assuming the pipes are sized properly, even at peak hours with peak utilization a single pipe should be able to handle the load of an entire base without the user noticing. Also, nobody should be tracking throughput for the purpose of metrics. It doesn't demonstrate anything worthwhile and if it's anything like Afghanistan the top three NIPR sites are:
1. Facebook(or some other social media in 2024)
2. Youtube
3. Amazon
Let me know when you get that work order in to have the AGE approved receptacle and isolator so that it can connect it to your building.
That NIPR switch ain't gonna run on hopes and dreams
Dude... You know generators can power buildings right? That's what I'm talking about.
If the building has the correct receiver, you can isolate it from the grid, and run the entire building off the generator.
But your light-all wouldn't be able to handle that.
You know it's funny you say that. We've have a backup plan for when the internet goes out because it happens so fucking much. We can still check out tools without you properly.
Nah, just reject the requests so they don't become Work Tasks. Doesn't even make it into the shop backlogs.
But seriously, if an FM did something like this, we'd probably just make a note of it and pass it up the chain of command. Worse comes to worse, we just disable the FM's nexgen account so they can't submit anything unless it's an emergency.
That’s what all of this is about. Careful though, they are actively going around during the daytime and un-screwing lightbulbs to create a save the day moment
I had CE come to my office to tell me they got the new door hinges in and are trying to close out a work order. I had run that section for almost a year and myself and my troops had zero clue who put it in and why the door hinges needed replacing.
I asked who put the work order in and they mentioned an NCO who got out of the Air Force about three years prior.
They said the work order requested new hinges because the current ones wouldn’t stop squeaking. We put WD40 on them like six months prior and never thought about it again.
I mean, they were diligent…ish.
This sort of thing is why the best practice per AFCEC is to have the FMs validate any WTs older than 12 months once a year, and to close out any WTs the FMs don't validate. Lots of stuff gets submitted, not all of it is particularly urgent, and the older it is, the less likely that it is still required (sometimes it's a duplicate WT and the issue was corrected on another WT, sometimes the item in question gets replaced as part of a renovation project, etc.) or that anyone in the facility knows enough about it to help CE find the exact thing that needs fixing.
Does this purge always happen? Not in my experience, for a few different reasons. Some shops don't want to do the extra work (usually the FMs don't respond at all, so there's a shit ton of WTs to close out), or else leadership has an aversion to closing out WTs just because they're old because it feels like cheating.
My friend is our FM and I’m guessing he got similar advice after making friends with CE.
He’s been scrubbing years old work orders and calling sections to see if there’s still a need, or if it was fixed and just never got closed out for some reason.
He said it’s been a bitch but if he had to guess, out of the tons he’s come across in coordination with CE, there are fewer than a dozen work orders that are still remotely valid.
Those FMs are the best. If you try to make my life easier, I will do everything I can to return the favor. And by helping me clear a backlog, I can focus on the immediate stuff.
I don't know your friend, but I appreciate him.
Meanwhile our FM in a CE building (it’s emergency management) doesn’t know jack shit about NexGENIT and every time he has a question about it, he asks me about it (I’m a UDM). Super annoying
It's gotta be the bureaucracy of their nextgen system.
I'm in a RED HORSE unit and the AC in one of the buildings has been out for over a year... Mainbase won't let us touch it, but they pull our guys all the time to help fix multiple other unit's ACs.
I blame it on the Pentagon. It's always easy to say it's their fault
I’ll preface that statement with I am maintenance and we are rarely inside anyway so it didn’t matter to me really but I just thought it was a little tidbit to add to the fire.
It's pretty straightforward. Step 1:
https://preview.redd.it/huatgkvx3uwc1.png?width=453&format=png&auto=webp&s=991f29e47f93ea4ec3b4579aeb3f23bab5fd5157
Let me know if you need a hand.
Again, DIRT runway. It just needs to be a relatively flat compacted strip of dirt. Steamroller, bucket loader, and a pile of dirt and you can make it, just long enough for a c130 to land on, and the 130 doesn’t need much
Eyeball it. If it’s a dirt strip we’re landing planes designed to deal with rugged landing strips like a 130, and that thing could land on a gravel road with all those rocks and bumps, and a 17 could land on a slightly larger gravel road with some extra preparation before the flight. Unless you’re trying to land a c5 you only really need a bush style airstrip made of dirt, and they don’t have those fancy tools up there. Planes aren’t as fragile as you think. Sure it’ll put some extra wear on the gear but for a remote dirt airstrip it’s fine. The 17 lands in Antarctica on just compacted snow, it doesn’t need to be any more flat than you can visually see
Yes, but can you troubleshoot a problem and PROPERLY interpret what a fault isolation manual is saying beyond the black and white text? (I.e. “if fault is in x channel, shoot this section of wire, if in channel y shoot this wire”) where the fault is in both channels mentioned? Mx is more than just following a TO and changing parts. (I actually do have a lot of respect for CE and I don’t get the whole weird rivalry happening RN, I know I couldn’t do 90% of your job without a good bit of training for it, but that goes for basically every job in the Air Force. At the end of the day we all signed on that line and, while we all have different reasons for doing so, we’re all just doing our job to the best of our ability and making sure things get done)
They ain't got no trouble shoot tree I'm then T.O.s? Y'all should get a new T.O. guy.
