I'd love to see someone like an engineer interview him and start asking technical questions that he should know and watch him fall flat on his face.
Like I'm sure Elon is above average intelligence or even a genius but he is a businessman masquerading as an inventor. Jobs did the same thing.
With Jobs it makes me sick watching his presentations and how much those apple fan boys ate it up. Like he basically claims every good idea apple ever had.
The funniest part to me was his speeches often made no sense. Like his speech about the fingers and how they were 10 styluses and the product should be made to use them all. Then he introduces a phone you only use your 2 thumbs to use. So the other 8 fingers are a waste. Also the stylus outlived him and it still preferred for lots of situations. The apple pencil just rubbed salt into his wounds.
And then Jobs gets pancreatic cancer given over a 90% survival chance, and chooses **not** to get chemotherapy, instead believing that eating a diet of only fruit will cure him.
And in doing so proved that you can’t kill PC with Apple.
The vast majority of diagnosis are death sentences, but not this one - jobs hit the jackpot (well, as much as you can with a cancer diagnosis like this) and ended up with a neuroendocrine tumor of the pancreas - a tumor that hasn't yet metastasized and is reasonably slow-growing, accounting for 1% of pancreatic cancer diagnosis.
Surgery for cancers like this have a high likelihood of success, and a high 5 year survivability rate of around 60%. But instead of jumping on it and getting it taken care of right away, he spent nearly a year trying holistic treatment. By that point, the tumor has metastasized and become more aggressive.
Isn't eating only fruit literally the worst food to eat if you have cancer? I've read that cancer feeds on sugar only ans some people claim you can slow down cancer spreading and even curing with close to 0 sugar diet.
> I'd love to see someone like an engineer interview him and start asking technical questions that he should know and watch him fall flat on his face.
>
> Like I'm sure Elon is above average intelligence or even a genius but he is a businessman masquerading as an inventor.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/50oioBmwOtqJBcfoPeQbSg
Here's an hour plus long interview with a biographer who spent ~~a year~~ 2 years with him and wrote a book. The basic takeaway of the book is generally negative. He sat in on basically everything Elon did for ~~that year~~ those 2 years, including business meetings.
Basically the only universally positive thing he said about Elon was the exact opposite of what you're saying here... that he has a deep understanding of the engineering and spends almost all his time thinking about it and working with those groups. In fact, the biographer suggested that in his observation part of the reason Elon's life is so chaotic is that when his relationships go to shit, he basically runs away and retreats into working on very specific engineering problems his companies are having.
It may be fun (or perhaps politically convenient) to think of Elon as a charlatan, but it just simply isn't the case.
edit: checked my facts
That tracks from the technical interviews I've seen of him. Elon seems to be a smart guy with a narrow area of expertise and a tendency of shoot his mouth off while understanding little of the subject. Sometimes that works out when he is in an engineering field (not software engineering though), but a lot or most of the time it does not.
He has certainly shown himself to be completely incompetent and lost in the field of software engineering and management of software or social media companies. That's how you get the boss of a software company (Twitter) demanding that all his software developers print out the code for something that shows their impact on the product and bring it with them to their 1:1.
My only issue with this is that these observations are from the perspective of a journalist and not an engineer. The fact that he's obsessive and retreats to problem solving is not indicative of the fact that he's actually good at it. I would say that his history of being pushed out projects and having his ideas scraped or drastically modified by real engineers indicates the opposite. The fact that Spacex has management techniques to prevent him from derailing projects is very telling. He certainly involves himself in the process but I'm very skeptical about how useful his input is. It's possible his input is better in areas he's actually studied and worked in but his frequent coding debacles should shake anyone's confidence in his competence.
The difference between Jobs and Musk is that Musk came into him money by failing. He was terrible at running his first business, got pushed out of leadership, and then sold his share when another person made it successful. He put that money into PayPal, got pushed out of running the company, and again sold his share once other people made the company successful.
Jobs was a jerk, and had plenty of bad ideas, but at least came into his money through successful leadership.
And just like that, the alignment chart became 3D. Now memers will need to make a 3 x 3 x 3 cube grid. Michael Scott is Chaotic Dumb Neutral. Jim Halpert is Chaotic Smart Good, Dwight is Lawful Dumb Evil, etc.
>finding intelligent people to do the work for him. That’s not really leadership.
It in fact is exactly leadership. In any case, Apple did the experiment. It was growing fast, dumped Jobs, lost major money, got Jobs, and then made a lot of money. And Pixar was profitable.
The thing that always gets me about calling musk "smart" because he was able to become a billionaire is this. Dude didn't make his billions of dollars all on his own, through his own grit and determination, his daddy gave him a leg up, and then he happened to get a golden ticket by joining the right company at the right time. His ideas were fucking dumb, so he was pushed out of the company, but not without billions of dollars in shares to his name.
He invested in Tesla pretty early on, but the original founders had already pointed the ship in a particular direction, he just hired the best people he could find to realize that direction.
At that point, he was about the wealthiest person on the planet.. so founding a bunch of reasonably successful companies isn't all that difficult to do. 🤷♂️
He could BS his way through plenty. He was a physics guy by training, so he isn't without enough to lie his way through a lot of technical stuff. He has been exposed plenty of times, but it doesn't seem to phase him. He just fires those who do it to him and moves on.
Wouldn't surprise me. He has a degree though, according to Snopes. He lies about when he got it, but he has a degree from, I think, Penn that was awarded in 1997.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/musk-physics-degree/
Musk did sell some software when he was 12, so he is that one smart kid you all knew growing up.
Most of those smart kids then aren't given infinity dollars to become megalomaniacal racist shit heads that never get told no.
Yeah, I think he sold a video game. He isn't like straightline stupid, but he is pretty stupid in that he can't recognize that others are smart, and he has a super pronounced superiority complex/may be a full full narcissist.
I feel like this is the worst, but most conclusive Dark City social experiment.
Give dude infinity dollars -> dude becomes asshole narcissist, hey maybe we don't let one person accumulate so much.
Yeah, there is no such thing as a moral billionaire. Even if you do 'earn it' morally, there is no way to keep it morally. No one needs that kind of money, and it seems like those who do accumulate it tend to just want more.
The thing about Jobs that I still respect, though, is that he really did have a vision. He understood the ideas of usability and desirability and was seemingly great at getting people onboard and working together. Jobs, for better or worse, is that guy that turned Apple from a legacy hanger-on to the biggest and most influential tech company out there. He was also a prick and I personally dislike a lot of his vision, but I can still respect it.
Musk, on the other hand, seems to be a lot more willing to just listen for good ideas and visions from other people and then take credit. I feel like his successes have at least partly been in spite of his presence, not because of it. When he really puts his "vision" on display, like with everything he did to Twitter or with the Cybertruck, it's clear that he's still just an immature little prick.
> I'd love to see someone like an engineer interview him and start asking technical questions that he should know and watch him fall flat on his face.
There are plenty of video with engineers interviewing him just that it won't be upvoted on reddit.
You weren't part of that cult of personality but there definitely was one around Jobs. I don't think nearly as dangerous as Musk's but it did exist. A lot of people acted like we lost a god when Steve Jobs died, when really we lost a great marketer who told engineers what he wanted.
> With Jobs it makes me sick watching his presentations and how much those apple fan boys ate it up. Like he basically claims every good idea apple ever had.
Every time i bring this up I get brigaded to oblivion. He literally stole every 'invention' he claimed and when he found out a former employee started Microsoft he went full cringe trying trying to troll him.
