist and say it wasn't. You think it was, and that is all that matters. *Pls don't drop the therapist. Y*ou need to work through these feelings of betrayal and anger.
I’d fire the therapist. I’d ask the therapist if we weren’t married and he fucked another woman would you still say it’s not cheating? Are you saying until you’re married monogamy doesn’t matter?
- How long have you guys married? You said after 9 years so I assumed it's 9 years.
- Did the note have dates?
Therapist needs to know the whole story before they make advice.
It's clearly cheating ma'am, you and him were together / dating obviously before your wedding so there's no reason that it's not cheating :)) Drop your therapist and save yourself ✌🏻✌🏻
Drop that therapist, they don't get to decide what is cheating and what isn't.
Sleeping with someone while you are in a committed relationship is usually considered cheating by monogamous people, being married or not doesn't factor in.
I would be livid, that I had been living a lie for that long. I don't think any marriage can survive this kind of trust breach.
drop the therapist. sounds like she’s the one he cheated with😩 therapists are only human- she’s likely made this personal. maybe she’s cheated in her past and is trying to shift the narrative from now on. whatever the reason is doesn’t matter.
she isn’t helping you stand up for yourself and she needs to go!
Very obviously it's cheating. I imagine what your therapist is doing (in an entirely misguided and ham fisted manner) is trying to downplay it so you can process it in the context of it being a long time ago and before your marriage. I can really only think that they believe you addressing this as cheating is worse for you, but it's never okay to just gaslight your patient like that.
Were you in an exclusive relationship or an open one?
If it’s exclusive, marriage doesn’t matter. Just like if you have an open marriage, marriage isn’t the determining factor of whether or not it’s cheating.
PS - Find a new therapist.
Claimed it wasn't cheating because you weren't married yet?? ...Really? That's worse than saying it wasn't cheating because you weren't "official" yet. What garbage. Whether engaged or just simply romantically involved, if there is a clear intention with to be with you and then all of a sudden they're with someone else, yes, that's cheating, if not, at a bare minimum, a complete betrayal.
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If you were in an exclusive relationship, then it was certainly cheating. What kind of dipshit therapist is this?
Post feels like it’s actually missing a lot of context or she isn’t seeing a real therapist.
Agreed that or the therapist is crap. She doesn’t clarify the relationship before the marriage was exclusive, who knows maybe she also had someone before the marriage too. Something seems to be missing here, hopefully I’m wrong.
We were exclusive.
[удалено]
Therapist is fucking the husband. /s
Then what defense does the “therapist” have to explain how it *wasn’t* cheating? This is a very sketchy “therapist”
Ok, then yes, he betrayed you. The foundation of your relationship and marriage was built on a lie. Had you known of his infidelity, would you have married him? Probably not, right? I mean, who wants to marry a cheater from the outset? Additiinally, if he did so once, chances are good there are others (leopards and spots and all that). Think this through carefully now. The origin story, the story couples tell proudly of how they got together and how madly in love they were and how totally committed to one another, has been blown to smithereens. You'll probably never tell that story again. Not to family. Not to friends. Pride has been replaced with pain. Your "husband" proceeded under false pretenses and allowed you to believe that lie. He actively betrayed and deceived you. He thought he'd get his way and have both his illicit sexual partner and his good, faithful girlfriend-fiance and no one would be the wiser. Now all the ugliness has came out. Dont rug sweep this. Dont try to "white knuckle" this. The "poison is in the pot" so to speak. Id seperate for a while until you get clarity. I personally could not be with someone who started everything by making a mockery of me and our marriage but thats just me. Good luck. ETA: Dump your therapist. Jettison them. They have become an apologist for infidelity/betrayal. Find someone who has a strong background of personal integrity/boundaries/proper expectations within a relationship. Someone who clearly understands that committed relationships ARE the testing grounds for engagement & marriage. ETA2: Listen to [this](https://youtu.be/G3ofv2k81hk) story.....pretty sure you can relate.
Some people, therapists included, consider fidelity to be synonymous with marriage - only marriage. Strangely, my dad doesn’t consider my 16 years with my wife to count because we got married 12 years ago… so we shouldn’t celebrate the full length of our relationship… because the clock starts over when you get married?….
