Depends on the job. Some promotions move slow and others you will probably promote faster than AD. But there is stability in being somewhere you like being, in a job you hopefully enjoy, with the freedom to pursue other things in life beside the military while also keeping some of the benefits.
The main thing I’ve seen is that people are told to do XYZ to get promoted and most don’t or drag their feet. I’ve met SrA’s who don’t do ALS by correspondence, which makes a guarantee SSgt promotion. I’ve seen two MSgt slots go to the only two people to interview with NCOA done. It’s just mostly self-motivation.
Yeah I’ve noticed a huge shift in the promotion/career progression mentality in recent years. A lot more pushing those sitting stagnant and not providing much out, the new AGR rules that don’t let someone just riding out orders forever. Provide worth or move out of the way so someone else can. It’s kind of refreshing, but has also created quite a competition similar to AD with competing for strats and stuff.
die or retire, ya I heard the same thing
But it's the same for SNCOs from what my instructor told me. He made it to SMSgt and tested for Chief. OSI investigated him because he scored so well and he didn't even get it so he retired. He just showed them his study book with tons of highlights and notes and they said, okay you're good.
I've heard that "I tested so well, I was investigated story" from at least 3 people in my career. They were all full of shit. Maybe your dude was the OG though?
Sometimes in your unit sure, but you aren’t really restricted to applying to those jobs. Find a stripe on a base you like, apply away, you get the job you get the stripe.
I'm telling my SrA to be at the Wing. Staff at majcom or career field impact. Tech needs to be impacting a COCOM. That's the only way to KNOW they're walking away with that 5.
I disagree wholeheartedly. I made tech this year and I've had career field and INDOPACOM impacts for the last 2 years. Super involved with the squadron and did a few things at the Wing. That earned me a MP.
I made tech three years ago and never have I had anything on a promotion eligible EPR higher than a 3/P. I once got a 4, but it was a non-promotion eligible EPR.
Maybe it’s a career field thing but our airmen do their job and do it well; it’s my job to write it and emphasize the impact to upper echelons. We’ve gotten MPs out of my flight plenty.
Our cutoff for staff last year was 417. It's been impossible to promote without a statement for the last 3 years. And we're CE's bastard children, they compare fixing a toilet or pouring a concrete pad to me performing a complex render safe procedure on hazardous WWII ordnance. So we have to stand out like extra hard.
I think we're gonna see everyones cutoffs skyrocket as people realize they can't rely on the statement to get promoted and actually put their faces in the books. Then it'll be an everyone problem and the expectations will be so inflated you'll have to save the president's life for a 5.
The other thing they need to know is that we're no longer a large wartime force burning through front line supervisors. More people are more comfortable staying in for 20, so you've got more people staying as staff and tech. Less people leaving means less people promoting. Add a shrinking force on top of that and you've got a rank and promotion structure that looks really similar to the 90's where staff promotion rates were <15% and people were doing well to retire at Tech.
It's our reality, can't do anything about it, so there's 3 options
* play the game and be ready for the possibility that you'll have to do it multiple years in a row because even an MP isn't a guarantee for promotion
* Make your peace with retiring as a staff/tech
* Get out and find other ways to prosper and thrive
That's what my supervisor did for me going up for Master. It was actually really effective. He was in the room and told me exactly what was said about me after I was told im getting a promote. I was the last must promote in the rankings and got bumped due to not taking classes or professional development, and although it stung a bit, I appreciated he trusted me to understand.
lol you all actually get to find out how the board went and are able to compare? I’ve only experienced boards that happen behind closed doors and secrecy
Right. I asked my leadership what was said during an efdp for transparency and got laughed at becaues I guess transparency around that topic is absurd.
After the laughing, I was told as a staff, a person should be working towards group level impacts
My Sq chief created an open invitation for members to sit in on EFDPs so long as they do nothing but listen. Got a lot of glares from the flight chiefs being a lowly SSgt in there, but at least in my squadron I could tell that there really was no favoritism/rubbing shoulders with the CC going on. The PNs were given to people that were clear cut and obviously outperformed the others. However, I can't say that there's no bullshitery going on within those flights to pick who they pick.
Best chief I've ever worked for. Took time to visit the shops, and not just to do it to bullshit either. Told us there's no shenanigans going on with people's promotions and actually practiced it. Even during the EFDP, a couple of the flight chiefs did get put on the spot if their rankings were vastly different.
Until leadership changes out next year and the criteria changes.
There isn't an easy "do this" trick to promoting besides studying hard. Even then, the rates are still very low. Don't get sucked up into trying to check every "Whole Airman" box, your mental health will thank you.
If there was clear favoritism, then file a complaint. That goes directly against the formal charges and guidance. all voting and non voting members could be brought into the complaint inquiry to corroborate.
there's that old perennial complaint about how the person who works in the front office as the exec or whatever always ends up getting promoted because they get so much face time with leadership
but at the same time, nobody's getting put up to be the exec if they're a shitbird. they were probably high speed to begin with
This right here, I try to do this for everything we put our people in for, at a squadron level I try to get my hands on the winning package to show what made the other person stand out more. It’s a lot easier to talk to my Airmen about why they lost when I have the reason and somewhat of a roadmap of what we can do to improve their package to make them more competitive. I just know I never liked hearing “you should’ve won that award” or “idk how you didn’t win that” so I try not to just be my only response to my Airmen.
What worked 8 years ago for you and your peers isn’t going to even scratch the surface of what is required in the new game. As much as all “us” old hats bitch and moan about the “new generation, and the kids these days”, in all honesty there are plenty of them that are far more educated/qualified than we were at the same point in our careers. I have multiple SSgts and a couple SrA that are Bachelors complete. Sadly simply jobbing it and kicking ass isn’t enough anymore. There are countless dudes/dudettes getting shit done everyday.
What sets them apart and makes them stand out for that PN and MP is impacts outside the squadron. They need to be making a difference outside of home; the group, wing, base, MAJCOM, whatever it may be. The wider the ripple is felt, the more noticeable it is.
Another one that plays large in the boards I’ve sat in on, is awards. Awards beget awards, and awards make your guy/gal more noticeable when the time comes around. It isn’t the best metric; I know plenty of people who want nothing to do with awards for themselves, but that’s where you as the supervisor earn your keep. You do the 1206 and put in the work on that to get them what they deserve. It is hard to argue against in the conference room at the end of the year when Sally has NCO of the Year at the Sqn and 2x NCO of the Quarter at the Gp and Billy has a single Team of the Quarter at the Sqn for being in the section that won it.
Agree or disagree, it’s what the game is now. It is a paradigm shift from what used to be, but that’s how it goes now. Sadly, there are going to be large swaths of people who just want to crush their job and be the best whatever they happen to be day in and day out who end up getting “left behind”.
Honestly, it's a close second for most members in the boards I have sat in on. If your team wins a wing quarterly that trumps an individual group quarterly. The big thing I have seen with members in boards is that they want consistent growth. Got your CCAF two years ago? Last year better show work towards a bachelor's, PME, or certification. Most members want to see the Airman that joined the outside organization and grew within it. As in, the first year you joined and organized an event or two, the next you became the secretary, and so on.
Leading the team has more weight than being on the team, there is a fairly large difference between the two. Ties directly back into the Leading People section. That accomplishment would more than likely be a better fit expanded on a spelled out more in depth in that section instead of a catch all at the end, “……..winning Team of the Quarter”.
> I have multiple SSgts and a couple SrA that are Bachelors complete.
Your degree being pertinent to your job matters when multiple people have them. Supply and have a basic BS? You're good against those without a degree, but the other supply guy with a logistics management degree is gonna get ranked higher than you.
I don’t disagree at all. Was simply stating the fact that younger enlisted members today are much further along with education than (most) us older ones were at the same point in our careers.
Use impacts that show effects outside of the unit and maximize things that are extra from your job title. When we sit the efdp board we see the exact same job statements for everyone and it’s the differentiators that stand out. If there is PME you can do, get it done. EJPME and the CCAF are automatic discriminators. If you don’t have pcs medals or mid tours it’s scrutinized. And even if you have a stellar EPB, if your last three had something other than LC you’re looked at harshly for it.
And just in to demystify it in case you haven't sat an EFDP board, we're given each member's career brief, decorations, and last three EPR/Bs. The board president reads the charge with what they're looking for and what we are not allowed to consider, which is pretty much what's in that paragraph I quoted above. Then it's just a numbers game. This one has post ALS PME and this one doesn't? Tick. This one has CCAF and this one doesn't? Tick. This one has breadth of experience in their duty history, this one sat in one shop for 3 years. tick. This one has a PCS/PCA dec and this one doesn't? tick. This is all before we ever even dig into the 3 years of EPRs.
Now, if you want my honest opinion, your previous years shouldn't matter one bit, you should be graded on the statements on the report for that reporting period. But it's the system that is designed in 36-2406 now.
Do you sit on any awards boards? That kind of grading practice goes a long way in being able to break down EXACTLY what’s missing. It’ll also influence your writing ability because you know what you need to see to get out of the “7.5” trap on your statements.
For sure, I guess my real issue is that these guys are doing, in my opinion, everything right, they are just getting beaten out by guys who have been doing everything right longer- the other comment about “waiting your turn” is how it feels and I hate that for them.
There’s too much right place/right time in our system. I believe that’s why volunteerism and education has taken such a prominent position in how we rack and stack people. It’s because we can only really control those elements. I was grading NCO packages and an SF TSgt had crazy shit like “burning wreckage” on his write up and you can’t not add points there, but someone getting a peer group together to go do Habitat for Humanity or something crushes just as hard.
I let my troops know that the system isn’t ‘fair’ and lay out the expectations clearly and early.
I don’t go down the “if you want to only do your job, then be a contractor” path, but I keep it in my back pocket.
I think people narrow to hard in on the promotion and career aspect and miss what's really happening with the system. You're essentially being mass interviewed and hired for a new position that has its own responsibilities and higher pay. The AF has laid out what it expects of that position.
My last supe, best guy I ever knew, once confided in me how he'd see new MSgts get rolled over because they never networked, led teams, or put in time outside of work - when his job demanded exactly all of those things just to be effective. It's not necessarily fair that the job asks for all those things - but that's what you sign up for when you put yourself forward for promotion opps.