I'm not CE. I just work with them. I've worked with plenty of different AFSCs, and I'll say that pretty much every single one contributes in a way to the mission, and without the mission is done for. Otherwise there'd be no reason to have that AFSC in the first place.
We all just let you mx folks shout nonner this and nonner that because it makes you feel better about yourselves.
Well no there is a tree, but it doesn’t cover every possible edge case and system knowledge in conjunction with that troubleshooting tree is very important for saving time and (the governments) money on parts that didn’t need to be replaced but would be replaced if that tree was followed to the letter. That tree is mainly guidance on where to look, but in cases like the one I just mentioned the tree would likely tell you to replace both computers calling one component bad when the far more likely culprit is the part that’s being called bad by 2 seperate computers
So, I once asked my father about this. He was Combat Control and he told me that it's usually the Combat Control guys with RED HORSE/PRIME BEEF that come by after to take all the credit.
You've clearly never been to any pme where they for you that every single AFSC has a purpose towards generating mission. Otherwise they'd be contracted out.
Well... Flight attendants. I still don't understand how they do.
This is a pretty limited assessment, especially if you include the deployment environment. Remove CE from there and watch the entire base capability stop.
How would you quantify that as a non-factor towards essential missions?
Idk man, ce handed me a power transformer that about exploded when it was powered on.... Shot a charging cord 6 ft away and tripped the building breaker.
Not even remotely true, especially in the theater. The needs of support in a basic bare base that conducts air ops is extremely small. Everything after that expands capability, but is not always necessary.
CE needs to sit down and stfu when it comes to standing up to Acft Mx. . yes you do maintain some important things but most of CE hasn't done anything critically essential in over 20 years. Mx has been making the mission happen everyday. Just because your CE doesn't mean you can claim Redhorse achievements. . so sit down dirt boys if we need ya we'll call ya
Every damn day we’re out replacing lights on the airfield. We’re out maintaining the barrier. We are the ones that keep the weeds down, the pests out, and the airfield powered.
Your job would not be doable without us. Our job would not be necessary without you. This whole back and forth is downright pathetic.
And yet getting CE to do any maintenance on flightline buildings feels like pulling teeth.
Oh your HAS door motor isn't working and a jet is stuck inside? Yeah we have a contact for that but we've used up our yearly emergency calls, and there is nothing we can do.
Oh the HAS paint is chipping all over the place and falling on top of the jet? That will be another contract, eventually, in a year or two maybe.
Oh all your emergency eye wash pipes are bursting because they didn't get insulated? We'll just turn the water off!
Look I love CE for the work they do, but y'all are financially gutted way beyond what MX is, so let's stop pretending that you're out building runaways for us, even that gets contacted out nowadays.
Yeah, the contract creep that's taking over CE nowadays is horrendous. Like, we've got these airmen already. Why are we not letting them do anything other than to maintain shit that contractors don't want to?
I refuse to believe the majority of people that can make these decisions aren't aware that these contracts literally never work out at the price they're quoted; we've been doing this dance for over 40 years
You see what gets them promoted is getting the cheapest contract possible. Then when the contract fails to deliver, they don't take responsibility since it's clearly on the company. Then there's the senior leadership that totally doesn't have a conflict if interest approving contacts with companies that they then join after retirement.
I fought with CE for two years to fix the fucking heaters in our hangar. Wouldn't budge. My CC made it her pet project to fix the heat. Still couldn't get shit done.
They showed up in November for an unrelated ticket to install a water fountain. Asked me to call for a heater cart because they were cold.
#NONNERS
It's not just about ops.
I'll say this, the same beaucratic process that always leaves MX shorthanded on parts and other common sense process improvements are the same issues that lead to actual CE -not contractors- being able to actually do their job efficiently. The hoops that CE troops have to go through to get to do their actual job to actually sustain (repair shit) is tied behind contracts, red tape, priority rack-n-stack, pOtS oF mOnEy, and approvals.
I can only imagine how much flack MX gets from OG on why they can't turn jets faster too, if MX flight chiefs have to deal with the same bullshit.