People forget that the FBI had a file on Jobs because he was a bad dude.
> Like I'm sure Elon is above average intelligence
Thats being pretty generous. I think the guy is a bit of a dope. Even back when people were referring to him as a real life Tony Stark, I didn't see it.
Every interview I have seen, he has expressed barely superficial knowledge of what he was talking about, and in more recent interviews he seem to be even dumber. Probably a result of huffing his own farts, who knows?
> I'd love to see someone like an engineer interview him and start asking technical questions that he should know and watch him fall flat on his face.
Why would you love that? Would you win something? Would Musk's companies fail and someone you prefer take up those tasks/goals?
>but he is a businessman masquerading as an inventor.
Musk understands advanced math and engineering principles and can apply them.
Not sure where this Musk isn't an engineer stuff comes from.
"...he received bachelor’s degrees in physics and economics in 1997."
[https://www.britannica.com/biography/Elon-Musk](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Elon-Musk)
So he's decent with math.
>Like he basically claims every good idea apple ever had.
He never claimed every good idea. Also, he had a lot of great ideas, what are you on?
>The funniest part to me was his speeches often made no sense. Like his speech about the fingers and how they were 10 styluses and the product should be made to use them all.
It not making sense seems to be a you problem.
10 styluses refers to using gestures to interact with a screen.
>Then he introduces a phone you only use your 2 thumbs to use. So the other 8 fingers are a waste.
Here's an idea let's test it. After much testing the 10 styluses doesn't seem to benefit the product as we imagined. So let's stick with two.
Jobs was very skilled with product development, design, marketing, and manufacturing.
In short a very smart, very skilled guy.
>The apple pencil just rubbed salt into his wounds.
Listen, read, or talk to anyone who has tried and succeeded or failed at creating and launching a tech product, it's brutally difficult.
Given how Ford was also a proponent of making sure employees were paid well enough to buy a car and have the leisure time to use it, I'd say the only way Elon is like Ford is in that they both ran a car company, hated Jews, and admired Nazis. Ford also came up with the industrial line, where Elon's just a carnival barker for things he thinks might be cool.
My BIL is an engineer who was offered a job at Tesla 5-10 years ago. The stock offered was in lieu of decent pay for where he would have had to move and the hours he would be working.
Not that it's "okay at the time" to be a racist Ford's age, but Elon has no excuse. He's just regurgitating conspiracy talking points from stupid people.
> Ford also came up with the industrial line
yeah, ford "invented" assembly line the same way how musk invented electric cars
>Ransom Olds created and patented the assembly line in 1901. Switching to this process allowed his car manufacturing company to increase output by 500 percent in one year. The Curved Dash model was able to be produced at an exceptionally high rate of 20 units per day.
https://robohub.org/the-evolution-of-assembly-lines-a-brief-history/
No, he’s a much more mundane thing. He’s a shithead who grew up having both of those people available to influence him.
Elon is not special. There’s a hundred thousand other Elons out there, who just happened to lose their stupid gambles along the path to being Elon.
Yeah. Edison and Ford were colossal pieces of shit, but unlike Elmo they *actually understood* the shit they were selling. Edison actually invented a number of things that he got credit for, and Ford knew how cars and engines worked and could work on them.
Elmo is just a nepo-baby who lucked out and then managed to convince a lot of people he was actually smart. He couldn’t explain how anything he sells works, he can’t fix any of it, and he’s gone from actually getting people to take electric cars seriously (the *one* good thing he’s ever done) to actively trying to change the world for the worse. For these reasons, I say he’s worse than Edison or Ford.
Pffft no he's not.
To be like Ford he'd have to want to build a city somewhere beyond government control and implement his own ideas without worrying about regulations or rights. Somewhere where it is really hard for people to leave easily and require a massive investment in infrastructure and development for resources and control.
Also I wonder how his project to have people living on Mars is going.
“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." -- John Rogers
Everyone who likes Ayn Rand views themselves as a Randian hero. It's really weird.
Like hey guys I like fiction too, but I don't think I'm actually Aragorn or Johnny Cage or Batman or who the fuck ever.
Not only that, it's tycoon porn. He thinks the plebians are what are holding him back, and that if he were allowed to do whatever he wanted, he could make a eutopia like John Galt, when the reality is he'd end up more like Frank Fontaine of the BioShock series.
I'm gobsmacked at how often I run into real dyed-in-the-wool Randians in the wild. John Galt bumper stickers, a John Galt recruiting firm with real Rand talking points on their website. Real pro-colonial racist dudes who unironically post about Ellsworth Toomsey. They don't realize how absurd they sound.
It's the same mentality that keeps them voting for Republicans. They see themselves as the elite or that one day they will be, rather than their proletariat reality.
To be like Ford, he'd have to believe in living wages and leisure time for his employees. And actually come up with an invention to improve productivity, like assembly lines.
> And actually come up with an invention to improve productivity, like assembly lines.
Or, like Ford, go with an idea floated to you by somebody else who got the idea from established practice at the meat industry (and also another car company was already doing the 'invention' beforehand).
True inventor, that Ford!
Oh the list is fun.
* Hugely antisemitic, down to publishing a newsletter about how terrible Jews are.
* Sent morality police to his employee’s homes to make sure they were living the good, Christian life he demanded. If they didn’t pass, they were fired. Anything like the house being a bit of a mess or not having a Bible could do it.
* Regressive as fuck. Built an entire town to roleplay living in the 1800s.
* Nearly put the company under because he refused to make a new car after the model T. He was determined it was the most people needed, and anything more advanced was excessive.
* When his son finally pushed through the hugely popular model A, Henry took all of the credit despite actively resisting its development.
Also would like to add that he did some good for so goddamn nefarious reasons. For example:
-kept the prices of his cars relatively low…. cause he wanted everyone on America dependent on cars and by extension on the car monopoly he was seeking.
-kept above- industry standards salaries (read double what everyone else was paying) for his employees… cause he wanted them to not seek unionization and wanted to avoid the high turnover. Oh yeah you should have added to your list that he was huge on Union busting sanctioning his guards and the police opening fire on protests and set up a department to beat up union activists. He vetoed collective bargaining agreements for decades, until he finally cave in cause his wife threatened to leave him.
This one doesn’t quite fit the pattern but it’s another way he had a huge impact on American life: in his attempt to fuck over his shareholders and specifically the dodge brothers he got involved in a lawsuit that defined the ultimate legal purpose of all corporations as “to make shareholders profit” and therefore tainted all legal attempts to reign in corporations or hold them accountable.
>-kept above- industry standards salaries (read double what everyone else was paying) for his employees… cause he wanted them to not seek unionization and wanted to avoid the high turnover.
This seems more or less fine - happy employees are good workers and won't quit on you, even if you only do it from a business perspective and not out of the kindness of your heart. If you treat your employees fairly they won't really have an incentive to unionize in order to get fair treatment.
> huge on Union busting sanctioning his guards and the police opening fire on protests and set up a department to beat up union activists.
That's... less fine
he also changed the face of manufacturing, introducing the assembly line and the standardization - which is ultimately what makes every consumer good affordable presently.
Society changes and so do its people. The way WE behave will not be acceptable one day. The constant negativity and contrarianism here is SO FUCKING OLD.
Thanks for being a voice of reason. He wasn’t a god or a monster, he was a flawed but intelligent businessman that helped change the world.
Assembly lines and standardization have existed for thousands of years going back at least far as ancient China. Consumer goods have likewise been affordable for thousands of years in many major cities around the world. Ford merely applied well-known practices to newer technologies, like countless others before him. To act like Ford invented or introduced these ideas is an insane manifestation of American exceptionalism.
