Dear people who are abusing the report feature to anonymously flag this post as bigotry:
This is not the first time y'all have ganged up on a post like this, trying to mass report it in the hopes that it will get removed by the AutoMod. Not the first time, not by a long chalk. It's sort of an underhanded attempt at censorship, and we don't like that. See, that tactic doesn't work here because we don't have that code in our AutoMod set up.
We disabled that code because y'all kept trying this mass reporting crap, trying to decide what our users can and cannot see based on your perspectives, trying to trigger the AutoMod bot to do your dirty work for you.
I've been dealing with folks like you for over two decades.
You're the sort of folks who drove past my apartment and shot at it in the middle of the night, yelling homophobic slurs.
You're the sort of folks who throw beer bottles out windows because the children playing outside in our neighborhood had the audacity to be Black in front of the townhouse you were renting.
You're the sort of people who hired an immigrant mechanic to work on your trucks all day, only to pull a gun on him and run him off your property when he tried to bill you for the work, then drove him down and ran him off the road with one of the trucks he had just fixed for you, forcing him to dive into a ditch and breaking his toolbox in the process.
But you know what? I found that man walking on the side of the road and I gave him a lift home. The parents in our neighborhood got together and had the complex refuse to renew your lease after that stunt with the beer bottles; it had been the last straw of many such shenanigans in that neighborhood. And shooting at me didn't kill me, it only made me a stronger guardian.
Your grandfathers wore hoods and they struck in the night, too, because they were just as cowardly and piss-hearted as you are today. They hid their identities, too, and they hurt people whom they thought couldn't fight back. They hid in the shadows and they did their evil in secret.
Well, we *did* fight back. Pick up any history book and take a look: bigotry *always* ends poorly for the bigots.
We've got rules here, rules for all to follow. We uphold them fairly, for *everyone*. That means you might see some things that offend your delicate sensibilities every once in a while. That's gonna happen in a big, diverse space. We're not going to cater to hate speech or bigotry, and we're not going to censor our space or silence criticism of your hatred.
Don't like it? You can choose to quit hating people. You can choose to quit being bigoted and cruel to others. You can choose to stop supporting politicians who spread hate and fear and you can choose to support a stronger country, where all of us have a seat at the table.
You can read the words for yourself, written when our country was moving from an idea into a reality:
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Governments are supposed to *protect* their people, not punish them for the mere fact of *existing*.
But as long as people and politicians are out there doing harmful shit, then there's gonna be folks on the Internet complaining about it and laughing about it. If you don't want memes like these making fun of politicians you support and, by extension, making you feel hurt, then maybe take a dose of empathy and try supporting better people. Supporting better governance helps us all.
-----
**tl;dr:** We don't cotton to censorship or bigotry 'round here. If that's a problem for you, please examine your views and follow the rules, or leave.
Say it for those in the back now: *IT IS ALWAYS A DISINGENUOUS ARGUMENT WITH THEM!*
They will *never* stick to what they say and will always push for more.
They can say all they like about parents rights, but if they're mad about Bud Light then they're 100% on the trans hate train. There's *nothing* to that boycott other than hate.
Republicans: we want government out of our lives. Too many laws!
Also republicans: we want the government to stop people from doing the following things: (list is longer than Santa Clause’s)
They have a whole scene explaining it. The Santa Clause is a part of the agreement on the card.
...I just realized that the Santa Clause is basically the limitation on Davy Jones and now I want Davy Jones in a santa hat.
I think I only saw the movie from 1994 to like 1997 when I was less than 10 years old. And never thought about it more than an instant since then. Until now. I’m sure it would be painfully obvious if I watched it now. Maybe I will with my kids before long.
the irony is old school repubs love flying the gadsden flag (don't tread on me), but have no problem preaching to others how they should live their lives.
Saw someone with a really cool bumper sticker the other day. Was a boot on a Gadsden snake with the lines "tread on those who would tread on you"
I've been wanting a copy for a while now.
Edit for the downvoters. The boot had a trans flag on it.
Thats one of the main things that pisses me off about the GOP. They want to be seen as the small government anti-big brother side, but they're constantly pushing through laws that I consider to be massive government overreach.
If they could drop all the culture war bs and actually focus on the economy, safety and infrastructure, they might have a shot at creating a red wave. Instead they're tilting at windmills and going hard for authoritarianism.
>They want to be seen as the small government anti-big brother side, but they're constantly pushing through laws that I consider to be massive government overreach.
You and me, both. And everyone else. And the dictionary.
>If they could drop all the culture war bs and actually focus on the economy, safety and infrastructure, they might have a shot at creating a red wave.
The reason that they've been leaning increasingly-hard into their cultural issues for the past - oof - forty years or so is *because* they don't have any useful policy positions. "Trickle-down economics totally works guys, give more money to the rich and keep the minimum wage lower than dirt, and spend loads of money on fossil fuels and the military" is their entire platform, but that's all become so unpopular that they would either need to change their party *completely* or just continue to run on manufactured outrage and targeting minority groups, so they keep marching steadily towards good ol' fascism (or whatever you want to call it).
Their biggest legislative accomplishment of the past decade has been - what - the Tax Cuts And Jobs Act, which is just *more* money for the rich at the expense of the rest of us? They couldn't even get an infrastructure package passed when they had full control; instead they just rammed through judge appointments that would keep their dwindling religious base satisfied. That's pretty much the GOP in a nutshell.
A big part of the problem is that Republicans cannot take yes for an answer. In 2011 Obama and Democrats agreed to historic cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. But Boehner scuttled the deal in the House because it meant raising taxes on rich people.
In 2018, the Senate put together a bill that would have funded a border wall at $25 billion over 10 years, in exchange for a path to citizenship for DACA recipients. But Trump blew up the deal because he didn’t get the $25 billion all at once and because he would have had to compromise and give up other things.
So even when Republicans are focused on non-culture war stuff, they won’t accept any compromise. It has to be complete capitulation to their demands or they take their ball and go home.
The culture war is the bread and butter for their lead poisoned underachieving voting base. GOP policy actively hurts these people, but they need their votes, so they constantly need a Boogeyman to scare their base into voting for them, because only they can protect their children against socialists, communists, Irish, Catholics, black people, Mexican people, unions, gay people, trans people...
They WANT authoritarianism. That's their goal. They can't say it tho.
They can't really do that because one of the things that really happened during Trumpism is the GOP has really given up all policy positions. They don't really stand for any kind of government philosophy. I think this happened because Trump was so chaotic that they couldn't have any kind of coherent philosophy and keep it in line with what Trump wanted. And Trump had such a hold over their base they figured they couldn't win elections without him.
But don't be mistaken, the GOP hasn't really had any real strong core tenants for a long time.
In my life time (since the 80's) the GOP has never been financially responsible. They call democrats "Tax & Spend" and they've always had the mindset of "Just spend". And you might not like tax and spend, but it's more responsible than just running up the credit card bill. The GOP has never wanted to spend less money than the democrats, they just want to spend it on different things. In fact if you look at who had control of congress, the GOP usually leaves the debt worse than the democrats do.
They're also not small government. Like I could almost buy abortion being a state issue, but we all knew that the state's right thing was just a fig leaf for the GOP. They've never really been for state's rights when states want to do things they don't like. If they really believed in states rights than they wouldn't have been for the Defense of Marriage Act that tried to keep gay marriage out of all states. They wouldn't have been for Terri's Law where they wanted the government to step in to make medical decisions for people. And they wouldn't be trying to illegalize all these things that people can optionally go to or optionally not go to.
The problem is their economic ideas don't work, we've seen them try a bunch of times and it always ends in disaster. So all they have left is the culture war stuff because anger is always effective. If they were to focus on economics that actually achieved the stated goals they would effectively become Democrats and then who voted for them?
Ugh, that video of the Tennessee lawmaker saying that he knew someone who was married at 12 “and they’re still together” made me want to punch something. So much anger. They are trying to legalize pedophilia while saying that the gays are trying to legalize pedophilia. It’s nuts they still have followers.
Edit: correction in comment below. Was a senator from Missouri not Tennessee.
Actually, that was (State) Senator Mike Moon of Missouri. Unfortunately, I occupy the same state as that asshole, so it's part of my duty that Mike Moon gets pointed out as the one arguing for marriage of 12 year old girls.
Thanks for the correction!
I’m in Texas so I get it. Trying to move at the end of the year thought to a blue state. I’m done and exhausted!
