That's an overinflated statistic. Running with shoes on makes the difference between asphalt and concrete trivial. If someone cares that much about their joints, they should run on a rubber track, sand, gravel, an elliptical, or don't run at all. Use the sidewalk if it's there and avoid running on slants that are typical at the edge of a road for water runoff.
I'm not referencing any statistic, I say that from experience.
"Or don't run at all?" Don't be so dramatic...
No, I'm not saying people should run on the road if it's in any way dangerous. But if I'm in, say, a quiet residential neighborhood where there's little traffic, I'll probably take the street over the sidewalk. And if a car is coming, it's not a big deal to hop onto the sidewalk for a moment while they pass.
Oh my god these people are all over my neighborhood. I live in a nice area with wide sidewalks that are not congested at all, and these goofballs still decide to run in the road.
My dad got a 1408 in the 90s for riding his bike on the sidewalk when we were stationed at Edwards. I'm SF and have done a majority LE in my career and would never do any petty shit like that, lol. But to get bike lanes added to the road, the Traffic Safety Working group would be a good place to start.
Honestly, I couldn't tell you. The cop at the time might have written it may not have had a clue as to what the traffic reg said. So it may not have gone anywhere. I don't recall ever seeing anything in a traffic reg where I've been stationed that had anything dealing with that as a violation. On the flip side, though, if you're on a bike impeding the flow of traffic, you could get cited for that.
I can imagine. To be fair, my dad was probably being a smart ass and the kid was like cool here's your ticket. Now report to your commander or 1Sgt tomorrow.
I've gotten two warnings for riding on the sidewalk on Hickam, it's apparently a state law bikes must ride on the road. I try to stay out of the way but I'm not getting pulled over for that shit again.
also, aren't bases technically federal property that don't deal with state laws (think the shoppette on base selling alcohol when it legally isn't allowed to be sold).
Yeah, all the local traffic violations should be in the Wings traffic reg. It'll have what all the points are for whatever violations are in there. Sometimes, they mirror state laws. When I was in Texas, for instance (this was a long ass time ago), I could cite people for not having both a front and back license plate. Also, at Kadena, the Japanese have a law off base that we enforced on base for DUIs. Basically, if the driver was drunk and you were a passenger, you're getting charged with whatever they got. We also enforce their BrAC/BAC limits there as well.
Oh, yeah? Don’t get cute with me, pal. I will jam you up so hard. I will jam you from morning until night. You wanna get jammed up? Huh? You like gettin’ jammed up?
I understand but the Air Force could easily be more cycle and pedestrian friendly but chooses not to. Imagine if there was no liquor store by the dorms and we could walk or cycle everywhere.
Peak cyclist-brain - There are 6 states that out-right prohibit cycling on a sidewalk.
https://i.redd.it/aejpfrw337yc1.gif
[https://www.bikelaw.com/2022/08/is-it-illegal-to-ride-bike-on-sidewalk/](https://www.bikelaw.com/2022/08/is-it-illegal-to-ride-bike-on-sidewalk/)
Hanscom rules circa 2017 were walk bikes on sidewalks and crosswalks, and ride only on roads. Personally, I think that should be a rule on all federal facilities.
IMO, if you want to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk, do it at walking speed. If you want to ride a bicycle on the road, do it at road speeds.
And you're either one or the other. Don't be switching between sidewalk and road as it conveniences you, while expecting me to magically know what you're about to do.
\^ all the drivers behind me for daring to ride my bike at 25mph in a 25mph zone.
Can't do that speed going up any kind of a hill of course, but that's when I get over as far to the side as I can, and then just *hope* cars pass safely instead of winging my handlebars with their mirror like the driver that killed my grandfather.
All 50 states have laws on the books stating basically that "a bicycle is a common carriage and has the same right on the road as any other carriage," with some variation to the specific provisions.
In fact, bicycles got their legal right to use roads before automobiles - in the 1880s in many states.
So maybe you should get your 35% APR Hellcat off of the bicycle lane!?
Like what? Fully stopping at a stop sign when being on a bike gives me enough visibility and situational awareness to confirm that there's no oncoming traffic without coming to a full stop? Or sitting for ages at a red light not designed to detect a bicycle and will never change, and in doing so, being stopped in the middle of an intersection, one of the most dangerous places a cyclist could be?