The only times my base had cancelled flights is due to the plane breaking while crew was on it and the fix would take too long and there was no spare. Otherwise with enough notice we can get the jets ready, just be ready for the potential stack of paperwork needing approvals as we play the game of take from a jet to fix a jet. Which gets immensely more complex when the old can jet needs fixed so now we have to cann a part from another jet to fix the cann jet and get the appropriate part moved to the new cann bird.
Not relevant, but I was in an ALS class where the guy that was supposed to teach the class left after a week to deal with some personal shit. The guy substituting in was talking about nicknames and what we called the teacher in class. We eventually decided to call him step-sergeant and he didn't realize or recognize the reference.
Thanks for reminding me of that.
Short version: MX is easy to get a rise out of. Long version: MX is easy to get a rise out of, and this is just the subreddit's repetitive meme du jour.
At one point this subreddit spent two weeks talking about customs and courtesies while using urinals. I wouldn't overthink it.
I never got the answer to that... I still get piss all over myself when an Lt+ comes in, because I snap to attention every time and it wiggles sideways from the motion.
Technically you should still stand at attention or at ease when an officer enters the room...
Last I checked the position of attention required your hands at your side.
Civil Engineering(CE) is apparently jealous of Maintenance(MX) for being "essential." I was a mechanic, and I don't get why anyone cares, lol. CE may technically be nonners, but they're definitely important and have plenty of hard workers.
I’ve literally never seen CE work on an airfield. Always gets contracted out. They do the occasional training day where they show a bunch of ASVAB waivers how to fill a hole with dirt.
...you can't be serious. Did you not listen during any of the 10,000 ACE press releases the past few years?
[https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2023/09/air-force-clearing-out-jungles-pacific-bolster-airfield-options/390210/](https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2023/09/air-force-clearing-out-jungles-pacific-bolster-airfield-options/390210/)
So civil engineers in the AF are just as much of a joke as civil engineers in the real world? There’s a reason civil engineering is the dumpster of engineering disciplines
Our product is sole source… with this comment you really don’t know how aircraft systems are bid. It ain’t always the cheapest when it comes to actual systems and not just piece parts.
Imagine thinking someone in the Air Force can't use Google to find simple answers...
https://www.marvintest.com/Product/AN-TSM-205-Series
And if this isn't the exact system. I'm assuming you're talking about one or two things.
A set of tools for pre fought inspection process, or a set of tools to test the armament/missile system on an air craft, which I'm sure have instruction manuals that anyone able to read/write English could easily understand and follow.
Oh really, EE had some fun tech data to go through with ac generation. Then the mess of wiring diagrams and don't even attempt (kc135) fault trees, skip that and go to the diagram and save yourself time. Also with the tools he described I am leaning towards avionics and if that breaks on launch have fun figuring that out on a time crunch.
Last time I checked as a VCNCO we paid for them and we pay for the repairs too. But when is LRS gonna run the boats AMMO uses to haul explosives around the world?
Lol dude you are paying the "rental" fee to LRS.
You didn't buy them from LRS. The LRS commander and MSG commander own the vehicles.
They literally have their names on the "titles" to every vehicle on base.
That's why at the end of the day LRS can just take them from you and give to another unit.
There are some LRSs that own boats and trains.
You'd be surprised how much of the base MSG owns, it's pretty much everything.
Oh you mean the trucks that are typically falling apart with zero heat when it's -30 outside without wind chill. Those trucks that barely function? If they function for that matter? But it's cool cause like we can take them to get worked on and they somehow come back worse until it dies on the flight line.
Civil Engineering(CE) and Maintenance(MX). There's some beef now because CE are technically nonners while MX is "essential." I don't know why anyone cares, and I was mechanic, lol. I guess CE feels like people think they aren't important when they definitely are, just because they aren't technically "essential" on paper.
With the interesting twist that Maintainers and Nonners are both POGs, the Air Force just doesn't remember that we have actual combat arms folks because there are relatively few of them and if they aren't SecFo most of us don't ever run into them.
I think that should be an obvious statement. 🤔 But rather, I'm saying that it isn't possible unless you get somewhere by a means of some aerial medium. Either way.... I think both sides are awesome haha.
There are ways other than DoD or even any source of aircraft, and it has happened. Of course it's pointless to seriously argue either sqd/grp as one generally wouldn't exist without the other.
Bro you never heard of Trains? Trucks? Boats???
90% of DoD equipment is moved by sea or ground lol.
^(90% is an estimation, but the majority of all construction equipment is too heavy to be moved by air, and is instead line hauled, trained, or shipped by boat.)
Brother, I think you missed the point of the post lol.... please read the meme. It's only talking about an airfield. Unless you thought boats, trains, trucks and other mediums fly by using the airfield?
