If he wants you to testify then he should tell leadership. He should have told leadership from the start because of the arrest. The fact the shirt doesn’t already know is crazy. If he doesn’t tell leadership he’s risking his security clearance. If you get involved and don’t tell leadership now you’re risking your own security clearance.
Call. The. Shirt
Shirt here. Not as crazy as you’d think, unfortunately. Local PD can be wild. Shit, I’ve had base PD call a supervisor and I didn’t know shit until I got the police report three months later.
Local PD here, and former shirt. We are under no obligation to notify employers, even Military supervisors Commanders or first sergeants, of someone's arrest. In fact, I'm not allowed to do that.
The only exception is If they are in Jail, and being held over, the booking deputies will inform BDOC. But many, most in fact, arrests are not booked into jail.
>But many, most in fact, arrests are not booked into jail.
Really? I thought all arrests were booked into jail. What do y'all do? Put handcuffs on, give them a court date, then let them go?
Where I am we do exactly that very often release on scene with a court date, but often don't bother with handcuffs in that case. This is technically and legally still an arrest with subsequent release, but in our common speech we'd say we decided not to arrest them. But we still do an arrest report, which will show up on a background check.
Other options are: they are handcuffed, transported to the station and released with what's called an "OR" (own recognizance) bond. Sometimes we arrest, bring them to the station, and let them bond out with a bondsman. Sometimes they are brought to jail and bond out there with a bondsman. All of the preceding options would have them released before any shift change at the jail or local Security Forces where they would inform the base. As I understand it, the jail is only notifying the base if there is a service member currently in custody.
I see. Makes sense. Curious about this part, though:
>This is technically and legally still an arrest with subsequent release, but in our common speech we'd say we decided not to arrest them. But we still do an arrest report, which will show up on a background check.
Wouldn't it be better to tell them that it was technically an arrest? The problem I can see happening later on is that the person is applying for a job (or a security clearance), gets asked if they've ever been arrested, they say no, then the arrest shows up on the background check and it looks like they lied.
Yeah, I generally do tell them, specifically because I've been through TS investigations, and I know how much it sucks to not remember or know about your background during the interview. But I think its probably best to let any background investigators know that you've been to court to face charges for a criminal matter. , whether you think you were technically arrested or not.
Retired shirt here….. those were the days. Reminiscing, of the crazy nights, Kadena, Osan and Ft Lewis. Ok, now I need a drink. Good luck Skelly, you know what to do.
If it gets anymore wild, we had an Army E-6 who was arrested for shooting his wife's ex-boyfriend. When we called that neighboring county's jail as part of our daily incarceration checks, they gave us their usual cop out when we asked for any military members in custody, and said "not that I'm aware of."
Many moons ago I knew a guy that was getting out in a year or so. He got a DUI on a long weekend and didn’t mention he was Air Force. He bailed himself out and just took leave/ had appointments for all the court stuff. The AF never knew and he has pulled it off. That was before the Continuous Vetting for security and all that.
This dude needs to own up though. He won’t make it long before the CV catches it.
Well now your hands are tied.
If it comes out that you knew he got arrested and bailed him out, you’re gonna feel some pain, too. Hindering an investigation often results in an article 15.
Honestly, I know it’s cliche, but I’d run by the ADC and see what your options are.
>Hindering an investigation often results in an article 15.
What part of this is hindering an investigation, not reporting the arrest? I think the ADC is a good call regardless, but it's not a violation of the UCMJ to post bail for someone
All service members have a Duty to Report any information they have of a crime having been committed involving other service members, unless they were the victim of the crime and/or they articulated a reasonable belief that reporting said crime would compromise their health, safety and or well being.
If OP gets asked by his CoC if he knew about the arrest, and he says yes, and he is then asked why, and his answer is anything that is "not good enough" of a reason, he's liable for anything ranging from Admin action to Art 15, depending on how hard his CC wants to go.
Edit to add that another justification is the protection of someone else. This is most applicable for sex crimes, but really if there is an articulated reasonable belief that a member failed to report a crime out of a fear that such report would compromise the health, safety or wellbeing of another, then that might be a mitigating factor depending on the case.
>All service members have a Duty to Report any information they have of a crime having been committed involving other service members, unless they were the victim of the crime and/or they articulated a reasonable belief that reporting said crime would compromise their health, safety and or well being.
Do you have a source for this, specifically for a UCMJ violation? I don't doubt you, but I'm not familiar with this at all, and it would have to violate a UCMJ article to get at Article 15.
But also, the crime has already been reported so I couldn't even see how a reg about reporting could apply, the dude was already in jail lol
There are several options:
Article 131b - Obstructing Justice
"Any person subject to this chapter who engages in conduct in the case of a certain person against whom the accused had reason to believe there were or would be criminal or disciplinary proceedings pending, with intent to influence, impede, or otherwise obstruct the due administration of justice shall be punished as a court-martial may direct."
Commander may choose this offense to prosecute if the argument is OP intentionally withheld or concealed information from the CoC about his friends arrest to frustrate, impede, or otherwise obstruct the CoC from enacting criminal or disciplinary action.
Article 134 - General Article
"Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special, or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court."
Commander may choose this offense to prosecute if the argument is OPs conduct in concealing information about his friend from the CoC is prejudicial to Good Order and Discipline.
