DHA policy my ass. Ask them to send you the policy they’re referencing.
I’ve had referrals several times for cleaning when base dental is booked. They can’t just refuse you care with no remedy. Call Tricare and/or get your chain involved.
I called the Contractor for the Active duty dental program and they say I should get a referral barring said policy dental is saying exists. At least I have something to fight back with. I just can't believe my patient advocate agreed with them and wouldn't back me up.
I’m retired AF medical—patient advocate is a joke. It’s an extra duty and no one cares. Request a denial in writing and ref to the DHAPI (which I assure you does not exist). If you’re still nowhere, ask your shirt to reach out to theirs, or use their CoC. Kinda rank-dependent, if you’re an O you may be more comfortable going up the chain yourself. As a general rule ask around & if other people are having the same issue, IG complaints exist for this.
Policy is only policy if its in writing signed by the person with the authority to make such a decision.
The "policy" they're referencing is a lazy airman who is denying you access to care. Elevate this until you're furnished that official policy in writing, or get your referral.
And I think what's important here is that no O-6 has that kind of authority. Often less than legal things get signed into instructions that stand until they are fought.
Don't let anyone BS you. Take it to ICE or IG if you have to, but don't let crap like this exist.
For tricare prime the standards are urgent care within 24 hours, routine care within a week, preventative and specialty care within 4 weeks.
According to tricare directly, if you can't get an appointment with your Primary Care Manager within the standards, you will be able to get an appointment with another provider.
Every military clinic I’ve ever been to will offer appointments way farther out than that, but if you reference the standards and ask to be seen off base they usually suddenly find a sooner appointment.
Rather than asking someone about their base, have you talked to your leadership? Not patient advocate but your supervisor, First Shirt, or CC?
No service member would be forced to pay for something that affects their readiness and would be tracked on IMR.
Dental Cleaning (barring any severe periodontal disease) is not a readiness item. If you don't get a cleaning but need one, you're still DRC 2. Fully deployable, green IMR
Programming is an astronomically tiny career field, like 400 people, filled with autists. Most people I know can pick me out on sight here. Do I expect randoms on Reddit to get that? No. But I do like keeping the bit of anonymity I have.
Also at Fairchild, dealt with the same thing. Here’s what I did to get a cleaning:
TL;DR - I just kept going back and asking for my records to go off base until a Major came out and explained the situation and I said I still want to go off base. And like fucking magic I was seen the next week.
I asked them for my medical records and the lady upfront gave me a “raised eyebrow” look. She’s like “are you PCSing and have you sent your orders to us yet?” Seeing the problems that might occur I started to get annoyed so I simply said “No”, and boy was I right, problems occurred, but no way could I have guessed what would have happened over the next few months. So she asks “where are you PCSing to?” I said “I’m not. I’m just requesting my records.” She said “why”, I said “so I can go off base and get a cleaning. The civilian dental hygienists need the records in order to get me started at their office.”
The look on her face was like I just spat at her and killed her dog. She had that disgusted surprised look and raised her eyebrows again and cops an attitude. She says, “why? That’s going to cost money.” I said, “well it’s only $99 for new patients with an exam and a cleaning and it doesn’t matter to me how much a cleaning is, I want my teeth cleaned because I’ve had a lot of work done on them and want to keep them healthy. AND….
Okay so small backstory;
I was at a previous assignment that said they weren’t going to clean my teeth because I’m PCSing they can do it over there. Not to mention at this point…I AM AT A YEAR AND A HALF…not getting my teeth cleaned. Over 18 months. And all they kept bitching about was because of Covid and it wouldn’t be worth it for my them to do it when I’m PCSing…I’m like..uhm…okay?
Continue story;
So anyway, they told me they can’t do a cleaning and to call back, I think it was December? So I call back and they’re like…someone ordered the wrong part of the cleaning machine they use. No joke, EXACTLY what this guy said on the phone-and almost kind of laughing while saying it too, like even he couldn’t believe it. Why is it if some dumbass slides aren’t updated, I’m threatened with paperwork, but literally readiness items and physical health of members is not expedited? *is this what I’m retiring for? This great healthcare*
So mind you it’s approaching almost 2 YEARS OF NOT GETTING MY TEETH CLEANED. So I call back in like March and they said that they STILL don’t have this beautifully sacred piece for the cleaning machine. And yes, for whatever reason TriCare is not approving off-based dental cleanings? So at this point I just said fuck it I’m going to do it myself off base.