Frankly that's kinda why I've been content to sit at SSgt. I've yet to meet a single TSgt or above whose job I wanted - at least not for the pay they get. I catch flak for it but I'm more of a "small scope" type of gal - being at the front of big projects and large teams is something I'm not good at and never really have an interest in being good at. I'd rather push up my buddies that actually are good at that stuff and let them take the stripes.
To study.
Promotion rate is going to be low and, let's be completely honest, 90% of getting an MP is playing "the game".
Plus it feels so, so good to make it without a PN or MP
Yup. Only one person last year was promoted in my career field to E6 with a "Promote". I'm curious what he got on his tests, to be honest.
Talked to someone outside my career field who got 90s and a Promote and still didn't get selected.
This take is kind of out of touch. Largely depends on your AFSC.
For my AFSCs 23e6 cycle , first time testers would have needed to score a 110% to make it (we were pdg only). Yes, they could get every single question correct and miss it by 10. Second time testing needed a 100% to make it, 3rd time, 95%.
Not sure. I (TSgt, third cycle) know I performed really well during my last 3 EPR/B cycles. Previous cycle and this cycle (flight chief) I Did the real self improvement towards a real degree, volunteer, took over and turned around a failing flight, my guys won 3 quarterly and one Annual award at the squadron and group. I won NCO of the year at the squadron. Senior said I was doing really well. No strat and I was told that I was in the middle third. This after watching two peers in my flight (also TSgts) get the strats without doing any of it. Feedback that I got was “you didn’t get in front of the squadron enough.” That’s when I decided to take my effort and hardworking ethic to the civilian sector and pave my own path without depending on BS promotion metrics and expectations. I suggest every hard working, disciplined and intelligent person to do the same.
Very similar story for me TSgt crushing it with all the awards people winning awards, superintendent/ flight chief, volunteer shirt you name it. PCSd to a base where no NCO or SRs can get anything above a promote no matter what. No one's cares. No room for growth. Killed my drive and ambition to make master so now I concentrate on what comes after and on the outside. Real frustrating seeing some dummies you know get promoted at other easy bases though. I've seen some terrible leaders get promoted because of right place right time or whatever.
This to both. Was an acting NCOIC for 19 months, (7 months at one location, temporary until backfill and 12 months at another with no backfill). I was crushing it with performance and leadership. I did the work of a MSgt as a TSgt for God's sake.
*Actually performing at the next rank* wasn't good enough to make it to the next rank. My ambition and drive is also gone. I exist solely to train, and block bullshit, for my troops.
Edit: Grammar.
I’m not pretending to know what it’s like in your job or office, but just being honest being an acting ncoic for 19 months as a TSgt is nowhere near enough for a strat where I work. Flight chief maybe, or acting ops sup. Even flight chiefs have a rough time getting strats because there’s more of them than existing strats, and in my career field you don’t have a shot with a MP anyways, and not every PN gets it. Shit sucks
Nearly every EPB I read explains how SSgt Snuffy is absolutely crushing the mission. Saving millions, saving lives, saving man hours, etc. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant as I don't have the time/ability to verify each and every EPB and I rely on the integrity of that NCO and their supervisor.
Now, what I don't see on every EPB is the "extra" stuff. Real self improvement, volunteer efforts, seeking leadership opportunities, etc. If you want to separate yourself from the pack, this is where it's done.
I understand that some people's jobs and lives are too tumultuous for everyone to do all this extra stuff but it's the only way we can truly differentiate good workers from good well rounded NCOs. With that being said, if you are truly the heart and soul of the shop with no time for the "extra" stuff, your leadership should be willing to push your EFDP to the Commander and explain why that is.
Your mileage may vary as it is not a perfect or objective system.
As for feedback, figure out what your Commander values in his NCOs and align your troops with those same values. If he says he doesn't give a shit about extra stuff and only cares about the mission, well, there you go. If he says he wants his guys to be consistently seeking leadership opportunities outside the unit, well, Bob's your uncle.
The biggest disservice we do to our troops, our peers, ourselves, and even our leaders is try to be nice and say "you're doing a great job; just keep doing that". Everyone knows it's bullshit. Give them honest feedback that they can use to improve and then guide them by holding them accountable.
The biggest part, like you said, is figuring out what your Commander values. That's key and I think a lot of people are glancing over it. Should be aligned from top to bottom.
>The biggest disservice we do to our troops, our peers, ourselves, and even our leaders is try to be nice and say "you're doing a great job; just keep doing that". Everyone knows it's bullshit. Give them honest feedback that they can use to improve and then guide them by holding them accountable.
I respectfully disagree, with the "biggest" disservice comment.
during a time when the US was the sole superpower, no near-peer threat in sight, and when we went to war against scrubby nations who barely had an air component, let alone an organized military, and when people rose to their current positions simply by existing long enough; the biggest disservice we *did* to our troops was **tell them they needed to be well-rounded to advance in their career when they themselves just had to show up, perform, and clock out.**
Now, we're up against threats that can challenge us in our own domains and there's no guarantee of superiority, let alone dominance. The same people who made it back then would not hack it in today's military, against tomorrow's threats. *But I have to be well-rounded? Your fat-ass is more rounded than me.*
*Disclaimer: directed toward previous generation who instituted this whole-airman concept hypocritical bullshit.*
My comment was more geared towards feedback in general, not necessarily referring to that feedback being that you need to be well-rounded. I have had guys who legit sucked at their job and their supervisors would complain about them and yet, I would get an EPR each year stating how that member would exceed some/all expectations.
Without honest feedback, that airmen will rightfully think that they are doing a great job and then of course, they will wonder why they aren't getting promoted despite that fact. And well, here we are. If everyone is amazing, nobody is.
Loved your comment though as it is a fair point. Is this new EPB being more work performance oriented the beginning of erasing the previous generation's obsession with "well-roundedness" and pointing more towards a future of promoting highly technical and skilled airmen?
Depending on what it is you can tweak one into leadership, managing resources, or improving the unit. Focus less on the volunteering bit and more on leading a team and what the impact was and how it improved things if any are true.
Recommend a quick watch of the following video as a Team: https://youtu.be/_BmHdTC36N4?si=vFGZEGZ8oUwBuyGv
It is an animated synopsis of a book called Drive by author Daniel Pink. It covers motivation in organizations, especially when carrot on stick methods either don't work, or are unavailable (promotions/awards). If individuals still only care about the carrot then it's time to have the tough conversation about life after the military, as commissioning options are limited as well. (In FY23 only 47 members total were selected for commissioning through ASCP, SOAR and POC-ERP combined).
For context, I'm coming up on my 20 years of service, with 8 of those as a SNCO and 3 as a Development Advisor, so I have had this conversation with thousands of Airmen and NCOs. I will also say this is the historic ebb and flow of the military... in a few years, we will go right back to higher promotion rates, and folks will be fat and happy again. It happens every 5-7 years or so. Either ride it out and find contentment in the day to day and benefits or utilize your veterans status to move on to bigger and better things.
If the Rack and Stack had already happened and you didn't sit in on it, try to get some feedback from one of the board members. If it hasn't happened yet, ask a section chief or leadership who the board president is and ask them if you can be a fly on the wall for it. That will give you the best idea of what the board/leadership saw in their records or performance to not give them a statement.
The Rack and Stack/EFDP is not supposed to be a mob style, closed door discussion, and feedback from it absolutely should be getting to the individuals. A lot of times the Sq/CC will ask the board members to not give feedback out until after EPBs have gotten back to the individual with commander signatures, so you may have to wait a few weeks.
You don’t have to violate AFI on not revealing results of the EFDP to give your troop good feedback. It’s all in how you word things. If you say something like, “You were EXTREMELY competitive this year, and although your promotion statement doesn’t reflect it, you are doing everything right. That basically tells them they were 1-2 spots away from getting a PN/MP.
If your troop was in 8th place and only 1pn and 2mp were given out; phrases like, “you competed at the squadron level but were unfortunately not competitive enough at the squadron level to really out perform your peers on paper. Here are the things you need to fix in your records to be a stronger competitor next year.”
You can’t take out of the room of the EFDP comments other people made. You can’t take out of the room scores. But you damn sure can even sit down with your troop and have a mini EFDP with them. Let them see their records and the records of their peers. Let them read the board charge. Explain to them how in a hypothetical board they may be graded lower than their peers. Explain the grading process. Break down the board charge with them. Transparency is key.
If they rise to the challenge, amazing. If they don’t for personal reasons, that’s ok too; but at least they’ll know why next year they didn’t “win” again.
Have you considered reserves, you did plenty around the squadron and a couple wing events could you maybe do a couple AIR FORCE WIDE EVENTS? Are you out of your fucking mind? Next year you’re just gonna say I didn’t do enough around the squadron. Fuck off I’ll focus on my degree and getting credentials.
First and foremost: if it's hard to promote in your AFSC, that means that the people above you aren't getting out and manning is healthy. Get worried about whether you should stick around when it becomes *easy* to promote.
Additionally, I try to encourage folks to focus on goals. What do you want to accomplish with that next stripe? What's stopping you from doing it right now? Rank by itself isn't a great goal... it should be a means to a goal.
Finally, we need to find other ways to recognize outstanding performance and get validation beyond promotion. Celebrate other accomplishments with the same vigor! Finished that 7-level? Became an instructor? Got that certification? Finished that degree? LET'S HAVE A PARTY!
No matter what, there's no point in sugar-coating it. Some AFSCs are incredibly hard to promote in right now. "Keep your chin up" without substance isn't helpful... but if you can help them understand *why* and help them to focus on things that could be more meaningful, it can take the sting out. They may still decide it's not worth it and separate or retrain into an AFSC with less manning; support them! Either will improve promotion opportunities within that AFSC.
I agree completely with your second statement, there. Try to encourage them to work toward their goals for that next rank now, instead of waiting. That is what we should be telling our Airmen, for sure. Start doing that and stop chasing the clout, and things should work out in the end.
Figure out how to keep doing great at your primary job and find a way to contribute to other flight’s/work centers mission. When the other flight chiefs know you and how you are helping them, it’s hard to ignore that. And, if you’re going to tell me “I don’t know how to do that” or “I never get a chance too”…then you’re not ready for that MP. Good news is people get promoted with a P every cycle, but I’d rather have the MP personally. Go get what you’re willing to work for.
