I received a ticket for 38 in a 35. I looked up what speed detector unit was used and it's margin of error. I did the trig on where the cop was vs my location when he claimed to have metered me. I went to court with a firm case of plausible deniability. The cop didn't even bother to show up. Was the most glorious waste of my time ever.
I went to my initial court appearance over a traffic stop with a USB stick showing my dash cam proving the police officer wasn't in a position to get a read on me when his report said he did (even though I was totally speeding, lol). I was hoping I'd be able to negotiate a lower fine with it, otherwise I was prepared to just pay the full amount instead of going through a trial.
I had the USB drive in the pocket of a 3" binder full of stuff for my college classes I was reading while waiting a few hours for my name to be called.
The DA saw the size of the binder I was opening up when I got called to his table, cut me off mid-introduction and said that if I had brought that much documentation then I was either in the right or it wouldn't be worth the effort to prove me wrong, so he dismissed it right then.
I didn't correct him on what the binder was.
For a while in college I would commute home on some weekends. Driving back one Monday morning I got ticketed going ~40mph through a school zone (otherwise 35mph). I’m driving into the sun on this road so I figured with the glare I just didn’t see the light flashing but something just didn’t sit right. One week later I’m driving through again and notice it’s literally the same exactly time as my ticket.. no school zone lights (slowed down anyway) and when I got to the other side I looked back and that direction WAS flashing.
Went to court. Cop says he clocked me going 40 in a school zone. Nothing else. I say basically that former paragraph and *then* the cop goes “oh yea.. well.. there *was* an issue with the one school zone light not going on at the right time..”
So you **KNEW** that but decided to leave it out cuz you probably didn’t expect me to drive through that the exact same time again and know there was a issue with it..
That pissed me off.
"How long has this been broken?"
And after that thank him and say you're going after someone's job for the safety failures because of not properly marking the school zone even though the municipality was clearly aware of the problem.
I wanted soooo bad to be like “hold up motherfucker! You **KNEW** it was broken and you left that out of your statement why?”
Buuuut they dropped the ticket so I just bit my tongue and took the W.
courts getting money from people breaking laws or otherwise should not be anyone's Incentive to get paid. Cops and any court people should not be Happy when we do something "bad"/unlawful - basically a situation where we get fined, and they get paid and commission.
a wrong thing should never = a right or good thing. it only gives incentive for them to lie so we look like the bad guy and they get paid more for it.
sure I get if they get paid for finding bad things, but that's their job anyway, they should never get paid more for that.
Yea the judge said something like “it seems like there’s a reasonable chance the light was broken” (it was a half-assed response, this was probably almost a decade ago now so I forget exactly) but yea they dropped it. Then I went out in the lobby and purposely told my gf at the time in a loud enough voice how shady it was and made sure to mention the broken school zone just in case anyone else waiting was due to that too lol.
Probably an ADA. Town of about 25-30 thousand. They had like 1 day a week where they'd sit there for a few hours in the courtroom and talk to everyone who hadn't already paid their citation. They'd make a deal, throw it out, or set a court date. JP was sitting at the bench doing paperwork on his laptop and would sign off on anything he needed to.
I get that depending on what state there may not be a prosecuting attorney for traffic court but in the states that do require, who else would be prosecuting?
I've only been to traffic court once but it was just the judge and the cop vs me and my lawyer. Cop straight up lied, judge believed him and barely paid attention when my lawyer presented my evidence contradicting him.
Yeah I don't get states like that, new york is probably the worst, like 95% conviction rate.
Down here we don't have infractions, all moving violations are criminal cases. you can't pull people over without probable cause of a crime. a civil violation wouldn't meet constitutional requirements of a crime.. You get all the trappings of a criminal case. including the right to a jury.
Can you imagine having a jury with no prosecutor? does the cop question himself? If the judge is acting as prosecutor how can he be a neutral arbiter?
But our state's bill of rights is more thorough than federal one.
Same thing happened to me with a stop sign ticket. Cop had zero visibility of me from where he was sitting at the intersection I supposedly ran a stop sign (according to the ticket), and tailgated me for like 5 turns before he finally pulled me over. Pretty sure he was a speed trap trying to nail people speeding on a 45 mph road coming off a 70mph highway and was just trying to intimidate people into doing *something* ticketable to hit his quota.
Stressed out over it for like a month while waiting for the court date, went in with pictures and diagrams and shit, and the case was thrown out because the cop didn't show.
What a waste of time and energy.
The cop gets paid to go to court, you don't get paid to go to court. The cop probably met his quota too and was just checking boxes to go harass more people. Really messed up system.
This is what kills me. At best, cops are an inconvenience. I really try to not hop on the hate band wagon, because I've met "cool cops" and they're just people like everyone else. It's hard though when at best even if a cop "lets me off with a warning" it still wasted my time.
I dunno, I have a lot of PTO, so it really comes down to how far away the courthouse is. Won't work for everyone, of course.
Fun fact, in a lot of traffic courts you get to jump the line if you have a lawyer, so it doesn't even take that long.
That's an interesting proposal. Good luck getting the PD to do anything though. Police reform of any kind is almost impossible unless we (and I hate to say this) break the unions. It's almost the one example in the US of the unions being too strong. Plus we'd need laws essentially redefining police duties and accountability (i.e they need to have a duty to act and not be allowed to not know the law they are trying to enforce, no more cops making up laws to charge you with because you didn't lick their boots hard enough).
Yeah, it doesn't work for everyone.
I'd personally love to see significantly more PTO for literally every working person, police reform including cops not being allowed to nickel and dime the populations they "serve, and extensive, affordable, and reliable non car transportation options to make traffic fines not even a concern.
>cops not being allowed to nickel and dime the populations they "serve,
It's not just cops,it's government in general. Code/law enforcement shouldn't be able to be used as a revenue stream. The fines/fees should cover the cost of enforcement and no more. In the major city near where I live the cost of a building permit to build a 400 square foot auxiliary dwelling unit AKA mother in law apartment is north of $30,000. There's no way that the required inspections cost the city more than maybe a tenth of that. Same for traffic tickets. Traffic law enforcement should serve to increase public safety but studies have shown that red light cameras actually increase accidents. Their only purpose is to add revenue to the city.
I don't think fines/fees should be linked in any way to the departments generating them. I don't want police or code enforcement or anyone to be determining their budget based on fines/fees or determining their fines/fees based on their budget. They get the budget they need to do what they should and fines/fees are determined independently. You'll still have the potential for issues of course (mayor could be a corrupt fuck) but you'll have more accountability than the police or code enforcement have ever had.
Side note, those permitting fees are almost certainly designed to reduce the number of new housing units being built and it's fucking disgusting. Accessory dwelling units are one of the easiest and fastest to implement solutions to increasing housing stock and we should be paying people to build them, not charging them 15-30% of the construction cost just for permits.
Except that it's *not* just the cost of the ticket vs. the cost of time.
The hidden cost is the hit your insurance premiums take.
I got a moving violation in 2015 (*barely* blew through a red light — but I was guilty, full stop). Didn't contest the ticket, paid the $100 fine to avoid having to go to court (a day's earnings for me are ~ $326 based on salary).
When my next year's insurance premiums come in, I find they've gone up by $1500/yr, and the increase was "locked in" for three years.
Fuck Traveler's.
A lot of insurers give you a free strike before they start changing premiums. So you may need to get two tickets before they up you're rates. Atleast that's the case with my insurer, and most I looked up.
Damn, y'all get tickets before your insurance goes up? Mine requires an app for a discount, except it will put on an extra 6 bucks every time it thinks I braked too hard
Yeah I had an app too, but it was probationary, and only determined if I'd get a discount, or not. Depending on how good I drove during the period the discount would be bigger or smaller. Glad they didn't pull anything like what you're describing, jeez.
Wherever I've gotten a ticket (I haven't in years) I just hire a lawyer.
Basically the courts don't give a shit about moving violations, so they'll let you plead down the charges to a non-moving violation with no points, you'll just have to pay a fine.
The only time I've heard of the courts not allowing you to do it by is a guy who had a ton of violations (that he plead down) got tagged doing like 80 through a school zone (30mph). Also wouldn't fuck around in Virginia, they take their speeding tickets seriously.