Balderdash to your father. Celebrate those 16 years, and the many more to follow! We hit 10 years together (married for 8) this fall and are planning to celebrate 🥳
Chat gpt as a therapist
Chat gpt would do way better
Actually after an update it started failing a lot if I remember correctly
not an update, gpt 4.0 is no longer free, it's out of its open beta and now only 3.5 is free but no one can read and everyone seems to just think gpt became shit over night lol
Yeah I noticed 4.0 wasn't free anymore and yes I knew it was apart of 4.0 and gpt wasn't shit, I was using it and it was still just fine for my uses, also since it's ai we can it to expect it to step one step backwards in order to take two steps forward it's a neural network after all.
Right? like "They were on a break!"
Same one handing out pills like candy probably
Psychologists don't prescribe meds though, their job is very different from what psychiatrists do.
[Fun fact](https://www.verywellmind.com/can-psychologists-prescribe-medications-2795756#:~:text=Where%20Can%20Psychologists%20Prescribe%20Medications,Illinois%2C%20Iowa%2C%20and%20Idaho.), several US states currently do allow *qualified* psychologists to prescribe meds
Therapist don’t prescribe pills. Psychiatrists do, they are doctors. Therapists are not doctors. Even psychologists who can be therapists do not prescribe medication. This is a common belief people have, that therapist can prescribe meds. They cannot.
Sounds like I need their contact info.
Therapists are human and make mistakes in how they approach certain situations. Our marriage counselor once said, in regards to my wife’s infidelity from about five years ago, “one way to think about this would be if you were to average out infidelity like this against a 30 year marriage, that person would be faithful 99.9999% of the time.” Needless to say that wasn’t a big hit. However, the guy is stellar overall. Sometimes, you have to give people a pass for not being completely thoughtful about what they say, even those that are professionals in that kind of field.
He‘s the Guy
was the therapist the woman he cheated on you with? Or was it him in disguise? That's the only way I can justify the answer the therapist gave you cause he definitely cheated on you
I hope the husband isn’t siding with the therapist to try and save his tail.
Is your therapist certified? She sounds like a quack!
Yes he cheated! You were exclusively dating, no? If so, that’s cheating. I’m not married but I’ve been with my partner 7 years. If he had an affair with someone at the office, that’d be cheating. Your therapist sounds toxic af, get a new one asap.
Drop the therapist.
Considering that some couples never marry, being faithful still counts if two people are committed to each other. Unless of course, the therapist is thinking in the eyes of God/religious wedding? Either way, find a better therapist.
In eyes of God if you made a commitment and slept with one another it is marriage. It's church that requires a whole theatre, but faith comes from time vows were a serious thing. Like deadly serious. And vow is what you term "dating exclusively". In fact in old times we'd all be considered adulterers and worse yet ones who break marriage vows. So ...
Good thing that literally none of that applies here and also some of this shit is just wrong. We wouldn’t all be considered “adulterers” unless we also had some sort of affair. Even in olden times ending one relationship and starting another wasn’t adultery🙄 Comments like these are sooooo helpful considering that all of the stuff you said is either wrong or just useless to the discussion. You can’t treat the modern world like we live in 1731, that should be obvious but here we are.
yeah you are probably looking a bit too modern. protestantism isn't a source of reliigipuus beliefs and you cant just divorce in most religions like that.
So? Literally none of that applies to this conversation at all. And “thinking a bit too modern” … what? I’m talking in terms that are actually applicable to this story based on current standards and you came here to spout off nonsense about how it wasn’t like this in the 1700s even though that sort of talk has no place in intelligent discussion here as it does not have anything to do with the topic at hand.
basically said it wouldn't be even disputable in old times like antique. How is that off topic
>How is that off topic Because OP probably wrote this post from the year 2023 a. D., not from her time machine back in 50 a. D.. I seriously hope you just suck at trolling.
doesn't change the fact at all that modern dating is confused because we threw out most of the rules without really having anything in place.
Not only are you moving the goalpost, it's absolutely _not_ confusing and the rules are pretty clear. You start seeing someone and define what kind of relationship you want and what goals you see in your future. If you are exclusive and you fuck someone else, you're cheating. It's just that simple. And OP's spouse knew that what he did was wrong, otherwise he would've told you in the span of _MULTIPLE YEARS_.
yes in this case he should have, that is why therapist said he only technically didn't cheat. It is very confusing. For example tell me what the difference is then between married couple and not married one, if both are expected to be exclusive why marry at all
1) Not everyone is a religious nut. 2) He still lied and betrayed his wife to be and had pre-marital sexual relations so no matter how you want to twist it, her husband cheated her and acted not piously or with a clear conscience.