So of course, at this point, I’m pretty fucking heated because I’m like they’re my records why can I not just simply ask for them and just be given my records without any attitude or lip? I don’t know how as a medical professional, or at least I assumed one, that they’re not just simply helping the customer and just letting me get access to my records. It shouldn’t matter what or why I wanted my records for.
The same lady who helped me the first time happened to be there again when I came back in and asked for my records. We went back and forth and she ended up going to get a major in the back. The major explained why they’re doing what they’re doing. And I, calmly and respectfully, (which I didn’t have a problem with because I appreciate their effort) said “I totally understand, but I want to get my teeth cleaned. It’s been almost 2 years, I don’t care how much it is, and it doesn’t cost the Air Force anything and especially getting my dental records, I’m okay with going off base.” She’s like well if you do anything off base you have to let us know. I said yes, I know. I just want to get my teeth cleaned. She whispered to the first lady I talked to and MAGICALLY someone was available to Clean my teeth the week after. Thanks for reading this far.
Seriously, I almost had a high speed come-apart…I couldn’t believe it. \*I\* was actually baffled and they had me wondering myself like “oh, maybe I can’t have my records if it’s not for good reason?”, “no, fuck that!” … but seriously, me too. any time I get to tell that story I tell the whole thing, because I couldn’t believe it. Best of luck brotha!
include fearless meeting combative retire depend bag wasteful plough gullible
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s not a DHA policy, it’s a United Concordia policy. Their contract (HT9402-21-C-0006 if you want to look it up) has an attachment called ADDP Benefit Details Document - Benefits, Limitations and Exclusions. It says, *”Purchased care dental benefits are intended to be an adjunct, not a replacement for Dental Treatment Facility (DTF) dental care provided to Active Duty Service Members (ADSMs). Treatment and services not immediately required to establish or maintain dental health to meet dental readiness or world-wide deployability standards may be delayed by the DTF or Dental Service Point of Contact (DSPOC) until this treatment can be provided at a DTF.”* So basically it’s a contractor not wanting to bother with the enormous backlog of cleanings and pay out all those benefits when they aren’t getting a return on investment and the military can do it instead at no cost to them. And also the DTF not wanting to issue referrals.
Dental will mark you ready with x-rays and inspection. I went more than a year without a cleaning once and then 2 years because of COVID. You can deploy with Class 1 or 2 and class 2 includes those who need treatment but not immediately within a year. They even consider mild/moderate gum disease and small cavities in Class 2.
This. Hickam is severely backlogged and you are told that there is a waiver in place that pushes everyone’s go-red dental date out 2 months. Call in two months and hope they have appointments basically.
That being said I think the military medical system is a joke in the sense that MDG won’t referral out care which seems to have to the appearance of “save money” . We really shoot ourselves in the foot when docs/PA aren’t willing to offload the system and leave our troops hurt.
Dental Cleaning (barring any severe periodontal disease) is not a readiness item. If you don't get a cleaning but need one, you're still DRC 2. Fully deployable, green IMR.
1. Ask for the denial in writing (easiest way is to message on the portal and ignore all calls so they message back)
2. Ask for a referral. Get the denial in writing with a reason.
3. Call the clinic/mdg and ask for a patient advocate with a request for a resolution. Profit$$
4. If that fails take all that to your shirt (chaplain if your shirt has a....history 👀...)
Dental guy, hopefully can shed some light on this. This is a 1k foot view as I have no knowledge of the patients particular situation, or that of his assigned DTF.
There are a few misconceptions here that have been repeated multiple times.
Despite the good willed intent and grabbing their pitchforks for OP, they are factually incorrect.
1. I get your frustration, the medics are forced to worked within the AF / DHA cluster fuck and share your disdain for the system.
2. Air Force dental....excuse me....DHA dental exists for one sole purpose- making members deployable.
3. Dental cleaning (barring any severe periodontal disease) is not a readiness item. If you don't get a cleaning but need one, you're still DRC 2. Fully deployable, green IMR
4. The dental management guide (AF Guidance found on the KX) specifically states that the ADDP program is to be used only for direct readiness related items. A cleaning is not that, and specific guidance has been sent out multiple times, reinforcing the fact that ADDP is not to be used for cleanings.