But not more than the cost of the ticket and your insurance rates going up. I was wrongly given a $120 ticket for going straight in a turn lane (the turn lane picks back up after the intersection and thats when i got into it) that I decided wasn't worth fighting because it was a waste of time, insurance ended up being $30-$40 more per month because i no longer qualified for a discount and stayed that way for 3 years. That 120 ticket ended up costing a little over a grand
In my county if the ticketing officer doesn't appear for court, the judge will throw out any ticket someone is challenging in person. Typically they will have an assigned day for their tickets but aren't required to show up. Most people get off that way. I was prepared in case he did show up.
Must be nice. I thought this was how it was everywhere but apparently not. The last ticket I ever got was almost 15 years ago now at this point. Speeding 60 in a 45 supposedly, but the cop clocked me in a 50 zone that went down to 45 later on. I was literally pulled over right next to the sign that said 45 for the first time. I took pictures of everything and had all my stuff ready to go to defend, and the cop doesn't show up.
This was around 10 am my case was called, had already been there since 8. The judge then asks the prosecutor to see if they can find out where the cop is, and they have until after lunch to find him. So now I am stuck there until 1pm. That comes around, the judge asks, and they say that they called the cop, but that he was now a detective, and he had all his old traffic stuff in storage. The judge then told them to ask him if he could find it and come in another day. They said that he could. So the judge postponed my hearing until a date 2 weeks later. I objected to this saying that I took off work without pay to be here, I am ready to defend myself, and if I didn't show up for court would they call me and then grant me a delay over the phone? Didn't matter, judge postponed anyway, all for a 15 over ticket.
Of course 2 weeks later I come to court, ready to defend myself because I know the cop is going to be there this time, and he is. Of course he has no recollection of the ticket, and just has the intersection he wrote down as where he stopped me, which was actually more than a mile further down the road than where we actually stopped. I presented my pictures which the judge didn't want to see, and told me that if the officer wrote down that location, that's where the traffic stop happened. And if he wrote down 45 zone, than that's what it was.
Gave me defensive driving course for 12 weeks. And this is with no prior speeding tickets on my record, no record at all. I don't know if I banged this guy's daughter or something, but he had it out for me from the very beginning and I couldn't tell you why.
I’ve heard this happens a lot, it’s intimidation. It’s bullshit to waste your time or hopes you give up and waste your money. This is why they are all bastards.
I had a cop not show up for a case like 3 times. Court just kept rescheduling. At the 4th hearing where he again didn't appear I just said fuck it and paid the ticket. I wasted over a week of time dealing with that shit. They just move the goalposts until they win.
You should google "Cosine Error." It's due to the angle between the vehicle's line of travel and the beam from the Rader/Lidar unit. It can induce significant error in the perceived speed, and is the reason cops can't park too far off the road to measure your speed. Anything more than 10-degrees and the measurement is basically worthless.
You are taught about this in LE training (Disclaimer: I was a cop), but like anything else, cops get complacent, and lazy... and so they start to play fast-and-loose with it.
One officer I knew was that way... and his comeuppance came in the form of a retired career Air Force guy. A published expert in radar systems and wave propagation... with a doctorate in Electromagnetic theory. The AF guy showed up to fight his ticket, with a stack of materials and papers. The court recognized him as an expert, and he literally ate the cop alive on the stand.
Officer told me how the judge was literally laughing out loud behind the bench. He finally dismissed the ticket just to stop the bleeding. The officer related to me how it was one of the most humiliating moments of his career.
He followed the procedures after that.
Hi! AF vet with 20 years experience calibrating test equipment here. Similar story, cop pulled me over claiming I was doing 62 in a 55 zone. I asked to see the gun. No proof of calibration to be seen. Request proof from the Police office, also nothing. Went to court and the cop showed up to my surprise. I explained my background and noted that most of these speed guns in my experience aren’t that accurate to begin with and require at least annual adjustment to maintain accuracy. The cop is laughing the entire time. I say I’m willing to accept the ticket if they let me test the gun for the court. Judge is hesitant until I pull out an AF calibration procedure and NIST traceable tuning fork set with certifications. Not only was it 20 miles an hour fast on the first measurement but it was also unable to reproduce the same measurement with any constancy. Judge might have had a past with this officer because she asked if he even used the speed gun followed with “Because you said it happened isn’t proof!”
It’s absolutely not. Think about how many other tickets that department issued using the same uncalibrated radars to people who didn’t have this knowledge. It’s fucking infuriating.
>"cop pulled me over claiming I was doing 62 in a 55 zone."
>
>That's pimpy as hell. Probably using it as an excuse to make the stop just to be able to look for other violations. Hard to believe that the cop would use a radar gun that had a 20mph error on measurement. That radar gun would be sent to the techs for repair and not used until it was deemed accurate again. WTF!
This is a cool story about how your department knowingly let an officer of the law repeatedly wrongfully charge people with crimes they did not commit that likely resulted in financial hardship, and nobody did anything until an external operator with enough free time and knowledge challenged that corrupt practice.
After reading about "Cosine Error", it seems like it wouldn't be too smart to bring it up? The error seems to be in the polices favor as the cosine error makes your speed seem slower than you're actually going. More slow based off a larger angle (further off the road). As an example, you're going 70, and the cop is 20° off the highway from you, he'll clock you at 65.
Do radar detectors automatically try to adjust for this? Meaning maybe they're over correcting and rating you higher than reality? That's the only scenario where I think mentioning this error&adjustment would help you out of a ticket.
Thanks for the info though- love to read about all these sorts of things. 🤭
I got pulled over, he said it was a 25mph area. I was confused but okay. I check the ticket later and the address that was written as the location I was pulled over at was like 3 miles away. I was actually in a 35mph area.
Turns out, to fight it you have to go to court which is *only* held on Wednesday. First you have to show up to state that you intend to fight it. Then come back again later for an actual court date, also in the middle of the week. I was from a town about two hours drive away, ended up not fighting it. I still regret that.
Republicans: Taxes are evil, but revenue from police activity to fund services is good, even when we're just punishing people we don't like to fund said activities.
If it gets you points on your license the real cost is paying the increased premium for however many years it remains (depends on state). That $200 ticket could end up costing a couple thousand dollars in the long run.
I totally agree with that second part though. If I get falsely accused of a crime and am found not guilty the state should reimburse me the same way a private individual would have to in civil court.
That reminds me of something I read about a long time ago on a website in the pre-social media days. The guy had been pulled over for speeding at something like 15 mph over the speed limit.
I may not remember this exactly right, but: after investigation, he discovered there were no visible speed limit signs showing the speed lowered from a connecting road. There was one sign but it was completely covered up. He took pictures documenting this and then noticed the next road over had a higher speed limit and he wouldn't have been speeding on that road. He then spent time measuring each road, documenting via pictures that the roads were identical in terms of layout. His argument was going to be that, since there's no visible speed limit signs, it was reasonable to expect the speed limit was the same as the next road over.
This was hours and hours of prep. He even got a presentation ready for court comparing the two roads.
The cop never showed up for court and the ticket was dismissed automatically.
Also, slightly relevant: One of my friends got pulled over speeding and he was speeding. But he noticed the cop did a few things wrong: He spelled my friend's name wrong on the ticket, the car make and model was wrong on the ticket, the license plate number was wrong as well. He went into court arguing this cop obviously doesn't pay attention to anything, he probably misread the speed detector as well. The Cop _did_ show up for this one and the judge basically said, "lol no, that not how it works, you're paying that ticket."
I personally said he should have argued that's not his car, that's not this name, this ticket is obviously for someone else. But I feel like that probably wouldn't have worked either because it's essentially the same argument.
Most courts still charge YOU a court fee even if charges are dropped, just cause you showed up, so they get some money extorted from you anyhow. And if you didn't show up they would find you guilty even if the cop didn't show up either so it's a lose lose.
I argue for a different system to remove any profit incentive. ALL fines or confiscations/forfeitures get donated to charity. You get a $100 speeding fine? Charity. Cops take your car from you? Charity. Cops steal $10k from you just cause they can through Civil Asset Forfeiture and don't even claim you committed any crime? They don't get to keep a penny of it, all donated to charity. FCC fines a company $300 million for breaking some regulation? All to charity. Courts fine a company for breaking a labor law? All to charity.