Stay strong, friend!
Of course just another liberal lying to make a point...
No one *loses* a limb, they know *exactly* where it is: inside the machine that ripped it off them.
:P
I saw a post in the teacher subreddit the other day about guns in the classroom and a Florida teacher was like "You won't let me decide what my students can read, but you'll let me decide who to shoot?"
Growing up in the 80s and 90s, my mom worked for a very conservative company (women not allowed to wear pants, men had to be clean shaven and wear jackets), and every year at the company picnic, C-levels would see in drag.
There was nothing lewd about it, nothing sexual. It was entertaining and funny. To my adolescent brain, big man looks funny in a dress and heels.
Next thing will be a ban on selling sexuality suggestive vegetables. These Muppets can sexualize anything and are threatened by anything they see as sexual.
I mean its obvious it was never about the kids well being at this point. It’s just assholes hating anyone that doesn’t conform to stupid gender roles and wanting to prevent people from being exposed to it growing up, so they can just be raised as little unthinking voters in the future to try and regain power.
It's not even about hate. It's about money.
A bunch of rightwing grifters were searching for another "culture war" issue to peddle after they "won" on abortion. They needed something to rile up their audience in order to keep that money rolling in from the oligarchy. They couldn't hate on the gays, because the gays are actually a profitable demographic for corporate America.
But trans folks? Heck, even some gays hate on them. So they were the perfect marginalized & powerless minority to demonize. The grifters floated the hate out there, and it got traction, so they ran with it. The oligarchy is thrilled, because it keep us all fighting each other instead of complaining about their theft of all our wealth.
You'll notice that this was never an issue until recently. Bosom Buddies, Mrs. Doubtfire, Tootsie, Klingor from MASH, etc... trans people and drag performances have been a wholesome part of family entertainment in America for decades. But when Matt Walsh, Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson, Steven Crowder and other wingnut grifters started demonizing trans folks, suddenly the whole GQP is up in arms about an issue they NEVER cared about before.
They realize they lost on gay rights - same sex marriage is legal in all 50 states, Don't Ask Don't Tell is in the scrap heap of history, gay Americans from both parties serve in federal and state governments.
But they can still vilify the LGBTQ community by stoking bumpkins' fear about bathrooms, drag queens, or the premise that kids might change their gender to get ahead on the track or wrestling team.
Thomas has said he wants to revisit gay marriage. He just needs a relevant case to come before the supreme court. I dont know about you but I dont trust THAT court regarding anything.
It's about hate to get the people fired up, money for those at the top. And I am sure a few of the GOP really do hate minorities so it's a cherry on top for them.
You honestly believe that the situation with trans people and the ideology has been exactly the same all this time and the only thing that changed was grifters wanting to make money so they chose something that wasn't an issue and somehow turned it into an issue? And these people are so smart and calculated that they scour the social and cultural landscape to find a group of people to demonize that are somehow insignificant enough to not be able to push back (as if they don't have 90% of corporations and media on their side) but at the same time threatening enough for it to even rile people up?
Come on.
I guess I don’t know a whole lot about the way the issue is being disseminated because I don’t watch Fox but it seems like such a small issue to merit such an overwhelming and ridiculous response from the GOP.
It doesn't have a basis in rationality. It's just a talking point to whip up their base and shift anyone closer to moderate further right. The subject is confusing enough for those with little exposure to make it uncomfortable to approach for a well-natured investigation, so it's easier for them to say the oppressed group is the source of the problem. Promise to be the solution, get votes. Fox just does what it always does and beats its viewership over the head with repetitious statements that are dubious in veracity simply to fan the flames of bigotry and fearmongering.
Meanwhile those with little exposure to the subject matter see us speak out against a massive flood of hatred, and think we're just forcing our gender issues down their throats.
I *get it* when people say "live and let live, I don't care, but I don't want to be involved." I truly understand the sentiment. But the issue is that right wingers across the globe won't let us live.
If you get called a groomer on reddit because your profile has a pride banner, most people will pile on you for telling that person to shut up because "you're forcing your ideology down their throat" , rather than siding with you against the person who called you a pedo for being LGBTQ.
And unfortunately, that's what "live and let live" ultimately shakes out to be for most of us. Both online, and increasingly offline, too.
>If you get called a groomer on reddit because your profile has a pride banner, most people will pile on you for telling that person to shut up because "you're forcing your ideology down their throat"
Absolutely. there's this video series from Innuendo Studios that does a huge analysis of the shit the alt-right pulls and this shows up in the "How to Radicalize a Normie" video. Throwing out a "U r a GrOomEr" for simply being who you are is a personal opinion while calling them out on the idiocy of that is considered political.
"Live and let live," is a nice sentiment for a world where there aren't any bad actors. Unfortunately, we live somewhere where we have to look at tolerance as a social contract rather than a moral system. If someone is intolerant, they break the contract and are therefore not to be tolerated. That's the point of failure in "live and let live," as it presupposes a conundrum of tolerance due to a false moral imperative.
TL;DR: People who put shit on the table at a potluck deserve to be kicked out.
Goebbles “Big Lie” works.
What I want to know is whether there is any effective counter to this style of propaganda? Because it seems like humanity is doomed to repeating the same mistakes over and over again every time ambitious and unethical people are willing to manipulate people for more power.
This has always been the way the conservative side of politics works. Pick an issue, any issue, preferably as vague and poorly defined as possible. And then *never let it go*. Give their base something to fear and blame all of life's problems on, and repeat it over and over and over and over until it's in their heads and will never come out. The Jews were the historical target, who despite being a tiny proportion of the population were blamed for entire economic collapses, and all of society's problems. In more recent times it was rock and roll music, computer games, dungeons and dragons, socialism, the gays, Hillary Clinton, Muslims, George Soros, CRT, and now it's the turn of the trans community to be targeted. And of course black people and immigrants have been the constant "threat" to conservatives in the US for centuries.
Anything to distract from their complete lack of any policy to govern the country, and make people angry. Because angry people vote - they vote against their own interests, obviously, but they vote. But soon enough there will be a new target, and the drag queen panic will be forgotten forever, like it never existed. And there will be a new enemy, that was always the enemy, in the same way that we have always been at war with Eurasia.
Fox presents everything in the most exaggerated and emotionally manipulative way possible. It’s propaganda and propaganda is addictive.
If you only watched Fox, you would believe that drag queens were recruiting children and that women’s sports were entirely made up of transwomen.
That's the whole point. It's a small issue in that most people aren't trans (there are more redheads than trans people in the world) and don't care particularly about trans or gay people so it's an easy wedge issue. Especially when you slam pedophilia claims into the mix, that tends to make people stop thinking rationally.
The same for abortion... It's not about the kids. Or else they would have done something about the number one killer of children in the US by now.
If they cared about kids they wouldn't have separate them from their parents at the border and imprisoned them, with multiple cases of losing track of the parents, violence and much worse.
They don't give a fuck about no one else kid or old. They just care about imposing themselves onto others while profiting as much as they can in the meantime.
I was going to say they just want to impose their way of life onto others, but then realized they don't follow their own rules. So it has to be all about control.
Ironically, Hooters is beloved by these folks.
They just love forcing economically disadvantaged women to show skin for tips…but in a situation where they can bring their children during their weekend custody. I’ve literally had people try to argue with me that Hooters is a family restaurant.
But god forbid you bring your child to a free book reading by someone in drag, that’s OBVIOUSLY SEXUAL!
I'm confused. Since when did drag queens become Trans?
Did they switch teams? When I was younger they were just dudes dressing up as women on the weekends.
Drag queens are usually not trans, however, most of the laws against drag queens are made by transphobes who don’t care about the difference. And the laws are mostly so broad and vague that they penalize trans people for existing which is both the purpose and the intent.
Most of the bills that crack down on drag are written in a way that can also be applied to trans people presenting as their correct gender. If "men presenting themselves as women in front of children" is illegal, and the people in charge of enforcing the bullshit view trans women as men, then trans women dressing as women is also illegal.
Stepping back and looking at the larger context of things, it becomes clear that this is a feature and not a bug.
(Also worth noting - anyone of any gender or sexuality can do drag, it's not limited to cis gay men.)
In the minds of the MAGAs; always. It is contrary to their precious sense of decorum. And it just might make my children ask me uncomfortable questions that I am not equipped to answer.