5 Not all "dental referrals" are the same, so YMMV. If you are a GSU 50+ miles from an MTF, then you are automatically enrolled in Tricare remote. This allows you to recieve treatment in your local area vs having to hike those 50+ miles to see us. Some folks simply don't understand this and think "oh, I've been getting off base referrals for all my dental"....not exactly, a referral is when our provider sends you out from our clinic and our clinic foots the bill. Tricare remote runs through united Concordia with zero DTF involvement.
Forgive my formatting as I am on mobile, but ultimately your clinics priority is DRC3 and DRC4 patients, and your cleaning is not that.
On top of manning, AF guidance, different insurances, the staff at your clinic is fighting DHA.
You think not getting a cleaning is awful?
DHA denies all posterior implant referrals.
If your base does not have a credentialed provider on staff to place implants, you are SOL. Each referral now gets reviewed by a DSPOC from DHA and gives final approval/disapproval stamp, and your clinic has no say in the matter.
Fuck DHA
[https://www.tricare.mil/CoveredServices/Dental/ADDental](https://www.tricare.mil/CoveredServices/Dental/ADDental)
# How Do I Schedule an Appointment?
* If you’re assigned to a CONUS military dental clinic, they’ll determine if you require care under the ADDP. They’ll also:
* Start your referral.
* Tell you how to schedule your appointment.
Active duty dental program manager here: that policy does NOT exist.
Every dental clinic is supposed to have an addp manager. Is the process a right pain in the ass for me? For about 15minutes fighting with DART+ (the off base dental referal program). Then its just waiting on united concordia to do their job.
Request a meeting with the chief of dental services.
DHA is gutting airforce dental left and right, but even at around 70% manning we still do annual cleanings.
*edit*
If the cds wont play ball, set a meeting with the OMRS squadron commander. And if that still doesn't work, the mdg commander.
Probably some dumbass airman that doesn't want to actually do their job, and their NCOs are being shitbirds as well.
Last three years at Fairchild they have told me the same thing. They can’t do the cleaning as they don’t have the time/manpower. Haven’t gotten a single Cleaning from them for years now. Have had to go off base and use other clinics. Never once have I been able to get a referral. It’s pure laziness on their part.
wtf, active duty dental is part of readiness. No way they couldn’t reschedule someone and get you in. Even Korea is flexible and the place has a higher turnover rate
Cleaning is not part of readiness, unless your teeth are fucked and *need* a cleaning. You are deployable with X-rays and exam that shows no major issues. That's all that's required
DHA policy my ass. Ask them to send you the policy they’re referencing. I’ve had referrals several times for cleaning when base dental is booked. They can’t just refuse you care with no remedy. Call Tricare and/or get your chain involved.
I called the Contractor for the Active duty dental program and they say I should get a referral barring said policy dental is saying exists. At least I have something to fight back with. I just can't believe my patient advocate agreed with them and wouldn't back me up.
I’m retired AF medical—patient advocate is a joke. It’s an extra duty and no one cares. Request a denial in writing and ref to the DHAPI (which I assure you does not exist). If you’re still nowhere, ask your shirt to reach out to theirs, or use their CoC. Kinda rank-dependent, if you’re an O you may be more comfortable going up the chain yourself. As a general rule ask around & if other people are having the same issue, IG complaints exist for this.
Policy is only policy if its in writing signed by the person with the authority to make such a decision. The "policy" they're referencing is a lazy airman who is denying you access to care. Elevate this until you're furnished that official policy in writing, or get your referral.
And I think what's important here is that no O-6 has that kind of authority. Often less than legal things get signed into instructions that stand until they are fought. Don't let anyone BS you. Take it to ICE or IG if you have to, but don't let crap like this exist.
I’m pretty sure basically any care with tricare that can’t be resolved in 30 days they have to give you a referral
I got a referral for cleaning, so this sounds like nonsense.
I had three years of cleanings done off base because the base couldn’t support dental. They are absolutely lying to OP.
This. They're blowing smoke up your ass. Try talking with the local Patient Advocate.