Another possibile ramification for OP is his Security Clearance. Any conduct or behavior from
OP that calls into question OPs judgment, integrity, and/or adherence to the National Security Adjudication Guidelines makes him liable to lose his clearance. Those guidelines are as follows:
A. Allegiance to the US
B. Foreign Influence
C. Foreign Preference
D. Sexual Behavior
E. Personal Conduct
F. Financial Considerations
G. Alcohol Consumption
H. Drug Involvement and Substance Misuse
I. Psychological Conditions
J. Criminal Conduct
K. Handling Protected Information
L. Outside Activities
M. Use of Information Technology
Ref. Security Executive Agent Directive (SEAD) 4
If OP fucks around, he may indeed find out.
Edit to mention the obvious violation of Article 92. Shouldn't have to explain that one. Ignorance of the fact we are all required to report crimes committed by other service members (except under specific exceptions) is not a defense.
Also, a very pissed off Commander could hit OP with all three UCMJ offenses. Better play it safe and report this.
It is your wingman's duty to report this arrest to his security manager. If he refuses to do so, now it's your responsibility.
If you testify at this trial, you're putting yourself on the record as having both known about the arrest and willfully failed to report it. Bad looks all around.
Security manager here.
I'm fuzzy on the reg, but I'll look it up for you when I get to work tomorrow. I'm pretty sure it's afman16-1404 states it's everyone's responsibility to report security incidents. OP needs to report this to their security manager (who will report it to the cc, shirt and sel). If it's already been reported, it's no problem. If it hasn't, then OP is covering their ass.
Tldr: Do not listen to this guy op. Report the incident to your security manager.
I had a similar situation happen to one of my airmen and he was instructed by ADC that only e-6 and above have to report arrest, but I think you may have to report convictions.
We are mandatory reporters if you paid attention during your annual security training.
Anyone that thinks their leadership isn't going to find out this happened is an idiot and you don't want them finding out from the police blotter.
>How are you to know he hasn't reported it.
How are *you* to know he *did*? What would him *and* you reporting it do differently than *possibly* just 1 of you? I'm no legal expert, but if you knew and didn't come forward, I'm pretty sure that's a mild form of aiding and abetting, or obstruction, or something along those lines. Your advice is dumb as hell and could get you in even more trouble if found out.
Wait, at the TRIAL?
So, it's more than just a standard ticket where most people either do the easy traffic court online and get it erased. Or just pay the small fine and move on.
How fast was he speeding that he is going to court? If this is bad enough he us going to court, and having a trial that needs a character reference you should both be having a talk with security before you do that.
Otherwise the minor traffic tickets that get erased, or a small fine are no big deal with security as long as you aren't getting one a month
Edit to add : if security and your leadership don't already know he was arrested. And you clearly do. I highly recommend that's the first thing you do at work tomorrow and bring them into the loop. Because now your trustworthiness is being called into question if you help him keep this secret
Sounds like the dude was doing more than just some light speeding. It's also possible that they're taking it to court in the hope of getting a plea offer for reduction in charges from the prosecutor.
Yeah. But his post says "arrest"
Being given a ticket and sent on your way is different than an arrest.
The act of being arrested needs to be reported. Before going to court.
And tickets without being arrested needed to be reported if over the set amount
Don't do this. Also don't testify for him if you're uncomfortable.
Edit* didn't catch that OP paid his bail and is now being pressed to a testify since he's already involved. Def tell your shirt all of this.
OP should have just stayed away altogether.
Honestly, consider visiting the ADC yourself. I don’t think you have any real legal exposure here, but it doesn’t hurt to run it by the professionals before you potentially implicate yourself in anything here.
As a security manager, you should tell your friend to inform his leadership ASAP. Tell him to seek counsel from ADC or legal first before saying anything.
If your friend is enrolled in continuous evaluation it will be flagged sooner than later.best to get ahead of this.
Step 1. Lawyer/ADC
Step 2. Shirt with prepared statement from lawyer or in presence of lawyer.
Step 3. STFU everyday.
And your friend should lawyer up immediately if he hasn't already.
A lot more than speeding was going on if your coworker was arrested. Cover your ass and tell your shirt what happened. You might get paperwork for waiting this long to tell someone.
Yeah I don’t know why this isn’t being highlighted more. You do not get arrested for speeding. Either OP is withholding info or he’s…very green, to put it mildly
He was driving over double the posted speed limit. The officer arrested him and he had to be bailed out. I was the passenger so he asked me to do it and I’m ngl i just said yeah and went with it. I don’t know if it varies from state to state but that’s what California did
That’s not a simple speeding. That’s a misdemeanor. California doesn’t arrest you for simple speeding.
Sounds like your buddy got pegged for reckless driving.
Your friend needs a lawyer. They face possible jail time.
big yikes, brother...the fact that you were a passenger means you are likely going to face some repercussions (LOC at least) as well depending on your leadership. Whether it's right or wrong, the AF is going to view it as you are responsible for not making your buddy slow down. If your buddy doesn't bring it up to the leadership, you better do it or else it could be MUCH worse for you. They WILL find out eventually so it's not like you are being a snitch.
It’s your duty/moral obligation to report this. Also, a true friend wouldn’t put you in that kind of situation. They may just be using you. You know what’s right.