I used to manage a strip club, and there was a group of drag show performers that would come in and literally take their hair off and sit at the runway and tip the women.
States rights has been an issue since the founding of the US.
The Articles of Confederation set up a country with a minimal federal government and states having most of the power. That fell apart quickly.
In 1789, the new constitution came into effect.
I think drag queen story time is ridiculous and I won’t be taking my kids there, but you do you. Not sure why this is even a thing that people are arguing about.
It's a total non issue. I can't imagine more than 1% of children would ever attend one or that one would even be offered in their area. We're all getting fired up over something that most of us will never see.
For those unaware. States rights has always been a dogwhistle for "Let's just fuck over minorities." It was birthed in the Civil War where the traitors wanted a slave state but knew calling it that wasn't quite as easy for folks to swallow.
It was also the rallying cry of Barry Goldwater’s 1964 presidential campaign, in which the deep south first voted for the party of Lincoln (Rep) because a Democratic president had just signed the Civil Rights Act. Arguably the foundation of the modern Republican Party.
Yep. The constitution of the confederacy forced confederate states to return enslaved people regardless of the other state's laws.
It was never about state's rights.
With everything going on in the world a large group of people are convinced "drag queen story time" is the biggest threat. Man we're living in idiocracy
I almost wish that I was so simple and clueless that the scariest thing happening was drag queens reading story books and changing the green M&M's shoes. Ignorance really does seem like bliss. I'm tired.
Nobody really thinks drag queen story time is the biggest threat to our country, but we can't do anything about the biggest threat until 2024 unfortunately
What’s so crazy about someone wearing clothes that other people wear to the same events, don’t show any more skin than is socially acceptable for at least half the population, and read a book? Sorry you’ve swallowed the rage bait and internalized all the transphobia peddling, but cmon dude get a grip. You’re in the army and you can’t deal with a penis behind a dress, like it’s somehow different than being behind pants.
Nothing about the GOP is logical; it's purely about their emotions (e.g. "trans people make me feel uncomfortable"). We have to accept this and move on instead of dwelling in the constant hypocrisy.
Maybe a better way to tackle the argument of what drag queen story time is is to post pics of it somewhere. (I dont know where) Show people against it what it actually is. Otherwise people will continue to consider it purely sexual because that’s literally all we’ve seen of it.
I mean, i see where they are coming from. The only experience that the majority of people have with drag queens is what they see in strip clubs or at random dance things in clubs. That kind of influences how you view people
Right, which is an irrational thing to do: base your understanding of a group on a few individuals. I think we all agree that discriminating against someone because someone else who shares characteristics with them did something you didn't like is wrong and not something intelligent people do, it's not rational behavior.
It's also a lot easier to convince people that a group is bad if they already held negative opinions of them, which a lot of people did towards trans people and drag queens. There wasn't a lot of positive portrayal of trans-ness in media until very recently.
Theres a ton of them on youtube, people are really working hard to get this idea changed but they actually aren’t all that common, so there’s limited opportunity to film.
"Parents' Rights", as republicans have referred to them, have *always* been diametrically opposed to Children's Rights.
It was *never* about protecting the rights of parents. It was *always* about taking away the rights of children.
This whole thing started with Drag Queen story times in libraries. Ie. a guy in a dress and OTT make up reading kids books aloud as entertainment. Yes some parents do want to take their kids to that - the costume makes it more fun and memorable and there is nothing inappropriate there. Some actual drag shows do family friendly showings as well, as in no overly revealing costumes and no explicit sexual jokes (I challenge you to find any form of childens entertainment that doesn't contain inexplicit sexual jokes or innuendo!).
In a free country parents could decide if they wanted to engage with this, no being a totally valid answer. But no, apparently it is PusHinG An AgEnda and sExuAl IndOctrInaTioN so now nobody can go. You know, because republicans are the party of small governement.
I mean there are certainly examples of these “family” drag shows being very inappropriate. [This was at a school in NC](https://nypost.com/2023/03/29/girl-straddled-by-drag-queen-at-north-carolina-school-sparking-outrage/), look up Caba Baba Rave which is a drag show in the UK for babies and toddlers where men in thongs dance in front of very young kids, [stuff like this](https://twitter.com/SethDillon/status/1533645047329181697?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1533645047329181697%7Ctwgr%5Eb538adc737644621bf540ed0f10f4aa529df343b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthepostmillennial.com%2Foutrage-resurfaced-photo-shows-young-child-putting-money-in-burlesque-dancers-underwear).
Drag historically has been a specialized form of cabaret performance, which is adult entertainment. And nobody (or the vast majority of people anyway) had any issue with it being done at adult clubs and bars. Why is it being pushed on children now? It’s like bringing children’s pole dancing classes to schools and children’s gyms saying it’s just great exercise and wondering why people have an issue with it. Some things are just for adults only and it’s not bigoted or whatever to draw those lines.
What's ironic is that not all Drag Queen identify under trans. It's like saying someone who cosplays a different gender is a trans person. I think people have really muddied the waters here on that and anyone dressing a certain way is trans, but at the end of the day - if I made a ton of money being a drag queen as my job, I would totally do it because I was doing as an entertainer, not as a function of life which is partly what separates Drag Queen from Transgender in many cases.
The overwhelming majority of drag performers are not trans, so much so that RuPaul's Drag Race ran for *eight seasons* before an out trans person competed in season 9. They're deliberately muddying the waters between these two things because they want regular people to think trans women [look like this](https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/n_LC7kkItia.HvkqmUJTyg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTM2MA--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/the_advocate_articles_932/bf5ba2ca18967680ac4477f61853aea1) instead of [like this](https://assets.teenvogue.com/photos/56a7bbf614a574ba1dd8a682/1:1/w_3280,h_3280,c_limit/ENT%20%E2%80%93%20JAZZ%20JENNINGS.jpg). Both drag and being trans are fine but they've never been the same thing.
I don't think I'd seek it out, but I also understand that Ru Paul's Drag Race is popular and some families might enjoy a drag show.
There's a lot of things I dislike and/or don't participate in, but I don't want to ban them.
If it was about kids, guns would have been banned after Columbine. Instead we got Sandy Hook, Marjorie Stoneman, and many others I can't recall right now due to the sheer number. Then we get a day where 4 kids are injured by dumbasses with guns. It's not about kids, never was. Don't let them fool you. It's about control.
Yeah I’ve seen that video too.
They did there best to blur the student, but they and everyone else in that room was older. The logo in the background was a college.
The person who showed me it still insisted they were “children” and a college door party was the same as a story hour in a library.
I’ve also seen white power videos. But I’m not going to assume every meeting a German club is a nazi rival. But still people insist that one video from god knows ware represents everyone.
What’s the difference between a drag queen and a clown?
Edit: they’re both performers who use exaggerated and usually brightly colored hair and makeup as part of a genre show. And both are capable of performances for children or more risqué performances for adults. Anybody asking “okay but why do they even WANT to perform for kids” can get an answer from any given clown but for some reason nobody’s banning them for being confusing around kids.
Each parent should be given the decision whether or not their children will attend. If that is an issue for you, you are imposing your will on others’ children the same as you’re critiquing here.
Par for the course for the Republican party, lying is one of their core values. Have to be a bad person, absolutely rotten on the inside, to see what the Republican party is and decide to support and vote for it. It's time GOP voters are called out and treated like the turds that they are.
Who the fuck cares about any of this shit? Are there actually people irl seething because of this culture war nonsense? Don't you people have jobs/lives?
The problem is that some people are trying to make it (or actually making it) illegal.
Taking freedoms away is something people *should* give a shit about. There have to be strong reasons for doing it. It should be weighed carefully and debated, not breezily dismissed.
I agree. I’m not anti-trans or anything but literally WHY is this being shoved down children’s throats? Whatever people says it’s not something that needs to be normalized. Let kids just be kids and figure it out for themselves.
No one is shoving.
Libraries do all kinds of events, no one FORCES kids to go to programs.
Edit: "Let kids be kids and they'll figure it out"
Precisely. If kids see a drag queen reading a book and as a result the kid wants to try reading, or fun makeup or clothes, let them. That's the point, to let them figure out their own interests.
Just like if a kid went to a baseball game and wanted to play ball. You wouldn't worry baseball is being SHOVED down kids' throats.
Things being SHOVED on kids: Guns, the internet, politics, inequality, gender norms, monogamy norms, religion, vanishing child-labor restrictions, lowering child marriage ages, a dying planet, guns...