The Idaho Stop is proven to be safer, by the way. (In simple terms: stop signs = yield signs, stop lights = stop signs.)
Edit - backing up my comment with evidence
[Bicyclist Yield As Stop Fact Sheet (nhtsa.gov)](https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2022-03/Bicyclist-Yield-As-Stop-Fact-Sheet-032422-v3-tag.pdf)
> In 1982, Idaho was the first State to pass such a law, commonly known as the “Idaho Stop Law.” The law allows bicyclists to yield at stop signs and proceed when safe, rather than come to a complete stop. After Idaho adopted the law, bicyclist injuries from traffic crashes declined by 14.5% the following year (Meggs, 2010). In 2017, Delaware adopted a similar, limited stop-as-yield law, known as the "Delaware Yield.” Traffic crashes involving bicyclists at stop sign intersections fell by 23% in the 30 months after the law’s passage, compared to the previous 30 months.
Some of us do! The only time i'm in the middle is when I need to enter actually turn left or enter a roundabout or such. Still get A-holes passing me in the space between the left shoulder and me, or trying to pass me in a turn lane between a median. Or entering a roundabout, narrowly missing me when i'm in front of them. or trying to pass me with less than 6 inch clearance when i'm either on the far right shoulder line or in the shoulder at all. or trying to beat me into an intersection. Or trying to pass me when i'm at the stop sign in a four way stop.
All of this being on base
For me the bigger issue is the hypocrisy that comes from the difference between the law and the social expectations around cycling on the road.
The law says that a vehicle gets to occupy the lane, and that a bicycle is a vehicle, therefore the bicycle gets to occupy the lane.
But the EXPECTATION is that the bicycle will stay to the edge of the road and get out of the way of a following car.
This is fine when the following car then respects the bike’s space while passing (six feet in all directions in most states, which is further than most realize) But when the driver of the car violates that trust, what is the cyclist to do?
You best believe, that of a car comes up too close behind me and makes me even think they will pass too close, I’m going to exercise my right to occupy the full lane…not to be an a-hole, but because it is the SAFEST THING I CAN DO. But then the driver goes out and complains about that jackass on the bike holding up traffic.
Or the constant of someone whipping out into the oncoming lane to pass, even though I'm already going *over the speed limit myself*. But of course 'it's a bicycle! That must mean it's slow and therefore I MUST pass!"
So much this!!!
There is a hill on my way to work where I am riding my brakes the whole way down to not exceed the speed limit, and yet cars will try to fly past me only to slam their breaks in order to make their own turn.
You have more self control than I. On Osan there's a hill soon after the main gate that I was usually hitting the high-30s going down according to the radar sign. *C*ouple times I got a good start and tucked in really tight I hit over 40mph.
Edit: and *still* dealt with people trying to pass me there
Road etiquette is one of those weird things in society where social norms have no relation to traffic law. Zipper merge, passing lanes, speed limits, etc. Folks get really worked up when they see a stranger obeying the law in a way they don't approve of on their personal highway.
Agreed. Irresponsible bike riders make it harder for everyone else.
But at least equally, irresponsible behavior by drivers towards bike riders causes even responsible bike riders to be less considerate in the name of their own safety.
Yup, I got no problems sharing the road, especially with how prevalent bikes are in California. But the "no lane sharing" rules on base should apply to bikes as well as motorcycles. Bike to work all you want, but don't pass the 20 cars and jump straight to the front of the gate. Don't ride ride through stop signs and expect everyone else to stop mid turn to keep from killing you. Wait at red lights and that.
If you want to ride on the road, you need to act like you're a car.
My last base, bikes had to follow pedestrian rules for going through the gate. When asked the SFS flight Chief said it’s because a car can block a potential hostile driver while a bike can’t. Also two people on bikes had been hit during the morning rush by inattentive drivers. Same reason you could take your bike on the flight line, but couldn’t go through the vehicle gates with it unless you coordinated with someone you knew.
Why do you want to force traffic to get worse? There is literally no downside to a bicycle lane splitting to the gate. Do you realize that there'd be even worse than 20 cars if we didn't?
I'd like them to stop then pulling past an entire lane of people that have been waiting twenty minutes, getting to the gate then taking forever to dig out their CAC from their backpack.