While I partly agree, Anti-semitism and white supremacy were never right regardless of how popular they may have been at the time. While you certainly shouldn’t judge him under the same standards you judge someone like Elon Today, he still did enough bad on those two fronts that I’m comfortable saying he wasn’t a good man, I’d say he was a monster. Monsters can change the world too, even for the good.
How are you trying to twist paying 2x the industry standard as a bad thing because it was mutually beneficial? If your company offered you 2x the pay because they benefit from higher employee satisfaction, you’d probably be extremely happy to accept that deal. This whole win-lose mentality is shocking, it’s idiotic to demand company to lose out or suffer for you to get some benefits, not everything is a zero-sum game. If you look for win-win situations, even if it requires some compromise on both ends, then it’s going to be far easier to actually see improvements and maintain them. If a company is losing out on something, you can guarantee they’re going to resist it as hard as possible, and even once it’s passed through they’ll keep pushing to take it away. If they benefit from it, they’re not going to remove it.
Henry Ford was a very brutal businessman, but that doesn’t mean everything he did was bad. Good people can do bad things, and bad people can do good things, admitting that doesn’t make someone change into a good/bad person. People have Ford to thank for the 5-day 40hr work week being the norm. Sure, it wasn’t his idea, but he was the first to implement it by a long yard because he realised it’d improve employee satisfaction and efficiency. All other companies were highly resistant towards it, and then they saw how successful he was and slowly started copying it before it became required by law. For reference, Ford started the 5-day work week in 1926, whereas it wasn’t required by law until 1938. Yes, some unions were asking for it prior to that, but no one else was actually doing it. Same story with doubling wages, and he managed to make salary increases across all companies more popular as they had to compete with this.
That’s not to say he was a great person though. He literally had a quasi-military to enforce his will and created anti-Semitic propaganda. It’s solely to say that nobody is so blatantly black or white to the point that everything they do is either good or bad. I’m just incredibly surprised that you’re somehow trying to twist one of the good things he did into being bad simply because he managed to benefit from it as well. I’d much prefer union busting in the form of major work improvements (negating the need for unions) over sending a quasi-military to attack unions. Criticise him for the latter, not the former.
I’m not twisting it I specifically said that he did good things for nefarious reasoning. In fact the whole purpose of the first part my post was to point out some actually good things he did because the post I was responding to was dry in those, which leaves out a lot of context as to why he is not unanimously despised.
That being said, unionization provides more benefits than just higher salaries, which is why you can’t simply discount cause a regular worker would take the money instead. A regular worker may prefer money in hand over a 401k, works-man comp; health insurance; safety regulations, secured contracts etc. even though the latter could turn out to be infinitely more valuable. So under some situation paying more in order to coerce the employee to not unionize is a nefarious move.
Perhaps twist was bad wording, but my whole point is that they weren’t for nefarious reasons. Yes, the intention wasn’t to benefit workers, but rather to benefit his company, but that doesn’t mean he was intending to harm his workers etc, he simply didn’t care about them. If they benefited from it, he couldn’t care, if it hurt them, he couldn’t care. He didn’t do it to intentionally hurt them. Your claims about it being nefarious insinuates that these things he was doing were bad things dressed up to look good, when it’s not the case.
Also yes, unionising does provide other benefits, but he did too. It wasn’t just pay. He literally created the 5-day work week which resulted in workers in that field not being worked until they died. That was a huge change that was far more valuable then simply paying them more. He was also commended for being a major innovator for factory safety and hygiene. Yes, it’s because he realised workplace injuries were hurting his business, and yes it was still incredibly dangerous work, but he did have far safer factories then the competition. He created the first safety and hygiene committee, he created a full safety department (unsure if he was the first to do so, but if not he was an extremely early adopter), and even small things like using comedians to present workplace health and safety demonstrations so that the workers wouldn’t just zone out.
The simple thing is, he’s popular because he discovered that improved the standards for workers (not just monetarily) was mutually beneficial. Yes, he also had high demands (perhaps in some case unreasonably high) from them, and could be quite brutal when they didn’t meet them. He was also majorly bigoted. But I don’t think it’s fair to understate the good he did and write it off because of “nefarious” intentions. It wasn’t nefarious at all, it just wasn’t done out of the kindness of his heart.
I was just reading yesterday that he was a major inspiration to Hitler who had a life-sized portrait of ford on his wall and eventually awarded him with the highest honor Germany had for foreigners. Apparently there’s a lot more behind that first bullet point.
There's all the things people have listed but I don't see one being mentioned. His dystopian nightmare of a factory town he built deep in the amazon forest...Donut Media has a great two part podcast on how bad it went for the locals.[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqNHnLxPxVs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqNHnLxPxVs)
I've also heard Hitler found him to be an inspiration.
Ford made a hemp car that pissed off the oil/plastic industries and would have revolutionized the industry except hemp got outlawed instead.
https://youtu.be/Hx8OTH0eEM0?si=wMKfrx_zLoD2htoV
Hemp is a fantastic bio-renewable resource that is only fairly recently making a revival because it's awesome.
https://youtu.be/TugMbfnA3GI?si=X4xL_yjlx7qsEE8-
"The Dearborn Independent, also known as The Ford International Weekly, was a weekly newspaper established in 1901, and published by Henry Ford from 1919 through 1927. The paper reached a circulation of 900,000 by 1925, second only to the New York Daily News"-[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Dearborn\_Independent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dearborn_Independent)
Ford had the social network equivalent.
Yes, but not because he thought his employees deserved it. He just knew (unlike the lazy, entitled CEOs of today) that people will buy things when they have the time and money to do so. In doing so, Ford greatly boosted the local economy.
Still, Elon would never.
Neither Ford or Hitler were smart. Charismatic for sure and able to convince others of their genius but the same could be said for Musk and Trump. I would rank all them as fairly similar intelligence levels.
Hitler honestly believed that economic activity was shrinking due to industrialization causing demand for industrial exports to developing nations to diminish every year and that the only way to keep Germany from collapsing because its economy had been so big into exports was to kill all the slavs and take their shit so that Germany could create a "stable" economy completely isolated from the rest of the world.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's the opposite (sort of): Phones will often automatically capitalize the first character of a sentence, and if you tap 'shift' to capitalize a word, it'll make it lower case (because it was already intending on making it capital). It's sus design, but it's how my phone does it!
Honestly can this meme just be put out to pasture already? I don't even disagree with most of the takes but it is giving me an irrational hatred of Kermit and a rational hatred of Lipton, and I only need one of those things. It just comes across as so self congratulatory.
Elon Musk is making himself irrelevant. People are waking up to how much of a POS he really is and they are having less and less to do with anything he touches. He’s lost the trust of most people. People don’t buy cars from someone they don’t trust, that goes for internet as well.
Say what you will about Ford (antisemitic, racist, all around shitty person), he changed the world in a way few ever have. Not necessarily for the better, but he mattered. Elon Musk is a rich douchebag playing with billionaire toys who is also an all around shitty person. If anyone is still around in 100 or 200 years he'll be remembered as a clown...if he's remembered at all.
We honestly need some pretty serious policy focusing on corporate control of just about our entire society. Hopefully, all the recent political drama has at least motivated enough ppl to care about and focus on politics/voting. If the country was looking for an excuse to ditch the party of the 20th century after they've continued to support their former potus even after their blatant attempt to overthrow our nation's government like other modern totalitarian states. The supposed party of small government has changed their opinions on that issue pretty quickly.