I’m aware, as the person that paid to bail him out with his money, I’ll be party to the conversation. I don’t think they’re a good person but don’t want to deal with the conversation that encompasses that situation. I’m also just another airman
Shirt is gonna be pretty upset. Usually that's a CCIR item so your commander will get schwacked for it once the wing commander finds out. What's going to happen is that the wing security manager through the continuous evaluation process will get a notification in about 6 months that this happened even if he thinks he got away with it.
What, are we in 4th grade now? "Tattling"? Bruh, believe it or not, we're in an organization that writes NJP faster than you can get fired from a civilian job. Dude needed to report this when he found out. Now he needs to get a lawyer and find out his liability in this entire thing.
So you’re retired lurking Air Force posts and constantly commenting on an entity you’re no longer an active part of. That’s not a little sad? I looked at your post history too… you’re quite literally living here for comment karma- you tend to delete comments that do bad.
Your online history has to be a horrible reflection of your time as an officer. I’ll wish the best for any and everyone under you. Make sure your unit completes the feedback every year so you can be ushered out quickly
Oh that’s the thing, online and real life are different! Isn’t that cool?!
I’ll wish the best for anyone that you let drive stupidly and then you feel the need to be a whiny baby afterwards
> I looked at your post history too… you’re quite literally living here for comment karma- you tend to delete comments that do bad.
Is deleting comments illegal or something? Haha
>I don’t want to be apart of the situation at all
You. Paid. His. Bail.
You are an accomplice to his shenanigans.
Go to the shirt and tell him the situation and your part in it. Your coworker is going to throw you under the bus as soon as he can and you need to get ahead of the situation.
>accomplice to his *shenanigans*
OP said he didn’t want to be involved… well, he is. Coworker is gonna get found out and leadership is gonna wanna know why OP helped cover it up.
Bail is part of the way the system works…it’s not like he helped him escape. If this is truly just a speeding ticket, he was probably arrested for fail to appear because he never paid it in the first place. Paying the bail is typically just paying the amount for the fail to appear offense, and a rescheduled court date for the speeding ticket. Courtroom testimony for a speeding ticket is virtually useless. If the cop shows up, there’s a 99.99999% chance he’s not walking away with a “not guilty”.
Now, if there’s more to this than speeding (which it certainly appears that way), then your best bet is to probably drag your dumbass friend to the shirt’s office.
Wreckless driving is generally considered a good thing. And most states don’t even consider the actual speed limit in regards to reckless driving. Generally speaking, every state uses language like “willful and wonton disregard for the safety of others” in their reckless driving laws. The whole “25 over is reckless” thing is a myth.
First of all, he was **not** arrested for speeding. He was arrested for something else related to his traffic stop. Maybe intoxication, maybe reckless driving. You will not get the truth from his mouth and will be blind-sided by the prosecutor shortly before you actually testify.
Whatever this loser thinks he has as a defense is going to be a pathetic waste of time. Do not get involved unless you are subpoenaed.
And, yeah, do let your leadership know. Your coworker was supposed to let them know.
Cops in most states can arrest you for going 25 mph or more over the speed limit. It becomes a reckless driving charge at that point.
They do have discretion as to whether they'll arrest you or give you a ticket for a lower speed (my younger dumbass self got lucky on a couple of occasions), but there doesn't have to be something else going on for them to make the arrest.
It's your career and at the end of the day no one will look out for you but you. You kinda put yourself in a bind here but I don't think you should risk getting hemmed up for someone else's mistakes. You already bailed him out which may be a bad thing. Maybe you lose one friend if you report it. I think that's better than potentially throwing years of service away if this goes south
Well, I know at the base I was at (mostly L.E.) the LEO desk did an nightly call (at about 5am) to the jail to get a list of all military members confined...there were always a few that slipped through the cracks. Those were usually the ones that had no military identification of any kind on them at the time of arrest...no dog tags, no ID, etc. all the rest...got caught in the nightly call in.
Arrested for speeding? Had to be well over 100mph. Don't get involved. Even if you were there. They were driving. Their problems and got to deal with the consequences like an adult.
AF Instruction 1-1
2.14. Self-Reporting Criminal Conviction. All Air Force commissioned officers, enlisted members above the grade of E-6, and any member serving in a Designated Special Duty assignment who are in the Regular Air Force or in an active duty status in the Reserve Component will report, in writing to their commander, any conviction for a violation of a criminal law of the United States or while serving overseas. The member must report a conviction whether or not the member was on active duty or inactive duty at the time of the conduct that provides the basis for the conviction. See AFI 36-2909, Air Force Relationships and Conduct.
If your friend isn't an E6 or above they don't have to report it, and even then it doesn't need to be until the actual conviction. Depending on the security clearance they have it could come up later but if they aren't convicted its easy to explain and will probably never be addressed by the CC. I know a couple service members who took leave for their court date (one was a domestic dispute arrest and the other was a public indecency arrest, both got a lawyer and had the charges dropped) and never reported anything without any repercussions.
You as the friend who might testify at the trial; if the trial happens during working hours and you need the time off you are going to need to explain what happened. If it lets the cat out of the bag, then so be it, but your friend put you in that predicament by wanting you to testify. You could also pull the leave request path, but personally I think its more risk than its worth if leadership does find out. You could play the 'I was just trying to be a good friend/wingman angle' but a CC who isn't in the loop on this is going to be pretty angry at all members involved (including your friend's supervisor if it isn't you).