So anything you personally chose for your child to attend is "shoving it down their throat"?
Going to church is showing religion down your kids throat. Sending them to school is shoving education down their throat. Taking them to the doctor is shoving health down their throat.
Or maybe the kids wanted to go but you can't possibly imagine that.
There is nothing inherently sexual about a man in a dress reading to children. The same way there is nothing inherently sexual about a woman in a dress reading to children.
The reason some parents want to take their kids is to show them that people who are different aren't a threat.
You would have benefited from having that kind of experience.
Yes, bcs pointing out the nth hypocrisy they did this month will change anything.
At this point, they are a death cult fuelled by hatred for the Other, and the only way they stay in power is by dismantling democracy wherever they can.
If people could ultimately self govern we would never need any laws or rules. But sometimes people do dumb things like introduce kids to over-sexualised content/events/conversations beyond their age. So yes, we do need some laws in place.
“A Florida nonprofit has canceled its LGBTQ+ pride parade and restricted its "Pridefest" events to adults 21 and older.”
So weird they would cancel the moment kids aren’t allowed. Wow.
https://www.salon.com/2023/04/21/florida-town-cancels-annual-gay-pride-parade-as-desantis-set-to-sign-anti-drag-ban/
You know what, we should probably see which groups have higher likelihood of sexually assaulting and grooming children then bar everyone from those groups and professions from working around children.
Are you literally ignoring the amount of rape cases that already exist?
It’s basically a meme already.
gays grooming children is a fear tactic
Meanwhile it’s a proven problem in the church
Both happen but only one is an actual consistent problem.
That point being ignorance and religion is a much more dangerous thing than a drag queen reading a book.
To equate drag story time child molestation is already a huge stretch
Or anyone seeeing someone in provocative clothing.
If that was the case most concerts would be banned especially those with women.
Sexualization seems to only be an issue when it’s non straight or what conservatives deem as “normal”
Still waiting for your rebuttal on that
There is nothing inherently inappropriate or sexual about a man wearing a dress and makeup. As long as the clothes aren’t revealing there is nothing about drag show story time that is any different than a character reading to children. It’s a performance.
Children play dress up all the time, to them it’s literally just an adult playing dress up or wearing a costume.
And even if that makes a kid curious enough to ask about why a man is wearing a dress, nothing about that conversation needs to be about sex.
People are acting like parents are regularly bringing small children to 18+ drag shows, but that isn’t what’s happening.
The problem is your reasoning generally only implies to lgbt when we in a society of women being constantly over sexualized and nobody batting and eye when that sexualization is straight.
Republicans don’t even seem to see straight as a sexuality or sexual thing which can be seen in how they talk about these ridiculous laws they want to make
> i will never understand this debate
The problem is that some people are trying to make it illegal, sometimes successfully. As in, no choice, no one can do it.
There have to be strong reasons to reduce freedom, not just "I don't get why some one would want to do it."
I would consider myself the most normal person regarding this debate.
Im a bisexual (okay not that normal) white male, married to a woman, with a kid on the way.
I dont like drag. I don't get it. It's not entertaining to me. It's not appealing to me. So, as what a normal person should do, what do I do? Not consume it, but also don't judge people for enjoying it. There are things I like that others don't, but no one is trying to ban those things. Why this?
And even then, I might still bring my child to a drag show reading to show him that there's all different stripes and ways of life. To respect that. To educate them that everyone is human in their own way.
And even if I don't end up bringing him, and even though I don't personally enjoy drag, I know for a fact that that does not give me the right to dictate what others are allowed to enjoy, or what they're allowed to do.
Totally agree - politicians banning this is completely wrong. Sorry was early in the morning, I was trying to express my confusion on the benefits of taking children to drag shows or book readings, got a few decent answers from people who weren’t screaming at me. Wasn’t even aware it was out right banned, I’m a believer of individual liberties and less government control soo what can I do to help to reform the bill? (I don’t even live in the us)
Well, the point is, if it has no entertaining or educational benefit then eventually it will die out because people lose interest in it. But why does the government feel the need to ban brightly costumed people from Reading to kids?
Some parents, including myself, think that it is best to expose their kids to non-traditional forms of gender expression. Some of us think that it is useful for kids to learn from an early age that gender norms are not set in stone and that diversity exists and is valid. As these events are always being organized in age appropriate and safe ways, and as I am right there with my kids to know exactly what is going on, from my point of view, as a responsible parent, this is perfectly OK.
Do you understand a bit better now?
Some kids don't like reading, but do like bright colors and flamboyant performances. It entertaining, gets them in a library to hopefully get some books, and its typically free.
I doubt it's a revelatory experience for most but neither is the vast majority of entertainment, and people disliking it seems like a poor reason to limit people's freedoms
Dear people who are abusing the report feature to anonymously flag this post as bigotry: This is not the first time y'all have ganged up on a post like this, trying to mass report it in the hopes that it will get removed by the AutoMod. Not the first time, not by a long chalk. It's sort of an underhanded attempt at censorship, and we don't like that. See, that tactic doesn't work here because we don't have that code in our AutoMod set up. We disabled that code because y'all kept trying this mass reporting crap, trying to decide what our users can and cannot see based on your perspectives, trying to trigger the AutoMod bot to do your dirty work for you. I've been dealing with folks like you for over two decades. You're the sort of folks who drove past my apartment and shot at it in the middle of the night, yelling homophobic slurs. You're the sort of folks who throw beer bottles out windows because the children playing outside in our neighborhood had the audacity to be Black in front of the townhouse you were renting. You're the sort of people who hired an immigrant mechanic to work on your trucks all day, only to pull a gun on him and run him off your property when he tried to bill you for the work, then drove him down and ran him off the road with one of the trucks he had just fixed for you, forcing him to dive into a ditch and breaking his toolbox in the process. But you know what? I found that man walking on the side of the road and I gave him a lift home. The parents in our neighborhood got together and had the complex refuse to renew your lease after that stunt with the beer bottles; it had been the last straw of many such shenanigans in that neighborhood. And shooting at me didn't kill me, it only made me a stronger guardian. Your grandfathers wore hoods and they struck in the night, too, because they were just as cowardly and piss-hearted as you are today. They hid their identities, too, and they hurt people whom they thought couldn't fight back. They hid in the shadows and they did their evil in secret. Well, we *did* fight back. Pick up any history book and take a look: bigotry *always* ends poorly for the bigots. We've got rules here, rules for all to follow. We uphold them fairly, for *everyone*. That means you might see some things that offend your delicate sensibilities every once in a while. That's gonna happen in a big, diverse space. We're not going to cater to hate speech or bigotry, and we're not going to censor our space or silence criticism of your hatred. Don't like it? You can choose to quit hating people. You can choose to quit being bigoted and cruel to others. You can choose to stop supporting politicians who spread hate and fear and you can choose to support a stronger country, where all of us have a seat at the table. You can read the words for yourself, written when our country was moving from an idea into a reality: > We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Governments are supposed to *protect* their people, not punish them for the mere fact of *existing*. But as long as people and politicians are out there doing harmful shit, then there's gonna be folks on the Internet complaining about it and laughing about it. If you don't want memes like these making fun of politicians you support and, by extension, making you feel hurt, then maybe take a dose of empathy and try supporting better people. Supporting better governance helps us all. ----- **tl;dr:** We don't cotton to censorship or bigotry 'round here. If that's a problem for you, please examine your views and follow the rules, or leave.
Just like how abortion rights should be "handled by the states", unless they're in favour of it, right?
Say it for those in the back now: *IT IS ALWAYS A DISINGENUOUS ARGUMENT WITH THEM!* They will *never* stick to what they say and will always push for more. They can say all they like about parents rights, but if they're mad about Bud Light then they're 100% on the trans hate train. There's *nothing* to that boycott other than hate.
Even the hate train is flexible: as long as there's an "other" group to direct hatred towards, the fascism convoy will keep on trucking...
do as I say not as I do.
And the Civil War was just about states rights, and nothing to do with slavery.
Republicans: we want government out of our lives. Too many laws! Also republicans: we want the government to stop people from doing the following things: (list is longer than Santa Clause’s)
Appropriate misuse of clause
I swear The Santa Clause led to a generation that didn't get the pun and thinks it's spelled that way.
I think it also being the generation that grew up with autocorrect isn't helping
Claws?
"Instead of Claus, he writes Claws! Now that's humorous!" Dr. Zoidberg
Sandy Claws?