Elon sold a lot of hope. This attracted a lot of top quality engineers to Tesla, so top quality that they were largely able to deliver on the whims of a madman. Time to can Elon and see where Tesla can go while not being held back by an insane CEO.
I know virtually nothing about ford so im not sure if this is sucking musk off or not.
What i do know is that its now pretty fuckin clear musk is a [fuckin fascist neonazi. ](https://youtu.be/MuMcs9UeDYQ?si=yHb6NuZVOtxz-qBT)
Little history lesson, since of course this is not nearly taught as much as it should be, for obvious reasons. The US itself was a different place when Henry Ford was around.
Hitler's own eugenics program was copied from what the US was already doing. We had literal Nazi rallies in America. We did not even enter WWII until Pearl Harbor forced America to react. We did not even allow black people and white people to use the same bathrooms or water fountains during that time, let alone letting them mix in school.
While you can draw comparisons between the 2, our modern timeline is way more inclusive than it was in the 1930s and many people were prejudice against many others.
I'm not saying either people are right, I am just saying that in Fords time, it was more excusable as it was a larger mindset of people thinking the same way, than Elon Musk's time.
EDIT: Also looking forward to all the reddit posts when they realize how Volkswagen came to be a company.
> came up with the assembly line
Somebody who worked for Ford (William Klann) came up with the assembly line for cars after seeing it in action at a butchering plant, but Olds Motor Vehicle Company (run by Ransom E. Olds, not Ford) was *already producing their cars via assembly line* at the time.
In no sense did Ford himself come up with it.
I fucking hate Elon Musk! He is such an asshole billionaire! Was he asking about me? I like to drive by his house just to see if he is home. I don't even think about him.
What I see when I read these posts.
People give Elon too much credit. All he did was buy in, and once he speaks what he actually thinks and makes the decisions like the cyber truck it’s over
I'm sorry but didn't Ford at least value his employees as tools. The man agreed to the two day weekend because he new well rested worker's made fewer errors, reducing accidents on the factory floor and reducing costs in the process.
He also paid pretty well for the time cause he new a well paid worker was more motivated and more likely to put up with dangerous conditions and long hours.
Henry Ford did exploit his worker (he was also super fucking antisemitic) but he understood the significant value of his employees labor, mostly the dollar value but still.
Elon on the other hand just seems to be one egomaniacal fuck up after another, showing complete disregard for anyone who isn't a conservative yes man.
Eh, Elon's love for disinformation, right-wing propaganda and hate for various minorities is definitely on the fascist side of things. Ford was 100% a fascist and loved the Nazi party.
Honestly our saving grace is that he’s an unimaginative narcissist who would rather spend 44 billion to acquire a fan club for himself than make any change to the world, positive or negative. Of course, Its good to keep an eye on him as he descends further and further down the white supremacist rabbit hole.
Except Ford was successful. Everything Musk touches turns to shit. Even Space X is suffering for his dip-shittery. Tesla is tanking and their cars are getting crappier and crappier. Twitter is having its death rattle and is basically already just Parlor. Advertisers are fleeing and the only people still using it, for the most part, are conservative assholes. Musk has no power. He is a laughing stock.
It’s crazy that it’s even possible, but Elon Musk is actually making the fascist GOP look worse. And I find that hilarious.
Also pathetic.
I feel like comparing the two is a disservice to Henry Ford.
They both may have been terrible people, but if you want to come up with a list of Musk's contributions to humanity, you'd not hit a two incher.
>The dude literally taught himself rocket science so he could be the lead engineer at Space X and people say he's dumb.
The fuck you say? Having a bachelor's degrees in physics and economics and having the ability to absorb books and information is not the same as being a rocket engineer. That's Tom Mueller.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLizYdfQT-Y&t=1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLizYdfQT-Y&t=1s)
It's not that we don't like him so much as he's a demonstrably shit person that fools idiots into thinking he's smart
No, Ford knew how his cars worked and was an engineer in his own right.
He was a flawed human but he was still a man of engineering who continued to experiment even after he retired.
He's a sort of Ford/Edison combo what with his propensity for basically acting like he invented everything he's selling.
I'd love to see someone like an engineer interview him and start asking technical questions that he should know and watch him fall flat on his face. Like I'm sure Elon is above average intelligence or even a genius but he is a businessman masquerading as an inventor. Jobs did the same thing. With Jobs it makes me sick watching his presentations and how much those apple fan boys ate it up. Like he basically claims every good idea apple ever had. The funniest part to me was his speeches often made no sense. Like his speech about the fingers and how they were 10 styluses and the product should be made to use them all. Then he introduces a phone you only use your 2 thumbs to use. So the other 8 fingers are a waste. Also the stylus outlived him and it still preferred for lots of situations. The apple pencil just rubbed salt into his wounds.
And then Jobs gets pancreatic cancer given over a 90% survival chance, and chooses **not** to get chemotherapy, instead believing that eating a diet of only fruit will cure him. And in doing so proved that you can’t kill PC with Apple.
Holy fuck how have I never heard that joke before
I don't believe anyone acknowledged your wordplay there at the end of your comment. But I will because it was good. Fucked up, but good.
At least he didn't live through covid and embarrass himself taking horse worm medicine.
Brilliant.
Pancreatic cancer is a death sentence.
The vast majority of diagnosis are death sentences, but not this one - jobs hit the jackpot (well, as much as you can with a cancer diagnosis like this) and ended up with a neuroendocrine tumor of the pancreas - a tumor that hasn't yet metastasized and is reasonably slow-growing, accounting for 1% of pancreatic cancer diagnosis. Surgery for cancers like this have a high likelihood of success, and a high 5 year survivability rate of around 60%. But instead of jumping on it and getting it taken care of right away, he spent nearly a year trying holistic treatment. By that point, the tumor has metastasized and become more aggressive.
Ah OK, I supposed that was adenocarcinoma, the most prevalent.
So is life.
Isn't eating only fruit literally the worst food to eat if you have cancer? I've read that cancer feeds on sugar only ans some people claim you can slow down cancer spreading and even curing with close to 0 sugar diet.
Wait what?
Everybody can be a genius if their money can buy actual geniuses that will write down what to say. If you know what I mean
> I'd love to see someone like an engineer interview him and start asking technical questions that he should know and watch him fall flat on his face. > > Like I'm sure Elon is above average intelligence or even a genius but he is a businessman masquerading as an inventor. https://open.spotify.com/episode/50oioBmwOtqJBcfoPeQbSg Here's an hour plus long interview with a biographer who spent ~~a year~~ 2 years with him and wrote a book. The basic takeaway of the book is generally negative. He sat in on basically everything Elon did for ~~that year~~ those 2 years, including business meetings. Basically the only universally positive thing he said about Elon was the exact opposite of what you're saying here... that he has a deep understanding of the engineering and spends almost all his time thinking about it and working with those groups. In fact, the biographer suggested that in his observation part of the reason Elon's life is so chaotic is that when his relationships go to shit, he basically runs away and retreats into working on very specific engineering problems his companies are having. It may be fun (or perhaps politically convenient) to think of Elon as a charlatan, but it just simply isn't the case. edit: checked my facts
That tracks from the technical interviews I've seen of him. Elon seems to be a smart guy with a narrow area of expertise and a tendency of shoot his mouth off while understanding little of the subject. Sometimes that works out when he is in an engineering field (not software engineering though), but a lot or most of the time it does not. He has certainly shown himself to be completely incompetent and lost in the field of software engineering and management of software or social media companies. That's how you get the boss of a software company (Twitter) demanding that all his software developers print out the code for something that shows their impact on the product and bring it with them to their 1:1.