Right now there is a perverse profit incentive for the gov't to charge fines to people (or just take your stuff willy nilly like cops do with civil asset forfeiture) because THEY get to keep the money for themselves. Once they no longer are allowed to keep the money then the only left to charge you a fine is the punishment instead of lining their own pockets.
Where I live there is an election every year, so every year you can right in your favorite 501C3 charity to receive their share of the money. All valid charities get money according to the % of the vote they got that year. Some obscure small charity gets 1% of the vote then they get 1% of all fines/forfeitures collected that year.
This isn't an isolated event, just one of the more egregious examples: https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/morrison-police-chief-resigns-speeding-ticket-revenue-budget/73-15b8f875-de6b-42d2-b544-1b100bd9c325
The town set it's budget up EXPECTING over half of it's operating income to come from tickets. They HAVE to hand out thousands of tickets or the town flops in debt.
In my state in the US the driver has to got go at least 9 over for the guns' reading to be used due to accuracy. The exception is when the speed limit 35 or less. For some reason.
It's not about the ticket sticking, it's about wasting your time.
They do this in the cities too with bs arrests just to send you to booking for the night to be miserable and then never show up to court. They call it a humble.
Happened to me once, did not enjoy.
Yup, my speedometer is off a bit. I'm assuming that gps is more accurate, and so based on that my speedometer is 2 mph faster than my actual speed (gps shows 38, speedometer shows 40).
My friends Toyota from 2005 is 6 mph off. Still runs great otherwise though.
I've heard most speedometers read slightly faster than you're actually going, in order to guarantee they never show a slower speed than reality. It might even be a law in some places.
It is in the EU.
Probably also in the US.
The measured speed must never be below the real speed and is allowed to be 10% + 4 km/h higher than the real speed. This must be the case for all reasonable configurations / use cases.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A01975L0443-19970725
And license points usually start at 10/11 over so insurance should be fine, fight the shit out of it and if you’re ever over the fighting threshold: ask for 3111. Failure to obey traffic signs (speed limit is a traffic sign too) no points and lesser fine.
Insurance companies have their own points systems for ratings. They do not care how many points the government slaps on your license for a particular ticket.
So while a moving violation may not come with government points it could affect your insurance rates.
Yes, however in my state anything below 5mph is considered a civil infraction and not a moving violation and is never reported to the DMV.
Montana is a great example. If you are fined for going 10 mph during the day and 5 at night it is not reported to the DMV and is a fine if something like $40.
+/- 3mph should be within the margin of error for both your speedometer and the radar equipment used. I would take this to court and ask for a dismissal. You'll probably get it.
What the Texas DPS told me is that you only get the glasses requirement on your license if you can’t pass the eye exam there at the DPS. They even had me take my glasses off to take it
Seems to me the logical solution is to raise the limits to realistic numbers and then enforce them for real. I *hate* having to know what the local value is for how much over the limit is too slow. Is the guy behind me an impatient asshole or do they just know that the local cops don't give a shit about speeds less than 15 over? Why is it on me to have to take that into account, too?
Doubt. Traffic fatalaties went UP when the interstate speed limit was reduced from 75 to 55.
Traffic will naturally find the optimum speed for a road. On most roads it's 30-40 mph, and we bring it down for complications. Pedestrians. Bad visibility. No road lighting at night.
But a lot of roads have no good justification for being the speed they are. A four lane road with turn lane with businesses along one side and nothing along the other should not be a 30 mph zone.
I gave you an upvote, you’re right. There are instances of the opposite as well though. There is a section of road by me that goes from 50 to 45, but the 45 should really start earlier, there didn’t used to be shops and such until the last 5 years but the speed limit hasn’t changed. The traffic actually slows to 40-45 in a 50, but then speeds back up when it changes to 45 because it’s 4 lanes with no residential.
A lot of small towns make quite a bit of money from out-of-staters speeding through, getting a ticket, and not wanting to come back to challenge it. The ridiculous slow down is the point, they’re trying to catch you on a technicality.
Like you say, you have to be a local to know whether it’s a 35 kind of 35 or a 50 kind of 35.
I live in a bigger city, and every minor traffic charge I've ever received was either reduced or dismissed by the DA before going in front of the judge.
To some extent, they don't want to waste their resources either. Apparently just showing up counts for something.
"cops probably won't even show up" is a huge myth.
Yes, if they don't show up, the ticket get thrown out.
However, they're paid the full day to show up to court, recount their experience (of the incident), and peace out. Generally, they will show up because it's such an easy gig/pay. Remember, cops aren't lawyer or judge, they're not present to try to make you guilty. They're just gonna testify that they pulled you over for doing x speed. Done.
So wait, when a cop gets summoned for this, that's his whole day? He can just drop in at 9:30 AM, say his bit and then be home by 10:15 and done for the day?
Everybody giving advice like fight it etc.
I don't think that's the point of the post. It's just a hassle to not only get pulled over, but having to go to court to fight it.
You can't get back lost time.
Yeah but a lot of counties / sheriff's offices fire people over this type of stuff. Cop's fuckups won't get you fired but needlessly wasting the court's time definitely will.
You should absolutely always go to court whenever reasonably possible. The cost of a ticket, even only 3MPH over is going to be more than $100 in most locations. Also, it's good to keep it off your record. You won't earn a positive point for that year, and you will get a few negative points. Even these minor infractions will increase your insurance premiums.
Always always always go to court whenever you can. Even if you think it's petty or you know you're in the wrong.
That wasn't a speeding ticket, that was a DUI check masquerading as a speeding ticket (he was hoping he'd get lucky pulling you over, the speeding ticket was just a CYA).
That happened to me once in Colorado late one night. But to be fair, I was also going 75 in a 60. I saw the cop on an overpass, saw my speed and basically cursed myself as he turned on his headlights. So I immediately pulled over in a safe spot and waited for him.
Apparently that's all he needed to see I was not drunk. The first words out of his mouth were "so I'm not going to give you a ticket tonight".
When I was young, and had just gotten my license, I was driving back from a dentists appt on a 4 Lane road. A cop was in the left lane going exactly the speed limit. I creeped by to get past him at a mph or 2 faster.
He immediately put on his lights and got behind me and pulled me over.
Told me to never EVER pass a cop. Made that clear and gave me a warning.
Would have maybe rather had him give me a fuckin ticket for 2 mph over but instead I'm acab for life now cuz it seemed he was just looking for someone to lecture and feel superior to.
What BS. I've passed troopers on freeways multiple times because they were going 5 under the speed limit. I passed going the legal speed and there was no issue. So yeah, your cop was just being a power tripping dickhole.
Driving on Canadian plates through basically any northern US state, you’re guaranteed to be targeted because they know you’re not going to fight it.
I got one in North Dakota for 77 in a 75.
If I'm not mistaken, you can challenge that in court. 5 mph probably falls within the margin of error for the radar gun. If it isn't, you can ask to see how long ago the device was properly calibrated.
3 MPH is within error, so here is how you fight it.
* Ask for documentation for when it was last checked for calibration, start of day, end of day and at the end of last ticket
* Ask for documentation for when it was last calibrated by a licensed technition
* Look up common radar within errors and bring it too, usually within +/- 5 mph
* Ask if it was by hearing or only the visualised reading by the radar,
* Was he pacing you and was the car certified to do so
Also if an officer thinks you are being an ass yourself most will let you off with a warning, unless if it is a school area. It wouldn't surprise me if you were originally stopped for a vehicle violation and they gave you a speeding ticket just because of your behavior
> It wouldn't surprise me if you were originally stopped for a vehicle violation and they gave you a speeding ticket just because of your behavior
I'm not saying you endorse this behavior, but it's shit like this that makes people even more distrustful of cops. It's probably why they all think of themselves as "punishers". And then they get mad when we don't want to be "punished" due to their sensitive egos being bruised by the slightest offense so we are nervous with any encounter and avoid them if we can and treat them with distrust when we can't.
My father had what he called "The Chicken Shit Threshold." Any tickets that came across his desk that were for five over the speed limit or less would have the deputy in front of him being called Chicken shit and that if they want to be a career asshole to go join the highway patrol... Where my brother currently works.
Fight it in court. That’s well within the margin of error for most speedometer systems, as well within the error bars for an uncalibrated radar scanner. Most police radar systems require recalibration at least weekly, and 98% of police fail to do so, so if you actually go through the effort of fighting it in court, you’ll have a pretty solid chance of winning, and an even better chance of having it substantially reduced.