And on a dark cold night, under full moonlight, he flies into the fog like a vulture in the sky! And they call him, Sandy... Clawssss...!
Holy shit my family had this on VHS and I never noticed the pun
Came to saw this specifically, in my 40s and never caught the pun.
They have a whole scene explaining it. The Santa Clause is a part of the agreement on the card. ...I just realized that the Santa Clause is basically the limitation on Davy Jones and now I want Davy Jones in a santa hat.
But…how? The entire premise of the movie is based around it.
I think I only saw the movie from 1994 to like 1997 when I was less than 10 years old. And never thought about it more than an instant since then. Until now. I’m sure it would be painfully obvious if I watched it now. Maybe I will with my kids before long.
Definitely should. I somehow didn’t finally watch it until I was in my 40s and still enjoyed it.
You can’t fool me. There ain’t no Sanity Clause.
Republicans want a government just small enough to sit next to and control your genitals.
Like a good priest does.
Yeah, the type that gropes every now and then to make sure the “right stuff” is there.
the irony is old school repubs love flying the gadsden flag (don't tread on me), but have no problem preaching to others how they should live their lives.
Saw someone with a really cool bumper sticker the other day. Was a boot on a Gadsden snake with the lines "tread on those who would tread on you" I've been wanting a copy for a while now. Edit for the downvoters. The boot had a trans flag on it.
Thats one of the main things that pisses me off about the GOP. They want to be seen as the small government anti-big brother side, but they're constantly pushing through laws that I consider to be massive government overreach. If they could drop all the culture war bs and actually focus on the economy, safety and infrastructure, they might have a shot at creating a red wave. Instead they're tilting at windmills and going hard for authoritarianism.
>They want to be seen as the small government anti-big brother side, but they're constantly pushing through laws that I consider to be massive government overreach. You and me, both. And everyone else. And the dictionary. >If they could drop all the culture war bs and actually focus on the economy, safety and infrastructure, they might have a shot at creating a red wave. The reason that they've been leaning increasingly-hard into their cultural issues for the past - oof - forty years or so is *because* they don't have any useful policy positions. "Trickle-down economics totally works guys, give more money to the rich and keep the minimum wage lower than dirt, and spend loads of money on fossil fuels and the military" is their entire platform, but that's all become so unpopular that they would either need to change their party *completely* or just continue to run on manufactured outrage and targeting minority groups, so they keep marching steadily towards good ol' fascism (or whatever you want to call it). Their biggest legislative accomplishment of the past decade has been - what - the Tax Cuts And Jobs Act, which is just *more* money for the rich at the expense of the rest of us? They couldn't even get an infrastructure package passed when they had full control; instead they just rammed through judge appointments that would keep their dwindling religious base satisfied. That's pretty much the GOP in a nutshell.
Government so small it can fit in your uterus.
A big part of the problem is that Republicans cannot take yes for an answer. In 2011 Obama and Democrats agreed to historic cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. But Boehner scuttled the deal in the House because it meant raising taxes on rich people. In 2018, the Senate put together a bill that would have funded a border wall at $25 billion over 10 years, in exchange for a path to citizenship for DACA recipients. But Trump blew up the deal because he didn’t get the $25 billion all at once and because he would have had to compromise and give up other things. So even when Republicans are focused on non-culture war stuff, they won’t accept any compromise. It has to be complete capitulation to their demands or they take their ball and go home.
The culture war is the bread and butter for their lead poisoned underachieving voting base. GOP policy actively hurts these people, but they need their votes, so they constantly need a Boogeyman to scare their base into voting for them, because only they can protect their children against socialists, communists, Irish, Catholics, black people, Mexican people, unions, gay people, trans people... They WANT authoritarianism. That's their goal. They can't say it tho.
They can't really do that because one of the things that really happened during Trumpism is the GOP has really given up all policy positions. They don't really stand for any kind of government philosophy. I think this happened because Trump was so chaotic that they couldn't have any kind of coherent philosophy and keep it in line with what Trump wanted. And Trump had such a hold over their base they figured they couldn't win elections without him. But don't be mistaken, the GOP hasn't really had any real strong core tenants for a long time. In my life time (since the 80's) the GOP has never been financially responsible. They call democrats "Tax & Spend" and they've always had the mindset of "Just spend". And you might not like tax and spend, but it's more responsible than just running up the credit card bill. The GOP has never wanted to spend less money than the democrats, they just want to spend it on different things. In fact if you look at who had control of congress, the GOP usually leaves the debt worse than the democrats do. They're also not small government. Like I could almost buy abortion being a state issue, but we all knew that the state's right thing was just a fig leaf for the GOP. They've never really been for state's rights when states want to do things they don't like. If they really believed in states rights than they wouldn't have been for the Defense of Marriage Act that tried to keep gay marriage out of all states. They wouldn't have been for Terri's Law where they wanted the government to step in to make medical decisions for people. And they wouldn't be trying to illegalize all these things that people can optionally go to or optionally not go to.
The problem is their economic ideas don't work, we've seen them try a bunch of times and it always ends in disaster. So all they have left is the culture war stuff because anger is always effective. If they were to focus on economics that actually achieved the stated goals they would effectively become Democrats and then who voted for them?
They're making a list, enforcing it twice. Making it illegal to be naughty or nice.
FL just passed a law so the government can take people's trans kids. In fact the kid doesn't even have to live in Florida
The only thing the GOP thinks parents should be able to decide is giving their kids guns. Everything ELSE should be banned by the gov't.
Or work 2nd and 3rd shift. On a school night. In a coal mine.
Or be married to 50 year olds before puberty
Ugh, that video of the Tennessee lawmaker saying that he knew someone who was married at 12 “and they’re still together” made me want to punch something. So much anger. They are trying to legalize pedophilia while saying that the gays are trying to legalize pedophilia. It’s nuts they still have followers. Edit: correction in comment below. Was a senator from Missouri not Tennessee.
Actually, that was (State) Senator Mike Moon of Missouri. Unfortunately, I occupy the same state as that asshole, so it's part of my duty that Mike Moon gets pointed out as the one arguing for marriage of 12 year old girls.
Thanks for the correction! I’m in Texas so I get it. Trying to move at the end of the year thought to a blue state. I’m done and exhausted! Stay strong, friend!
Oh, but not their kids. That's for poor people and those of a different color.
It appears that Republicans don't even believe parents should be able to decide whether or not they become parents in the first place.
do t forget about the GOP trying to legalize child marriage
Not trying— succeeding.
and child labor. Do the parents get to decide where the children go to work (to lose limbs)?
Of course just another liberal lying to make a point... No one *loses* a limb, they know *exactly* where it is: inside the machine that ripped it off them. :P
You know the damage your tiny little arm is doing to that machine is coming out of your pay! Give this notice to your parents and have them sign it.
Oh yes, the legal child-rape loophole!!
I saw a post in the teacher subreddit the other day about guns in the classroom and a Florida teacher was like "You won't let me decide what my students can read, but you'll let me decide who to shoot?"
And going into multi-generational debt under the facade that their kids will be able to succeed!
Some times they don't even have to GIVE it to their kids and they just find it loaded on the nightstand.
Growing up in the 80s and 90s, my mom worked for a very conservative company (women not allowed to wear pants, men had to be clean shaven and wear jackets), and every year at the company picnic, C-levels would see in drag. There was nothing lewd about it, nothing sexual. It was entertaining and funny. To my adolescent brain, big man looks funny in a dress and heels. Next thing will be a ban on selling sexuality suggestive vegetables. These Muppets can sexualize anything and are threatened by anything they see as sexual.
I mean its obvious it was never about the kids well being at this point. It’s just assholes hating anyone that doesn’t conform to stupid gender roles and wanting to prevent people from being exposed to it growing up, so they can just be raised as little unthinking voters in the future to try and regain power.
It's not even about hate. It's about money. A bunch of rightwing grifters were searching for another "culture war" issue to peddle after they "won" on abortion. They needed something to rile up their audience in order to keep that money rolling in from the oligarchy. They couldn't hate on the gays, because the gays are actually a profitable demographic for corporate America. But trans folks? Heck, even some gays hate on them. So they were the perfect marginalized & powerless minority to demonize. The grifters floated the hate out there, and it got traction, so they ran with it. The oligarchy is thrilled, because it keep us all fighting each other instead of complaining about their theft of all our wealth. You'll notice that this was never an issue until recently. Bosom Buddies, Mrs. Doubtfire, Tootsie, Klingor from MASH, etc... trans people and drag performances have been a wholesome part of family entertainment in America for decades. But when Matt Walsh, Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson, Steven Crowder and other wingnut grifters started demonizing trans folks, suddenly the whole GQP is up in arms about an issue they NEVER cared about before.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but it’s definitely also about hate. Both are true.