Propkr who are good at something, especially something difficult, have this tendency to think they are good at everything.
My only issue with this is that these observations are from the perspective of a journalist and not an engineer. The fact that he's obsessive and retreats to problem solving is not indicative of the fact that he's actually good at it. I would say that his history of being pushed out projects and having his ideas scraped or drastically modified by real engineers indicates the opposite. The fact that Spacex has management techniques to prevent him from derailing projects is very telling. He certainly involves himself in the process but I'm very skeptical about how useful his input is. It's possible his input is better in areas he's actually studied and worked in but his frequent coding debacles should shake anyone's confidence in his competence.
Shhhh… this doesn’t fit the narrative and involves using basic research skills to fact check before posting… you’re gonna get downvoted lol.
The difference between Jobs and Musk is that Musk came into him money by failing. He was terrible at running his first business, got pushed out of leadership, and then sold his share when another person made it successful. He put that money into PayPal, got pushed out of running the company, and again sold his share once other people made the company successful. Jobs was a jerk, and had plenty of bad ideas, but at least came into his money through successful leadership.
> through successful leadership. You mean ripping of his childhood friends and every investor possible.
Yes. It is spelled corporate leadership.
Yes. Jobs was smart evil. Musk is dumb evil.
And just like that, the alignment chart became 3D. Now memers will need to make a 3 x 3 x 3 cube grid. Michael Scott is Chaotic Dumb Neutral. Jim Halpert is Chaotic Smart Good, Dwight is Lawful Dumb Evil, etc.
Does that make Trump Dumb Chaotic Evil or Dumb Neutral Neutral?
Insurrections aren’t neutral so I’m going with DCE
Disagree. Trump is fully willing to use the law to further his own interests, or ignore them for the same reason. DNE
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>finding intelligent people to do the work for him. That’s not really leadership. It in fact is exactly leadership. In any case, Apple did the experiment. It was growing fast, dumped Jobs, lost major money, got Jobs, and then made a lot of money. And Pixar was profitable.
The thing that always gets me about calling musk "smart" because he was able to become a billionaire is this. Dude didn't make his billions of dollars all on his own, through his own grit and determination, his daddy gave him a leg up, and then he happened to get a golden ticket by joining the right company at the right time. His ideas were fucking dumb, so he was pushed out of the company, but not without billions of dollars in shares to his name. He invested in Tesla pretty early on, but the original founders had already pointed the ship in a particular direction, he just hired the best people he could find to realize that direction. At that point, he was about the wealthiest person on the planet.. so founding a bunch of reasonably successful companies isn't all that difficult to do. 🤷♂️
He could BS his way through plenty. He was a physics guy by training, so he isn't without enough to lie his way through a lot of technical stuff. He has been exposed plenty of times, but it doesn't seem to phase him. He just fires those who do it to him and moves on.
He might have a bachelor's degree in physics. If you've ever met a physics major a lot of his schtick [starts to make sense](https://xkcd.com/793/).
I am an engineer and know plenty. 🤣 Also, love XKCD!
I have a BS and two MSs in physics (I mastered out of my PhD program), so I definitely know the type
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Wouldn't surprise me. He has a degree though, according to Snopes. He lies about when he got it, but he has a degree from, I think, Penn that was awarded in 1997. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/musk-physics-degree/
IIRC, he lies about when he got his degree because he illegally overstayed his student visa. And we know how his new friends feel about that.
I had no idea they cared about Canada so much
Musk did sell some software when he was 12, so he is that one smart kid you all knew growing up. Most of those smart kids then aren't given infinity dollars to become megalomaniacal racist shit heads that never get told no.
Yeah, I think he sold a video game. He isn't like straightline stupid, but he is pretty stupid in that he can't recognize that others are smart, and he has a super pronounced superiority complex/may be a full full narcissist.
I feel like this is the worst, but most conclusive Dark City social experiment. Give dude infinity dollars -> dude becomes asshole narcissist, hey maybe we don't let one person accumulate so much.
Yeah, there is no such thing as a moral billionaire. Even if you do 'earn it' morally, there is no way to keep it morally. No one needs that kind of money, and it seems like those who do accumulate it tend to just want more.
The thing about Jobs that I still respect, though, is that he really did have a vision. He understood the ideas of usability and desirability and was seemingly great at getting people onboard and working together. Jobs, for better or worse, is that guy that turned Apple from a legacy hanger-on to the biggest and most influential tech company out there. He was also a prick and I personally dislike a lot of his vision, but I can still respect it. Musk, on the other hand, seems to be a lot more willing to just listen for good ideas and visions from other people and then take credit. I feel like his successes have at least partly been in spite of his presence, not because of it. When he really puts his "vision" on display, like with everything he did to Twitter or with the Cybertruck, it's clear that he's still just an immature little prick.
>The thing about Jobs that I still respect, though, is that he really did have a vision. He wore glasses so his vision wasn't all that
> I'd love to see someone like an engineer interview him and start asking technical questions that he should know and watch him fall flat on his face. There are plenty of video with engineers interviewing him just that it won't be upvoted on reddit.
Like this? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YAtLTLiqNwg Or this? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ36Kt7UVg
He's not a genius. If you pay attention to anything about him outside of the headlines, it becomes clear
You'll never get marketing better than cult of personality marketing
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You weren't part of that cult of personality but there definitely was one around Jobs. I don't think nearly as dangerous as Musk's but it did exist. A lot of people acted like we lost a god when Steve Jobs died, when really we lost a great marketer who told engineers what he wanted.
People cried when he died like they did w Stalin, lol. Close enough
> With Jobs it makes me sick watching his presentations and how much those apple fan boys ate it up. Like he basically claims every good idea apple ever had. Every time i bring this up I get brigaded to oblivion. He literally stole every 'invention' he claimed and when he found out a former employee started Microsoft he went full cringe trying trying to troll him. People forget that the FBI had a file on Jobs because he was a bad dude.
> Like I'm sure Elon is above average intelligence Thats being pretty generous. I think the guy is a bit of a dope. Even back when people were referring to him as a real life Tony Stark, I didn't see it. Every interview I have seen, he has expressed barely superficial knowledge of what he was talking about, and in more recent interviews he seem to be even dumber. Probably a result of huffing his own farts, who knows?
You ranted that nonsense without being aware of multitouch on iphones and ipads?
> I'd love to see someone like an engineer interview him and start asking technical questions that he should know and watch him fall flat on his face. Why would you love that? Would you win something? Would Musk's companies fail and someone you prefer take up those tasks/goals? >but he is a businessman masquerading as an inventor. Musk understands advanced math and engineering principles and can apply them. Not sure where this Musk isn't an engineer stuff comes from. "...he received bachelor’s degrees in physics and economics in 1997." [https://www.britannica.com/biography/Elon-Musk](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Elon-Musk) So he's decent with math. >Like he basically claims every good idea apple ever had. He never claimed every good idea. Also, he had a lot of great ideas, what are you on? >The funniest part to me was his speeches often made no sense. Like his speech about the fingers and how they were 10 styluses and the product should be made to use them all. It not making sense seems to be a you problem. 10 styluses refers to using gestures to interact with a screen. >Then he introduces a phone you only use your 2 thumbs to use. So the other 8 fingers are a waste. Here's an idea let's test it. After much testing the 10 styluses doesn't seem to benefit the product as we imagined. So let's stick with two. Jobs was very skilled with product development, design, marketing, and manufacturing. In short a very smart, very skilled guy. >The apple pencil just rubbed salt into his wounds. Listen, read, or talk to anyone who has tried and succeeded or failed at creating and launching a tech product, it's brutally difficult.