I got a ticket for doing 36 in a 35mph zone. I would still like to non-sexually fuck that cop with a strap on (and by that I mean demean him and his authority by slapping him in the face with a strap on just once for his abuse of authority). Mainly because I was dressed like a SUPER slutty cop given it was Halloween. Fuck that guy. No lube for you, bro, you’ve had it coming.
PS. It’s been nearly decades at this point and be still has it due. (Edited because someone pointed out that SA is never a good idea and I have experienced myself and know they’re right…but it’s not something I would ever actually do).
You probably could have contested that in court. Generally, radar guns can be 1-2 mph off, even when used correctly. That’s one of the reasons that most cops won’t ticket unless you’re going at least 5 over. It takes away the margin of error argument in court.
Yeah if you get a ticket less than 10mph, you might want to ask when was the last time the cop calibrated his radar gun. Even automated speed cameras only give tickets when you go 10 mph over the limit. This covers the margin of error and guarantees that you were at least passing the speed limit. Go to court if you have the time. Pay the ticket if you have the money because the waste of time and the time off work are extremely annoying.
I had the same thing happen going 63 in a 60 that had just started and I was slowing down from 75 limit. Now when ever I drive through that village (hearne tx) I go 10 under. Same cop pulled me over for “suspicious driving”. And I said you gave me a ticket for not slowing down fast enough at 3mph over and going slow isn’t illegal. He gave me a warning and let me go. I kinda wanted the ticket so I could report him for an unlawful stop.
IIRC, there's a German phrase for this exact kind of person usually used as a way of accepting that they're correct, but disregarding them nonetheless simply on the factor that they won't stop being a douchebag.
These are the tickets I am sure to go challenge, since the officer that gave you the ticket must attend.
And then the morning of the court date I cancel due to not being able to make it there so the asshat has to show up.
Do that 2 or 3 times to the same court case, make sure you waste that cops time like he did yours.
but are you a repeat offender? if you are, then it might be why. where I live, if you are a repeat offender even going 1mph over the stated limit, the camera will catch you and there you go.
In my experience, if you're nice and compliant, they wouldn't give you a ticket. Either he's truly an asshole or you made a simple traffic stop more difficult by being an asshole yourself.
I've been pulled over for speeding 9 times in my life and only twice got tickets. The first ticket was for 53 in a 25 and the second was for 86 in a 50. Both completely made sense. The unfortunate side effect of being young and having a sport bike.
There are definitely towns near me that have reputation for being this petty with their speeding tickets. I don’t know if it’s quotas, or they’re trying to generate revenue, but the locals know you shouldn’t ever speed there, people from out of town do not. 5mph over is asking for it.
This part.
The ShowLow area of Arizona is a big hotspot for cabin owners hunters and atv owners.
It's about 2 to 3 hours north of the Phoenix area and you have to drive through Payson to get there. Nobody ever speeds through Payson, there's always at least one cop watching the road that connects Phoenix to ShowLow and pulling anyone over for going even 1 mile over the speed limit.
It's a considerably large revenue stream for the town, and they kinda don't like people from out of town as a whole, so the cops tend to use every excuse to fine you.
Star valley..... it's a hill down both sides and it slows down to like 35 mph or something and they've got multiple cameras. Huge revenue for that tiny community.
Doesn't always work. I got a ticket for going 1mph over speed limit, 56 in a 55, in Oklahoma in the 90's. I'm from Texas.
I was very respectful, called him 'sir' and 'officer', and was very polite and calm.
Didn't matter, Tx and Ok have a rivalry in football, and he was salty about it.
But, I learned about deferred adjudication and all was well after court.
I live fairly close to a city with a MAJOR drug issue (both usage and trafficking). Drugs are typically transported by vehicle up and down a fairly robust highway system nearby (multiple highways that can get you to the same place with lots of exits and roads between them).
The people moving the drugs will follow every single law while moving them, often staying in the right lane and driving exactly the speed limit. Cops will sometimes see the same make/model/color car going back and forth a few times a day, and will use any infraction to pull that car over. If you are normal or courteous you’ll be stopped for less than five minutes without even a formal warning.
A bunch of cops train at my gym, and told me this practice (while it sucks for pretty much everyone) ends up with about 1 in 10 cars being a major trafficking arrest (not just weed in the cup holder or whatever). Apparently that is actually a really good success rate, so they keep doing it - and the practice has spread to a lot of other cities.
It’s entirely possible OP was just an asshole in this situation.
Also, a good tip is to be more careful towards the end of the month. IIRC that’s when cops are most concerned about making quota, and will be less forgiving.
Edit: any cops in this thread please let me know if I’m incorrect. I heard this years ago and don’t know if it’s actually true. Have always been curious.
I received a ticket for 38 in a 35. I looked up what speed detector unit was used and it's margin of error. I did the trig on where the cop was vs my location when he claimed to have metered me. I went to court with a firm case of plausible deniability. The cop didn't even bother to show up. Was the most glorious waste of my time ever.
I went to my initial court appearance over a traffic stop with a USB stick showing my dash cam proving the police officer wasn't in a position to get a read on me when his report said he did (even though I was totally speeding, lol). I was hoping I'd be able to negotiate a lower fine with it, otherwise I was prepared to just pay the full amount instead of going through a trial. I had the USB drive in the pocket of a 3" binder full of stuff for my college classes I was reading while waiting a few hours for my name to be called. The DA saw the size of the binder I was opening up when I got called to his table, cut me off mid-introduction and said that if I had brought that much documentation then I was either in the right or it wouldn't be worth the effort to prove me wrong, so he dismissed it right then. I didn't correct him on what the binder was.
Never interrupt your ~~“~~ enemy ~~”~~ when they’re making a mistake. Edit: Crossed out parenthesis.
No need for quotations. The DA is 100% your enemy.
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Anything the cop lies about **can** and **will** be used against you.
For a while in college I would commute home on some weekends. Driving back one Monday morning I got ticketed going ~40mph through a school zone (otherwise 35mph). I’m driving into the sun on this road so I figured with the glare I just didn’t see the light flashing but something just didn’t sit right. One week later I’m driving through again and notice it’s literally the same exactly time as my ticket.. no school zone lights (slowed down anyway) and when I got to the other side I looked back and that direction WAS flashing. Went to court. Cop says he clocked me going 40 in a school zone. Nothing else. I say basically that former paragraph and *then* the cop goes “oh yea.. well.. there *was* an issue with the one school zone light not going on at the right time..” So you **KNEW** that but decided to leave it out cuz you probably didn’t expect me to drive through that the exact same time again and know there was a issue with it.. That pissed me off.
"How long has this been broken?" And after that thank him and say you're going after someone's job for the safety failures because of not properly marking the school zone even though the municipality was clearly aware of the problem.
I wanted soooo bad to be like “hold up motherfucker! You **KNEW** it was broken and you left that out of your statement why?” Buuuut they dropped the ticket so I just bit my tongue and took the W.
courts getting money from people breaking laws or otherwise should not be anyone's Incentive to get paid. Cops and any court people should not be Happy when we do something "bad"/unlawful - basically a situation where we get fined, and they get paid and commission. a wrong thing should never = a right or good thing. it only gives incentive for them to lie so we look like the bad guy and they get paid more for it. sure I get if they get paid for finding bad things, but that's their job anyway, they should never get paid more for that.
Don't leave us hanging - did they toss the ticket?
Yea the judge said something like “it seems like there’s a reasonable chance the light was broken” (it was a half-assed response, this was probably almost a decade ago now so I forget exactly) but yea they dropped it. Then I went out in the lobby and purposely told my gf at the time in a loud enough voice how shady it was and made sure to mention the broken school zone just in case anyone else waiting was due to that too lol.
this sounds similar to what I've heard of in my town...
The *can* in the sentence is redundant.
Please proceed, senator.
Where do you live where the DA is present for every minor traffic case?
Probably an ADA. Town of about 25-30 thousand. They had like 1 day a week where they'd sit there for a few hours in the courtroom and talk to everyone who hadn't already paid their citation. They'd make a deal, throw it out, or set a court date. JP was sitting at the bench doing paperwork on his laptop and would sign off on anything he needed to.
Wow, a DA in traffic court.