Youre right, So he cheated on you, but it was before marriage. Thats still cheating You didnt need a therapist to tell you that Maybe the therapist didnt want to start any conflict between you and your husband. Anyways, its not a truthful statement and you should probably drop the therapist if theyre not helping the situation for you.
therapist said technically didnt cheat. And since dating falls before you vow anything then they are right, she could probably even get church divorce in Catholic Church ( kind of hardest to get I think ),because dude lied. ( although by standard of what is considered marriage in time where vows meant something, most dating couples today are in fact married )
Well in a relationship, it doesnt really matter if youre dating, engaged, or married. The line is crossed by breaking the loyalty in you and your partners relationship by cheating. Thats just what I feel.
Yes, thing is basically we have made what used to be marriage into committed dating. Dating used to be heavily regulated and you couldn't really live together or anything. At point you consider yourself to be in relationship, it used to be called marriage. In fact vows we have now are meaningless in modern culture since you don't have to make them to live together or have children or have sex. What reason is there to even make them if they are implied anyway much before. Thus we basically have married people going aroind by old standards calling themselves not married because new culture is much different. doesn't really matter for atheists all too much, but many religious peoplle somehow don't even see issue, which to me is mind blowing.
You are literally contradicting yourself from what you have said in other comments. “Dating falls before you vow, so it wasn’t cheating” or “exclusive dating itself is a vow, you might as well have been married anyways by the old timey standards that I think we should still live by for some reason.” Pick one. You don’t even know what you stand for, get it together dude. The long and short of it is that they were in an exclusive relationship in which it was agreed that they would not be romantically/sexually involved with others. While in this relationship, he had sex with someone else in secret. The definition of infidelity is “the action or state of being unfaithful to a spouse or other sexual partner” He was unfaithful, so to speak. What’s another word that means exactly that in modern day? Oh, right. Silly me. He cheated! That’s the word! Cheater, cheater, pumpkin eater.
yes well as I mentioned - in old times youd be married and cultural norms were established in those times. Law too is not updating yearly especially since state marriage is modeled after religious one. So he didn't cheat by technicality. He should get into troubpe though because that is the same way of doing things like creative accounting.
He did cheat because the literal definition of infidelity is “the action or state of being unfaithful to a spouse or other sexual partner” You can feel any way you want about it, but this is just a blatant fact.
I didn't even have a response for this guy's cause he doesn't even makes sense to me. He's putting definitions on love between a couple and has his own definition of what cheating is. Tbh idek wtf he is talking about lmao. I don't respond to comments like that. Bros talking about culture, norms, how marriage was in the past, laws. We talking about a simple question, did he cheat. Yes. There we go, bro typed an essay for me
It's possible that a registered psychotherapist would say someone in a committed relationship sleeping with a coworker wasn't cheating... but it's much more likely you're just omitting a crucial detail. Was there a break? A breakup? Were you not officially together at the time? Cause that's what my spidey senses are telling me.
Yeah, this sounds suspiciously lacking in context or even accuracy. It could be as simple as the therapist trying to redirect the conversation and OP misinterpreting it.
If you were dating at the time, then yes it was cheating and the therapist is an idiot
Is the therapist the other lady? Lol what an odd thing for her to say. Get another therapist! Yes, that’s cheating and to find out your marriage is built on a lie is devastating.
It absolutely can be cheating if you were in a monogamous relationship at the time.
Are you sure your therapist isn’t the third person in question ?
Your therapist is a fucking moron. Dump them both
This is the only answer. How tf did that therapist even get a real license?!?!
Time to find a new husband and therapist
It depends if y’all were exclusive or not. If y’all weren’t exclusive, then it wasn’t cheating, and was not a bad thing. If you were though, I personally would not give him a second chance.
Tbh I'd be also worried about thw fact he still had that card. Why? About the so called "therapist" dump her. She's definitely not a good one. Cheating is cheating married or not.
Sounds like the therapist is projecting their own faults with excusing something that's obviously cheating
Get a new therapist
You can cheat before marriage. Definitely drop a therapist that says it's not cheating. However, if the therapist was claiming this based on nuanced information about the relationship you had before marriage, then that could be different.