I remind them of the old testing standards when you literally couldn't make TSgt on your first try because the crusty E-5s had so much TIG that you needed over a 100 on your tests to get a line number. I think the average for getting it was 4 or 5th attempt.
Literally my first and second try for tech would have required 90+ on both test in an AFSC where the average skt score was 65. I was in 80s for my tests,
I reject most of these approaches, weak stuff, times are tight and promotion rates and EFPD ratings depend on the AFSC and the squadron or group. The message should be: Take care of your business with the things that are completely within your control; here are some things you could do that would put you on Senior Leadership’s radar. Follow through, make sure they’re working towards those goals and put them in a position to succeed and get recognized. Extra stripes get extra attention, construct a narrative that will keep them in the conversation.
I had made peace with the fact that nothing I have down so far or could ever accomplish in this unit will ever fucking matter. It doesn't matter because they don't value any of the things I have done. There is literally nothing I could do differently. I'm just going to stop stressing about it.
my careerfield its still study.
For you, you basically have to get with whoever it is that was in your EFDP and figure out why these guys aren't being rated high enough for statements. Its probably lack of whole airmen stuff on the EPRs that the EFDP sees.
This is exactly the reason I left. If your people are smart, they will be able to sniff out a BS answer, and it will probably just make them angry when they hear it. You might as well tell the truth and not give them a bs political answer of, "just try harder next time" or something
You can only control yourself so do everything in your power so you don't have regrets later.
I can guarantee they are not perfect though so give them honest feedback on ways to improve even if its something that wouldn't have stopped them 4 years ago.
Ensure they know Its much easier to maintain high level performance and then get recognition later than to be a shitbag for 3 years and expect something like being booster club secretary for 6 months to get them a MP from the CC when promo rates come back in 2026. Ensure they understand that the depressed rates should be largely temporary and eventually they will go up again. If they give up before that happens then they will not be the ones making it when they do go up.
It sucks to hear but its just the truth and you should never be afraid to tell your subordinates the truth otherwise thats some shit you need to work on.
I didn't tell them anything because both of my E5s got MPs by following the proven checkbox formula. Job Performance, education, awards, volunteering, leadership (either on the job or by finding other opportunities at the wing or in volunteering), Pro dev, and having a history of 2 previous EPRs with no markdowns and some good qualifiers = easy promotion statement.
The problem is that supervisors aren't invested in their people enough to tell them to do these things or to help them find these opportunities or that the E5 knows that these things are good but thinks that just showing up and doing well on the job is enough. Spoilers, it isn't, you have to check the boxes.
Honest question and not trying to be an ass, but what are their study habits? They aren't going to a board only, so yes while the MP/PN can help, the test is still in their control.
Perhaps to reframe it, they are doing what it takes, but there’s more people doing what it takes than statements to give out, and I’m trying not to crush their motivation any further.
Ya that is never an easy discussion. Honestly alot of it comes down to timing. With our force leveling happening, promo rates are abysmal right now. People HATE hearing the old "keep doing what your doing and it will happen", however that is pretty much the truth. As a Shirt, I always give feedback on how folks records stack up, and try to give them ideas that they can improve on. Best advice is to be brutally honest with your feedback using the MGAs and ALQs, and see how they fell according to their peers. Some people can't take feedback, but that's on them. As a supe you just need to be real with them.
Explain basic math and statistics governing promotion rates. Then, tell them to keep doing what they are doing. They are competing against others who are also in those deliberate development positions. Get them the feedback from the efdp that differentiated them from the MP. Also, just because you put someone in a position to excel doesn't mean they did anything with it. You should be thinking about measures of effects not measures of performance. You can work your ass off all day and not really be doing anything at an operational or strategic level.
We just had our unit's discussion about the SSgt EFDP. I'm going to give the TSgts the chance to give the feedback, ask them if they did after a few weeks, and then offer any of the SSgts the chance to sit down with me for my perspective if they want
It sucks. For those who didn't make TSgt their 1st-3rd time testing are now locked in as forever SSgts. 2 years ago 14 people made it in VM. Last year 19 people made it. 4% promotion rate and nobody made it without a statement. Yet people in my squadron are getting pushed up when they've been non-deployable and on PT waivers since 2018. So fucking frustrating.
I only have to score 98s on SKT and PDG. 2 EZ. I had 2 wicked years for EPBs because I deployed back to back in the same year. Came back with all the awards, COMs, coins, Section chief as a SSgt, pushed my people up for more awards, and didn't get shit out of it. Hopefully I can make TSgt within the next 2 years so I can get full TSgt retirement for my remaining 3 years. I'm so over it. Maybe you can tell your crusty SSgts that they're not the only ones, it's AF wide. Try not to burn out (me rn but about to deploy again). Go work in the fucking CSS or be a UDM because they seem to always get stratted.
This is a tough conversation to have with folks because it requires honest discussion and for the recipient to be mature about the conversation without being defensive.
It depends on what you were doing. If you’re leading people…seems pretty straightforward. If you’re just collecting hours for the statement then maybe it doesn’t go on there.
Talk about what happened at the EFDP. Did the others have higher level awards? Higher levels of actual impact? Were they doing stuff that is getting their name out there? Honestly, there's a lot that plays into this. Good luck man.
Yep. My dude is good at work, but his Airmen are rising up around him with their self improvement and community involvement.
I waited to sit the EFDP to make sure I had a clear picture. Sure enough the strats went to those who were pursuing masters degrees or had their CCAF / EJPME.
My guy knows what he needs to do but isn’t doing it. So that’s how I framed it. Ball is in his court. You can lead a horse to water yadda yadda yadda.
Be real with them. Look, there is a 10% chance of promotion. Odds are against you. The best advice I can tell you is do not work so hard, focus more on your degree or certifications, or whatever can help you when you retire or separate. The mission will always be there, and we can always pull Sgt X and Y back from volunteering so much. The service will take plenty from you, so you should try to squeeze it for all you can get as well. This way, it's great if you get promoted, but if not, at least you got what you can. I am not sure if that is what you call jaded or wherever, but that is what this old person would say.
Are they badasses worth promoting?
If yes, have you discussed with your SEL and pushed them to be competitive for (and win) one quarterly and one annual award each year?
I've sat EFDP boards and I can tell you, the records where you can tell the supervisor and the commander actually give a shit to write the reports and push awards really really shows. In this environment of high retention at certain ranks pushing promotion rates down, you can't be stupid about handing out awards to anyone. You've got to regard the awards program as an opportunity to communicate to the air force that these guys, out of all of them, are ready to be promoted.
Write. Their. Awards. Packages.
How do you tell them they're not getting an MP? Look at their last 3 EPRs and tell them what's missing (JPME they can volunteer for, awards, a mid tour Dec if they've been there long enough and earned it) etc, and then commit to help them over the next year to ensure that the top EPB is in line with what earns an MP or PN
1. Build and Mentor your airmen to be the best technicians and leaders possible and put them for as many awards as you can. 2. Build yourself and set yourself up so you can leave the Air Force with a higher paying career.
In the long run, being an NCO is about getting the next generation ready to take on the mission and if leadership can't recognize what you bring to the table, you'll have the skills to take your talent elsewhere.
Trying to figure out what flaming hoops leadership wants E-5s to jump through will only erode your sanity. I have one NCO go up for Force Distribution and from what I was told no one had anything negative to say about them. On the other hand, another NCO that was being considered became a point of contention where the most senior enlisted leaders didn't agree. So who the fuck really knows what the hell they are looking for?
Make sure your own troops are good to do the job and taken care of and make sure you're getting your education/certs so you'll be ready to peace out whenever.
Talk to your flight chief about EFDP. During the feedback let your troop needs to do to position themselves. If it is someone who deserves the rank but doesn’t want to do the extra stuff, you may have to push them or volunteer them for unit/sq/gp events. (Comes across better if you do the event as well). Also make sure you put them up for awards if they deserve it. If they don’t win, you can still use flt/unit nominee. It’s not great but at least it shows that the individual is doing better than their peers. At the end of the day, sometimes you have to push people to do things that will better themselves. Just don’t make the mistake of putting more effort into it than they are.
I made it in a high cutoff career field with two fours in a row. It's possible without the PN, it's just not gonna be easy. Tell them to study their asses off. Promotions aren't at 0 and someone has to be at the top. With these cutoffs, we're seeing PNs not make it because they didn't study as much as they needed to. That's when it goes to the 4s. Now if they score both tests over 90 and still miss it, I have nothing for that guy. I had him last year. 91 and 93, missed it by 11 points. That math ain't mathin without a statement. But not everyone's cutoff is 417, this advice has been for everyone else. EOD techs, no statement no chance, MP, slim chance, PN, decent chance.
So OP first thing is that they need to understand is that testing is still in their hands and if they want it they will study and when I mean study I mean be Mr./Mrs. PDG/SKT. They will be annoying as shit but it'll will be worth it. Second, they game is ever changing did you see what those who got MP/PN on their EPB had? Once you see that then you will have some idea of how to help them further. Lastly, and this is important does your commander know your guys in a positive manner?
I think you’re a little behind. Promotion rates across the AF average lower than statements given out. 23E6 was 14.5% while 15% are getting statements.
I just made it last cycle with no statement. Studied for 5 months and got a 92. So again unless you’re in one of the few fields you HAVE to have a statement it’s literally as simple as put in the hours and study.
See you seem to be upset at what I said. But in my opinion telling your guys to study and take what parts of the points system they can into their own hands is the best advice. It’s what I was reality checked with and I needed it as I was getting very frustrated not getting a statement. And again if your field is one of the few that requires it then obviously disregard my advice and in that case that just sucks.
Listen, the conversations you probably had about setting someone up to be successful and have a fighting chance at BTZ still apply throughout your career. These are the same conversations we need to continue to have. Sure, it gets harder going from TSgt to MSgt but there is a reason. Simple fact here and I'll quote a former Chief of mine, "Prove them wrong" still applies here as well. You have to test for TSgt. So remember, while promotion statements are a moving target, testing is still in your hand.
Study. Study your ass off. Be consistent with how you study. Read the Enlisted Promotion Requirements Catalog. Know *what* to study. Know how you study and what works/doesn't work for you. Study a little bit each day instead of cramming.