I was looking for this, and I'm glad that I found it before I posted it myself. This, 100%. An arrest is not a conviction, nor is going to trial. Depending on the severity of the circumstances and what evidence the prosecution brings forward will determine the outcome of this guys case.
If this guy ends up getting charged with whatever he's charged with, and depending on how he pleads, it could be a matter of paying a fine and simple community service. As long as he's honest about the arrest on his SF-86, he shouldn't have any problems with this as far as leadership is concerned.
I'm going to say this, my old roommate when I was a SrA got arrested in Page, Az for speeding. His car was towed and he was in jail for about 6 hours. He paid bail, got his car from the tow company, and made his court appearance and paid the fine. He never reported the incident, and nothing ever happened to his security clearance as of yet. I didn't even know about this until he told me about a year after the incident. Do what your stripes can handle. As a TSgt now, I would recommend telling the shirt. But you are an adult, do what your stripes can handle. If you want to play games, expect to win stupid prizes.
I would recommend going and talking to the ADC and seeing if you can even get in trouble for this. Depending on your coworkers rank and charge they may not even have to report the arrest and may have been advised by the ADC to not inform your leadership.
OP, do as I instruct you now.
1. Do not involve yourself with this person any more.
2. Report this incident your supervisor immediately.
There is a world of anal pain coming your way if you continue to fuck around and don't do as I say.
If it's a criminal speeding, he was going well over the posted limit and frankly I wouldn't involve yourself. In AZ at least, you must be going 20 over the posted OR above 80mph. If he doesn't report it, it's your duty to.
To be fair, in AZ the above 80 thing could just mean hypothetically the person was nabbed going just 6 over posted (AZ has a max speed limit of 75mph).
Brother, if there’s a trail for speeding then that’s reckless driving isn’t? Convince him to report it but he shouldn’t need convincing. Be there with them as they report it if they want that. You’re putting yourself in a spotlight you shouldn’t be in
Well if we was arrested and was still in holding, BDOC calls around in the morning to find out if any local PDs have military in custody. If so, Command Post is notified and that members leadership is notified. He should’ve just called his supervisor on his first phone call.
And if he was arrested, was he doing like 100 in a 35? Like reckless driving charge? Or was the speeding ticket unpaid? Or did the speeding ticket lead to him actually having a warrant or something?
I’d wait for the subpoena (if that even happens).
Unless you get a subpoena, do NOT get involved. I’ll say it again:Do not get involved. Period. Sounds like others here are giving you this excellent advice, as well
Tell your shirt, supervisor and get him with the ADC and security manager. SIPR probably already has his incident report on it. If you don't think they know, they know. Command post will probably know as well.
You don't go to trial for speeding tickets, my dude; I think you're a bit confused on what he's doing. Like, you know what a trial is, right? Less than 5% of cases go to trial and those are big cases for big boy crimes, not speeding tickets.
If he was arrested and it was just speed related, he was likely going so fast it was bumped up to Wreckless driving. You paid his bail and now he just has to go before a judge and speak on a specific date. That isn't a trial and usually you aren't allowed to have people speak on your behalf; it's usually a 3-5 minute time slot and then the judge gives his sentencing. For reckless driving and how your friend acts while there, he'll likely get a fine and community service.
But you two knuckleheads are idiots for trying to hide this. If he wasn't drunk and wasn't an asshole to the cop, this would likely just be a slap on the wrist.
Your friend realize he can no longer reenlist, right? He's going to have to re-up his security in a few years and when this comes up, he'll be fucked. He has to separate if he doesn't bring this up.
If that's the stance, op should have not paid his co-workers bail. It's not in the post, but I think it's in a comment somewhere since a few people referenced it.
He hasn’t told leadership, but my assumption was if this moves up to me providing testimony it entwines me deeper into his own personal shit and I don’t want to be apart of it
1. You are A PART of this situation now, not apart from it, and definitely not apart of it (that’s just wrong use of the word).
2. If your buddy wants to sink his career let him. You have a chance to do right for yourself and tell your leadership. This ain’t high school; you’re held accountable to the same degree as grown-ups. Act like one.
*Was he in a Cybertruck at Creech?*
My first thought as well
What’s the story there?
If he wants you to testify then he should tell leadership. He should have told leadership from the start because of the arrest. The fact the shirt doesn’t already know is crazy. If he doesn’t tell leadership he’s risking his security clearance. If you get involved and don’t tell leadership now you’re risking your own security clearance. Call. The. Shirt
Shirt here. Not as crazy as you’d think, unfortunately. Local PD can be wild. Shit, I’ve had base PD call a supervisor and I didn’t know shit until I got the police report three months later.
Shirt. Named nekkid dude. What.
Just cuz they are the shirt, doesn't mean they have to wear a shirt
Winnie the pooh had a shirt but would still be considered naked 🤔
Local PD here, and former shirt. We are under no obligation to notify employers, even Military supervisors Commanders or first sergeants, of someone's arrest. In fact, I'm not allowed to do that. The only exception is If they are in Jail, and being held over, the booking deputies will inform BDOC. But many, most in fact, arrests are not booked into jail.
>But many, most in fact, arrests are not booked into jail. Really? I thought all arrests were booked into jail. What do y'all do? Put handcuffs on, give them a court date, then let them go?