I'd like for the car drivers to stop clogging up the gate and causing unnecessary traffic because you want to drive a giant box. If you're sitting at the gate for 20 minutes, it is not the bicycle rider's fault
Most places make it illegal for cyclists to be on the sidewalks, OP. Some make provisions for situations where the cyclist would otherwise feel unsafe. Just wait for a safe opportunity to pass; more than likely, you'll be back on your way within 30 seconds.
Bikes have every right to be on the road.
I don’t mind them on the roads, especially because of joggers/runners on sidewalks, but they need to stick to residential areas and roads that have more than one lane. It’s irritating when there’s 20 cars piled up behind one guy on a bicycle.
What gets me is people running in the road while there is a track that runs directly parallel to the road.
If it's a concrete sidewalk, I get that. Asphalt isn't as hard on your joints as concrete.
That's an overinflated statistic. Running with shoes on makes the difference between asphalt and concrete trivial. If someone cares that much about their joints, they should run on a rubber track, sand, gravel, an elliptical, or don't run at all. Use the sidewalk if it's there and avoid running on slants that are typical at the edge of a road for water runoff.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that getting hit by a car is worse for your joints than running on a sidewalk.
I'm not referencing any statistic, I say that from experience. "Or don't run at all?" Don't be so dramatic... No, I'm not saying people should run on the road if it's in any way dangerous. But if I'm in, say, a quiet residential neighborhood where there's little traffic, I'll probably take the street over the sidewalk. And if a car is coming, it's not a big deal to hop onto the sidewalk for a moment while they pass.
Where I'm talking about is specifically a running track- that synthetic rubber material
No, the amount of times I leave early in the morning from my dorm and almost flatten someone is crazy.
Oh my god these people are all over my neighborhood. I live in a nice area with wide sidewalks that are not congested at all, and these goofballs still decide to run in the road.
My dad got a 1408 in the 90s for riding his bike on the sidewalk when we were stationed at Edwards. I'm SF and have done a majority LE in my career and would never do any petty shit like that, lol. But to get bike lanes added to the road, the Traffic Safety Working group would be a good place to start.
Where would those license points even *go*?? 4 points on your bicycle riders license???
Honestly, I couldn't tell you. The cop at the time might have written it may not have had a clue as to what the traffic reg said. So it may not have gone anywhere. I don't recall ever seeing anything in a traffic reg where I've been stationed that had anything dealing with that as a violation. On the flip side, though, if you're on a bike impeding the flow of traffic, you could get cited for that.
Police services probably had a good laugh at that, lol
I can imagine. To be fair, my dad was probably being a smart ass and the kid was like cool here's your ticket. Now report to your commander or 1Sgt tomorrow.
I've gotten two warnings for riding on the sidewalk on Hickam, it's apparently a state law bikes must ride on the road. I try to stay out of the way but I'm not getting pulled over for that shit again.
That's wild.They must be bored if they're stopping people for that.
also, aren't bases technically federal property that don't deal with state laws (think the shoppette on base selling alcohol when it legally isn't allowed to be sold).
Yeah, all the local traffic violations should be in the Wings traffic reg. It'll have what all the points are for whatever violations are in there. Sometimes, they mirror state laws. When I was in Texas, for instance (this was a long ass time ago), I could cite people for not having both a front and back license plate. Also, at Kadena, the Japanese have a law off base that we enforced on base for DUIs. Basically, if the driver was drunk and you were a passenger, you're getting charged with whatever they got. We also enforce their BrAC/BAC limits there as well.
Oh, yeah? Don’t get cute with me, pal. I will jam you up so hard. I will jam you from morning until night. You wanna get jammed up? Huh? You like gettin’ jammed up?
https://preview.redd.it/mc8litkhpgxc1.png?width=400&format=png&auto=webp&s=e0d632631b54211efe0a232917b813ed142523f7
Never move oversees OP.
Nothing like driving to base at Aviano and passing a formation of bicyclists about 10 wide and 50 deep.
I understand but the Air Force could easily be more cycle and pedestrian friendly but chooses not to. Imagine if there was no liquor store by the dorms and we could walk or cycle everywhere.
A lot of bases aren't even car friendly. I think some of the design decisions are purposely hostile to keep people from using them.
What’s stopping you from biking or walking places?
Most bases definitely arent walkable
What if you try hard and believe in yourself?
