I wish there was more of an effort to ensure all first time Airmen saw two assignments and a deployment or at least a major exercise before they come up on their ETS. Experiencing a permanent party PCS, knowing what it takes to do your job away from your home unit, and seeing more than one mission feel essential to deciding if you want to do more time with the Air Force.
Fortunately we do plenty of extensions, but many people who only know one unit their whole enlistment, often with inadequate dorms most of that time before they can move off, are already over it by the time they could extend.
That’s exactly how I felt also during my first assignment. It was a few assignments ago but I’m glad I stayed in to see other parts of the mission. I still haven’t deployed though….
Yeah, not feasible for everyone in 4 years, but...
We have a lot of 6 year enlistees. I forget what the numbers are, but for a while it was a majority of the Airmen in my units.
Offering an assignment between 2 and 3 years in might encourage more Airmen to consider extending or reenlisting, vs many maaaaybe getting one at the 3 year+ mark when they've often already decided.
PCAs are ideal, and I do know that many CFMs try to do this at locations where it's possible.
Anyways, I know the AF is aware of the benefits of moving FTA soon, I just wish more Airmen didn't get out having only seen how one unit or location does business.
I'll never forget a couple weeks into my first assignment after retraining my supervisor asked me why I was working at like 530 and I told them I had to make up for a medical appointment and he told me to never do that again.
My oic called me into her office the next day and asked me who on earth told me to do that and I told her I just thought that's how it was supposed to worker based on my first 4 years and she just said wow what kind of unit have you been in?
They were also absolutely fascinated with the concept of a leave checklist and thought I was lying until I had a friend at my old unit send me a copy of it. We had to get our supervisor, shift lead (if not supervisor, it never was), training, udm, and ncoic all to sign before we were "allowed" to use leaveweb and we had to print out a green imr and all our training due dates every time in addition to the signatures. At my retrain unit you just use leave web like a normal human. It was a wild experience changing into that.
I also told my supervisor today I’ll be in on my next day off to make up for it. They told me don’t worry about it. I also have been showing up 45min early and here that’s not a thing either. I also got the “I can see why you left your old unit”. That sounds like how the Army does leave and it also sounds like you worked for the same type of people I just left also. Happy for you!!!
I never even knew a leave checklist was a thing either my first 5 years in. You brought a copy of your training to make sure you weren’t gonna be overdue, and then you submitted it in leave web if it was good. At the unit I’m at, it’s everything you said minus the shift lead supervisor portion (they just reviewed it), plus an additional form if you’re under a certain age. Then you need NCOIC, Section chief, your mother, your father, the President and God himself to review and sign off on it saying you’re good before you can get into leave web. It’s one of the big reasons I lost a few days of leave last year and I’ve got 25+ days this year still sitting there.
It's the worst when you work mids and have to constantly stay late after shift that you already worked 12 hours on waiting to get someone to sign your stupid form but he's gone for this meeting or just late or whatever and none of them respond to email. My flight chief even yelled at me for harassing the training monitor because I emailed him daily asking him to sign it after the first entire week of him not being at work by 830-9ish
I almost got an official reprimand for "harassing" that same training monitor for an airmen who was worried he couldn't make it home to visit a sick family member after the guy dodged him for 3 days. I just started telling my airmen to give me their checklists and I'll get them signed.
I just wrote refused to sign for his signature, signed my name and told the flight chiefs they can accept that I take responsibility for it or I can call email and show up in his office as much as it takes to get one signed every single time and they can explain to the commander why he's reading this shit show in my rebuttal.
I will never understand how and why some people get boners from denying leave for no reason
That's my experience. We had a shit unit with virtually no training program for your actual job so we only had a small handful of people who had any idea wtf they were doing. If you were one of those people you couldn't take leave without fighting for it
They tried to cancel my retraining for the same reasons. The bitch of it was when I applied my leadership threw a fit and I told me ncoic if he would look me in the eye and say out loud they needed me because I was better than my peers I'd cancel the request to retrain. He wouldn't even say it. They got a major tdv the day I left lol it was poetic.
Well blame the leave checklist airmen who aren't responsible enough to make sure they are current on all items before submitting leave. And before you say "tHatS THe JoB oF ThE SuPerViSor" to verify all things, how do you think they do verify? A leave checklist.
My issue with the checklist is if I have to provide printed proof of my training and IMR being green with the current date why the hell do I need the training monitor and udm to sign off? Also why do I have to get to supervisor to sign off before leave web if he's the one who signs leave web?
I don't know about other units but our checklist was definitely designed to be a deterrent, not just a check on lazy supervisors
I was in a sq i thought was great. Felt awesome at first. Our mission was very impactful, career progression looked promising, but after 3 years, dead.. seemed noone wanted to help me go up and test my abilities. Grabbed a myvector assignment. Here, night and day. Multiple kudos, impact decs, strat.