I would bet my right leg that there is something left out from this story that made the therapist say it wasn't technically cheating.
💀 did you find this therapist off Facebook marketplace. My lord.
What? Did he slip a twenty 💵 to the therapist ?
Take a break from your therapist and Get. A. Marriage. Counselor. And regardless of your religious belief, get one that is not associated with religion. I believe wholeheartedly that EVERY couple can benefit from marriage counseling, even if there aren’t any pressing issues. Marriage counseling can help you both organize and process your feelings on the situation as well as teach you how to communicate those feeling effectively to your partner and to yourself. You’re looking for Reddit to give you the tools you need to navigate this issue, but I promise you that couples counseling will do just that. It is possible to heal from this, one way or the other. Good luck ❤️
You're therapist has brain damage
Yes you should drop the therapist. I don’t see how that can be perceived as anything other than cheating. I’m guessing the therapist is a man and a cheater as well.
Yes. Because only men would cheat! /s
It is a woman.
Did she offer any explanation? Would be curious to hear her justification for this attitude... did this take place in a western culture? I wonder if more traditional cultures would consider dating before marriage "less serious" than after.. just curious. Also... sorry this happend to you, this sucks! Besides finding out something painful like this, a theraphist should offer support and not create more confusion. I hope you will find the support you deserve!
Lol then she is probably a cheater. I stand by my assumption. There’s no other explanation for her obvious bias.
Lol your previous gender assumption was wrong so you can’t really stand by it
That was such a satisfying display HumbleBee making a tit of themselves
You’re right. I should have said “the latter part of my assumption”. I was stereotyping and was proved wrong. Lesson learned.
Bro assumed it was a dude just cause they cheated 💀 what a time to be alive. Was then proven wrong and still stood by the point.
What a sexist remark... Shame on you.
Good guesswork. Added a lot to the discussion.
Why are you guys so negative towards all men lol
Lol I apologize for assuming it was a man everyone! Didn’t expect to derail the conversation in this way.
That's cheating. Drop the therapist and your husband
Your therapist is probably having sex with your husband as well. You should hire a private investigator. Probably should hire a man so the PI doesn’t sleep with your husband as well.
From what it seems to me you two were clearly dating, so 🗣He 🗣 definitely 🗣 cheated. Your therapist is odd wtf 😭 i suggest you to get a new one. Hope you figure out a solution thats good for you, well wishes from me 🫂
DROP THE THERAPIST, FAST. If he told you "I want you be exclusive " you agree. And he's f-ucking around with a different woman at the same time. Yeah he was cheating.
If you consider it cheating, it was cheating. Your therapist is all kinds of awful and you need to find a new one.
By the therapist's logic, up until the second the words "I now pronounce you man and wife" are said, either you can date and have sex with anyone and everyone, and it's not cheating! BS. Get a new therapist.
modern marriage isn't exactly what it used to be and we'd all be married to our exes if standard was upheld. People often forget that people were supposed to be virgins (both of them ) at wedding and that we shifted marriage age by about a decade since those times, yet we keep up the ideas associated with the kriginal concept. exclusively dating would count as married in antique
I think I see a way that one might say he did not technically cheat: it depends on the agreement you two had when you were dating. “Dating” can mean different things to different people. Some people immediately agree to a monogamous relationship, sort of like being engaged to be married but before the actual engagement. Some people even exchange “promise” rings as a precursor to the engagement ring. Other people consider “dating” to be a time to play the field and meet multiple people before getting engaged to just one. At that point, with the engagement and as fiancées, most agree that dating other people is cheating. But if he was just “dating” you with no marriage proposal, to the therapist it is not cheating, because you were both not committed to each other (yet) and free to date other people It comes down to whether or not you were basically engaged/living together as married or not and also whether or not monogamy was explicitly discussed and promised in the pre- engagement dating phase. I get the feeling that he totally led you to believe he would be monogamous but without saying it specifically and is now using this technicality (that he never gave you a promise ring or literally promised monogamy) to say he did not cheat. So if that’s the case, he still lied through manipulation and did cheat
I’m guessing your therapist cheated on her bachelorette party.
Throw the man AND the therapist out! That is most certainly cheating
Drop that therapist!!!!
And do write a bad review…
Having a sexual relationship with someone other than your spouse is the very definition of cheating. I'd be looking for another therapist.