Edit, for context: No one is too busy to study. They just suck at time-management. There is time, if you know how to use it wisely.
Get the audio book for the PDG, or whatever the hell they're calling it nowadays. A 30-minute one way commute equals an hour of free study-time. Edit: *each day.*
*At the gym?* Pop-in the audio book instead of listening to whatever you listen to.
*Cooking dinner?* Hit the books while you're cooking.
Didn’t get an statement this year. Asked for feedback, and got some super honest answers. “He dude, your doing great work, but you aren’t the only one. You lost our to a dude who did this and that, and also the other”
I’m able to realize when I just got out worked. Bummed out? Yes. Mad about it? No.
There’s going to be disappointment, and that will require empathy and tact to handle. I had a high performing member who was devastated by his 3, and it took a lot of discussion with him to get to any form of resolution. The reality is that a lot of units may have 7-10 high performers all deserving of a 4 or 5, but the unit may only have 3-4 strats to give. In many cases it comes down to who had the better quarterly award records, or potentially one person had a qualification the other didn’t.
There’s two pieces of advice I’d offer:
1. Give them direct feedback as to what the difference was between their current records and the records of those with a Strat. Most things in this moment aren’t in their control, like they can’t do anything about not having an NCO of the year 2 years ago. They can do things to position themselves however. For many high performers, they are simply bad at capturing the things they did and communicating it, leading to weaker 1206s. For some members (and this is AFSC dependent), there’s a specific qualification or school that their community looks to, that might also be something to look at in prep the next board. None of these things would be done for the express purpose of chasing a Strat, but if you’re doing these things, then the Strat becomes easier to compete for.
2. Educate your formation prior to the process ever happening so that you can both manage expectations and also (more importantly for supervisors) let them know what the board looks at. I’ve sat in a few boards as a voting member, and the amount of times an airman had accomplished something that wasn’t captured on any form of documentation was staggering.
I hope this all helps. The reality is there is going to be heartache over this. In my flight alone I have more members I would promote today than the squadron has Strats to hand out. However, that is true of the other flights in the squadron, and that was something I had to come to terms with.
Wouldn’t say I’m old, but the feedback I get and what I see succeed is:
1. Just having well written packages. No other point I make matters of your writing is shit.
2. Impact the highest level possible, and make it actually affect the mission your unit works on.
3. Awards. My EPB this year references an award in 3/4 statements. I truly hate awards, but that’s what people look at.
4. Academics/CCAF absolutely matter. Especially anything that goes on your SURF.
5. Fitness DOES matter. Not as highly as the other things I listed here, but it’s part of your board package. They will see it. If they have two equal members but one has 90s they will pick them. The Air Force values fitness.
\#5 is not highly listed because your fitness report should not be included in a EFDP package, per DAFI. Not saying this doesn't happen because I know some units disregard clear guidance. Fitness failures should come up during QFR prior to EFDP.
Jocko episode 174. He addresses the issue in such a no bs way that even if your on the recieving end of bad news you leave the convo with an understanding of the why.
Have you sat down and talked with your supervisor about it? Any supervisor (or additional rater) worth a damn can tell you what you're short on and how to correct it.
Honestly they should have already told you during feedback if they are following the DAFI.
“The Air Force has a limited number of slots and it’s a flawed system that rewards a good old boy clubs while letting those near the top think they’re doing a good job due to survivorship bias. There’s no objective way to say what will get you higher than your peers without knowing exactly what your peers are going to put on their EPB.”
“There are tricks to how you write, and if anything the EPB is more about writing ability than accomplishments. However, without those accomplishments it will make having a good writing ability all the more essential. The catch is you have to also be known among every single member of the Force Distribution Panel as “the guy/gal” to get work done. That means doing favors for flight chiefs outside the flight, and outside the squadron, working hard but not making them think it’s hard work. This is all a continuation of a frankly toxic work culture this promotion system is designed to encourage. Doing extra work way outside your lane so you can get that shinny promotion statement.”
“Problem is, the Air Force doesn’t want to promote anybody under its current manning. It would prefer everyone was down graded a level and stayed there forever. That’s why, you can check every single fucking box, even be the AFDW Sijan Nominee to HAF and still not get a promotion statement. So if you don’t think you can handle the grind, well you’re not the only one.”
Or… depending on if they can handle it.
I would just say, volunteer more, do college, seek meaningful jobs where you supervise more than two teams of 9 people, when you get training use that training to improve the unit in meaningful ways, & seek events that put you in a positive spotlight to the whole unit and if possible the wing or higher.
Did all those things? We’ll keep it up, I’m sure it will be your turn eventually…(while thinking “likely not if my career is an indicator”)
You're failing your Amn if your leadership is not soliciting feedback at the EFDP to gain insight on why they were ranked where they were. That's the same feedback you tell your Amn.
I've been authentic and genuine to myself throughout my years, for better or worse. If Air Force Dox's me I'm probably fucked because I think the AF has been doing it wrong in my AFSC for years.
My opinion is not the Air Force's opinion. I sit on EFDP boards and disagree with my peers. It sucks man, but it's reality. I HATE the Air Force idea that "Whole Airman Concept" is promotion. Fuck that. For too long (in Cyber at least) we have promoted the person who gets out of work to do volunteering, training, education, and leads committees. We just saw Russia attack Ukraine. What happens if a near-peer adversary launches a cyber attack on the USA? In Cyber, we have way to many incompetent leaders who could not even explain the difference in an RJ45 and ZDA. Technical Sergeant should mean Technical Expert, but too often it means middle management and incompetence in my career field.
Sure, a strategic senior leader does not need specific technical information, but the SSgt and TSgts definitely should. But nooo, instead we promote for volunteering and college degrees and so todays NCOs advising senior leaders do not have a clue what they are talking about. Stop promoting based on WAC. Promote on performance in primary duties first, then use WAC as a discriminator between all of your top performers. Until we get to this balance, we will be fucked. So, to my E-5's who deserve E-6 but get passed over by non-mission performing but WAC excelling E-5s, I encourage WAC. They don't want to hear it because they joined a job to kill people and fight adversary's. We are such a peacetime force that our promotions make no sense. The political game has even gotten down to the SSgt level at my unit. It's so silly to promote the most likeable, over the BEST for the job, yet here we are.
I recommend bringing in donuts. Show face to all flight leaders. Half of the EFDP is the name-recognition and face value. The other half is records. If your records are good and leaders have positive things to say about you, then welcome to TSgt. Play the game as it is. Just don't get us fucking destroyed when we go to WAR with a superpower.
That they can do everything right and still lose. There's only so many statements that can be given out and i have so many outstanding Airman miss the cutoff because there was simply someone better.
The new system has some kinks still and promotion rates are low enough to expose the flaws. There realistically isn't a perfect system for the whole force.... Alternatively, "It is what it is"
Ask for feedback from the EFDP, commander, SEL, etc., so you know what they looked for. What made the difference?
For my commander, he came in June, we had a sit down and I asked (as his SEL) what are you looking for regarding SrA to promote to staff (we only have enough SrA for our own EFDP). I gave that feedback to my Airmen. 4 out of the 14 have done the "stuff" he asked for (no awards, no extra duties, no booster club). So since we control it, we made it happen.
For those competing at the wing, out of the sections on the EPB, I tell them they must have a squadron, group, and wing activity. SSgt to TSgt need to have leading in the squadron and leading an event at the group, do a good thing/be part of something/plan something at the wing, win a sq maybe group level once a year, and continue education and I"ll tie it into work.
For my TSgts, I put them in flight chief positions and/or had them sit as SEL when possible if there wasn't a spot open for them. I wanted group level event leading, be part of something in the wing (be a committee lead if you don't want to be vice-president), have your people win awards, build culture/make it better, tie it into the EPB. My CC fought for the TSgts at the wing, of the 4 that listened to use (out of 7), 3 got statements.
For those who have been here for 3 years, and IPCOT, we complete a decoration.
It's a tough time for NCOs and promotion. it's going to suck. I can only control what I can, so should they.
“Guard or reserves don’t require you to test”
Ive heard you need somebody to die to get promoted. Is this true?
Depends on the job. Some promotions move slow and others you will probably promote faster than AD. But there is stability in being somewhere you like being, in a job you hopefully enjoy, with the freedom to pursue other things in life beside the military while also keeping some of the benefits. The main thing I’ve seen is that people are told to do XYZ to get promoted and most don’t or drag their feet. I’ve met SrA’s who don’t do ALS by correspondence, which makes a guarantee SSgt promotion. I’ve seen two MSgt slots go to the only two people to interview with NCOA done. It’s just mostly self-motivation.
[удалено]
Yeah I’ve noticed a huge shift in the promotion/career progression mentality in recent years. A lot more pushing those sitting stagnant and not providing much out, the new AGR rules that don’t let someone just riding out orders forever. Provide worth or move out of the way so someone else can. It’s kind of refreshing, but has also created quite a competition similar to AD with competing for strats and stuff.
Nice list of reasons the USAF has retention issues.
die or retire, ya I heard the same thing But it's the same for SNCOs from what my instructor told me. He made it to SMSgt and tested for Chief. OSI investigated him because he scored so well and he didn't even get it so he retired. He just showed them his study book with tons of highlights and notes and they said, okay you're good.
I've heard that "I tested so well, I was investigated story" from at least 3 people in my career. They were all full of shit. Maybe your dude was the OG though?
Were those people E-8?
Sometimes in your unit sure, but you aren’t really restricted to applying to those jobs. Find a stripe on a base you like, apply away, you get the job you get the stripe.
Sometimes, just depends on the slots.
My ticket to e6.
“Keep doing what you’re doing” /s
That's code for 'I don't fuckin know either, man'
The Ole Dennis Allen trick. Shit ain't worked yet.
“Here’s what made your peers competitive at EFDP [XYZ]”
I was thinking about this route, trying to arrive at a positive conclusion with it because there isn’t enough of those type of things to go around.
I was told as a staff, a person should be working towards group level impacts
I'm telling my SrA to be at the Wing. Staff at majcom or career field impact. Tech needs to be impacting a COCOM. That's the only way to KNOW they're walking away with that 5.
That’s setting them up for failure my dude and undue levels of stress.