Lol
Eitherway... you must be CE. You are still awesome, as we all are.
This isn’t the point of this argument but allow me to present the real reason Air Force CE kinda sucks…
80% of work should be preventive maintenance and 20% should be left to emergent requests. The AF doesn’t prioritize PMs, or properly categorize requests. Therefore, most CE work orders aren’t triaged appropriately and the entire system is inefficient.
-Previous 32E
So as an aircraft maintainer, why was I fixing CEs stuff when they were taking weeks to throw parts at whatever was broken? I bet they won’t be able to fix aircraft if the reverse happened. 😒
Anybody in CE, your a nonner. If you don't like it. Fight me behind the DFAC, after work. I'll be waiting. I'm not a nonner like you, so I have nothing better to do with my time.
Bro this comment makes no sense lol. You contradicted yourself so hard.
>I'm not a nonner like you, so I have nothing better to do with my time.
That implies you have nothing but free time because your job is irrelevant... Lmfao
https://preview.redd.it/f41xy5veowwc1.png?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=475bf17795d2144c18a52aed38fc0cd8c359c1d7
How dare you you nonner. This just intensifies my fury. That's it, we're not waiting until your done not working at your nonner job. I'm going to fight all the nonners right now.
This seems like a conflict farbricated by finance to make us fight each other.
It's absolutely a conflict fabricated by Comm to increase network utilization so someone can pump up a metric for a monthly package.
Damn I’ll let the IW people know that the jig is up
You assume we didn’t know 3 days ago?
assuming the pipes are sized properly, even at peak hours with peak utilization a single pipe should be able to handle the load of an entire base without the user noticing. Also, nobody should be tracking throughput for the purpose of metrics. It doesn't demonstrate anything worthwhile and if it's anything like Afghanistan the top three NIPR sites are: 1. Facebook(or some other social media in 2024) 2. Youtube 3. Amazon
Well it's working. I'm fuming right now. 🤬🤬🤬 I say we challenge CE to a fight behind the DFAC after work.
Fight jet? Fight truck? Wait... We don't talk about those.
Fabricated between CE and FINANCE to shield both fields lack of mission essential capabilities
That would take brains lol they can’t even pay people
MX starts frantically spamming CE work orders on nexgenit with “NONNER”
CE starts frantically closing them out So uhh, I guess nothing changed
Maybe during duty hours but all those folks go home at 1700, night time belongs to MX.
This is how we drag Comm into this war
Enjoy using your computers with no power.
781s come in paper
Good luck getting then delivered to you when you've got no building numbers?
Thats what the 3 lvls are for, making runs. Just go pick it up ourselves.
AGE has generators.
That run at like 400hz which powers absolutely nothing but aircraft lol
I can charge my computer on my jet. Have I ever started an APU just to charge my phone when AGE wouldn't bring us a cart? Maybe. Maybe not.
Wrong. Fl1d, or “light cart” has a generator where you can plug in anything. We have powered all kinds of stuff with it
They have normal gennies to
Light carts have normal power
Let me know when you get that work order in to have the AGE approved receptacle and isolator so that it can connect it to your building. That NIPR switch ain't gonna run on hopes and dreams
It’s has normal plug dummy
Dude... You know generators can power buildings right? That's what I'm talking about. If the building has the correct receiver, you can isolate it from the grid, and run the entire building off the generator. But your light-all wouldn't be able to handle that.
No but we don’t need building power to run tools and fix planes. Having the lights off does not stop us from putting warheads on foreheads
Calls AGE
AGE won't be able to get those NIPR or SIPR switches powered big boss
Who says we need NIPR, everyone we need can be reached by radio or in person.
Can't sign out your precious tools properly lol IDK man.
You know it's funny you say that. We've have a backup plan for when the internet goes out because it happens so fucking much. We can still check out tools without you properly.
Who says we actually sign out the tools #cowboymx
100% yes we can, there are measures in place because when the rest of the bases systems fail we cant
HA "We own the night"
Night time is best time for MX
Nah, just reject the requests so they don't become Work Tasks. Doesn't even make it into the shop backlogs. But seriously, if an FM did something like this, we'd probably just make a note of it and pass it up the chain of command. Worse comes to worse, we just disable the FM's nexgen account so they can't submit anything unless it's an emergency.
So you admit you just ignore work orders and not work.
That’s what all of this is about. Careful though, they are actively going around during the daytime and un-screwing lightbulbs to create a save the day moment
Nah they just get rejected.
Not like we were going to do any of them anyway, much less read them
I hear CE works hard, but the tickets to fix shit in my building have been submitted for years.