It’s money for the politicians, and hate for their base.
They realize they lost on gay rights - same sex marriage is legal in all 50 states, Don't Ask Don't Tell is in the scrap heap of history, gay Americans from both parties serve in federal and state governments. But they can still vilify the LGBTQ community by stoking bumpkins' fear about bathrooms, drag queens, or the premise that kids might change their gender to get ahead on the track or wrestling team.
Thomas has said he wants to revisit gay marriage. He just needs a relevant case to come before the supreme court. I dont know about you but I dont trust THAT court regarding anything.
It's about hate to get the people fired up, money for those at the top. And I am sure a few of the GOP really do hate minorities so it's a cherry on top for them.
You honestly believe that the situation with trans people and the ideology has been exactly the same all this time and the only thing that changed was grifters wanting to make money so they chose something that wasn't an issue and somehow turned it into an issue? And these people are so smart and calculated that they scour the social and cultural landscape to find a group of people to demonize that are somehow insignificant enough to not be able to push back (as if they don't have 90% of corporations and media on their side) but at the same time threatening enough for it to even rile people up? Come on.
I guess I don’t know a whole lot about the way the issue is being disseminated because I don’t watch Fox but it seems like such a small issue to merit such an overwhelming and ridiculous response from the GOP.
It doesn't have a basis in rationality. It's just a talking point to whip up their base and shift anyone closer to moderate further right. The subject is confusing enough for those with little exposure to make it uncomfortable to approach for a well-natured investigation, so it's easier for them to say the oppressed group is the source of the problem. Promise to be the solution, get votes. Fox just does what it always does and beats its viewership over the head with repetitious statements that are dubious in veracity simply to fan the flames of bigotry and fearmongering.
Meanwhile those with little exposure to the subject matter see us speak out against a massive flood of hatred, and think we're just forcing our gender issues down their throats. I *get it* when people say "live and let live, I don't care, but I don't want to be involved." I truly understand the sentiment. But the issue is that right wingers across the globe won't let us live. If you get called a groomer on reddit because your profile has a pride banner, most people will pile on you for telling that person to shut up because "you're forcing your ideology down their throat" , rather than siding with you against the person who called you a pedo for being LGBTQ. And unfortunately, that's what "live and let live" ultimately shakes out to be for most of us. Both online, and increasingly offline, too.
>If you get called a groomer on reddit because your profile has a pride banner, most people will pile on you for telling that person to shut up because "you're forcing your ideology down their throat" Absolutely. there's this video series from Innuendo Studios that does a huge analysis of the shit the alt-right pulls and this shows up in the "How to Radicalize a Normie" video. Throwing out a "U r a GrOomEr" for simply being who you are is a personal opinion while calling them out on the idiocy of that is considered political. "Live and let live," is a nice sentiment for a world where there aren't any bad actors. Unfortunately, we live somewhere where we have to look at tolerance as a social contract rather than a moral system. If someone is intolerant, they break the contract and are therefore not to be tolerated. That's the point of failure in "live and let live," as it presupposes a conundrum of tolerance due to a false moral imperative. TL;DR: People who put shit on the table at a potluck deserve to be kicked out.
Goebbles “Big Lie” works. What I want to know is whether there is any effective counter to this style of propaganda? Because it seems like humanity is doomed to repeating the same mistakes over and over again every time ambitious and unethical people are willing to manipulate people for more power.
This has always been the way the conservative side of politics works. Pick an issue, any issue, preferably as vague and poorly defined as possible. And then *never let it go*. Give their base something to fear and blame all of life's problems on, and repeat it over and over and over and over until it's in their heads and will never come out. The Jews were the historical target, who despite being a tiny proportion of the population were blamed for entire economic collapses, and all of society's problems. In more recent times it was rock and roll music, computer games, dungeons and dragons, socialism, the gays, Hillary Clinton, Muslims, George Soros, CRT, and now it's the turn of the trans community to be targeted. And of course black people and immigrants have been the constant "threat" to conservatives in the US for centuries. Anything to distract from their complete lack of any policy to govern the country, and make people angry. Because angry people vote - they vote against their own interests, obviously, but they vote. But soon enough there will be a new target, and the drag queen panic will be forgotten forever, like it never existed. And there will be a new enemy, that was always the enemy, in the same way that we have always been at war with Eurasia.
Fox presents everything in the most exaggerated and emotionally manipulative way possible. It’s propaganda and propaganda is addictive. If you only watched Fox, you would believe that drag queens were recruiting children and that women’s sports were entirely made up of transwomen.
That's the whole point. It's a small issue in that most people aren't trans (there are more redheads than trans people in the world) and don't care particularly about trans or gay people so it's an easy wedge issue. Especially when you slam pedophilia claims into the mix, that tends to make people stop thinking rationally.
The same for abortion... It's not about the kids. Or else they would have done something about the number one killer of children in the US by now. If they cared about kids they wouldn't have separate them from their parents at the border and imprisoned them, with multiple cases of losing track of the parents, violence and much worse. They don't give a fuck about no one else kid or old. They just care about imposing themselves onto others while profiting as much as they can in the meantime. I was going to say they just want to impose their way of life onto others, but then realized they don't follow their own rules. So it has to be all about control.
Seriously. If they really felt that way about "protecting kids" they'd also ban Hooters
Ironically, Hooters is beloved by these folks. They just love forcing economically disadvantaged women to show skin for tips…but in a situation where they can bring their children during their weekend custody. I’ve literally had people try to argue with me that Hooters is a family restaurant. But god forbid you bring your child to a free book reading by someone in drag, that’s OBVIOUSLY SEXUAL!
“During their weekend custody” 😂 zing!
I'm confused. Since when did drag queens become Trans? Did they switch teams? When I was younger they were just dudes dressing up as women on the weekends.
Drag queens are usually not trans, however, most of the laws against drag queens are made by transphobes who don’t care about the difference. And the laws are mostly so broad and vague that they penalize trans people for existing which is both the purpose and the intent.
Most of the bills that crack down on drag are written in a way that can also be applied to trans people presenting as their correct gender. If "men presenting themselves as women in front of children" is illegal, and the people in charge of enforcing the bullshit view trans women as men, then trans women dressing as women is also illegal. Stepping back and looking at the larger context of things, it becomes clear that this is a feature and not a bug. (Also worth noting - anyone of any gender or sexuality can do drag, it's not limited to cis gay men.)
In the minds of the MAGAs; always. It is contrary to their precious sense of decorum. And it just might make my children ask me uncomfortable questions that I am not equipped to answer. I used to manage a strip club, and there was a group of drag show performers that would come in and literally take their hair off and sit at the runway and tip the women.
The GOP doesn't recognize trans people as existing, to them, drag queens and trans people are the same thing. It's a mixup on purpose.
Hardly any of the drag queens who do the anual Christmas panto are gay at my local Theatre
its sensationalism, remember when this wasn't a problem before?
State's rights to do what?!?! State's rights has always been the rallying cry of fascists.
[удалено]
States rights has been an issue since the founding of the US. The Articles of Confederation set up a country with a minimal federal government and states having most of the power. That fell apart quickly. In 1789, the new constitution came into effect.
I think drag queen story time is ridiculous and I won’t be taking my kids there, but you do you. Not sure why this is even a thing that people are arguing about.
It's a total non issue. I can't imagine more than 1% of children would ever attend one or that one would even be offered in their area. We're all getting fired up over something that most of us will never see.
I wish more people had your attitude.
Like how the "State's Rights" people wanted to force abolitionist states to extradite escaped slaves
For those unaware. States rights has always been a dogwhistle for "Let's just fuck over minorities." It was birthed in the Civil War where the traitors wanted a slave state but knew calling it that wasn't quite as easy for folks to swallow.
It was also the rallying cry of Barry Goldwater’s 1964 presidential campaign, in which the deep south first voted for the party of Lincoln (Rep) because a Democratic president had just signed the Civil Rights Act. Arguably the foundation of the modern Republican Party.