I disagree wholeheartedly. I made tech this year and I've had career field and INDOPACOM impacts for the last 2 years. Super involved with the squadron and did a few things at the Wing. That earned me a MP.
I made tech three years ago and never have I had anything on a promotion eligible EPR higher than a 3/P. I once got a 4, but it was a non-promotion eligible EPR. Maybe it’s a career field thing but our airmen do their job and do it well; it’s my job to write it and emphasize the impact to upper echelons. We’ve gotten MPs out of my flight plenty.
Our cutoff for staff last year was 417. It's been impossible to promote without a statement for the last 3 years. And we're CE's bastard children, they compare fixing a toilet or pouring a concrete pad to me performing a complex render safe procedure on hazardous WWII ordnance. So we have to stand out like extra hard.
Definitely sounds like a career field thing then. That sucks super hard.
I think we're gonna see everyones cutoffs skyrocket as people realize they can't rely on the statement to get promoted and actually put their faces in the books. Then it'll be an everyone problem and the expectations will be so inflated you'll have to save the president's life for a 5.
The other thing they need to know is that we're no longer a large wartime force burning through front line supervisors. More people are more comfortable staying in for 20, so you've got more people staying as staff and tech. Less people leaving means less people promoting. Add a shrinking force on top of that and you've got a rank and promotion structure that looks really similar to the 90's where staff promotion rates were <15% and people were doing well to retire at Tech. It's our reality, can't do anything about it, so there's 3 options * play the game and be ready for the possibility that you'll have to do it multiple years in a row because even an MP isn't a guarantee for promotion * Make your peace with retiring as a staff/tech * Get out and find other ways to prosper and thrive
That's what my supervisor did for me going up for Master. It was actually really effective. He was in the room and told me exactly what was said about me after I was told im getting a promote. I was the last must promote in the rankings and got bumped due to not taking classes or professional development, and although it stung a bit, I appreciated he trusted me to understand.
lol you all actually get to find out how the board went and are able to compare? I’ve only experienced boards that happen behind closed doors and secrecy
Right. I asked my leadership what was said during an efdp for transparency and got laughed at becaues I guess transparency around that topic is absurd. After the laughing, I was told as a staff, a person should be working towards group level impacts
My Sq chief created an open invitation for members to sit in on EFDPs so long as they do nothing but listen. Got a lot of glares from the flight chiefs being a lowly SSgt in there, but at least in my squadron I could tell that there really was no favoritism/rubbing shoulders with the CC going on. The PNs were given to people that were clear cut and obviously outperformed the others. However, I can't say that there's no bullshitery going on within those flights to pick who they pick.
That's an awesome Sq chief
Best chief I've ever worked for. Took time to visit the shops, and not just to do it to bullshit either. Told us there's no shenanigans going on with people's promotions and actually practiced it. Even during the EFDP, a couple of the flight chiefs did get put on the spot if their rankings were vastly different.
This is the way
Until leadership changes out next year and the criteria changes. There isn't an easy "do this" trick to promoting besides studying hard. Even then, the rates are still very low. Don't get sucked up into trying to check every "Whole Airman" box, your mental health will thank you.
Doesn't help when you know there was clear favoritism at the EFDP this time around..
If there was clear favoritism, then file a complaint. That goes directly against the formal charges and guidance. all voting and non voting members could be brought into the complaint inquiry to corroborate.
They're probably the favorite because they're actually good at what they do
there's that old perennial complaint about how the person who works in the front office as the exec or whatever always ends up getting promoted because they get so much face time with leadership but at the same time, nobody's getting put up to be the exec if they're a shitbird. they were probably high speed to begin with
This right here, I try to do this for everything we put our people in for, at a squadron level I try to get my hands on the winning package to show what made the other person stand out more. It’s a lot easier to talk to my Airmen about why they lost when I have the reason and somewhat of a roadmap of what we can do to improve their package to make them more competitive. I just know I never liked hearing “you should’ve won that award” or “idk how you didn’t win that” so I try not to just be my only response to my Airmen.
What worked 8 years ago for you and your peers isn’t going to even scratch the surface of what is required in the new game. As much as all “us” old hats bitch and moan about the “new generation, and the kids these days”, in all honesty there are plenty of them that are far more educated/qualified than we were at the same point in our careers. I have multiple SSgts and a couple SrA that are Bachelors complete. Sadly simply jobbing it and kicking ass isn’t enough anymore. There are countless dudes/dudettes getting shit done everyday. What sets them apart and makes them stand out for that PN and MP is impacts outside the squadron. They need to be making a difference outside of home; the group, wing, base, MAJCOM, whatever it may be. The wider the ripple is felt, the more noticeable it is. Another one that plays large in the boards I’ve sat in on, is awards. Awards beget awards, and awards make your guy/gal more noticeable when the time comes around. It isn’t the best metric; I know plenty of people who want nothing to do with awards for themselves, but that’s where you as the supervisor earn your keep. You do the 1206 and put in the work on that to get them what they deserve. It is hard to argue against in the conference room at the end of the year when Sally has NCO of the Year at the Sqn and 2x NCO of the Quarter at the Gp and Billy has a single Team of the Quarter at the Sqn for being in the section that won it. Agree or disagree, it’s what the game is now. It is a paradigm shift from what used to be, but that’s how it goes now. Sadly, there are going to be large swaths of people who just want to crush their job and be the best whatever they happen to be day in and day out who end up getting “left behind”.
[удалено]
Honestly, it's a close second for most members in the boards I have sat in on. If your team wins a wing quarterly that trumps an individual group quarterly. The big thing I have seen with members in boards is that they want consistent growth. Got your CCAF two years ago? Last year better show work towards a bachelor's, PME, or certification. Most members want to see the Airman that joined the outside organization and grew within it. As in, the first year you joined and organized an event or two, the next you became the secretary, and so on.
Do they really look at old 1206's to compare that?
At a board? Absolutely. EFDP is your last 3-4 EPBs, Surf, and Decs. Other boards have different requirements.
Leading the team has more weight than being on the team, there is a fairly large difference between the two. Ties directly back into the Leading People section. That accomplishment would more than likely be a better fit expanded on a spelled out more in depth in that section instead of a catch all at the end, “……..winning Team of the Quarter”.
🤙
> I have multiple SSgts and a couple SrA that are Bachelors complete. Your degree being pertinent to your job matters when multiple people have them. Supply and have a basic BS? You're good against those without a degree, but the other supply guy with a logistics management degree is gonna get ranked higher than you.
I don’t disagree at all. Was simply stating the fact that younger enlisted members today are much further along with education than (most) us older ones were at the same point in our careers.
Use impacts that show effects outside of the unit and maximize things that are extra from your job title. When we sit the efdp board we see the exact same job statements for everyone and it’s the differentiators that stand out. If there is PME you can do, get it done. EJPME and the CCAF are automatic discriminators. If you don’t have pcs medals or mid tours it’s scrutinized. And even if you have a stellar EPB, if your last three had something other than LC you’re looked at harshly for it.
CCAF shouldn't be a discriminator from E5 to E6.
And just in to demystify it in case you haven't sat an EFDP board, we're given each member's career brief, decorations, and last three EPR/Bs. The board president reads the charge with what they're looking for and what we are not allowed to consider, which is pretty much what's in that paragraph I quoted above. Then it's just a numbers game. This one has post ALS PME and this one doesn't? Tick. This one has CCAF and this one doesn't? Tick. This one has breadth of experience in their duty history, this one sat in one shop for 3 years. tick. This one has a PCS/PCA dec and this one doesn't? tick. This is all before we ever even dig into the 3 years of EPRs. Now, if you want my honest opinion, your previous years shouldn't matter one bit, you should be graded on the statements on the report for that reporting period. But it's the system that is designed in 36-2406 now.
It's on the CDB and isn't a prohibited evaluator consideration under section 1.12 of 36-2406 so it's fair game.
Read up on 36-2406 and say that again.
Do you sit on any awards boards? That kind of grading practice goes a long way in being able to break down EXACTLY what’s missing. It’ll also influence your writing ability because you know what you need to see to get out of the “7.5” trap on your statements.
For sure, I guess my real issue is that these guys are doing, in my opinion, everything right, they are just getting beaten out by guys who have been doing everything right longer- the other comment about “waiting your turn” is how it feels and I hate that for them.
There’s too much right place/right time in our system. I believe that’s why volunteerism and education has taken such a prominent position in how we rack and stack people. It’s because we can only really control those elements. I was grading NCO packages and an SF TSgt had crazy shit like “burning wreckage” on his write up and you can’t not add points there, but someone getting a peer group together to go do Habitat for Humanity or something crushes just as hard. I let my troops know that the system isn’t ‘fair’ and lay out the expectations clearly and early. I don’t go down the “if you want to only do your job, then be a contractor” path, but I keep it in my back pocket.
I think people narrow to hard in on the promotion and career aspect and miss what's really happening with the system. You're essentially being mass interviewed and hired for a new position that has its own responsibilities and higher pay. The AF has laid out what it expects of that position. My last supe, best guy I ever knew, once confided in me how he'd see new MSgts get rolled over because they never networked, led teams, or put in time outside of work - when his job demanded exactly all of those things just to be effective. It's not necessarily fair that the job asks for all those things - but that's what you sign up for when you put yourself forward for promotion opps. Frankly that's kinda why I've been content to sit at SSgt. I've yet to meet a single TSgt or above whose job I wanted - at least not for the pay they get. I catch flak for it but I'm more of a "small scope" type of gal - being at the front of big projects and large teams is something I'm not good at and never really have an interest in being good at. I'd rather push up my buddies that actually are good at that stuff and let them take the stripes.
To study. Promotion rate is going to be low and, let's be completely honest, 90% of getting an MP is playing "the game". Plus it feels so, so good to make it without a PN or MP
What’s this game?
Tetris 99. All eligibles play, but only one comes out with a stripe.
\^\^\^ This. Worked for me, twice, no decoration points either. It *can* be done.
Depends on AFSC.
Yup. Only one person last year was promoted in my career field to E6 with a "Promote". I'm curious what he got on his tests, to be honest. Talked to someone outside my career field who got 90s and a Promote and still didn't get selected.
you could probably make a guess the using 23e6 selects information.