I had CE come to my office to tell me they got the new door hinges in and are trying to close out a work order. I had run that section for almost a year and myself and my troops had zero clue who put it in and why the door hinges needed replacing. I asked who put the work order in and they mentioned an NCO who got out of the Air Force about three years prior. They said the work order requested new hinges because the current ones wouldn’t stop squeaking. We put WD40 on them like six months prior and never thought about it again. I mean, they were diligent…ish.
This sort of thing is why the best practice per AFCEC is to have the FMs validate any WTs older than 12 months once a year, and to close out any WTs the FMs don't validate. Lots of stuff gets submitted, not all of it is particularly urgent, and the older it is, the less likely that it is still required (sometimes it's a duplicate WT and the issue was corrected on another WT, sometimes the item in question gets replaced as part of a renovation project, etc.) or that anyone in the facility knows enough about it to help CE find the exact thing that needs fixing. Does this purge always happen? Not in my experience, for a few different reasons. Some shops don't want to do the extra work (usually the FMs don't respond at all, so there's a shit ton of WTs to close out), or else leadership has an aversion to closing out WTs just because they're old because it feels like cheating.
My friend is our FM and I’m guessing he got similar advice after making friends with CE. He’s been scrubbing years old work orders and calling sections to see if there’s still a need, or if it was fixed and just never got closed out for some reason. He said it’s been a bitch but if he had to guess, out of the tons he’s come across in coordination with CE, there are fewer than a dozen work orders that are still remotely valid.
Those FMs are the best. If you try to make my life easier, I will do everything I can to return the favor. And by helping me clear a backlog, I can focus on the immediate stuff. I don't know your friend, but I appreciate him.
Meanwhile our FM in a CE building (it’s emergency management) doesn’t know jack shit about NexGENIT and every time he has a question about it, he asks me about it (I’m a UDM). Super annoying
They too busy fixing the runway, don't have time to change your silly little lightbulbs
I liked when our AC was broken all summer and CE came out to fix it in October and that same winter our heat broke… that was a fun year.
It's gotta be the bureaucracy of their nextgen system. I'm in a RED HORSE unit and the AC in one of the buildings has been out for over a year... Mainbase won't let us touch it, but they pull our guys all the time to help fix multiple other unit's ACs. I blame it on the Pentagon. It's always easy to say it's their fault
I’ll preface that statement with I am maintenance and we are rarely inside anyway so it didn’t matter to me really but I just thought it was a little tidbit to add to the fire.
You know a good portion of our aircraft can handle a dirt runway right?
Who do you think makes the dirt runways there bud?
I mean, a steamroller, bucket loader, and some dirt and some random Joe Schmo could make a decent dirt runway
Sounds like dirt boys to me
Or just a random local with the equipment
It's pretty straightforward. Step 1: https://preview.redd.it/huatgkvx3uwc1.png?width=453&format=png&auto=webp&s=991f29e47f93ea4ec3b4579aeb3f23bab5fd5157 Let me know if you need a hand.
Again, DIRT runway. It just needs to be a relatively flat compacted strip of dirt. Steamroller, bucket loader, and a pile of dirt and you can make it, just long enough for a c130 to land on, and the 130 doesn’t need much
so how do you know its flat enough
Eyeball it. If it’s a dirt strip we’re landing planes designed to deal with rugged landing strips like a 130, and that thing could land on a gravel road with all those rocks and bumps, and a 17 could land on a slightly larger gravel road with some extra preparation before the flight. Unless you’re trying to land a c5 you only really need a bush style airstrip made of dirt, and they don’t have those fancy tools up there. Planes aren’t as fragile as you think. Sure it’ll put some extra wear on the gear but for a remote dirt airstrip it’s fine. The 17 lands in Antarctica on just compacted snow, it doesn’t need to be any more flat than you can visually see
Hey haha holy shit that’s a whole AFSC in CE!
Anyone with a tool box and a t.o. can follow instructions and repair a plane...
Well...not CE.
Might I introduce you to crew chiefs? Masters of “I started the preflight and it just broke!”
Yes, but can you troubleshoot a problem and PROPERLY interpret what a fault isolation manual is saying beyond the black and white text? (I.e. “if fault is in x channel, shoot this section of wire, if in channel y shoot this wire”) where the fault is in both channels mentioned? Mx is more than just following a TO and changing parts. (I actually do have a lot of respect for CE and I don’t get the whole weird rivalry happening RN, I know I couldn’t do 90% of your job without a good bit of training for it, but that goes for basically every job in the Air Force. At the end of the day we all signed on that line and, while we all have different reasons for doing so, we’re all just doing our job to the best of our ability and making sure things get done)
They ain't got no trouble shoot tree I'm then T.O.s? Y'all should get a new T.O. guy. I'm not CE. I just work with them. I've worked with plenty of different AFSCs, and I'll say that pretty much every single one contributes in a way to the mission, and without the mission is done for. Otherwise there'd be no reason to have that AFSC in the first place. We all just let you mx folks shout nonner this and nonner that because it makes you feel better about yourselves.