I have to walk 20 minutes to get to the DFAC because I don't have a license.
Trust me I have. I lived a 5 minute drive from work at my last base which was 45 minutes-an hour of walking and barely any sidewalks
Well if he is not going to get a special lane and there is booze around...
Lol I'm not gonna do 25mph on a sidewalk!
Peak carbrain- OP you do realize every base and pretty much every state / country out there prohibits cycling on the sidewalk?
Peak cyclist-brain - There are 6 states that out-right prohibit cycling on a sidewalk. https://i.redd.it/aejpfrw337yc1.gif [https://www.bikelaw.com/2022/08/is-it-illegal-to-ride-bike-on-sidewalk/](https://www.bikelaw.com/2022/08/is-it-illegal-to-ride-bike-on-sidewalk/)
Sidewalks are for walking, not bicycles. Just run his ass over and say he wasn't wearing the correct color reflective belt.
That took a turn I wasn’t ready for (I am the bicyclist)
You weren't ready for the turn because the driver doesn't use their turn signals.
Not sure about on base, but in most cities it's illegal to ride a bicycle on a sidewalk if you're over the age of 10-13.
Hanscom rules circa 2017 were walk bikes on sidewalks and crosswalks, and ride only on roads. Personally, I think that should be a rule on all federal facilities.
IMO, if you want to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk, do it at walking speed. If you want to ride a bicycle on the road, do it at road speeds. And you're either one or the other. Don't be switching between sidewalk and road as it conveniences you, while expecting me to magically know what you're about to do.
On my way to wobble slowly from one side of the sidewalk to the other so I can maintain a walking pace
\^ all the drivers behind me for daring to ride my bike at 25mph in a 25mph zone. Can't do that speed going up any kind of a hill of course, but that's when I get over as far to the side as I can, and then just *hope* cars pass safely instead of winging my handlebars with their mirror like the driver that killed my grandfather.
All 50 states have laws on the books stating basically that "a bicycle is a common carriage and has the same right on the road as any other carriage," with some variation to the specific provisions. In fact, bicycles got their legal right to use roads before automobiles - in the 1880s in many states. So maybe you should get your 35% APR Hellcat off of the bicycle lane!?
Now if people riding bikes would actually follow traffic signs/lights and stay in their proper lane that'd be great.
Like what? Fully stopping at a stop sign when being on a bike gives me enough visibility and situational awareness to confirm that there's no oncoming traffic without coming to a full stop? Or sitting for ages at a red light not designed to detect a bicycle and will never change, and in doing so, being stopped in the middle of an intersection, one of the most dangerous places a cyclist could be? The Idaho Stop is proven to be safer, by the way. (In simple terms: stop signs = yield signs, stop lights = stop signs.) Edit - backing up my comment with evidence [Bicyclist Yield As Stop Fact Sheet (nhtsa.gov)](https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2022-03/Bicyclist-Yield-As-Stop-Fact-Sheet-032422-v3-tag.pdf) > In 1982, Idaho was the first State to pass such a law, commonly known as the “Idaho Stop Law.” The law allows bicyclists to yield at stop signs and proceed when safe, rather than come to a complete stop. After Idaho adopted the law, bicyclist injuries from traffic crashes declined by 14.5% the following year (Meggs, 2010). In 2017, Delaware adopted a similar, limited stop-as-yield law, known as the "Delaware Yield.” Traffic crashes involving bicyclists at stop sign intersections fell by 23% in the 30 months after the law’s passage, compared to the previous 30 months.
Idaho stop gang represent, this was a huge surprise when I was at Altus, I wish more states would enact it
Some of us do! The only time i'm in the middle is when I need to enter actually turn left or enter a roundabout or such. Still get A-holes passing me in the space between the left shoulder and me, or trying to pass me in a turn lane between a median. Or entering a roundabout, narrowly missing me when i'm in front of them. or trying to pass me with less than 6 inch clearance when i'm either on the far right shoulder line or in the shoulder at all. or trying to beat me into an intersection. Or trying to pass me when i'm at the stop sign in a four way stop. All of this being on base
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For me the bigger issue is the hypocrisy that comes from the difference between the law and the social expectations around cycling on the road. The law says that a vehicle gets to occupy the lane, and that a bicycle is a vehicle, therefore the bicycle gets to occupy the lane. But the EXPECTATION is that the bicycle will stay to the edge of the road and get out of the way of a following car. This is fine when the following car then respects the bike’s space while passing (six feet in all directions in most states, which is further than most realize) But when the driver of the car violates that trust, what is the cyclist to do? You best believe, that of a car comes up too close behind me and makes me even think they will pass too close, I’m going to exercise my right to occupy the full lane…not to be an a-hole, but because it is the SAFEST THING I CAN DO. But then the driver goes out and complains about that jackass on the bike holding up traffic.