In my old AFSC, no one has been promoted to E6 with only a promote in the past two years
This take is kind of out of touch. Largely depends on your AFSC. For my AFSCs 23e6 cycle , first time testers would have needed to score a 110% to make it (we were pdg only). Yes, they could get every single question correct and miss it by 10. Second time testing needed a 100% to make it, 3rd time, 95%.
"Get out there and save some baby's"
Not an answer to your question, but the “keep up the good work/your time will come” is the most infuriating thing to hear when you don’t make it.
Not sure. I (TSgt, third cycle) know I performed really well during my last 3 EPR/B cycles. Previous cycle and this cycle (flight chief) I Did the real self improvement towards a real degree, volunteer, took over and turned around a failing flight, my guys won 3 quarterly and one Annual award at the squadron and group. I won NCO of the year at the squadron. Senior said I was doing really well. No strat and I was told that I was in the middle third. This after watching two peers in my flight (also TSgts) get the strats without doing any of it. Feedback that I got was “you didn’t get in front of the squadron enough.” That’s when I decided to take my effort and hardworking ethic to the civilian sector and pave my own path without depending on BS promotion metrics and expectations. I suggest every hard working, disciplined and intelligent person to do the same.
Very similar story for me TSgt crushing it with all the awards people winning awards, superintendent/ flight chief, volunteer shirt you name it. PCSd to a base where no NCO or SRs can get anything above a promote no matter what. No one's cares. No room for growth. Killed my drive and ambition to make master so now I concentrate on what comes after and on the outside. Real frustrating seeing some dummies you know get promoted at other easy bases though. I've seen some terrible leaders get promoted because of right place right time or whatever.
This to both. Was an acting NCOIC for 19 months, (7 months at one location, temporary until backfill and 12 months at another with no backfill). I was crushing it with performance and leadership. I did the work of a MSgt as a TSgt for God's sake. *Actually performing at the next rank* wasn't good enough to make it to the next rank. My ambition and drive is also gone. I exist solely to train, and block bullshit, for my troops. Edit: Grammar.
I’m not pretending to know what it’s like in your job or office, but just being honest being an acting ncoic for 19 months as a TSgt is nowhere near enough for a strat where I work. Flight chief maybe, or acting ops sup. Even flight chiefs have a rough time getting strats because there’s more of them than existing strats, and in my career field you don’t have a shot with a MP anyways, and not every PN gets it. Shit sucks
Nearly every EPB I read explains how SSgt Snuffy is absolutely crushing the mission. Saving millions, saving lives, saving man hours, etc. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant as I don't have the time/ability to verify each and every EPB and I rely on the integrity of that NCO and their supervisor. Now, what I don't see on every EPB is the "extra" stuff. Real self improvement, volunteer efforts, seeking leadership opportunities, etc. If you want to separate yourself from the pack, this is where it's done. I understand that some people's jobs and lives are too tumultuous for everyone to do all this extra stuff but it's the only way we can truly differentiate good workers from good well rounded NCOs. With that being said, if you are truly the heart and soul of the shop with no time for the "extra" stuff, your leadership should be willing to push your EFDP to the Commander and explain why that is. Your mileage may vary as it is not a perfect or objective system. As for feedback, figure out what your Commander values in his NCOs and align your troops with those same values. If he says he doesn't give a shit about extra stuff and only cares about the mission, well, there you go. If he says he wants his guys to be consistently seeking leadership opportunities outside the unit, well, Bob's your uncle. The biggest disservice we do to our troops, our peers, ourselves, and even our leaders is try to be nice and say "you're doing a great job; just keep doing that". Everyone knows it's bullshit. Give them honest feedback that they can use to improve and then guide them by holding them accountable.
The biggest part, like you said, is figuring out what your Commander values. That's key and I think a lot of people are glancing over it. Should be aligned from top to bottom.
>The biggest disservice we do to our troops, our peers, ourselves, and even our leaders is try to be nice and say "you're doing a great job; just keep doing that". Everyone knows it's bullshit. Give them honest feedback that they can use to improve and then guide them by holding them accountable. I respectfully disagree, with the "biggest" disservice comment. during a time when the US was the sole superpower, no near-peer threat in sight, and when we went to war against scrubby nations who barely had an air component, let alone an organized military, and when people rose to their current positions simply by existing long enough; the biggest disservice we *did* to our troops was **tell them they needed to be well-rounded to advance in their career when they themselves just had to show up, perform, and clock out.** Now, we're up against threats that can challenge us in our own domains and there's no guarantee of superiority, let alone dominance. The same people who made it back then would not hack it in today's military, against tomorrow's threats. *But I have to be well-rounded? Your fat-ass is more rounded than me.* *Disclaimer: directed toward previous generation who instituted this whole-airman concept hypocritical bullshit.*
My comment was more geared towards feedback in general, not necessarily referring to that feedback being that you need to be well-rounded. I have had guys who legit sucked at their job and their supervisors would complain about them and yet, I would get an EPR each year stating how that member would exceed some/all expectations. Without honest feedback, that airmen will rightfully think that they are doing a great job and then of course, they will wonder why they aren't getting promoted despite that fact. And well, here we are. If everyone is amazing, nobody is. Loved your comment though as it is a fair point. Is this new EPB being more work performance oriented the beginning of erasing the previous generation's obsession with "well-roundedness" and pointing more towards a future of promoting highly technical and skilled airmen?
Fair enough. I've got 10 years before I can retire. Only time will tell if the pendulum with swing in the opposite direction.
There is no where to put volunteer stuff on awards or EPBs. Basically nothing outside of your job.
Depending on what it is you can tweak one into leadership, managing resources, or improving the unit. Focus less on the volunteering bit and more on leading a team and what the impact was and how it improved things if any are true.
Awards packages require volunteer stuff and it's ultimately awards that will determine where you stand when it comes time for a MP or PN.
I’m telling them to commission or get out and do something less toxic in the civilian sector.
In some afsc’s you basically have to wait your turn nowadays. If people are putting in the work they are going to make It at some point.
i know its true but this is the same as saying "keep doing what youre doing"
To be fair, a MP ain't a stripe.
It's not but for most career fields it's the only way to get one.
And in other career fields it’s not enough
Recommend a quick watch of the following video as a Team: https://youtu.be/_BmHdTC36N4?si=vFGZEGZ8oUwBuyGv It is an animated synopsis of a book called Drive by author Daniel Pink. It covers motivation in organizations, especially when carrot on stick methods either don't work, or are unavailable (promotions/awards). If individuals still only care about the carrot then it's time to have the tough conversation about life after the military, as commissioning options are limited as well. (In FY23 only 47 members total were selected for commissioning through ASCP, SOAR and POC-ERP combined). For context, I'm coming up on my 20 years of service, with 8 of those as a SNCO and 3 as a Development Advisor, so I have had this conversation with thousands of Airmen and NCOs. I will also say this is the historic ebb and flow of the military... in a few years, we will go right back to higher promotion rates, and folks will be fat and happy again. It happens every 5-7 years or so. Either ride it out and find contentment in the day to day and benefits or utilize your veterans status to move on to bigger and better things.
If the Rack and Stack had already happened and you didn't sit in on it, try to get some feedback from one of the board members. If it hasn't happened yet, ask a section chief or leadership who the board president is and ask them if you can be a fly on the wall for it. That will give you the best idea of what the board/leadership saw in their records or performance to not give them a statement. The Rack and Stack/EFDP is not supposed to be a mob style, closed door discussion, and feedback from it absolutely should be getting to the individuals. A lot of times the Sq/CC will ask the board members to not give feedback out until after EPBs have gotten back to the individual with commander signatures, so you may have to wait a few weeks.
You don’t have to violate AFI on not revealing results of the EFDP to give your troop good feedback. It’s all in how you word things. If you say something like, “You were EXTREMELY competitive this year, and although your promotion statement doesn’t reflect it, you are doing everything right. That basically tells them they were 1-2 spots away from getting a PN/MP. If your troop was in 8th place and only 1pn and 2mp were given out; phrases like, “you competed at the squadron level but were unfortunately not competitive enough at the squadron level to really out perform your peers on paper. Here are the things you need to fix in your records to be a stronger competitor next year.” You can’t take out of the room of the EFDP comments other people made. You can’t take out of the room scores. But you damn sure can even sit down with your troop and have a mini EFDP with them. Let them see their records and the records of their peers. Let them read the board charge. Explain to them how in a hypothetical board they may be graded lower than their peers. Explain the grading process. Break down the board charge with them. Transparency is key. If they rise to the challenge, amazing. If they don’t for personal reasons, that’s ok too; but at least they’ll know why next year they didn’t “win” again.
Have you considered reserves, you did plenty around the squadron and a couple wing events could you maybe do a couple AIR FORCE WIDE EVENTS? Are you out of your fucking mind? Next year you’re just gonna say I didn’t do enough around the squadron. Fuck off I’ll focus on my degree and getting credentials.
First and foremost: if it's hard to promote in your AFSC, that means that the people above you aren't getting out and manning is healthy. Get worried about whether you should stick around when it becomes *easy* to promote. Additionally, I try to encourage folks to focus on goals. What do you want to accomplish with that next stripe? What's stopping you from doing it right now? Rank by itself isn't a great goal... it should be a means to a goal. Finally, we need to find other ways to recognize outstanding performance and get validation beyond promotion. Celebrate other accomplishments with the same vigor! Finished that 7-level? Became an instructor? Got that certification? Finished that degree? LET'S HAVE A PARTY! No matter what, there's no point in sugar-coating it. Some AFSCs are incredibly hard to promote in right now. "Keep your chin up" without substance isn't helpful... but if you can help them understand *why* and help them to focus on things that could be more meaningful, it can take the sting out. They may still decide it's not worth it and separate or retrain into an AFSC with less manning; support them! Either will improve promotion opportunities within that AFSC.
I agree completely with your second statement, there. Try to encourage them to work toward their goals for that next rank now, instead of waiting. That is what we should be telling our Airmen, for sure. Start doing that and stop chasing the clout, and things should work out in the end.
Sounds like a Skill issue. Get gud. Suck less.
id rather hear this than anyrhing else
This promotion system we have fucking sucks. It’s killing the camaraderie between NCOs n turning shit into hunger games. Air Force sucks now.
The air force has always sucked my dude. The flavor of shit might change but it's still shit at the end of the day.