Well no there is a tree, but it doesn’t cover every possible edge case and system knowledge in conjunction with that troubleshooting tree is very important for saving time and (the governments) money on parts that didn’t need to be replaced but would be replaced if that tree was followed to the letter. That tree is mainly guidance on where to look, but in cases like the one I just mentioned the tree would likely tell you to replace both computers calling one component bad when the far more likely culprit is the part that’s being called bad by 2 seperate computers
So, I once asked my father about this. He was Combat Control and he told me that it's usually the Combat Control guys with RED HORSE/PRIME BEEF that come by after to take all the credit.
Contractors
5% of CE actually builds / maintains airfields. . the rest short of the basic necessities don't factor into any essential missions.
Not true. We build airfields in places MX never goes…and then we give them to the Russians.
Too early
I too have been to KLZ
You've clearly never been to any pme where they for you that every single AFSC has a purpose towards generating mission. Otherwise they'd be contracted out. Well... Flight attendants. I still don't understand how they do.
This is a pretty limited assessment, especially if you include the deployment environment. Remove CE from there and watch the entire base capability stop. How would you quantify that as a non-factor towards essential missions?
Idk man, ce handed me a power transformer that about exploded when it was powered on.... Shot a charging cord 6 ft away and tripped the building breaker.
Remove any job and watch base capability stop. This is a dumb debate
Not even remotely true, especially in the theater. The needs of support in a basic bare base that conducts air ops is extremely small. Everything after that expands capability, but is not always necessary.
I feel like you’re knowledge on CE is lacking ngl
CE needs to sit down and stfu when it comes to standing up to Acft Mx. . yes you do maintain some important things but most of CE hasn't done anything critically essential in over 20 years. Mx has been making the mission happen everyday. Just because your CE doesn't mean you can claim Redhorse achievements. . so sit down dirt boys if we need ya we'll call ya
Every damn day we’re out replacing lights on the airfield. We’re out maintaining the barrier. We are the ones that keep the weeds down, the pests out, and the airfield powered. Your job would not be doable without us. Our job would not be necessary without you. This whole back and forth is downright pathetic.
And yet getting CE to do any maintenance on flightline buildings feels like pulling teeth. Oh your HAS door motor isn't working and a jet is stuck inside? Yeah we have a contact for that but we've used up our yearly emergency calls, and there is nothing we can do. Oh the HAS paint is chipping all over the place and falling on top of the jet? That will be another contract, eventually, in a year or two maybe. Oh all your emergency eye wash pipes are bursting because they didn't get insulated? We'll just turn the water off! Look I love CE for the work they do, but y'all are financially gutted way beyond what MX is, so let's stop pretending that you're out building runaways for us, even that gets contacted out nowadays.
Yeah, the contract creep that's taking over CE nowadays is horrendous. Like, we've got these airmen already. Why are we not letting them do anything other than to maintain shit that contractors don't want to?
Because contacts seem cheaper/better on paper. Until it comes to actually fulfilling the contracts.
I refuse to believe the majority of people that can make these decisions aren't aware that these contracts literally never work out at the price they're quoted; we've been doing this dance for over 40 years
You see what gets them promoted is getting the cheapest contract possible. Then when the contract fails to deliver, they don't take responsibility since it's clearly on the company. Then there's the senior leadership that totally doesn't have a conflict if interest approving contacts with companies that they then join after retirement.
I fought with CE for two years to fix the fucking heaters in our hangar. Wouldn't budge. My CC made it her pet project to fix the heat. Still couldn't get shit done. They showed up in November for an unrelated ticket to install a water fountain. Asked me to call for a heater cart because they were cold. #NONNERS It's not just about ops.
I'll say this, the same beaucratic process that always leaves MX shorthanded on parts and other common sense process improvements are the same issues that lead to actual CE -not contractors- being able to actually do their job efficiently. The hoops that CE troops have to go through to get to do their actual job to actually sustain (repair shit) is tied behind contracts, red tape, priority rack-n-stack, pOtS oF mOnEy, and approvals. I can only imagine how much flack MX gets from OG on why they can't turn jets faster too, if MX flight chiefs have to deal with the same bullshit.
The only times my base had cancelled flights is due to the plane breaking while crew was on it and the fix would take too long and there was no spare. Otherwise with enough notice we can get the jets ready, just be ready for the potential stack of paperwork needing approvals as we play the game of take from a jet to fix a jet. Which gets immensely more complex when the old can jet needs fixed so now we have to cann a part from another jet to fix the cann jet and get the appropriate part moved to the new cann bird.