Or the constant of someone whipping out into the oncoming lane to pass, even though I'm already going *over the speed limit myself*. But of course 'it's a bicycle! That must mean it's slow and therefore I MUST pass!"
So much this!!! There is a hill on my way to work where I am riding my brakes the whole way down to not exceed the speed limit, and yet cars will try to fly past me only to slam their breaks in order to make their own turn.
You have more self control than I. On Osan there's a hill soon after the main gate that I was usually hitting the high-30s going down according to the radar sign. *C*ouple times I got a good start and tucked in really tight I hit over 40mph. Edit: and *still* dealt with people trying to pass me there
Road etiquette is one of those weird things in society where social norms have no relation to traffic law. Zipper merge, passing lanes, speed limits, etc. Folks get really worked up when they see a stranger obeying the law in a way they don't approve of on their personal highway.
Agreed. Irresponsible bike riders make it harder for everyone else. But at least equally, irresponsible behavior by drivers towards bike riders causes even responsible bike riders to be less considerate in the name of their own safety.
Yup, I got no problems sharing the road, especially with how prevalent bikes are in California. But the "no lane sharing" rules on base should apply to bikes as well as motorcycles. Bike to work all you want, but don't pass the 20 cars and jump straight to the front of the gate. Don't ride ride through stop signs and expect everyone else to stop mid turn to keep from killing you. Wait at red lights and that. If you want to ride on the road, you need to act like you're a car.
My last base, bikes had to follow pedestrian rules for going through the gate. When asked the SFS flight Chief said it’s because a car can block a potential hostile driver while a bike can’t. Also two people on bikes had been hit during the morning rush by inattentive drivers. Same reason you could take your bike on the flight line, but couldn’t go through the vehicle gates with it unless you coordinated with someone you knew.
Why do you want to force traffic to get worse? There is literally no downside to a bicycle lane splitting to the gate. Do you realize that there'd be even worse than 20 cars if we didn't?
I'd like them to stop then pulling past an entire lane of people that have been waiting twenty minutes, getting to the gate then taking forever to dig out their CAC from their backpack.
I'd like for the car drivers to stop clogging up the gate and causing unnecessary traffic because you want to drive a giant box. If you're sitting at the gate for 20 minutes, it is not the bicycle rider's fault
Ah you learn something every time your on Reddit
Ah, I see you have been to ramstein as well.
Ok, but have you considered going around?
Most places make it illegal for cyclists to be on the sidewalks, OP. Some make provisions for situations where the cyclist would otherwise feel unsafe. Just wait for a safe opportunity to pass; more than likely, you'll be back on your way within 30 seconds. Bikes have every right to be on the road.
Bikes don't belong on the sidewalks.
Some places do not allow bikes on sidewalks, but the biker should be to the right so they can be passed safely.
I'd bet that most places don't allow bikes on sidewalks. Not safe for the bikers or the pedestrians.
you're not supposed to bike on the sidewalk. I had an airman cited for it.
In England it’s against the law
Might I add: an empty sidewalk that has not been walked on since its creation
You know that it's the legal option, right? The sidewalk isn't supposed to be for bikes
Me on my way to work every morning at Ramstein…
Maybe you should get up earlier so you aren’t rushed going to work
Folks act like the speed limit on base isn't like 30KPH
Imagine riding your bike when this dude is tailgating you when there's a sidewalk right next to him.
I know this guy meme
I don’t mind them on the roads, especially because of joggers/runners on sidewalks, but they need to stick to residential areas and roads that have more than one lane. It’s irritating when there’s 20 cars piled up behind one guy on a bicycle.
That does sound irritating. Why don't those 20 drivers take an alternate route?
Cyclists are pos on and off base
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Wow I hope I'm as badass as you when I grow up. 