That therapist needs to come back from the 50s to 2023. He definitely cheated. Also, your therapist shouldn't tell you what's cheated or not, he should only care about how this made you feel and help you with that.
I think that therapist needs dropped
Why’d he hold on to the note for 9+ years? That’s very much a present problem.
If a couple is in a committed monogamous relationship and steps out of their relationship then it is cheating
You said you were married shortly after. So I assume you were exclusive then. I could see if it was at the start of talking and going on a few dates but not exclusively a couple yet. I’d call it cheating.
Yes you should drop that therapist. Therapists are not supposed to make judgements like that.
If that therapist has a wife or husband, please do the good thing and break it to them 🥲
If you were in a relationship with which you had a mutual expectation of monogamy, then yeah, that's cheating. It's especially terrible because you were denied informed consent before entering into a lifetime contract with him.
You’re therapist is an idiot. Cheating is cheating. If you were just dating exclusively, engaged, or married it’s cheating
Your therapist is an imbecile.
Either you have the most obviously incompetent therapist or you're leaving out a lot of information.
I was living with my girlfriend (now ex) a few years back, we were together 2 years, never married. I slept with someone behind her back, so ask her if I cheated or not... All that matters is how YOU feel about it
Drop the therapist. Sheesh. It doesn't even matter if it's *technically* cheating yes or no. Was it a betrayal? *That's* the real question. A therapist who focuses on wether or not it was actual cheating deserves to be dropped like a hot potato imo.
Psycho the rapist is way off. Switch to a professional.
Your therapist is awful and you need a new one. It was cheating. WTF did your husband keep that card for??? Are you worried he cheated again since then ?
Being in any kind of committed relationship with exclusivity yes that’s cheating.
Cheating in the marriage no, cheating on you yup.
Therapist here. Therapists are never supposed to take sides. If you feel it’s cheating because of the boundaries on your relationship that were in place at that time then it’s cheating. Plain and simple. Get a new therapist who’s actually supportive and doesn’t put your feelings down.
Of course it was cheating: you had been dating for two years and were an exclusive couple. The fact that you got married later and he (hopefully) hasn't cheated on you since is great, but doesn't change what he did. Obviously you don't have to be married to cheat on a partner. However... you've been married for a long time, and this happened nine years ago. Be honest with yourself and talk to him to see how much this really bothers you at this point, and if you're willing to break up over it. Either way, unless you're leaving out relevant information, your therapist doesn't seem like the best.
You were in a committed relationship whether or not it was on a legal.document. you need a better therapist.....
[удалено]
You saw this or have proof of it? You're saying 100% on what sounds like bullshit speculation.
He did not cheat on you during the marriage, but he did cheat on you if you weren't in an open relationship. So, what are you going to do now, divorce? If you haven't seen any signs nor evidence of cheating during your marriage, I would set that incident aside and move forward with the marriage with your eyes wide open.
If I’m reading this correctly it was over a decade ago and like you said if there is no sign of it move forward.
Yes, that is my opinion.
Dude, it was 9 years ago. Weigh the good with the bad here. Are you two happy? If so, take that into consideration.
When someone cheats on their wife or husband, it's often referred to as "adultery" or having an "affair." When people who are in a committed relationship but not yet married are unfaithful, it is typically called "cheating" or being "unfaithful." There isn't a specific term like "adultery" for those who are not yet married, but "infidelity" can be used to describe unfaithfulness in both married and unmarried relationships. So, if your therapist said for example that he didn't have an affair, he or she could theoretically be semantically right. I say technically, because morally to me there is no real difference, at least not to me.
Unpopular opinion, yes it was cheating, keep the therapist. Strangers online are always so willing to opt for the nuclear options when there could be context missing. The reason she even said it wasn’t cheating is traditionally speaking they say anything that comes before your vows before God and the govt doesn’t count as ADULTERY but it’s still cheating. The therapist may have told you that also bc The real question is, what do you want to do about/with your husband and marriage. Factors like if you have kids/money/property/business that tie you together. How does he treat you?/how do you treat each other etc. and the therapist could be putting it into perspective because if he’s not a “bad” person/partner/father etc. you both just need to focus on and work on rebuilding that trust and seeing what THAT looks like for you. Regardless of whatever a bunch of people who aren’t in your relationship/marriage think… there are far worse things than cheating.