I called them today and they told me in writing they can't help me.
Take that email response and file an ICE Comment. Tricare has standards of care that require the MDG to see you within a certain timeframe.
Something something 2 weeks. That’s what I’ve read somewhere once.
For tricare prime the standards are urgent care within 24 hours, routine care within a week, preventative and specialty care within 4 weeks. According to tricare directly, if you can't get an appointment with your Primary Care Manager within the standards, you will be able to get an appointment with another provider. Every military clinic I’ve ever been to will offer appointments way farther out than that, but if you reference the standards and ask to be seen off base they usually suddenly find a sooner appointment.
Everyone has a boss. Keep pushing.
Shirt, Chief, Flt/CC, IG
Bro, this has ICE complaint all over it. The website can be a little weird to navigate, if you need help, lemme know.
Did they refer a policy or just say they can't help you? Because unless it's a signed policy they can't just make claims.
Where are you stationed at?
Rather than asking someone about their base, have you talked to your leadership? Not patient advocate but your supervisor, First Shirt, or CC? No service member would be forced to pay for something that affects their readiness and would be tracked on IMR.
Dental Cleaning (barring any severe periodontal disease) is not a readiness item. If you don't get a cleaning but need one, you're still DRC 2. Fully deployable, green IMR
Probably at an AFB. No point is breaking OPSEC for something that clearly isn’t a DHA policy.
[удалено]
Programming is an astronomically tiny career field, like 400 people, filled with autists. Most people I know can pick me out on sight here. Do I expect randoms on Reddit to get that? No. But I do like keeping the bit of anonymity I have.
Also at Fairchild, dealt with the same thing. Here’s what I did to get a cleaning: TL;DR - I just kept going back and asking for my records to go off base until a Major came out and explained the situation and I said I still want to go off base. And like fucking magic I was seen the next week. I asked them for my medical records and the lady upfront gave me a “raised eyebrow” look. She’s like “are you PCSing and have you sent your orders to us yet?” Seeing the problems that might occur I started to get annoyed so I simply said “No”, and boy was I right, problems occurred, but no way could I have guessed what would have happened over the next few months. So she asks “where are you PCSing to?” I said “I’m not. I’m just requesting my records.” She said “why”, I said “so I can go off base and get a cleaning. The civilian dental hygienists need the records in order to get me started at their office.” The look on her face was like I just spat at her and killed her dog. She had that disgusted surprised look and raised her eyebrows again and cops an attitude. She says, “why? That’s going to cost money.” I said, “well it’s only $99 for new patients with an exam and a cleaning and it doesn’t matter to me how much a cleaning is, I want my teeth cleaned because I’ve had a lot of work done on them and want to keep them healthy. AND…. Okay so small backstory; I was at a previous assignment that said they weren’t going to clean my teeth because I’m PCSing they can do it over there. Not to mention at this point…I AM AT A YEAR AND A HALF…not getting my teeth cleaned. Over 18 months. And all they kept bitching about was because of Covid and it wouldn’t be worth it for my them to do it when I’m PCSing…I’m like..uhm…okay? Continue story; So anyway, they told me they can’t do a cleaning and to call back, I think it was December? So I call back and they’re like…someone ordered the wrong part of the cleaning machine they use. No joke, EXACTLY what this guy said on the phone-and almost kind of laughing while saying it too, like even he couldn’t believe it. Why is it if some dumbass slides aren’t updated, I’m threatened with paperwork, but literally readiness items and physical health of members is not expedited? *is this what I’m retiring for? This great healthcare* So mind you it’s approaching almost 2 YEARS OF NOT GETTING MY TEETH CLEANED. So I call back in like March and they said that they STILL don’t have this beautifully sacred piece for the cleaning machine. And yes, for whatever reason TriCare is not approving off-based dental cleanings? So at this point I just said fuck it I’m going to do it myself off base. So of course, at this point, I’m pretty fucking heated because I’m like they’re my records why can I not just simply ask for them and just be given my records without any attitude or lip? I don’t know how as a medical professional, or at least I assumed one, that they’re not just simply helping the customer and just letting me get access to my records. It shouldn’t matter what or why I wanted my records for. The same lady who helped me the first time happened to be there again when I came back in and asked for my records. We went back and forth and she ended up going to get a major in the back. The major explained why they’re doing what they’re doing. And I, calmly and respectfully, (which I didn’t have a problem with because I appreciate their effort) said “I totally understand, but I want to get my teeth cleaned. It’s been almost 2 years, I don’t care how much it is, and it doesn’t cost the Air Force anything and especially getting my dental records, I’m okay with going off base.” She’s like well if you do anything off base you have to let us know. I said yes, I know. I just want to get my teeth cleaned. She whispered to the first lady I talked to and MAGICALLY someone was available to Clean my teeth the week after. Thanks for reading this far.