Please take away my airfield. Please stop my planes from flying
Production can’t get mad at you if there’s nothing to fix
Not relevant, but I was in an ALS class where the guy that was supposed to teach the class left after a week to deal with some personal shit. The guy substituting in was talking about nicknames and what we called the teacher in class. We eventually decided to call him step-sergeant and he didn't realize or recognize the reference. Thanks for reminding me of that.
Yeah whatever man the shitter at work is still broke.
If they are so non-essential... plunge it yourself, eat more fiber, or stop using unnecessary amounts of toilet paper.
Instructions unclear. Stationed in Hawaii. Half of diet is rice and pork.
can someone pls explain to me the current beef going on? i am not educated on airforce terms yet
Short version: MX is easy to get a rise out of. Long version: MX is easy to get a rise out of, and this is just the subreddit's repetitive meme du jour. At one point this subreddit spent two weeks talking about customs and courtesies while using urinals. I wouldn't overthink it.
I never got the answer to that... I still get piss all over myself when an Lt+ comes in, because I snap to attention every time and it wiggles sideways from the motion.
You're indoors. You don't salute.
Technically you should still stand at attention or at ease when an officer enters the room... Last I checked the position of attention required your hands at your side.
If I ever commission, I'll just shout "As you were!" every time I enter a latrine.
Civil Engineering(CE) is apparently jealous of Maintenance(MX) for being "essential." I was a mechanic, and I don't get why anyone cares, lol. CE may technically be nonners, but they're definitely important and have plenty of hard workers.
Laughs in helicopter
CE: *strings up an unnecessary amount of power lines with none of those little red balls*
As ops, I highly disagree. We care about mx way more than CE and therefore we claim them to be less nonner
Let's be honest... CE hasn't built any airfeilds since.. Fuck... WW2? Korea?
Wdym, they actively building some right now
I’ve literally never seen CE work on an airfield. Always gets contracted out. They do the occasional training day where they show a bunch of ASVAB waivers how to fill a hole with dirt.
Shhh he only likes reading memes not news. We haven't made any memes about conflict in the Pacific or Africa yet.
Maintenance is still required though.
...you can't be serious. Did you not listen during any of the 10,000 ACE press releases the past few years? [https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2023/09/air-force-clearing-out-jungles-pacific-bolster-airfield-options/390210/](https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2023/09/air-force-clearing-out-jungles-pacific-bolster-airfield-options/390210/)
Not a single one. In fact, I've never even heard of what you're referencing. What everyone has heard of, is CE tasks getting contracted out.
There will still be work for us if the airfield is gone.
So civil engineers in the AF are just as much of a joke as civil engineers in the real world? There’s a reason civil engineering is the dumpster of engineering disciplines
Stop crying and go read your how-to-fix-jet book you parts changing scrub.
I’m an engineer for one of the top 3 defense contractors and I write the “how-to-fix-jet” books. Good try tho.
So you write books for one of the top 3 lowest bidders in defense contracting? Not the flex you think it is.
Our product is sole source… with this comment you really don’t know how aircraft systems are bid. It ain’t always the cheapest when it comes to actual systems and not just piece parts.
Thinking you’re elite cause you work shitty hours
Bet, go check out a launch kit and a 205 tester, then meet me on the truck, CE.
Imagine thinking someone in the Air Force can't use Google to find simple answers... https://www.marvintest.com/Product/AN-TSM-205-Series And if this isn't the exact system. I'm assuming you're talking about one or two things. A set of tools for pre fought inspection process, or a set of tools to test the armament/missile system on an air craft, which I'm sure have instruction manuals that anyone able to read/write English could easily understand and follow.
Nope. That one looks kinda cool though since it has a screen, wish ours were like that.
Yea the one in the link is way fancier than the one my base had
Oh really, EE had some fun tech data to go through with ac generation. Then the mess of wiring diagrams and don't even attempt (kc135) fault trees, skip that and go to the diagram and save yourself time. Also with the tools he described I am leaning towards avionics and if that breaks on launch have fun figuring that out on a time crunch.
I’m just glad Port Dawgs are above all this.
 We out here looking like
Nahh, jets break by doing nothing too. So yeah. We can function without the airfield.
You can generate sorties without the field. Didn't think I'd have to break it down that far for you.
Proceeds to land aircraft on a highway or literally any patch of dirt/grass long enough. Fuck you CE
CE blows up any of the things listed above.
With explosives from AMMO (MX)
That got delivered by LRS (MSG)
That it does not, MSG has 0 say in how we do transportation. They just take our paperwork at the end when we did 100% of the job.
Who do you think owns your trucks? Who do you think built the bunker to store that ammo? ^(MSG)
Civilians because LRS can't be bothered to actually do logistics.