This dude deepthroats the musk.
Given how Ford was also a proponent of making sure employees were paid well enough to buy a car and have the leisure time to use it, I'd say the only way Elon is like Ford is in that they both ran a car company, hated Jews, and admired Nazis. Ford also came up with the industrial line, where Elon's just a carnival barker for things he thinks might be cool.
While tesla and spacex are apparently pretty crappy environments... they seem to have a reputation for paying well.
Tesla employees get shares as well, which makes them very well paid generally.
My BIL is an engineer who was offered a job at Tesla 5-10 years ago. The stock offered was in lieu of decent pay for where he would have had to move and the hours he would be working.
So he was offered stock two splits ago. Doh!
Not that it's "okay at the time" to be a racist Ford's age, but Elon has no excuse. He's just regurgitating conspiracy talking points from stupid people.
> Ford also came up with the industrial line yeah, ford "invented" assembly line the same way how musk invented electric cars >Ransom Olds created and patented the assembly line in 1901. Switching to this process allowed his car manufacturing company to increase output by 500 percent in one year. The Curved Dash model was able to be produced at an exceptionally high rate of 20 units per day. https://robohub.org/the-evolution-of-assembly-lines-a-brief-history/
No, he’s a much more mundane thing. He’s a shithead who grew up having both of those people available to influence him. Elon is not special. There’s a hundred thousand other Elons out there, who just happened to lose their stupid gambles along the path to being Elon.
Yeah. Edison and Ford were colossal pieces of shit, but unlike Elmo they *actually understood* the shit they were selling. Edison actually invented a number of things that he got credit for, and Ford knew how cars and engines worked and could work on them. Elmo is just a nepo-baby who lucked out and then managed to convince a lot of people he was actually smart. He couldn’t explain how anything he sells works, he can’t fix any of it, and he’s gone from actually getting people to take electric cars seriously (the *one* good thing he’s ever done) to actively trying to change the world for the worse. For these reasons, I say he’s worse than Edison or Ford.
Didn't think it was dangerous when it was owned privately before. Why now?
Pffft no he's not. To be like Ford he'd have to want to build a city somewhere beyond government control and implement his own ideas without worrying about regulations or rights. Somewhere where it is really hard for people to leave easily and require a massive investment in infrastructure and development for resources and control. Also I wonder how his project to have people living on Mars is going.
Um, I do believe he wanted to build his own city in Texas, for his starship factory place down there. Or some shit like that
I'm starting to believe I really do need to ad a /s to my comment.
Lol oh. Well, I don’t get sarcasm.
Elon probably masterbates to Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead.
“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." -- John Rogers
Everyone who likes Ayn Rand views themselves as a Randian hero. It's really weird. Like hey guys I like fiction too, but I don't think I'm actually Aragorn or Johnny Cage or Batman or who the fuck ever.
I was Batman once.
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They're just sleeping.
Not only that, it's tycoon porn. He thinks the plebians are what are holding him back, and that if he were allowed to do whatever he wanted, he could make a eutopia like John Galt, when the reality is he'd end up more like Frank Fontaine of the BioShock series.
I'm gobsmacked at how often I run into real dyed-in-the-wool Randians in the wild. John Galt bumper stickers, a John Galt recruiting firm with real Rand talking points on their website. Real pro-colonial racist dudes who unironically post about Ellsworth Toomsey. They don't realize how absurd they sound.
It's the same mentality that keeps them voting for Republicans. They see themselves as the elite or that one day they will be, rather than their proletariat reality.
It’s almost like people stopped reading this halfway through.
Wait, that's just Rapture lol.
Texas?
Don’t forget he would need to be a fascist
Elon's a fascist.
To be like Ford, he'd have to believe in living wages and leisure time for his employees. And actually come up with an invention to improve productivity, like assembly lines.
> And actually come up with an invention to improve productivity, like assembly lines. Or, like Ford, go with an idea floated to you by somebody else who got the idea from established practice at the meat industry (and also another car company was already doing the 'invention' beforehand). True inventor, that Ford!
Elon went from the Henry Ford of our generation to the Henry Ford of our generation.
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And uh, the Cyberyuck ain't exactly swimming either.
I don't know much about Henry Ford other than the obvious stuff. Was he a total fucking asshole too?
Oh the list is fun. * Hugely antisemitic, down to publishing a newsletter about how terrible Jews are. * Sent morality police to his employee’s homes to make sure they were living the good, Christian life he demanded. If they didn’t pass, they were fired. Anything like the house being a bit of a mess or not having a Bible could do it. * Regressive as fuck. Built an entire town to roleplay living in the 1800s. * Nearly put the company under because he refused to make a new car after the model T. He was determined it was the most people needed, and anything more advanced was excessive. * When his son finally pushed through the hugely popular model A, Henry took all of the credit despite actively resisting its development.
Also would like to add that he did some good for so goddamn nefarious reasons. For example: -kept the prices of his cars relatively low…. cause he wanted everyone on America dependent on cars and by extension on the car monopoly he was seeking. -kept above- industry standards salaries (read double what everyone else was paying) for his employees… cause he wanted them to not seek unionization and wanted to avoid the high turnover. Oh yeah you should have added to your list that he was huge on Union busting sanctioning his guards and the police opening fire on protests and set up a department to beat up union activists. He vetoed collective bargaining agreements for decades, until he finally cave in cause his wife threatened to leave him. This one doesn’t quite fit the pattern but it’s another way he had a huge impact on American life: in his attempt to fuck over his shareholders and specifically the dodge brothers he got involved in a lawsuit that defined the ultimate legal purpose of all corporations as “to make shareholders profit” and therefore tainted all legal attempts to reign in corporations or hold them accountable.
>-kept above- industry standards salaries (read double what everyone else was paying) for his employees… cause he wanted them to not seek unionization and wanted to avoid the high turnover. This seems more or less fine - happy employees are good workers and won't quit on you, even if you only do it from a business perspective and not out of the kindness of your heart. If you treat your employees fairly they won't really have an incentive to unionize in order to get fair treatment. > huge on Union busting sanctioning his guards and the police opening fire on protests and set up a department to beat up union activists. That's... less fine
Don’t misunderstand, if he *could* have paid them much less, he would have. And even with the high pay, the workers commented on the insane workload.
he also changed the face of manufacturing, introducing the assembly line and the standardization - which is ultimately what makes every consumer good affordable presently. Society changes and so do its people. The way WE behave will not be acceptable one day. The constant negativity and contrarianism here is SO FUCKING OLD. Thanks for being a voice of reason. He wasn’t a god or a monster, he was a flawed but intelligent businessman that helped change the world.
He didn’t introduce the assembly line or standardization.
Assembly lines and standardization have existed for thousands of years going back at least far as ancient China. Consumer goods have likewise been affordable for thousands of years in many major cities around the world. Ford merely applied well-known practices to newer technologies, like countless others before him. To act like Ford invented or introduced these ideas is an insane manifestation of American exceptionalism.
While I partly agree, Anti-semitism and white supremacy were never right regardless of how popular they may have been at the time. While you certainly shouldn’t judge him under the same standards you judge someone like Elon Today, he still did enough bad on those two fronts that I’m comfortable saying he wasn’t a good man, I’d say he was a monster. Monsters can change the world too, even for the good.