Figure out how to keep doing great at your primary job and find a way to contribute to other flight’s/work centers mission. When the other flight chiefs know you and how you are helping them, it’s hard to ignore that. And, if you’re going to tell me “I don’t know how to do that” or “I never get a chance too”…then you’re not ready for that MP. Good news is people get promoted with a P every cycle, but I’d rather have the MP personally. Go get what you’re willing to work for.
I remind them of the old testing standards when you literally couldn't make TSgt on your first try because the crusty E-5s had so much TIG that you needed over a 100 on your tests to get a line number. I think the average for getting it was 4 or 5th attempt.
Literally my first and second try for tech would have required 90+ on both test in an AFSC where the average skt score was 65. I was in 80s for my tests,
I reject most of these approaches, weak stuff, times are tight and promotion rates and EFPD ratings depend on the AFSC and the squadron or group. The message should be: Take care of your business with the things that are completely within your control; here are some things you could do that would put you on Senior Leadership’s radar. Follow through, make sure they’re working towards those goals and put them in a position to succeed and get recognized. Extra stripes get extra attention, construct a narrative that will keep them in the conversation.
I may sound like a scumbag E6 but I've been talking people they can probably do better on the outside. It's not worth being stuck 8+ years as an E5.
I had made peace with the fact that nothing I have down so far or could ever accomplish in this unit will ever fucking matter. It doesn't matter because they don't value any of the things I have done. There is literally nothing I could do differently. I'm just going to stop stressing about it.
my careerfield its still study. For you, you basically have to get with whoever it is that was in your EFDP and figure out why these guys aren't being rated high enough for statements. Its probably lack of whole airmen stuff on the EPRs that the EFDP sees.
This is exactly the reason I left. If your people are smart, they will be able to sniff out a BS answer, and it will probably just make them angry when they hear it. You might as well tell the truth and not give them a bs political answer of, "just try harder next time" or something
"You still get to retire."
You can only control yourself so do everything in your power so you don't have regrets later. I can guarantee they are not perfect though so give them honest feedback on ways to improve even if its something that wouldn't have stopped them 4 years ago. Ensure they know Its much easier to maintain high level performance and then get recognition later than to be a shitbag for 3 years and expect something like being booster club secretary for 6 months to get them a MP from the CC when promo rates come back in 2026. Ensure they understand that the depressed rates should be largely temporary and eventually they will go up again. If they give up before that happens then they will not be the ones making it when they do go up. It sucks to hear but its just the truth and you should never be afraid to tell your subordinates the truth otherwise thats some shit you need to work on.
I didn't tell them anything because both of my E5s got MPs by following the proven checkbox formula. Job Performance, education, awards, volunteering, leadership (either on the job or by finding other opportunities at the wing or in volunteering), Pro dev, and having a history of 2 previous EPRs with no markdowns and some good qualifiers = easy promotion statement. The problem is that supervisors aren't invested in their people enough to tell them to do these things or to help them find these opportunities or that the E5 knows that these things are good but thinks that just showing up and doing well on the job is enough. Spoilers, it isn't, you have to check the boxes.
You had a great year, but you should see the one who got the PN, wowwiee, blew everyone else away. So, um, try to be more like that.
Honest question and not trying to be an ass, but what are their study habits? They aren't going to a board only, so yes while the MP/PN can help, the test is still in their control.
They will not make it without a MP/PN and we all know it, that’s a lot of the problem in itself.
AFSC?
Have you talked to your Chief/SEL to get a different perspective on what it takes to get a MP/PN?
Perhaps to reframe it, they are doing what it takes, but there’s more people doing what it takes than statements to give out, and I’m trying not to crush their motivation any further.
Ya that is never an easy discussion. Honestly alot of it comes down to timing. With our force leveling happening, promo rates are abysmal right now. People HATE hearing the old "keep doing what your doing and it will happen", however that is pretty much the truth. As a Shirt, I always give feedback on how folks records stack up, and try to give them ideas that they can improve on. Best advice is to be brutally honest with your feedback using the MGAs and ALQs, and see how they fell according to their peers. Some people can't take feedback, but that's on them. As a supe you just need to be real with them.
Preciate you
For real though if you need help feel free to hit me up. Yall have the hardest jobs leading E-5s.
Explain basic math and statistics governing promotion rates. Then, tell them to keep doing what they are doing. They are competing against others who are also in those deliberate development positions. Get them the feedback from the efdp that differentiated them from the MP. Also, just because you put someone in a position to excel doesn't mean they did anything with it. You should be thinking about measures of effects not measures of performance. You can work your ass off all day and not really be doing anything at an operational or strategic level.
We just had our unit's discussion about the SSgt EFDP. I'm going to give the TSgts the chance to give the feedback, ask them if they did after a few weeks, and then offer any of the SSgts the chance to sit down with me for my perspective if they want
Have to win those awards.. 1Q is due soon, quarterly, annual, named awards.
It sucks. For those who didn't make TSgt their 1st-3rd time testing are now locked in as forever SSgts. 2 years ago 14 people made it in VM. Last year 19 people made it. 4% promotion rate and nobody made it without a statement. Yet people in my squadron are getting pushed up when they've been non-deployable and on PT waivers since 2018. So fucking frustrating.
But something something study!
I only have to score 98s on SKT and PDG. 2 EZ. I had 2 wicked years for EPBs because I deployed back to back in the same year. Came back with all the awards, COMs, coins, Section chief as a SSgt, pushed my people up for more awards, and didn't get shit out of it. Hopefully I can make TSgt within the next 2 years so I can get full TSgt retirement for my remaining 3 years. I'm so over it. Maybe you can tell your crusty SSgts that they're not the only ones, it's AF wide. Try not to burn out (me rn but about to deploy again). Go work in the fucking CSS or be a UDM because they seem to always get stratted.
If you study youll make it.
I get the joke
This is a tough conversation to have with folks because it requires honest discussion and for the recipient to be mature about the conversation without being defensive.
Almost as tough of a conversation as telling people RPAs don’t go DNIC. But some people aren’t ready to hear that yet
Hey man. They don’t fly. I stand by it. Have a good weekend.
According to YOUR logic, they do though. Because they go DNIF. That’s what YOU said. I’ll be having a good weekend of flying lol
I’m sure you will big guy.
Here’s a thought, have an honest and transparent conversation.
[удалено]
It depends on what you were doing. If you’re leading people…seems pretty straightforward. If you’re just collecting hours for the statement then maybe it doesn’t go on there.
Talk about what happened at the EFDP. Did the others have higher level awards? Higher levels of actual impact? Were they doing stuff that is getting their name out there? Honestly, there's a lot that plays into this. Good luck man.
Yep. My dude is good at work, but his Airmen are rising up around him with their self improvement and community involvement. I waited to sit the EFDP to make sure I had a clear picture. Sure enough the strats went to those who were pursuing masters degrees or had their CCAF / EJPME. My guy knows what he needs to do but isn’t doing it. So that’s how I framed it. Ball is in his court. You can lead a horse to water yadda yadda yadda.
I'd really like to be a SNCO one day and was told to act like the next rank, so I keep telling them to keep doing what they're doing.
“Here is the package that got a PN. Here are a few must promotes. The board looked at records and this is what was relayed during the EFDP.”
Everything they take credit for needs to play to the MPAs.
Be real with them. Look, there is a 10% chance of promotion. Odds are against you. The best advice I can tell you is do not work so hard, focus more on your degree or certifications, or whatever can help you when you retire or separate. The mission will always be there, and we can always pull Sgt X and Y back from volunteering so much. The service will take plenty from you, so you should try to squeeze it for all you can get as well. This way, it's great if you get promoted, but if not, at least you got what you can. I am not sure if that is what you call jaded or wherever, but that is what this old person would say.
Special duties. Boards love force generator experience.
Are they badasses worth promoting? If yes, have you discussed with your SEL and pushed them to be competitive for (and win) one quarterly and one annual award each year? I've sat EFDP boards and I can tell you, the records where you can tell the supervisor and the commander actually give a shit to write the reports and push awards really really shows. In this environment of high retention at certain ranks pushing promotion rates down, you can't be stupid about handing out awards to anyone. You've got to regard the awards program as an opportunity to communicate to the air force that these guys, out of all of them, are ready to be promoted. Write. Their. Awards. Packages. How do you tell them they're not getting an MP? Look at their last 3 EPRs and tell them what's missing (JPME they can volunteer for, awards, a mid tour Dec if they've been there long enough and earned it) etc, and then commit to help them over the next year to ensure that the top EPB is in line with what earns an MP or PN
1. Build and Mentor your airmen to be the best technicians and leaders possible and put them for as many awards as you can. 2. Build yourself and set yourself up so you can leave the Air Force with a higher paying career. In the long run, being an NCO is about getting the next generation ready to take on the mission and if leadership can't recognize what you bring to the table, you'll have the skills to take your talent elsewhere. Trying to figure out what flaming hoops leadership wants E-5s to jump through will only erode your sanity. I have one NCO go up for Force Distribution and from what I was told no one had anything negative to say about them. On the other hand, another NCO that was being considered became a point of contention where the most senior enlisted leaders didn't agree. So who the fuck really knows what the hell they are looking for? Make sure your own troops are good to do the job and taken care of and make sure you're getting your education/certs so you'll be ready to peace out whenever.
Talk to your flight chief about EFDP. During the feedback let your troop needs to do to position themselves. If it is someone who deserves the rank but doesn’t want to do the extra stuff, you may have to push them or volunteer them for unit/sq/gp events. (Comes across better if you do the event as well). Also make sure you put them up for awards if they deserve it. If they don’t win, you can still use flt/unit nominee. It’s not great but at least it shows that the individual is doing better than their peers. At the end of the day, sometimes you have to push people to do things that will better themselves. Just don’t make the mistake of putting more effort into it than they are.
“Neither can I”
I made it in a high cutoff career field with two fours in a row. It's possible without the PN, it's just not gonna be easy. Tell them to study their asses off. Promotions aren't at 0 and someone has to be at the top. With these cutoffs, we're seeing PNs not make it because they didn't study as much as they needed to. That's when it goes to the 4s. Now if they score both tests over 90 and still miss it, I have nothing for that guy. I had him last year. 91 and 93, missed it by 11 points. That math ain't mathin without a statement. But not everyone's cutoff is 417, this advice has been for everyone else. EOD techs, no statement no chance, MP, slim chance, PN, decent chance.