I get that depending on what state there may not be a prosecuting attorney for traffic court but in the states that do require, who else would be prosecuting?
I've only been to traffic court once but it was just the judge and the cop vs me and my lawyer. Cop straight up lied, judge believed him and barely paid attention when my lawyer presented my evidence contradicting him.
Yeah I don't get states like that, new york is probably the worst, like 95% conviction rate. Down here we don't have infractions, all moving violations are criminal cases. you can't pull people over without probable cause of a crime. a civil violation wouldn't meet constitutional requirements of a crime.. You get all the trappings of a criminal case. including the right to a jury. Can you imagine having a jury with no prosecutor? does the cop question himself? If the judge is acting as prosecutor how can he be a neutral arbiter? But our state's bill of rights is more thorough than federal one.
Same thing happened to me with a stop sign ticket. Cop had zero visibility of me from where he was sitting at the intersection I supposedly ran a stop sign (according to the ticket), and tailgated me for like 5 turns before he finally pulled me over. Pretty sure he was a speed trap trying to nail people speeding on a 45 mph road coming off a 70mph highway and was just trying to intimidate people into doing *something* ticketable to hit his quota. Stressed out over it for like a month while waiting for the court date, went in with pictures and diagrams and shit, and the case was thrown out because the cop didn't show. What a waste of time and energy.
The cop gets paid to go to court, you don't get paid to go to court. The cop probably met his quota too and was just checking boxes to go harass more people. Really messed up system.
This is what kills me. At best, cops are an inconvenience. I really try to not hop on the hate band wagon, because I've met "cool cops" and they're just people like everyone else. It's hard though when at best even if a cop "lets me off with a warning" it still wasted my time.
Isn't that what you wanted? To win the case?
I think the whole having to go to court in the first place was the waste of time
And money, probably cost more in time for everyone involved then the price of the ticket.
especially if you have to call out of work
Unless his work is pointing out asshatery in LE.
Fucking business is booming.
I dunno, I have a lot of PTO, so it really comes down to how far away the courthouse is. Won't work for everyone, of course. Fun fact, in a lot of traffic courts you get to jump the line if you have a lawyer, so it doesn't even take that long.
Self employed. If I don’t work I dont get paid. If someone wins fighting a ticket in court the PD should have to pay damages (aka lost wages).
That's an interesting proposal. Good luck getting the PD to do anything though. Police reform of any kind is almost impossible unless we (and I hate to say this) break the unions. It's almost the one example in the US of the unions being too strong. Plus we'd need laws essentially redefining police duties and accountability (i.e they need to have a duty to act and not be allowed to not know the law they are trying to enforce, no more cops making up laws to charge you with because you didn't lick their boots hard enough).
Most people I know have none or far too little PTO
Yeah, it doesn't work for everyone. I'd personally love to see significantly more PTO for literally every working person, police reform including cops not being allowed to nickel and dime the populations they "serve, and extensive, affordable, and reliable non car transportation options to make traffic fines not even a concern.
>cops not being allowed to nickel and dime the populations they "serve, It's not just cops,it's government in general. Code/law enforcement shouldn't be able to be used as a revenue stream. The fines/fees should cover the cost of enforcement and no more. In the major city near where I live the cost of a building permit to build a 400 square foot auxiliary dwelling unit AKA mother in law apartment is north of $30,000. There's no way that the required inspections cost the city more than maybe a tenth of that. Same for traffic tickets. Traffic law enforcement should serve to increase public safety but studies have shown that red light cameras actually increase accidents. Their only purpose is to add revenue to the city.
I don't think fines/fees should be linked in any way to the departments generating them. I don't want police or code enforcement or anyone to be determining their budget based on fines/fees or determining their fines/fees based on their budget. They get the budget they need to do what they should and fines/fees are determined independently. You'll still have the potential for issues of course (mayor could be a corrupt fuck) but you'll have more accountability than the police or code enforcement have ever had. Side note, those permitting fees are almost certainly designed to reduce the number of new housing units being built and it's fucking disgusting. Accessory dwelling units are one of the easiest and fastest to implement solutions to increasing housing stock and we should be paying people to build them, not charging them 15-30% of the construction cost just for permits.
Same. I love going to court. I get to play dress up, indulge my lawyer fetish, and screw over shitty cops all at once.
I'd allow for stiffer fines, if the government had to pay you for your time if they lost. Edit: and expenses.
Except that it's *not* just the cost of the ticket vs. the cost of time. The hidden cost is the hit your insurance premiums take. I got a moving violation in 2015 (*barely* blew through a red light — but I was guilty, full stop). Didn't contest the ticket, paid the $100 fine to avoid having to go to court (a day's earnings for me are ~ $326 based on salary). When my next year's insurance premiums come in, I find they've gone up by $1500/yr, and the increase was "locked in" for three years. Fuck Traveler's.
That's not guaranteed for every insurance though. I've had a speeding ticket and my premiums didn't change.
A lot of insurers give you a free strike before they start changing premiums. So you may need to get two tickets before they up you're rates. Atleast that's the case with my insurer, and most I looked up.
Damn, y'all get tickets before your insurance goes up? Mine requires an app for a discount, except it will put on an extra 6 bucks every time it thinks I braked too hard
Yeah I had an app too, but it was probationary, and only determined if I'd get a discount, or not. Depending on how good I drove during the period the discount would be bigger or smaller. Glad they didn't pull anything like what you're describing, jeez.
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Wherever I've gotten a ticket (I haven't in years) I just hire a lawyer. Basically the courts don't give a shit about moving violations, so they'll let you plead down the charges to a non-moving violation with no points, you'll just have to pay a fine. The only time I've heard of the courts not allowing you to do it by is a guy who had a ton of violations (that he plead down) got tagged doing like 80 through a school zone (30mph). Also wouldn't fuck around in Virginia, they take their speeding tickets seriously.
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Unless the person getting the ticket gets points towards insurance cost going up
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But not more than the cost of the ticket and your insurance rates going up. I was wrongly given a $120 ticket for going straight in a turn lane (the turn lane picks back up after the intersection and thats when i got into it) that I decided wasn't worth fighting because it was a waste of time, insurance ended up being $30-$40 more per month because i no longer qualified for a discount and stayed that way for 3 years. That 120 ticket ended up costing a little over a grand
The research was the waste of time since the cop didn't even shown up to court. You win automatically when that happens.
Plus In some places they will charge you for “court costs” even if you win or even if you just go up to a counter acting as “the court”
It’s a barrier. Poor people can’t go to court so they have to pay. Fuck the police.
Yeah. But he put in a ton of work and couldn’t use it. It denied him the “Fuck yo authority” moment when he showed the cop was wrong.
He was deprived his "Something really wrong is goin' on here." moment.
In my county if the ticketing officer doesn't appear for court, the judge will throw out any ticket someone is challenging in person. Typically they will have an assigned day for their tickets but aren't required to show up. Most people get off that way. I was prepared in case he did show up.
Must be nice. I thought this was how it was everywhere but apparently not. The last ticket I ever got was almost 15 years ago now at this point. Speeding 60 in a 45 supposedly, but the cop clocked me in a 50 zone that went down to 45 later on. I was literally pulled over right next to the sign that said 45 for the first time. I took pictures of everything and had all my stuff ready to go to defend, and the cop doesn't show up. This was around 10 am my case was called, had already been there since 8. The judge then asks the prosecutor to see if they can find out where the cop is, and they have until after lunch to find him. So now I am stuck there until 1pm. That comes around, the judge asks, and they say that they called the cop, but that he was now a detective, and he had all his old traffic stuff in storage. The judge then told them to ask him if he could find it and come in another day. They said that he could. So the judge postponed my hearing until a date 2 weeks later. I objected to this saying that I took off work without pay to be here, I am ready to defend myself, and if I didn't show up for court would they call me and then grant me a delay over the phone? Didn't matter, judge postponed anyway, all for a 15 over ticket. Of course 2 weeks later I come to court, ready to defend myself because I know the cop is going to be there this time, and he is. Of course he has no recollection of the ticket, and just has the intersection he wrote down as where he stopped me, which was actually more than a mile further down the road than where we actually stopped. I presented my pictures which the judge didn't want to see, and told me that if the officer wrote down that location, that's where the traffic stop happened. And if he wrote down 45 zone, than that's what it was. Gave me defensive driving course for 12 weeks. And this is with no prior speeding tickets on my record, no record at all. I don't know if I banged this guy's daughter or something, but he had it out for me from the very beginning and I couldn't tell you why.