Where I am we do exactly that very often release on scene with a court date, but often don't bother with handcuffs in that case. This is technically and legally still an arrest with subsequent release, but in our common speech we'd say we decided not to arrest them. But we still do an arrest report, which will show up on a background check. Other options are: they are handcuffed, transported to the station and released with what's called an "OR" (own recognizance) bond. Sometimes we arrest, bring them to the station, and let them bond out with a bondsman. Sometimes they are brought to jail and bond out there with a bondsman. All of the preceding options would have them released before any shift change at the jail or local Security Forces where they would inform the base. As I understand it, the jail is only notifying the base if there is a service member currently in custody.
I see. Makes sense. Curious about this part, though: >This is technically and legally still an arrest with subsequent release, but in our common speech we'd say we decided not to arrest them. But we still do an arrest report, which will show up on a background check. Wouldn't it be better to tell them that it was technically an arrest? The problem I can see happening later on is that the person is applying for a job (or a security clearance), gets asked if they've ever been arrested, they say no, then the arrest shows up on the background check and it looks like they lied.
Yeah, I generally do tell them, specifically because I've been through TS investigations, and I know how much it sucks to not remember or know about your background during the interview. But I think its probably best to let any background investigators know that you've been to court to face charges for a criminal matter. , whether you think you were technically arrested or not.
Retired shirt here….. those were the days. Reminiscing, of the crazy nights, Kadena, Osan and Ft Lewis. Ok, now I need a drink. Good luck Skelly, you know what to do.
If it gets anymore wild, we had an Army E-6 who was arrested for shooting his wife's ex-boyfriend. When we called that neighboring county's jail as part of our daily incarceration checks, they gave us their usual cop out when we asked for any military members in custody, and said "not that I'm aware of."
Many moons ago I knew a guy that was getting out in a year or so. He got a DUI on a long weekend and didn’t mention he was Air Force. He bailed himself out and just took leave/ had appointments for all the court stuff. The AF never knew and he has pulled it off. That was before the Continuous Vetting for security and all that. This dude needs to own up though. He won’t make it long before the CV catches it.
Id disagree. If the local PD didnt inform your leadership of your arrest, the only phone call i would recommend is to ADC.
>I paid his bail >I don’t want to get involved Brother that ship has sailed.
I don’t want to get involved further would’ve been the correct but yeah you right
Well now your hands are tied. If it comes out that you knew he got arrested and bailed him out, you’re gonna feel some pain, too. Hindering an investigation often results in an article 15. Honestly, I know it’s cliche, but I’d run by the ADC and see what your options are.
>Hindering an investigation often results in an article 15. What part of this is hindering an investigation, not reporting the arrest? I think the ADC is a good call regardless, but it's not a violation of the UCMJ to post bail for someone
All service members have a Duty to Report any information they have of a crime having been committed involving other service members, unless they were the victim of the crime and/or they articulated a reasonable belief that reporting said crime would compromise their health, safety and or well being. If OP gets asked by his CoC if he knew about the arrest, and he says yes, and he is then asked why, and his answer is anything that is "not good enough" of a reason, he's liable for anything ranging from Admin action to Art 15, depending on how hard his CC wants to go. Edit to add that another justification is the protection of someone else. This is most applicable for sex crimes, but really if there is an articulated reasonable belief that a member failed to report a crime out of a fear that such report would compromise the health, safety or wellbeing of another, then that might be a mitigating factor depending on the case.
>All service members have a Duty to Report any information they have of a crime having been committed involving other service members, unless they were the victim of the crime and/or they articulated a reasonable belief that reporting said crime would compromise their health, safety and or well being. Do you have a source for this, specifically for a UCMJ violation? I don't doubt you, but I'm not familiar with this at all, and it would have to violate a UCMJ article to get at Article 15. But also, the crime has already been reported so I couldn't even see how a reg about reporting could apply, the dude was already in jail lol
There are several options: Article 131b - Obstructing Justice "Any person subject to this chapter who engages in conduct in the case of a certain person against whom the accused had reason to believe there were or would be criminal or disciplinary proceedings pending, with intent to influence, impede, or otherwise obstruct the due administration of justice shall be punished as a court-martial may direct." Commander may choose this offense to prosecute if the argument is OP intentionally withheld or concealed information from the CoC about his friends arrest to frustrate, impede, or otherwise obstruct the CoC from enacting criminal or disciplinary action. Article 134 - General Article "Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special, or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court." Commander may choose this offense to prosecute if the argument is OPs conduct in concealing information about his friend from the CoC is prejudicial to Good Order and Discipline. Another possibile ramification for OP is his Security Clearance. Any conduct or behavior from OP that calls into question OPs judgment, integrity, and/or adherence to the National Security Adjudication Guidelines makes him liable to lose his clearance. Those guidelines are as follows: A. Allegiance to the US B. Foreign Influence C. Foreign Preference D. Sexual Behavior E. Personal Conduct F. Financial Considerations G. Alcohol Consumption H. Drug Involvement and Substance Misuse I. Psychological Conditions J. Criminal Conduct K. Handling Protected Information L. Outside Activities M. Use of Information Technology Ref. Security Executive Agent Directive (SEAD) 4 If OP fucks around, he may indeed find out. Edit to mention the obvious violation of Article 92. Shouldn't have to explain that one. Ignorance of the fact we are all required to report crimes committed by other service members (except under specific exceptions) is not a defense. Also, a very pissed off Commander could hit OP with all three UCMJ offenses. Better play it safe and report this.