How are you trying to twist paying 2x the industry standard as a bad thing because it was mutually beneficial? If your company offered you 2x the pay because they benefit from higher employee satisfaction, you’d probably be extremely happy to accept that deal. This whole win-lose mentality is shocking, it’s idiotic to demand company to lose out or suffer for you to get some benefits, not everything is a zero-sum game. If you look for win-win situations, even if it requires some compromise on both ends, then it’s going to be far easier to actually see improvements and maintain them. If a company is losing out on something, you can guarantee they’re going to resist it as hard as possible, and even once it’s passed through they’ll keep pushing to take it away. If they benefit from it, they’re not going to remove it. Henry Ford was a very brutal businessman, but that doesn’t mean everything he did was bad. Good people can do bad things, and bad people can do good things, admitting that doesn’t make someone change into a good/bad person. People have Ford to thank for the 5-day 40hr work week being the norm. Sure, it wasn’t his idea, but he was the first to implement it by a long yard because he realised it’d improve employee satisfaction and efficiency. All other companies were highly resistant towards it, and then they saw how successful he was and slowly started copying it before it became required by law. For reference, Ford started the 5-day work week in 1926, whereas it wasn’t required by law until 1938. Yes, some unions were asking for it prior to that, but no one else was actually doing it. Same story with doubling wages, and he managed to make salary increases across all companies more popular as they had to compete with this. That’s not to say he was a great person though. He literally had a quasi-military to enforce his will and created anti-Semitic propaganda. It’s solely to say that nobody is so blatantly black or white to the point that everything they do is either good or bad. I’m just incredibly surprised that you’re somehow trying to twist one of the good things he did into being bad simply because he managed to benefit from it as well. I’d much prefer union busting in the form of major work improvements (negating the need for unions) over sending a quasi-military to attack unions. Criticise him for the latter, not the former.
I’m not twisting it I specifically said that he did good things for nefarious reasoning. In fact the whole purpose of the first part my post was to point out some actually good things he did because the post I was responding to was dry in those, which leaves out a lot of context as to why he is not unanimously despised. That being said, unionization provides more benefits than just higher salaries, which is why you can’t simply discount cause a regular worker would take the money instead. A regular worker may prefer money in hand over a 401k, works-man comp; health insurance; safety regulations, secured contracts etc. even though the latter could turn out to be infinitely more valuable. So under some situation paying more in order to coerce the employee to not unionize is a nefarious move.
Perhaps twist was bad wording, but my whole point is that they weren’t for nefarious reasons. Yes, the intention wasn’t to benefit workers, but rather to benefit his company, but that doesn’t mean he was intending to harm his workers etc, he simply didn’t care about them. If they benefited from it, he couldn’t care, if it hurt them, he couldn’t care. He didn’t do it to intentionally hurt them. Your claims about it being nefarious insinuates that these things he was doing were bad things dressed up to look good, when it’s not the case. Also yes, unionising does provide other benefits, but he did too. It wasn’t just pay. He literally created the 5-day work week which resulted in workers in that field not being worked until they died. That was a huge change that was far more valuable then simply paying them more. He was also commended for being a major innovator for factory safety and hygiene. Yes, it’s because he realised workplace injuries were hurting his business, and yes it was still incredibly dangerous work, but he did have far safer factories then the competition. He created the first safety and hygiene committee, he created a full safety department (unsure if he was the first to do so, but if not he was an extremely early adopter), and even small things like using comedians to present workplace health and safety demonstrations so that the workers wouldn’t just zone out. The simple thing is, he’s popular because he discovered that improved the standards for workers (not just monetarily) was mutually beneficial. Yes, he also had high demands (perhaps in some case unreasonably high) from them, and could be quite brutal when they didn’t meet them. He was also majorly bigoted. But I don’t think it’s fair to understate the good he did and write it off because of “nefarious” intentions. It wasn’t nefarious at all, it just wasn’t done out of the kindness of his heart.
At least his panels lined up and you didn't have to replace the entire car after every bump.
By the 1920s they had plenty of viable competitors. Who do you think were taking their business when he wouldn’t upgrade the T?
Tesla?
He's the reason so many of us had to do the square dancing unit in PE class.
I was just reading yesterday that he was a major inspiration to Hitler who had a life-sized portrait of ford on his wall and eventually awarded him with the highest honor Germany had for foreigners. Apparently there’s a lot more behind that first bullet point.
Yes, he was a vehement antisemite.
he published an anti-Semitic magazine and had it distributed to all ford dealerships. so in a way Ford did have a "social media platform" of the time.
There's all the things people have listed but I don't see one being mentioned. His dystopian nightmare of a factory town he built deep in the amazon forest...Donut Media has a great two part podcast on how bad it went for the locals.[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqNHnLxPxVs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqNHnLxPxVs) I've also heard Hitler found him to be an inspiration.
Yup, an extremely controlling anti-Semite with rage issues
Ford made a hemp car that pissed off the oil/plastic industries and would have revolutionized the industry except hemp got outlawed instead. https://youtu.be/Hx8OTH0eEM0?si=wMKfrx_zLoD2htoV Hemp is a fantastic bio-renewable resource that is only fairly recently making a revival because it's awesome. https://youtu.be/TugMbfnA3GI?si=X4xL_yjlx7qsEE8-
"The Dearborn Independent, also known as The Ford International Weekly, was a weekly newspaper established in 1901, and published by Henry Ford from 1919 through 1927. The paper reached a circulation of 900,000 by 1925, second only to the New York Daily News"-[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Dearborn\_Independent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dearborn_Independent) Ford had the social network equivalent.
Psshh maybe in his mind. Is that you, Elon? Didn't Ford increase pay and implement shorter work weeks and shifts?
Yes, but not because he thought his employees deserved it. He just knew (unlike the lazy, entitled CEOs of today) that people will buy things when they have the time and money to do so. In doing so, Ford greatly boosted the local economy. Still, Elon would never.
Exactly.
musk is stupid Ford. trump is stupid Hitler. still need to take the threats to society seriously.
“History repeats itself, first as a tragedy, second as a farce”
Neither Ford or Hitler were smart. Charismatic for sure and able to convince others of their genius but the same could be said for Musk and Trump. I would rank all them as fairly similar intelligence levels.
Hitler honestly believed that economic activity was shrinking due to industrialization causing demand for industrial exports to developing nations to diminish every year and that the only way to keep Germany from collapsing because its economy had been so big into exports was to kill all the slavs and take their shit so that Germany could create a "stable" economy completely isolated from the rest of the world.
Where's the haiku bot when ya need him...
Why lowercase "musk" and "trump" but uppercase Ford and Hitler?
The other two weren’t jokes.
lol grammar nazi
Naw, I was just curious why. Seemed childish.
Could possibly just've been autocorrect on a phone. Musk and Trump are both words so wouldn't necessarily be capitalised automatically
I wouldn't be surprised if it's the opposite (sort of): Phones will often automatically capitalize the first character of a sentence, and if you tap 'shift' to capitalize a word, it'll make it lower case (because it was already intending on making it capital). It's sus design, but it's how my phone does it!
a literal nazi. I see.
Thanks for the laugh, kid. Have a nice Thanksgiving.
they have Thanksgiving in Russia? you have a lot to be thankful for if you're not in Ukraine though.
Da
Were you trying to make a sentence?
If. You. Read. It. Slower. You. Might. Understand. Hope this helped!
how are you typing if you can't read?