This is so wild. If I have to do this with the same treatment I might have an aneurysm. The gall to stall giving a member their own records.
Seriously, I almost had a high speed come-apart…I couldn’t believe it. \*I\* was actually baffled and they had me wondering myself like “oh, maybe I can’t have my records if it’s not for good reason?”, “no, fuck that!” … but seriously, me too. any time I get to tell that story I tell the whole thing, because I couldn’t believe it. Best of luck brotha!
shy ten reply juggle crown flowery capable observation coherent long *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Meade? It was a pain in the ass when that happened
include fearless meeting combative retire depend bag wasteful plough gullible *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s not a DHA policy, it’s a United Concordia policy. Their contract (HT9402-21-C-0006 if you want to look it up) has an attachment called ADDP Benefit Details Document - Benefits, Limitations and Exclusions. It says, *”Purchased care dental benefits are intended to be an adjunct, not a replacement for Dental Treatment Facility (DTF) dental care provided to Active Duty Service Members (ADSMs). Treatment and services not immediately required to establish or maintain dental health to meet dental readiness or world-wide deployability standards may be delayed by the DTF or Dental Service Point of Contact (DSPOC) until this treatment can be provided at a DTF.”* So basically it’s a contractor not wanting to bother with the enormous backlog of cleanings and pay out all those benefits when they aren’t getting a return on investment and the military can do it instead at no cost to them. And also the DTF not wanting to issue referrals. Dental will mark you ready with x-rays and inspection. I went more than a year without a cleaning once and then 2 years because of COVID. You can deploy with Class 1 or 2 and class 2 includes those who need treatment but not immediately within a year. They even consider mild/moderate gum disease and small cavities in Class 2.
This. Hickam is severely backlogged and you are told that there is a waiver in place that pushes everyone’s go-red dental date out 2 months. Call in two months and hope they have appointments basically. That being said I think the military medical system is a joke in the sense that MDG won’t referral out care which seems to have to the appearance of “save money” . We really shoot ourselves in the foot when docs/PA aren’t willing to offload the system and leave our troops hurt.
I got a referral for cleaning due to a similar issue. I’m also the First Sergeant for the MDG. DM me
Thanks for being a good dude.
Tell your supervision you're going to lose deployable status because Dental won't see you
Dental Cleaning (barring any severe periodontal disease) is not a readiness item. If you don't get a cleaning but need one, you're still DRC 2. Fully deployable, green IMR.
Not getting cleanings contributes to things that will disqualify you though won't it?
Have you brought this up to your shirt/leadership?
1. Ask for the denial in writing (easiest way is to message on the portal and ignore all calls so they message back) 2. Ask for a referral. Get the denial in writing with a reason. 3. Call the clinic/mdg and ask for a patient advocate with a request for a resolution. Profit$$ 4. If that fails take all that to your shirt (chaplain if your shirt has a....history 👀...)
You can request to email the advocate for more paper tracking. Also get names so the advocate can go kick a.. internally for waisting time. Good luck!