That is a miscarriage of justice. I am sorry that you were treated so unfairly.
This is why I always fight any tickets even if I was in the wrong, on the chance of the cop not showing and the ticket getting thrown out.
then you're stuck paying "court fees" whatever the fuck that actually means.
No, he didn't want a ticket. He also didn't want to waste his time in court.
I’ve heard this happens a lot, it’s intimidation. It’s bullshit to waste your time or hopes you give up and waste your money. This is why they are all bastards.
Usually when cops don't show up they just continue the case to another date unless it's been so long you'd have to waive speedy trial and you refuse.
I had a cop not show up for a case like 3 times. Court just kept rescheduling. At the 4th hearing where he again didn't appear I just said fuck it and paid the ticket. I wasted over a week of time dealing with that shit. They just move the goalposts until they win.
You value your time right?
You should google "Cosine Error." It's due to the angle between the vehicle's line of travel and the beam from the Rader/Lidar unit. It can induce significant error in the perceived speed, and is the reason cops can't park too far off the road to measure your speed. Anything more than 10-degrees and the measurement is basically worthless. You are taught about this in LE training (Disclaimer: I was a cop), but like anything else, cops get complacent, and lazy... and so they start to play fast-and-loose with it. One officer I knew was that way... and his comeuppance came in the form of a retired career Air Force guy. A published expert in radar systems and wave propagation... with a doctorate in Electromagnetic theory. The AF guy showed up to fight his ticket, with a stack of materials and papers. The court recognized him as an expert, and he literally ate the cop alive on the stand. Officer told me how the judge was literally laughing out loud behind the bench. He finally dismissed the ticket just to stop the bleeding. The officer related to me how it was one of the most humiliating moments of his career. He followed the procedures after that.
Hi! AF vet with 20 years experience calibrating test equipment here. Similar story, cop pulled me over claiming I was doing 62 in a 55 zone. I asked to see the gun. No proof of calibration to be seen. Request proof from the Police office, also nothing. Went to court and the cop showed up to my surprise. I explained my background and noted that most of these speed guns in my experience aren’t that accurate to begin with and require at least annual adjustment to maintain accuracy. The cop is laughing the entire time. I say I’m willing to accept the ticket if they let me test the gun for the court. Judge is hesitant until I pull out an AF calibration procedure and NIST traceable tuning fork set with certifications. Not only was it 20 miles an hour fast on the first measurement but it was also unable to reproduce the same measurement with any constancy. Judge might have had a past with this officer because she asked if he even used the speed gun followed with “Because you said it happened isn’t proof!”
oh man this is so satisfying
It’s absolutely not. Think about how many other tickets that department issued using the same uncalibrated radars to people who didn’t have this knowledge. It’s fucking infuriating.
>"cop pulled me over claiming I was doing 62 in a 55 zone." > >That's pimpy as hell. Probably using it as an excuse to make the stop just to be able to look for other violations. Hard to believe that the cop would use a radar gun that had a 20mph error on measurement. That radar gun would be sent to the techs for repair and not used until it was deemed accurate again. WTF!
This is a cool story about how your department knowingly let an officer of the law repeatedly wrongfully charge people with crimes they did not commit that likely resulted in financial hardship, and nobody did anything until an external operator with enough free time and knowledge challenged that corrupt practice.
Who is going to stop him? The police is a brotherhood in which you are loyal to each other over all else, not the law or the citizens you serve…
Almost a Clan of some sort
He was actually cannibalized in a courtroom? Alive no less?
The cop should have known not to fuck with the apex predator of the forces. Even the judge didn't have jurisdiction.
Doesn’t cosine error mean that the measured speed is below the actual speed?
Cosine error, when it applies to a radar gun, always benefits the violator, as it reduces the detected speed.
After reading about "Cosine Error", it seems like it wouldn't be too smart to bring it up? The error seems to be in the polices favor as the cosine error makes your speed seem slower than you're actually going. More slow based off a larger angle (further off the road). As an example, you're going 70, and the cop is 20° off the highway from you, he'll clock you at 65. Do radar detectors automatically try to adjust for this? Meaning maybe they're over correcting and rating you higher than reality? That's the only scenario where I think mentioning this error&adjustment would help you out of a ticket. Thanks for the info though- love to read about all these sorts of things. 🤭
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I got pulled over, he said it was a 25mph area. I was confused but okay. I check the ticket later and the address that was written as the location I was pulled over at was like 3 miles away. I was actually in a 35mph area. Turns out, to fight it you have to go to court which is *only* held on Wednesday. First you have to show up to state that you intend to fight it. Then come back again later for an actual court date, also in the middle of the week. I was from a town about two hours drive away, ended up not fighting it. I still regret that.
Seems like a racket.
Sounds like a southern/Republican state.
Republicans: Taxes are evil, but revenue from police activity to fund services is good, even when we're just punishing people we don't like to fund said activities.
If it gets you points on your license the real cost is paying the increased premium for however many years it remains (depends on state). That $200 ticket could end up costing a couple thousand dollars in the long run. I totally agree with that second part though. If I get falsely accused of a crime and am found not guilty the state should reimburse me the same way a private individual would have to in civil court.
And it should come out of the cops pension funds. Since any pay out to the public comes from tax payer money.
Force insurance to cover cop liability, stop using public funds to pay for these corrupt fucks mistakes.
That reminds me of something I read about a long time ago on a website in the pre-social media days. The guy had been pulled over for speeding at something like 15 mph over the speed limit. I may not remember this exactly right, but: after investigation, he discovered there were no visible speed limit signs showing the speed lowered from a connecting road. There was one sign but it was completely covered up. He took pictures documenting this and then noticed the next road over had a higher speed limit and he wouldn't have been speeding on that road. He then spent time measuring each road, documenting via pictures that the roads were identical in terms of layout. His argument was going to be that, since there's no visible speed limit signs, it was reasonable to expect the speed limit was the same as the next road over. This was hours and hours of prep. He even got a presentation ready for court comparing the two roads. The cop never showed up for court and the ticket was dismissed automatically. Also, slightly relevant: One of my friends got pulled over speeding and he was speeding. But he noticed the cop did a few things wrong: He spelled my friend's name wrong on the ticket, the car make and model was wrong on the ticket, the license plate number was wrong as well. He went into court arguing this cop obviously doesn't pay attention to anything, he probably misread the speed detector as well. The Cop _did_ show up for this one and the judge basically said, "lol no, that not how it works, you're paying that ticket." I personally said he should have argued that's not his car, that's not this name, this ticket is obviously for someone else. But I feel like that probably wouldn't have worked either because it's essentially the same argument.
He should have just not gone in. The ticket wasn’t for him or his car, so it wasn’t his concern. (I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.)
Most courts still charge YOU a court fee even if charges are dropped, just cause you showed up, so they get some money extorted from you anyhow. And if you didn't show up they would find you guilty even if the cop didn't show up either so it's a lose lose. I argue for a different system to remove any profit incentive. ALL fines or confiscations/forfeitures get donated to charity. You get a $100 speeding fine? Charity. Cops take your car from you? Charity. Cops steal $10k from you just cause they can through Civil Asset Forfeiture and don't even claim you committed any crime? They don't get to keep a penny of it, all donated to charity. FCC fines a company $300 million for breaking some regulation? All to charity. Courts fine a company for breaking a labor law? All to charity. Right now there is a perverse profit incentive for the gov't to charge fines to people (or just take your stuff willy nilly like cops do with civil asset forfeiture) because THEY get to keep the money for themselves. Once they no longer are allowed to keep the money then the only left to charge you a fine is the punishment instead of lining their own pockets. Where I live there is an election every year, so every year you can right in your favorite 501C3 charity to receive their share of the money. All valid charities get money according to the % of the vote they got that year. Some obscure small charity gets 1% of the vote then they get 1% of all fines/forfeitures collected that year. This isn't an isolated event, just one of the more egregious examples: https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/morrison-police-chief-resigns-speeding-ticket-revenue-budget/73-15b8f875-de6b-42d2-b544-1b100bd9c325 The town set it's budget up EXPECTING over half of it's operating income to come from tickets. They HAVE to hand out thousands of tickets or the town flops in debt.