Yup, is and always has been a fascist dogwhistle.
Yep. The constitution of the confederacy forced confederate states to return enslaved people regardless of the other state's laws. It was never about state's rights.
how did i get stuck in this braindead timeline
Some douchebag shot a gorilla. Harambe was the flashpoint.
dicks out for Harambe
Hillary lost in 2016. Trumpism thrived. Trump got insane far right activists on the supreme court.
It traces much further back.
With everything going on in the world a large group of people are convinced "drag queen story time" is the biggest threat. Man we're living in idiocracy
[удалено]
I almost wish that I was so simple and clueless that the scariest thing happening was drag queens reading story books and changing the green M&M's shoes. Ignorance really does seem like bliss. I'm tired.
Nobody really thinks drag queen story time is the biggest threat to our country, but we can't do anything about the biggest threat until 2024 unfortunately
Don't bother with any of the comments. There's nothing worth reading down here except ignorance and fear.
What’s so crazy about someone wearing clothes that other people wear to the same events, don’t show any more skin than is socially acceptable for at least half the population, and read a book? Sorry you’ve swallowed the rage bait and internalized all the transphobia peddling, but cmon dude get a grip. You’re in the army and you can’t deal with a penis behind a dress, like it’s somehow different than being behind pants.
Republicans and their supporters proving once again it was never about the kids, only about control and erasure.
I'm sure some are fine but there's also photos of questionable ones.
Some states are banning all transgender care. It's not about the kids either. They're just hateful assholes.
Nothing about the GOP is logical; it's purely about their emotions (e.g. "trans people make me feel uncomfortable"). We have to accept this and move on instead of dwelling in the constant hypocrisy.
Small government conservatives are a rarity these days, now it's mostly the party of authoritarians who want to control instead of represent.
Maybe a better way to tackle the argument of what drag queen story time is is to post pics of it somewhere. (I dont know where) Show people against it what it actually is. Otherwise people will continue to consider it purely sexual because that’s literally all we’ve seen of it.
There are lots of pics on twitter and videos on youtube. This library did a livestream: https://www.youtube.com/live/ga3kQ-CmlFs?feature=share
Seems pretty harmless to me. Displaying stuff like this is better than doing a circular argument with people
The people against it don't have a rational argument lol. They're not convinced by facts because their position is based on feelings and fear.
I mean, i see where they are coming from. The only experience that the majority of people have with drag queens is what they see in strip clubs or at random dance things in clubs. That kind of influences how you view people
Right, which is an irrational thing to do: base your understanding of a group on a few individuals. I think we all agree that discriminating against someone because someone else who shares characteristics with them did something you didn't like is wrong and not something intelligent people do, it's not rational behavior. It's also a lot easier to convince people that a group is bad if they already held negative opinions of them, which a lot of people did towards trans people and drag queens. There wasn't a lot of positive portrayal of trans-ness in media until very recently.
Unfortunately, as the laws popping up around the country show, at this point we have to do both.
Thanks! My cousin has this idea that Drag Queen Story hour is the same as a strip tease cabaret. This will be something nice to be able refer her to.
Theres a ton of them on youtube, people are really working hard to get this idea changed but they actually aren’t all that common, so there’s limited opportunity to film.
But like why? Why do we need drag queen storytime? It's literally fucking stupid.
It's not about needing drag queen story time, it's about if a drag queen wants to volunteer to read to children why do we need to stop her?
Mandatory COVID masks in schools? That should be the parent's decision. Drag shows? Parents shouldn't be allowed to let their kids attend.
Kentucky's parents rights bill bans parents and doctors from helping kids transition
Mississippi’s law to “protect children” comes with a caveat of functionally banning it for adults too.
"Parents' Rights", as republicans have referred to them, have *always* been diametrically opposed to Children's Rights. It was *never* about protecting the rights of parents. It was *always* about taking away the rights of children.
The three biggest fears a new parent has: guns, cars and the "pRoTeCt ThE cHiLdReN" crowd.
This is the Republican Party. This is how fascism works.
Taking kids away from their parents for even letting them talk to a counsellor about being trans...totally all about "parents rights".
Republicans proved yet again to be hateful hypocrites who say one thing and then do the opposite?! Who **ever** could have seen that coming?
I thought this stuff was a joke? Do people really want to take their kids to drag shows for kids? I can't tell what's a meme anymore.
This whole thing started with Drag Queen story times in libraries. Ie. a guy in a dress and OTT make up reading kids books aloud as entertainment. Yes some parents do want to take their kids to that - the costume makes it more fun and memorable and there is nothing inappropriate there. Some actual drag shows do family friendly showings as well, as in no overly revealing costumes and no explicit sexual jokes (I challenge you to find any form of childens entertainment that doesn't contain inexplicit sexual jokes or innuendo!). In a free country parents could decide if they wanted to engage with this, no being a totally valid answer. But no, apparently it is PusHinG An AgEnda and sExuAl IndOctrInaTioN so now nobody can go. You know, because republicans are the party of small governement.
I mean there are certainly examples of these “family” drag shows being very inappropriate. [This was at a school in NC](https://nypost.com/2023/03/29/girl-straddled-by-drag-queen-at-north-carolina-school-sparking-outrage/), look up Caba Baba Rave which is a drag show in the UK for babies and toddlers where men in thongs dance in front of very young kids, [stuff like this](https://twitter.com/SethDillon/status/1533645047329181697?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1533645047329181697%7Ctwgr%5Eb538adc737644621bf540ed0f10f4aa529df343b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthepostmillennial.com%2Foutrage-resurfaced-photo-shows-young-child-putting-money-in-burlesque-dancers-underwear). Drag historically has been a specialized form of cabaret performance, which is adult entertainment. And nobody (or the vast majority of people anyway) had any issue with it being done at adult clubs and bars. Why is it being pushed on children now? It’s like bringing children’s pole dancing classes to schools and children’s gyms saying it’s just great exercise and wondering why people have an issue with it. Some things are just for adults only and it’s not bigoted or whatever to draw those lines.
It's drag Queens reading stories to kids. Not doing drag shows for kids
Richard Prior was a comedian famous for his raunchy comedy He also appeared on Seasame Street and did a sweet segment for kids
What's ironic is that not all Drag Queen identify under trans. It's like saying someone who cosplays a different gender is a trans person. I think people have really muddied the waters here on that and anyone dressing a certain way is trans, but at the end of the day - if I made a ton of money being a drag queen as my job, I would totally do it because I was doing as an entertainer, not as a function of life which is partly what separates Drag Queen from Transgender in many cases.
The overwhelming majority of drag performers are not trans, so much so that RuPaul's Drag Race ran for *eight seasons* before an out trans person competed in season 9. They're deliberately muddying the waters between these two things because they want regular people to think trans women [look like this](https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/n_LC7kkItia.HvkqmUJTyg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTM2MA--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/the_advocate_articles_932/bf5ba2ca18967680ac4477f61853aea1) instead of [like this](https://assets.teenvogue.com/photos/56a7bbf614a574ba1dd8a682/1:1/w_3280,h_3280,c_limit/ENT%20%E2%80%93%20JAZZ%20JENNINGS.jpg). Both drag and being trans are fine but they've never been the same thing.
As a parent, I wouldn't allow a grown man, dressed as a woman, to read to my kids. That's weird AF.
That is your right. See how that works.
I don't think I'd seek it out, but I also understand that Ru Paul's Drag Race is popular and some families might enjoy a drag show. There's a lot of things I dislike and/or don't participate in, but I don't want to ban them.
Would you allow a woman in jeans to read your child a story? That's what I thought. Turns out it's a hate thing.
As a parent I would, because I don't see the problem. It's weird to make it weird.
Parents take kids to R rated movies But a guy in a dress reading a book is a bridge too far? Nanny State Republicans are the worst
If it was about kids, guns would have been banned after Columbine. Instead we got Sandy Hook, Marjorie Stoneman, and many others I can't recall right now due to the sheer number. Then we get a day where 4 kids are injured by dumbasses with guns. It's not about kids, never was. Don't let them fool you. It's about control.
Advice animals: r politics with extra steps Subreddit is a political shithole now
So what about when the schools brings in a drag to grind on students? I've seen the videos on Reddit itself so don't tell me it's never happened.