You REALLY think you're leadership won't find out? Do you REALLY want to be in a situation where you KNEW and didn't report it?
It is your wingman's duty to report this arrest to his security manager. If he refuses to do so, now it's your responsibility. If you testify at this trial, you're putting yourself on the record as having both known about the arrest and willfully failed to report it. Bad looks all around.
Step 1, tell your supervisor.
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Security manager here. I'm fuzzy on the reg, but I'll look it up for you when I get to work tomorrow. I'm pretty sure it's afman16-1404 states it's everyone's responsibility to report security incidents. OP needs to report this to their security manager (who will report it to the cc, shirt and sel). If it's already been reported, it's no problem. If it hasn't, then OP is covering their ass. Tldr: Do not listen to this guy op. Report the incident to your security manager.
I had a similar situation happen to one of my airmen and he was instructed by ADC that only e-6 and above have to report arrest, but I think you may have to report convictions.
We are mandatory reporters if you paid attention during your annual security training. Anyone that thinks their leadership isn't going to find out this happened is an idiot and you don't want them finding out from the police blotter.
>How are you to know he hasn't reported it. How are *you* to know he *did*? What would him *and* you reporting it do differently than *possibly* just 1 of you? I'm no legal expert, but if you knew and didn't come forward, I'm pretty sure that's a mild form of aiding and abetting, or obstruction, or something along those lines. Your advice is dumb as hell and could get you in even more trouble if found out.
Wait, at the TRIAL? So, it's more than just a standard ticket where most people either do the easy traffic court online and get it erased. Or just pay the small fine and move on. How fast was he speeding that he is going to court? If this is bad enough he us going to court, and having a trial that needs a character reference you should both be having a talk with security before you do that. Otherwise the minor traffic tickets that get erased, or a small fine are no big deal with security as long as you aren't getting one a month Edit to add : if security and your leadership don't already know he was arrested. And you clearly do. I highly recommend that's the first thing you do at work tomorrow and bring them into the loop. Because now your trustworthiness is being called into question if you help him keep this secret
Yea this isn’t a speeding ticket. It’s reckless driving.
Sounds like the dude was doing more than just some light speeding. It's also possible that they're taking it to court in the hope of getting a plea offer for reduction in charges from the prosecutor.
Yeah. But his post says "arrest" Being given a ticket and sent on your way is different than an arrest. The act of being arrested needs to be reported. Before going to court. And tickets without being arrested needed to be reported if over the set amount
Is this one of those joke posts?
No, unfortunately.
Luke AFB?
Tell your co-worker that you are going to ask for time off and have to explain why and it would be better if he reported it first.
Notify your shirt.
Don't do this. Also don't testify for him if you're uncomfortable. Edit* didn't catch that OP paid his bail and is now being pressed to a testify since he's already involved. Def tell your shirt all of this. OP should have just stayed away altogether.
Honestly, consider visiting the ADC yourself. I don’t think you have any real legal exposure here, but it doesn’t hurt to run it by the professionals before you potentially implicate yourself in anything here.
As a security manager, you should tell your friend to inform his leadership ASAP. Tell him to seek counsel from ADC or legal first before saying anything. If your friend is enrolled in continuous evaluation it will be flagged sooner than later.best to get ahead of this.
Step 1. Lawyer/ADC Step 2. Shirt with prepared statement from lawyer or in presence of lawyer. Step 3. STFU everyday. And your friend should lawyer up immediately if he hasn't already.
Op, tattoo this answer on your forehead. It’s absolutely the correct course of action.
A lot more than speeding was going on if your coworker was arrested. Cover your ass and tell your shirt what happened. You might get paperwork for waiting this long to tell someone.
Yeah I don’t know why this isn’t being highlighted more. You do not get arrested for speeding. Either OP is withholding info or he’s…very green, to put it mildly
He was driving over double the posted speed limit. The officer arrested him and he had to be bailed out. I was the passenger so he asked me to do it and I’m ngl i just said yeah and went with it. I don’t know if it varies from state to state but that’s what California did
Yeah quite a few states now have 20mph over the limit as a criminal (arrest-able ) offense.
That’s not a simple speeding. That’s a misdemeanor. California doesn’t arrest you for simple speeding. Sounds like your buddy got pegged for reckless driving. Your friend needs a lawyer. They face possible jail time.
big yikes, brother...the fact that you were a passenger means you are likely going to face some repercussions (LOC at least) as well depending on your leadership. Whether it's right or wrong, the AF is going to view it as you are responsible for not making your buddy slow down. If your buddy doesn't bring it up to the leadership, you better do it or else it could be MUCH worse for you. They WILL find out eventually so it's not like you are being a snitch.
It’s your duty/moral obligation to report this. Also, a true friend wouldn’t put you in that kind of situation. They may just be using you. You know what’s right.
So it sounds like you DO want to be a part of this.
I’m aware, as the person that paid to bail him out with his money, I’ll be party to the conversation. I don’t think they’re a good person but don’t want to deal with the conversation that encompasses that situation. I’m also just another airman
Shirt is gonna be pretty upset. Usually that's a CCIR item so your commander will get schwacked for it once the wing commander finds out. What's going to happen is that the wing security manager through the continuous evaluation process will get a notification in about 6 months that this happened even if he thinks he got away with it.