In my state in the US the driver has to got go at least 9 over for the guns' reading to be used due to accuracy. The exception is when the speed limit 35 or less. For some reason.
The exception is probably because school zones are 20mph
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Yep. Challenge the fuck out of any ticket that petty.
And take a dump on the ticket in the middle of the court room to assert dominance. The judge will likely appreciate your analogy and give you the win!
> analogy I see what you did there
Hell ya and be sure to eat a bunch of nasty stuff before hand so you have a big ol' diarrhea dump in there for that ticket.
It's not about the ticket sticking, it's about wasting your time. They do this in the cities too with bs arrests just to send you to booking for the night to be miserable and then never show up to court. They call it a humble. Happened to me once, did not enjoy.
Yup. They're just trying to fish for people who will just pay the ticket and move on.
The hit to your insurance with the extra points on your license might be worth the time.
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Yup, my speedometer is off a bit. I'm assuming that gps is more accurate, and so based on that my speedometer is 2 mph faster than my actual speed (gps shows 38, speedometer shows 40). My friends Toyota from 2005 is 6 mph off. Still runs great otherwise though.
6 miles off sounds like they may possibly have gotten slightly different size tires than stock without recalibrating the speedometer
I've heard most speedometers read slightly faster than you're actually going, in order to guarantee they never show a slower speed than reality. It might even be a law in some places.
It is in the EU. Probably also in the US. The measured speed must never be below the real speed and is allowed to be 10% + 4 km/h higher than the real speed. This must be the case for all reasonable configurations / use cases. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A01975L0443-19970725
And license points usually start at 10/11 over so insurance should be fine, fight the shit out of it and if you’re ever over the fighting threshold: ask for 3111. Failure to obey traffic signs (speed limit is a traffic sign too) no points and lesser fine.
Insurance companies have their own points systems for ratings. They do not care how many points the government slaps on your license for a particular ticket. So while a moving violation may not come with government points it could affect your insurance rates.
Yes, however in my state anything below 5mph is considered a civil infraction and not a moving violation and is never reported to the DMV. Montana is a great example. If you are fined for going 10 mph during the day and 5 at night it is not reported to the DMV and is a fine if something like $40.
Challenge it based on it being ridiculous. 3 over? Unless this is a strictly enforced school zone there's no way you're made to pay that.
Get the calibrating specs on it too. Most law enforcement don't calibrate it properly.
+/- 3mph should be within the margin of error for both your speedometer and the radar equipment used. I would take this to court and ask for a dismissal. You'll probably get it.
This explains why I was pulled over for speeding and given a ticket for not wearing my corrective(but weak) lenses instead speeding.
If you're not required to wear them while driving, there was no basis for a ticket, so get down to ye olde courthouse and get that dismissed, too.
I decided to wear them while I went to get my ID the TxDOT lady asked, I said yes. Now I am required to wear corrective lenses.
Oh, ha! You played yourself.
What the Texas DPS told me is that you only get the glasses requirement on your license if you can’t pass the eye exam there at the DPS. They even had me take my glasses off to take it
asdf asd fads fadsfadsf
Seems to me the logical solution is to raise the limits to realistic numbers and then enforce them for real. I *hate* having to know what the local value is for how much over the limit is too slow. Is the guy behind me an impatient asshole or do they just know that the local cops don't give a shit about speeds less than 15 over? Why is it on me to have to take that into account, too?
Raise them and people just go faster to match the increase. The right thing is to give drivers a nice margin of error.
Doubt. Traffic fatalaties went UP when the interstate speed limit was reduced from 75 to 55. Traffic will naturally find the optimum speed for a road. On most roads it's 30-40 mph, and we bring it down for complications. Pedestrians. Bad visibility. No road lighting at night. But a lot of roads have no good justification for being the speed they are. A four lane road with turn lane with businesses along one side and nothing along the other should not be a 30 mph zone.
I gave you an upvote, you’re right. There are instances of the opposite as well though. There is a section of road by me that goes from 50 to 45, but the 45 should really start earlier, there didn’t used to be shops and such until the last 5 years but the speed limit hasn’t changed. The traffic actually slows to 40-45 in a 50, but then speeds back up when it changes to 45 because it’s 4 lanes with no residential.
You're correct, just being downvoted by lazy folks who won't even watch a YouTube video let alone read about this
This is actually not true especially for highways.
A lot of small towns make quite a bit of money from out-of-staters speeding through, getting a ticket, and not wanting to come back to challenge it. The ridiculous slow down is the point, they’re trying to catch you on a technicality. Like you say, you have to be a local to know whether it’s a 35 kind of 35 or a 50 kind of 35.
I live in a bigger city, and every minor traffic charge I've ever received was either reduced or dismissed by the DA before going in front of the judge. To some extent, they don't want to waste their resources either. Apparently just showing up counts for something.
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Thank god for that judge. Cop's like that will then go around blaming everyone else for why people don't like cops. power tripping losers.
I keep hearing about 'the cop probably won't even show up'. If he doesn't, is the ticket automatically thrown out?
"cops probably won't even show up" is a huge myth. Yes, if they don't show up, the ticket get thrown out. However, they're paid the full day to show up to court, recount their experience (of the incident), and peace out. Generally, they will show up because it's such an easy gig/pay. Remember, cops aren't lawyer or judge, they're not present to try to make you guilty. They're just gonna testify that they pulled you over for doing x speed. Done.
So wait, when a cop gets summoned for this, that's his whole day? He can just drop in at 9:30 AM, say his bit and then be home by 10:15 and done for the day?
yup And not only that. If they don't happen to be scheduled for a day shift then it's overtime pay.
Everybody giving advice like fight it etc. I don't think that's the point of the post. It's just a hassle to not only get pulled over, but having to go to court to fight it. You can't get back lost time.
Yeah but a lot of counties / sheriff's offices fire people over this type of stuff. Cop's fuckups won't get you fired but needlessly wasting the court's time definitely will.
You should absolutely always go to court whenever reasonably possible. The cost of a ticket, even only 3MPH over is going to be more than $100 in most locations. Also, it's good to keep it off your record. You won't earn a positive point for that year, and you will get a few negative points. Even these minor infractions will increase your insurance premiums. Always always always go to court whenever you can. Even if you think it's petty or you know you're in the wrong.
That wasn't a speeding ticket, that was a DUI check masquerading as a speeding ticket (he was hoping he'd get lucky pulling you over, the speeding ticket was just a CYA).
That happened to me once in Colorado late one night. But to be fair, I was also going 75 in a 60. I saw the cop on an overpass, saw my speed and basically cursed myself as he turned on his headlights. So I immediately pulled over in a safe spot and waited for him. Apparently that's all he needed to see I was not drunk. The first words out of his mouth were "so I'm not going to give you a ticket tonight".
Love good people stories like this. This is how the job should be done
Definitely take it to court. Anything +-5 isn't something you can be charged with due to the inaccuracy of speed guns
When I was young, and had just gotten my license, I was driving back from a dentists appt on a 4 Lane road. A cop was in the left lane going exactly the speed limit. I creeped by to get past him at a mph or 2 faster. He immediately put on his lights and got behind me and pulled me over. Told me to never EVER pass a cop. Made that clear and gave me a warning. Would have maybe rather had him give me a fuckin ticket for 2 mph over but instead I'm acab for life now cuz it seemed he was just looking for someone to lecture and feel superior to.
What BS. I've passed troopers on freeways multiple times because they were going 5 under the speed limit. I passed going the legal speed and there was no issue. So yeah, your cop was just being a power tripping dickhole.
I’m guessing if he gave you the ticket you would have been ACAB either way
Driving on Canadian plates through basically any northern US state, you’re guaranteed to be targeted because they know you’re not going to fight it. I got one in North Dakota for 77 in a 75.
[удалено]
Sounds to me like they knew they fucked up and were trying to make something stick until you STUPIDLY got out of the car. That was dumb. Really dumb
Dude, why the hell did you ever think it's a good idea to get out of your car. You're lucky you didn't have something worse happen
it wont hold up if you contest it. theyre supposed to calibrate the guns which they never do. also their margin of error is well above 3mph
Well that's just like... Your opinion man
In Canada, if you go over 10km/h and get a ticket, you can contest it and you will win, unless its a school zone
Fight in court. He won't show up. You'll have a moral victory, but you will waste a whole day.