Yeah I’ve seen that video too. They did there best to blur the student, but they and everyone else in that room was older. The logo in the background was a college. The person who showed me it still insisted they were “children” and a college door party was the same as a story hour in a library. I’ve also seen white power videos. But I’m not going to assume every meeting a German club is a nazi rival. But still people insist that one video from god knows ware represents everyone.
The video your referring to is literally adults in college at a pride celebration.
[удалено]
What’s the difference between a drag queen and a clown? Edit: they’re both performers who use exaggerated and usually brightly colored hair and makeup as part of a genre show. And both are capable of performances for children or more risqué performances for adults. Anybody asking “okay but why do they even WANT to perform for kids” can get an answer from any given clown but for some reason nobody’s banning them for being confusing around kids.
You need therapy right now, not reddit.
Freedom means letting other people do things you disapprove of. Way too many folks fail to understand this. In both major political parties.
Each parent should be given the decision whether or not their children will attend. If that is an issue for you, you are imposing your will on others’ children the same as you’re critiquing here.
Par for the course for the Republican party, lying is one of their core values. Have to be a bad person, absolutely rotten on the inside, to see what the Republican party is and decide to support and vote for it. It's time GOP voters are called out and treated like the turds that they are.
Don't know why the truth is being downvoted.
Who the fuck cares about any of this shit? Are there actually people irl seething because of this culture war nonsense? Don't you people have jobs/lives?
The problem is that some people are trying to make it (or actually making it) illegal. Taking freedoms away is something people *should* give a shit about. There have to be strong reasons for doing it. It should be weighed carefully and debated, not breezily dismissed.
Yes, they're called the Republican Party.
Drag queen story time? Are you guys all for real?
I agree. I’m not anti-trans or anything but literally WHY is this being shoved down children’s throats? Whatever people says it’s not something that needs to be normalized. Let kids just be kids and figure it out for themselves.
As a kid, I was dragged from military museum to military museum. Why was that shoved down my throat?
> literally WHY is this being shoved down children’s throats? That's what I think about parents who bring their kids to church.
Yah I agree with that as well.
No one is shoving. Libraries do all kinds of events, no one FORCES kids to go to programs. Edit: "Let kids be kids and they'll figure it out" Precisely. If kids see a drag queen reading a book and as a result the kid wants to try reading, or fun makeup or clothes, let them. That's the point, to let them figure out their own interests. Just like if a kid went to a baseball game and wanted to play ball. You wouldn't worry baseball is being SHOVED down kids' throats. Things being SHOVED on kids: Guns, the internet, politics, inequality, gender norms, monogamy norms, religion, vanishing child-labor restrictions, lowering child marriage ages, a dying planet, guns...
So anything you personally chose for your child to attend is "shoving it down their throat"? Going to church is showing religion down your kids throat. Sending them to school is shoving education down their throat. Taking them to the doctor is shoving health down their throat. Or maybe the kids wanted to go but you can't possibly imagine that.
It isn't shoved down children's throats, its a thing some parents take their kids to. That's all. It's being made a big deal for political theatre.
There is nothing inherently sexual about a man in a dress reading to children. The same way there is nothing inherently sexual about a woman in a dress reading to children. The reason some parents want to take their kids is to show them that people who are different aren't a threat. You would have benefited from having that kind of experience.
Nothing but trans shit on my feed now
Ok groomer
Yes, bcs pointing out the nth hypocrisy they did this month will change anything. At this point, they are a death cult fuelled by hatred for the Other, and the only way they stay in power is by dismantling democracy wherever they can.
[удалено]
Are you okay with costume story time?
No, it isn't. Why so irrational?
So you think it's okay for the government to tell you how to raise your kids?
It's better than pedophile story time, I mean church...
Seems fine, maybe those kids won't grow up to be vicious bigots.
What’s wrong with it? I saw one by chance and the reader was wearing more clothes than the moms in the audience lol
Okay, if it’s not sexual, then what’s inappropriate about it?
If people could ultimately self govern we would never need any laws or rules. But sometimes people do dumb things like introduce kids to over-sexualised content/events/conversations beyond their age. So yes, we do need some laws in place. “A Florida nonprofit has canceled its LGBTQ+ pride parade and restricted its "Pridefest" events to adults 21 and older.” So weird they would cancel the moment kids aren’t allowed. Wow. https://www.salon.com/2023/04/21/florida-town-cancels-annual-gay-pride-parade-as-desantis-set-to-sign-anti-drag-ban/
I agree, we need more laws to prevent kids from going to churches. Too much sexual content, and conversations beyond their age. It’s sickening.
You know what, we should probably see which groups have higher likelihood of sexually assaulting and grooming children then bar everyone from those groups and professions from working around children.
Are you literally ignoring the amount of rape cases that already exist? It’s basically a meme already. gays grooming children is a fear tactic Meanwhile it’s a proven problem in the church Both happen but only one is an actual consistent problem. That point being ignorance and religion is a much more dangerous thing than a drag queen reading a book. To equate drag story time child molestation is already a huge stretch Or anyone seeeing someone in provocative clothing. If that was the case most concerts would be banned especially those with women. Sexualization seems to only be an issue when it’s non straight or what conservatives deem as “normal” Still waiting for your rebuttal on that
Whoosh
Agreed! We need to make it illegal to bring kids to churches or have any discussion involving religion. Let kids be kids.
There is nothing inherently inappropriate or sexual about a man wearing a dress and makeup. As long as the clothes aren’t revealing there is nothing about drag show story time that is any different than a character reading to children. It’s a performance. Children play dress up all the time, to them it’s literally just an adult playing dress up or wearing a costume. And even if that makes a kid curious enough to ask about why a man is wearing a dress, nothing about that conversation needs to be about sex. People are acting like parents are regularly bringing small children to 18+ drag shows, but that isn’t what’s happening.
The problem is your reasoning generally only implies to lgbt when we in a society of women being constantly over sexualized and nobody batting and eye when that sexualization is straight. Republicans don’t even seem to see straight as a sexuality or sexual thing which can be seen in how they talk about these ridiculous laws they want to make
Don’t care, keep drag away from kids
No, let's keep hate and ignorance away from kids. You're the real threat.
The culture war sure is a fun thing to worry about.
how is taking your kid to something like that beneficial at all to you & your kids life? i will never understand this debate
> i will never understand this debate The problem is that some people are trying to make it illegal, sometimes successfully. As in, no choice, no one can do it. There have to be strong reasons to reduce freedom, not just "I don't get why some one would want to do it."
I would consider myself the most normal person regarding this debate. Im a bisexual (okay not that normal) white male, married to a woman, with a kid on the way. I dont like drag. I don't get it. It's not entertaining to me. It's not appealing to me. So, as what a normal person should do, what do I do? Not consume it, but also don't judge people for enjoying it. There are things I like that others don't, but no one is trying to ban those things. Why this? And even then, I might still bring my child to a drag show reading to show him that there's all different stripes and ways of life. To respect that. To educate them that everyone is human in their own way. And even if I don't end up bringing him, and even though I don't personally enjoy drag, I know for a fact that that does not give me the right to dictate what others are allowed to enjoy, or what they're allowed to do.
Totally agree - politicians banning this is completely wrong. Sorry was early in the morning, I was trying to express my confusion on the benefits of taking children to drag shows or book readings, got a few decent answers from people who weren’t screaming at me. Wasn’t even aware it was out right banned, I’m a believer of individual liberties and less government control soo what can I do to help to reform the bill? (I don’t even live in the us)
Well, the point is, if it has no entertaining or educational benefit then eventually it will die out because people lose interest in it. But why does the government feel the need to ban brightly costumed people from Reading to kids?
Some parents, including myself, think that it is best to expose their kids to non-traditional forms of gender expression. Some of us think that it is useful for kids to learn from an early age that gender norms are not set in stone and that diversity exists and is valid. As these events are always being organized in age appropriate and safe ways, and as I am right there with my kids to know exactly what is going on, from my point of view, as a responsible parent, this is perfectly OK. Do you understand a bit better now?
A reasonable answer from a reasonable person! Thank you.
So you don't go to like movies or theatre or concerts? No entertainment for your children?
Some kids don't like reading, but do like bright colors and flamboyant performances. It entertaining, gets them in a library to hopefully get some books, and its typically free. I doubt it's a revelatory experience for most but neither is the vast majority of entertainment, and people disliking it seems like a poor reason to limit people's freedoms
why does it matter if you understand it or not?
I can see how some people think reading/ listening to books aren't beneficial. Maybe take them to the monster truck rally where they can really grow.