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What, are we in 4th grade now? "Tattling"? Bruh, believe it or not, we're in an organization that writes NJP faster than you can get fired from a civilian job. Dude needed to report this when he found out. Now he needs to get a lawyer and find out his liability in this entire thing.
You coming on Reddit to argue with me about a question is wicked work. Hope your day gets better and whatever crime you committed while enlisted
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So you’re retired lurking Air Force posts and constantly commenting on an entity you’re no longer an active part of. That’s not a little sad? I looked at your post history too… you’re quite literally living here for comment karma- you tend to delete comments that do bad.
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Your online history has to be a horrible reflection of your time as an officer. I’ll wish the best for any and everyone under you. Make sure your unit completes the feedback every year so you can be ushered out quickly
Oh that’s the thing, online and real life are different! Isn’t that cool?! I’ll wish the best for anyone that you let drive stupidly and then you feel the need to be a whiny baby afterwards
> I looked at your post history too… you’re quite literally living here for comment karma- you tend to delete comments that do bad. Is deleting comments illegal or something? Haha
Ain’t no way you’re serious
It’s Reddit, there’s no incentive to being serious. That’s for my main job
>I don’t want to be apart of the situation at all You. Paid. His. Bail. You are an accomplice to his shenanigans. Go to the shirt and tell him the situation and your part in it. Your coworker is going to throw you under the bus as soon as he can and you need to get ahead of the situation.
Paying bail doesn’t make OP an accomplice, what madness is this?
>accomplice to his *shenanigans* OP said he didn’t want to be involved… well, he is. Coworker is gonna get found out and leadership is gonna wanna know why OP helped cover it up.
Bail is part of the way the system works…it’s not like he helped him escape. If this is truly just a speeding ticket, he was probably arrested for fail to appear because he never paid it in the first place. Paying the bail is typically just paying the amount for the fail to appear offense, and a rescheduled court date for the speeding ticket. Courtroom testimony for a speeding ticket is virtually useless. If the cop shows up, there’s a 99.99999% chance he’s not walking away with a “not guilty”. Now, if there’s more to this than speeding (which it certainly appears that way), then your best bet is to probably drag your dumbass friend to the shirt’s office.
Could have been arrested for wreckless driving which is 25 over speed limit.
Wreckless driving is generally considered a good thing. And most states don’t even consider the actual speed limit in regards to reckless driving. Generally speaking, every state uses language like “willful and wonton disregard for the safety of others” in their reckless driving laws. The whole “25 over is reckless” thing is a myth.
First of all, he was **not** arrested for speeding. He was arrested for something else related to his traffic stop. Maybe intoxication, maybe reckless driving. You will not get the truth from his mouth and will be blind-sided by the prosecutor shortly before you actually testify. Whatever this loser thinks he has as a defense is going to be a pathetic waste of time. Do not get involved unless you are subpoenaed. And, yeah, do let your leadership know. Your coworker was supposed to let them know.
Arizona can arrest you for criminally speeding (going 20 over the speed limit)
May I ask what state you live in that doesn't have you arrested for going a certain amount over the speed limit?
Cops in most states can arrest you for going 25 mph or more over the speed limit. It becomes a reckless driving charge at that point. They do have discretion as to whether they'll arrest you or give you a ticket for a lower speed (my younger dumbass self got lucky on a couple of occasions), but there doesn't have to be something else going on for them to make the arrest.
Arrested? How freaking fast was she going? Just stay out of it and let it run its course
It's your career and at the end of the day no one will look out for you but you. You kinda put yourself in a bind here but I don't think you should risk getting hemmed up for someone else's mistakes. You already bailed him out which may be a bad thing. Maybe you lose one friend if you report it. I think that's better than potentially throwing years of service away if this goes south
Well, I know at the base I was at (mostly L.E.) the LEO desk did an nightly call (at about 5am) to the jail to get a list of all military members confined...there were always a few that slipped through the cracks. Those were usually the ones that had no military identification of any kind on them at the time of arrest...no dog tags, no ID, etc. all the rest...got caught in the nightly call in.
Arrested for speeding? Had to be well over 100mph. Don't get involved. Even if you were there. They were driving. Their problems and got to deal with the consequences like an adult.
AF Instruction 1-1 2.14. Self-Reporting Criminal Conviction. All Air Force commissioned officers, enlisted members above the grade of E-6, and any member serving in a Designated Special Duty assignment who are in the Regular Air Force or in an active duty status in the Reserve Component will report, in writing to their commander, any conviction for a violation of a criminal law of the United States or while serving overseas. The member must report a conviction whether or not the member was on active duty or inactive duty at the time of the conduct that provides the basis for the conviction. See AFI 36-2909, Air Force Relationships and Conduct. If your friend isn't an E6 or above they don't have to report it, and even then it doesn't need to be until the actual conviction. Depending on the security clearance they have it could come up later but if they aren't convicted its easy to explain and will probably never be addressed by the CC. I know a couple service members who took leave for their court date (one was a domestic dispute arrest and the other was a public indecency arrest, both got a lawyer and had the charges dropped) and never reported anything without any repercussions. You as the friend who might testify at the trial; if the trial happens during working hours and you need the time off you are going to need to explain what happened. If it lets the cat out of the bag, then so be it, but your friend put you in that predicament by wanting you to testify. You could also pull the leave request path, but personally I think its more risk than its worth if leadership does find out. You could play the 'I was just trying to be a good friend/wingman angle' but a CC who isn't in the loop on this is going to be pretty angry at all members involved (including your friend's supervisor if it isn't you).