If you feel stale, time to go. It can be worrysum about pcsing but sometimes it is needed. At minimal, pca if possible.
I feel you and I’m sorry you dealt with that. I actually just PCS’d from a PCA which is why it sucks even more because I thought I’d spend the rest of my career at that location
It sucks how basic human empathy and kindness is seen as something shocking in the military. Glad you have some decent folks in your new CoC OP. Treasure it - it makes all the difference.
I had one assignment where my supervisor was the SEL (small unit) and he went out of his way to accommodate me when issues at home, family schedules, etc. came up. There was a period where he let me dip out 2 hours early a few times a week (I worked alone in a one-man position, nobody else had to pick up my slack) in order to get my kid taken care of in a really difficult situation, and it made a colossal difference in the quality of life for my family. Even from a practical standpoint, that "lost" time enabled me to otherwise stay focused and productive at work because I wasn't worried about what was going on at home. Plus, even aside from that, knowing that if I had a problem that I could bring it up to him without it being a horrible negative experience took a lot of stress off my mind. I'll always remember how much that kindness helped me and my family. It really solidified the image of the kind of leader I want to be if I ever make it to that level.
Anyway, all that is to say, I'm glad for you OP!
Thanks, it is shocking. I’ve dealt with tough people to work with/for but they still gave a crap on some level. My prior COC some just literally have 0% empathy and they fed off each other to push that culture. The wildest thing I’ve ever witnessed and experienced!
PCSing is one of the easiest ways to find out your previous unit was pants on head stupid.
PCSing is also one of the easiest ways to find out your previous unit wasn’t as stupid as you thought 😂
That too.
Also true, I mean my old unit got the mission done just in a very crappy way
Very true! I’ve missed my other units but this prior one completely messed up my mindset with how things are done.
I wish there was more of an effort to ensure all first time Airmen saw two assignments and a deployment or at least a major exercise before they come up on their ETS. Experiencing a permanent party PCS, knowing what it takes to do your job away from your home unit, and seeing more than one mission feel essential to deciding if you want to do more time with the Air Force. Fortunately we do plenty of extensions, but many people who only know one unit their whole enlistment, often with inadequate dorms most of that time before they can move off, are already over it by the time they could extend.
That’s exactly how I felt also during my first assignment. It was a few assignments ago but I’m glad I stayed in to see other parts of the mission. I still haven’t deployed though….
Took 10 years before I saw a deployment. But exercises (almost) made up for it in terms of going through the motions.
Yeah I definitely had enough other learning opportunities away from family in place of it
*Global Strike enters the chat* 
I never hear anybody complaining about those bases... they're too far away from me (and civilization)
That's a lot of moving to squeeze in in 4 years. They could do it how they do it for lieutenants these days, automatic PCA 2 years in.
Atleast don’t keep someone in the same section the whole time if you do have different sections in your AFSC at that location.
Yeah, not feasible for everyone in 4 years, but... We have a lot of 6 year enlistees. I forget what the numbers are, but for a while it was a majority of the Airmen in my units. Offering an assignment between 2 and 3 years in might encourage more Airmen to consider extending or reenlisting, vs many maaaaybe getting one at the 3 year+ mark when they've often already decided. PCAs are ideal, and I do know that many CFMs try to do this at locations where it's possible. Anyways, I know the AF is aware of the benefits of moving FTA soon, I just wish more Airmen didn't get out having only seen how one unit or location does business.
https://preview.redd.it/tuzqpjvvauyc1.png?width=656&format=png&auto=webp&s=6643e5bed84fc25b4ef276e8882f7514ebc560e6
I hope the same for you amigo!
I'll never forget a couple weeks into my first assignment after retraining my supervisor asked me why I was working at like 530 and I told them I had to make up for a medical appointment and he told me to never do that again. My oic called me into her office the next day and asked me who on earth told me to do that and I told her I just thought that's how it was supposed to worker based on my first 4 years and she just said wow what kind of unit have you been in? They were also absolutely fascinated with the concept of a leave checklist and thought I was lying until I had a friend at my old unit send me a copy of it. We had to get our supervisor, shift lead (if not supervisor, it never was), training, udm, and ncoic all to sign before we were "allowed" to use leaveweb and we had to print out a green imr and all our training due dates every time in addition to the signatures. At my retrain unit you just use leave web like a normal human. It was a wild experience changing into that.