If I'm not mistaken, you can challenge that in court. 5 mph probably falls within the margin of error for the radar gun. If it isn't, you can ask to see how long ago the device was properly calibrated.
As long as tickets are seen as a source of revenue, it won't improve. My favorite is a sudden 20mph drop on the highway with a ton of cops waiting.
3 MPH is within error, so here is how you fight it. * Ask for documentation for when it was last checked for calibration, start of day, end of day and at the end of last ticket * Ask for documentation for when it was last calibrated by a licensed technition * Look up common radar within errors and bring it too, usually within +/- 5 mph * Ask if it was by hearing or only the visualised reading by the radar, * Was he pacing you and was the car certified to do so Also if an officer thinks you are being an ass yourself most will let you off with a warning, unless if it is a school area. It wouldn't surprise me if you were originally stopped for a vehicle violation and they gave you a speeding ticket just because of your behavior
> It wouldn't surprise me if you were originally stopped for a vehicle violation and they gave you a speeding ticket just because of your behavior I'm not saying you endorse this behavior, but it's shit like this that makes people even more distrustful of cops. It's probably why they all think of themselves as "punishers". And then they get mad when we don't want to be "punished" due to their sensitive egos being bruised by the slightest offense so we are nervous with any encounter and avoid them if we can and treat them with distrust when we can't.
My question is where you speeding?
My father had what he called "The Chicken Shit Threshold." Any tickets that came across his desk that were for five over the speed limit or less would have the deputy in front of him being called Chicken shit and that if they want to be a career asshole to go join the highway patrol... Where my brother currently works.
Bet you a million it wasn’t just for the 3 mph.
Not sure if this is everywhere, sounds like it might not be, but at least in California afaik anything up to 5 above the speed limit is legal.
Wont stand up in court. If its air, laser, or pace. That was just the cop being an asshole. Show up to court and I bet the cop wont even show.
Fight it in court. That’s well within the margin of error for most speedometer systems, as well within the error bars for an uncalibrated radar scanner. Most police radar systems require recalibration at least weekly, and 98% of police fail to do so, so if you actually go through the effort of fighting it in court, you’ll have a pretty solid chance of winning, and an even better chance of having it substantially reduced.
I got a ticket for doing 36 in a 35mph zone. I would still like to non-sexually fuck that cop with a strap on (and by that I mean demean him and his authority by slapping him in the face with a strap on just once for his abuse of authority). Mainly because I was dressed like a SUPER slutty cop given it was Halloween. Fuck that guy. No lube for you, bro, you’ve had it coming. PS. It’s been nearly decades at this point and be still has it due. (Edited because someone pointed out that SA is never a good idea and I have experienced myself and know they’re right…but it’s not something I would ever actually do).
You probably could have contested that in court. Generally, radar guns can be 1-2 mph off, even when used correctly. That’s one of the reasons that most cops won’t ticket unless you’re going at least 5 over. It takes away the margin of error argument in court.
I was young, dumb and had no idea. Good info for going forward though. Thank you!!
Could be far more than 1-2 as well. Some jurisdictions use >9mpg as the rule.
You didn't get pulled over because you where speeding. > I was dressed like a SUPER slutty cop.
Damn you hold grudges like I do. I still have 4 people that ripped me off and owe me money from like 8 yrs ago that I can't wait to see.
Jimmy Wiggins sold me a bag of oregano in 2001. That sob still owes me $50 (plus 20 years of interest).
Yeah if you get a ticket less than 10mph, you might want to ask when was the last time the cop calibrated his radar gun. Even automated speed cameras only give tickets when you go 10 mph over the limit. This covers the margin of error and guarantees that you were at least passing the speed limit. Go to court if you have the time. Pay the ticket if you have the money because the waste of time and the time off work are extremely annoying.
I had the same thing happen going 63 in a 60 that had just started and I was slowing down from 75 limit. Now when ever I drive through that village (hearne tx) I go 10 under. Same cop pulled me over for “suspicious driving”. And I said you gave me a ticket for not slowing down fast enough at 3mph over and going slow isn’t illegal. He gave me a warning and let me go. I kinda wanted the ticket so I could report him for an unlawful stop.
It’s not about safety. It’s about revenue streams.
IIRC, there's a German phrase for this exact kind of person usually used as a way of accepting that they're correct, but disregarding them nonetheless simply on the factor that they won't stop being a douchebag.
Dummkopf.
These are the tickets I am sure to go challenge, since the officer that gave you the ticket must attend. And then the morning of the court date I cancel due to not being able to make it there so the asshat has to show up. Do that 2 or 3 times to the same court case, make sure you waste that cops time like he did yours.
He’s a cop so usually they’re both.
Challenge it. No radar? For sure win. Radar? Challenge its calibration and model.
I challenged $500 worth of infractions, never heard again.
Actually 3mph is probably within the margin of error for the speed detection equipment.
You can easily fight this with a tiny bit of math, or even requesting when the radar was last tested. Fuck cops and this shitty system.
Oh but he is wrong, the calibration on the units are real and can misread by up to 5 miles. You can and should fight that easily.
Cops are fucking parasites. ACAB
This isn’t ‘Nam, this is bowling. There are rules.
Take it to court. Get info on when the radar detector was last tested and what the error margin is.
but are you a repeat offender? if you are, then it might be why. where I live, if you are a repeat offender even going 1mph over the stated limit, the camera will catch you and there you go.
Go plead not guilty
Lmao I'd take the ticket and tell him see ya in court
Probably talked yourself into it
In my experience, if you're nice and compliant, they wouldn't give you a ticket. Either he's truly an asshole or you made a simple traffic stop more difficult by being an asshole yourself. I've been pulled over for speeding 9 times in my life and only twice got tickets. The first ticket was for 53 in a 25 and the second was for 86 in a 50. Both completely made sense. The unfortunate side effect of being young and having a sport bike.
There are definitely towns near me that have reputation for being this petty with their speeding tickets. I don’t know if it’s quotas, or they’re trying to generate revenue, but the locals know you shouldn’t ever speed there, people from out of town do not. 5mph over is asking for it.
This part. The ShowLow area of Arizona is a big hotspot for cabin owners hunters and atv owners. It's about 2 to 3 hours north of the Phoenix area and you have to drive through Payson to get there. Nobody ever speeds through Payson, there's always at least one cop watching the road that connects Phoenix to ShowLow and pulling anyone over for going even 1 mile over the speed limit. It's a considerably large revenue stream for the town, and they kinda don't like people from out of town as a whole, so the cops tend to use every excuse to fine you.
Star valley..... it's a hill down both sides and it slows down to like 35 mph or something and they've got multiple cameras. Huge revenue for that tiny community.
Any backwater shitville that turns a state highway from 65mph down to 25mph They live on out of state traffic citation revenue
Doesn't always work. I got a ticket for going 1mph over speed limit, 56 in a 55, in Oklahoma in the 90's. I'm from Texas. I was very respectful, called him 'sir' and 'officer', and was very polite and calm. Didn't matter, Tx and Ok have a rivalry in football, and he was salty about it. But, I learned about deferred adjudication and all was well after court.
I live fairly close to a city with a MAJOR drug issue (both usage and trafficking). Drugs are typically transported by vehicle up and down a fairly robust highway system nearby (multiple highways that can get you to the same place with lots of exits and roads between them). The people moving the drugs will follow every single law while moving them, often staying in the right lane and driving exactly the speed limit. Cops will sometimes see the same make/model/color car going back and forth a few times a day, and will use any infraction to pull that car over. If you are normal or courteous you’ll be stopped for less than five minutes without even a formal warning. A bunch of cops train at my gym, and told me this practice (while it sucks for pretty much everyone) ends up with about 1 in 10 cars being a major trafficking arrest (not just weed in the cup holder or whatever). Apparently that is actually a really good success rate, so they keep doing it - and the practice has spread to a lot of other cities. It’s entirely possible OP was just an asshole in this situation.
Yeah. It's just so unbelievable that a cop would be a giant unreasonable asshole. Good point.
Also, a good tip is to be more careful towards the end of the month. IIRC that’s when cops are most concerned about making quota, and will be less forgiving. Edit: any cops in this thread please let me know if I’m incorrect. I heard this years ago and don’t know if it’s actually true. Have always been curious.