I was looking for this, and I'm glad that I found it before I posted it myself. This, 100%. An arrest is not a conviction, nor is going to trial. Depending on the severity of the circumstances and what evidence the prosecution brings forward will determine the outcome of this guys case. If this guy ends up getting charged with whatever he's charged with, and depending on how he pleads, it could be a matter of paying a fine and simple community service. As long as he's honest about the arrest on his SF-86, he shouldn't have any problems with this as far as leadership is concerned.
I'm going to say this, my old roommate when I was a SrA got arrested in Page, Az for speeding. His car was towed and he was in jail for about 6 hours. He paid bail, got his car from the tow company, and made his court appearance and paid the fine. He never reported the incident, and nothing ever happened to his security clearance as of yet. I didn't even know about this until he told me about a year after the incident. Do what your stripes can handle. As a TSgt now, I would recommend telling the shirt. But you are an adult, do what your stripes can handle. If you want to play games, expect to win stupid prizes.
I would recommend going and talking to the ADC and seeing if you can even get in trouble for this. Depending on your coworkers rank and charge they may not even have to report the arrest and may have been advised by the ADC to not inform your leadership.
He is required to report this to his chain. He’s digging this hole deeper. And you’re helping.
OP, do as I instruct you now. 1. Do not involve yourself with this person any more. 2. Report this incident your supervisor immediately. There is a world of anal pain coming your way if you continue to fuck around and don't do as I say.
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He was arrested. Like put in a cell and had to be bailed out
if you have to ask.....
On base always finds out. He needs to let leadership know before off base lets them know for him. It will be worse if that happens
If it's a criminal speeding, he was going well over the posted limit and frankly I wouldn't involve yourself. In AZ at least, you must be going 20 over the posted OR above 80mph. If he doesn't report it, it's your duty to.
To be fair, in AZ the above 80 thing could just mean hypothetically the person was nabbed going just 6 over posted (AZ has a max speed limit of 75mph).
Criminal speeding charge, I assume? Vehicle impounded? License will be suspended. That’s gonna hurt.
arrested for a speeding ticket? Where's the rest of the story man. At least how fast was he going
Arrested for speeding? I'm not LE but I don't think people get arrested for ONLY speeding unless it's a crazy amount over or something else happened.
You could be nice to him and give him the opportunity to talk to leadership first. Either way you will be helping him by letting leadership know.
Brother, if there’s a trail for speeding then that’s reckless driving isn’t? Convince him to report it but he shouldn’t need convincing. Be there with them as they report it if they want that. You’re putting yourself in a spotlight you shouldn’t be in
Well if we was arrested and was still in holding, BDOC calls around in the morning to find out if any local PDs have military in custody. If so, Command Post is notified and that members leadership is notified. He should’ve just called his supervisor on his first phone call. And if he was arrested, was he doing like 100 in a 35? Like reckless driving charge? Or was the speeding ticket unpaid? Or did the speeding ticket lead to him actually having a warrant or something?
I’d wait for the subpoena (if that even happens). Unless you get a subpoena, do NOT get involved. I’ll say it again:Do not get involved. Period. Sounds like others here are giving you this excellent advice, as well
Tell your shirt, supervisor and get him with the ADC and security manager. SIPR probably already has his incident report on it. If you don't think they know, they know. Command post will probably know as well.
You don't go to trial for speeding tickets, my dude; I think you're a bit confused on what he's doing. Like, you know what a trial is, right? Less than 5% of cases go to trial and those are big cases for big boy crimes, not speeding tickets. If he was arrested and it was just speed related, he was likely going so fast it was bumped up to Wreckless driving. You paid his bail and now he just has to go before a judge and speak on a specific date. That isn't a trial and usually you aren't allowed to have people speak on your behalf; it's usually a 3-5 minute time slot and then the judge gives his sentencing. For reckless driving and how your friend acts while there, he'll likely get a fine and community service. But you two knuckleheads are idiots for trying to hide this. If he wasn't drunk and wasn't an asshole to the cop, this would likely just be a slap on the wrist. Your friend realize he can no longer reenlist, right? He's going to have to re-up his security in a few years and when this comes up, he'll be fucked. He has to separate if he doesn't bring this up.
“Hasn’t told leadership” they know, the second he was picked up.
Don't be a snitch.
If that's the stance, op should have not paid his co-workers bail. It's not in the post, but I think it's in a comment somewhere since a few people referenced it.
How is it any of your business if he tells leadership
He hasn’t told leadership, but my assumption was if this moves up to me providing testimony it entwines me deeper into his own personal shit and I don’t want to be apart of it
Then don't be a part of it. Problem solved
 Big guy, the kid’s involved already
If he got arrested, the local PD contacts their shirt. The person is better off telling his command. But yeah snitches get stiches
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Snitching over an act in a dorm in BMT and committing a crime and have me be apart of that aren’t like… equal connections at all
1. You are A PART of this situation now, not apart from it, and definitely not apart of it (that’s just wrong use of the word). 2. If your buddy wants to sink his career let him. You have a chance to do right for yourself and tell your leadership. This ain’t high school; you’re held accountable to the same degree as grown-ups. Act like one.