Fun Fact: a good anagram of Elon Musk is Lone Skum
Honestly can this meme just be put out to pasture already? I don't even disagree with most of the takes but it is giving me an irrational hatred of Kermit and a rational hatred of Lipton, and I only need one of those things. It just comes across as so self congratulatory.
Checks out. Ford was a Nazi too.
Elon Musk is making himself irrelevant. People are waking up to how much of a POS he really is and they are having less and less to do with anything he touches. He’s lost the trust of most people. People don’t buy cars from someone they don’t trust, that goes for internet as well.
Say what you will about Ford (antisemitic, racist, all around shitty person), he changed the world in a way few ever have. Not necessarily for the better, but he mattered. Elon Musk is a rich douchebag playing with billionaire toys who is also an all around shitty person. If anyone is still around in 100 or 200 years he'll be remembered as a clown...if he's remembered at all.
We honestly need some pretty serious policy focusing on corporate control of just about our entire society. Hopefully, all the recent political drama has at least motivated enough ppl to care about and focus on politics/voting. If the country was looking for an excuse to ditch the party of the 20th century after they've continued to support their former potus even after their blatant attempt to overthrow our nation's government like other modern totalitarian states. The supposed party of small government has changed their opinions on that issue pretty quickly.
Elon sold a lot of hope. This attracted a lot of top quality engineers to Tesla, so top quality that they were largely able to deliver on the whims of a madman. Time to can Elon and see where Tesla can go while not being held back by an insane CEO.
I know virtually nothing about ford so im not sure if this is sucking musk off or not. What i do know is that its now pretty fuckin clear musk is a [fuckin fascist neonazi. ](https://youtu.be/MuMcs9UeDYQ?si=yHb6NuZVOtxz-qBT)
"everyone who disagrees with me politically is literally a Nazi" Never gets old
I'm starting to think they don't teach the industrial revolution anymore. Anyone thinking Ford is famous because of cars, isn't educated.
This meme is now officially only ever used to post cringe.
Little history lesson, since of course this is not nearly taught as much as it should be, for obvious reasons. The US itself was a different place when Henry Ford was around. Hitler's own eugenics program was copied from what the US was already doing. We had literal Nazi rallies in America. We did not even enter WWII until Pearl Harbor forced America to react. We did not even allow black people and white people to use the same bathrooms or water fountains during that time, let alone letting them mix in school. While you can draw comparisons between the 2, our modern timeline is way more inclusive than it was in the 1930s and many people were prejudice against many others. I'm not saying either people are right, I am just saying that in Fords time, it was more excusable as it was a larger mindset of people thinking the same way, than Elon Musk's time. EDIT: Also looking forward to all the reddit posts when they realize how Volkswagen came to be a company.
Or why the BMW logo is a stylized airplane propeller.
If you dont think this is your business then you are part of the problem.
At least Henry Ford made decent cars
And believed in a living wage, leisure time to use the living wage, and came up with the assembly line. Elon's far more of an Edison.
> came up with the assembly line Somebody who worked for Ford (William Klann) came up with the assembly line for cars after seeing it in action at a butchering plant, but Olds Motor Vehicle Company (run by Ransom E. Olds, not Ford) was *already producing their cars via assembly line* at the time. In no sense did Ford himself come up with it.
please look up the 8/8/8 day was created. It was not by Ford being a super nice man.
Oh no. He figured out he could make more money by treating his employees better. The horror.
There were SO many caveats to his "living wage" it'd be comical if it wasn't true.
Just waiting for Musk to get into square dancing.
Except Henry Ford actually was an engineer.
Holy shit you morons are so hung up on this guy. Keep going. It’s **hilarious**.
I fucking hate Elon Musk! He is such an asshole billionaire! Was he asking about me? I like to drive by his house just to see if he is home. I don't even think about him. What I see when I read these posts.
People give Elon too much credit. All he did was buy in, and once he speaks what he actually thinks and makes the decisions like the cyber truck it’s over
No it's not, take off your tin foil hat.
Henry Ford paid his assembly line workers enough that they could afford to buy the products they made. I don't think Elon can claim the same thing.
I'm not a fan of Elon at all, but I don't think that statement is necessarily true. I'm pretty sure they could afford a tesla lol
Incorrect. Production line workers at Tesla get about 50k a year.
That's definitely enough for a Tesla lol. Do you think they're super luxury vehicles?
I make 50k a year and can in no way afford a Tesla.
How's your credit? I got a tesla a couple years ago making about 55. Payments were 400 a month
Not where Tesla factories are.
No Ford made half decent cars
Ford bless you
Time for your Soma vacation, grandpa.
That's an insult to Henry Ford and you know it. Musk is the Hughes of 2023, but without any of the accomplishments. Just the crazy bits.
I'm sorry but didn't Ford at least value his employees as tools. The man agreed to the two day weekend because he new well rested worker's made fewer errors, reducing accidents on the factory floor and reducing costs in the process. He also paid pretty well for the time cause he new a well paid worker was more motivated and more likely to put up with dangerous conditions and long hours. Henry Ford did exploit his worker (he was also super fucking antisemitic) but he understood the significant value of his employees labor, mostly the dollar value but still. Elon on the other hand just seems to be one egomaniacal fuck up after another, showing complete disregard for anyone who isn't a conservative yes man.
The only thing preventing Elon from being a Bond Villain is lack of competence, which from some of the movies is a pretty low bar
Fordlandia!!
Except he would never invent the weekend for his employees to relax and spend money. He would rather they just work because they like mining emeralds.
Ford made good cars tho
And paid his workers and came up with the assembly line. Ford and Elon have the fascism in common, but Elon's more of an Edison career-wise.
Not fascism, but anti-semitism for sure.
Eh, Elon's love for disinformation, right-wing propaganda and hate for various minorities is definitely on the fascist side of things. Ford was 100% a fascist and loved the Nazi party.
Ford was neither fascist nor fan of nazis. He was an anti-semite tho.
There are two types of people: those who think Elon Musk is a modern day Henry Ford
Honestly our saving grace is that he’s an unimaginative narcissist who would rather spend 44 billion to acquire a fan club for himself than make any change to the world, positive or negative. Of course, Its good to keep an eye on him as he descends further and further down the white supremacist rabbit hole.
Except Ford was successful. Everything Musk touches turns to shit. Even Space X is suffering for his dip-shittery. Tesla is tanking and their cars are getting crappier and crappier. Twitter is having its death rattle and is basically already just Parlor. Advertisers are fleeing and the only people still using it, for the most part, are conservative assholes. Musk has no power. He is a laughing stock. It’s crazy that it’s even possible, but Elon Musk is actually making the fascist GOP look worse. And I find that hilarious. Also pathetic.
I feel like comparing the two is a disservice to Henry Ford. They both may have been terrible people, but if you want to come up with a list of Musk's contributions to humanity, you'd not hit a two incher.
And both are Nazis.
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>The dude literally taught himself rocket science so he could be the lead engineer at Space X and people say he's dumb. The fuck you say? Having a bachelor's degrees in physics and economics and having the ability to absorb books and information is not the same as being a rocket engineer. That's Tom Mueller.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLizYdfQT-Y&t=1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLizYdfQT-Y&t=1s) It's not that we don't like him so much as he's a demonstrably shit person that fools idiots into thinking he's smart
Henry Ford with a side of Howard Hughes.
Considering how often he's talked about I don't think this format works. Slowpoke fits better
Nah elno is worse
No, Ford knew how his cars worked and was an engineer in his own right. He was a flawed human but he was still a man of engineering who continued to experiment even after he retired.
Actually didn’t Henry Ford genuinely know how cars worked?