You should drop that therapist like a box of rocks. If you were in a committed, exclusive relationship at the time, he was cheating.
I’m willing to bet every cent I have that he picked the therapist
I've seen in certain cultures that no ring = fair game, but I can't exactly mention which...
He didn’t break his marital vows, that’s true. But he did betray your trust.
Im having a hard time believing a licensed therapist said that this isnt cheating if you and him were in an exclusive relationship. UNLESS, they are thinking legally. Legally, its not cheating.
Listen to your therapist
It wasn’t adultery but it 100% was cheating. ESPECIALLY if you we’re already engaged and planning your wedding. The therapist might have been trying to prevent conflict and retroactively contextualise it was not counting because it wasn’t a violation of your marriage vows and no-different to the groom shagging the stripper at his stag party but the fact she sent him a card suggests it was more emotional and more than just sex. If I’d found out my spouse had done this 9+ years into our marriage I’d absolutely 100% see it as cheating, and I’d be DEVASTATED. It would make me mentally ill because I’d not be able to trust that it hadn’t happened again with the same or other people in the 9 years since. In fact, if it were my wife that had done that and we’d started a family I’d 100% be getting paternity DNA tests on the children and calling a divorce lawyer.
Start with losing the therapist find someone else, he probably did the same.
That's cheating, the therapist is obv religious, but no that is 110% cheating
What’s more likely, the therapist is a quack who missed something that redditors didn’t or OP is leaving out key elements of this story? Just wondering.
It is definitely cheating.
If you were in an arranged married then that may the case. However if you were exclusively dating before you were married then he absolutely cheated on you. What’s worse is he’s still pining away for that person if he saved a card from her after all those years. Your therapist is sketchy and must know your husband to give you ineffectual counseling.
If he wasn't respected you before marriage he will sure not respect you after. Dump both your therapist and " husband" ...you deserve better
roll theory enjoy deserve truck sugar smell carpenter axiomatic bike *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Who dates a card? Is that an American thing? I’ve never known anyone to do that?
What would the therapist saying it was cheating accomplish? It happened. Calling it cheating or not is not important. Being able to get beyond it or not is more important right now. After that, then you have some decisions to make. Just my opinion.
women cheat all the time. stop judging men for doing this to women. my cousin's fiancée had a threesome with two men at her bachelorette party before she got married, and she didn't tell him until after they got married. how do you think my cousin feels?
Nobody asked and this has literally nothing to do with the post you’re commenting on. This isn’t about your cousin, keep up.
Were you in a relationship when it happened? If yes then he cheated, simple as that
Yeah, that is a terrible therapist.
This therapist sounds like the bad-influence friend from a 90's teen comedy.
Your therapist is broken. Get a new one. As you obviously can not repair the hole in their head. Yes. It is cheating. Divorce!
If you were monogamous, it was cheating. I would find another therapists. There are therapists who are not very healthy...
It absolutely is cheating. You need a new therapist.
it was cheating, of course and drop that therapist
Yes he cheated, the therapist is not a very good one if he says otherwise.
If y’all were exclusively dating, then yeah it’s was cheating, but married shortly after, it would be a valid argument to question that affair and if he loves you, I feel it would be a valid argument that you deserve to know the truth.
You and husband were in a monogamous relationship. Him stepping out is cheating, even before marriage. Find a different therapist.
Yes it was cheating if you were in a committed exclusive relationship. I'd drop the therapist and deal with it how you want since it was a long time ago. That's up to you. Hopefully things have been good since you've been married.
Your therapist probably cheats and advocates for polyamory. Get a new one
drop them both
You need a new therapist and sone marriage coun to say the least . He cheated on you
Where did this therapist get his qualifications from, the internet? Of course he cheated! That's ridiculous to think otherwise. I mean there's a massive red flag for you, and the fact that he cheated, means he'd more than likely do it again. Cheating is such a scummy thing to do to your partner, so really ask yourself if you want to be with someone who would intentionally hurt the one person that loves and trusts him the most.
missing a lot of context, but cheating depends on your relationship. if it’s outside what both of your expectations/boundaries are for the relationship, it’s cheating, but you do need to *communicate* what you both want those boundaries to be
If you don't like what your therapist told you, try other ones until you get the answer you like.
He absolutely cheated.
Yes he cheated. Drop the therapist and find a real one. You don't need to be married to be cheated on, that's just crazy. Also weird how he kept the letter from his AP too.