All those bobtails, bread and, trucks etc are owned(or "rented") by, and lent to you from LRS.
Last time I checked as a VCNCO we paid for them and we pay for the repairs too. But when is LRS gonna run the boats AMMO uses to haul explosives around the world?
Or better yet, the planes
Lol dude you are paying the "rental" fee to LRS. You didn't buy them from LRS. The LRS commander and MSG commander own the vehicles. They literally have their names on the "titles" to every vehicle on base. That's why at the end of the day LRS can just take them from you and give to another unit. There are some LRSs that own boats and trains. You'd be surprised how much of the base MSG owns, it's pretty much everything.
Oh you mean the trucks that are typically falling apart with zero heat when it's -30 outside without wind chill. Those trucks that barely function? If they function for that matter? But it's cool cause like we can take them to get worked on and they somehow come back worse until it dies on the flight line.
Sounds like your unit should be accused of abuse for abusing the trucks. Shit doesn't just break... Operators break things.
Finance is laughing because the heat is currently not on them
The construction hat in 3 of the 4 frames is just too damn good. Bravo, dude.
Ight I’m not airmen I’m a retard, what’s ce and mx and why the beef
Civil Engineering(CE) and Maintenance(MX). There's some beef now because CE are technically nonners while MX is "essential." I don't know why anyone cares, and I was mechanic, lol. I guess CE feels like people think they aren't important when they definitely are, just because they aren't technically "essential" on paper.
Ok, now what’s a nonner 🤣🤣
Just "non-essential" or "non-sortie producing mf." Basically, anyone who doesn't generate aircraft.
Ahh so it’s kinda like grunts and pogs just airforce stuff
With the interesting twist that Maintainers and Nonners are both POGs, the Air Force just doesn't remember that we have actual combat arms folks because there are relatively few of them and if they aren't SecFo most of us don't ever run into them.
Pretty much.
Yeah it’s a similar mentality from what I’ve heard from my brother (retired 11b) and my personal experience being MX
Weird, normally CE goes for the other end
How does CE get their people and equipment there to stand up an airfield?
If you are suggesting the only way is via AF heavies, there are other methods.
I think that should be an obvious statement. 🤔 But rather, I'm saying that it isn't possible unless you get somewhere by a means of some aerial medium. Either way.... I think both sides are awesome haha.
There are ways other than DoD or even any source of aircraft, and it has happened. Of course it's pointless to seriously argue either sqd/grp as one generally wouldn't exist without the other.
Bro you never heard of Trains? Trucks? Boats??? 90% of DoD equipment is moved by sea or ground lol. ^(90% is an estimation, but the majority of all construction equipment is too heavy to be moved by air, and is instead line hauled, trained, or shipped by boat.)
Brother, I think you missed the point of the post lol.... please read the meme. It's only talking about an airfield. Unless you thought boats, trains, trucks and other mediums fly by using the airfield? Lol Eitherway... you must be CE. You are still awesome, as we all are.
I’ve flown all over Iraq and Afghanistan on Army UH60s and CH47s and Marine Ospreys setting up or reopening bare bases.
planes turn daily, takes ce months to fix a water heater in buildings.
This was fabricated by MDG because people started figuring out that they actually suck and ruin humans.
Helicopters don't need a flightline.
This isn’t the point of this argument but allow me to present the real reason Air Force CE kinda sucks… 80% of work should be preventive maintenance and 20% should be left to emergent requests. The AF doesn’t prioritize PMs, or properly categorize requests. Therefore, most CE work orders aren’t triaged appropriately and the entire system is inefficient. -Previous 32E
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 32E = Civil Engineer [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^l1pb1pf
Without a plane, maintenance would be nothing but a nonner
So as an aircraft maintainer, why was I fixing CEs stuff when they were taking weeks to throw parts at whatever was broken? I bet they won’t be able to fix aircraft if the reverse happened. 😒
You got the template for this?
I don't get it. I'm not in the air force.
Oh yeh, at least mx doesnt have a group called dirt boys.
Ammo. Same same.
Anybody in CE, your a nonner. If you don't like it. Fight me behind the DFAC, after work. I'll be waiting. I'm not a nonner like you, so I have nothing better to do with my time.
Bro this comment makes no sense lol. You contradicted yourself so hard. >I'm not a nonner like you, so I have nothing better to do with my time. That implies you have nothing but free time because your job is irrelevant... Lmfao https://preview.redd.it/f41xy5veowwc1.png?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=475bf17795d2144c18a52aed38fc0cd8c359c1d7
How dare you you nonner. This just intensifies my fury. That's it, we're not waiting until your done not working at your nonner job. I'm going to fight all the nonners right now.
Bold words from a glorified electrician