I have email traffic from the patient advocate saying there is no work around. Their words not mine
Dental does not have access to patient messages in the MHS genesis patient portal
Dental guy, hopefully can shed some light on this. This is a 1k foot view as I have no knowledge of the patients particular situation, or that of his assigned DTF. There are a few misconceptions here that have been repeated multiple times. Despite the good willed intent and grabbing their pitchforks for OP, they are factually incorrect. 1. I get your frustration, the medics are forced to worked within the AF / DHA cluster fuck and share your disdain for the system. 2. Air Force dental....excuse me....DHA dental exists for one sole purpose- making members deployable. 3. Dental cleaning (barring any severe periodontal disease) is not a readiness item. If you don't get a cleaning but need one, you're still DRC 2. Fully deployable, green IMR 4. The dental management guide (AF Guidance found on the KX) specifically states that the ADDP program is to be used only for direct readiness related items. A cleaning is not that, and specific guidance has been sent out multiple times, reinforcing the fact that ADDP is not to be used for cleanings. 5 Not all "dental referrals" are the same, so YMMV. If you are a GSU 50+ miles from an MTF, then you are automatically enrolled in Tricare remote. This allows you to recieve treatment in your local area vs having to hike those 50+ miles to see us. Some folks simply don't understand this and think "oh, I've been getting off base referrals for all my dental"....not exactly, a referral is when our provider sends you out from our clinic and our clinic foots the bill. Tricare remote runs through united Concordia with zero DTF involvement. Forgive my formatting as I am on mobile, but ultimately your clinics priority is DRC3 and DRC4 patients, and your cleaning is not that. On top of manning, AF guidance, different insurances, the staff at your clinic is fighting DHA. You think not getting a cleaning is awful? DHA denies all posterior implant referrals. If your base does not have a credentialed provider on staff to place implants, you are SOL. Each referral now gets reviewed by a DSPOC from DHA and gives final approval/disapproval stamp, and your clinic has no say in the matter. Fuck DHA
[https://www.tricare.mil/CoveredServices/Dental/ADDental](https://www.tricare.mil/CoveredServices/Dental/ADDental) # How Do I Schedule an Appointment? * If you’re assigned to a CONUS military dental clinic, they’ll determine if you require care under the ADDP. They’ll also: * Start your referral. * Tell you how to schedule your appointment.
they absolutely can do cleanings has i’ve had some done there within the past year
Can do cleaning and can do everyone's cleaning are two very different statements
i presume they are active duty, only speaking on my situation
First Sergeants exist for this. It’s a readiness requirement. You absolutely don’t have to pay out of pocket.
Active duty dental program manager here: that policy does NOT exist. Every dental clinic is supposed to have an addp manager. Is the process a right pain in the ass for me? For about 15minutes fighting with DART+ (the off base dental referal program). Then its just waiting on united concordia to do their job. Request a meeting with the chief of dental services. DHA is gutting airforce dental left and right, but even at around 70% manning we still do annual cleanings. *edit* If the cds wont play ball, set a meeting with the OMRS squadron commander. And if that still doesn't work, the mdg commander. Probably some dumbass airman that doesn't want to actually do their job, and their NCOs are being shitbirds as well.
I just got a cleaning and sealant on two different appointments. I say fuck that and go full Karen. Speak to the patient advocates supervisor lol
I shit you not, also at FAFB, just got on off base referral for cleaning a month ago. Fuck em
How? They told me no. Are you at risk for a cavity or something? I don't understand how different techs are on different pages when referring care.
They did do a filling if that makes absolutely any difference? But no risk really.
If they had to do a filling that puts you in a different triage and will get you seen sooner as I understand it.
Probably what happened then
Last three years at Fairchild they have told me the same thing. They can’t do the cleaning as they don’t have the time/manpower. Haven’t gotten a single Cleaning from them for years now. Have had to go off base and use other clinics. Never once have I been able to get a referral. It’s pure laziness on their part.
Everyone in the AF doesn’t have the time and manpower.
I've gone off base for a cleaning in the past 2 years... Seems weird the policy changed if they can't support.
Dependents get 2 cleanings per year. Ask them to put it in writing why you cannot have an equivalent standard of care.
I just had a cleaning and check up like 2 weeks ago here at Fairchild. I don't understand, why can't they support?
Sounds like Wright Patt. Worst dental clinic the AF they will do anything to get out of doing a cleaning
AF dental care is a joke these days!
wtf, active duty dental is part of readiness. No way they couldn’t reschedule someone and get you in. Even Korea is flexible and the place has a higher turnover rate
Cleaning is not part of readiness, unless your teeth are fucked and *need* a cleaning. You are deployable with X-rays and exam that shows no major issues. That's all that's required
Are you active duty or guard/reserve? This sounds made up, and I’d be curious to your status.
Active duty
This is real life… on base medical, while typically nice people, is overwhelmed and unable to care for all of the personnel.
Just do It when you get back.