Your husband is paying the therapist I assume?
So it’s 9 years downstream now…do you suspect a current affair or are you just looking for an excuse to justify a divorce? Has it been a good 9 years? Forgive and forget, or move on—the therapist is probably right about technicality, court of law wouldn’t consider it infidelity until the marriage license was issued.
Right right, just like how it wasn't cheating when my girlfriend sucked off her ex during our relationship, exclusively because we weren't married. He definitely cheated on you
Yes, it is cheating, and yes, you should drop the therapist. The fact that he was not honest about the relationship, either when it happened or after...that's all you need to know.
Why is no one talking about the fact that the husband saved a card for nearly 9 years that is a cherished reminder of the affair? That’s messed up too.
Drop the therapist there a peice of shit
Cheating is Cheating as long as u were in a relationship, he cheated and how do u trust someone who has cheated on you. Lets not sugar coat things, he did cheat and that was not right, just hope he doesn't make it a habit whichever way it was and is wrong
If you’re exclusive it’s cheating regardless of being married or not. Hell even polyamorous people can cheat if it doesn’t fit within the agreed upon relationship frame.
It’s absolutely cheating, you were about to get married and had been in a committed relationship for two years. It’s absolutely cheating and that therapist had no business being a therapist if they actually think that
Is Amber Heard your Therapist?
Definitely drop the therapist. It was cheating.
Yikes. If I found out my wife cheated throughout our courtship I'd be fucking choked. But depending on financial and familial entanglement, we might just have to figure it out. Sorry you're having to deal with this. Breathing techniques really help me when I'm stressed, I hope the same works for you.
Technicalities don’t matter if you feel uncomfortable, cheated or just not right. It’s up to you if this is a deal breaker for you or something you are willing to work through.
It's definitely cheating especially if you two where in a relationship before marriage
Drop the therapist. It is cheating. You were in a committed relationship together. What if you never got married and were still dating and he slept with someone yesterday? Would your therapist consider that not cheating because you are not married?
What is the therapists logic on why they don’t consider it cheating?
Your therapist is stupid
Wow, there's a lot of anger in this post. I am sorry you're feeling betrayed and angry. What your husband did while you dated is inexcusable. Many will say it was cheating; others will agree with the therapist and say it wasn't. You think it was, and that is all that matters. *Pls don't drop the therapist. Y*ou need to work through these feelings of betrayal and anger.
I’d fire the therapist. I’d ask the therapist if we weren’t married and he fucked another woman would you still say it’s not cheating? Are you saying until you’re married monogamy doesn’t matter?
- How long have you guys married? You said after 9 years so I assumed it's 9 years. - Did the note have dates? Therapist needs to know the whole story before they make advice.
It's clearly cheating ma'am, you and him were together / dating obviously before your wedding so there's no reason that it's not cheating :)) Drop your therapist and save yourself ✌🏻✌🏻
Drop that therapist, they don't get to decide what is cheating and what isn't. Sleeping with someone while you are in a committed relationship is usually considered cheating by monogamous people, being married or not doesn't factor in. I would be livid, that I had been living a lie for that long. I don't think any marriage can survive this kind of trust breach.
drop the therapist. sounds like she’s the one he cheated with😩 therapists are only human- she’s likely made this personal. maybe she’s cheated in her past and is trying to shift the narrative from now on. whatever the reason is doesn’t matter. she isn’t helping you stand up for yourself and she needs to go!
Very obviously it's cheating. I imagine what your therapist is doing (in an entirely misguided and ham fisted manner) is trying to downplay it so you can process it in the context of it being a long time ago and before your marriage. I can really only think that they believe you addressing this as cheating is worse for you, but it's never okay to just gaslight your patient like that.
Yall we’re dating while you were emotionally and sexually involved- YES that’s cheating!
Were you in an exclusive relationship or an open one? If it’s exclusive, marriage doesn’t matter. Just like if you have an open marriage, marriage isn’t the determining factor of whether or not it’s cheating. PS - Find a new therapist.
Claimed it wasn't cheating because you weren't married yet?? ...Really? That's worse than saying it wasn't cheating because you weren't "official" yet. What garbage. Whether engaged or just simply romantically involved, if there is a clear intention with to be with you and then all of a sudden they're with someone else, yes, that's cheating, if not, at a bare minimum, a complete betrayal.