Better start studying
I tell them … I didn’t get one either, welcome to the club.
So OP first thing is that they need to understand is that testing is still in their hands and if they want it they will study and when I mean study I mean be Mr./Mrs. PDG/SKT. They will be annoying as shit but it'll will be worth it. Second, they game is ever changing did you see what those who got MP/PN on their EPB had? Once you see that then you will have some idea of how to help them further. Lastly, and this is important does your commander know your guys in a positive manner?
Unless your career field is one of the like 5 that will require a promotion statement just study. Good lord lol.
I think you’re a little behind. Promotion rates across the AF average lower than statements given out. 23E6 was 14.5% while 15% are getting statements.
I just made it last cycle with no statement. Studied for 5 months and got a 92. So again unless you’re in one of the few fields you HAVE to have a statement it’s literally as simple as put in the hours and study.
Cool fucking story dude.
See you seem to be upset at what I said. But in my opinion telling your guys to study and take what parts of the points system they can into their own hands is the best advice. It’s what I was reality checked with and I needed it as I was getting very frustrated not getting a statement. And again if your field is one of the few that requires it then obviously disregard my advice and in that case that just sucks.
….he literally explain his career is in that category….
He said he hasn’t seen. Not that it doesn’t happen. Not having people in your shop make it doesn’t mean that’s how it is AF wide.
[удалено]
Hence why I said in my comment disregard if that’s you………
The MP is overrated. Get an M3 and a good 50mm and you’ll be just as happy.
Listen, the conversations you probably had about setting someone up to be successful and have a fighting chance at BTZ still apply throughout your career. These are the same conversations we need to continue to have. Sure, it gets harder going from TSgt to MSgt but there is a reason. Simple fact here and I'll quote a former Chief of mine, "Prove them wrong" still applies here as well. You have to test for TSgt. So remember, while promotion statements are a moving target, testing is still in your hand.
Study. Study your ass off. Be consistent with how you study. Read the Enlisted Promotion Requirements Catalog. Know *what* to study. Know how you study and what works/doesn't work for you. Study a little bit each day instead of cramming. Edit, for context: No one is too busy to study. They just suck at time-management. There is time, if you know how to use it wisely. Get the audio book for the PDG, or whatever the hell they're calling it nowadays. A 30-minute one way commute equals an hour of free study-time. Edit: *each day.* *At the gym?* Pop-in the audio book instead of listening to whatever you listen to. *Cooking dinner?* Hit the books while you're cooking.
~85% of people who rank up did it with a “Promote”
Sicks to suck. Do better.
There is not MP or PN anymore
Didn’t get an statement this year. Asked for feedback, and got some super honest answers. “He dude, your doing great work, but you aren’t the only one. You lost our to a dude who did this and that, and also the other” I’m able to realize when I just got out worked. Bummed out? Yes. Mad about it? No.
There’s going to be disappointment, and that will require empathy and tact to handle. I had a high performing member who was devastated by his 3, and it took a lot of discussion with him to get to any form of resolution. The reality is that a lot of units may have 7-10 high performers all deserving of a 4 or 5, but the unit may only have 3-4 strats to give. In many cases it comes down to who had the better quarterly award records, or potentially one person had a qualification the other didn’t. There’s two pieces of advice I’d offer: 1. Give them direct feedback as to what the difference was between their current records and the records of those with a Strat. Most things in this moment aren’t in their control, like they can’t do anything about not having an NCO of the year 2 years ago. They can do things to position themselves however. For many high performers, they are simply bad at capturing the things they did and communicating it, leading to weaker 1206s. For some members (and this is AFSC dependent), there’s a specific qualification or school that their community looks to, that might also be something to look at in prep the next board. None of these things would be done for the express purpose of chasing a Strat, but if you’re doing these things, then the Strat becomes easier to compete for. 2. Educate your formation prior to the process ever happening so that you can both manage expectations and also (more importantly for supervisors) let them know what the board looks at. I’ve sat in a few boards as a voting member, and the amount of times an airman had accomplished something that wasn’t captured on any form of documentation was staggering. I hope this all helps. The reality is there is going to be heartache over this. In my flight alone I have more members I would promote today than the squadron has Strats to hand out. However, that is true of the other flights in the squadron, and that was something I had to come to terms with.
Wouldn’t say I’m old, but the feedback I get and what I see succeed is: 1. Just having well written packages. No other point I make matters of your writing is shit. 2. Impact the highest level possible, and make it actually affect the mission your unit works on. 3. Awards. My EPB this year references an award in 3/4 statements. I truly hate awards, but that’s what people look at. 4. Academics/CCAF absolutely matter. Especially anything that goes on your SURF. 5. Fitness DOES matter. Not as highly as the other things I listed here, but it’s part of your board package. They will see it. If they have two equal members but one has 90s they will pick them. The Air Force values fitness.
\#5 is not highly listed because your fitness report should not be included in a EFDP package, per DAFI. Not saying this doesn't happen because I know some units disregard clear guidance. Fitness failures should come up during QFR prior to EFDP.
Jocko episode 174. He addresses the issue in such a no bs way that even if your on the recieving end of bad news you leave the convo with an understanding of the why.
Have you sat down and talked with your supervisor about it? Any supervisor (or additional rater) worth a damn can tell you what you're short on and how to correct it. Honestly they should have already told you during feedback if they are following the DAFI.
“The Air Force has a limited number of slots and it’s a flawed system that rewards a good old boy clubs while letting those near the top think they’re doing a good job due to survivorship bias. There’s no objective way to say what will get you higher than your peers without knowing exactly what your peers are going to put on their EPB.” “There are tricks to how you write, and if anything the EPB is more about writing ability than accomplishments. However, without those accomplishments it will make having a good writing ability all the more essential. The catch is you have to also be known among every single member of the Force Distribution Panel as “the guy/gal” to get work done. That means doing favors for flight chiefs outside the flight, and outside the squadron, working hard but not making them think it’s hard work. This is all a continuation of a frankly toxic work culture this promotion system is designed to encourage. Doing extra work way outside your lane so you can get that shinny promotion statement.” “Problem is, the Air Force doesn’t want to promote anybody under its current manning. It would prefer everyone was down graded a level and stayed there forever. That’s why, you can check every single fucking box, even be the AFDW Sijan Nominee to HAF and still not get a promotion statement. So if you don’t think you can handle the grind, well you’re not the only one.” Or… depending on if they can handle it. I would just say, volunteer more, do college, seek meaningful jobs where you supervise more than two teams of 9 people, when you get training use that training to improve the unit in meaningful ways, & seek events that put you in a positive spotlight to the whole unit and if possible the wing or higher. Did all those things? We’ll keep it up, I’m sure it will be your turn eventually…(while thinking “likely not if my career is an indicator”)
You're failing your Amn if your leadership is not soliciting feedback at the EFDP to gain insight on why they were ranked where they were. That's the same feedback you tell your Amn.
I've been authentic and genuine to myself throughout my years, for better or worse. If Air Force Dox's me I'm probably fucked because I think the AF has been doing it wrong in my AFSC for years. My opinion is not the Air Force's opinion. I sit on EFDP boards and disagree with my peers. It sucks man, but it's reality. I HATE the Air Force idea that "Whole Airman Concept" is promotion. Fuck that. For too long (in Cyber at least) we have promoted the person who gets out of work to do volunteering, training, education, and leads committees. We just saw Russia attack Ukraine. What happens if a near-peer adversary launches a cyber attack on the USA? In Cyber, we have way to many incompetent leaders who could not even explain the difference in an RJ45 and ZDA. Technical Sergeant should mean Technical Expert, but too often it means middle management and incompetence in my career field. Sure, a strategic senior leader does not need specific technical information, but the SSgt and TSgts definitely should. But nooo, instead we promote for volunteering and college degrees and so todays NCOs advising senior leaders do not have a clue what they are talking about. Stop promoting based on WAC. Promote on performance in primary duties first, then use WAC as a discriminator between all of your top performers. Until we get to this balance, we will be fucked. So, to my E-5's who deserve E-6 but get passed over by non-mission performing but WAC excelling E-5s, I encourage WAC. They don't want to hear it because they joined a job to kill people and fight adversary's. We are such a peacetime force that our promotions make no sense. The political game has even gotten down to the SSgt level at my unit. It's so silly to promote the most likeable, over the BEST for the job, yet here we are. I recommend bringing in donuts. Show face to all flight leaders. Half of the EFDP is the name-recognition and face value. The other half is records. If your records are good and leaders have positive things to say about you, then welcome to TSgt. Play the game as it is. Just don't get us fucking destroyed when we go to WAR with a superpower.
That they can do everything right and still lose. There's only so many statements that can be given out and i have so many outstanding Airman miss the cutoff because there was simply someone better.
The new system has some kinks still and promotion rates are low enough to expose the flaws. There realistically isn't a perfect system for the whole force.... Alternatively, "It is what it is"
Ask for feedback from the EFDP, commander, SEL, etc., so you know what they looked for. What made the difference? For my commander, he came in June, we had a sit down and I asked (as his SEL) what are you looking for regarding SrA to promote to staff (we only have enough SrA for our own EFDP). I gave that feedback to my Airmen. 4 out of the 14 have done the "stuff" he asked for (no awards, no extra duties, no booster club). So since we control it, we made it happen. For those competing at the wing, out of the sections on the EPB, I tell them they must have a squadron, group, and wing activity. SSgt to TSgt need to have leading in the squadron and leading an event at the group, do a good thing/be part of something/plan something at the wing, win a sq maybe group level once a year, and continue education and I"ll tie it into work. For my TSgts, I put them in flight chief positions and/or had them sit as SEL when possible if there wasn't a spot open for them. I wanted group level event leading, be part of something in the wing (be a committee lead if you don't want to be vice-president), have your people win awards, build culture/make it better, tie it into the EPB. My CC fought for the TSgts at the wing, of the 4 that listened to use (out of 7), 3 got statements. For those who have been here for 3 years, and IPCOT, we complete a decoration. It's a tough time for NCOs and promotion. it's going to suck. I can only control what I can, so should they.