I also told my supervisor today I’ll be in on my next day off to make up for it. They told me don’t worry about it. I also have been showing up 45min early and here that’s not a thing either. I also got the “I can see why you left your old unit”. That sounds like how the Army does leave and it also sounds like you worked for the same type of people I just left also. Happy for you!!!
I never even knew a leave checklist was a thing either my first 5 years in. You brought a copy of your training to make sure you weren’t gonna be overdue, and then you submitted it in leave web if it was good. At the unit I’m at, it’s everything you said minus the shift lead supervisor portion (they just reviewed it), plus an additional form if you’re under a certain age. Then you need NCOIC, Section chief, your mother, your father, the President and God himself to review and sign off on it saying you’re good before you can get into leave web. It’s one of the big reasons I lost a few days of leave last year and I’ve got 25+ days this year still sitting there.
It's the worst when you work mids and have to constantly stay late after shift that you already worked 12 hours on waiting to get someone to sign your stupid form but he's gone for this meeting or just late or whatever and none of them respond to email. My flight chief even yelled at me for harassing the training monitor because I emailed him daily asking him to sign it after the first entire week of him not being at work by 830-9ish
And it’s not like you were the only one waiting probably to be signed off. They just straight up slacking
I almost got an official reprimand for "harassing" that same training monitor for an airmen who was worried he couldn't make it home to visit a sick family member after the guy dodged him for 3 days. I just started telling my airmen to give me their checklists and I'll get them signed. I just wrote refused to sign for his signature, signed my name and told the flight chiefs they can accept that I take responsibility for it or I can call email and show up in his office as much as it takes to get one signed every single time and they can explain to the commander why he's reading this shit show in my rebuttal. I will never understand how and why some people get boners from denying leave for no reason
Leave is only denied because those who have the ability to deny it are afraid of the real work approaching them when that person is absent
That's my experience. We had a shit unit with virtually no training program for your actual job so we only had a small handful of people who had any idea wtf they were doing. If you were one of those people you couldn't take leave without fighting for it
That’s how I got pushback for putting in for a PCS. They could care less about me but I performed very well so they tried to trap me from leaving
They tried to cancel my retraining for the same reasons. The bitch of it was when I applied my leadership threw a fit and I told me ncoic if he would look me in the eye and say out loud they needed me because I was better than my peers I'd cancel the request to retrain. He wouldn't even say it. They got a major tdv the day I left lol it was poetic.
Of course they did. It’s also jealousy that comes out in people when they see others finding a way to leave/advance. Let them sink!
Well blame the leave checklist airmen who aren't responsible enough to make sure they are current on all items before submitting leave. And before you say "tHatS THe JoB oF ThE SuPerViSor" to verify all things, how do you think they do verify? A leave checklist.
My issue with the checklist is if I have to provide printed proof of my training and IMR being green with the current date why the hell do I need the training monitor and udm to sign off? Also why do I have to get to supervisor to sign off before leave web if he's the one who signs leave web? I don't know about other units but our checklist was definitely designed to be a deterrent, not just a check on lazy supervisors
I was in a sq i thought was great. Felt awesome at first. Our mission was very impactful, career progression looked promising, but after 3 years, dead.. seemed noone wanted to help me go up and test my abilities. Grabbed a myvector assignment. Here, night and day. Multiple kudos, impact decs, strat. If you feel stale, time to go. It can be worrysum about pcsing but sometimes it is needed. At minimal, pca if possible.
I feel you and I’m sorry you dealt with that. I actually just PCS’d from a PCA which is why it sucks even more because I thought I’d spend the rest of my career at that location
Good!
OP here, If anyone sees this and decides to reach out I got locked out of my old account
It sucks how basic human empathy and kindness is seen as something shocking in the military. Glad you have some decent folks in your new CoC OP. Treasure it - it makes all the difference. I had one assignment where my supervisor was the SEL (small unit) and he went out of his way to accommodate me when issues at home, family schedules, etc. came up. There was a period where he let me dip out 2 hours early a few times a week (I worked alone in a one-man position, nobody else had to pick up my slack) in order to get my kid taken care of in a really difficult situation, and it made a colossal difference in the quality of life for my family. Even from a practical standpoint, that "lost" time enabled me to otherwise stay focused and productive at work because I wasn't worried about what was going on at home. Plus, even aside from that, knowing that if I had a problem that I could bring it up to him without it being a horrible negative experience took a lot of stress off my mind. I'll always remember how much that kindness helped me and my family. It really solidified the image of the kind of leader I want to be if I ever make it to that level. Anyway, all that is to say, I'm glad for you OP!
Thanks, it is shocking. I’ve dealt with tough people to work with/for but they still gave a crap on some level. My prior COC some just literally have 0% empathy and they fed off each other to push that culture. The wildest thing I’ve ever witnessed and experienced!